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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about the nineteen fifty nine

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Speaker 3: drive in sci fi horror movie The Wasp Woman, starring

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Speaker 3: Susan Cabot, directed by Roger Corman. It is a tale

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Speaker 3: of beauty, vanity, mortal anxiety, and science gone wrong. Shot

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Speaker 3: in two weeks for under fifty thousand dollars. And this

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Speaker 3: one is classic late fifties Corman. It is lean, mean, funny, weird,

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Speaker 3: stupid and smart at the same time. It's barely over

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Speaker 3: seventy minutes runtime in the longest cut. I think there

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Speaker 3: are shorter cuts that are sub seventy. I don't know

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Speaker 3: which one you watch.

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Speaker 2: I watched the theatrical cut, which is the shorter. I

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Speaker 2: believe we'll get into this later, but I think you

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Speaker 2: watched the TV cut.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I got some stuff you didn't see, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, namely the intro. Okay, So we'll get into

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Speaker 2: some of those differences as we perceive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's funny that, like some of these

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Speaker 3: late fifties Corman movies, it is extremely short and quite

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Speaker 3: brisk in the storytelling, and yet still feels like it

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Speaker 3: has significant padding, like all of the bee keeping footage

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Speaker 3: at the beginning that feels like they're padding that thing out.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it literally was, yeah, because it's

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Speaker 2: not President the theatrical.

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Speaker 3: And then there are also several subplots in the In

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Speaker 3: the like middle to late stretch of the movie, there's

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Speaker 3: one part where they hire a private detective to determine

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Speaker 3: the fate of a character whose fate we already know,

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Speaker 3: and there's not really any suspense there. We've just got

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Speaker 3: like a montage of a PI running around town asking

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Speaker 3: people questions.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, I kind of like that one.

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Speaker 2: I liked how kind of helped build up the setting. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm to understand some folks find this movie a bit

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Speaker 2: of a bore just looking around at reviews online, but

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Speaker 2: I think I really liked it overall. You know, obviously,

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Speaker 2: the budget is stretched thin, the monster is not well realized,

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Speaker 2: as we'll discuss, but I found it it's synthetic Golden

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Speaker 2: Age mad Men era New York City rather convincing and attractive.

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Speaker 2: I thought the plot, while build on the bones of

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Speaker 2: a you know, classic mad science and tropes, felt a

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Speaker 2: lot more nuanced, and all of the actors do a

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Speaker 2: solid job. More to the point, I liked how this

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Speaker 2: is not a villain picture. You know, we definitely descend

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Speaker 2: into a world of monstrosity and horror, but it's a

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Speaker 2: tragic trajectory taken by characters who were just trying to

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Speaker 2: advance in their careers and, in the case of our

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Speaker 2: main character, hold on to their youth, both extremely relatable

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Speaker 2: motivations that are encouraged by nearly every aspect of American

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Speaker 2: culture back and today as well.

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Speaker 3: You're correct that the movie really doesn't have a villain,

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Speaker 3: even the mad scientist character, and it is not especially mad.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's doing things that are dangerous, but part

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Speaker 3: of the danger comes from collaborating with someone who is

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Speaker 3: not heeding the levels of caution that he himself advises.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah too, it's the massic Yeah tag toxic

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Speaker 2: duo for sure. That's a great way of.

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Speaker 3: Putting Yeah, but I like this movie also. I think

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Speaker 3: in order to appreciate it, yeah, you have to understand

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Speaker 3: what you're getting with a movie like this. Like these

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Speaker 3: late fifties Corman films we've talked about several on the

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Speaker 3: show before, they are not highly polished works of art

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Speaker 3: to compare them to other sci fi and horror films

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Speaker 3: of the time. They are certainly not deeply thoughtful tales

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Speaker 3: like The Incredible Shrinking Man, which we've done on the show,

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Speaker 3: or like Godzilla, the original Godzilla. They are also not

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Speaker 3: finally tuned through machines like The Thing from Another World.

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Speaker 3: You know that is like, maybe not as thoughtful as

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Speaker 3: a movie like The Incredible Shrinking Man, but it is

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Speaker 3: just it is a machine. You know, it works. The

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Speaker 3: Corman movies of this era are also not even like

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Speaker 3: the later Corman movies we've done, like his Edgar Allan

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Speaker 3: Poe films, which had more time and money to invest

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Speaker 3: and Corman could focus on making a more refined and

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Speaker 3: finished product. These late fifties Corman movies to me, feel

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Speaker 3: more like a kind of exciting and curious exercise. It's

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Speaker 3: like you're getting to watch the result of teams of clever,

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Speaker 3: creative people with a good collective sense of humor about

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Speaker 3: what they're doing, racing through weird, little timed puzzles with

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Speaker 3: imperfect but interesting results. It's all you know, Like, how

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Speaker 3: fast can you write a script about psychic crabs? How

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Speaker 3: fast can you come together with an idea about bees

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Speaker 3: and fear of aging? How fast can you shoot it?

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Speaker 3: What kinds of off label solutions for special effects are

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Speaker 3: you going to come up with? And then even just

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Speaker 3: in terms of the characters, Like a lot of times

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Speaker 3: these movies feel like they have significantly improvised character moments.

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Speaker 3: Can we think up something funny for the secretaries to

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Speaker 3: be talking about before the next wasp kill scene?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like everybody, everybody's really working to deliver this thing

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Speaker 2: on time and under already limited budget, but they're still

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Speaker 2: doing their best. Like nobody's just trying to create slop

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Speaker 2: here it's and you get that energy watching the picture.

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Speaker 3: It's not slop. It is not in a way I

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Speaker 3: would say it is. We've talked before on the show

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Speaker 3: about the sensibility of Stanley Kubrick that the perfectionist approach

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Speaker 3: to making films where you have a very locked in

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Speaker 3: creative vision and you might even go to excessive lengths

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Speaker 3: to achieve exactly your vision to make it perfect. Corman,

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Speaker 3: I think has the exact opposite sensibility about filmmaking. In

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Speaker 3: these early movies, He's gonna make a movie and it's

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Speaker 3: not gonna be incompetent. It will be a smart, competently

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Speaker 3: executed project, but he's just gonna cut a lot of

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Speaker 3: corners to make it come together fast, and it will

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Speaker 3: be in the end interesting and amusing to see how

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Speaker 3: they get there. And so as a result you get

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Speaker 3: these movies that, at least when I watch them, one

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Speaker 3: of the things I like the most about them is

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Speaker 3: how you can just feel them bristling with this sense

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Speaker 3: of improvisation and craftiness, Like there's a strong first draft

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Speaker 3: feeling to everything. You can notice lots of little mistakes,

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Speaker 3: like sometimes the windows are made out of paper, and

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Speaker 3: so there's just this how are they gonna pull this off?

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Speaker 3: Kind of feeling That makes movies like The Wasp Woman

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Speaker 3: and movies like Not of This Earth, which we've also

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Speaker 3: done on the show interesting and appealing to me.

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Speaker 2: The first draft of observation is definitely apt for a

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Speaker 2: film like this too. Were one of the I think

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Speaker 2: the main things that we're going to complain about with it,

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Speaker 2: or point out that is less well formed is the

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Speaker 2: way that the monster looks, and this is just not

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Speaker 2: the sort of picture where they were ever going to

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Speaker 2: come back and say everything's working really well except the monster.

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Speaker 2: We're going to reshoot those things now, that's not going

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Speaker 2: to happen. They had like one shot at making the

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Speaker 2: effect look as good as possible and then shooting it

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Speaker 2: as well as possible, and you know, given the limitations,

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Speaker 2: it's fine. It just we watch it now and we realize,

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Speaker 2: oh man, it could have been better.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. It just came up recently on

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Speaker 3: the show. Even Albert Pune was sometimes subject to reshoots,

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Speaker 3: demand for reshoots, but I just don't think there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of that going on with the Wasp on. So

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Speaker 3: the basic structure of the plot will not hold any

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Speaker 3: surprises because it is a very familiar type of story.

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Speaker 3: There are tons of movies that have basically this premise,

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Speaker 3: and we'll get into more examples and other parallels as

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Speaker 3: we go on, but the general plot outline goes like this.

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Speaker 3: The actress Susan Cabot plays a character named Janis Starlin

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Speaker 3: who is the founder and chief executive of a successful,

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Speaker 3: multimillion dollar cosmetics company. She is not only in charge

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Speaker 3: of the business. She is I think like a former

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Speaker 3: beauty queen herself, or she's some kind of glamorous. She's

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Speaker 3: glamorous looking. So she is also the face of the company,

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Speaker 3: appearing in all of their advertisements.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if there's really a parallel for this,

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Speaker 2: except for maybe the MyPillow guy. Right, it's the only

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Speaker 2: thing that comes to me now.

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Speaker 3: I was trying to think of people companies today where

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Speaker 3: the CEO is like the celebrity who represents the brand. Also,

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Speaker 3: and there are examples, but they're more kind of disgusting.

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Speaker 3: Cultural celebrity is not like beauty.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I actually I don't know that much about beauty products.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there are companies like this, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, certainly, I guess they are example. Well, I

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Speaker 2: don't even know how those were. I was going to

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Speaker 2: say they are examples. Were like, you'll have a celebrity

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Speaker 2: that is pushing a product that is maybe somehow tied

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Speaker 2: up in ownership, But I don't know if you can

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Speaker 2: really compare them to a CEO.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, anyway, so she runs the company. She founded

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Speaker 3: the company, and she is the face on all of

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Speaker 3: the billboards. But after many years of success, sales have

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Speaker 3: begun to decline, and Starlin has become self conscious about

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Speaker 3: her appearance. And there are actually some interesting wrinkles to

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Speaker 3: how this is presented in the plot that we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about later. But she is now feeling self conscious about

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Speaker 3: the fact that she is around forty years old, and

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Speaker 3: she is afraid she has lost her youth and her beauty.

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Speaker 3: She desperately wishes she could be young again. Inter another

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Speaker 3: character are mad scientists are actually not all that mad?

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Speaker 3: Are half mad? Scientist? He does talk to wasps I

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Speaker 3: guess doctor Xenthrop. He is an eccentric scientist, if not mad,

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Speaker 3: who has spent decades studying bees and wasps, and he

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Speaker 3: tells Starlin that he has an enzyme extracted from wasp

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Speaker 3: queens that cannot only stop the aging process, it can

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Speaker 3: actually reverse it, restoring lost youth. And then, unable to

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Speaker 3: wait for all of the safety tests to finish, Staralin

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Speaker 3: jumps the line and uses the serum on herself, and

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Speaker 3: at first the effects are wildly successful, as she appears

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Speaker 3: twenty years younger, but whoops. The treatment has some negative

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Speaker 3: side effects and it occasionally turns you into a bloodsucking

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Speaker 3: wear wasp.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's kind of your standard tragedy horror monster

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Speaker 2: trajectory here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one thing I wanted to note, there's a line

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Speaker 3: from the trailer that says, a queen of beauty by

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Speaker 3: the day a lusting queen wasp by night. It's totally wrong.

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Speaker 3: I don't a lusting queen wasp. I don't think there

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Speaker 3: are any elements at all of lust in the behavior

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Speaker 3: of Staralin. Even when she's in wasp mode. She's not

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Speaker 3: going after men who she desires in any way, and

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Speaker 3: she doesn't even lure or seduce her victims in a

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Speaker 3: sexually explicit way at all to kill them. She she

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Speaker 3: just runs at them with wasp face and then bites

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Speaker 3: their necks.

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Speaker 2: Right, And the monster is not even know sexy in appearance,

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Speaker 2: so there's there's no way to even project that on

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Speaker 2: the monster here.

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Speaker 3: No, it's a strictly haphazard, violent form of attack that

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Speaker 3: has no elements of sexual attraction or enjoyment on either

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Speaker 3: party's behalf.

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Speaker 2: And she's not even really she's not a queen of beauty,

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Speaker 2: but I guess she's she's not a beauty queen by day.

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Speaker 2: I guess she is a queen of beauty. And that

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Speaker 2: she's the CEO of a cosmetics company. But still they're

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Speaker 2: pushing it.

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Speaker 3: Here with that Part's right, she is the executive of

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Speaker 3: a cosmetics company, and she uses her own face in

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Speaker 3: the advertising. I think that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But would she call herself a queen of beauty? I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but yeah, So I thought this was

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Speaker 3: kind of interesting that there there is an anxiety there

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Speaker 3: in the marketing and almost makes it feel like somebody

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Speaker 3: thought after the fact. I wonder if this movie should

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Speaker 3: have had something about sex in it, like it should

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Speaker 3: have been sexy in some way or been about sexual attraction,

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Speaker 3: and it's really not. Though beauty is a major theme.

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Speaker 2: Well when the first time, it wouldn't be the last

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Speaker 2: time that promoss decided to change that on the Fly

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Speaker 2: after the fact with the poster and the promotion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's pretend there's some sex in here. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I had to see what Michael Weldon had to say

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Speaker 2: about this movie and the psychotronic film Guides, and one

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Speaker 2: of the main things he points out is that this

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Speaker 2: comes out a year after the success of The Fly,

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Speaker 2: so there's a certain amount of Okay, quick, pick another

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Speaker 2: insect and let's put a feminine twist on it.

