WEBVTT - Kathy Valentine 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.160 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.080 My guest today is Kathy Valentine. You know where as 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.080 a member of the Go goes that you just wrote 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:23.400 an amazing book all I ever wanted. Kathy, Hi, what's that, Bob? Okay? 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.400 So why did you write the book? Well, there's the 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.639 big reason, and then there's the all the little reasons. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.120 The big reason was I had wanted to write a 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.400 book for a long time. I felt confident that I 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.320 could write a good book. Um, I just felt like 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.240 I didn't have a deadline and I didn't have an assignment, 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.560 and I didn't know if I had the discipline and 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.239 the motivation to actually do it every day. But I 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.400 got a book deal. So once I had a book deal, 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.960 you'd be crazy not to write a book. So there's 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.640 that reason. Okay, but a little bit slower. How did 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.960 you get a book deal? Um? I was doing the 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:59.920 Texas Book Festival. I was moderating a panel and ut Press. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.760 A woman was there and she liked She started thinking, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.760 I wonder if Kathy would be interested in this. And 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.760 I had been thinking about it for quite a while. 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.640 I had done a Twitter memoir starting in like two 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.880 thousand nine that I got in trouble for and I 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.759 took it down, not in trouble from Twitter, but from 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.280 the rest of the go Goes. So I took it down, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.839 but it was there long enough for me to see 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.360 that that um my story was resonating with people. So 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.959 I I just I had I felt confident, and yet 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.319 at the same time, I wasn't sure what the story 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:36.600 would be. I knew I wanted to be a memoir. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.720 I had read several memoirs, and I thought, I got 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.920 a story. I can do that, and I just kind 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.280 of went from there. How much writing had you done 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:50.240 before you attempted the memoir, Well, I had been to 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.640 college student for many years. I was just I have 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.880 a tendency when life feels kind of like I'm not 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.920 getting anywhere, which happens a lot as an artist, um 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.720 or that I was spinning my wheels or just feeling lost. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.560 I would take college classes, and a few years ago 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.280 I realized I was very close to having enough credits 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.359 to to get a degree, so I started working towards 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.720 an English degree because part of my big plan was 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.960 I will write a book during an m f A program, 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.360 because then it'll be like having a an assignment and 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.640 I know I'll do it, but I got the book 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.600 deal in between. Then. So in the course of writing 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.720 for college, I was getting a's, I was getting good feedback, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.280 I was doing creative writing classes, turning in short stories. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.280 My first idea was to do a collection of short stories, 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.359 but I didn't think anyone would buy me as a 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:47.040 legit writer, so I thought, and plus, with short stories 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.640 or literature, you're competing with every literary genius that's also 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.080 writing books, Whereas if I wrote a memoir, it's like 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.840 my story, I'm the one that's I'm the one that's 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.079 going to tell this story the best. So it kind 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.440 of was just a smart way to try to introduce 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.040 myself as a writer. Okay, there are a couple of things. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.760 How did you end up moderating that piano at the 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.520 book fair? Well, I'm in Austin and i'm a I'm 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.079 kind of a semi big fish and a semi little pond, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.000 so you know, opportunities float my way every now and then. 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.800 And the panel was with Jessica Hopper, who had put 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.720 out a book called the first Collection of Rock Criticism 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.560 by a female rock critic, and so I think their 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.560 idea was that it would be a little hook to 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:38.560 have the woman rock critic being moderated by the woman musician. 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.560 Maybe that was the idea. Okay, So the woman who 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.920 gave you the deal from the University of Texas Press, 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.640 had you known her previously? No? I had not, and 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.280 she it was just a fluke. She found me. I 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:54.840 had had a woman had babysat my kid like years before, 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.560 and she was working at UT Press. And this woman 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.320 who had signing Capabile at Ease went to that person 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.440 and said, did you say that you knew Kathy Valentine. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:11.200 So the former babysitter contacted me. I I I contacted 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.880 Gianna and we met for coffee and Bob, I gotta 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.880 tell you. Within an hour, I started feeling like, I 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.320 think I've got a book deal. And I said, are 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.080 you giving me a wait? Are you giving me a 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.240 book deal? And I said, you haven't even seen how 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:27.880 I can write? And she said, oh, we're not worried 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.839 about it. We're not worried about it. And I asked, well, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.000 can I send you some stuff? I had written some 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:38.320 scenes the scene about me getting an abortion when I'm 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.520 twelve years old. I had written about that I had 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.400 written about some of some things in my life, and 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.440 I sent her the stuff and she I loved the 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.599 answer because she wrote back and said, I want this book. 