Speaker 1: We know why we're here. We're just going to have
Speaker 1: knockout sex for the next couple of hours and then
Speaker 1: you know, Patmian, Yeah, and I'll leave the hotel. And
Speaker 1: I albeit, I thought that was just the ticket. This
Speaker 1: is she wants more. I'm your host, Joe Piazza. Last
Speaker 1: week we heard from Katie. Katie had been shamed for
Speaker 1: her affair and forced to lead behind her any higher
Speaker 1: life and moved to a new city. This week, we're
Speaker 1: going to be hearing from Monique. Monique isn't her real name,
Speaker 1: but everything she told me is true. And I promised
Speaker 1: that Monique is going to make you rethink almost everything
Speaker 1: that you think you know about women, their sexual desires
Speaker 1: and monogamy. Let's just say you like to play tennis,
Speaker 1: and you're really good at it, like really good, and
Speaker 1: at some point you go to your partner and you say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I really need to a tennis with
Speaker 1: somebody who plays tennis at my lovel one. Nobody would say,
Speaker 1: oh no, don't go find that person. You'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I probably get it. You know, you love this, this
Speaker 1: is one of your favorite things in the whole world.
Speaker 1: Go find somebody who's into it as you are. If
Speaker 1: you take out tennis and say really fun, really great sex, yeah,
Speaker 1: then suddenly it's not the same kind of activity. In
Speaker 1: American culture, we don't really accept non monogamous relationships, and
Speaker 1: we also expect one partner to fulfill absolutely all of
Speaker 1: our needs financial partner, lover, intellectual, equal, friend, soulmate, person
Speaker 1: to watch all of our television shows with. But that
Speaker 1: notion of one person fulfilling every single thing that we
Speaker 1: need in life, checking off every single one of our
Speaker 1: boxes does not exist in most other parts of the world.
Speaker 1: For sample, in France, were more than half of the
Speaker 1: population find it morally acceptable for married people to have affairs.
Speaker 1: When I was doing research for my book How to
Speaker 1: Be Married, I interviewed dozens of frenchwomen about monogamy and
Speaker 1: they told me something that I still think about seven
Speaker 1: years after I wrote that book. They said that just
Speaker 1: having the option of being with another man, and the
Speaker 1: fact that their husbands or their long term boyfriends also
Speaker 1: had the option to be with another woman, that gave
Speaker 1: them both a sense of freedom and agency that we
Speaker 1: don't always feel in our marriages in the United States.
Speaker 1: But before we get into how having an affair shifted
Speaker 1: Monique's understanding of monogamy. I wanted to find out why
Speaker 1: she decided to cheat on her husband in the first place.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about when you decided to
Speaker 1: first start having an affair. How did that come about?
Speaker 1: I mean my mid fifties. I have two children, they
Speaker 1: are pretty much grown, and I have been married this
Speaker 1: year thirty years. There was one evening where we had
Speaker 1: had some wine and started talking and I kind of
Speaker 1: trotted out my bucket list, like I thought, Hey, the
Speaker 1: kids are in a good place. When you have small children,
Speaker 1: typically your intimate relationship takes a little bit of a
Speaker 1: back seat. So I was thinking, oh, now's the time.
Speaker 1: Right here. We are in northern California and it's a
Speaker 1: very open and accepting place. I was thinking there might
Speaker 1: be some unconventional animus that we could pursue. I had
Speaker 1: had a really wonderful threesome when I was in college,
Speaker 1: and I thought that that would be something that I
Speaker 1: would like to repeat. You know, it was fun being
Speaker 1: with a woman, and I thought, you know, and in
Speaker 1: his right mind is going to turn down a woman
Speaker 1: telling him, Yeah, I'd really like to bring another woman
Speaker 1: into our bed. But you know, he just wasn't interested.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to dispoisse things up. And the response
Speaker 1: I got was kind of like why Monique was so
Speaker 1: disappointed by her husband's answer. She was craving something different,
Speaker 1: something more exciting, something passionate, especially after having her kids
Speaker 1: and then finally getting back in touch with her body.
Speaker 1: But her husband, it was just content with the status quo.
