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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and California will negotiate trade with other

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Speaker 1: countries to bypass Trump's tariffs. That's incredible stuff. We have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. The Center for

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Speaker 1: American Progress is near a Tanbin stops by to talk

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Speaker 1: about how Trump just can't stop winning and by winning

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Speaker 1: we mean we are all losing. Of course I'm joking.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to New Mexico Senator Martin Heinrich about

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Speaker 1: being a voice in the darkness for people who are

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Speaker 1: worried and how Democrats can do more of that. Then

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Speaker 1: we have a special bonus from our fabulous YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: with economist and friend of mine Justin Wolfers, who will

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Speaker 1: explain to us why tariffs have devastated the public markets.

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Speaker 2: But first the news, Molly, almost ten trillion dollars of

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Speaker 2: stock value has been wiped out since inauguration day. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we're requit this right before the closing bill. We may

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Speaker 2: get to the ten trillion. We're winning. We're fucking winning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are winning.

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Speaker 1: So all of you people who voted for Trump because

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Speaker 1: you thought he'd be good for the economy. Ha ha

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Speaker 1: ha ha ha. We're all laughing all the way to

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Speaker 1: the poorhouse. US stock market has wiped out nine point

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Speaker 1: six trillion dollars since inauguration day. Stocks have had a

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Speaker 1: rough go of it since Donald Trump was sworn into

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Speaker 1: office for the second term. You know why that is

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Speaker 1: because his policies suck. He's bad at this. He's not

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Speaker 1: very smart. He's obsessed with tariffs, and he's ruining the economy.

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Speaker 1: We're about to go into a trade war. Everything is

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Speaker 1: so stupid. Major equity indexes have seen their losses deep in.

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Speaker 3: So Donald Trump goes to the Rose Garden.

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Speaker 1: He makes an insane speech which includes the word boom

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Speaker 1: four times. Okay, the economy will go boom, and fyi,

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Speaker 1: it went boom.

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Speaker 3: It just didn't go boom.

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Speaker 1: Quite the way he wanted to. The SMP down thousands

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Speaker 1: of points. Everything is down, down, down down, and fyi,

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Speaker 1: there is no plan here right like this is tariffs,

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Speaker 1: which will be met by other countries putting in more tariffs,

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Speaker 1: which will be met by a trade war, which will

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Speaker 1: make everything more expensive.

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Speaker 3: You're welcome.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump doesn't know how tariffs were so here we

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Speaker 1: are good news. If you live in California, you may

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Speaker 1: not be subjected to the terror because everything is insane

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Speaker 1: and he's retruthing things that say he's purposefully crushing the market,

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Speaker 1: which does not inspire confidence in the market.

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Speaker 3: Molly, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, there were already people in Trump's administration

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Speaker 1: muse about whether or not they were going to go

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Speaker 1: into a recession.

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Speaker 3: This is something presidents never do.

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Speaker 1: Members of administration never do this, you know why, because

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Speaker 1: they don't want a recession, so they usually don't sort

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Speaker 1: of sit around and go like, maybe we might have

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Speaker 1: a recession, but who knows. So look, this is stupid, pointless,

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Speaker 1: bad for the country, bad for everyone. I do not

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Speaker 1: think Donald Trump is intentionally crashing the markets because he

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Speaker 1: loves carnage. But I do think that he's incompetent and

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Speaker 1: kind of delusional.

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Speaker 3: And there are no grown ups in the room.

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Speaker 1: So listen, Gary Cohen, if you're listening to this, come back,

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Speaker 1: come back, Gary Cohen. We need you to talk some

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Speaker 1: sense into Donald Trump before we all are living under

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Speaker 1: a bridge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the other word that you could

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Speaker 2: have added in there is Trump is also careless, which

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Speaker 2: is why he retweets things like that, because what he

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Speaker 2: sees is the thing that says Trump is playing chess

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Speaker 2: while everyone else is playing checkers. Anyway, to go along

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Speaker 2: with that ten trillion dollars of wealth wiped out, the

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Speaker 2: new projected cost of his tax cuts for the rich

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Speaker 2: are seven trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, good luck getting them passed, right Like so,

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Speaker 1: last time Trump did tax cuts and then some tariffs.

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Speaker 1: This time Trump is doing tariffs with the hopes that

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Speaker 1: it will drive Republicans to do tax cuts.

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Speaker 3: I think it's going to be tough.

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Speaker 1: Right now, all of a sudden, we have senators freaking

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Speaker 1: out about the tariffs. We have real staunch Republicans. They

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Speaker 1: weren't freaked out by RFK putting an anti vaxxer in

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Speaker 1: charge of HSS.

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Speaker 3: They weren't freaked out.

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Speaker 1: By all of the fucked up things that Trump did,

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Speaker 1: right like putting cash battel and in char to the FBI,

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Speaker 1: or putting Pam Bondy as head of the DOJ. These

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Speaker 1: things they were fine with, right putting I mean Tulsei

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Speaker 1: Gabbarn in the nowtional Security Organization. No, the thing that

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Speaker 1: got them upset was crashing the markets. Look, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: we'll take it. But I think Donald Trump's about to

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Speaker 1: have real problems passing these tax cuts because this is

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Speaker 1: the only leverage that sane people have. So I think,

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Speaker 1: I actually think this may end up being You'll be

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Speaker 1: shocked to hear this, but yet another unforced error in

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Speaker 1: a administration filled with unforced errors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. So my Twitter was ablaze this morning with

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Speaker 2: a poll, which is not normally a thing that you

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Speaker 2: see happening around the first week of April after a

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Speaker 2: new administration comes in. But the poll said that AOC

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Speaker 2: leads Chuck Schumer in the primary by almost twenty points.

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Speaker 2: What are you seeing here? Because I think there's some

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Speaker 2: things we should discuss.

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Speaker 1: So this is a poll from Data for Progress, and

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Speaker 1: I like to think of Data for Progress's things.

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Speaker 2: Jesse and I like, yes, that they tend to be

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Speaker 2: quote syst the lines to our worldview as far as

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Speaker 2: polsters go, right.

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Speaker 1: They are sort of the rest mutant of the left. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a fair amount of wish casting, and for that

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Speaker 1: reason they are actually ranked as a C.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should say they had some very questionable practices

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Speaker 2: around with their pollingue for Elizabeth Ward's presidential CAMPI and

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Speaker 2: they were called out for that did not look very

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Speaker 2: good upon.

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Speaker 1: Review and polls. Pollsters are ranked from ABC. So C

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Speaker 1: is really as bad. I mean, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you can get worse than C.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't happen much if you can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's seven hundred and sixty seven likely voters.

