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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking about navigating the insane insurance system with

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Speaker 2: Consumer Reports Lisa Gill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so our conversation today is going to be all

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Speaker 1: about reducing some major expenses in our lives. Insurance, the

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Speaker 1: premiums that we pay. They've skyrocketed over the past several

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Speaker 1: years for many reasons that we'll actually get into today,

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Speaker 1: and it's a huge bummer if you haven't noticed your

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Speaker 1: premiums rising, that's a problem too. I think one of

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Speaker 1: the issues with insurances that were often insulated from these

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Speaker 1: higher costs because let's say homeowners insurance, well, that's covered

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Speaker 1: by our escrow. We don't necessarily see that day in

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Speaker 1: and day out. Or health insurance premiums, maybe that's gone

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Speaker 1: up a little bit, but hey, my employer they take

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Speaker 1: care of that for me. But eventually that's going to

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Speaker 1: have an impact on you on an individual level. And

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Speaker 1: here to tackle this problem is Lisa Gill from Consumer Reports,

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Speaker 1: the nonprofit consumer advocacy organization that we love, we talk

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Speaker 1: about all the time, and Lisa is an investigative journalist.

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Speaker 1: We're going to discuss everything today from wildfires to prescription drugs. So, Lisa,

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Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.

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Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: talking to me.

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Speaker 4: It's such an important topic, and we're going to try

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Speaker 4: to make it as fun and easy to understand as possible.

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Speaker 1: Yes, let's making sure it's fun, Lisa. I like that.

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Speaker 1: It's a tall task, but we can do it. We

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Speaker 1: can do it.

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Speaker 3: We can do it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you can do it at least. Well, we'll ask

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Speaker 2: you questions to point you in that direction. The first question, though,

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Speaker 2: that we ask everyone who comes on the show, is

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Speaker 2: what do you like to suploor?

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Speaker 1: John?

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Speaker 2: Because Matt and I splore John fancy beers from time

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Speaker 2: to time. But we're still being smart with our money, investing, saving,

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Speaker 2: thinking about the future.

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Speaker 1: What's that for you?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 4: I live in a tiny house, and this tiny house

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Speaker 4: is located in a little like magical pine forest, and

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Speaker 4: I swear it looks like the It looks like a

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Speaker 4: movie set. And in this pine forest are lots of

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Speaker 4: pine needles. But under that is sand, and because of that,

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Speaker 4: I have become ever vigilant with putting down pea gravel

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Speaker 4: so that my tiny home does not wash away in

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Speaker 4: a rainstorm. So this is a necessity. But at the

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Speaker 4: same time I accomplished that, but I am addicted to

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Speaker 4: loads and loads of pea gravel that you can get

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Speaker 4: at home depot or you can get people to drop

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Speaker 4: it off. I splurged on a wheelbarrel that is like

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Speaker 4: at to like load up this pea gravel and spread

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Speaker 4: it all around the tiny home and all leading up.

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Speaker 3: To the tiny home. And I have got probably six

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Speaker 3: seven tons of pea gravel and I can I literally

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Speaker 3: can't stop getting it.

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Speaker 1: So basically, every time you are out running an air

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Speaker 1: and you'll swing by home depot and throw one of

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Speaker 1: those guys on your shoulder. Oh my god, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: walking out of home deep like Joel's walking out of

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Speaker 1: Costco with this uh with his tragger pellets.

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Speaker 4: I can't, I cannot, I literally can't stop. The other day,

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Speaker 4: somebody asked me, what would you do if you had

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Speaker 4: a whole day off that you didn't expect, you know,

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Speaker 4: how would you spend it?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, yeah, I'd go get like

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Speaker 3: fifty bags of the grapple.

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Speaker 4: And spread it all out, and you know what, it

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Speaker 4: just looks so good, and you know you, you spread

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Speaker 4: it out and then like six months eight months later,

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Speaker 4: you're like, oh I need I need a freshy.

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Speaker 3: I got to get another fresh low.

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Speaker 1: This has got to get her hit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is so weird and niche, but you know

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Speaker 4: what pea gravels where.

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Speaker 3: It's at all?

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Speaker 2: Right, speaking of your tiny home, I want to know more?

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Speaker 2: Is is d I y? I think I read did you?

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Speaker 2: Did you build this yourself?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So I found I found a builder and his wife.

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Speaker 4: They designed it and they like but they actually built

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Speaker 4: it by hand. But it is like fully one built

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Speaker 4: by hand from top to bottom, and it's customized for

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Speaker 4: like my height and my everything that you touch in there.

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Speaker 4: I considered like everything from like the poured concrete countertops

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Speaker 4: to the tile to the wood floor. I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: it's my dream home.

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Speaker 3: That's I gotta say.

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Speaker 1: That's super cool. Okay, So what's the square footage? I

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Speaker 1: don't know what do you have to be under a

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Speaker 1: certain square footage to be considered a tiny home?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So this is like so I'll tell you before I

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Speaker 4: take this square footage, I'll tell you it's eight feet

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Speaker 4: wide by about thirty two feet long, and it's on wheels.

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Speaker 4: It's on like a proper trailer, and it's like fourteen

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Speaker 4: and a half feet tall, So it's got two lofts

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Speaker 4: and the total actual square footage is like about two eighty.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I think to eighty what house parties look like

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Speaker 2: at the tiny home?

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Speaker 1: I think she's hanging out in the gravel. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: outside parties. Yeah, there's nothing all that I mean right,

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Speaker 1: based on how you're describing it, sounds amazing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, here's the dirty secret.

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Speaker 4: Nobody tells you about tiny homes. You Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 4: simpler life.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: I only have like a couple of pairs of socks

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Speaker 4: and a couple of T shirts like whatever. But I've

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Speaker 4: got two enormous storage units and I just swapped stuff.

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Speaker 3: H okay, So be prepared to pay for storage units.

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Speaker 1: On a somewhat related note, do you have to pay

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Speaker 1: homeowners insurance on your tiny home? Like? Y? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So so mine?

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Speaker 4: Is it being a DI So a lot of tiny homes,

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Speaker 4: I should say this, A lot of tiny homes are

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Speaker 4: actually r V certified, which means you qualify for RV, like,

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Speaker 4: you know, recreational vehicle insurance. You can get through Guygo,

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Speaker 4: And that is a great way to go, even though

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Speaker 4: most tiny homes are really not very roadworthy, like you

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Speaker 4: don't want to pull them down the highway. You don't

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Speaker 4: want to, you know, it's not a camper. And so

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Speaker 4: if that, if you can get your RV, if you

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Speaker 4: can get your tiny home certified RV, it's a way

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Speaker 4: cheaper option. I did not know that at the time.

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Speaker 4: Mine is just it turns out to be a DIY project,

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Speaker 4: not RV certified, which put me I can't get homeowners

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Speaker 4: insurance because it's on a trailer, you know, basically a

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Speaker 4: trailer but with wheels. But I can get something called

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Speaker 4: excess and Supply Line insurance through Lloyd's of London. And

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Speaker 4: that is actually one of wounds up just winds up

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Speaker 4: being one of our tips, like after we walk through

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Speaker 4: all the different tips of what to do, that's like yours,

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Speaker 4: it's your last resort insurance.

