1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: We know why we're here. We're just going to have 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: knockout sex for the next couple of hours and then 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, Patmian, Yeah, and I'll leave the hotel. And 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: I albeit, I thought that was just the ticket. This 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: is she wants more. I'm your host, Joe Piazza. Last 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: week we heard from Katie. Katie had been shamed for 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: her affair and forced to lead behind her any higher 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: life and moved to a new city. This week, we're 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: going to be hearing from Monique. Monique isn't her real name, 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: but everything she told me is true. And I promised 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: that Monique is going to make you rethink almost everything 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: that you think you know about women, their sexual desires 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: and monogamy. Let's just say you like to play tennis, 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: and you're really good at it, like really good, and 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: at some point you go to your partner and you say, 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: you know what, I really need to a tennis with 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: somebody who plays tennis at my lovel one. Nobody would say, 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: oh no, don't go find that person. You'd be like, yeah, 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: I probably get it. You know, you love this, this 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: is one of your favorite things in the whole world. 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: Go find somebody who's into it as you are. If 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: you take out tennis and say really fun, really great sex, yeah, 23 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: then suddenly it's not the same kind of activity. In 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: American culture, we don't really accept non monogamous relationships, and 25 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: we also expect one partner to fulfill absolutely all of 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: our needs financial partner, lover, intellectual, equal, friend, soulmate, person 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: to watch all of our television shows with. But that 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: notion of one person fulfilling every single thing that we 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: need in life, checking off every single one of our 30 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: boxes does not exist in most other parts of the world. 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: For sample, in France, were more than half of the 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: population find it morally acceptable for married people to have affairs. 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: When I was doing research for my book How to 34 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: Be Married, I interviewed dozens of frenchwomen about monogamy and 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: they told me something that I still think about seven 36 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: years after I wrote that book. They said that just 37 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: having the option of being with another man, and the 38 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: fact that their husbands or their long term boyfriends also 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: had the option to be with another woman, that gave 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: them both a sense of freedom and agency that we 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: don't always feel in our marriages in the United States. 42 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: But before we get into how having an affair shifted 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Monique's understanding of monogamy. I wanted to find out why 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: she decided to cheat on her husband in the first place. 45 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about when you decided to 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: first start having an affair. How did that come about? 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean my mid fifties. I have two children, they 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: are pretty much grown, and I have been married this 49 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: year thirty years. There was one evening where we had 50 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: had some wine and started talking and I kind of 51 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: trotted out my bucket list, like I thought, Hey, the 52 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: kids are in a good place. When you have small children, 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: typically your intimate relationship takes a little bit of a 54 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: back seat. So I was thinking, oh, now's the time. 55 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: Right here. We are in northern California and it's a 56 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: very open and accepting place. I was thinking there might 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: be some unconventional animus that we could pursue. I had 58 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: had a really wonderful threesome when I was in college, 59 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: and I thought that that would be something that I 60 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: would like to repeat. You know, it was fun being 61 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: with a woman, and I thought, you know, and in 62 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: his right mind is going to turn down a woman 63 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: telling him, Yeah, I'd really like to bring another woman 64 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: into our bed. But you know, he just wasn't interested. 65 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to dispoisse things up. And the response 66 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: I got was kind of like why Monique was so 67 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: disappointed by her husband's answer. She was craving something different, 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: something more exciting, something passionate, especially after having her kids 69 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: and then finally getting back in touch with her body. 70 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: But her husband, it was just content with the status quo. 71 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: And even though Monique had grown up Catholic in an 72 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: area where everyone just accepted monogamy was the only thing 73 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: that you could do, she was starting to get more 74 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: exposed to people with less traditional lifestyles. So Monique started 75 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: looking for what else was out there. I guess heard 76 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: of me was kind of looking to see if any 77 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: of the things that I was into we're actually available, 78 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: And of course, you know that's just