Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's
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Speaker 1: off just about everything on that website. Today's episode, I
Speaker 1: am joined by the PGA's Chief Championships officer Carrie Haig. Obviously,
Speaker 1: he is renowned for his setups at the PGA Championship,
Speaker 1: the KPMG Women's Championship, PGA Championship, as well as the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup. So I talked to Carrie in detail about
Speaker 1: our first major, which is no more than ten days
Speaker 1: away at this point. It is going to be the
Speaker 1: PGA Championship at Harding Park in San Francisco. So we
Speaker 1: talk in detail about Hardigg Parks and setting up a
Speaker 1: major championship against the world's best players. Without further ado,
Speaker 1: here is Carrie Haig. I miss the green for example,
Speaker 1: I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker,
Speaker 1: I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in
Speaker 1: a frid Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg fridaygg
Speaker 1: Frida egg ridegg Brighte egg Lie, I'm about ready to.
Speaker 2: Run off of the.
Speaker 1: So I I read you were a good player grown up,
Speaker 1: you're a scratch golfer. Was there a moment that killed
Speaker 1: any illusions you had of playing golf as a professional
Speaker 1: and you know put you into the uh you know
Speaker 1: you then pursued it golf as a profession, not a professional.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as I said, I was a decent amateur player,
Speaker 3: but I played junior golf in England. But I loved
Speaker 3: other sports as well, So I played soccer, rugby, cricket, basketball,
Speaker 3: and I loved those team sports. So in truth, I didn't,
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like here way you'll literally give
Speaker 3: your whole life to a single sport. So then I
Speaker 3: got to I played in a couple of national events
Speaker 3: and saw really how good, you know, the great players are.
Speaker 3: I love the game, totally, absolutely loved the game and
Speaker 3: wanted to sort of work with the game. And what
Speaker 3: better opportunity than to end up ultimately doing what I'm
Speaker 3: doing with the rules of the golf.
Speaker 2: Course setup and overseeing all of that championship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's talk about that. Obviously, the big news
Speaker 1: we were going to be the first major championship of
Speaker 1: the year, first major championship. Back, is there? Do you
Speaker 1: feel any pressure with being the first major in this
Speaker 1: post corona, you know, the coronavirus world, not post coronavirus world.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say necessarily pressure to be the first.
Speaker 3: Obviously, we're excited that major championship golf is going to
Speaker 3: actually happen and the fact that we are the first
Speaker 3: this calendar year is nice, but certainly by no means
Speaker 3: I think does it bring extra pressure in that regard.
Speaker 3: I think we all have the continuing concern about the virus,
Speaker 3: and you know, still what's happening today and every day
Speaker 3: it's something new that happens. So those concerns for people
Speaker 3: and the community from day one when the virus started
Speaker 3: in March, has been priority number one. And the fact
Speaker 3: that we're able to host a major championship at Harding Park,
Speaker 3: which we've looked forward to for many years, is exciting
Speaker 3: in itself, even though there won't be any spectators.
Speaker 1: Talk about setting up obviously your renowned for your setup
Speaker 1: at the PGA, What are some of the maybe advantages
Speaker 1: or drawbacks are setting up without fans versus setting up
Speaker 1: with fans.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that.
Speaker 3: Actually, what I'll be doing the next two weeks is
Speaker 3: in many ways exactly the same as I do for
Speaker 3: every other championship.
Speaker 2: That that's not going to change.
Speaker 3: In terms of trying to, you know, bring out a fair, challenging,
Speaker 3: interesting yet exciting golf course for the best players in
Speaker 3: the world. And although you know all that part of
Speaker 3: the Championship remain one hundred percent the same as it's
Speaker 3: always been. The biggest difference is what would be going
Speaker 3: on or not going on outside of the ropes and
Speaker 3: sort of how that affects the sort of play inside
Speaker 3: the ropes and the visual.
Speaker 2: What is seen by you know, the worldwide viewers inside
Speaker 2: the ropes on the telecast.
Speaker 3: But in terms of, you know, how we set it up,
Speaker 3: we'll look at all the same things we always do
Speaker 3: in terms of, you know, what the weather's going to
Speaker 3: be like, I can you know, hopefully get the golf
Speaker 3: course into the condition that will fairly test the best
Speaker 3: players in the world and make them think and hopefully
Speaker 3: bring out the great excitement that we like to see
Speaker 3: at a PGA Championship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you signed Harding Park On, obviously the PGA
Speaker 1: was still an August major, and then you were it
Speaker 1: was going to be this May, and now you're back
Speaker 1: in August. How does the course play differently in August
Speaker 1: versus that May May date that it was originally planned for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that too has been interesting.
Speaker 3: As you say, we've gone from August when we signed it,
Speaker 3: to May two years ago and then back to August.
Speaker 3: The original Probably the original week that we could have
Speaker 3: been on or would.
Speaker 2: Have been on. But there's a lot of things have
Speaker 2: happened in between.
Speaker 3: Golf course wise. One of the fortunate things in that
Speaker 3: regard is the San Francisco's climate is so generally temperate
Speaker 3: that it's not temperature wise, conditioning wise should not be
Speaker 3: that much different in May than August. Obviously, agronomically, we
Speaker 3: did what we had put on hold and we're not
Speaker 3: going to do in the spring with the May date.
Speaker 3: Once we postponed and put it to August, we started
Speaker 3: to redo some of the the agonomic practices in the
Speaker 3: spring when it was closed so that it can get
Speaker 3: through the summertime.
Speaker 2: And that's been interesting.
