1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,079 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. UH is your boy Doug gottlie and 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: you listen to the All Ball Podcast. You got a 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: great guest for you. We'll get to a living later 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: on the pod. I want to share with you my 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: thoughts on two things. One something Roy Williams said about 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: his team, and uh, just to kind of an overall 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: sense in college basketball, plus some more NBA tidbits before 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: we get to our guest this week. By the way, 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb Show pree to 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: sixth Eastern, twelve to three Pacific on your I Heart 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: Radio app, on Fox Sports Radio or Fox Sports Tradio 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: dot Com or on your terrestrial that that's like your 13 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: average radio or series x M to seventeen or two 14 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: oh three. So Roy Williams said, basically, this is the 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: least talented team that he's ever had, and it's not wrong. Um. 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: And while people are pointing out, hey, there's four stars 17 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: and five stars still on the roster even without Cole Anthony, 18 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: that the fact remains that you lose far and away 19 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: your best freshman, Okay, and you lose. Um. I mean, 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm not sure people have a healthy respect for how 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: hard it is to hit reset, you know, because think 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: about what they lost from last season. The last season 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: team was good. Um, I think he did a great 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: job of getting the play you know, together, considering you 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: had young players and old players kind of all mixed together. 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: But but think about this for a second now, Okay, Um, 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 1: you lose Cameron Johnson, Kobe White, Luke may Not Na's 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: little all right, And I mean you lose your four 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: absolute best players. It's not really close, not even close 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: to being close, right. Uh. In addition to which, you know, 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: you lose Kenny Williams to to graduations, So you lose 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: your five leading scores. It's crazy, right, lose your five 33 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: legion scores. And you know that remarkably, the the sixth 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: best score on last year's team was Garrison Brooks, who's 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: averaging fourteen a game. For you, couple of things. One, 36 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: you lose your point guard. This is how you're gonna look. 37 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: It's all like if you lose your quarterback. You know, 38 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: you look like an inferior coach. Think about Dabbo Sweeney. 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: What did Dabbo look like when before he had Shaun 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: Watson and now that he has Trevor Lawrence And what 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: he looked like when you know, go through all the 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: other Clemson quarterbacks were good, but they're just not elite, 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: and elite quarterbacks make you look like an elite coach. 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: But I don't know if everybody thinks they're equipped for 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: the one and done. Remember they lost to one and 46 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: duns Um Do I think Nasira Little not playing you 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: only playing eighteen minutes a game hurt him in terms 48 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: of recruiting, probably a little bit. But whatever was hurt 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: by Nacier Little's helped by Kobe White, who he gave 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: a complete green light to right. So it's still Carolina. 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: It's a competitive field. I think this kind of relates 52 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: to the bigger question about where'd all the players go 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: in college basketball? Right? Where are all the And this 54 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: is what happens when there's a Memphis who gets to 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: James Wiseman. This is what happens when a couple of 56 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: players go to play overseas that all of a sudden, 57 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: Now you know, look on a given year, there are 58 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: anywhere between five and fifteen great freshman five and fifteen, 59 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: and when you lose, you know, three of them to 60 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: overseas or not playing in college. The rest gets spread 61 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: out Arizona's got a really young squad. They have a 62 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: couple of them, um go around the country and and look, 63 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: you know, Nova's got a really young squad mixed in 64 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: with some older pieces, but they don't have any like 65 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: kind of breakthrough prolific talents. Kentucky has what one and 66 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: some other freshmen. Duke has one, and maybe you know 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: in Vernon carry and I sh just Stanley. I guess 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: you know now Louisville is a player in the elite. 69 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: So when you have Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, Memphis, Arizona, 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: I know, I'm forgetting a couple all fighting over the 71 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: same kind of small group of stars, and you lose 72 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: a couple off the top, and James Wiseman is not 73 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: playing and Cole Anthony gets hurt, and oh yeah, by 74 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: the way, there are second level guys who left school 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: or early to go to the pros or got upset 76 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: at a lack of playing time or not being the 77 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: first level guys, and they transferred. They're sitting out. It's 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: not one thing that's led to college basketball being a 79 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: lot like North Carolina, right. Roy Williams argument for this 80 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: being the least talent team. It's inarguable and compared a 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: number of NBA players can parison to any other time 82 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: he's coached at Carolina and probably most end of the 83 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: time he's been in Kansas. I would also say that 84 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: the sport he's really really spread out. It's lacking the 85 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: top end talent, and even not just the top and talent, 86 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: that second tier talent has also you know, transferred left 87 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: whatever because it was it was unhappy or gone to 88 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: the NBA because it thought you know, I mean, look 89 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: at Iowa State losing two players who don't even have 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: two way contracts. You know, of course i Alway State 91 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: gets blown out. That's why Kansas um is the elite 92 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: team in the Big twelve, because they've been able because 93 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: Udoka has a book at one got hurt and two 94 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: because his position is really not as desirable in the NBA, 95 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, and the rest of their team is made 96 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: up of good not great players. They've kind of nailed 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: it and that maybe it's not the greatest thing to 98 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: get the top level recruits, but if you can get 99 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: guys and play them and keep them in school, you've 100 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: got a chance to be really good. So I guess 101 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: the the ending statement to what Roy Williams saying. Look, 102 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: it's a challenge to recruiting. You have to change when 103 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of some teams can survive without 104 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: a point guard, but if you're or system is really 105 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: point guard dependent, usually, which is North Carolina says, calls 106 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: the offenses, calls the defense, and then the build up 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: of this team was completely built around Cole Anthony. Then 108 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: you lose him and you lost your top five scores 109 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: from last year, You lost both old and mature, and 110 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: your your culture centers, and you lost your new up 111 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: and comers. This is what happens, and this is the 112 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: challenge of college basketball. And the question becomes, how do 113 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: you fix it right? How do you fix it? Because 114 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: I know there's the there, there's a group of people that, well, listen, yeah, 115 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: you're just compensating for name and likeness. They'll stay like, no, 116 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: they won't because they're not chasing after thousands, They're chasing 117 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: after millions, even if the millions aren't really there. I 118 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: feel like we're in this realm where everyone knows the 119 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: G League is coming on strong and they're gonna start. 120 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: At some point, someone is going to decide, hey, I'm 121 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: not gonna play in college. I'm gonna play in the 122 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: G League. I don't think it'll go well for them, 123 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: but they'll still probably get drafted or whatever. Remember, people 124 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: have been able to do that since the G League 125 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: was the D League. Um, but I do feel like 126 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: the G League is coming on strong from a perception standpoint, 127 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: and we're kind of downplaying what Zion Williamson said this week, 128 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: which is, you know, truth be told, I would have 129 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: rather stayed at Duke. I was having a lot of fun, 130 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure even if he has a bunch 131 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: of money, if he's having all that much fun. I 132 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: kind of think that's the part that needs to be 133 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: relayed two basketball people and parents, but especially to the players, like, look, 134 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: you're gonna make money, if you're really good, you're always 135 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: gonna have a job. But this is the most fun 136 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: you're ever gonna have. And you just don't have nearly 137 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: as much fun playing in the NBA or playing overseas 138 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: or playing in the G League. So college basketball is 139 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: in a weird place. I'm not totally sure how to 140 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: fix it. I think the NBA is going to try 141 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: and do what is in the best interest in the NBA, 142 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: and they don't feel like it is keeping kids in college. 143 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: It's gonna be sending guys to the G League. But 144 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: the G League isn't coached by nearly as good at coaches, 145 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: they don't practice as hard um, the level of talent 146 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: is better, the style of basketball is different. There is 147 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: no fans support, there is no no TV. People don't 148 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: watch it on TV. You're losing a bunch of it. 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: But we're in this weird transition period where college basketball 150 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: seems to be slipping on some level to the level 151 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: of college baseball. The difference, obviously is there's still really 152 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: really good talent, still really really good coaches. There's incredible resources, 153 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: the practice facilities, the lower end of the coaching in 154 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: terms of the assistants and the g as, like those 155 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: guys are great workers, and there's a greater depth of 156 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: resources than they have for the G League. But the 157 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: top end talent is just not there. One because of 158 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: the season. Two because of now you go through three 159 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: or four years of anybody with a pulse going to 160 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: the NBA Draft and a couple of guys going overseas 161 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: and a couple of guys getting hurt and one guy 162 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: choosing to withdraw from college after playing a handful of games. 163 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: And here we are. Be sure to catch the live 164 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm 165 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I 166 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. AHAP, All right, let's catch out with him. 167 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: He's a native of sugar Land, Texas, which of course Houston, Texas, 168 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: and then he went in and played at at Bradley. 169 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: He's an assistant coach at TCU following a stint at 170 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: at U c l A. He's Dyne Broussard. He joins 171 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: us in the All Ball podcast. Uh, coach, give me 172 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: what we go back, man, This is going back a 173 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: long time. Your your your your. Your first memory of 174 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: hoop was what, oh, maybe four or five years of 175 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: age when my father came home one day and had 176 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: a basketball in the back of his car and and 177 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: handed it over to me and said, if you're gonna play, 178 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: then you're gonna have to work at it. But here's 179 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: the ball, so get to work. Did your dad you 180 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: know what? No, we're not in college, but play a 181 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: little bit high school and in some wreck leagues when 182 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: he was older. A good player, but never had a 183 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: chance to play in college. What do you do for living? 184 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's okay. What do 185 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: you do for a living? Uh? So he Um, I 186 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: went to college on a swimming scholarship. He went to 187 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: Grambling State University and then from there he was drafted 188 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: into UH beyond Forces, went to Germany and then UH 189 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: served time there. That's where I was born, and then 190 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: came back to the United States with a mother and 191 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: then ended up having a thirty five career with Harris 192 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: County a probations at Houston, Texas. And UH has been 193 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: retired now, I think for about twelve years. So he 194 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: was was he a pro he's a pro officer or 195 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: did he serve it? Did he was? He was approbation officer, 196 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: so uh, you know, parole is his app to get 197 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: out of out of the penitentiary and and and I 198 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: think he was before that. He was before that that stage. 