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Speaker 1: Music Saved Me.

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Speaker 2: I think that being vulnerable is a very important part

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Speaker 2: of an artist's job. If you're sending, if you're writing

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Speaker 2: songs about your life, even you know, like be honest,

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Speaker 2: Be as honest as you can, because deep down you

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Speaker 2: know you're human. Everybody's human on this on this earth,

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Speaker 2: and somebody's gonna feel the exact same way if you're

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Speaker 2: just honest with yourself.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lynn Hoffman, the host of the Music Saved Me podcast,

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Speaker 1: the podcast that goes behind the scenes with musicians and

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Speaker 1: entertainers and explores the healing power of music.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: If you like this podcast, thank you, and please follow

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Speaker 1: our companion podcast hosted by the incredible buzz Night, called

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Speaker 1: Taken a Walk, which is available wherever you get your

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Speaker 1: podcasts now. Like most celebrities from the days of MTV,

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Speaker 1: my next guest is a multi platinum selling rock star

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Speaker 1: and former frontman who is no stranger to the temptations

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Speaker 1: of addiction. After a decade of fighting for his own survival,

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Speaker 1: Austin Winkler, formerly of the band Hinder, has done the

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Speaker 1: hard work of finding his footing and rekindling his lost

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Speaker 1: love of music. Can you believe lost Love? I can't

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Speaker 1: even believe I'm saying that. With a brand new musical

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Speaker 1: entity he created called The Founder, which symbolizes his artistic rebirth.

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Speaker 1: He also has a brand new six track EP called

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Speaker 1: Walking Dead, which we'll talk about, and eagerness to use

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Speaker 1: his new found freedom to help others who are working

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Speaker 1: through those same demons by letting them all know that

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Speaker 1: they are not alone in their fight. Just the perfect

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Speaker 1: guest for Music Saved Me, Austin John Winkler. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. It is so good to see you and

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Speaker 1: have you here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Lean and it's good to be it.

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Speaker 1: Well, first, let's just talk a little bit about this

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Speaker 1: new entity, the Founder. It's a sanctuary for where you're

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Speaker 1: creating all of your new musical creations. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about that.

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Speaker 2: And when that started, Yeah, I wanted to just get

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Speaker 2: in and I just have this one song, it's actually

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Speaker 2: the title track Walking Dead, and I was just like,

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Speaker 2: all right, I'm just gonna do one song and just

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Speaker 2: do a single, and it kind of it really turned

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Speaker 2: out like know to me, really raw, a lot more

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Speaker 2: raw than than kind of my polished stuff that I've

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Speaker 2: done in the past. And and the lyrics are a

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Speaker 2: little more raw, and I was like, Okay, well I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna do another one. I'm gonna do another one. And

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Speaker 2: so I just I kept on recording him, and it

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Speaker 2: just I saw this body of work, and I saw

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Speaker 2: this whole kind of new approach to to recording, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I didn't want to ever put out anything

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Speaker 2: again that I wasn't going to be in full control of.

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Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how the Founder Was was born,

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Speaker 2: is that I I was able to put my whole

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Speaker 2: heart into something again, you know, for the first time

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Speaker 2: in a while. And I told myself, if I ever

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Speaker 2: do that again, I'm going to make sure that I'm

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Speaker 2: only putting in all the creative into it. So can

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Speaker 2: can you.

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Speaker 1: Share that moment? Was that? Was there a moment like

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Speaker 1: that epiphany that you realize that music was going to

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Speaker 1: be this this lifeline during your darkest times considering your

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Speaker 1: past with music.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, to be honest, that means we have

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Speaker 2: to go back even further to like to twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: And I had just I was I was on dialysis

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Speaker 2: because my liver and kidney had failed due to a

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Speaker 2: excess of years of partying. I was. I was what

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Speaker 2: you'd call a disposal. I would whatever I can get

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Speaker 2: my hands done. I was going to do. And I

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Speaker 2: was like nine months on dialysis, and I was strumming

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Speaker 2: the guitar and I was just I hadn't I hadn't

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Speaker 2: been in love with music for a while, just just

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Speaker 2: because I've been through so much in this industry. And

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Speaker 2: I started writing a song called super Jaded, and I

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Speaker 2: like hit a C chord on a chorus, And that

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Speaker 2: was the moment, at least for me, that I fell

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Speaker 2: back in love with music. I after I had written