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Speaker 2: That's good to know, all right. I want to talk

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Speaker 2: too about Fortunately we're a little ways removed from the

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Speaker 2: worst parts of the California wildfires, but man significant damage,

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Speaker 2: UH and a lot of people left without a home

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Speaker 2: and with steep insurance claims. And there are some I

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Speaker 2: think California specific insurance realities going on right now, but

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Speaker 2: those are also they seem to be kind of bleeding

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Speaker 2: out to the rest of the country. Can you maybe

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Speaker 2: speak to what's happening in California and how that is

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Speaker 2: kind of, I don't know, just starting to impact the

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Speaker 2: insurance market as a whole.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually, i'd take that question twist it a little

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Speaker 4: and say, you know, can we already saw in the

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Speaker 4: United States most homeowners feeling the impact of other natural

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Speaker 4: disasters all throughout the country, whether they be hurricanes, wild fires, earthquakes, hailstorms,

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Speaker 4: and we saw we put a call out to consumers

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Speaker 4: asking for people to tell us their stories of losing

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Speaker 4: their homeowners insurance or kind of like just astronomical increase

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Speaker 4: in prices, and were just inundated within hours and just

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Speaker 4: received hundreds upon hundreds of detailed stories all over the place.

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Speaker 4: And so we traced back like, Okay, where's this all

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Speaker 4: coming from. So we could see in California it was

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Speaker 4: already you know, the insurance crisis was well underway along

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Speaker 4: with other states as well, but you know, you really

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Speaker 4: thinking about California, and California has a very specific problem.

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Speaker 4: You know, you can see in the headlines leading up

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Speaker 4: to this that there were a couple of major insurance

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Speaker 4: companies that just threw up their hands and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to write.

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Speaker 3: Any more policies in this state.

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Speaker 4: It was like all state state farm and farmers just

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Speaker 4: like walked away and they can legally do that. You know,

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Speaker 4: nobody says like, hey, you have to do business in

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Speaker 4: a certain state.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: That was that that became kind of the norm in

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Speaker 4: a lot of other states, Florida and Colorado, Texas. To

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Speaker 4: some degree, people the company started pulling out. Well.

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Speaker 2: That was often after asking the insurance commissioners for the

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Speaker 2: ability to increase premiums and the insurance commission was like no, sorry,

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Speaker 2: they were like well okay, we got to go or no.

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Speaker 4: Not that much, and they would try to negotiate and

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Speaker 4: they'd just be like, we're not going to do it.

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Speaker 4: Here's the fascinating, like underlying, one underlying thing to think

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Speaker 4: about for California when we think about how this discussion

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Speaker 4: and it's something called prop one oh three and I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure you've probably come across that in your research.

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Speaker 4: It you know, it forms my thinking about it and

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Speaker 4: it's worth talking about here. So insurance companies, as you

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Speaker 4: it's like insurance companies raise their rates in the same

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Speaker 4: way that you get to raise at work. It's retroactive.

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Speaker 4: It's based on what happened in the previous year and

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Speaker 4: then and then they have to apply for the rate

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Speaker 4: and increase. That can take months and months before it's

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Speaker 4: actually granted. If it is granted, and then it goes

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Speaker 4: out into the wider public. So you're looking at and

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Speaker 4: sometimes eighteen, sometimes even twenty four month lag time. So

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Speaker 4: the insurance industry will tell you, oh, we're always trying

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Speaker 4: to catch up. So prop in California, Prop One O

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Speaker 4: three was something that actually regulated this, and then it

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Speaker 4: said it said to the insurance companies, hey, you can

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Speaker 4: only ever look back. You cannot look at future projections.

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Speaker 4: And so many argue that in California, in particular, the

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Speaker 4: insurance people were actually paying a lower insurance rate that

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Speaker 4: was not reflective of the true growing risk in their

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Speaker 4: state of natural disasters.

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Speaker 2: Well, people in California were paying what like a third

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Speaker 2: of the price of Florida homeowners for homeowners.

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Speaker 4: Right exactly exactly, So this issue just switched. I read

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Speaker 4: somewhere that has switched just a few weeks before the

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Speaker 4: Palisade fires. I can't confirm that, so don't quote me

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Speaker 4: on that, but it's a very recent development that prop

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Speaker 4: one O three is like a no go and that

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Speaker 4: now insurance companies are allowed to use and I'm guessing,

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Speaker 4: you know, AI and other sophisticated two to do future

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Speaker 4: projections to build their rate increases on those. And so

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Speaker 4: what's going to happen is what was already at work

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Speaker 4: before the Palisades fire was a major so called correction

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Speaker 4: in the market. And it sucks if you're a homeowner

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Speaker 4: there or anywhere where this has happened. But this correction

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Speaker 4: is what is just hit people with I would say,

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Speaker 4: without warning. If you're not you know who pays attention

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Speaker 4: to the like home insurance point market, you know, you

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Speaker 4: only really notice it when the letter comes to you

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Speaker 4: and it's like we're not renewing you for next year.

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Speaker 1: Sure, which feels a bit more extreme. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's worth highlighting the fact that we're talking about California,

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Speaker 1: not just because we have a lot of listeners out

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Speaker 1: in California, but the fact that this trickles out to

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Speaker 1: these insurers what they're charging their bottom line all across

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Speaker 1: the country. So this impacts us like the fires out there,

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Speaker 1: they impact us directly. Do you have an idea of

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Speaker 1: how much of an impact Just general inflation has impacted,

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Speaker 1: increasing premiums as opposed to kind of stue these just

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Speaker 1: a rise in natural disasters as well.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: The industry points to a lot of reasons as to

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Speaker 4: why homeowners might have seen a small increase, a twenty

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Speaker 4: percent increase, or losing your insurance altogether. One of them

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Speaker 4: it has to do with the replacement costs, the replacement

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Speaker 4: value of your home, and so unlike car insurance, home

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Speaker 4: insurance is typically based on how much would it cost

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Speaker 4: to replace your home today if natural you know, if

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Speaker 4: a disaster occurred, Whereas like with your car, when you

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Speaker 4: ensure your car, it is the it is what's called

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Speaker 4: the actual replacement costs, and that is like that's why

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Speaker 4: you get you know, when they total it out, they

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Speaker 4: give you like a couple thousand dollars and they're like,

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Speaker 4: here you go. You know, this is all you could

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Speaker 4: really get on the market because it depreciates, whereas like

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Speaker 4: homes are different. But one of the reasons that they've

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Speaker 4: cited is that labor costs and material costs. Dude, inflation

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Speaker 4: like went up in the last couple of years basically

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Speaker 4: since the pandemic, at least forty percent, if not higher.

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Speaker 4: And so the industry points that says, well, look, replacement

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Speaker 4: costs for us have increased, and so we're going to

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Speaker 4: pass that cost onto you in the form of a

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Speaker 4: higher premium or reduced benefits.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of both. In I guess,

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Speaker 1: like we've obviously got higher prices, but then I mean,

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Speaker 1: it certainly seems like that there's been an uptick in

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Speaker 1: claims that have been filed due to natural disasters.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there's two hidden factors.

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Speaker 4: One of them we talk about, and that's the reinsurance market,

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Speaker 4: and the other we don't talk about because it's not

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Speaker 4: very well understood. So let's start with the reinsurance market. So,

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Speaker 4: insurance companies get their own insurance against losses, and it's

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Speaker 4: called reinsurance, which is a silly name, but in essence,

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Speaker 4: they buy insurance on the international market, and that international

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Speaker 4: market is not regulated whatsoever, and that market really shores

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Speaker 4: up like State Farm or All State or Geico or

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Speaker 4: whomever you're getting your insurance from. In the case that

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Speaker 4: they need like they're in a position where they need

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Speaker 4: a lot of cash quickly to pay out claims. So

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Speaker 4: that reinsurance market, from the best government data that we

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Speaker 4: can find out, the amount of money that insurance companies,

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Speaker 4: our insurance companies have to pay to get that insurance

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Speaker 4: has like doubled in the last just like two years.

