1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I am Akshatrati. This week Al Gore 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: on the climate reyseet. Last week at COPP, I had 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: the great privilege of speaking with former US Vice President 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: Al Gore on the big themes blocking progress on climate action. 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: We are publishing that conversation in two parts. If you 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: haven't already listened to the first part, please do so. 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: It's in your feed and linked in the show notes. 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: If you aren't subscribed to Zero, Now onto part two. 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: In today's episode, we will discuss Vice President's attempts to 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: reform the COP process, what it means to be a 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: climate realist, how to move more finance to the countries 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: that need it, and how to tackle the tragedy of 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: the horizon. Send me your feedback on Zero pod at 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. Here's part two of my conversation with 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Al Gore, recorded at a line event at Ted Countdown 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: House during COP thirty in Brazil. Now let me come 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: to COP because we are here at COP thirty coming 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: into this COP there's so much discussion about logistics in 19 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: this place, and you know, we've had ten years of 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement, all the things that we needed to 21 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: negotiate have mostly been negotiated. What is this COP going 22 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: to be about? Now we have a clearer idea, there's 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: going to be a discussion around having a roadmap to 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: transition away from fossil fuels, just like we had a 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: roadmap published about getting to one point street trillion dollars 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: in climate finance. A big gap that needs to be sorted. 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: So we're gearing up to something that may become a 28 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: meaningful outcome from this COP. But there is still the 29 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: problem that you highlighted earlier about Saudi Arabia. You know, 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: we talked about the fact that Saudi Arabia in nineteen 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: ninety two and onwards has blocked the voting rules at COP, 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: which means the only way this gets done is through consensus. 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: Any one country can try and stop the proceedings from 34 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: going forward. You were involved in a process to try 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: and reform the court, to try and get a majority 36 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: or a supermajority vote in place. What's progress on that. 37 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: Front, Well, not enough, but yes, you know the history 38 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: of it. Thirty three years and five months ago I 39 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: chaired the US Senate delegation coming here to Brazil for 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: the Earth Summit, and when the treaty was finalized, and 41 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: before it was finally adopted, the question arose, what are 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 2: the rules of procedure going to be? And Saudi Arabia, 43 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: working closely in cooperation with the fossil fuel polluters in 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: the US, objected, and the default procedures became the requirement 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: for a consensus that should change. We should also change 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: the methods by which the host nation of EEL. I mean, 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: how much more of a disaster could that be? We 48 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: still don't know who the host for COP thirty one 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: is going to be because the system that's followed is 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: so whack a doodle. They know who's going to host 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: COP thirty two, but it needs to be changed, and 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: the Secretary General, in my view, should have co responsibility 53 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: for approving the host and the COP presidency. Now I 54 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: love Secretary General Guterres. I think he's a global hero. 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: He doesn't want that power and understand why he doesn't, 56 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: but I think he should have it. And so these 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: reforms ought to be instituted. How's it going? Not as 58 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: well as it should? No, it's because of the same 59 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: procedural difficulties that it's a catch twenty two. The same 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: procedural difficulties that we're facing in the outcome of each 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: COP also impedes the ability to reform the rules. But 62 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: it should, it definitely should be reformed. 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: So one quote that I hear from lots and lots 64 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: of people who've been to COP over the years, especially 65 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: reflecting on the ten years since Paris, is it's the 66 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: best of times, it's the worst of times. That we've 67 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: made progress. We've avoided maybe four and four and a 68 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: half degree celsius of warming, but we're still on track 69 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: for three degrees celsius, maybe two point eight degrees celsius 70 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: of warming. Still too much the next ten years? Are 71 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: you know? This is a decade long problem. We have 72 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: to take it decade by decade. What would ideal COPS 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: look like in the next ten years. 74 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: I think we have to reestablish our ability to reason 75 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: together collectively and to minimize the outsized influence of fossil 76 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 2: fuel polluters. As I've often said, they're way better at 77 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: capturing politicians than capturing emissions, and the size of their 78 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: delegations has increased in each successive COP, and really their 79 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 2: influence is one of the biggest problems of all the 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: fossil fuel industry. Is so large it has become hegemonic 81 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: in every policy vertical, every policy area that affects the 82 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 2: continuation of their business models for as long as possible. 