WEBVTT - Combat time anxiety, with Chris Guillebeau 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.520 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.360 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.200 the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.919 take their days from great to awesome and any advice 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:23.680 they might have for. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.080 The rest of us. So today I am excited. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.360 To welcome Chris Gilibo to the show. Chris is the 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.600 author of a brand new book called Time Anxiety. You 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.519 might also know him from Side Hustle School or the 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:36.920 Art of non Conformity. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:38.600 So Chris, welcome to the show. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.199 Thank you so much, Laura. I's a huge honor to 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:42.800 be here. I'm a big fan of you, as you know, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.360 reading your blog for many years. So this is very exciting. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:47.400 I'm excited to have you. So why don't you tell 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:48.920 our listeners a little bit about yourself? 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.800 Sure, a little about myself? Well, I was born at 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.319 a young age. It's always like a dangerous question, right, 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:56.600 So like what is pertinent? 0:00:58.440 --> 0:00:58.640 You know? 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.600 In my early twenties, I spent a few years as 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.360 an aid worker in West Africa. That was like a 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.440 very transformative time for me. Led to me traveling to 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.040 a bunch of other places and just getting interested in 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.080 like cross cultural things. I'd always kind of worked for myself. 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.120 I was like this classic unemployable, you know, archetype, Like 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.399 I really like to work on things I'm excited about. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.800 It's very adhd. But if I'm not excited about it, 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:23.000 then I don't want to work on it at all. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.399 So you have to kind of work for yourself. So 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.600 did lots of little entrepreneurial projects. Had a project of 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.479 going to every country in the world which I started 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.759 in two thousand and eight and wrote a blog about 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.840 it called The Art of Nonconformity. That's kind of how 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.639 I started writing and sharing online. Been doing some version 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.360 of that ever since. Started writing books, started this podcast 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.559 that I've been doing every day for twenty eight hundred 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.960 days now. And I hosted an event called the World 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.760 Domination Summit, which you were a keynote speaker at an 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.800 opening keynote speaker one year, which was really fun. And 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.440 I have a really wonderful community. So a little bit 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.200 more about neurodivergence and mental health and you know, related 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.160 topics these days. But I try to work on things 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:07.960 i'm excited about. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.760 Yeah, and you actually made it to all of the 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.000 countries I get, yes, including the ones that we are 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:15.880 not supposed to go to anymore. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.040 I think, yes, that's right. Yeah, it was actually easier 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.320 a few years ago than it is now. People are 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.160 still doing this quest, but I think it was a 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.360 little bit easier. Yeah, back in the early. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.480 Early two thousands before there are fewer restrictions. Yeah, it 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.359 is an amazing thing to contemplate doing. But I want 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.520 to talk a little bit about what time anxiety is. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.919 So what is this concept of time anxiety? 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.040 I'm curious. I mean not to derail, because I'll answer directly. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.440 But when I first do it, started doing like the 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.760 research for this book, I had this phrase, and I 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.079 started just asking people about it. I'd be curious what 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.480 the concept time anxiety means to you, Laura, without even 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.000 any context of the book and such. But I started 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.400 just checking with people, and like, people are like, what 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.320 are you working on? It's like, I'm exploring this concept 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.120 and I come to it honest, I don't come to 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.440 it as like an academic or a researcher. Like I 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.000 actually felt like my life was kind of governed by 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:11.800 this sense of like I feel like I'm running out 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.640 of time. There's not enough time to do what I want. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.240 And I mean, you've written about this extensively, you know, 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.000 from your own perspective and such, And how do I 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.120 decide what to do next in the face of so 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.760 many options and such? So I started asking people, or 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.040 I started telling them, I'm working on this concept called 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.000 time anxiety, and almost everyone would have a really strong 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.120 opinion about it. They would have an experience with it. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.880 They would say, I have this thing. I talk about 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.320 this with my friends all the time, but we didn't 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.640 have a name for it, you know, like I feel 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.760 like this is like the greatest problem of my life. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.680 You know, some people would even say so. For me, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.200 I think it's you know, there are two types of it. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:50.280 It's one is this existential type of time is running 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.960 out in my life right and or maybe there's something 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.400 I should be doing but I don't quite know what 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.120 it is, and I have this sense or maybe I 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.880 have some regret over things I done or not done 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.360 in the past and feel like I can't change that now. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.680 And then the second type is just the day to 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.000 day routine of how do I, you know, kind of 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.720 triage and sequence my work and my life and my 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.680 relationships and my hobbies and all the you know, how 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.640 do I make these choices? In this world of knowledge work, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.520 even if you have like a somewhat defined job, you know, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.760 for a lot of people doing knowledge work, there's like 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.919 an infinite array of you know, the task that you 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.720 work on and how you you know, approach and schedule them, 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.920 and so it can be really overwhelming. And so that's 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:33.479 the second part. 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.000 I think you had talked a little bit about it 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.640 being like the sense that you're always behind in some 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:38.359 way or another. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.760 Sure, yeah, always behind and not sure how to course 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.520 correct or you know, like if you ask people like 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.440 what they really want, A lot of people say, I 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.440 want to catch up, you know, I want like if 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.640 I had an extra day, you know, how would I 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.120 spend How would you spend it? And you expect that 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.279 they would say like, I, you know, would have like 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.040 a vacation, or but it's I would catch up on 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.960 my email. That's my greatest aspiration is I would catch up. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.320 And I kind of felt like this way myself for 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:06.479 a long time, and so I felt like it was 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.960 really troubling and like what do we what do we 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:09.400 do about it? 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:10.279 But Yeah, it's curious. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.120 I mean the idea of catching up or being behind 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.599 implies that there's some objective standard of where everyone is 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.880 supposed to be, which I guess I've never figured out 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.680 where that standard was kept or. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:20.520 Who decided that. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.279 So well, we're all suffering from our time anxiety. In 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.039 the book, I wanted to talk you know, you have 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.880 a lot of different tips and hacks of things to try, 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.479 which I loved about The book is very practical, But 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.919 I want to talk about one speecific issue. You mentioned 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:42.360 time blindness, So now what is time blindness and how 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:43.320 can people address this? 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.159 So it's kind of a neurodivergent e concept, So for 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.039 anybody with ADHD or autism, or anybody who identifies with 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.279 any conditions like that, but not exclusively, A lot of 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.599 people can have time blindness, which is basically like where 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:02.360 we kind of chronically misestimate, underestimate, or overestimate how much 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.279 time something takes, and this leads to us kind of 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.840 always feeling rushed, like always feeling rushed, always being behind. 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.760 So if you're the kind of person who's always late, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.240 you probably don't like that about yourself. You know, it's 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.440 not like, oh, this is just but your friends have 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.440 kind of like gotten used to it, like so and 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.880 so is always late to things, but it's in this 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.440 case it's probably because you are not estimating, you know, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.520 the amount of time that's required for transitions and such. 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.400 And people will also go the other way and like 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.800 overestimate time too. But a really simple thing to do, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.080 and this is not like mind blowing, but it can 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.120 actually change your life, is simply to allow like ten 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.599 or fifteen more minutes than you think you need, you know, 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.960 for transitions. And it's going to be the coolest thing 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.920 because now you are like five minutes early to things. 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.400 And what's interesting is when I've shared that with people, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.800 some people really are worried about, like what will I 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.240 do with the five extra minutes? You know, and like 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:56.760 this is not a problem. This is a good thing. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.760 To take a book with you, right, or do something, 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.760 you know, like it's a thing to have extra padding, 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.320 like to have buffer and margin in your life. Is 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.560 actually it provides relief, I think, And I think what 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.720 a lot of people are looking for more than organization, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.680 And again I'd be curious what you think about it, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.960 but like more than organization or hyper optimization, what they're 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.560 looking for is relief, a sense of like, help me 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:18.320 feel better? 