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Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrator Weekly, SI staff writer

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Speaker 1: Connor Or explains how the evolution of the quarterback position

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Speaker 1: has led to an NFL revolution. Then Philadelphia Inquired columnist

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Speaker 1: Mike Sealski joins us to discuss his new book and

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Speaker 1: tell the entertaining story behind the college that almost landed

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant before he jumped straight to the NBA. But

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Speaker 1: first we begin with the tragic tale of former NBA

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Speaker 1: big man Shawn Bradley and how his life has been

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Speaker 1: radically altered after a bicycle crash left him paralyzed. It's January.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and an

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrator Weekly. With the

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Speaker 1: second pick in the NBA Draft, the Philadelphia seventies sixers

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Speaker 1: select Sean Bradley from Brigham Young University. This is how

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Speaker 1: Sean Bradley, all seven ft six of him, entered the NBA,

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Speaker 1: one picked behind Chris Webber, one ahead of Penny Hardaway.

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Speaker 1: Sean Bradley lasted two years in Philly, then a couple

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Speaker 1: with the Nets, before John Calipari shipped him off to

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Speaker 1: the Mavericks. He had finished his career in Dallas, playing

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Speaker 1: nine seasons there. He retired in two thousand five and

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Speaker 1: moved to St. George, Utah. Beautiful little town in southwest Utah,

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Speaker 1: a couple hours north of Vegas. It's a two hour

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Speaker 1: drive through the desert, really pretty drive. It's near a

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Speaker 1: couple of national parks or sins of canyons. There's biking,

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Speaker 1: there's hiking. This is Brian Burn said. He spent time

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Speaker 1: with Shawn Bradley, his wife, Carry and their family to

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Speaker 1: write a recent profile in Sports illustrated this typical weather

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Speaker 1: for here. This is quite nice without humidity. Where he

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Speaker 1: had remarried to a woman named Carrie. And night after

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Speaker 1: we met, he pulled up to my house, leaned out

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Speaker 1: the back window the kids and then drives like what

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Speaker 1: do I say if you could drive? If you let

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Speaker 1: me drive? Okay, all night, let's go right. Carrie has

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Speaker 1: three kids. Sean adopted them all, and really he had

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Speaker 1: created this kind of new family unit. They had a happy,

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Speaker 1: quiet life in St. George. He to stay in shape.

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Speaker 1: He was on his bicycle quite a bit. The bike

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Speaker 1: he found as a refuge for his mental health as

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Speaker 1: well as his physical health. So really kind of an

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Speaker 1: idyllic sort of retired life in his late forties with this,

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Speaker 1: with this loving family and and a beautiful home in

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Speaker 1: a beautiful setting. On January one, Sean was taking one

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Speaker 1: of his typical rides on a two lane residential street.

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Speaker 1: There's a wide emergency lane off to the right. Sean

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Speaker 1: was coming through a roundabout, and so I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I gotta be careful with the round about signaled slowed down,

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Speaker 1: signal to turn. Went through the roundabout, and I was

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Speaker 1: just literally as long as white line right here. I

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Speaker 1: thought I saw someone in this parked car, So I

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Speaker 1: need to be sure that I go around it far

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Speaker 1: enough if they don't see me. If they opened it,

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Speaker 1: he was worried. Okay, I want to give this car space.

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Speaker 1: If they open their door, that could cause a dangerous collision.

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Speaker 1: He signals, does everything you're supposed to. The driver behind him,

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Speaker 1: apparently distracted or in a hurry, hit him. His front

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Speaker 1: wheel turns, the bike stops cold. That's three plus pounds

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Speaker 1: going airborne. Land's head first hits the car, hits the concrete,

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Speaker 1: and it is it is painfully close to his home.

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Speaker 1: He was almost almost home. The driver continued on. It

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Speaker 1: was a young mother, and she continued on on their

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Speaker 1: way to pick up her kid from school. Later came

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Speaker 1: back talked with the police. They ultimately opted not to

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Speaker 1: charge her despite the evidence, and she knew that she

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Speaker 1: hit somebody right. She said that she saw him tumbling

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Speaker 1: through the air in her rear view mirror, but maintained

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Speaker 1: that she had given him enough room and never really

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Speaker 1: copped to bumping into him, even though his GPS data

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Speaker 1: showed he'd accelerated from twelve to seventeen miles an hour instantaneously.

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Speaker 1: What you're not going to do on a cool down

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Speaker 1: ride going uphill. So he had been bumped, the data suggested,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't charge her. The Bradley's, for their part,

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Speaker 1: did not to sue. So, Sean's hit by this car,

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Speaker 1: He's painfully close to home. Who finds him? What happens?

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Speaker 1: So there was a woman in the parked car, uh

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Speaker 1: and she got out and immediately tended to him. I

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Speaker 1: believe she's the one who called ambulance, got there pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: Does he wake up on his own? Does he call someone?

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Speaker 1: What happens next? Sean, for his part, he woke up

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Speaker 1: in a daze, initially thought he couldn't breathe with scared

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Speaker 1: he'd suffocate to know if his diaphragm was working. He

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Speaker 1: couldn't move anything, just his eyes initially at first. Eventually

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Speaker 1: he's able to move his shoulders, just a slight shrug

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Speaker 1: of his shoulders, and that was enough to let him know, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I have some motion. Maybe I'll start to get some

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Speaker 1: things back. But it's still just as you can see

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Speaker 1: in the photos of accompanied the story, he's he was

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Speaker 1: in agony. It was terrifying for him. Word traveled fast

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Speaker 1: up the street. Carrie came out and saw the crash site,

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Speaker 1: saw Sean on the ground. The E M T s

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Speaker 1: on site were worried about stuffing him into the ambulance.

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Speaker 1: Is he gonna fit? They almost couldn't shut the doors.

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Speaker 1: They're eventually able to get them shut. Raced off to

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Speaker 1: the hospital. That left carry there to collect the bike

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Speaker 1: and scramble to get to the hospital to see what

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Speaker 1: fate awaited her and her husband. When they get to

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Speaker 1: the hospital, how soon before the doctors tell Sean exactly

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Speaker 1: what's going on here. They'd seen that vertebrae had shifted,

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Speaker 1: that his spinal cord had been pinched. They knew that

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Speaker 1: there had been damaged somewhere around the C six vertebrae.

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Speaker 1: That's what shifted, and they knew they had to get

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Speaker 1: in and operate on him to fuse it, to lock

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Speaker 1: the vertebrate back in place, to keep that stable. That's

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Speaker 1: priority one. And then coming out of surgery, it's a

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Speaker 1: waiting game. Breathing too, as bad as it can get.