Speaker 1: And even though Monique had grown up Catholic in an
Speaker 1: area where everyone just accepted monogamy was the only thing
Speaker 1: that you could do, she was starting to get more
Speaker 1: exposed to people with less traditional lifestyles. So Monique started
Speaker 1: looking for what else was out there. I guess heard
Speaker 1: of me was kind of looking to see if any
Speaker 1: of the things that I was into we're actually available,
Speaker 1: And of course, you know that's just naive. You go
Speaker 1: online and of course anything you're into is available. So
Speaker 1: it was just a matter I think, then, of deciding
Speaker 1: to take an opportunity. So you went online, How do
Speaker 1: you even start when you go online? And then what
Speaker 1: made you finally take the plunge and do it the
Speaker 1: first time? So you know, back in the day, it
Speaker 1: was craigslist. You know, you could go on craigslist and
Speaker 1: you could find anything, you know, from adult nursing relationship
Speaker 1: to garden furniture, I mean really whatever you needed, and
Speaker 1: you could find it on Craigslist. I got I got
Speaker 1: a great patio set, see and I sold mine. So
Speaker 1: I think that was when I just, you know, I
Speaker 1: had been one of the things that I had kind
Speaker 1: of broached with my spouse was besides the three way,
Speaker 1: I'd always been kind of loosely interested and BDSM And
Speaker 1: I know that that's very specific and that you know,
Speaker 1: either you're into it or you're not, But that was
Speaker 1: kind of where I started. So I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: that was obviously an easy thing, but I also found,
Speaker 1: you know, there was this couple looking for a unicorn.
Speaker 1: We explained to me what a unicorn is. A unicorn
Speaker 1: is basically somebody who comes in with a couple's looking
Speaker 1: for a third and I think that the tougher thing
Speaker 1: is often it's easier to find a woman who's willing
Speaker 1: to play with the guy but not the woman, So
Speaker 1: to find somebody who's into both sides of the couple
Speaker 1: is a little bit harder, Hence the unicorn. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I decided to answer this ad and I met this
Speaker 1: couple and I thought they were great, and then it
Speaker 1: petered out, so that actually never happened, but I think
Speaker 1: in my mind that kind of opened the door where
Speaker 1: I was just like, Okay, this is going to have
Speaker 1: to be something you do. So even though her first
Speaker 1: attempt failed, Monique could not get this out of our head,
Speaker 1: and she tried Craigslist again. This time she crafted a
Speaker 1: really good ad and got what she thought was the
Speaker 1: perfect response. So, you know, we kept corresponding and he
Speaker 1: was single and initially not at all on board. He
Speaker 1: wasn't going for a married woman. He was looking for
Speaker 1: a single person. But then at some point we decided
Speaker 1: to have a beer together that was very low key,
Speaker 1: and you know, after that we met again, and then
Speaker 1: at some point it happened. Was kind of unplanned, I think,
Speaker 1: because he had always said he wasn't interested in a
Speaker 1: married woman, and you know, at that point, I wasn't
Speaker 1: even really sure what this saw about. But you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, once you kind of opened your mind
Speaker 1: to the possibility, there must have been a certain electricity there.
Speaker 1: And he was a lot more experienced, so that was
Speaker 1: really exciting. And I saw this person for twelve years,
Speaker 1: twelve years. That's a long time. How did you keep
Speaker 1: it separate from what are the logistics? How do you talk?
Speaker 1: How do you meet? How do you keep everything a secret?
Speaker 1: I think the trick is that sounds nasty in a
Speaker 1: way because I think most people associate affairs with like
Speaker 1: crazy passion. But it really wasn't like that. It was
Speaker 1: pretty calculated. We kept everything The email really depended a
Speaker 1: lot on his work schedule and availability at the time.
Speaker 1: I was working part time, and I would go down
Speaker 1: and see him, but usually during the day and definitely
Speaker 1: never anywhere near where either of us lived, and I
Speaker 1: never went to his house. We never came to mind,
Speaker 1: I think, despite the fact that we were doing this
Speaker 1: on enough for twelve years. I bet you if you
Speaker 1: asked him what are her children's names, he wouldn't know.
Speaker 1: So it was very compartmentalized. It was you were able
Speaker 1: to be like, this is sex and my marriage is
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, you know, and often I've actually said
Speaker 1: this to friends of mine. You know. The weird thing
Speaker 1: about monogamy is it's like saying red is your favorite color,
Speaker 1: and then you have to wear red and only red
Speaker 1: for the rest of your days. What if I wake
Speaker 1: up and I feel like wearing yellow is that me?
Speaker 1: And red isn't my favorite color anymore? No, of course not.
Speaker 1: And you would think that somebody was either a lunatic
Speaker 1: or an artist if they were the same color every
Speaker 1: single day, or ate the same food like I only
Speaker 1: eat proccoli, you would think they're a lunatic or a toddler. Really,
Speaker 1: my son only it's chicken nuggets, and I do think
Speaker 1: he is a lunatic. Yeah, well, you know, you're exactly right.
