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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump has decided to rename

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Speaker 1: Iran's three hundred billion dollar reparations fund as an investment fund.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today, the

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Project Zone Rick Wilson joined us to discuss Trump's

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Speaker 1: recapping JD Vance's residential aspirations. Then we'll talk to the

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Speaker 1: Center for American Progresses Tom Moore about his plan to

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Speaker 1: overturn Citizens United one state at a time. But first

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Speaker 1: the news SMI.

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Speaker 2: There's a disturbing new verdict that anti ICE protesters have

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Speaker 2: been found guilty and it really really cramps down on

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Speaker 2: free speech rights.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so these are three Washington State protesters have been

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Speaker 1: found guilty of federal conspiracy charges for sitting in front

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Speaker 1: of a bus taking people to an immigration detention center

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Speaker 1: in Tacoma. Three people, okay, three of the nine people

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Speaker 1: who are arrested last June after responding to former city

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Speaker 1: council presidents request for protesters to block a bus from

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Speaker 1: taking immigrants from one iced detention center to another. This

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Speaker 1: is like pretty bad, and I'll tell you why. By

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Speaker 1: the way, six of the nine accepted plea deals, So

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Speaker 1: these were the three that they really went after. And again,

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Speaker 1: these are federal conspiracy charges. Ultimately, this is what the

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Speaker 1: ADMIN does. They use trump to charges to try to

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Speaker 1: prevent people from protesting. Right, sitting in front of a

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Speaker 1: bus that is annoying, but it does not endanger anyone's lives.

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Speaker 1: It is not violent. It is just annoying. And so

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Speaker 1: the idea that these three are now part of a

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Speaker 1: federal conspiracy, there is no world in which that's what's

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Speaker 1: going on here. And again, this is a Civil War

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Speaker 1: era law dested off to punish members of the Spokane

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Speaker 1: community who stood up for two young men who were

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Speaker 1: unlawfully detained by ice. That's what the former US Attorney

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Speaker 1: Richard Baker told the Spokane Review. Again, this is what

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Speaker 1: this admin does. They use laws that are still in

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Speaker 1: the books but not relevant, laws like the Comstock Act.

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Speaker 1: They use the Comstock Act on abortion pills. They've just

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Speaker 1: found the laws that haven't been repealed to try and

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Speaker 1: silence descent. So again, these people are now facing a

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Speaker 1: maximum sentence of six years in prison and a quarter

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Speaker 1: of a million dollars in fines. This will get appealed,

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Speaker 1: it will go to higher court. It will probably ultimately

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Speaker 1: because it's so insane, get overturned. But again, this is

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Speaker 1: trump Ism, right. They will have to spend tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on lawyers. It's very scary, the idea

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Speaker 1: of spending six years of your life in a federal

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Speaker 1: prison because you blocked a boss. And so the point

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Speaker 1: is it's meant to scare people, and it's meant to

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Speaker 1: incentivize people not to protest, which you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: first Amendment for a reason comes first.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

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Speaker 2: I keep thinking about that, like a decade from now,

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Speaker 2: people who weren't alive through this era and they're learning

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Speaker 2: about it are going to think trumped up charges was

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Speaker 2: named after him. It happened so often.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well maybe he cooked it up himself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Americans have paid an additional fifty nine billion in

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Speaker 2: fuel prices since Trump started the Iran war. Yeah, we

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Speaker 2: just all love burning money because he had this whim.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I don't if you know this, but if you

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Speaker 1: go to the gas station, gas is about a dollar

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Speaker 1: and a half a gallon more expensive, not check. That's

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Speaker 1: me scenario, right, it's very expensive. It's expensive for a reason.

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Speaker 1: And here's the reason. It's because Donald Trump went to

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Speaker 1: war with Iran. Why did he do it? Probably because

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Speaker 1: he was tricked by Nan Yahoo, That's what Marco Rubio said.

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Speaker 1: Whatever the reason, every week for the last three months,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has said that he's going to resolve the war.

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Speaker 1: It'll happen any minute. My favorite part is like every

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Speaker 1: Sunday night, Axios, before the market's open, Axios reports that

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Speaker 1: they are very very very close to peace in the

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Speaker 1: Middle East. But then somehow the markets open, we get

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Speaker 1: no peace. It's weird, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine why no one's ever doing any bets

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Speaker 2: on the stock market about this.

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Speaker 1: By the way, my favorite thing this morning was smiling

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Speaker 1: Kevin was musing about how Americans are paying more money.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess he's taking Scott a since usual role

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Speaker 2: on a Sunday show of saying very weird, out of

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Speaker 2: touch things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So on Fox News he said people are spending

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Speaker 1: more on gas, but they're also spending more on everything else,

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Speaker 1: not just groceries but restaurants, so you can see people

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Speaker 1: are optimistic about the future. And what he means actually

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Speaker 1: is that that's inflation. Great stuff the best.

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Speaker 2: So there's an interesting way that some blue state governors

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Speaker 2: like Gavin Newsom are thinking about how to cripple Trump's

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Speaker 2: slush fund, and that is taxing it at one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean this is actually a really cool idea. Again,

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Speaker 1: I think this slush fund doesn't go anywhere because Republicans

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Speaker 1: aren't into it either. Pretty much, no one is into

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Speaker 1: the Trump slush fund except you know who's really into it,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: The pedophiles who were arrested after doing January six.

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Speaker 1: You know who's really into it too is Roger Stone.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, other guy Michael what's his name? That guy?

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: I actually don't.