199 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: So that probation officer for for a long time in Houston. 200 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: So and very successful, very good man. Taught me a 201 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: lot about life, still does to this very day. So UM, 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: very proud to be his son. You were you You're 203 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: a hell of a player, right you go to Bradley 204 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: and play. What was he like? You know, in terms 205 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: of you and I know through your your travels as 206 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: an assistant coach, you see all kinds of dads in 207 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: terms of their involvement. Um, it's it's weird. It's weird 208 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: because some dads, you know, like my dad, probably overly involved. 209 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: And that's that's become a little bit more of the norm. 210 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: You know, not all the kids have a mom and 211 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: dad in their home, but the ones that do, the 212 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: moms and dads are really really involved. What was he 213 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: like during your basketball career? Uh, he was, I would 214 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: say he was. He was. He was really volved. Um. 215 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: He gave me a lot of insight, taught me a 216 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: lot about the game. And there were times and says 217 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: you can imagine, Doug, and I'm sure you you were 218 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: like this where I probably didn't want to hear what 219 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: he had to say because sometimes I thought he could 220 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: be a little overcritical. But at the end of the day, 221 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: I knew he meant well and he loved me so. Um. 222 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: And that's why to this day, if it's not basketball, 223 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: because I'm a basketball coach, if it's something about life, 224 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: I I do listen to him, I really do. I 225 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: listened to him so but he helped me a lot, 226 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: helped me a lot about playing the position of point 227 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: guard and in understanding players and how to build relationships 228 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: and build trust and and um, you know, those lessons 229 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: have have certainly helped me in my profession. Uh right 230 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: now at this very moment, so very very very very 231 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: fortunate to have had him in my ear. You know, Yeah, 232 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: why why or Bradley? Well, Bradley at the time, Um, 233 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: it was coming off a couple of successful years because 234 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: I was coming right behind HURSTI, Hawkins and zim Lass 235 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: and had never really been to the Upper Midwest UM 236 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: to visit. And during the au seasons when I would 237 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: play in the summertime, whenever I went on across individuals 238 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: of players from that part of the country, they were 239 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: all ways and almost always the ones that were most 240 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: difficult to guard and play. Again, so I figured, Okay, 241 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: if I'm playing against these individuals and I'm and I'm 242 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: not having a whole lot of chefs, and maybe I'll 243 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: go up there and learn how to play like that. 244 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: And Bradley was very forthcoming and their interests of me 245 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: and and I had a position for me and it 246 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,119 Speaker 1: was a private school, and I loved the living situation, 247 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: and it just worked out, you know it, it worked out. 248 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: I had other schools at the time recruiting me, but 249 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: Bradley was the one that made the most sense at 250 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: the time, and that's why I went. I went to 251 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: school there. So you wanted to go play for standing 252 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: all Back? Right, what was what I did? I played 253 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: for stant all Back. Yeah. I played for stant all 254 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: Back for two years, my first two years there, and 255 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: that was good. You know. It was a different brand 256 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: of basketball than when I was accustomed to. Um you know, 257 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: kind of more open and more fast paced. And to 258 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: be quite honest with you, exact the record books, we 259 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: weren't very good our first two years. Um ar a 260 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: Bradley and staying left. And then incomes Jim Mulinary and 261 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: I played for Jim Mullinery for my last two years 262 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: and eventually ended up working for him as a coach 263 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: for nine years. So Jim Mulliner and I are great 264 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: friends today. He's like a big brother to me. So 265 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: those last two years, I learned a different brand of 266 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: basketball there. I gotta learn how to play defense, and 267 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: uh so I don't don't even know this, but Jim, 268 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: of course went to Kansas State might add we're gonna 269 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: play play Kansas State and or Jack Hartmanly. So obviously 270 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: the coach coach mall now is is that coach mo is? 271 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: That is? That? Is that Oklahoma? All right? So your 272 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: first so your first couple years, you're going up and down, 273 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: going up and down, not a lot of success. Jim 274 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: Mallinary comes in and you know how it works nowadays 275 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: with you've been a part of new staffs. New staffs 276 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: generally you run guys off and you bring in your 277 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: own guys. What was it like when Jim, when Jim 278 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: Mallinary first got the job, that you try and run 279 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: you off? No, no, no, it was just the opposite. 280 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: And he'll tell you the story if you have a 281 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: talk to him. When you take over a new job, obviously, 282 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: as a coach, you interview all the players and all 283 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: the support staff. You kind of get a feel for 284 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: what's in place. And unfortunately for me, every player that 285 00:15:53,000 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: he interviewed, all of my teammates, said Keith Dwayne. Keith Wayne, Okay, 286 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: and I think because I was a well liked individual 287 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: and so I stayed. And that's kind of how it 288 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: all happened with me continuing my career and getting a 289 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: college degree from Bradley. You know, I was obviously I 290 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: was a little nervous um because of the coaching change, 291 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: but it all worked out. I mean, it all worked out, 292 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: and I uh, I was a start of my junior year, 293 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: and then there was a crop of freshman that came 294 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: in my senior year and I started half the season, 295 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: and then the second half of my senior year, I 296 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: came off the bench as a six man. What was 297 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: possibly fine because we became a really really good team. 298 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: And then when I started coaching, I mean, we were 299 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: really really good. So it all worked out. You know, 300 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: it it all worked out, and I was I was 301 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: fortunate the place to have had a chance to stay 302 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: and be on coach's staff and be on his team. 303 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: So it all worked out. It was good all. I 304 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: want to get to a couple of things you learned 305 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: during the bad years. You're I think it was your 306 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: sophomore year. You guys were eight and twenty. Your best 307 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: players a guy named Curtis Stucky. He averaged five. Okay, 308 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: how did a guy average twenty five a game in 309 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: the valley and you guys be so bad? Why why 310 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: did you not win? Well? I I think we had 311 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: probably had less of an attention to detail and the 312 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: defensive end. You know, I think we probably had some 313 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: chemistry issues, um, and I think those two were the 314 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: main things. Well, honestly, I think, you know, we probably 315 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: had you know, players that didn't work on our game enough, 316 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: and um, as a result, didn't get any better. So 317 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: so I think that's what that's what happens, And that's 318 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: what typically happens. And all players aren't as good as 319 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: they need to be, and um, you know, there's no 320 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: chemistry and and and people don't want to work together 321 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: if I recall, and that's what happened, and we collapse. 322 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: Your your senior heere you mentioned you started coming out 323 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: to the bench. You had a freshman name Dion Jackson, 324 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: another freshman name Billy right, right, what's that? What's that 325 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: like to be? Wait, you've been here four years, You've 326 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: been through all of it, Like, do you remember the 327 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: emotions of the time where you were you really good 328 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: with it? Were you really that good at teaming? Well? Well, 329 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: initially know it was an embarrassing thing, but but I 330 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: had such I had forced such a great relationship with 331 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: coach Mullen and her and the staff, and I think 332 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: on that particular staff, Rob was now at Marquette and 333 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: then Richard McKay was on that staff, who is now 334 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: at Liberty doing a phenomenal job. Um. They pulled me 335 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: in and told me this would be best for our 336 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: program and so and my leader spability would impacted. So 337 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, I put the bullet dug and accepted my role, 338 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: and it worked out for the betterment of the team. 339 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: You know, I still play, didn't play as much. I 340 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: wasn't playing twenty seven minutes a game, but I still 341 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: recall that in crucial moments I was on the floor 342 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: and at times really right, who is now the head 343 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: coach at Western Illinois, who's a really good friend of mine, 344 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: a brother to me, was well deserving of that position. 345 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: He was. He was well deserving. He had come off 346 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: of winning the state championship in the state of Indiana 347 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: at Richmond High School and it was very very good, 348 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: there's no doubt, very very good. And so UM, it's 349 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: just it's just something that happened and needed to take place, 350 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: and and and it was good. Like I said, we 351 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: we ended up we had a streak in the second 352 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: half of the Citizen where and my members maybe wrong 353 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: with Doug, but we we I think our last nine 354 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: games we won seven of them. And what do you 355 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: want to do? You want to know because I have it, 356 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: I do have it in front of me, if you 357 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: if you'd like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So here 358 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: it started. Uh let's see here you are eight and three. 359 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: Let me just make sure this is the right year here. 360 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: Uh sorry, that's that's coach Mall's second year. So his 361 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: this is his coach Malls? What his se year? All right? 362 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: You were you guys finished up seven and eleven in 363 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: in valley play. At one point in the year you 364 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: were five and fourteen, right, but you won six of 365 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: your five of your last six is that was five 366 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: of your last six six? Right? Yeah? You beat Indiana 367 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: State of the Road, you held in the thirty six points, right, 368 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: beat you beat Tulsa. It was really good. You beat Tulsa, 369 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: You beat Illinois State, you lost to Drake, You've beat 370 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: You beat Northern by like almost thirty. Then you beat 371 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: De paul uh in a non conference last game of 372 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: the season, and then you lost in overtime to southern Illinois. 373 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: That's right, right, that's right, that's right, that's right, that's 374 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: exactly right. And then the following year, the following years 375 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: when it all just kind of came together and I 376 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: was a part of that team. I was a coach, 377 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: then I was a directive. Operation was good? All right? 378 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: So so you get done playing? How did you come 379 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: about that you stayed on staff? Do you remember? Was 380 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: there a did you guys have a meeting when your 381 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: career was over? What did you did you? How did 382 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: it work? No? No, that's so funny story, little tid 383 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: been here. I had been interviewed my senior year, the 384 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: second half of my senie, I had been interviewed by 385 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: the United States Secret Service three times, because that was 386 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: the direction I was going to go into. I was 387 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: gonna go work for the Secret Service. And if I 388 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: didn't do that, then, um, I had an opportunity to 389 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: go to law school in Texas. So I was gonna 390 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: do something in law enforcement because that was my background. 