Speaker 3: You know, the golf course was closed for five or
Speaker 3: six weeks immediately after the virus hit, and then it
Speaker 3: was opened and was full of play from dawn till dusk,
Speaker 3: and now the past two weeks prior to the start
Speaker 3: of the championship.
Speaker 2: It will be closed again.
Speaker 3: So we've sort of gone through no play and it
Speaker 3: was in great condition in the spring and then you know,
Speaker 3: full t sheet for ten eleven weeks and now well
Speaker 3: eight a nine weeks should I say, And now you
Speaker 3: know getting it back to Christine condition for next week.
Speaker 3: So we were a little less daylight. We had to
Speaker 3: adjust the starting times fifteen twenty minutes or so because
Speaker 3: of the less daylight. But we're still hopeful it will
Speaker 3: play as we hoped it would play.
Speaker 2: And obviously, just like.
Speaker 3: Every championship, with dependent on what the weather does, if
Speaker 3: the wind blows or not, or you know, well in fact,
Speaker 3: how the golf course plays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with that agronomic lead up, they were talking about
Speaker 1: how early are you starting to you know, how long
Speaker 1: of a process is that it is a year eighteen
Speaker 1: months that you're planning agronomic events, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: punching greens or doing different adjustments to the golf course
Speaker 1: in the lead up to a traditional Obviously this is
Speaker 1: not a normal situation. But in a normal situation, an
Speaker 1: ideal situation, what does that lead up process look like.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 3: I think in this case, it's probably been about two
Speaker 3: years that we started to work. I started to work
Speaker 3: with the you know, the superintendent at Harding Park. You know,
Speaker 3: they actually had three people in charge, Kevin Tan and
Speaker 3: al Mar and Jeffrey sort of combine as a team
Speaker 3: and we had our original concert. What we did put
Speaker 3: into place was we wanted to adjust the fairways to
Speaker 3: bring into play some of the challenges of the golf course,
Speaker 3: so that is the bunkers and some of the penalty
Speaker 3: areas and bring the fairways a little closer or into
Speaker 3: both of those, which meant adjusting the contours of the
Speaker 3: fairways and how they were lined up. So eighteen months
Speaker 3: ago we actually sort of widened the side of the
Speaker 3: fairways that were going into these bunkers or closer to
Speaker 3: the penalty areas. Then so all the guests for a
Speaker 3: year played with very wide fairways. Then in twenty nineteen
Speaker 3: we brought in the other side of the fairways and
Speaker 3: not only back to the original width, but in some
Speaker 3: cases a little narrower. So that in effect was a
Speaker 3: year and long process to make that change, and that's
Speaker 3: probably the biggest change we made. I think we did
Speaker 3: add three or four additional teas, two of which were
Speaker 3: already in the plans that the club had, and a
Speaker 3: couple of the thoughts that we came up within our
Speaker 3: initial review of the golf course three years ago. Long process,
Speaker 3: and again need none of those changed with the date change.
Speaker 3: But to your point verifying of the greens and the
Speaker 3: top dressing and some of the practices we did the
Speaker 3: fairways and the greens got readjusted, the cust of the
Speaker 3: day change into August.
Speaker 1: With with and fairway with you were talking about. I'm
Speaker 1: interested to hear your perspective on is there a width
Speaker 1: of fairways? Obviously contours and faaraways, grade of slope could
Speaker 1: be different that could make players certain faraways play smaller.
Speaker 1: But is there a general kind of magic number that
Speaker 1: you look at saying this wide of a fairway tests
Speaker 1: you know, rewards inaccurate te shot while still allowing somebody
Speaker 1: to hit a driver, say, or you know where is
Speaker 1: there a magic number that you kind of like to
Speaker 1: look at year and year out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there really is.
Speaker 3: And I think to your point, you really need to
Speaker 3: look at every individual hole and see sort of how
Speaker 3: it's designed. What you know, it's a dog lay, if
Speaker 3: it straight, what the canber, the slope of those fair
Speaker 3: ways are, where the where the bunkering is located, and
Speaker 3: sort of based on all of those and the length
Speaker 3: of the hole, because that obviously has a bearing on
Speaker 3: the width or not. And I think my aim or
Speaker 3: our aim is to try and get it so that
Speaker 3: when the player stands on the tee they sort of
Speaker 3: have to think a little bit about, you know, where
Speaker 3: to hit it.
Speaker 2: Should I hit a driver? Should I not hit a driver?
Speaker 3: What's the penalty for doing hitting the driver versus not
Speaker 3: hitting it? And I always think and say, just every golfer,
Speaker 3: not just the best players in the world. But if
Speaker 3: you can make a golfer think, then I think the
Speaker 3: tendency is you tend to enjoy playing that golf course
Speaker 3: a lot more than just being standing up and you
Speaker 3: can hit whatever shot you want without having a think,
Speaker 3: And that's sort of the reasoning or part of the
Speaker 3: reason we do it. So with Wise, you know, it
Speaker 3: could be you know, twenty two twenty three yards wide
Speaker 3: is narrow, but it could be thirty five even forty
Speaker 3: yards wide. So I don't think there's a set with
Speaker 3: I think you're going to take all those factors in
Speaker 3: the consideration and then make your best judgment to again,
Speaker 3: just you know, put yourself in that position on that team.
Speaker 3: You know, what is it that makes you think or nothink?
Speaker 3: And how wide is the appropriate with based on what
Speaker 3: you visually see off that team.
Speaker 1: With harding Park, you talked about moving fairways to you know,
Speaker 1: get the hazards more in play specifically for this championship.