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Speaker 1: He's in the I c U for three weeks and

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Speaker 1: they don't know what fate awaits him. They know generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: someone with that sort of C six injury that that

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Speaker 1: means limited motion in the arms, may regain some use

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Speaker 1: of their hands, maybe some slight feeling in the torso

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Speaker 1: again it varies, but more than likely no use of

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Speaker 1: the legs, some limitations on breathing. So it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a complex injury, but it was not. It was certainly

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Speaker 1: not a rosy prognosis. That day when he's fully conscious again,

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Speaker 1: what's his mindset, what's Carrie's mindset, what's their interaction, like,

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Speaker 1: what are they going through in that moment? Once he

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Speaker 1: gets out of the I c U. After those first weeks,

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Speaker 1: it becomes okay, I have to confront this drastically different

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Speaker 1: new life, you know, imagine you you are a former athlete.

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Speaker 1: You have this perfect idyllic life. Your body has been

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Speaker 1: the means through which you have an identity, through which

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Speaker 1: you've made a fortune, through which you've kind of connected

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Speaker 1: with the world, and now it's just suddenly gone. And

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Speaker 1: you have this new family that knows you as this tall,

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Speaker 1: stable figure and now you're you're something different. This isn't

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Speaker 1: quite better for worse. Typically means it's probably my biggest

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Speaker 1: challenge and all this I would be possible, right because

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Speaker 1: I'm not that person anymore. I mean I am I'm Sean.

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Speaker 1: I'm still you know why. I still have things offer.

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Speaker 1: I saw my my wits about me, my thoughts and

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Speaker 1: my attitudes. But it's changed. What is his day to

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Speaker 1: day Like Carrie obviously cannot do it alone given his size,

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Speaker 1: even if he was an avertised person. You need it

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Speaker 1: definitely helps to have caretakers to help you get in

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Speaker 1: out of bed. He has someone come in the morning,

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Speaker 1: help him to make sure he has a bowel movement,

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Speaker 1: clean up any messes he's had, get him dressed, and

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Speaker 1: that process takes all of that takes about an hour,

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Speaker 1: get him proper medication, move him using this. It's called

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Speaker 1: a Hoyer lift. It looks like a small crane with

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Speaker 1: a fabric sling on it. Move him from the bed

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Speaker 1: into his massive custom electric wheelchair that weighs nearly five pounds,

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Speaker 1: and then he can start his day. He's limited, he

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Speaker 1: can't go upstairs and his beautiful home, can't go down

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Speaker 1: to the basement. And then at night they reverse that process.

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Speaker 1: The caretaker comes back and helps him get ready for bed,

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Speaker 1: and gets him in bed and cleans him up, and

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Speaker 1: and has to fix his legs and these slings that

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Speaker 1: enable him to shift in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: He sets an alarm every three hours so we can

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Speaker 1: shift his legs so he doesn't develop bedsore. So it's

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Speaker 1: a constant logistical struggle, only made harder by his size.

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Speaker 1: What if the doctors told him about long term? Is

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Speaker 1: this permanent? Is there any chance that he might get

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Speaker 1: some sensation back? Generally speaking, for an injury like this,

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Speaker 1: the most improvement happens in the first six months, and

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Speaker 1: he did have some improvement. He regained some function in

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Speaker 1: his hands. He's able to feed himself now, um, so

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Speaker 1: he's regained some measure of independence. With that. He uses

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Speaker 1: his fingers to drive the electric wheelchair. But as far

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Speaker 1: as long term prognosis, it really varies and the doctors

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Speaker 1: don't know. And Sean says that some days he can

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Speaker 1: feel a little bit more tingling in his torso, or

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Speaker 1: his obliques might fire, or he might feel his abs fire,

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Speaker 1: and so they'll try to do some exercises to activate

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Speaker 1: those and see what response they can get, and then

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Speaker 1: it goes away and it varies day to day. So

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever new sensations he has, they try to do

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Speaker 1: some targeted exercises and rehab for that to see if

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Speaker 1: they can establish any new neural pathways. We have to

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Speaker 1: take what's on today, what's turned on today, what worked

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Speaker 1: right now? Right these things work a little bit. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's maximize what we have right there, Solders, My arms

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Speaker 1: were great, in my head were good. You know, I

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of feeling in my abs and chest.

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Speaker 1: Let's back. We're going to maximize what we have today.

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Speaker 1: If something turns on tomorrow, we'll go for that. There.

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Speaker 1: The athletes mentality has helped him. There. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people only do it two or three, and he's the

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Speaker 1: rehab team and Dallas especially it's an athlete Focus Rehab

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Speaker 1: facility has said that they can just tell you know,

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Speaker 1: this was a pro athlete, that mentality has helped him

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Speaker 1: because these are grueling. Can you give us a brief

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Speaker 1: rundown of some of the exercises that Sean has been doing,

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Speaker 1: and lately that's included shooting Basketball's right, it has UH

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Speaker 1: in addition to his strength exercises where he's learning to

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Speaker 1: transition himself from a bed to his wheelchair and back.

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Speaker 1: That's really the core of his rehab. The team in

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Speaker 1: Dallas did have him UH several times go out to

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Speaker 1: the basketball court, and it's ultimately designed to help his dexterity,

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Speaker 1: but it's in a familiar setting and it's a place

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Speaker 1: where he might be inclined to push himself. The day

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Speaker 1: I was with him, they had him shoot a volleyball

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Speaker 1: to start, because it's a little less unwieldy than a

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Speaker 1: full size basketball. He parked himself near the near the

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Speaker 1: rim and was was shooting little two three ft shots

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Speaker 1: under the rim and was making a few of the volleyball.

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Speaker 1: The basketball is a bit more of a challenge for him,

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Speaker 1: just because he's got so little function in his arms

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Speaker 1: and hands, but he was able to make a couple.

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Speaker 1: It was hartening to see him out in that environment again.

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Speaker 1: The court was even painted with a Mavericks theme, but

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Speaker 1: also a jarring reminder of how different his life is now.

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Speaker 1: He also, obviously was a professional athlete for a long

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Speaker 1: time he played in the NBA. He a lot of

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Speaker 1: his identity, I would imagine, was wrapped up in being

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Speaker 1: a large, physical specimen who does something that very few

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Speaker 1: human beings can do. And now his life has changed,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering how he's processing that. So the physical

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Speaker 1: challenge is bigger than anything we can found. But the

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Speaker 1: loss of identity, the loss of independence, the strain on

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Speaker 1: mental health, that's what he wrestles with the most every day.

