1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of I Heart Radio's 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: House Stuff Worst. Today's episode is another that is a 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: long time coming for me. Yes, yes, because about a 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: year ago there was an event at UM, Atlanta's Center 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: for Puppetry Arts which UM was focused on women and puppetry, 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: and we were trying to go there and record it 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: and do a podcast on it, but based on availability 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: of producers and hosts, it did not happen, and I've 10 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: it's been the one that got away, similarly to a 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: lot of the interviews have been ad lately that we 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: finally made happen. And I've recently with all the things 13 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: like Drag con Right, which has a lot of puppets 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of puppetry panels, and Dark Crystal, the 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: Netflix show UM, which I love UH and in Atlanta 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: there's a Halloween tradition of this puppets show called The 17 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: Ghastly Dreadfulls, and UH was finally able to get some 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: women in puppetry. Maybe it happen. We've got some big 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: names in here in the puppetry world. As you told 20 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: me before they walked in, I was like, oh no, 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: am I just being nervous, But yeah, I kind of 22 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: forgot what because I have no idea in this whole 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: world of puppetry, and I kind of forgot one of 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: my favorite movies, which are we're going to mention in 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: the interview, which is literally which is like the nineteen fifties, 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties old classic with one of my favorite actresses, 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 1: Leslie Koran. I think that's how your saving name Carol. 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: She's French, French, American. I'm not really good at any 29 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: of those things, but she was a beautiful dancer, and 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: there's this whole and we talked about the synopsis of film, 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: but her interacting with all these puppets, um, and it's 32 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: kin was like, wow, yeah, there's a whole depth to 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: publishry that I didn't think about. Slide of Sesame Street, 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: right And it's it's interesting you say that because I 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: never watched Sesame Street. Um, so I had like a 36 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: reverse of what I think most people in in at 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: least the United States have where I never saw Sesame Street. No, no, 38 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: none of those. I did see Muppet Christmas Carol. Okay, okay, um, 39 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: that's what I think of right um For me, it 40 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: was definitely dark crystal. That was something that when I 41 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: was a kid, I was a weird kid, and I 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: loved the movie I guess Labyrinth as well as never 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: ending story those lines too. Yeah, and that's the thing. 44 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of us don't realize 45 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: that we were seeing puppets in a lot of different forms, 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: and that's also something we're going to touch on. But 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I guess we should get into the interview because we 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: keep spoiling everything. It was very exciting. I feel like 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: I'll learned lot. It was a lovely interview, and uh, 50 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: you'll hear from our guests. But some of them flew 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: in today right from Quebec. We have to go visit 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: them during that old festival. I am planning on it. 53 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: I am in, I am in. Yeah. It was a 54 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,839 Speaker 1: great conversation and actually we might follow up and have 55 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: another because there are a lot of women puppeteers came 56 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: out of the woodworks when I put out my fielders, 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, so, if any listeners are hearing 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: this and thinking, ah, that's me, you should write in. 59 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, we'll let our interviewees introduce themselves. Hello, 60 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: my name is Louise Lapoynte. I come from Montreal in Canada, 61 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: and I'm the director of Castillier, which is an organization 62 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: devoted to puppetry arts presenting propetry arts. So every year 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: we organized an international puppet Festival presenting performances for children 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 1: and for adults, and also we have a regular season. Cool. Hi, 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: I'm Kristin Hararty and I'm the producer at the Center 66 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: for pupe Try Arts here in Atlanta, Georgia. And well, 67 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: we don't have a festival, we present uh work for 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: families and for adults throughout the year. Uh So, and 69 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: also have a museum and education program as well. Yes, 70 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan, big fan, and I'm sure I 71 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: would love everything you've got going on as well. But 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: once I make it to get back um anytime. Uh 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: And we like to start with kind of a very 74 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: baseline definitions on the show. So if you wouldn't mind 75 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: what is puppetry because I think when a lot of 76 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: people think about it, at least here in the States, 77 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: there's one particular thing they're thinking of. Um, So if 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: you could kind of expand upon what is puppetry exactly 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, Uh Yeah, I think that's true 80 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: puppetry and its essence is an inanimate object manipulated Uh 81 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: in front of an audience. U is sort of my definition. 82 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: But really puppetry there are so many different styles, both 83 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: in techniques and also uh in world traditions as well. Uh, 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: there's it can really be so many things. It's very 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: visual form. It's uh, it's visual storytelling. Uh. Also what 86 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: do you think, Well, in French we call it we 87 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: are devoted to the arts of puppetry, including object theater, shadow, theater, marionette. 