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Speaker 1: Michael Kupudo. Oh yes, Trump's people are very excited about

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Speaker 1: the slush fund, but Republican governors not so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I I think the other thing too, is at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, this doesn't bode well for

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Speaker 2: people getting asked questions at debates for the midterms about

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Speaker 2: how they feel about it, because then they have to

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Speaker 2: choose between their allegiance of deer leader and the American

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Speaker 2: people being robbed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we're gonna see a lot of this.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the run up to the midterms, you

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Speaker 1: are going to have to defend trump Ism and Trump

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Speaker 1: as a Republican. You're gonna have to do that, and

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Speaker 1: then also try to get elected, try to have non

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Speaker 1: magas vote for you. A really good example of this

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Speaker 1: is a guy called Michael Lawler who wanted a Harris

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Speaker 1: Biden district. Trump came to upstate New York where he is,

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Speaker 1: and like, this is a guy for whom like probably

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Speaker 1: twenty percent of the area's MAGA. So you get the

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Speaker 1: MAGA vote, but you also need like normal voters, and

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Speaker 1: you need like Republican leaning indies, and that is a

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Speaker 1: group that Donald Trump has been hemorrhaging. So it'll be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see if like these sort of more swing

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Speaker 1: steady Republicans can survive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not looking good for them. So the Washington Post

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Speaker 2: has this interesting report about how some judges are trying

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Speaker 2: to do some angling for filling Alito or Thomas's seats

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Speaker 2: when they inevitably go during this Trump term.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Alito and Thomas have both said they're not retiring.

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Speaker 1: Thomas has been on the Supreme Court for a thousand years.

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Speaker 1: During that time, he's been just a complete disaster. Alito

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Speaker 1: is seventy six, and he seems more likely to step

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Speaker 1: down than Thomas. Both have said they won't Republican leaders are,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of offering themselves a huppus potential candidates

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Speaker 1: Daed Gruz, Mike Lee. I think is going to be

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Speaker 1: very hard for them to fill this seat for any

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Speaker 1: number of reasons, and I don't and the biggest of

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Speaker 1: which is I don't think either of those guys are

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Speaker 1: going to go. So you could see a world where

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Speaker 1: Democrats inherit a Alito or Thomas vacancy. I mean, we'll

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Speaker 1: see what happens, but it's hard to get people to

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Speaker 1: give up their seats. And eventually what I think will

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Speaker 1: happen is they will be turmaments for the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the only way that you can rebalance

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Speaker 1: the Court. There's just lifetime appointments in this particular America

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Speaker 1: don't make any sense, but we will say. Rick Wilson

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Speaker 1: is the founder of the Lincoln Parties and the host

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Speaker 1: of the Lincoln Predit podcast.

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Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, Hello, Molly, how are.

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Speaker 1: You You know? I'm just better than JD.

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Speaker 3: Vance as one would be because JD. Vans clearly has

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Speaker 3: begun to experience the uh, the great and well deserved

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Speaker 3: reputation Donald Trump has for loyalty.

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Speaker 1: I think we should call it the vice the Trump

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Speaker 1: vice presidential curse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I mean you got you had Mike, you

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Speaker 3: had Mike Pence out today on uh on the weekend shows,

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Speaker 3: one of them. I can't NBC.

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Speaker 1: I guess what are Mike pensy Today?

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Speaker 3: He was saying, Oh, well, Trump has departed from conservative principles.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you noticed you feel like when you're

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Speaker 3: trying to kill you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? That was I going to say. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that might if I call me crazy, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but Mike Pence, Yeah, the idea of a weaponization fund.

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Speaker 1: So it is interesting to me. So let's talk. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about the weaponization fund just for a second,

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Speaker 1: and then I want to talk about Trumps.

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Speaker 3: How well it's going over with Republicans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not going not It's.

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Speaker 3: Tall that even even in the public polling, you've got

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Speaker 3: about seventy five percent of Republicans who don't want to

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Speaker 3: do this thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is in I mean, it's a big number

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Speaker 1: who would live and die for Trump.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a big number. It is a real and

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Speaker 3: meaningful departure from what the normal loyalty. You know. I

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Speaker 3: was emailed with a friend of mine, Jim Left this weekend,

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Speaker 3: and he brought my attention to an article he did,

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Speaker 3: an article that Paul Krugman did about you're really starting

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Speaker 3: to bolt down, like where the hardcore of the hardcore

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Speaker 3: base is. I think Paul's assessment and Jim's assessment was,

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Speaker 3: if you think the economy is good right now, you're

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Speaker 3: the hardest of the hardcore. That's about nineteen percent, right.

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Speaker 3: And somebody from another writer said that that thirteen percent

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Speaker 3: of Americans believe in Bigfoot, right, So I think the

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Speaker 3: people that support the Weaponization Fund are probably in that

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Speaker 3: Bigfoot adjacent category of Trump's supporter.

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Speaker 1: So let's get back to Vance just dance. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we've seen basically for the last six months as sort

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Speaker 1: of like Vance v. Rubio kind of deathmatch in the media.

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Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's over in Trump's mind.

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Speaker 1: And you think Rubio's won.

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Speaker 3: I think I think Rubio has won that battle, at

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Speaker 3: least as far as Trump's affections go, right. I also

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Speaker 3: don't think the battle is over. Trump has always enjoyed

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Speaker 3: hitting his staffords, his followers against one another. And essentially

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Speaker 3: it's like doing death matches between Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you look at Marco right now, who is in Trump's mind,

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Speaker 3: you know, higher in the food chain than Advance. But

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Speaker 3: there will come a moment where Trump decides that Marco

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Speaker 3: is no longer acceptable. He always does this. This is

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Speaker 3: not ever that you can never count on your position

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Speaker 3: with Donald Trump over time. No one ever survives over time,

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Speaker 3: no matter how close they were, no matter how tight

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Speaker 3: they were with him, there will always come a day

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Speaker 3: where he lives out his little pelp piece of poetry

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Speaker 3: about the snake.

