WEBVTT - Kerry Haigh on PGA Championship Setup 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:06.359 Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:08.920 episode is brought to you by our friends over at 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.400 b dratty. I know it's the middle of the suburb, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.960 but fall is not that far away, and it might 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.480 be time to load up on some of your favorite 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:21.400 fall accessories. I think the thing I'm wearing right now, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.760 I'm recording this in my basement, which gets very cold. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.760 I'm wearing the Russell Kru neck sweatshirt made by b dratty. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:30.960 It is I have two of these. They come in 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.120 one color gray, but I have two of them. I 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.040 like it so much. I would highly recommend that getting 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.120 that and getting it now before you know, this is 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.000 something that tends to run out of stock when the 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.440 weather gets cooler, so stock up now. And the reason 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.360 to do it now is the Brotherhood sale is going 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.960 on on bedratty dot com. You could use the code 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:58.560 Brotherhood thirty and you'll get thirty percent off just about 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.160 everything on that website. So go to bedreddy dot com 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.639 use the code Brotherhood thirty and you'll get thirty percent 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.679 off just about everything on that website. Today's episode, I 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:15.760 am joined by the PGA's Chief Championships officer Carrie Haig. Obviously, 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:20.400 he is renowned for his setups at the PGA Championship, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:25.000 the KPMG Women's Championship, PGA Championship, as well as the 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.160 Ryder Cup. So I talked to Carrie in detail about 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.720 our first major, which is no more than ten days 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.319 away at this point. It is going to be the 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.240 PGA Championship at Harding Park in San Francisco. So we 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.240 talk in detail about Hardigg Parks and setting up a 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.120 major championship against the world's best players. Without further ado, 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.760 here is Carrie Haig. I miss the green for example, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.279 I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.480 I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.840 a frid Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg fridaygg 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.040 Frida egg ridegg Brighte egg Lie, I'm about ready to. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:02.800 Run off of the. 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.480 So I I read you were a good player grown up, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.440 you're a scratch golfer. Was there a moment that killed 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.880 any illusions you had of playing golf as a professional 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.240 and you know put you into the uh you know 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.919 you then pursued it golf as a profession, not a professional. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:49.120 Uh. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.240 Yeah, as I said, I was a decent amateur player, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:57.480 but I played junior golf in England. But I loved 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.880 other sports as well, So I played soccer, rugby, cricket, basketball, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.880 and I loved those team sports. So in truth, I didn't, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.560 you know, it's not like here way you'll literally give 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:13.120 your whole life to a single sport. So then I 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.119 got to I played in a couple of national events 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.839 and saw really how good, you know, the great players are. 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.000 I love the game, totally, absolutely loved the game and 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.080 wanted to sort of work with the game. And what 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.079 better opportunity than to end up ultimately doing what I'm 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:33.919 doing with the rules of the golf. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.600 Course setup and overseeing all of that championship. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.120 Yeah, let's let's talk about that. Obviously, the big news 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.760 we were going to be the first major championship of 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:48.200 the year, first major championship. Back, is there? Do you 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.400 feel any pressure with being the first major in this 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.600 post corona, you know, the coronavirus world, not post coronavirus world. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.000 I wouldn't say necessarily pressure to be the first. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:07.280 Obviously, we're excited that major championship golf is going to 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.200 actually happen and the fact that we are the first 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.880 this calendar year is nice, but certainly by no means 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.200 I think does it bring extra pressure in that regard. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.960 I think we all have the continuing concern about the virus, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.240 and you know, still what's happening today and every day 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.479 it's something new that happens. So those concerns for people 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:37.200 and the community from day one when the virus started 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.360 in March, has been priority number one. And the fact 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.839 that we're able to host a major championship at Harding Park, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.800 which we've looked forward to for many years, is exciting 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.600 in itself, even though there won't be any spectators. 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.000 Talk about setting up obviously your renowned for your setup 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:02.280 at the PGA, What are some of the maybe advantages 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.040 or drawbacks are setting up without fans versus setting up 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:06.920 with fans. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:08.880 I've been thinking about that. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.760 Actually, what I'll be doing the next two weeks is 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.040 in many ways exactly the same as I do for 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:16.480 every other championship. 