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: Because yeah, it's a an incredible array of different techniques 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 1: and puppetry art is a complete art form. It's more 90 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: like opera because it involves visual arts, theater, dance, movement, music, 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: so it's a really complete and intricate art form and 92 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: so poetics. So that for me, I agree with Christine's definition. 93 00:05:53,760 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: But it's like I say, it's the arts of puppetry absolutely. Um. 94 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: And if you wouldn't mind going into both of you 95 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: how did you get into this field? How did you 96 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: get to where you are? Myself? I studied in first 97 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: in visual arts and university, and then I wanted to 98 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: go on studying but not do a master degree in 99 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: visual arts. So I said, Okay, I'm going to do 100 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: another degree in theater and technical production and snography. And 101 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: it was in school that I met a great puppeteer, 102 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: and I was fascinated about the strength of the art form. 103 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: So I decided to devote myself to that afterwards. And 104 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: so I worked for more than twenty years in Quebec 105 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: at the Conservatoi Dramatic as a stage hand, props mistress, maskmaker, 106 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: and it allowed me to work with materials all the time. 107 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: But still I kept the practice of building puppets on 108 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: the side. And then I became a director of a 109 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: festival and I'm now I'm more presenting than building, but 110 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: I hope to come back to building soon. Uh. Yeah, 111 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: for me going back to at least talking about puppetry 112 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: being all the arts. Uh. When I was a student, 113 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: I was interested in music and film and theater, and 114 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: I was trying to find ways to combine them all 115 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: into what I wanted to be when I grew up. 116 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: And uh, I went abroad to study my junior year 117 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: in Prague and Bali, and both of those have incredible 118 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: puppetry traditions, and suddenly it sort of clicked for me, 119 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: and I realized that puppetry was such a vibrant art 120 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: farm and I wanted to know more about it. So 121 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: I came back and happened to my UH college professor, 122 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: happened to be an amazing person in the pupetry field, 123 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: Dan Herlin, who is in New York and doing really 124 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: great work, and so I studied with him after I 125 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: was back, and then went and toured for a year 126 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: as a touring puppeteer uh and in the Northwest, which 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: was using experience. UH. For anyone who has ever been 128 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: on a theatrical tour, it's uh, it really you know, 129 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: gets you in the trenches and and it's also just 130 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: a really great learning experience for how audiences respond because 131 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: you're in a different town every day in front of 132 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: a different audience. Really uh. And so doing that with 133 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: this puppetry company was really taught me about the art 134 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: forum and about performing in general. And then I moved 135 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: to Atlanta, and UH, Atlanta has this amazing center for Patriarchs, 136 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: and I started working as a teaching artist. I UH 137 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: worked as a docent, I worked as AH did shows 138 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: for XPT, which is our experimental puppetry theater program, started 139 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: performing in the Ghastly Dreadfuls, which is an adult Puppetri 140 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: scau there and just basically did every job I could 141 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: possibly do at the center. Uh. And then I was 142 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: the center was planning a international festival in two thousand 143 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: It was going to happen in two thousand nine, and 144 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: my producer was looking for someone to help with that, 145 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: and I said, I want to be a part of that. Uh, 146 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: and UH pushed my resume at her, and that was 147 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: that was ten years ago since I worked on that, 148 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: and uh, that was our producer and she recently retired 149 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: and now I've am the producer of the Center and 150 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: it's so it's been a long process. But UH really 151 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: loved working in puppetry and all of the possibilities that 152 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: are inherent within that reform. Yeah, and that's something I 153 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: personally really curious about because I've seen a lot of 154 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: I think people forget that there's puppetry and a lot 155 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: of big movies and you just don't think about it 156 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: in the same way and you don't appreciate it in 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: the same way. Perhaps, Um, but I'm always curious about 158 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: like because I'm an actor, but like the performance of 159 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: it and giving life to something in movement and invoice. Um, 160 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: what about it? Is there something specific that drew you 161 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: to publishry or is there something about it that you 162 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 1: love that you find very unique? Do it well? I 163 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: must admit puppetry for me is a passion. It's stronger 164 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: than me. I don't know why I'm consulting, but it's 165 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: an art form that keeps fascinating