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Speaker 3: There you go more after the races. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: there's a lot to that. This would be the Fly

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Speaker 3: with Vincent Price. I didn't realize that was just the

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Speaker 3: year before. So yeah, a different insect movie, kind of

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Speaker 3: like ooh, Halloween was just a big hit. Let's do

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Speaker 3: Friday the thirteenth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and all the other holidays. So which

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Speaker 2: works of which to Another interesting thing to point point

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Speaker 2: out about this film is that it is I think

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Speaker 2: at some point in its development it was going to

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Speaker 2: be about a bee woman and then they changed it

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Speaker 2: and said, actually, wasp, it sounds more aggressive. We like,

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Speaker 2: this sounds more evil, less nurturing somehow, you know, no

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Speaker 2: connection to honey. But still there's a whole lot in

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Speaker 2: the plot where you can you can clearly see that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this was about bees, including yeah, yeah, including the whole

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Speaker 2: business with beginning and ending the film with bees. So

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Speaker 2: if you were I urge viewers of this film try

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Speaker 2: not to be too much of a stickler regarding just

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Speaker 2: basic biology, like the difference between one animal and the next.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to hold up. You're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: let that go to enjoy this movie.

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Speaker 3: It is totally hopeless. In fact, there are even parts

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Speaker 3: where the character is looking at wasps and then the

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Speaker 3: camera shows you their point of view and it's just bees.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, this film certainly became a favorite for a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks, and you know, Develt quite a following,

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Speaker 2: and has also been remade at least at least twice

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Speaker 2: and possibly a third time. I'm very excited about that.

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Speaker 2: But first, so this came out in fifty nine, as

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Speaker 2: we've been discussing, in nineteen eighty eight there was what

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Speaker 2: is largely considered, if not a remake, then something was

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Speaker 2: heavily based on The Lost Woman and clearly inspired by it.

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Speaker 2: And that's nineteen eighty eight's Rejuvenatrix, a film by Brian

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Speaker 2: Thompson Jones, and it also features euro horror actress Jessica Dublin.

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Speaker 2: And I've not seen it, but I've been familiar with

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Speaker 2: it for a while. I've seen, you know, images from

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Speaker 2: it and some clips. I think the vibe is roughly

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Speaker 2: sort of Trouma adjacent New Jersey body horror, which maybe

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Speaker 2: shades of eighty five's Reanimator. I think the title alone

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Speaker 2: is kind of a reference to that. Brian Thompson. Joan

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Speaker 2: had worked on TV's Tales from the Dark Side, and

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Speaker 2: you'd go on to work on another anthology series, Monsters.

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Speaker 2: It has really grotesque makeup effects from Ed French, Dan

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Speaker 2: Frye and Bruce Spaulding Fuller, all mainstays of the industry.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, basically similar, similar situation, but with really gross

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Speaker 2: monster effects. I would argue, argue, maybe they're two gross.

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Speaker 2: Then in ninety five you had just a straight up remake,

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Speaker 2: The Wasp Woman, produced by Corman, directed by Chopping Miles

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Speaker 2: Jim Wnarsky, starring Jennifer Rubin and with both Garrett Graham

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Speaker 2: and fred Olin Ray in the cast. So you know

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Speaker 2: this one's classy. I include I love both those guys,

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Speaker 2: but if they're involved, you can you have some suspicions.

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Speaker 2: And I included an image for you here, Joe of

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Speaker 2: the monster. A lot more work went into this monster,

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Speaker 2: but I think you might note the busky corset. Look

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Speaker 2: for the creature's exoskeleton.

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Speaker 3: Here a wasp with cleavage. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I also haven't seen this one, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I doubt that it's going to be as thoughtful as

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Speaker 2: the original.

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Speaker 3: I've watched part of this because I just found it online.

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Speaker 3: I was like, well, what is this like? I mean,

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Speaker 3: my eyes could not take it. It has that I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: Jim Winorsky. I mean, I've liked some of your work,

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Speaker 3: but it has that hideous nineties made for TV look.

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Speaker 3: That's just like everything is gleaming in a way that's

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Speaker 3: very unpleasant, and the colors feel desaturated and nasty. It's

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Speaker 3: got a cellophane kind of look. I couldn't deal with it.

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Speaker 2: It's a rough era for film, for sure. Yeah, but hey,

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Speaker 2: I have my hopes so because as you and I

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Speaker 2: were discussing just the other day, this is something. The

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Speaker 2: news about this came out in December, but I somehow

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Speaker 2: missed it initially. But there is a new remake in

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Speaker 2: pre production. Level of pre production, and this was reported

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Speaker 2: in Variety. It is set to is a remake of

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Speaker 2: The Washwoman, set to star Amy Sidaris and her longtime

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Speaker 2: collaborator Paul Denello. He's going to write and direct it.

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Speaker 2: They of course both worked on Exit fifty seven, Strangers

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Speaker 2: with Candy and At Home with Amy Sedaris. I'm really

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Speaker 2: excited for this one and hope that it comes to

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Speaker 2: fruition because watching the original film the original Wasp Woman.

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Speaker 2: I just kept noticing all the different ways that it

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Speaker 2: really fits their comedic styling.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: Well for starters, Amy Sidaris has of course obviously a

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Speaker 2: knack for playing you can really go broad with the

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Speaker 2: portrayal of characters that I don't know if she's ever

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Speaker 2: played a monster before, but she's playing a lot of

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Speaker 2: grotesque or at least mildly grotesque characters before, so I

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Speaker 2: really want to see what she's like in full monster mode.

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Speaker 2: But then also there are a lot of great moments

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Speaker 2: on at home with Amy Sidaris while she's kind of

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Speaker 2: playing up this at least mildly toxic or messy boss character,

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Speaker 2: which I think is also that also really would there's

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Speaker 2: a lot to play with in this scenario, because that's

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Speaker 2: there to a certain extent in the original script here.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm presuming that they are going to

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Speaker 2: position this as a comedy, though who knows, they could

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Speaker 2: go entirely different direction. But I assume it's going to

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Speaker 2: be a comedy, and I think the bones there are

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Speaker 2: there for some tremendous comedic styling.

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Speaker 3: I think there is great comedy potential, especially in letting

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Speaker 3: the main character be less tragic and sympathetic and more buffoonish,

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Speaker 3: and like, in this movie you really feel bad for

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Speaker 3: Janis Starlin. But yeah, I can imagine now her being

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Speaker 3: like a toxic CEO who's doing the same kinds of

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Speaker 3: things that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I suspect that might be where they're

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Speaker 2: going to lean into and anyway, fingers crossed that this

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Speaker 2: one comes together. I should also point out that I'm

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Speaker 2: not the only or the first person to mention this,

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Speaker 2: but twenty twenty four is the Substance also strikes a

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Speaker 2: similar note, deals with some similar themes of oh, struggles

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Speaker 2: between you know, regarding aging, you know, the female body,

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Speaker 2: and so forth. And so I think there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of films that you can lump into this kind

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Speaker 2: of like larger sub genre. You can also throw in

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Speaker 2: films like nineteen sixties of the Leech Woman, for example,

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Speaker 2: as being a great example of this.

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Speaker 3: Also about a rejuvenation serum or science fiction treatment for

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Speaker 3: regaining lost youth and lost beauty that results in disaster. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: tons of stories like this. Actually, I was trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out, like how far back does this go, because

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Speaker 3: I was thinking many other examples. I was even thinking,

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Speaker 3: isn't there a version. I know there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of different stories of this character, but the Batman villain

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Speaker 3: Clay Face I was remembering from when I was a kid.

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Speaker 3: I think there's one version of that character who's like

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Speaker 3: an actor who has lost his looks in some way

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Speaker 3: and he takes an experimental treatment in order to get

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Speaker 3: his face back, to get his looks back, but it

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Speaker 3: turns out that he causes more problems than it solved.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that was I never read the comics,

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Speaker 2: the Batman comics, but that storyline was done fantastically well

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Speaker 2: in the old Batman animated series.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm thinking of. I was watching the Batman

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Speaker 3: animated series on TV when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so good, but so An early version of the Wasp

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Speaker 3: Woman type tragic rejuvenation storyline can actually be found in

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Speaker 3: the American author Nathaniel Hawthorn's eighteen thirty seven short story

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Speaker 3: Doctor Heidegger's Experiment. Have you ever read this?

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Speaker 2: Oh? No, I don't know. The story.

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Speaker 3: So it goes like this. Four aging friends are invited

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Speaker 3: to the home of an old scientist named doctor Heidegger,

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Speaker 3: and their host informs them that he has secured quantities

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Speaker 3: of miracle water from the Fountain of Youth, which can

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Speaker 3: restore those in old age to the prime of their lives,

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Speaker 3: and he demonstrates on a withered rose restoring it to

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Speaker 3: full bloom, and then the guests drink the water and

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Speaker 3: they discover it does work. They are given back their

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Speaker 3: youth and their vigor. But there's a twist. People always think,

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Speaker 3: if I could go back and live my life again

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Speaker 3: with the wisdom that I have now. People even talk

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Speaker 3: about that in The Wasp Woman. They say the same things,

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Speaker 3: if I could go back and do it over again,

389
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Speaker 3: now I would know now, I would know what to do.

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Speaker 3: But Heidegger's friends in this story, as soon as they

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Speaker 3: are once again young in the flesh, they start to

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Speaker 3: behave in the same old, foolish ways that they once did,

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Speaker 3: and they act out the same sins and character flaws

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Speaker 3: that they each displayed when they were originally young. So

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Speaker 3: in the story there are also hints. For example, there's

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Speaker 3: like a glimpse in a mirror where the characters actually

397
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Speaker 3: still look old. There are hints that somehow the restoration

398
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Speaker 3: of youth is some kind of illusion, But they eventually

399
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Speaker 3: end up accidentally smashing the jar of miracle water, and

400
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Speaker 3: then doctor Heideger declares that even if he could drink it,

401
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Speaker 3: he wouldn't after seeing what had happened to them. So

402
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Speaker 3: a little bit different here because there's no transformation into

403
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Speaker 3: a monster. It's not like the substance or the wasp woman,

404
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Speaker 3: where you take it and it gives you the youth back,

405
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Speaker 3: but you also have, you know, some kind of monstrous

406
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Speaker 3: altered form. There is still a grim twist, and I

407
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Speaker 3: like the suggestion that maybe the wisdom that comes with

408
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Speaker 3: old age is not actually wisdom that you could take

409
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Speaker 3: with you back into a young and beautiful body. Maybe

410
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Speaker 3: some of the things that we think of as wisdom

411
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Speaker 3: and experience and temperance, the ideas of wisdom and you know,

412
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Speaker 3: cognitive qualities we associate with the loss of youth and vigor,

413
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Speaker 3: maybe some of those things actually depend on on the

414
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Speaker 3: aging and enfeeblement of the body. So it's not just

415
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Speaker 3: a cruel irony of I wish I knew then what

416
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Speaker 3: I know now. It's like, what if if you could

417
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Speaker 3: be young and strong and beautiful like you were, then

418
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Speaker 3: you would actually stop knowing what you know now. I'm

419
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Speaker 3: not sure I agree with that, but I think that's

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Speaker 3: a very interesting idea.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, one of the things that I really liked

422
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Speaker 2: about The Substance is this idea about there being this

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Speaker 2: kind of this connection between your past self and your

424
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Speaker 2: current self, like your young self and your old self,

425
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Speaker 2: and how they have to be in balance with each other,

426
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Speaker 2: and how all the horror in this particular movie the

427
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Speaker 2: Substance occurs out of imbalance between the two, and about

428
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Speaker 2: that these two forces being not connected but in opposition

429
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Speaker 2: to each other. Yeah, so I really liked overall, I

430
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Speaker 2: like The Substance a lot. I keep having conversations with

431
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Speaker 2: people about whether the movie should have ended before all

432
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Speaker 2: the really extreme body heart happened. I don't know. I mean,

433
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: I love body hearror sometimes, but I've heard some I've

434
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: heard some strong arguments on both sides regarding that film.

435
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I also don't know exactly what I

436
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: think about the climax. I guess I had mixed feelings

437
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 3: about it, But overall, I really liked that movie. And

438
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 3: speaking of you know, another movie that has this kind

439
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 3: of quality of rejuvenation with a monstrous twist is a

440
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 3: movie many people compared the substance too, which is death

441
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 3: becomes her.

442
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a good one. I've long time seen.

443
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: That one, but more of a comedy, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: And now a musical. I believe there's some Broadway treatment

445
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: of it. I'm not sure if it's Broadway or off Broadway,

446
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: but it exists.

447
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, very very common type of story we're dealing

448
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: with here, and something that was by no means knew

449
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: when The Wasp Woman was written. You know, there have

450
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 3: been many versions of this before and many after. It's

451
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: a type of story we do not get tired of,

452
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: probably just because it's the sort of thing that is

453
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: truly on people's minds all the time. I mean we always,

454
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: I'm sure probably more than half of people pretty frequently

455
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: find themselves, you know, after a certain age at least

456
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: thinking like, man, if only I could be younger again,

457
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: I could do I would do things differently.

458
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're not thinking of it already, don't worry.

