Speaker 1: Oh, I'm John Krasinski and I played Jim Helbert on
Speaker 1: The Office. Hello everyone, thanks for stopping by today. You
Speaker 1: know what today feels like, Well, it feels like the
Speaker 1: perfect day for a new episode of the Office Deep Dive.
Speaker 1: Do you see what I did? I am your host
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner, and I am beyond excited, giddy in fact,
Speaker 1: to bring back my main man, John Krasinski for the
Speaker 1: second half of our conversation today, and boy, are you
Speaker 1: in for a treat because this time we go deep. Okay,
Speaker 1: we always go deep, but seriously, I made him blush.
Speaker 1: I made him cry. Well, he didn't quite cry, but
Speaker 1: he did go into details of the way he cries,
Speaker 1: which is all in like everything else he does. I
Speaker 1: even got to well or I was forced to hear
Speaker 1: his sexy voice in my brain, and if I'm honest,
Speaker 1: I would be okay never hearing that again. But maybe
Speaker 1: you'll feel differently now. If you've been listening to this
Speaker 1: podcast since the very beginning, you've heard me talk about
Speaker 1: how the Office is a family a few times. Well,
Speaker 1: John really gets into why that's the case and why
Speaker 1: the Office is not just a family. For the cast
Speaker 1: and crew who were there, but for you too, Yes, you,
Speaker 1: the person listening to this right now. So few shows
Speaker 1: have been able to cross that threshold where it really
Speaker 1: feels like you know the characters that you're watching on
Speaker 1: screen and not to tute our own horns, but I
Speaker 1: really think with this show we achieved that. And that's why,
Speaker 1: no matter how many movies he directs, or how successful
Speaker 1: he becomes, how many billboards he is on, John Krasinski
Speaker 1: will always be Jim Halpert, Everyone's favorite goofy haired prankster.
Speaker 1: So please join me in welcoming back, my old friend
Speaker 1: and yours, John Krasinski. Bubble and Squeak, I love Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squigan. Bubble and Squeaker cook at every month lift
Speaker 1: over from the Night Before. The Office was constructed in
Speaker 1: the opposite way than most comedies, or certainly television comedies,
Speaker 1: where typically the leads are the young lovers and then
Speaker 1: you've got a crazy uncle or the crazy boss that
Speaker 1: that is back in the corner coming No um. This
Speaker 1: show was the reverse which which is which? Which was
Speaker 1: putting and specifically the moments and examining like why Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam, like why that relationship became so important to people?
Speaker 1: And so charged was people weren't watching a half hour
Speaker 1: of it. They were just stealing a moment from the corner,
Speaker 1: which makes you like, I want to lean forward. And
Speaker 1: the other thing was there's an idea that when you generalize,
Speaker 1: it becomes more universal, right, like this is generally who
Speaker 1: this guy is from this midwestern town. But the amount
Speaker 1: of specificity and reality both in those moments between Jim
Speaker 1: and Dwight and Jim and Pam. The opposite is true
Speaker 1: that the more ccific you get, that the character has
Speaker 1: become infinitely more real and therefore universal and relatable. To me,
Speaker 1: that idea is is interesting. No, I think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's really true, and I think that's sort of
Speaker 1: the magic trick of the show is. And I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know the specifics of why it's so huge now.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's mind blowing to me. A four year
Speaker 1: old came up to me at the airport and was like,
Speaker 1: it's my favorite show and I was like, do you
Speaker 1: get any of it? And they're like, yeah, like it
Speaker 1: totally universal, like you said. But I also think that
Speaker 1: the stakes were set up so wonderfully because that's real life, right.
Speaker 1: I think when you're in love with someone, especially someone
Speaker 1: at work. You very much look forward to those interactions
Speaker 1: at work, but that means that when you go home,
Speaker 1: in your home life with your friends or whatever else
Speaker 1: you're doing, you will not see that person. So you
Speaker 1: are sort of, I don't know, tantalized by the idea
Speaker 1: that like, when I get that moment, I'll savor it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's real life, and that's what did
Speaker 1: in the show. I particularly, I'm thinking right now about
Speaker 1: the relationship with Roy, you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like lighting a fuse that might blow six
Speaker 1: weeks from now, but it was a very specific fuse, right,
Speaker 1: So the first time you saw me and David together,
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, okay, so you just told me
Speaker 1: that this is a potentially explosive thing, and then we
Speaker 1: didn't go into it. You'd reference him a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and it was very specific references, and she said that
Speaker 1: he brought me to the game and left me at
Speaker 1: the arena, like things like that, where you're just slowly
Speaker 1: leading the breadcrumbs back to the trigger, and then by
Speaker 1: the time he comes in and pushes me, you're so
Speaker 1: invested in that. Not in a television way I think
Speaker 1: in like a like these people are my friends, Oh right,
Speaker 1: my friend as much as I love them together, is
Speaker 1: trying to go after a girl who's taken. That's real
Speaker 1: life steaks rather than TV steaks. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what made it like the first time that we accidentally
Speaker 1: kissed at Dundees and like that's real life, whereas a
Speaker 1: regular television show would have a big, huge kiss sing
Speaker 1: like they finally got together and it was I remember
Speaker 1: reading that script and being like, man, that is so
Speaker 1: smart that have the audience be like did they just kiss?
Speaker 1: And it's and not give them what they thought they want.
Speaker 1: It was so because that's how I felt. I felt like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I thought we're gonna do some huge
Speaker 1: kissing and instead she just did it at Dundees and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god. And of course I would
Speaker 1: have stewed on that for months and been like was
Speaker 1: that did that count? Was she just drunk? Rather than
Speaker 1: if it was a big kiss scene where I took
Speaker 1: her out back and like, you know, made some huge overture,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh good, I'm being entertained by this moment.