me because of its 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: endless power of metaphorism, of poetry, of strength that the 167 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: human soul not with the text. Necessarily you can have 168 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: text and puppetry, but not necessarily. And how a simple gesture, 169 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: but the good one can make you feel all sorts 170 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: of feelings and also make you understand things. For me, 171 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: it's an answer of puppetry arts. They can answer some 172 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: of the basic questions. And that's why I'm still interested 173 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: so much into it. It's a passion m hm and 174 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: and I think for me, it's also the tactile nature 175 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: of puppetry, like especially thinking of films and uh where 176 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: there was a movement for a while to go c 177 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: G and to go digital, and so many people are 178 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: now going back to puppetry to achieve those effects because 179 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: they're realizing there's just nothing quite like that actual physical 180 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: object being manipulated by an actual human being in real time. 181 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: I mean stop motion, I guess I just think of 182 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: it has slowed down but or sped up puppetry, I suppose, 183 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: but but but there's still there's just something about and 184 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: an object coming to life that's that's so part of 185 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: just a really basic human impulse. And also it's just 186 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: it the lights in a way that I think digital 187 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: doesn't always And I think that's also why I just 188 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: keep coming back to the puppet. And it's fascinating right 189 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: now because we see it in the schools. Younger children 190 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: are even older when they see a puppet show. Now, 191 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: they're so fascinated by behind the scene and they want 192 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: to see how one army is moving because they're so 193 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: used to virtual screens all the time, and to go 194 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: back to and see real matter move with their human being, 195 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: they find again the joy of you know, equally, so 196 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: many companies talk about that that after shows, meetings with 197 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: the audience, you know, it's this fascination again, oh wow 198 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: does this work? And so it's it's very nice and 199 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: you'll find, you know, not only visual artists and performers 200 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: and dancers, but also engineers really like puppetry because it's 201 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: all about like, how how do you make it work? 202 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: You know, how how do you achieve this effect? And 203 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: sometimes it's a very simple mechanism. Um, but sometimes I 204 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: can get really complicated and there's a real sort of 205 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: puzzle to figuring out how how do you create this, uh, 206 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: this this object to move in a certain way to 207 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: achieve the effect that you want to on stage or 208 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: or in a film or whatever it is. Yeah. When 209 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: I watched something like the Gasly Judtfuls, which I love 210 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: because it showcases all these different types of puppetry, I 211 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: am so fascinated. But how did how did they do that? 212 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I just want to know? Um. And something else I 213 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: really like is looking back at the history of puppetry, 214 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: which is something that the Center for Popetry Arts goes 215 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: into and around the world. Um. Is that something that 216 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: either of you or both of you can speak to 217 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: some of the history or especially women, um, because this 218 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: show is about women and feminism. Yeah. Yeah, I mean 219 00:13:54,640 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: puppetry has a long history is and so many different cultures. Uh. Actually, 220 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: one reason why I was so excited that that Louise 221 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: could join us. Is that Uh, we're both part of 222 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: an organization called UNEMA, which is the oldest organization, uh 223 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: in the oldest theater organization in the world. Um and 224 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: uh it's an association of puppeteers and uh so it's 225 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: uh there are unemaus centers and countries around the world. UM. 226 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: That's how I originally met Louise Is. They have congresses 227 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: every four years and there are an incredible amount of 228 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: women leaders within that organization. Um and and I think 229 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: in puppetries history in general. I know in the States 230 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: there's been many strong puppeteers who have been been women 231 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: who have sort of shaped at least American puppetry. And 232 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: there's u and internationally as well. And currently there are 233 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: there are many female puppeteers. And in phil on TV 234 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: there's the Hanson family there are three really dynamic women 235 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: are all the daughters of Jim Henson who are currently 236 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: heading puppetry foundations and uh and creating puppetry. And and 237 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: so the female presence in puppetry is strong. I would say, yeah, absolutely. Um. 238 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: I think in puppetryes is in almost every culture's every 239 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: culture and around the world, almost like masks. UM. And 240 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: nowadays there's a there are many more women studying puppetry. 