1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode ninety four. We're talking 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: about leaning in and leaning out, those wonderful phrases that 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: seem to have a lot of currency for people in 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: terms of their life choices. But Sarah, this is a 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: very busy time for you as you are sort of 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: leaning into your work life. Talk about your changing role 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: and what you're up to now. Yeah, I guess I 17 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: am leaning in right now a little bit. I spoke 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: previously on an episode about trans or maybe it hasn't 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: aired yet, so sorry for that if it's out of order. 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: But I am transitioning to program director in June, and 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm still doing basically zero point five to five FDEs 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: of clinical right now, and that doesn't really add up 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: to one. That adds up to more than one. And 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm not formally doing the PD role yet, but I 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: kind of am because the person that is leaving is 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: starting to appropriately transfer things to me. So I'm in 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: this weird double zone where I can't let go of 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: clinical duties until June first because I've already been booked 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: with patients. But I have more on my plate than 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: I really should GMU wise for the amount of clinical 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: that I'm doing. So yes, I'm in a little bit 32 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: of a lean in phase. I know that it's going 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: to be temporary. I'm not necessarily loving the double load 34 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: that I have right now. So I was saying, if 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: I could project a few months into the future, I 36 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: probably would, as sad as that sounds, but I think 37 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: the end result it's going to be totally worth it. 38 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: And you know, they sometimes say, oh, there's no temporary 39 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: busy phases, but sometimes there are. I mean, this is 40 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: like I could just pretend like I'm an accountant and 41 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: it's April, like it's gonna end. Yeah, it will end, 42 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: And as of June first, your your clinical duties go down, 43 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: so that's a pretty obvious and they're gonna go down 44 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: even more in twenty twenty when my call goes down. 45 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be a little 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: bit of a gradual but but yes, June will be better. 47 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Well that's pretty exciting, And so do you have big 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: hopes and plans for what you're gonna do as program director? 49 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: There's a ton to do there. I don't know about 50 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: hopes and plans, but I feel like the program has 51 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: been great. Our previous pds did a very nice job. 52 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: There are a lot of little details that I think 53 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: now that we are past the point of being brand 54 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: new and just sort of in survival mode, because launching 55 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: a new program is a lot of CEA to your 56 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: pants kind of stuff. Now it's time to kind of 57 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: clean things up, make it so that we can go 58 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: on more of an autopilot in the future. I really 59 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: one of the things I'm very excited to do is 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: kind of template out all of the yearly tasks that 61 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: go into running a program, as crazy as that sounds, 62 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: so it really is the kind of thing where if 63 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,119 Speaker 1: you're ahead of what you need to be doing for example, 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: setting up your candidate interviews. You need to book your faculty, 65 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: you need to book rooms, you need to prepare presentations. 66 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: You could certainly do that like three days prior. Well, 67 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: you can't invite people three days prior, but you get 68 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You can do that in a very 69 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: last minute scrambling way that's extremely stressful. Or you can 70 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: know that it's coming every year and in May kind 71 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: of be pinged by your master to do list that 72 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: it's time to start inviting people. That is much more 73 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: the style of how I work. So I'm excited to 74 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: bring kind of my style of leadership I guess to 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: the role, and I think it will I think it'll 76 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: be great. Yeah, now that sounds like a good approach. 77 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: And so it's going to be a bay again. Yes, 78 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: it's going to be bay again. It will be bay again. 79 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: And so if you know something will happen in May, 80 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: then it behooves you to put as much of it 81 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: on autopilot, like you said, as you can. So what 82 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: about your work life these days? Well, I guess I 83 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: don't have anything too big on the horizon. I've been 84 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: sort of thinking of my life as this three legs stool. 85 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: In terms of my professional life, I have the books, 86 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: my two podcasts, and my speaking and I am trying 87 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: to sort of as I've adjusted to having the second 88 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: podcast and getting in a rhythm of creating the content 89 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: for that. So that's coming along and just you know, 90 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: so none of this is new now, and I don't 91 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: have any big new projects on the horizon, so I 92 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: guess I'm just running with these right now. I suppose 93 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: eventually I need to figure out what my next book is, 94 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: and I'm spending some time writing fiction again. I'm revising 95 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: my National Novel Writing Months book that I wrote in November, 96 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: so hopefully that will turn into something reasonable. But you know, 97 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: one thing I'm thinking about is how all these different 98 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: things can support each other. That to you know, try 99 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: and mention books on the podcast, and mention the podcasts 100 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: and speeches, and you know, just to try to make 101 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: some more connections, mutually beneficial interactions between these three things 102 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: and get people into the Laura Vandercam world