naive. You go 79 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: online and of course anything you're into is available. So 80 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: it was just a matter I think, then, of deciding 81 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: to take an opportunity. So you went online, How do 82 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: you even start when you go online? And then what 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: made you finally take the plunge and do it the 84 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: first time? So you know, back in the day, it 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: was craigslist. You know, you could go on craigslist and 86 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: you could find anything, you know, from adult nursing relationship 87 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: to garden furniture, I mean really whatever you needed, and 88 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: you could find it on Craigslist. I got I got 89 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: a great patio set, see and I sold mine. So 90 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: I think that was when I just, you know, I 91 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: had been one of the things that I had kind 92 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: of broached with my spouse was besides the three way, 93 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: I'd always been kind of loosely interested and BDSM And 94 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: I know that that's very specific and that you know, 95 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: either you're into it or you're not, But that was 96 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: kind of where I started. So I saw, you know, 97 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: that was obviously an easy thing, but I also found, 98 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: you know, there was this couple looking for a unicorn. 99 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: We explained to me what a unicorn is. A unicorn 100 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: is basically somebody who comes in with a couple's looking 101 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: for a third and I think that the tougher thing 102 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: is often it's easier to find a woman who's willing 103 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: to play with the guy but not the woman, So 104 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: to find somebody who's into both sides of the couple 105 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: is a little bit harder, Hence the unicorn. But anyway, 106 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: I decided to answer this ad and I met this 107 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: couple and I thought they were great, and then it 108 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: petered out, so that actually never happened, but I think 109 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: in my mind that kind of opened the door where 110 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: I was just like, Okay, this is going to have 111 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: to be something you do. So even though her first 112 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: attempt failed, Monique could not get this out of our head, 113 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: and she tried Craigslist again. This time she crafted a 114 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: really good ad and got what she thought was the 115 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: perfect response. So, you know, we kept corresponding and he 116 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: was single and initially not at all on board. He 117 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: wasn't going for a married woman. He was looking for 118 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: a single person. But then at some point we decided 119 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: to have a beer together that was very low key, 120 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: and you know, after that we met again, and then 121 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: at some point it happened. Was kind of unplanned, I think, 122 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: because he had always said he wasn't interested in a 123 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: married woman, and you know, at that point, I wasn't 124 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: even really sure what this saw about. But you know, 125 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: like I said, once you kind of opened your mind 126 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: to the possibility, there must have been a certain electricity there. 127 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: And he was a lot more experienced, so that was 128 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: really exciting. And I saw this person for twelve years, 129 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: twelve years. That's a long time. How did you keep 130 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: it separate from what are the logistics? How do you talk? 131 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: How do you meet? How do you keep everything a secret? 132 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: I think the trick is that sounds nasty in a 133 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: way because I think most people associate affairs with like 134 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: crazy passion. But it really wasn't like that. It was 135 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: pretty calculated. We kept everything The email really depended a 136 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: lot on his work schedule and availability at the time. 137 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: I was working part time, and I would go down 138 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: and see him, but usually during the day and definitely 139 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: never anywhere near where either of us lived, and I 140 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: never went to his house. We never came to mind, 141 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: I think, despite the fact that we were doing this 142 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: on enough for twelve years. I bet you if you 143 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: asked him what are her children's names, he wouldn't know. 144 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: So it was very compartmentalized. It was you were able 145 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: to be like, this is sex and my marriage is 146 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, you know, and often I've actually said 147 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: this to friends of mine. You know. The weird thing 148 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: about monogamy is it's like saying red is your favorite color, 149 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: and then you have to wear red and only red 150 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: for the rest of your days. What if I wake 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: up and I feel like wearing yellow is that me? 152 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: And red isn't my favorite color anymore? No, of course not. 153 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: And you would think that somebody was either a lunatic 154 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: or an artist if they were the same color every 155 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: single day, or ate the same food like I only 156 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: eat proccoli, you would think they're a lunatic or a toddler. Really, 157 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: my son only it's chicken nuggets, and I do think 158 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: he is a lunatic. Yeah, well, you know, you're exactly right. 