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:19.440 Yeah. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.160 Well, and the thing is, honestly, people who are chronically late, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.360 adding in ten to fifteen minutes is not going to 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:25.000 make them early. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.720 They will probably be there right on time. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.080 So you know, it's really one of those funny things. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.720 And yeah, people always like but what I could have 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.120 emptied the dishwasher before I left. But we just need 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.000 to nip that thought right there. Well, we're going to 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.600 take a quick ad break and then I will be 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:48.760 back with more from Chris Guillibo. Well, I am back 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.080 with Chris Gilbo, who's the author of the brand new 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.920 book Time Anxiety. We've been talking about time blindness. If 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.440 you find yourself always late, how you can just add 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.600 ten to fifteen minutes and you will probably be on time. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.320 You may find yourself early, but that would be a 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.080 happy thing that you could celebrate if that happens. So 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.200 you mentioned people feeling like they would spend their extra 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.360 time getting caught up on email. I know from the 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.840 book Time Anxiety that you find email particularly stressful. In 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.320 case anyone listening to this also suffers from that anxiety, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.800 I wonder if there's anything you've done to help yourself there. 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.920 Yeah, I mean this kind of ruled my life in 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.120 a negative way for many years, and I felt really 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.080 bad about it. Like I was very bad about getting 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.400 back to people and getting back to people that I 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.000 cared about. You know, you probably wrote me at some 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.880 point and I wrote you back three months later, and 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.000 I would begin almost every email with the same sentence, 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.040 which is like, I'm so sorry for the delay in reply, right, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.320 you know. And so I have this whole chapter about 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.160 the inbox of shame, and I honestly felt like I'm 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.040 just always letting people down. And it wasn't just a 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.360 matter of like, oh, I need to schedule twenty minutes 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.319 into my I need to Like sometimes I would have time, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.800 and I would have this great resistance to like there's 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.199 this block over there's something I'm dreading and I can't 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.040 force myself to do it. I think this is also 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.120 like a NERD divergent kind of thing and understanding that 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.280 sometimes really small things can can be difficult, you know, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.760 to do. And so I think there's a process of it. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.280 Like I wrote a little bit about radical acceptance, some 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.800 of it is you just accept like there are some 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.680 things that you that you are going to be better 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.720 at than others. You can try to and you write 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.400 about this, like minimizing some of your communication and closing 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.560 off some inboxes so that you don't have, you know, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.480 the ability to get a direct message on every single 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:35.080 platform and such. Ultimately, I think you just you do 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.200 what you can. Like you try to do what you can. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.280 You try to prioritize, prioritize like the important relationships and 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.280 not worry as much about everything else. I also do 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.600 things like the you know, inbox bankruptcy, you know where 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.160 I'm just like, Okay, I've had all these messages there 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:51.960 forever and I'm not doing anything about it. This is 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:53.840 probably going to stress you out right, you would never 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.559 do this, but some of your listeners are probably more 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.839 like me, and they've just had all these things there 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.679 for so long. And so the the whole point is 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.960 if you just like you know, archive or delete and 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.240 move on, then yes, you may feel a little bit 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:08.720 bad about some of that stuff, but you've been feeling 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.200 bad about it and not doing anything about it, and 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.360 now you're going to do a better job moving forward 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.080 with things. So that helps me from time to time. 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.720 Yeah, No, honestly, I mean, I don't respond to everything 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.960 instantly or anything like that, but I do. I do 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.760 an email triage is what I call it, every like 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.360 two to three days and trying to get myself to current, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.160 and sometimes that involves deciding that I'm not going to 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.280 respond to something which you know, you have your Friday list, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.280 you know, which I know the world has not stopped 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:38.080 spinning yet, so it seems to be okay at this point. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.760 So, Chris, what is a reverse bucket list? I love 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.000 this idea of a reverse bucket list. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.360 A reverse bucket list is about celebrating what you've actually 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.440 already done, what you've already accomplished. So obviously listeners know 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.080 that the bucket list is like, oh, here's all the 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:54.400 things that I want to do. I want to go 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.400 to Paris, and I want to go bungee jumping, and 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.480 you know, et cetera, et cetera, And I'm very future minded. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.240 I tend to be very goal oriented. But always being 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.040 future minded means sometimes that I don't appreciate the present 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.880 or actually reflect on, Oh, I've been able to do 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.880 some cool things. I have been to Paris. I don't 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.320 actually care about bungee jumping, so the reverse bucket list 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.080 is like, this is a list of things I have done, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:19.760 you know, and it can be any It can be 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.680 bucket list like items, it can be accomplishments of any kind. 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.599 It can be relationships that you are proud of, or 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.000 times that you've made good choices in relationships, times that 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.040 you've showed up for yourself. I mean, it's your list, right, 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:33.880 So it's good. It's a way of like, look, I 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:35.920 actually have done, you know, a lot, and so I 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.080 think so there's the big picture bucket list reverse bucket 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:40.840 list kind of thing. But I also think even at 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.440 the end of the day, just a short little because 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:43.800 we have a to do list, you know, we always 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.120 have like our running stuff that we got to do 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:46.480 and then we check it off and it's gone. I 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.040 think it can also be helpful, like at the end 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.280 of the day, for example, or a week, to be like, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.000 what are three things I actually did today, not just 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.280 the three things I need to do going forward, because 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.920 I tend to not I tend to just finish stuff 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.520 and move on. Finish stuff and move on. And I 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.560 think it's really helpful to decide, like what's enough, and 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.520 then I can celebrate that. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.520 Yeah, well, I'm a big fan of daily celebrations. We 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.600 should have more celebrations in general. I mean, I've added 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.320 stuff to my to do list that I've done just 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.600 to cross it off, so you know, I like giving 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:14.559 that little gold star. 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.400 So you mentioned that when you ask. 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.400 People what they do with an extra day of the week, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.040 many people suggest that they'd get caught up on their email. 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.280 But you suggest that people actually do an exercise of 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.199 thinking what they would do on an extra day of 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.840 the week. And I presume you don't want them to 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.760 do email, So maybe talk a little bit about that 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:32.600 exercise and what. 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.400 Yeah, I had to take. I had to take catching 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.960 up off the list of options. So the idea is 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.720 instead of thinking about your one single, ideal perfect day, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.640 which is kind of another thought exercise, and that can 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.120 be helpful, but it also is like pressure inducing, like 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:48.640 it's like a one day, it's got to be perfect. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.880 You know, what if you had an extra day every week, 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.439 and so it's the eighth day of the week, you 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.920 got seven days a week, but now there's an extra 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.560 day and on this day, not only can you not 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.400 use it to catch up, you know, presumably you have 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.360 other responsibilities and obligations and such on the other days, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.240 but on this day, nobody is asking you for anything, right, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.360 So it's your day. And the key point is it repeats, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.640 so you know, you get fifty two of them a year. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.600 So what would you do on that day? And if 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.360 you think of it in that context, I think it's 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.959 more helpful than just thinking about like what do I 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.840 want to do with my life or what's that single day? 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.839 Because sequentially you can do a lot, right, and Lauria 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.240 you're the model of this, right, with like war and 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.560 peace and the bak and everything else that you do. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.280 So it's like, you know, people can write a book 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.520 in a year, you know, using this framework, they can 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.280 learn a language, they can learn something else, they can 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.320 practice something. So I think it just kind of helps 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.520 you get in tune with what you really want. And 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.600 I think a lot of people don't think very deeply 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.439 about that what is it that I really want to 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.360 get out of life? And what is it that I 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.080 want now? And what do I want in the future? 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.400 And how how can I be kind to my future self? 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.160 What are the choices I need to make now so 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.600 that my future stuff will be able to you know, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.720 whatever that thing is, and maybe just to give it 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.640 make it even more simple. Just a really practical thing 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.160 is like as you were going through the day, like 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.040 maybe you're doing the trademark Laura VANDERCAM time tracking system, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.400 which I love and respect and have talked about many times. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.920 But you can also just intuitively, maybe just notice and 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.360 ask yourself, like what do I want more of and 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.160 what do I want less of? And I think when 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.960 people do that, they tend to just like moving forward, 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.920 kind of interact differently with the world once you know, 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.240 oh I want more of this or I want less 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:33.440 of this. I don't actually want to talk to this 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.560 person all the time. Maybe I have to talk to 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.720 them some of the time, but you know, I want 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.200 to lessen those interactions. And I'm actually I'm really enjoying, 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.440 you know, these puzzles that I'm working over something else, 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.440 and like, be cool if I spend more time. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.000 Doing that, Yeah, yeah, on the eighth day of the week, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.479 we would not be talking to that person that well. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.000 I think the idea is most people don't. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.800 We don't really think about what we'd like to spend 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.640 a lot more time doing because people assume they have 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:58.080 no time. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:59.920 So what would be the point of asking what you 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:00.680 want to do more time? 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.880 But if you think about it, then hopefully we can 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.400 start to build that into the one hundred and sixty 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.560 eight hours we have in the week without actually getting 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:08.840 one hundred and ninety two hour week. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.000 Great, right, right, right, very good? Yeah, exactly. I think 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.160 you can do it strategically or you do it intuitively, 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.200 and like both both ways are going to help. Ultimately 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.120 you're going to be better off. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:18.920 Excellent. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.040 Well, We're going to take one more quick ad break 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:29.800 and I will be back with Chris. Well. I am 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.640 back interviewing Chris Gilibo, who's the author of the brand 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.120 new book Time Anxiety. He's also the author of the 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.800 book The Art of Nonconformity. Been telling us all about 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.040 his amazing projects, like visiting all of the countries in 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.040 the world back in the day. So, Chris, among the 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.560 happy tips in your book is to think about death 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:48.160 once a day. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:49.520 Yeah. Is that great? 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.600 Why should we have this memento Maury every day? 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:54.520 What's in that for us? 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.000 It's so interesting. I was talking with Ryan Holiday about 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.880 this recently because he has a similar take. I think 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.640 not everybody has the same awareness of mortality. Everyone has 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.560 an intellectual awareness of mortality, which is like everyone dies, 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.560 we know this, but to have a more personal awareness 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.000 is like someday I will die. And when I was 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.320 doing the country quest, I wrote a book about other 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.360 people doing quests of all kinds and such, and one 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.640 of the commonalities I found among them is that they 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.360 often had this more personal awareness of mortality. Maybe they 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.880 had had something that happened to them a close call 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.520 of their own, or they had lost someone close to them, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.960 or maybe not, but they had this more personal understanding 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.359 of it, and it instead of being like pressure inducing 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.000 or a sad and scary thing, well maybe it is 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:44.920 a sad and scary thing, but it could also be 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.680 like a purpose inducing thing. And it kind of makes 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.000 you think, well, okay, life is short. We know that, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.520 you know intellectually, but if I what does it look 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.760 like to like live each day with that understanding? And 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.560 maybe I will make different choices if I just remember, okay, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.080 I won't get this this day back. Time is precious, right, 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.760 You're right about this a lot. So you know, for me, 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.800 like thinking about death is it's not meant to be 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.399 like overly negative thing. It's meant to be like I 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.280 want to do more. You know, I don't actually want 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.480 to be a minimalist. I don't want to like less 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.679 is not the answer, you know, I want there's some 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.240 things I want to do less of, but actually, like, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.479 I love my life and I want to do more 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.960 stuff that's exciting, and I want to set goals and 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.840 I want to get closer to people that I care 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.200 about and like try to have as much impact as possible. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.480 And you know, part of the reason that I want 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.440 that and other people you know want that, is because 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.960 we realize like that time is limited. Right, What is 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:41.840 it that you say? You know, what was the classic 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.200