that they 103 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: hear the podcast and then buy a book or hear 104 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, buy a book and then have me as 105 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: a speaker. You know, we just all these things. It's 106 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: it's good to have connections between the two. But we 107 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: may have some changes for this podcast coming in the 108 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: near future. As some of you who read our blogs now, 109 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: we've been talking about how we would like to turn 110 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: this into more of a legitimate side hustle. You know, 111 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: people can go buy my books, but Sarah doesn't have 112 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: something that's a product people can then purchase as a 113 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: result of hearing her. So you know, it's it takes 114 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: a lot of time. I mean, we'd like to make 115 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: it more. I think in part it is to justify 116 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: the work to myself, because I love doing the work, 117 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: but I do recognize that it's work, and I recognize 118 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: that both of our time is valuable, and I love 119 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: putting this podcast out, and I do think that the 120 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: most painless way to continue to put this product out 121 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: in the exact same way that we've been doing so 122 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: is to add some ads to our podcast, which does 123 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: mean that we're taking a few seconds of your valuable ears, 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: because that's really what it is. But we think that 125 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, at this day and age, most podcasts, unless 126 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: they're sponsored or underwritten by some sort of public funding, 127 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: do have them. We've become a bit of an outlier 128 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: with time and we hope that people will support our 129 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: decision to do that. We will also certainly take feedback 130 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: in the way in which we do it, because we're 131 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: hoping to make it the least intrusive. We've even heard 132 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: from some people that they like ads in some podcasts 133 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: and that they've enjoyed finding out about certain types of products. 134 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: I certainly know that I've had ones that did resonate 135 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: with me and ones that didn't on other shows. So yeah, 136 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: we hope to be judicious in our choices, though, be judicious, 137 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: but most likely it'll be something like two sixty second 138 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: mid roll ads. So you know, you've heard us talk 139 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: about our love of the week, so we'll be talking 140 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: about other stuff. But yeah, this seemed like the most 141 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: straightforward way to do this versus, you know, creating premium 142 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: content like people do through Patreon or other such things. 143 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: So that's coming up and we'll definitely keep everyone posted 144 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: on that. So for the body of this episode, we 145 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about a post that kind of went 146 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 1: viral on Facebook. It will have been a few weeks 147 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: ago when this is this is out, so perhaps it's 148 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: already super saturated at this point to these viral things 149 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: only tend to last for a day or two, but 150 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: I know, I hope they haven't. For I hope our 151 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: listeners haven't forgotten about it by the time this day 152 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: we actually it because it's either of us, like, this 153 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing we really want to put 154 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: too much mental energy into thinking about. But a lot 155 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: of people sent this to us, and we thought, you know, 156 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: we'd like to do episodes on these sorts of things 157 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: from time to time. So Sarah, yes, I will be happy, 158 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: would you like me. I'm not going to read the 159 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: entire rant, but maybe I could just give a little 160 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: bit of highlights. So a little background. The person who 161 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: posted this her name, I mean, she's public as well. 162 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: Her name is Sarah Buckley Friedberg. I'm sure she's probably 163 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: a very nice person. She works for some kind of 164 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: medical device. Yeah, oh, that would be amazing, you know, 165 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: And actually, I guess we could invite her to respond 166 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: if she's interested. So she works, I believe as some 167 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of manager at a medical device company, and her 168 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: husband is a pediatrician. A quick Google search revealed that 169 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: he's a private practice pediatrician at a kind of small 170 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: to medium sized practice outside of Boston and there's nothing. 171 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: This post is a rant for really, in my opinion. 172 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: She starts at Society to working moms, and this is 173 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: sort of a to do list Number one. I'm not 174 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: going to read the whole thing. I promise go back 175 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: to work six to eight weeks after having the baby, 176 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: the baby that's spent nine to ten months growing inside 177 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: your body. And she goes on to mention that you 178 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: still have to break the glass ceiling and excel at 179 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: your job. She talks about the demands of breastfeeding for 180 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: at least a year, about losing the weight and getting 181 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: in shape, about keeping a very well run home, including recycle, 182 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: be Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth Fairy, the 183 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: birthday planner, the poop doula, the finder of lost things, 184 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: the moderator of fights. She mentions maintaining the schedule for 185 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: the family. She mentions getting presents for birthday parties. She 186 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: talks about children's activities and going to kids classes. She 187 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: has a segment saying, hey, kids need lots of doctor's 188 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: appointments monthly as babies, which I'll get to I guess 189 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: in a little bit. But that's not even typically true. 190 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: Volunteering at school, using up all of your vacation time 191 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: in the aforementioned things, providing your children with healthy meals, 192 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: dating your