159 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: But at that point you're telling your kids, oh, you know, 160 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: just take a bite, just try it, because you want 161 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: them to have a broad experience of life. And this 162 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: is the thing. You kind of sit there and you 163 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: look back and you think, well, yes, I'm married and 164 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: I raised two children. There's some lovely stability that goes 165 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: with that. But you do, as a grown up close 166 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: yourself off to a lot of experiences. Different people bring 167 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: different things to the table, and it's just like I 168 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: just happen to really like a full table. Within the 169 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: last fifty years, there's been the shift that we need 170 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: to get absolutely everything from our monogamous partner. This idea 171 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: that our partners should complete us, our partners should make 172 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: us better people. That's doctor Ashley Thompson. Doctor Thompson is 173 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: the director of the Sexuality and Relationships Science Lab at 174 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota, Duluth. She's a sex professor and 175 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: a really good one. I asked doctor Thompson what the research, 176 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: the actual research says about monogamy and if it's really 177 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: possible for one partner to satisfy all of our needs. 178 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: We have a variety of needs in our relationship. If 179 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: all of your needs are met but one, let's say 180 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: emotional needs aren't being met, I would still argue that 181 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: you're in a pretty damn good relationship if the majority 182 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: of your needs are being met. But that's looked at 183 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: negatively by society, right, and so I would argue that 184 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: as a society, we need to shift these ideas about 185 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: getting everything from a partner and normalizing that it's okay 186 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: to go to somebody else for emotional fulfillment whatever those 187 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: needs might be, and every other need, but the sexual 188 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: need is being met by your partner. Again, I would say, 189 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: you're doing pretty great. But sex again, is this taboo 190 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: area that, oh, this person's having to go outside of 191 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: the relationship to get their sexual needs met. Oh what 192 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: an awful human right, so taboo, so terrible. It's like, 193 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: we're placing such pressure on our partner that, let's be honest, 194 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: nobody can fulfill every single one of our needs. Like 195 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: the Jerry McGuire, You complete me, Yes, that's exactly it. 196 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: Jerry McGuire remember that movie. I remember when I first 197 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: thought as a very impressionable teenager or twenty something, and 198 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: I thought that line was so freaking stupid. Of course, 199 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: one person isn't going to complete me. And that is why, 200 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: since I got married seven years ago, I'll have male 201 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: friends and female friends and work colleagues and all sorts 202 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: of people that I go to besides my husband for 203 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: fun and yeah, occasional bitching about the man that I'm 204 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: married to. But I've got to say, I've never considered 205 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: going outside of my marriage to find sex, to find 206 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: different kinds of sex, maybe even better sex. But I 207 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: think I haven't thought about it because sex is this 208 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: huge cultural taboo. But maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe finding 209 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: a different sexual partner is just like Monique said, it's 210 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: just like going out there and finding someone else to 211 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: play tennis with. Or is that taking things too far? 212 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: We'll find out more. After a quick break, when we 213 00:13:51,760 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: learn more about monique story, we're back what she wants more. 214 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: Monique's twelve year affair opened her up to a lot 215 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: more sexual experimentation, and once she opened that door, it 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: was impossible to shut it again. There wasn't a lot 217 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: that was out of bounds. So that was really exciting. 218 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: I'd had one aboordive attempt at anal sex when I 219 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: was a young person, but I had kind of wanted 220 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: to try it again and my husband was just like, 221 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: no way, I'm not doing that, And I really wanted 222 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: to find out what it was like. You know, that 223 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: was exciting. Did he do the BDSM that you were 224 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: curious about? No, that was someone else. You know, this 225 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: guy that I was with for twelve years. He was 226 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: by far and away and not the only person that 227 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: I hooked up with in that time. Every once in 228 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: a while, other opportunities would present them thousand Once you've 229 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: done it at once, now it's just like, hmm, do 230 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: I really want to pass up on that? So I 231 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: did actually meet a couple and we did involve BD sent. 232 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: The whole scene was a birthday present for a partner 233 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: could have been listening very closely to some of the 234 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: fantasies that she had related and decided that it was 235 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: a high time to make some of them happen. So 236 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: he was looking for a third person for them. She 237 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: wanted to submit to a woman, and she wanted like 238 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: a kind of Victorian scene. So you know, there was 239 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: a costume and boots and the strap on and a 240 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: good time was had by all. But after that, you know, 241 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: it was like, gee, that was fun, thanks a lot, 242 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: and that was it. Like we didn't see each other 243 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: again after that. Maybe they did other things with other 244 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: people and it was wonderful. And this is the thing 245 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: I feel like some of the people that I've been 246 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: with a lot of it is just the opportunity to 247 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: meet on an intimate level the kind of person that 248 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: I would probably not otherwise encountering. For example, I went 249 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: on a conference and met at the bar a very 250 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: much younger man in his twenties, and at that point 251 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: I was fifty, and you know, we start talking. That's 252 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: how I know I knew how old he was. But 253 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: he seemed extremely self possessed, you know, really pulled together, intelligent. 254 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: We're having this nice conversation because what else am I 255 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: going to do on there about myself anyway, And at 256 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: some point I'm thinking, Jesus, guy's flirting with me, and 257 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: of course my fifty year old brain is going, yeah, 258 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: I know, he just said he was twenty seventy. I'm 259 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: just imagining things. But I'm like, are you flirting with me? 260 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: And it's like, god, yeah, you know, it's just like 261 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying, and I'm like, right, I've been very blocker 262 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: than you've been alive, and he's just like, so, you know, 263 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: that kind of adventurousness is really a turn on for me. 264 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: And we did end up hooking up, and it was 265 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: really like, when else am I ever going to interact 266 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: with somebody that age? You know, those are my children's friends, 267 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: and that would be weird and inappropriate. So we you know, 268 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: we ended up spending the weekend together. He picked my 269 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: brains about being an older woman and with lots of experience, 270 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: and we talked about all sorts of stuff, and after that, 271 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: I ended up googling him later, just like cool, Okay, 272 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: that's interesting. He actually turned out to be that accomplished 273 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad we crossed paths. I could have 274 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: said no to that experience just because I wouldn't have 275 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: gained so many interesting insights. It didn't harm him, it 276 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: didn't harm me. I could have passed up on something 277 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: really great for no good reason. So a lot of 278 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: it is about more than sex. It's expanding your world, 279 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: it's meeting new people. Yeah, I think so. I don't 280 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: know that that was what I was looking for when 281 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: I started, but that has been a wonderful side effect. 282 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: I think people don't go into it necessarily thinking that. 283 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: I think sex, probably, but it's the number one driver. 284 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: You've been doing this so long, it's hard to say 285 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: exactly what it was that away. Do you think your 286 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: marriage is better now for you having explored things side 287 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: of your marriage? Oh my god. Yeah. You know. I 288 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: wanted things that my spouse wasn't interested in, And I 289 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: think that just the fact that I feel fulfilled and 290 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: I'm not nagging my spouse for things that he's not 291 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: interested or obligated to give me, I think that's good. 292 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: You know, I think if you scratch the service of 293 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: a lot of marriages, you'd see that you don't want 294 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: to shame your partner or hurt that. And it's hard 295 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 1: to explain that it really isn't about them, but it 296 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: really isn't. And I really think for women, especially when 297 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: your kids are really little, everybody's on you all the time, 298 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: and that's lovely, but I think it can be crazy making. 