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Speaker 1: That's another thing, likely voters versus registered voters. So you

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Speaker 1: know I would do with this what you will. The

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Speaker 1: point I think is that voters are mad. We hear

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Speaker 1: this again and again. They're mad. They feel that Democrats

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Speaker 1: are not represented them the way they want to be represented.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of anger towards Schumer. Whether or

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Speaker 1: not he could have done anything by the time the

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Speaker 1: CR got around to him is an open question, but

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Speaker 1: there certainly is a lot of feeling that he should

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Speaker 1: have done something. And so I think there are real

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Speaker 1: things to take away from this poll, even if this

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Speaker 1: poll is not a straight line between this and what

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Speaker 1: actually will happen.

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Speaker 2: Agreed, this was an interesting thing that your husband shared

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Speaker 2: with us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we got a text from Macreenfield. Yes, go on.

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Speaker 2: How many lives does US foreign aid save?

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Speaker 3: It saves a lot of lives in fact.

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Speaker 1: When I was on the phone talking to Macreenfield this afternoon,

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Speaker 1: he was musing about whether or not Donald Trump will

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Speaker 1: have indirectly led to the deaths with the secession of

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Speaker 1: foreign aid.

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Speaker 3: More deaths than Paul pot So three million.

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Speaker 1: Three million people will die because the Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: Is ending for an aid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not good.

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Speaker 1: If killing people is bad, then they don't want to

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Speaker 1: be good. And it's people in East and Southern Africa, Nigeria.

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Speaker 1: They'll die of preventable diseases, They'll die of malnutrition, they'll

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Speaker 1: die of hunger. It's a pretty dark way to go.

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Speaker 1: And it's all happening because very wealthy people want to

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Speaker 1: pay fewer taxes. You're at Tandon as the president of

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Speaker 1: the Center for American Progress. Welcome to Fast Politics near

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Speaker 1: A Tandon.

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Speaker 4: Great to be with you.

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Speaker 1: We're at the I Told you so moment in Trump's

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Speaker 1: second term, where he's doing all the stuff that we

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Speaker 1: all knew he was going to do, and people are like,

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Speaker 1: oh new, I'm making hand gestures to express my displeasure.

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Speaker 3: I don't actually get a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of pleasure out of being right. I would have rather

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Speaker 1: been happy discuss.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess I'm in the space of like, I

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Speaker 5: think it's totally fine for us to be individually outraged

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Speaker 5: that our fellow Americans decided to vote for someone who

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Speaker 5: advertised again again, I mean, who advertises going to basically

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Speaker 5: do these tariffs that if you had thought about it

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Speaker 5: for a second, you might think, oh, that could like

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Speaker 5: take our economy and like headed into a gigantic like wall. Right,

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Speaker 5: So I understand the anger, but I also think, look,

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Speaker 5: there are a bunch of people who don't play that

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Speaker 5: pay that much attention. There are a bunch of people

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Speaker 5: who don't pay that much attention to politics who also thought, oh,

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Speaker 5: you know, his first term, he said all this shit

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Speaker 5: and nothing really bad happened, and they didn't really like

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Speaker 5: process that he was going to systematically get rid of

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Speaker 5: every single guardrail. Understand how like we're all angry. I'm

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Speaker 5: definitely angry that, like, I'm in a country where people

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Speaker 5: voted to kind of do all this damage. But I think, honestly,

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Speaker 5: you know, politics's addition, not subtraction, and we have to

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Speaker 5: welcome converts.

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Speaker 4: Even if you want.

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Speaker 5: To basically say why were you such an asshole, it's

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Speaker 5: actually better to say I'm glad you've come over now

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Speaker 5: I totally get like, it's not it's not like the

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Speaker 5: just the tariffs. It's like the dehumanization of people, the

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Speaker 5: picking people up off the streets. It's enraging. So, I mean,

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Speaker 5: it is a lot to ask of the people who

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Speaker 5: were right.

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Speaker 4: To say, just let's be welcoming.

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Speaker 5: But I still think we kind of have to be

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Speaker 5: welcoming because the most important thing is to build like

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Speaker 5: a gigantic majority against this monstrosity.

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Speaker 3: No, And I think that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: I would also add though, that I mean, we're not

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Speaker 1: even one hundred days into this thing already. You know,

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Speaker 1: the federal government is in tatters, right, The markets are

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Speaker 1: cratering around us. The chance of a recession has gone

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Speaker 1: from thirty to forty to sixty percent, is according to

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase, to those woke liberals over at JP

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Speaker 1: Morgan Chase. And I think, what is the thing that I,

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Speaker 1: as a person who gives a shit about policy, which

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Speaker 1: makes me in the point, oh.

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Speaker 5: Right, I'm going to say one percent? Like you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't know, you live to be so negative, it's.

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Speaker 4: Like a right.

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Speaker 1: And so in my constant quest to relitigate what went wrong,

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Speaker 1: so Biden, I am a big fan of all of

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Speaker 1: the legislation, chips and science. Basically, Biden tried to bring

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Speaker 1: manufacturing back to the United States, which is what Trump

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Speaker 1: is trying to do with these tariffs, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but we just did it in a way that

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Speaker 5: was smart and not totally moronic.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there are certainly people who want to crash the

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Speaker 1: economy and live in the road, right. I don't think

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Speaker 1: Trump is playing three dimensional chests here. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he's trying to crash the economy to enact a tech oligarchy.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he thinks he's doing that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe he is, but I think he thinks he's bringing

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Speaker 1: manufacturing back. I think he thinks that the original sin

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Speaker 1: of American life, which we all know to be slavery,

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Speaker 1: was actually manufacturing and globalism.

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Speaker 4: Right yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean if he thinks that much, but which do not.

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Speaker 1: But the point is I think that because when he

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Speaker 1: talks about, you know, how he's going to be, he

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Speaker 1: thinks he's going to bring manufacturing back. So one of

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Speaker 1: the problems was the Biden administration was that they were

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Speaker 1: not able to communicate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big challenge. Yeah, I hear you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of those incredible policy accomplishments were

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Speaker 1: were not transmitted. Talk to me about sort of the

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Speaker 1: policy that you guys put in place with Chips and

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Speaker 1: Science and some of these stuff to bring back manufacturing

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Speaker 1: where it is now and what it looks like, how

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Speaker 1: it's different than what I'm doing right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, I mean, look, President Biden had a vision which

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Speaker 5: was that we should actually have policies that made America

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Speaker 5: a place where manufacturing could thrive. So we had Chips

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Speaker 5: and Science Act, you had elements of the Inflation Reduction Act,

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Speaker 5: like the big investments in climate and renewables and investments

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Speaker 5: in electric batteries and solar panels and all these things.

