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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Kathy Valentine. You know where as

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Speaker 1: a member of the Go goes that you just wrote

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Speaker 1: an amazing book all I ever wanted. Kathy, Hi, what's that, Bob? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So why did you write the book? Well, there's the

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Speaker 1: big reason, and then there's the all the little reasons.

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Speaker 1: The big reason was I had wanted to write a

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Speaker 1: book for a long time. I felt confident that I

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Speaker 1: could write a good book. Um, I just felt like

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a deadline and I didn't have an assignment,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know if I had the discipline and

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Speaker 1: the motivation to actually do it every day. But I

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Speaker 1: got a book deal. So once I had a book deal,

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Speaker 1: you'd be crazy not to write a book. So there's

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Speaker 1: that reason. Okay, but a little bit slower. How did

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Speaker 1: you get a book deal? Um? I was doing the

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Speaker 1: Texas Book Festival. I was moderating a panel and ut Press.

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Speaker 1: A woman was there and she liked She started thinking,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Kathy would be interested in this. And

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Speaker 1: I had been thinking about it for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: I had done a Twitter memoir starting in like two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine that I got in trouble for and I

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Speaker 1: took it down, not in trouble from Twitter, but from

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Speaker 1: the rest of the go Goes. So I took it down,

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Speaker 1: but it was there long enough for me to see

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Speaker 1: that that um my story was resonating with people. So

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Speaker 1: I I just I had I felt confident, and yet

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Speaker 1: at the same time, I wasn't sure what the story

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Speaker 1: would be. I knew I wanted to be a memoir.

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Speaker 1: I had read several memoirs, and I thought, I got

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Speaker 1: a story. I can do that, and I just kind

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Speaker 1: of went from there. How much writing had you done

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Speaker 1: before you attempted the memoir, Well, I had been to

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Speaker 1: college student for many years. I was just I have

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Speaker 1: a tendency when life feels kind of like I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting anywhere, which happens a lot as an artist, um

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Speaker 1: or that I was spinning my wheels or just feeling lost.

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Speaker 1: I would take college classes, and a few years ago

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Speaker 1: I realized I was very close to having enough credits

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Speaker 1: to to get a degree, so I started working towards

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Speaker 1: an English degree because part of my big plan was

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Speaker 1: I will write a book during an m f A program,

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Speaker 1: because then it'll be like having a an assignment and

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Speaker 1: I know I'll do it, but I got the book

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Speaker 1: deal in between. Then. So in the course of writing

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Speaker 1: for college, I was getting a's, I was getting good feedback,

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Speaker 1: I was doing creative writing classes, turning in short stories.

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Speaker 1: My first idea was to do a collection of short stories,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't think anyone would buy me as a

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Speaker 1: legit writer, so I thought, and plus, with short stories

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Speaker 1: or literature, you're competing with every literary genius that's also

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Speaker 1: writing books, Whereas if I wrote a memoir, it's like

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Speaker 1: my story, I'm the one that's I'm the one that's

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Speaker 1: going to tell this story the best. So it kind

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Speaker 1: of was just a smart way to try to introduce

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Speaker 1: myself as a writer. Okay, there are a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: How did you end up moderating that piano at the

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Speaker 1: book fair? Well, I'm in Austin and i'm a I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of a semi big fish and a semi little pond,

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Speaker 1: so you know, opportunities float my way every now and then.

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Speaker 1: And the panel was with Jessica Hopper, who had put

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Speaker 1: out a book called the first Collection of Rock Criticism

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Speaker 1: by a female rock critic, and so I think their

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Speaker 1: idea was that it would be a little hook to

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Speaker 1: have the woman rock critic being moderated by the woman musician.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that was the idea. Okay, So the woman who

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Speaker 1: gave you the deal from the University of Texas Press,

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Speaker 1: had you known her previously? No? I had not, and

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Speaker 1: she it was just a fluke. She found me. I

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Speaker 1: had had a woman had babysat my kid like years before,

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Speaker 1: and she was working at UT Press. And this woman

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Speaker 1: who had signing Capabile at Ease went to that person

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Speaker 1: and said, did you say that you knew Kathy Valentine.

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Speaker 1: So the former babysitter contacted me. I I I contacted

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Speaker 1: Gianna and we met for coffee and Bob, I gotta

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Speaker 1: tell you. Within an hour, I started feeling like, I

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Speaker 1: think I've got a book deal. And I said, are

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Speaker 1: you giving me a wait? Are you giving me a

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Speaker 1: book deal? And I said, you haven't even seen how

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Speaker 1: I can write? And she said, oh, we're not worried

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Speaker 1: about it. We're not worried about it. And I asked, well,

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Speaker 1: can I send you some stuff? I had written some

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Speaker 1: scenes the scene about me getting an abortion when I'm

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Speaker 1: twelve years old. I had written about that I had

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Speaker 1: written about some of some things in my life, and

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Speaker 1: I sent her the stuff and she I loved the

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Speaker 1: answer because she wrote back and said, I want this book.

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Speaker 1: I want this book more than any book. And you

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Speaker 1: could probably get another book deal. We can't offer you

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Speaker 1: a lot where a nonprofit. And I said, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: are giving me a deal, and I don't have to

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Speaker 1: shop a manuscript, so I'll go with you T Press.

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Speaker 1: Plus I liked what they had been putting out. They

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Speaker 1: had put out a couple of pretty cool little music books. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to give the other reason for doing

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Speaker 1: the book, I might have covered it and all that blabbing. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's focus because you know there's the famous line on

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Speaker 1: the Springsteen Live album where his mother says, you can

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Speaker 1: always go back to college. Okay, there are most musicians,

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Speaker 1: if they went to college at all, certainly don't finish.

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Speaker 1: So when did you start taking college classes? I started, well,

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Speaker 1: I started when I was sixteen, and then they kicked

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Speaker 1: me out of community college because I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: high school transcript. I didn't return until I was in

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Speaker 1: l A. And I was just very frustrated. I thought

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Speaker 1: like every band I started just wouldn't get any traction.

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Speaker 1: And it just started feeling like everything I did didn't

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Speaker 1: go anywhere. And I thought, I mean, oh, I know

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Speaker 1: what happened. I I read a book, a historical fiction book,

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Speaker 1: and it was just a fluke. I found it on

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Speaker 1: an airplane, and my I felt like this feeling. I

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Speaker 1: was enthralled with ancient history. And I started devouring all

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Speaker 1: these books, like I mean practically like academic things about

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Speaker 1: ancient Rome. And that's what made me want to go

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Speaker 1: back to school. I thought, I want to I want

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Speaker 1: to get a I want to study ancient history. And

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Speaker 1: I started out with Latin because I wanted to read

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Speaker 1: all the texts in actual Latin. Of course, I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that being a classic major just means that's all

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Speaker 1: you do is a transcribe and transpose, uh stuff. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: but then I realized very quickly I had to take

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Speaker 1: basic college courses that I hadn't finished. So I taught

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Speaker 1: myself algebra to get myself up to a level of college. Well,

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Speaker 1: how did you teach yourself algebra? You just go buy

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Speaker 1: books at like Barnes and Nobles, Like teach yourself algebra,

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Speaker 1: High school Algebra one. I was doing it by trial

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Speaker 1: and error. Then I got in trouble. They sent a

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Speaker 1: report home to my parents whatever. So I didn't see

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Speaker 1: the learning curve is flat. I saw it as relatively steep.

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Speaker 1: Well I and so, but I just did it. It

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Speaker 1: was like I had to do it to get into

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Speaker 1: college level math. And I just kept finding these wonderful things.

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Speaker 1: Like when I got into college level math, I took statistics.

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Speaker 1: I thought, what a what a bore and this statistic

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Speaker 1: professor And it was at Glendale Community College and he

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Speaker 1: remains to this day my favorite instructor I've ever had.

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Speaker 1: I just sent him a book. We stay in touch,

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Speaker 1: and he made mathematics seem like the language of God.

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Speaker 1: He was phenomenal. And learning is like that. It's like

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Speaker 1: once you once you start feeling kind of fired up,

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Speaker 1: and and just that feeling of being enthralled is all

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Speaker 1: I know. I hadn't found that since music. I never

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Speaker 1: found anything that, you know, literally like made my palm

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Speaker 1: sweat and made me my heart race and learning something

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Speaker 1: and doing well. I'm I've always been kind of an

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Speaker 1: approval junkie. So getting an A and a class feels good.

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Speaker 1: It gave me self esteem and validation, and I just

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Speaker 1: I like it. I just like it. So I just

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Speaker 1: started kind of haphazardly taking courses and I went on

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Speaker 1: to Pasadena City College, and then I got married and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and when I got to Austin, I started resuming mainly

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Speaker 1: so I could get that into that m f A program.