391 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: So when I graduated, I think made fifteenth of that year, 392 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: I was all set to come back home to Houston 393 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: and spend the bottle we could tell, and then I 394 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: was going to go off and do all of my 395 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: education and training with the Secret Service. That's what I 396 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: was getting ready to do. We had a coaching scene. 397 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: Rich McKay left and went to Washington and I went 398 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: home on a Sunday. I graduated on a Saturday. I 399 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: went home on a Sunday. On Tuesday, Coach Bo called me. 400 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: He just called me and says, I had a plane 401 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: taking you at Hobby Airport in Houston. It's time to 402 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: come back here and start her coaching career. And I'm like, Oh, 403 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. And that's how it started. 404 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: That's exactly how it started. They called the Secret Service 405 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: and said I'm out, and I let the people know 406 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: what they at St. Mary's Law School in San Antonio, 407 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: Texas that I was not going to be attending. And 408 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: that's how it happened. It's exactly how it happened. And 409 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: that was twenty five years ago. Years ago. That's what happened. 410 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 1: What was your salary your first year? Do you remember? Well? 411 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: I was a restricted earnings coach and so you being 412 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: well versed in all of college athletics, I mean you 413 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: understand that terminology I was allowed to Uh, I think 414 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: makes no more than four tho dollars a year. But 415 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't that. It was a lot less than that. 416 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: It was a lot less than that. It was probably 417 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: somewhere in the teams, as I recall. So it wasn't 418 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: a lot. It wasn't a lot. But I was very 419 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: fortunate and very thankful, um, working for my alma mater 420 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: and working for coach Mollinarire. So it was it was 421 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: a good situation. It was really what how did that 422 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: relationship evolve? You know, you he didn't recruit you. You 423 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: become a player, you're a starting point guard, then you 424 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: come off the bench for him, then he hires you 425 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: as a coach like this, These are different ways in 426 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: which how did it evolve? Now you're an assistant coach, 427 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, right out of college. What was your relationship 428 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: like with with with Jim? Well, I trusted him. I 429 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: trusted him and and I think part of the reason 430 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: trusted him so much as because he was he had 431 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: proven himself to be a great man of integrity, you know, 432 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: his his faith, um, which we connected on a on 433 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: a on a spiritual level. That way. Um, he taught 434 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: me a lot about life, you know, through his faith 435 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: and through his integrity, and even though I may not 436 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: have played the minutes that a junior or senior would 437 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: sometimes deserve because of all the sacrifice if you go through, 438 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: I still was an integral part of the team and 439 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: had a tremendous hybrow. And I think that's where he 440 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: saw something in me that would allow me to be 441 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: able to become a coach. Okay, I had a relationship 442 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: with the young guys, and he thought even though we 443 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: were teammates, Doug, there was still enough separation and age 444 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: where if I needed to convey a message or get 445 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: across UM instructions that I would still hold and have 446 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: the respect of my former teammates and now the guys 447 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: that I was coaching. He saw that in me, and 448 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: he empowered me to UM to be that way with 449 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: with our young players, and and so that that four 450 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: stars even more. Your your best player was your first 451 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: year was a freshman named Anthony Parker. He went on 452 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: to become you know, in the conference. There's been some 453 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: great players at Bradley. Obviously historically anybody's been to Peoria 454 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: knows how big Bradley basketball is and what a great 455 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: basketball town it is. UM. Your your first year of coach, 456 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: what were what were your initial impressions of Anthony Parker? Uh, 457 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, I I hosted him on his recruiting visits, 458 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: so the year before, when I was a senior, he 459 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: came to campus, and uh, I found him to be 460 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: a very intelligent, quick witted, very talented individual. You know. 461 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: I had watched film on him and had kind of 462 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: show his skill set, but had no idea. I had 463 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: no idea that he would evolve and develop into the 464 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: player that he was at Bradley. But initially I thought 465 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: he would be a really good fit for us because 466 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: he was exactly what we needed at the time. We 467 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have a primary score at his position, and 468 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: so it was a great fit, you know. And he 469 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: was just below the high major um you know, qualification. 470 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: You know, he probably could have went to a high 471 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: major school but may not have been able to play 472 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: his freshman year in gaining all that experience and confidence 473 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: that he did that allowed him to be so good 474 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: for us. But I knew in our system, I just 475 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: had a feeling that he he would end up being 476 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: a previod player, you know. And not to mention his siblings, 477 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, like I remember this like it was yesterday. 478 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: It's like I remember can she was really really little, 479 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: you know, and then you all it's kind of evolved 480 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: and one of the best players ever in women's basketball. 481 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: So but great family, you know, great family. So he 482 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: was a good fit, Doug, is what I'm saying. That's 483 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: how I knew it it would possibly work. Then we 484 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: needed we need him for that position. I know the 485 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Valley ended up having um later on, you know when 486 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: when um, you know, you go to the late nineties 487 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: early two thousand's had maybe more overall success in the tournament, 488 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: but that was probably the golden era of the Valley, right, 489 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean you had several different coaches. Tubby obviously in 490 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: the late in the nineties had Tulsa and they were 491 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: playing fast. Um, you guys were winning twenty game Um. 492 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: You know, you know Missouri State when you had Spoon 493 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: there obviously was winning a ton of games. What what 494 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: what was the toughest place to play as a player 495 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: as a coach in those days of the Valley, Well, 496 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: I think you just mentioned them. So Tulsa, of because 497 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: they had such tradition, Um, was very difficult to play in. 498 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the fans were we're just amazingly into games 499 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: and very knowledgeable. UH. Missouri State, which was at the 500 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: time Southwest Missouri State. It was also tough because the 501 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: fans were right on top of you, right on top 502 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: of you. Um, so that was prettyn't even Wichita State, 503 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: I can't recall. The state was kind of in a 504 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: decline then. I can't remember, but but I know it 505 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: was still difficult to play there. Um Strugn Illinois was 506 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: difficult to play at. UH and even if you state, 507 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you think back on it, um, 508 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, with Kevin Stallings and what he was able 509 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: to do there, it was just it was just fascinating 510 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: and I think that's what made the valley feel competitive. 511 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: It was a great basketball league, had great fan support. 512 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: You you're on TV, and I think you had a 513 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: level of palette that for that plead was outstanding. It 514 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: was it was just completely outstanding, you know. So not 515 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: to mention you had Crayton and then Northern Iowa it 516 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: was pretty good as well. So it was it was 517 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: really good. It was it was very fun to play 518 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: in and the coach here, So why did you guys 519 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: lose momentum? Uh? You know, that's that's a really good question. 520 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: I think, Um, you know, I think when you for 521 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: a long period of time, when uh, you recruit a 522 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: certain area, and I think the talent level in in 523 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: in that area that we were recruiting kind of waned 524 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: a little bit. Um would you do downstate? Yeah, well 525 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: Bradley is Central Illinois, you know, Bradley Central LITLLINOI. And 526 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, we had some really good teams like Manuel, 527 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: Sure you've heard about Manuel. Manuel had the likes of 528 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, Frankie Williams and Sergio McClean and yeah, they 529 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: we exactly we were never going to get those players, 530 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, we were just We're just never going to 531 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: get those players. So so I think, you know, not 532 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: being able to recruit the same way, um and um, 533 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: you know just just maybe um other places just getting 534 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: better and and and and having more of a more 535 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: of a run and uh, you know, you know, things 536 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: just happened that way. So I think that's just kind 537 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: of how it all went down. Uh. When when you 538 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: have to leave, it's it's one thing to leave a 539 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: program where you coach for nine years, but you played 540 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: there for four years, thirteen years at one place. You know, what, 541 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: what do you remember about the emotions of leading Bradley. Uh, 542 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: it was frightening, you know. And I had I had. 543 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: I think by the time that I left Bradley, I 544 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: might have been married for three years. And my wife 545 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: is from Peoria and all of our families there. So 546 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: it was Friday being on the one end, but on 547 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: the horizon we could see great adventure on the other 548 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: and so um. And then I was leaving a man 549 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: who I had entrusted my life to basically for the 550 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: past thirty and fourteen years, you know, maybe twelve years, 551 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: because you know, I played for two years. But so 552 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: it was it was h yeah, it was. It was. 553 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: It was scary but but exciting at the same time. 554 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: So it's uh. And it worked out, no, no, all, 555 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: it worked out. So so Danny, Danny Granger was the 556 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: best young player in Bradley's program. You guys get fired. 557 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: What happened next? So then I went to New Mexico. Um, 558 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: actually I went to Oregon State because Richie McKay had 559 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: done such an incredible job and amazing job in Colorado State, 560 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: I think, and then he had went to Oregon State 561 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: and was there, and so he hired me at Oregon 562 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: State for two months, and then after that he got 563 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: interest from New Mexico, went to Mexico, and then we 564 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: went there. So then I spent the next eleven years 565 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: of my career in New Mexico. Okay, but we're just 566 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: skipping over here, don't. Let's not skip over all this 567 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: good stuff. Okay. So, so Richie, of course had been 568 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: on staff at Bradley when you were there, You guys 569 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: get fired. This is the way it works, as most 570 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: people who listen to this pod. No, it's all about 571 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: your basketball family. Uh. Ritchie reaches out to you and 572 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: he says, come come be on my staff at Oregon, 573 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: at at Oregon State. So did your you and your 574 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: wife find a house? Were only you out? There's stay Peoria. 575 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: What happened? No, we we went out. We went out, 576 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: and we did find a house, and we were at 577 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: the beginning stages of purchasing a house. Um, and I 578 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: think we were there maybe two days and everything was fine, 579 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: and I go back to pure you and then there's 580 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: the final four. The final four happened, and then it 581 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: became crazy because Richie was then approached by New Mexico 582 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: at the time, and I think it was Rudy Davals 583 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: Three Devils from the a d um and Richie called 584 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: me one night and said, hey, did you sign your 585 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: papers for the house And I said, uh no, but 586 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: I was about to. He says, we'll get better hold 587 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: off because I think we might be going to Albuquerque. 