spouse, having a hobby, and you time having friends, 193 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: performing self care, and she goes into detail about that, 194 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: getting off your phone, turning off the TV, and enjoying 195 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: your life. These are the good times. Make sure to 196 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: love every minute of it because before you know it, 197 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: all of this will be in the past. That was 198 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: clearly tongue in cheek, and then at the end she said, 199 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I'm ready to lean out. 200 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to my ted talk. If you haven't 201 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: read the whole thing, it is an interesting I think 202 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: even just judge gauging your own reaction to it is 203 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: an interesting exercise. And it's available in its full form 204 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: if you don't have Facebook. If you google Romper and 205 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: then Sarah Buckley Friedberg, I think you will find a 206 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: post that links to it. Yeah. Fun from time to time, 207 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: and these are the sorts of posts that always go 208 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: like this is of course the issue. It's the rants 209 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: that always go viral, or the complaints about something like 210 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: she's been on Good Morning America. Now like she this, 211 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: this this worked, This res and it's to me, I mean, 212 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: I know, I'm ranting about a rant, so that's sort 213 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: of unfair. But and I will let you speak because 214 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: I just get the whole rant, and then I just 215 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: interrupted your thoughts on it. But to me, it resonated 216 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: wrong for three reasons. Number one, some of the things 217 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: in it even felt sort of not factual or unfair. 218 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: And I guess her point was that society's expectations are unfair. 219 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: But you know, we all feel free to interpret those 220 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: how we see fit. So, for example, you don't have 221 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: to breastfeed for Lisa here if you don't want to. You. 222 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: She mentions monthly doctor's appointments, when that's actually not I mean, 223 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: the schedule is typically one, two, four, six, nine, and twelve, 224 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: and typically most people are on attorney lead for those 225 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: first six eight weeks, so that takes care of one 226 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: or two of them. Her husband happens to be a pediatrician, 227 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: so I'm not sure why getting our kids to doctor's 228 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: appointments is such a hardship. She you know, talks about 229 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: having a hobby, like, you know, does she really not 230 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: have time for any kind of hobby? She has time 231 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: to write a rant on Facebook and go and good 232 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: morning America about it. That seems enough of a hobby 233 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: to me. And her conclusion that she was ready to 234 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: lean out as a result of all this, So even 235 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: if I do, you'd feel like it had validity. Her 236 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: conclusion is, doesn't lean out mean stop working or work less? Yeah? No, 237 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: I guess that's what I interpret lean out to mean. 238 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: Or I guess maybe just a general sense of frustration. 239 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean leaning out solves none of these problems. 240 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: You know, you will still have probably even more of 241 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: a pressure if you have this internal pressure to have 242 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: a pinterest worthy house. Well, if you're not working for pay, 243 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: you might have even more of a pressure to have that, 244 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: and you'll be in the house more because you're there, 245 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: and so it'll be like, now it has to be 246 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: pinterest worthy after breakfast or you know what. It would 247 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: have been a hout of the house before, and so 248 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: you would have had no sense of whether the house 249 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: was pinterest worthy after breakfast, and you know, I think 250 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: what happened. So rants are more likely to go viral 251 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: because people are like, oh, yeah, I feel frustrated too, 252 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: and this stuff gets spread around. It's like, oh, well, 253 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: we've rediscovered the wheel here, like you know that, yes, 254 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: sometimes life is challenging, and you know, then everyone taps 255 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: into their own sense of frustration about X, Y or z, 256 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: and it gets spread around and next thing you know, 257 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: it's out there, whereas sort of the practical solutions are 258 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: less likely to go viral, which is always a frustration 259 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: of mine. But it's a different angle of frustration. That's 260 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: my frustration of But I think what happens is people 261 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: get to these places of feeling overwhelmed, and I collect 262 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: these sort of rant pieces I guess, is how I 263 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: would say. Because there are these that appear, you know, 264 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: every couple months, that gets spread around and people are like, oh, yeah, 265 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: there was one a couple of years ago. I mentioned 266 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: in my book. I know how she does it from 267 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: like a lawyer who was quitting and what happened. Yeah, 268 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: people get overwhelmed, they have a really bad day or 269 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: bad week or whatever, and then they're like, something has 270 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: to change, right. That's the format of our stories is 271 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: you have these points of evidence leading up to an epiphany, 272 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: and the epiphany is that something must change. We must 273 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: dial down, scale back, opt out. Join with this Greek 274 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: chorus of the disillusioned chanting that no one can have 275 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: it all right. This is the format of stories we understand. 