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Speaker 5: And the idea of this was that we could basically

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Speaker 5: have an industrial policy which tried to make the United

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Speaker 5: States a place where people want to do business and

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Speaker 5: come in to create things here. And we had huge

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Speaker 5: successes with gigantic plants being built in Upstate New York,

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Speaker 5: Micron and Arizona and Georgia.

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Speaker 4: And I think we should all think.

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Speaker 5: Really seriously about why that didn't translate at the time.

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Speaker 5: And I guess I say, you know, I think this

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Speaker 5: is a little bit of a warning to the Trump

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Speaker 5: administration because the President used you know, smart tariffs where

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Speaker 5: he needed to, particularly with China, because they do have

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Speaker 5: a series of policies where they are kind of preferencing

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Speaker 5: Chinese goods. But you know, had an industrial policy where

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Speaker 5: we're really investing in the United States and we create

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Speaker 5: a lot of jobs. But we also learned that people

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Speaker 5: were very price sensitive. And I know this is like

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Speaker 5: news in the world, like people really care about jobs

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Speaker 5: in the United States. But also, you know, when you

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Speaker 5: know an average family, when people are kind of trying

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Speaker 5: to think about how they make ends meet, they're really

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Speaker 5: thinking about how much things cost, and then what their

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Speaker 5: wages are, and when costs go up through the roof

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Speaker 5: and they outpace their wages, like, it's not crazy that

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Speaker 5: people are angry about that. So what I think is

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Speaker 5: so kind of insane about the moment we're in is

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump said, I have this gigantic criticism of Joe Biden,

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Speaker 5: which is that all the costs up and I'm going

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Speaker 5: to bring a costs down immediately, And then he decided

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Speaker 5: to do this gigantic, insane tariff policy, which you know, okay,

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Speaker 5: let's have criticism of China, but like what do we

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Speaker 5: have against Canada or like most of these Africrican counturies

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Speaker 5: or the island with the penguins, Like the whole thing

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Speaker 5: is kind of nuts.

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Speaker 3: Penguin Island's going and.

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Speaker 5: Then you know, I mean it's like I find it

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Speaker 5: on some levels so hysterical. But honestly, what's happening here

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Speaker 5: is I think honestly President Trump just like bought his

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Speaker 5: own bullshit. I don't think he thinks like the original

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Speaker 5: sin is manufacturing. I think he thinks the original sin

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Speaker 5: is that we like left the eighteen eighties right be

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Speaker 5: essentially measles, but like, you know, his weird expansionist thing

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Speaker 5: to Greenland, and it's like fundamentally, I think he like

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Speaker 5: lives in a world where he just thinks you can

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Speaker 5: use the market power of the United States to just

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Speaker 5: induce everyone to produce here and with this they'll just

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Speaker 5: go to other places, like there are other people who

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Speaker 5: will buy goods and these states, Like I guess to me,

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Speaker 5: the weirdest thing about the whole moment we're in, honestly,

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Speaker 5: which goes back to the first issue of like how

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Speaker 5: do we get here? Is the President's policies are a

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Speaker 5: gigantic sucking sound on like the money that working class

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Speaker 5: people have and are driving it to the wealthiest people

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Speaker 5: in America because ess visually, he just has this tariff

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Speaker 5: policy where we all pay basically a sales tack. It's

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Speaker 5: on everything, like a variable sales stacks on all goods.

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Speaker 5: And he has a massive through reconciliation through this budget

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Speaker 5: gimmick system, he's doing gigantic tax cuts for the super rich.

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Speaker 5: And I know there's a lot of kind of shit

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Speaker 5: going on all the time, but like, if we just

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Speaker 5: actually focus on the giant wealth transfer between working class

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Speaker 5: people and the richest Americans, it is. It is the

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Speaker 5: biggest drive towards massive inequality in my leftime.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we saw with Trump, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the weave. Now, Trump communicated

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Speaker 1: so much he had weave, and he would say one

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Speaker 1: word bacon, and bacon would get his people to know

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Speaker 1: that he was talking about the price of eggs, so right,

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Speaker 1: that things were too expensive. They're upset about inflation. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of these people sad. Again you can argue

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Speaker 1: whether or not it was true, but they said they

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Speaker 1: were voting for him because of the price of eggs.

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Speaker 1: What he's doing now will make everything more expensive discuss.

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Speaker 5: I know, we went through a liberal panic earlier this

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Speaker 5: week that he's going to go for a third term,

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Speaker 5: And I personally think all this third term talk is

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Speaker 5: just his strategy not to be lame ducked. He's a

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Speaker 5: lame duck, honestly, and he doesn't want anyone to think

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Speaker 5: he's a lame duck.

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Speaker 4: So he did says kind of crazy stuff all the time.

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Speaker 5: But like, the biggest evidence that he's not going to

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Speaker 5: run for reelection is the fact that he is like

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Speaker 5: happily tanking the economy for a vision that no normal

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Speaker 5: person in America thinks is like actually achievable. And I

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Speaker 5: don't think his own people think, like are they super

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Speaker 5: hyper focused on I'll do bringing back clothing manufactory or

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Speaker 5: clothing protection go into the United States.

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Speaker 4: You know, people are.

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Speaker 5: Really focused on the cost of things, and so I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's like a gigantic bait and switch. But my experience

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Speaker 5: with people is like when you bit and switch them,

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Speaker 5: they do tend to get angrier. The presence disapproval on

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Speaker 5: the economy has been the highest of any issue. It's

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Speaker 5: the inverse of where he was in his first term,

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Speaker 5: and the first term his economic numbers were the highest

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Speaker 5: of all of his numbers, and people kind of personally

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Speaker 5: disapproved of him.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 5: You know, his job approval is dropping and I imagine

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Speaker 5: will drop more next week, but his economic numbers are

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Speaker 5: the worst, and honestly, I think he just doesn't care

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Speaker 5: like I guess. My take on this is he does

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Speaker 5: not think normal politics of plastin.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 5: You could say that means he's going to throw out

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Speaker 5: the elections, or my own take is more likely he's

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Speaker 5: not going to run for reelection. But either way, the

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Speaker 5: really really dangerous moment we're in, which you know, does

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Speaker 5: scare me.

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Speaker 4: The things that keep me up at night are are

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Speaker 4: the fact that we have a.

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Speaker 5: President of the United States who is not limited by anything,

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Speaker 5: and that just means it calls on all of us

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Speaker 5: to stand up a lot more.

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Speaker 3: So that I think gets me to Harris.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, Harris came out and basically said, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of cowardice here, which I think she's

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Speaker 1: pretty careful. She's not a person who acts out of emotion,

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Speaker 1: at least not what I've seen.