83 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: That really has to change. In the US, we've you know, 84 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: they actually played the key role in a strategic effort 85 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 2: to destabilize American democracy. This story has not been told 86 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: as well and as often as it should be. But 87 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 2: you know where the Tea Party began to disrupt the 88 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: process when Obama the first month of his presidency. Where 89 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: did that come from? Well, the copyright and the establishment 90 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: of that organization was a combination of the Koch Brothers, 91 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: the largest private fossil fuel company in the US, and 92 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: Exon Mobile. Exon Mobil was one of the biggest contributors 93 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: to establishing the Tea Party. And now with the advent 94 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: of social media, we see a huge asymmetry in the 95 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: amount and quality of communication going to publics from the 96 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: polluters compared to the communication from advocates of creating a healthy, sustainable, 97 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: prosperous future for all all the people, and that really 98 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: has to has to change. A second inflection point was 99 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: when there was a Supreme Court decision a few years 100 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: later called Citizens United and what that did was it 101 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: legalized unlimited anonymous corporate donations to politicians in the US. 102 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: As the old line goes, what could go wrong, Well, 103 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: we've seen what can go wrong, and we really have 104 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: to to address the democracy crisis as part of our 105 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: strategy for addressing the climate crisis. You know, at a 106 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: time of even worse crisis in my country, our greatest 107 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: President Abraham Lincoln said, the occasion is piled high with difficulty, 108 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 2: and we must rise with the occasion, as our cases knew. 109 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: So we must think anew and then we will save 110 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: our country. That applies in the US, and it applies 111 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: in the global dialogue about how we're going to solve 112 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: this climate crisis and the larger ecological crisis affecting nature 113 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: as well as the climate alone. And it is a 114 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: challenge for those of us who are privileged to be 115 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: alive in this time of choosing. You will, I hope 116 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: be able to tell your grandchildren I was there, I 117 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: stood up when it mattered this. I'm here, by the way, 118 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: not just to do this interview. I respect you so much, Oxshot, 119 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: but I'm here to recruit you. We need more help. 120 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: We need everybody to stand up and be involved in 121 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: this struggle. So much is at stake. We can win this. 122 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: We are winning it over time, but we are not 123 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: winning it fast enough to avoid some very dangerous tipping points. 124 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: I was with Professor Tim Linton from the University of 125 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: Exeter yesterday, a long long time friend of Johann Rockstrom, 126 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: who has developed some of Tim's ideas. These tipping points 127 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: are not just an abstract matter. They're extremely dangerous and 128 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: we are reckless in continuing to use the sky as 129 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: an open sewer. And for those of you may not 130 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: be familiar with the basics, you know we're putting one 131 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five million tons of global warming pollution, 132 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 2: man made global pollution into the sky every single day, 133 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 2: using it as an open sewer. That thin blue line 134 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: you sometimes see from pictures in space is a thin 135 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 2: blue shell surrounding the planet. It's so thin. If you 136 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: could drive a car straight up in the air at 137 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: highway speeds, you get to the top of it in 138 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: five to seven minutes. That's how thin it is. Is 139 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: blue because that's where the oxygen is, and we're using 140 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: it as an open sewer, and the what we're spewing 141 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: into it stays there quite a long time. On average, 142 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: you average them all out about one hundred years per molecule, 143 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: and so the accumulated amount today traps as much extra 144 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: heat as would be released by seven hundred and fifty 145 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: thousand first generation Heirosima class atomic bombs exploding all over 146 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: the world every single day. It is insane for us 147 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: to allow that to continue. And why don't we stop it? 148 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: Because those who are profiting from it have captured so 149 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: much of the political systems and so many of the 150 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: political systems in the world that the politicians who are captured, 151 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 2: when they say jump, they say, yes, sir, how high 152 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: they're under the thumb of the polluters. And it is 153 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: time for the people of this And it's hard to 154 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: do because, again going back to an earlier exchange, our 155 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: ability to reason together collectively has also been distorted by 156 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 2: all these bots that are used to magnify and amplify 157 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: and multiply the polluters messages. We have to break free 158 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: of this now. The good news is there are now 159 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: some grassroots developments of alternative ways of reasoning together. You've 160 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: seen it in my country in the No Kings movement. 