Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Becher Happy Hour. I'm Joe
Speaker 1: and we are here today with Sean Sean. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Betcher Happy Hour.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, guys excited to be here of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you quite entertaining this season. I have to say,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a Sean fan. I appreciate people that are
Speaker 1: willing to just be themselves and be on TV and
Speaker 1: regardless good or bad, you're you're putting yourself out there.
Speaker 1: So I find it very entertaining.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I was trying to be as authentic as
Speaker 2: I possibly. I'm pretty much the same like on camera
Speaker 2: and off, so like I didn't think I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people go through it and they're like everyone
Speaker 2: wants to be on TV. No one necessarily wants to
Speaker 2: make a TV show, if that kind of makes sense,
Speaker 2: where everyone's so focused on like, oh, how's it gonna look?
Speaker 2: Is vaccination's gonna like me or not? Like you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just in a situation where it's like there's half
Speaker 2: a million dollars on the line, I'm gonna do exactly
Speaker 2: what I thinks, you know, the right move, or like
Speaker 2: what just puts me in the best position. But I
Speaker 2: appreciate Joe that you're fan. That makes maybe one in
Speaker 2: the entire world. So we'll see.
Speaker 1: All right, So you you go on Paradise the last
Speaker 1: the last season. Correct, you were on the last season
Speaker 1: of Paradise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, season nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What made you want to come back?
Speaker 2: The ac new new location. I think it was it
Speaker 2: was a kind of an easy choice, you know. I
Speaker 2: knew if I like watched it back, I have fomo
Speaker 2: not going to experience something new, like a brand new resort,
Speaker 2: a new production team, new concept. I guess from a
Speaker 2: show standpoint, and I always have fun when I'm filming.
Speaker 2: It's so unique, it's so different than what my day
Speaker 2: to day is, So it's kind of an easy choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So you get there. Did
Speaker 1: you expect not to be original cast?
Speaker 2: No? I kind of thought I would be original cast,
Speaker 2: not just from like like what was going on. It
Speaker 2: was more like the day I flew out there, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'm probably going on first because it's
Speaker 2: the beginning of like when we started filming, so I
Speaker 2: kind of expected it. I was really kind of disappointed
Speaker 2: when I was an original cast, but in the end,
Speaker 2: I think it worked out better for me. In terms
Speaker 2: of like going at the right point. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: expected to be og cast originally.
Speaker 3: So you get down there, what's that first day?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: First day was really tough. So when I got down
Speaker 2: to the beach, I was kind of like training myself
Speaker 2: to interact with humans. Yet like I felt so uncomfortable
Speaker 2: like talking to people. I had no idea the dynamics
Speaker 2: going into it. I did really feel uncomfortable. It took
Speaker 2: me about a couple hours, maybe two to three, where
Speaker 2: I then I finally kind of settled down a little
Speaker 2: bit and it was more myself. But it was definitely
Speaker 2: nerve wracking going in and this time around, Like normally
Speaker 2: you just come in with a date card and you're
Speaker 2: just going to pull people. This time you come in
Speaker 2: get a chance to meet everyone before you take someone
Speaker 2: on a date. So I didn't really know what to
Speaker 2: say or do. When I got there, I was like, oh, hi, guys,
Speaker 2: some Sean. I don't know if you know me or not,
Speaker 2: but great to meet you. And then you know, one
Speaker 2: thing led to another, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Who did you take on a date? Jill? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jill?
Speaker 1: And why why Jill?
Speaker 2: Jill's fun? Like when I got there, everyone's talking about
Speaker 2: like coming in late. I was the last guy to
Speaker 2: arrive on Paradise. I think, yeah, pretty much. When I
Speaker 2: got there was really the only people open were Jill
Speaker 2: and like somewhat Alex at that point. And I remember
Speaker 2: the first night I got there, I was hanging out
Speaker 2: with Jill and we just had like a fun banter
Speaker 2: and the date was like an ATV date where you're
Speaker 2: going through the rivers of Costa Rica. You kind of
Speaker 2: have have to have a certain, you know, care free
Speaker 2: attitude to have fun on a date like that, and
Speaker 2: Jill was like the perfect person to take me.
Speaker 3: We had a blast going into Paradise. Was there anyone
Speaker 3: that was on your list of people that you wanted
Speaker 3: to meet?
Speaker 2: I think a few caught my eye, But honestly, this
Speaker 2: time around, I made it a point not to like
Speaker 2: basically research or reach out to anyone. It was kind
Speaker 2: of I wanted to make my own assumptions of people.
Speaker 2: But also I feel like last time I put so
Speaker 2: much pressure on myself to make it work with somebody,
Speaker 2: where this time I just kind of wanted to go
Speaker 2: in and see what was going to happen. I really
Speaker 2: didn't have like a long list of people I wanted
Speaker 2: to meet. I just wanted to go and see whoever
Speaker 2: vibe with.
Speaker 3: Was it targetting down there because a lot of people
Speaker 3: coupled up really early this.