276 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: But the problem is that real life is not lived 277 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: in epiphanies, and it is entirely possible to have a 278 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: crappy day and have a crappy day and say that 279 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: nothing needs to change. That it just is the reality 280 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: of the human condition that there is bad stuff and 281 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: tough stuff and difficult stuff. But when you talk yourself 282 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: into the idea that something needs to change, well, if 283 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: you've convinced yourself that work and your personal life are 284 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: somehow in opposition, then you're like, well one of those 285 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: has to change, and you can't get rid of the kid, 286 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: and you probably don't want to, so that means work 287 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: has to change. But there is almost no problem that 288 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: will be solved by than not having the job. Not 289 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: having the income you will completely change the household dynamic 290 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: even more to be that you are doing the stuff 291 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: at home if you don't have the if you are 292 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: more focused on that. So it just isn't the solution. 293 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: I think that you could acknowledge that we all have 294 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: tough stuff in our life, and maybe there are some 295 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: practical solutions that you can do that would make life easier. 296 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: That would remove some of the pain points. And probably 297 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: two people in professional jobs as this couple are have 298 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: many of those opportunities available to them if they would 299 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: wish to pursue them. And that was my other feeling 300 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: about it. You know, some people readers of my blog said, yeah, 301 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, I this did resonate with me because I 302 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: find many of the things that you mentioned frustrating, and 303 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: I know that the best of both world's response is 304 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: going to be, you know, to outsource and find solutions. 305 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: And what we really need is a more supportive society 306 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: and paid maternity leave and you know, better universal childcare. 307 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: And I agree with that. But this Facebook rant came 308 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: from someone that's already living at a level of privilege, 309 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: like this is a too professional income family. So there 310 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: is certainly a very significant demographic of our country in 311 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: which having three and the world in which having three 312 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: children is extremely challenging. Number One, most of them don't 313 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: have the option of quote unquote leaning out. But number two, like, 314 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: that's just not that doesn't apply to this particular rant. 315 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: So I felt like, yes, maybe it does raise questions 316 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: about what we have available in terms of universal things, 317 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: But it was coming from the wrong person, Like how 318 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: dare I get up on a soapbox and be like, 319 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, my life is so hard. I have 320 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: three kids. All these expectations are on me, Like, no, 321 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: my life is super super easy compared to like ninety 322 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: nine percent of the world. And I made the choices 323 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: that I made to have three kids, and so did 324 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: this person. So I guess that's another Yeah. I mean 325 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: we also have the question of like who is this 326 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: society who puts pressure on some I think so much 327 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: pressure is just internalized and we like to assign it 328 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: to society. But if you like, who is this person, 329 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: Like I don't care if her house is pinterest worthy, 330 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Like I can't remember anyone who told me I needed 331 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: to breastfeed for a year, Like nobody said that to me, 332 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: like or that I was somehow less of a woman 333 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: if I didn't. You know that that never came up. 334 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: I don't think even the pediatrician said anything like that. 335 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: You know, they're just asked, are you breastfeeding? Oh? Great, awesome, 336 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: moving on to the next question, you know, or like 337 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: just yeah, So I wonder who this society is because 338 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people have talked themselves 339 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: into a whole lather about society thinks I should do X, 340 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: Y and Z. She maybe comparing herself to maybe she 341 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: lives in an affluent community where a lot of women 342 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: stay at home and have help, and she's comparing herself 343 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: to that. I mean, because the idea of having an 344 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: immaculate house and a perfect body and doing everything at home, 345 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: like that's kind of what I guess that would require. 346 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: Not that anybody would suggest that she needed to do 347 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: those things. Again, that's her Instagram feed or her social circles, 348 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: which again is her choice. Yeah, I would say the 349 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: one thing here that I feel like is an issue 350 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: is it sounds like perhaps her job is not terribly 351 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: flexible and that she did wind up using her vacation 352 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: time or PTO for all, you know, these various appointments, 353 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: which is a challenge if you only have a very 354 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: limited number of days. Definitely something to think about as 355 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: you are taking jobs. Again, if we have people who 356 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: are looking for new jobs, who are looking for or 357 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: who may be having kids in the future or have kids, 358 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: but it's something that you're negotiating with a job, you know, 359 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: that's something to definitely push for. Often it's easier to 360 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: get more PTO than it is to get more money, 361 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: So that's something you can definitely negotiate for. But there's 362 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: also the question of why is it all her? And 363 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, maybe she's talked herself and her husbands doctor 364 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: into the idea that will oh, I'm a doctor. Oh, 365 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: doctors can't do anything right, which is total bs because 366 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: as we've learned, as more women have become doctors, it 367 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: turns out that doctors can do things. Who knew there's 368 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: many male physicians who had convinced people over the years 369 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: that like a doctor could never take time off work 370 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: to deal with the child. Well guess what, as soon 371 