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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we're going on tour and you can come

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Speaker 1: out and see us in Orlando on August twelfth, Nashville

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Speaker 1: on September sixth, and we're gonna wrap it all up

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Speaker 1: on September ninth in our hometown of Atlanta, GA.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And these are the last shows of the year.

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Speaker 2: This has been a really good show this year. We're

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Speaker 2: super excited about it, and this is going to be

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Speaker 2: your only chance to be in the theater with us,

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Speaker 2: and you know, like fifteen sixteen hundred of your closest pals.

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Speaker 1: So go to stuff youshould know dot com and check

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Speaker 1: out our tour page for links and information, and you

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Speaker 1: can also go to link tree slash sysk for the

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Speaker 1: same stuff. We'll see you guys this August and September.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and jerryse here. We're all feeling bright eyed and

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Speaker 1: bushy tailed in chipperd. Why aren't you not me?

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Speaker 2: I'm sleepy.

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Speaker 1: Are you really sleepy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: How do you sleep?

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Speaker 2: Uh, like side sleeper or just generally? Yeah, Uh, my

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Speaker 2: sleep is pretty good. I get up a lot to

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Speaker 2: go potty too, but I've gotten way better, probably since

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Speaker 2: I've had a kid, of being able to fall back

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Speaker 2: asleep pretty easily, whereas I used to not be so

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Speaker 2: good at that. And that's a real key to getting

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Speaker 2: good sleep is because very few people I think adults

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Speaker 2: are I mean some are, but are just so sound

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Speaker 2: that they're just rocks through the night. You gotta be

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Speaker 2: able to get back to sleep. If you start thinking

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Speaker 2: about stuff, then your toast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some people have trouble falling back asleep. Some people, chuck,

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Speaker 1: get this, have trouble falling asleep initially.

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Speaker 2: Even I have a lot of empathy for people with

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Speaker 2: chronic insomnia, which we're talking about insomnia. It just sounds

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Speaker 2: like a terrible thing. Uh. We've talked about fatal familie insomnia. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we've talked about like how much sleep do people need?

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Speaker 2: That was one of the early early ones.

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Speaker 1: And is science phasing out sleep? That was about new tropics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was really surprised that we hadn't just

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Speaker 2: done a regular old insomnia. But big thanks to the

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Speaker 2: National Institute of Health and Sleep Foundation. Yes, our old

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Speaker 2: friends at houstuffworks dot com Okay, University of Pennsylvania, Harvard.

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Speaker 2: I got a lot of different sources for this one.

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Speaker 2: And here we go with insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I guess we're starting, everybody. It was a pre amble,

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Speaker 1: so I thought that this definition of insomnia was about

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Speaker 1: as succinct as it can be. It's a sleep disorder

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Speaker 1: characterized by difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep, or both. This

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Speaker 1: is very important, even if you have ample time to

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Speaker 1: fall asleep or sleep, even if you have a bedroom

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Speaker 1: environment conducive to RESTful sleep. So you, guys, are everything

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Speaker 1: you need to sleep, and you still can't sleep, you

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Speaker 1: still can't stay asleep or both.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you, and we'll get to all the different kinds.

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Speaker 2: It gets a little confusing. Actually, I'm still not one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent sure how to classify the different types of insomnia.

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Speaker 1: I think they rolled it all together.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, true, But if you you know, if you

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Speaker 2: live next door to or above an apartment above like

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Speaker 2: a loud club, or if you recently had like a

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Speaker 2: big shift in your work hours like these are all

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Speaker 2: reasons that you might not be able to get to

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Speaker 2: sleep and you may have insomnia. But and again we'll

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Speaker 2: go over all these and more detail. But that is

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Speaker 2: like a temporary or transient insomnia. Transient if it's if

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Speaker 2: it's really just a few days, like if you have

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Speaker 2: jet lag or something, and then if it's a few

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Speaker 2: days into it, like a week or two, then it

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Speaker 2: can then it travels to what's the other gun n

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Speaker 2: no no, no, acute insomnia and then chronic is the

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Speaker 2: the really really tough one.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, we'll break all that out, but we should

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Speaker 1: talk talk a little more about what happens with insomnia

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Speaker 1: and like what's required to actually get a diagnosis, because

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Speaker 1: it's not enough to show up and say like I'm

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Speaker 1: having trouble sleeping that you have to say I'm having

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Speaker 1: trouble sleeping and I can't finish the sentence during the

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Speaker 1: day because I'm so tired.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you also, the first thing your doctor is

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Speaker 2: going to say is like how much sleep you're getting,

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Speaker 2: because as we went over in are do you.

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Speaker 1: Really say sleep none?

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Speaker 2: Do you really need to sleep? Episode? And it's a

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Speaker 2: big swath. It's interesting when you look at the breakdown

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Speaker 2: of how much sleep you need as you age. I

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Speaker 2: can't remember what it was for preteen.

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Speaker 1: It's like a million hours a day, it was.

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Speaker 2: A lot, but thirteen to eighteen it's eight to ten hours.

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Speaker 2: And then they say between eighteen, once you hit eighteen,

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Speaker 2: all the way up into sixty four years of age,

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Speaker 2: you need about six to eight hours. No, no, no, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: seven to nine hours, right, and then once you get

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Speaker 2: a little bit older than sixty, that actually goes down

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Speaker 2: to seven to eight instead of seven to nine.

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Speaker 1: You know what sucks, though, is I saw not necessarily

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Speaker 1: that you need less sleep as you age, but that

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Speaker 1: you get less sleep as you age, whether you want

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Speaker 1: to or not, because your sleep deteriorates, your ability to

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Speaker 1: sleep deteriorates because your brain should over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you and I know that you can testify

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Speaker 2: to this, but as you get older, the ability for

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Speaker 2: most people to sleep in is really what goes.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad for that. I've actually started getting up earlier

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Speaker 1: and earlier. And I like, no kidding, yeah, why I

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Speaker 1: know some of the time stamps on emails I've sent you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like I get alerts or anything. It's

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Speaker 2: not like you're waking me up. But I'll see emails

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Speaker 2: from you in like the six o four range. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: all right, Josh, is at it man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've already had my coffee and gone for

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Speaker 1: a jog by then.