Speaker 1: But I don't feel anything. I'm not connected I don't
Speaker 1: know if any of that made sense. No, that's so smart,
Speaker 1: I think. I um, I think people see themselves in
Speaker 1: the show, and it's a combination I would imagine of
Speaker 1: every character, you know. I don't think you look at
Speaker 1: one character and you go like, oh, I'm Michael. I
Speaker 1: hope you're not Michael. But it's more like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I have a co worker that loves cats, and I
Speaker 1: have a coworker that drives me insane. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's it, And certainly people have bosses that are crazy, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's what you were talking about, I think is so true.
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Greg where traditional sitcoms there's
Speaker 1: a rhythm, there's a rhythm to the joke. It's it's
Speaker 1: totally on the beat. And I think that in the
Speaker 1: relationship between Jim and Pam, everything happened off of the beat,
Speaker 1: not at the time you expected, right from moments way early,
Speaker 1: like right like in terms of like the progression. But
Speaker 1: then also what Greg talked about a little bit was
Speaker 1: once it got to a certain point that he was like, well,
Speaker 1: we need to get them together, Like I'm not going
Speaker 1: to create artificial impediments that make everybody go like, come
Speaker 1: on right, because I think he had brought this audience
Speaker 1: in to a very seemingly realistic relationship. So if you
Speaker 1: started doing weird things that felt fake, then people wouldn't
Speaker 1: relate to it anymore. I'm saying, like, I love I
Speaker 1: can admit on this podcast. I was never like a
Speaker 1: casting No. I wasn't really great with dating, and I
Speaker 1: feel and I think that's what's so great about the
Speaker 1: show is how do you go about that? Like how
Speaker 1: do you start a relationship with someone who's already with someone?
Speaker 1: It's a great place to start, and then just you know, slowly,
Speaker 1: you know. I remember also how bold it was that
Speaker 1: when you thought you would do something, you know, like
Speaker 1: proposed to her, he would write an entire episode where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, and at the end, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be the proposal because again in TV, you know
Speaker 1: that like the big scenes are coming, and he wouldn't
Speaker 1: do it. And then when I did propose, I love
Speaker 1: that talking head where I was like, I've been planning
Speaker 1: on this forever, like I love that, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I've said to people that nothing shut down production like
Speaker 1: an important gem and pan moment, like when there were
Speaker 1: moments between the two down. No, I mean like shut
Speaker 1: it down right right, like like like you're blushing right now.
Speaker 1: But it's I mean like Casino night and not and
Speaker 1: not just one, two different moments in Casino Night because
Speaker 1: the relationship was so important to the two of you
Speaker 1: and getting it right totally. I remember those two moments
Speaker 1: very well. I remember the parking lot Yeah, it's funny
Speaker 1: now that you say that, Yeah, which must have been
Speaker 1: frustrating for you, Like, oh, you'd be like, oh, please
Speaker 1: just get me out of here before they filmed this,
Speaker 1: or it's going to be seven hours. Well we were
Speaker 1: in there that seven hours. But again I had never
Speaker 1: experienced anything else, so that was weird for me. Was
Speaker 1: I remember like there was an energy around those moments.
Speaker 1: I remember. I remember so many different things, but I
Speaker 1: remember that parking lot scene. I remember not knowing where
Speaker 1: Matt was and Ken wouldn't tell me, and he was like,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it, just do the scene or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, and I thought that was cool. And then
Speaker 1: certainly I remember the like the big moment, the big
Speaker 1: kiss that was shut down, like that was nobody was
Speaker 1: on set, nobody was around the craft service table, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was happening. So I walked on,
Speaker 1: you know, ready to joke with folks, and they were
Speaker 1: like not wanting to make eye contact with me, and
Speaker 1: I was like, what happened? I feel like I said
Speaker 1: something to you, like I was going on. I know.
Speaker 1: I kind of remember that too. And then it made
Speaker 1: me more nervous because then they were like, all right, now,
Speaker 1: maybe you should go out the door and whenever you're ready,
Speaker 1: come in. And I was like, what's happening. There is
Speaker 1: no I'm gonna call action, and they're like, no, man,
Speaker 1: well do you remember that night? I remember, I remember
Speaker 1: because you were so frustrated you were still there. No,
Speaker 1: I just I remember it being so big. I think
Speaker 1: the thing that I am most proud of artistically he
Speaker 1: is not blowing your top in that moment in the
Speaker 1: shot in the show was every single shot where the
Speaker 1: camera was positioned, just the discussion about are the cameras
Speaker 1: in the room, Are the characters aware the cameras in
Speaker 1: the room, How does that change behavior based on the
Speaker 1: fact that the cameras are in the room or if
Speaker 1: they think that they're alone. And I think that at
Speaker 1: that moment, specifically, at the end of Casino Night. You
Speaker 1: see the slats in the blinds and them shooting and
Speaker 1: catching you guys that they're such an intimacy, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like Randall and Matt were to my favorite people
Speaker 1: on Earth and I couldn't see them, and like, I
Speaker 1: don't even think I got to see the set before
Speaker 1: I went up, you know what I mean? Like it
Speaker 1: was also weird, and I'm sure for a better actor
Speaker 1: you'd think like, oh, that's what you need, right, And
Speaker 1: so I was like I am a terrible actor because
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm nervous, and maybe that was the intention,
Speaker 1: but I was like, I don't even know. Remember, Randall
Speaker 1: wasn't anywhere, and usually I was like what are we doing?