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Speaker 1: Yes, snake. The New York Times had a really good

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Speaker 1: TikTok about sort of the weaponization Fund and how we

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Speaker 1: got here.

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Speaker 3: It's going great, it's going great. People love it. It's

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Speaker 3: super popular. Yeah, no one anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And in this piece it talked about that the engine

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Speaker 1: driving the weaponization Fund. And I think there's an important

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Speaker 1: data point is the Trump personal lawyer, Boris Sheepstein.

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Speaker 3: Yes, who Boris? Boris has smartly kept his head down

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Speaker 3: a lot more in this term. Yeah, but he is

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Speaker 3: definitely the engine behind. Boris is the engine from what

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Speaker 3: I'm told, behind both the weaponization Fund and behind a

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Speaker 3: lot of the warm up act for election denial twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty six. Yeah, he's that he's part of the the

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Speaker 3: whole team that's around that Cleta Mitchell election. Uh, they're

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Speaker 3: they're prebudding the election already by saying it's all stolen.

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Speaker 3: I think Boris is sort of the the the dark

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Speaker 3: eminence inside the Trump universe right now in terms of

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Speaker 3: he's operating quietly, he's operating behind the scenes, but he's

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Speaker 3: certainly operating, and he's you can see the impact of

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Speaker 3: it in that piece.

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Speaker 1: And Boris had this audit, you know, the idea that

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Speaker 1: you can't audit tru for his kids anymore, that that

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Speaker 1: was going to somehow be government good.

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Speaker 3: Good good, good luck with that in the future, Boris,

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Speaker 3: that's gonna work out.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's just such a crazy like I thought it

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Speaker 1: was Todd Blanche coming up with it. But it makes

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Speaker 1: a lot more sense Boris.

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Speaker 3: Boris is getting And I suspect that Blanche is throwing

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Speaker 3: Boris under the bus a little bit here because Blanche

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Speaker 3: has starting to feel a lot of a lot more

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Speaker 3: heat and anxiety than he should be feeling in his mind.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 3: He deserves it. Don't don't say I mean Blanche deserves

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Speaker 3: everything he's gonna get. But but I think he is

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Speaker 3: tossing Boris a little bit of the press, a little

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Speaker 3: bit of Boris meat, so that they will look away

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Speaker 3: from him. Yes, while he has to start answering more

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Speaker 3: of these these Epstein really Epstein not Sheen related questions

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Speaker 3: in the immediate future.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, it's funny because one of the report,

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Speaker 1: the reporting sort of last week's really big story from

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Speaker 1: the Times was about a sort of Marco Vance runoff,

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Speaker 1: which had a lot of stuff that I that seemed

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Speaker 1: like it was coming from Trump world about Marco Vance.

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Speaker 1: Remember the number one leaker in the Trump White House,

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Speaker 1: it's Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people, if you hear a source close to the president,

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Speaker 3: sixty percent of the time is the president. So when you.

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Speaker 1: Read these closely reported stories.

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Speaker 3: Especially stories from people that we know, and let's be

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Speaker 3: real about that. You know you and I know a

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Speaker 3: lot of those people that get those phone calls, but

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: But that a lot of times it's Trump trying to

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Speaker 1: shape the narrative about his predecessors, his predecessors, his successors.

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Speaker 3: One of the favorite, one of my favorite things that

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Speaker 3: Trump does with these with reporters is he'll say to

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Speaker 3: a reporter, all my friends are asking me, is JD

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Speaker 3: doing a good job. I'm hearing people are asking about

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Speaker 3: whether JD is doing a good job. That means Trump

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Speaker 3: wants to evoke that answer from people, and they he

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Speaker 3: and they get it inside that world, they get it

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Speaker 3: that Trump wants them to say, no, sir, he's doing

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Speaker 3: a terrible job. You should replace him with someone better.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's not subtle about it.

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Speaker 1: There's no gym. There's no there's no gym.

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Speaker 3: It's all Donald, It's all done. One of John Barrons.

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Speaker 1: One of the things in this piece so that he

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Speaker 1: talks about is the idea that Vance takes too many vacations.

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Speaker 3: You saw that, right, Yeah, I mean, I guess, but

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Speaker 3: it look Donald Trump just he's too chicken shit to

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Speaker 3: fire him. And really, actually, there's probably not really a

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Speaker 3: great way to do it.

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Speaker 1: Constitutionally, Vice President.

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Speaker 3: No, That's what I'm saying is there's not really a

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Speaker 3: way to do it in the constitution. But that wouldn't

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Speaker 3: stop Donald Trump if he really really got a you

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Speaker 3: know got got his hard on to do it. He

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Speaker 3: would he would do it. But I do think, Molly,

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Speaker 3: we're at a point now where you look at where

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Speaker 3: Trump sees the immediate future he sees every time he

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Speaker 3: says I don't care about the midterms, it means he

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Speaker 3: cares very deeply about the midterms, right. I think he's

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Speaker 3: starting to try to shape the future to pick out

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Speaker 3: who he wants as the golden child for MAGA. And

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Speaker 3: you notice he said over the weekend or they are

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Speaker 3: during the I guess at the end of the week

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Speaker 3: there's that big meeting with Candace and Tucker all these

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Speaker 3: people who are MAGA but opposed to the Gulf War.

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Speaker 3: Are the Iran war good Fredian slip Wilson, Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: he came out and says, well, they're not MAGA. I'm MAGA.

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Speaker 3: I'll decide who's MAGA, right. And I think he's starting

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Speaker 3: to look at himself as the kingmaker to come in

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Speaker 3: the immediate years ahead of him, however many there are left.