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.719 I want this book more than any book. And you 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.359 could probably get another book deal. We can't offer you 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.400 a lot where a nonprofit. And I said, yeah, but 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.640 are giving me a deal, and I don't have to 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.520 shop a manuscript, so I'll go with you T Press. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.040 Plus I liked what they had been putting out. They 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.839 had put out a couple of pretty cool little music books. Okay, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.680 and you're going to give the other reason for doing 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.279 the book, I might have covered it and all that blabbing. Okay, Okay, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.080 let's focus because you know there's the famous line on 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.080 the Springsteen Live album where his mother says, you can 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.920 always go back to college. Okay, there are most musicians, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.040 if they went to college at all, certainly don't finish. 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.479 So when did you start taking college classes? I started, well, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.080 I started when I was sixteen, and then they kicked 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.680 me out of community college because I didn't have a 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.600 high school transcript. I didn't return until I was in 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.560 l A. And I was just very frustrated. I thought 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.000 like every band I started just wouldn't get any traction. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.800 And it just started feeling like everything I did didn't 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.359 go anywhere. And I thought, I mean, oh, I know 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.040 what happened. I I read a book, a historical fiction book, 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.279 and it was just a fluke. I found it on 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.160 an airplane, and my I felt like this feeling. I 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.400 was enthralled with ancient history. And I started devouring all 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:18.640 these books, like I mean practically like academic things about 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.160 ancient Rome. And that's what made me want to go 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:22.600 back to school. I thought, I want to I want 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.320 to get a I want to study ancient history. And 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.960 I started out with Latin because I wanted to read 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.200 all the texts in actual Latin. Of course, I didn't 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.680 realize that being a classic major just means that's all 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:39.680 you do is a transcribe and transpose, uh stuff. So anyway, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.760 but then I realized very quickly I had to take 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.159 basic college courses that I hadn't finished. So I taught 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.080 myself algebra to get myself up to a level of college. Well, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.720 how did you teach yourself algebra? You just go buy 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.279 books at like Barnes and Nobles, Like teach yourself algebra, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.920 High school Algebra one. I was doing it by trial 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.800 and error. Then I got in trouble. They sent a 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.039 report home to my parents whatever. So I didn't see 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.880 the learning curve is flat. I saw it as relatively steep. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:10.920 Well I and so, but I just did it. It 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:12.760 was like I had to do it to get into 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:17.000 college level math. And I just kept finding these wonderful things. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.040 Like when I got into college level math, I took statistics. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.480 I thought, what a what a bore and this statistic 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.200 professor And it was at Glendale Community College and he 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.400 remains to this day my favorite instructor I've ever had. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.680 I just sent him a book. We stay in touch, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.880 and he made mathematics seem like the language of God. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.280 He was phenomenal. And learning is like that. It's like 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.600 once you once you start feeling kind of fired up, 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.640 and and just that feeling of being enthralled is all 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.400 I know. I hadn't found that since music. I never 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.200 found anything that, you know, literally like made my palm 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.200 sweat and made me my heart race and learning something 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.560 and doing well. I'm I've always been kind of an 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.560 approval junkie. So getting an A and a class feels good. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.840 It gave me self esteem and validation, and I just 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.040 I like it. I just like it. So I just 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.440 started kind of haphazardly taking courses and I went on 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.440 to Pasadena City College, and then I got married and stuff, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.360 and when I got to Austin, I started resuming mainly 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.480 so I could get that into that m f A program. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.200 But there's a mismiss, there's a mistake. I'm not actually 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.040 I've not graduated yet. I'm two classes away from having 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.760 my my college degree. So do you plan to take 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.760 those two classes? I do, because one of them is 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.319 just writing a thesis. It's even in this undergraduate undergrad program, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.280 you need to write a capstone thesis about So that's 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.920 that's one thing. And the other thing I've been trying 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.520 to just avoid as much as possible, um like sitting 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.920 in a classroom. Like I've done a lot of portfolio 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.800 things where I put together proof that I know the 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.520 material well enough. I've done a lot of that and 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.200 whatever I could get away with taking UH online and 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:06.640 then of course I've had to sit in a lot 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:08.600 of classrooms. But if I can do it at home, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.880 i'd rather because I like making my own schedule. Okay. Well, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.480 as I say that you cover your life pretty well 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.960 in your book, but just to hit some of the highlights, 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:24.080 you have rather unique upbringing. Can you amplify that? Yes, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.920 I did, UM, and I guess I would. The basic 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.079 thing I would say is that my mom, I mean, 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.160 I could have spun it very differently. I could have 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:38.000 made her just a post sixties free spirit um, but 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.320 she was okay. I had talked to her about being 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.920 truthful and honest about my my childhood and how I 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.920 was raised. But basically, my mom had me at twenty one. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.360 She's from England. She she divorced my dad when being 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.880 married and living in America didn't meet her expectations, and 0:09:56.000 --> 0:10:01.680 she was She was very um, I thought, fearless and brave. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.840 What she was was pretty reckless and irresponsible. UM. I 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:12.720 was kind of left to raise myself. My earliest memory, UM, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.440 not as an event, but as a feeling, was the 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.560 sense that I needed to be okay, that if I 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.319 wasn't okay, she wouldn't be okay, and the whole precarious 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.400 thing of our relationship and my my childhood would would 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.640 fall into the abyss. So I've I very much felt 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.720 like I always had to be okay. I carried that 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.400 with me most of my life. Now, does that mean 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.640 you were faking being okay? Or you will find a 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.760 way to make yourself both both You just your kid, 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.000 You figure it out. You know. It meant when it 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.360 meant because there was no other kids around, It meant 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:55.440 being able to amuse myself, entertain myself. It meant, you know, 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.360 I had no brothers and sisters. The only child I 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.720 learned how to read. I would read books. I was 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:05.320 just on my own a lot um. And when I 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.079 got to be a certain my dad was not present 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.000 in my life. I think it was very painful. It's 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.240 not conscious when you're a kid, you know. I just 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.600 felt like I don't think I felt like I mattered 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:22.920 very much to him, and uh I, um, I just 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:27.120 kind of got very uh as soon as I found 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.120 something that made me feel like I could fit in, 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.319 which was drinking. And I started drinking at twelve, and 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.679 I found a group of misfits that I could kind 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.640 of fit in with. And once I started feeling like 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.360 I fit in a little bit, um that was that 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.680 was how I coped. So we didn't want to go 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.480 into that right away, but I got a little okay, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.480 but your you say your mother went to college. Yeah, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.040 my mother was a ut student. It took her twelve 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.679 years to get her degree. She uh was raising me 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.960 by herself. She had a boyfriend and she was obsessed 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.880 with for about a decade who really wouldn't give me 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.040 the time of day. So it was kind of dysfunctional. 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.719 I just wanted attention from him, never got it. She 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.600 was obsessed with him. I felt very very abandoned and 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.319 alone and that my job was to take care of myself. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.439 That's what I felt. And did your mother graduate from college? Yes? 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.280 She did, so do you think that's an inspiration for you? 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.640 I think that the academic life has always been something 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:37.360 that I valued. My dad was a professor of economics. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.160 Even though he wasn't a big part of my life, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.360 I was proud of him because that's how he got 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.680 out of Lubbock, Texas and how he kind of separated 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.720 himself from the poverty that he grew up with was 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.600 through education. And school was just something until it became 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.120 something where socially it was too painful. It was something 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.400 I enjoyed. I enjoyed excelling at it. I enjoyed approval 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.720 and I enjoyed learning. So before you turned twelve and 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.920 you took a left field turn, um, did you so? 