Speaker 1: Like what what? What? What? How? Where do you want
Speaker 1: me to be? Whenever? And it was really weird. I
Speaker 1: was so freaked out. And I remember I was on
Speaker 1: set for a while before Jenna got onto because Jenna
Speaker 1: was taking her moment, which is fine, but again I
Speaker 1: was so not knowing of that world that I didn't
Speaker 1: know that I could take thirty minutes in my trailer
Speaker 1: to prepare. Mentally, I was like, mentally, what's happened? And
Speaker 1: then I got so much more scared, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, then you start to think, like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I didn't do my homework and she's doing her homework. Right.
Speaker 1: Were you on board with the trajectory of Jim and
Speaker 1: Pam's relationship, like just in terms of the timing, did
Speaker 1: you have concerns about it happening to soon? No, it
Speaker 1: sounds like a hallmark version of Greg, but I truly
Speaker 1: and Greg I trusted. I could tell that he had
Speaker 1: to beat on it. He was always so nice to
Speaker 1: involve Jenna, and I remember that he would tell you
Speaker 1: kind of when things were going to happen, and he
Speaker 1: would remind you in scenes, you know, don't worry. This
Speaker 1: isn't the moment that's going to lead to this, that
Speaker 1: will happen later, like he he had it all tracked out. Also,
Speaker 1: we were what in season five or six by the
Speaker 1: time that I was in that motel with that other
Speaker 1: girl and stuff like that, And that's the only time
Speaker 1: I remember putting whatever, put my foot down, not really,
Speaker 1: but I remember I got that was the only time
Speaker 1: I was very much against because he was saying, you're
Speaker 1: going to actually make out with her in this scene,
Speaker 1: and that was the episode I directed. Yes, that's right,
Speaker 1: that's the bed Bucks And I don't remember. It might
Speaker 1: have been an earlier version about you guys making out,
Speaker 1: but I remember that was the only time we had
Speaker 1: like a it was like a bad, negative moment. But
Speaker 1: I remember being in a room and it was like
Speaker 1: I remember finding myself kind of saying things that I
Speaker 1: never thought i'd say before, like I'm not going to
Speaker 1: shoot it. I remember Paul Lieberstein was in the room.
Speaker 1: He was like, no, you you will do it in
Speaker 1: an aggressive way, but it was like he saw the
Speaker 1: benefit of doing it. And I remember saying to Greg,
Speaker 1: there's a threshold with which you can push our audience.
Speaker 1: They are so dedicated, we have shown such great respect
Speaker 1: to them. There's a level of messing with them that
Speaker 1: you've done, like in a great way. I mean like
Speaker 1: you've messed with them by the whole kiss happening too early.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a moment where if you push
Speaker 1: them too far, they'll never come back. And I think
Speaker 1: that if you show Jim to be cheating, they'll never
Speaker 1: come back. Yeah, And I what did you think? That's right?
Speaker 1: You directed? What what was your field? Well? My recollection, Well,
Speaker 1: It was never that you were going to make out,
Speaker 1: but it was about there was what was the line?
Speaker 1: How far can we go? I was supposed to kiss
Speaker 1: her in that bathroom. I remember that's what they were pitching,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know that that's going
Speaker 1: to go well for us. But even just you being
Speaker 1: in a room him with her, you know, how would
Speaker 1: you behave even if you didn't think the cameras were there,
Speaker 1: because the cameras were shooting from outside and they weren't
Speaker 1: in the room except when Dwight came in. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the whole point is the passion for which you fought
Speaker 1: and Jenna fought and Greg like that. Everybody was collaboratively.
Speaker 1: Oh that's why it wasn't a negative fight. It was
Speaker 1: a big conversation because again it was so important to everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but also I had trusted Greg up to that point,
Speaker 1: and it was really hard for me to say, I
Speaker 1: think we're actually making the wrong decision, right, so Steve, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with us. When you found out that
Speaker 1: Steve was leaving, Oh yeah, what did you think was
Speaker 1: the greater loss, Michael or Steve? Jesus, It's like a
Speaker 1: existential crack right there in the Yeah, my brain literally
Speaker 1: just melted. Oh my god. I mean, it's weird, right.
Speaker 1: I think there might be one of those esoteric, kind
Speaker 1: of actory bogus things that happened, which is we kind
Speaker 1: of started blending ourselves and our characters because we spent
Speaker 1: so much time together, and Steve and I had a
Speaker 1: really wonderful relationship We started because we were both from
Speaker 1: Boston and we really had a great friendship, and even
Speaker 1: though we didn't hang out all that much, I felt
Speaker 1: very deeply connected to him, and he was always so nice.
Speaker 1: So I think that I think I have to be
Speaker 1: honest and say it was losing Steve because as much
Speaker 1: as he was so good on the show, his presence
Speaker 1: on the set was fantastic and mean he was. He
Speaker 1: was as professional as it gets. He was your clean
Speaker 1: up hitter, just crushed everything that he was thrown. And
Speaker 1: so I think I'm saying I think what I'm getting
Speaker 1: at is, in that moment, it felt like the end
Speaker 1: of an era. It felt like the the end of
Speaker 1: something more than even losing Steve or losing Michael. It
Speaker 1: felt like the end of our show in a way,
Speaker 1: or that evolution of our show. It's like when you
Speaker 1: graduate college, your life isn't over, but that version of
Speaker 1: your life will never come back. You'll never have your
Speaker 1: college years again or your high school years again. Um,
Speaker 1: that's what it felt like. I felt like we were
Speaker 1: graduating college that day. I'm trying to figure it out
Speaker 1: in real time. Why I cried so hard when we
Speaker 1: did that scene. I also remember him crying, and I
Speaker 1: was not expecting that. I thought that he was so
Speaker 1: good at comedy that he was able to be like,
Speaker 1: it's just a scene, then will cry after or not
Speaker 1: or whatever. And the energy in that room was so
Speaker 1: thick and palpable that when they called action or go ahead,
Speaker 1: I remember Steve tiered up right away, and that was
Speaker 1: so unlike him. Not that he was an emotionless but
Speaker 1: it was like it was so unlike him to let
Speaker 1: real life bleed into the moment, right. I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I actually remember. The actual number was seventeen takes of
Speaker 1: not even speaking, just just dribbling crying. For me, it's
Speaker 1: I mean, you talked about it, you were waiting tables.