588 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay. And I think that was in 589 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: Lolls at the time, you know, trying to get some 590 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: trying to get some some some items from my house 591 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: in Peoria, and because I knew I was gonna move, 592 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: so I was gonna have to tidy up some things. 593 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: And I could remember looking at my wife and this 594 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: this overwhelming sense of stress, just kind of cloud of 595 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: her face, and I just told us, what, honey, it's 596 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: gonna be okay. So there we ended up going to 597 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: New Mexico, and you know, there were some other things 598 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: that took place, obviously because we had that situation with 599 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: Danny Grange. You know, that was that was something that 600 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: I can't you know, not talk about, but you know, 601 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned that Danny Greener was one of the best 602 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: players that we had ever had at Bradley, and then 603 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: all of a sudden I leave, and then the following 604 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: year he has this tremendous first half of the year, 605 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: and things just didn't work out for him, and then 606 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: he leaves, and then he leaves and ends up in 607 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: New Mexico. And so if anybody's falling the store, they 608 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: know that there was a lot of in c a 609 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: a confusion that took place with all that. But at 610 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: the very end, nothing really happened and everything was fine, 611 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: and Danny was able to transfer successfully to New Mexico 612 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: sit out of year and then going, I have a 613 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: very successful career there to Mexico. So okay, so so look, 614 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: this is this is a perfect opportunity. Okay, So let's 615 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: let's start with the beginning. First time you saw Danny 616 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: Granger was in Metory, Louisiana. Where was it? So it 617 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: was actually, ironically it was in Dallas, Texas. It was 618 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: in Dallas, Texas at a a U event. Uh. Mike Coonstead, 619 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: who is in a longtime talent scout, he runs Texas 620 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: Basketball Review. When he was just starting out in the business, 621 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: he would put on these showcases just like your father would, 622 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: and like Dinos and California would. He just would run 623 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: these showcases here in North Texas and he would get 624 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: the best local as teams as well as teams from 625 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: autumnsas Louisiana, Oklahoma, UM and and in some cases Kansas. 626 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: And So I had a buddy who lived in New 627 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: Orleans and he told me, Hey, there's a kid from 628 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: Grace King High School that you should go see and 629 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: his name is Michael Subbs. Okay, I said, Okay, I'll 630 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: go take him out because I trusted this this individual. 631 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, this is the good was 632 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: now the head coach at the University New Orleans. Okay, 633 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: it's it's Mark's lesson. And Mark told me go see 634 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: this kid named Michael sucks. Like Okay. So this is 635 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: a Friday afternoon. I get into town UM and I 636 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: hustle over to North Texas and I get my spot 637 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: and I'm watching Michael Subs. Michael sucks six ft six, 638 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: six ft seven guard, left handed, fairly athletic, really sport. 639 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: So I'm watching, but I'm not really focusing on him. 640 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: I'm focusing on this other individual. Because the other individual 641 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: was playing really really well. He happened to be six nine, 642 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: he was long. He was dribbling, passing and shooting and 643 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: locking shots. And I'm saying about said who was this kid. 644 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: So it turns out that Danny, who I was looking at, 645 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: not my thugs, was the person that I should have 646 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: been watching. Danny and Michael Subbs are cousins and they 647 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: played high school basketball together. So I just happened to 648 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: Dandy performed at such a high level, and I knew 649 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: back in the Missouri Valley there really wasn't a player 650 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 1: like Danny, and that's what intrigued me so much about him. 651 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, if a player like that gets into 652 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: the valley, it's almost like you know, catching lightning in 653 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: a bottle, because because he's so personal, he can play inside, 654 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: he can play out, he can be blocked shots, he 655 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: can guard the posts, he can guard the perimeter. And 656 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 1: on top of that, he was very, very very bright, 657 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: and he wanted engineering, and Bradley at the time was 658 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: was was non for engineering. So the recruiting process started 659 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: when I saw him him and did in Texas before 660 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: his junior year in high school. Um the rest turns out, 661 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: I mean, he ends up being a pretty good player. Okay, 662 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: So so you're at Oregon State for two months and 663 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: Richie quite two much like two weeks act sorry, and 664 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: and Richie comes in and says we're going to New 665 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: Mexico and like, okay, getty up, you go to New Mexico. Um, 666 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: when did it take? Take me through? What was the 667 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: process like then? Because now they get the transfer portal, 668 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, but this is I mean, like, look you 669 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: you kind of got a tiptoe. It's your all on boter. 670 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: On the other hand, it's also the place to fire you. 671 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: And look you look, you're trying to get a going 672 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: in New Mexico. If you can get a player that 673 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: you recruited, you go, you you go do it. How 674 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: did how did it really go down? Well? Well, and 675 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's you know, just nor Way shape 676 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: for him. Are you asking me to disparage the place 677 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: that I went to school? I know you're not asking 678 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: you that, So no, no, these are just the facts. Okay, 679 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: these are just the facts. Okay. Yes, at the time 680 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: I was in business. Okay, at the time I was 681 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: in business. Okay. So you're thinking, okay, brand new assistant coach, 682 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: you try to make us flash places is normal winning, 683 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: all right, But it didn't go down that way, Doug. 684 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: It didn't go down a way because it's at the 685 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: very end, remember at the very end, nothing really happened 686 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: with the n c A A and you and I 687 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: both know the n c A is very thorough in 688 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: what they do. Okay, really what it came about it 689 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: that was just a basically a strong enough relationship that 690 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: Danny felt comfortable. So that because there was no trans 691 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: reporter and all this other stuff that goes on the day, 692 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: Danny just left Bradley. That's just left Bradley, and I 693 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: know that maybe hard to believe, but he left badly 694 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: and he had no wh else to go, and so 695 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: he comes to New Mexico. And that's how it worked. 696 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: That's exactly how it worked. So that the story, how 697 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: come you didn't take Michael Suggs. What Michael Suggs's cousin. 698 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: He's like, hey, hey, well I can't. I can't go 699 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: to Mexico too. No. No, Michael Suft is on scholarship 700 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: at at at Bradley and he decided to stay because 701 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: that was in the best interests of him. So so 702 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: you get Danny Granger. And for people who don't, I mean, 703 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: I think I think people now because Richie is at 704 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: Liberty and I covered you guys down there, Like Richie 705 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: is that Richie, and of course he he reinvigorated his 706 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: career working under Tony Bennett. And like there are there 707 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: are lots of people who are I would, for a 708 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: lack of a better term, false prophets, right guys that 709 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: that that have a Bible in one hand, but the 710 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: other hand you have no idea like Richie appears to 711 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,439 Speaker 1: be the real deal? What is that like to work 712 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: for somebody who is is so full of faith? Um 713 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: that it's there is no question about how you do 714 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: it in terms of doing it the right way. Like look, 715 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: New Mexico had not always he's it's not always before 716 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: you guys got there have been accused of doing it 717 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: the right way. I think Fran did, but there's some 718 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: other stuff before that. But Richie is it? I mean, 719 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: Richie's the the real the real deal, isn't he in 720 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: terms of not just his faith? But no, he's authentic. No, 721 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: he's althentic. He's authentic. And because of that, you know, 722 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: he and I had a varent truster relationship and he 723 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: looked out for me and it was a really good situation. 724 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: It was a really good situation. So um, and he 725 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: has never waved on his faith. He has never waved 726 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: on his character nor his integrity, and so, um, it was, 727 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: it was, it was really really good. It was really 728 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: obviously you guys are great when you had Danny, what 729 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: why couldn't you Why couldn't Richie sustain it? There? Well, 730 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think as the story goes, he may 731 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: not have been to Mexico's first choice or second choice, 732 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: and so when you're not the first was that when 733 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: they wanted but didn't they want Bob Knight? Then when 734 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: they hired was that when they hired in they there 735 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 1: was the rumor they were going to get Bob Knight, 736 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: and then Bob Knight ended up going to Texas Tech. 737 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,439 Speaker 1: I think, right like that feels like that. I don't 738 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: know that I that I don't know. I think, Um, 739 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, it was somebody. It may have been 740 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: Bob Knight, or it may have been somebody else. But 741 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: but I think they they thought they were I think 742 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: they thought they were going to get Rob Evans, and 743 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: I think they had solidified plans to hire Rob Evans 744 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: and then the next day everybody in Aburquerque wakes up 745 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: and it's Richard McKay. So I think that's I think 746 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: that's kind of the way the story went. Um, what 747 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: so Richie. Richie gets fired, but you you didn't leave? Okay. So, 748 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: so for people who haven't heard this story, this part 749 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: of the story amazes me. So, Richie gets fired, Why 750 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't you go find another coaching job? Why did you stay? Well, 751 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: I made a choice. I made a conscious choice and 752 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: decision to try to create a stable environment for my 753 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: family and as opposed to changing my ambition as a coach. 754 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: And at the time, my wife and I felt like 755 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: Albuquerque it was a good place to raise our children. 756 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: You know, they were in school, she was happy, everything 757 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: was working. My parents were in Texas. I was a 758 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: little bit closer to home, and so we just decided, Okay, 759 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna try this work. And so I went to 760 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: the administration there and I said, I don't know if 761 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: there's anything that you can do, but if it could 762 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: be worked out, I'd like to stay. And they made 763 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,399 Speaker 1: it work. They made it work, and so I ended 764 00:43:53,480 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: up working on campus, teaching a class, working based and 765 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: fundraising UM and then doing some outrage for athletics, and 766 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: then also doing some things for enrollment services, like actually 767 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: going out throughout the new Mexico and recruiting, and so 768 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: I had a number of different jobs so that my 769 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: salary could work. And it was hard work, but it 770 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: was probably, honestly, before I got back into coaching, it 771 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 1: was probably one of the most fulfilling eighteen to twenty 772 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: four months of my life from a professional standpoint, and 773 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: my family and that span of time grew closer together. 