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Speaker 1: But there's a mismiss, there's a mistake. I'm not actually

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Speaker 1: I've not graduated yet. I'm two classes away from having

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Speaker 1: my my college degree. So do you plan to take

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Speaker 1: those two classes? I do, because one of them is

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Speaker 1: just writing a thesis. It's even in this undergraduate undergrad program,

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Speaker 1: you need to write a capstone thesis about So that's

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Speaker 1: that's one thing. And the other thing I've been trying

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Speaker 1: to just avoid as much as possible, um like sitting

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Speaker 1: in a classroom. Like I've done a lot of portfolio

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Speaker 1: things where I put together proof that I know the

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Speaker 1: material well enough. I've done a lot of that and

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Speaker 1: whatever I could get away with taking UH online and

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Speaker 1: then of course I've had to sit in a lot

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Speaker 1: of classrooms. But if I can do it at home,

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Speaker 1: i'd rather because I like making my own schedule. Okay. Well,

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Speaker 1: as I say that you cover your life pretty well

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Speaker 1: in your book, but just to hit some of the highlights,

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Speaker 1: you have rather unique upbringing. Can you amplify that? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I did, UM, and I guess I would. The basic

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Speaker 1: thing I would say is that my mom, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I could have spun it very differently. I could have

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Speaker 1: made her just a post sixties free spirit um, but

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Speaker 1: she was okay. I had talked to her about being

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Speaker 1: truthful and honest about my my childhood and how I

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Speaker 1: was raised. But basically, my mom had me at twenty one.

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Speaker 1: She's from England. She she divorced my dad when being

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Speaker 1: married and living in America didn't meet her expectations, and

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Speaker 1: she was She was very um, I thought, fearless and brave.

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Speaker 1: What she was was pretty reckless and irresponsible. UM. I

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Speaker 1: was kind of left to raise myself. My earliest memory, UM,

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Speaker 1: not as an event, but as a feeling, was the

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Speaker 1: sense that I needed to be okay, that if I

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Speaker 1: wasn't okay, she wouldn't be okay, and the whole precarious

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Speaker 1: thing of our relationship and my my childhood would would

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Speaker 1: fall into the abyss. So I've I very much felt

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Speaker 1: like I always had to be okay. I carried that

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Speaker 1: with me most of my life. Now, does that mean

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Speaker 1: you were faking being okay? Or you will find a

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Speaker 1: way to make yourself both both You just your kid,

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Speaker 1: You figure it out. You know. It meant when it

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Speaker 1: meant because there was no other kids around, It meant

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Speaker 1: being able to amuse myself, entertain myself. It meant, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had no brothers and sisters. The only child I

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Speaker 1: learned how to read. I would read books. I was

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Speaker 1: just on my own a lot um. And when I

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Speaker 1: got to be a certain my dad was not present

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Speaker 1: in my life. I think it was very painful. It's

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Speaker 1: not conscious when you're a kid, you know. I just

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Speaker 1: felt like I don't think I felt like I mattered

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Speaker 1: very much to him, and uh I, um, I just

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Speaker 1: kind of got very uh as soon as I found

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Speaker 1: something that made me feel like I could fit in,

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Speaker 1: which was drinking. And I started drinking at twelve, and

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Speaker 1: I found a group of misfits that I could kind

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Speaker 1: of fit in with. And once I started feeling like

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Speaker 1: I fit in a little bit, um that was that

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Speaker 1: was how I coped. So we didn't want to go

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Speaker 1: into that right away, but I got a little okay,

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Speaker 1: but your you say your mother went to college. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my mother was a ut student. It took her twelve

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Speaker 1: years to get her degree. She uh was raising me

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Speaker 1: by herself. She had a boyfriend and she was obsessed

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Speaker 1: with for about a decade who really wouldn't give me

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Speaker 1: the time of day. So it was kind of dysfunctional.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted attention from him, never got it. She

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Speaker 1: was obsessed with him. I felt very very abandoned and

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Speaker 1: alone and that my job was to take care of myself.

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Speaker 1: That's what I felt. And did your mother graduate from college? Yes?

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Speaker 1: She did, so do you think that's an inspiration for you?

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Speaker 1: I think that the academic life has always been something

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Speaker 1: that I valued. My dad was a professor of economics.

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Speaker 1: Even though he wasn't a big part of my life,

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Speaker 1: I was proud of him because that's how he got

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Speaker 1: out of Lubbock, Texas and how he kind of separated

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Speaker 1: himself from the poverty that he grew up with was

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Speaker 1: through education. And school was just something until it became

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Speaker 1: something where socially it was too painful. It was something

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed. I enjoyed excelling at it. I enjoyed approval

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Speaker 1: and I enjoyed learning. So before you turned twelve and

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Speaker 1: you took a left field turn, um, did you so?

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Speaker 1: You did well in school? Were you popular? Did you

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Speaker 1: have friends? I was? Um? I was a straight A

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Speaker 1: student and very advanced and in terms of like the curriculum,

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Speaker 1: but I felt like an outsider. It wasn't so bad

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Speaker 1: at first because my mom she would work at a

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Speaker 1: job for like a year or two save up her

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Speaker 1: meager retirement, and we'd go to England and spend a

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Speaker 1: couple of months, and when the money ran out, we'd

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Speaker 1: come home and we'd live in a new apartment and

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Speaker 1: I'd go to a new school. So I was always

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Speaker 1: the new kid. But in the fifth grade, she decided

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Speaker 1: she wanted to give me something better. And that's when

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Speaker 1: it really got bad, because she moved to this this

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Speaker 1: very kind of lower middle class neighborhood wherever one was

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Speaker 1: quite conventional and it was seventy seventy one. The we

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Speaker 1: just stuck out like sword thumbs. And that's not what

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Speaker 1: you want to do when you're eleven. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to stick out, but we really did, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: remember being embarrassed. She would pull up in her sports

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Speaker 1: car and her mini dress, and I would be embarrassed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to be like everybody else, and it

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Speaker 1: was it wasn't gonna happen, just was not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So I was kind of a mess waiting to happen.

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Speaker 1: And you talked about your mother in the book. How

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Speaker 1: does your mother feel about the book? Because you're very

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Speaker 1: honest in the book. She's really I've always been her

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Speaker 1: most vicarious, pride of and proof that she didn't mess

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Speaker 1: everything up. Um, she feels very very proud of me.

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Speaker 1: I she I didn't want her to be the villain

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Speaker 1: of the story. I mean, I really try. I too

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Speaker 1: adhere to the conventions of storytelling and that there was

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Speaker 1: an arc, there was a protagonist that was me, that

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Speaker 1: overcame obstacles and came out a changed person. I knew.

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Speaker 1: I knew the conventions of storytelling enough to want that,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't want that villain in my story. And

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Speaker 1: I asked her about everything before I would write about it.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to write about you know, us

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Speaker 1: dating the drug dealers. I'm going to write about you

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Speaker 1: having an affair with a friend of mine, a teenage boy.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to write about this, and is that okay?

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Speaker 1: Is that okay with you? Because I wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: do anything hurtful. If she said it's not okay, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it. And oddly or ironically, her saying

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Speaker 1: yes and giving permission gave me a lens to see

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Speaker 1: all this stuff and through a different point of view,

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Speaker 1: because as I'm writing it, you're I'm appalled, like, how

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Speaker 1: could she do this? How could she do this? I'm

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Speaker 1: a mom, I can't imagine that, but okay. It made

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Speaker 1: me realize that it was more important to her that

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Speaker 1: I tell my story and tell it truthfully and honestly

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Speaker 1: than it was for her to be depicted as some

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Speaker 1: idealized great mom. And that made me realize how even

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Speaker 1: though some big pillars of parenting were missing, i e.

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Speaker 1: Guidance and boundaries, actual parenting, I realized that I had

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Speaker 1: gotten support and I had gotten love. And uh. She

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Speaker 1: said it's painful for her to read. It's painful, but

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Speaker 1: she said something funny. The other day. She again, she

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Speaker 1: said it was so painful. I thought I'd done a

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Speaker 1: really good job until I wrote that. So was there

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Speaker 1: anything you intentionally left out about the childhood about your mother.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, I I pretty much told most of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think I think I hit on

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Speaker 1: all the big ones. Okay, So what she anges? When

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Speaker 1: you're twelve, you're in this new neighborhood. How do you

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Speaker 1: fall in with a bad crowd? Shall Lisa? Well? I?

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Speaker 1: I remember the first time I drank, and it was

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Speaker 1: Boone's farm, Strawberry Hill, and I was wretching. I was

300
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Speaker 1: practically throwing up every time I took a gulp of it.