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Speaker 3: And so I think that's why you're getting this sort

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Speaker 3: of vibe of competition between Vance and Rubio, and you're

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Speaker 3: going to start seeing him mentioning senators or governors that

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Speaker 3: he likes. You're going to see him play the game.

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Speaker 3: He's going to throw meat out there to make them

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Speaker 3: all compete for his love.

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Speaker 1: Right, he just liked it with his children's kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's also important to like, this is

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Speaker 1: all happening with the backdrop of like quietly fired to

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Speaker 1: see bondye Gnome nail In from the Navy walls was

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Speaker 1: moved to not from national security, national security age or

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Speaker 1: a national security advisor to you in, which is a

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Speaker 1: nothing burger job.

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Speaker 3: Right, So those are five jobs, so nothing burger. They

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Speaker 3: wouldn't even give it to a least aphonic that's right.

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Speaker 1: But all those people are gone, quietly mushed, right.

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Speaker 3: And and a lot more below that water line that

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Speaker 3: we don't pay as much attention to. There has been

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Speaker 3: a good amount of churn in the first year of

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Speaker 3: this administration. But it's it's it's not as splashy and

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Speaker 3: as visible with some of the people. But and he

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Speaker 3: learned that trick of oh no, no, Christy Nolan wasn't fired.

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Speaker 3: I never fired her. She's fine. I put her to

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Speaker 3: the guardian ship of the Shield of America.

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Speaker 4: Whatever.

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Speaker 1: We never heard from those people ever again.

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Speaker 3: It's all gone.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to watch this crew and then to watch

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump spend most of his time trying to purge

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Speaker 1: a publican party of people he doesn't want.

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Speaker 3: You know what, We talked about it last time. And

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Speaker 3: he got rid of John Cornyn because he wanted to

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Speaker 3: get rid of John Cornyn. He just didn't like John

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Speaker 3: Corny because John Cornyn wasn't with him one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: of the time on every single issue, every single time.

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Speaker 3: You know what. Now you got Ken Paxton, a degenerate

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Speaker 3: criminal who is who's corrupted at a level that even

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Speaker 3: makes Texas corruption look look extremely corrupt. It takes a lot, right,

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Speaker 3: And you've got Tallerico who, no matter how much they

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Speaker 3: bleat and scream, he's a transexual New River. You know what,

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Speaker 3: he's a young guy. He's our ticket. It as hell,

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Speaker 3: he's got a hot girlfriend. None of it is going

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Speaker 3: to shape the election as none of the none of

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Speaker 3: the MAGA talking points are going to shape the election

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Speaker 3: as much as the reality that Ken Paxton is a

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Speaker 3: criminal and a degenerate.

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Speaker 1: So Ken Baxton has survived impeachment, right he has. His

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Speaker 1: wife did.

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Speaker 3: Not because his sugar daddy bribed the Texas State Senate.

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Speaker 1: Right they went. He went around and tried and told

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Speaker 1: people he would primary them if they voted for impeachment

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Speaker 1: or for removal. So he got impeached, but now removed.

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Speaker 3: Right and and and he is you know, the the

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Speaker 3: oil and gas folks that are in sugar Daddy's really

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Speaker 3: went full bore and they went pedal to the medal

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Speaker 3: for him, and they saved him.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at the polling out of Texas,

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Speaker 1: what you see is that he is not the tall

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Speaker 1: Rico is up a point or two. And if you

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Speaker 1: or you know or more or more, yeah, versus in

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Speaker 1: the governorship like a that who's not a great guy

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Speaker 1: by any stretchy imagination is still ahead.

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Speaker 3: Ken Paxon is uniquely vulnerable in this race for the

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Speaker 3: publicly facing nature of cheating on his wife, of having

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Speaker 3: this affair with this maga mama influencer whoever she is,

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Speaker 3: with seven children, of being a you know, he's the

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Speaker 3: guy who stole somebody else's pen and practically I had

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Speaker 3: to go to court for the guy to get it back.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's the guy who stole the cake somebody

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Speaker 3: delivered to his office so we could take it home

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Speaker 3: for himself. It's I mean that that's an actual story

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Speaker 3: I read the other day. I was like, God, bless.

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Speaker 3: But Paxxon is also narrow casting and Texas is a

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Speaker 3: very conservative state. But Paxton is narrow casting to Texas.

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Speaker 3: Right now, what is the It is the you know

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Speaker 3: all maga all the time culture war stuff, and right

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Speaker 3: now the electorate in Texas doesn't look like it did

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. Hispanics have silda Republican area. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're done. We're divorcing you.

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Speaker 4: We're over.

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Speaker 3: It's over. We played we had a hot affair in

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Speaker 3: twenty four. It didn't work out. You killed the economy,

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Speaker 3: you idiots. And so it's a lot harder for Paxton

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Speaker 3: to put that winning coalition together than it was before,

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Speaker 3: especially because of his own character flaws.

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Speaker 1: And one of the important points when you talk about

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Speaker 1: this Hispanics breaking with Trump is that these are the

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Speaker 1: numbers that the Republicans have used for the Texas Jerry Mander.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes it is. And they built a model that

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Speaker 3: was based on the voter performance for the general election

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Speaker 3: in the fall of twenty twenty four, and because Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump was on that ballot, that number was higher. The

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Speaker 3: lower propensity. Hispanic voters that were that were Trump curious

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Speaker 3: came out in twenty four. They're not on that ballot now.