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: as fifty percent of the you know physicians out there 372 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: are female, we learned that, Yes, imagine that you can 373 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: take time off to deal with a kid thing. So 374 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: it seems that perhaps he could have helped with that, 375 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: and if he didn't, that's an internal dynamic thing between 376 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: this couple that they need to sort out. But that's 377 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: again not society. That's you and your husband needing to 378 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: talk through. Why do you both believe that you know 379 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: the physicician somehow all the responsible important job. Yes, And 380 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: I find it particularly like funny in this in this case, 381 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: just because he is a pediatrician, so really the sick 382 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: kid stuff, he's got a nice fund of knowledge and 383 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: probably good connections to colleagues that he probably should be 384 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: the point person. Yeah, yeah, no, that does seem well, 385 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: you know, you never know what was going on in 386 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: any individual family, and you know that's uh. And sometimes 387 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: these things are related to how people grew up that 388 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: they've just internalized stories. There's a fascinating study that I 389 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: just read this morning that is that married women actually 390 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: do more housework than single women, including like moms. So 391 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: married moms do more housework than single moms, which seems insane, right, 392 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: Like if you're the only parent, of course you'd be 393 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: doing more because there's not another person to be helping out. 394 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: And yet that's not actually what happens. That perhaps single 395 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: moms are more focused on what actually has to get done, 396 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: needs to happen for the household of function, whereas married 397 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: mothers have more of a story of what a married 398 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: woman is supposed to be doing around the house, and 399 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: and you know, a story that they are telling themselves 400 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: of elaborate meals or you know, laundry done so frequently 401 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: that there's never anything in the hamper or whatever it 402 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: is that people have absorbed. But again, you know, single 403 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: moms run amazing households, so I question whether all of 404 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: it is necessary. I find it hard to believe that 405 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: it's the husband in particular making more housework by his 406 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: being there, Like I don't. I don't think that's it. 407 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: It's well, if that's true, that's sad too. I mean, 408 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: he can know it and it is not. They also 409 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: compared people who had other additional family members living in 410 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 1: the house, so it's not just if you have like 411 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: your aunt living with you, that doesn't create the additional 412 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, incentive to do the housework. I guess that 413 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: that people feel in that gendered sort of thing. But 414 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: again it's like these are stories we tell ourselves and 415 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: you don't have to do it right. There is no 416 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: rule that because you are married, the dinners have to 417 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: be any different than they would be if you were 418 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: a single parent. So you know, again we never know 419 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: what's going on in any household dynamic. But these are 420 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: also question you know, things you can discuss with your 421 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: partner and hopefully you know if you are feeling overwhelmed. 422 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: I presume if you are listening to this podcast, that 423 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: you have chosen a partner who is not a complete jerk, 424 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: misogynistic whatever, like, because that's just not really our demographic. 425 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: So probably you guys can work out a solution. And 426 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: maybe it's that he should do more. But it may 427 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: also be that you have expectations that aren't, you know, 428 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: necessarily required, and that's good to hash that out and 429 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: figure out where the stories come from. And I will 430 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: give this writer a free pass, and that she did 431 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: just post it on her Facebook page, so maybe she 432 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: was really just trying to rant about a bad day 433 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: to her friends and it blew up in a way 434 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: in which she was not intending. Like this didn't get 435 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: published as an Atlantic article. Yeah, so I always wonder 436 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: about those because you know, like there was another New 437 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: York Times recent article recently of like what good Dads 438 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: get away with, and you know, talking about it was 439 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: basically this writer complaining about what her husband doesn't do, 440 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, I I feel like, if 441 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to stay married, I would avoid writing articles 442 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: for national publications that throw my spouse under the bus. 443 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: That's maybe just me, but I haven't read that article, 444 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: but now I want to sounds juesy. Well, because we 445 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: all have things that we could complain about about ourselves. 446 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: Think about you could complain about me, I'm sure, think 447 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: about again. My favorite reference are prior to guess Jemma Hartley, 448 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: That's what her book kind of was. Yeah, I know, 449 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: and he sounds like a pretty great guy. But anyways 450 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 1: seem to be doing okay. Yeah, I don't know if 451 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: they have they must have a very very good marriage 452 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: that it could go through that and uh and and 453 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: probably be stronger as as a result. But you know, 454 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: I yeah, I it's complicated. I mean, I guess more 455 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: power to someone who wants to point out some of 456 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: the inequalities that do still exist on it. Like I've 457 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: pointed out before how I feel that women are sometimes 458 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: or I feel judged for things that I find my 459 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: husband wouldn't be judged for. So I guess