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.800 That that's not going to change. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:23.280 In terms of trying to, you know, bring out a fair, challenging, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.520 interesting yet exciting golf course for the best players in 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.880 the world. And although you know all that part of 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.200 the Championship remain one hundred percent the same as it's 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:38.159 always been. The biggest difference is what would be going 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.920 on or not going on outside of the ropes and 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.480 sort of how that affects the sort of play inside 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.320 the ropes and the visual. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:50.760 What is seen by you know, the worldwide viewers inside 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.159 the ropes on the telecast. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.200 But in terms of, you know, how we set it up, 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.520 we'll look at all the same things we always do 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.719 in terms of, you know, what the weather's going to 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.279 be like, I can you know, hopefully get the golf 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.640 course into the condition that will fairly test the best 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.480 players in the world and make them think and hopefully 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.120 bring out the great excitement that we like to see 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:14.360 at a PGA Championship. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.520 Yeah, when you signed Harding Park On, obviously the PGA 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.039 was still an August major, and then you were it 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.080 was going to be this May, and now you're back 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.240 in August. How does the course play differently in August 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.560 versus that May May date that it was originally planned for. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:35.960 Yeah, that too has been interesting. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.960 As you say, we've gone from August when we signed it, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.120 to May two years ago and then back to August. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.479 The original Probably the original week that we could have 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:48.560 been on or would. 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.160 Have been on. But there's a lot of things have 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:51.120 happened in between. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.920 Golf course wise. One of the fortunate things in that 0:06:55.960 --> 0:07:01.200 regard is the San Francisco's climate is so generally temperate 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:06.479 that it's not temperature wise, conditioning wise should not be 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:11.640 that much different in May than August. Obviously, agronomically, we 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.800 did what we had put on hold and we're not 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.440 going to do in the spring with the May date. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.320 Once we postponed and put it to August, we started 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:26.720 to redo some of the the agonomic practices in the 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.440 spring when it was closed so that it can get 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:31.560 through the summertime. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:33.840 And that's been interesting. 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.560 You know, the golf course was closed for five or 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.440 six weeks immediately after the virus hit, and then it 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.400 was opened and was full of play from dawn till dusk, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.920 and now the past two weeks prior to the start 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.480 of the championship. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.120 It will be closed again. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.960 So we've sort of gone through no play and it 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.880 was in great condition in the spring and then you know, 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.600 full t sheet for ten eleven weeks and now well 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.400 eight a nine weeks should I say, And now you 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.760 know getting it back to Christine condition for next week. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.080 So we were a little less daylight. We had to 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.080 adjust the starting times fifteen twenty minutes or so because 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.400 of the less daylight. But we're still hopeful it will 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.320 play as we hoped it would play. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:23.840 And obviously, just like. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.600 Every championship, with dependent on what the weather does, if 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:32.360 the wind blows or not, or you know, well in fact, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:33.800 how the golf course plays. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:39.200 Yeah, with that agronomic lead up, they were talking about 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.720 how early are you starting to you know, how long 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.560 of a process is that it is a year eighteen 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.480 months that you're planning agronomic events, whether it's you know, 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.480 punching greens or doing different adjustments to the golf course 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.200 in the lead up to a traditional Obviously this is 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.319 not a normal situation. But in a normal situation, an 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.480 ideal situation, what does that lead up process look like. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:09.520 Well, that's a great question. 