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Speaker 4: It's costing State.

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Speaker 3: Farm more money to ensure you. So that's one. That's

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Speaker 3: one thing.

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Speaker 4: The second bucket is the bond and stock market, and

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Speaker 4: so insurance companies basically securitize risk and they resell it

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Speaker 4: in the form of catastrophic bonds. That's a primary way

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Speaker 4: that they also invest in the market. And those catastrophic

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Speaker 4: bonds are not very they're not very attractive to investors

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Speaker 4: these days, and it's you know, with good reason because

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Speaker 4: more natural disasters are probably on the horizon, and so

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Speaker 4: investors have moved away from these bonds.

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Speaker 3: But these bonds are important.

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Speaker 4: They help these companies basically, it's like a third layer

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Speaker 4: of protection for them and making it more difficult. All

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Speaker 4: of this basically trickles down to your premium price going up,

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Speaker 4: going up, and then really going up or losing your

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Speaker 4: insurance altogether.

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Speaker 1: It's basically just harder for these insurance to do business

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Speaker 1: on all fronts. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it feels like we as consumers, we've reached

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Speaker 2: kind of a tipping point where we're like, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: assumed that my mortgage was kind of sort of knowable

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Speaker 2: moving into the future, but with incredible, you know, property

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Speaker 2: tax hikes alongside insurance costs going up at a ridiculous clip. Wow, man,

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Speaker 2: my mortgage payment went up by more than I assumed.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any tips for people out there shopping

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Speaker 2: around for coverage when it comes to trying to save

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Speaker 2: money on your homeowners insurance policies? Maybe like the dues

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Speaker 2: and the dun'ts, because there are definitely some ways that

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Speaker 2: you can harm yourself shopping her up for coverage, but

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Speaker 2: then there are other ways that you really can legitimately

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Speaker 2: save right in an environment of rising costs.

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Speaker 4: This is the most orring tip, but it is the

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Speaker 4: best one, and it is also the one that's least understood.

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Speaker 4: But it's to get your credit score as high as

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Speaker 4: you can. That credit score will be used as part

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Speaker 4: of a secret algorithm that companies use to assess your

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Speaker 4: ability to pay.

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Speaker 3: And just assess you as a customer.

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Speaker 4: To get you the lowest It helps with getting the

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Speaker 4: lowest possible premium price. Insurance brokers don't talk about it.

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Speaker 4: They might casually mention it if they happen to see

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Speaker 4: that your credit score is like below seven hundred, But

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Speaker 4: I would say that the brokers I've interviewed don't their

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Speaker 4: articulation of this problem is or that that's as a solution.

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Speaker 4: It's actually pretty thin. This gets us into a credit

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Speaker 4: score discussion, but really quickly, it's really good to know

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Speaker 4: that you can download all three of your credit reports

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Speaker 4: at annual credit report dot com and that's all three

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Speaker 4: bureaus feed into that Equifax, TransUnion and Experience, and by

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Speaker 4: law you're allowed to get that basically free every week

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Speaker 4: to check for like mistakes and duplications and you know,

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Speaker 4: identity theft you can check on there and then appeal

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Speaker 4: and that that all of that like can help increase

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Speaker 4: that score by a ton. And it's always good to

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Speaker 4: just kind of keep your you know, keep your eye

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Speaker 4: on what that score is. But actually that can also

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Speaker 4: help with car insurance as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems to you would think, Lisa, that like

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Speaker 2: the advent of the internet would make it easier to

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Speaker 2: shop around for insurance rates. But no, yeah, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem like it has right, really weird, but you would think,

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Speaker 2: oh man, this like there are some things it's been

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Speaker 2: become more transparent to shop for, like tennis shoes, but

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Speaker 2: not insurance. Do you like literally have to pick up

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Speaker 2: the phone call a bunch of different companies, Like, how

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Speaker 2: do you suggest people do it?

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Speaker 3: No, so check it out.

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Speaker 4: The internet is like a fine place to start if

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Speaker 4: you just want to get a grip on what's out there.

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Speaker 4: But honestly, the best way and actually the safest way,

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Speaker 4: is to find a local broker, like a real human

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Speaker 4: being who works and you know, the key here is

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Speaker 4: an independent So a local independent broker who can get

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Speaker 4: quotes from any company that your state will allow you

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Speaker 4: to work with, and even then some like even outside

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Speaker 4: of the state.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's what I did for the tiny house.

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Speaker 4: And they can scan, they can scan, you know, really

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Speaker 4: like your big companies. Any state sponsored plans that fall

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Speaker 4: into the fair category, this is a This is a

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Speaker 4: type of state sponsor insurance that people sometimes have to

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Speaker 4: get if they can't get typical homeowners insurance, which is

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Speaker 4: what's going to happen in California and definitely other states

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Speaker 4: that are hit by natural disasters. We often think about like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we need to save money, but honestly, what you're really

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Speaker 4: looking for is the best value for the money that

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Speaker 4: you're paying. So you you want to make sure that

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Speaker 4: you have all the correct and proper amount of coverage

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Speaker 4: and the amount of coverage that your bank requires, because

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Speaker 4: most people have a mortgage, and that's why you know,

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Speaker 4: if you have a mortgage, you almost certainly have to

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Speaker 4: have of homeowners insurance so that broker can help you

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Speaker 4: sort through the coverage and help you actually make true comparisons.

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Speaker 4: If you're left with like trying to decipher that on

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Speaker 4: the internet by yourself, you can wind up with a

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Speaker 4: policy we're like, oh, look, I'm saving so much money,

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Speaker 4: and then not understanding that on the back end that

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Speaker 4: the coverage is so poor or it's not it's just

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Speaker 4: not robust enough in the event you actually need to

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Speaker 4: use that insurance, so find somebody local.

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Speaker 2: You're making me think too about the fact that Consumer

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Speaker 2: Reports has a list they update every year of the

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Speaker 2: best and worst insurance companies. Oh yeah, we're doing that again, Okay, great, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I'm curious you talk about finding the best value. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's say the top two are typically what AMIICA and

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Speaker 2: USAA are top two in the rankings essentially perennially. What

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Speaker 2: if I contact those companies and the annual homeowners insurance

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Speaker 2: premium is five thousand dollars and I go down to

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Speaker 2: some of the ones that are kind of mid ranked,

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Speaker 2: and it's more like three thousand dollars a year, but

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Speaker 2: it's sim or coverage. How do you help people think

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Speaker 2: through that trade off of value in homeowners insurance and

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Speaker 2: whether or not maybe it's worth it to pay more

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Speaker 2: for a company that's ranked more highly.

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Speaker 4: Well, I would be asking, I mean that kind of

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Speaker 4: difference that you just pointed out, I would be very suspect,

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Speaker 4: and I would be like, Oh, there's got to be

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Speaker 4: some detail in here that is that I'm not understanding.

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Speaker 4: Where it might look like the same coverage, but it

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Speaker 4: actually might not be, or it might be predicated on

395
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,360
Speaker 4: moving all your autos to that same policy as well,

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Speaker 4: and you may not realize that. And that's why I

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Speaker 4: love I just I love telling people to find a

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Speaker 4: broker just to help you work through that so that

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Speaker 4: you're not sitting there on, you know, on a screen saying, Oh,

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Speaker 4: that looks so much cheaper.

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Speaker 3: Why is that? Why is that?

402
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Speaker 4: Just you should be asking why? And then and then conversely,

403
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Speaker 4: why is that one? You know, if there's an outlier

404
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 4: here that's super expensive? What is that coverage all about?