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Speaker 1: He took great pride in being the tallest guy in

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Speaker 1: the room, um and being looked up to in person,

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Speaker 1: in metaphorically right, look, come into the room. I I'm

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Speaker 1: now he does still get noticed everywhere he goes. You

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Speaker 1: seen anything like it. Every eye still goes towards him.

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Speaker 1: What the gazes are different, right, what people are thinking

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Speaker 1: is different. He knows that he understands that Dallas is

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Speaker 1: really where Sean sort of found a basketball home. Mavericks

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Speaker 1: Dirk Nowitzki also play a big part in the story, Brian,

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Speaker 1: the three of them just talked. They caught up. It

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Speaker 1: And as beautiful of an hour or so as that

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Speaker 1: up to him a teammate, and now he's he's changed,

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Speaker 1: and they were looking at him literally looking down on him,

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Speaker 1: empathizing with him. But still that you know, he's not

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Speaker 1: the seven six guy in the room anymore. Sean is

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Speaker 1: famously a man of faith. He's a lifelong practicing Mormon.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to his life? Now, that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. And I did. I asked him about his

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Speaker 1: go on a mission, etcetera. Right, I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a huge part of his life. But I want to

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Speaker 1: just put to do some person. I want to do

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Speaker 1: a good personal help people. But I can And maybe

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Speaker 1: this is a way of I'm not I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: I want to my life in a way that's positive

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Speaker 1: enough beating And he said it didn't shake his faith,

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Speaker 1: that did not make him question, did not make him

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Speaker 1: doubt it was something he could lean on through all this,

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Speaker 1: and that's been a source of emotional support for him.

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Speaker 1: The parts of his identity that are wrapped up in

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Speaker 1: faith have persevered through it all and that's been a

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Speaker 1: great comfort to him. And I'm wondering, you know, Sean

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Speaker 1: told you and the piece that the piece should really

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Speaker 1: be about carry, not him. So what can you tell

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Speaker 1: I don't know where Sean, where Seawan's mental state would

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Speaker 1: be because she she was the most relentlessly positive person

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Speaker 1: I've met in quite some time, just NonStop, and she

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Speaker 1: admitted as much that she does it because she can't

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Speaker 1: take a moment to pause. Because when she takes the

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Speaker 1: moments to pause or to stop move of being, or

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Speaker 1: that's when the totality of it hits her. And she would,

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Speaker 1: she said sometimes she would have to take a moment

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Speaker 1: she come home to shower and she collapsed in the

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Speaker 1: closet and cry, because that was she took a moment

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Speaker 1: to think in the process, but those moments are fleeting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she really does. She's there for Sean all

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Speaker 1: the time. It's her top concern all the time, and

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want it to be. He wants he wants

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Speaker 1: her to learn to let go a bit. The carriage

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Speaker 1: she's giving me in the family is amazing. In order

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Speaker 1: to live this life, there needs to be a support

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Speaker 1: system and exchanged their life in such a way it's

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Speaker 1: really put a huge burden on especially carry I mean

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Speaker 1: there's ten thousand things that she shouldn't have to be

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Speaker 1: worried about that you know, ten months ago she wasn't

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Speaker 1: worried about, or she was we were able to tackle

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Speaker 1: because she wouldn't in a way, we could both easy

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Speaker 1: to burden as well. I guess what her burdens now

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Speaker 1: I'm And that's why one of my biggest challenge, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how I can use the burden of me.

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Speaker 1: Like Sean said, you know, we didn't sign up for this.

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Speaker 1: She didn't sign up for this, and yet she's doing it.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of families out there can

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Speaker 1: relate to that in one way or the other. And

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Speaker 1: that was an important theme we wanted to explore. You

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Speaker 1: were with the family leading up to Christmas and they

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Speaker 1: were decorating the tree, and you asked Sean a pretty

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Speaker 1: pointed question about decorating the with the family. What did

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Speaker 1: you ask him and how did he respond? Well, So

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Speaker 1: I was struck. I was watching them decorate the tree.

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Speaker 1: It was a massive tree, about twelve feet tall, certainly

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Speaker 1: not one that you or I could reach without some help,

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Speaker 1: and one that I remember watching him I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I would grew up in Atlanta. Watched him at a

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Speaker 1: Hawks Mavericks game and he would grab the rim in

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Speaker 1: pre game and stretch flat footed a ten foot rim.

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Speaker 1: And so I was reminded of that and looking up

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Speaker 1: at that tall tree and thinking about him decorating that tree,

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Speaker 1: you know how far he could reach up and watching

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Speaker 1: him as the kids are on step stools and ladders

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Speaker 1: and carries too, and he has to be off to

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Speaker 1: the side in his chair. It just broke my heart

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Speaker 1: because I know, again that's it's just a symbol, it's

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Speaker 1: an identity thing. He's the tall guy. He's going to

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Speaker 1: reach the top, He's gonna help. And so after I'd

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Speaker 1: watched him decorated, I just when he and I had

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Speaker 1: a kind of final one on one conversation. I asked

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Speaker 1: him how tough that was for him to sit at

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Speaker 1: the side and not be able to help and not

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Speaker 1: be able to reach the top anymore, reach higher than

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Speaker 1: anyone almost in the world could reach in those sort

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Speaker 1: of little family situations, and he broke down, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: tall I'm gonna put the star on the river, or

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Speaker 1: someone absolutely can't at the start of the or now

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Speaker 1: my son has to grab the ladder and move around,

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Speaker 1: you know, six different ways, which is fine because he's

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Speaker 1: willing to do it, but you know, putting terry on

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Speaker 1: my shoulders, I haven't heard a death great part of

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Speaker 1: the top of the tree that those are special moments.

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Speaker 1: It was a bittersweet moment for him. He was happy

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Speaker 1: to be alive, happy to be with his family, happy

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Speaker 1: to be with people who he loved and who were

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Speaker 1: helping him through all this, but he was just so

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Speaker 1: heartbroken that it couldn't be what it was. You've outlined

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Speaker 1: a number of dark moments that he's been trying to

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Speaker 1: get through. Is he able to find purpose in that

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Speaker 1: he has? And he that was a big part of

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Speaker 1: why he wanted to do the piece and was ready

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Speaker 1: to start talking. It was, Hey, I I have been

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Speaker 1: through this. Yes, we have been through this. Yes, but

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Speaker 1: because of love and support and the foundations we have,

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Speaker 1: we're able to find little silver linings every day, find hope,

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Speaker 1: fine moments of happiness. Date nights are tough with Carrie,

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Speaker 1: but maybe if they're coming back from rehab, he told

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Speaker 1: me a story where they just stopped at a little

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Speaker 1: yogurt shop for a cookie and dessert for fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: and forgot about it all. And you don't go through

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Speaker 1: life as successful as you can without your family, but

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Speaker 1: you don't go through a situation like this without your family.