459
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: Somebody will advertise a product to you that will make

460
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: you think that at.

461
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: Least you can pretend to be young again.

462
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

463
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: All right, some quick stats about this movie and past

464
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: weird house cinema selections. Just because I always find this fun.

465
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: This is our twenty fourth film from the nineteen fifties.

466
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: It is our sixth film directed by Roger Korman, seventh

467
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: if you count any direction he did on nineteen eighty's

468
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: Battle Beyond the Stars, and overall it is our two

469
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: hundred and forty third film selection for Weird House Cinema.

470
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: Were we just talking about feeling old?

471
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 2: Just think of how many movies there there we haven't watched.

472
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: So it's just just a drop in the pond here.

473
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: Well, no, actually, I'm like Captain Kirk at the end

474
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: of Wrath of Kahan, I feel young.

475
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, elevator pitch for this one. I did

476
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: come up with one that I liked. It's are you

477
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: over positive? You want to be young again? Ah? Yes?

478
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: Positive?

479
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: Nice? So yeah, I don't know if you have any okay, uncle? Yeah?

480
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: All right? Well, if you would like to watch The

481
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: Wasp Woman before proceeding, this is an easy one to find.

482
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: I ran across multiple streams of it. Shout Factory put

483
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: out a blu ray of the film. I streamed it

484
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: through the shout Factory channel on one of the apps,

485
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: but I did see multiple versions. The original shot in

486
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 2: black and white. There is a colorized version out there also,

487
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: as we'll be discussing. There's the shorter theatrical cut, and

488
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: then there's the slightly longer cut that was made for television,

489
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: and that has some additional scenes that were directed by

490
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Jack Hill, who we haven't really talked about in the

491
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: show before. He's the guy who directed Spider Baby, that's

492
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: probably the most well known film. But the director of

493
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: this film is of course Roger Corman, director and producer

494
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: of nineteen twenty six through twenty twenty four. We've covered

495
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: the King of Coult plenty of times before, so let's

496
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: just situate this particular film within his filmography. This one

497
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: came out in fifty nine. Depending on how you're counting

498
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: his pictures, this would be I think roughly Corman's twenty

499
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 2: second directorial credit.

500
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: Was it the year nineteen fifty seven that we had

501
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: previously called his Annis Mirabolos, that's the one where he

502
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: did like eight movies and points.

503
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, and again this is all this is the

504
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: young years, this early Corman. Yeah, the previous the year

505
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: prior to this film coming out, fifty eight, he did

506
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: four pictures, He directed four pictures. Wore The Satellites, Machine Gun,

507
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: Kelly Teenage cave Man, and She Gods of Shark Reef.

508
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: In fifty nine, The Wasp Woman was one of three

509
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: that he did sandwich between the crime drama I Mobster

510
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: and the horror comedy Bucket of Blood, previously covered on

511
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema. The following year, nineteen sixty would see

512
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: the release of Corman's Ski Troop Attack, Little Shop of Hers,

513
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: House of Usher previously covered on Weird House Cinema, and

514
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: Last Woman on Earth.

515
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: Wow, only one year between Wasp Woman and House of Usher.

516
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 3: That's kind of hard to believe it because House of

517
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: Usher really does feel like a different era.

518
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I guess that's the thing, is,

519
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: like we're about to transition into a new decade of

520
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: film and into kind of a new era of Roger

521
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: Corman's filmography. So Roger and his brother Jean founded the

522
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: production and distribution company The Film Group in fifty nine,

523
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: and Wasp Woman was Corman's first directorial effort for that.

524
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: This company ran until I think around nineteen sixty eight,

525
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: but generally ran out of steam when Jeane left for

526
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: twentieth Century Fox in sixty three. Yeah, let's say we

527
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: should mention there is a director's cameo that I missed

528
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: when I actually watched the film. But if he missed

529
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: it too, didn't see it. Yeah Corman shows up as

530
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: a doctor at the hospital. But yeah, if I watch

531
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: it again, I'll look out for it.

532
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: So I wanted to add some notes from a book

533
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: entry I was reading on Wasp Woman from a book

534
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 3: by Brian Sin called Twice the Thrills, Twice the Chills

535
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: Horror and science fiction double Features nineteen fifty five to

536
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy four. This book was published by McFarlane twenty nineteen.

537
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: Like a lot of the Corman movies from this era,

538
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: the Wasp Woman played as part of a double feature,

539
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: in this case with a movie called Beast from Haunted Cave,

540
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: a film that was produced by sort of belonged to

541
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: Roger Corman's brother Jean. This one was about a bunch

542
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: of bank robbers who are attacked by a giant spider

543
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: like thing kind of a she lob in a cave

544
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: in South Dakota. Sounds interesting. I haven't seen this one,

545
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: but this one, actually, I should note, was written by

546
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: Charles B. Griffith, who wrote a lot of the great

547
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: Corman scripts from this era wrote like, you know, an

548
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: attack of the crab monsters and not of this earth

549
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: and stuff, And some people say that this is a

550
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: better written film than some of the other Corman movies

551
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: from this era.

552
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: I love the poster for this one. The poster is

553
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: almost scandalous, with this big squid spider monster and a lady.

554
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: This is you know, like, this is not a photo,

555
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: it's art of a lady with her shirt almost off,

556
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: and then it says screaming young girl sucked into a

557
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: labyrinth of horror by a blood starve ghoul from hell.

558
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: Could this film possibly deliver on all of that?

559
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 3: No, in fact, I've read it conspicuously does not. It

560
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: is not what is advertised. And the monster in the

561
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: movie does not really look like the monster on the poster. Instead,

562
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: it's just sort of a mass covered in cobwebs.

563
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: Okay, loo's pretty creepy in the image you provided here,

564
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's not the monster from that scandalous poster.

565
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. But so context on what was happening in the

566
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: Corman business world at this time, you mentioned the founding

567
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 3: of this new distribution group. So in nineteen fifty nine,

568
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Roger Corman and his brother Jean, they founded their own

569
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: distribution company called Film Group. I think they were up.

570
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: They were unhappy with some of their financial relationships with

571
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: other distributors like American International Pictures. And that book by

572
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: Brian Sen that I mentioned quotes an interview with Gene

573
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: Corman where he talks about the logic behind this move.

574
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: Gene says, quote, Roger and I made so many films

575
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: and the distributor's religion. If they stayed in business, there

576
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: was always a question of creative bookkeeping. If they didn't

577
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: stay in business, there was the problem of trying to

578
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: find out where the bank accounts were. Necessity was the

579
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: mother of invention. We decided, if we were unhappy with

580
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: the distributors that it was a logical thing. If we

581
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: had the product, why not have the distribution. Then we

582
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: would know where the money was because we would be

583
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: the bookkeepers. So we did this. At that time, I

584
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: knew a lot of the heads of theater chains, so

585
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: I could pick up a telephone book. So the Coorman

586
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: machine is becoming ever more powerful. It's like they've been

587
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 3: making the movies and now they're like, Okay, we know

588
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: who these theater owners are, we can contact them directly,

589
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 3: we can form the distribution network. So early films distributed

590
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,959
Speaker 3: by their new company were a double feature of movies

591
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 3: in the juvenile delinquent genre called High School Big Shot

592
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 3: and t Bird Gang.

593
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: I think I've seen High School Shot.

594
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: Okay, I haven't seen either one. Is it delinquent? Is

595
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: it positively delinquent? Yeah? Then there were some horror double features.

596
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: We had Last Women on Earth and Little Shop of Horrors.

597
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: Those are Corman directed movies. Roger directed movies The Devil's

598
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: Partner and Treacher from the Haunted Sea, and then also

599
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: The Wasp Woman and Beast from Haunted Cave. So we

600
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 3: get this venomous double bill distributed by the filmmakers themselves,

601
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 3: one directed by Roger and the other directed by a

602
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: guy named Monty Hellman but produced by Gene all.

603
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Right, all right, so double feature here? Did The Wasp

604
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: Woman air first? That was the first one.

605
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't actually know, I don't recall.

606
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sometimes we've discussed these double hitters. We'll to

607
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: switch them around for one reason or the other. But yeah,

608
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: all right. The screenplay for this film for The Wasp

609
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: Woman was written by Leo Gordon, who lived nineteen twenty

610
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: two through two thousand American character actor and screenwriter who

611
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: in front of the camera often played burly, tough guys

612
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: and appeared in such films as Sixty Threes, The Haunted Palace.

613
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: His writing credits include the Corman film's Attack of the

614
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: Giant Leeches from fifty nine, Tower of London from sixty two,

615
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: and The Terror from sixty three.

616
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: My understanding is Leo Gordon in a lot of cowboy movies.

617
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was looking through his filmography and

618
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: there's a lot of cowboy stuff in there, a lot

619
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: of stuff that is, you know, until we get a

620
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: big cowboy resurgence, is you know, maybe a little bit lost,

621
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: all right now. He wrote the screenplay, but it's from

622
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 2: a story by Kinta Zertucci born nineteen thirty one, and

623
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: she worked in various capacities on Corman pictures, including location supervisor,

624
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: background actor, producer's assistant, production secretary, and script supervisor. She

625
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: also served as EP on the non Corman nineteen sixty

626
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: film The Wild Ride, which starred Jack Nicholson. At the

627
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: time of The Wass Woman, she was married to Daniel Holler,

628
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: who also worked as an art director on this film,

629
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: for example, and production designer for Corman, and he would

630
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: go on to direct the notable early Lovecraft film adaptations

631
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: Die Monster, Die in sixty five and The Dunwich Horror

632
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy, which we've previously discussed on.

633
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 3: The show Oh Yeah with Dean Stockwell.

634
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I really love that one. Groovy,

635
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: groovy Lovecrafting horror. Good stuff, all right. Now, getting into

636
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: the cast, we've mentioned already the character Janis Starlin, and

637
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: we've mentioned that she's played by Susan Cappott, who lived

638
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty seven through nineteen eighty six American actress, musician,

639
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: and at one point children's book illustrator, with film credits

640
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: going back to forty seven. So her career saw a

641
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: long stretch of Westerns and Arabian night movies for Universal,

642
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: and then she ends up leaving Universal and Corman is

643
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 2: able to hire for the rock and roll nightclub film

644
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: Carnival Rock in fifty seven. At this point, she appears

645
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: in Let's See Corman's Sorority Girl, The Saga of the

646
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: Viking Women and their Voyage to the Waters of the

647
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: Great Sea Serpent movie with the longest title I think

648
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 2: of any of the Corman films that from the same year.

649
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 3: It feels like a marketing experiment. Yes, like we're trying,

650
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: well people go to a movie because it as a

651
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: longer title.

652
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like the Outrageous what is the incredibly

653
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: strange Creatures stopped living and became mixed up zombies exactly. Yeah,

654
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: I remember it because it's long.

655
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh, that movie's got some of the best mystery science

656
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 3: theater riffs.

657
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: It was a good riff of it.

658
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: But knife delivery.

659
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: Did you say Reagan's in it?

660
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: No, Ray Dennis decklo Oh, Ray, I'm sorry, Ray Dennis, Ray,

661
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: Dennis Reagan is it?

662
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I don't know, maybe he

663
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: isn't it.

664
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: That would be funny. Yeah, shortly before his presidency.

665
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see. Anyway, back to Susan Cabot. She was

666
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: in Machine Gun Kelly in fifty eight alongside Charles Bronson,

667
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: and she did some westerns during her Corman years, but

668
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: Wass was her last film for Corman, and it's sometimes

669
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: cited as her final film role after fifty nine, and

670
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: she only ever acted I think one more time for

671
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: screen or TV in the nineteen seventy TV series Brackens World.

672
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 2: She also apparently continued to do a little off Broadway

673
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: theater during the nineteen sixties.

674
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: I had read clearly that it was her last film role.

675
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: Is there another movie you were thinking of?

676
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: Or Well, it just depends on how you're ranking them

677
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: and listing them. For instance, on IMDb, the nineteen fifty

678
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: nine movie Surrender Hell is listed after Wasp Woman. So

679
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: I say, sometimes it depends on how you're exactly stacking them.

680
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, yeah, but it is commonly, like in her biographies,

681
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: people often cite Wasp Woman as her last film appearance.

682
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean certainly the last film that she was

683
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: in that had any kind of sticking power. Yeah, So

684
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 2: I would I have to say, I think she's great

685
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: in this. I think she delivers, really delivers on the

686
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: key central performance that the whole picture depends on, Like

687
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: if this if the actor playing this role doesn't bring it,

688
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: and you know, nothing else really count. And again, she's

689
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: not a clearcut villain. This film doesn't really have a

690
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: villain typical villain character. She's not depicted early on, certainly

691
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: as any kind of like ruthless CEO or Anything's just

692
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: she just unwittingly crosses a line that takes her on

693
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: this increasingly dark and destructive path, and I think Cabot

694
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: plays that really well.

695
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, her behavior becomes sort of unhinged later in the film,

696
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: but that is shown as being out of desperation, not

697
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: because there's like something wrong with her personality or character.