Speaker 2: Season, Yeah, I think so it was. It was really hard.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like going back to I don't know
Speaker 2: necessarily who I would have coupled up with if I
Speaker 2: was there first day. But there definitely wasn't a lot
Speaker 2: of people pulling me for chats at that point, like
Speaker 2: I like, I literally just like Jill. That was basically it.
Speaker 2: So it was a little bit difficult going in this
Speaker 2: time around as compared to I think previous seasons, more
Speaker 2: people are open a little bit longer. At least that
Speaker 2: was the vibe this time. It felt like after week
Speaker 2: two everyone was like lockdown. It was. It was kind
Speaker 2: of a unique situation for like Bachelor in Paradise.
Speaker 1: I would say, after your date with Jill, where do
Speaker 1: you guys stand? Yeah, me and Jill, anything romantic happening.
Speaker 2: We were definitely more like friend vibes, and even on
Speaker 2: the date, like we didn't really kiss, we had a blast.
Speaker 2: Like me and Jill have a certain similar personality where
Speaker 2: we can, like, you know, kind of mess around have
Speaker 2: fun banter a little bit, and we definitely vibed in
Speaker 2: that way, but in terms of romantic it wasn't really
Speaker 2: that romantic at all, And like we had a conversation
Speaker 2: I think the day after that date where it's like
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know if like I'm feeling anything in
Speaker 2: terms of romance, like I enjoy spending time with you,
Speaker 2: and like we'll see how it goes. But we kind
Speaker 2: of knew we were better office friends, and I feel
Speaker 2: like Jill probably would say the same.
Speaker 3: We see with the Birds of Paradise activity. You know,
Speaker 3: one guy comes down at a time they're pulling their girl.
Speaker 3: We see you come down and you opt out of
Speaker 3: pulling Jill and you go for April. Walk us through
Speaker 3: that decision.
Speaker 2: Okay, that night's a little blurry, so back up a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 3: But the Birds of Paradise night is a little blurry
Speaker 3: for the grip, a little blurry.
Speaker 2: So when we were going down, you're like picking out
Speaker 2: your outfits, and I like was first in, so I
Speaker 2: actually got like a decent outfit compared to some of
Speaker 2: the other ones there, and I'm getting hyped up, getting
Speaker 2: ready to go make a fool out of myself on
Speaker 2: national television. So having you know, a few drinks, all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, we have like a massive thunderstorm for
Speaker 2: like five hours where we're just stuck in our room
Speaker 2: doing nothing. So then you know, the drinks keep going,
Speaker 2: and five hours later, I'm like ready to go, like
Speaker 2: diving full into this this journey. And when I was
Speaker 2: going to do my dance, like Jill and I danced together,
Speaker 2: but I had planned to do like a body shot
Speaker 2: off April because I thought that was the crowd going
Speaker 2: and I'm honestly not the best dancer, so the crowd
Speaker 2: work might help my favor in terms of performance. I
Speaker 2: and then yeah, we made out, but it wasn't like
Speaker 2: I ignored Jill. I think that was just like kind
Speaker 2: of how how it looks, but it really wasn't like that.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you did pull Jill for a little moment,
Speaker 3: and then you also pulled April.
Speaker 2: Well, like the way it was work is like the
Speaker 2: girls supposed to stand up if like they got aroused
Speaker 2: by the person. So Jill stood up and we had
Speaker 2: danced around a little bit, which was great, but I
Speaker 2: also like had the moment where it's like I don't
Speaker 2: really want to like blur the lines with Jill in
Speaker 2: a way. Like, listen, I made out with April. Totally
Speaker 2: down to make out with Jill, you know, So like
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to blur the lines in that way,
Speaker 2: so for the bit, you know, but so like I
Speaker 2: just didn't want to have like have any confusion. Like
Speaker 2: we were friends and that was totally fine, and like
Speaker 2: she's an awesome person, you.
Speaker 3: Get what you're saying, Like you had established that it
Speaker 3: was a friend connection and you didn't want of them
Speaker 3: pull her make it a romantic thing in the game
Speaker 3: and then maybe generate some confusion, whereas like obviously April,
Speaker 3: you know, there's less risk of confusion there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, was there.
Speaker 1: A chance of any confusion with April?
Speaker 2: Tang Honestly at that point, thinking back to that week,
Speaker 2: Like if Alicia didn't come down and it was just
Speaker 2: like me and like April, I might have given her
Speaker 2: my rose. I mean I probably would have got gave
Speaker 2: it to that point, but like totally would be down
Speaker 2: to hang out with April and have fun. She was
Speaker 2: so much fun, so like such a care free attitude
Speaker 2: and like really interesting too, So I totally would have,
Speaker 2: you know, coupled up with April. You know, I had
Speaker 2: basically nothing else going on. I've been fun.
Speaker 1: I kind of wish that would have happened.
Speaker 3: We do see Alicia comes down, You're kind of being
Speaker 3: introduced to her at the same time every guy comes down,
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, there's a new girl here. We
Speaker 3: know that after the game, you and her had a conversation.