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Speaker 2: I get up early too, and I am glad for

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Speaker 2: it because I like mornings and I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of good work is done in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I say.

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Speaker 2: If I can sleep until eight am, that's ah, that's a.

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Speaker 1: I would feel like I wasted the entire day if

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Speaker 1: I slept till eight.

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Speaker 2: I would feel like I.

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Speaker 1: Must have raved all night if I if I woke

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Speaker 1: up at eight.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes I'm the earliest riser in my house, like

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Speaker 2: on weekends. Emily can still sleep. I mean, she has

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Speaker 2: bouts of insomnia for sure, but when she sleeps, she

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Speaker 2: can she can rocket. Man, that's awesome. Yeah, ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: or so if I if it happens.

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Speaker 1: Pretty enviable, No kidding, Yeah, I haven't done that in

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Speaker 1: a really long long time.

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Speaker 2: How does um sleep?

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Speaker 1: She sleeps fine, I mean.

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Speaker 2: But does she get up earlier? Does she sleep a

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Speaker 2: little later?

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Speaker 1: She gets up, She's awake earlier then she gets up

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Speaker 1: because Momo sleeps in later.

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Speaker 2: So there's just like morning bed relaxation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you doesn't want to disturb Mo because MO

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Speaker 1: will follow her out and like it'll it'll affect her

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Speaker 1: last like hour of sleep. So yeah, she hangs out

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Speaker 1: with mo and does less stuff.

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Speaker 2: Amen. Uh that that that weekend spend that first hour

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Speaker 2: in bed doing stuff is very nice and relaxing totally.

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Speaker 1: You mean like you mean barbecue.

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Speaker 2: All right, So insomnia in Latin literally means no sleep,

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Speaker 2: and they had to settle on a number. You know,

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Speaker 2: it really varies on how long it takes people to

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Speaker 2: fall asleep, obviously, but they had to get together finally

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Speaker 2: and say, we got to come up with a number

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Speaker 2: everybody for what you should shoot for. And what they

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Speaker 2: eventually landed on was twenty minutes to fall asleep is

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Speaker 2: what they consider sort of the quote unquote normal range,

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Speaker 2: and if you're going well well beyond that, then you

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Speaker 2: may have insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's weird. Like I think that you usually

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Speaker 1: need thirty to forty five minutes to fall asleep, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's just on the nights where

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Speaker 1: you get sleep, or if that alone qualifies you for insomnia, because.

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Speaker 2: Because thirty didn't, I mean, that's only ten minute, it's more.

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Speaker 1: No, but that would qualify as difficulty falling asleep, which

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Speaker 1: The term for that is sleep on set insomnia.

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Speaker 2: And that's if you're really trying to go to sleep,

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Speaker 2: you're not laying there scrolling through your social medis.

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Speaker 1: Right, and we'll see that trying to go to sleep

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Speaker 1: can have like the a counterproductive effect on people with insomnia,

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Speaker 1: because there's a type of insomnia where you are worried

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Speaker 1: you're not going to get sleep so much that you

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Speaker 1: can't fall asleep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's one of the biggest I think things

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Speaker 2: about insomnia if you really have bad insomnia, is the

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Speaker 2: worry and even the in the hours before bedtime, people

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Speaker 2: will start to worry. And that's just such a sad

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Speaker 2: way to live, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea of thinking about your bedroom is a

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Speaker 1: place of dread in Anxietymy is really really sad to me.

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Speaker 1: And I love my bedroom, Yes, me too. And I

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Speaker 1: hope that everyone with insomnia gets over it eventually because

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Speaker 1: everyone deserves good sleep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, it goes out saying that lack

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Speaker 2: of sleep can cause all sorts of medical health issues

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Speaker 2: because your body needs sleep, not to mention accidents that

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Speaker 2: can happen when you're too sleepy, whether it's falling asleep

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Speaker 2: at the wheels or if you you know, work a

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Speaker 2: chip job and you're running machinery stuff like that, all

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Speaker 2: kinds of bad things have happened because you haven't had

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Speaker 2: been asleep.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and so you say, okay, well, this is a

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Speaker 1: disorder that affects a lot of people. Did you say

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Speaker 1: how many people have it?

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Speaker 2: I didn't. We didn't go with the stats. Why don't

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Speaker 2: you hit them with some.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm taking the statman role for today.

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Speaker 2: All Right, I'm gonna take a quick little micro sleep.

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Speaker 1: As many as seventy million Americans have some sort of

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Speaker 1: sleep disorder, which would include insomnia, and that at any

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Speaker 1: given night, there's ten percent of people in the United

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Speaker 1: States are having trouble sleeping. There's a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: That's twenty five million something like that, and that eventually

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Speaker 1: about two thirds of people will experience insomnia to some

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Speaker 1: degree or another.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I also saw some worldwide statistics that said that,

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Speaker 2: and this wasn't necessarily just insomnia, but sixty two percent

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Speaker 2: of people all around the world say they don't get

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Speaker 2: enough sleep. Yeah, that's a lot, that's you know, in

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Speaker 2: the majority.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sad.

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Speaker 2: People aren't sleeping enough.

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Speaker 1: And it's supposedly a pretty modern problem because I saw

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Speaker 1: some sleep doctor I think he was a neurologist, and

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Speaker 1: he was saying, like, you know, we have ways of

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Speaker 1: storing up energy later on, because humans as a species

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Speaker 1: have encountered you know, feast or famine cycles before, so

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Speaker 1: our bodies evolved to like store food for a while

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Speaker 1: in times of leanness, right, don't have that with sleep,

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Speaker 1: Like we don't have a way to store like a

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Speaker 1: wakefulness or something like that, or energy in our brain

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Speaker 1: for times when we don't get And he was saying,

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Speaker 1: that's evidence right there that we've never as a species

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Speaker 1: encountered difficulty sleeping before. That that is a very new thing.

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Speaker 2: That's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought so too.

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Speaker 2: And not surprising. There is not a like a single

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Speaker 2: you can't point to a single cause. Or are all

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Speaker 2: kinds of reasons someone might have insomnia, but most of

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Speaker 2: them boiled down as far as like not non psychological causes.