Speaker 1: What are some other unique aspects of the golf course
Speaker 1: that you are going to try or hope to accentuate
Speaker 1: with your setup.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the you know, it's a beautiful part
Speaker 3: from golf course. It's relatively flat, it's it's very easy
Speaker 3: to walk from a player standpoint, so it has just
Speaker 3: jumped rolls throughout the course. It's highlighted by beautiful California
Speaker 3: cypress trees and just a stunning to look at except if.
Speaker 2: You ball hits them and stays in them.
Speaker 3: And the entire property is surrounded by a lake, lake merseat,
Speaker 3: so visually there's a lot of beautiful, stunning views.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Only half a mile although it's not on the ocean,
Speaker 3: it's only probably half a mile to the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 3: So in that regards, it's it's a beautiful golf course,
Speaker 3: fun golf course to play, and an easy golf course
Speaker 3: to be able to walk. Specifically for the setup, as
Speaker 3: you say, I think adding some of these teas we
Speaker 3: did so for a couple of reasons, you know, One
Speaker 3: was you know, to make provide a longer path three
Speaker 3: the eighth hole maybe two hundred and fifty yard par three. Previously,
Speaker 3: you know, although it was alongest par three was only
Speaker 3: like two twenty yards or thereabouts. So given the players
Speaker 3: along the par three four was important. The other the
Speaker 3: three other par three is a relatively short in fact,
Speaker 3: you know, two hundred yards or less, so that was
Speaker 3: part of it. Another fun aspect. The two par fives
Speaker 3: are probably both reachable, which in itself gives the players
Speaker 3: some fun and some options to go at it. And
Speaker 3: there are two relatively short par fours, one on each
Speaker 3: nine the seventh hole and sixteenth holes. So with the
Speaker 3: setup probably you know, one or two days for either
Speaker 3: or both of those holes, we may look to move
Speaker 3: the tier again, so the players have that option to
Speaker 3: you know, probably go full go for the green, and
Speaker 3: again if you do that, you know, the sixteenth in
Speaker 3: particular has lateness, said on the left side of the green,
Speaker 3: and you know, a big cypress tree on the corner
Speaker 3: of the dog leg to hit at the greens. So
Speaker 3: those factors and where it is in the round I
Speaker 3: think could and hopefully will lead to some great excitement
Speaker 3: coming down to the finish of the Major championship. So
Speaker 3: all those aspects make it fun. And then a couple
Speaker 3: of the other part fours where we added teas it
Speaker 3: sort of made it more of a dog leg on
Speaker 3: one occasion, brought another the cypress trees in and the
Speaker 3: fairway bunkers into play on the thirteenth calls. So you know,
Speaker 3: those are the sort of things that we're looking at
Speaker 3: when we look to make additions or changes, again hopefully
Speaker 3: to make the players think, but hopefully to make it
Speaker 3: a more exciting fun venue to watch and play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sixteenth ell is really neat. How it's got
Speaker 1: that narrow kind of angle green also which it should
Speaker 1: be a really fun short Part four And just in
Speaker 1: gener I think, you know, the most exciting stretch of
Speaker 1: golf on that golf course happens from about fourteen through eighteen.
Speaker 1: It really gets into the best property on the site
Speaker 1: and it should lend itself well to you know, a
Speaker 1: closing stretch of a major In terms of your all
Speaker 1: your experience now doing the setup for a number of years,
Speaker 1: has your personal philosophy changed at all? And you know,
Speaker 1: were there moments that made you think differently over the
Speaker 1: last say decade or so of setting up golf courses.
Speaker 3: I think it continues to change, Yes, say, I think
Speaker 3: you always, but.
Speaker 2: It varies so much on the golf course.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't want to change the golf course
Speaker 3: and the architecture of the golf course where the chapters
Speaker 3: that's been played. Again, I think the philosophy continue has
Speaker 3: always been to try and bring out what are the
Speaker 3: fun elements, interesting elements, challenging and.
Speaker 2: Elements or difficult elements of the golf any golf course.
Speaker 3: But you know, the height of the rough I think
Speaker 3: I would say has probably changed over time with technology
Speaker 3: we've had to certainly adapt to over the years to
Speaker 3: you know, as far as the players are hitting the ball,
Speaker 3: that's certainly changed in a lot of cases.
Speaker 2: Many of the courses we play have changed over the years.
Speaker 3: As well to adapt to the change in nature of
Speaker 3: the game. But as we know, with the average driving
Speaker 3: length now basically three hundred yards for the majority of
Speaker 3: the players who will be playing, then you know, those
Speaker 3: landing areas have changed, and those courses that the bunkering
Speaker 3: was a two seventy five or two eighty yards thirty
Speaker 3: years ago, they have been able in many in some
Speaker 3: cases have been able to change and others have, But
Speaker 3: all of those factors make you have to change a
Speaker 3: little bit your philosophy of how you set it up.
Speaker 3: But I think the overriding philosophy has and always hopefully
Speaker 3: continues to be that you'll try and make it so
Speaker 3: that the players are challenged, but in a fair and
Speaker 3: exciting way. You know, everyone who sets up any golf
Speaker 3: course always hopes that you don't go over the top
Speaker 3: and make it unfair. You want good shots to be rewarded.
Speaker 3: In our case, we don't really mind what the winning
Speaker 3: score is. It's more important that the players enjoy the
Speaker 3: experience and our challenge by the experience to hopefully show
Speaker 3: be able for them to showcase their skills, and hopefully
Speaker 3: that the best player that week wins, as is usually
Speaker 3: the case, and it's not just one area of the
Speaker 3: game that you need to accel at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine that with that distance, the increase with
Speaker 1: how far players are hitting it. I mean, Bryson obviously
Speaker 1: has been a hot topic the last since the return
Speaker 1: of Gotha. With how far he's hitting it, It just
Speaker 1: makes that line of that overboard versus just right is it?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's gotten thinner and thinner as
Speaker 1: the distances have increased.