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Speaker 3: So you've got a bunch of seats in Texas that

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Speaker 3: are actually now vulnerable because Donald Trump is not on

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Speaker 3: the ballot and because the economic premise that they bought

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Speaker 3: into in twenty twenty four, not only was it delivered

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Speaker 3: on by Trump, the opposite was what Trump delivered. He

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Speaker 3: didn't deliver economic prosperity. He delivered economic misery at a

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Speaker 3: scale that these people are are not going to readily

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Speaker 3: just say Okay, no problem, all is forgiven, Donald, No

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Speaker 3: harm done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's something that is kind of important.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's very important. And I think what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing right now with Paxton trying to turn this

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Speaker 3: into the culture war game, it's like that you need

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Speaker 3: a symphony orchestra to win a big election like this,

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Speaker 3: and he's got a one note flute. He doesn't have

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Speaker 3: the same ability to make people go, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: he's so liberal. He's a liberal liberal that Teler goes

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Speaker 3: to liberal for Texas when the economy is burning down

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Speaker 3: around us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, five dollar gas is not and even in Texas.

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Speaker 3: Even in Texas, I mean in the Week's Greatest Self

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Speaker 3: own Ted Cruise and I just paid three to ninety

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Speaker 3: nine for gas. Oh oh yeah, that makes it all

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Speaker 3: better for a family that's struggling on a on you know,

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Speaker 3: to get buy on a sixty thousand dollars income.

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Speaker 1: Well, the good news is that Ted Cruse's wife works

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Speaker 1: for Goldman's Act. I would love you to talk about

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Speaker 1: the grand Platner situation. Grander Yeah, mean candidate polling pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Wife tells campaign director political director that there are texts

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Speaker 1: of so. I mean, I think this is important a

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Speaker 1: because it means that these texts they knew about them,

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Speaker 1: The campaign knew about them. The political director decided to

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Speaker 1: tell us about this.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, well, the political director left the campaign.

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Speaker 1: She seems really mad. I mean, obviously, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was not good that he did this sexting. They made

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Speaker 1: it sound like he did it before they were married,

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Speaker 1: but that's not right.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I haven't I haven't been able to

438
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: dig into it beyond that one piece that's out right now.

439
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what. If we're in a world

440
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 3: where where we're worried about Graham Plattner having having had

441
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 3: some spicy texts with women. That is an issue with

442
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: Graham platter and his wife. Yeah, if they're going to

443
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: make this a character test, here's the character test that

444
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 3: I think is important. In Maine, Susan Collins is voted

445
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 3: with Donald Trump ninety seven point seven percent of the time.

446
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: She is Donald Trump's slave. She will do whatever Donald

447
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: Trump tells her in the end, no matter what public posture,

448
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 3: her polsters, and her consultants tell her, she will always

449
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: be a reliable vote for Donald Trump. She is fine

450
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: with Donald Trump being Epstein adjacent. She is fine with

451
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: Donald Trump burning the country to the ground. She is

452
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: fine with Donald Trump doing the most running the most

453
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 3: corrupt and a moral administration in history. And if I'm

454
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: Graham Plattner, I say I'm a man. I fucked up.

455
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 3: I apologize to my wife. You know what, I'm going

456
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: to move forward on this. If you don't want to

457
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: vote for me because I sent some texts, great, don't.

458
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 3: But if you want to vote for Susan Collins, you

459
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 3: know what you're getting. And what you're getting is somebody

460
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: who is a slave to Donald Trump and will never

461
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: defy Donald Trump. Under any circumstances. And that's why they

462
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: pay me the medium sized bucks.

463
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, though, how much of this

464
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: is anxiety about Federman?

465
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: Oh? Oh, oh, A meaningful amount. I think that's a

466
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: really good insight. I think a meaningful amount. Because Fetterman

467
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: was the dream date, yeah, and suddenly.

468
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: Dressed cool, acted weird.

469
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of a weirdo, you know, kind of a

470
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: great narrative. And what happened to Fetterman. Actually, let me

471
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: rephrase that, what happened to the Democratic Party because of

472
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: their embrace of Fetterman is wigging out a few people.

473
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 3: But I honestly think Molly Plattner is a different character.

474
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 3: And again, we live in a world where if we

475
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: believe that our candidates are our characters from the West Wing,

476
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: we will always be disappointed.

477
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: What I think is so important about the Federal about

478
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: the Federalman, about the story, the Platner story, is that

479
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: ultimately it is up to the people of main Like,

480
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: neither you nor I will even vote in this primary.

481
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: We will not.

482
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: So if the people mayn feel that he is what

483
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: they want to represent him them, then they will vote

484
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: for him.

485
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: And if not, you know, if I were a main voter,

486
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: I would take the flawed Graham Platiner over the compromised

487
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: Susan Collins.

488
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

489
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: The things that are at stake right now, you know,

490
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: I look a lot of it, Like people that are

491
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: recruited for Special Forces assignments are occasionally not the perfect

492
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: individuals you want to have over for a dinner party,

493
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: but they are the guy who will go out and

494
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: do the actual work that he's doing at that moment.

495
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a sense here that you got

496
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 3: to keep this in you got to keep this in

497
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: the frame of what you're what you're voting on. You're

498
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: voting on whether Donald Trump gets another Supreme Court justice

499
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 3: when Clarence Thomas dies. You're voting on Donald Trump being

500
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: able to control the Senate of the United States of America.

501
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: And I think those steaks. I'll take a grand Platner

502
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: all day long if those are the stakes. And yeah,

503
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 3: you know what he should do. He should straighten his

504
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: shot out.

505
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, Yes.

506
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: Ma'am, are you gonna have me back again?

507
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll see, maybe maybe not. Tom Moore

508
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: is a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress. Welcome, Welcome, Tom,

509
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: Thanks Biley, glad to be here, so excited to have you.

510
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: And let's talk about what's happening in Hawai. I mean

511
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: unbelievable stuff.

512
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. Governor Dass Green signs the bill into law that

513
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 4: will disempower corporations operating in Hawaii.