405
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Speaker 4: Why is that so much more? And you know, and

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Speaker 4: I hate to say it, but it's like it requires

407
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Speaker 4: a lot of you know, you need to be willing

408
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Speaker 4: to educate yourself on and use the vernacular of the

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Speaker 4: insurance industry to help and help it. You're broker, and

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Speaker 4: it's an unfortunate reality. And you know, it used to

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Speaker 4: be the case that you could just renew the policy

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Speaker 4: every year and not think about it like it was

413
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 4: just on your run autopilot. And the way that insurance

414
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 4: has changed in the last couple of years, that is

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Speaker 4: just unfortunately not the case.

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Speaker 1: What about high deductibles, because that's I mean when it

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Speaker 1: comes to us, especially with like auto insurance, But that's

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Speaker 1: something that we advocate for sometimes if you are willing

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Speaker 1: to accept a little more risk yourself and have those

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Speaker 1: cash reserves on hand, that can significantly reduce your premiums

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Speaker 1: as well. Are you Are you a fan of that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I am to the point that it makes sense

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Speaker 4: for you and realize this. You can ask for something

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Speaker 4: called a split deductible, and you could say, okay for

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Speaker 4: all the regular stuff like oh, a pipe bursts inside

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Speaker 4: my house or a tree falls on the house. You know,

427
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Speaker 4: sort of like your run of the mill. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's not a disaster, but it's like a run of

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Speaker 4: the mill problem. Or you're going to have a normal claim.

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Speaker 4: That's one thing. But for fire, you know, flood policies

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Speaker 4: or separate policies. But for other types of maybe it's

432
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Speaker 4: wildfire coverage or hail coverage, you can ask for a

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Speaker 4: different see if that insurance company offers a different and

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Speaker 4: maybe even higher deductible for that, and that also will

435
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Speaker 4: help bring that premium down. But just you know, be

436
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Speaker 4: realistic about it. I mean, if I had a like

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Speaker 4: it would be ridiculous if I had a twenty thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars deductible. I can't, like, I don't have twenty grand

439
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 4: just sitting around and I'm never going to have that.

440
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 3: But you know, something more like.

441
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 4: Five that seems okay, Ten seems all right, But you

442
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 4: know it's gonna be It's gonna be your comfort level,

443
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 4: and then be sure that you actually know where you're

444
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 4: going to get that ten grand from or twenty thousand

445
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 4: from you got it, and then yeah, you know, and

446
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 4: this is one other thing too, uh, something that a

447
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 4: lot of people have missed in these discussions, and that

448
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 4: is if you have really expensive items, specific items, get

449
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 4: separate lines of policy for those like the say, musical

450
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 4: equipment or precious art, jewelry, guns, I mean, whatever, you know,

451
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 4: whatever the thing is that record collection I've got, like

452
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 4: an enormous record collection that is keep ensured separately. And

453
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 4: then in the story okay, okay, which have a separate policy,

454
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 4: take those items that are like extremely valuable, the antiques

455
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 4: or whatever, and write get written separate policies on those,

456
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 4: either through the insurance company or through even a secondary

457
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 4: like I'm just thinking about musical equipment.

458
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: Musicians.

459
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 4: Friend is a great place that many musicians will you know,

460
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 4: if you've got I don't know, studio is worth of

461
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 4: equipment or precious musical instruments, it's worth getting separate policies.

462
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 4: And then you can reduce that personal coverage amounts, which

463
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 4: can also help lower that deductor.

464
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: All right, Lisa's great advice. So far, We've got a

465
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,719
Speaker 2: lot more we want to get to about homelewer desserns,

466
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 2: but then also health insurance and medical bills too. You

467
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 2: write a lot about that, so we'll get to some

468
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 2: of our questions about those tough topics right after this.

469
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: Right, we are back from the break talking with Lisa

470
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: Gill from Consumer Reports, and Lisa, let's take like, let'szoom

471
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: out a little bit as we're talking about homeowners insurance,

472
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: let's talk about taking risk when it comes to where

473
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: it is that folks are building homes. Right the Journal

474
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: there is an article actually that discussed how people want

475
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: to build and live in risky places, places that you

476
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: know there's maybe a higher chance of having your house

477
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: burned down or getting hit by a storm, but they

478
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: don't want to bear the brunt of market rate insurance

479
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: costs in order to have the luxury or the nicety

480
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: of living in an area like that. It seems like

481
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: something's got to give. How do you think about this

482
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: sort of I don't know, you're kind of stuck between

483
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: a rock and a hard place if you are in

484
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: a more disaster prone area.

485
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 4: So I'm thinking about like the people that live like

486
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 4: right on a coastline. That is a tip you know,

487
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 4: that is a type of home that is not going

488
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: to be like a typical middle class home. Those are

489
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 4: going to be probably more expensive homes. And I'm thinking

490
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 4: it's also people that are not using traditional mortgages to

491
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 4: pay for their homes, which can actually be very good

492
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 4: thing because it allows you to use different kinds of

493
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 4: insurance products that is not maybe not a typical like

494
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: state farm plan or an all state plan. Something does

495
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: have to give and what might you know in thinking

496
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 4: about that those other so I'm referring to basically what's

497
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 4: called access in supply line insurance, and this is what

498
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 4: covers like DIY structures, Like if you live in a

499
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 4: high intent or in a tiny home or something that

500
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 4: you've built that just falls outside the typical insurance plan,

501
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 4: or a multi multi multimillion dollar home that's just not

502
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 4: going to be covered by a typical homeowners plan, it

503
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 4: launches you into this this excess in supply line space,

504
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 4: which is not typically regulated or really at all by

505
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 4: your state or even our federal government. It's just like

506
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: it's on the private market, and it often means that

507
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 4: you're gonna it's almost like commercial insurance, You're not going

508
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 4: to have the same level of coverage. You're going to

509
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 4: have really large deductibles and maybe more more limited. It

510
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 4: may not be the actual replacement costs.

511
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: So I know that. I think your question is.

512
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 4: Getting at like, oh, we shouldn't build on the coasts anymore,

513
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 4: and you know it's all afford.

514
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: It, you know, yeah, No, I guess what you're highlighting

515
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: here is the fact that those individuals are like when

516
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: you like insurance, pool's risk and I guess there's a

517
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: there's an aspect of folks seeing houses burned down or

518
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: homes being built, you know, in Florida right on the coast,

519
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: and it's just like man like that's causing everybody's race

520
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: to go up. But what you're highlighting here is that

521
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: because of these excess and supply lines, a lot of

522
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: these individuals are they're not getting the typical run of

523
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: the mill state farm amik A USAA kind of policy.

524
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: They're getting these Lloyds of London's policies that they're having

525
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: to go out individually and secure.

526
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 4: Is that right, yeah, or they're going without a policy.

527
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: I mean, people that have a very high means may

528
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 4: not have that, you know, they may not want to

529
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 4: deal with insurance companies because they could afford to basically

530
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 4: rebuild on their own.

531
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: But some of those people can't write. And that's right,

532
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 2: I think when you look at the statistics, and this

533
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: was something that shocked me, forty percent of homeowners in

534
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: the United States don't have a mortgage, like they have

535
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: a paid off home, which bottles to mind, like when

536
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: you to anybody who owns a home and they're like.

537
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: How did you pay your mortgage? Jobs they just kept living.

538
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: There's a lot of the time it must be okay

539
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: boomer kind of thing, right, But what would you say

540
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: to those people who maybe do have a paid off

541
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: home and they're thinking, I'm going to go it alone.

542
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: I'm going to risk it and I'm gonna drop the

543
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: insurance cause it's getting too dard expensive.