Speaker 3: I think there's a tendency if you've led it to
Speaker 3: get become that way. But certainly my hope is that
Speaker 3: we don't allow it to influence what you do, and
Speaker 3: you should still aim to set it up fairly and
Speaker 3: as you set it up, and you know, obviously a
Speaker 3: big part of it is the speed of the greens,
Speaker 3: and you know, a big part of what that should
Speaker 3: be or rough to be is dependent on the greens
Speaker 3: complexes that you're playing, and that varies so much from
Speaker 3: venue to venue. Harding Park, I think it's fair to
Speaker 3: say are generally not severe greens in terms of slopes.
Speaker 3: They're sort of gentle slopes, you know, which which you
Speaker 3: know should allow us to get the greens fairly quick.
Speaker 3: But that's okay.
Speaker 2: If the green complexes.
Speaker 3: Allow you to do that, then that's appropriate for the
Speaker 3: best players in the world. And so long as you're
Speaker 3: always trying to set up what is appropriate and fair
Speaker 3: for whatever group, even if it's you know, the member
Speaker 3: guest at a club or a monthly medal, it's you know,
Speaker 3: you need to set it up so it's fair. But
Speaker 3: the players enjoy it. So the philosophy for the best
Speaker 3: players in the world to others is just, you know,
Speaker 3: to be reasonable, fair and use common sense. And that's
Speaker 3: certainly what we try and do year in year.
Speaker 1: With the one are the golf terms I as a
Speaker 1: golf architecture kind of fan that I always kind of
Speaker 1: have an adverse reaction to with players when players discuss
Speaker 1: stuff is fair, the idea of fair. You know, what
Speaker 1: is fair, what isn't fair? How do you delineate the
Speaker 1: term fair for you know, tournament off we've sort of.
Speaker 3: Been touching on it. I think throughout the discussion. Personally,
Speaker 3: I think it's so that good shots are rewarded with
Speaker 3: the opportunities to score well, you know, I that would
Speaker 3: be you know, firm greens are okay.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 3: You know, and with the fair ways can vary. But
Speaker 3: it's it's that balance of all of the different factors
Speaker 3: that go into setting, you know, is in terms of
Speaker 3: it's what makes it fair or not fair, And certainly
Speaker 3: there is you know, there's a line there that you
Speaker 3: need to be careful of, you know, and sometimes things
Speaker 3: you know are out of your control. If the windows
Speaker 3: blow at thirty miles an hour, and you know it's
Speaker 3: try and sunny, and things get you know, dry, faster
Speaker 3: than you anticipated, and you know the day earlier didn't
Speaker 3: put enough moisture into the creams. Then unfortunately things happen.
Speaker 3: And you know, all I ever say is you try
Speaker 3: and make your best decisions all every day at the time,
Speaker 3: and use all the information you can that's available to
Speaker 3: make those decisions. And sometimes mother nature can come around
Speaker 3: and you know hurt you or bite you, but hopefully
Speaker 3: it's not through you doing something deliberately to try and
Speaker 3: make it unfair. It would be you know, you either
Speaker 3: had wrong information or didn't quite make the best judgments.
Speaker 3: So that's how I kind of try and look at
Speaker 3: it for every event. Any in all events, and as
Speaker 3: I say, you're only as good as the next day,
Speaker 3: that your next round that you're setting up, because danger
Speaker 3: can be when you know one bad whole location or
Speaker 3: one bad whatever, nobody ever forgets it.
Speaker 2: So it's you're only as good as the next round,
Speaker 2: like you're setting up in this business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely for sure. A true statement was you've
Speaker 1: obviously your career and you've had great success avoiding the disaster,
Speaker 1: and everybody is always praises your setups. Was there ever
Speaker 1: a championship around where you really were nervous that you
Speaker 1: might be on the edge of something not being okay?
Speaker 1: And then as far as is there a tournament that
Speaker 1: you look back on and think, God, we really nailed
Speaker 1: that setup that stands out more so than any other event.
Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question, man, I'd say to the
Speaker 3: first part of that, I would say, very often are
Speaker 3: the cases when you know you've got to you know,
Speaker 3: churn in your stomach just hoping not you know, the
Speaker 3: wind's starting to blow, whatever it is, the rains pouring down,
Speaker 3: or whatever the issue that you have a not in
Speaker 3: your stomach.
Speaker 2: You know, did we set it up correctly and fairly?
Speaker 2: You know? So, I would say, you know, most most weeks.
Speaker 3: So most events, there's you know, a hole or a
Speaker 3: couple of holes where you are trying.
Speaker 2: To test the players.
Speaker 3: You are putting them some things out there to try
Speaker 3: and make it challenging, and you know, of course there's
Speaker 3: concern of how it's received. Yeah, I'd say, you know,
Speaker 3: every week, every every week, without doubt, there's always concern
Speaker 3: of the unknown because you never know what the weather
Speaker 3: is going to do, what the wind's going to do
Speaker 3: you have how things have reacted to not putting on
Speaker 3: as much water or no water. That's why I usually
Speaker 3: lose a bit of weight during the week of a
Speaker 3: championship for that concern and worry.
Speaker 2: I'm not ashamed to say that or embarrassed to say it.
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's take the job very seriously and
Speaker 3: I want to do the best that I can. And
Speaker 3: anytime you feel that way towards what you do, I
Speaker 3: think there's always.