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Speaker 1: But it was an instantaneous like why on earth you

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Speaker 1: would continue doing something that was making you sick to

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Speaker 1: your stomach? But it seemed like instantly it was doing

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Speaker 1: something to my the way I felt, and it made

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00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,360
Speaker 1: me feel like things were okay. And I started drinking

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Speaker 1: with a with a quite a I've drank like an amateur,

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Speaker 1: but I drank from that moment on and smoking and

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Speaker 1: um it gave me. There was a small group of

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Speaker 1: misfits and once you it was never going to fit

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Speaker 1: in with the normal kids. Ever, no way that was

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Speaker 1: never gonna happen. So having that little sort call of

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Speaker 1: people um that also smoke and got high and drank,

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Speaker 1: that was kind of became the thing, and then I

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Speaker 1: didn't care about school. For the first time, I got

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Speaker 1: a c you know, and I didn't care. And okay,

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Speaker 1: did you perceive smoking and drinking is being bad things? Well,

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Speaker 1: my mom's smoked, so I I when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: I would always like, like, you know, ranted heard it,

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Speaker 1: quit smoking, quit smoking. Um. But yeah, once once I

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Speaker 1: did think it was bad. Yeah, it was bad because

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Speaker 1: we were we were across the street. We were considered,

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Speaker 1: you know, juveniles, and and we thought anybody that that

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Speaker 1: didn't drink or or smoke pot was a narc. We

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Speaker 1: called him narks. And yeah, I knew it was bad,

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Speaker 1: but that was I wanted to be bad at that point,

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Speaker 1: because being bad when I was accepted and I had friends,

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Speaker 1: it was being bad. Did that give you further attention

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Speaker 1: from your mother? No? No, my mom, Uh, she didn't

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Speaker 1: know what I was doing. And when she found out,

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Speaker 1: and the way she found out was I I passed

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Speaker 1: out in someone's front yard and a police cruiser found

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Speaker 1: me and drove me home and came to the door

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Speaker 1: and I they stood there at the front door when

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Speaker 1: my mom answered, and I crawled through the door. And

335
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 1: even that didn't cause a lecture. I mean, the only

336
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,439
Speaker 1: thing she said was I hope you've learned your lesson,

337
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Speaker 1: And the lesson was like about getting drunk because my

338
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: mom wasn't a drinker. I think that was what she

339
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: thought the lesson was. But uh no, there was no

340
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 1: punishment ever. I was never punished ever. Okay, so does

341
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: the school notice that you're taking a left turn? No,

342
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 1: so you're basically out there on your own. So you also,

343
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Speaker 1: and this is really in the book, along with drinking

344
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: and smoking comes some sexual experience. Insis. Yeah, I've been

345
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: really emotional lately, so I'm gonna try hard not to

346
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: like start blubbering because things are a little raw just

347
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: because of everything. So I'm trying not to do that,

348
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Speaker 1: but some things are so for some time. One of

349
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Speaker 1: my most distinctive memories, uh and unpleasant things was the

350
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: fact that a young boy when I was when I

351
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: was very young, I guess twelve, it must have been twelve,

352
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Speaker 1: and he kind of cornered me. I was that his

353
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 1: sister was my friend. He cornered me. Uh, he paid

354
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: attention to me. As I wrote in the book, I

355
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: would go over there trying to avoid him, but get

356
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,959
Speaker 1: his attention at the same time, and it was just

357
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: a matter of time before he said he loved me

358
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Speaker 1: and wanted to be with me and wanted to be

359
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Speaker 1: the first person and kind of just went at it

360
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: with me, pushed, pulled my bats down, and I didn't

361
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: know what was happening. I had no idea what he

362
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: was doing or if we did it. I thought maybe

363
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: we had done it regardless. He when that event was over,

364
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: he went and told like everybody in the school, everybody,

365
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: and the next day everyone was talking about me and

366
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: pointing at me and laughing, and other guys guys were

367
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 1: coming up to me or yelling things at me. And

368
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: I wrote about it in the book and it's extremely painful.

369
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: I went to my mom and tears and I told

370
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Speaker 1: her what had happened. And this is this is not

371
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: any exaggeration. My mom said, you didn't do anything wrong.

372
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Speaker 1: You did it with the wrong person. And her reason

373
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: for saying that was that she didn't want me to

374
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Speaker 1: be hung up about sex. She didn't want me to

375
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: think like, oh, I can't have sex anymore. She I mean,

376
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: it was just her intention was okay, it was pretty

377
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 1: pure as an intention, but it was just placing adult

378
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 1: concerns on a child. You know, It's like maybe if

379
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: I had been twenty five, she would be worried about

380
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: me not being hung up on sex, but to not

381
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: be worried about your little girl. So it was really painful,

382
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: it really I really amped up the drinking and stuff

383
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: after that. Well, I just know anybody in high school,

384
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: they would label people truly or falsely, and everybody would

385
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: know would be very painful for the individual involved. It

386
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: was extraordinarily painful, and especially because I had I had

387
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: friends that were guys, and then they would I thought

388
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: they were friends, and then they would tell people that

389
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: they had had sex with me and they hadn't, or

390
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: they would corner me and try to have sex and

391
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: I would I would fight them off and run off,

392
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: but they would say it happened anyway. So it was

393
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: probably the most painful time of my entire life. I

394
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: took my daughter ten years ago to see where I

395
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: grew up, and I drove with her to that where

396
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: we lived when this happened, and the school I went to,

397
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: and even my daughter said, I don't like it here.

398
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: I don't like it here. This makes me very this

399
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: this is a bad place. So what do you tell

400
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: your daughter about sex. Well, she has a very different

401
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: childhood than mine, and in the era, I mean, it's

402
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: very different than the seventies. I mean, as as as

403
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: terrible as some of this sounds, you have to be

404
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: of a certain age to understand what the seventies were like,

405
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: and coming right after the free love, uh era of

406
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: the sixties, and it was very there was a lot

407
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: of debauchery and openness um without the without the freeness,

408
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: you know. Um, so it's kind of like it was

409
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: a very different era. I haven't I haven't had to. Uh.

410
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I've talked to her about what happened to

411
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: me a little bit. It makes her very sad. You know,

412
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: we're really close, and my daughter is really kind of

413
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: protective of me, and the idea of me being hurt

414
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: or being treated badly upsets her a lot. So how

415
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: old is she today? Seventeen? Has she read the book?

416
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: She's only read parts of it, and she's avoided those parts.

417
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: She's read some of the other things, and uh, she's

418
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: really proud. I think she'll read it when she's ready.

419
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: I don't think she's She's always been very good at

420
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: self regulating herself in terms of knowing what she's ready for. So, um,

421
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm just letting her take the lead on it. And

422
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: where is she on the continuum between wild and crazy

423
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: and book smart and you know, nerd, what kind of

424
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: kid is she? She's amazing. She's all she is thinking

425
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: about is going to college and where she wants to

426
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: go and how to make sure her applications are great.

427
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: And she's uh, she has admitted to trying alcohol a

428
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: couple of times and says it's not her thing. And

429
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: she's never known me to drink or smoke. I mean,

430
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: I've been sober thirty one year, so uh, but I've

431
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: always I've planted my little seeds here and there. Like

432
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: if we or somewhere and somebody's like obnoxiously drunk, I

433
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of can just go, oh, that's what happens sometimes

434
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: if you can't handle your liquor, you know it's going

435
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: to get it in when I can let her make

436
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: her own judgments. Okay, Now, since it's in the book

437
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: and you mentioned it earlier, ultimately you do get pregnant

438
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: at twelve, so can you tell us a little bit

439
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: more about them? Yeah, So after that horrible event where

440
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: pretty much my my course was charted. I think the

441
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: way I said in the book, it was like the

442
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: stories he told started becoming the story of my life,

443
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: even though there was not any truth. And some older

444
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: boys started coming around to our house. My mom worked,

445
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: I was a latchkey kid, My mom was beautiful, and

446
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: there was just something. We started being kind of a novelty,

447
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: like the wild girl with the beautiful mom and she's

448
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: not home in the day. So teenage boys much older

449
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: than me started hanging around. Um, one of them would

450
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: bring that would bring records over, and I wrote in

451
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: a book like bonding over music and bands is where

452
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: I really started feeling like I was connecting with people.

453
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: That was the first time nothing else had ever connected

454
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: me with people of my own age who are around

455
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: my own age. So, UM, one guy, he he, we

456
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: just had sex. And it was so painful that I

457
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: realized that the first time that the guy hadn't even

458
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: done anything, that he basically just poked around because and

459
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I mean, even at that age, and I

460
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: really like, I've had to listen to this ship all

461
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: year long and uh, and nothing even happened. So that

462
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: was just ridiculous. But it turns out that first time

463
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: that it did work and I did have sex. I

464
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: was very unlucky and very fertile and got pregnant and

465
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: found out within a few months. And this was, uh

466
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: it was two years before Roe v. Wade. We tried

467
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get this pregnancy aborted

468
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: and couldn't do it in Austin. My mom spoke to

469
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: some doctors. They said there was a clinic in California,

470
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: and that became my first trip to California, Uh, to

471
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: to have an abortion when I was twelve years old,

472
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: and I wrote about it, I think, pretty gritty, real

473
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: uh terms, and uh, it's hard. I was nervous about

474
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: writing about abortion. It's such a it's such a polarized issue.

475
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: If I could have have I had written about it

476
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: in the eighties, it would have been like, no big deal.

477
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: But now you just say the word and it's like,

478
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'm probably gonna get like a zillion uh

479
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: messages about being a baby killer or something. So it

480
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: was hard. It was scary to write about it. But

481
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: having an abortion at that age obviously the a lot

482
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: of things happened to you at a young age a

483
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: little different from the average citizen. UH did it. How

484
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: emotionally did it affect you having an abortion or it

485
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 1: was all such a crazy time, It was all mixed together.