698
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, now it is interesting. You have some great notes

699
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 2: in her outline about this. Certainly her transformation into monster

700
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: is not great, but she also has to do some

701
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: other sorts of transformations because she's initially depicted as being

702
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 2: a woman in her like late thirties or around forty

703
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: early forty somewhere in there. But then she is going

704
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: to transform into a woman in her twenties, and she

705
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: was I believe thirty two years old at the time

706
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: of this movie's filming.

707
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 3: That's right. So yeah, so she's playing a character who's

708
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 3: supposed to look at various times ten years older or

709
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 3: ten years younger than the actress actually was. So they

710
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: Cabot used a number of tactics. I think some of

711
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: it she came up with herself to try to accomplish this,

712
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: Like in the earlier scenes in the movie where she's

713
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: supposed to look older. One thing, one thing that I

714
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: appreciate about it is they did use some makeup, but

715
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 3: not a lot, so it's not like they're doing obvious, overwhelming,

716
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 3: make me look older make up, like fake wrinkles or anything.

717
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 3: We don't have any of that. There are some kind

718
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 3: of dark circles under her eyes, just making her look weary.

719
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: There's also the classic I take my classes off, and

720
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: yes there are.

721
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: In the early film, she wears these odd rectangular glasses

722
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: that just I don't know if they make her look older.

723
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 3: They just make her look very strange.

724
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean, I guess it was kind of

725
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: a it's just a way to differentiate.

726
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she also it was mentioned in one of

727
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: the books that I was reading that she styled her

728
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: hair in a way that she thought would read as older.

729
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 3: Like in the early scenes, she's got a very tight,

730
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: very tight, almost puritan looking haircut or not haircut hair

731
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: style where it's very like pinned up tightly, and she

732
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 3: wore high collars thinking that would make her look older.

733
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: It does kind of at least make her look more

734
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: old fashioned. But then once she takes the wasp juice,

735
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: she lets her hair down a little bit. It's still up,

736
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 3: but not as tight as it was, and she dresses

737
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 3: very differently, takes the glasses off, takes off the tired

738
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: looking makeup, but it's also very much there in the performance.

739
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: Cabot says that in the scenes where she's supposed to

740
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: look older, she would move more slowly and deliberately, and

741
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: then after she takes the wasp juice, she starts to

742
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 3: move more quickly and appears full of joy.

743
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so I really love this. I just again,

744
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: I kind of wish they'd taken this approach to the

745
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: monster transformation as well. Done something that was made be

746
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: a little bit more minimal and lean more heavily on

747
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: her performance and her you know, her facial expression, maybe

748
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: with some sort of minimal like Google makeup or something.

749
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: You know.

750
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: I feel like the dynamic is between us is more

751
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 3: often the other way. I feel kind of soft on

752
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 3: this monster design. It's not like it's very elaborate. It

753
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: is basically just some it's some weird eyes and some

754
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: weird teeth, but at least in the black and white,

755
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: I can see it not working very well in color,

756
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: and I didn't try to watch the colorized version of

757
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: this movie, But in the original black and white, I

758
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 3: kind of appreciated the Wasp design. It's one of those

759
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: that works kind of well in the dark, you know.

760
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: It's, yeah, they realized they knew what they had here

761
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: or what they didn't have, and so they Yeah, they

762
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: do a pretty good job for most of the film

763
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 2: when the monster's on screen, just showing very little of

764
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: it and making sure the light the lighting is giving

765
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: it as much assistance as possible.

766
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: But there is some of the perform men's aspect in

767
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: the Wasp transformation scenes. Also, like in that book by

768
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: Brianson that I was reading, it quotes an interview with

769
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: Cabot where she's explaining her performance in the monster scenes,

770
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 3: and she talks about how she had to think through

771
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 3: this because she's like, I'm five foot two, and I

772
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: have to be attacking people who are like more than

773
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: a foot taller than me in a convincing way. And

774
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 3: so she says, quote, the only way I felt I

775
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 3: could convincingly down a bigger person was through swiftness, by

776
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: coming at them fast, like a bolt of lightning and

777
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: staying right on target. It worked, And I think she's

778
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: sort of right. I've read some contemporary reviews of the

779
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: film that say, it looks comical when she is attacking

780
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 3: the people who are bigger than her. But I don't

781
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: know that it always looks comical.

782
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: I like, I didn't really get that at all. Yeah,

783
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: I think maybe the speed worked essentially the Peter Lourie approach.

784
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: I think back to the face behind the mask. He

785
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 2: has to like rough up a dude that's like feels

786
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: like three feet taller than him. And I was like,

787
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 2: how's he going to pull this off? How's he going

788
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: to make this look believable? And he like basically like

789
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: speed and viciousness, and you buy it.

790
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she, of course in these scenes, she she

791
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: that's her. That's Susan Cabot in the Wasp makeup, doing

792
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 3: the attacks and to quote the Brian sin Book quote,

793
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 3: doing all of her stunts quote including spitting out chocolate

794
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: syrup upon the necks of her victims as she pretended

795
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: to bite them. Yes, I love that. So they like,

796
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: I guess, squirt the chocolate syrup in the mouth before

797
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 3: the take and she runs in nibble nibble classic the book.

798
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 3: Also that Brian sin Book quotes a publicity article about

799
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: Wasp Woman at the time of its release, which begins

800
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 3: with the words beautiful and noted. Susan Cabot, What does

801
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 3: that mean? Noted?

802
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 2: It seems like a word's missing there.

803
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 3: Noted. You know, like you've heard of her. Maybe that's

804
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 3: what it means. Beautiful and noted. Susan Cabot, frequently seen

805
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 3: in the company of King Hussein in Hollywood and New York,

806
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: is one of the most popular and lovely of the

807
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 3: young leading women. Formerly under contract to Universal International, where

808
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 3: she played opposite such stars as Rock Hudson, Jeff Chandler,

809
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 3: Tony Curtis, and Joel McCrae, Susan is making her debut

810
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 3: in the independent production as star of The Wasp Woman,

811
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: so at least a good bit of the film's marketing

812
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: was very Susan Cabot forward. It's not just this is

813
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 3: a killer insect movie. It's this is a Susan Cabot movie,

814
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 3: and I think there's some wasp stuff in there somewhere.

815
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 3: As you said earlier, this is usually credited as her

816
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 3: final film. When asked later about, you know, her retirement

817
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: from acting after having done a bunch of movies with

818
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: Roger Corman. At this point, I mean she again, she

819
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: was in War of the Satellites and the Viking Women

820
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: in the Sea Serpent movie and all that. She replied,

821
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: I mean, how many wasp a wasp woman's.

822
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: Can you do? I mean, clearly at least two in counting. Yeah,

823
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: that's what the answer seems to be. So yeah, I

824
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: absolutely agree. This is very much her picture. But we

825
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: have some other interesting actors in the show as well,

826
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: playing some necessary side characters that are a lot of fun.

827
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: So starting with Billy Lane. The character Billy Lane here

828
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: this is a member of her team. All the most

829
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: of the major characters are people who worn't for her corporation,

830
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: and so Billy is played by Anthony Eisley, who lived

831
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five through two thousand and three. Actor of stage, screen,

832
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: and TV, who was a regular on the TV series

833
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: Hawaiian I from fifty nine through sixty two and appeared

834
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: in Samuel Fuller's The Naked Kiss in sixty four. But

835
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: he also has just a lot of low budget genre

836
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: cinema titles in his filmography, like The Mighty Gorga, The

837
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: Witch Maker, The Mummy, and the Curse of the Jackals.

838
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: All these were like sixty nine then Al Adams Adamson's

839
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 2: Dracula Versus Frankenstein in seventy one and Monstroyd in nineteen eighty.

840
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: Outside of monster movies and low budget sci fi fair

841
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: he was also in the nineteen sixty six Elvis picture

842
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: Frankie and Johnny.

843
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: You didn't even mention the Navy versus the Night Monsters,

844
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: the one where the Navy has to fight killer trees.

845
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, yeah, sign me up.

846
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 3: So I was reading about Eisley's performance in The Wasp

847
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 3: Woman in a different book than the one. I was

848
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 3: just talking about a book by the horror historian Tom Weaver,

849
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: who has come up on the Ond House a lot.

850
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 3: He does a lot of great interviews with actors from

851
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 3: old B movies and stuff. This book is called Return

852
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 3: of the B Science Fiction and Horror Heroes, the mutant

853
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: melding of two volumes of classic interviews. This book came

854
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: out in two thousand and so. This book has an

855
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 3: extensive interview with Anthony Eisley about being in a lot

856
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: of these movies. But one thing that's talked about in

857
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 3: this book is Isley says he ended up taking drama

858
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: courses in college, not because he really loved the stage

859
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: or had aspirations to be a great actor, but because

860
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: he thought they would be easy, as he's like, that's

861
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 3: how I can get through college. But he stuck with it,

862
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: and then sometime later he was the star of hawaiian

863
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 3: I TV's hawaiian I. Some reviews at the star I

864
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 3: actually had different reactions to this character on my two viewings.

865
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 3: I found myself really disliking this character on first viewing

866
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: and then being a little softer on him second viewing.

867
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 3: But some reviews at the time singled out Anthony Eisley

868
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 3: and his character in The Wasp Woman for praise, saying like, now,

869
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: this is a really likable leading man. And I did

870
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 3: not exactly understand this because he's not exactly a leading man.

871
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: He's kind of a secondary character, though he fills the role.

872
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 3: He's like the main man in the movie that does

873
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 3: anything good. And this is no offense to Eisley as

874
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 3: an actor, but I found the character to be a

875
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 3: little bit skeazy and grading. But I thought maybe he

876
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: was support sort of supposed to be, Like, I don't

877
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: think you're supposed to hate him, and he's certainly not

878
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: positioned as a villain. But he just reads as a

879
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 3: kind of undependable. Ally to who I thought was actually

880
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 3: the most sympathetic character, the secretary Mary played by Barbara Morris.

881
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: Billy Lane comes off as like he's basically a good guy,

882
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: but he's a libidinous and sort of insincere business creature.

883
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

884
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: And when when he is needed most he comes through,

885
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 3: but his attempts to help are sometimes kind of half hearted.

886
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. And when we're first introduced to him, as we'll discuss,

887
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: I felt I didn't know how he was exactly being positioned.

888
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 2: I was like, is this guy? Is this guy being

889
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: a creep? Is he is he like trying doing a

890
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: power play here in the meeting? Like what's going on? Yeah?

891
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, I agree, I didn't. I did feel like

892
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: he was the likable heart of the movie, even if

893
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: he is the character that is most like a leading

894
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: man and an action oriented leading man character.

895
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, anyway, more from this interview with Tom Weaver

896
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 3: about working with Roger Corman on this movie, Isley says, quote,

897
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: this reveals some lack of depth in me, I suppose,

898
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 3: But I thought it was fun, a hell of a

899
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: lot of fun because he worked like a house of

900
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: fire and I like to work fast on the stage.

901
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 3: I had spent eight years playing four parts. I'd had

902
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 3: a great deal of luck in being in hit plays

903
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: that consumed a lot of time. But after that period

904
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 3: was over, I found it much more enjoyable to learn something,

905
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 3: do it, forget it, and go on. So he says

906
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 3: he really enjoyed like whipping through this picture with Corman

907
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: at this incredible rate, and he talks about crazy filmmaking

908
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 3: tricks that Corman used on set, stuff that Eisley had

909
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: never seen before in like his television work or on

910
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 3: other movies. One example is that Corman would you'd we

911
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: have a bunch of different scenes in the movie that

912
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: were not consecutive to each other, but they would be

913
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: shot in the same location, and Corman would like set

914
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 3: up a camera angle on that location, and then they

915
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 3: do every scene in the movie that used that location

916
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: all in a row, and have the actors changing costumes

917
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 3: in between the takes. So it's like here's this scene, okay,

918
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 3: change okay, now we're shooting the other one and all that.

919
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: Then set up another camera angle. Okay, now we're going

920
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: to do every scene in the movie that happens in

921
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 3: this room all back to back.

922
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like in our episode on the Last

923
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: Temptation of Christ where we mentioned Martin Scorsese like pointing

924
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 2: out the Corman way of filming being highly useful when

925
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 2: you're dealing with budgetary constraints or other limitations on a production.

926
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: So Isley says that his memory of working with Susan

927
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 3: Cabot was that he thought she was not very happy

928
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: about the movie and that she seemed irritated with Corman

929
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: during I don't know. I mean, she'd made a bunch

930
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: of movies with him at this point. Maybe there's only

931
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 3: so much Roger you can take. But at the same time,

932
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: Cabot had positive things to say about working on this

933
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: movie after the fact, like the other interview I was

934
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: talking about, and she says she, you know, sort of

935
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 3: says she was proud of the movie and enjoyed working

936
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: on it. So I don't know. But also Eisley says

937
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 3: he was personally very gung ho on set, and he's

938
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: trying to be game for everything, you know, yes, ending

939
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 3: with Roger and offering to do semi dangerous, semi stunts,

940
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 3: including one story where he's he's supposed to break through

941
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: glass to get through a door to get into a room.