241 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,479 Speaker 1: There's many men in the in the field and performing, 242 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: but in professional schools for example, there there are many 243 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: more women studying puppetry arts. I think it's not only 244 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: puppetry but also visual arts and like in for example, 245 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: in Montreal, we have now a master degree level in 246 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: puppetry arts for since two thousand seven, and it's a 247 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: two year master degree and for the last two promotions 248 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: it's only women studying and the puppeture. So I think 249 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's two bad because it gives uh why 250 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: is that happening like that? But still, I mean there's 251 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: a very big interest buy from for women in puppetry arts, 252 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: and they're doing exquisite shows like you had Ashes here, 253 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: which is a Norwegian puppeteer who's world famous now and 254 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: so now we see many excellent international companies led by women. Yeah. Um, 255 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: we have some more of our discussion around women in puppeteering, 256 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for word from 257 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Now back 258 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: to the interview. One thing that I find fascinating about 259 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: the history of puppetry, Um, is how it was able 260 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: to provide commentary on social things but when perhaps no 261 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: one else could, when it was sort of a dangerous thing. Um. 262 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: And before I, before we started recording this, I was 263 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: reading about like puppetry used for empowering women in in 264 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: South Africa, and erotic puppetry and turkey for women, like 265 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: something that they're able to comments on that maybe they 266 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to. And so I'm wondering, what do 267 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: you how do you think that puppetry can transcend in 268 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: that way? I also saw I think one of the 269 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: panels um at one of these festivals or conferences was 270 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: about using puppets for people who experienced sexual trauma or 271 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: something like using it to help in that way, just 272 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: other ways that puppetry is this powerful art form. Yeah, 273 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: I've seen it being used for child therapy, like it's 274 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: no form of there before a lot of children who 275 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: has gone through trauma, and it's not necessarily that they're 276 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: playing out trauma, but it's something to help you. I 277 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: can as speak up, what is it? What is it 278 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: about that? That is a good question because I've seen 279 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: that as well, that children are able to communicate with 280 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: things through the puppetry type of things. How does that 281 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: how does that even become a thing that's that's fascinating 282 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: too well, hy puppetry and therapy. It's a big association 283 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: also around an international UM Internet association. So yeah, it's 284 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: such a useful and strong tool to do therapy and 285 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: you need many experts use it to deal with different traumas, 286 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: for with children and for adults. And I think because 287 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: puppetry is so strong because you it's a mirror, so 288 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: you're not it's not you talking, or it's not someone 289 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: talking to you, it's the puppets. So it's much more 290 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: easier to get the distance. And I'm not a therapist, 291 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: but I know the power the puppet can have and 292 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: and I think that's why it's very strong, right, Yeah, 293 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: I agree. It's there's there's that sense of oh, it's 294 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: the it's the puppet talking um, and there's there's a 295 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: safety in that um. And and also in you know, 296 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: not only in therapy, but in uh politics. I know 297 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: that there's there's many instances and um where it's there's 298 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: the puppet tier has been able to to speak truth 299 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: to power in ways that possibly the human would not 300 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: have been able to or be allowed to. But because 301 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: it was a puppet in a puppet show, Uh, there 302 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: was there was that distance or that that sense of it. 303 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's the puppet, so it's okay. Um. 304 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: One of the impetus for this episode, I guess it 305 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: was two things. One, I fell in love with the 306 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: dark Wist all over again, but too. Like a year ago, 307 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: there was a panel on women in puppetry and I 308 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: totally I missed it and I've been thinking about it 309 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: ever since. Um. But one of the women who was 310 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: on the panel, when asked about like the differences in 311 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: female characters versus male characters when it comes to puppets 312 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: that she said something like, I would always rather play 313 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: a character that happens to be female. Um, but are 314 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: there things that you've noticed or you've experienced that are 315 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: different when it comes to creating female character in puppet form? 316 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: In my experience, one of the values of puppetry is 317 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: that you can be so many things that aren't what 318 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: you physically are. You can you can as as a performer, 319 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: and you can go you can stretch the boundaries of 320 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: what maybe an audience might perceive you to be on stage. 