1 00:00:03,090 --> 00:00:06,170 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,940 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Robert Lamb, and this is The Artifact, 3 00:00:13,060 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: a short-form series from Stuff to Blow Your Mind focusing 4 00:00:15,580 --> 00:00:20,110 Speaker 2: on particular objects, ideas, and moments in time. This week 5 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:23,550 Speaker 2: I have a spooky fictional artifact to discuss with you 6 00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:27,270 Speaker 2: for the week of Halloween. It is The Devil's Country, 7 00:00:27,710 --> 00:00:31,590 Speaker 2: a deeply haunted, tiled, mosaic room central to the plot 8 00:00:32,090 --> 00:00:38,210 Speaker 2: of Clive Barker's 2001 horror novel, Cold Heart Canyon. Barker 9 00:00:38,350 --> 00:00:42,349 Speaker 2: frequently incorporates a work of visual art and or craftsmanship 10 00:00:42,729 --> 00:00:46,410 Speaker 2: into his fictions, a work that serves as some manner 11 00:00:46,450 --> 00:00:51,540 Speaker 2: of gateway to another world, or it contains another world altogether. 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,660 Speaker 2: The biggest mainstream example of this is, of course, the 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,020 Speaker 2: Lament Configuration puzzle box from The Hellbound Heart and the 14 00:00:59,060 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: ensuing Hellraiser film franchise. But we also find the art 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,980 Speaker 2: as portal element in Weave World and the Book of 16 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: the Art series. It's a fitting recurring theme given Barker's 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,190 Speaker 2: work as both a writer and as a painter. I'm 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,250 Speaker 2: going to dig a bit more into spoilery territory on 19 00:01:18,310 --> 00:01:21,450 Speaker 2: Coldheart Canyon from here on out. So if you want 20 00:01:21,490 --> 00:01:25,250 Speaker 2: to venture into this Hollywood ghost story completely fresh, best 21 00:01:25,270 --> 00:01:27,470 Speaker 2: go ahead and pause things now or skip ahead to 22 00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:30,420 Speaker 2: the next episode. I'm not going to reveal how the 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,020 Speaker 2: book ends or anything like that, but I am going 24 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: to reveal a few things. Alright, are we good? Here 25 00:01:37,180 --> 00:01:40,860 Speaker 2: we go. When we first encounter the Devil's Country, it 26 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: resides in the place it was commissioned, a subterranean room 27 00:01:45,459 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: beneath a medieval Romanian castle. The tiles illustrate a phantasmagorical 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,540 Speaker 2: wilderness full of cruel hunters, monstrous beasts, and all manner 29 00:01:55,580 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: of depravities. The setting at this point is 1920, and 30 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:04,770 Speaker 2: the work interests Hollywood agent Willem Zephyr, who's visiting with 31 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:10,630 Speaker 2: Romanian-born Hollywood starlet Katia Lupi. Zephyr buys the old masterwork 32 00:02:10,690 --> 00:02:13,510 Speaker 2: from the monks who protect it, hoping to win Katia's 33 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:16,850 Speaker 2: heart by having it relocated to America and gifting it 34 00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:19,470 Speaker 2: to her. And that's exactly what he attempts to do. 35 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:23,230 Speaker 2: He has it catalogued, disassembled, shipped across an ocean and 36 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:26,310 Speaker 2: a continent, and then reconstructed in the basement of a 37 00:02:26,370 --> 00:02:30,330 Speaker 2: mansion located in what will become known as Cold Hard 38 00:02:30,410 --> 00:02:34,070 Speaker 2: Canyon in the Hollywood Hills. But of course, the mysterious 39 00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:36,820 Speaker 2: work of art is more than just a room made 40 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,220 Speaker 2: out of mosaics. It's a gateway into some other realm, 41 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: and those who interact with it become addicted to its 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:49,330 Speaker 2: life-extending and soul-corrupting powers. It ultimately allows Caciolupi to live 43 00:02:49,370 --> 00:02:53,110 Speaker 2: into the 21st century without visibly aging at all, while 44 00:02:53,169 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: the ghosts of the