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Speaker 1: We had a little lifetime in a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: because if we hadn't unified as much as we clad,

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Speaker 1: like I mean, the kids in our striking relationships, there's

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Speaker 1: no way we can do this. What was reporting this

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Speaker 1: story like for you? Just as a human being emotionally,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it's like to be Shaun or

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be carried, but it's my job

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Speaker 1: to try to feel that along with them as best

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Speaker 1: I can. I'd come home and talk to my wife,

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Speaker 1: you know, and just talk about how grateful I am

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Speaker 1: for what we have, and you know, you never know.

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Speaker 1: As blissful as their life was, it gets up ended

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Speaker 1: in an instant, and that could be any of us

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Speaker 1: in any circumstance, and we're we're lucky to have what

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Speaker 1: we have. You can't divorce yourself from the emotion to

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Speaker 1: do these stories and do them well and connect with

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Speaker 1: people that are willing to be brave and vulnerable like

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Speaker 1: Shawn and Carry were with me. You have to connect

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Speaker 1: with them on an emotional level too. You're not just

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Speaker 1: gathering facts and writing them down right, so it definitely

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Speaker 1: they all stick with you, and this this one will

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Speaker 1: definitely stick with me for a long time. It was

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Speaker 1: a beautiful, tragic, touching peace. Brian Burne said, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much. Brian burn said, as a contributing writer

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Speaker 1: for Sports Illustrated, we'll link to his piece in our

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Speaker 1: show notes. It's titled Life After seven six. Sean Bradley,

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Speaker 1: paralyzed in a bike crash, knows it will never be

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Speaker 1: the same. Up next, a deep dive on how NFL

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks have evolved and how that progression has changed the

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Speaker 1: sport forever. We'll try to make get a great while

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Speaker 1: to live struggling around at the eight game now looks

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Speaker 1: flames it back at the hands Amatis caught up for

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Speaker 1: the two. Connor Or is a staff writer for Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated and The Monday Morning Quarterback who wrote about the

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Speaker 1: revolutionary adjustments that have lately been made to how NFL

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks play the position. Forget about the old way of

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Speaker 1: doing things. Guys like Aaron Rodgers, Kyler Murray and Patrick

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Speaker 1: Mahomes have changed everything we thought we knew about the

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Speaker 1: right way to play quarterback, and as Or explains it,

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Speaker 1: that evolution traces back to the quarterbacks who came before

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Speaker 1: them and some other things you might not expect. All right,

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Speaker 1: For years, Connor, we've heard about sort of the right

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Speaker 1: way to play quarterback, that there was an archetype. You

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Speaker 1: want big guys with big arms who stay in the pocket.

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Speaker 1: But all of that has changed a little bit, at

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Speaker 1: least of late, and there's been what you called, what

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Speaker 1: you wrote about for Sports Illustrated, a quarterback evolution and

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Speaker 1: a coaching revolution as a result. We can sort of

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Speaker 1: trace all of this to Aaron Rodgers, of all people,

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Speaker 1: and something called the foot pop, which you describe as

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Speaker 1: an Irish step dance. Which I suppose makes Aaron Rodgers

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Speaker 1: and Michael Flatley of quarterbacks. But what is the foot pop?

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Speaker 1: How was it discovered? Why is it so important to

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Speaker 1: this quarterback evolution? So the football is really interesting. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was uncovered basically in the depths of football Twitter.

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Speaker 1: So there's an emerging class of quarterback coaches out there

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Speaker 1: who we're looking to do things differently. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that they were doing was looking at slow

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Speaker 1: motion mechanics and throws and all this kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: from the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And one of

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Speaker 1: the coaches, will Hewlett, who actually is Caleb Williams, his

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Speaker 1: personal quarterbacks coach, he saw this a long time ago

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Speaker 1: and started tweeting about it, and then a lot of

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Speaker 1: people started talking about it. He started teaching it to

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Speaker 1: some of his younger kids once they sort of mastered

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Speaker 1: the mechanics of it, and uh, it just caught on

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Speaker 1: and he saw he could do so much more. And really,

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Speaker 1: what it is is it's just this strange little thing

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Speaker 1: where normally quarterback coaches are gonna teach you to keep

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Speaker 1: your lead foot planted, um, because it's gonna help you

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Speaker 1: get stronger. This is almost like like a little piston

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Speaker 1: and an engine. It just pops up really quick before

429
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: it comes down. So it was like the foot comes

430
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: down as the ball's coming out, and you can do

431
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: things from different body angles. You can stretch your throwing distance,

432
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: all these really kind of cool things that we didn't

433
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: know we're possible for that and correct me if I'm wrong,

434
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: But it's like almost sort of like a mini bunny hop,

435
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: and an outfielder might take it's a little bit like that,

436
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: but it's almost like your back foot is still normal.

437
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: It's that lead foot that just sort of like pops

438
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: up just a little bit, so almost like a modified

439
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: crow hop from the outfield, I would say, but almost,

440
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: um like if you had to keep your back foot down.

441
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: Being that we're a podcast, will have to paint that

442
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: picture with words. Yes, but you rite that it unlocked

443
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: Roger's arm talent in ways that no one could conceive.

444
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: So how does he go from being Aaron Rodgers was

445
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: already good, to being Aaron Rodgers, who's even better? Yes,

446
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: So I made a I made a big interviewing mistake

447
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: when I was talking to Aaron Rodgers for this story,

448
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, so it made you be

449
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: able to make all these crazy throws. And his response

450
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 1: was sort of like, I'm Aaron Rodgers, I can I

451
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: can make most of those. Um. But what it did

452
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: was so he's had knee problems for almost his entire career,

453
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: Like he said, he's had knee problems for like nineteen years,

454
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: and so they're just really weird things like if he's

455
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: rolling out, for example, it limited the way that he

456
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: was able to maybe he had to stick to like

457
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: a throw that was in the short to medium range,

458
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: because it's like, Okay, if I bend my knee this way,

459
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm totally screwed. I'm just gonna twist my body into

460
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: a pretzel and I'm not gonna be able to exist anymore.