Speaker 1: I was doing theater for you know, some class, sometimes
Speaker 1: seventeen people you know or whatever, Like everybody we all
Speaker 1: grew up together, and there was like Greg as like
Speaker 1: our on set dad, but like Steve as like the
Speaker 1: greatest brother you could have. Yeah. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: the steady brother, you know, whether it's like John Steinbecker,
Speaker 1: Arthur Miller, like there was always like a steady brother
Speaker 1: and we were all the crazy people and he was
Speaker 1: always really steady. Yeah no, But I mean I was
Speaker 1: twenty three years old when we started shooting season one,
Speaker 1: and I look back and I'm like, I basically graduated college,
Speaker 1: had two and a half years. Like I was shot
Speaker 1: out of a literal canon, because my my life wasn't
Speaker 1: real life. I was living in a fantasy camp because
Speaker 1: every day I was going to work on something I
Speaker 1: loved and something that was edgy and fun, and I
Speaker 1: would have watched in anyway. But like you said, we
Speaker 1: were also intermingling in a way that was such perfection.
Speaker 1: I've never been on a job since where every single
Speaker 1: human being, from crew member to you know, actor was
Speaker 1: so in tune and such a family. I always felt
Speaker 1: bad for the guests actors. Did you feel that? And
Speaker 1: you had to pop in for one episode? Oh? And
Speaker 1: I thought that must be awful, because here I am
Speaker 1: being like, right, who you picking up in the second
Speaker 1: round of fantasy and like They're like, no, this is
Speaker 1: a big show, and I'm like, it's not. It's fine.
Speaker 1: I mean of your m and m's are like just
Speaker 1: goofing off and then like throwing things at each other
Speaker 1: in the middle of scenes, and people were probably like, dude,
Speaker 1: this is my big break. We were trying to throw
Speaker 1: stuff at each other when the camera, when the camera
Speaker 1: wasn't on us. We were throwing a football in the
Speaker 1: middle and I remember there were a couple of people
Speaker 1: who were like, did not like the football throw? Yeah,
Speaker 1: stop you jackasses, And I was like, what's the big deal?
Speaker 1: And yeah, like Amy Adams, I thought did the best
Speaker 1: job of it. She came in and somehow felt like
Speaker 1: she was always on the show. Remember she wasn't the
Speaker 1: original purse girl did kill someone else. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden Amy showed up and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's been a recast and she was not nervous, not scared,
Speaker 1: came in and was like yeah, I'm I'm not taking
Speaker 1: this too seriously either. I'm just super good at my
Speaker 1: job and then crushed. It was one of the best
Speaker 1: storylines we've ever had. I love that storyline because I
Speaker 1: loved how she ended her character where she was understanding
Speaker 1: of how much I loved Pam and you're like that
Speaker 1: was also Rob Wriggle, Right, that was Riggles Booze, Cris
Speaker 1: Riggle god, one of the funniest human beings I've ever
Speaker 1: met in my life. Do you remember anything about that?
Speaker 1: Speaking of boost Cruise, the twenty seven seconds of silence,
Speaker 1: that was a big deal for the fans. I remember
Speaker 1: was there a discussion when we were shooting. I remember
Speaker 1: I felt it was a big deal when someone gave
Speaker 1: me the number of twenty seven seconds, because if someone
Speaker 1: counted it surely wasn't us, and so it had aired
Speaker 1: and someone timed it, which meant that it was a
Speaker 1: big enough deal to time it rather than remember how
Speaker 1: silent they were. I remember that. I also remember, do
Speaker 1: you remember we had shot to like the wee hours
Speaker 1: and the sun was cracking and we drove back on
Speaker 1: a boat and it it conked out. It conked out, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And we were in pitch black water, like terrifying, scary,
Speaker 1: shark infested, shark infested water, and we were just kind
Speaker 1: of crapped out on a tiny boat and we were
Speaker 1: all exhausted and the other boat got there just in time.
Speaker 1: They had left and we were like, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be a while. Remember that was terrifying. Yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: Phillis was on our boat. It was you Phillis. It
Speaker 1: wasn't coopas he got off on the good one. Was
Speaker 1: it Angela? I think Angela was there anyway? Was that
Speaker 1: season two? Well? And that was the episode. As we're filming,
Speaker 1: you know, seven pm to seven am. I wake up
Speaker 1: from like sleeping all during the day and have like
Speaker 1: seventy four messages from my agents saying the office wants
Speaker 1: to make you a serious regular. Where are you? I
Speaker 1: remember that. I remember being in the parking lot before
Speaker 1: we went to the boat, and you were very nice
Speaker 1: to say, I want to talk to you about this
Speaker 1: and get your take on it. And we talked a
Speaker 1: lot about it. You took none of my advice, No,
Speaker 1: none of them. Um, did you think the show could
Speaker 1: go forward? When Steve laughed, I knew the show could
Speaker 1: go forward. I didn't know what the plan was. I
Speaker 1: couldn't see through the trees. Um. But again that's where
Speaker 1: I really trusted Greg. I remember when they came to
Speaker 1: us for season nine. I had a very honest conversation
Speaker 1: with Greg. He called me about season nine and said,
Speaker 1: what do you think? And I said, you have to
Speaker 1: end the show. I was like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: negotiate because we none of us had contracts. Since I
Speaker 1: was like, this isn't about a negotiation. You have to
Speaker 1: end the show before they end it for us, because
Speaker 1: I was like, it's coming to an end regardless. You
Speaker 1: don't want to be the one that like. And he
Speaker 1: by the way, it wasn't. I wasn't telling him anything.