Speaker 3: Tell us about that conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that conversations that night's still a little bit blurry.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it went too well. I remember
Speaker 2: like being very intrigued by Alicia, and there's something about
Speaker 2: the way that she like carried herself. There's like this
Speaker 2: elegant presence to her. I kind of described it as
Speaker 2: like Princess Diana esque, like it just captivated me in
Speaker 2: a way. Obviously her eyes are stunning, but it was
Speaker 2: really like not probably not the best conversation at all
Speaker 2: at that point of the night. I was definitely, you know,
Speaker 2: probably should have went to bet but and we did
Speaker 2: have a much much better conversation than next morning, and
Speaker 2: that's where it kind of like solidified. I guess our
Speaker 2: interest in one another.
Speaker 1: Were you shocked when Jill sent herself home that night,
Speaker 1: and do you think it was because Alicia came in?
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was really shocked in the moment because like when
Speaker 2: Alicia had came in, like Jill disappeared right after like
Speaker 2: the Birds of Paradise dance, it wasn't like she was
Speaker 2: around there. She's like right to her hotel room, so
Speaker 2: I didn't even see her after that had had kind
Speaker 2: of finished. So when she came out and said she's leaving,
Speaker 2: I was kind of shocked because like I don't even
Speaker 2: know if I had, Like I think I had just
Speaker 2: spoken to Alicia for the first time like twenty five
Speaker 2: minutes before that, so it's not like it was, you know,
Speaker 2: hanging out kind of ignoring her situation.
Speaker 1: So I was shocked her again, I'm gonna go, well either,
Speaker 1: so you're kind of like fuck.
Speaker 2: I actually, like I remember having that conversations like super
Speaker 2: serious and Jill's like, Sean, I'm leaving, and I remember,
Speaker 2: just like coming off dancing, I'm like, oh no, and
Speaker 2: like it was the worst reaction possible. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: was kind of confused, and truthfully with Jill is not
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think it was me and like Alicia,
Speaker 2: I think it was more the culmination of like not
Speaker 2: only this experience on Paradise, but last experience, and it
Speaker 2: just kind of was the tipping point with that date
Speaker 2: and everything that was going on.
Speaker 1: Got it Okay. So when Alicia was on our podcast,
Speaker 1: she had mentioned so she ends up choosing you over Dale,
Speaker 1: but she had mentioned that her and Dale would have
Speaker 1: coupled up at the beginning. How does that? How do
Speaker 1: you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was definitely tough to hear. I don't the
Speaker 2: way that it came off, like I took it as
Speaker 2: if she said, like meant she was gonna end up
Speaker 2: with Dale at the end, And I think she might
Speaker 2: have been trying to explain in the beginning, like if
Speaker 2: she got there the first day, Yeah, I wasn't there,
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of what she meant to say, hopefully,
Speaker 2: But I think it came off as like a finality
Speaker 2: type thing in the end, and so like when you
Speaker 2: do that and then if you leave in a relationship
Speaker 2: with someone and then you you know, hear other stuff
Speaker 2: like on a podcast, like, yeah, it definitely definitely hurts.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The way I took it was if she was down
Speaker 3: day one or two and then Dale was also down
Speaker 3: day one or two, they had a lot in common
Speaker 3: that they might have ended up coupling up, but it's
Speaker 3: definitely a gray area with the comment. So yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: curious if we ever get clarity on that with her,
Speaker 3: but definitely an interesting take. I mean, do you think
Speaker 3: that her and Dale had a lot in common and
Speaker 3: could have been a good match.
Speaker 2: No, Like I don't, I don't think so. I mean,
Speaker 2: like it this was what was weird for me because
Speaker 2: even like hearing that comment then like watching it, like
Speaker 2: the show is like portraying like there was that like
Speaker 2: spark or whatever, like they were like thinking about it.
Speaker 2: I never once thought that, Like I felt so secure
Speaker 2: with Alicia the entire time, like even if like herd
Speaker 2: Dale and Cat were talking or her just heard Dale,
Speaker 2: Like what do you think anything of it? So it
Speaker 2: was kind of like almost like a jump scarer watching
Speaker 2: it back. And you know, I've always tried to get
Speaker 2: grace with people on the show because you never know
Speaker 2: how things like look in an interview, what questions they're
Speaker 2: getting asked, or and even like to come to Alicia's
Speaker 2: defense a little bit, like a lot of the interviews
Speaker 2: that was like right the day she got there, Like
Speaker 2: it wasn't like later on in the season. It was
Speaker 2: like the day she got there, that's her first reaction.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, probably fifteen glasses a champagn
Speaker 2: deep at that point, Like I would probably be okay
Speaker 2: with they're saying that she might have a better conversation
Speaker 2: with Dale at that point. If it was like later,
Speaker 2: that'd be a different story. But yeah, it just sucks
Speaker 2: to hear regardless, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So Jesse comes down and introduces basically a
Speaker 1: new element of the show that completely changes the show.
Speaker 1: It goes from a dating show to now a dating
Speaker 1: show slash competition show. There's five hundred thousand on the line.