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.640 You did well in school? Were you popular? Did you 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.079 have friends? I was? Um? I was a straight A 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:26.440 student and very advanced and in terms of like the curriculum, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.839 but I felt like an outsider. It wasn't so bad 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.080 at first because my mom she would work at a 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.240 job for like a year or two save up her 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.800 meager retirement, and we'd go to England and spend a 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.840 couple of months, and when the money ran out, we'd 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.320 come home and we'd live in a new apartment and 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.400 I'd go to a new school. So I was always 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.160 the new kid. But in the fifth grade, she decided 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.199 she wanted to give me something better. And that's when 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.880 it really got bad, because she moved to this this 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.360 very kind of lower middle class neighborhood wherever one was 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:05.920 quite conventional and it was seventy seventy one. The we 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.600 just stuck out like sword thumbs. And that's not what 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.120 you want to do when you're eleven. You don't want 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:16.280 to stick out, but we really did, and uh, I 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.880 remember being embarrassed. She would pull up in her sports 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:23.360 car and her mini dress, and I would be embarrassed. Uh. 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.080 I just wanted to be like everybody else, and it 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.440 was it wasn't gonna happen, just was not going to happen. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.440 So I was kind of a mess waiting to happen. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.400 And you talked about your mother in the book. How 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.560 does your mother feel about the book? Because you're very 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.000 honest in the book. She's really I've always been her 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.960 most vicarious, pride of and proof that she didn't mess 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:53.680 everything up. Um, she feels very very proud of me. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.120 I she I didn't want her to be the villain 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.360 of the story. I mean, I really try. I too 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.560 adhere to the conventions of storytelling and that there was 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.480 an arc, there was a protagonist that was me, that 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.400 overcame obstacles and came out a changed person. I knew. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.600 I knew the conventions of storytelling enough to want that, 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.360 but I didn't want that villain in my story. And 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.480 I asked her about everything before I would write about it. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.320 I said, I'm going to write about you know, us 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.800 dating the drug dealers. I'm going to write about you 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.080 having an affair with a friend of mine, a teenage boy. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.280 I'm going to write about this, and is that okay? 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.120 Is that okay with you? Because I wasn't going to 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.400 do anything hurtful. If she said it's not okay, I 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:45.160 wouldn't have done it. And oddly or ironically, her saying 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.400 yes and giving permission gave me a lens to see 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.320 all this stuff and through a different point of view, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.440 because as I'm writing it, you're I'm appalled, like, how 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.400 could she do this? How could she do this? I'm 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:01.520 a mom, I can't imagine that, but okay. It made 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.800 me realize that it was more important to her that 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.800 I tell my story and tell it truthfully and honestly 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.440 than it was for her to be depicted as some 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.480 idealized great mom. And that made me realize how even 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.520 though some big pillars of parenting were missing, i e. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:25.000 Guidance and boundaries, actual parenting, I realized that I had 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.560 gotten support and I had gotten love. And uh. She 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.640 said it's painful for her to read. It's painful, but 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.160 she said something funny. The other day. She again, she 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.800 said it was so painful. I thought I'd done a 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.240 really good job until I wrote that. So was there 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:48.240 anything you intentionally left out about the childhood about your mother. 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.400 Uh No, I I pretty much told most of that stuff. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.960 I mean, yeah, I think I think I hit on 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.560 all the big ones. Okay, So what she anges? When 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.880 you're twelve, you're in this new neighborhood. How do you 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.160 fall in with a bad crowd? Shall Lisa? Well? I? 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.679 I remember the first time I drank, and it was 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:15.280 Boone's farm, Strawberry Hill, and I was wretching. I was 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.000 practically throwing up every time I took a gulp of it. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.960 But it was an instantaneous like why on earth you 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.159 would continue doing something that was making you sick to 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.240 your stomach? But it seemed like instantly it was doing 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.879 something to my the way I felt, and it made 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:39.360 me feel like things were okay. And I started drinking 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:44.040 with a with a quite a I've drank like an amateur, 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.320 but I drank from that moment on and smoking and 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.320 um it gave me. There was a small group of 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.840 misfits and once you it was never going to fit 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.480 in with the normal kids. Ever, no way that was 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.359 never gonna happen. So having that little sort call of 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:05.520 people um that also smoke and got high and drank, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.639 that was kind of became the thing, and then I 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.359 didn't care about school. For the first time, I got 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:15.240 a c you know, and I didn't care. And okay, 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:20.040 did you perceive smoking and drinking is being bad things? Well, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.720 my mom's smoked, so I I when I was a kid, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.960 I would always like, like, you know, ranted heard it, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:31.080 quit smoking, quit smoking. Um. But yeah, once once I 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.399 did think it was bad. Yeah, it was bad because 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.320 