514
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: Basically, Citizens United is ruining our world, that's right, and

515
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: our Supreme Court is very trumpy, very corporate. The only

516
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: thing they love more than Donald Trump is corporations. Now,

517
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: there's a sort of work around here, and this is

518
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: a plan that you came up with. Yeah, so talk

519
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: us through this plan that you came up with. What's

520
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: it called? What's the work around? And also more importantly,

521
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: how did you come up with that?

522
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

523
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 4: So this is a way of using tools that have

524
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: been sitting in states corporation laws for more than a

525
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 4: century to get at Citizens United. The problem of Citizens United. Basically,

526
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 4: states create corporations. They give them all their powers, the

527
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: power to own property, the power to sign contracts. And

528
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 4: about one hundred years ago, all the states gave all

529
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 4: the corporations, all the time, all the power to do

530
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 4: anything legal or anything that a human could do, and

531
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 4: it just kind of sat there for the last one

532
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: hundred years, and then we get these cases like Citizens United,

533
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 4: where the Court said, like, well, they've got this power

534
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 4: to everything a human can do, so they must have

535
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: the power to spending elections like humans, and let's talk

536
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 4: about their right to do it. And the kind of

537
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 4: fatal assumption that they made was that these states were

538
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: always going to give their corporations this power. But there's

539
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 4: this whole separate line of cases that's two oundred years

540
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: long that says that states can change up these powers

541
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 4: at any time. And then all corporations actually have baked

542
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: into their charters the idea that states can change up

543
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 4: any of it or get rid of them all together

544
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 4: at any time. And the Supreme Court they're not corporate

545
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 4: law experts, and they actually kind of mangled a lot

546
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: of corporate law in their Citizens United decision. But what

547
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: they assumed was this idea that the states would never

548
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: ever ever change it, although there are all these cases

549
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 4: that say that they can, and now Hawaii has and

550
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 4: that's a huge deal.

551
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: Explain what that means. How they do that.

552
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 4: It's an incredibly simple move. It just says like, hey,

553
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: instead of having all the powers to do everything legal,

554
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: that you know, everything that a human can do. We're

555
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 4: gonna give you all the powers you need to run

556
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: your business, except the power to spend in politics. We're

557
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: just not going to grant you that power anymore. And

558
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: without the power to do it, they've redefined their corporations

559
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 4: as entities that don't have the capacity to do it.

560
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 4: Without the power to do it, they're the right to

561
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: do it doesn't be you know, there's nothing for that

562
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: right to attach to. That right attached to corporations that

563
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: had the power. And if you're talking to a corporation

564
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: that doesn't have the power, the rights discussion doesn't even

565
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 4: touch that corporation.

566
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: We got to get an example here, you are a corporation,

567
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: you're giving money to a candidate. This would affect people

568
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: running for office, and why right, it wouldn't necessarily affect

569
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: federal candidate. It's what it So here's the thing.

570
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: This is weird because this is something that state law

571
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 4: doesn't usually do. Usually the thought is like, okay, for

572
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 4: federal candidate's House, Senate, presidency, Congress has occupied the field.

573
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 4: They've got the federal Election campaign Acts. You know that

574
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 4: rules everything. States can't do anything about that. But this

575
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: is coming out of from the other direction. It's not

576
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: regulation of any of that. States can't do that. But

577
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: corporations get all of their powers from the state. They

578
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: get the power to spend in local elections from the state,

579
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: to get their power to spend state elections from the state.

580
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: They get their power to spend in federal elections from

581
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: the state. So if the state of Hawaii is saying, hey, corporations,

582
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: if you're chartered by so, if you're operating as a

583
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: corporation in our state from anywhere else, we're not giving

584
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: you that power at all to spend. And so it

585
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: knocks them out of federal races as well, not just

586
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: state and local races.

587
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: But you have to be incorporated in the state of Hawaii.

588
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: So if you're a corporation, now all right, keep going.

589
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: There's another part that's already in Hawaii law and in

590
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 4: every state's law that says no out of state corporation

591
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 4: can exercise any power in this state that a domestic

592
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 4: corporation can't exercise. And usually with state's get in trouble

593
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: with that, it's because they decapped the local guys. They

594
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 4: mecap the out of state guys to help the local

595
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 4: guys and in this case, what Hawaii's done is they've

596
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 4: necapped the local guys and they dragged down the out

597
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 4: of state guys to the same level, so nobody has

598
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 4: the power to spend in politics. They disempowered the corporate

599
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 4: form from spending in politics in Hawaii, no matter where

600
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 4: that corporation is created.

601
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: So what does this mean like for the next election cycle.

602
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 4: It means that people have some hope that this can change.

603
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 4: In Hawaii. It means their elections are going to change.

604
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 4: January first, twenty twenty seven, that's the effective date of that.

605
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: It's a little close to the twenty twenty six election

606
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 4: to throw any of these things in Montana's got a

607
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 4: similar ballot initiative rolling that is, that got work to do,

608
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 4: but it is rolling toward toward passage that would go

609
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 4: to effect January first, twenty twenty seven. What it means

610
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: is there's going to be a huge court case and

611
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 4: it's probably going to go to the Supreme Court, and

612
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 4: plenty of reasons why it'll.

613
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: Win because there's precedent.

614
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: There's precedent. But so there's there's kind of like three

615
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: levels to this. People who are who talk a lot

616
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: about campaign financial and election gold just say like, oh no,

617
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: they're just gonna flip it. They don't care what the laws,

618
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 4: They're just gonna flip it. And it's like, okay, well, yes,

619
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 4: they totally could flip it. That's within their power. But

620
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: that's the easy part. The hard part is because we're

621
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 4: in this power granting realm rather than regulatory realm. You know,

622
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 4: we're not taking anything away from anybody, we're giving to

623
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 4: these corporations. Courts don't have a lot of tools in

624
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 4: that toolbox, and it's a totally different set of tools

625
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 4: that they would use to strike down a regulation. So

626
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: the remedies they have are very very limited, and they

627
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: set off all kinds of right and consequences.