486
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: I by that time I was very uh adept at

487
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: not feeling my feelings. So what I saw it as

488
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: was a problem that had to go away. That was

489
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: my my most uh driving sent it about. It was

490
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: just that I just want this problem to go away,

491
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: I said. There was a planned parenthood social worker. She

492
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: told my mom. She asked me how I felt about it,

493
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 1: and I just said, I want to I want to

494
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: deal with it, That's all I said. And she told

495
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: my mom, I was obviously repressing my feelings, and you know, yeah,

496
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: of course I was repressing my feelings. That's like, whatever

497
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: it took to survive and be okay was what what

498
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: I did. And um when I what I remember more

499
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: than anything was the relief, the relief after because I

500
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: was put under I went under general anesthesia, and when

501
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: I came out of it, there was that glorious moment

502
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: where I was a clean slate and remembered nothing, and

503
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: then I remembered everything, and that was quickly just I

504
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: was washed over with this enormous relief that this horrible

505
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: problem horrible problem. I mean, I had never heard of

506
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: an a Shan. I didn't know anybody that else I

507
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: knew I did. It was not like my girlfriends and

508
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: I were sitting around talking about having sex. I didn't

509
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: really have any girlfriends, and the ones I did have,

510
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: I don't think we're doing that. So I was really

511
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: glad it was over with and I went on the

512
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: pill from twelve when I was on the pill. And

513
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: now you mentioned that there was a time when your

514
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: mother was dating a friend and then when you were

515
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 1: both dating the drug dealers, Uh, can you tell us

516
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, well, I had one one of my

517
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: good friends. Um, well, he he was somebody I thought

518
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: really happy about. And we connected on Facebook not too

519
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: long ago, and I said, what do you remember from

520
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: that time and and he said, I remember you were

521
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: funny as ship. You're so funny. And then I said,

522
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: I know what happened with you and my mom. And

523
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: he just ignored it. He just ignored it. He wouldn't

524
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk about it, because what the deal is, my

525
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: mom had an affair with this guy. I had no

526
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: idea at the time. I cannot even imagine how it

527
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: started or how it happened. In the book, I kind

528
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: of pieced together that it probably started when I went

529
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: to visit my dad um. When I came back, they

530
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: were hanging out together, and it kind of crossed my mind,

531
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: like why would my friend and my mom be hanging

532
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: out without me being there? And I have to say

533
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: she was smoking pot by then with me and my friends.

534
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: My mom was smoking pot with me and my friends.

535
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: And she didn't tell me about this affair until my twenties,

536
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: and we were high, We were high on drugs. We

537
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: were like nin nin n like talking like you do

538
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: all night or and she said, you know, well, you

539
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: know I had an affair with James Hits, a pseudonym,

540
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: And I said, and I was shocked. But at that point,

541
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm still in my twenties, and as I wrote in

542
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: my book, like she was my pal, Like you don't

543
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: get mad at your pal for having an affair with

544
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: your other pal. And it came up again when in sobriety,

545
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: and I think I brought it up, and then it

546
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: came up again. And the cool thing about writing a

547
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: memoir is that I get the luxury of sometimes going

548
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: into the present and being able to write with the

549
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: reflection and the insight. And there's this scene in the

550
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: book where I'm saying to my mom because I'm looking

551
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: at my daughter and I'm like coming, I said, what

552
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: were you thinking? It's just the enormity of it really

553
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: sunk in from writing about it was and I said,

554
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: I could have been taken away and put in foster care.

555
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: You know, I always say, oh, my childhood was crazy,

556
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: but at least I wasn't in foster care or or

557
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: beaten with a broom or locked in the closet. But

558
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: it could have happened. I could have been put in

559
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: foster care. And this realization was very enormal. It was,

560
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: it was profound. And I said, what were you thinking?

561
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: You had you were smoking pot with us, You could

562
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: have been thrown in jail, you had an affair, you

563
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: could have been charged with statutory rape. What were you thinking?

564
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: And I got to write that scene in my book

565
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: because as I was questioning her this, I realized that

566
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: I was wanting her to say, yeah, I don't know

567
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: what I was thinking. It was wrong. I made a mistake,

568
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: and no she didn't. She didn't. She's a deflector. Okay,

569
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: then what about the drug dealers? They were dating. That

570
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: was a happy period. Um My mom met a young

571
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: drug dealer. Are our closest friends. By this time, I'm

572
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: out of public school. We're done. We don't fit into

573
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: this scenario at all. My mom found a commune, hippie

574
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: commune that had an uncredited school, So I'm going there

575
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: for the first time. I'm happy as can be. Uh,

576
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want at this school, and

577
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: you can learn whatever you want. Most kids want to learn,

578
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: so it's not a disaster. Um and I and guitar there.

579
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: So but I'm doing this by the day, but in

580
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: the evenings, we're spending time with this couple and their

581
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: drug dealers, and I think they're fabulous. They love me,

582
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: they love my mom. They live in a fancy house.

583
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: Um and one of their friends, one of their dealer friends,

584
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: started dating my mom. He was a young twenty four

585
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: year old. He was an escapee from Leavenworth Prison. He

586
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: was a dope dealer and a biker and a junkie

587
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: and charismatic and kind of wild and fun. And it

588
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: was exciting to know him and these people. And he's

589
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: the first person that brought an electric guitar and an

590
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: app into my house. He's the person that showed me

591
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: the very first time I plugged a guitar into an

592
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: app was to this guy. So I think of him

593
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: with very warm feelings. Um. But one day his friend,

594
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: his partner pulled up a thirty six year old I'm fifteen,

595
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: and uh I started an affair with him. My mom's

596
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: with the other guy. And I write about this time

597
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: because it really felt like, um, well, she was my

598
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: best friend at that point in time, and it was

599
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: it was really being lifted out of a place where

600
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, we just my mom had such a mindset

601
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: of the rules don't apply to her. She doesn't be her.

602
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: She's much more forward thinking and much more out of

603
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: the box. And these straight people in this neighborhood or

604
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: this convention that the rules don't apply to my mom

605
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: still to this day. So um, she loved, you know,

606
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: having these kind of counterculture. And when I say drug dealers,

607
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean I'm talking big time, like flying private jets

608
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: around with kilos of of pot and you know, thousands

609
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars and it was it was made

610
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: of on a major scale. So yeah, that happened. And

611
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: when I wrote about this, I try not to do

612
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: it in a sensational way. It's just it's it's pretty

613
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: matter of fact. It just that you do though it's

614
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: not sensationalized in the book. And Okay, let's get a

615
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: couple of things down. At what point do you how

616
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: old are you when you stopped living with your mother? Um?

617
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: I moved out from her, probably at age seventeen, and

618
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: for money to find a place. What's that? What do

619
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: you do for money? For rent? Oh? I got jobs.

620
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: I got jobs from We were poor. If I wanted anything,

621
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: I had to get a job and work for it.

622
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: So I had been. I was babysitting when I was

623
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: nine years old for money to buy the toys I wanted.

624
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: I I had started. Um, I started working. Um what

625
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: was my first job? I wrote about it? But anyway,

626
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: I the smartest thing I did was take the United

627
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 1: States Civil Service exam and I could get jobs at

628
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: at the the Census Bureau, the I R S they had.

629
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: They had a center in Austin, so I was getting

630
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: well paid. I worked in a bear distributing distribution warehouse. Um.

631
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: I just I was working. I was making money. So

632
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: when I moved from her, I was working at a

633
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: health spa okay, So was there always music in your

634
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: household or how did you get turned onto music? Music

635
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: was was not a big part. We didn't even have

636
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: a stereo until I got one. But what it was

637
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: was like the jukeboxes, the TV shows, UM, the table

638
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: jukeboxes at the coffee shop, UM. And once I got

639
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: and it was in school too, and the radio. I

640
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: was just your average you know. And I didn't have

641
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: brothers or sisters like bringing records home and stuff, so

642
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: I really was dependent on the radio. One of my

643
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: favorite stories was writing about how when I heard Cream

644
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: Sunshine of Your Love and in Lubbock, Texas, I was

645
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: sent there for the summer. My sixteen year old cousin

646
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: was playing this song and it was the first time

647
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: I had realized that music elicited a response that was

648
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: quite different than what I was used to, more pop

649
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: music and singing along and feeling uplifted, and this was

650
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: a more primal response. And it kind of instilled in

651
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: me of real love of kind of bluesy rock for

652
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: for for from then on. But music had just always

653
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: been there for this just like most people, I think

654
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: it it soothed me, It took me out of myself

655
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: and when there was rock stars that I looked up to,

656
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: that was key, because you know, I'm in a in

657
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: this place where I don't fit in and there's no

658
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: way I'm going to fit in. And then I would

659
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: see David Bowie or Mark boland or and I would

660
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: just go, there's no way these guys would fit in either,

661
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: And it just it felt like it felt like it

662
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: was evidence that there was a world away from where

663
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: I was so between music and then my mom kind

664
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: of carding me off to angle in every couple of

665
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: years or so, I really held on tight to that

666
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: this was temporary. This was a temporary place. This horrible,

667
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: painful adolescents and these mean, disgusting, terrible people, and they

668
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: really were. They were bad people, bad kids. Um, We're temporary,

669
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: and music was was how I was gonna Once I

670
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: started finding music as being a musician, that I was like,

671
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: this is how I'm going to get put as much

672
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: my ledge between me and this circumstances as I can now.

673
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: They teach you how to play guitar at the alternative school.

674
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: At what point do you say, Hey, I want to

675
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: play guitar, I want to form a band. Well, I

676
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: didn't think of it until I was drawn to music

677
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: from a young age. I mean I felt a pull.