161 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: You've seen it in places like Taiwan and Estonia, where 162 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: internet based systems with integrity that allow people to really 163 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: connect on the level of reason. They it can work, 164 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: but we have got to put our heart and soul 165 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: into making it work now. 166 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: I have spoken to lots of activists who have said 167 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: that they've become climate activists because they've watched either your 168 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: movies or have heard you speak through the climate reality. 169 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: But sure very nice. I often say that if it 170 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: hadn't been for me, we might have a big problem 171 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: right now. 172 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: And you continue to do that work. What are lessons 173 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: that you've learned that you can give to other people 174 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: so that this message can be scaled up. 175 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: Well, most of what I have learned has come from 176 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: other people. I get energy from the activists, and I 177 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: see a bunch of them here in this group. That's 178 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: where a lot of my energy and drive comes from. 179 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: I've learned, and I often say this that we have 180 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: the technologies we need, we have the deployment models. They're 181 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: proven to be successful. And for those who say we 182 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 2: don't have enough political will, political will is itself a 183 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 2: renewable resource. We have to renew political will. We have 184 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: to solve the democracy crisis in order to solve the 185 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: climate crisis. 186 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: So we've we're solving one problem at a time. We 187 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: talked about government, we talked about COP, we talked about politics. 188 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: I want to come to finance because that's also something 189 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: that you work on, you think about. You know, last 190 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: time you corrected me for the many billions of dollars 191 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: that Generation Investment Management that you co founded has under access. 192 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: You should tell us. 193 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: How much of business now, no, no go ahead. 194 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: It's that they billion dollars or more. And one of 195 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: the things that has happened, and we've talked about here 196 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: at COP, is that we need more finance to come 197 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: to these climate solutions. But just like the politics has 198 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: gone sour on on right wing parties and on climate policies, 199 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: it's also invaded the financial sphere. There's been a backlash 200 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: on ESG environmental social governance investing that you know, Generation 201 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: has done great work on what is it that you 202 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: think can make this work? Because one of the ways 203 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: in which people had thought, if the politics doesn't work, 204 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: at least rational investors will see the climate damages, we'll 205 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: see the opportunities in the technologies, will see the future 206 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: and invest in those. But no, we are nowhere close 207 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: to private capital coming to the scale at which we 208 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: need the solution. 209 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw your Ted talk or Ted Countdown talk, 210 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 2: and you gave the audience a choice between burn capitalism 211 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: or burn coal. Very clever. I agree with you that 212 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: it's not fundamentally capitalism itself. It's the problem, but it's 213 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: the form of capitalism that we have. And I'll give 214 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: you a specific example that illustrates this problem. You talked 215 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 2: about the future. A great science fiction writer, William Gibson 216 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: once said the future is already here, it's just not 217 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: evenly distributed. And I think the same thing is true 218 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: for climate solutions. They're here, they work, they're cheaper, better, 219 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: create three times as many jobs as money spent on old, 220 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: dirty fossil fiels. It's already here, but they're not evenly distributed. 221 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: And they're not evenly distributed because the hegemonic economic system 222 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: that the world follows is a blend of capitalism and 223 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: government policies. And as you say, people are very important, 224 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: but people have to you know, public sentiment. I'll plug 225 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: that right in there again. But the system for allocating 226 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: access to private capital is fundamentally broken and needs to 227 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: be fixed. The good news is there are a lot 228 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: of people working on fixing them. Let me give you 229 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: some examples. First of all, if you look at the 230 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: statistic globally last year, if you look at all the 231 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: new electricity generation installed worldwide, ninety three percent was renewable, 232 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: mostly solar and win But where did the money for 233 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: that come from? That's the question. Seventy five percent of 234 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: all the money that resulted in that massive change came 235 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: from private investors and lenders, but only eighteen percent of 236 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: it of the total went to developing nations. Take the 237 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: example of Africa. Africa is a giant continent. It has 238 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 2: fewer solar panels than the single state of Florida. That's 239 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: a disgrace for anybody who's looking for a global system 240 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: that works. Africa has sixty percent of the prime solar 241 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: resources of the entire world, but only two percent of 242 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: the climate finance that to install the solar panels and 243 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: the microgrids or grids and batteries. That has to change. 