628
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: You know.

629
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 4: Part of Hawaii's constitution says we could never ever send

630
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: anything out, any kind of privilege out that we can't

631
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: take back. And if the court flipped that, if the

632
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 4: Supreme Court flipped that, they will be telling Hawaii like,

633
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 4: well that you can't create that kind of corporation where

634
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 4: you can take everything back. It would actually could get

635
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 4: Hawaii out of the corporate creation business altogether. And twenty

636
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 4: four other states have constitutional provisions just like that, and

637
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 4: it would get them out as well. So I don't

638
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 4: think it's going to happen, but it's a warning to

639
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court that flipping this is not as easy

640
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: as flipping a regulation. It is a can of words

641
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: you don't want to open.

642
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: So could we end up going back to just normal

643
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: campaign give it?

644
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, And I think the day that the Supreme

645
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 4: Court either decides that they can't stomach the consequences, or

646
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 4: if they decided the two hundred years of corporate law

647
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: precedent is actually correct and that this is a matter

648
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: of state authority and states can set up corporations however

649
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 4: they want, which has been the law for tw hundred years,

650
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 4: they might just go for that. Then that will be

651
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 4: the day. The day the Court makes that decision, that'll

652
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: be the day that I think this starts moving in

653
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: every state. We actually had bills moving in fifteen states

654
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 4: this year, including Hawaii, and you know, first year out

655
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 4: weird new concept, nobody's ever seen anything like it. It

656
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: didn't get very far in most of those In most

657
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 4: of those states, Hawaii was the very welcome exception, very

658
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 4: pleasant surprice. But next year, I expect, you know, probably

659
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 4: double that. You know, we'll have bills going all over

660
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 4: the country, and sometimes you know they'll they'll sit there

661
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 4: and they will get through. But that bill is sitting

662
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 4: on the shelf, and if there's a big moment, like

663
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court says this is okay, that's when those

664
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 4: bills will be pulled off the shelf. So I think

665
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: this could roll very quickly at that moment.

666
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: So if it happened, what do you think our campaign

667
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: finance will look like when this passes?

668
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 4: Basically, all the money in that state's politics, federal, state, local,

669
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: ballot issues, every dollar, every dollar comes from a human being,

670
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: Every dollar is disclosed, and every dollar is voluntary. And

671
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 4: that's a huge deal. That is so much better than

672
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 4: what we have now. The one big thing it does

673
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 4: not handle, because that corporate related, it's individual spending is

674
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 4: Elon Musk wants to cut a two hundred fifty million

675
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: dollars check to a superpack. He's going to be able

676
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 4: to do that. Harvard law professor Larry Lessig is working

677
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 4: on that online angle in the first circuit. God speed

678
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 4: to him on that. But what this will do, what

679
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 4: my approach will do, with CAP's approach will do is

680
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: stop Musk from doing it, dark from routing it through

681
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 4: a dark money group, laundering that money and making sure

682
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 4: that nobody can see who the money came from, which,

683
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: to be clear, he wrote a lot of he read

684
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 4: a huge check to in twenty twenty four to help

685
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: Trump get elected, and he put his name to that,

686
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 4: but he also had a bunch of money running through

687
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 4: LLC's in Texas. The New York Times did a good

688
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,959
Speaker 4: story on this that was totally dark that nobody knew about,

689
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 4: and we don't really know how much money was spent

690
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 4: that way. This would cut all of that out, and

691
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 4: it matters to the voters if they can see, like, Okay,

692
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: this horrible super pac ad I can see that it's

693
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 4: being was paid for by Elon Musk. That makes a

694
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 4: difference to the voters.

695
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: That is helpful to voters, right, And we saw that

696
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: in the Wisconsin exactly judiciary that people don't love a

697
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: Elon Musk backed candidate. So in Delaware there's this can

698
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: you talk about this corporations voting?

699
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a weird situation. A weird case came out

700
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 4: of Fenwick Island, Delaware this week. And I'm not fully

701
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 4: converse in all the details, so I make it some

702
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 4: this wrong. But the judge there ruled that corporations can vote,

703
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 4: and everyone's like woop, like that like this it's kind

704
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: of like the like the the next step of citizens,

705
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 4: and everyone's kind of afraid of There's some weird circumstances there.

706
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 4: Apparently in Fenwick Island, a lot of the properties owed

707
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 4: by people who have put their property into trusts, and

708
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 4: so either the people can vote or the trust can vote,

709
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 4: but not both. It's kind of an odd circumstance, but

710
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 4: it shows that it's the kind of thing that if

711
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 4: the citizens of Delaware so like, wait a minute, we

712
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: don't want that, they could decide through their legislature to

713
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: no longer empower corporations in the state of Delaware to

714
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 4: vote in elections. I mean they they could just say, like,

715
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 4: we don't corporations chartered here or operating here, don't do that.

716
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 4: You know, this is something that what's kind of cool

717
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 4: about this approach is is that it kind of reconfigures

718
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 4: the whole relationship between people and corporations. It's like, look,

719
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 4: they don't work for their shareholders. Corporations do not work

720
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: for their shareholders. They work for us because we create them,

721
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: and we say what they are, and we say what

722
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 4: powers they have through our legislatures, and if they're doing

723
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 4: something we don't like, like wrecking our politics by spending

724
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 4: unlimited amounts of money independently, we can take that power back,

725
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 4: like we don't need to, We don't need to create

726
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 4: a monster that's going to destroy us. But that's not

727
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 4: the way people have thought about corporations really for the

728
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 4: last one hundred years, which is kind of cool.