774 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: My kids were able to enjoy stable environment, and it 775 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: was it was good, it was much needed. And so 776 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: that's what I did. I made. I made the choice 777 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: to be with my family and to make sure they 778 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: were stable as opposed to ripping and running all around 779 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: the country. Right. So how did you end up on 780 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: staff with Steve Alford? So Steve during his first year, Uh, 781 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: And I had I had known Steve because of his 782 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: Missouri State days in my Bradley days, we competed against 783 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: each other, so I was very familiar with him. As 784 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,760 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, the Deon Jackson player that you mentioned, 785 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: and you could do the research on this. In the 786 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: Missouri Valley Conference tournament one year, Deon Jackson basically droves 787 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: up a held Mary Prayer shot three port and it 788 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: goes in and it beats Steve Keene to go to 789 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: the championship game against Tulsa in the Missouri Valley Conference 790 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: championship and I can't I think that was I can't 791 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: remember what it was. But anyway, So I had known 792 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: Steve for quite some time and I had known his staff. 793 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: He had movement on his staff after his first year 794 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: director of operations opened up the Bible spot, and so 795 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: I had to talk him to Craig Neil just because 796 00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: I knew him. We had a relationship and and Chris 797 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: Walker was also on his staff along with Ryan remember 798 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: where I worked with now, But Chris Walker and I 799 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: grew up together. Chris Walker and I played the same 800 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 1: AUTH program in Houston, Texas growing up. Okay, And so 801 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: Chris and Craig, I think, started talking to Steve, and 802 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,359 Speaker 1: to this day I think that both of them great 803 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: men to have done that. So Steve calls me and says, 804 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: what do you want to do? And this is what 805 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,839 Speaker 1: do you mean? He says, do you want to come 806 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: join my staff because we certainly use you? And I'm like, 807 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,959 Speaker 1: you're a coach. And at the time, it made sense 808 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: for me to be the director of operations because again 809 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: I had small children, and I just wasn't ready to 810 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: get back on the road right away, but meaning to 811 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: the record of operations kept me close enough to the 812 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,399 Speaker 1: game where I thought I could still have the same 813 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 1: impact with the players, still enjoyed the game of basketball, 814 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: which I love, and grow my career in a different 815 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: directions and learn something new. And so it made sense 816 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: without having to travel as much because I didn't have 817 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: to recruit. So that's why I made sense to go 818 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: back with the and the relationship from there it just 819 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 1: grew tremendously. I mean, he and I fortuned a great 820 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,760 Speaker 1: powerful relationship to this day. I mean he's he's probably 821 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: one of my best friends. I mean, he sees the 822 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: good man. So I how did that? Because when I 823 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 1: switched from ESPN to CBS, my first couple of my 824 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 1: first year at CBS was your your guys last year 825 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: and it was the end of a run where it 826 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: was huh at Mexico. Yeah, it was the end of 827 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: a run where you guys. You guys won the league 828 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 1: four out of five years, which is virtually unheard of. 829 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: And for people who forget right, that's when Senu State 830 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: was close to their pretty you're talking right, I mean 831 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: they were, and you guys were tremendous. Um Nevada was 832 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: Nevada was up and down there. Nevada was down a 833 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: little bit. Then U and LV was very good. They 834 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: had pros. It was a really really good league. And 835 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 1: b y U before they left the league was was 836 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: very good. How let's see Utah as well. Who what 837 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: was What's the secret to Steve's success? Because I think 838 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: people people will look at at the u c L 839 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: a thing and even though he won thirty games one 840 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: year twenty eight another, you know, there'll be people who say, well, 841 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: Steve Alford didn't do what he's supposed like the hut 842 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: you But I mean, like, look what you guys did 843 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: in Mexico is unbelievable. How what brought by your estimation 844 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,400 Speaker 1: made that new Mexico run possible? Well, you know, I 845 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: think he was. I think Steve was really big on 846 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 1: on preparation and I think he was very good at 847 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 1: preparing our young men for the right things and games. 848 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: And our young men were never really shocked um at 849 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,720 Speaker 1: what took place in games, and they were able to perform, 850 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,399 Speaker 1: whether it was home or away, at such a high level. 851 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: And then you throw on top of that being very 852 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: fortunate to grab some high quality recruits that stayed and 853 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: we got older. Okay, stayed, he got older. And you 854 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,439 Speaker 1: may not remember this done, but but Ste's first year, 855 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: Um he won twenty something games. Okay, there was there 856 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: was four. There was talent there. We just needed a 857 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: different direction in leadership. That's how it works. Okay, So 858 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: the program had already been jumped started, and then he 859 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: adds some young players, plucked some transfers with the system 860 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: um that that was able to get up and down 861 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: and play and defend and had this lazing crowd behind you. 862 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: I think he created a lot of momentum. I think 863 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: it created a lot of momentum. Okay, thing you your 864 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: second year, you had something that was really interesting. You 865 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: had your best players from Albuquerque, right, which, like look, 866 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: New Mexico was already. If you haven't been to the 867 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 1: pit when they're good, I would I would challenge anybody 868 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: to find a better environment the place since it before 869 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 1: you've done is is perfect. Obviously you got altitude. But 870 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,320 Speaker 1: more than anything, if students are always nuts, right, and 871 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: every place has a guy like like snake, right, they 872 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: all have a play guy like snake. But the locals 873 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 1: there are crazy. And then when you had I was 874 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 1: a Chad was at Toepert and Daniel Ferris top Ferris 875 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: right to go with to go with Tony Dandridge like 876 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: you gotta come to local kids who are playing. That 877 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: place was Bunkers, Oh yeah, oh yeah. And those kids 878 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: were around four years right, and they had name recognition 879 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: and people knew of them and they were good players. 880 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,800 Speaker 1: They were good players. And uh we also had a 881 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: young man from il Pass, Texas named Romond Martinez who 882 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,800 Speaker 1: was pretty good and he was with that group, you know. 883 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: And then like I, like I mentioned before, we had 884 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,240 Speaker 1: a couple of transfers. He had Tarrick Kittens in that group, 885 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: and so and that was face hurts obviously, but but 886 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: again I just I just think there was such a 887 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: massive following and and Steve just hit it at the 888 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: right time and created a lot of momentum. So there's 889 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 1: a couple of guys I want to ask a couple 890 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,399 Speaker 1: of guys who want to ask you about in terms 891 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:31,919 Speaker 1: because because one of the things I think you guys 892 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: did a really good job of his player evaluation, right, 893 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 1: It's because like look, Tony Steles from Riverside he became 894 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 1: a hell of an NBA player, But he wasn't crazy. 895 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: Heavily recruited. You weren't fighting U c l A for him. 896 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: You know what, how did take me through the evaluation 897 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 1: process of somebody like a Tony Snell. So Joaquin Jones 898 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: uh who was a former coach of cal It was 899 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,840 Speaker 1: on our half at the time at New Mexico, and 900 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 1: he had connections because before that, I think he was 901 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,839 Speaker 1: the grassroots director at Nike. Now I made saying it wrong, 902 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: but I think he did something to that effect. So 903 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:18,239 Speaker 1: he had the knowledge about all yeah, yeah, he had 904 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge about players from in particular Los Angeles, 905 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: because that's where he's from. So Tony Snell um along 906 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,440 Speaker 1: with Hawaire Leonard, along with Jamal Franklin, they all grew 907 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: up together. They're all very good friends, and they were 908 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: all out in the Riverside area, I think the San 909 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 1: Bernardino area, California, which didn't get a lot of recognition 910 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,920 Speaker 1: then it just didn't, you know, it just didn't get 911 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,560 Speaker 1: a lot of recognition. And we were fortunate to be 912 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 1: able to bring him on campus. But again, Tony snell 913 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:55,160 Speaker 1: was long. We could we could see that offensively running 914 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,360 Speaker 1: him off screens and being able to rise up the 915 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,040 Speaker 1: defense and shoots in his field. For the game. In 916 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,160 Speaker 1: terms of what he could do off the dribble, could 917 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,160 Speaker 1: probably work in our system, could probably work. And when 918 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: Tony first got there, he was attempting to get his 919 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,880 Speaker 1: academics in order, so he didn't play the first semester, 920 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,480 Speaker 1: and Tony and I spent just about every day of 921 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: that first semester building our relationship. So now there was 922 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: a trust, you know, because he wasn't a real sociable kid, Doug. 923 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: It just wasn't. But again, I think that's why the 924 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,279 Speaker 1: Albuquerque environment was good for him, because people embraced him 925 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: for who he was, and at the time, the expectations 926 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,319 Speaker 1: for him weren't very high. So then he was able 927 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,360 Speaker 1: to grow into his role and it and it worked, 928 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: and we put him into place where he could be successful. 929 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: We had an offensive and defensive system that that highlighted 930 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,399 Speaker 1: what he can do, and he lifted weights, he became 931 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,239 Speaker 1: a better student and in the rest of history, and 932 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: that's how it worked, That's how I've worked. You had 933 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,600 Speaker 1: a kid named Cameron Barstow who, yes who He made 934 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,759 Speaker 1: the NBA, which is crazy. What was when he first 935 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 1: showed up on campus in New Mexico. What do you remember, Yeah, 936 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: I remember a kid that was very hungry. Okay, and 937 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,719 Speaker 1: Ryan Miller was on our staff at TCU, was the 938 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: lead on that. He had some connections over in Australia 939 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,120 Speaker 1: and I had a couple of myself. But when he 940 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,240 Speaker 1: loved on campus, I mean he was hungry for everything. 941 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,439 Speaker 1: He was hungry for food. He was hungry to get better, 942 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,800 Speaker 1: he was hungry to get stronger. I mean he was hungry. 943 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,719 Speaker 1: Dubbed every day. Every day after practice, he would take 944 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,560 Speaker 1: advantage of getting in the gym, lift weights and then 945 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,560 Speaker 1: going and get into the hydrotherapy pools. Okay, showing up 946 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 1: all time doing everything. He just went. He just he 947 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to be a player. He just wanted to 948 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,759 Speaker 1: be a player at a time when his physpitality um 949 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: was at a premium, Like he was the most physical 950 00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,040 Speaker 1: player we had and we were playing in a was 951 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,160 Speaker 1: that at the time. I don't call it being that physical, 952 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, it was it was a good up and 953 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,319 Speaker 1: down league at times, and guys could score and there 954 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: was some count there or the person that was really 955 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: physical and see that was your super power, and he 956 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,799 Speaker 1: worked at it, and he worked at it for four years, 957 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: and I think that's why he made the NBA. And 958 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,560 Speaker 1: he just was so hungry to be a great player. 