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Speaker 3: So the fact that she came.

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Speaker 1: Out at a Bloomberg event and said I'm not seeing

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Speaker 1: people stand up here.

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Speaker 3: I think was meaningful discuss.

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Speaker 5: The thing that is so much worse now than Trump's

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Speaker 5: first term is the pre obeying. And I worry that

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Speaker 5: fear is contagious. So the fact that we have media

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Speaker 5: institutions that are supposed to be the guardians of free

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Speaker 5: information and guardians of democracy, and you know, people who

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Speaker 5: in a democratic administration will lect dress about the right

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Speaker 5: to rights to information. You know, the fact that they're

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Speaker 5: cowering that you know he's basically threatening a news agency,

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Speaker 5: the AP and you don't seem like a walkout from

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Speaker 5: the reporters is just honestly pathetic.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 5: And I have been on my own personal just campaign

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Speaker 5: around Paul Weiss. I was a summer associate at Paul

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Speaker 5: Weiss obviously many many years ago, was a summer associated

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Speaker 5: at Paul White.

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Speaker 7: I wouldn't have said it, but I mean, when the

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Speaker 7: wealthiest lawyers in the world, not like in America, the

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Speaker 7: wealthiest lawyers in the world are cowering and paying off

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Speaker 7: basically mob money to a president who they know is

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Speaker 7: just full of it.

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Speaker 5: And they they're lawyers, so they know these executive actions

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Speaker 5: are illegal, and we can kind of guess they're illegal

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Speaker 5: because every law record it.

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Speaker 1: Tells us that every judge from every administration, five administrations

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Speaker 1: have ruled against them.

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Speaker 5: Yes, judges from five different administrations. I mean the fact

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Speaker 5: that they don't seek the tierro and they just go

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Speaker 5: slobber in front of him.

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Speaker 4: And every time.

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Speaker 5: They do this, we know this from authoritarian regimes all

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Speaker 5: throughout history. Every institution that cowers just makes it worse

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Speaker 5: for the next one. And that's why Paul Ways had

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Speaker 5: to give forty and then Scatton gave a hundred. And

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Speaker 5: I honestly think, and I know there are good people

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Speaker 5: at these law firms, but I just think history asks

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Speaker 5: you in moments to stand up for your principles, and

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Speaker 5: it's like it's an accident. Who has to stand up.

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Speaker 5: It's not really clear ever until you're in that moment.

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Speaker 5: And honestly, I just don't know how people of goodwill are.

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Speaker 5: You know, partners who have power in these law firms

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Speaker 5: are still there. I mean, I just I was like,

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Speaker 5: and I had this conversation real say once with the

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Speaker 5: Pobwoys partner, and I just said, you know your grandkids

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Speaker 5: are going to ask you what you did in this.

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Speaker 4: Moment and what are you going to say? You were

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Speaker 4: going to say?

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Speaker 3: And what did he say?

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Speaker 4: It was?

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Speaker 5: You know, he was like I'm really struggling with that,

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Speaker 5: and I was like, well, not enough. You're not struggling enough, right,

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Speaker 5: Are you struggling enough? Because honestly, like I think there's

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Speaker 5: only one answer to this question, which is if you

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Speaker 5: think democracy is at stake, then you have to like,

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Speaker 5: I'm so sorry, like it will mean you make less money, right.

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Speaker 4: I understand that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very sad, but you eli, will you make

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Speaker 5: like twelve million instead of fifteen million dollars?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's ridiculous, it's very very sad. Sorry, no,

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Speaker 4: I agree. I could just go on and on on this.

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Speaker 5: It's like so enraging to me, Like we're all out here,

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Speaker 5: how do we ask veterans?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's not time.

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Speaker 5: Like we're asking veterans who've been fired to stand up

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Speaker 5: and tell their stories. We're asking like doctors and nurses

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Speaker 5: who used to get funding from HHS to stand up

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Speaker 5: and tell their stories. We're asking people to stand up

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Speaker 5: and try to oppose the insanity of this administration, which

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Speaker 5: definitely feels like a receip to me that like you

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Speaker 5: as a big Paul Wise attorney, your skin attorney can't

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Speaker 5: stand up.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: It's also these people were never going to be the

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Speaker 1: ones to be brave. I mean, that's the thing with

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Speaker 1: the billionaires, right, we have these billionaires who are the

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Speaker 1: first in line to give up. Right, they're just like,

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Speaker 1: I want to make a millenia movie that seems like

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Speaker 1: something the American people are desperate for.

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Speaker 3: Let's pay her.

444
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: Millions of dollars. The idea that capitalism was ever going

445
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: to be the sort of protector of democracy, right, that

446
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: these billionaires were ever going to act in their own good. Well,

447
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: so let me ask you as we find ourselves in

448
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: this moment. Like, one of the places where I feel

449
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: that Democrat Republicans members of Congress really failed was regulation

450
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: tech regulation that they never even fucking tried to regulate

451
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: technology one hundred.

452
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 5: I think the biggest problem in America, honestly, Like, the

453
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 5: reason why we have Donald Trump is because this is

454
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 5: my view, is because we have social media companies who

455
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 5: run amok and basically make a shit ton of money

456
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 5: by driving us to hate each other. You know, that's

457
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 5: like their whole profit system is to keep eyeballs, And

458
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 5: why do they keep eyeballs by making us angry? So

459
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 5: they feed us content about like some random person on

460
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 5: a free in a subway somewhere and what they did,

461
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 5: and you see polarization throughout the globe, and there's like,

462
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 5: is it just an accident that this all happened in

463
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 5: the last like fifteen years of social media like platforms

464
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 5: took up and people spend more and more of their time,

465
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 5: and their whole goal is to get us to watch

466
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 5: what they're doing and get angry. And so I do

467
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 5: think a fundamental mistake was that we haven't regulated, we

468
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 5: haven't gotten rid of Section two thirty, we haven't changed

469
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: Section two thirty. There's like no liability for just telling

470
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 5: lies online, and it's just like the whole system drives

471
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 5: all of us to hate each other. I think it

472
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 5: is like one of the core threats to democracy. I

473
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 5: do not think dland Trump would have even surfaced if

474
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 5: we didn't have a system where we're all like he

475
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 5: can live on the height of Americans.

476
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: And one of the other failures, it feels to me,

477
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: was that there were not strong anti corruption laws passed

478
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: the way they were after Watergate, and so in my mind,

479
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: this is a failure of a number of people. But

480
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: I would love to put Merek Garland in this category.

