WEBVTT - Where Does Jordan Spieth Go From Here? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.200 And when I find my ball in a brid egg. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.840 Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg Bride Egg. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:13.440 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.120 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.519 I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today I have 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.479 a podcast for you. It is about Jordan Speith. As 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.599 the title may suggest, we've done a couple of these 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.160 podcasts over the last few months. Garrett and Shane Ryan 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.400 did one on Rory McElroy after the US Open. Where's 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.400 you Go from Here? We did one, I did one 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.560 with Joseph Lamanna on Justin Thomas. And today I am 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.959 joined by founder of the of Normal Sport, the Normal 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:16.240 Sport newsletter Something Worth subscribing to, Kyle Porter, as well 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.759 as Joseph Lamania, and we're going to talk in detail 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.360 about Jordan speed. It was fun going back and looking 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.760 at this as his career, you kind of forget a 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.760 little bit all of the success and the records how 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:37.199 great his early career was, like historically great early career, 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.520 and I think coming off this risk injury, we're kind 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.320 of at a crossroads, so I'm excited to jump into that. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.640 Before we get into this pod, let's talk about our 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:53.360 friends at the USGA. 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All Right, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.239 today's topic. I am joined by Kyle Porter and Joseph Lamonia. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:01.160 Today's topic is none other than Jordan Speith, the Golden Boy, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.400 who may have lost a little bit of his shine 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.399 in recent years. Just he's not really a boy anymore too. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.160 What do they turn does he turn into the Golden Man. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.320 I gotta jump in. Is it? Is it the Is 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.480 it the Golden Child or the Golden Boy. Because we 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.280 have gold we also have gold Boy. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.840 Which is well gold boy. I don't know where a 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:26.320 gold boy is these days. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.640 That's that's also true. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.240 He's somewhere buried in the basement of the Global. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.280 Home, maybe just like the Chosen One or something. I 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:36.640 don't know. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.280 It's anyways, I you know, open this up for discussion. 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.000 This is one of the more wild career arcs we've 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.120 had in modern professional golf. And I think he's thirty 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:57.240 one years old. It's a fascinating time in the speek career. Obviously, 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.440 at the end of this year he had a you know, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.520 and throughout the year a risk injury that greatly hampered 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:11.760 his ability to play golf and with pain free and 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.520 he is now reporting pain free in the wrist. And 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:21.120 twenty twenty five is right on the corner. So, as 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.360 you guys look through the career, was there a favorite 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:26.680 moment that you pulled out? 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.120 Go ahead, Kyle, I know you got It's probably hard 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:31.960 for you to narrow down. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:32.640 To one, but go ahead. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:40.000 There's so many. I think that the You know, people 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.080 always think about the Masters with Spieth, right, and I 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:49.120 think that that's pretty obvious. He's competed or contended for 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.640 four or five, like legitimately contended for four or five 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.400 of them. The one that I go back to, though, 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.720 always is is Burtdale. It is twenty seventeen at Burtdale, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.080 and I think that Spith has been an even better 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.520 open player than he's been a Master's player. And his 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.120 like the whole you know, thirty minute hole. I can't 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.280 remember what number it was, twelve or thirteen or whatever 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:17.479 it was, and then he falls back with Coucher, and 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.599 then Coucher plays the rest of the way one under, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.000 like the last whatever it was six holes, I think 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.760 he plays one under and he gets steamrolled by Speed. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.800 And I thought that year and that maybe even that 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.800 event was really Speed at his kind of apex in 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.000 terms of like all his skills working together. And we'll 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.120 get more into that later on, but that to me 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.279 really stands out if I look at the entire Jordan 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:40.960 speed arc. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.400 It's funny you mentioned that one Kyle. I went back 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.080 and rewatched the final round at Brickdale in preparation for 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.680 this pod, and speaf so he hits that wild t 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.440 shot on thirteen and honestly going back and rewatching it 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.479 maybe a questionable drop on if it was actually back 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.960 on a straight line, maybe range I think definitely, Yeah, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.640 I just didn't remember it as much. It looked like 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.800 it was really pushing it. He plays his last five 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.279 holes five under, and that part I don't remember as much. 