321 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: You can be five different characters that are completely different 322 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: in looks, size, personality, you know, whatever, uh that is. 323 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: I think you know, there's there's certainly lots of males 324 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: that perform female roles and females that perform male rules 325 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: and puppetry, and there's there's some value in that. I 326 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: think that sometimes there I mean in this can be 327 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: in you know, it's not just exclusive to puppetry, but 328 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: you know there you can delve into stereotypes that are 329 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: not that can be dangerous or not dangerous but just questionable. Um. So, 330 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: so I think that there's you know, you still have 331 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: to be very mindful of of representation. And because puppetry 332 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: is such a strong representation you you you can create 333 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: something that is your visual idea of what a character is. 334 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: And that way, it's like it does bring up questions 335 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: like why does the why does a witch always have 336 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: to have like you know, a certain look you know 337 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: you know and um and because you are you are 338 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: able to physically sculpt creates this this image of this 339 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: character which is a combination of characteristics and it is 340 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: it is a personality. You know, how how do you 341 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: create that rich personality within your visual design? Um that 342 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: is mindful of not drawing those very simple conclusions to oh, 343 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: this is this kind of character, so it's going to 344 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: look like this or um, So yeah, it's I think 345 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: that's always a challenge in puppetry. Um. I think I 346 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: got away from the question that So, yeah, I was 347 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: gonna ask because you were talking about that you are crafting, 348 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: you're creating, um and making these puppets. What does it 349 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: look like being behind the scenes and trying to create 350 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: new characters? Because, as you were talking about, you have 351 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: to keep up with the ever changing representation and as 352 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: we know right now there's huge controversy about all of 353 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: theferent types of representation. What does that look like today, 354 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: especially as a woman who would be creating and crafting 355 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: these characters. Well, I think property stay is a great 356 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: tool to yet fight against this gender characterization. And I'm 357 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: thinking maybe that's why there's so many women studying it, 358 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: because it's a excellent way to break molds and propose 359 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: something else. But creating different characters, I wouldn't have to 360 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: think about this one because when you create a character, you, 361 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: for yeah, you have to adapt to You're more sensitive 362 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: to what's going on now for sure. But I don't 363 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: know how it would show up in the actual object. Well, 364 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: how do you start creating something, because I'm guessing you 365 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: have to create like when you're going outside of the 366 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: regular characters. How do you come up with these ideas? So, 367 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: like again I'm thinking about the long lines of like 368 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: creations like cookie Monster or and I actually remember the 369 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: movie that I love Lilya. It's one of my favorite movies, 370 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: like was one of my favorite dancers way back way, 371 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: but I was just thinking. I was like, oh my god, 372 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: I forgot. I used to love this movie which was 373 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: centered around puppetry and her falling in love with these 374 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: characters and these some of these heriacters are very unusual 375 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: characters as we see. How do you come up with 376 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: these ideas? How do people well to create a character? 377 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: You start discussing with the director or if with yourself, 378 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: if you are the director, but you make a discussion 379 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: and what's the character about, what's the what's his emotion, 380 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: his her emotions with the what's his movement? How does 381 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: he how does it move? And then you depending on 382 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: your strength or what kind of technique you want to use, 383 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: it's very different feelings. If you use a long string 384 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: puppets marionettes, because the gestures are very much different than 385 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: the hand and the glove puppet, which is a direct 386 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: connection and very powerful. So you have to discuss that 387 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: beforehand to see what you want to say again, and 388 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: then you start to research and what's nice and nowadays 389 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: it's we can use the traditional techniques, but also with 390 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: the new media. A lot of puppeteers are working with projection, 391 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: live videos and it's bringing a breath of a new 392 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: breadth of a new wind into the traditional puppetry arts. 393 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: So um, that's what I can insu Can we come 394 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: and hang out and make a puppet of ourselves? Absolutely, 395 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: we always make a puppet that looks quite like it's 396 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: amazing to see it happening. It's how to make this happen, 397 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: and you're the one that's making these things happen. I 398 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: want I want to make one of ourselves so we 399 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: can just there. There are on the panels. There are 400 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: companies online to that that are like, there's an artist 401 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: in Colorado. I think that that's like their bread and 402 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: Butter is making lookalike puppets, so um, they're they're definitely 403 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: people that specialize and it's really go centric, but I'm like, oh, like, 404 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: how do personally? So I'm