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Speaker 2: that song and heard it back, like I cried in

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Speaker 2: my hotel room at like two am, just like I

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Speaker 2: could feel myself just like my body releasing and from

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Speaker 2: this music healing vibration, like me hearing myself going, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I think I still got this thing in

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Speaker 2: me And yeah, that's that. That just like started like

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Speaker 2: a complete new love for music and for me, going,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm I'm I may give this thing

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Speaker 2: another go.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you have spoken very openly as you

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Speaker 1: are now about your battle with the addiction and the

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Speaker 1: dialysis was you know, so young. It just it blew

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Speaker 1: me way that you were able to. I mean that

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Speaker 1: truly is a low moment. Yeah, for someone sitting there

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Speaker 1: thinking about their life. I mean it's right in the

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Speaker 1: palm of your hands. Yeah, to do with it's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 2: What thank you?

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Speaker 1: How did those experiences change your perspective on life and music?

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Speaker 2: Man, I'll tell you, like, I'm still processing it. It's

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Speaker 2: still something that was just so crazy. It's like somebody

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Speaker 2: picked me up and shook me and then set me

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Speaker 2: back down. And I still I'm still processing it, Like

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Speaker 2: even this is this is me processing it. Because as

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Speaker 2: soon as I found out that what happens, I was

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Speaker 2: I was alloted. The doctor said, okay, you know what,

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Speaker 2: We're going to take you off the Alisis for two weeks,

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Speaker 2: and my brain didn't even think about it. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I gotta go record this song. So he took me

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Speaker 2: off the Alisis for two weeks. I flew to Nashville.

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Speaker 2: We recorded Super Jaded in this like tiny shed of

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Speaker 2: my guitar players now is crazy as that sounds. And

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Speaker 2: then I go back. I fly back. It's affecting him

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Speaker 2: to get back on dialysis. And he was like, you

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Speaker 2: know what, We're good. We're gonna we're gonna keep you

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Speaker 2: off of it for two months or three months or

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Speaker 2: whatever it was. And I was like, okay, crazy, So

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Speaker 2: I haven't even still had time to process all of

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Speaker 2: that crazy stuff. But I mean, I will tell you

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Speaker 2: what it's like to walk in to dialysis, like a

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Speaker 2: dialysis center at five am, four days a week, five

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Speaker 2: hours at a time, and I'm you're thirty seven years

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Speaker 2: old at the time, thirty eight years or sold the time,

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Speaker 2: and I'm everybody else is seventy and the only way

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Speaker 2: I'm the youngest guy in there, and everybody's just in there,

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Speaker 2: just kind of sitting like this, you know. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, is this I had accepted it. I'd accepted

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Speaker 2: this is my life now, I guess. But I was

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Speaker 2: diligent and what the doctors told me to do. And

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Speaker 2: whenever he said two weeks off, I my book, my

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Speaker 2: flight the next day and I was out and hit

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Speaker 2: the ground. Role.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is just so powerful what you just said.

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Speaker 1: I mean, literally, you're cleaning your blood, which is what

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Speaker 1: we need to live the rest of our lives. And

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Speaker 1: you got that one moment of clarity where maybe you

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Speaker 1: could turn this around. So do you think music had

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Speaker 1: an impact as well in your healing. When you got

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Speaker 1: to performing that after you left for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean it's it's more therapy now

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Speaker 2: than it's ever been, even when I first started. I

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Speaker 2: feel much more connected to what I'm putting out now,

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Speaker 2: And not that I wasn't connected to it. I was

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Speaker 2: just I was literally a different person than I mean

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Speaker 2: coming out at twenty four years old. I was that

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Speaker 2: party guy. I was everything on those records, like that's

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Speaker 2: who I was at the time, and I've always been

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Speaker 2: attached to it.

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Speaker 1: It was like a machine, it was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm curious about Music Cares and in other support

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Speaker 1: systems that sort of played a role in your recovery.

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Speaker 1: How did they work and how important do you think

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Speaker 1: it is for artists, especially artists to have access to

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Speaker 1: these types of resources.

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Speaker 2: And Music Cares has done so much for me whenever

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Speaker 2: I was really in need of a lot of help

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Speaker 2: and they took me in, they took care of like

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Speaker 2: my entire give me a scholarship for my rehab ninety days.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they really take care of their own and

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Speaker 2: I'd love to do anything if they ever have anything

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Speaker 2: to do, I'd love to volunteer my time to help

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Speaker 2: them out. I mean they truly help, really help people out.