678
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: I joined the orchestra. I had taken piano lessons, but um,

679
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: when I started playing guitar, it felt like the right instrument.

680
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: But it didn't occur to me that I could be

681
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: in a band. I had never seen a woman in

682
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: a band other than being a rock singer like Janice

683
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: Joplin or I think in Austin we had a we

684
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: had a great Marsha Ball was from New Orleans, a

685
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: great keyboard player, but other than her, I had never

686
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: seen women and bands playing electric instruments or drums or

687
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: anything and just didn't think it was done. Um. It

688
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: was going to England with my mom. I was I

689
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: was fourteen, and there's three channels on the BBC and uh,

690
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: Top of the Pops came on and Susie Quatrow was on,

691
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: and it literally was a life changing, life defining moment

692
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: to see her. It was like, Oh, okay, and this

693
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: is this is what this is what I wanted. From

694
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: that moment, I knew I wanted to do music. I

695
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: knew I wanted to have a band, and I wanted

696
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: to have a band with other gals like me. I

697
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: wanted it to be, and part of that was because

698
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen anyone else doing it, and I wanted

699
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: to do something extraordinary. I wanted to feel like I

700
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: mattered and that I had value because I didn't feel

701
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: like that inside, and doing something extraordinary seemed like the

702
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: way to do it. And I thought, I'm going to

703
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: be the best guitar player ever. It's gonna be. It

704
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 1: sounds so silly now, but I I was like, there's

705
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: gonna be Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck,

706
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: and Kathy Valentine. That's what I thought. And uh so

707
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: I was really excited after I saw Susie and had

708
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: that become very crystal clear what I was, what I

709
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: was meant to do in life, and so what were

710
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: the steps you took to achieve that. I came back

711
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: and I pretty much twisted my best friend and his

712
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: arm into becoming a drummer. And I was still at

713
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: my commune school and there was other kids played, so

714
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: we put together a band right away, and we got

715
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: access to playing right away because the school was dirt

716
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: poor and always was having benefits and local Austin bands

717
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: would play at the benefits, So we got to do that,

718
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,439
Speaker 1: and I was often running. From the minute I saw

719
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: Susie Quatro, I knew what I wanted to do, and

720
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: I was off and running. Now you paint a picture

721
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: of really seeing everybody in the clubs in Austin. Now,

722
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: was this after seeing Susie quatrow that you felt, Hey,

723
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: I want to go see these musicians. What what instigated that? Well,

724
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: music has always been a big part of Austin. You know,

725
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: way before it branded itself as um as a music city.

726
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: It was just by by nature and organically one so

727
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: um and my mom was a young either college student

728
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: or you know, kind of hip person. So I had

729
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: gone around to certain places there was you know, there

730
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: was a lot of music around in the clubs, but

731
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: it was really lax. Once once I started wanting to

732
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: kind of go out and see bands, I was doing that.

733
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: I would say probably from the age of um, sixteen sixteen.

734
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: I was going to clubs and uh, really really grateful

735
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: for what I got to be exposed to in Austin

736
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: and the variety and the spectrum of music and just

737
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: how how lax it was. I think they just figured

738
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be there if you shouldn't be. And also

739
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: the Armadilla World Headquarters was like this amazing venue and

740
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: my one of my mom's friends worked there, so we

741
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: would go all the time. They had a big beer

742
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: garden and then it would be easy just to kind

743
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: of go wander in. They had concerts all the time. Uh,

744
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: huge variety. I mean they might have Captain Beefheart one

745
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: night and then they'd have the new Writers at the

746
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: Purple Stage the next night. And I didn't even know

747
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: what I was going to see half the time, but

748
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: I had excess because of my mom's friends. So uh,

749
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: it was just it was really great. It was really

750
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: really great to see such a variety of music and

751
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: to be a musician, you know, it had a huge

752
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: effect give us the arc of your time in Austin

753
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: playing So you had bands, were they playing gigs? Were

754
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: you making any money? Um? Well, after starting that first

755
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: band at at Greenbrier School, I decided number one, I

756
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: was tired of going to school because by that I

757
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: was sixteen. Uh, A lot of the older kids were

758
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: moving on anyway, and it meant getting up really early

759
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: to go to school, and I was going out and

760
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: staying out late. So I stopped doing that started going

761
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: to college. At age age sixteen, I lied to get

762
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: into college. I just said that I had was a

763
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: high school graduate. It took them two years to figure

764
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: it out that I wasn't. So I had my college classes,

765
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: I I had my his car, and I had my

766
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: friend that I had met in the same school, Greenbrier.

767
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: She and I were We started having bands and we

768
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: we just networked. We went out, we we started. We

769
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: found a female bass player. I couldn't believe it. And

770
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: because we were a trio, we decided we were going

771
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: to be like zz Top um zz Top was that

772
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: was Texas is um New York Dolls or Iggy and

773
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: that was our regional you know cool band was easy

774
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: Top and uh so that our first songs were zz

775
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: Top songs, you know. Um. I had been practicing fiendishly

776
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: from the minute I learned guitar. I mean, I remember,

777
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: my first goal was to be up in the pantheon

778
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: of guitar greats. So I practiced like crazy. I had

779
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: a handicap because I'm left handed and I played like

780
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: a right handed person, so my right hand was never

781
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: going to have the technical finesse of of a right

782
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: hand in person. But I could play chuck Berry chords

783
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: great and play like you know, jumping jack flash and

784
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: all that stuff really well. The left hand down down called.

785
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: So we're doing zazy top songs and UMU a few

786
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: other covers and guys are and in Austin, musicians are

787
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: really supportive. And this was a pattern that emerged when

788
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: I'd never thought about this um but as I was

789
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: writing the book, I started seeing this pattern come out

790
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: where the musicians, the guys were so supportive, there was

791
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: no condescension. Whether it was a virtuoso like Eric Johnson

792
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: or a rock and roller guy would like you know,

793
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: playing in a covers band. They they were so h

794
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: supportive and and like here that's a crumby amp you have,

795
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: let's go get you a good amp. Or okay, here

796
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: I've heard about this person. I hear are so and

797
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: So's girlfriend plays bass and so I had a lot

798
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: of support for the guys. Really really grateful for that.

799
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: I think it could have. I wouldn't be surprised if

800
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: I didn't go forward with that whole plan. If I

801
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: wasn't getting that kind of validation, I wouldn't be surprised

802
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: if it wouldn't have crushed me, but maybe not. Maybe

803
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: I was determined enough. So UM, that first band was

804
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: a trio. Right around the same time, Doug Psalm, who

805
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: was one of my very favorite performers, um he I

806
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: would go see him every week. He had a standing

807
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: gig and it was really there wasn't like a velvet

808
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: rope or a v I P room or anything. You

809
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: just everyone was hanging out and he found out that Uh,

810
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: I played guitar, and he invited me to sit in

811
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: with his band. So I got to play with Doug

812
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: Psalm on a stage and it was terrifying. But I

813
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: was the most proud I'd ever been. So I felt like, um,

814
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: everyone was on my side. You know, I really felt

815
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: like everyone was on my side. It was going to happen,

816
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: and UM. One thing led to oh, we weren't doing

817
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: professional stuff, not really at that point. We were sorry,

818
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: I lost your question. We UM. We'd get gigs usually

819
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: because of the kindness of guys saying you guys can

820
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: open for us, and maybe the first gig was like

821
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: six songs, no big deal, cover songs. It wasn't really

822
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: writing that many songs by that time. But then my

823
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: mom wants to go to England again. So at that

824
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 1: point I decided this is where I'm going to make

825
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: it as in England, and I'm seventeen and go off

826
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: to England join a band there. Um don't while while

827
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: I'm there, punk rock is happening, and I started getting

828
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: hip to punk rocks. I didn't know about the precursors

829
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 1: here in America. I was still into my zz top

830
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: and my Rolling Stones and stuff I wasn't. I wasn't

831
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: following any of the early uh I didn't know who

832
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: the m C five were. I didn't know who the

833
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: New York Dolls were. I didn't know who John Kale was.

834
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't real big into lou Reid or the Velvet

835
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: Underground except for the radio hits. So I didn't have

836
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: any pathway to punk rock till I was in Austin

837
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: I mean till in London. Sorry. And when I got

838
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: kicked out of that band due to a stomach ache

839
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: and then finding someone way better than me, it was

840
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: again a crystal moment. It was like, uh ha, not

841
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: only do I not have to play as good as

842
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: Jeff Beck to start a band and practice for the

843
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: next you know, three years, six hours a day and

844
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: be like, really profession proficient, I can do this now,

845
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: I can do this now. And I went back to Austinson.

846
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to start the first punk band in Austin.

847
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. And how was the reception?

848
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: It was blue people's minds. Uh. We quickly we started

849
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: a scene and other bands came quickly in our wake. Uh.

850
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: I started that band. The first gig was in January.

851
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: Two weeks after seeing this ex Pistols at Randy's RODEOU

852
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: did our first gig and by August we were moving

853
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: to l A because we were convinced we were going

854
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: to make it um. In that time, I had also

855
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: seen the Runaways, who I for the first time I

856
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: saw that there was this is before I went to England,

857
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: you know. I saw, oh, there's other girls in my

858
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: age that are doing this. I started feeling this urgency

859
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: like I'm not the first one. I'm not the only one.