461
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: But with this little move when he's on the run,

462
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: like he can pop the foot up. It saves sort

463
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: of the pressure, and then it allows your body to

464
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of like torque in a way that you can

465
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: like you can almost throw across your body with the

466
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: same sort of power and distance that you would have

467
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: just from a set motion. And so you'll see things that, um,

468
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, I talked to some people who observe the

469
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: Packers offense for this story, and they're like, yeah, I

470
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: mean there's just stuff that they can call in a

471
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: playbook that we didn't know you even needed to defend,

472
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: because it's like, why would I put a guy over

473
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: there if the quarterbacks over here, he's not going to

474
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: be able to make that throw and then lo and

475
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: behold he starts torching people with this, and so everybody's

476
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: got to kind of react and move around. Yeah, I

477
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: mean that part is important, I think because it's a

478
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: copycat league and it's Aaron Rodgers doing it, so I

479
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: think it gives it automatic credibility. Whereas if you had

480
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: say Daniel Jones doing it and I love to throw

481
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: shade at the New York Giants anytime, like, but if

482
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: you had somebody like that doing it, then maybe you

483
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: don't get that same sort of credibility. So I'm wondering,

484
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: because it is a copycat league, does it give permission

485
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: to other teams and other quarterbacks to try something that

486
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: they might have otherwise seen as forbidden. I think not

487
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: at first, right, Because so here's the interesting thing. One

488
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: of the coaches that teaches it said, you know, I'm

489
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: teaching it to my kids and then they're going to

490
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: college and their coaches are saying stop that, and then

491
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: they're calling me, and I'm saying, why would we stop it?

492
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers does it? And then the coach says, well,

493
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,239
Speaker 1: your prospect isn't Aaron Rodgers. And he said, my response is,

494
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: how do we get another Aaron Rodgers if we don't

495
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: start acting like Aaron Rodgers? And it's kind of a

496
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: really interesting back and forth argument. He said. It's kind

497
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: of in split where he's had some college coaches just

498
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: say you're not allowed to do this anymore. But I

499
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: would say that the growing majority of college coaches now

500
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: are saying, you know what, why are we going to

501
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: try to fix something that isn't broken. This is cool.

502
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: If it works and you can hit all your throws

503
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: and everything looks the same, I don't care how it

504
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: comes out of your hands. As long as it's everything

505
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: is sort of productive. So I think that is the

506
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: growing consensus that as long as it's consistent and you're

507
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: winning with it, who cares. As you mentioned, I mean,

508
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: coach just tend even though it is a copycat league,

509
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: coaches tend not to want to be sort of super radical,

510
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: at least not be the first guys to try these things.

511
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: They want to keep their jobs too. So what kind

512
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: of pushback or reluctance or footpop deniers are we looking at.

513
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: There are a lot of footpop deniers out there, and

514
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: it's interesting, like, so there are coaches out there who

515
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: are incensed at Like there's a lot of Instagram videos

516
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: of kids doing footpops now, which is a thing. It's

517
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: like football TikTok, and the coaches are filming it in

518
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: the slow mo cinematic iPhone mode and there are people

519
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: that are like, you're ruining these kids and stop doing that.

520
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: And so there's sort of a war being raged on

521
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: where you say, well, we have to teach them the fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals,

522
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: And then there is the new crowd that's like, fundamentals

523
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: don't really exist, right because a clean pocket doesn't exist,

524
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: an uncontested throw doesn't exist, and unathletic defense doesn't exist.

525
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: So we're throwing out the textbook. And so I found

526
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: it to be really fascinating. It really depends on who

527
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: you fall in with. You know, you could be a

528
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: quarterback guru who still teaches things the way that they

529
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: did back in the nineteen sixties, or seventies, or you

530
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: could be one of these guys that is just um

531
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: when coach told me a third of their practice, now

532
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: I get ninety minutes with a kid. A third of

533
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: that practice is just doing whatever you want, like throwing

534
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: the ball side arm like you're a diving shortstop, or

535
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, spinning around and just doing the weirdest thing

536
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: you can imagine. Because he's like, because that's most of

537
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: what you're gonna have to do in the NFL. Now, Yeah,

538
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: that part I think is key because it's not just

539
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers who has decided, Okay, I'm gonna work on

540
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: this foot pop thing all of a sudden. We have

541
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the NFL who are sort

542
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: of quarterback freelancing on what would otherwise be traditional fundamentals, right,

543
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: and you have Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson throwing jump

544
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: passes or Patrick Mahomes who you mentioned shortstops throwing side arms.

545
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: We see that all the time where Patrick Mahomes is

546
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: changing his arm angle and dropping down to avoid a defenders.

547
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: So is this just sort of like the natural extension

548
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: of what we're seeing with the foot pop Now it's

549
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes

550
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: and all these other quarterbacks who who have decided, yeah,

551
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: I can do this in a non traditional way. Yeah.

552
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: And so the foot pop made that anomaly acceptable, so

553
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: that other anomalies could be similarly acceptable. So I talked

554
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: to Lamar Jackson's quarterbacks coach, who had a really interesting perspective. Right,

555
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: this is a guy who doesn't have a lot of

556
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: big time clients. He is a high school English teacher,

557
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: and they practice in a park alongside like kids in Florida.

558
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: This is not like, you know, an ivan drago operation.

559
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: And so he said, when Lamar started throwing the ball

560
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: side arm during games, for example, like I think his

561
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: first playoff game, he almost like bent a ball around

562
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: like a defender's head, like it was like a free

563
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: kick in soccer. And the coach is freaking out because

564
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: he's like, Okay, everyone's gonna blame this on me. I'm

565
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: gonna be looked at as the guy who ruined Lamar Jackson.

566
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna get any clients again. And then he said,

567
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: but what if the next time we practice, at the

568
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: end of practice, we just keep doing it and you

569
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: keep throwing its side arm and you build it in

570
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: to your repertoire and you make it consistent. He said.

571
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: You know, at the end of every practice, Lamar plays

572
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: with all the kids at the park, so they're tackling

573
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: each other and diving around, and they're chasing him around

574
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: and he's just throwing the ball over his shoulder and

575
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But they will take things from those

576
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: freelance periods with the kids that work and that feel

577
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: normal and that feel kind of like they could help,

578
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: and then they'll build them into the practice routines. So

579
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: next week, for fifteen minutes, you're gonna throw the ball

580
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: side arm. For fifteen minutes, you're gonna like pretend you're

581
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: falling down and throw it backwards over your shoulder, and like,

582
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to get as good at all

583
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: this stuff as the other stuff, because in a game,

584
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: it's just disapplicable as drop back, clean throw, all that

585
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So all this stuff feels new, But

586
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we also have a recency bias right

587
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: where we go, Oh, you know, Patrick Mahomes and Kyler Murray,

588
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson are so dynamic and they're the first guys

589
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to do it. But then I think about in order

590
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: for there to be an evolution, there must have been

591
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: someone or something that they evolved from. And there are