299 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: And I just found reserving the time that I spent 300 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: in my affair it was very nurturing for me in 301 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 1: that it really helped me recharge my batteries as a person, 302 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: independent of my role as a mother or a wife, 303 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: or way journer, you know, all these other halts that 304 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: I wore. This was just for me. I often wonder, 305 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: and I know slur on therapy. Therapy is great, it 306 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: truly helped people, But sometimes I wonder if some of 307 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: the things that you want from a therapist, like somebody 308 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: in a safe space who's going to listen to you, 309 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: you can get a lot of that from an affair 310 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: if you choose the right person, because that person is 311 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: also not necessarily at all involved in your life, so 312 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: they can be quite dispassionate when it comes to things 313 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: like that. And also often, like the girlfriends that I've 314 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: had that have spent the longest in therapy, a lot 315 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: of it was kind of esteem issues, and it's like, well, 316 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: you know, having a lover can definitely give you a 317 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: boost in that respect. I mean, I feel like I'm 318 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: a pretty self confident person to begin with, but that 319 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: doesn't hurt either. Plus, nothing like orgasm can make a 320 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: woman's serene. Women want to feel and need to feel 321 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: like they're desirable and their bodies are like amazing and 322 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: they're sexy, and so yeah, having somebody who gives you 323 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: all of that, who gives you that feeling, it's addictive, 324 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: it's intoxicating. That's doctor Gail Saltz. She's a psychiatrist, best 325 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: selling author, columnist, podcast host, and TV commentator. Get this 326 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: all of the things. I asked her if it was 327 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: common for women to feel a loss of identity, like 328 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: Monique says, after marriage and kids. There are definitely joys 329 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: and peaks of joy in having children, but it's stressful 330 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: and it increases your responsibility exponentially in every sort of way. 331 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: And the lion's share of that generally falls on women. 332 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: So you know, you're happy, you met someone, you got married. 333 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: It's wonderful, it's wonderful. And now what while at least 334 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: seventy percent of everything housework, taking care of your life 335 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: and his life or her life and children, it ends 336 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: up being you. A lot of women might say it's 337 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: hard to be like I'm fulfilled while I'm chronically underslept 338 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: doing some things that don't actually feel that glorified, like vacuuming, 339 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: and then they are stuck in it, like they already 340 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: established their pattern and it's really hard to back out of. 341 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: And how can having an affair change that for a woman, 342 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: a woman who is suck in that chronic stress cycle, 343 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: who has lost her sense of identity, Yeah, hugely, because 344 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, instead of thinking about vacuuming or having a 345 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: baby hang off a boob while she mops, thinking of 346 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: that image of herself, she's thinking about being like a 347 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: goddess in bed, like he thinks I'm the hottest thing. 348 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: So women insects do a tremendous amount of self observation, 349 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: and desire comes for women from a great amount of 350 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: self observing imagining whoever is doing it to them, imagining 351 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: themselves through that person's eyes. So if you're thinking like, 352 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm exhausted, I don't really feel like doing anything with 353 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: you my partner. Ps, I'm being touched all day by 354 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: little kids, and so I'm really pretty touched out and 355 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: it's the same old Samuel, and so it doesn't have 356 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: that excitement for me having someone new who's just like, please, 357 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: you got to find a way to be with me. 358 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: So I'm exciting. I find you exciting. You see yourself 359 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: through me. Now we're like kind of in a frenzy. 360 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: It's secret, it's risky. That totally increases the excitement a 361 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: million percent. And so you might be mopping and having 362 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: kids on your hip that you're thinking about this other 363 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: thing and it's making things better. Stay with us because 364 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: after the break, we're going to learn all about some 365 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: of Monique's most opening sexual experiences. You're listening. She wants more. 366 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: What are some of the best, most fun, most eye 367 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: opening sexual experiences that you've had since she started doing this. 368 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: So one that was really kind of crazy, that very 369 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: young person that I was telling him about was a 370 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: scientist in engineering, so somebody who was deeply committed to 371 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: optimizing the experience, very inventive in a kind of Tinkerer 372 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: sort of way. So he loved like machines, so toys 373 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: on some level, our machines, right. He also mcgi wrote 374 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of sex toys from stuff You bought at Staples. 