860
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: Uh this this I got to go somewhere else to

861
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: really make this happen. So getting to l A and

862
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: taking the violators, which we thought we were going to

863
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: make it in the in the business, you know, but

864
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: you up quite a really dreary, upsetting picture of moving

865
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: to l A. You're not twenty one. A friend moves

866
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: in with a friend, they go to clubs, your left out.

867
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: You have some really rat hole apartment in Hollywood. What

868
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: was going through your mind? Then? It was misery? Um.

869
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: For one thing, the girl that that I moved out

870
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: there where there was three of us in the band,

871
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: and one was very responsible, Carla Olsen, and she wasn't

872
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: going to move until she had a job because she's

873
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: a grown up and I'm a kid. Still, I'm a

874
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 1: kid until I'm thirty basically, so just let's just take

875
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 1: that for assumption. And so she doesn't get a moving

876
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: to move until she has a job. My my very

877
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: best friend who had started playing with, who I had

878
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: been in all my bands with, she basically abandoned me.

879
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: She had a fake I du she had a better

880
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: apartment she could hang out in, and I was incredibly lonely, um,

881
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: very poor. I I have letters, I've seen letters that

882
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: I wrote to my mom. I'm begging her for forty

883
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 1: dollars um, probably not getting it. Um. The thing that

884
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: that came to me in that time was songs. That

885
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: was the first time I pulled out my get and

886
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: I had written a couple of stupid songs, but this

887
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: was the first time I pulled out my guitar and

888
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: wrote a song because I needed to expressed, like the

889
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: the external and internal feelings that I was having. And

890
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: I was bored. You know, I didn't I didn't have

891
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: a TV, I couldn't go out, I didn't have any friends,

892
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody. So it was actually a really

893
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: key moment to discover songwriting in that time. But what

894
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: was going through my mind was I was very angry.

895
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: I was resentful at my friend. And I also have

896
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: like little comic strips that I would write, like I

897
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: would write these like these terrible like little comic strips

898
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 1: about me, you know, me saying terrible things and drawing

899
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: these little pictures of I mean, I was really angry,

900
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: really angry at her. It was I think the first

901
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: time I really felt betrayed and abandoned. So you're there,

902
00:52:54,640 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: and how long do you ever think about giving up God? Oh,

903
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: that that did never occurred to me. Everything was just

904
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: a matter of time. And when Carla came out, you know,

905
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: she's got a good job. She we get a good apartment,

906
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: and then I've got a mate. I was so reliant

907
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: on having like that, that partner. I don't know if

908
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: I was capable on my own. It's like I needed

909
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: a sidekick, or not a sidekick, that's the that's a

910
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: demeaning term. It's I needed a partner. I felt like

911
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it on my own. And starting with Maryland,

912
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: the first person I had a band with it, it

913
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: set up a pattern that I pretty much stuck with

914
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: most of my life, which was, you know, maybe either

915
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: not thinking I could do it on my own, or

916
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: maybe just feeling like two people. I don't know. I

917
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: don't know what it was, but I I needed that.

918
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how far I would have gone on

919
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: my own. Okay, from the moment moved to l A

920
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: before the holiday gig with the Go Goes. How long

921
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: a period of time is that moved to l A

922
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: and Um August of seventy eight, and I'm not in

923
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: the Go Goes. I don't play my first gig until

924
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: eight nine New Year's Eve nineteen eight, So for two

925
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: years I'm in the text tons. Okay, I have I

926
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: have a job. I got a job at at a

927
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: Transamerica Real Estate Tax service on Beverly and Third, right

928
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: across from where the Beverly Center is now. And it

929
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: was an office job, and Carla let me borrow her

930
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: nice clothes so I could turn up to my office job.

931
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: And at night we'd go to the Capitol Records Capitol

932
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: Records swap meet, which is where everyone hung out and

933
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: where you met musicians, and it was it was like

934
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: it was, it was the place could be. We did

935
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: that every month. We'd drive around and and and the

936
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: car with a X pack of beer listening to Rodney

937
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: on the Rock. We were just like so keen to

938
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: to make it and find out where we fit in

939
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: this incredible music scene, this organic, amazing music scene that

940
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: just had every band had this character and individuality, and

941
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: it really echoed what I'd grown up with in Austin,

942
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: where I was used to country honk and to Hano

943
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: bands and blues bands and rock and roll bands and

944
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: cosmic cowboy. I was like all that stuff. And then

945
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: in in l A there's rockabilly bands, and there's the

946
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: Blasters and the kind of scrappier punk bands and the

947
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: artsy punk bands and the new way of skinny tie

948
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: guys and the power pop bands. There was so many,

949
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: so much good music, and we just I couldn't wait

950
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: to be part of it, could not wait. Okay, so

951
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: in those two years you're optimistic, Oh yeah, okay, So

952
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: you get the call to sub for the Goes because

953
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: their bass player can't do it. Do you see this

954
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: as a giant opportunity? You say, well, this is just

955
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: something to do. Well it was. What happened was I

956
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: had quit the text Tones because after uh over a

957
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: year or maybe a year and a half, almost two years,

958
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: I felt like we weren't moving up the ranks as

959
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: quickly as like the plim Souls were, and other bands

960
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: that seemed to be like The Knack and uh, all

961
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: the bands that were our peers were seemed to be

962
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: moving forward and we weren't, and we had opportunities. Cool

963
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: things happened. I mean, l A was like this, this

964
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: constant carrot dangling in front of you, and it was

965
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: just around the corner and anything could happen, and sometimes

966
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: anything did happen. But I just thought I started to

967
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: feel like it was two bands and one so I

968
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: had quit. I was out of the text Tones and

969
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: it was the first time since I had been sixteen really,

970
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: And I say that like at some lifetime, but it

971
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: feels like a lifetime back then. Yeah. It was the

972
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: first time in four years that I hadn't been in

973
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: a band, and I was really at loose ends and

974
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 1: I didn't have that partner that I had relied on,

975
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, what am I gonna do? Well,

976
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: phil Seymour is going to do my song, and I'll

977
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: just do something and I'll put a new band together.

978
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: But I was kind of like, for the first time

979
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: a little bit like, well, what's going to happen here?

980
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: And that's when I ran into Charlotte from the Go

981
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: Gos and I was at the whiskey and she um

982
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: approached me and I knew who the Go Goes were.

983
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 1: They were popular by then. They they had The first

984
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: time I saw them, I dismissed them. I thought they

985
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: were amateurs. I wasn't mean about it. I like seeing

986
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: women in bands, but I just said they got a

987
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: ways to go. I thought I was a season pro.

988
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: Fast forward a year and a half later, they've played probably,

989
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, at least a hundred gigs um, and they've

990
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: gone to England and they've got a drummer that kicks ass,

991
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: and they're a very different band, so I'm aware that

992
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: they're not the same band that I kind of dismissed

993
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: when I first got there. But um, when when Charlotte

994
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: asked me and she approached me, they knew who I was,

995
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: and she just said, could you play bass? I know

996
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: you play guitar, but you could you play bass? Do

997
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: you play bass? Um? Because our bass player is sick

998
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: and we have some shows lined up? And man did

999
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,439
Speaker 1: they ever? They had four nights, two shows a night

1000
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: at the Whiskey happening in six days. I mean it

1001
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: was six days, not even six days. Yeah, yeah, six days.

1002
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: So when I look back, it's kind of crazy that

1003
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: they had waited that long to start getting their sub

1004
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: lined up. But at the at that moment, it was like,

1005
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: here's something to do. This will be cool. They're popular this,

1006
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: so yeah, I can play bass. I'll do this. So

1007
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it was like this is my destiny

1008
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: right away, but it very quickly it became a band

1009
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to join, and that happened as I learned

1010
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: the songs. Because even though I knew who they were

1011
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: and I'd watched them take a big step upwardly mobile

1012
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: step and and their musicianship. I wasn't. I didn't go

1013
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: to all their gigs. I didn't know what their set

1014
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: was or what their material was. I knew we got

1015
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 1: the beat. So I'm learning their songs and you know,

1016
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm no dummy. I know what a good song is.

1017
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: And I was just like, geez, this band has really

1018
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: good songs. And the more I started learning them and

1019
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: finding my way around the base and going, hey, this

1020
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: is pretty cool. I can I can. I can play

1021
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: bass the way I want to play. I played it

1022
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: like it was a guitar. I used my pick and

1023
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: I there was room to do some cool little melodic

1024
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: things and add to the songs. And when I walked

1025
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,439
Speaker 1: into the first rehearsal, I just liked them. I liked

1026
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: the way they looked, I liked the way they dressed.

1027
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 1: I felt like I had found kindred spirits people like me,

1028
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be in that band from the minute.

1029
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: From the minute I walked in that room, I thought

1030
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: it was. It was. I never wanted anything more. How

1031
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: do they ultimately give you the green light? Well, I

1032
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: think there was. It says a super there's a very

1033
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: volatile and very uh tangible chemistry to the go goes.