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Speaker 2: There are many, many, many physiological arousals that might keep

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Speaker 2: you awake, and it's you know, it's at bedtime. It's

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Speaker 2: not when you want them. So like your body temperature

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Speaker 2: might be up, or your heart rate might be up,

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Speaker 2: or your cortisol levels or other hormones might be jumping around,

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Speaker 2: and this is happening at bedtime, which is not when

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Speaker 2: you want that stuff to happen. You may have also

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Speaker 2: gotten it from It could be genetic, It might have

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Speaker 2: something to do with your age. I think women are

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Speaker 2: more likely to have bouts of insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Than men, especially if they are pregnant.

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Speaker 2: A big time. It's like eighty something percent, right, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and if you it can also be comorbid with a

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Speaker 2: lot of different kinds of mental health disorders, especially things

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Speaker 2: like depression and anxiety. I think it was something like

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Speaker 2: eighty eighty five percent of people with depression like also

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Speaker 2: have insomnia.

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Speaker 1: So let's take in a little more to these categories,

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Speaker 1: these baffling, confusing categories. Okay, sure you mentioned transient insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Let's say just a day or two or a couple

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Speaker 1: of days. Say you have, like a good example as

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Speaker 1: an upcoming deadline at work, right, Okay, totally makes sense.

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Speaker 1: But once the deadline comes and goes, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to be able to sleep again. If

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Speaker 1: you have a longer term, say if you have a

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Speaker 1: much bigger problem or a much more extended thing, that's

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Speaker 1: making you upset. That would probably translate into that acute

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Speaker 1: insomnia and then anything over. I saw three months, I

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Speaker 1: saw a month. But if you have trouble sleeping at

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Speaker 1: least three days a week for longer than three months, you,

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Speaker 1: my friend, have skated, unfortunately, into chronic insomnia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think part of the diagnosis too, is

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Speaker 2: that it has to it has to be affecting your

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Speaker 2: daily your your wake time as well. Right, Yes, so

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Speaker 2: you're not able to concentrate at work, maybe your relationships

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Speaker 2: are suffering, like it's it's really kind of wrecking your

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Speaker 2: daytime hours as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you turn into Edward Norton in fight club.

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Speaker 2: So here's my question. Because I thought I had it sorted.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm not really sure because the DSM and then

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Speaker 2: the what's the official sleep manual called I can't remember

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Speaker 2: sleep Bible. Yeah, sure, let's call it that. But they've

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Speaker 2: they've kind of changed things over the years just to

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Speaker 2: confuse people. But there's also primary and secondary insomnia, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I don't believe this is the case anymore. I

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Speaker 1: think they used to divide it up until very recently.

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Speaker 1: But primary insomnia was where the insomnia itself is the disorder.

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Speaker 1: There's not another cause, it's not comorbid with something, it's

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Speaker 1: the problem itself. And they further broke it down into

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Speaker 1: three subcategories of primary insomnia, psycho psycho's physiological, idiopathic, and paradoxical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, idiopathic literally means there's no cause, and that's the

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Speaker 2: one that they've basically gotten rid of completely. Yes, although

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Speaker 2: I did see that there was still some debate going on.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's still some people like that don't want

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Speaker 2: to give that up for some reason. Yeah, they love

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Speaker 2: the name. They basically said though, that like that there

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Speaker 2: is a reason behind I think idiopathic was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're sort of a kid that can't sleep, and then

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Speaker 2: you're an adult who can't sleep and there just never

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Speaker 2: is any reason. And they're basically saying, like, that's really

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Speaker 2: not true.

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Speaker 1: You're convinced throughout your life that there really is a

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Speaker 1: monster in your closet. You just can't shake it.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: There's also that psychophysiological one I said, where this is

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Speaker 1: the one where you're worried about sleep and supposedly all

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Speaker 1: it takes is one night where there's trouble sleeping. For

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Speaker 1: somebody with psycho physiological insomnia to start worrying that they're

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Speaker 1: not going to get sleep, and then that worry leads

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Speaker 1: them to not get sleep. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy,

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Speaker 1: and that's its own subtype. And then there's that paradoxical one. Right.

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Speaker 2: Paradoxical is sort of confusing because it is a paradox

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Speaker 2: and I guess those are confusing. But that means you

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Speaker 2: have you experience sleeplessness, but you don't have the bad

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Speaker 2: effects during the day somehow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just strange.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there's secondary insomnia, and that's where the insomnia

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Speaker 1: is a it comes, it arises from a disorder. It's

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Speaker 1: secondary to the actual real issue, where if you solve

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Speaker 1: the first issue, the insomnia should reasonably be expected to

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Speaker 1: go away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's always been sort of the line share

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Speaker 2: of cases, like eighty percent or more. And I think

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Speaker 2: I read that they basically combined everything because they were like,

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Speaker 2: the treatment's not going to be that wildly different because

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Speaker 2: there are only certain things you can try, and we

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Speaker 2: should try these for everyone that has insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Plus, it's not a good look for psychology as a

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Speaker 1: feel that there is an entire category of we don't

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Speaker 1: know insomnia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. True.

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Speaker 1: So some of the things that can trigger secondary insomnia.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned some people at risk, like pregnant people or

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Speaker 1: the elderly as you age, but also people with depression,

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Speaker 1: anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder. Apparently eighty five percent of people

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Speaker 1: who have clinical depression also have insomnia. And there's also

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Speaker 1: a lot of drugs that can keep you up as well. Ironically,

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Speaker 1: those same people who have depression, their treatment for depression

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Speaker 1: SSRIs can actually keep them up and give them insomnia

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Speaker 1: as well, so they could they would have double secondary insomnia.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like, yeah, there are all kinds of and

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Speaker 2: these are drugs that people you know, are very popular

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Speaker 2: for a lot of things like cardiovascular disease and asthma

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Speaker 2: and allergies and beta blockers and alpha blockers, like all

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Speaker 2: kinds of very common drugs. One of these side effects

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Speaker 2: oftentimes is sleeplessness, so you know, you always have to

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Speaker 2: take that into consideration for the picture of your overall health.

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Speaker 1: Right, Chuck, I think it's high time we took a break.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, I have another stat for you before we

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Speaker 1: get started again.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear it, stat Man, So Statman, brothers.