544
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty risky too.

545
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you definitely don't want to do that.

546
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: That I mean, I mean, if you if you are

547
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 4: somebody like you're not a celebrity or a retired like

548
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: professional athlete, I mean, having coverage is essential, and it's

549
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 4: because you don't know when disaster is going to strike,

550
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 4: and you especially you know, I would say, especially if

551
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 4: if your home is your primary asset, you want it

552
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: covered and you could I mean even baseline coverage, just

553
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 4: something even catastrophic coverage to make sure that you're just

554
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 4: like not high and dry in case like the worst

555
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 4: of all scenarios happens, and there are you know, and

556
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 4: you can get catastrophic coverage I mean through your typical

557
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 4: insurance companies, and you can get it through a Lloyd

558
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 4: of London, Lloyds of London, you could get through AIG.

559
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: There are different there are different types of policies. I

560
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 4: think maybe also inherent in your question is not just

561
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 4: multimillion dollars on the coastlines, but you know people building

562
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 4: in the interior, like maybe in Colorado or Montana, or

563
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: you know, places that have a higher wildfire risks that

564
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: maybe people didn't understand when they were first building. I mean,

565
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 4: that's that's another possibility too, And I would say you're

566
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: in for a surprise, you know, when you try to

567
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 4: go insure it. And the advocacy policy is trying to

568
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: get homeowners to build in places that are less risky.

569
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 4: And I mean you said it it's all about managing risk,

570
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 4: and it's like, what's your risk tolerance?

571
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: And I think you have to be I will say this,

572
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: I think you have.

573
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 4: To be realistic about what your risk tolerance is and

574
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 4: what you actually can afford. I think that most Americans

575
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 4: have a very inflated view about what they can afford,

576
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: and that's what leads us to like crazy credit card dead.

577
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely sure. Where As we were just asking about

578
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: folks voluntarily for going coverage, but what if somebody receives

579
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: like a letter in the mail, they get that cancelation notice,

580
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: it's involuntary, and they're like, hey, you're no longer going

581
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: to be covered. What can folks do about that?

582
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 3: Yeah? You know, I will say this.

583
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 4: I spoke to a number of consumers who that letter

584
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: sat around when they got in the mail and they

585
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 4: didn't open it because they were just accustomed to having it,

586
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 4: you know, their insurance renewed, and then opened it and were.

587
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: Like, holy what this is Like I didn't expect that.

588
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 4: So if this happens to you at any point, whether

589
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 4: you open it immediately or you've accidentally waited, the first

590
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 4: of who do is call up the insurance company directly

591
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 4: ask them for an extension, because they're going to give

592
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: you a date they're going to say, hey, in thirty

593
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: days or sixty days, ninety days. Sometimes I've spoke to

594
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: consumers where it was a year. But if it's if

595
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: it's a really small time, short window of time, small

596
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: window of time, call them up and ask like it's

597
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 4: a courtesy. They don't have to do it, but can

598
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: you extend this another thirty days while I'm able to

599
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 4: either address your concerns or shop around for new coverage.

600
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 4: And you know, it works about half the time, but

601
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 4: it is, it's definitely worth trying.

602
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: Sometimes those concerns are the insurance company says, oh, hey

603
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: that the tree, the tree is touching the roof, or

604
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: it's like small repairs that you need to do around

605
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: your home to stay insured too.

606
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 3: Right, that's exactly right.

607
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 4: So that's the next question to ask is like ask,

608
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 4: either through your broker or directly, why am I being dropped?

609
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 4: And then and then they may be able to show

610
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 4: you satellite images and they say, oh you've got yeah,

611
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: you've got trees hanging over the roof, or your roof

612
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 4: looks old damage and you need to repair it. So

613
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 4: you're you're going to want to find out why. And

614
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 4: then and then your next thing is like two steps.

615
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 4: You're going to want to appeal the decision, and you're

616
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 4: going to want to fix find out if it's if

617
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: any of this is fixable, like do you need to

618
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: trim back branches? Do you need a new roof? Do

619
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: you need to make a roof repair? Is there something

620
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: that that and action you could take to get them

621
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 4: to reverse the decision. But while all that's going on,

622
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: you should be shopping around for another carrier, and that's

623
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 4: why you need the independent broker to help you.

624
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the part of me wonders too if

625
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: it makes sense to like, should folks be scared? You know,

626
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: like what if someone gets that letter and I can

627
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: see a lot of folks freaking out. I think I'd

628
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: be concerned if they're just like, we're going to straight

629
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: up drop your tail, you know, Like yeah, but like, yeah,

630
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if I'm wondering if some folks out there

631
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: would see that and immediately freak out and just pay

632
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: unnecessary amounts of money to repair something that maybe doesn't

633
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: need to be repaired. And I guess that's where you're

634
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: saying to kind of push back a little bit, Yeah,

635
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: appeal the decision to say Hey, you're complaining about my roof,

636
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: but like that roof is only eleven years old, it's

637
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: good for twenty to twenty five years, is it sort

638
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: of having that kind of conversation with the ensure?

639
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: Oh yes, So I spoke to consumers where that exactly

640
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: what you just said happened, and they said, look, I'm

641
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: going to bring in a couple of roofers. We're going

642
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: to take pictures, and I'm going to get their statements

643
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: to submit to you that this is actually a new

644
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: roof and that the shadow that you're looking at is

645
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 4: you know, is actually just a shadow, it's not a

646
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: damaged roof.

647
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: And that actually worked. That worked for a number of people.

648
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: And so I would say fighting back is like you

649
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: have to be a proactive of it sucks and nobody.

650
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: Wants to do this. You have to be a pro.

651
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to do this.

652
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: We have other stuff, have other stuff, but here, yeah,

653
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: right right, you have a problem.

654
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: But you know what, here's why. Here is why you're

655
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 3: fighting back.

656
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: If you don't take any action or your lax of

657
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: days ago about it, and the bank gets wind of

658
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 4: this and they find out that you are suddenly not covered.

659
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 4: They are going to put their own insurance on you

660
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: called forced place insurance. This is like this is like

661
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 4: for bad kids, and you're gonna get You're gonna get

662
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 4: coverage that is really expensive and not very good.

663
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: So like the Cobra equivalent of U of POTS insurance

664
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: really expensive, not so great. On a note, can we

665
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: talk about health insurance? Uh, that's no walk in the

666
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: park either when it comes to expenses there with medical

667
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: bills being the number one cause of bankruptcy, Like, what

668
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: are some of the ways that you would recommend for

669
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: folks to protect themselves?

670
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 4: Actually it's the same, it's the same issue. And you

671
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: know what, I love that you bring up Cobra and

672
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 4: then we all laugh because it's like at Insider's insurance

673
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: joke and it totally was funny.

674
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, three thousand dollars a month? Who can't afford that?

675
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: It's just like, wait, actually pays for this is.

676
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: A lot of people actually do. So it's as similar problem.

677
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: It's like you got you're gonna have to fight against

678
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: insurance company to get it down to an amount that

679
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 4: you actually can't afford. And the first thing to do

680
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 4: is not ignore the bill, even if it just looks

681
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: like to check it out. A lot of times you

682
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 4: go to let's say you go to the hospital or

683
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 4: you get a plan procedure, or even go to the

684
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 4: doctor's office and you get the bill and the mail

685
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, it's from you know, doctor Lisa

686
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: Gill and look it's ten thousand dollars and you're like, huh,

687
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 4: but I have insurance. Why am I getting sent this bill?