1034
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: It's still there. You know if we if we are

1035
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: in a room together, the air changes. I means we

1036
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: we all change a little and we become this other entity.

1037
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: And it was evident from the beginning there was a chemistry.

1038
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: But also I'm a good musician. I played really well,

1039
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: and I you know, I I was aware of feel

1040
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: and and and and I just kind of instinctively knew

1041
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: how to do really good at that job. And um,

1042
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: they liked me. They liked me, and as as happens

1043
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: in bands, you know, they they were at a bit

1044
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: of a crossroads with their bass player. She was a

1045
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: finding a founding member. But I think there had been

1046
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: some I think there'd been a little bit of strife

1047
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: between her and the other members. So I think I

1048
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: think it was just probably like when a couple like

1049
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: they don't like each other anymore, but then somebody else

1050
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: has to come along to give you the courage to

1051
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: like move on. I think it was like that. It

1052
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: was like I was like the motel playing that they

1053
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: decided to run off with. And so how long after

1054
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: you played those gigs was it clear that someone was

1055
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: going to light the rocket for the Go Goes. Well,

1056
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't very clear at first, um because even though

1057
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: like we started, we once I was and they asked

1058
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: me to join within probably about ten days. The day

1059
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: after the engagement ended, there was a thing in the

1060
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: The l A Times that mentioned me, and then there

1061
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: was a story the next day why can't the Go

1062
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: Goes get a record deal? And they mentioned me. So

1063
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm like going, okay, I'm in the press already with

1064
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: this band, in association with this band. It's just when

1065
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: are they going to ask me? When are they gonna

1066
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: ask It happened very quickly. I said, I I want

1067
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: this really badly, but I want to be one of

1068
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: the songwriters. They were happy to have a songwriter joined

1069
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: the band as well. Um. But then it was just

1070
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 1: back down to business. It was like doing gigs. I

1071
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: think two weeks later we had a show at the Roxy,

1072
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: we did a show in San Diego. Was just business

1073
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: as usual. Our manager Ginger uh Oh. And the other

1074
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: thing was I had gone on unemployment and as soon

1075
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: as I became a regular member, I found out that

1076
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: the Go Goes. This was the first time I'd ever

1077
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: seen anything like this, But the Go Go's got forty

1078
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: dollars a week Ginger, they had a bank account and

1079
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: everybody got forty dollars a week. And I was getting

1080
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: my unemployment check, and I was living for free in

1081
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 1: Catherine Sebastian's house up on Sunset Plaza. So I thought

1082
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: I had arrived, just so you understand to me, this

1083
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: was I had made it. I had made it. You know,

1084
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm living in the Hollywood Hills, I know rock stars,

1085
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: and I don't have to work, and I'm in a

1086
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: great band, So that it's done. Deal uh so um.

1087
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: But she went out and she would report back to us.

1088
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: I went back to I wish I could remember some

1089
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: of the people. I wish I could remember who were

1090
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: the label people she was meeting with. It would be

1091
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: it would be interesting to to to h out some names. Anyway,

1092
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: she was told by all of them, we can see

1093
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: that the band is popular. We can see that they

1094
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: have a good following. But there's never been a successful

1095
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: all female band, never been one pass. She has letters,

1096
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: she has letters where they pass. Um. So I think

1097
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: we had our biggest show. It was. It was just

1098
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: growing so quickly. And when I mean growing, this is

1099
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: before there's a record deal I'm talking like whiskey Roxy.

1100
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: And then we have a gig at Perkins Palace, which

1101
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: is in Pasadena and it's probably a thousand and cedar theater.

1102
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong, but it was a little bit bigger

1103
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: than that, actually was it. So we have this gig

1104
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: and Um at the Roxy, Miles had come, Miles Copeland

1105
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: had come, and he started just pursuing Ginger, pursuing her,

1106
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: and she she um went back to the labels, went

1107
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: back again because she thought maybe it's that thing when

1108
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: you have it just takes one person to interested and

1109
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 1: then they'll fall in line. But they still didn't. So

1110
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: Miles was the only only only hope we had, and

1111
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: we we agreed to signing with I R S after

1112
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: going to I R S Records and meeting Jay Boberg

1113
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: and John Guinary and all the staff there were just

1114
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: they were so earnest and and sincere and loved the

1115
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: go goes, and it wasn't like we had many choices.

1116
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: So we signed with Miles on April Fool's Day night,

1117
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: and we left the next day to record our album

1118
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: in New York with Richard god Her. Okay, so this

1119
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: happens very quickly, there's a whirlwind and actually it ends

1120
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: pretty quickly too. What was it like being at the

1121
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 1: eye of the hurricane. Well, it was you know I

1122
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: talked about feeling like I'd made it when I was

1123
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: getting forty bucks a week. Well, that was just this

1124
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: sense that I kept having over and over again on

1125
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: a bigger, deeper, more profound, explosive way, like, Oh, we

1126
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: got a record deal that I had never thought about.

1127
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: When I thought about making it in the business, I

1128
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: didn't really think about what the steps were. It was

1129
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: just kind of making it. Um. Of course I'd seen

1130
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: other bands get record deals, and I knew that that

1131
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: was the end goal. But also just not having a

1132
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: freaking job was a pretty big end goal. That wasn't

1133
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: like not being a musician. So um, when we got

1134
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: the record deal, mind blown. The biggest The biggest thing

1135
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: in the world to me was going to record in

1136
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: New York City. I mean I couldn't believe I would

1137
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: be in a hotel room for weeks, if not months,

1138
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: in New York City making an album with my best friends.

1139
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: And I, like you said, I'd only been in the band. Um,

1140
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: let's see January from Ary March four months, so we

1141
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: were on a honeymoon. We were like newlyweds. We were

1142
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: in this band. I felt like it was it was

1143
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: an adolescence. You know, it wasn't a hurricane at all.

1144
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 1: It was a hurricane of of wonder and getting Oh,

1145
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: I just felt like I'm getting what's mine. Finally that

1146
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: felt like all the all the crappy adolescence I didn't

1147
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: get to have I got to have as a go

1148
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: go in New York City making this amazing album, and uh,

1149
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: it was one of the best periods of my life.

1150
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't think I realized untill I wrote about it.

1151
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: How just a fema rail it was. I said that wrong,

1152
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: but it was just like this, like this great thing.

1153
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: I loved writing about it. I loved capturing that what

1154
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:17,479
Speaker 1: it felt like. And um, from there, Yeah, it wasn't

1155
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: a hurricane until uh, it just didn't stop, you know,

1156
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: one thing after the next, just one thing after next

1157
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: for for several years. It just you know, the first

1158
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: time it slowed down, I was I started that having

1159
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: that like fear and lost, Like I think we took

1160
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: eight months off because we started having some problems and

1161
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, like eight months like we're not touring,

1162
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: we're not recording an album, We're not playing shows. Uh

1163
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: I was lost by that time, I was completely absorbed.

1164
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: An Kathy Valentine had existed prior to being a Go

1165
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: Go was obliterated. Um, I was lost. So I think

1166
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: that was when it started feeling a little bit like

1167
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: a hurricane when you're lost to yourself. Right, Okay, Now

1168
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of rep about the Go Goes and

1169
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: you're really the first female band to be on the road.

1170
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: Supposedly there was a lot of debauchery and the Go

1171
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: Goes there was a lot of drug use, et cetera.

1172
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: What was it like being a memory being on the

1173
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:27,480
Speaker 1: road with the band? Well, I figured out fairly quickly that, um,

1174
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: that it was better to start drinking after the show.

1175
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 1: I was young, because so I had I was pretty,

1176
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, I hearty peasant stock and uh I had

1177
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: the constitution that could take it. And I was, you know,

1178
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: twenty two years old, so and it was the eighties

1179
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: and I had been drinking for quite a while, so

1180
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: it was just par for the course. To me. It

1181
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: was just like, you know, that's what everybody does, uh,

1182
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 1: they drink. You know, if I had been in college,

1183
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: I would have been drinking probably just as much at

1184
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: twenty two years sold. So it was just kind of

1185
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 1: the difference was that, uh, I didn't have it didn't

1186
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: interfere with what I had to do if I if

1187
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: I woke up in the morning, Yeah it might suck

1188
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: to go do some interviews or go to a radio station,

1189
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: especially like those really early ones, that might suck, but

1190
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: you could still be really hungover and then fall fall

1191
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: into your bonk or fall into your hotel room, get

1192
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: a nap, and go on stage and have a great

1193
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: time and then you know, rinse and repeat. So uh,

1194
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: for me, the drugs were mainly cocaine. I didn't like

1195
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: other drugs And the only reason I like cocaine was

1196
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: it meant that I could my capacity for drinking it

1197
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: was was enhanced. So I mean, if I didn't get

1198
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: a little buzzed from drinking, I I wasn't going to

1199
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: go just for the heck of it. Do drugs that

1200
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 1: that they were just a tool to to uh make

1201
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: me a better alcoholic. So um, it was just kind

1202
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: of I didn't see anybody doing anything different, not in

1203
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: my world. That's what my friends were doing, that's what

1204
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: my bandmates were doing. That's what that's what all the

1205
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: other bands were doing. Guys were doing a contributing factor

1206
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: to the UH breakup of the Go Goes. I would

1207
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: say they were. But by the time it was a breakup,

1208
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: we had, UM, we had a key member who was

1209
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: strung out on heroin and UH was barely functioning and

1210
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: was probably going to die if she didn't go into rehab,

1211
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: a key creative member. And I'm talking about Charlotte. And

1212
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: I can say that because she's documented it herself very

1213
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 1: very well. UM. But so that's a big thing. And

1214
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: I would say it was not so much that it

1215
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: was the drinking. It's just that what the drinking does.