375 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: What Yeah, so like, what what can you what can 376 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: you buy a Staples? You can buy a lot of 377 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: interesting clips for one, you know, and I'm just like, hmm, okay. 378 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: He bought this like bendible ruler, but he kind of 379 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: bent it into shape and it was like phenomenal. It 380 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: was the craziest thing. So it's that kind of stuff 381 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: like I would never go to Staples thinking, oh, what 382 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: can I buy here that I can use as a 383 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: sex toy? But this guy was that guy. He kind 384 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: of thought about these things like they were puzzles, Like 385 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: if I can make her come once, how do I 386 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: make her come like ten times? Like this increase the 387 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, like it's just a better delivery. And you 388 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: know that was amazing somebody who's actually sitting there thinking 389 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: about this. I love the optimization. Do you think your 390 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: husband knows Yeah? Really, why do you think that just 391 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: kind of oblique remarks? Use man the other things. I 392 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: think he knows me very well. I mean that's why 393 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: we've had such a good marriage for so long. And 394 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: I was always a very very sexual person. He's too 395 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: smart to think that all of that is just suddenly 396 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: sublimated when you get married, so I think that he 397 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: has wisely decided as long as his needs are being met, 398 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, like my private life is my private life, 399 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: and I think that that's actually a pretty healthy attitude. 400 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: The question that nobody ever asks is, Okay, imagine this 401 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: scenario if your wife had a lover, but at the 402 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: same time that made her sexier, like she would buy 403 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: lingerie or try things that she never did before. However 404 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: you define like an increase in hotness. Wouldn't she want that? 405 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: I always wonder, because they do all those surveys, is like, 406 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, would you cheat if you knew for sure, 407 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: like they could guarantee that your spouse would never find out? 408 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: And how it? What's the percentage? It's like crazy high, right, Okay, 409 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: So all of you, it's not that you're naturally monogamous, 410 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: you're just cowardly. You do it if you knew you 411 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: couldn't get caught. But you don't do it because you 412 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: have fear. Well, I don't know that being motivated by 413 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: fear automatically equals virtue, but you know, if you are 414 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: confident and sexually fulfilled, you are just a better, more 415 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: grounded person in your day to day life. You know, 416 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: if it puts a little spring in my step. I 417 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: think those things have benefited not you know, my spouse, 418 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: but also other people. You know, my kids for example. 419 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: One of the things I did not want to be. 420 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: You know these people who start, you notice that their 421 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: children's lives start filling in the gaps in their own life. Yeah, 422 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: my kids sack your team, just this, my kid did this, 423 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: My kid did that. Don't get me wrong, I'm in 424 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: samely proud of my children. However, I do understand that 425 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: their achievements are not my achievements. And I'm looking at 426 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: these some of these women going you drained to yourself 427 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: like whatever interest that you have that you drained are 428 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not going to be that person. 429 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: I have my own interests. I'm sure maybe people take 430 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: up quilting. I don't know. You know what other people 431 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: do that gets them in the zone, But this does 432 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: it for me. I think the problem we have in 433 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: society is there's still so much stigma around polyamory and 434 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: around consensual no monogamy. So many people are scared to 435 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: open up their relationship or sport for fear of being stigmatized, 436 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: or for fear of being negatively evaluated. That's doctor Ashley Thompson. Again. 437 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 1: There is a substantial, a non ignorable number of people, 438 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: but women in particular, who actually report positive outcomes from 439 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: their experiences with infidelity or their experiences with secondary partners. 440 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: So I love sort of challenging this narrative, and one 441 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: way to do that is to just increase the discourse. 442 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. We shouldn't be afraid to be, 443 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, looking into these things and exploring these things. 444 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: If it means that we can feel better about ourselves, right, 445 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: if it means that we can be happier and more satisfied, 446 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: why wouldn't be That's all for this week's episode. Next 447 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: week's episode. It's a different kind of episode than the 448 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: ones we've been making so far, and a very different 449 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: kind of affair than what you've heard so far. That's 450 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: all next week, so tune in. She Wants More was 451 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: inspired by the book A Passion for More by Susan 452 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: Shapiro Bearish. It was adapted for audio by executive producers 453 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: Merrill Poster, Kara Peiffer, and Susan Shapiro Bearish. She Wants 454 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: More is hosted and reported by me Joe Piazza. Jennifer 455 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: Bassett is our lead producer and story editor. Our sound 456 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: design is by Jessica Crunchich. Our theme was composed by 457 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: Anna Stumf and Hamilton Lighthouser. Our executive producers for iHeart 458 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: are Ally Perry and Nikki Betore. She wants More as 459 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart, 460 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 461 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.