Speaker 1: You didn't know. I just felt with the landscape of
Speaker 1: what other shows were on and whatever that like. And
Speaker 1: again keep in mind we were not even as popular
Speaker 1: then as we are now. It's like I remember that
Speaker 1: feeling of like we don't want to be taken out
Speaker 1: back right, I think I'll go up behind the shed.
Speaker 1: I don't want too for sure. That is a lesson
Speaker 1: you everyone should abide by. Um what did you think
Speaker 1: did you want to did you think we should have
Speaker 1: kept going? I remember being conflicted, but ultimately I felt
Speaker 1: like that was the right decision, and I mean conflicted
Speaker 1: just that you did well, that it that it could
Speaker 1: have well I think what was inevitable was and I
Speaker 1: just call it the e er syndrome, Like, I think
Speaker 1: the writing was there that people were going to begin
Speaker 1: to leave, and so it's like, oh, okay, are we
Speaker 1: going to e er this? And are we going twenty?
Speaker 1: To me, there was sort of like are we going
Speaker 1: to stop at nine or we going twenty? It totally
Speaker 1: could have gone twenty because everybody would have slowly cycled
Speaker 1: out and we just kept the reality of it. My
Speaker 1: question is would people have wanting to see that, not
Speaker 1: not that people are leaving, but that they would be
Speaker 1: like I am now aware of the fact is the
Speaker 1: TV show and we ended it before you Technically you
Speaker 1: gave them that respect of saying, you guys have been
Speaker 1: so good to us. We don't want to be taken
Speaker 1: out back behind the shine the wood shed. No. I think.
Speaker 1: So here's what I know that I believe that that story,
Speaker 1: like the idea that this documentary is actually going to
Speaker 1: air and these characters are going to watch it, that
Speaker 1: had to happen right then or that never happens. I
Speaker 1: think because you can't do that after twenty years, when
Speaker 1: you're on your and your third cast. I think that's
Speaker 1: that's really true. Um, finale comes. I mean you mentioned
Speaker 1: that you you felt like we needed to end, and
Speaker 1: you were clear with Greg season nine. Once the finale
Speaker 1: finally comes, are you prepared for it? No? No, But
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I might have an issue that
Speaker 1: I need to look into, which is like I I
Speaker 1: think I tried to disengage from things and then they
Speaker 1: kind of catch up to me later. So while we
Speaker 1: were shooting, I was very disengaged to the fact that
Speaker 1: that also meant that it was ending, that we had
Speaker 1: called our shot, which I loved in theory, but I
Speaker 1: didn't really let my brain be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: only two weeks left, only two episodes left, only two
Speaker 1: scenes left, only you know whatever. And I think a
Speaker 1: big thing that helped was when we went to Scranton.
Speaker 1: I think that getting together and having some version of
Speaker 1: a life experience that felt like we were memorializing it
Speaker 1: helped because I don't know if I would have been
Speaker 1: good having the finale just come out. What do you do?
Speaker 1: Do you do? I like call you and be like, so,
Speaker 1: what what do you think about last night's episode? You
Speaker 1: know what? I mean? Like there, I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do, so I think that really helped. When we
Speaker 1: went to Scranton, that felt really Um, that was a
Speaker 1: really special experience for me. Right, I want to show
Speaker 1: you something? Is it me behind the bar? I don't
Speaker 1: why Why would you ruin something when I'm god, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to like, I know you took a picture of
Speaker 1: me behind the bar because I got paranoid about it. Um,
Speaker 1: my favorite picture of me and you and Jenna behind
Speaker 1: the bar. Behind the bar in Scratton. That was so
Speaker 1: much fun and nothing that I would have thought I
Speaker 1: would be doing. But I remember you had told me
Speaker 1: you had done this before, and then you told me
Speaker 1: how awesome it wasn't how amazing all the people were
Speaker 1: Unlike anything else I've been a part of. The fans
Speaker 1: of the office had this incredible warmth. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I ever would have done that if the love
Speaker 1: for the show didn't always feel so warm. It never
Speaker 1: felt fanatical. Everybody in that bar felt like they respected
Speaker 1: the fact that they got to have this moment where
Speaker 1: we were all celebrating the show together, cast and fans alike,
Speaker 1: we're all together, felt so organic, rather than like a
Speaker 1: PR stunt. Were like and if you come down at seven,
Speaker 1: like I loved. I remember the decision to get behind
Speaker 1: the bar. There was only like fifty sixty people, and
Speaker 1: then by the end they were like five hundred. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm not remembering. I remember even Steve stuck around for
Speaker 1: the end and he kept saying, like, dude, look at this.
Speaker 1: Like imagine being at home right now and being told like, dude,
Speaker 1: you should probably come because Denzel Washington is bartending. Like
Speaker 1: I would if I was a kid in high school,
Speaker 1: I would be like, what you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And the fact that they were like, dude, the cats
Speaker 1: from the office is bartending right now. And Steve got
Speaker 1: back there, didn't He sure did. Yeah, I remember that
Speaker 1: being just so special. I remember they're like they're going
Speaker 1: to be in a parade and we're gonna have the
Speaker 1: top down. I was like, top down, Like what's happening?