various Hollywood elites of yesteryear once 45 00:02:57,540 --> 00:03:01,590 Speaker 2: exposed to the room's power, haunt the grounds of her mansion, 46 00:03:02,090 --> 00:03:04,870 Speaker 2: begging to be let back in so they can see 47 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:07,770 Speaker 2: it once more, so they can experience its power once more. 48 00:03:08,110 --> 00:03:11,630 Speaker 2: But of course, Katja keeps it greedily to herself at 49 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:14,870 Speaker 2: this point, because she's not sure how much longer it 50 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:16,950 Speaker 2: will last. She doesn't want to use it up, and 51 00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:18,950 Speaker 2: she just wants to keep on living, even though she's 52 00:03:19,010 --> 00:03:22,169 Speaker 2: now a recluse and is removed from the Hollywood scene. 53 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:25,620 Speaker 2: In the book, we eventually learn the origin of the 54 00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:30,260 Speaker 2: devil's country, this fabulous work of mosaic art now situated 55 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:32,419 Speaker 2: in the basement of a mansion in the Hollywood Hills. 56 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,140 Speaker 2: We learn that a Romanian duke by the name of 57 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,300 Speaker 2: Goga returned from the Crusades, hunted and killed a goat 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: that turned out to actually be the devil's son. And 59 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,230 Speaker 2: his punishment, the devil's wife, Lilith, punished him and his 60 00:03:46,270 --> 00:03:51,589 Speaker 2: fellow hunters with an eternal hunt to recapture her satyr-like child. 61 00:03:52,370 --> 00:03:56,130 Speaker 2: They're trapped within this pocket world contained within the grand 62 00:03:56,270 --> 00:04:00,500 Speaker 2: mosaic work that Lilith herself commissioned in the Duke's old 63 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: castle in Romania. It's a richly imagined setting full of 64 00:04:04,580 --> 00:04:08,220 Speaker 2: darkness and perversion. And with it, Barker plays with both 65 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,130 Speaker 2: elements of the folkloric wild hunt with Goga and his men, 66 00:04:12,790 --> 00:04:17,230 Speaker 2: Mesopotamian and Jewish mythology with Lilith, who in some traditions 67 00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:20,140 Speaker 2: is held to have been Adam's first wife. and then, 68 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:23,420 Speaker 2: in this telling anyway, becomes the wife of the devil. 69 00:04:24,140 --> 00:04:27,580 Speaker 2: And then there is the room itself. So it's worth 70 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: noting that all works of art are really portals of 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,710 Speaker 2: some sort, right? And naturally, any landscape painting is going 72 00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:39,950 Speaker 2: to transport us there, perhaps even connecting with our primal 73 00:04:40,070 --> 00:04:44,630 Speaker 2: hunter-gatherer survival instincts. We've talked about this in some older 74 00:04:44,690 --> 00:04:46,690 Speaker 2: episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. There are some 75 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,660 Speaker 2: Some ideas that when we look at a landscape, we're 76 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,140 Speaker 2: kind of like looking where we think we should go, 77 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: where we're going to have the best visibility and or 78 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,110 Speaker 2: protection or the best success as a forager, that sort 79 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:02,650 Speaker 2: of thing. But there have also certainly been various works, 80 00:05:02,950 --> 00:05:07,070 Speaker 2: old and contemporary, that attempt to transform a single room 81 00:05:07,230 --> 00:05:11,970 Speaker 2: into another world, an environment of some sort, a different space. 82 00:05:12,410 --> 00:05:14,830 Speaker 2: And certainly you can go to places like Meow Wolf. 83 00:05:14,970 --> 00:05:18,140 Speaker 2: You can go to various... art installations at airports. I 84 00:05:18,339 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: can think of one at Atlanta's own Hartsville Jackson, where 85 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:24,290 Speaker 2: you're traveling through, you're on the conveyor belt, and oh, 86 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: it's like you're in a jungle. You know, it's immersive. 