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Speaker 1: How did you find out about them?

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Speaker 2: My therapists at the time was connected to them in

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Speaker 2: Malibu and she hooked me up with them.

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Speaker 1: Wow, there has to be I mean, being in this

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Speaker 1: industry as long as you have and I have on

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Speaker 1: on my role, it's amazing how little there is put

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Speaker 1: out for artists, you know, when they're the ones entertaining

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Speaker 1: the masses who need it so badly. They're providing this therapy,

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Speaker 1: but they don't have any access to it or understanding

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Speaker 1: that it's even out there for them.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll tell you this, Like my therapist now,

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Speaker 2: who does amazing work, she's, uh, she's started to have

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Speaker 2: to go to like Coachella and these big festivals and

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Speaker 2: she'll have a tent and she's like, well, these artists,

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Speaker 2: these artists are too big, they're they're they're they're not

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Speaker 2: going to have any time. And she is booked solid.

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Speaker 2: Like she'll go in and she'll be booked from the

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Speaker 2: time she gets there. Because these because people nowadays, I

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Speaker 2: mean they're actually they are starting to wake up and

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Speaker 2: realize that, hey, this business is designed to isolate you,

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Speaker 2: like no matter the bigger you get, the smaller your

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Speaker 2: world kits. And she's providing safe space for big artists

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Speaker 2: to go in and be like, you know what, this

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Speaker 2: is what I'm dealing with on the road, and this

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Speaker 2: is what I can't deal with and stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: and it's really quite remarkable to see that. I love

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Speaker 2: seeing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Was there a specific song or like

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Speaker 1: a moment that you felt that music truly saved you?

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Speaker 2: You know, like I said, I think it was that

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Speaker 2: super jaded song. I mean when I say save, I

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Speaker 2: mean like music saves me in general. Right when I

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Speaker 2: say save, I mean that made me fall in love

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Speaker 2: with music again, meaning that I needed that to fall

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Speaker 2: back in line with something that saved my whole life.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean, before I even started hinder at nineteen,

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Speaker 2: I was getting arrested and I was like I was,

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Speaker 2: I was a train wreck of a nineteen year old kid.

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Speaker 2: And a couple of weeks later I started Hindering, I

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Speaker 2: got on line. You know, I felt like I found

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Speaker 2: my calling of stick to in music. Yeah you're or

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Speaker 2: you're going to get off track. And that's what happened,

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Speaker 2: you know, whenever I let whenever I ended up leaving

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Speaker 2: the band in twenty thirteen is that I didn't have

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Speaker 2: that main thing is my support anymore, I felt and

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Speaker 2: I got off the rails man, like seven years of

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Speaker 2: some pretty dark stuff that I ended up getting into.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's true you don't

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Speaker 1: even realize you know, how vulnerable you are and how

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Speaker 1: much you give that you don't check yourself like it

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Speaker 1: brings meaning to the word, you know, oxygen mask on

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Speaker 1: you first and then you can help others. But right

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Speaker 1: sometimes you.

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Speaker 2: So much to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how does vulnerability play into your songwriting and help

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Speaker 1: you with your process with healing or with pain?

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Speaker 2: Man, It's it's something that that I feel like I'm getting,

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Speaker 2: I mean even more, I'm getting even more personal, I

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Speaker 2: feel like with especially with this founder stuff, because I

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Speaker 2: think that being vulnerable is a very important part of

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Speaker 2: an artist's job. If you're sending, if you're writing songs

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Speaker 2: about your life, even you know, like be honest, be

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Speaker 2: as honest as you can, because deep down you know

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Speaker 2: you're human. Everybody's human on this on this earth, and

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Speaker 2: somebody's going to feel the exact same way. If you're

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Speaker 2: just honest with yourself. I mean, look at lips of

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Speaker 2: an Angel. To be honest, like that that happened to me,

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Speaker 2: and I wrote it the next day, like and it

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Speaker 2: was just fifteen twenty minutes, but it was something so

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Speaker 2: true and very vulnerable. I mean it ended up actually

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Speaker 2: causing me a lot of files with my personal life.

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Speaker 1: But how crazy is that? You know something, So.

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Speaker 2: I've been vulnerable since day one, you know.