Speaker 1: And then Jenn and I got into a car with
Speaker 1: the top down, like a straight like a convertible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and drove up to the starting area and we saw
Speaker 1: some people, like a lot of excited people, and then
Speaker 1: we made that bend. We took a left down some
Speaker 1: main street and it was like thousands of thousands of people.
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be the town of
Speaker 1: Scranton came out and thought it was cool that you
Speaker 1: shot in their town. It was people who had driven
Speaker 1: or flown like people traveled to be at that moment,
Speaker 1: and that I think was so moving to me. I
Speaker 1: was like, I knew our show was successful, but again,
Speaker 1: I always was moved by the success of the interpersonal
Speaker 1: connection that people had. That it wasn't fandom for the
Speaker 1: successful show. It was the feeling of connectivity that we
Speaker 1: were all part of this show. And so I guess
Speaker 1: that was even that late in the game, it was
Speaker 1: still not clear to me how big our show was
Speaker 1: in that level. Yeah, yeah, I mean to me, what
Speaker 1: did you what did you take from the from the set?
Speaker 1: What did you take on the last day? Um, I
Speaker 1: got a story. I bet jarv Eminem's smart. There you
Speaker 1: go jarb Eminem's and the name plate jarv Eminem's took home.
Speaker 1: Put it on my desk. Six months pass, a year passes,
Speaker 1: I look and I realized that the Eminem's were going down.
Speaker 1: I'm like, mm hmm, that's odd. I'm definitely not eating them.
Speaker 1: I know how old they are. Nobody in my house.
Speaker 1: Only solution I came up with was that my house
Speaker 1: cleaner every week was coming in walking into my office,
Speaker 1: cleaning my desk and grabbing a handful of looks, it
Speaker 1: looks like something that she could do. So I realized
Speaker 1: I potentially was poisoning her. Yeah, so I took them, panicked,
Speaker 1: I threw them away. So I have the you are
Speaker 1: still there are no Eminem's. You should have put the
Speaker 1: You should have put that on a shelf or something,
Speaker 1: because you'd want the Eminem's from the set right. Also,
Speaker 1: it's a great science experiment. Eminem's lasting for a hundred
Speaker 1: years is probably something we should look into. We probably should.
Speaker 1: But no, I was like, I'm I'm poisoning her. I
Speaker 1: have to throw them away because what the The only
Speaker 1: solution is to say to her, I know you're stealing
Speaker 1: Eminem's from yea, by the way, you're poisoning yourself. Way,
Speaker 1: what if it wasn't her and you're just a horrible
Speaker 1: person that accused her. What if she's like, actually broke
Speaker 1: into my house. Maybe I'm just saying it seems like
Speaker 1: you're leading the witness there and I don't like it.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, what if you asked her and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm allergic to chocolate, and then you're like com com
Speaker 1: and then the lawn order starts for the Eminem's thanks
Speaker 1: for asking me what I took? Um, what did you
Speaker 1: take from the set? Well, it's funny. I'm only think
Speaker 1: about it now. I think it's the only time I
Speaker 1: ever lied to Greg. So well, you remember the last moment, right,
Speaker 1: That was vicious. That was vicious. That was hard. Nobody
Speaker 1: saw it? Oh boy, god, what was hard? Um? That Greg,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to us, knew what the last shot of the
Speaker 1: day would be the last shot ever of the show,
Speaker 1: but we didn't know. We're all goofing off and we
Speaker 1: were leaving the office, which was very poetic, and of
Speaker 1: course he's smart enough to have planned that, and we
Speaker 1: were like laughing and having a great time, and then
Speaker 1: we came back in for a reset and he was
Speaker 1: standing there weird in the middle of the room and
Speaker 1: he was like, that was the last take of the office.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what I mean, like a bus
Speaker 1: hit me. It was so intense, wasn't it, man? And
Speaker 1: I was like amazing and brilliant, but also, how dare
Speaker 1: you I think I bent over? Like I was gonna puke.
Speaker 1: I cried very hard. Did you cry? You were? You
Speaker 1: were like a stoic cryer, like a like a Gary
Speaker 1: Cooper kind of cry, whereas I was I cry like
Speaker 1: I laugh. I just it's it sounds like just way
Speaker 1: too much, just way too much. But anyway, so I
Speaker 1: remember that moment, and then everybody was going back to
Speaker 1: their trailers and stuff to change to go to the
Speaker 1: warehouse to do like a big presentation of a gift
Speaker 1: or something, right, and as Jim, I didn't have like
Speaker 1: a ton of stuff on your desk, yeah, and like
Speaker 1: I took the nameplate for sure, but I was like,
Speaker 1: I want something that is undeniably from our set. And
Speaker 1: so I remember, like I think I lied to you,
Speaker 1: Like you were like, so what time, because remember we
Speaker 1: went right to the party and I super shadily ran
Speaker 1: back in the five minutes that everybody was gone and
Speaker 1: stole the dunder Mifflin sign that we always used to
Speaker 1: walk by and do the talking heads and get this.
Speaker 1: So then I was like, I'm a little ashamed that
Speaker 1: I didn't tell anybody, but I really wanted it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I'll look back on this
Speaker 1: and it'll be like, you know, a bad high school
Speaker 1: kid decision. So I get to the party and I
Speaker 1: was like, Greg, what did you take? And he goes,
Speaker 1: I'm really bummed someone took the dunder Mifflin sign. That's
Speaker 1: what I wanted. And he goes, do you know who
Speaker 1: took it? And I went no, and I legit to
Speaker 1: his face, was like no, that is terrible who took it.