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.800 I think in this case, it's probably been about two 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.600 years that we started to work. I started to work 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:21.240 with the you know, the superintendent at Harding Park. You know, 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.120 they actually had three people in charge, Kevin Tan and 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:29.800 al Mar and Jeffrey sort of combine as a team 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:37.719 and we had our original concert. What we did put 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.400 into place was we wanted to adjust the fairways to 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.040 bring into play some of the challenges of the golf course, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.320 so that is the bunkers and some of the penalty 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.320 areas and bring the fairways a little closer or into 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.640 both of those, which meant adjusting the contours of the 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.760 fairways and how they were lined up. So eighteen months 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.520 ago we actually sort of widened the side of the 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.800 fairways that were going into these bunkers or closer to 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.120 the penalty areas. Then so all the guests for a 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:16.439 year played with very wide fairways. Then in twenty nineteen 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.240 we brought in the other side of the fairways and 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.120 not only back to the original width, but in some 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.439 cases a little narrower. So that in effect was a 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:32.320 year and long process to make that change, and that's 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.800 probably the biggest change we made. I think we did 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.600 add three or four additional teas, two of which were 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.200 already in the plans that the club had, and a 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.000 couple of the thoughts that we came up within our 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:53.000 initial review of the golf course three years ago. Long process, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.800 and again need none of those changed with the date change. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.640 But to your point verifying of the greens and the 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.640 top dressing and some of the practices we did the 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.679 fairways and the greens got readjusted, the cust of the 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.440 day change into August. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.600 With with and fairway with you were talking about. I'm 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:19.280 interested to hear your perspective on is there a width 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:24.000 of fairways? Obviously contours and faaraways, grade of slope could 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.440 be different that could make players certain faraways play smaller. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.040 But is there a general kind of magic number that 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:35.520 you look at saying this wide of a fairway tests 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.720 you know, rewards inaccurate te shot while still allowing somebody 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.760 to hit a driver, say, or you know where is 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.720 there a magic number that you kind of like to 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.319 look at year and year out? 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:50.960 Yeah, there really is. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.880 And I think to your point, you really need to 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.080 look at every individual hole and see sort of how 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.160 it's designed. What you know, it's a dog lay, if 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.960 it straight, what the canber, the slope of those fair 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.800 ways are, where the where the bunkering is located, and 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.839 sort of based on all of those and the length 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.559 of the hole, because that obviously has a bearing on 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.840 the width or not. And I think my aim or 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.120 our aim is to try and get it so that 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.880 when the player stands on the tee they sort of 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.320 have to think a little bit about, you know, where 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:28.840 to hit it. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.240 Should I hit a driver? Should I not hit a driver? 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.040 What's the penalty for doing hitting the driver versus not 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.959 hitting it? And I always think and say, just every golfer, 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.920 not just the best players in the world. But if 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.440 you can make a golfer think, then I think the 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.200 tendency is you tend to enjoy playing that golf course 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.280 a lot more than just being standing up and you 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.680 can hit whatever shot you want without having a think, 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.560 And that's sort of the reasoning or part of the 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.560 reason we do it. So with Wise, you know, it 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.840 could be you know, twenty two twenty three yards wide 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.360 is narrow, but it could be thirty five even forty 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.040 yards wide. So I don't think there's a set with 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.280 I think you're going to take all those factors in 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:22.360 the consideration and then make your best judgment to again, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.640 just you know, put yourself in that position on that team. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.640 You know, what is it that makes you think or nothink? 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.600 And how wide is the appropriate with based on what 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.360 you visually see off that team. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.480 With harding Park, you talked about moving fairways to you know, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.240 get the hazards more in play specifically for this championship. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.439 What are some other unique aspects of the golf course 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.079 that you are going to try or hope to accentuate 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:48.840 with your setup. 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.360 Well, I think the you know, it's a beautiful part 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.360 from golf course. It's relatively flat, it's it's very easy 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.440 to walk from a player standpoint, so it has just 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.880 jumped rolls throughout the course. It's highlighted by beautiful California 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.560 cypress trees and just a stunning to look at except if. 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.360 You ball hits them and stays in them. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.880 And the entire property is surrounded by a lake, lake merseat, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.280 so visually there's a lot of beautiful, stunning views. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:23.240 It's you know, it's. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.520 Only half a mile although it's not on the ocean, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.960 it's only probably half a mile to the Pacific Ocean. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.400 So in that regards, it's it's a beautiful golf course, 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.440 fun golf course to play, and an easy golf course 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.160 to be able to walk. Specifically for the setup, as 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.440 you say, I think adding some of these teas we 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.120 did so for a couple of reasons, you know, One 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.720 was you know, to make provide a longer path three 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:57.000 the eighth hole maybe two hundred and fifty yard par three. Previously, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.720 you know, although it was alongest par three was only 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.720 like two twenty yards or thereabouts. So given the players 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.000 along the par three four was important. The other the 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.760 three other par three is a relatively short in fact, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.240 you know, two hundred yards or less, so that was 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.560 part of it. Another fun aspect. The two par fives 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.360 are probably both reachable, which in itself gives the players 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.360 some fun and some options to go at it. And 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.480 there are two relatively short par fours, one on each 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.320 nine the seventh hole and sixteenth holes. So with the 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:42.440 setup probably you know, one or two days for either 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.560 or both of those holes, we may look to move 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.440 the tier again, so the players have that option to 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.520 you know, probably go full go for the green, and 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.840 again if you do that, you know, the sixteenth in 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.200 particular has lateness, said on the left side of the green, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.640 and you know, a big cypress tree on the corner 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.600 of the dog leg to hit at the greens. So 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.800 those factors and where it is in the round I 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.920 think could and hopefully will lead to some great excitement 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.400 coming down to the finish of the Major championship. So 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.880 all those aspects make it fun. And then a couple 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.440 of the other part fours where we added teas it 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.160 sort of made it more of a dog leg on 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.280 one occasion, brought another the cypress trees in and the 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:36.600 fairway bunkers into play on the thirteenth calls. So you know, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.280 those are the sort of things that we're looking at 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.040 when we look to make additions or changes, again hopefully 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.480 to make the players think, but hopefully to make it 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.240 a more exciting fun venue to watch and play. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.040 Yeah, that sixteenth ell is really neat. How it's got 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.800 that narrow kind of angle green also which it should 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.720 be a really fun short Part four And just in 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.040 gener I think, you know, the most exciting stretch of 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.360 golf on that golf course happens from about fourteen through eighteen. 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.400 It really gets into the best property on the site 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.960 and it should lend itself well to you know, a 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.439 closing stretch of a major In terms of your all 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.159 your experience now doing the setup for a number of years, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:26.280 has your personal philosophy changed at all? And you know, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.639 were there moments that made you think differently over the 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:34.120 last say decade or so of setting up golf courses. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.080 I think it continues to change, Yes, say, I think 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:44.240 you always, but. 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.240 It varies so much on the golf course. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.919 You know, you don't want to change the golf course 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.520 and the architecture of the golf course where the chapters 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.240 that's been played. Again, I think the philosophy continue has 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.600 always been to try and bring out what are the 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.800 fun elements, interesting elements, challenging and. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.399 Elements or difficult elements of the golf any golf course. 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.359 But you know, the height of the rough I think 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.240 I would say has probably changed over time with technology 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.600 we've had to certainly adapt to over the years to 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.160 you know, as far as the players are hitting the ball, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.160 that's certainly changed in a lot of cases. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:29.119 Many of the courses we play have changed over the years. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.119 As well to adapt to the change in nature of 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.440 the game. But as we know, with the average driving 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.800 length now basically three hundred yards for the majority of 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.240 the players who will be playing, then you know, those 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.919 landing areas have changed, and those courses that the bunkering 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.119 was a two seventy five or two eighty yards thirty 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.880 years ago, they have been able in many in some 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.280 cases have been able to change and others have, But 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.960 all of those factors make you have to change a 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.560 little bit your philosophy of how you set it up. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:09.120 But I think the overriding philosophy has and always hopefully 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.080 continues to be that you'll try and make it so 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.200 that the players are challenged, but in a fair and 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:22.280 exciting way. You know, everyone who sets up any golf 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.720 course always hopes that you don't go over the top 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.600 and make it unfair. You want good shots to be rewarded. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.679 In our case, we don't really mind what the winning 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.560 score is. It's more important that the players enjoy the 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.160 experience and our challenge by the experience to hopefully show 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.719 be able for them to showcase their skills, and hopefully 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.879 that the best player that week wins, as is usually 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.399 the case, and it's not just one area of the 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:52.960 game that you need to accel at. 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:59.840 Yeah, I imagine that with that distance, the increase with 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.760 how far players are hitting it. I mean, Bryson obviously 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.280 has been a hot topic the last since the return 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.320 of Gotha. With how far he's hitting it, It just 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.800 makes that line of that overboard versus just right is it? 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.680 Do you feel like it's gotten thinner and thinner as 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:20.960 the distances have increased. 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.159 I think there's a tendency if you've led it to 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:29.360 get become that way. But certainly my hope is that 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.639 we don't allow it to influence what you do, and 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:37.520 you should still aim to set it up fairly and 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.359 as you set it up, and you know, obviously a 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.600 big part of it is the speed of the greens, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.040 and you know, a big part of what that should 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.760 be or rough to be is dependent on the greens 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.440 complexes that you're playing, and that varies so much from 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.320 venue to venue. Harding Park, I think it's fair to 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.360 say are generally not severe greens in terms of slopes. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:07.480 They're sort of gentle slopes, you know, which which you 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.800 know should allow us to get the greens fairly quick. 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:13.960 But that's okay. 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.879 If the green complexes. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.560 Allow you to do that, then that's appropriate for the 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.880 best players in the world. And so long as you're 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.240 always trying to set up what is appropriate and fair 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.919 for whatever group, even if it's you know, the member 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.399 guest at a club or a monthly medal, it's you know, 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.200 you need to set it up so it's fair. But 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.160 the players enjoy it. So the philosophy for the best 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.240 players in the world to others is just, you know, 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.800 to be reasonable, fair and use common sense. And that's 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.200 certainly what we try and do year in year. 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.800 With the one are the golf terms I as a 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:56.679 golf architecture kind of fan that I always kind of 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.439 have an adverse reaction to with players when players discuss 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.280 stuff is fair, the idea of fair. You know, what 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.119 is fair, what isn't fair? How do you delineate the 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:12.200 term fair for you know, tournament off we've sort of. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.960 Been touching on it. I think throughout the discussion. Personally, 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:21.040 I think it's so that good shots are rewarded with 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:29.120 the opportunities to score well, you know, I that would 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.760 be you know, firm greens are okay. 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:31.920 But. 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.199 You know, and with the fair ways can vary. But 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.600 it's it's that balance of all of the different factors 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.200 that go into setting, you know, is in terms of 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.800 it's what makes it fair or not fair, And certainly 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:49.879 there is you know, there's a line there that you 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.320 need to be careful of, you know, and sometimes things 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:56.840 you know are out of your control. If the windows 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.960 blow at thirty miles an hour, and you know it's 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.560 try and sunny, and things get you know, dry, faster 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:08.000 than you anticipated, and you know the day earlier didn't 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.480 put enough moisture into the creams. Then unfortunately things happen. 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.960 And you know, all I ever say is you try 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:20.080 and make your best decisions all every day at the time, 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.919 and use all the information you can that's available to 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:27.240 make those decisions. And sometimes mother nature can come around 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.320 and you know hurt you or bite you, but hopefully 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.359 it's not through you doing something deliberately to try and 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:38.359 make it unfair. It would be you know, you either 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.480 had wrong information or didn't quite make the best judgments. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.120 So that's how I kind of try and look at 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:49.080 it for every event. Any in all events, and as 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.200 I say, you're only as good as the next day, 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.840 that your next round that you're setting up, because danger 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.920 can be when you know one bad whole location or 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.479 one bad whatever, nobody ever forgets it. 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.960 So it's you're only as good as the next round, 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.080 like you're setting up in this business. 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:14.640 Yeah, that's definitely for sure. A true statement was you've 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:22.119 obviously your career and you've had great success avoiding the disaster, 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:26.000 and everybody is always praises your setups. Was there ever 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:32.080 a championship around where you really were nervous that you 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.800 might be on the edge of something not being okay? 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:39.119