959 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,440 Speaker 1: So Steve signs a ten year contract. You guys won 960 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,440 Speaker 1: the league. I called the game where you lost to Harvard, obviously, 961 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 1: and I thought, um, I think I think it was 962 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: Barstow who got in the foul trouble and they went 963 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: small on you, and uh, what was it, uh Laurent, 964 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,880 Speaker 1: Rivard or whatever? You end up hitting you hitting a 965 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,399 Speaker 1: bunch of threes on you guys. But he come back 966 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: from corner. Yeah, well, I mean like I thought, I 967 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: thought you should have gone I thought you should have 968 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: gone small, and and he kept one. He stayed, stayed 969 00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: one to stay with his strength and play with your bigs. 970 00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,200 Speaker 1: Um and day he signs a tenure contract. You're like, 971 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,680 Speaker 1: all right, you know I've been here through two staffs. 972 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,239 Speaker 1: I stayed even when I wasn't a coach. And then 973 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he's like, no, I'm gonna go 974 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,080 Speaker 1: to u c l A. What do you remember about 975 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 1: when Steve said I'm going to U c l A. Well, 976 00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:23,200 Speaker 1: let me see, it was about it was about ten hours. Okay, 977 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: it's about ten hours. So Steve called me at nine 978 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,920 Speaker 1: o'clock at night. It was on a Friday, and so 979 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,839 Speaker 1: ten hours prior to that, I had gotten a call 980 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 1: from a buddy of mine in Los Angeles who's an agent, 981 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,560 Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you know you need to get 982 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,719 Speaker 1: ready for this because I think I think you're moving 983 00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,799 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. Said, well, why why do people get 984 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles? Because he told me at the time that 985 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,200 Speaker 1: he thought Steve was gonna be the next coach at 986 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,160 Speaker 1: U c l A. I'm like, yeah, whatever, that's exactly 987 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,480 Speaker 1: what I say. Said whatever. So I hack up the 988 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,279 Speaker 1: phone and going about my day and then at nine 989 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,799 Speaker 1: o'clock at night, Steve calls me, and I think something's wrong, Doug, 990 00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,879 Speaker 1: something's wrong, because I would talk to Steve all the time, 991 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,279 Speaker 1: but typically at night he wouldn't call me because that 992 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,480 Speaker 1: was family time. It was family time. Fry collinsman. I 993 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,400 Speaker 1: think something's wrong. And then he just he just tells me. 994 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,280 Speaker 1: He says, look, we've had a tremendous run here at 995 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 1: at at New Mexico and it's been great for everybody. Okay, 996 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: but it's time to move on and I'm gonna go 997 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,200 Speaker 1: to U C l A. And at that particular juncture 998 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,600 Speaker 1: when he said that, the next words that were getting 999 00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 1: ready to come out of my mouth. We're gonna be 1000 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 1: we congratulations, coach, you deserve it. Hey, good luck. But 1001 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 1: I have a chance to do that because he said, 1002 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,280 Speaker 1: and you're coming with me, and I'm like, oh, okay, 1003 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,280 Speaker 1: and then he hung up the phone, and then we 1004 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 1: met the team the next day that that's exactly how 1005 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,960 Speaker 1: it happened. And I told my wife and then it's like, okay, 1006 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,920 Speaker 1: here we go. Okay, it's it's it's because because because 1007 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 1: you go from not being on his initial staff to 1008 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,120 Speaker 1: the d O b oh and obviously Noodles traigneil end 1009 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,000 Speaker 1: up staying behind and getting the job. But to be 1010 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: going you're the only guy he took with you. What 1011 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: that had to that had to mean, I mean, that 1012 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,520 Speaker 1: had to mean an incredible amount. Oh, it meant the 1013 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,040 Speaker 1: world to me, Doug. They meant the world to me 1014 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: that he would consider me for a job of that 1015 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,240 Speaker 1: magnitude to mean the world to me, it's both volumes 1016 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: about what he felt and what he thought about my 1017 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: ability and my character and the job that I could 1018 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: do so yeah, it was. It was quite. It was 1019 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,160 Speaker 1: quite an honor, and it made me feel really really 1020 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,440 Speaker 1: welcomed and a part of his family for real, you know. 1021 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,920 Speaker 1: So it was good. It was, it was It was 1022 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: very pleased and there was a privilege to do that, 1023 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: for him to ask me, you go to l A 1024 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 1: and Allison, you're in l A and this isn't this 1025 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,160 Speaker 1: isn't what you had been a part of ever in 1026 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: your basketball life, where every everywhere else you have to 1027 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,080 Speaker 1: hope that somebody else doesn't want the kid that you 1028 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,960 Speaker 1: are are going after. U c l A. You can 1029 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,000 Speaker 1: pick you, you know, any any handout that has the 1030 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: top ten kids a position. You picked from the top ten. 1031 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,520 Speaker 1: What is the difference like in trying to recruit at 1032 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,360 Speaker 1: a U c l A. UM. Also, but look now, 1033 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,760 Speaker 1: l you know my my brother when he was at 1034 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,120 Speaker 1: cow My montgomeryes like, you don't want to have too 1035 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:23,880 Speaker 1: many l A kids to l A kids? Are they 1036 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,760 Speaker 1: all the parents have an angle? They want a reality show? 1037 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,560 Speaker 1: Just this too much? What what was that like for 1038 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 1: a kid from Sugarland, Texas by way of Bradley, by 1039 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 1: way of UM. It was everything that you would expect 1040 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,840 Speaker 1: to be. Doug I mean it was. It was basketball 1041 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:52,480 Speaker 1: on a world stage. It's a historically rich, tradition oriented place, 1042 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,920 Speaker 1: uh expectations out of the roof and rightfully sold. And 1043 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,160 Speaker 1: so it was one thing to say the least uh 1044 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:07,360 Speaker 1: two walk the grounds of Westwood and of the campus 1045 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,560 Speaker 1: and to be in paul A Pavilion. It was quite 1046 01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: an experience. So much so, and I tell the story 1047 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,360 Speaker 1: to a lot of people every day that I was 1048 01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,040 Speaker 1: at work there, Before I would get out of my car, 1049 01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, I I'd have to say a prayer because 1050 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,720 Speaker 1: it's one of those jobs and demands the very best 1051 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,240 Speaker 1: every single day of what you have to offer. And 1052 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I've always been that way. I'm always going to give 1053 01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: no matter where I am. Um. But I think there 1054 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,400 Speaker 1: it was it became more crystallized because now everybody was 1055 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,840 Speaker 1: really watching. Everybody was watching. So but it was and 1056 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 1: it's not a butt I shouldn't say, but but it was. 1057 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,840 Speaker 1: It was. It was a very unique, uh and fascinating 1058 01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,680 Speaker 1: experience for me. I enjoyed it. It was good. I 1059 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,080 Speaker 1: gotta ask. I gotta ask, though, like you go from 1060 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,800 Speaker 1: you go from to Mexico and New Mexico. When you 1061 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: guys had it rolling you guys would roll into Thomas 1062 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 1: and Max Center at un l V and it would 1063 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,960 Speaker 1: it would be like the pit, right, you had incredible 1064 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,600 Speaker 1: fans support. Now now you're gonna use sailing where they 1065 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:16,160 Speaker 1: got more banners than anybody. And it's really hard. Even 1066 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,520 Speaker 1: though the building is brand new and it's u c 1067 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 1: l A. And it's Steve Alford, it's really hard until 1068 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,240 Speaker 1: you have Lonzo was really hard to draw people. What 1069 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,960 Speaker 1: was that like for especially for Steve, not just you, 1070 01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,200 Speaker 1: but for Steve, a guy who, like dude, he's in 1071 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 1: the enda schoolboy legend. He had sold out high school 1072 01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: games with more people than U c l A games. 1073 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,880 Speaker 1: What is that like as a staff to process? Well, 1074 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,600 Speaker 1: I think you just we We had to. We had 1075 01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,880 Speaker 1: to get accustomed to the fact that sometimes because of 1076 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,520 Speaker 1: the game times and because of the early traffic, you 1077 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,360 Speaker 1: may not have people at the beginning of games. But typically, 1078 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,960 Speaker 1: if I recall during the first year, especially when we 1079 01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,760 Speaker 1: kind of started winning, our crowds are pretty good toward 1080 01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 1: half time and on. Okay, but that wasn't the amazing 1081 01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,280 Speaker 1: part about it, though, Doug. That the crowd, that's one thing, okay, 1082 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,600 Speaker 1: but we we can't play for the crowd correct that 1083 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,360 Speaker 1: we have to play to win and have to coach 1084 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 1: our guys. What was the most amazing part to me 1085 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,800 Speaker 1: was sitting on the bench and looking on the floor 1086 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 1: and say, wow, you know there's like potential NBA players 1087 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: on this floor and I have a chance to coach 1088 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 1: these guys. That was the most fascinating part to me. 1089 01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: As the new Mexico guys, Oh, no question. And the 1090 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: reason I say that, and and and you'll probably agree 1091 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,200 Speaker 1: with me, guys that are coachable and guys that work 1092 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: together typically can win. Okay, the Tynes, we can win. 1093 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,600 Speaker 1: Ben Howland had put together a great recruiting class and 1094 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,520 Speaker 1: he had great players there. Okay, they just happened to 1095 01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,640 Speaker 1: buy into what she was talking about. All right. We 1096 01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,520 Speaker 1: won twenty games a year, so it was working. And 1097 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,600 Speaker 1: they were coachable. They really were coachable. And I think 1098 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,120 Speaker 1: at that stage when and maybe this is not the 1099 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,640 Speaker 1: case because I haven't been everywhere, so I'm not trying 1100 01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,840 Speaker 1: to generalize. I just know about the kids we had 1101 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,120 Speaker 1: there that first year. The kids we had there, they 1102 01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,880 Speaker 1: were open to everything and they listened. Okay, from Kyle 1103 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,520 Speaker 1: Anderson to Norman Powe we're twins to Jordan Adams to 1104 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: Zack Lavine, you know, Bryan Salford, Tony Parker. They they 1105 01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 1: listened and it worked. So it's going back to my 1106 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,240 Speaker 1: original thought. That was the amazing part to be in 1107 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 1: a program where you actually have a chance to coach 1108 01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,160 Speaker 1: that type of student athlete. It was amazing. It was, 1109 01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: it was, it was, It was truly amazing. Um. How come? Um? 1110 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I always felt like when Steve's teams at New Mexico 1111 01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,240 Speaker 1: were tough, as you point out Barstow rugged, you guys 1112 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,680 Speaker 1: are great and as goal defensively, it felt like, and 1113 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:08,040 Speaker 1: obviously this is after Alonzo and and Bryce graduated, um, 1114 01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 1: but it always felt like you struggled to get that 1115 01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,400 Speaker 1: same sort of physicality defensively. Was it the type of 1116 01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,240 Speaker 1: kid was that you didn't have a leader that was tough? 1117 01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,320 Speaker 1: Why did Because Steve's teams were tremendous defensively, and yet 1118 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,560 Speaker 1: when you got to when you got to Westwood, they 1119 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,440 Speaker 1: weren't the same. Why do you think that was? Well? 1120 01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:29,880 Speaker 1: I think it probably had a little bit to do 1121 01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,760 Speaker 1: with us being just young. I think that's what it 1122 01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,880 Speaker 1: ended up being. I mean, after Bryce and Lonzo and 1123 01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,280 Speaker 1: that group left and we became really really young. You know, 1124 01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,640 Speaker 1: we didn't have I don't know, we had very few juniors. 1125 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:45,160 Speaker 1: I don't you think we had any juniors on that 1126 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,120 Speaker 1: on that fifth year team. Um, I don't know. You 1127 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:49,480 Speaker 1: could probably look at it right in front of I 1128 01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,480 Speaker 1: can't remember, but I think that was part of it, 1129 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, just just having players that were young and 1130 01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,560 Speaker 1: talent without understanding what it took to win at a 1131 01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:03,920 Speaker 1: high level insistently. Okay, That's that's what I think was happening. 