942
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: You might remember this at the very toward the end

943
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 3: of the movie. Yes, Yeah, they didn't have a budget

944
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: for candy glass, so there was real glass there and

945
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 3: he's like, what the hell, I'll do it, So he

946
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 3: kicked through actual glass. But then after they shot that scene,

947
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 3: they had to shoot more scenes in that room with

948
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 3: the door there, and the glass was broken and they

949
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: couldn't afford to or didn't have time or money to

950
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 3: get it fixed, so they just put paper over the

951
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: part of the door where the glass was. And he

952
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: talks about how when people would open and close the

953
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: door and the scenes, you can see the glass which

954
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: is actually just paper like ballooning back and forth. Yeah,

955
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: he compares it to the jib on a sailboat.

956
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad nobody was hurt, because I've heard horror

957
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: stories about people like punching through or kicking through glass,

958
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 2: or they hit the wrong glass instead of getting the

959
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: gimmick glass, they hit real glass and they're cut to ribbons,

960
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: or they break something. Lady Terminator's example of that where

961
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 2: you know their star was sidelined for a while because

962
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: they did a stunt with real glass.

963
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: I want to say to filmmakers out there who may

964
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 3: be listening, this story is fun. But I don't say

965
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 3: this to glamorize the style of filmmaking where you know,

966
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: you have actors doing stuff like this. You know, I

967
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 3: appreciate the zeal to make a movie, but it's not

968
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 3: worth it. I mean, there's no reason people need to

969
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 3: get injured on set just to make a shot work like.

970
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: You can figure out a way to do it without people,

971
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: you know, getting hurt.

972
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: That's what the CGI is for. All right, Let's move

973
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 2: on to some of the other cast members we mentioned.

974
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: Mary already played by Barbara Morris. She lived nineteen thirty

975
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: two through nineteen seventy five. She appeared in several Corman films,

976
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 2: beginning in fifty seven with a trio that included Rock

977
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 2: All Night. She's also in fifty eight Teenage Caveman Finfty

978
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: nine Bucket of Blood, in which she plays Carla, the

979
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: only beat nick who's nice to Dick Miller's character, who

980
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 2: of course turns out to be a murder. It's a comedy.

981
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: It's super fun if anyone out there hasn't seen it.

982
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: Later on, she'd appear in Corman's nineteen sixty seven LSD

983
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 2: movie The Trip and nineteen seventies The Dunwich are one

984
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 2: of her final roles.

985
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 3: I found her character very likable here. I think if

986
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 3: this movie were made today, I think most filmmakers would

987
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 3: want to make this character more assertive. She really does

988
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 3: get just kind of moved around like a game piece

989
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 3: by the mostly male bosses, including her boyfriend Billy Lane.

990
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 3: But Barbara Morris brings just a very sympathetic quality to

991
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: the character. She's hard not to like. In a lot

992
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 3: of scenes. She uses this very slowly developing hesitant smile

993
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 3: that shows off nervousness and friendliness at the same time

994
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: as just a very endearing trade and you do not

995
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 3: want the Wasp woman to drink her blood.

996
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: Also a great scream. She really gets to build out

997
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: a nice monster scream in this film. Yeah, all right.

998
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: There's an older silver hair gentleman that's a member of

999
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: her corporate inner circle named Arthur Cooper, and he's played

1000
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: by William Rorik, who lived nineteen twelve through nineteen ninety five,

1001
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: primarily as stage actor appearing on Broadway, but here. In

1002
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety one Daytime Emmy nomination for his work

1003
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,280
Speaker 2: on Guiding Light. He hit a very long TV career

1004
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 2: and he pops up in such films as seventy three

1005
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: Is the Day of the Dolphin and seventy six As

1006
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: God Told Me To But oh, and he was also

1007
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: in Corman's Not of This Earth fifty seven, and he's

1008
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: come up on the show before just in passing because

1009
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 2: he was longtime partners with Thomas Coley, who was in

1010
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: nineteen forties Doctor Cyclops. Oh, a movie that is name

1011
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: dropped in this movie.

1012
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 3: Yes mentioned in the film that in a way, kind

1013
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: of the soul of this movie is contained in the

1014
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 3: scenes of the office secretaries like trash talking each other

1015
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: or trash talking their boyfriends, which those scenes can be

1016
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 3: pretty fun. And one of them is this character named

1017
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: Marie and talking about how you know, she can't stand

1018
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: her boyfriend, her husband, Irving, who just wants to watch

1019
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 3: TV all the time, And she gets a phone call

1020
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 3: from Irving and tells him to drop dead. The other

1021
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 3: secretary is like, what happened? What did he say? And

1022
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 3: she says, he told me that Doctor Cyclops is on

1023
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 3: TV again tonight, Channel nine. He's seen it three times.

1024
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, I love all those things with the secretaries

1025
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: and just in general, like I says, it's the mad

1026
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 2: Men era, and you have this mad Men office space

1027
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: here in this Golden age New York, and yeah, I

1028
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 2: found it rather charming. And this particular actor playing Arthur,

1029
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: I think he charmed up, classed up, and he's scene

1030
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 2: he's in very much.

1031
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 3: I do think it's kind of weird reading reviews that

1032
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 3: mentioned the Billy Laine character as likable, because I feel

1033
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 3: like Arthur is a lot more likable.

1034
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he tries to save the day.

1035
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 2: He's actively trying to do right by our main character.

1036
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: She's making suspicious choices for the business. Yeah, and of

1037
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: course he pays a price for that. Yeah, all right.

1038
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: We mention Eric Zinthrop already. This is our zinthorpe zen

1039
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: Throp sin zen Throp. He's played by Michael Mark lived

1040
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty six through nineteen seventy five. Bell, Russian born actor,

1041
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: often appearing in small roles from I Believe like nineteen

1042
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: twenty eight through nineteen sixty nine. I mean he pops

1043
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: up at least in small background roles in the likes

1044
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 2: of thirty one's Frankenstein, thirty five's Mad Love Son of Frankenstein.

1045
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: The Mummy's hand goes to Frankenstein House of Frankenstein. Fifty

1046
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 2: eighth Attack of the Puppet People, which we've talked about

1047
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: on the show, and fifty nine's Return of the Fly.

1048
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 3: Is he the mad Scientist and Attack of the Puppet People?

1049
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: Who? You know? That is a good question.

1050
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 3: He might be. That sounds familiar. I was wondering where

1051
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: i'd heard his voice before giving these mad science kind

1052
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 3: of lectures. Sorry, we just had to look up who

1053
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 3: Michael Mark was an Attack of the Puppet People, because

1054
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: I thought maybe he had been the villain like the

1055
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 3: mad scientists in it, But no, he played that character's

1056
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 3: mentor or friend who like visits the laboratory. And this

1057
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 3: creates problems of the I think that the mad scientist

1058
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 3: having to try to hide his work from this guy.

1059
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, this in this picture though, again

1060
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: it's not really a villain character. He's not really a

1061
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 2: mad scientist. He's he's got this amazing breakthrough. He wants

1062
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 2: to partner with somebody in order to like fully realize

1063
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 2: it and you know, make money off of it, and

1064
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: that's what he's trying to do. So and in fact,

1065
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: when he realizes things are not going as planned and

1066
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: taking a darker turn. You know it severely affects him.

1067
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 2: Let's see just a couple of other folks to miss it.

1068
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: Mentioned in Passing, Frank Gersel shows up in this It

1069
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: plays Less Hellman. He lived nineteen fifteen through nineteen seventy.

1070
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: Other credits include fifty threes, The Neander tall Man, fifty threes,

1071
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: The Magnetic Monster, and fifty nine's The four Skull of

1072
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: Jonathan Drake. Oh, one of our secretary gals is the

1073
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: character Maureen. She's I think the switchboard operator, one of

1074
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: the Brooklyn accent.

1075
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 3: She's the one who's mad at Irving about doctor Cyclops. Yeah.

1076
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. She is played by Lynn Cartwright, who lived nineteen

1077
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: twenty seven through two thousand and four. She previously had

1078
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: a supporting role in fifty eight's Queen of Outer Space,

1079
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 2: which of course starred ja Ja Gabor. Late in her career,

1080
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 2: she played the older version of Gena Davis's character in

1081
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety two film A League of their Own.

1082
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 2: She was also in eighty seven's The Garbage Pail Kids Movie,

1083
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: but she was married to screenwriter Leo Gordon.

1084
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 3: Oh that's funny, so the screenwriter gave her a lot

1085
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 3: of the funniest dialogue.

1086
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, tub that way. Also, I'll mention again just in

1087
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: passing first delivery man, I didn't even really clock him.

1088
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: But it's Frank Wolfe, who lived nineteen twenty eight through

1089
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one. Got his starred in Corman pictures, but

1090
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: then when go on to work a great deal in

1091
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: European f films, particularly spaghetti westerns and thrillers, including seventy

1092
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: one's Death Walks on High Heels and sixty eight's Once

1093
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 2: Upon a Time in the West.

1094
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 3: This is the guy who hits on Maureen. I think

1095
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 3: they're delivering a hospital bed so that the scientist can

1096
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 3: recover in the office. Yes, everybody's dream. If you're horribly injured,

1097
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 3: you just want to be at work while you're recovering. Yeah,

1098
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 3: so you can recover in the office.

1099
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: You're too valuable. Yeah yeah.

1100
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 3: And when they're like delivering the bed, he yeah, he

1101
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 3: makes a pass at Maureen and she I think she

1102
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: also tells him to drop dead if.

1103
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: All right? And then finally, the music is by Fred Katz,

1104
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 2: who with nineteen nineteen through twenty thirteen American cellist and

1105
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 2: composer who is quite successful outside of film and was

1106
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: responsible for the jazzy score for A Bucket of Blood,

1107
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,959
Speaker 2: and the score for The Wasp Woman uses the same

1108
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: music as do I'm to understand something like five of

1109
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: five other Corman films from this era.

1110
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,959
Speaker 3: Okay, uh, yeah, Sometimes the music in the movie feels

1111
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 3: a little random, yeah, but other things are very on point.

1112
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously there's a lot of buzzing sounds in it.

1113
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,919
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but yeah, on the whole, like, the music

1114
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: is exactly what you'd expect from a movie from this era.

1115
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: But it's good. It does its job. Yep.

1116
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 3: Okay, ready to talk about the plot.

1117
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: Let's let's get those bees on the screen.

1118
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So the opening credits, of course play over

1119
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 3: footage of bees, bees buzzing. So this is the movie

1120
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 3: The Wasp Woman. The words appear and it's bees.

1121
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we get a scene that only you saw.

1122
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: I didn't actually see this one, So tell me what

1123
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 2: happens in the extended cut, so.

1124
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 3: I'll summarize pretty quickly. Tell me when we get to

1125
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 3: the part you have seen. So we see an older man,

1126
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 3: doctor's nthrope going out into the country in a bee

1127
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 3: keeper suit to harvest a wasp's nest, which he puts

1128
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 3: inside a locked suitcase and carries back to his lab.

1129
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 3: This is the lab where he conducts his mysterious experiment.

1130
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 3: And then later the boss of the apary shows up

1131
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 3: and he's dressed funny. He's wearing a business suit but

1132
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 3: a mesh mask and a veil over his head, walking

1133
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 3: around among the bee colonies. And there's one guy they

1134
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 3: show in here who's working on the bee colonies without

1135
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 3: any gloves, and that made me think, Oh, I bet

1136
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 3: that guy's not an actor. This is probably just an

1137
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 3: apiary worker that they used in the movie. He's got

1138
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 3: like one quick line and he doesn't sound like an actor.

1139
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 2: Oh you.

1140
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 3: But the boss here asks a worker at the main

1141
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: harvesting area about doctor Zenthrop. And apparently the honey company

1142
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 3: that owns the apary pays doctor z Enthrop to do

1143
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 3: experiments on bees and honey production. But Zenthrop has been

1144
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 3: hugely overcharging his company account and hasn't filed a progress

1145
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 3: report in months, So what's he doing up there? And

1146
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 3: then the worker guy, they got this very folksy guy.

1147
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 3: He says, oh shucks, that Zenthrop be's a nut him

1148
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: and his bees. Guys, they're all out there with bees.

1149
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 3: But he says, you know, one of these days, I

1150
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 3: wouldn't be surprised to see him flap his arms and

1151
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 3: take off after some queen bee like the rest of

1152
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: the drones. This guy also tells the boss that he

1153
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 3: likes to be like the bees, busy, busy, busy. So

1154
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 3: this guy, he's sucking up to the boss. So the

1155
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 3: Boss goes to check out Zinthrop's lab and he finds

1156
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 3: that Xenthrop has strayed way off mission. Instead of what

1157
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 3: he's supposed to be doing with the bees, he has

1158
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 3: been running experiments on queen wasp royal jelly. Zinthrop claims

1159
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 3: he has discovered it has incredible powers of rejuvenation. He

1160
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: shows the Boss an adult dog and a puppy and

1161
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 3: then he says they're actually the same age. The puppy,

1162
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: which he says is named Greta, received an injection of

1163
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: his wasp rejuvenation treatment, and the Boss is like, look,

1164
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 3: here's Nthrop. I understand about science and progress and all,

1165
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: but you're fired and Xthrops he's a little bit heartbroken.

1166
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 3: The boss says, you just don't seem to be one

1167
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 3: of the team. You understand, you'll fit in somewhere else.

1168
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 3: And Zenthrop sits down and he talks to his wasps.