just gonna find someone to 405 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: mimic me too much. That is a that's a Netflix 406 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: show right there, because I don't realize that you've been 407 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: replaced by a puppet entire time. It's a puppet and 408 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: it's not actually me. Yes, find easy out. Sorry, no, 409 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: no worries. But I think that is an interesting point 410 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: as far as in deciding a puppet design, part of 411 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: it is what is the technique? Because you know what, 412 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: how how does each each form of puppetry has a 413 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: very different feeling to it. No hand uh, hand in 414 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: hand puppets like the Muppets, you know, that's a very 415 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: direct You can get a lot of emotion out of 416 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: the faces and the there's a real directness to that 417 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: that approach. Marionettes are perhaps they're a little more can 418 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: be graceful, but a little more removed. I would say 419 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: a distance. Yeah, there's a distance, even the distance between 420 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: the puppeteer and and the puppet. It it just changes 421 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: the personality and the sense of what this um uh, 422 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: the feeling for the audience. Um same with like direct manipulation, 423 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: Louis brought this beautiful picture the audience just can't see it. 424 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: But this chimpanzee puppet, that's a direct manipulation. And um, 425 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: through that three three person manipulation is one that uh 426 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, you can get so much real subtle gestures 427 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: and in a real sense of um of subtle movement 428 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: in in those kind of puppets. So each one of 429 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: those really creates a different uh feeling for the puppeteer 430 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: and for the audience, and a different set of challenges. UM. 431 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: So you'd also have to figure out what kind the 432 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: puppet you I was gonna say so because as a 433 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: novel is I didn't realize I knew marrying it and 434 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: I knew the hand puppet. What else is there? Because 435 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: you were talking about projection, there's a puppetry, and there's 436 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: Object theater which is now a very popular and there's 437 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: rod puppets, and there's um this may be too much 438 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: as can you exactly what that is? Because like when 439 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: you talk about object, what does that involve? It you 440 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: talked about, um, there's three people that can coordinate what? 441 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: Uh So the three person technique a lot of sort 442 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: of inspired by a Japanese technique called bunraku uh and 443 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: it's uh, there are three people. Usually it's like one 444 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: person on the head and right hand. Um, there's another 445 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: person on the feet and another person on the left 446 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: hand and they um that sometimes switches up, but that's 447 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: sort of the end. So they can really and usually 448 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: the joints are all articulated, so you can get a 449 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: really you know, natural movement out of that that technique. Uh. 450 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: Are those those pretty large size or okay that's not 451 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: the original Okay, yeah they were, UM, but I mean 452 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: you can get different sizes. It just depends on the 453 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: design of the show and the puppets. Um. And then 454 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: there's the object theater is uh is really you take 455 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: objects and manipulate them and it's it's really yeah, okay 456 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: can come to life with okay okay UM. And usually 457 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: with object theater, the particular objects might have um be 458 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: connected to a certain idea or you know, there are 459 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: a metaphor for something else that the you know in 460 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,719 Speaker 1: the story that you're trying to tell. So um, and 461 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: a shadow puppet tree is shadows uh, but but can 462 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: be giant puppetry. There are you know, puppet tears that 463 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: you masks and then have the full body plus the 464 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: mask that makes the character on top of their heads. 465 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: Uh so is that like the polar Bear from Coca 466 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: Cola would he be? That would be a body puppet 467 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: that cost characters are in that body body puppet, right, Yeah, 468 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: and fascinating. And there's a lot of research also, um 469 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: for the last few decades ago. You know shadow puppetry, 470 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: for example, they used to be screen and shadows and 471 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: you would look in the front and if you were 472 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: a man in the back, if you were a woman, 473 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: they would be separating. But now there's a lot of research. 