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Speaker 1: I saw that your sleep deteriorates with your age, is

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Speaker 1: what I was saying earlier, right, h They apparently quantified

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Speaker 1: it that you you lose about twenty seven minutes per

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Speaker 1: night each decade from middle age.

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Speaker 2: M middle aged, meaning in your forties.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm guessing is I think it was the

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Speaker 1: beginning of middle age and middle aged.

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Speaker 2: So in your fifties about a half hour less. In

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Speaker 2: your sixties that would be about an hour less.

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Speaker 1: Yep, seventies hour and a half, seventies hour and a half, eighties.

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Speaker 1: Let's not even talk about.

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Speaker 2: It, no man, And it's again dressing.

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Speaker 1: That's not where you're like, oh, I don't need any sleep.

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Speaker 1: I'm a senior citizen. It's it's like my sleep sucks

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Speaker 1: now compared to how it was when I was younger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's no good. I saw some other low

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Speaker 2: risk categories, or i'm sorry, high risk categories that are

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Speaker 2: not surprising but maybe often overlooked, And one was low

357
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Speaker 2: income households, and people oftentimes have insomnia because of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Something you might not think about much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, worrying about things like bills or paying rent, or yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely issues and all that stuff that's that will keep

361
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Speaker 1: you up at night, and that is that qualifies as

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Speaker 1: insomnia obviously.

363
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Speaker 2: Any anyone suffering chronic pain. Diabetes is another one. And

364
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Speaker 2: then the you know, sort of the sleep apnea and

365
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Speaker 2: like restless leg syndrome and the Jimmy legs stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I knew you were gonna say it. If you didn't

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Speaker 1: say it, I was going to say it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all going to keep you up more. And again,

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Speaker 2: something like restless leg syndrome might wake you up, but

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Speaker 2: it's that ability to get back to sleep is when

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Speaker 2: it becomes a big problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so an inability to fall back asleep is sleep maintenance, insomnia.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's all these great terms associated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they get really specific. Sleep is one of the

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Speaker 2: more studied things.

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Speaker 1: You bet your sweep bippy, it is chuck.

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Speaker 2: As far as the diagnosis, like you were talking about,

378
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Speaker 2: you can't just stroll in and say like, I can't

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Speaker 2: sleep and they say here's some drugs to help you.

380
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: Well they might they yeah, actually might, So forget I

381
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Speaker 2: said that. Scratch that. But it does start with you

382
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Speaker 2: telling your doctor because they're not with you in the bedroom.

383
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Speaker 2: So unless you're married to a doctor, So you do

384
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Speaker 2: go in and say I can't sleep, and what they're

385
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Speaker 2: probably gonna do is say, well, really describe that, and

386
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Speaker 2: they may give you something right away, or they may say, well,

387
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Speaker 2: why don't you keep a sleep diary for a week,

388
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Speaker 2: because someone might just say like, I don't really know.

389
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Speaker 2: I just know that I wake up a lot and stuff.

390
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Speaker 2: And the sleep diary is what makes the patient really

391
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Speaker 2: kind of track what's going on to help both you

392
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Speaker 2: and the doctor, like helping you help yourself.

393
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not just gonna say I don't know.

394
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Speaker 1: They're gonna be like, I don't know, Okay, I haven't

395
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Speaker 1: slept in two weeks, Okay, get off my back.

396
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you see these bags under my eyes.

397
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Speaker 1: So with a sleep diary, it's pretty straightforward stuff. You know,

398
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: how much how much did you drink that day? What'd

399
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 1: you eat that day? Did you exercise that day? What time?

400
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: What time did you go to bed, how long did

401
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: it take for you to get to sleep. Just little

402
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,959
Speaker 1: details like that that you take for granted when your

403
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: sleep isn't problematic, right, but that you can really kind

404
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: of observe and come up with some real easy things

405
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: that you can change in your life that might help

406
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: you go to sleep. There's something called sleep hygiene.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's what you're describing, basically, is someone's

408
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Speaker 2: sleep hygiene, whether it's good or bad.

409
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Speaker 1: Right, So what is sleep hygiene? Chuck? Which is better

410
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: than hygienic utensil but still not great.

411
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: Well, it's exactly what you were saying, which is, do

412
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: you exercise too close to your sleep? Were you looking

413
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Speaker 2: at a screen that emits blue lights? Like? Right? But

414
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: it's a huge one these days of course. Like right

415
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: before you go to sleep, how you know, did you eat?

416
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Speaker 1: What?

417
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 2: What did you drink? Had you had any kind of stimulant?

418
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 2: And alcohol is really bad as well, like drinking alcohol

419
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 2: even though this not something you might think of as

420
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Speaker 2: a stimulant.

421
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: Did you do a big hog's leg of cocaine right

422
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Speaker 1: before you went to bed?

423
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Speaker 2: Sure? The sleep hygiene, it's sort of all the things

424
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: that go into you know, do you have good good

425
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 2: light blocking in your room, sound blocking? Like all of

426
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: the stuff that goes into a good night's sleep is

427
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Speaker 2: sleep hygiene.

428
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Speaker 1: Right, And so all those things you don't want to do,

429
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Speaker 1: like actually you'd think exercising would be a good thing

430
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: to do. No, it's actually it really energizes you. If

431
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 1: you've ever paid attention after you you exercise, like, yes,

432
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: your body is so or sore and you're kind of slow,

433
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 1: but you feel good. You don't want to do that.

434
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: Actually want to take up yoga before you sleep?

435
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: It makes me sleepy.

436
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, especially if you do specifically yoga designed

437
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: for bedtime, which is basically just some like kind of

438
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: light stretches ten to fifteen minutes. If you're having trouble

439
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: sleeping and you don't try bedtime yoga, you're welcome.

440
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I do morning yoga and I find that

441
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: I want to take a nap after.

442
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really feels kid though.

443
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: I love that it does. They also say, as far

444
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: as your sleep hygiene, that you want to have a

445
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: regular I mean, if you're doing it right. I know

446
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: it's hard for people, but you try to have a

447
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: regular bedtime and wake time, and that includes weekends. So

448
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 2: if you're having trouble sleeping and you're doing that thing

449
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: where you're like, you know, you're staying up on the

450
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: weekends and stuff like that, you're not doing yourselves any favors.