Speaker 1: I was like, if you want it, that should be
Speaker 1: yours and he was like right, And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: good news days. You got tons of other stuff. And
Speaker 1: remember he was talking about like we were going to
Speaker 1: donate the set to the Smithsony or something. He had
Speaker 1: that plan, so I was like, he has plenty. But
Speaker 1: then the longer I thought about it, I was like,
Speaker 1: you lied to your TV dad. Do you have it
Speaker 1: on your wall now? Oh? Yeah, it's in my office. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I got it framed like it looks great. Oh look
Speaker 1: good for you. The way that night I hit a
Speaker 1: speed bump and the eye and under Mifflin flew off
Speaker 1: and I almost oh, I almost lost my mind. And
Speaker 1: then Phil Shay emailed him like a year and a
Speaker 1: half later, and I was like, bro, that's I won't
Speaker 1: go back, and I don't want to, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like I don't want to be the one to
Speaker 1: put it up because it's like you being the one
Speaker 1: to add paint to a famous paintings. He was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you an eye, like the same type
Speaker 1: of foam and everything. I'll just send it to you.
Speaker 1: And I was like, great, and he sent it to me.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. And then later he sent me the Adventures
Speaker 1: of Jimmy Halpert comic my actual bag. I thought you
Speaker 1: were going to say, the bag is what you took
Speaker 1: when I think of you. Yeah, I'm talking like five
Speaker 1: years later. I asked for it and he sent it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how he knew where that was, but
Speaker 1: it was the comic. It was my dundee, and then
Speaker 1: my bag, and then maybe my watch. I think I
Speaker 1: had a watch that he put in there. Anyway, That's
Speaker 1: all I have now. That was the greatest decision props wise,
Speaker 1: that I ever made on that show, was not asking
Speaker 1: for a watch early on. So I'm not having to
Speaker 1: do with that problem beginning and the end. For you,
Speaker 1: it's like learning not to eat on camera. That's that's again.
Speaker 1: You're trained. You're a trained actor. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: I just had to learn it the hard way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you obviously wildly successful. When people approach you, Now what
Speaker 1: percentage of it is about the office? Oh, large majority. Again,
Speaker 1: I think it's the difference between fans who feel like
Speaker 1: they're a part of something and fans who have watched something.
Speaker 1: I think there's very few things that I watched when
Speaker 1: I was a kid that I felt so connected to.
Speaker 1: It was more like, oh, I like the movie e T.
Speaker 1: But there were very few things that I felt like
Speaker 1: if I ever saw that person, we shared a life
Speaker 1: moment together. Had I ever met Chris Farley, I would
Speaker 1: have said that because I watched Tommy Boy so many
Speaker 1: times that he didn't know he was my best friend,
Speaker 1: but he was my best friend. So I think that
Speaker 1: thing is like I shared so much in my life
Speaker 1: with that show. That's why I think that people, you know,
Speaker 1: people have seen other things, which is great. Certainly recently,
Speaker 1: like I think Quiet Place, Jack Ryan people are coming
Speaker 1: up a lot more. But I I think our fans
Speaker 1: see me and instead of going up to an actor
Speaker 1: to get a picture or something, they're actually seeing a
Speaker 1: friend of theirs. Is my point. My long meandering point
Speaker 1: is no one looks at Jack Ryan. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, my buddy, Jack Ryan, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you're an actor. I didn't realize they do think that
Speaker 1: with Jim and I've had my favorite experiences with fans
Speaker 1: is when they think we've gone to school together or something.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite. Like I I had one where a
Speaker 1: woman said we know each other and I said do
Speaker 1: we and she goes, we went to school together and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't. I don't think we did,
Speaker 1: and she went, yes, we did. And it was like
Speaker 1: that thing of like why am I being awkward about it?
Speaker 1: And where did you go to school? And she said
Speaker 1: some school and I went, I did not go to
Speaker 1: that school and she went, yes, you did, and like
Speaker 1: I was like okay, and then I left and I
Speaker 1: could see that either else someone else has been like,
Speaker 1: you don't know that person. You just thought that it
Speaker 1: was at the airport bookshop, and then through the window
Speaker 1: you saw them being like in silence, being like, oh no,
Speaker 1: god it was. But I think that that's such a
Speaker 1: credit to the show that you don't just like the show,
Speaker 1: you actually think you know those people. Yes, because I
Speaker 1: I by the way, I'm not necessarily comparing you to
Speaker 1: Ted dancing in exactly the same way. No, But I
Speaker 1: just mean like Ted Danson was doing a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff and immediately after Cheers, but there was something about
Speaker 1: Cheers sam alone that everything else, not even that other
Speaker 1: things wouldn't have been as good or better, but Cheers
Speaker 1: was what I shared because there was a purity to
Speaker 1: that experience that you had watched the same with me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was. I grew up in Boston, like
Speaker 1: Cheers was a form of like television religion or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will take a comparison to Ted danceing anytime. Then
Speaker 1: I won't do that agoin God damn it. Here, put
Speaker 1: on these airphones. I want you to hear something. I'm
Speaker 1: playing something for everybody. Boy, we should have had these
Speaker 1: on the whole time. I would have. I would have
Speaker 1: changed my voice. Um, don't ever, ever, when I have
Speaker 1: earphones on and I have your tone right in my ear,
Speaker 1: don't talk low like that. My voice slips and Nope,
Speaker 1: I just would have slips around. I don't like that
Speaker 1: in my head. I don't like your voice slipping around
Speaker 1: in my ear. Um, we play clip six for me?