481
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Why do you think that there was so much inability

482
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: to learn from the errors of Trump won? Like, why

483
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: was there not more legislation? Why was there not more

484
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: executions earlier?

485
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Why do you think?

486
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 5: Well, I kind of think maybe the lesson isn't to

487
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 5: put a judge into a cabinet agency. And you know,

488
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 5: I really honestly believe, I mean, and I think this

489
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 5: is like a really important lesson for everybody. One of

490
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 5: the reasons why we have these institutions where people are

491
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 5: pre obey is because they fundamentally believe that Democrats will

492
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: be like Merrit Garland and Republicans will be like Donald Trump.

493
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 5: And I just have to say, I do not think

494
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 5: we will ever get a Merrit Garland like figure in

495
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 5: as Attorney General in the I don't think any Democrat

496
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 5: will ever think that the proper response to this kind

497
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 5: of lawlessness is just to take forever to make a

498
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 5: decision about anything. I mean, so, I you know, I mean,

499
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 5: I don't know what form that will take, you know,

500
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 5: I think it's important for people to remember that if

501
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 5: you do not act to stop corruption early, you are

502
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 5: advancing corruption.

503
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: I think people kind of lose sight of that.

504
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we had a total arm's length

505
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 5: from these kinds of decisions at the Department of Justice.

506
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 5: Just as an observer really felt to me he was

507
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 5: he so had the voices of Republicans in his head

508
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: that he could not act. And my takeaway of all

509
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 5: of this is, if you have Donald Trump's voice in

510
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 5: your head or Republican right wing people in your head,

511
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 5: You're not going to fight and fight strong enough. And

512
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 5: I think that's a huge lesson for us going forward.

513
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, Ne're a tandem.

514
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Okay, great, Martin Heinrich is the senior Senator from the

515
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: great state of New Mexico.

516
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: Welcome back to a fast politics Senator.

517
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 8: Great to be here.

518
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: So we are.

519
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: As we're speaking, the Corey Booker filibuster is still going, right, It.

520
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 8: Is still going He is remarkable.

521
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: Is it longer than Ted Cruz?

522
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 7: Now?

523
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 8: I think it's longer than Ted Cruz now? But I think,

524
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 8: you know, I think he's shooting for the longest. Yeah, exactly.

525
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 8: I'm trying to think if that was Strom Thurman.

526
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: Yes, Strom Thurman was the longest, and Sad Corcoran maybe before.

527
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 8: I've got to tell you, like, Corey and I are

528
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 8: really good friends. But as someone who's like an introvert

529
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 8: and very detail oriented, I gave probably the longest speech

530
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 8: in my life this year, and it was a little

531
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 8: over half an hour. To watch him do this for

532
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 8: so long and be so on it and to capture,

533
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 8: you know, what so many people are feeling, it's it's remarkable.

534
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 8: I'm grateful to have him here.

535
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what so many people are feeling.

536
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: Because I've been all day in reviewing experts and authoritarianism

537
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: and a bunch of other people like that, and what

538
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: they keep saying is that the most important thing is

539
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: to push back, and to push back forcefully and to

540
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: push back right away. And basically I think the real

541
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: lesson is that what democrats did during Trump one point

542
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: oh worked, and what democrats are doing during Trump two

543
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: point zero needs to look more like what they did

544
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: the first time.

545
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 8: I mean is that your sense, I think whenever you're

546
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 8: dealing with authoritarianism, and that's what this is, and that's

547
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 8: what this president. He doesn't have boundaries. And one of

548
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 8: the key things is to never give up your voice

549
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 8: and your power without a fight. So the ability for

550
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 8: all of us to say this is not okay, this

551
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 8: is not normal. I don't believe in this. I'm going

552
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 8: to stand up against this. That's the central principle that

553
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 8: defines whether democracy slide into something very different or are

554
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 8: able to recover as we did in twenty twenty.

555
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: So one of the things, again I am no Frank

556
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: Lutz fan, really I am not. But he says something

557
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: which I think is worth talking about for a second,

558
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: which is he says, I'm hosting a focus group of

559
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Democratic voters who are angry with them leadership in DC.

560
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: What Corey Booker is doing right now on the set

561
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: of Floor is exactly what they want to hear. Democrats

562
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: would be smart to get a transcript and copy it

563
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: word for word.

564
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 8: I think we have to play on two playing fields,

565
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 8: which one is we have to express and as I

566
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 8: said before, just forcefully say that when a bully punches

567
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 8: you in the nose, you punch back, and you're not

568
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 8: going to give up your power. You're not going to

569
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 8: accede to what they want to do. You're not going

570
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 8: to make it easy for them to do what they

571
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 8: want to do, and at the same time, we have

572
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 8: to play a long term strategic game and understand that

573
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 8: there are lots of Americans right now who are laser

574
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 8: focused on the fact that this is an administration who

575
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 8: would be comfortable taking our democracy away from us, and

576
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 8: that we can't let that happen. At the same time,

577
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 8: we were focused in twenty eighteen, and twenty eighteen was

578
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 8: really critical to what happened in twenty twenty, and we

579
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 8: need to be focused again. In twenty eighteen, it was healthcare,

580
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 8: health care, healthcare, and that was the message because that

581
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 8: was what it took to win over struggling families who

582
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 8: have fifty different things going on and don't always have

583
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 8: time to get into the weeds about history and democracy,

584
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 8: and especially in a media environment that is as fractured

585
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 8: as ours is now. And I think for us right

586
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 8: now going into next year's election, even dealing with the

587
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 8: special elections that we're talking about literally as we speak today,

588
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 8: we need to be talking about prices and the economy

589
00:31:54,480 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 8: because the reckless, irresponsible policies of this president could easily

590
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 8: push us into a recession, and even a recession where

591
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 8: inflation continues to go out of control, where we have

592
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 8: literally a contracting economy but spiraling prices more and more

593
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 8: out of the reach of average Americans. And so you know,

594
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 8: it's a hard job, but we need to be able

595
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 8: to walk and chew gun.

596
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: That's called stagflation.

597
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 8: It is called stagflation. I don't use that word because

598
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 8: most of my constituents don't know what stagflation is. They

599
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 8: don't remember the last time we had stagflation, and so

600
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 8: I tried to explain it a little bit because it

601
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 8: sounds pretty bad to have a recession where prices continue

602
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 8: to go out of control.

603
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in fact, I was not alive for that period,

604
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: or at least I was very young at the end

605
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: of the seventy so.

606
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: It, yeah, exactly.