688
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 4: You got to call up at that point, you got

689
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 4: to call up the provider and say, look, why didn't

690
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: you put this through my actual insurance. Why are you're

691
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 4: sending me like the full amount? And they go, oh,

692
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 4: we're just sending you that, you know, just to let

693
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: you know, and you're like yeah, and they say they

694
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 4: might say like, oh, it says on the bottom this

695
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 4: is not a bill, and you're like, yeah, it looks

696
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 4: like a bill, and you set an envelope with it.

697
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: So it feels like a bill.

698
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: But but really that you make that first phone call

699
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 4: like hey, I want to make sure you've got my

700
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 4: correct insurance information and here, you know, here, here's all

701
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 4: the data. You know, it's all of this is like numbers,

702
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: so like every number can get numbers can get inverted,

703
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 4: that it can be off and like one little thing

704
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: can mean that it does that that ten thousand dollars

705
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 4: bill doesn't go all the way through into your insurance

706
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 4: because they've made a mistake on their end.

707
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: So you got to call make sure did you make

708
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: a mistake? No? Okay.

709
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 4: Next thing you're going to do is wait then for

710
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 4: the insurance company to send you what the actual explanation

711
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 4: of benefits it are and to see if you owe

712
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 4: anything at that point, so you're kind of you're in

713
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 4: a waiting game.

714
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: But stay on it.

715
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 4: Don't assume that it's all over until you see what

716
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 4: the insurance company is going to cover. And that's assuming

717
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 4: you have insurance and that you're going to use insurance.

718
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: As a friend of the show who recently passed away,

719
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: our friend Marshall Allen would have said, never pay the

720
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: first bill. Yeah, never pay the first bill, right, don't

721
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: ignore that, Yeah, don't ignore it, but also don't pay

722
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: it because you're waiting for the insurance company to work

723
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: it out with the provider.

724
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.

725
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 2: Let's talk about like credit scores and past two medical

726
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: bills and how like let's say you do ignore do

727
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: you let it go too long, or you feel like

728
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: you weren't able to come to a resolution. We've we've

729
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: seen a lot of changes when it comes to how

730
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: medical providers are allowed to report your non paid bill

731
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: to the credit bureaus.

732
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 1: Where does that stand?

733
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? So okay.

734
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 4: One one great thing that consumers might have noticed is

735
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 4: that medical bills under five hundred dollars can won't be

736
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 4: counted on your credit report as of right now. But

737
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 4: there was something even better than that, which was this

738
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 4: that is like pending. It was advanced by the Consumer

739
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 4: Financial Protection Bureau, but the status of that bureau as

740
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 4: well as this rule are also pending and really TVD. Yeah,

741
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 4: and the idea is that all medical debt, no matter

742
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 4: how much it is, would be removed off a credit report.

743
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 4: It couldn't live on there whatsoever. And this is the

744
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: exact reason that you do not want to pay a

745
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 4: medical bill with a credit card, not just like oh,

746
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: here's my forty dollars, copey, here's a credit card.

747
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: I don't mean that.

748
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: I mean like, ohiowe doctor Lisa Gill ten thousand dollars.

749
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 4: I can't afford that, so I'm going to put it

750
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 4: on the credit card. If you do that, you lose

751
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 4: all consumer protections around medical debt and around medical billing,

752
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 4: and including this issue of getting it off of your

753
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 4: credit report so it's counted as a regular just like, oh,

754
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 4: it's part of your VISI bill, it's part of your

755
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 4: Bank of America card. You want to actually not do

756
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 4: it like that unless you can actually pay it off.

757
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 4: The only way actually lives there it is if it's

758
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 4: coded as medical debt. And a lot of times providers

759
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 4: don't actually put that medical debt onto your credit report

760
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 4: if it's unpaid. They wind up selling it to bill

761
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 4: collectors and hopefully it is coded properly as medical debt,

762
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 4: and then the bill collector has to follow certain rules,

763
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: including not putting it on the credit report.

764
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: What about actually negotiating the specific medical bill like with

765
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: a provider. How does that process look different than I

766
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: guess reaching out to an actual insure. Is this something

767
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: that folks can most folks out there can do on

768
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: their own. Is this something that they should be, like

769
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: you said, educating themselves and advocating for themselves.

770
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: So if so, let's pretend you get like one hundred

771
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 4: thousand dollars bill or something where you're just like Wow,

772
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 4: I definitely cannot afford this bill, and the procedure has

773
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 4: already happened. If you have gone to a hospital then

774
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: is public It's hard to know this, but it's a

775
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 4: non nonprofit hospital, publicly funded hospital, and that's like about

776
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 4: three quarters of all hospitals in the United States. You

777
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: should find out what kind of patient assistance they may

778
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 4: offer you if your insurance is not going to cover

779
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 4: or cover very well that bill. And that's actually the

780
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 4: first place to start. And a lot of times these

781
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 4: hospitals do not want to tell you that they've got

782
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 4: a program. They may be offering like free actual like

783
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 4: free all services free, and so you would be in

784
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: the clear or discountant services depending on your ability to pay,

785
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 4: but you're going to have to go through some administrative

786
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 4: hoops to get it. We always recommend that consumers with

787
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 4: this issue go to dollar four dot org. They catalog

788
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 4: every single patient assistance program in the country for every

789
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 4: single hospital that's a nonprofit hospital. It is literally in

790
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 4: every state, and they will help you hold your hand

791
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 4: through this process. They have recovered like hundreds of millions

792
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 4: of dollars on patients behalf and so I cannot recommend

793
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 4: them enough, But let's pretend that you don't qualify for that.

794
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 4: Your next step is to now you're going to talk

795
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 4: to them about what you can afford, and you want

796
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 4: to make sure that you're able to pay for all

797
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: your other expenses before you pay for your medical debt.

798
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: But you sit down with a hospital administrator or again

799
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 4: the accounting department or any other medical facility, and you

800
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 4: start to talk to them about, what if I paid

801
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 4: you cash up front, will you give me a discount?

802
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 4: Will you give me a twenty percent discount? How about

803
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 4: a thirty percent discount? And start to like work your

804
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 4: way from there, and you know, I've actually skipped over

805
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 4: the most important tip and it's what you do before

806
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 4: all this, and that is you ask for an itemized bill.

807
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 4: So a lot of times the bill that you get

808
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 4: in the mail where they say that this is a bill,

809
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: and they do give you the envelope and they expect

810
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: you to pay it, they're they're only showing you the

811
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 4: top line of those charges, but they're not showing you

812
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 4: every single thing that they charged you for. So you

813
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: got to typically get on the phone and ask, can

814
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 4: you email me an itemized bill of every charge that

815
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 4: you're charging me, and at that point start scanning it

816
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 4: and looking for duplicate charges or charges for stuff that

817
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: you know you didn't get, like certain medications or procedures

818
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: or or just like you're looking for errors. That's the

819
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 4: first place to start, and then you're going to call

820
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 4: them and ask for those errors to be fixed. Second

821
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 4: thing is start looking for like outrageous charges where you're

822
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 4: it's like, there's no way that CT scan is fifteen

823
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 4: thousand dollars.

824
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: That makes no sense.

825
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 4: There are different websites you can go to to check

826
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 4: what those prices should be. And this, again, this sucks.

827
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 4: No consumers should have to do this, but this is

828
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 4: this is the process you're gonna you're gonna have to

829
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 4: engage with if you can't afford the bill, but you

830
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 4: need to pay it or at least address it. If

831
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 4: you get to the point where you are negotiating like

832
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 4: per like per item, you're like, Okay, that that MRI,

833
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 4: that CT scan or that blood test looks so expensive.