Speaker 2: Concern in terms of ever nailing a setup.
Speaker 3: You know, in truth, I think they probably the ones
Speaker 3: that are most satisfying are those where you have bad
Speaker 3: weather or or challenging circumstances and you know, you get
Speaker 3: through it somehow, you know. I guess one that springs
Speaker 3: to mind for the good and the bad would be
Speaker 3: a Valhalla in twenty fourteen, when you know, we'd had
Speaker 3: rain Friday and we'd have delays, we'd come teas and
Speaker 3: we played Sunday morning, and we ended up playing Sunday
Speaker 3: afternoon and we've got back on track.
Speaker 1: And Sunday night too.
Speaker 3: And then you know, at Sunday about eleven thirty, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden we had We've got a great weather forecast,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, this big cloud came over
Speaker 3: us and we had to suspend play. And you know,
Speaker 3: it absolutely dumped probably an inch inch and a half
Speaker 3: of rain on what was already a saturated golf course.
Speaker 3: But then it passed through. It was a very short rainfall,
Speaker 3: but the golf course was totally flooded, and you know,
Speaker 3: I looked around, drove around. The sun was going to
Speaker 3: be out the rest of the day. You know, most
Speaker 3: people were kind of saying, well, there's no way we
Speaker 3: can play. We need to sort of not play, And
Speaker 3: you know, it was a very tough, difficult decision because
Speaker 3: it was extremely wet. It was extremely challenging when we
Speaker 3: immediately chose to start playing, but we made we collectively
Speaker 3: made that decision to start playing to give us a
Speaker 3: chance to finish that night. Now, we needed a lot
Speaker 3: of things to go right for us to finish that
Speaker 3: night because of their aim, because of what we had
Speaker 3: to do with all the casual water and the players
Speaker 3: having to take relief then for slower play. But you know,
Speaker 3: made that tough decision. Players went back out. We were
Speaker 3: whatever two two and a half hours behind schedule. And
Speaker 3: ultimately the players played and we had what ended up
Speaker 3: being one of the most exciting, exhilarating finishes to a
Speaker 3: major championship we've ever had for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 3: and none of which was the officials or PGA and
Speaker 3: making the players play. They the last three groups, as
Speaker 3: you remember, all came up eighteen together. But at any time,
Speaker 3: had any one of the players said, no, it's too
Speaker 3: dark to play, we would have stopped playing. Nobody from
Speaker 3: the PGA was putting pressure on them, but the players
Speaker 3: wanted to finish. And what ended up being, you know,
Speaker 3: as I say, a great finish to what was it,
Speaker 3: you know, a very difficult and challenging situation. In that case,
Speaker 3: we ended up winning. But you know a lot of players,
Speaker 3: certainly early in the way, were not happy that we
Speaker 3: were playing when it was so wet.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a raining but because of the
Speaker 2: wet conditions.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that, you know, the one that stands out
Speaker 1: is the most kind of rewarding was the one that
Speaker 1: had you face the most you know, challenges to overcome.
Speaker 1: What types of set up aspects do you feel today
Speaker 1: really reward good play and allow players to separate themselves
Speaker 1: well that's.
Speaker 3: A tough question as well. I think again I go
Speaker 3: back to all the things we've been talking about. I
Speaker 3: do think if you can set up a golf course
Speaker 3: to make players have to think what to do a
Speaker 3: I think players much really enjoy playing the game playing
Speaker 3: those courses when that make you think and have to
Speaker 3: make decisions. So and by doing that, hopefully you set
Speaker 3: it up. You know, I would say, we have some
Speaker 3: of the you know, the most difficult whole locations possible
Speaker 3: on many of the greens, but at the right time
Speaker 3: and at the appropriate time, you know, put the whole
Speaker 3: locations in places that allow the players or tempt the
Speaker 3: players to go out at those whole locations to therefore
Speaker 3: be able to score well, go after visities or readers.
Speaker 3: And again, I think that sort of combination of making
Speaker 3: you know, some of the whole locations accessible and tempting,
Speaker 3: whereas others may be really difficult and challenging. And you know,
Speaker 3: players as great as they are, sometimes go right out
Speaker 3: the really difficult whole location and still be rewarded, but
Speaker 3: at the same time may not get into trouble and
Speaker 3: drop shots. So it's it's a balance, as I think
Speaker 3: everything is, and just you and I when we play.
Speaker 3: We like those challenges.
Speaker 2: We like the balance, and.
Speaker 3: We all like to be rewarded if you get good
Speaker 3: shots or allowed to go at a flag. And I
Speaker 3: always say, member, guests or you know, a big tournament,
Speaker 3: how often do you go at every whole location? Is
Speaker 3: probably the most difficult on the golf course and kind
Speaker 3: of look back and how much fun is that? How
Speaker 3: much do you really enjoy that? And I know some
Speaker 3: members like to bring their guess our course is impossible
Speaker 3: with all these but people have so much more fun
Speaker 3: if you know at least you know a few the
Speaker 3: whole locations accessible.
Speaker 2: On the school buildies or they're allowed to attack. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some tough ones as well.
Speaker 3: Not balance that makes it's really what I'm looking to
Speaker 3: try and find.
Speaker 2: At any event.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean, variety is so important. You
Speaker 1: do you don't want every single pintuck because you know
Speaker 1: it's you want to see some players have opportunities to
Speaker 1: get some momentum going too. You know, it's a big
Speaker 1: part of the game. You think about setup all the
Speaker 1: time obviously, and I'm sure that you watch a lot
Speaker 1: of professional golf, is there is there a certain thing
Speaker 1: that every you know year when you're watching, when you're
Speaker 1: you know, PGA week and you start their players are
Speaker 1: out there playing that you know, you're always like constantly
Speaker 1: makes your jaw drop about the best players in the
Speaker 1: world and how good that they You somehow forget how
Speaker 1: good they are at something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, And.