Speaker 1: You as we see, especially in this current episode, you're
Speaker 1: really playing the game, which is understandable because it is
Speaker 1: now a game. Who else was on the same page
Speaker 1: as you, not just like where you wanted to vote,
Speaker 1: But as far as like, oh this is a competition now, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: It was strange. Like the reaction even when it was
Speaker 2: announced is five hundred thousand dollars. I was. I was psyched.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is really cool. So I get
Speaker 2: to do the same thing we're doing currently, but now
Speaker 2: there's a chance to win money at the end, I
Speaker 2: was like, this is an awesome, like fun opportunity. People's
Speaker 2: reaction to the money was like shocking to me, Like
Speaker 2: there was people complaining about it too, and I'm like, guys,
Speaker 2: like I've done Paradise before, Like we're doing the same
Speaker 2: thing we'd normally be doing. It's just now there's money involved.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be fun. And I think most people had
Speaker 2: in their hand that it was either like love or money,
Speaker 2: and like that was never the way it was explained.
Speaker 2: You can have both. It's just the reaction was crazy.
Speaker 2: And I really do think a lot of the people
Speaker 2: and for like maybe the detriment of the show that
Speaker 2: they come on, but like they're so worried about how
Speaker 2: they're gonna look, like they're so scared about what Bachelor
Speaker 2: Nation is going to think, Like oh, if I'm like
Speaker 2: interested in the money, they're gonna be mad at me.
Speaker 2: It's like, I I just think that people care too
Speaker 2: much about what other people think and you should just
Speaker 2: go and have fun. And the money was an awesome
Speaker 2: twist and I thought it was a really interesting element
Speaker 2: to the show.
Speaker 1: I agree, but who out of the rest of the
Speaker 1: cast was playing the game, so I.
Speaker 2: Completely just like went around the question John Matt, But
Speaker 2: there was in the thing is is like when we
Speaker 2: have off days behind cameras, when there's when you're actually
Speaker 2: not filming, people were more interested in the money and
Speaker 2: then they're going to camera and switch up. So like
Speaker 2: I think you saw in the episode, like Jonathan like like, oh,
Speaker 2: we should tell people we're not a showng couple because
Speaker 2: like you know, we can stay on longer. Like there
Speaker 2: was a lot of that going on. No one was
Speaker 2: just like open to talk about it. Like there it
Speaker 2: was just like behind closed doors type situation and when
Speaker 2: we have dead days we're not filming, people are into
Speaker 2: the concept of the game. And I was like, guys,
Speaker 2: have you like seen Survivor, like just like watch like
Speaker 2: a game show, like it can be fun and like entertaining.
Speaker 2: It just felt people are scared scared to like commit
Speaker 2: to like the competition.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is interesting. I'm loving this element, especially in
Speaker 3: this episode of people that have not signed up for
Speaker 3: a game show maybe never would have been like cast
Speaker 3: on a competition show frankly, and now are like forced
Speaker 3: into the competition element and who is like leaning in
Speaker 3: I like love the Jonathan and lay element, where like
Speaker 3: they're not really in a relationship, but they are kind
Speaker 3: of trying to like play the game for me personally,
Speaker 3: If I'm in a couple with Joe and he looks
Speaker 3: at me and goes, I don't care about the five
Speaker 3: hundred thousand, that doesn't mean anything to me. I literally
Speaker 3: don't care.
Speaker 1: Red flag.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, like red flags.
Speaker 1: Or you better or you better have a lot of money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you better be rich.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna look at my face and say I
Speaker 3: don't care about half a million dollars. So there is
Speaker 3: this kind of like like tell me if I'm right.
Speaker 3: It like feels like some people like this holier than
Speaker 3: now mentality of no, I'm here for love because my
Speaker 3: heart is pure. And then people are looking at you
Speaker 3: and some of the other people as like how dare
Speaker 3: you care about the money?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was nuts, and like it's half a million dollars.
Speaker 2: It's not like fifty k where after taxes, you know,
Speaker 2: like whatever, it's like twenty five maybe right, half a
Speaker 2: million dollars? Like these people do these people make that
Speaker 2: outside of the show. I can guarantee you know, like
Speaker 2: you know, how long you have to work to make that,
Speaker 2: Like that's a really, really good year's worth of work there,
Speaker 2: and I can win it on a competition show that
Speaker 2: I had no idea I was gonna be in money element,
Speaker 2: Like yeah, the holier That approach is the best way
Speaker 2: to describe it's serena, because like that's what it felt like.
Speaker 2: Even when I was saying some of the stuff this episode,
Speaker 2: I'm like, guys, like I'm not being mean, Like at
Speaker 2: least like the cat thing might be a little bit mean,
Speaker 2: but before that, it was never like mean. I was
Speaker 2: just like, it doesn't make sense strategically to not think
Speaker 2: this way, Like who does it benefit if you're just
Speaker 2: going around to the next week, And I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people are just trying to buy their time
Speaker 2: until they got voted off, And like, I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: just sit around and wait for someone to come chop
Speaker 2: my head off, Like I'm gonna try to protect myself
Speaker 2: and do something that would give us some sort of security.