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Speaker 1: Just trying to figure out how to work it so

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Speaker 1: that you're protected. You know. It's funny. I was reading

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Speaker 1: after stepping away from Hinder that you had mentioned this.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe this. I said it in the open

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Speaker 1: that you you sort of fell out of love with music,

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Speaker 1: which is incredible. So you must have really been really

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Speaker 1: in a tough spot. What helped you rekindle that passion?

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Speaker 1: I think the quote was something like I learned how

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Speaker 1: to be from MTV but then it almost that almost

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Speaker 1: ruined you.

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Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, that was that was something that I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's I'm kind of half kidding but kind of not.

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Speaker 2: Like I loved watching MTV as a kid, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a part of that world. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I read the dirt right before I went out on

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Speaker 2: tour like it was. It was all kind of playing

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Speaker 2: out exactly there, I think, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And I went down all the steps so you know,

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Speaker 2: I married the girl in the music video, like I

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Speaker 2: did every thing you shouldn't do. I mean, as wrong,

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Speaker 2: as as crazy as that sounds like, that's kind of

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Speaker 2: how I feel like that in TV raised me kind

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Speaker 2: of thing, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but how like it's amazing to me that you

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Speaker 1: even went back well to begin with. But but in

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Speaker 1: twenty three though, you released Lips of an Angel again

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Speaker 1: as a duet and there was like three million downloads

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Speaker 1: and you had been off the scene for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: That must have been an incredible feeling to know that

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Speaker 1: your fans are still out there craving for more.

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Speaker 2: No, that's that was. That was a surreal experience. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't believe that I was back in the booth

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Speaker 2: with the producer Brian House, who did the first one,

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Speaker 2: and it was you know, Shalns did an amazing job,

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Speaker 2: and it was it was surreal. It's it's it's amazing

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Speaker 2: to know that there's still people out there that are

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Speaker 2: digging the music.

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Speaker 1: Has your approach changed it all? In terms of how

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Speaker 1: you write songs since you're entered recovery.

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Speaker 2: No, like I said, it's like with this founder stuff,

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Speaker 2: it's just a little more raw and you know it's

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Speaker 2: it's very personal. It's it hasn't changed, like I said.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been since day one, like I've I've

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Speaker 2: laid it out there as as clear as day, as

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Speaker 2: long as I as long as I've been writing songs.

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Speaker 1: How important is it for you to help others who

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Speaker 1: are challenged?

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Speaker 2: Man? I read every single comment uh that that people

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Speaker 2: write on songs that I'm a part of, and it's

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Speaker 2: very important to me because I know I've been on

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Speaker 2: the other side of that, and I still I'm always

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Speaker 2: on the other side of that. Like music, music helps

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Speaker 2: me all the time daily. And to be able to

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Speaker 2: write something that connects with somebody who is going through

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Speaker 2: the same thing as you, and to be able to

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Speaker 2: go on stage and sing that and then sing it

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Speaker 2: back to you is an indescribable feeling. Like that is

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Speaker 2: more rewarding than any amount of numbers in a bank

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Speaker 2: account or any anything I can own. Like that is

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Speaker 2: something I share with the fans, and that is something

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Speaker 2: that is sacred to me.

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Speaker 1: It's so special that you do that and also that

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Speaker 1: you care enough that you want to do that through

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Speaker 1: your music to help others, and is it's a therapy

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Speaker 1: for everyone involved. Really it lifts everybody up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Like you go to the show and it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's like a little church or whatever for people who

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Speaker 2: are going through heavy shit. Like that's what that's what

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. How do you think that the music industry?

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Speaker 1: I know we talked about this earlier in terms of

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Speaker 1: charitable organizations that are out there, but what do you

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Speaker 1: think that the music industry as a whole could do

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Speaker 1: to better support its artists. I mean, we're in a

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Speaker 1: whole new world. It's a lot different than before where

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Speaker 1: we were just apples and oranges represented by agencies, and

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Speaker 1: now it's really you know, you can pick and choose

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Speaker 1: who you want to represent you, what message you want

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Speaker 1: to put out there.

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Speaker 2: That's it for sure. I Mean my advice that I

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Speaker 2: would even tell my younger self would be like, dude,

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Speaker 2: it's it's okay to say no, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to do every single thing that gets

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Speaker 2: thrown into your lap. I mean that that drains you.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what kind of line of work you're

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Speaker 2: in if you're just saying yes to everything, especially if

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Speaker 2: you're doing something you love and it starts to get

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Speaker 2: tarnished with with so much that they pile on your plate.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the bigger you get, the busier you get.