1132 01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:09,080 Speaker 1: And that's I think that's that's that ended up being 1133 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,320 Speaker 1: probably our demise, to be honest with you, so, not 1134 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,600 Speaker 1: getting old enough? What what what was it like to 1135 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:23,400 Speaker 1: coach a Lonzo Longso? Was he was you know when 1136 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,040 Speaker 1: he was like he was like you know when you 1137 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,600 Speaker 1: grew when you were growing up and if you're greg 1138 01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,160 Speaker 1: get together and mom and dad would get you a toy, 1139 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,320 Speaker 1: like a like a car, you just wind it up 1140 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,840 Speaker 1: and you just let it go. That's what it was like. 1141 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,360 Speaker 1: You just gave him a couple of instructions and because 1142 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,720 Speaker 1: of his feel for the game, you never really worried 1143 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:44,920 Speaker 1: about him making the right play, whether it was on 1144 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,880 Speaker 1: offense or defense. And if he happened to make a mistake, 1145 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,080 Speaker 1: you knew that he was probably gonna do sixteen things 1146 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,200 Speaker 1: better the next time. So it was, it was, it 1147 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:59,120 Speaker 1: was coaching at a level that really wasn't stressful when 1148 01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,520 Speaker 1: he was on the floor. I mean, he he was 1149 01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,960 Speaker 1: able to interpret to a team what Steve wanted and 1150 01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,000 Speaker 1: he was able to convey that in his own way 1151 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,800 Speaker 1: to our to his teammates, and it just worked. I mean, 1152 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,600 Speaker 1: it was, it was. It worked. He knew exactly what 1153 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: play to make and when to make it, and he 1154 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,560 Speaker 1: had been playing on such a high level up until 1155 01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,880 Speaker 1: that point, and he was playing with all these expectations 1156 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,120 Speaker 1: because I mean, as you know, probably since the time 1157 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,520 Speaker 1: was eight and eight eighth grade, ninth grade, the spotlight 1158 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,920 Speaker 1: was on him and his family so much that he 1159 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,960 Speaker 1: just embraced it. And so when he got to U C. 1160 01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,320 Speaker 1: L A. It was just the next step. It just 1161 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,840 Speaker 1: was the next step. And so coaching him that was 1162 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,920 Speaker 1: a treat. That was that was that was really a 1163 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,720 Speaker 1: treat to coach him. He was he was, he was 1164 01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,800 Speaker 1: phenomenal for us. How did how did how what was 1165 01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,920 Speaker 1: it like to to coach Alonzo with LaVar? Like did 1166 01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,000 Speaker 1: you guys when the bars said you guys are gonna 1167 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,360 Speaker 1: win national championship. When he complained about other guys on 1168 01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,560 Speaker 1: the team, you know, specifically about Bryce and white kids 1169 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:06,280 Speaker 1: playing defense, what was what? What was that like? Yeah? Yeah, 1170 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:10,720 Speaker 1: I think I think Vore in particular, and I know 1171 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,640 Speaker 1: him and I love him, and I know him and 1172 01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,200 Speaker 1: love him simply because in the recruiting process we had 1173 01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,720 Speaker 1: spent so much time together, okay, and I knew exactly 1174 01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,640 Speaker 1: what he was trying to do. Okay, he was promoting, 1175 01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,680 Speaker 1: which is perfectly fine. The next day when he would 1176 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:27,800 Speaker 1: make those comments, he would call me and he would 1177 01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 1: just laugh about it, and we would just shrug it 1178 01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,240 Speaker 1: all and we would just try to maintain focus with 1179 01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,200 Speaker 1: our team. That sort of stuff didn't start happening until 1180 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,600 Speaker 1: later in long the freshman year, and at that time 1181 01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,040 Speaker 1: we couldn't really focus on that does We had to 1182 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,840 Speaker 1: focus on our team, Okay. So that's how we had 1183 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,960 Speaker 1: to manage it. That That's how we had to manage it. 1184 01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,520 Speaker 1: That's what happened. So if you could make one different 1185 01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:57,120 Speaker 1: decision in terms of guys or things, that is there 1186 01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:01,080 Speaker 1: anything you felt like you could have done personal as Steve, 1187 01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,160 Speaker 1: You're Steve, Steve Alford's right hand guy. Is there something 1188 01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:10,160 Speaker 1: you could have done to save it? Well, you know 1189 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,160 Speaker 1: you have to have heavy shoulders to coach there, right, 1190 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:18,240 Speaker 1: You know, I I think about it all the time. 1191 01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:20,439 Speaker 1: I do. I think about it all the time. And 1192 01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,160 Speaker 1: maybe being stronger and communicated to him what we needed 1193 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,200 Speaker 1: to do, you know, in the areas the game that 1194 01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,639 Speaker 1: we needed to focus on, you know, maybe getting older, 1195 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:35,920 Speaker 1: maybe becoming more physical. You know, that's and I probably 1196 01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,599 Speaker 1: should have stepped up and talk about those things more 1197 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,519 Speaker 1: with him, But that would probably be it. That would 1198 01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,760 Speaker 1: probably be it. So now you work now, you work 1199 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,640 Speaker 1: for Jamie Dixon, a guy who he's had super physical teams, right, 1200 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,479 Speaker 1: he's coaching now at his own money, much like you 1201 01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,120 Speaker 1: coach it. What is Jamie like in comparison to the 1202 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:59,200 Speaker 1: other men you've worked for? Um, you know, they they're 1203 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,760 Speaker 1: they're all they're all very very bright individuals. Okay, you 1204 01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,719 Speaker 1: don't get to the level of head coach and stay 1205 01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,679 Speaker 1: there for a long time without having a firm grip 1206 01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:13,879 Speaker 1: on how to coach the game and how to recruit 1207 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,439 Speaker 1: it and how to relate to people. You just can't. 1208 01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,040 Speaker 1: And so James is different in that area. There's no 1209 01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:24,160 Speaker 1: different in that area. UM. I think in practice, um, 1210 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,200 Speaker 1: he is a fierce competitor, and I think he tries 1211 01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:31,160 Speaker 1: to put our young men in adverse situations so that 1212 01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:35,679 Speaker 1: when game time comes, nothing is ever a surprise, nothing 1213 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,560 Speaker 1: is ever surprised. And I've noticed that about him. And 1214 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,080 Speaker 1: the thing that I probably appreciate about him the most 1215 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,560 Speaker 1: is he never lets you feel sorry for yourself, and 1216 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:52,280 Speaker 1: he never allows you to make excuses. He never allows 1217 01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:57,720 Speaker 1: you the opportunity to feel like you can be complacent. 1218 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,360 Speaker 1: He just keeps moving it forward it and that to 1219 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,960 Speaker 1: me has been an area in my life in particular, 1220 01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,879 Speaker 1: where I've needed to improve, you know, dealing what's success? 1221 01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,640 Speaker 1: You know, how do you deal with that? Do you 1222 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,080 Speaker 1: lighten up or stop working or do you keep pushing 1223 01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,519 Speaker 1: and being with Jamie for the past set the months. 1224 01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's been remarkable in that area. Remarkable. 1225 01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:24,200 Speaker 1: What do you think you have to do to get 1226 01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:30,439 Speaker 1: that head coaching job? Well, probably see you to win 1227 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:36,200 Speaker 1: and continue to recruit well and and just continue to pray. 1228 01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,439 Speaker 1: Do It's really out of my control, It's out of 1229 01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:42,000 Speaker 1: anybody's control, you know. It's sometimes it's a little bit 1230 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:44,840 Speaker 1: of luck here it's who you know there and where 1231 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,080 Speaker 1: your positions you know. And I don't worry about it 1232 01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,120 Speaker 1: as much anymore. I just I just go out and 1233 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:50,920 Speaker 1: try to do the very best job that I can do. 1234 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,800 Speaker 1: I try to represent myself and my family and the 1235 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,720 Speaker 1: institution and the staff that I'm working with the best 1236 01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:58,920 Speaker 1: of my ability. That's what I try to do. And 1237 01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,640 Speaker 1: if some want to recognize that and they see that 1238 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,800 Speaker 1: my skill sets can help them be their head coach, 1239 01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:08,800 Speaker 1: then you know what, I probably will get an opportunity. 1240 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:14,360 Speaker 1: If not, then that's okay too. That's okay, took Let 1241 01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 1: me go through, let me go through these men that 1242 01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,519 Speaker 1: you work for, Jim Mulinary. His greatest strength is what 1243 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:28,880 Speaker 1: uh's personal integrity. It's personal integrity. But but yeah, but 1244 01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,000 Speaker 1: if I if I go but okay, as a coach, 1245 01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and like, do you think, because I mean, then I 1246 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,680 Speaker 1: go Richie McGain, you probably say the exact same thing 1247 01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,800 Speaker 1: as a kid. I would. I would say, I would 1248 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,640 Speaker 1: say Richie's compassion. I would say Richie's compassion. But if 1249 01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,840 Speaker 1: you're talking about like a coaching coaches, I would say 1250 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,639 Speaker 1: I would say his defensive prowess. I think he has 1251 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:55,040 Speaker 1: a genius like makeup when it comes to defense. Okay, Um, 1252 01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,719 Speaker 1: does he teach? Does he teach? What was he because 1253 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,519 Speaker 1: now everybody's loading up in the ball it's kind of 1254 01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:06,519 Speaker 1: pack line? Did he force middle? We were more pack 1255 01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,760 Speaker 1: line defense. There were more pack line defense. That's where 1256 01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,200 Speaker 1: we were, if I recall correctly. Okay, Richie, what was 1257 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,760 Speaker 1: Richie's greatest strength as a coach? Well, I think I 1258 01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,000 Speaker 1: think Richie was the opposite. I think Richie. I think 1259 01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:24,880 Speaker 1: Richie has a phenomenal offensive mind. Steve Alford, I think 1260 01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:31,160 Speaker 1: Steve Alford understands how to teach motion at a high, 1261 01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:39,040 Speaker 1: high level. Yeah, yeah, Steve Alford. Yes, I mean, look, 1262 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,519 Speaker 1: you guys really screened well. You moved well as a 1263 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: beaut beautiful thing. Um. But the screening part to me 1264 01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,240 Speaker 1: was the part that so few teams. You know, obviously 1265 01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,599 Speaker 1: Virginia wins a national championship and they screened the hell 1266 01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,559 Speaker 1: out of you. But I felt like, you guys might 1267 01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,120 Speaker 1: have been in New Mexico, you might have been the 1268 01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,680 Speaker 1: best screening team in the country. That was part of 1269 01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:02,680 Speaker 1: that physicality news he was to tell you, and rightly so. 1270 01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean, he played for probably arguably one of the 1271 01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:09,880 Speaker 1: best pure coaches in the game. You know, so so 1272 01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,840 Speaker 1: all that was you know, it's white. It could because 1273 01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,960 Speaker 1: Chris Bear coached under Bob Night, and Chris Beard runs 1274 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:22,559 Speaker 1: incredible motions, you know, so unbelievable. Um, all right, Jamie Dixon. 1275 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,920 Speaker 1: Something something that surprised you about Jamie Dixon is a 1276 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,240 Speaker 1: coach that you didn't know before you coached under him. 1277 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:33,520 Speaker 1: I think he understands great spacing on offense. Great spacing. 1278 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,280 Speaker 1: And I didn't know that because I just kind of 1279 01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:39,640 Speaker 1: assumed that when I when I with all of his 1280 01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,439 Speaker 1: teams that pit and I I watched, but I watched 1281 01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,439 Speaker 1: afar and I thought he was extremely successful. But you 1282 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,240 Speaker 1: always we hear Jamie Dixon's teams are tough, you know, 1283 01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,880 Speaker 1: their defensive orient and all this other stuff. But when 1284 01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,200 Speaker 1: I got into practice and I started to understand what 1285 01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:02,720 Speaker 1: he was teaching on offense, I was amazed. I mean, 1286 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:07,920 Speaker 1: he does a phenomenal job and does spaces and and 1287 01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:12,920 Speaker 1: you know that's that and also to helping our players 1288 01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,519 Speaker 1: understand where the defense might be. And then you will 1289 01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,280 Speaker 1: make a move, you know, whether it's drawing kick or 1290 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,400 Speaker 1: are driving the second or third side, or or you 1291 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,880 Speaker 1: swing the ball. Here comes the ball screen and then 1292 01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 1: you hit the throwback out the behind. Guy. It's been 1293 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,240 Speaker 1: amazing to be a part of that. Amazing to be 1294 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:37,479 Speaker 1: a part of that. UM coach you admire from are 1295 01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,080 Speaker 1: you talking about from a far Give me one coach 1296 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,360 Speaker 1: you admire from far? Well, I don't know if he's 1297 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,800 Speaker 1: coaching now. Uh does it have to be a pro 1298 01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:50,520 Speaker 1: culture or college? Can be anybody you want, Bernie Bickerstaff, 1299 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:57,080 Speaker 1: Why is that so? Growing up in Houston, Texas, I 1300 01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:59,679 Speaker 1: was a ball boy for the Houston Rockets for nine years. 