Speaker 1: Do you think Brian telling Bailey about Jeremy was a
Speaker 1: game move or a friend move.
Speaker 2: I think it was a little bit of both. I
Speaker 2: think I think strategically it might have been into his favor,
Speaker 2: but I'll tell you what the whole situation. I'm glad
Speaker 2: you brought that up, Joe, because I was thinking strategy
Speaker 2: from the moment they said, this is a competition show.
Speaker 2: So to go back into like last episodes when Brian
Speaker 2: brings up all the stuff and everyone gets mad at Brian.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people. Truthfully, I didn't have
Speaker 2: a problem with Brian, but a lot of people didn't
Speaker 2: like Brian. Like they did not like Brian, so when
Speaker 2: it came to him, they immediately turned on him no
Speaker 2: matter what. And he was right to tell Bailey because
Speaker 2: like watching it back and you find it out on
Speaker 2: a TV show, it's that'd be I'd be awful.
Speaker 1: Why did you tell Bailey?
Speaker 2: I came in and I wasn't even there when Susy
Speaker 2: was there, so I wasn't even there for the phone call.
Speaker 2: I really had note, Like Jeremy brought it up to
Speaker 2: me one time in the pool, and I think it
Speaker 2: was like three days after I had gotten there, and
Speaker 2: he was like telling me like everything that happened at
Speaker 2: that point. He's like, yeah, no, I like she left.
Speaker 2: I called her. I was like, what do you mean
Speaker 2: you called her? He's like, yeah, I just called her.
Speaker 2: I was like like on camera, he's like yeah, like
Speaker 2: in an interview, I'm like, you're an idiot, dude, Like
Speaker 2: that is definitely making it. But then I kind of
Speaker 2: forgot about it, Like I literally like I wasn't around
Speaker 2: for all like the Brian like talking to Bailey that night.
Speaker 2: I had no idea. I completely forgot about it. And
Speaker 2: then that one night everything blew up and I was like, oh, geez,
Speaker 2: I guess like Jeremy never brought it up. I thought
Speaker 2: it was squash it like never came up after that
Speaker 2: moment until everything came apart.
Speaker 3: Gotcha walk us through your Parliament of Paradise strategy and
Speaker 3: how you picked who you wanted to be in this
Speaker 3: alliance with and like how you envisioned it going versus
Speaker 3: how it actually went.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. So when I started to do the
Speaker 2: math on how many days of Paradise were remaining, because
Speaker 2: you have like a finale date, like when we're stopped
Speaker 2: from filming, there was like five days left, like maybe six,
Speaker 2: I'm like, we're voting off people at a raptor right now.
Speaker 2: I was like I'm fine this week, but like next
Speaker 2: week it's gonna be meat Alicia, like I knew that
Speaker 2: like no one, Like if you see the way it went,
Speaker 2: like that was kind of the way people were going
Speaker 2: to go. So I was like, if I wait until
Speaker 2: next week to start doing stuff, it's gonna look like
Speaker 2: my back's against the wall, like they're not gonna trust me.
Speaker 2: If I do it in advance, I think the people
Speaker 2: would trust me and like they would know that I
Speaker 2: would have their back going in to try to set
Speaker 2: up like the final four, and like, truly it came
Speaker 2: down from I was friends with Kat prior to the
Speaker 2: show for like two and a half years. I knew
Speaker 2: Jeremy beforehand, and Alicia was friends with Alex and Bailey
Speaker 2: they're from their season. Like that's kind of how it
Speaker 2: came out. And then like at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: like Spencer and Jess, like I don't want to go
Speaker 2: up against them in the end, Like however this is
Speaker 2: going to end, whether it's like I don't know, like
Speaker 2: the audience votes like I'm not I'm not gonna win
Speaker 2: the vote against like Spencer and Jess. If it's like
Speaker 2: the if like they let's say a jury comes back
Speaker 2: and votes like I'm not gonna win that if I'm
Speaker 2: going against them, so like trying to like facilitate Alicia
Speaker 2: and I up to have the best success moving forward.
Speaker 2: And like the people I involved, they'd all like expressed interest,
Speaker 2: like and that was like where it's kind of shocking
Speaker 2: the way the way it came off. They played downplayed it,
Speaker 2: and I think that they kind of caught on that
Speaker 2: no one else was like thinking strategically, so then they
Speaker 2: like backed out, but like each one of them was
Speaker 2: like game off camera to a degree, Like I was like,
Speaker 2: what are you thinking about this? Like, yeah, I agree
Speaker 2: all this type of stuff, and then like when it
Speaker 2: came actually time to like put it out there and
Speaker 2: like do it, completely backed out and then that's what
Speaker 2: you kind of see happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like the energy that's going on is
Speaker 3: like the people that are in the strongest couples are safe,
Speaker 3: and they're going to slowly pick off the people that
Speaker 3: are either in a friendship couple or not in a
Speaker 3: strong couple until it's basically only the serious relationships left. However,
Speaker 3: we then see them vote out Brian and Prisa, who
Speaker 3: from an audience perspective, are in a much stronger relationship
Speaker 3: than Leiah and Jonathan or Kathy and Keith.
