WEBVTT - Can One Partner Give You Everything? 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:02.960 We know why we're here. We're just going to have 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.840 knockout sex for the next couple of hours and then 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.440 you know, Patmian, Yeah, and I'll leave the hotel. And 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:18.760 I albeit, I thought that was just the ticket. This 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:23.360 is she wants more. I'm your host, Joe Piazza. Last 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.720 week we heard from Katie. Katie had been shamed for 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.720 her affair and forced to lead behind her any higher 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.800 life and moved to a new city. This week, we're 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.240 going to be hearing from Monique. Monique isn't her real name, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.720 but everything she told me is true. And I promised 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.400 that Monique is going to make you rethink almost everything 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.440 that you think you know about women, their sexual desires 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:52.280 and monogamy. Let's just say you like to play tennis, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.120 and you're really good at it, like really good, and 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.520 at some point you go to your partner and you say, 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.600 you know what, I really need to a tennis with 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.039 somebody who plays tennis at my lovel one. Nobody would say, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.760 oh no, don't go find that person. You'd be like, yeah, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.760 I probably get it. You know, you love this, this 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.760 is one of your favorite things in the whole world. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.800 Go find somebody who's into it as you are. If 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.920 you take out tennis and say really fun, really great sex, yeah, 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:25.960 then suddenly it's not the same kind of activity. In 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:30.440 American culture, we don't really accept non monogamous relationships, and 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.600 we also expect one partner to fulfill absolutely all of 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:45.959 our needs financial partner, lover, intellectual, equal, friend, soulmate, person 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.960 to watch all of our television shows with. But that 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.240 notion of one person fulfilling every single thing that we 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.160 need in life, checking off every single one of our 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.800 boxes does not exist in most other parts of the world. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.960 For sample, in France, were more than half of the 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.040 population find it morally acceptable for married people to have affairs. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:09.960 When I was doing research for my book How to 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:14.320 Be Married, I interviewed dozens of frenchwomen about monogamy and 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.680 they told me something that I still think about seven 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.000 years after I wrote that book. They said that just 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.520 having the option of being with another man, and the 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.160 fact that their husbands or their long term boyfriends also 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.600 had the option to be with another woman, that gave 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.960 them both a sense of freedom and agency that we 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.960 don't always feel in our marriages in the United States. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.400 But before we get into how having an affair shifted 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.880 Monique's understanding of monogamy. I wanted to find out why 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.720 she decided to cheat on her husband in the first place. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.440 Tell me a little bit about when you decided to 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.720 first start having an affair. How did that come about? 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.280 I mean my mid fifties. I have two children, they 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.480 are pretty much grown, and I have been married this 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:12.880 year thirty years. There was one evening where we had 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.880 had some wine and started talking and I kind of 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.239 trotted out my bucket list, like I thought, Hey, the 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.560 kids are in a good place. When you have small children, 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.360 typically your intimate relationship takes a little bit of a 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:32.040 back seat. So I was thinking, oh, now's the time. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.760 Right here. We are in northern California and it's a 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:40.120 very open and accepting place. I was thinking there might 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:45.440 be some unconventional animus that we could pursue. I had 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:50.200 had a really wonderful threesome when I was in college, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.440 and I thought that that would be something that I 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.360 would like to repeat. You know, it was fun being 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.200 with a woman, and I thought, you know, and in 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:01.920 his right mind is going to turn down a woman 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.200 telling him, Yeah, I'd really like to bring another woman 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.000 into our bed. But you know, he just wasn't interested. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.600 I just wanted to dispoisse things up. And the response 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:18.279 I got was kind of like why Monique was so 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.880 disappointed by her husband's answer. She was craving something different, 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:28.120 something more exciting, something passionate, especially after having her kids 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.600 and then finally getting back in touch with her body. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.440 But her husband, it was just content with the status quo. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.440 And even though Monique had grown up Catholic in an 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.600 area where everyone just accepted monogamy was the only thing 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.640 that you could do, she was starting to get more 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:51.000 exposed to people with less traditional lifestyles. So Monique started 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.400 looking for what else was out there. I guess heard 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.640 of me was kind of looking to see if any 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.920 of the things that I was into we're actually available, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.040 And of course, you know that's just naive. You go 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.560 online and of course anything you're into is available. So 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.080 it was just a matter I think, then, of deciding 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.880 to take an opportunity. So you went online, How do 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.200 you even start when you go online? And then what 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.800 made you finally take the plunge and do it the 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.480 first time? So you know, back in the day, it 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.080 was craigslist. You know, you could go on craigslist and 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.800 you could find anything, you know, from adult nursing relationship 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.240 to garden furniture, I mean really whatever you needed, and 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.839 you could find it on Craigslist. I got I got 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.960 a great patio set, see and I sold mine. So 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.680 I think that was when I just, you know, I 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.400 had been one of the things that I had kind 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:56.320 of broached with my spouse was besides the three way, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.440 I'd always been kind of loosely interested and BDSM And 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.919 I know that that's very specific and that you know, 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.760 either you're into it or you're not, But that was 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.800 kind of where I started. So I saw, you know, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.080 that was obviously an easy thing, but I also found, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.440 you know, there was this couple looking for a unicorn. 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.120 We explained to me what a unicorn is. A unicorn 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.200 is basically somebody who comes in with a couple's looking 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.120 for a third and I think that the tougher thing 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.800 is often it's easier to find a woman who's willing 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.599 to play with the guy but not the woman, So 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.080 to find somebody who's into both sides of the couple 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.440 is a little bit harder, Hence the unicorn. But anyway, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.560 I decided to answer this ad and I met this 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.480 couple and I thought they were great, and then it 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.320 petered out, so that actually never happened, but I think 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.480 in my mind that kind of opened the door where 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.520 I was just like, Okay, this is going to have 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.320 to be something you do. So even though her first 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.400 attempt failed, Monique could not get this out of our head, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.240 and she tried Craigslist again. This time she crafted a 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.240 really good ad and got what she thought was the 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:24.160 perfect response. So, you know, we kept corresponding and he 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.600 was single and initially not at all on board. He 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.960 wasn't going for a married woman. He was looking for 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.760 a single person. But then at some point we decided 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.800 to have a beer together that was very low key, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.800 and you know, after that we met again, and then 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:48.400 at some point it happened. Was kind of unplanned, I think, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:53.160 because he had always said he wasn't interested in a 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.600 married woman, and you know, at that point, I wasn't 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.480 even really sure what this saw about. But you know, 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.680 like I said, once you kind of opened your mind 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:08.280 to the possibility, there must have been a certain electricity there. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.920 And he was a lot more experienced, so that was 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:20.520 really exciting. And I saw this person for twelve years, 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.640 twelve years. That's a long time. How did you keep 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.960 it separate from what are the logistics? How do you talk? 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:31.920 How do you meet? How do you keep everything a secret? 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.520 I think the trick is that sounds nasty in a 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:41.000 way because I think most people associate affairs with like 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.920 crazy passion. But it really wasn't like that. It was 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:52.120 pretty calculated. We kept everything The email really depended a 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.520 lot on his work schedule and availability at the time. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.520 I was working part time, and I would go down 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.319 and see him, but usually during the day and definitely 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.960 never anywhere near where either of us lived, and I 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.280 never went to his house. We never came to mind, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.960 I think, despite the fact that we were doing this 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.200 on enough for twelve years. I bet you if you 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.839 asked him what are her children's names, he wouldn't know. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.880 So it was very compartmentalized. It was you were able 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.559 to be like, this is sex and my marriage is 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.800 something else. Yeah, you know, and often I've actually said 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.559 this to friends of mine. You know. The weird thing 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.480 about monogamy is it's like saying red is your favorite color, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.679 and then you have to wear red and only red 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.480 for the rest of your days. What if I wake 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.120 up and I feel like wearing yellow is that me? 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.240 And red isn't my favorite color anymore? No, of course not. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.000 And you would think that somebody was either a lunatic 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.400 or an artist if they were the same color every 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.880 single day, or ate the same food like I only 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.280 eat proccoli, you would think they're a lunatic or a toddler. Really, 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.760 my son only it's chicken nuggets, and I do think 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.880 he is a lunatic. Yeah, well, you know, you're exactly right. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.120 But at that point you're telling your kids, oh, you know, 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.280 just take a bite, just try it, because you want 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.319 them to have a broad experience of life. And this 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.440 is the thing. You kind of sit there and you 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.000 look back and you think, well, yes, I'm married and 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.600 I raised two children. There's some lovely stability that goes 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.560 with that. But you do, as a grown up close 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.080 yourself off to a lot of experiences. Different people bring 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.680 different things to the table, and it's just like I 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.440 just happen to really like a full table. Within the 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.400 last fifty years, there's been the shift that we need 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:57.280 to get absolutely everything from our monogamous partner. This idea 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.400 that our partners should complete us, our partners should make 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:06.920 us better people. That's doctor Ashley Thompson. Doctor Thompson is 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.679 the director of the Sexuality and Relationships Science Lab at 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.920 the University of Minnesota, Duluth. She's a sex professor and 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:19.640 a really good one. I asked doctor Thompson what the research, 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:25.199 the actual research says about monogamy and if it's really 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.280 possible for one partner to satisfy all of our needs. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.360 We have a variety of needs in our relationship. If 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.440 all of your needs are met but one, let's say 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.600 emotional needs aren't being met, I would still argue that 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.160 you're in a pretty damn good relationship if the majority 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.480 of your needs are being met. But that's looked at 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.079 negatively by society, right, and so I would argue that 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.800 as a society, we need to shift these ideas about 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.440 getting everything from a partner and normalizing that it's okay 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.560 to go to somebody else for emotional fulfillment whatever those 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.320 needs might be, and every other need, but the sexual 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.000 need is being met by your partner. Again, I would say, 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.320 you're doing pretty great. But sex again, is this taboo 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.080 area that, oh, this person's having to go outside of 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.080 the relationship to get their sexual needs met. Oh what 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.120 an awful human right, so taboo, so terrible. It's like, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.840 we're placing such pressure on our partner that, let's be honest, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.560 nobody can fulfill every single one of our needs. Like 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:32.240 the Jerry McGuire, You complete me, Yes, that's exactly it. 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:40.679 Jerry McGuire remember that movie. I remember when I first 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:46.400 thought as a very impressionable teenager or twenty something, and 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:52.319 I thought that line was so freaking stupid. Of course, 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.840 one person isn't going to complete me. And that is why, 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.600 since I got married seven years ago, I'll have male 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.800 friends and female friends and work colleagues and all sorts 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.840 of people that I go to besides my husband for 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.360 fun and yeah, occasional bitching about the man that I'm 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:20.079 married to. But I've got to say, I've never considered 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.720 going outside of my marriage to find sex, to find 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.320 different kinds of sex, maybe even better sex. But I 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.360 think I haven't thought about it because sex is this 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:36.840 huge cultural taboo. But maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe finding 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.560 a different sexual partner is just like Monique said, it's 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.800 just like going out there and finding someone else to 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:47.560 play tennis with. Or is that taking things too far? 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.680 We'll find out more. After a quick break, when we 0:13:51.760 --> 0:14:04.280 learn more about monique story, we're back what she wants more. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.240 Monique's twelve year affair opened her up to a lot 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.680 more sexual experimentation, and once she opened that door, it 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.800 was impossible to shut it again. There wasn't a lot 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.440 that was out of bounds. So that was really exciting. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.360 I'd had one aboordive attempt at anal sex when I 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.240 was a young person, but I had kind of wanted 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.840 to try it again and my husband was just like, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.200 no way, I'm not doing that, And I really wanted 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.600 to find out what it was like. You know, that 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.280 was exciting. Did he do the BDSM that you were 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.680 curious about? No, that was someone else. You know, this 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.560 guy that I was with for twelve years. He was 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.160 by far and away and not the only person that 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.600 I hooked up with in that time. Every once in 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.880 a while, other opportunities would present them thousand Once you've 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.440 done it at once, now it's just like, hmm, do 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.480 I really want to pass up on that? So I 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.360 did actually meet a couple and we did involve BD sent. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.040 The whole scene was a birthday present for a partner 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.160 could have been listening very closely to some of the 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.960 fantasies that she had related and decided that it was 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.960 a high time to make some of them happen. So 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.360 he was looking for a third person for them. She 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.040 wanted to submit to a woman, and she wanted like 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.200 a kind of Victorian scene. So you know, there was 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:42.520 a costume and boots and the strap on and a 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.840 good time was had by all. But after that, you know, 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.080 it was like, gee, that was fun, thanks a lot, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.720 and that was it. Like we didn't see each other 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.440 again after that. Maybe they did other things with other 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:59.000 people and it was wonderful. And this is the thing 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.160 I feel like some of the people that I've been 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:06.080 with a lot of it is just the opportunity to 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.760 meet on an intimate level the kind of person that 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:16.240 I would probably not otherwise encountering. For example, I went 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:21.760 on a conference and met at the bar a very 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.080 much younger man in his twenties, and at that point 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.000 I was fifty, and you know, we start talking. That's 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.200 how I know I knew how old he was. But 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:36.200 he seemed extremely self possessed, you know, really pulled together, intelligent. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.280 We're having this nice conversation because what else am I 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.040 going to do on there about myself anyway, And at 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.640 some point I'm thinking, Jesus, guy's flirting with me, and 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.240 of course my fifty year old brain is going, yeah, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.640 I know, he just said he was twenty seventy. I'm 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.440 just imagining things. But I'm like, are you flirting with me? 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.760 And it's like, god, yeah, you know, it's just like 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.720 I'm trying, and I'm like, right, I've been very blocker 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:07.359 than you've been alive, and he's just like, so, you know, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.280 that kind of adventurousness is really a turn on for me. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.119 And we did end up hooking up, and it was 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.440 really like, when else am I ever going to interact 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.720 with somebody that age? You know, those are my children's friends, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.359 and that would be weird and inappropriate. So we you know, 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.439 we ended up spending the weekend together. He picked my 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:33.159 brains about being an older woman and with lots of experience, 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.679 and we talked about all sorts of stuff, and after that, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.240 I ended up googling him later, just like cool, Okay, 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.160 that's interesting. He actually turned out to be that accomplished 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.240 and I'm so glad we crossed paths. I could have 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.639 said no to that experience just because I wouldn't have 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.040 gained so many interesting insights. It didn't harm him, it 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.359 didn't harm me. I could have passed up on something 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:03.600 really great for no good reason. So a lot of 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.600 it is about more than sex. It's expanding your world, 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.960 it's meeting new people. Yeah, I think so. I don't 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.000 know that that was what I was looking for when 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.320 I started, but that has been a wonderful side effect. 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.560 I think people don't go into it necessarily thinking that. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.600 I think sex, probably, but it's the number one driver. 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.640 You've been doing this so long, it's hard to say 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.640 exactly what it was that away. Do you think your 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.760 marriage is better now for you having explored things side 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.399 of your marriage? Oh my god. Yeah. You know. I 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.439 wanted things that my spouse wasn't interested in, And I 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.119 think that just the fact that I feel fulfilled and 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:47.159 I'm not nagging my spouse for things that he's not 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.240 interested or obligated to give me, I think that's good. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.240 You know, I think if you scratch the service of 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.080 a lot of marriages, you'd see that you don't want 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.760 to shame your partner or hurt that. And it's hard 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.959 to explain that it really isn't about them, but it 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.840 really isn't. And I really think for women, especially when 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.120 your kids are really little, everybody's on you all the time, 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.760 and that's lovely, but I think it can be crazy making. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.480 And I just found reserving the time that I spent 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:27.840 in my affair it was very nurturing for me in 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.719 that it really helped me recharge my batteries as a person, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.160 independent of my role as a mother or a wife, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.159 or way journer, you know, all these other halts that 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:46.159 I wore. This was just for me. I often wonder, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.720 and I know slur on therapy. Therapy is great, it 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.560 truly helped people, But sometimes I wonder if some of 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.760 the things that you want from a therapist, like somebody 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.640 in a safe space who's going to listen to you, 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.040 you can get a lot of that from an affair 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.199 if you choose the right person, because that person is 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.520 also not necessarily at all involved in your life, so 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.160 they can be quite dispassionate when it comes to things 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.800 like that. And also often, like the girlfriends that I've 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:19.880 had that have spent the longest in therapy, a lot 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.520 of it was kind of esteem issues, and it's like, well, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:29.439 you know, having a lover can definitely give you a 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.400 boost in that respect. I mean, I feel like I'm 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.200 a pretty self confident person to begin with, but that 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.119 doesn't hurt either. Plus, nothing like orgasm can make a 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:45.320 woman's serene. Women want to feel and need to feel 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:52.359 like they're desirable and their bodies are like amazing and 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:57.320 they're sexy, and so yeah, having somebody who gives you 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.439 all of that, who gives you that feeling, it's addictive, 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:06.560 it's intoxicating. That's doctor Gail Saltz. She's a psychiatrist, best 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:12.080 selling author, columnist, podcast host, and TV commentator. Get this 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.960 all of the things. I asked her if it was 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.040 common for women to feel a loss of identity, like 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.800 Monique says, after marriage and kids. There are definitely joys 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.800 and peaks of joy in having children, but it's stressful 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.919 and it increases your responsibility exponentially in every sort of way. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.159 And the lion's share of that generally falls on women. 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.680 So you know, you're happy, you met someone, you got married. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.320 It's wonderful, it's wonderful. And now what while at least 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:48.040 seventy percent of everything housework, taking care of your life 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:52.280 and his life or her life and children, it ends 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:57.120 up being you. A lot of women might say it's 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:03.399 hard to be like I'm fulfilled while I'm chronically underslept 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:09.440 doing some things that don't actually feel that glorified, like vacuuming, 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.320 and then they are stuck in it, like they already 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.240 established their pattern and it's really hard to back out of. 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:21.359 And how can having an affair change that for a woman, 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.200 a woman who is suck in that chronic stress cycle, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.960 who has lost her sense of identity, Yeah, hugely, because 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.720 you know, instead of thinking about vacuuming or having a 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.960 baby hang off a boob while she mops, thinking of 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.040 that image of herself, she's thinking about being like a 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.600 goddess in bed, like he thinks I'm the hottest thing. 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:50.400 So women insects do a tremendous amount of self observation, 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:57.600 and desire comes for women from a great amount of 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:03.320 self observing imagining whoever is doing it to them, imagining 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:08.880 themselves through that person's eyes. So if you're thinking like, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.720 I'm exhausted, I don't really feel like doing anything with 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.480 you my partner. Ps, I'm being touched all day by 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.119 little kids, and so I'm really pretty touched out and 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.159 it's the same old Samuel, and so it doesn't have 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.000 that excitement for me having someone new who's just like, please, 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:28.240 you got to find a way to be with me. 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:34.040 So I'm exciting. I find you exciting. You see yourself 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.840 through me. Now we're like kind of in a frenzy. 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:43.000 It's secret, it's risky. That totally increases the excitement a 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:49.600 million percent. And so you might be mopping and having 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:51.600 kids on your hip that you're thinking about this other 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:56.399 thing and it's making things better. Stay with us because 0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:58.639 after the break, we're going to learn all about some 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:11.320 of Monique's most opening sexual experiences. You're listening. She wants more. 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:17.000 What are some of the best, most fun, most eye 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.720 opening sexual experiences that you've had since she started doing this. 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:26.120 So one that was really kind of crazy, that very 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:31.000 young person that I was telling him about was a 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:36.000 scientist in engineering, so somebody who was deeply committed to 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:40.640 optimizing the experience, very inventive in a kind of Tinkerer 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:46.880 sort of way. So he loved like machines, so toys 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.680 on some level, our machines, right. He also mcgi wrote 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:54.000 a bunch of sex toys from stuff You bought at Staples. 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.440 What Yeah, so like, what what can you what can 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.000 you buy a Staples? You can buy a lot of 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:06.080 interesting clips for one, you know, and I'm just like, hmm, okay. 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:12.040 He bought this like bendible ruler, but he kind of 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:16.080 bent it into shape and it was like phenomenal. It 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:18.879 was the craziest thing. So it's that kind of stuff 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:22.040 like I would never go to Staples thinking, oh, what 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.560 can I buy here that I can use as a 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:29.760 sex toy? But this guy was that guy. He kind 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.280 of thought about these things like they were puzzles, Like 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.080 if I can make her come once, how do I 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:37.919 make her come like ten times? Like this increase the 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.960 you know, like it's just a better delivery. And you 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:46.359 know that was amazing somebody who's actually sitting there thinking 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:50.920 about this. I love the optimization. Do you think your 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:58.040 husband knows Yeah? Really, why do you think that just 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.439 kind of oblique remarks? Use man the other things. I 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.320 think he knows me very well. I mean that's why 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:07.159 we've had such a good marriage for so long. And 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:12.200 I was always a very very sexual person. He's too 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:15.520 smart to think that all of that is just suddenly 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:20.159 sublimated when you get married, so I think that he 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.840 has wisely decided as long as his needs are being met, 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:26.600 you know, like my private life is my private life, 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:30.000 and I think that that's actually a pretty healthy attitude. 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:35.000 The question that nobody ever asks is, Okay, imagine this 0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:39.840