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Speaker 2: And I mean I would, I would tell my younger

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Speaker 2: I tell my younger self to be like dude, say

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Speaker 2: no to once in a while, like get some rest,

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Speaker 2: like like it's important for you to take care of

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Speaker 2: you before you can take care of you know, the

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Speaker 2: person on stage. So I mean, I think, like I said,

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Speaker 2: them having you know, therapy tints instead of you know,

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Speaker 2: schwag tints. I think we'll play, will go a long

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Speaker 2: way and keep keep big artists you know or small waters,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter who it is, keep them in line

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Speaker 2: and keep them grounded from the small success you know

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Speaker 2: that we have had. It was sking crazy out there.

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Speaker 2: It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: I remember. I mean I was working actually at a

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Speaker 1: radio station not long before your first real big hit

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Speaker 1: song came on about twenty years ago up in Boston,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember you were on heavy rotation. Lips

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Speaker 1: of an Angel was just a smash, but you had

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Speaker 1: a lot of other songs as well. You were, you know,

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Speaker 1: rising up, and just as I was leaving town heading

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Speaker 1: to New York, and it was exciting to see that

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Speaker 1: you've been able to really turn this whole thing around,

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Speaker 1: because it really is inspiring, and that you're willing to

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Speaker 1: put yourself out there for your fans, as vulnerable as

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Speaker 1: you are, to show them that even people like yourself

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Speaker 1: has issues that you have to work through. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know, the biggest thing for me is when people

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Speaker 1: who rise to the big levels have such a responsibility,

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Speaker 1: and I always felt like you should never squander that

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Speaker 1: responsibility to help others when you have forged your own

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Speaker 1: path like that, because there's so many who don't know how.

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Speaker 2: Right right, No, it's it's definitely you know, and you

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Speaker 2: don't I mean, you don't realize the responsibility you have obviously,

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Speaker 2: I I you know, it was hard for me to

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Speaker 2: see that until I was out of.

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Speaker 1: How can you honestly, when you've got the machine behind

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Speaker 1: you like that, You're like, what stage am I? What

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Speaker 1: town am I at?

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Speaker 2: You're definitely somewhat of a robot in some sense. Is

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Speaker 2: the arrows pointing you. You're just you're following a path

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Speaker 2: and you don't even know you're just following the person

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Speaker 2: to the stage, or you're following the person to the

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Speaker 2: radio station or the hotel or whatever. Like you're just

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Speaker 2: you're you're an autopilot sometimes and it's really really good

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Speaker 2: to not do that. And if you can do some

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Speaker 2: things to break that up, that would be great.

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Speaker 1: What would you like your legacy to be, not just

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Speaker 1: as a musician, but as someone who's overcome significant personal challenges.

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Speaker 2: Just to be honest, be just somebody that that fights

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Speaker 2: for what he loves, Like I love music again, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I have days where I'm like, am I

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Speaker 2: still so good? Or is this is this worthy of

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Speaker 2: of of going out and touring and stuff like that?

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Speaker 2: And it's you know, I think it's just it's going

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Speaker 2: to be this legacy or whatever, just somebody that obviously

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Speaker 2: you loved music and wanted to share his music with

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Speaker 2: the world and wanted to connect with people. Because this

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Speaker 2: this rock or whatever that we're spinning on there or

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Speaker 2: is insanely malicious. I mean, it can it can be

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Speaker 2: a beautiful, beautiful place, and it can be so malicious.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to be known from maybe taking

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Speaker 2: time whatever. I come to this city and it just

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Speaker 2: kind of pushes everything. Everything's on pause for a minute

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Speaker 2: and you can sit and scream your head up off

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Speaker 2: to rock and roll songs.

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Speaker 1: I love it, and I love your videos especially, they're

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Speaker 1: really great. Austin John Winkler. Congratulations on getting to where

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Speaker 1: you are in life and your successes. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: sharing them with us on music. Save me and good

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Speaker 1: luck and everything that you do in the future, and

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Speaker 1: please come back and see us again when you have

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Speaker 1: your next EP or I dare I say album, but

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Speaker 1: everything's coming back so you never know.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much then,