834
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 4: U Healthcare blue Book and also fairhealth dot Com can

835
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 4: list out for you each in your zip code at

836
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 4: that hospital, what is the usual and customary charge for

837
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 4: that procedure? Because you might find out you are being

838
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 4: charged way more than what usual customary is, and you

839
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 4: want to make sure that they get that price down

840
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 4: to the normal price that you can.

841
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: This is typically more affordable.

842
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: If you just point that out and you just say, hey,

843
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: this isn't usual in customary do they usually get in

844
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: line pretty quick?

845
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: Not always so not always, which is why sometimes if

846
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 4: you are having trouble with this process, they're not listening

847
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: to you, they're not being helpful to you. If I

848
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: were giving advice to my family, I'd say you need

849
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 4: to hire an outside basically a broker, a type of broker,

850
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 4: a type of negotiator. It's like they're medical billing consultants

851
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 4: that work on your behalf, that take all your information

852
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 4: that you pay them in different ways, and they are

853
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 4: all over the country. You can hire anyone in any state,

854
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 4: and I can give you some resources at the when

855
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 4: we're finished with this to like let listeners know to

856
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 4: places to go look up to find like certified medical

857
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 4: billing consultants. But these folks, I've interviewed a number of them.

858
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 4: These folks are really good ones for not a lot

859
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: of money, will negotiate on your behalf and get these

860
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 4: charges down, get the errors out, and work with your

861
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: insurance company if they need to, and that includes like

862
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 4: filing appeals. Sometimes insurance is being difficult and not willing

863
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 4: to cover certain things, or they've got a dispute about

864
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 4: whether or not you've got prior authorization. That medical billing

865
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 4: consultant can kind of like basically act as a concierge

866
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 4: and help get that nice.

867
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: Well, very cool. We got more to get to with you, Lisa,

868
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: might talk about paying less for drugs. We'll get to

869
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: that more right after this.

870
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: We're back from the break, so they'll talk with Lisa

871
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: Gil talking about navigating insurance, which is no fun, but

872
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: there's obviously a lot of money to be saved if

873
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 2: you can do it well on both the homeowners and

874
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 2: the health insurance fronts. And Lisa, you've also written about

875
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: how to save money on prescription drugs, and yes, you know,

876
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: I think one easy tip would be the go to

877
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,760
Speaker 2: Costco's pharmacy. Typically you're gonna save the most money going there,

878
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: but how else can folks spend less on prescriptions these days?

879
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: And by the way, you can go to Costco's pharmacy

880
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 2: even if you're not a Costco member.

881
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, that's what I love about that. That's like

882
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 4: one of my favorite tips. Really almost in every state

883
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: you can walk into costco, don't have to show the card,

884
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 4: tell them you're going to the pharmacy, and they will

885
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 4: let you rite in.

886
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

887
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 4: People spend a lot of money on prescription drugs. And

888
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 4: the thing that really is terrible is although prescriptions in

889
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: this country are more expensive than almost everywhere in the world,

890
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 4: what most consumers have been experiencing is massive changes in

891
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 4: the actual insurance coverage for their prescription drugs. And this

892
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 4: happens most often in two groups, and that is folks

893
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 4: who get their insurance coverage through their employer or if

894
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 4: you have Medicare, so that's like you're okay, Boomer said,

895
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 4: but Medicare apart d And the reason is that every

896
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 4: year what the insurance companies cover, like which prescription drugs

897
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 4: and how well they cover them, that actually changes and

898
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 4: it changes, and what it can mean is they decide

899
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 4: they're not going to cover something like let's say you

900
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 4: have an insulin. You take insulin because you have type

901
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 4: one diabetes. You can't live without it, and you can

902
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: only take one kind of insulin or you will controlled

903
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 4: on one kind and boom, January one rolls around and

904
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 4: that insulin is no longer covered, and all of a sudden,

905
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 4: it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars instead of the thirty

906
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: five or forty bucks you were used to. So you

907
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 4: start to ask questions of that pharmacist, what is the

908
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 4: lowest possible price that you can get you can offer

909
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 4: me on this medication, even if it means I don't

910
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 4: use my insurance. And honestly, we have found that, like

911
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 4: I don't know how many generic drugs wind up being

912
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 4: more expensive on insurance versus just paying a couple of

913
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 4: bucks out of pocket. And this is this is Mark

914
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 4: Cuban's cost plus Drugs entire business model. It really has

915
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 4: and it showed and if nothing else, along with Costco

916
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 4: showed us that actual markups were huge. And they're just

917
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 4: like it's honestly, it's criminal and they're not breaking any

918
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 4: laws by charging you really high prices, but it's morally

919
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 4: criminal to charge consumers like ten times or one hundred

920
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: times more than what the actual value of that little

921
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: pill is.

922
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 2: And if you don't go through your insurance to get

923
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: the prescription drug, you could save a ton of money,

924
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: so people. But I think then the trade off is

925
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: you're not meaning getting closer to reaching your deductible.

926
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 3: You might not be right.

927
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: You might not be on occasion, if it becomes the

928
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 4: case that you wind up having to pay cash for

929
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 4: really expensive medication and.

930
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: You've you know, you've done all your due.

931
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 4: Diligence, and you're still writing a big check, you might

932
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: be able to submit it to your insurance company as

933
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 4: like a non authorized payment and they might actually cover it,

934
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 4: sometimes at forty percent it's and they might actually put

935
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 4: it towards the deductable. There are some there's a couple

936
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: of situations in California with certain kinds of coverage where.

937
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,959
Speaker 3: By the law, they have to pay it out.

938
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 4: So I know it's a weird hack, but it is

939
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 4: worth you know, it's not worth it if it's like

940
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 4: five bucks, ten bucks, twenty bucks, but if you're if

941
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 4: you're paying out regularly outside of that insurance coverage, it's

942
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 4: worth content them and saying can I submit these as

943
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: like claims, you know, to see if you'll pay for.

944
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: Them, aren't.

945
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: There also discount programs from some of the pharmaceutical companies

946
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: for some of the more expensive drugs, and how would

947
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: a consumer go about looking into those.

948
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 4: This is the case where you take a very like

949
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 4: an insulin, you take a very specific drug, there are

950
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 4: no generic equivalents, and for whatever reason, your insurance company

951
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: is not covering that drug or not covering it very well.

952
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 4: So it might be on like a high tier, or

953
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 4: they've got some crazy cost sharing scheme that is just

954
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 4: costing you a ton of money, or your deductible is

955
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 4: high for the year, and you're just like, I don't

956
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 4: want to pay a thousand dollars or five thousand dollars

957
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 4: before insurance Kickson. One thing to try is manufactured discount

958
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 4: coupon programs or discount copay programs and check this out.

959
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 3: It used to be the case.

960
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 4: So drug manufacturers have become a lot more savvy in

961
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 4: what they offer to consumers because of this insurance issue,

962
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 4: and so they will offer I'm thinking three different kinds

963
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 4: of programs right off the top of my head. One

964
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 4: is a copay program where the drug company, if you

965
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 4: you know, you apply, you give them all your information

966
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 4: and they they're gonna help cover a high copay cost

967
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 4: and they typically cap it out like thirty five bucks

968
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 4: or twenty five bucks something like that, and you're gonna submit,

969
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 4: you know, you'll go through your insurance like normal, and

970
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 4: they're gonna they're gonna help reimburse you and that that.

971
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 4: Sometimes they do that up to a limit, but it's

972
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 4: it's a totally worthy program. In some places still only

973
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 4: offer that, but other what we've noticed is that there

974
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 4: are other ones where they'll say, hey, you have you

975
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 4: have commercial insurance, but you're not going to use.