592
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: plenty of precursors in my mind where I go, oh, right,

593
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: Randall Cunningham was doing that, or Steve Young was doing that,

594
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: or Michael Vick more recently was doing that. There's play

595
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: from about the twelve and there's Vick As you talked

596
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 1: about John Roling and watching downfield for the shot Jackson

597
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: Whiscellars called the opening play all the way for a

598
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: touchdown yards. Is that sort of a natural extension for

599
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: these guys. Yeah. I think their existence um and success

600
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: allowed for the modern quarterback to be able to push

601
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: the envelope a little bit, right. I think it's every

602
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: successive generation is a little bit more envelope pushing. And

603
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: when Aaron Rodgers said, was being able to watch Brett

604
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: Farve for four years or whatever was huge because he

605
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: didn't really like his footwork was impeccable, but it looked

606
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: a lot different than what everybody else was doing, and

607
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: like it was beautiful, but it was not textbook, and

608
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: so he it kind of got me thinking and it

609
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: gave me mental permission to say, Okay, then I can

610
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: do things my own way too, and he said that

611
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: he was always drawn to people like that. He mentioned

612
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: Steve Young and Randall Cuttingham as two other examples, and

613
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, I mean, without those guys, I'm probably

614
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: not feeling that internal permission to be able to go

615
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: out there and do that. So, for sure, like those

616
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: sort of outlaws, and maybe we got one or two

617
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: of those a decade for the last few decades gave

618
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: us what we have now, which is, like I don't know,

619
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: probably a third of the league is not abiding by

620
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: these traditional, sort of dusty old quarterback standards. This natural

621
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: progression of quarterbacks would in anybody else's hands be a

622
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: typical straight sports story, Connor, but this was not in

623
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: anybody else's hands. This was in your hands. And you

624
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: are not a typical sports writer, and you got a

625
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: little weird with this one. And that's something I want

626
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: to get into. Explain to the listeners and to me, please,

627
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: what all this has to do with wizards in Puerto

628
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: Rico and elephants in Southeast Africa and dear mice from

629
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: ten thousand years ago. Yeah, So we were talking about

630
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: the idea of evolution and I sent an email to

631
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: Harvard's evolutionary theory department, and Dr Hopie Hochstra email me

632
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: back and she was like, Hey, I'd love to talk

633
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: to you about this, but someone from Harvard before that

634
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: called me and was like, let me just explain evolution

635
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: to you because I don't think you understand it. And

636
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: then like, before you talk to any of these really

637
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: smart people about this, let me just make you not

638
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: seem as much of an idiot. And it was very helpful.

639
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: And uh so when Dr Hochstra called I like googled

640
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: her really quickly and I was like, oh my god,

641
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: Like this woman is the science rock star. Right. She

642
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: basically reproved Darwin's evolutionary theory, but in a way that

643
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: we never or understood it before, that evolutionary change can

644
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: happen over the course of a light our lifetime. Like, no,

645
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't take tens of thousands of years. It takes

646
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: like eight months, nine months, you know, or whatever. And

647
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: so they did an experiment with field mice where they

648
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: went to Nebraska. They bought a bunch of land off

649
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: of this dude that they met at a bar named

650
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: wild Bill, and yeah, because why why not? So they

651
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: put dark and light mice and all these different enclosures, right,

652
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: and so they had dark soil and light soil, and

653
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: what happens naturally is light mice on dark soil get

654
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: killed by predators at a much faster rate because they

655
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: can see them dark mice. And the same for the

656
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: other thing. But over like the course of one or

657
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: two generations, the gene in the mice got passed down

658
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: to make them more adaptable to their environments. So the

659
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: light mice became lighter, the dark mice became darker, and

660
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: over time they were able to survive. And there's a

661
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: lot of these really interesting studies that are going on

662
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: about evolutionary speed in science. So another one was the

663
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: elephants in Mozambique. Because of the civil war, they're being

664
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: hunted for their tusks, and and just like a matter

665
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: of like one generation, the rate of tusk less elephants

666
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: fell dramatically because they're adapting right there, Like if these

667
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: kids are born with tusks, they're screwed. And so these

668
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: elephants are just being born without tusks at a much

669
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: faster rate than before. Same with lizards in Puerto Rico,

670
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: right where urbanization cut into the jungle. So all of

671
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: a sudden they sort of weighed out there, and within

672
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: two generations their toe pads get bigger. They can climb buildings,

673
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: they can stick to metal like they've never known anything

674
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: other than trees before, and they become faster to avoid

675
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: cars and bikes and all this other stuff. And so

676
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: it's sort of like analogous to like the way that

677
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: we change as people. Animals are doing this, and so

678
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: it's this like cool moment where it's like, Okay, we're

679
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: all sort of this one big thing and no matter

680
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: what life throws at us can kind of find a

681
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: way to survive. Quarterbacks have evolved. Connor Or, I greatly

682
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: enjoyed listening to you and reading you grow your sportswriter,

683
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: Lizard to Pad. Thank you for doing this, Thank you

684
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: for having me. You can read connor or Sports Illustrated

685
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: cover story in the Throes of Change on SI dot com.

686
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: After the Break the Wild True Story of the College.

687
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant almost attended, but didn't. He's a columnist for

688
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia in Choir and the author of the fabulous

689
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: new book Rise, Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality.

690
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: You've heard him on the Crossover with Howard Beck and

691
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: now he's here, Mike Selski. Welcome to Sports Illustrated Weekly. God,

692
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: it's great to be with you, my friends. Thanks for

693
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: doing this. Yes, congrats on the book. It's getting great reviews.

694
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: It's a subject that you and I know intimately we

695
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: have sort of a unique perspective on this. We're both

696
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: from Philadelphia, we're both roughly the same age as Kobe

697
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: would have been. Kobe went to a neighboring high school

698
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: not far from mind. I watched him demolish our high school,

699
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: which is why when we went off to college, I

700
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: was excited to think, oh, maybe, you know, maybe he

701
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: will also go to college and not just jump straight

702
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: to the pros. And I think Mike, in retrospect, looking back,

703
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: everybody just thinks, well, of course Kobe was always going

704
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: to jump right to the pros. But there was a

705
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: time when that was in question. And I want you

706
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: to set the stage for people. It's Kobe Bryant in

707
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: his senior year and he's deciding whether to go to

708
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: college or make the jump to the professional level. Explain

709
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: to everybody the hype surrounding him at the time. So

710
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: what was interesting about this guns and kind of taking

711
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: this trip down memory lane was how that height built

712
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: really gradually over the first three years that he was

713
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: in high school to the point where you look back

714
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: on and you're like, why aren't people in the media

715
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: and in the Philadelphia area making a bigger deal about

716
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: the fact that suburban city school has the son of

717
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: a former sixer on it and he's really good and

718
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: he is probably gonna turn out to be a Division

719
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: one recruit at a minimum. Right like freshman year sophomore

720
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: year for Kobe, there's very little written about him, or

721
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: even there's some buzz, but you really had to be

722
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: plugged in to hear it. And it's during that time

723
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: that he's really thinking, you know, I want to play

724
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: in the NBA, but college is probably where I'm gonna go.