244 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: Why is there this crisis in misallocation? Well, because the 245 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: system now this public private hybrid with the balance on 246 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: the private side. The risk perceived in developing countries is 247 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: dominated by concerns about sudden currency valuation, continued access to 248 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: courts for the enforcement of contracts, continuity of government in 249 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: some cases, corruption, et cetera. And so private investors and 250 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: lenders don't feel safe in saying to their clients, well, 251 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: you know we're gonna put a huge amount of money 252 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: in country. Why in the developing world, even though the 253 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: risk you're going to lose all your money is way 254 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: way higher. They can pay eighteen percent interest rates, So 255 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: you can't build a solar farm with eighteen percent in 256 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: interest rates. So this has to be a j bong 257 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: at the World Bank. I'm a big fan of a 258 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: jay and the other MDBs are trying to fix this problem, 259 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: but we need better solutions to it. I've just met 260 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: with the Green Climate Fund, I've met with a lot 261 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: of people on this issue here in Berlin and last 262 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: week in Sound Pollow. There are great efforts underway, but 263 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: we need to do more to make this access available. Essentially, 264 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: the solution is to have a so called first loss 265 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 2: security so that these extra layers of risk at the 266 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: top of the capital stack and transactions with developing countries 267 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: don't have to be borne by the lender or the 268 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: investor that they have some reassurance that if that happens, 269 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: they won't be held liable. There also needs to be 270 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: a more accurate perception of what those real risks are. 271 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: That's why some of the African countries have lashed out 272 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: at the three oligarchic ratings agencies. You know, as soon 273 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: as the pandemic hit, they raised the risk levels and 274 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 2: interest rates and all over Africa. Why it was irrational, 275 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: but it was, you know, the frightened of their shadow 276 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: Moody's and Fitch and so forth. And they're trying to 277 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: create their own ratings agency. Good luck with that. I 278 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: hope that they can. But we have to fix this 279 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: problem of unequal access to private capital. Private capital is 280 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: the mainstay of how we're going to solve this has 281 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: to be allocated correctly. 282 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: Are there examples from generation investment management where you see 283 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: that kind of unlocking that can happen and others can replicate. 284 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: Well, yes, First of all, if you have a more 285 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: accurate perception of what the real risk is, and if 286 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: you have local partners who have deep expertise in helping 287 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: to mitigate those risks, that can be one way. And 288 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: if you have partners who are willing to allocate capital 289 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 2: based on their success full experience elsewhere in the developing world. 290 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: That's one way to do it, and if you pick 291 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: the opportunity. Picking the opportunities correctly is the mainstay. We 292 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: have an office in Soundpollo now. This is the center 293 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: of our natural climate solutions business for our just climate product, 294 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 2: which looks at long term hard to abate sectors. We've 295 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: had some great success with this. It can be done. 296 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: Join us after the break for more of my conversation 297 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: with Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States. 298 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: And if you'd like more from bloombergreen at cop thirty. 299 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: Sign up to our newsletter for daily coverage on the ground. 300 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: Sign up at Bloomberg dot com Forward Slash Newsletters. So 301 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: I want to take you a few months b for 302 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement in London, a central banker gave a 303 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: speech that central banker. 304 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 2: Was not the tragedy of the horizon and the strategy 305 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: of the horizon. 