we were we were across the street. We were considered, 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.240 you know, juveniles, and and we thought anybody that that 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.480 didn't drink or or smoke pot was a narc. We 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.359 called him narks. And yeah, I knew it was bad, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.879 but that was I wanted to be bad at that point, 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.920 because being bad when I was accepted and I had friends, 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.480 it was being bad. Did that give you further attention 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:01.960 from your mother? No? No, my mom, Uh, she didn't 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.560 know what I was doing. And when she found out, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.240 and the way she found out was I I passed 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.920 out in someone's front yard and a police cruiser found 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.200 me and drove me home and came to the door 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.960 and I they stood there at the front door when 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.320 my mom answered, and I crawled through the door. And 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.840 even that didn't cause a lecture. I mean, the only 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.439 thing she said was I hope you've learned your lesson, 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:33.080 And the lesson was like about getting drunk because my 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:34.960 mom wasn't a drinker. I think that was what she 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.480 thought the lesson was. But uh no, there was no 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:44.920 punishment ever. I was never punished ever. Okay, so does 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.320 the school notice that you're taking a left turn? No, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.240 so you're basically out there on your own. So you also, 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.119 and this is really in the book, along with drinking 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:02.560 and smoking comes some sexual experience. Insis. Yeah, I've been 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.600 really emotional lately, so I'm gonna try hard not to 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.399 like start blubbering because things are a little raw just 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.399 because of everything. So I'm trying not to do that, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.439 but some things are so for some time. One of 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:20.879 my most distinctive memories, uh and unpleasant things was the 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.240 fact that a young boy when I was when I 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.600 was very young, I guess twelve, it must have been twelve, 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.879 and he kind of cornered me. I was that his 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.880 sister was my friend. He cornered me. Uh, he paid 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.480 attention to me. As I wrote in the book, I 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.840 would go over there trying to avoid him, but get 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.959 his attention at the same time, and it was just 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.199 a matter of time before he said he loved me 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.919 and wanted to be with me and wanted to be 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.439 the first person and kind of just went at it 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.200 with me, pushed, pulled my bats down, and I didn't 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.560 know what was happening. I had no idea what he 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.639 was doing or if we did it. I thought maybe 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:10.280 we had done it regardless. He when that event was over, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.240 he went and told like everybody in the school, everybody, 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.919 and the next day everyone was talking about me and 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.960 pointing at me and laughing, and other guys guys were 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.639 coming up to me or yelling things at me. And 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.440 I wrote about it in the book and it's extremely painful. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.600 I went to my mom and tears and I told 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.119 her what had happened. And this is this is not 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.040 any exaggeration. My mom said, you didn't do anything wrong. 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.080 You did it with the wrong person. And her reason 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.840 for saying that was that she didn't want me to 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.280 be hung up about sex. She didn't want me to 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:53.480 think like, oh, I can't have sex anymore. She I mean, 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:58.159 it was just her intention was okay, it was pretty 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.400 pure as an intention, but it was just placing adult 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.239 concerns on a child. You know, It's like maybe if 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.080 I had been twenty five, she would be worried about 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:10.840 me not being hung up on sex, but to not 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.960 be worried about your little girl. So it was really painful, 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.960 it really I really amped up the drinking and stuff 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.840 after that. Well, I just know anybody in high school, 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.440 they would label people truly or falsely, and everybody would 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.920 know would be very painful for the individual involved. It 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.360 was extraordinarily painful, and especially because I had I had 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.720 friends that were guys, and then they would I thought 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.879 they were friends, and then they would tell people that 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.520 they had had sex with me and they hadn't, or 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.480 they would corner me and try to have sex and 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.320 I would I would fight them off and run off, 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:49.520 but they would say it happened anyway. So it was 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:54.439 probably the most painful time of my entire life. I 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.119 took my daughter ten years ago to see where I 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.800 grew up, and I drove with her to that where 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.159 we lived when this happened, and the school I went to, 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:07.000 and even my daughter said, I don't like it here. 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.159 I don't like it here. This makes me very this 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.120 this is a bad place. So what do you tell 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:19.320 your daughter about sex. Well, she has a very different 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.440