Speaker 3: That's the great thing about the fortunate thing we are
Speaker 3: in terms of operating and running a made your championship
Speaker 3: is you get to see truly how great the best
Speaker 3: players in the world are at this game.
Speaker 2: Their skill level is unbelievable. The amount of work, time, effort,
Speaker 2: and energy they put into.
Speaker 3: Learning and developing their skills is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I do during the week.
Speaker 3: Most of the practice rounds, I really try and make
Speaker 3: an effort to go and see how the goal of
Speaker 3: course is playing and where they are the players are
Speaker 3: choosing to hit their.
Speaker 2: T shots from and come in from, because all our
Speaker 2: planning that.
Speaker 3: We've been doing for three years is all based on
Speaker 3: what we believe they're going to do.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Certainly part of the setup and helps me in setting
Speaker 3: up is seeing during the practice rounds where they are
Speaker 3: actually hitting it to how they are looking to play
Speaker 3: a hole. Based on that, I may adjust things and
Speaker 3: likely will adjust things come championship rounds based on what
Speaker 3: I may or may not see on the practice rounds, which.
Speaker 2: Again each day.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've got a sort of a four day planning place,
Speaker 3: but absolutely during the week I will change that. We
Speaker 3: will change that based on the weather, based on how
Speaker 3: we're seeing the players playing it, and you know, based
Speaker 3: on how the golf courses is being received and how
Speaker 3: it's been played.
Speaker 1: With the PGA Championship, how would you say a PGA
Speaker 1: Championship course is distinct from say a US Open or
Speaker 1: an Open Championship course.
Speaker 2: That two is another good question. You've got a lot
Speaker 2: of good questions here.
Speaker 3: Obviously we're different well compared to the US Open and
Speaker 3: the Open Championship, they too sort of rotate and have
Speaker 3: different courses each year, which we do.
Speaker 2: In the past.
Speaker 3: I answered that question that with that August date, we
Speaker 3: were often challenged agronomically, certainly in the Northeast or Midwest
Speaker 3: the cool season grasses, when you've got ninety plus degree
Speaker 3: temperatures of high humidity, we are certainly limited on green
Speaker 3: speed and firmness of greens. You know, with often summertime, rains, understorms,
Speaker 3: what have you. So the way our golf course, I
Speaker 3: would say probably eight times out of ten in the
Speaker 3: August day we were never able to bring the golf
Speaker 3: course to the conditions for example that AUGUSTA can do
Speaker 3: so in April in Georgia when it's seventy five degrees
Speaker 3: or sixty degrees. And you know, yeah, they too get
Speaker 3: rained occasionally, but not as often as we obviously, you know,
Speaker 3: I think eight out of twelve times we've had rain
Speaker 3: delays in August. Now we moved to May, I think
Speaker 3: you know that although we've now only had one one
Speaker 3: championship in May of beth Page, but that allowed us
Speaker 3: that the grass, the conditioning was so much healthier.
Speaker 2: In May and the Northeast and Midwest than in August.
Speaker 2: So that will it did.
Speaker 3: And will in the future I think allow us to
Speaker 3: you know, show different conditions and probably more challenging conditions.
Speaker 3: You're more likely to have wind in May date than
Speaker 3: we are in the August date, you.
Speaker 2: Know, generally speaking around the country.
Speaker 3: So what I would answer that question differently now than
Speaker 3: I did with our August date. But you know, I
Speaker 3: think we all try and do our own obviously links
Speaker 3: courses of the Open are totally different gain to parkland courses,
Speaker 3: which generally what we play. But I'd like to think
Speaker 3: that we set them up, you know, fairly and interestingly
Speaker 3: and challenge, you know, to challenge the best players in
Speaker 3: the world. And you know, each each golf course, each
Speaker 3: architect is different, so we have to sort of work
Speaker 3: within what those that golf course gives us and hopefully
Speaker 3: make it fun, challenging and you know, just as importantly
Speaker 3: exciting for not only the players, but for the spectators
Speaker 3: and the television.
Speaker 1: If you could have one course to set up, say
Speaker 1: that you haven't had a chance to host a major
Speaker 1: at yet. It could be a future site of yours,
Speaker 1: or it could be any site, any golf course, which
Speaker 1: what's a course that you'd love to set up for
Speaker 1: the best players, the best men or women to play.
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: I think you're right. I would say it's probably, you know,
Speaker 3: the courses that I've enjoyed playing the most, you know,
Speaker 3: many of which or some of which will I'll never
Speaker 3: be involved, probably with having championships out But you know,
Speaker 3: I'm say Royal Drnock in Scotland. I would say Cyprus
Speaker 3: Point Shinnecock. Would love to do a championship at Shinnecock
Speaker 3: National Golf Wings would be wonderful. Any great golf course
Speaker 3: in the country, Pine Valley. I'm not playing Pine Valley,
Speaker 3: but just you know, I've seen it on the film
Speaker 3: and just you know, the reputation that it has as
Speaker 3: a as a fun, exciting, challenging golf course would be
Speaker 3: fun to set up. So any course that you know
Speaker 3: is respected as being a great golf course, it would
Speaker 3: be fun to set up for the best players in
Speaker 3: the world to play.