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.520 Like he sticks the approach shot on fourteen a part 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.400 three almost he almost made it. He almost made it. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.760 And then eagles fifteen, it's unbelievable boat racist couture coming in. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.839 That one really stands out to me. And then the 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.719 other thing is twenty fifteen, how involved he was in 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.400 every single major. It's just unbelievable at that age that 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.640 we had a player who had a legitimate chance of 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.080 winning all four. So that would any of those are 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:35.359 the ones that stand out for me. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.240 I wrote down twenty fifteen, like, is this is the 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.960 closest we've seen to the career or to the Grand 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.960 Slam in a year? You know, one shot out of 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.680 the playoff at Saint Andrews and then you had this 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.920 epic duel with Jason Day at the PGA where it 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.440 was like two guys could win the tournament. They were 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.840 trading blows. That was a like underrated great tournament at 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:03.320 Whistling Straight. With regards to Burkedale Kyle, I I completely agree, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.599 like in terms of like if you if you broke down, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:11.920 like the way Jordan Speith, the dominance of Jordan Speith 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:17.640 in his early twenties was like this chaotic masterpiece, right, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:22.440 like everything was in question, like everything was in the 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.680 realm of possibility, Like you could see just a complete 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.960 foul ball off the tee, a walkie approach shot. But 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.280 at the end of the day, like the thing that 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.440 like you had to say about him was like and 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.080 I think like this was like so evidently clear when 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.240 he played with Rory McElroy at the Masters that one year, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:44.920 Like he he just knows how to get the ball 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.640 in the hole. Yeah, Like he he just has this 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:52.320 innate ability to to just like score. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.160 Yeah. 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:59.400 For me, I go back to the to the at 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:07.240 and Tu National in twenty thirteen, and this was a 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.960 couple of years before I was in golf, and at 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.320 the time I just was playing golf. I watched a 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.000 lot of golf, and I remember watching golf on like 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.760 Friday afternoon and Jordan Speith at the time was nineteen. 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.200 He was playing on a sponsor's exemption, and like I 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.040 remember he shot like I think he shot sixty six 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.880 and he you know, and it's like you're watching this 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.200 kid and it's just like, God, this kid is good. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.240 And at the time, like outside of Tiger, we hadn't 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.079 seen like these like teen prodigies, you know, and this 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.040 youth wave, like Jordan speak to me, is kind of 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.560 at the forefront of this youth wave. He was really 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.400 like the first one. Can't lay. You could argue before 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.320 he had his injuries was what might have been the 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.840 first one. But Jordan Speath is just this teen sensation 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.360 and I remember watching it and just being like, God, 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:08.400 this is so so different. And that tournament and that 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.160 summer obviously he missed Q School, he missed he him 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.000 and Brooks Kopka actually were at the same site. You 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.800 guys know what site they missed at second stage? Did 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:19.480 you find this? 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:20.760 Did not find this? 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:29.800 What course got him? Craig Ranch TPC Craig Ranch, Hey, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:30.640 I hate. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.120 That shoot twenty under and miss out. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:34.160 Yeah something. 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.199 Both of them were like I couldn't putt into the ocean. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.320 I couldn't hit a putt in the ocean, and it's like, well, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.400 maybe that is like the that is like the ultimate 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.800 side that the course is just putting contest and it's 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.160 a bad test of golf. Is that in Q school? 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.000 Both of the there's an article on PGA tour dot 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.040 com where they talk about it, and both of their 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.800 individual quotes were like, yeah, we couldn't. I couldn't hit 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.920 a pot into nocean that week, and it's like these 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.439 two generational talents missed out because they can't put it. 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.320 It was like, I think Brooks was like, I hit 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.440 it great, just but it's like if the course doesn't 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.959 allow you just hit it great and put you know, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.360 average and get out. It's it might have a little 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.680 bit of lack of teeth, but but to me that 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.240 that that tournament. You watched it and it was like, God, 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.280 this kid has got something different. And then sure enough 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.520 he wins a couple of weeks later at the Deer 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.600 Run at Deer Run and uh ends up making it 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.400 deep into the FedEx Cup playoffs and gets a a 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.720 spot on the President's Cup team and it's like kind 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.080 of off to the races from there. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.560 I think what was so interesting about that that sort 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.120 of time period. I remember talking to people that were 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.839 kind of close to it that were like, gosh, is 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.080 this guy is he good? Like you could cause you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:56.800 watch him, I mean, you're you're right, and he like 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.760 you watch him in it in in this what is 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.000 begad come what I kind of call like the track 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.960 man era of guys who have just have these like 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.360 manufactured swings out of a laboratory that are beautiful and 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.880 like perfect and whatever. You watch him and it's like 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.640 this chicken wing thing. It's just it does it never 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.240 looks good. I don't know what the NBA, there's probably 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.280 an NBA comp Joseph where you're like, this doesn't look good. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.120 But he's putting up like twenty seven a night, every 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.679 night and it's pretty efficient, right, And. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:30.320 I feel like the early SGA, early SGA, everybody's like god, 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.960 and it's just like the herky jerkiness. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.040 Of SGA, like Clippers ESGA, No. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.440 Like early Thunder when he when he started, everybody's like, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.640 is he really like one of the ten best players 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:41.240 in the league. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.200 Yeah, okay, that's good. Do you have a do you 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.560 have a different comp Joseph? 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.839 No, I actually like that camp. But maybe I don't 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.520 want to jump ahead too much, but I think what's 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.760 interesting that since you're saying that, Kyle, one thing that 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.280 really stands out to me with speech kind of a 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.880 theory I've had about his entire career is that the 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.600 game has changed an enormous amount since twenty thirteen, twenty 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.400 fifteen to now, and I think Speed's game did not 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.640 does not hold up to the track man era and 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.360 the way that things have gotten so optimized. Jordan Speath 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.800 was always a player who's been making mistakes, and that's 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.319 largely been carved out of the game. Dude, a track man, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.000 course management, all of the above. So when you go 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.320 back and think about, well other players were making mistakes too, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.280 Speith has some weird data anomalies happening. In that era, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.800 he was making twenty five percent of his putts from 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.560 fifteen to twenty five feet, like far in away the 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.559 best putter from that range. It was such a bizarre 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.760 skill set that when I look at this, I think 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.360 a lot of things are true, But it's almost like 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.560 an NBA player who came into the league in like 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.520 twenty fifteen sixteen was really good from the mid range. 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.559 And then that kind of got carved out of the 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.880 league over the next ten years. Like I kind of 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.880 think Speed's game just doesn't suit the modern era, particular. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:01.320 To margin Rosen. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.679 I mean, it's not unreasonable. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.440 So, Joseph, you said a couple of different things in 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.160 there that I think you're saying like they play into 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.120 the same thing, but they're they're very separate to me. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:18.000 One is Speed's swing and swing speed, which I think 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.760 have always been kind of average to above average. And 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.400 the other is this course management, which has obviously been 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:31.679 pilloried on Twitter and elsewhere and has always been average 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.240 to below average. So do you feel like one of 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.520 those plays more into kind of what you're talking about 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.120 with the what what I hear you saying is Speth 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.680 has regressed to kind of his mean over the years. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.280 Do you feel like one of those has played more 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:46.200 into that than the other? 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.800 You know, I think it's both maybe a little bit 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.680 of Speed regressing, but I think the overall baseline and 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.800 professional golf has just gotten a lot higher around him 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.320 to where he can't get away with those mistakes. But 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.720 to your question, I think the course management and the 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.840 big misses is largely responsible here. Like I was watching 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.080 the twenty fourteen final round of the Masters for this, 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:12.800 and he's in the final round with Bubba. I don't 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.400 know if either of you went back and watched this. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.720 Like Jordan's hitting three would off the tee on number eight, 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.040 and that's just something you don't see anybody doing. Now. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.160 He ends up bogeying number eight and that's where he 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.840 gives up his lead to Bubba. Then he boge's number 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.680 nine as well, and Bubba's up by two after Bubba 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.560 Birdie's number nine and the rest is kind of history. 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.880 In that event, I just think in general, you could 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.120 get there was more of a margin for air in 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.200 that era when a lot of golfers weren't optimized. You know, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.560 Jordan's trying to hit these different shots, trying to curve 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.680 the ball and having these big misses, but other guys 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.120 are kind of doing that too. Now that doesn't exist, right, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.280 Like you watch Scotti Scheffler in the way he plays. 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.520 It's speef has to get so hot with the putter 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.280 or be so much more talented than other golfers to 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.240 overcome that, And I just don't think he is. He's 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.200 not the ball striker he was back then. Plus other 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.080 guys are like Scheffler and they're not making those mistakes. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.000 So I just think it's a really uphill battle for 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.120 speed to get in the mix at the highest level 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.760 of professional golf. In twenty twenty four, twenty five. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.040 Speaking to that, I mean, I kind of look at 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:21.440 Jordan Speith and I think, like, we can't know, Like 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.800 I think he had he had a hand injury that 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:28.400 I forgot about, and now he had the risk injury, 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.440 and we can't be sure exactly like how much of 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:36.720 swing changes are caused by these things. But when I 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.640 think about speed, and a question I would have is 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:45.520 like I wonder if in twenty seventeen he felt the 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.960 need to change because he looked at some young players 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.280 and said, wow, like I need to get better at 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.560 X y Z. And I think this is like the 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.400 hard thing at being at the top of the game. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.920 We saw tiger Woods undergo I mean Tiger Woods like 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:07.520 threw away years undergoing swing changes, and it's always wild 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.320 to me. It's like, you're the best player in the world, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.440 And this is something I'm fascinated about with Scotti. Scheffler 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.560 is like he seems just dedicated to his what he 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.720 does and there seems to be no appetite for changing anything. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.440 He's like the most boring creature of habit and that's 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.720 perhaps the best way to keep playing high level golf. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:35.120 But Speith and Cameron McCormick, they seem like they they're restless, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.440 and I think like this is part of what people 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.520 like about Speth and what the magnetism of Speth is. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.760 Like you watch him play and the microphones on him 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.520 and Greller, and there's like this restlessness to him. But 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.400 that restlessness comes through with what he's done with his 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:58.920 golf sway, and he went from being this great great 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.120 tea to green player. He was a very good tee 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:07.200 to green player, and now he is not a great 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.560 tee to green player, but he's a lot faster. And 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.760 I found this thing, this Brandle clip from twenty twenty three. 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:18.840 I watch this. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.679 He called this is what he said about speeces swing changes, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.000 one of the more baffling things I have seen in 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:34.000 twenty plus years. Sitting in this chair. He then went 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.600 and he did a detailed swing breakdown. I'd recommend everybody 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.920 watch it. He's good, really good. Brandal thrown heat here 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.639 and he says, when you look at the swing. You say, 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.800 it's kind of the same, but it's not. Those little 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:54.240 differences have changed his DNA. In twenty fifteen, he was 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.520 riding the bullet train to one of the best players 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.399 of all time. Now he's still a good player, but 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.879 nowhere near as good of a player. He's not in 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.320 the same league as he was in twenty fifteen. And 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.560 I think like he's like I think, like the hardest 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:17.520 thing about golf is an imperfectable game, and you feel, 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.919 you feel, even when you're the best player in the world, 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:27.920 you feel the pressure to perfect this game, and that 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:33.840 pressure to perfect the game leads great players to make 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.840 irrational decisions about how they play the game. And I think, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.200 like when I distilled down Jordan Speth's career, that's kind 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:48.399 of what I see, is like the tinkering is eventually 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.159 is what led to him losing his special sauce. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:59.360 Yeah, And I think I don't think he's talked about 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.159 like all the variables that went into some of those 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.400 swing changes, like oh, well I saw these other guys 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.960 getting faster, or I thought this was more repeatable, or 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.560 I you know, there's there's a million reasons to make 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.679 swing changes, and the brand O. The Brando video is 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.800 it's really fascinating, like talking about how he's more shut 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.320 than he used to be and how I mean if 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.639 you look at the numbers, like he's a he was 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.919 a better driver in twenty twenty four than he's been 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.919 in a long time. Yeah, right, And I think, what, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.200 what's weird and what you don't what we don't know, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.679 and maybe what twenty twenty five will tell us is 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.320 his approach play has gotten so bad and so mediocre 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.960 like that. The thing for me was speed. People talk 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.280 about the putter and like, you know, some of the 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.240 stats that Joseph mentioned there he was the best iron 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.919 player in the world and it wasn't really that close 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.080 in twenty seventeen. I thought that was like the most 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.600 repeatable version of speed, where it's like, okay, this is 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.560 a sticky stat like you're the best iron player more 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.880 so than like chipping in and making thirty footers and whatever. 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.800 And that's the thing that is just consistently since twenty seventeen, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.679 falling off, falling off, falling off, and now he's like 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:16.800 a bad iron player. Now you look at it and 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.320 you're like, okay, how much of that I remember twenty 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.640 seventeen he wins pebble, and there was another top ten 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:27.400 player that was like, this is problematic because it's not 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:33.120 him making twenty footers, it's him hitting it to ten 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.359 feet every time or fifteen feet every time, and that 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.320 is like, he's gotten really good at that, and that's 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.240 a problem because if he's doing that, he's gonna make 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.800 some of those fifteen footers inevitably. And you just wonder 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.320 how much of the wrist was. He's blamed it on 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.800 the rist some in twenty twenty four, but I wonder 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.280 how much of the wrist was playing into his inability 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.400 to hit some of those iron shots that he used 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:55.680 to hit. 0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:59.760 One thing. I think we to zero in on a 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.880 little little bit on this timeline. I feel very strong, 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:07.000 strongly and confident that speeds like iron play and some 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.800 of those issues are not tied to the pursuit of speed. 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.359 Jordan's game drops off a lot in twenty eighteen and 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.119 then really bottoms out in twenty nineteen, and that's not 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.400 a period where Jordan's trying to pick up a bunch 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.760 of speed. That's where I believe, in having talked to 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.120 some people were somewhat close to Jordan like that's when 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.840 I think they really tried to get to figure out 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.240 what was going wrong versus Jordan thinking that speed was 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.960 the difference between him winning and not chasing speed and 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.880 then losing some of the iron play. I don't think 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.720 that's really how the timeline went, So I would throw 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:42.280 the challenge flag on that a little bit. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:43.679 You know. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.040 One of the things I think with Speed is these 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.840 kind of like for golfers, like I think the first 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:52.680 modern modern golfer. 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:53.320 And we talked. 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:55.560 I talked about how he was on the on the 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.280 front edge of the youth movement that we've seen over 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.359 the last decade on the PGA Tour, but he also 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:07.040 was like the first player on the kind of press handling. 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.000 And I think that makes it hard because we've never 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.720 you know, it's always been like this pre arranged appearance 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:19.240 thing and he talks before you know, tournament rounds. But 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.359 there are he I think like Rory like in his 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.399 early career had a little bit more of that traditional 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:29.440 golf media where it was like sit down interviews. He's 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.160 done these Kimmage interviews forever and it's kind of part 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.720 of his thing. Like the Speed thing is like sponsor 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:41.000 shoots pre pre determined press, you know, handlings and like 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.560 you know, with I don't want to say oversight, but 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.760 like you know, it is. I just think he's like 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.240 the most He's the first golfer we've seen in this 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.399 modern era of media where it's really like cultivated. And 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.560 part of that is like it leaves when the careers 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.360 don't go exactly the way you it leaves a lot 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.840 of questions that probably won't get answered until he's done playing. 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:09.080 Until when he's done and he reflects back to and says, 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.520 like the tell all of this is really what happened, 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.359 you know, And it's a it's a fascinating aspect of 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.399 his career. And I think it's what makes one of 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:20.719