306 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: He's talked about the fact that by the time finances 307 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: that it's in their interest to actually invest in climate solutions, 308 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: it will be too late. So that is remembered by 309 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people. What is not remembered by a 310 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: lot of people, is what he said in the second 311 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: half of the speech, And the second half of the 312 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: speech was about what do we do? And his solution 313 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: was that we need to get people to understand the 314 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: risk of climate change, that we'll have companies who have 315 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: to disclose their climate related financial risks. Once we do that, 316 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: we'll have investors making rational choices. We are living in 317 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: McCartney's world today. The twenty four thousand companies that disclose 318 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: emissions data. There are thousands of companies in places like UK, Europe, 319 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: New Zealand who are regulated to disclose that information, and 320 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: yet the allocation of capital has not moved at the 321 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: base at which the climate risk the climate science tells us. 322 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: How do we break that problem and how do we 323 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: get ahead and actually make investors put the money in 324 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: the right places? 325 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: Well, that is one of the reasons why six years 326 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 2: ago I co founded with a scientist named Gavin McCormick, 327 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 2: the Climate Trace Coalition. It's one hundred and sixty five nonprofits, universities, 328 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 2: research institutions, scientists NGOs that all work together and have 329 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 2: identified every significant point source emission site in the world, 330 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: not just the ones that disclose on their own. If 331 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: you have a few of the disclosed and you don't 332 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 2: know what the rest of the universe is, then it 333 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: limits the value of the ones that do disclose. We 334 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 2: now track constantly seven hundred and forty five million point 335 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: source emission sites, essentially ninety nine percent of all the 336 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: emissions in the world. We publish monthly reports climatetrace dot org. 337 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: Climate trace is one word dot org. It's all free. 338 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 2: We just did our last monthly report. We have now 339 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 2: also included the copollution, the PM two point five, the 340 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 2: conventional pollution soot, which kills an estimated eight point seven 341 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: million people every year from lung and hard diseases from 342 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 2: breathing in all this pollution, and many people have become 343 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 2: kind of inured to it, used to it. But now 344 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 2: we will show you the plumes in thousands of cities 345 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: around the world exactly where the pollution, that pollution is 346 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: coming from, where it's going depending on the meteorological conditions. 347 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: We'll soon have every city in the world, and we'll 348 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: soon have it soon as probably two years on having 349 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: a daily periodicity. But my hope is that it will 350 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: be available to all local weather TV weather forecasters and 351 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 2: internet weather so that if you look at whether radar 352 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: to see where the coal front or where the storm is, 353 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: you'll also see where the pollution plumes that day are. 354 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: And if your kid has asthma or you have a 355 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: family member that's coughing more and you look on the 356 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: website or see it on TV, then the opportunity to 357 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: build coalitions between public health groups, budget conscious groups that 358 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: see the rise in health expenditures, and the climate community 359 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: all together, then that can give us a much greater 360 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 2: chance to transition away from the combustion of fossil fuels, 361 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 2: because when you get rid of it, transition away from it, 362 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: you're getting rid of that conventional pollution that's killing so 363 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: many people, and at the same time you're getting rid 364 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: of the global warming pollution that's creating this big threat 365 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 2: to the future of humanity. 366 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: Now that i've mentioned McCartney, it's ahead. There's a question 367 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: I have to ask about McCartney because you know, McCartney 368 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: has been a UN Climate champion. You know, we have 369 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: a world leader in a G seven country was a 370 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: UN Climate champion before he had to give up to 371 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: take on his Prime ministership in Canada. But the first 372 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: thing he does when he comes in is gets rid 373 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: of a consumer carbon tax. Just last week they had 374 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: a budget come out in which they've gotten rid of 375 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: the oil and gas cap that they were going to 376 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: institute that Trudeau had passed previously. And it's not like 377 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: we don't have climate leaders in places of power today. 378 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: Claudia Shinbaum is a very good example in Mexico, a climatetastic, 379 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: fantastic leader. 380 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: And yet and look at her new DC. 381 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and yet the policies currently aren't going in 382 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: anywhere close to the pace at which you know she 383 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: would understand the science demands action. So there is this 384 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: conversation a lot of people are talking about, we need 385 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: a reset, We need to think about where are baselines 386 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: on what we can actually achieve needs to happen. You've 387 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: read the Bill Gates memo. Climate reality nowadays is being 388 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: referred to as we can't reach one point five degrees celsius. 389 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: Let's think about what else can we do on this problem? 