87 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:32,060 Speaker 2: It transforms just another room into some sort of an environment. Now, 88 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:35,380 Speaker 2: for specific older examples, we might look to the Villa 89 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: of the Mysteries on the outskirts of Pompeii, which features 90 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:42,620 Speaker 2: a well-preserved series of frescoes that wraps the room and 91 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:46,020 Speaker 2: seems to depict a Roman bride's initiation into the mystery 92 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:49,620 Speaker 2: cult of Bacchus. This dates to the first century BCE. 93 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,300 Speaker 2: You can look up images of this online. There's also 94 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,010 Speaker 2: the Villa of Livia from the same time period, which 95 00:05:56,070 --> 00:06:02,710 Speaker 2: features a partially subterranean garden room. So floor-to-ceiling frescoes that 96 00:06:02,750 --> 00:06:06,450 Speaker 2: immerse the visitor in a garden paradise. And this is 97 00:06:06,490 --> 00:06:08,789 Speaker 2: fascinating to read about as well, the idea that you would... 98 00:06:09,100 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: Travel through this hallway and then emerge into this lit 99 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: room that gives you this feeling of being in a garden. 100 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,470 Speaker 2: Clive Barker's Imagined Devil's Country takes this concept more in 101 00:06:22,490 --> 00:06:25,489 Speaker 2: the direction of the fantastic, the cryptic, and the hellish. 102 00:06:25,870 --> 00:06:27,690 Speaker 2: Something more in line with what a lot of us 103 00:06:27,730 --> 00:06:29,950 Speaker 2: think of when we think about the work of 15th 104 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:35,210 Speaker 2: and 16th century Dutch painter Hieronymus Bosch, who Barker directly 105 00:06:35,330 --> 00:06:38,460 Speaker 2: references in the book. Of course, as we've discussed on 106 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:41,730 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind before, experts stress that the intended, 107 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:44,530 Speaker 2: or many experts stress, this is an area of some 108 00:06:44,570 --> 00:06:47,529 Speaker 2: discussion over the years, but many experts stress that the 109 00:06:47,589 --> 00:06:52,690 Speaker 2: intended viewers of Bosch's paintings would have understood its symbolism 110 00:06:52,810 --> 00:06:56,950 Speaker 2: a lot more than the average viewer today. The Garden 111 00:06:57,089 --> 00:07:01,150 Speaker 2: of Earthly Delights, for example, his perhaps most famous work, 112 00:07:01,430 --> 00:07:06,610 Speaker 2: is full of Christian iconography and Netherlandish proverbs and that 113 00:07:06,690 --> 00:07:10,090 Speaker 2: are brought to visual life, along with certain elements of 114 00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:13,650 Speaker 2: intentional enigma as well. I don't think anyone's completely discounting 115 00:07:13,970 --> 00:07:17,290 Speaker 2: the role of Riddle in his work, but the idea 116 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:20,070 Speaker 2: is that a lot of people would have known exactly 117 00:07:20,130 --> 00:07:23,370 Speaker 2: what he was talking about or hinting at, more so 118 00:07:23,470 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: than just casual viewers today. Though, to be clear, art 119 00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: historians have historically argued different points of view on Bosch's work. However, 120 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,930 Speaker 2: the work of Hieronymus Bosch certainly feels like a glimpse 121 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:40,310 Speaker 2: into an alien or psychedelic realm, or it can, and 122 00:07:40,350 --> 00:07:44,790 Speaker 2: that's clearly an idea that Barker plays with in Coldheart Canyon, 123 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:49,790 Speaker 2: as well as the deeper idea that works of ingenious creation, 124 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:54,150 Speaker 2: be they mosaics, paintings, works of literature, they can all 125 00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: be entirely immersive and even difficult, if not impossible, to escape. 126 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:03,420 Speaker 2: Tune in to additional editions of The Artifact, The Monster Fact, 127 00:08:03,460 --> 00:08:06,540 Speaker 2: or Atomalia Stupendium each week. As always, you can email 128 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,730 Speaker 2: us at contact at stufftoblowyourmind.com. 129 00:08:19,210 --> 00:08:21,660 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio. 130 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple 131 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.