451
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: No, Also, you want your bedroom to be conducive to sleep.

452
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: Remember that was one of the things that insomnia had

453
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: to call it. You had to have enough time and

454
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: a place to sleep. That was great. And they say

455
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: your bedroom should be only used for sleeping and sex.

456
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: That's it, and only if you're only if you're consenting

457
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: adult above eighteen and you're in a loving relationship.

458
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: Okay, dad, So which.

459
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense because you come to train yourself,

460
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: you associate your bed with sleeping, so that when you

461
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: go to bed and you see your bed and you're

462
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: in your bedroom, you fall asleep much more quickly because

463
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: you've trained yourself to think of that's the place that

464
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: I sleep. That's not for doing taxes, snorting a lot

465
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: of cocaine. It's it's where I sleep.

466
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, our buddy John Hodgman has long established

467
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: precedent that he feels very strongly that you should have

468
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: the if you're in a partnered relationship, have the very

469
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: largest bed that you can afford without it being like

470
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: a financial burden, right, and that we'll fit even if

471
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: it doesn't fit that good. He says, you should get

472
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: one if if you can afford it, like just squeeze

473
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: it in there. And he says the ideal coupled sleep

474
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: situation is too completely separate bedrooms separated by a courtyard

475
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: with a fountain in the middle of right, and that's

476
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: how you get the best sleep.

477
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that people.

478
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: People weren't meant to sleep together.

479
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: It's it's definitely a thing that I think people are

480
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: finally like, Okay, this might not be the best idea, Like,

481
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: we might need to find some other way around. People

482
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: have come up with workarounds. Apparently, more and more architects

483
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: are being asked to create two primary bedrooms rather than

484
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: just the one.

485
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: Hey, man, if you can pull that off, I say,

486
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: go for it. It doesn't doesn't mean anything about your

487
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 2: marriage that you want to have good sleep, So it

488
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: doesn't just get ready. You can even cuddle together and

489
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 2: then say and good night and then get up and

490
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: go to your separate places. Yeah, and in the morning

491
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: you can scarry on in there and jump into bed

492
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: and cuddle in the morning if you want. I say

493
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: this as someone who does this. We're not smart enough

494
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: we sleep together and keep each other up all night?

495
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 1: Do you really not?

496
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: Really? I mean our animals will keep us up. Yeah,

497
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 2: I feel bad for Emily. The cats literally lay on

498
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: top of her body. Two cats laying on top of

499
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: her body.

500
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you me does not.

501
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: She has a dog in the foot space. It's problematic.

502
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Mama will will tap you me to roll

503
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: over and yeah, spooner, and or she'll say like, I

504
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: want to get on the other side of you, and

505
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: rather than just climb over, you mean, she'll wake her

506
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: up to let her know she's about to climb over. Yeah,

507
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: you mean's not the best at sleep maintenance, so it

508
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: takes her a while to get back to sleep. So yeah,

509
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: and then other times I snore, apparently, I'm told. So

510
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: there'll be times where I'm just like, okay, you you

511
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: need some sleep. I'm going to sleep out on the

512
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: couch tonight.

513
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: Heard you snore before? Really Guatemala, baby, So I do snore.

514
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: I mean, hey, you snored in Guatemala. That's all I know.

515
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was country specific. That's the

516
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: only time we've betted down together. I know everyone thinks

517
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 2: we sleep in our own bunk. But getting back to U,

518
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: me and Momo, that's like proof that you can be

519
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: a small dog and still disrupt sleep. Oh yes, it's

520
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 2: not like size necessarily.

521
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: And then also don't forget Umy stays in bed to

522
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: let Momo sleep in. That's how that's how kind and

523
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: generous Yumi is Tomo man, and how much Mo takes

524
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: advantage of me.

525
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: I'd be elbowing that dog remember the spoon last night.

526
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: You couldn't because she'd just look at you and like

527
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: believe times and you'd be like, do whatever you.

528
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: Want, dooey eyes, I love it. Uh. We talked about TV. Yeah,

529
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: you definitely shouldn't watch I mean everyone, that's generally when

530
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: people watch TV, or at least you should. If you're

531
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: sitting around watching TV all day, then that's that's a

532
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: problem in and of itself. But people I think generally

533
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: watch TV at night is in their evening viewing. But

534
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: try and cut it, cut it off and give yourself

535
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: a transition period before you actually try to fall asleep.

536
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: Or and this is easy if you are on like

537
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: a device or a laptop or something, there's you can

538
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: switch over from blue light to a warmer light and

539
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: it will have less of an effect on you. If

540
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: your TV can do that, bully for you. One of

541
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: the other things that if you have trouble sleeping is

542
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: getting get your TV out of your bedroom. Remember, like

543
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: the bed is for sleeping, it's not for watching TV.

544
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: It is for me.

545
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you have trouble sleeping, this is

546
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: an easy fix for you. You watch TV and then you

547
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: go to bed. You don't go to bed and watch TV.

548
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: If you have trouble sleeping, do what you want. I mean,

549
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,479
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's that's just an easy solution if you're

550
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: having trouble sleeping.

551
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: Oh no, for sure. If I had trouble sleeping, then

552
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: I would get that TV out of there for sure.

553
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: And I think sort of one of the takeaways there

554
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: is is to make going to bed like a transition

555
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: from doing something to doing something else. However, as we'll see,

556
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: and we'll talk about this in a little bit, like

557
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: sometimes that transition can bring on the panic of like,

558
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: oh crap, like I have insomnia and now I'm going

559
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: to the dreaded place and we'll, you know, we'll talk

560
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: about workarounds there. Should we take another break or should

561
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: we wait?

562
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: I think we should take a break.

563
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a break and we'll take another little

564
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: nap and we'll be right back. So Are we at

565
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: the place where we talk about fixing it and not

566
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: fixing it and not just in ways of improving sleep hygiene.

567
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, because the other.

568
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: Ways are basically a few it's drugs, which we'll talk about,

569
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: and then a couple of different therapies, and like sleep retraining.

570
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some They almost sound mean, but apparently they're

571
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: really effective, some of the retraining. Yeah, well let's talk

572
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: about it, Chuck.