390 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: What is your answer to these new ideas on resetting 391 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the conversation, changing our baseline, getting rid of the one 392 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: point five degree Celsia's goal, and aiming for something more real. 393 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the so called climate realism, which they don't 394 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: mean it in a sarcastic way, but it's the way 395 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: I hear it. If you want to know my full 396 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 2: response to that, go to the TED countdown site and 397 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: if you pull up box shots video. The next up 398 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: in line will be my video from Nairobi last year 399 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: where I did a whole slideshow. It's just on this, 400 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: This so called climate realism movement is deeply cynical. It 401 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: is another Saudi Arabia led project. By the way, because 402 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 2: after COP twenty eight, After COP twenty eight, when UAE 403 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: and Doctor Sultan, I was very critical of a lot 404 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: of what they did, but I applaud what he and 405 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: his chief of staff Modjut did in getting the final 406 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: document to commit every nation in the world to transition 407 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: away from fossil fuels. That was a genuine achievement. Barely 408 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: one month later, my friend, he really is a friend, 409 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 2: I mean Naser, the CEO of a Saudi aramco, said 410 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 2: that is a fantasy. Soon Exon Mobil was saying the 411 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 2: same thing. Soon the other Petro states were saying the 412 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: same thing. And it gets back to their hegemonic power 413 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 2: in every policy vertical that affects their business models. They 414 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: have used the captured politics that do whatever they tell 415 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: them to do, no matter their prior convictions, and they 416 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: have pushed this narrative all around the world. Now they 417 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: have an opponent in this narrative that is more powerful 418 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: than they are, and that is Mother Nature. And you 419 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 2: mentioned Bill Gates this. I almost felt sorry for him 420 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 2: because the same day that he put out that thing, 421 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: the same day the Lancet commissioned by far the most 422 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 2: respected global voice on health, reiterated that climate and health 423 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: are are intertwined. And the World Health Organization has been 424 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 2: telling us over and over again that the number one 425 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: threat to health in the world is the climate crisis. 426 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 2: It's not just the eight point seven million people that 427 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 2: are killed every year by the co pollution. It's the 428 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: heat and humidity in It's the movement of tropical diseases 429 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 2: to the higher latitudes north and south, and especially in 430 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: the northern hemisphere. We have one hundred new varieties of 431 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: ticks in the United States in the last twenty years, 432 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 2: some caring diseases I never heard of before in my life. 433 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: We're seeing also some very dangerous changes in fungi that 434 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: have never been a threat to human beings. The list, unfortunately, 435 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 2: is a very long one. Now, I want to call 436 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: your attention to a very healthful statement Tedro's just yesterday saying, 437 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: and this is one useful thing that can come out 438 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: of Bill's unfortunate, kind of silly statement. But Tedro said, 439 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: you know, we should have a track in these cops 440 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: that focus on climate and health, and I strongly agree 441 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: with that. That is the main reason why Climate Trace 442 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: has implemented the tracking of these copollution plumes. We are 443 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: now our coalition members are now collecting and codifying the 444 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: hospital admissions and other health statistics in the areas under 445 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: the plumes compared to the areas on either side of 446 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 2: the plumes. So yes, I think that we can and 447 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: should do more on health. And but the idea of 448 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: taking the money away from from a climate is is uh, 449 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: you know really some to some people was surprising to 450 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: hear them say that. It was shocking to a lot 451 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: of people. Here's here's a place that I think we 452 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: could find a lot of money for for health. Why 453 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: not take it from all of the government subsidies for 454 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: fossil fuels that are still going on. You know there, there, 455 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: there are, there are, There's a long list of nations 456 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: because they've been captured by the fossil fuel polluters, their 457 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: lobbyists and their campaign contributions and and more. They spend 458 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: more on fossil fuel subsidies than they do on healthcare. 459 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: There are a lot of countries that's been twice as 460 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: much on fossil subsidies as on healthcare. Why not get 461 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: it from there? And anyway, you've triggered me again. 462 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: Last question. Yeah, you're seventy seven. You're younger than the 463 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: current US president. There's an election coming up in twenty 464 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: twenty eight. 465 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 466 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: Your speech is still hid the same vein. Yeah. 467 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you should ask this because I've 468 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: been sensing a rising demand for another septuagenarian candidate. But 469 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: thank you for the thought. 