Speaker 1: But at that point you're telling your kids, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: just take a bite, just try it, because you want
Speaker 1: them to have a broad experience of life. And this
Speaker 1: is the thing. You kind of sit there and you
Speaker 1: look back and you think, well, yes, I'm married and
Speaker 1: I raised two children. There's some lovely stability that goes
Speaker 1: with that. But you do, as a grown up close
Speaker 1: yourself off to a lot of experiences. Different people bring
Speaker 1: different things to the table, and it's just like I
Speaker 1: just happen to really like a full table. Within the
Speaker 1: last fifty years, there's been the shift that we need
Speaker 1: to get absolutely everything from our monogamous partner. This idea
Speaker 1: that our partners should complete us, our partners should make
Speaker 1: us better people. That's doctor Ashley Thompson. Doctor Thompson is
Speaker 1: the director of the Sexuality and Relationships Science Lab at
Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota, Duluth. She's a sex professor and
Speaker 1: a really good one. I asked doctor Thompson what the research,
Speaker 1: the actual research says about monogamy and if it's really
Speaker 1: possible for one partner to satisfy all of our needs.
Speaker 1: We have a variety of needs in our relationship. If
Speaker 1: all of your needs are met but one, let's say
Speaker 1: emotional needs aren't being met, I would still argue that
Speaker 1: you're in a pretty damn good relationship if the majority
Speaker 1: of your needs are being met. But that's looked at
Speaker 1: negatively by society, right, and so I would argue that
Speaker 1: as a society, we need to shift these ideas about
Speaker 1: getting everything from a partner and normalizing that it's okay
Speaker 1: to go to somebody else for emotional fulfillment whatever those
Speaker 1: needs might be, and every other need, but the sexual
Speaker 1: need is being met by your partner. Again, I would say,
Speaker 1: you're doing pretty great. But sex again, is this taboo
Speaker 1: area that, oh, this person's having to go outside of
Speaker 1: the relationship to get their sexual needs met. Oh what
Speaker 1: an awful human right, so taboo, so terrible. It's like,
Speaker 1: we're placing such pressure on our partner that, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: nobody can fulfill every single one of our needs. Like
Speaker 1: the Jerry McGuire, You complete me, Yes, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1: Jerry McGuire remember that movie. I remember when I first
Speaker 1: thought as a very impressionable teenager or twenty something, and
Speaker 1: I thought that line was so freaking stupid. Of course,
Speaker 1: one person isn't going to complete me. And that is why,
Speaker 1: since I got married seven years ago, I'll have male
Speaker 1: friends and female friends and work colleagues and all sorts
Speaker 1: of people that I go to besides my husband for
Speaker 1: fun and yeah, occasional bitching about the man that I'm
Speaker 1: married to. But I've got to say, I've never considered
Speaker 1: going outside of my marriage to find sex, to find
Speaker 1: different kinds of sex, maybe even better sex. But I
Speaker 1: think I haven't thought about it because sex is this
Speaker 1: huge cultural taboo. But maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe finding
Speaker 1: a different sexual partner is just like Monique said, it's
Speaker 1: just like going out there and finding someone else to
Speaker 1: play tennis with. Or is that taking things too far?
Speaker 1: We'll find out more. After a quick break, when we
Speaker 1: learn more about monique story, we're back what she wants more.
Speaker 1: Monique's twelve year affair opened her up to a lot
Speaker 1: more sexual experimentation, and once she opened that door, it
Speaker 1: was impossible to shut it again. There wasn't a lot
Speaker 1: that was out of bounds. So that was really exciting.
Speaker 1: I'd had one aboordive attempt at anal sex when I
Speaker 1: was a young person, but I had kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to try it again and my husband was just like,
Speaker 1: no way, I'm not doing that, And I really wanted
Speaker 1: to find out what it was like. You know, that
Speaker 1: was exciting. Did he do the BDSM that you were
Speaker 1: curious about? No, that was someone else. You know, this
Speaker 1: guy that I was with for twelve years. He was
Speaker 1: by far and away and not the only person that
Speaker 1: I hooked up with in that time. Every once in
Speaker 1: a while, other opportunities would present them thousand Once you've
Speaker 1: done it at once, now it's just like, hmm, do
Speaker 1: I really want to pass up on that? So I
Speaker 1: did actually meet a couple and we did involve BD sent.