1169
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 3: He reassures them that they will find they will find

1170
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 3: a new home, everything will be all right. And then

1171
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 3: he says, now, how would you like a nice juicy caterpillar?

1172
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 3: And he tosses a caterpillar into the suitcase and then

1173
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 3: slams it shut like he's running his Zone caterpillar boo box.

1174
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 3: So you didn't see any of this so far?

1175
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: No, none of that the cut I watched the theatrical cut.

1176
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 2: Once the credits are down, we go straight to the

1177
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 2: board meeting.

1178
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 3: Interesting because I would say that the version of the

1179
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 3: movie you got has an even less mad scientist than

1180
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 3: the version I saw, because the maddest we ever sees

1181
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 3: Enthrop really is in this opening scene where he's talking

1182
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 3: to the wasps and feeding them caterpillars and stuff. So yeah,

1183
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 3: now we go to the board meeting at Jenis Starlin Enterprises.

1184
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 3: Jennis Starlin, the founder and CEO of this world class

1185
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 3: cosmetics company is. It's headquartered in New York. She is

1186
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 3: holding a board meeting to discuss recent a recent decline

1187
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 3: in sales from the last quarter, and she grills the executives,

1188
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: demanding they give an explanation for the poor performance. Nobody

1189
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 3: will speak up. One of the boss is, when put

1190
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 3: on the spot, makes the excuse that he is not

1191
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 3: feeling well. So they are they are afraid. They don't

1192
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 3: want to say what they're thinking. Eventually, only one of

1193
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 3: them has the guts to speak up, and it is

1194
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 3: this guy named Billy Lane.

1195
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 2: And he is really I mean, nobody's eager to speak.

1196
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 2: But when he decides to speak, there's a certain swagger

1197
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 2: to him that initially I was like, Oh, this guy's

1198
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: trouble about. He's about to make a power play or something.

1199
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought the exact same thing when I first

1200
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 3: saw it. Yeah, so he says, if you look, sales

1201
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 3: begin to fall off exactly the month that the company

1202
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 3: made one change. It was the month that they first

1203
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 3: took Janis Starlind's fate off of the company's advertising. See

1204
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 3: she built the company from the ground up, using her

1205
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: face in all of the company's imagery, and her face

1206
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 3: has been the only face associated with Starlin Cosmetics since

1207
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 3: the beginning until a few months ago, when for the

1208
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 3: first time, she went off the ads and they started

1209
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 3: using new models, and Lane says, look, people associate your

1210
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 3: face with the brand. They trust you, and after so long,

1211
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 3: taking your face off the brand causes distrust. So his

1212
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 3: suggestion is, let's just put your face back in the ads,

1213
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 3: and everybody agrees with him. There is applause from the board,

1214
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 3: but Starlin is not impressed. She says, I think I've

1215
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 3: had enough flattery for one morning, gentleman. And then later

1216
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 3: she says, you know, that might have been impressive analysis,

1217
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 3: but one small fact you have overlooked. Not even Janis

1218
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 3: Starlin can remain a glamour girl forever, and then she

1219
01:06:55,080 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 3: dismisses them. So I thought it's interesting that they didn't

1220
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 3: go with the more cruel version of this premise, which

1221
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 3: would have been that the public stopped buying the product

1222
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 3: because they thought she didn't look young and beautiful enough anymore. Instead,

1223
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 3: it's framed more as a matter of Starlin's internal anxiety

1224
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 3: and lack of self confidence about her appearance as she's aging.

1225
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 3: It's that she decided to take her face off the

1226
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 3: product because she feels insecure about looking older, and then

1227
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 3: the market did not respond well to the change that

1228
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 3: her face isn't on there anymore. For all we know,

1229
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 3: the cosmetics consumer in the world of this movie would

1230
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 3: still be happy with how she looks, but we know

1231
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 3: that she is not happy. I thought that's kind of interesting.

1232
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 3: You would think maybe that the easier place to go

1233
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 3: with the story would be the former.

1234
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is a good point, and you to

1235
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 2: come back to the Amy Sedaris version that I hope

1236
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 2: we get to see one day. I wonder which version

1237
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: how they might tweak it for comedic value, because the

1238
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 2: crueler version could be more funny and more humorous if

1239
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: you tweaked it just right.

1240
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I wonder about a version of the story where

1241
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: the CEO is not feeling insecure about her looks, or

1242
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 3: maybe more realistically, especially if you're going for like a

1243
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 3: comedy skewering of this character where they are feeling insecure

1244
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 3: but they're not willing to admit it for you know,

1245
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 3: in front of others. Yeah. Yeah, I also think an

1246
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 3: interesting thing could be approaching this from a gender flipped way,

1247
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 3: you know, you know, like gender expectations about beauty and

1248
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 3: aging are like a huge thing that affects how the

1249
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 3: story is perceived. Though you know, you could imagine like

1250
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 3: a kind of like male beauty wellness thing. I mean,

1251
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 3: there are tons of products out there like that now,

1252
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 3: with like guys who associate themselves with the product they're

1253
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 3: selling in a certain kind of male appearance of youth

1254
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 3: and masculinity and virility and all that. And yeah, I

1255
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 3: could imagine the story being taken interesting ways with that

1256
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 3: as well. Yeah, anyway, bringing it back to this board meetings.

1257
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, Starlin, she does not take kindly to the

1258
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 3: idea that she's going to go back on the ads,

1259
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 3: and she just seems generally like weary and unhappy at

1260
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 3: the beginning of the story. But then a phone call

1261
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 3: comes in Starlin's secretary, Mary informs her that a doctor's

1262
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 3: xnthrope is waiting in the office to see her. So

1263
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 3: here we go. I think you can almost guess what's

1264
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 3: going to happen at this point.

1265
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: Well I could. I mean I could because I know

1266
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 2: what the premise of the film was. But for me,

1267
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: this is a much more mysterious character. He just comes

1268
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, almost like a like a mysterious stranger,

1269
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 2: bringing some sort of a promise.

1270
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 3: This movie is probably better without the intro with all

1271
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 3: the bees. I think, yeah, now that I think about it,

1272
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 3: and that also even keeps it tighter. I mean, go

1273
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 3: ahead and make these movies short.

1274
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 2: People.

1275
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 3: You do not have to pad a film out just

1276
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 3: even seventy minutes, certainly not to ninety minutes and.

1277
01:09:58,600 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 2: A half hours.

1278
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 3: Six A sixty three minute movie is okay. I give

1279
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 3: it seal of approval if that's If that's what the

1280
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 3: movie needs to be, that's what you should do. But

1281
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 3: before the meeting with Zinthrop, she pulls aside Arthur Cooper,

1282
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 3: the man of chemistry on the board. He's because he's

1283
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 3: a guy, you know, the science representative, often smoking a pipe,

1284
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 3: and she asks him, you've done work on Queen Bee

1285
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 3: royal jelly and it's supposed restorative properties, as she wants

1286
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 3: to know, is there really any therapeutic value in it.

1287
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 3: He's a bit equivocal. He says, there's probably some value,

1288
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 3: but it's not proven yet. We don't really know, and

1289
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 3: it will if there is value, it will depend on

1290
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 3: individual reactions.

1291
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:42,839
Speaker 2: Quote.

1292
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: One man's meat is another man's poison, she asks, supposing

1293
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 3: a more powerful version of royal jelly could be obtained

1294
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 3: from the Queen Wasp for example, and he frowns almost like,

1295
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 3: oh not this clap trap again. And because I was wondering, like,

1296
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 3: why would you assume a queen wasp roil jelly would

1297
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 3: be more powerful? It's like a wasp is bigger than

1298
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 3: a bee.

1299
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it looks meaner, less cute.

1300
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 3: Uh, Cooper says, I wrote this quote down. I'd stay

1301
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 3: away from wasps if I were you, Miss Darlin. Socially,

1302
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 3: the queen wasp is on the level with the black

1303
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 3: widow spider. They're both carnivorous. They paralyze their victims and

1304
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 3: then take their time devouring them alive, and they kill

1305
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 3: their mates in the same way too. Strictly a one

1306
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 3: sided romance. But I mean if that were true, if

1307
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 3: that is, I don't I didn't look at this up.

1308
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: No comment on the science here. I'm not going to

1309
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 2: tarnish this discussion with any actual wasp signs.

1310
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 3: Oh but well, yeah, never mind. Just drawing conclusions from

1311
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,759
Speaker 3: insect mating behavior is funny, Okay.

1312
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 2: Anyway, I don't want to associate with this as a

1313
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 2: source because it could tarnish our corporate brand because the

1314
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 2: insects murder each other.

1315
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, so he advises her to forget

1316
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 3: about it, and she says okay, and then he leaves.

1317
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 3: She calls in doctor's Enthrope and Starlin says, I'm afraid

1318
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 3: I can't give you much time today, mister Enthrope. And

1319
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 3: he says, but it is I who will give you time,

1320
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 3: Miss Starlin, ten maybe fifteen years. I can give you.

1321
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 3: So's that's a good pitch. So she's like, go on, okay,

1322
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: good reversal. She says, she demands absolute proof of what

1323
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 3: he claimed in his letter, and so, okay, off to

1324
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,679
Speaker 3: the laboratory. It's time to see the proof right now.

1325
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 3: So this is the scene where Zenthrop demonstrates that his

1326
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 3: enzyme from Queen Wasp royal jelly can reverse the aging process.

1327
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 3: Though what's actually shown on screen, and I had to

1328
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 3: rewind it the first time. I was like, did I

1329
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 3: see this right? What he does is he injects a

1330
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 3: guinea pig with this stuff and that turns the guinea

1331
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 3: pig into a rat.

1332
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 2: Yes, that is absolutely what is depicted here. I don't

1333
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: know if they were rigal going to do rats into

1334
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 2: mice as if that would be more realistic, but what

1335
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 2: they had was guinea pigs into rats, and so that's

1336
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: what we're going with.

1337
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 3: I think it's supposed to be it turns the guinea

1338
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 3: pig into a younger guinea pig, but they couldn't. Maybe

1339
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 3: they didn't think a younger guinea pig would register.

1340
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 2: Were you not aware that guinea pigs are just old rats.

1341
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 3: Once they go through the metamorphosis, a rat goes into

1342
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 3: its creasalis and it So she says, okay, I'm convinced

1343
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 3: that rat that I love this rat. You did a

1344
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 3: great job. So she gives in through a p laboratory.

1345
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 3: She sets him to work, though she says one caveat. No,

1346
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 3: the caveat is not from her, it's from him. He says,

1347
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 3: you know, I know my formula works on animals, but

1348
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 3: it may not be safe for human beings. I haven't

1349
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 3: tested it yet, so human deployment that's going to have

1350
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 3: to wait on results for more safety tests. But she

1351
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 3: doesn't want to wait. She says, you will test it

1352
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 3: on me, and he tries to argue with her, Oh no, no, no,

1353
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 3: we're not going to do that, and she insists. So

1354
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 3: he gets to work creating doses for human consumption.

1355
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: All right, So we get some more tests here. I

1356
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 2: don't know if we want to mention the full progression.

1357
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: I don't know if they plan this out, but they're like, Okay,

1358
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 2: we're gonna turn pigs, we turn rats into guinea pigs,

1359
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 2: the other way around. Yeah, guinea pigs into rats. Then

1360
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 2: we're going to turn cats into kittens. Makes sense, and

1361
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 2: then basically time for human testing. Right after that, just

1362
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: three steps.

1363
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 3: We get a montage here where we start seeing mostly

1364
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 3: repeated footage we've already seen so laboratory bees, rats, guinea pigs, rats, executives,

1365
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 3: and I think it's just stuff is happening.

1366
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, rat race too, you know, I don't know.

1367
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 3: It kind of works, yeah, And then after the montage

1368
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 3: there is a scene where Billy Lane and and Mary

1369
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 3: are talking while Mary transcribes a document on the typewriter.

1370
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 3: We get the idea in the scene that they are

1371
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 3: romantically involved. They've been dating, and Billy says he does

1372
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 3: not trust this new guy at the company Zenthrop quote.

1373
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 3: He must be the granddaddy of all confidence men to

1374
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,759
Speaker 3: get Starlin to fall for his tricks. Why doesn't somebody

1375
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 3: whise her up? Mary says, somebody like you, for instance,

1376
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 3: But she wants to know why does he think that

1377
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 3: Zinthrop is a fraud? And Lane says, oh, you're as

1378
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 3: bad as she is. Oh women. Then Mary says men,

1379
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: so reversal on the women. Men. Every time you're stuck

1380
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 3: for an answer, you always come up with women. You're

1381
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 3: not getting out of this one so easily. I'd like

1382
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,879
Speaker 3: to know why you think Zenthrop really hasn't got something.

1383
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 3: And then Billy says, well, you can call it male

1384
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 3: intuition if you like, except there's something about this whole

1385
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 3: business that doesn't smell right. A private laboratory, a secret experiment,

1386
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 3: zen Thrope himself. The only thing missing is a genie

1387
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 3: with a lamp. And then Mary says, you better leave

1388
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 3: the intuition to me, and they discuss going out to dinner.