607
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: It's all I have is the fact that I was

608
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: not an adult in but it was very, very, very

609
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: dark moment in American life. So talk to me about

610
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: you guys have gotten a lot of pushback about the

611
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: cr and they are about to be about few fifteen

612
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: books coming out about by the mistakes that Biden made,

613
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: and they are going to I think they're going to

614
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: really poison the well a lot towards establishment democrats, and

615
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: I think we're going to have even more of a

616
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: tea party movement. Do you think that there's a world

617
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: in which leadership might get shaken up by this.

618
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 8: Well, I think we're at a moment where we're in

619
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 8: a generational change in the Democratic Party. There's just no

620
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 8: question about that. And you know, look, I'm fifty three

621
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 8: years old and I'm in the only legislative job I

622
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 8: can imagine where that still makes you one of the

623
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 8: young folks. And we need new voices that inspire the

624
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 8: people who are going to replace us. I don't think

625
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 8: any of us deserve these jobs forever. That said, we

626
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 8: also need leaders who are strategic, and so this is

627
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 8: not going to be an easy time. I came down

628
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 8: on one side of the cr battle. People I fully

629
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 8: respect came down on the other side of it. And

630
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 8: the truth was we were choosing between two choices that

631
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 8: both really sucked, and you know, the argument from both

632
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 8: sides was know this one sucks more, and so really

633
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 8: smart people came out down on different sides of that,

634
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 8: and my feeling was it was so important in that moment,

635
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 8: especially when the administration was trying to take congressional power

636
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 8: away from away from the congress to push back forcefully

637
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 8: and the punishable and then right back in the nose.

638
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 8: And so that's that was my choice. But I've got

639
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 8: to say there were no easy choices in that battle.

640
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: Agreed, it was a terrible situation, and for sure Trump

641
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: World was from what I know from Schumer's office, they

642
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: were planning on making hr essential personnel and just spending

643
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: the shutdown firing everyone they could. But do you think

644
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: there should have been deliverables? Do you think that Democrats

645
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: would have been in a strong position with deliverables?

646
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 8: I think we should have seen this coming a month

647
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 8: earlier so that we could could have settled on what

648
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 8: is the best possible scenario, what does a win look like,

649
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 8: and then focused all of our energy and all of

650
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 8: our efforts in all of our messaging towards that goal.

651
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 8: And at the end of the day, would it come

652
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 8: out different? I can't answer that. But we've got to

653
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 8: get better at seeing what's coming around the corner and

654
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 8: being ready for it and being having our shit together.

655
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: Once it came through the House, it was on Democrats

656
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: and what was not unreasonable to assume that Johnson was

657
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: not going to be able to get it together to

658
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: pass it. Because as we saw just now with this

659
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: remote voting bill, Johnson is not like a genius mathematician.

660
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 8: Absolutely, but we can't count on it. This is a

661
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 8: personality cult at this point. This is not the Republican

662
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 8: party that I grew up many of my family friends

663
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 8: being part of, and you know it's it's not party

664
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 8: of Reagan. So people tend to fall in line for

665
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 8: Trump in a way that I have not seen other

666
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 8: Republican leaders or presidents be able to deliver on. So

667
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 8: we have to be prepared for those times when that's

668
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 8: exactly what happens. As as bad as Johnson is at

669
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 8: counting votes, I mean, my god, I served four years

670
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 8: in the House and I couldn't tell you when Nancy

671
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 8: Pelosi ever got it wrong in terms of knowing where

672
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 8: her votes were. But we can't count on that. We

673
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 8: have to be ready for when the president swoops in

674
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 8: and is able to deliver the goods.

675
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: Right and to whip the votes.

676
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: So now from world still needs to pass two really

677
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: big pieces of legislation.

678
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 8: Right.

679
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: They want these tax cuts for very wealthy people. It's

680
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: really just the tax cuts, right.

681
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 8: The CR everything's about the tax cuts. So the CR

682
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 8: was about getting to what was important to them.

683
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: Right.

684
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 8: So normally, you know, the spending bill that we would

685
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 8: do would not be a CR. Most people don't even

686
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 8: know what a CR is. We would do multiple different

687
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 8: appropriations bills to fund every different part of the government.

688
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 8: The people who tend to be on the appropriations committees,

689
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 8: even the Republicans, like that work. They don't want government

690
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 8: on autopilot most of the time. But what the Trump

691
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 8: White House and President Trump and that whole group of

692
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 8: rologarchs that he has elevated, what's important to them is

693
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 8: defunding all of these things in government so that they

694
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 8: can pay for a giant tax cut for the hyper rich, right,

695
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 8: And so they were willing to accept a CR to

696
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 8: get it out of the way so that they could

697
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 8: get to what they really care about, which is eviscerating

698
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 8: Medicaid to pay for their tax cut.

699
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: Yes, it's true, And in fact, we had a pretty

700
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: incredible moment where Casey was on television saying we need

701
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: to cut Medicaid and then he said reform right.

702
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, missed the talking points there for a minute and

703
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 8: had a moment of honesty, because that's what it is.

704
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 8: It's like if you drill down on any of the

705
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 8: stuff that they're calling medicare fraud, and medicare fraud is real,

706
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 8: but it's small and it's prosecutable, and it's something that

707
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 8: people who deal with real crime can root out. But

708
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 8: when you deal with the kind of numbers that they're

709
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 8: throwing out there, what they're talking about is like s

710
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 8: forms not filled out the right way and somebody forgetting

711
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 8: to put their zip code on an application. They're lumping

712
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 8: all of that into fraud so that they can get

713
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 8: to a crazy number big enough to pay for their

714
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:41,959
Speaker 8: tax cut.

715
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: Also, Doge has Doge has a sort of.

716
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: Grift going that it is going to be able to

717
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: cut enormous sums from the federal budget. But it seems

718
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: through technology or some kind of right like these tech pros,

719
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: these one guy is called Big Right. There are these

720
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: very right leaning tech pros. We are young that they

721
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: are going to somehow find things that are going to

722
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: save millions of dollars in the federal government. So that

723
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: is something that's sort of i think, not really happening,

724
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: but sort of a bait and switch.

725
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 8: Oh, it's a complete bait and switch. It's about creating chaos,

726
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 8: it's about breaking down the people who care the most

727
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 8: about their jobs. I mean that's why when Doge fired

728
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 8: so many people, they fired the easy ones to fire,

729
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 8: not the people who were problematic in their work history.

730
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 8: But for example, they fired National Park rangers who had

731
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 8: just gotten promoted because they were the most high functioning,

732
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 8: but because they were within twelve months of that promotion,

733
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 8: those were the first folks to go. So the whole

734
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 8: Doge premise, we can find efficiencies, but you have to

735
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 8: actually understand what each of these government agencies is supposed

736
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 8: to do to be able to find those efficiencies. So

737
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 8: you don't shut down, you know, your ability to fight

738
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 8: fires in the Western United States to save a few nickels,

739
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 8: And these guys are like rummaging around in the couch

740
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 8: cushions looking for nichols. And meanwhile they're just completely eviscerating

741
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 8: the things we need the government to actually do.