Speaker 1: The whole scene was a birthday present for a partner
Speaker 1: could have been listening very closely to some of the
Speaker 1: fantasies that she had related and decided that it was
Speaker 1: a high time to make some of them happen. So
Speaker 1: he was looking for a third person for them. She
Speaker 1: wanted to submit to a woman, and she wanted like
Speaker 1: a kind of Victorian scene. So you know, there was
Speaker 1: a costume and boots and the strap on and a
Speaker 1: good time was had by all. But after that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like, gee, that was fun, thanks a lot,
Speaker 1: and that was it. Like we didn't see each other
Speaker 1: again after that. Maybe they did other things with other
Speaker 1: people and it was wonderful. And this is the thing
Speaker 1: I feel like some of the people that I've been
Speaker 1: with a lot of it is just the opportunity to
Speaker 1: meet on an intimate level the kind of person that
Speaker 1: I would probably not otherwise encountering. For example, I went
Speaker 1: on a conference and met at the bar a very
Speaker 1: much younger man in his twenties, and at that point
Speaker 1: I was fifty, and you know, we start talking. That's
Speaker 1: how I know I knew how old he was. But
Speaker 1: he seemed extremely self possessed, you know, really pulled together, intelligent.
Speaker 1: We're having this nice conversation because what else am I
Speaker 1: going to do on there about myself anyway, And at
Speaker 1: some point I'm thinking, Jesus, guy's flirting with me, and
Speaker 1: of course my fifty year old brain is going, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, he just said he was twenty seventy. I'm
Speaker 1: just imagining things. But I'm like, are you flirting with me?
Speaker 1: And it's like, god, yeah, you know, it's just like
Speaker 1: I'm trying, and I'm like, right, I've been very blocker
Speaker 1: than you've been alive, and he's just like, so, you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of adventurousness is really a turn on for me.
Speaker 1: And we did end up hooking up, and it was
Speaker 1: really like, when else am I ever going to interact
Speaker 1: with somebody that age? You know, those are my children's friends,
Speaker 1: and that would be weird and inappropriate. So we you know,
Speaker 1: we ended up spending the weekend together. He picked my
Speaker 1: brains about being an older woman and with lots of experience,
Speaker 1: and we talked about all sorts of stuff, and after that,
Speaker 1: I ended up googling him later, just like cool, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. He actually turned out to be that accomplished
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad we crossed paths. I could have
Speaker 1: said no to that experience just because I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: gained so many interesting insights. It didn't harm him, it
Speaker 1: didn't harm me. I could have passed up on something
Speaker 1: really great for no good reason. So a lot of
Speaker 1: it is about more than sex. It's expanding your world,
Speaker 1: it's meeting new people. Yeah, I think so. I don't
Speaker 1: know that that was what I was looking for when
Speaker 1: I started, but that has been a wonderful side effect.
Speaker 1: I think people don't go into it necessarily thinking that.
Speaker 1: I think sex, probably, but it's the number one driver.
Speaker 1: You've been doing this so long, it's hard to say
Speaker 1: exactly what it was that away. Do you think your
Speaker 1: marriage is better now for you having explored things side
Speaker 1: of your marriage? Oh my god. Yeah. You know. I
Speaker 1: wanted things that my spouse wasn't interested in, And I
Speaker 1: think that just the fact that I feel fulfilled and
Speaker 1: I'm not nagging my spouse for things that he's not
Speaker 1: interested or obligated to give me, I think that's good.
Speaker 1: You know, I think if you scratch the service of
Speaker 1: a lot of marriages, you'd see that you don't want
Speaker 1: to shame your partner or hurt that. And it's hard
Speaker 1: to explain that it really isn't about them, but it
Speaker 1: really isn't. And I really think for women, especially when
Speaker 1: your kids are really little, everybody's on you all the time,
Speaker 1: and that's lovely, but I think it can be crazy making.