725
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: And then junior his junior year, lower Marian really takes off.

726
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: They make the district championship game, they lose, but they

727
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: make it, and the team is better than it's ever been.

728
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: And so entering Kobe senior year, now he's a thing.

729
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: Now It's this been kind of gradual growing and building

730
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: and building, and entering his senior year, he's probably I

731
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: don't think it goes too far to say, like the

732
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: biggest basketball entity in the Philadelphia area, because the Sixers

733
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: are so bad. They are there at the bottom of

734
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference. They're god awful, and so it's Kobe

735
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: who's the star of the area. Yeah, and you're not

736
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: under selling that because Kobe goes as a high schooler

737
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: to practice with the Sixers, who are professional players, and

738
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: that's really when the hype and the buzz started to

739
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: ramp up. I mean again, I had seen him dunk on,

740
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: you know, my high school classmates, and that's one thing.

741
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: It's another thing when you hear that this kid from

742
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: Lower Marion who's jelly Bean Bryant's son, is now practicing

743
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: with the Sixers during his downtime. Tell us about what

744
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: some of those practices were like. Because Kobe didn't just

745
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: play well and acquit himself well, he basically dominated these guys.

746
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 1: Well he did and he didn't. All right, So there's

747
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: been a lot of myth making around the summer of

748
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of it is true. You know, Kobe

749
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: is sixteen years old, about to turn seventeen, and he

750
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: is scrimmaging and practicing and working out with Jerry Stackhouse

751
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: and Rick Mulhorne and Vernon Maxwell and Sean Bradley and

752
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: Sharone right in a bunch of Division one players who

753
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: are in the Philadelphia area at that time. And you

754
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: have to remember that, you know, the year before, the

755
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: Sixers had taken Jerry Stackhouse with the number three overall

756
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: pick in the draft. Kobe Bryant from Great Stock. If

757
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: father Joe telling me Bryant played for the Sixers is

758
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: now assistant coach with was South Joe Bryant. In fact,

759
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: as I said, coming Brant practice with the Sixers from

760
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: time to time, play for him right out, and so

761
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: he's playing against these guys and some days he is

762
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: dominating them, and some days they're beating him too. And

763
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: it's a situation where because he's young and because he

764
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: goes on to be great, some of the stories that

765
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: have been told about that summer are a little bit

766
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: amped up, right, Like, Jerry Stackhouse did not talk to

767
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: me for this book. He turned down an interview request,

768
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: And part of the reason I suspect he did is

769
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: that he's tired of hearing these stories and tired of

770
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: having to talk about how Kobe Bryant demolished him and

771
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: dominated him during that summer, because while Kobe did outplay

772
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: him at times, Stack got the better of him too.

773
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: But the point is a sixteen seventeen year old kid

774
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be holding his own against NBA players. There's

775
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: an anecdote in the book where Maurice Cheeks, who is

776
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: an assistant coach at the time, and Harold Katz, the

777
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 1: team's owner at the time, we're talking and Cats asks Cheeks,

778
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: who is this guy you know? Oh, he's Kobe Bryant.

779
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: He's he's from Lower Marian And Cat says, no, I

780
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: don't care where he lives. Where does he play like college?

781
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: Your team does he play for? And more Cheeks is like, no,

782
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: he plays at Lower Merion High School. And so that

783
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: adds to the lore of that summer, and to your point,

784
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: that's a turning point for Kobe because once he gets

785
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: through that summer, even as he's in the middle of

786
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: that summer, he realizes, you know what, I don't have

787
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: to go to college. I don't have to go to

788
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: Duke North Carolina anywhere else. I can make the jump

789
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: because I've gone toe to toe with all these guys

790
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: and held my own and I can do it at

791
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: the highest level. Yeah. Not surprisingly, Kobe pretty quickly realizes

792
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: that he could play at the professional level, which does

793
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: away with the idea of him going to college. But

794
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: there was for a time some thought that he would

795
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 1: still go to college. You mentioned Duke, you mentioned North Carolina,

796
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: and you mentioned somewhere else. Somewhere else is where you

797
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: and I come in, Mike, because the somewhere else was

798
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: Lasau University, a small liberal arts school in North Philadelphia,

799
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: where Joe Bryant, Kobe's dad, who played in the NBA,

800
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: went to college and at the time, jelly Bean Brian

801
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: as he's nicknamed, was an assistant coach for then head

802
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: coach Speedy Morris. The other reason why it's significant is

803
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: because both you and I went to Lasau University and

804
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: we're there at the time. I was a freshman, you

805
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: were a junior. And again the buzz on campus, the

806
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: whispers start to grow into full throated screams. What if

807
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant doesn't go to the NBA. What if he

808
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: doesn't go to Duke in North Carolina? What if he

809
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,959
Speaker 1: comes to his father's alma mater and reboots a long

810
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: dormant men's basketball program, and how excited were we at

811
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: the time, and what did Lasa I'll do in taking

812
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: some very interesting steps to try to court Kobe Bryant. Well,

813
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to put this in context, right,

814
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: guns Like LISAL had been a good, a really good

815
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: program for what it was in the MAC. It pretty

816
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: much could get to the tournament every year, had players

817
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: like Lionel Simmons and Doug Overton. And when I was

818
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: a kid and you were a kid, they were really

819
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: good teams locally. Then they moved to they make the

820
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: disastrous decision to go to the Midwestern Collegiate Conference. So

821
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: they're playing teams in the Midwest like Detroit Mercy and

822
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: all this. So the program is down. It's dormant, like

823
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: you said. So the idea, just the idea itself of

824
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: getting a player like Kobe Bryant was incredible to us

825
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: as students. They're like, oh my gosh, this could really happen.

826
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: His dad played here, coaches here, all that stuff. So

827
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: LISU is thinking the same thing. So it's athletic director

828
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: at the time, a god named Bob Mullen. The guy

829
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: had the idea of changing conferences and causing all this

830
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: problem decides he's gonna pull out all the stops to

831
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: try to get Kobe. He gives Joe Bryan a raise,

832
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: which is the first thing he does. But the more

833
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: interesting thing is that Kobe's second older sister, Shaya I

834
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: love the story, is a volleyball player at Lower Marion.