if the 460 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: article was more pointing out that kind of thing and 461 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: they wanted to throw their husband under the bus for it, 462 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: more power to them. But it's hard for me to 463 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: comment more haven't not read the actual article. Yeah, so 464 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: maybe that'd be a future epithy Yeah, but you know, 465 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: there are practical solutions and particularly, we know that a 466 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: lot of listeners of this are in again to professional 467 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: income households. Think of money as tool and think about 468 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: what are my pain points? Is it possible that I 469 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: could remove some of them instead of telling myself a 470 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: story that I need to do all of it? You know, 471 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: it would be a really fun project to actually go 472 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: through this entire rent and rant and calculate the cost 473 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: of like all the band aids to fix everything in 474 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: her rent, and then subtract that from her an estimated salary. Look, 475 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: she didn't need to make this rant because actually she 476 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: could have ordered dinners and hired a trainer and had 477 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: a babysitter and blah blah blah blah blah. Exactly. Well, 478 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: our question today is somewhat related to this, So why 479 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: don't we because it's this question of how you do 480 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: relinquish some of these things, which I think is more 481 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: the question. It's not that all of it as society 482 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: makes me do X. It's that I feel I'm supposed 483 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: to do X, and I have trouble letting go of 484 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: the story that I should do X, and it is 485 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: making me miserable. So I think that leads to our question, Yeah, 486 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: go ahead re write it. So this person writes in 487 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: that she loves the best of both worlds podcasts Again, Yeah, 488 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: it's been really enlightening for me as a new mom 489 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: and definitely made me feel like I am not going 490 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: completely crazy during a pretty overwhelming time, which of course 491 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: is our whole mission. So yay, glad that's working. So 492 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: she says she has a question for both of us. 493 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: As a type A perfectionist upholder, I am struggling to 494 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: balance mothering, working and relaxing. I went back to work 495 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: when my son was three months old, but left when 496 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: he was around eight months old because her agency got 497 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: new leadership. They eliminated telework and she felt that made 498 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: the job feel impossible. So during that time, I still 499 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: found time to spend time with my son, breastfeed, train 500 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: for a marathon, and work. So what's what the train? Why? Anyway? No, 501 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: I did it. I get it and work, but I 502 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: was completely exhausted, sick all the time, and so stressed out. 503 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: I was having trouble sleeping. I'm about to start a 504 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: new job and I know that to survive, I'm going 505 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: to have to lower my standards in some areas of life. Therefore, 506 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: I have two questions, How do you know when to 507 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: be a perfectionist and when to let things go? And 508 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: how do you get over the fear that if you 509 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: let something small slow, everything will be completely out of control, 510 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: which is somewhat of a more psychological question. I think, 511 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: you know, some people have real tendencies this way. It 512 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: might bleed into anxiety, which is something that maybe somebody 513 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: might need professional help to address. And if that is 514 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: the case, there's nothing wrong with seeking that out. Do 515 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: you want to give your answer? I like your answer? Okay, Well, yeah, 516 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: I hope that language translation. I think our listener needs 517 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: to use different language than lowering her standards, because if 518 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: she is this perfectionist type a person, then some part 519 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: of her brain's going to be up. But I don't 520 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: want to lower my standards. And the issue here is 521 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: that she already did lower her standards. She quit her 522 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: job at eight months, which means she completely lowered her 523 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: career standards. She was doing nothing in terms of bringing 524 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: in income during that time. Those standards went way way 525 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: way down. But that's not the story she's telling herself. 526 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: Like the standards she's looking at are that if I'm 527 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, within the context of doing this. I need 528 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: to do everything perfectly within this and if I can't 529 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: do it, I will just quit, right, So I mean 530 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: I get the whole point of like if telework is eliminated, 531 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: it makes life a lot more difficult. But so the 532 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: point is she has lowered her standards and she survived, 533 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: like you know, life continued, so clearly she is capable 534 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: of doing it. It's just a matter of changing her 535 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: perception of what it means to lower her standards. And 536 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: I thought maybe she wouldn't want to use this language 537 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: of lowering her standards. Instead, I think she should think 538 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: of achieving a lot in the fields that matter, and 539 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: that the other fields don't matter, and so they're really irrelevant. 