Speaker 1: Does your setup mentality have Does it shift at all
Speaker 1: when you do the KPMG Women's PGA versus the you
Speaker 1: know ment PGA? Is Is there anything that you do
Speaker 1: differently for women's goth and men's goth from a setup standpoint?
Speaker 3: I think other than the obvious, I think that the
Speaker 3: same philosophy is very much in place in all the
Speaker 3: things we talked about, exactly the same.
Speaker 2: For the KPMG and for the Kitchen Aide Senior PGA.
Speaker 3: You know, obviously, the biggest adjustments are, you know, what
Speaker 3: teas are we using, what length are we playing in
Speaker 3: the courts, what height does the rough?
Speaker 2: How difficult is it.
Speaker 3: Based on you know, how they're able to hit the
Speaker 3: ball out of the rough and what height rough.
Speaker 2: And what the speed of the greens are.
Speaker 3: But that again is compared to what the green complexes
Speaker 3: offer or don't offer. And you know, you talk about
Speaker 3: the Kitchen Aid Senior PGA at Harbor Shaws, they have
Speaker 3: some of the most challenging greens complexes, you know, the
Speaker 3: I've ever seen. Jack Nicholas did a beautiful job doing it.
Speaker 3: When you first see them, you think, wow, these are crazy,
Speaker 3: fun and crazy. But the more I've been there and
Speaker 3: the more I've worked there, the.
Speaker 2: More interesting they are.
Speaker 3: And so long as you have the green speed right
Speaker 3: and you know, which is probably sort of middle speed,
Speaker 3: and I like to say, you can make it really fun,
Speaker 3: really interesting and really exciting and challenging for the best
Speaker 3: players in the world, the best senior players in the world.
Speaker 3: So you know, same for the KPNNG and the winds.
Speaker 3: I think it's bringing out all those factors, making it
Speaker 3: so that they can play it. It's not too long,
Speaker 3: not too short, and the exact same philosophy, just as
Speaker 3: it would be for again, the club tournament that you
Speaker 3: play this Saturday year club. I think the same philosophy
Speaker 3: if you if you put it in place, makes a
Speaker 3: lot of sense. You know how many people like cat
Speaker 3: internal out of bounds, So you know, one of my
Speaker 3: philosophers is, you know, unless you know you absolutely have to,
Speaker 3: don't have out of bounds. If you find the ball,
Speaker 3: go and play it. You know, some of the greatest
Speaker 3: stories in golf are from players playing out of strange places.
Speaker 2: And the UDA.
Speaker 3: We had a player in the Grand Slam play out
Speaker 3: of somebody's backyard, which is what the club do you?
Speaker 3: Sevy Biastereus in the Open Championship played out of the
Speaker 3: parking lot and we'll live in whatever seventy seven or
Speaker 3: whenever it was there.
Speaker 1: That's fun speak. A couple of years ago at Birkdale
Speaker 1: when he was over and he was like, I.
Speaker 2: Thought that was the greatest thing for golf.
Speaker 3: And I know some people said, well they should be
Speaker 3: out of bounds, but what it's part of the golf
Speaker 3: course and you know he's only didn't mean to hit
Speaker 3: it there, but that's sort of the fun and the
Speaker 3: challenge of how do you get it back to the
Speaker 3: hole from wherever you hit it.
Speaker 2: So the more you can do that again, the more fun,
Speaker 2: I think and enjoyable golf.
Speaker 1: Is the comment you made about Harbor Shores. I hadn't
Speaker 1: really thought about it, but they do have some very
Speaker 1: severe greens, lots of different tiers that provide you a
Speaker 1: lot of flexibility. The comment I found interesting was that
Speaker 1: got you know with those greens. I feel those types
Speaker 1: of greens are courses that the more you play, the
Speaker 1: more you understand them. And the same went for you
Speaker 1: with setting up them correct where you just learn every
Speaker 1: year you go back a little bit more and have
Speaker 1: different ideas that come about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said, My comment was more when I first
Speaker 3: saw it, you know, sort of the year beforehand, you
Speaker 3: know about not in your stomach.
Speaker 2: Well, why am I going to.
Speaker 3: Put the whole locations that all the players aren't going
Speaker 3: to be all up in arms all week about them.
Speaker 3: But again, that's why I think green speed is so critical.
Speaker 3: That's appropriate to those slopes on those green and by
Speaker 3: doing what you know, I feel was the right speed
Speaker 3: for those greens, it makes it a wonderful great test
Speaker 3: of golf and a fun test of golf. But just
Speaker 3: looking at the greens, you can take yourself out of
Speaker 3: the competition before you even start.
Speaker 2: To thinking, well, Lisa too, slope too should be it.
Speaker 3: But again, if the green speed are right, you can
Speaker 3: make them beautifully fair and yet challenging, and you've got
Speaker 3: to hit them into the right spot.
Speaker 1: Something that I think about and I haven't ever seen
Speaker 1: numbers on this that would prove one way or the other.
Speaker 1: But do you think a better test is slower greens
Speaker 1: with more slope in the in the putt or faster
Speaker 1: greens with less slope.
Speaker 3: Yeah, another great question, and there's a huge difference of
Speaker 3: opinion on this.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Many good players, most good players really want.
Speaker 2: To play quick greens.
Speaker 3: They feel that sort of golf course should be and
Speaker 3: that's how it should be set up. But as you stayed,
Speaker 3: or as is obvious, you certainly limit the number of
Speaker 3: whole locations that any green can then offer you based
Speaker 3: if you have the greens really quick. The alternative is
Speaker 3: if you have certainly slower greens that you know you
Speaker 3: don't you don't see very often day in day out
Speaker 3: on certainly untelevised golf, it gives you more opportunities to
Speaker 3: have a lot more whole locations on greens. And you know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people would also say that not necessarily.