Speaker 1: Clip six? I thought it was weird when you picked
Speaker 1: us to make a documentary. But all in all, I
Speaker 1: think an ordinary paper company like dunder Mifflin was a
Speaker 1: great subject for a documentary. There's a lot of beauty
Speaker 1: and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point? So
Speaker 1: Gregg wrote that clearly for him, that was the point.
Speaker 1: What did you think the It was the point of
Speaker 1: what shooting the show? Sorry, my brain just exploded again. Um.
Speaker 1: I think that that is so beautiful that writing, and
Speaker 1: I would only suspect that it came from someone who
Speaker 1: created the show, because someone who creates the show and
Speaker 1: doesn't just act on the show would have to have
Speaker 1: in their head a beginning, middle, and end, and you're
Speaker 1: shooting for something, and I love that that's what he
Speaker 1: was shooting for. What are you most thankful for? Oh
Speaker 1: my god? Everything? I mean, are you asking me as
Speaker 1: a person? Well, I mean, without sounding hyperball, it's it
Speaker 1: is my everything. I mean, that show changed my entire
Speaker 1: life twenty three when it started, so I hadn't even
Speaker 1: really formed an identity of who I was, and so
Speaker 1: that show not only from a career perspective, where I've
Speaker 1: had more opportunity than I ever would have dreamt of
Speaker 1: having for one day, I have for an entire lifetime.
Speaker 1: Is all due to that show. I never would be
Speaker 1: doing any other thing that you've seen me do, writing, directing, acting,
Speaker 1: and something else if it wasn't for that show. But
Speaker 1: as a person, I think it sort of gave me
Speaker 1: this very quintessential building block that I got to stand
Speaker 1: on to build the rest of my life. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: you're about to say, that's all crack of ship? What what? What?
Speaker 1: What would you say? I think it's very similar. I
Speaker 1: think I was processing what you were saying that because
Speaker 1: of the people who were working on it, not just
Speaker 1: the actors, but the writers who are like all showrunners
Speaker 1: now from the early season, you know, who are extremely successful,
Speaker 1: fun good shows. It's but also our crew. Like you said,
Speaker 1: like you know again in a very probably lame, cliche,
Speaker 1: hallmark way, like I don't know that as a person
Speaker 1: I would be able to have the luxury forget you know,
Speaker 1: success or fine dance or anything. It's the luxury of
Speaker 1: being who I wanted to be. I didn't know who
Speaker 1: I wanted to be. And because of such a warm
Speaker 1: environment where if everyone had a color, people were splashing
Speaker 1: their experience and their colors all over me. I got
Speaker 1: exposed to everything I wanted to be and then got
Speaker 1: to choose to move forward with my life in a
Speaker 1: way that I not only didn't know existed, but that
Speaker 1: I could sustain. Like that you could, you could do
Speaker 1: fantastic fun stuff every day for ten years of your life.
Speaker 1: And genuinely, I've been asked. I'm sure you get asked
Speaker 1: all the time, what year were you guys? All over it?
Speaker 1: Like when were you guys? Like, we're over it? And
Speaker 1: I genuinely am trying not to look back with revisionist history.
Speaker 1: I don't remember one moment where I was like, such
Speaker 1: a job. Yeah, would you do a reunion? I'm asking
Speaker 1: the questions, what are you? What are you doing now?
Speaker 1: I just feel like we're you picked up pencil, You're
Speaker 1: like doodling. No, I just wanted I was thinking about
Speaker 1: writing some questions down for you, and then I started
Speaker 1: do doling my Um, what was your question? Would you
Speaker 1: want to do a reunion or a show like a
Speaker 1: reunion show? Yeah? I don't know that you want to
Speaker 1: be on a reboot, right? I think that I think
Speaker 1: with the right idea because clearly the show is bigger
Speaker 1: now than it was. Sure, and that's all great. That's
Speaker 1: again that's the that's the business side of it. I
Speaker 1: think that for me, it's really simply down to wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be fun? Like just throw an episode out there,
Speaker 1: almost like they did the Christmas specials for the British one.
Speaker 1: What I like about the idea is that it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be better or worse than any of the
Speaker 1: episodes we've ever done. It would actually be cool to
Speaker 1: just tell a story just like no stakes. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: thanks blood, You're welcome. Is it over? Yeah? I mean,
Speaker 1: do you have anything else you want to say? I mean,
Speaker 1: we feel like we covered a lot of topics, we
Speaker 1: covered a lot of ground. I don't know what I said. Um, John,
Speaker 1: I love you so much and I appreciate you coming
Speaker 1: and talking to me. This is great. But also it's
Speaker 1: just so good to see you. It's so good to
Speaker 1: see you. I feel like I just went to a
Speaker 1: therapy session. You did, you did great? Which you don't
Speaker 1: cut yourself out of this, you you You'll get my bill. Um.
Speaker 1: We still have headphones on, which allows me to do that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to slip around. I don't want your
Speaker 1: slipper I don't want to slipping around in my brain
Speaker 1: or ear. Um are we done? Can I please get
Speaker 1: him out of here? All right? Ali? Guys, dude, thank you,
Speaker 1: welcome dude, Thank you John. Why do you always have
Speaker 1: to ruin everything? Just the slippering? I'm just kidding. That
Speaker 1: was incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the show,
Speaker 1: and to all of my listeners, thank you for making
Speaker 1: us a part of your day. Well, we'll be back
Speaker 1: soon with another tantalizing conversation, big word and a very
Speaker 1: big announcement. What could it be? But until then, make
Speaker 1: sure to leave us a review and just you know,
Speaker 1: have an amazing week for me. We'll see them the Office.
Speaker 1: Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Speaker 1: Our producers for this episode are Liz Hayes, Emily Carr,
Speaker 1: and Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by Seth Olandski