1301 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,160 Speaker 1: So I was a ball boy during the time of 1302 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,800 Speaker 1: from the beginning of Rudy, Tom Jonovich, Moses Malone all 1303 01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,680 Speaker 1: the way to Ralph and the Key. Okay, so I 1304 01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 1: was a ballboy doing that span of time. He was 1305 01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:16,719 Speaker 1: a coach with the Seattle Super Songs, and the way 1306 01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:22,600 Speaker 1: that he handled Xavier McDaniel and Dale Ellis was phenomenal 1307 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,439 Speaker 1: because at the time, Doug, when I was a ball boy, 1308 01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,840 Speaker 1: I was working behind the visiting bench. I did that 1309 01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,679 Speaker 1: for eight years, even when I was like as early 1310 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:31,559 Speaker 1: as third and fourth grade, I was behind the bench, 1311 01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:36,560 Speaker 1: and so I probably didn't pay as much attention to 1312 01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:39,600 Speaker 1: the strategy of coaching and how he did it, but 1313 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:43,000 Speaker 1: certainly how he challenged his players and how they respected him. 1314 01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,360 Speaker 1: And for that, he's always been one of the most 1315 01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:53,040 Speaker 1: admired coaches in my entire life because Xavier McDaniel was 1316 01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,240 Speaker 1: a heck of a player. You know that, and wasn't 1317 01:15:56,240 --> 01:16:01,519 Speaker 1: always easy to do it. So your your personal he 1318 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,639 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be your best player, your personal favorite 1319 01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:15,400 Speaker 1: player you've ever coached, who probably can't. UM, probably can't 1320 01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,680 Speaker 1: quantify that in just one but I won't tell you this. 1321 01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:25,000 Speaker 1: I'll say that Aaron Holiday, Aaron Holliday is a very 1322 01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:34,960 Speaker 1: good player, Doug, very good player, Aaron Holiday. Um, all right, well, listen, 1323 01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,000 Speaker 1: it's been amazing to catch up with you. I it 1324 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,160 Speaker 1: makes me excited about watching TC you play, just because 1325 01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,040 Speaker 1: I know you and I got to know each other some. 1326 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,040 Speaker 1: I know you're getting to know my brother some. And 1327 01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,080 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, I'm I'm all in on 1328 01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:51,280 Speaker 1: where your next stop is. UM. This this has been remarkable, 1329 01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:53,920 Speaker 1: and I congratulation. It's one of those things's one of 1330 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,200 Speaker 1: those things. I think you have it, but I don't 1331 01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:58,400 Speaker 1: know if it's like I talked to my brother about 1332 01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,559 Speaker 1: this all the time and and honestly, J Billis taught 1333 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,320 Speaker 1: me this. J Billis said, how old are you? And 1334 01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:04,960 Speaker 1: I said, at the time, I think I was like forty. 1335 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,640 Speaker 1: And he's like, look, you've basically got to you about like, 1336 01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, like fifty once fifty five on TV, they're 1337 01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of they're sixty, they're kind of done with you. 1338 01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,320 Speaker 1: Like and if you can work, you know, like what 1339 01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,400 Speaker 1: we call work. For your entire life covering basketball or 1340 01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,320 Speaker 1: covering sports, you're not really working. And so yeah, do 1341 01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,439 Speaker 1: you want to? Like you said, your your perspective is 1342 01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,960 Speaker 1: amazing that if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, right, 1343 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:29,120 Speaker 1: if I don't take the next step in my career. 1344 01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:33,000 Speaker 1: But to be able to provide for your family while 1345 01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:37,320 Speaker 1: loving sports, specifically basketball like we do, it's pretty amazing, right, 1346 01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,200 Speaker 1: And and there are conversations like this in moments where 1347 01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,040 Speaker 1: you like, I should have the kind of perspective that 1348 01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:47,880 Speaker 1: you have. M hmm, thank you. Yeah, you know, sport 1349 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:51,840 Speaker 1: is um it's a privilege. I mean it's you know, 1350 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:53,719 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, no matter how stressful 1351 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:55,800 Speaker 1: we gets, no matter what type of problems you have. 1352 01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,280 Speaker 1: I've always reflected back on the fact that it's basketball, man, 1353 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:04,640 Speaker 1: when it's basketb Yeah, but how did how does that? 1354 01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,840 Speaker 1: How does that? How does that work at home? Right? 1355 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,240 Speaker 1: You're you're an incredible family man. And and look, I 1356 01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,120 Speaker 1: look at U c l A. As much as there 1357 01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:15,040 Speaker 1: was a lot discussed about your guy's future, it's not 1358 01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,760 Speaker 1: sports radio is not as big. It's not like a 1359 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,439 Speaker 1: small town where that's all anybody talks about. But I'm 1360 01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:22,559 Speaker 1: sure it affects you at like, how did you handle 1361 01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: that as a husband, as a father, when people are 1362 01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:31,200 Speaker 1: talking about your job status. Well, I learned a long 1363 01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:40,479 Speaker 1: time ago to compartmentalize my life, Doug. So why came 1364 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,280 Speaker 1: home and I drove on National Boulevard and I went 1365 01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:46,360 Speaker 1: under the four or five and was headed west to 1366 01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:52,839 Speaker 1: my house. All of my job stress went away with me. Period. 1367 01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:54,640 Speaker 1: That's that's That's what it was at U c l A. 1368 01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,320 Speaker 1: When I got up in the morning and got back 1369 01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,840 Speaker 1: on National to get over to Pico, when I drove 1370 01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:05,080 Speaker 1: underneath the four or five again, and sometimes my job 1371 01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:09,640 Speaker 1: was still over to my house, But most times I 1372 01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,840 Speaker 1: tried not to let it bother any aspect of my 1373 01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:18,559 Speaker 1: family life because I knew that just as my job 1374 01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:22,360 Speaker 1: needed the very best is Dwayne Broussard. My family also 1375 01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:27,160 Speaker 1: needed the very best, and so that was how I met. 1376 01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,880 Speaker 1: I've managed it that way every since I started coaching, 1377 01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:35,080 Speaker 1: every since I started coaching. And much like yourself, you 1378 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,960 Speaker 1: grew up in a basketball family. Be about basketball you're life. Remember, 1379 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,240 Speaker 1: So when I was in the third grade, I was 1380 01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,200 Speaker 1: in the NBA. I was a ball boy from the Rocket. 1381 01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:45,080 Speaker 1: So I saw all of that best all all of 1382 01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,000 Speaker 1: my life too, and so you just kind of have 1383 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:51,160 Speaker 1: to learn those things. And you know, I'm not saying 1384 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,160 Speaker 1: everybody doesn't the way I do. I'm not and I'm 1385 01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:56,280 Speaker 1: not suggesting that. But for me, I learned how to 1386 01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:00,640 Speaker 1: compartment alize. That's what I learned. Yeah, so it's a 1387 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:02,960 Speaker 1: great it's a great trait to have. Dwayne. Have a 1388 01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:04,800 Speaker 1: great night. Thanks so much for joining us in the 1389 01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,920 Speaker 1: Ellball Podcast and looking forward to seeing horn frogs. Okay, 1390 01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,240 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you for the opportunity man, Okay, perfect, Wayne, 1391 01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Thanks again. Be sure to catch the live edition of 1392 01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,120 Speaker 1: The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter 1393 01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:22,599 Speaker 1: noon Pacific. All my thanks to Dwayne Brussor. That was yeah, 1394 01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,400 Speaker 1: I mean, just his life so far has been interesting. 1395 01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,000 Speaker 1: Can't wait to see what he does does next. Um 1396 01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:31,719 Speaker 1: obviously got a huge weekend in college hoop. These conferences 1397 01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,800 Speaker 1: are I mean, like, look, I was talking with a 1398 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,680 Speaker 1: w CC coach right and obviously Gonzaga he's gonna run 1399 01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:39,960 Speaker 1: rough shot over the bottom of that league. But the 1400 01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:42,680 Speaker 1: rest of the teams, the top st Mary's b y 1401 01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:48,080 Speaker 1: U through Pacific, San Francisco, Santa Clara, who San Francisco 1402 01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:52,240 Speaker 1: just beat. Like, there's obviously three or so legit n 1403 01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:56,640 Speaker 1: c A tournament teams and and and maybe four maybe four. Um, 1404 01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, Oregon with the big win over Arizona, UH 1405 01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,240 Speaker 1: paid Pitcher continues to make big shots and big plays, 1406 01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,639 Speaker 1: and I think, you know Dan Altman is his team's 1407 01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,600 Speaker 1: almost always get better. Arizona does appear to be an 1408 01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:10,400 Speaker 1: n c A tournament team. Arizona stay with a big 1409 01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,920 Speaker 1: win over over Oregon State. We'll see what they do 1410 01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: against Oregon this upcoming weekend. Washington's fallen on a little 1411 01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,240 Speaker 1: bit of hard times with you know, losing your point 1412 01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:23,960 Speaker 1: guard two academics, kind of a weird time year. Obviously, 1413 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:27,120 Speaker 1: like the quarter system UH could allow them to get 1414 01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:31,160 Speaker 1: him back, but you know, you know, I don't want 1415 01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,639 Speaker 1: to say, like with Stanford coming from behind and beating them, 1416 01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:36,080 Speaker 1: it does feel like Stanford can be an n c 1417 01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:38,000 Speaker 1: A term team, Washington can be an n c A 1418 01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:44,320 Speaker 1: tournament team, and then you go with Arizona USC, so 1419 01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:47,320 Speaker 1: that lead is not not terrible. The demise of West 1420 01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,360 Speaker 1: Coast hoops has been kind of greatly exaggerated. Obviously, the 1421 01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,720 Speaker 1: Mountain Mountain West at San Diego State's league to win 1422 01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,960 Speaker 1: or to lose, and New Mexico, who all see in 1423 01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:01,360 Speaker 1: person this weekend. You know, you have suspensions the two starters, 1424 01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:06,080 Speaker 1: JJ Caldwell and Carlton Bragg, those guys and Bragg being back, 1425 01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,719 Speaker 1: but maybe the damage is done. So the Mountain West 1426 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,800 Speaker 1: I thought was at least a two bid league, you 1427 01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,280 Speaker 1: know if if New Mexico, maybe three of New Mexico. 1428 01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:17,720 Speaker 1: But Utah State just has not played well, losing the 1429 01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,280 Speaker 1: UNLV then obviously at a home to San Diego State, 1430 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,599 Speaker 1: adding NEMA Kata has not made them better. I think ultimately, 1431 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,640 Speaker 1: obviously it will anyway, fired up for this weekend in 1432 01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:31,200 Speaker 1: college hoop. I'll give you my thoughts maybe next week. 1433 01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:33,360 Speaker 1: On the Kevin Durant thing. Just real quick on the 1434 01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:38,400 Speaker 1: Kevin Durant versus Kendrick Perkins steel is this. I don't 1435 01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:42,120 Speaker 1: think k D needed to go there, Like Kevin Durant can, 1436 01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,960 Speaker 1: in fact be a punching bag. But like, what are 1437 01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:50,080 Speaker 1: we doing here where we're allowing a former teammate and 1438 01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:54,720 Speaker 1: I like Kendrick Perkins, I don't dislike him. Allow if 1439 01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,639 Speaker 1: somebody says you made the weakest move in the history 1440 01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:01,160 Speaker 1: of the n b A switching from Oklahoma City to 1441 01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,759 Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors, winning two championships in three years, 1442 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:10,040 Speaker 1: two finals m VPS versus Lebron James, all right, Look, 1443 01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,680 Speaker 1: you're entitled to your opinion, but you gotta take some 1444 01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,080 Speaker 1: pushback there, Like that would be like me, you know, 1445 01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:18,600 Speaker 1: saying somebody made the weakest move in the history of 1446 01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:21,240 Speaker 1: college basketball, you know, switching from one school to another 1447 01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,960 Speaker 1: as a coach and somebody coming after me about my 1448 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,639 Speaker 1: free throw shooting or where my shorts backwards? Like, yeah, 1449 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,920 Speaker 1: that that happens. It's not that big a deal. People 1450 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,880 Speaker 1: get super mad, Like if you're gonna talk talk shit, 1451 01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:34,840 Speaker 1: then you got to know the other guy is gonna talk. 1452 01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:36,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't talking ship doesn't work to where like I 1453 01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,080 Speaker 1: talk shit and you go like that's a good one. 1454 01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:43,439 Speaker 1: Good burn, dude. So I think a little bit of 1455 01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,599 Speaker 1: this is two guys talking ship and Twitter getting caught 1456 01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,280 Speaker 1: in the middle of it. I think a little bit 1457 01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,880 Speaker 1: of it is Kendre Perkins has now entered I'm on 1458 01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:55,240 Speaker 1: Team Lebron, not team k D, and it's Kevin ramping 1459 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,400 Speaker 1: overly sensitive. But I'm not sure. I don't I would 1460 01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,000 Speaker 1: disagree with with Kevin d being sensitive, you know, like 1461 01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,080 Speaker 1: he was the best player on Earth for the last 1462 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,439 Speaker 1: three years. Now he's hurt. People seem to have forgotten, 1463 01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:07,400 Speaker 1: and all theirs they won't forget is that he left 1464 01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:09,800 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City, who somehow is up three to one on 1465 01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:14,599 Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors. I would disagree with um Agent 1466 01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:19,720 Speaker 1: zero on Oklahoma City regressing they added Victor Oladipo. It 1467 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,120 Speaker 1: would have been Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Victor Oladipo, and 1468 01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:24,960 Speaker 1: while they may not have had the shooting, I think 1469 01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:26,880 Speaker 1: they would have been better. All right. More on that 1470 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:30,479 Speaker 1: upcoming in future episodes. In the meantime, thanks for listening 1471 01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:32,840 Speaker 1: both to The Gottlip Show Daily three to six Eastern 1472 01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:36,720 Speaker 1: twelve three Pacific, and of course to this podcast, which 1473 01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:37,280 Speaker 1: is all ball,