Speaker 1: How do we get from.
Speaker 3: Point A to point B.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed like again like I would say, kind
Speaker 2: of the holier than thou approach type situation, like they
Speaker 2: didn't like Brian, they vote them off, Like I don't
Speaker 2: understand where the concept went wry, and like it was
Speaker 2: kind of selective in terms of who they put that onto, like, oh,
Speaker 2: Jonathan lay are cool with people because they want their season,
Speaker 2: Like they're not going to vote them off, but like
Speaker 2: Brian and Preser are fair game. So that was like
Speaker 2: a little bit interesting in terms of like how we
Speaker 2: left the plot and voting out like picking off couples.
Speaker 2: But like the thing is like we were going to
Speaker 2: get down to a point where everyone was a couple,
Speaker 2: so like how are you going to vote then, Like
Speaker 2: it's just automatically if you were there earlier staying longer
Speaker 2: like that didn't make sense to me, Like there was
Speaker 2: probably stronger couples than maybe for him later. So it
Speaker 2: was the whole thing was a little bit confusing, and
Speaker 2: no one was thinking like a couple steps ahead. It
Speaker 2: was only like in this moment, like this day, how
Speaker 2: are you going to feel? And like I was trying
Speaker 2: to think a little bit further down the line.
Speaker 1: I think I think you're kind of like the victim
Speaker 1: of this being the first time the show does this,
Speaker 1: and because you went so and you did go, you
Speaker 1: did go a little too hard with the strategy because
Speaker 1: that just that put a target on your Like if
Speaker 1: I was down there and then people are like, let's
Speaker 1: just go Sean and the numbers were on you, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, he's an easy target. Just get it
Speaker 1: off me. Because I think that's a big part of
Speaker 1: the game element too, is like as long as it's
Speaker 1: not me, I don't really care who it is because
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get to the end. But you
Speaker 1: see you get pretty worked up over Cat, which seems
Speaker 1: pretty reasonable because we see in the episode kind of
Speaker 1: clips of you standing up for Cat.
Speaker 3: She also did come on our podcast and say going
Speaker 3: into the season, you guys were good friends and that
Speaker 3: she would like call you about guy stuff and you
Speaker 3: would call her about girl stuff.
Speaker 1: So what goes wrong?
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I actually don't even know if I
Speaker 2: still know the answer to that. And like, the way
Speaker 2: I describe friends in this world is like I have
Speaker 2: like my Bachelor Nation friends that i'll see at an event,
Speaker 2: I'll see out of them in their city, but I'm
Speaker 2: not like calling them to like hang out. You know,
Speaker 2: Cal was like a real friend, like outside of this,
Speaker 2: we would talk pretty frequently on the phone, like you know,
Speaker 2: we caught up before Paradise, like when she was in
Speaker 2: Tampa for the holidays, like met her, like met her
Speaker 2: some of her her sister. I think so like she
Speaker 2: was like an actual friend. And I don't know, like
Speaker 2: I really don't know. I think that in her mind,
Speaker 2: I was trying to get people to turn against her,
Speaker 2: which was like never the case, like if I if
Speaker 2: I didn't win, I want a cat to win, like
Speaker 2: the money. And I think it was just a game
Speaker 2: of telephone and I again I don't necessarily know all
Speaker 2: the details because we don't get to see everything. But
Speaker 2: I think it was more so like you said, Joe,
Speaker 2: where like people were trying to put the target off
Speaker 2: their back, so then that shifts.
Speaker 1: It on to me.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, yeah, he's gonna do this, he's not.
Speaker 2: You can't trust him all that type of things. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it kind of went awry and then I just felt
Speaker 2: like pretty betrayed at that moment. And I was like
Speaker 2: the one person who I thought I could trust, But
Speaker 2: I actually don't even know what honestly happened, Like I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'll ever truly know the situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, watching it, she definitely seems to hesitate on wanting
Speaker 3: to speak to the fact that you guys are friends,
Speaker 3: and it does feel like she is calling your character
Speaker 3: into question. I think she says like she feels like
Speaker 3: you're not moving with integrity, and she's really really upset
Speaker 3: by the conversation, as are you. I guess my question
Speaker 3: is like, do you think it was miscommunication? Do you
Speaker 3: think that if you had maybe not moved in such
Speaker 3: a like aggressive strategic way, this wouldn't have happened, Like
Speaker 3: what do you think was the fuel to this fire?
Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of everything. I think
Speaker 2: that the strategic portion, like to make a good analogy, yeah,
Speaker 2: I went hard on the strategy, but I describe it
Speaker 2: like the Seahawks, like throwing a pick to Malcolm Butler
Speaker 2: and the goal line in the Super Bowl, Like everyone
Speaker 2: went back was like that's.
Speaker 1: A terrible move.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't have done that. You should run the ball.