742
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:19,479
Speaker 3: So signal gate.

743
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, now we just saw this reporting

744
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: that members of President Trump's National Security Council may have

745
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: been using Gmail. So that's a Gmail Gate speak to

746
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: us about the large implications of this scandal.

747
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 8: Well, that kind of begs the question if they're choosing

748
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 8: to use Gmail and not their government emails, and they're

749
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 8: using signal and not their high side secure communications platforms.

750
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 8: You know, there's a real question here where they just

751
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 8: trying to avoid the regular checks and balances of things

752
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 8: like the Federal Records Act because it's not safe to

753
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 8: do that. We all know, like those of us who

754
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 8: are on the intelligens committees, we know better than to

755
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 8: be lulled into thinking that just because you were using

756
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 8: an end to end encrypted platform that you're safe because

757
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 8: your device could still be compromised. Right, and we don't

758
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 8: know were these personal phones. They won't tell us that.

759
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 8: There are a lot of outstanding questions here. Were these

760
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 8: phones ever swept to see if there was malware on

761
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 8: them where the phones actually compromises, we would know that

762
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 8: potentially if they were swept. So this is an administration

763
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 8: and a group of people who are doing everything they

764
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 8: can to manage the damage rather than just admit that

765
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 8: they screwed up. And that real leadership is about, especially

766
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 8: in the military, it's about admitting you did something wrong

767
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 8: and dealing with the downstream effects of that. And there

768
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 8: has been no willingness by anyone in this administration to

769
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 8: take responsibility for this mess.

770
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: It does seem as if there is no absolutely no accountability.

771
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: But also, do you think that Trump is making a

772
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: mistake if he keeps on walls, which I guess he

773
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: is for now, do you think that actually sort of

774
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: hurts him? Because I get that the goal here is

775
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: to never admit that you are wrong. But doesn't the

776
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: incompetence sort of rub off on everyone else? I mean,

777
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: obviously they're all incompetent.

778
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 8: But it projects in competence, and of course it projects hubris,

779
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 8: which shouldn't surprise any of us. But if you look

780
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 8: at some of the numbers coming out just today around

781
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 8: how people view this, people view it as reckless. You know,

782
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 8: there are a lot of Republicans out there who served

783
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 8: in the military who know that the DoD guidance is

784
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 8: that operational details never never get communicated on your low

785
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 8: side communications because that puts real service members' lives at risk.

786
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 8: You have access to a bunch of emojis that maybe

787
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 8: you don't have access to him the high side.

788
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

789
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 8: That's like, this is ridiculous. Sources and methods should never

790
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 8: ever ever be in these kinds of communications. And there

791
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 8: were details in these communications that I can just tell

792
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 8: you do not belong. You may have the Secretary of

793
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 8: Defense saying like this is not classified because I get

794
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 8: to define what's classified and what's not. But these are

795
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 8: precisely the kind of details that should never be included

796
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 8: in unsecured communications.

797
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Senator.

798
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 8: No, it's a pleasure to get a chance to chat

799
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:32,479
Speaker 8: with you again.

800
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appreciate it. And it's really good.

801
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: I mean, the more you guys can elevate you and

802
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: people who are younger and more clear.

803
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 8: Well to be continued, we're not backing down from this fight.

804
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: Okaye, good because the stakes are really high, as you.

805
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 8: Know, one hundred percent.

806
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: And now we have an excerpt from our YouTube channel.

807
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: Justin Wolfer's is the host of the Think Like an

808
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: Economist podcast and a professor at the University of Michigan.

809
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Justin Wolfers.

810
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 9: Things are going great.

811
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 4: Good.

812
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 6: I didn't even ask.

813
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going real well in case you're wondering, So

814
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: let's talk about tariffs and how.

815
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 6: We're going I have a challenge for you, Emily. Yours

816
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 6: is the only show I ever go on and swear

817
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 6: yes excellent, and I my challenge is, let's not do that.

818
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 6: Let's not do liberal rage. I feel it, you listeners, whe.

819
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 9: The hairless dog feels it.

820
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 6: No one likes to see the equality of life destroyed. Yes,

821
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 6: but I my challenge for you is the issues are

822
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 6: too big and too important, and I think there's nothing

823
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 6: more important we can do today than explain it in

824
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 6: the nerdiest possible ways so that our listeners know what's

825
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 6: happening to their world.

826
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: So no swearing.

827
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 6: Let's walk out, all right.

828
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 9: I can't believe no swearing. You know, I'm the least

829
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 9: swearing of many people I'm on with. I'm like the

830
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 9: grown up, and now you are becoming the grown up

831
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 9: in the room, which is you know, all.

832
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 6: Right, we need some grown ups in.

833
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 9: Speaking of a room with no grown ups. The White

834
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,879
Speaker 9: House discuss so.

835
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 6: Obviously there was the big tariff announcement. The big news

836
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 6: for everyone is very very large tariffs from the United States,

837
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 6: bigger than the smooth holy tariffs that Benstein joked about

838
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 6: in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

839
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 9: They crashed the economy last time.

840
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 6: It was called the Great Depression.

841
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 9: Yes, I wasn't alive.

842
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 6: Then if you compare our tariff rates to those of

843
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 6: other industrialized countries. They are now ten to twenty times larger.

844
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 6: So we are getting cut off from the rest of

845
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 6: the world to a degree that no one else at

846
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 6: our level of economic development or in the modern era

847
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 6: and US. So that's the big news, and I don't

848
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 6: want to lose sight of that. But actually you were

849
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 6: asking about the White House, and so what's even crazier

850
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 6: is it's completely clear that they did no homework. So

851
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 6: what we now have is very different tariffs for very

852
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 6: different countries. Trump calls these retaliatory or reciprocal. Sorry, he

853
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 6: calls them reciprocal. Texts, Yeah, they're hurting us, will hurt them. Right,

854
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 6: It is impossible to have tariffs that are ten or

855
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 6: twenty times larger than other people and for that to

856
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 6: be reciprocity. Like the mathematics of that. I hope we're obvious.

857
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 6: There is still, you know, a well spread talking point

858
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 6: among the fox is set where people believe that we're

859
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 6: getting ripped off by other countries. Look, here's the trick.