Speaker 1: And I just found reserving the time that I spent
Speaker 1: in my affair it was very nurturing for me in
Speaker 1: that it really helped me recharge my batteries as a person,
Speaker 1: independent of my role as a mother or a wife,
Speaker 1: or way journer, you know, all these other halts that
Speaker 1: I wore. This was just for me. I often wonder,
Speaker 1: and I know slur on therapy. Therapy is great, it
Speaker 1: truly helped people, But sometimes I wonder if some of
Speaker 1: the things that you want from a therapist, like somebody
Speaker 1: in a safe space who's going to listen to you,
Speaker 1: you can get a lot of that from an affair
Speaker 1: if you choose the right person, because that person is
Speaker 1: also not necessarily at all involved in your life, so
Speaker 1: they can be quite dispassionate when it comes to things
Speaker 1: like that. And also often, like the girlfriends that I've
Speaker 1: had that have spent the longest in therapy, a lot
Speaker 1: of it was kind of esteem issues, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, having a lover can definitely give you a
Speaker 1: boost in that respect. I mean, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: a pretty self confident person to begin with, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt either. Plus, nothing like orgasm can make a
Speaker 1: woman's serene. Women want to feel and need to feel
Speaker 1: like they're desirable and their bodies are like amazing and
Speaker 1: they're sexy, and so yeah, having somebody who gives you
Speaker 1: all of that, who gives you that feeling, it's addictive,
Speaker 1: it's intoxicating. That's doctor Gail Saltz. She's a psychiatrist, best
Speaker 1: selling author, columnist, podcast host, and TV commentator. Get this
Speaker 1: all of the things. I asked her if it was
Speaker 1: common for women to feel a loss of identity, like
Speaker 1: Monique says, after marriage and kids. There are definitely joys
Speaker 1: and peaks of joy in having children, but it's stressful
Speaker 1: and it increases your responsibility exponentially in every sort of way.
Speaker 1: And the lion's share of that generally falls on women.
Speaker 1: So you know, you're happy, you met someone, you got married.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful, it's wonderful. And now what while at least
Speaker 1: seventy percent of everything housework, taking care of your life
Speaker 1: and his life or her life and children, it ends
Speaker 1: up being you. A lot of women might say it's
Speaker 1: hard to be like I'm fulfilled while I'm chronically underslept
Speaker 1: doing some things that don't actually feel that glorified, like vacuuming,
Speaker 1: and then they are stuck in it, like they already
Speaker 1: established their pattern and it's really hard to back out of.
Speaker 1: And how can having an affair change that for a woman,
Speaker 1: a woman who is suck in that chronic stress cycle,
Speaker 1: who has lost her sense of identity, Yeah, hugely, because
Speaker 1: you know, instead of thinking about vacuuming or having a
Speaker 1: baby hang off a boob while she mops, thinking of
Speaker 1: that image of herself, she's thinking about being like a
Speaker 1: goddess in bed, like he thinks I'm the hottest thing.
Speaker 1: So women insects do a tremendous amount of self observation,
Speaker 1: and desire comes for women from a great amount of
Speaker 1: self observing imagining whoever is doing it to them, imagining
Speaker 1: themselves through that person's eyes. So if you're thinking like,
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted, I don't really feel like doing anything with
Speaker 1: you my partner. Ps, I'm being touched all day by
Speaker 1: little kids, and so I'm really pretty touched out and
Speaker 1: it's the same old Samuel, and so it doesn't have
Speaker 1: that excitement for me having someone new who's just like, please,
Speaker 1: you got to find a way to be with me.
Speaker 1: So I'm exciting. I find you exciting. You see yourself
Speaker 1: through me. Now we're like kind of in a frenzy.
Speaker 1: It's secret, it's risky. That totally increases the excitement a
Speaker 1: million percent. And so you might be mopping and having
Speaker 1: kids on your hip that you're thinking about this other
Speaker 1: thing and it's making things better. Stay with us because
Speaker 1: after the break, we're going to learn all about some
Speaker 1: of Monique's most opening sexual experiences. You're listening. She wants more.
Speaker 1: What are some of the best, most fun, most eye
Speaker 1: opening sexual experiences that you've had since she started doing this.
Speaker 1: So one that was really kind of crazy, that very
Speaker 1: young person that I was telling him about was a
Speaker 1: scientist in engineering, so somebody who was deeply committed to
Speaker 1: optimizing the experience, very inventive in a kind of Tinkerer
Speaker 1: sort of way. So he loved like machines, so toys
Speaker 1: on some level, our machines, right. He also mcgi wrote
Speaker 1: a bunch of sex toys from stuff You bought at Staples.
Speaker 1: What Yeah, so like, what what can you what can
Speaker 1: you buy a Staples? You can buy a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting clips for one, you know, and I'm just like, hmm, okay.