Speaker 3: It's sometimes more difficult to hold parts on slower greens
Speaker 3: than on quick greens because you've really got to hit
Speaker 3: the ball a little harder, and maybe more of us
Speaker 3: show be as opposed to you know, trickling a ball
Speaker 3: along quick.
Speaker 2: Agree, So I don't know there's a right or wrong.
Speaker 3: So you can certainly look at the Open Championship where
Speaker 3: the green speed they have to keep them at a
Speaker 3: sort of a more middle of speed due to the
Speaker 3: the possibility of strong winds and the ball moving on
Speaker 3: the greens if they get them too quick. So you know,
Speaker 3: you look at the put it putting over there, and
Speaker 3: it's different. Again, there's no right and there's no wrong.
Speaker 3: I'd love at some point to be able to have
Speaker 3: our championship greens that were slow and really put whole
Speaker 3: locations up into slopes.
Speaker 2: But I'm not.
Speaker 3: Sure we're quite there yet, and that would be certainly
Speaker 3: taking away from the norm. I'm not sure we're there
Speaker 3: yet a major championship to do it, but you never know.
Speaker 3: Philosopher's changed and things change over time. It would be
Speaker 3: interesting to see if you had, you know, greens, if
Speaker 3: you look in the history books up until you know
Speaker 3: the fifties or sixties, greens were seven or eight on
Speaker 3: the stimp meter and very slow, and it's sort of
Speaker 3: in some ways, it'd be fun to go back and see,
Speaker 3: you know what that would look like today. You certainly
Speaker 3: have healthier grass of more whole locations and healthier greens
Speaker 3: throughout the country if everyone did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some it might push some clubs to save
Speaker 1: some money and not redo the really cool severe green
Speaker 1: on their property that everybody complains about the ball rolling
Speaker 1: off of when you could just mow the grass a
Speaker 1: little higher.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly right, exactly right.
Speaker 1: I want to get you out of here, but with
Speaker 1: a couple, you know, lighter questions on the back end here,
Speaker 1: What what what feature I guess about Harding Park should
Speaker 1: viewers is one thing that you would love viewers to
Speaker 1: pay attention for or you know notice that you know,
Speaker 1: you might think it's a little subtle or not easy
Speaker 1: to discern. What was one thing that you would point
Speaker 1: out to him to pay attention to.
Speaker 3: Probably the shorter power fours, you know, and the potential
Speaker 3: interest and excitement there. I'm not sure it's not necessarily subtle,
Speaker 3: but it's I'm hoping it'll be fun to see in
Speaker 3: sixteen I think will be because again you've got a
Speaker 3: cypress tree sort of right online to the hole unless
Speaker 3: you want to hit a fade into the green. But
Speaker 3: you've got lake missaid on the left of the hole,
Speaker 3: so if it doesn't fade, and if you're hitting it
Speaker 3: straight or you hook it, you're.
Speaker 2: In the lake. The said potentially hitting a driver.
Speaker 3: So and that compared to the player that chooses not
Speaker 3: to take you on lays up to one hundred or
Speaker 3: whatever his best yardage is, wedges In gets a birdy
Speaker 3: And just that thought process, even though from the back
Speaker 3: to I think only three thirty from the back team,
Speaker 3: so as the dog legs so that the straight carry
Speaker 3: the number of players may well go for it from
Speaker 3: the back of the back t even before we move
Speaker 3: it up a few yards. So just how that plays
Speaker 3: I think will be fun to watch every round, both
Speaker 3: from the back team and if we move it up
Speaker 3: the team.
Speaker 1: And obviously you're not on the ground yet, you're going
Speaker 1: there shortly after, you know, in a day or two,
Speaker 1: and you have no clue what the weather's going to be.
Speaker 1: Can we get a prediction for winning score from you?
Speaker 2: Well? No, to me, that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I think it's whatever the best players want it to be,
Speaker 3: and hopefully we set it up. I think it does
Speaker 3: no win, they'll certainly score well because they're the best players.
Speaker 2: In the world. I would hope that if you.
Speaker 3: Give the best players in the world good conditions with
Speaker 3: no win, they should score well. So but if we
Speaker 3: get a twenty thirty mile an hour win one or
Speaker 3: more of the days, then just like any golf course,
Speaker 3: it's going to be tough.
Speaker 2: It'll be challenging.
Speaker 3: But I think I'm more hopeful that the players enjoy
Speaker 3: the test, enjoy the challenge. Hopefully there's lots of birdies,
Speaker 3: some eagles and boguis and double boguies that make it
Speaker 3: exciting and fun to watch and fun for the players
Speaker 3: and the CADI is to play, because that ultimately is
Speaker 3: if that's the case, I always say, always want people
Speaker 3: to come away from there saying, wow, that was sort
Speaker 3: of fun and I enjoyed playing even if I didn't
Speaker 3: play well. It was a good challenge and it was
Speaker 3: there and yeah, I didn't play well, but that's okay.
Speaker 3: It was a fun week.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, that's our aim. Despite all that's going on in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 3: That would be our aim as the players and caddies
Speaker 3: leave Harding Power Great.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for the time, Carrie, and really looking
Speaker 1: forward to watching the PGA in a couple of weeks here.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me look forward to it too,
Speaker 3: and I hope everyone enjoys enjoys watching the championship, and
Speaker 3: I hope we have a three whole playoffs to determine
Speaker 3: the weather.
Speaker 2: M