540 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: Like I'm not judging myself on my knowledge of Chinese 541 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: because there's no reason for me to have knowledge of Chinese, 542 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: so sure that there's no standards that I'm lowering, and 543 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: that it's just completely irrelevant. So I think she needs 544 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: to think that way as well about various aspects that 545 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: are not all that important. So you know, figure out 546 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: what matters to you and not to anyone else, really 547 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: question the stories of what matters to you. I had 548 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: wrote that personally, I doubt anyone cares what your house 549 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: looks like. I don't care what your house looks like. 550 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: You know, Sarah doesn't care what your house looks like. 551 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: Probably your your neighbors, your friends, I don't know. I 552 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: mean people randomly stopping by your house. No one's randomly 553 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: stopping by my house, Like, I just don't understand what 554 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: this idea of this is internal. But if it does 555 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: matter to you, then you can either throw money at it, 556 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: or you can build in time for it. You can 557 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: make sure it's a group project that everyone in your 558 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: family is contributing to. But these are all things same thing. 559 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: At work, you know, figure out what matters to you, 560 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: the actual parts of your job description, working out or 561 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: above your pay grade. That's a great phrase I heard 562 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: from one of our former guests, Laurence Smith Brady. Always 563 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: work at or above your pay grade. Focus on those things, 564 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, if only be responding to email in an hour, 565 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: if that is legitimately something you feel is like so 566 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: much part of your identity that you cannot let it get, 567 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: but hopefully you will realize can't let it go. I 568 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: like all that. I mean, I think another word for 569 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: it would just be to be very intentional about your 570 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: priorities because you one hundred percent can't do everything all 571 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: at once. Nobody can. You can do a lot. It 572 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: may be, for example, I mean, I don't know how 573 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: old the baby is now, but maybe breastfeeding it's done 574 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: with so great that will give you more time for 575 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: other things. Maybe it's not the best time to train 576 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: for a marathon. Maybe that could wait until your baby's 577 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: too and you could do other fitness endeavors that are 578 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: just enough but not enough to be prioritized. Because you 579 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: talk about basically making yourself feel stressed and sick, and 580 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: to me, the combination of the work and the breastfeeding 581 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and the marathon, it's like, I agree with your dubiousness 582 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 1: about the marathon in this particular context, even though as 583 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: we both know, we enjoy long distance running ourselves. You know, 584 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: there's a time and a place for everything. I do 585 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: agree with you that it may be that this person 586 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: needs some work on reframing what she's doing right and 587 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: working on perhaps some anxiety or around letting things go 588 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: and admitting that she can't do everything, but not exercising 589 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: the nuclear option, which was I guess getting rid of 590 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: the job automatically just because it was something that she 591 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: was able to do, because long term she may find 592 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: that that didn't make the most sense. I mean, if 593 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: that's if that was her choice when her child was 594 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: an infant and it worked for her, then great. But 595 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: it didn't sound like it happened in a happy context. 596 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: It sounded like it happened in a very desperate context 597 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: and after being miserable for a while. So how could 598 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 1: we maybe prevent that the next time around if there 599 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: is going to be a next time for her with 600 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: another child? Yeah, well, and just starting a new job. 601 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the truth is all jobs have challenges, and 602 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: unfortunately people sometimes change jobs thinking everything will be different, 603 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: and it can be. But if anything is about you, 604 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: you are still the person doing the new job. And 605 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: so sometimes I get, you know, letters from people that 606 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: it goes on like this, Well I had this job 607 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: and then that turned out, you know, there were no 608 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: boundaries and I was working all the time, and so 609 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: I had to leave and then I found this another job. 610 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: It started out great, but then it turned out they 611 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: had no boundaries and I was over Always like, hmm, 612 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: interesting pattern pattern. I wonder what is the common denominator 613 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: between all these positions, and so we have to do 614 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: some soul searching and working on ourselves to achieve that. 615 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: I think you know, she says, how do you get 616 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: over the fear that if you let something small slide, 617 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: everything will be completely out of control? Again, this may 618 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: be a larger issue that you need to work on personally. 619 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: I just keep saying, you know, one bad day means nothing, 620 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: one bad week means nothing. If you think about do 621 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: you have any knowledge? For most of people listening to this, 622 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: what were you worried about and thinking about on today's 623 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 1: date two years ago? And I am guessing you have 624 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: no clue, and being human, there was something like you 625 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: were definitely mad about something, you were upset about something, 626 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: you were frustrated about something, and two years on you 627 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: have absolutely no clue what it is. So probably in 628 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: two years, whatever it is you're worrying about will not matter. 