573
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: All right, Well, obviously relaxation techniques, meditation, controlled breathing, all

574
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: these sort of low level relaxing behavior with therapies can

575
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: really help you out if you can get in that

576
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: kind of mind space.

577
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: Yes, And then we talked about how just the idea

578
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: of not being able to go to sleep can make

579
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: you lose sleep and cause insomnia, just the fear of that.

580
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: So there's a technique called remaining passively awake, where you're like,

581
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: I don't care if I go to sleep or not.

582
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm just staying up. It doesn't matter, and if I

583
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: fall asleep then great, if I don't, whatever, It's like

584
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: you're changing your mindset so that you're not worried about it.

585
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: You're just kind of taking a more casual approach to it,

586
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: and apparently that can have the effect of removing the

587
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: anxiety enough that you will fall asleep, kind of whether

588
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: you mean to or not.

589
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just man, I can think. I can't imagine

590
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: what it's like to be so desperate that you're trying

591
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: all these different things, and imagine even trying these things

592
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: will bring on anxiety. I have seen a thing where

593
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: the bedroom can be such a like they recommend that

594
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: you just once you leave your bed in the morning

595
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: if you can, if you're in a studio apartment or something,

596
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: then that really stinks. But like close that bedroom door

597
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: and do not go in there at all all day long.

598
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: Put it on it like it's not there. Yeah, exactly,

599
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: put a lock on the door. What else?

600
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: What about supplements, Well, one of the ones that people

601
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: use a lot, chuck is melatonin, and it's a natural supplement.

602
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: They as a matter of fact, they make it. Some

603
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: of it from the pineal glands of animals. Did you

604
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: know that.

605
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: I did. I think most of it's synthesized, but I

606
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: did know that some of it came from animals, And.

607
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: You don't want those. You want the synthetic ones or

608
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: maybe ones from microorganisms. But they say, like, yeah, you

609
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: can take melatonin. If you have like maybe jet lag,

610
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: you can take it for a night or two. Or

611
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: if you're if you have transient insomnia or your ship

612
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: has just changed, you're doing shift work, and it's just

613
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: melatonin can't help. It does it's our brains produce it

614
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: in response to darkness, and it does help us sleep.

615
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 1: The thing is is over time prolonged juice. Like if

616
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: you have chronic insomnia, you do not want to use

617
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: melatonin because it can have all sorts of dileterious effects,

618
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: like because it controls not just how you sleep, but

619
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: also your blood vessel tone, your body temperature, your blood sugar,

620
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: and you can mess with those things inadvertently over time

621
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 1: by taking melatonin.

622
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that goes, it goes. For parents, you know

623
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: they have the kids sleepy gummies.

624
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

625
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: We will use those very like half of one, very judiciously.

626
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: But you don't wanna you know, the jury's kind of

627
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: still out, but I don't know for me, you don't

628
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: want to be given your kid like a sleep aid

629
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: every single night.

630
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of legal metaphors you just used.

631
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: Well, I just you know, I have seen like all kinds. Like,

632
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: I don't think all the evidence is in on like

633
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: kids taking melatonin. Yeah, but to me that's reason enough

634
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: to where like you wouldn't want to give your kid

635
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: a meloton and gummy every night even though, yeah, you know,

636
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: you can be desperate as a parent when your kid

637
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: won't go to sleep.

638
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: I mean they used to use and probably still use,

639
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: like benadryl. Right, didn't that knock kids out?

640
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

641
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure some parents do use that really all right, Yeah,

642
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: and then cough syrup if you're really desperate. I'm sure.

643
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: The there're other, you know, supplements. There's not a ton

644
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: of like scientific evidence for stuff like aromatherapy to fall

645
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: asleep and stuff like that and other supplements. But like,

646
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: you know, if it's if it's safe to try, then

647
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: you can give it a whirl, is what I think

648
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: as far as that stuff goes, Like, try some aromatherapy.

649
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: It might work for you. I don't think it's gonna hurt.

650
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: Probably not unless it like catches your curtains on fire.

651
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: Like tripp a fan is another one, and Valerian over

652
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: the counter seth.

653
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was. I've never taken it

654
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: as a pill. I've always made tea from Valerian root. Yeah,

655
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: and it's an acquired taste for sure, and acquired smell,

656
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: but it does have a very mellowing effect on me

657
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: for sure.

658
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. And CBD. You know what, I'd meant to look

659
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: into this because there are all kinds of CBD gummies

660
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: and things like that, like sleep gummies.

661
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: So have you ever have you taken CBD gummies and

662
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: been able to like, no, noticed any difference in your

663
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: sleep or anything.

664
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: Well, I don't need them for sleep, so I haven't

665
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: tried it, Okay, but I know people who.

666
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: Do and they report good things from it.

667
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know who knows we should do one

668
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: on CBD because it's sort of the wild West it is.

669
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: Did you see Woody Harrelson's brother has his.

670
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: Own line of it, Matthew McConaughey.

671
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: And he doesn't say he's Woody Harrelson's brother, but his

672
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: last name is Harrelson. And if he's not Woody Harrelson's brother,

673
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: I will eat a hat. I have a few of them.

674
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: You saw that thing about he McConaughey maybe being brothers

675
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: for real? No, Yeah, that was recent. They discovered. I

676
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: can't remember, so I'm not going to try and act

677
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: like I remember the exact terms. But it was something

678
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: about some they found some possible family link. Wow, And

679
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot of similarities with them, and they're very

680
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: very very close friends and a lot of like and

681
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: they were both kind of like, Man, I wonder if

682
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: this is true. So I'm not sure if they're looking

683
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: into it or not. So I I think her mom

684
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: while her while McConaughey's mom was divorced from his dad

685
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: and they eventually got remarried at least once. I think

686
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: that she knew Woody Harrelson's dad and was like in

687
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: the same town at the same time, like nine months

688
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: before one of them was conceived or something. I think

689
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 2: it was something like that.

690
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we can't mention Woody Harrelson's dad and not

691
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: remind everybody that he was a suspect in the JFK

692
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: assassination at one point, the very famous three tramps who

693
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: were jacked up by the cops right afterward, one of

694
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: them was Woody Harrelson's dad.