1389
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 3: Apparently they keep flipping a coin to see who pays

1390
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 3: for the check when they go out, but Billy always wins,

1391
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 3: so Mary wants a different arrangement, and he suggests that

1392
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 3: he will buy her dinner if she starts spying on

1393
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 3: Xenthrop and Starlin for him. So they're oh. And then

1394
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,679
Speaker 3: also this is the part where they get interrupted by Cooper,

1395
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 3: who comes in and he's also suspicious of Zenthrop, and

1396
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 3: this is the scene where they discuss the difference between

1397
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,719
Speaker 3: a quack and a con man. I know you thought

1398
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 3: you liked this one.

1399
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 2: I really like this. Yeah, I thought this was a

1400
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 2: nice back and forth where I'm read the dialogue here

1401
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 2: where Billy Lane says, I've been trying to tell bright

1402
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 2: Eyes here that I think Zenthrop is a phony and

1403
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 2: a confidence man, and Arthur says, if I were sure

1404
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 2: of that, I wouldn't be worried. I think he's a

1405
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 2: lot more dangerous a quack. And then Billy Lane's says, well,

1406
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 2: I don't follow you, Coop, And then Arthur continues and

1407
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 2: he says, well, a confidence man would just be interested

1408
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 2: in your money. The only damage they can do is

1409
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 2: to your pocket book. A quack can be fatal. So

1410
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: so yeah, I like the way they're positioning that, you know, like, like,

1411
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 2: what is the true threat here? Is the threat that

1412
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's just you know, trying to make

1413
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 2: some money off of it, or is the threat that

1414
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 2: he's he's offering something that's not real at all? Of course,

1415
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 2: we know at this point, he pointed out, like we

1416
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 2: are we the viewer know that he can already turn

1417
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 2: guinea pigs into rats, like whatever, he's already doing something,

1418
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 2: or if he's it seems like it's legit. But you

1419
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 2: know this is from their point of view, and they're

1420
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 2: trying to figure out exactly what the threat is.

1421
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 3: Well, I think Cooper's correct in the sense in that

1422
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 3: if he were a con man, I think what he's

1423
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 3: saying is he would just be taking the money. But

1424
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 3: as a quack, even though his serum does work in

1425
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:01,639
Speaker 3: a sense to reverse the aging, he is he together

1426
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 3: with Starlin or playing off each other in a way

1427
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 3: where they were moving to human testing before it is safe. Yeah,

1428
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:09,839
Speaker 3: so it works, but it's not safe.

1429
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in this it could be fatal in the

1430
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 2: business sense or certainly, as we'll see, in the human

1431
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 2: sense as well.

1432
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, this is the part where we get some

1433
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 3: color in these scenes with the secretaries gossiping and like

1434
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 3: talking trash about their boyfriends. This is the scene of

1435
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 3: Maureen with the put on Brooklyn accent saying, so, I

1436
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 3: says to him, I says, listen, Irving, I'm getting sick

1437
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 3: of this TV every night. And so she wants Irving

1438
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 3: to take her out to a night club. And yeah, oh,

1439
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 3: this is also the scene with the doctor Cyclops. But yeah, anyway,

1440
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 3: did you notice how this was the first scene I

1441
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 3: noticed it that there's supposed to be an elevator that

1442
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,839
Speaker 3: opens directly into the office, so not into a hallway,

1443
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 3: just the elevator doors slide apart and you go straight

1444
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 3: into the room with all the secretaries.

1445
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know. I mean there's at least one

1446
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: maybe older office building in the Atlanta area that does

1447
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 2: that that I can think of. And I've heard of

1448
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 2: cases where you have like really fancy, like New York

1449
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 2: apartments where the elevator goes directly to the floor. So

1450
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,799
Speaker 2: I guess it exists and certainly existed.

1451
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 3: Well, obviously this is not a real elevator door. This

1452
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 3: is just boards that people are manually sliding open and

1453
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 3: closed on either side of the doorway.

1454
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1455
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, So anyway, time to test on humans. Zinthrop shows

1456
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 3: Starlin a kitten and says, yesterday this was a cat.

1457
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 3: She is overjoyed. She says, you're a kitten. You've got

1458
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,759
Speaker 3: your whole life to live over again, and Zenthrop swabs

1459
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 3: Stalin's arm with alcohol and then gives her her first injection.

1460
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 3: So here we go then we cut to three weeks

1461
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 3: three weeks later, and Starlin is working in her office.

1462
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:04,440
Speaker 3: She looks in a compact mirror and she's not satisfied.

1463
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:09,719
Speaker 3: She is not improving fast enough. Zinthrop encourages patience. He says,

1464
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 3: there's more to you than a little kitten and a

1465
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:15,600
Speaker 3: difference in metabolism. But we can see that Starlin is

1466
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 3: not happy. She wants more drastic results, faster, and Zinthrop

1467
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 3: just mentions offhand in the scene, he's like, ah, you know,

1468
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 3: I've been working on a much more powerful, more concentrated

1469
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 3: version of the enzyme, possibly for use highly deluded, of course,

1470
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 3: in lotions in the future. But of course it's not

1471
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 3: safe yet. Wink wink. It is over there in the refrigerator, though,

1472
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 3: And that was my implication I was putting on it. Zenthrop.

1473
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 3: Once again, he's not suggesting that she take it.

1474
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 2: But she sees the opening. She's like, oh, well, I'll

1475
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 2: just that's strong enough. I'll just use that. I won't

1476
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:54,480
Speaker 2: delude it. I'll just directly into my veins. Yeah.

1477
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 3: So there is a there's a sequence in here where

1478
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 3: Mary steals the letter from from Zenthrop out of Starlin's

1479
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 3: desk and then takes it to Lane and Cooper at

1480
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 3: lunch and they sit around looking at it, and Cooper

1481
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 3: concludes that Zenthrop is a very capable confidence man. In fact,

1482
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 3: quote he claims he can stimulate the processes of rejuvenation

1483
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 3: and stimulate the processes of rejuvenation through the use of

1484
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: enzymes extracted from wasps. And so the three of them

1485
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 3: are trying to figure out a way to get to

1486
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 3: get through to Starlin and expose Zenthrop for the fraud

1487
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 3: that he is. Though once again we know the seerum

1488
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 3: already works, it just might not be safe. And then

1489
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 3: later that night, alone in her office, Janis Starlin is

1490
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 3: she's sad, tired, anxious, something is getting to her, and

1491
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 3: she sneaks down into Zynthrop's laboratory, breaks into the refrigerator,

1492
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 3: takes out the extra powerful wasp juice and she injects

1493
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 3: herself and then so it seems like, well, maybe she's

1494
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 3: gonna maybe it's gonna work out great. But while she's

1495
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 3: sneaking out of the office, out of the last we

1496
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 3: get a glimpse of the cage where Xenthrop was keeping

1497
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,560
Speaker 3: the kitten, the cat he had transformed back into a

1498
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 3: kitten ain't a kitten anymore. Now it is a cat,

1499
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 3: a sort of angry, greasy looking cat.

1500
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 2: But only like it just looks like somebody rubbed grease

1501
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 2: on a cat. And now the cat's a little perturbed.

1502
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 2: But the scene still kind of hits, and it stirred

1503
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 2: something in my memory and I realized this is and

1504
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 2: I don't think this is actually patterned after it, but

1505
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four is alien romulus. There is a

1506
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 2: scene where a character takes samples of an injectable serum

1507
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:37,600
Speaker 2: in a mad science lab, runs off with it, and

1508
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:41,640
Speaker 2: then we pan over to the horrifying results of experimentation

1509
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 2: on rats with that same ingredient to drive home up.

1510
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 2: This is not going to work out well for anyone.

1511
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 3: So the next scene there is a revelation. Finally we

1512
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 3: get the altered form of Susan Cabbot as the much

1513
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 3: rejuvenated Starlin. She comes into the office looking twenty years younger,

1514
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 3: and then the secretary, Mareene sees her and she's just stunned,

1515
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 3: jaw hanging open. She's like, is that really you, miss Starlin?

1516
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 3: And Staralin kind of is like, finish your nails, Mareene

1517
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 3: they're a little bit they're a little bit mean to

1518
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 3: each other. Here there are tinges of jealousy from Marine

1519
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 3: and gloating from Starlin. And now everybody sees she looks

1520
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 3: twenty years younger, and she makes a pitch to the board.

1521
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 3: She gathers the board for a meeting, and she says,

1522
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 3: our new company slogan will be returned to youth with

1523
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 3: Janis Starlin. We are now no longer just a cosmetics company.

1524
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 3: We are a rejuvenation company.

1525
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. And this is this is where everyone starts quite

1526
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 2: like bringing up some very good points, like we can't

1527
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 2: just suddenly become a rejuvenation company, like like you're talking about,

1528
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 2: we're no longer a cosmetic company, We're like a medical company.

1529
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,880
Speaker 3: Yes. And this is actually not in this scene. It's

1530
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 3: in the later board scene when she's pressing them to

1531
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 3: go forward with the rejuvenation slogan. In that later scene,

1532
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 3: one one of the executives, a minor character, says, I

1533
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 3: think we should be a little more conservative with our messaging.

1534
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 3: Cosmetics are one thing, medicine is another. Very sound yeah, true.

1535
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,759
Speaker 3: But at the same time, Mary here seems genuinely happy

1536
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 3: for Starlin. She confesses how they had been plotting to

1537
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 3: rescue her from a doctor's nthrop but now it all

1538
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 3: seems so silly because obviously he's not he's not a

1539
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 3: con man. His stuff really works, and Starlin is just overjoyed.

1540
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 3: She's asking Mary over and over how old do I look?

1541
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 3: How old do I look? And she talks about how

1542
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 3: she now looks exactly like she did when she started

1543
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 3: the company eighteen years ago, so she can start all over,

1544
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 3: she can do it all over again. It's like a dream.

1545
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 3: But good dreams come to an end because the next

1546
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 3: scene is a cat attack as Zinthrop goes into his lab.

1547
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 3: Remember that greasy cat was a cat, then it was

1548
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 3: a kitten, then it was a greasy angry cat.

1549
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 2: It's essentially a mutant wasp cat. I think that's what

1550
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 2: they're going for here.

1551
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, mutant wasp, greasy angry cat. Now it attacks his nthrop.

1552
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 3: It jumps and like grapples his neck and he has

1553
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:14,600
Speaker 3: to break the cat in half essentially, And then we

1554
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 3: see him, now quite depressed, cramming the dead cat into

1555
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 3: an incinerator, and then he wanders outside and steps in

1556
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 3: front of a bus.

1557
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like time to just walk into traffic. So

1558
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 2: again he's not a mad scientist, but because realizing what

1559
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 2: he's done is destructive, he's like, he clearly has a

1560
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 2: lot of regrets.

1561
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:38,200
Speaker 3: Yes, he's deeply, deeply upset, and we see him knock

1562
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 3: to the pavement and the scene. One scene that I

1563
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 3: do think is unintentionally comical is this scene where he

1564
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 3: gets hit by a car because it's just kind of

1565
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 3: a bam and then he just like falls down.

1566
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't actually see it. It's just step

1567
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 2: out horns, you know.

1568
01:25:51,200 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1569
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, there's a scene out at a restaurant where we

1570
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 3: have Lane, Mary and Cooper conspiring once again, and Cooper

1571
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 3: is expressing doubts. You know. It seems that Mary is thinking, wow,

1572
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 3: so he's not a con man.

1573
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 2: After all.

1574
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 3: The stuff really works. But Cooper is like, you know,

1575
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 3: I'm reminded of another doctor who is implanting monkey glands

1576
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 3: into people a few years ago. Seemed to work for

1577
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 3: a while, then the deterioration set in and he says,

1578
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 3: if only I could get a look at his lab

1579
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 3: see what he's using. Actually, before we started recording, we

1580
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 3: were looking up who this because this is at least

1581
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 3: one actual case in history of a quack surgeon who

1582
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 3: was implanting monkey glands and people as a you know,

1583
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:45,759
Speaker 3: panas over all different kinds of things.

1584
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it inspired the Sherlock Holme Store The Adventure

1585
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 2: of the Creeping Man from nineteen twenty three.

1586
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 3: Yes, so that is real medical pseudoscience history. People were

1587
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 3: and it was not even the only case in medical

1588
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,640
Speaker 3: fraud history of zeno transplantation. That's what they call it,

1589
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 3: you know, putting organs from one animal into a human

1590
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 3: to do something, you know, and also there you know,

1591
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 3: you can say that in real medicine there are some

1592
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 3: cases of xeno transplantation that have been shown to work,

1593
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 3: but a lot of these early things that it was

1594
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 3: just quackery.

1595
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about some of these on the

1596
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 2: show before, like some of the skin transplants where you know,

1597
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 2: trying out transplanting stuff like frog skin, and you know,

1598
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,679
Speaker 2: at times in the short term it seemed to work

1599
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 2: because you know, for a variety of reasons that had

1600
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 2: nothing to do with with the flesh actually like growing

1601
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 2: and adapting, but just like maybe it was like helping

1602
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 2: to cover up the the damage tissue for a little bit.

1603
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 2: Things like that. So at times. Yeah, some of these

1604
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 2: experiments seem to work, and that was part of the

1605
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 2: danger of them.