474 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: You see the actual puppeteers holding their shadow and working 475 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: with the lamp in his hand and moving the shadow 476 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: and the shadows at the back of the stage and 477 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: a front of the stage. So it's it's fascinating. It's 478 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: always questioning the relationship between the puppet, the object and 479 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: the actor the manipulator, and in this questioning, it's it's 480 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: very interesting what's happening, and there's a lot of ongoing 481 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,479 Speaker 1: research about that. And what we must stress I think too, 482 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: is that more and more, um, we have to say 483 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: that puppetry art was always for adults and family, but 484 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: nowadays it's for many years it's always still often seen 485 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: as only for children, but it's of course there are 486 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: exquisite shows for children, but they are beautiful shows for adults, 487 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: and that's not as known. And what we started a 488 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: few years ago to launch as an idea is often 489 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: we used as an example Cartoon to say to people, 490 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: you know, cartoon, there's it's for kids, but also there's 491 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: excellent cartoons for adults. And people say, oh, yeah, that's true. 492 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: And now cartoon is recognized as the ninth art. So 493 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: we said, why don't we do this with puppetry So 494 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: it was our eleventh anniversary and guestile, so we say, okay, 495 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: we go for puppetry Arts are the eleventh art, So 496 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: we're launching that and we use that to you to 497 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: stress that perpetry arts is such a great theater form 498 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: and four adults. Well, I was going to say some 499 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: of these things sounds like that takes a lot of 500 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: choreography between each of the different especially if it's multi people, 501 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: multi persons, multi people like that. I'm just gonna say, 502 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: make up words just so you know, I'm really good 503 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: at this job and I make up words throughout. But yeah, 504 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: that sounds like a lot of choreography has to be played, 505 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: especially I know that you're talking about the Japanese one. 506 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that is exactly how it has to go. 507 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: They have to practice almost their marks and their movement 508 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: into whatever. Well, you have to spend ten years on 509 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: the feet and then you moved to the left arm 510 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: for ten years, and then afterwards you might be the 511 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: master of dealing with that. It was very very and 512 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: you also have to sweep the floor for ten years probably, 513 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 1: But it's this is the original bunraku. But now this 514 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: technique has been transformed in all sorts of new ways. 515 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a very demanding learning. It's like often 516 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: it's compared to musical instrument. That's amazing, except for every 517 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: puppet you pick up is like learning a new instrument. 518 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: You're talking about different forms. I would think you would 519 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: have to specialize in each one for a little while 520 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: to like learn that over again. Yeah, well, and I 521 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: think just also the construction can be You know, one 522 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: one puppeteer from the Center that I'll never forget learn 523 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: a Holle. She was our head puppeteer for many years, 524 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: and she would when she was presented with a new puppet, 525 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: she would pick it up and immediately just start playing 526 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: with it and just try different things and and be like, Okay, 527 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: how does this puppet work? And she would stretch it 528 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: to its limits in order to be like, Okay, what 529 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: what are the peculiarities of this puppet? How's it moved? 530 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: How's it jointed? Like what can I do with it? 531 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: And that was always like, like, what's the potential for 532 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: this object? Let me figure that out? And that was 533 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: always so inspiring to me, and and I think that's 534 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the joys of puppetryes. You can be like, Okay, 535 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: what's the potential in in this object? How do I 536 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: make this puppet really come to life? And each one 537 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: is really different and as different depending on the technique 538 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: that's used, UM, but also just the particular construction techniques 539 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I'm fascinated by that and by like 540 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: being able to communicate mannerisms with movements that you do. 541 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: It blows my mind. We have a little bit more 542 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have one more quick 543 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: break for words from our sponsor and we're back. Thank 544 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: you sponsor. Let's get back to the interview. So before 545 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: we wrap up here, I would love if UM both 546 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: of you. I know you've got like the fifteen year 547 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: anniversary and you've just opened up a center. Like what 548 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: what things are going on right now that people could 549 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: look to and what are you looking forward to in 550 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: the future other than the eleventh Art, I'm looking towards 551 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: developing a partnership with the Center of puppet Rearts. In 552 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: that center, oh yeah, and I'm looking to help creation, 553 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: to help the puppeteers to achieve their their dream, their project. 554 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: So if the house and what we do can push 555 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 1: them give them encouragement, That's what I look for because 556 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: I know the beauty of the results will be mesmerizing. 