695
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: It's right, And didn't Donald Trump say Ted Cruz's dad

696
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: was in on it or something?

697
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think so. And then the internet

698
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: made Ted Cruz say that he's not the Zodiac Killer.

699
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: You remember that. Oh yeah, he's like I wasn't even

700
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: boyed he was killing people or I was like five

701
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: years old, like they made him say it.

702
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: Oh boy.

703
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: So you talked about prescriptions and you know that.

704
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: May like real drugs, Yes, those.

705
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: Can help apparently, but they're they're meant for short periods

706
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: of time because you can very quickly develop a dependence

707
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: on them.

708
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of them, like ambien we've talked about, uh,

709
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: and then lu Nesta and these are of course the

710
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: brand names of zolpidem and etso py clone. I think, uh,

711
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: those are those are kind of known to be habit

712
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: forming and for short periods. But I think I looked

713
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 2: up that ramelteon that was in the in the stuff

714
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: that was in our article, but that I think is

715
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 2: supposed to be non habit forming and has fewer side

716
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: effects as something like ambient.

717
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: Ramelte I know, I didn't see that anywhere. Yeah, okay, yes, okay, it's.

718
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: A benzodiazepine receptor antagonists.

719
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: Right, and but I think it's a melatonin receptor antagonists

720
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: or agonist. It makes melotonin like crazy.

721
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 2: It makes an ag They.

722
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: Also might prescribe any depressants in low dosages, especially if

723
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: you have anxiety over not sleeping, which can help as well,

724
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: but in particular with ambient and lunesta and those sedative hypnotics.

725
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: Those are the ones where like they come with warnings

726
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: saying like be aware, like you may drive your car

727
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: while you're sleeping. Yeah, you may like have sex or

728
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: do all sorts of risky behavior. Yeah, eat a stick

729
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: of butters like that, that perennial one, but it really

730
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: does happen.

731
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: What if someone read that is like eat a stick

732
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: of butter and they're like, yeah, so what's the problem, right?

733
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: I do that while I'm wide awake.

734
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: I used to catch Ruby when she was younger, just

735
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: getting into the butter.

736
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you guys keep get butter around?

737
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: I don't remember, of course. And she'll see her with

738
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: a big piece of butter on a fork and like

739
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: what are you doing? Just like it's so good, it

740
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: is good, but you keep this assaulted? Well, we have both,

741
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: but you know, I said you probably shouldn't do that,

742
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: but it's like, you know, you're also five years old

743
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: and a pad of Butter. It's not going to kill

744
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: you right now. Just watch out. That's how they hook you.

745
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, big Butter.

746
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: Should we talk about this world record stuff?

747
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: I think so. So.

748
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: There have been a lot of people over the years.

749
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: It used to be a thing where people would test

750
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: the limits of human sleeplessness and enter contests or vie

751
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: for the world record and stuff like that, and through

752
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: the decades there have been many, many records broken until

753
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: they basically the Guinness Company stopped in nineteen ninety seven

754
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: said we're going to stop monitoring this because it's like

755
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: straight up dangerous.

756
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. But by the time they stopped, someone had gotten

757
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: to eighteen days. He's twenty one hours and forty minutes,

758
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty three hours. A guy named Robert

759
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: MacDonald from I think Modesto, California in nineteen eighty six.

760
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a twenty seven year old stunt man. Yeah,

761
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: and that's four hundred and fifty three and change hours.

762
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 2: And this was a rocking chair marathon, which was another

763
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: one of the ladies from the UK, Maureen Weston, who

764
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 2: was a record holder at one point, she was also

765
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: in a rocking chair marathon.

766
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: The guy who gets the most press though for having

767
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: stayed up the longest actually came in like fourth or

768
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: fifth by now. But his name is Randy Gardner, and

769
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty three, he was a seventeen year

770
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: old who was looking to win a science experiment contest, right,

771
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: so he decided to stay up as long as he

772
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: could and break the record, which I think his record

773
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: that he set was eleven days and twenty five minutes,

774
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: which was longer than the record at the time, and

775
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: at that time, I think in the nineteenth sixties, it

776
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: was like a thing that DJs did. They would just

777
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: stay yeah, for as long as they could. And if

778
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken before Randy Gardner, like the limit was

779
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: around eight or nine days, so he really shattered the record.

780
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: But other people had taken stimulants and really lost their

781
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: poop as a result. They basically took stimulants for eight

782
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 1: days in a row and didn't sleep. Of course, it's

783
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: going to mess with you, so he learned not to

784
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: do that, but instead he was distracted. He had two

785
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: friends that stayed with him, and eventually a doctor named

786
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: doctor William Dement who would take Randy Gardner to go

787
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: play like pinball to keep them awake sometimes.

788
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that one is one of the

789
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 2: most well known because because of that doctor and the

790
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: fact that he hung out and sort of quote unquote

791
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 2: studied him and you know, he experienced what you would think,

792
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: which is hallucinations, delusions, memory problems, perception issues, motor control

793
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 2: issues PCP. Yeah, all the stuff that would expect when

794
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: you can't get sleep yep.

795
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: But he also said that he believes that it had

796
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: lasting damage. He developed Alzheimer's in his sixties. He attributes

797
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: to that he also developed insomnia later on in life too.

798
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, oh yeah, he couldn't sleep six hours

799
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: a night.

800
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: Geez. All right, so maybe we should finish on the

801
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 2: long promised cognitive behavioral therapy routine aka sleep boot camp.

802
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: And then what was the other one called.

803
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: SCT stimulus therapy stimulus.

804
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because those used in conjunction seem to

805
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: be sort of the gold standard.

806
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was an Australian study that found out that

807
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: if you put those two together over the course of

808
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: five weeks, say goodbye insomnia.

809
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: Right. So there are different ways to do, you know,

810
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: all kinds of cognitive behavioral therapy, but one common sleep

811
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: boot camp would be something where you go into this program.

812
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: You're supposed to I believe, the night before you're supposed

813
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: to sleep no more than five hours, so you go

814
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: in sort of sleepy, and then when you go in,

815
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: you go to a sleep lab around bedtime, and then

816
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 2: you spend the next twenty five hours basically in little

817
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: thirty minute fifty different thirty minute sessions trying to fall asleep.