470 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: Will you run? 471 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: Well? You know, if this rising demand becomes unstoppable, you know, 472 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: who are the. 473 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: Leaders we should be looking for in the US who 474 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: could take on what you. 475 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: Know, at this stage of the election process, in the 476 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: cycle where Barack Obama was elected, nobody had ever heard 477 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: the name Barack Obama. 478 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: I have. 479 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: I've been extremely impressed with a lot of young members 480 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 2: of the Senate and the House, some governors. I think 481 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: that this is a prize. The Democratic nomination for president 482 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight is going to be a prize 483 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 2: worth having, and you're going to see an extremely vigorous 484 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: competition from which I would predict that a very strong 485 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: new voice will emerge. You know, when a political party 486 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 2: in the US doesn't control the White House or the Congress, 487 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: the courts, they seem effeckless and impotent. I've seen times 488 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: when the Republican Party was in that position, was the 489 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: same kind of thing. But once there is a nominee, 490 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: then that person man or woman becomes the face and 491 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: voice of the party and gives a new direction to 492 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 2: the party, which is by definition going to be popular 493 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: because they've been chosen as the nominee. So be of 494 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 2: good cheer. The sun will rise in the morning. We 495 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: sometimes overreact to an election that goes the way we 496 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 2: don't want it to, and sometimes we overreact when an 497 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 2: election goes the right way too. The democracy is a continuous, 498 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: ongoing effort. It has to be defended and won and 499 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: revitalized again in every generation. I believe that what we 500 00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 2: saw in the elections last week brings some real incurbentrid. 501 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: There are a lot of people out there who are 502 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: just damn fed up with this craziness that they're seeing 503 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: every single day in this White House. Not everyone's of 504 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: the same mind, of course, I understand, but his approval 505 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: levels are the lowest they've ever been. He now is 506 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 2: in a lame duck status. The competition in the Republican 507 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: Party for their nomination is already beginning. That they're scared 508 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: to death to offend him, of course, because he'll tweet 509 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 2: them away or something. But you're going to see a 510 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 2: resorting of this process unfold as this year continues, and 511 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: there's going to be another vote next week that may 512 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 2: have some real significance. We may be surprised by how 513 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 2: many Republicans join that vote. So I don't know. I 514 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: would just caution against. You know, they used to say 515 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: denial a just a river in Egypt. Well, despair aing 516 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: just to tire in the turn. It's a it's a 517 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 2: real problem. Don't let yourself fall into despair. We can 518 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: do this, We will do this. We have to do 519 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: it faster and stronger. I'm encouraged most of all by 520 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: the energy and passion and enthusiasm from people like those 521 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: of you here, people who are are parts of these 522 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 2: groups that attend the cop This is going to happen. 523 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 2: This is emerging as the largest global grassroots movement in 524 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: the history of the world. It is widely distributed. I'm 525 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 2: telling you there is passion in every single one of 526 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: the one hundred and ninety five countries around the world. 527 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 2: There's a generational change as well. You look at the 528 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: polls on all of these questions and compare people of 529 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: you know, my generation or even your generation with the 530 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: opinions and the passions of the younger generation. We are 531 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 2: going want to bring change. I am confident of it. 532 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 2: But again I want you to be a part of it. 533 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 2: I'm here to recruit you, and I say this to 534 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: those who are watching on on TED countdown. Let's do this. 535 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: Thank you. 536 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: Let me say one last thing. The SCRUD is going 537 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: to hear from Kim Stanley Robinson shortly later today, and 538 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: he said, the thing to aim for, the greater thing 539 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: to aim for is not abundance, but adequacy. Say that again, 540 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: the thing to aim for is not abundance but adequacy. 541 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: Oh with that, thank you your adequacy. 542 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thank you, Thank you all for coming. 543 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Zero. If you've not heard 544 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: the first part of my conversation with Vice President Al Gore, 545 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: look for it in your podcast feeds. If you liked 546 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: this episode, please take a moment to rate and review 547 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. This episode was 548 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: produced by Oscar Boyd with the help from the team 549 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: at ted Coundon House Our Them. Music is composed by 550 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: Wonderly Special Thanks to Soamersadi Moses andam Laura Milan and 551 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: Sharon chan I am Akshatrati. Back soon.