976
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: It, so let's help.

977
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 4: Let's help get that full cash price down to twenty

978
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 4: five dollars or thirty five dollars, so you don't even

979
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 4: you don't even use your insurance even if you have it,

980
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 4: And that's that's a great that's a great option when

981
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: that happens. The third is patient assistance programs, and those

982
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 4: are usually income based, and so you're gonna have to

983
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 4: fill out some forms, maybe show your tax returns, show

984
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 4: that you make under a certain amount, and it's typically

985
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: under one hundred thousand dollars, which is incredible, and so

986
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 4: in some places it's even higher than that, and you

987
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 4: can get medication for free.

988
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: Awesome. I had no idea that those options are out

989
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: there for folks. It's super cool. Lisa, we really appreciate

990
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: you talking with us today. We'll make sure to link

991
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: to So you mentioned dollar four and that's f o R.

992
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: Is that right, Yes, that's.

993
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 3: Right dollar four dot org.

994
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, dot org. Nice. We'll make sure to link to that.

995
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: And we're going to have you send us some of

996
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: those different consultants, those folks who advocate on your behalf

997
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: as well, because we want to make sure to be

998
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: able to link to a lot of those folks. Where

999
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: else can folks find out what what you've been up to?

1000
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what, consumer reports dot org. A lot

1001
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 4: of the stuff I write about is available for free,

1002
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 4: including tips on how to get insurance, like your insurance down,

1003
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 4: healthcare coverage, drug calls, credit scores, credit reports.

1004
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: You name it. But it's actually available there.

1005
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 4: Or you can always do a search for Lisa Gill

1006
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 4: and consumer reports.

1007
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: You're just writing about all the trickiest industries in the

1008
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 2: United States.

1009
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: I get all the stuff that nobody wants to talk.

1010
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 2: A glutton for punishment. Indeed, Lisa, thank you for joining yesterday.

1011
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: We appreciate it.

1012
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. This has been fun, all.

1013
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: Right, Joel insurance man, it's a necessary It was a

1014
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: fun conversation, but also a necessary one. I'm glad we

1015
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: were able to to speak with Lisa today these days,

1016
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: my goodness. Yes, that's why we wanted to talk about

1017
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: this now, higher prices all around. What was your big

1018
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: takeaway from our conversation?

1019
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: I think, actually right if we stop recording, One of

1020
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: the things we briefly touched on was the fact that

1021
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: as a consumer, you just have to be vigilant. You

1022
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 2: have to question everything, don't accept what comes your way,

1023
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: whether it's a price hike from your homeowners insurance company,

1024
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: whether it's a medical bill from a provider that you saw.

1025
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: And I just think that's true, Like, you have to

1026
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 2: be vigilant, and that was part of the theme of

1027
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: this episode. You have to if you get some sort

1028
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: of non renewal notice, you gotta fight your insurance company

1029
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: and say, wait, wait a second, why what's going on here?

1030
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 2: And or if you know your rate hike goes up

1031
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 2: and you're like, why is this so expensive? Now, it's

1032
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: worth asking the question and kind of popping your insurance

1033
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: company in the nose and figure out why, or getting

1034
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: hiring someone to work on your behalf, whether that if.

1035
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: You don't like violence, hire somebody else to be violent

1036
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: exactly on your behalf, right.

1037
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: I'm all for that, and I think some people are

1038
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: maybe gravitated towards that more naturally than others. Some people

1039
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: are more just pacifist by nature, and they just kind

1040
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: of take it on the chin, they accept it. But

1041
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: especially in this environment of and how what's at stake here,

1042
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: you have to figure out how to lean into that.

1043
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: Your money's on the line, you know, Yeah, navigate.

1044
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: The expensive nature of insurance these days. It's kind of

1045
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 2: on your shoulders.

1046
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it

1047
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: should be that's the way our system set up though. Yeah, okay,

1048
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: So my takeaway then is going to be she said

1049
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: as turned but I've never heard before, and it's when

1050
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about homeowners insurance, and she mentioned a split deductible,

1051
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: which I'm going to totally look up and see if

1052
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: this is something that's available to me. If I have

1053
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: the ability to raise my deductible for more catastrophical like

1054
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: events on our property while keeping a separate deductible that's

1055
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: a bit lower for things that aren't as big of

1056
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: a deal. Dude, I might do that. I didn't know

1057
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: about that either Yeah, that's pretty cool, which I almost clarified,

1058
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: but I was like, no, she said split deductible. So

1059
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: it's a new term. I know we've never talked about

1060
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: it here on the show because I've never even heard

1061
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: of it. But I'm totally going to look into that

1062
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: mess off and if that sounds like something that might

1063
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: be applicable to your situation, well look it up as well.

1064
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: Makes me think of we had a listener question at

1065
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: one time about some type of insurance that was only

1066
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: offered in like the Northeast from a couple of old

1067
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 2: school insurers, but it was able to save that that

1068
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: listener a bunch of money on his insurance costs. I

1069
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: can't even remember the name of that specific insurance right now.

1070
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: It's like one of these it's like one of these

1071
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: original insurance companies. I think this is up like Ben

1072
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: Franklin found the company. Yes, is like in the Boston area.

1073
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so yeah, insurance is one of those things

1074
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 2: where there are all sorts of products that the average

1075
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 2: person doesn't know about, even the average money podcast host

1076
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 2: doesn't know about, because the insurance world can be incredibly complex.

1077
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: But now let's get to the beer. Get back to

1078
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: the beer that we had on this episode. This was

1079
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: called Primordia. It's a oak aged mixed culture sour beer

1080
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 2: by Freak Folk. What were your thoughts on this one?

1081
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: I thought it was not too dissimilar from the one

1082
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: that we had somewhat recently, the one with a cat

1083
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: on it. But this one it had more oaky notes.

1084
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: So that one was aged in wine barrels, and so

1085
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: it kind of had like this funkiness and this kind

1086
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: of mellowed out, smoother flavor that you get I guess

1087
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: when it's aged in wine barrels. But this had like

1088
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: a really punchy, sharp oak flavor, which I am all about.

1089
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: It definitely is mouth puckering, very mouth puckering, and it's

1090
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: like right on the line of too tart. Like I

1091
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: like sours that kind of round out and have like

1092
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of sweetness. These are riding the line of, Man,

1093
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could handle drinking too much

1094
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: more of this because of the tartness, because of the

1095
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: sour aspect.

1096
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: I like my stuff a touch sweeter, yeah, you know

1097
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: how I roll, And I like it a little funkier.

1098
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: The last one had more funk that was bringing to

1099
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 2: the party. This one was more straight up sour, yeah,

1100
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: but brighter and sharper.

1101
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's still really good, like it had the

1102
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: oak going on, which anytime, there's a whole lot of

1103
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: oak flavor. Signed me on your love. I love it absolutely.

1104
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: I like this one too, and I'd be curious to

1105
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: try more beers by these guys for sure.

1106
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: Well, they make a ton of different I pas. It's

1107
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: funny because I started following them that gets Instagram and

1108
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: they keep posting pictures a bunch of like hazy IPAs,

1109
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, dang it. The only thing that

1110
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: we got were these hours and maybe their best beers

1111
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: are actually IPAs. Yeah, I don't know, but these were

1112
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: also fantastic. All right, We'll try some IPAs next time

1113
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: from them. That's gonna do it, though. For this episode,

1114
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: we'll put links to some of the resources that Lisa

1115
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: mentioned up on the website at howtomoney dot com. There's

1116
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of other resources there too for you as well. Matt.

1117
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,