818
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: You spend the next twenty five hours in hell.

819
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: Essentially, it sounds pretty bad because the goal here is

820
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: they want you to know that you can fall asleep

821
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: quicker than you usually do and what that feels like.

822
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: And they do that by like saying, all right, try

823
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: and fall asleep, and you try and fall asleep, and

824
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: if they do fall asleep, after three minutes, they wake

825
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: you up and say, hey, do you think were you

826
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 2: asleep just now? And if you say no, then they say, well,

827
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: guess what you were Or you say yes, they'll say congratulations,

828
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: you were, and then they just keep doing that over

829
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: and over, so you're getting really, really more and more tired,

830
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: so that sleep deprivation builds up until you kind of

831
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: train yourself to fall asleep.

832
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then just to really mess with you. Every

833
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: time you do fall asleep, they change their clothes real quick,

834
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: so you're really disoriented when you wake up put on

835
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: a wig. Yeah, but so apparently in twenty five hours

836
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: this works, like that boot camp will will help cure you.

837
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: And like you said, it shows people, yes, you can

838
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: fall asleep and that the sleep deprivation that's generated doesn't hurt.

839
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: Either, Right, So that's that. Then the set stimulus control

840
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: therapy is when they say, go to your this is

841
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 2: not at a sleep place or whatever, it's just in

842
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: your regular house. Go to bed, and then after twenty minutes,

843
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: if you're not asleep, get up and get out of

844
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 2: that room and go to another room of your house

845
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: and like read or meditate or do something that you

846
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: know will relax, to use something that has proven to

847
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: relax you, and then go back and try again. And

848
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: if that doesn't work in twenty minutes, get up and

849
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: leave the room again. But don't lay there in bed

850
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: essentially for an hour or two, tossing and turning and stressing.

851
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the very least, you're distracting yourself from worrying

852
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: laying in bed worrying by going and doing something relaxing

853
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: like reading a book. How else all listen to a

854
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: podcast that's a good one and you just repeat is

855
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: necessary until you fall asleep. And apparently five weeks of

856
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: stimulus control therapy following a sleep boot camp program of

857
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: twenty five hours, this Australian study found that that is

858
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: a really great way to get past chronic consomnia without

859
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: any drugs.

860
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that's the good good news is I

861
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: roundly found everywhere I looked that most people can cure

862
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: their ensomn. That is the good news. And a lot

863
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 2: of the people who a lot of people never try.

864
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: I think I saw or I just did the math

865
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: that was something like sixty something percent of people. No, no,

866
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: it was like eighty something percent say that they should

867
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: get more sleep or they don't sleep well, I think

868
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: was the stat but only like sixty percent do something

869
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: about it, so or maybe it was even less. It

870
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: ended up being like twenty or thirty percent of people

871
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: like have insomnia and don't seek help.

872
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of them are like, well,

873
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: wait a minute. To cure my insomnia, I need to

874
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: stop looking at my phone right before bed. Then forget it.

875
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: I'll just deal with the insomnia.

876
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, or just you know, struggle through it. And I

877
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: think the same goes with any mental health issue, like

878
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: so many people just don't seek help and try and

879
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: figure it out for themselves, and that it's oftentimes the

880
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: very first step to solving your problem.

881
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: There's one other thing, too, Chuck, that I want to

882
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: talk about before we sign off. Here.

883
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: Let's do it counting cheap apparently, actually I didn't get

884
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 2: to read the case, so teach me this up.

885
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: It not only doesn't work, it can actually keep you

886
00:46:59,160 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: up longer.

887
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: I could see that.

888
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: They think that it originated with medieval shepherds who devised

889
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: the counting system to keep track of their flock. And

890
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: the upshot of it is that it's so boring that

891
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: it would put anybody to sleep, even somebody who had

892
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: trouble sleeping. But that's not actually the case, And instead,

893
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: researchers suggest, if you're at the point where you're trying

894
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: to count sheep, instead envision a really relaxing place like

895
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: a beach or a mountain cabin or whatever whatever relaxes you. Yeah,

896
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: exactly on Black Friday, And that concentrating on that and

897
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: it being kind of engrossing is what will help you

898
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: drift off to sleep, or at the very least, it

899
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: will distract you from worrying about not sleeping enough that

900
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: you might fall asleep.

901
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: You know that cheap counting thing we may have talked

902
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: about that that sounds for.

903
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: Micro Yeah, it's an understanding trope. Yeah. Well, since Chuck

904
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: said yeah, everybody, that means it's time for a listener mail.

905
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to call this longtime listener. Hey, guys and Jerry.

906
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: I don't know what counts as a longtime listener, but

907
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: I have been listening for over half my life. I

908
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 2: think that counts Nova. This is from Nova. That counts Nova.

909
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: I can't even remember when I first started listening. I

910
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: remember I first remember listening when I was ten or

911
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: eleven maybe, and I used to listen to back to

912
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: back episodes in spare free time while playing Minecraft. I

913
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 2: just graduated college with a degree in mechanical engineering, and

914
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: I'm often working an awesome job where I get to

915
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,439
Speaker 2: work with planes. I just want to give you guys

916
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: a big thank you from the bottom of my heart

917
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: for what you do. I consider you guys role models

918
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: in my life, and I strive have your genuine curiosity

919
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: and open mindedness every day. Your podcast got me through

920
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: some tough times, and I always knew that I could

921
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 2: turn on some stuff you should Know and feel better.

922
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: Thanks for all the young minds that you have sharpened,

923
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: and thank you from a big NERD for giving me

924
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: so many fun facts, a curious nature, and a huge

925
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: love of learning. I would never have even considered or

926
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: finished an engineering degree without the tools that you gave me.

927
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: And I hope to inspire other engineers the way you

928
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: inspired me, and I hope to be an even longer

929
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: term listener. And that's from Nova. Nova. That stuff makes

930
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: us feel good.

931
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great email, full stop, exactly, no

932
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: pity comments, no, no, thanks for letting us know. Nova,

933
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: that's really cool. And if you want to be like

934
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: Nova and let us know how we impacted your life,

935
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: hopefully in a positive way. We love hearing that stuff.

936
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: You can send us an email at stuff Podcasts at

937
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.

938
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

939
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

940
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.