729
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: Oh wow, and that is incredible. So you think that

730
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: this step of focusing on the corporations will lead us

731
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: to better election reform.

732
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's given a lot of folks some hope and

733
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: some feeling that they have agency in their democracy, which

734
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 4: for sixteen years the citizens united and we were really denied.

735
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I was like, that is a fortress. It

736
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 4: is impregnable. There's no way around it. Just suck it

737
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: up and enjoy all the super pac ads because you

738
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 4: can't do anything about it. You can try for a

739
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 4: federal constitutional moment, good luck with that. You can wait

740
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 4: for a new Supreme Court, good luck with that.

741
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: And that was it.

742
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 4: I mean, that was that's the way I felt for

743
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: most of these years. But now there's this way where

744
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 4: people in each state can rise up and change their

745
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 4: laws and no longer empower these corporations to do these

746
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: And I think what that will do is this hope

747
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: and this agency that it gives people will give them

748
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: hope an agency to try other things as well, you know,

749
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 4: whether it's yeah, I mean there's there's there's a ton

750
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 4: of great, great election reforms out there that really would

751
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 4: make a difference just on the way elections are actually run,

752
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 4: and I think this will fuel all of that.

753
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: It sounds like it will. It's like an interesting way

754
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: to sort of pull back and get into it in

755
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: a totally different way.

756
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: Yeah. I get hassled about this sometimes. It's like, if

757
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 4: it's so simple, why didn't anybody think of it before?

758
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: And it's like, I don't know't it took me ten

759
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: years to get to it. But it's basically, you've got

760
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 4: you You've got corporate law folks and election law folks,

761
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: and they don't seem to talk to each other very much.

762
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 4: When I brought this through corporate law folks, they're like,

763
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: oh yeah, that, yep, one hundred percent makes total sense,

764
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 4: which the election law of people, but not there yet.

765
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: If you go down this path with election corporation's law, Like,

766
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: where else can this go?

767
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is this is something that I've not

768
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 4: run down all the possibilities on because I'm laser focused

769
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: on getting this political spending power.

770
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

771
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 4: But think about any thing that corporations are doing that

772
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: you don't like if it can be reduced to a

773
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 4: power that the state is giving them, Like maybe you

774
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 4: just don't give that power anymore. And it could be

775
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 4: a matter of the power to externalize your environmental costs,

776
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 4: the power to misuse your customer's data. There are all

777
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 4: kinds of things like that, and in some ways all

778
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 4: of those are less fraught than you know, political spending,

779
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 4: which has all these First Amendment things tied up in it.

780
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 4: A lot of these others do not. But throughout the

781
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 4: nineteenth century, everyone was totally afraid of corporate power because

782
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 4: they afraid that they would gain too much power, gain

783
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 4: too much money, gain too much influence, buy too much property,

784
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: all these things. And they were right. And you know,

785
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 4: we've spent the last one hundred years kind of learning

786
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 4: that lesson. Maybe we need to pull out the tools

787
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 4: that I've been sitting in the law since the eighteen

788
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 4: hundreds it kind of reel some of that back and

789
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 4: say like, you know, actually, no, you cannot just do

790
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 4: with us whatever you want.

791
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: You can't do with us whatever you want. Tom Moore,

792
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you. What a cool thing to have

793
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: the creator of this great idea on this podcast talking

794
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: about how it could work.

795
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: Willy, No moment, so time.

796
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 1: It's that time again, Rog Wilson.

797
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: I know it's that time every week, and I love it.

798
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 3: It's my favorite time of the week. It's the time

799
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: for fuckery.

800
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: That's right. What is your moment of.

801
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery? This week is the Fire Festival

802
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: two hundred and fiftieth Anniversary of America celebration where not

803
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 3: even Morris Day and the time, not even Millie Vanilly,

804
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: not even Brett Michaels is willing to perform at a

805
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: Donald Trump branded event at this point. Now Trump has

806
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 3: quote unquote fired the entertainment and he's going to perform itself.

807
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. Brett Michaels said it's too hot for him.

808
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, the guy from Poison says it's too hot.

809
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: He wants to avoid controversy. Do you remember when rock

810
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: stars used to bite the heads off of animals?

811
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was Ozzy. But yeah, but and I'm sure

812
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: I could go back in my memory somewhere and think

813
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,479
Speaker 3: of Brett Michael Sings from the poison era.

814
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: Let's just remember he had a dating show where he

815
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: would choose which woman to fuck each night.

816
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: Right A deep cut from JC here.

817
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had forgotten about that.

818
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: Feminist icon, Bret Michael Michaels.

819
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, if even these people Milli Vanilly. You know, these

820
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: guys are not getting a lot of work. They're all

821
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: turning this down because it's so radioactive? Is it Milly

822
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: or Vanilly? I just don't. I don't know.

823
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: I was letting you have that joke. They're all turning

824
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: it down because the brand is so bad, so toxic.

825
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: Now the irony is, you could probably still get Jeff Bezos,

826
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: any Elon Musk there, and any billionaire you'd want.

827
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: I mean, who doesn't love to watch the comedy styling

828
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: of Jeff Bezos?

829
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: So, Donald Trump, you could probably just get some billionaires

830
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 1: have them fight each other.

831
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 3: I love this. You could combine the UFC fight with

832
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: the performance, and if it was a battle to the death,

833
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 3: I think America would on a pay per view basis,

834
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: would would really chip into take down the national debt.

835
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 3: In this corner, Elon Musk with a chainsaw, in this corner,

836
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: machine gun.

837
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna die, all right.

838
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: I see you next time.

839
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

840
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

841
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

842
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

843
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.