1606
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we were talking about how I'm sure we

1607
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,280
Speaker 3: didn't check, but I'm sure there are some wellness influencers

1608
01:27:56,320 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 3: out there today who are like, yeah, what you need

1609
01:27:58,400 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 3: is monkey clans.

1610
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got some monkey glands out there trying to

1611
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 2: sell them, I'm sure.

1612
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:08,879
Speaker 3: So Cooper sneaks into Zenthrop's lab to solve the rejuvenation mystery,

1613
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 3: like is it monkey glands? What's going on? And he

1614
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 3: finds evidence of wasp related funny business. There's a plot

1615
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:21,879
Speaker 3: section where Starlin desperately hires a private investigator to find Zenthrop.

1616
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 3: She needs him to come back and make more waspin

1617
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 3: Zion post taste Where could he be? And also in

1618
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 3: this part of the movie, we see that Starlin is

1619
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:34,520
Speaker 3: starting to get headaches, some kind of attacks or periodically

1620
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 3: coming over her the PI man hunt. I thought this

1621
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 3: part felt kind of like padding, but Robison, you said

1622
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 3: you liked it more.

1623
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:44,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is one of those things where

1624
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 2: again first draft scenario where you could imagine a down

1625
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 2: river version of this script where they maybe play because

1626
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 2: played up the sort of uncertainty about everything, because it

1627
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 2: does kind of tease with this idea, Like he's asked

1628
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 2: the PI is asking her like a, you know, don't

1629
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:02,519
Speaker 2: this guy works for you? Don't you know anything about him?

1630
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, he wasn't really a traditional employee,

1631
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,640
Speaker 2: so yeah, I don't know his home address or and

1632
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 2: I don't have his phone number and all this where

1633
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 2: you're really beginning you can, or at least I was

1634
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 2: kind of imagining it from her point of view, like

1635
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 2: she's maybe realizing, oh, yeah, I really didn't research this guy.

1636
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,679
Speaker 2: We just we just really jumped into this very quickly.

1637
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 2: So I kind of liked it, But again, part of

1638
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 2: that is in imagining where it could have gone if

1639
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:30,559
Speaker 2: this had been developed more.

1640
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. So eventually they find he's

1641
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 3: in the hospital. He's not dead, but he's in a coma.

1642
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 3: At this point, I think, and Starlin says that she

1643
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 3: will pay anything to fund his recovery. The best doctors

1644
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 3: around the clock care everything, but he must be able

1645
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 3: to get back to work.

1646
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 2: She needs more wasps, and as we already discussed, is

1647
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 2: in let's get a hospital bed in the office.

1648
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to get him in there exactly. We

1649
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 3: also see her secretly sneaking off to give herself more injections,

1650
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 3: but I think the serum is running low, so she's

1651
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 3: got to get him to make more soon. And then

1652
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 3: one night we see Cooper, the distinguished you know, the

1653
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 3: scientist guy, sneak into his anthrops lab to get more

1654
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 3: information about his research. He wants to understand what's going on.

1655
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 3: And here we get Now we're nearing the end of

1656
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,879
Speaker 3: the movie, and we get our first Wasp woman attack

1657
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 3: because Starlin has been in there injecting herself and the

1658
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 3: Cooper hears some kind of buzzing sound and then sees

1659
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 3: a horrible creature that rushes toward him and bites his

1660
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 3: neck and spits chocolate syrup on his throat.

1661
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, a furry b woman with things. Yeah. Again, I

1662
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:42,920
Speaker 2: don't think it's I don't think anybody was happy with

1663
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:45,520
Speaker 2: how it's turned out. But at least, like we said,

1664
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 2: they try to keep it in the shadows. It's shot

1665
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 2: pretty well so it doesn't look completely crappy on the screen.

1666
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:56,560
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't you know what, I just thought of it.

1667
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 3: So she's got the in wasp mode. She has kind

1668
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 3: of big hair, but they could have embraced it and

1669
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,880
Speaker 3: given her a full beehive hairdo what do you think?

1670
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean why not?

1671
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Why not like B fifty two's Yeah yeah, notes for

1672
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:14,720
Speaker 3: Amy Sidaris and co you know, think about it.

1673
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am very very interested to see what they

1674
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 2: do with the full monster mode in that. But I imagine

1675
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 2: they'll do something where, again, Amy Sidarius is such a

1676
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 2: great physical performer, they'll come up with something that plays

1677
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 2: to her strengths and maybe won't be as as much

1678
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 2: coverage as this particular get up is.

1679
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 3: Now. There are more boardroom scenes in the movie where

1680
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 3: Starlin insists on using the return to youth line even

1681
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 3: though her people are against it, and then somewhere in

1682
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 3: there there's another catty secretary scene that's pretty great. Maureen

1683
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 3: is talking to the other secretary and she's like, if

1684
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:53,600
Speaker 3: that stuff takes fifteen years off Starlin, I'm sure it

1685
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 3: could take ten off you. And then she says, oh, yeah, Well,

1686
01:31:57,439 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 3: if I were you, I'd take a double dose, and

1687
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 3: then maybe I wouldn't watch television so much. And I

1688
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 3: love how there is barely any discussion of the disappearance

1689
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:06,719
Speaker 3: of Cooper.

1690
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, just the yeah, they're just like, you know, he's conscientious.

1691
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:12,799
Speaker 2: Then you know, I'm sure he's just sick or something.

1692
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but here's the part we were talking about where

1693
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:19,719
Speaker 3: they move Zinthrop in the hospital bed into the office.

1694
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 3: While they're moving in in, he's trying to remember he

1695
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 3: had something important to tell Starlin, but he can't quite

1696
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 3: get it out, and then he falls unconscious. There's one

1697
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,600
Speaker 3: scene in here that's funny where now Billy Lane is

1698
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 3: ogling Starlin. He's got the hots for the boss, I guess,

1699
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 3: and Mary is like, hey, Bill, don't don't go getting

1700
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 3: any ideas. And Bill's like, oh, you know me, I'm

1701
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 3: just trying to be a good employee. Do you think

1702
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 3: Zenthrop could get you any of those treatments. There's also

1703
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 3: there are a bunch of scenes throughout here with the

1704
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 3: night Watchman. There's just a just a guy who loves

1705
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 3: his radio programs.

1706
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically listening to podcast and he gets his own

1707
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 2: goofy music walking around.

1708
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,559
Speaker 3: But unfortunately he's you know, he's going around listening to

1709
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 3: his programs and he suddenly he hears buzzing inside the laboratory. Oh,

1710
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 3: so he draws his revolver out of his belt and

1711
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 3: he wanders in, and that's the last we see of

1712
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 3: the night Watchman. Now, eventually Lane and Mary do start

1713
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 3: to get worried because why has Cooper been missing so long?

1714
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 3: And they go looking around and in the office somewhere

1715
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 3: they find his pipe. He never goes anywhere without it.

1716
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking, after Godzilla versus Meca Godzilla,

1717
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 3: this is our second movie two weeks in a row

1718
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 3: that has a very important pipe discovered late in the film.

1719
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 3: And while this is happening, Starlin is down at Xenthrop's

1720
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 3: bedside begging him for help. She's like, you got to

1721
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:49,680
Speaker 3: get me more of the enzyme, but he's like, no, no,

1722
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 3: you can't take any more. And then we get another

1723
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,000
Speaker 3: Wasp Woman a tack scene because the nurse comes into

1724
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 3: the room just when Starlin is transformed into the Wasp

1725
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 3: Woman yet again. She attacks her and the chocolate's her

1726
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 3: up on the throat yet again. And then she goes

1727
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 3: up to the laboratory and looks at bees. They're bees. Okay, Well,

1728
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 3: finally we're at the climax. So Xenthrop starts to come

1729
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,280
Speaker 3: to his senses while Mary and Lane are in his

1730
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 3: room trying to figure out what's going on, and he

1731
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,160
Speaker 3: explains Starlin is in danger. She cannot take any more

1732
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:26,759
Speaker 3: of the injections. Quote the enzymes, the enzymes, they're going

1733
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 3: crazy for some reason. Mary runs up to talk to

1734
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 3: Starlin and then Billy Lane is left down there with

1735
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 3: Zenthrop by himself, and Zenthrop says, Miss Starlin is not

1736
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:42,720
Speaker 3: a human being any longer. The enzymes have changed her.

1737
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:45,760
Speaker 3: She will destroy the girl as an evil Wasp would

1738
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 3: destroy her enemies then devour the remains. Oh, so she's

1739
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 3: been eating everybody. We didn't realize that, Hooper.

1740
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I guess that's where they went.

1741
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this builds to a climax where Wasp Woman

1742
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 3: attacks Mary, Zinthrop and Billy Lane have to run up

1743
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 3: to the rescue. This is the scene where Billy kicks

1744
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 3: through the glass door and I guess it's real. So

1745
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 3: how is the Wasp Woman going to be defeated? It's

1746
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 3: kind of anti climactic. They just Zinthrop grabs a jar

1747
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:18,280
Speaker 3: that's standing on the table that's clearly labeled acid. It's

1748
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:21,920
Speaker 3: carbolic acid. He throws it at the Wasp Woman. Smoke

1749
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 3: starts coming off of her, and then she crashes through

1750
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 3: a window and falls falls down to the street below,

1751
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 3: still smoking, and then we fade to bees and that's

1752
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:30,679
Speaker 3: the end.

1753
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 2: Wow. I was wondering, you know, when I knew that

1754
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,960
Speaker 2: you'd watched the extended cut, I was like, maybe there's

1755
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 2: a little extra at the end.

1756
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's gonna say something about what happened.

1757
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 2: Nope, but it's off in the case with some of

1758
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 2: these fifties films where the ending comes and it's it.

1759
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 2: They're done, They're like, go on, go home. There are a.

1760
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:51,800
Speaker 3: Few different abrupt ways they end at the time.

1761
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1762
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 3: Often the monster dies and as soon as the monsters down,

1763
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 3: we're fading to the credits. That's it. No commentary on

1764
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 3: what happened. Other times we get a little bit of commentary,

1765
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:04,760
Speaker 3: like in Bride of the Monster with he Tampered in

1766
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:08,679
Speaker 3: God's Domain. I feel like the.

1767
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 2: Bride of Frankenstein, wasn't it to go back to an

1768
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 2: earlier decade We're dead? Yeah? But was that the one

1769
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 2: where we get kind of the joyous or am I

1770
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,240
Speaker 2: thinking about the original Frankenstein. There's one of the one

1771
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 2: of the older Frankenstein films that it has like this

1772
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 2: really weird upbeat ending like with laughter and Champagne, where

1773
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 2: they're like, why why did we do this? What was

1774
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:29,800
Speaker 2: wrong with the ending on the scene beforehand.

1775
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,719
Speaker 3: I don't remember which one you're talking about. That sounds

1776
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,599
Speaker 3: kind of familiar my memory. I remember at the ending

1777
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 3: of Bride as we Belong Dead.

1778
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, and that's that's that's a great place to end.

1779
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:43,240
Speaker 2: But sometimes so you know, there's this feeling like, well,

1780
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 2: we need to send them, send everybody home happy, or

1781
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 2: we need to send everybody just send him home because

1782
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:50,599
Speaker 2: we've got to get the next next film going here.

1783
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:56,799
Speaker 3: It's a double feature. After all, he tampered in WASP domain. Okay,

1784
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,559
Speaker 3: so that's Wasp Woman there. I think it's a lot

1785
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 3: of fun. I'm going to say, I actually, even though

1786
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it, I recommend the shorter one.

1787
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:08,360
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I have I'm the opposite, and that

1788
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the longer version. But I'm still going

1789
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 2: to say, yeah, go with the shorter version. I don't

1790
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,639
Speaker 2: think you really gained anything by attacking on an extra

1791
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 2: ten minutes, but I you know you're not going to

1792
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 2: suffer too much by watching the other version. So whichever

1793
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 2: one you can get hold of. Yeah, the Wasp Woman.

1794
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 2: I thought it was a lot of fun, and yeah,

1795
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:31,200
Speaker 2: I'm eager to see what happens with the potential remas

1796
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:31,799
Speaker 2: in the future.

1797
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 3: Yes, certainly.

1798
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'd love to hear from everyone out there

1799
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 2: if you have thoughts about The Wasp Woman, or or

1800
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:44,440
Speaker 2: if you've seen any of these other films about rejuvenation

1801
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:48,720
Speaker 2: that are connected to it. Right in, we would love

1802
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:50,720
Speaker 2: to hear from you. Just a reminder to everyone out

1803
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 2: there that's Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a

1804
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 2: science and culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

1805
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 2: but on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns just

1806
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,760
Speaker 2: talk about a weird film here on Weird House Cinema.

1807
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 2: You can follow the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast

1808
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 2: on a number of different social platforms, but if you

1809
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:12,240
Speaker 2: use Letterboxed the film website, you can find us there

1810
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 2: as well as Weird House and that's just dedicated to

1811
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema. We have a nice list there of

1812
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 2: all the movies we've covered over the years, and sometimes

1813
01:38:19,280 --> 01:38:20,719
Speaker 2: a peek ahead of what comes up next.

1814
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,879
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1815
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1816
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1817
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello.

1818
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:33,639
Speaker 3: You can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1819
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1820
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1821
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1822
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.