860
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 6: Economy is a big pie. There are small slices and

861
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 6: small slivers where there are active interest groups and national

862
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 6: traditions and so on, which are indulging protectionism enough that

863
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 6: it gives Trump's folks talking points, But don't lose sight

864
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 6: of the reality that in a modern economy, tariff rates

865
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 6: average one or two percent, not twenty percent. So this

866
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 6: is not reciprocal tariffs. This is American tariffs. This is

867
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 6: big walls around the country. If you want to think

868
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 6: about it in metaphorical terms, what Trump has done has

869
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 6: thrown rocks in the harbors of all of our ports,

870
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 6: made it harder for anyone else to enter, and the

871
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 6: retaliatory tariffs make it harder for ships to leave. We're

872
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 6: now less integrated with the rest of the world.

873
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 9: Where do you think they came up with these numbers?

874
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 6: Sorry, it is hard to explain the degree of incompetence

875
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 6: behind this, but let's nerd out for.

876
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: A little bit.

877
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 6: Okay, I don't think you should worry, but you could

878
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 6: worry about something called our trade deficit. Our trade deficit

879
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 6: is that we buy more stuff from abroad than they

880
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 6: buy from.

881
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: Us, right, because it's cheaper to manufacture in places like

882
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: the Vietnam than it is in places like Michigan.

883
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 6: You don't even need an economist. I buy stuff from

884
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 6: abroad because I want to I buy Australian one because

885
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 6: it tastes better. Yeah, well, I buy my kids toys

886
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 6: from China because they're cheaper. There's no economy out there.

887
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 6: There's you and I and your listeners making decisions, and

888
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 6: it turns out the decisions that I make. Or I

889
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 6: buy Vietnamese made T shirts because they're cheap, and I'm cheap,

890
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 6: and that's okay, that's my business, right.

891
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 3: So we had a very American here go ones.

892
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 6: I believe in freedom, my friend. My T shirts that

893
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 6: I buy from Vietnam have eagles on them and fireworks.

894
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 6: So we have a trade deficit. Now, there are two

895
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 6: ways of describingess whenever we trade. When I buy a

896
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 6: T shirt, I send pieces of paper over to Vietnam,

897
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,479
Speaker 6: those pieces of paper called US dollars, and they send

898
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 6: me pieces of cloth back. If what you thought the

899
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 6: most important thing in life was was pieces of paper,

900
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 6: you would be very upset that America has more pieces

901
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 6: of paper leaving that it has coming back. I've tried

902
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 6: to wear pieces of paper. They don't keep you warm.

903
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 6: My T shirt with the eagle and the fireworks and

904
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 6: the freedom does keep me warm. So as much as

905
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 6: we run a trade deficit in dollars. We run a

906
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 6: trade surplus and stuff. So that's why I'm not so

907
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 6: worried about that. But President Trump is okay, fair enough,

908
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 6: he probably had a very bad teacher at the Warden

909
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 6: School many years ago. But then what he worries about

910
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 6: is something different. He worries about our trade deficit with

911
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 6: each individual country. What's our trade deficit with Australia, with Canada,

912
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 6: with Mexico and so on. Right, economists call these bilateral

913
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 6: trade deficits. Worrying about this is insane. Let me give

914
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 6: you an example. I run a bilateral trade deficit with

915
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 6: Traded Joe's. Every time I go there, I give them

916
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 6: money and they give me stuff. And I also say

917
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 6: to them while I'm there, I say, you know, I'm

918
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 6: a pretty good economist. Would you like me to deliver

919
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 6: an economics lecture while I'm in the store. I will

920
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 6: accept your money. And they always say no. So I

921
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 6: run that trade deficit. That's literally a trade deficit between

922
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 6: Justin Wolfers and Traded Joe's. I kind of think that's

923
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 6: okay that Traded Joe's doesn't buy a lot of educational

924
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 6: services from the University of Michigan. And I kind of

925
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 6: think it's okay that they're not buying meals from me either,

926
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 6: but Trump is worried about that, and so the tariffs

927
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 6: are set proportional to America's trade deficit with each country.

928
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 6: So if Traded Joe's were another country, the United States

929
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 6: would have a one hundred percent tariff on Trader Joe's.

930
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 6: Is my life going to be better if I can't

931
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 6: get moderately good frozen meals from Trader to Joe's. No,

932
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 6: I'd have to eat the crap that I cook instead.

933
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 6: And so that's what's driven each of these individual tariffs,

934
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 6: and it leads to some profound absurdities. There's the country

935
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 6: of Lesotho. Every poor country which is lucky enough to

936
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 6: live on top of some dirt that has diamonds underneath it.

937
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 6: Americans like diamonds, so they buy diamonds from Lesotho. People

938
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 6: Innesotho are very very poor. They don't buy much stuff

939
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 6: from America. We make very expensive, high end stuff. So

940
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 6: therefore the United States runs a trade deficit with Lesotho.

941
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 6: Trump thinks that's evidence that they're ripping us off and

942
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 6: they must have very high tariffs on us, so he

943
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 6: has just put very very high tariffs on Losertha. This

944
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 6: makes no sense. It's literally crazy. So what we have

945
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 6: is an old man who misunderstands economics, who has surrounded

946
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 6: himself with people who refuse to explain to him, literally

947
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 6: refuse to explain to him that his ideas might know

948
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 6: since that's the problem. So with Saint Markets full dramatically

949
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 6: on the news of these terraffs.

950
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 1: To hear more, please head over to our YouTube channel

951
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: by searching Fast Politics with Molly Chong Fast.

952
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 2: And a moment.

953
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 3: Jesse Cannon Molly Jung Fast.

954
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: So imagine, for some reason you wanted to buy a

955
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: cyber truck. I can't conceive of why.

956
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 3: No, don't worry.

957
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: Apparently Tesla is not accepting them as trade ins and

958
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: taking them to return when people don't like driving it

959
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: around and having swastikas written on it and people laughing

960
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: at them on the street.

961
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: I am shocked.

962
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: You'll remember that cyber trucks have actually been recalled because

963
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: of the glue that Elon Mush uses to glue the

964
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: metal to the bottom of the car is coming unglued.

965
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 3: You'll remember that.

966
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: Well, you can maybe get them recalled, but you certainly

967
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: cannot trade them in for Tesla's cyber truck owners say

968
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: Tesla will not accept its own vehicle as a trade in.

969
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: With Tesla having issues selling new cyber trucks, the automakers

970
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: reportedly not taking any trade ins. Many cyber truck owners

971
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: report trying to trade in their truck for a new vehicle,

972
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: and they were told that the automaker currently doesn't accept

973
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: its own.

974
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 3: Vehicle as a trade in.

975
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: I am not at all surprised.

976
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: So real buyers remorse in a real life situation.

977
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 3: That's it for.

978
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

979
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

980
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

981
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

982
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.