Speaker 2: But if it had worked, it been a great play,
Speaker 2: Like had they like bought in, it would have created
Speaker 2: like an element of like security for like all the
Speaker 2: couples within that, especially Cat, and I think it was
Speaker 2: more so that she thought I couldn't be trusted in
Speaker 2: general because I was talking so strategically. But in reality,
Speaker 2: the only people that should have been mad about that
Speaker 2: were just justin Spencer, like Alex Andrew, like Bailey and
Speaker 2: Jeremy Key and Dale, like you were part of like
Speaker 2: the group where I wasn't trying to like get people
Speaker 2: voted off, like I was gonna protect you. So I
Speaker 2: think it was more so people trying to get the
Speaker 2: target off the back. Once they like saw I was
Speaker 2: rubbing people the wrong way, they like piled on and
Speaker 2: like there was some stuff that I got told that
Speaker 2: people thought I said. I was like, I've never said that,
Speaker 2: Like I said I was like saying mean things to Jonathan.
Speaker 2: I was like, I never said anything me to Jonathan
Speaker 2: at all. So I think it was just a game
Speaker 2: of telephone that spiled out of control, and then it
Speaker 2: came to a front with the Cat conversation.
Speaker 3: How did it feel when she went back to Dale
Speaker 3: and then Dale and you kind of got into it.
Speaker 2: I mean, what am I gonna say to Dale? Like,
Speaker 2: I mean we've seen like kind of this. I was like, what,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I didn't want to get into like an
Speaker 2: argument with Dale over something that I didn't even know
Speaker 2: what Kat said, like she said I cussed her out,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think I cussed her out. I think
Speaker 2: I used a cuss word, like saying I've never like
Speaker 2: death and do that to you. But like at that point,
Speaker 2: like I didn't even care, like I was if so
Speaker 2: I felt so betrayed. No one was like looking at me.
Speaker 2: No one was looking me in the eye, know, would
Speaker 2: come up to me, like it was really awkward. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to go with a with Alicia and like
Speaker 2: just be done with it the whole situation. So I
Speaker 2: kind of just like, yeah, I'm done. Let's that's not
Speaker 2: even worth an argument.
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you part of the idea to just self eliminate?
Speaker 1: Why not just like get eliminated? Like it kind of
Speaker 1: looks like when Alicia kind of steps up and like
Speaker 1: me and Choan are going to leave as a couple,
Speaker 1: we're gonna self eliminate. Like it kind of seems like, well,
Speaker 1: you guys were gonna get eliminated anyway, it's like.
Speaker 2: Why, Yeah, I think it was more so like not
Speaker 2: give him the satisfactions, like you didn't vote us off
Speaker 2: we left or home, but reality there we were done anyway.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was like like whatever, like we're done,
Speaker 2: and like Alicia felt betrayed by her friends too, like
Speaker 2: we just weren't. It wasn't fun anymore. Like it was
Speaker 2: like I was enjoying the hell out of paradise and
Speaker 2: just didn't become fun. And truthfully, there was like no
Speaker 2: way we were gonna like go and we were we
Speaker 2: were gonna be gone the next week anyway after this,
Speaker 2: there's no way we're like staying. So it was just
Speaker 2: time to go.
Speaker 1: If you would have won, because you guys almost won,
Speaker 1: so if you did stay next week and then one,
Speaker 1: you stood.
Speaker 2: A chance we had, yeah, won the competition. We would
Speaker 2: have had to win a competition, and like I had
Speaker 2: some great ideas if we won, like believe it the
Speaker 2: strategy element. So this was fun off the gas well,
Speaker 2: I think people like and people have came to me afterwards,
Speaker 2: like I probably should have listened to you a little
Speaker 2: bit more like towards the end because obviously know how
Speaker 2: it ends. But I wanted to be able to like
Speaker 2: control the game in a way, right, And there's certain
Speaker 2: elements to it where you could like have an impact
Speaker 2: in the voting without just yourself. So for example, like
Speaker 2: the way it was worded was when you wanted a competition,
Speaker 2: like you got to hand out the first rows. In
Speaker 2: my mind and this like how deep When I was like,
Speaker 2: what if I hand it out to like another guy,
Speaker 2: Like everyone's voting for Brian. What if I hand it
Speaker 2: out to Brian Then he gets it to pres and
Speaker 2: everyone thinks we're safe, they're not voting for us. Then
Speaker 2: I get another rose at the end, and you can
Speaker 2: kind of like manipulate the vote that way and like
Speaker 2: get people out. Like that's how deep we're talking about. Guys.
Speaker 2: They should? They should?
Speaker 1: We do see Brian gets Brian gets a little worked up,
Speaker 1: and he's like I'm gonna you know, in his interview
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm gonna slap this kid right now, referring
Speaker 1: to you. I don't I don't think he was serious,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like what was his issue? And you guys
Speaker 1: had a conversation and how did that end?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it ended up like fine, Like Brian like Brian
Speaker 2: was mad that I was, like he thought I was
Speaker 2: trying to get a vote. It often like I was
Speaker 2: last week for sure, because I thought, like, strategically, why
Speaker 2: we re voicing about and Kimmy's gone that following week.