Speaker 1: He bought this like bendible ruler, but he kind of
Speaker 1: bent it into shape and it was like phenomenal. It
Speaker 1: was the craziest thing. So it's that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: like I would never go to Staples thinking, oh, what
Speaker 1: can I buy here that I can use as a
Speaker 1: sex toy? But this guy was that guy. He kind
Speaker 1: of thought about these things like they were puzzles, Like
Speaker 1: if I can make her come once, how do I
Speaker 1: make her come like ten times? Like this increase the
Speaker 1: you know, like it's just a better delivery. And you
Speaker 1: know that was amazing somebody who's actually sitting there thinking
Speaker 1: about this. I love the optimization. Do you think your
Speaker 1: husband knows Yeah? Really, why do you think that just
Speaker 1: kind of oblique remarks? Use man the other things. I
Speaker 1: think he knows me very well. I mean that's why
Speaker 1: we've had such a good marriage for so long. And
Speaker 1: I was always a very very sexual person. He's too
Speaker 1: smart to think that all of that is just suddenly
Speaker 1: sublimated when you get married, so I think that he
Speaker 1: has wisely decided as long as his needs are being met,
Speaker 1: you know, like my private life is my private life,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's actually a pretty healthy attitude.
Speaker 1: The question that nobody ever asks is, Okay, imagine this
Speaker 1: scenario if your wife had a lover, but at the
Speaker 1: same time that made her sexier, like she would buy
Speaker 1: lingerie or try things that she never did before. However
Speaker 1: you define like an increase in hotness. Wouldn't she want that?
Speaker 1: I always wonder, because they do all those surveys, is like,
Speaker 1: you know, would you cheat if you knew for sure,
Speaker 1: like they could guarantee that your spouse would never find out?
Speaker 1: And how it? What's the percentage? It's like crazy high, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So all of you, it's not that you're naturally monogamous,
Speaker 1: you're just cowardly. You do it if you knew you
Speaker 1: couldn't get caught. But you don't do it because you
Speaker 1: have fear. Well, I don't know that being motivated by
Speaker 1: fear automatically equals virtue, but you know, if you are
Speaker 1: confident and sexually fulfilled, you are just a better, more
Speaker 1: grounded person in your day to day life. You know,
Speaker 1: if it puts a little spring in my step. I
Speaker 1: think those things have benefited not you know, my spouse,
Speaker 1: but also other people. You know, my kids for example.
Speaker 1: One of the things I did not want to be.
Speaker 1: You know these people who start, you notice that their
Speaker 1: children's lives start filling in the gaps in their own life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my kids sack your team, just this, my kid did this,
Speaker 1: My kid did that. Don't get me wrong, I'm in
Speaker 1: samely proud of my children. However, I do understand that
Speaker 1: their achievements are not my achievements. And I'm looking at
Speaker 1: these some of these women going you drained to yourself
Speaker 1: like whatever interest that you have that you drained are
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not going to be that person.
Speaker 1: I have my own interests. I'm sure maybe people take
Speaker 1: up quilting. I don't know. You know what other people
Speaker 1: do that gets them in the zone, But this does
Speaker 1: it for me. I think the problem we have in
Speaker 1: society is there's still so much stigma around polyamory and
Speaker 1: around consensual no monogamy. So many people are scared to
Speaker 1: open up their relationship or sport for fear of being stigmatized,
Speaker 1: or for fear of being negatively evaluated. That's doctor Ashley Thompson. Again.
Speaker 1: There is a substantial, a non ignorable number of people,
Speaker 1: but women in particular, who actually report positive outcomes from
Speaker 1: their experiences with infidelity or their experiences with secondary partners.
Speaker 1: So I love sort of challenging this narrative, and one
Speaker 1: way to do that is to just increase the discourse.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. We shouldn't be afraid to be,
Speaker 1: you know, looking into these things and exploring these things.
Speaker 1: If it means that we can feel better about ourselves, right,
Speaker 1: if it means that we can be happier and more satisfied,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't be That's all for this week's episode. Next
Speaker 1: week's episode. It's a different kind of episode than the
Speaker 1: ones we've been making so far, and a very different
Speaker 1: kind of affair than what you've heard so far. That's
Speaker 1: all next week, so tune in. She Wants More was
Speaker 1: inspired by the book A Passion for More by Susan
Speaker 1: Shapiro Bearish. It was adapted for audio by executive producers
Speaker 1: Merrill Poster, Kara Peiffer, and Susan Shapiro Bearish. She Wants
Speaker 1: More is hosted and reported by me Joe Piazza. Jennifer
Speaker 1: Bassett is our lead producer and story editor. Our sound
Speaker 1: design is by Jessica Crunchich. Our theme was composed by
Speaker 1: Anna Stumf and Hamilton Lighthouser. Our executive producers for iHeart
Speaker 1: are Ally Perry and Nikki Betore. She wants More as
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.