835
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: So one day John Kunzier, the women's volleyball coach at LASAL,

836
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: gets a knock on the door and it's from an

837
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: administrator at LASA who says, I have good news for you.

838
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: We came up with another scholarship for you in the program,

839
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: and we're giving it to an athlete named Shaya Bryant.

840
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: And the coach John comes literally goes, who is Shaya Briant?

841
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: I have never recruited her. I don't know who she is.

842
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: I haven't who is this? And LASAL gives Kobe's sister

843
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: a full athletic scholarship for volleyball in the hopes that

844
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: that will entice him and Joe to have Kobe come

845
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: to LASAL, and in retrospect, is just so desperate, kind

846
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: of small time in a way that you look back

847
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: on it and laugh. But by the same token, when

848
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: Kobe was a sophomore in high school and a junior,

849
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: he thought about it, you know, he thought about, Hey,

850
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: I can to play for my dad. We can get

851
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: all these other guys who I play with on the

852
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: a U circuit, like Rip Hamilton's and Sheen Holloway and

853
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: Larry Kentner and all these guys, and we'll do the

854
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: Fab five part two at LaSalle And then the summer

855
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: ninety five rolls around and he's like, yeah, the hell

856
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, And that's the end of that. How

857
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: was his sister as a volleyball player. I mean, obviously

858
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: the head volleyball coach was taken by surprise here. But

859
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: she did okay, right, she did okay in the one

860
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: year she was there. Shariah Kobe's the older of Kobe's

861
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: two sisters, was actually a much better volleyball player and

862
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,879
Speaker 1: had a terrific career at Temple. Shaa was pretty good.

863
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: She stayed for one year at Lasau and then after

864
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: Kobe ended up with the Lakers, she and Joe and

865
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: Pam moved out to the West Coast to be with

866
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: Kobe and lived with him. So you're saying, in retrospect,

867
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: it seems sort of small time and desperate and we

868
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: laugh about it, but that's not all Lassau was willing

869
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: to do to get Kobe Bryant. There were these rumors

870
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: that Speedy Morris, who was sort of a LaSalle legend

871
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: and a Big five legend for people who aren't acquainted

872
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: with Big five basketball, it's a big deal in Philadelphia.

873
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: It includes Villanova st Joe, LaSalle, Temple, and Penn and

874
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: Speedy had fallen on some hard times. The program had

875
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: fallen on some hard times, but he was still an

876
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 1: institution at LASA University. But according to the reporting in

877
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: the book, you think they would have been willing to

878
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: throw him overboard and elevate Joe Bryant if Kobe would

879
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: have gone there, right, There was discussion of that yedge.

880
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: This was kind of Joe's grand plan. There's a column

881
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: written into your former paper, my current paper, the Phiotoelphia,

882
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 1: inquired by a legendary columnist, Bill Lyon. It basically says

883
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: LASA should stay by Speedy Morris, and Lasal does, and

884
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: so this grand plan is never hashed and kind of

885
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: by that time, Kobe and Joe already know Lsalian happening.

886
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: Kobe's going to the NBA. Sonny Vacaro is where it's at,

887
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: not Speedy Morris. Yeah, and you and I both love

888
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: Speedy Morris. But given the choice between Kobe and Speedy,

889
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: I would have gone Kobe too. But it doesn't work

890
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: out that way. Lasal does not get Kobe Bryant. He

891
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: decides to jump to the NBA. But still, despite making

892
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: that decision, Mike, there's still a chance he might stay

893
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. Right there. It's not a foregone conclusion that

894
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: he ends up being drafted by the Hornets and traded

895
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: to the Lakers. There was a time when we thought, hey,

896
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: he might have landed with the Sixers. Well, the Sixers

897
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: have the number one overall pick in the draft, and

898
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: there are discussions in their front office amongst their scouts

899
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: and player personnel people, do should we take Kobe? Yes? Yeah.

900
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: Tony de Leo is a longtime executive for the team

901
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: and scout was very much supportive of that idea. He

902
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: wanted them to take Kobe. There were a couple other

903
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: people in there who did, but you have to put

904
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: that into context. To number one, it's Allen Iverson who

905
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: they wanted. You can kind of hardly rip them for

906
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: wanting to take Allen Iverson with the first pick in

907
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen NBA Draft. The Philadelphia seventy six is select

908
00:47:53,040 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: Allen Iverson from Georgetown University. It's so taking a school

909
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: player is perceived to be far riskier than taking a

910
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: college player, especially one that's built like Kobe. Right, Kevin

911
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: Garnett had come out the year before. He's seven feet tall,

912
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: he's muscular, he's built like a grown man. Kobe six

913
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: six and a guard, and there's just this risk associated

914
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: with taking a high school kid, so they play it

915
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: safe and take a I having said that, one of

916
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: Kobe's coaches at Lower Marion does in fact call up

917
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: the Sixers and get their general manager, Brad Greenberg on

918
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: the phone and say, look, I coach Kobe Bryant, the

919
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: smartest thing you could ever do would be to take

920
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: him with the number one overall pick. It'll be a

921
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: mistake if you don't. And it turns out the coach

922
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: was right, yeah, which is kind of whild because I

923
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: certainly thought that they should take Alan Iverson. It worked

924
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: out grade he was one of Philadelphia's all time favorite athletes,

925
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: and yet measuring career against career, it's still Kobe in

926
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: that scenario. But at least he didn't go to Villanova,

927
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: so that's all that matters. That's all that matters. And

928
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: you know, Lisa didn't get Kobe, but Lisa got the

929
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: two of us, so call it a push. You can

930
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: read him in the Philadelphia Inquire go get his excellent

931
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: new book, Rise Kobe Bryant in the Pursuit of Immortality.

932
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: Mike Selski, thank you for doing this. Thanks enjoyed it.

933
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrator Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated and

934
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

935
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

936
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. And for more of Sports Illustrated

937
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI dot com. This

938
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced by Alex Kappelman

939
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer. Our

940
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: senior producer is Dan Bloom. Our executive producers are Scott

941
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by

942
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: Nolan Schneider. Thanks for listening, and if you've stuck around

943
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: this long, we leave you with this from high schooler

944
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant. Jamaine Griffin, the number whose news back to back.

945
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: Tampis what do you say? We want to stay Jammy

946
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: a kid. Don't you ever forget it? Thank you very much,

947
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: it's been a pleasure. You see when when is it?

948
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety six, ninety six, see you in a little bit.

949
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. You're an ACES world up.