557 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: And I want I'm a programmer because I want to 558 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: have more people see and realize what puppetry can do. Yeah. Um, 559 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: I'm also looking forward to partnership at the Center for 560 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: puptear Arts. Uh. We're uh have things going on all 561 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: year round and uh and really I want to find 562 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: ways to connect are this amazing place that we have 563 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: in Atlanta to the world, um and to really find 564 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's so much such a rich uh 565 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: world of puppetry UH, and finding ways to bring that 566 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: here to to showcase it. UM is really Michael, you 567 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: guys have um, do you have camps up or we do? 568 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: We do have a camp. Uh yeah we uh, we 569 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: we have so much programming a lot of things that's 570 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: happening is really amazing and nice kid. We haven't gone yet, yes, yeah, 571 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: please do. Yeah, we have a great We have some 572 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: international companies coming in. Uh there's an Australian coming in February. Uh. 573 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: And uh, we've got museum programming all the time, family 574 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: programming all the time. We're just about to open up 575 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: our uh annual Rudolph Red Nose Reindeer. Yeah, I know, 576 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: it's alrighty, it's already here. So where can we find 577 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: you on the interwebs? Um Castellier dot c A castellier 578 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: means puppeteer. It means the person who worked in the 579 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: castell which is a puppet theater in French. So castilli 580 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: means puppeteer in Okay. And uh www dot puppets dot org, 581 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: which the center's website. Simple, yeah, find you immediately. That's um, 582 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: that's awesome, and listeners definitely go check out. If you're 583 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: near either of these centers, go check them out. May 584 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: I ask you a question? You're an actor an actress. 585 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: Would you work with puppets? Have you been in the 586 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: production with puppets? I have yes, much more of the 587 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: like monster coming after you variety, UM, and I have 588 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: UM in case it wasn't clear. I'd go to the 589 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: center of puff Shards pretty regularly and I've made some 590 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: puppets there, but I have no real experience beyond that. UM, 591 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: but very interested. Yeah, I would love to work with 592 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: them or this is This was definitely her idea. She 593 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: was really excited about doing all these things and has 594 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: talked about Dark Crystal and how much she loves it. 595 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: So yes, which is the interesting thing about that, Going 596 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: back to your point about how a lot of people, 597 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: at least where we are, associate puppets with children. UM. 598 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: I had a friend who I made her watch that 599 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: and she was so upset at me because she's like, 600 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: it's puppets. It's supposed to be happiness, sid not on always. 601 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: So I think it is changing, um, as we are 602 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: more exposed to it, and also as we more recognize it, 603 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: because I think some people just don't think of puppets 604 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: when they see them in bigger Hollywood movies or TV shows. 605 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: They don't realize that that the puppet, right. I will 606 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: say when I watched Lily, how it represented different personalities 607 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: of that one man and it was like, what five 608 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 1: different characters that it was, it was pretty ills, Like, huh, 609 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: that's really thought provoking. I didn't think about how this 610 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: was extensions of himself. Have you ever seen the movie? 611 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to watch it. It's really good. Yeah, 612 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: I forgot how much I love that. Okay, okay, um, 613 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Thank you. I'm really because I didn't know 614 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: anything about this. I was like, Annie, this is all 615 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: you now. I'm really excited to have to comes with you. 616 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: Louises Festival in March is phenomenal. So it's also so, 617 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: where is is it in Montreal? Montreal? Okay, we're going 618 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: in and you welcome trip for coming. Yes, thank you 619 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: both so much for coming much. This brings us to 620 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: the end of our interview. Unfortunately we had some time 621 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: constraints or we would have kept going and go and 622 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: I have so many more questions. I know, I did 623 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: you got really into it at the end. I was like, yes, happening, 624 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and this and this and this. I feel 625 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: like we had a connection. We're talking about Lily, I 626 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: think you did. I feel very happy about this. And 627 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: as we said, any listeners who are ever in those 628 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: areas Montreal or Atlanta, and I'm sure around the world, 629 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: please please right in if you have a similar center 630 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: where you are, check them out. They're really cool. I 631 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: haven't been to the one in Montreal, but I can 632 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: feel in my bones it's very cool. And then we're planning, 633 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to go. I feel like this 634 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: is definitely an episode happening in March. Yes, so we'll 635 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 1: be there. We're just gonna go ahead and say, yes, 636 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: that's happening. Uh. And we'll probably have a bit more 637 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: to say about this later. But that is all for today. 638 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: Thank you guys, Yes, thanks so much to our interviewees 639 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,280 Speaker 1: for coming in. Um, thanks as always to our superproducer 640 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: Andrew howardzing Um. Thanks to you for listening, and as always, 641 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: you can write in at our email address, Stuff Media, 642 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find 643 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram 644 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never told you. We would love to 645 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: hear from you. Stuff Mom Never told You. His protection 646 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 647 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, 648 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite ships.