629 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: Something's obviously they will, you know, if it's a major 630 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: health issue or something that's driving your marriage a part 631 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: or something, yes, that will play out in two years, 632 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: but most things do not rise to that level. It 633 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: sometimes helped to change our language from oh no to 634 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: oh well, I love that, I love oh no, to well. 635 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: In fact, I think we used that when we thought 636 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: we lost an episode the other week, and I was like, 637 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: oh no, and I think your response is more like, 638 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: oh well, we can always r it's true, like you know. 639 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: And I emailed our guest and she was very nice 640 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: about it, and she had a rate. She put a 641 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: time on her schedule to redo the interview with me 642 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: because we couldn't get back on Stara's calendar. She was 643 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: in clinic. But I could do it. And you know, 644 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be as good as if we had both 645 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: of us, but it would be there. We would have 646 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: the same episode. It was just be paced together from that. 647 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: Unfortunately we recovered the files. We didn't have to do it. 648 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: It wasn't worth getting upset about at all. It's definitely 649 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: an O well, not an O well, not an oh no, 650 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: all right, Well, I think this brings us to our 651 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: Love of the Week, which is actually a follow up 652 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: from a previous episode. We had a question about a 653 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: year ago from a listener who was considering going to 654 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: law school as like an adult. So she had three children, 655 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: she sort of was intensely in the mother phase with them, 656 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: and then she decided to go back to work when 657 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: they were maybe starting school as a paralegal. She was 658 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: excelling as a paralegal, did great starts looking around and says, huh, 659 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, I got a you know, four puot oh 660 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: gpa in college. I could probably do this stuff that 661 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: the lawyers I'm working with do. And so she was 662 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: debating going to law school, and she wanted to know, well, 663 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: was she too old for law school? And we answered, no, 664 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: you're not. You know, just think it through. If your 665 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: family's supportive, and you know, you have a pretty clear 666 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: idea of what lawyers do with their days, and if 667 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: that looks attractive to you, then sure, why not. I 668 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,439 Speaker 1: found this interesting because we, I think had the most 669 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: negative feedback we've ever gotten on an answer to that question. 670 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know if there's a proportion of unhappy 671 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: lawyers out there or what it is, but I got 672 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: a lot of comments on my blog about this. I 673 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: don't know if you heard from as many people, but no, 674 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: I think it was mostly in your blog. Yeah, it 675 00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: was a lot of people like but yeah, they were. 676 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: They were generally from women who had been in big 677 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: law for maybe a decade saying like, no, don't do it. 678 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: And cautioning her about not being able to pay back 679 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: her loans. And I mean, I guess we don't have 680 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: a long term answer of what's going to happen with 681 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: this person, this listener. But Laura, do you want to 682 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: give them the happy news? The happy update is she 683 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: took the ELSAT, got an incredible score on it. Nailed it, 684 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: nailed it, totally nailed it. She was accepted to a 685 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: couple of really big, fancy law schools. However, she was 686 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: also accepted to a state law school that was near 687 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: extended family, and that gave her a full ride, and 688 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: she wants to work in that and she has her 689 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: goals in mind, and she knows that there certainly is 690 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: a path from this law school to what she wants 691 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: to do. She's not thinking about. She recognizes that law 692 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: does sometimes depend on name recognition if you're thinking of 693 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: working for a big firm, but that was never her aspiration. 694 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: So she wants to practice in the state near extended family, 695 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: so she and her husband are in the process of 696 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: moving there. She will be enrolling in the fall, again, 697 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: not taking on any debt because it's completely paid for. 698 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: And also, I think what some of these lawyers were 699 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: going through had such a negative response to this is 700 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: they've sort of been through the early kid years with 701 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: the whole billable hour expectations. But of course her kids 702 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: are now in school right like, they're older, and you know, 703 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,479 Speaker 1: she said she focused intensely on that for the first 704 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: part of their lives, and now she's ready to do 705 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: something professionally herself that she's very excited about. And I 706 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: think it's so wonderful that her family's like completely behind that. 707 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: Her husband's like, yeah, I'm just going to find a 708 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: new job in this new state and it's going to 709 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: be great, presumably. You know, they've got a lot of 710 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: extended family there, so a lot of connections that they're 711 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: pretty positive about that. So yeah, it's super cool that 712 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: she's not even going into any debt, you do. I mean, 713 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: that is the most awesome part of this. And I'm 714 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: sure she could be able to do internships during the summer, 715 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: so she'll be earning something with that, And yeah, I 716 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: think this is such a wonderful result and I'm thrilled 717 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: for her and that she went for her goal, for 718 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: her dream. So that's our love of the week. A 719 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: people who make it happen all right, well, this has 720 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: been best of both worlds. We've been talking about leaning 721 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: in and leaning out and what that means. We'll be 722 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: back next week with more on making work and life 723 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah 724 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox 725 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura 726 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,479 Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both 727 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on 728 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: making work and life work together.