Speaker 2: I was like, eh, when he had the conversation with me,
Speaker 2: like it actually makes sense to keep him here. And
Speaker 2: I told him straight up, I was like, dude, I
Speaker 2: don't have a problem with like what you did with Bailey.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with you as a person,
Speaker 2: Like this is a game at this point, and like strategically,
Speaker 2: like it kind of like we're getting down to the end.
Speaker 2: And like after that conversation, me and Brian were cool,
Speaker 2: like like no, no problems at all, Like it probably
Speaker 2: looked like he was upset. He probably was. But a
Speaker 2: big point of this is any time once I started
Speaker 2: talking strategy, anytime I would have a conversation with anybody,
Speaker 2: they people were like, oh, they're talking strategy. I could
Speaker 2: be talking about like the Berts and people would assume
Speaker 2: like I was talking about peptides one time with Dale
Speaker 2: and like everyone's they're talking strategy. It's like that type
Speaker 2: of like telephone game basically happened but now Brian, me
Speaker 2: and Brian finally had that conversation, and then everything after
Speaker 2: that was fine.
Speaker 3: What do you wish you've done differently?
Speaker 2: Woo, I think a lot of it. I wish that
Speaker 2: I would have been a little bit more aware of
Speaker 2: like where people's alliances were. And I think looking back
Speaker 2: at it, it was we were Me and Alicia were
Speaker 2: in a really tough spot from the get go. I
Speaker 2: was the last guy to come in, she was the
Speaker 2: last girl. I had zero people from Charity season there.
Speaker 2: I had none of my friends, like my true friends
Speaker 2: outside of this, no one was there. I didn't even
Speaker 2: have a roommate. All these people had roommates and there
Speaker 2: ruining one another, Like I didn't have anyone. It was
Speaker 2: just by myself. So like when you add that element
Speaker 2: to the game, like we were really far behind, probably
Speaker 2: should just like shut up once in a while and
Speaker 2: just like kind of played in the shadows a little
Speaker 2: bit more. But my that was a part of the
Speaker 2: strategy too, because like if it got down to the
Speaker 2: end and I'm like open about it and I'm not
Speaker 2: stabbing like my friends in the back, which I wouldn't have, like,
Speaker 2: then you might be able to like win like a
Speaker 2: vote from like the audience or like, however it's going
Speaker 2: to end. But yeah, I probably just shut up once
Speaker 2: in a while.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think I think you were kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, yeah, you were focked. The only
Speaker 1: shot you had really was a few you would you
Speaker 1: guys almost won that that competition. If you would have
Speaker 1: won that competition, and then you could have locked somebody
Speaker 1: in on your side for being a little loyal, which
Speaker 1: in competition games and no one's loyal, but that would
Speaker 1: have been your holy chance. Other than that, yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't have a roommate. You guys are the two last
Speaker 1: people in, so you're the easiest to vote out. Like
Speaker 1: it's just so easy to just be like, yeah, well
Speaker 1: we didn't know them prior, or we didn't know Sean Pryor,
Speaker 1: like he just got here gone.
Speaker 2: And that's like and Alicia and I like we were
Speaker 2: from Tampa, like so everyone was talking like, oh, like
Speaker 2: why do you guys need to be here? You just
Speaker 2: go back together, and it's like everything was stocked against us.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we were, like you said, we were fucked. Basically,
Speaker 2: so you.
Speaker 3: Send yourself home. Where do you stand with the Leisha?
Speaker 3: When you guys leave, What are the conversations you're having?
Speaker 3: Are you going to try to continue the relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like when we got sent home, I was so excited,
Speaker 2: like we were going back to Tampa together, Like we
Speaker 2: had talked about leaving a relationship well prior to us
Speaker 2: getting eliminated, and I think looking back, like we were
Speaker 2: spending like every night, like sleeping the same room together,
Speaker 2: like all those like meaningful moments, even like the episode
Speaker 2: where Kim gets voted off, like I had like a
Speaker 2: mini day where I'm like putting a blindfold on her,
Speaker 2: feeding her like chocolates and stuff like that. Like like
Speaker 2: there was all these like integral moments to our relationship
Speaker 2: that like really built it up. I didn't really see
Speaker 2: it at all, but I was excited. I was like,
Speaker 2: we need to go back and like hang out with
Speaker 2: her I found. I thought I found like the most
Speaker 2: amazing person. I was like incredibly excited about our relationship.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I couldn't wait to get back to Tampa.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we can't really touch on where your
Speaker 1: relationship status is now, but I think that really covers everything. Sean,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time and coming
Speaker 1: on the podcast.
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, it's a pleasure talking to you again. I
Speaker 2: don't think we'll probably have this conversation again in the
Speaker 2: normal setting, but well we'll say probably not.
Speaker 1: And to all our listeners, thank you guys so much
Speaker 1: for tuning in the bed or happy hour. Make sure
Speaker 1: you download and subscribe to the podcast so.
Speaker 3: We'll have new and exclusive interviews every single week. Thanks
Speaker 3: for listening by