1216
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,600
Speaker 1: And I can only speak for myself. I was a

1217
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: stunted emotional human being. I had the emotional maturity of

1218
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: a of a fifteen year old. You don't up when

1219
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: you when you're squishing all your feelings down and pushing

1220
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: them off to the side and and shoving him away.

1221
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: That that's not how you grow up. You grow up

1222
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: by by by dealing with stuff. And I wasn't dealing

1223
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 1: with a lot of big stuff. So you take that

1224
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 1: factor that you're an immature person that's incapable of having

1225
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 1: empathy or compassion for for people all I know how

1226
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: to do. And it's a very I'm a very lost

1227
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: sad person. But how do you deal with that? You

1228
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: don't walk around feeling like a lost sad person. You

1229
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 1: dial up how fun how much fun you're having? And

1230
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: I was funny and I was having a good time,

1231
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: and I was a party girl. So that's how I

1232
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: balanced that out and didn't face it. I was a

1233
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: sad sack, you know, basically a drunken sad sack. Was like,

1234
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: you can't be if you're just like the life of

1235
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: the party. So I'm emotionally stunted. I'm also um gotten

1236
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: to the point where I'm motivated by two things, which

1237
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: is desperation and fear. And you have to understand, Bob,

1238
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: that this was more by this time than a than

1239
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: a the culmination of my dream to make it in

1240
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: the business. Sure I wanted that. Sure I wanted to

1241
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,600
Speaker 1: be in a band. All I ever wanted was to

1242
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: be in a band. But I was trained from I

1243
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 1: was ingrained to to take care of myself, and this

1244
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 1: was how I was going to take care of myself.

1245
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: This is how not only me, but I'm taking care

1246
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: of my mom by now and paying her bills. I

1247
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,719
Speaker 1: bought her a place to live. I'm sending her money

1248
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: to live off. So I'm the caretaker of her. I'm

1249
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: the caretaker of me. And if anything is going to

1250
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: threaten that my survival, that's my survival. I was, um uh,

1251
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: really protective of it. And it's not That's not what

1252
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 1: being in a band is about. It's not like dealing

1253
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: with a band member who's like driven by fear and

1254
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 1: desperation to keep it and anything that threatened it. Like

1255
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, Charlotte's got a drug problem, and I'm like, no, no,

1256
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: she's fine, she's fine. You know, we wrote crappy songs

1257
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: for the next record. No no, they're good. We only

1258
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: sold five thousand of the third record. No no, that's great.

1259
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 1: If it was the first record, we'd be happy with it.

1260
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: I was like this constant uh cheerleader, spending spending the

1261
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: things to make it okay and make people out. It

1262
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: was really hard work, hard hard work. So yes, they

1263
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 1: had to effect. Drugs and alcohol had an effect, but

1264
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: I think more than that, it's what it does to

1265
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: you as a person, um and as people. We we

1266
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 1: didn't know how to problem solve. We didn't know how

1267
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: to deal with each other's feelings. We didn't know how

1268
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: to um see what maybe somebody needs, like you know,

1269
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: that makes them feel good about being in the band.

1270
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: You know, like how if you're in a good band

1271
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: and it's a chemistry and it's working, and you're selling

1272
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: records and people dig your band, it's just crazy not

1273
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 1: to kind of make sure everybody's getting a little piece

1274
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 1: of what they need to stay wanting to do it.

1275
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy. Do you think the fact that

1276
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 1: you were the last edition in the band ultimately left

1277
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: you out when the band disintegrated. No, I wasn't left out.

1278
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: Gina and I were the ones that were kicking that

1279
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: were devastated. She was just as devastated by me. No

1280
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: I was. I was. I was as solid a band

1281
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: member as anybody. I mean, I was. We we started

1282
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: out and you know, we didn't have a record deal.

1283
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: We started out in that van, that horrible van. I

1284
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: think UM and plus I brought in a lot of

1285
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: musicianship and songs that that were crucial as we went on.

1286
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: There were no songs, you know, when it came time

1287
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: to do the second record, none at all, not only that,

1288
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: but I had UM. I had like a sense about

1289
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: the business that other people weren't thinking about. So I

1290
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: was the one that was, you know, kind of a

1291
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,719
Speaker 1: pain in the ass, always saying, this isn't right, you guys,

1292
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 1: this isn't right. I don't know about this UM trying

1293
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: to make things fair, you know, like if so and

1294
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: so only has one song or a partial song, let's

1295
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 1: make that the B side of the single, so that

1296
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: they can get some extra money. I was always trying

1297
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: to be the diplomat and make it so everyone was happy.

1298
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't think it had anything to do with it

1299
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: me being the last person in the band, because once

1300
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: I joined, it was the solidified lineup and that was

1301
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: the chemistry. That was the chemistry more than anything else.

1302
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 1: So Jane leaves and was that really the beginning of

1303
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 1: the band? Could the band of survived without Jane? Really?

1304
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 1: I don't think so, because it was based on chemistry.

1305
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: But at the time everyone was so unhappy, and like

1306
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: I said, I couldn't I couldn't fathom anything, uh, I mean,

1307
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 1: part of it was very logical. I was just like

1308
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 1: one in a million gets to this point, is you'd

1309
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 1: be crazy to let this go so as a just

1310
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: a mode of survival. I'm like, maybe this will be

1311
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: a new chapter. I My template was the Rolling Stones,

1312
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 1: you know. I wanted to be in a band that

1313
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: that did twenty albums over decades that um evolved and

1314
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: grew and changed and maybe they had a dud one

1315
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: here and there, but or a dud single, but they

1316
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 1: always came back with something that you liked. That was

1317
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,720
Speaker 1: my template. And I I just thought, okay, we're just

1318
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: this is like you know, Brian or mc taylor or

1319
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: somebody is just a change in lineup and we're going

1320
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: to go on and it's a new chapter. And um,

1321
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: but it was, as I wrote in the book, I

1322
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: didn't see that. That was like the thing I had

1323
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: been fighting so hard to keep was had kind of

1324
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: splintered beyond repair right in front of my eyes. I didn't.

1325
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. But it was the beginning of

1326
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 1: the end. And then when Linda left and Charlotte ultimately

1327
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 1: went with Or, did you feel betrayed? Yeah? I felt

1328
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: betrayed because we we got a new person. I moved

1329
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 1: to guitar, which was my little agenda. Once Jane left,

1330
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh good, I can go back to guitar,

1331
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: which is what I should be doing because that's what

1332
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: I do best. And uh so I got my little

1333
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: agenda in there, and we got a bass player, and

1334
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: uh we play this massive concert in in Rio called

1335
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: Rock and Rio to like something like three dred thousand people,

1336
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, Okay, this is proof, this is proof.

1337
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: We we're gonna we have a new chapter. We're gonna

1338
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 1: make it. But instead, um, Charlotte hit her bottom there

1339
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 1: and ended up going into rehab. And so what I'm

1340
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: thinking is like, oh good, now we're going to have

1341
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 1: our fully functioning person back and we'll really start the chapter.

1342
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: And Mike Chapman had signed on to do the fourth album,

1343
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 1: which I thought, this is this is how you launch

1344
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 1: a new chapter. As with Chapman producing the record, this

1345
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: is how you do it. To me, it was like,

1346
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: but there was just something about Charlotte and Belinda that

1347
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: they I could They're like they're like talking or I

1348
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: don't know. I just felt like, why aren't they weren't

1349
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: they excited? Weren't they excited about this record? Why is

1350
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: Charlotte not all like happy to be out of rehab

1351
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: and being in the band again. I mean I was

1352
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 1: really really immature and focused on myself, and so yeah,

1353
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: I was. I felt really betrayed. Gina and I both did.

1354
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: Gina was we were like minded people. We we were

1355
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: hard workers. We'd come out there to make it in

1356
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: a band. And we both said when they broke up

1357
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 1: the band, we said, this is insane. You know, go

1358
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: go off for a year, go make your solo album,

1359
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 1: Go do your thing, do what you want. But why

1360
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: break up the band? And the manager that was overseeing us,

1361
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 1: I was like, why are you letting this happen? You know,

1362
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: why are you letting this happen? Just tell them to

1363
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: get our solo deal, let her go make a record.

1364
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: This is stupid. I just didn't understand it. Okay, So

1365
01:18:55,320 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: ultimately the band UH does break up or disintegrate. You

1366
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: try to make it as a solo artist that is

1367
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: not working. Mike Chapman is not ultimately interested in the

1368
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: demos you make. How do you handle this? Emotionally? I

1369
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: drink and do drugs and UH have a good time

1370
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: and and just don't accept it. I don't. I just

1371
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 1: don't acknowledge it. I don't acknowledge anything that's painful or

1372
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: or frightening, and I just keep thinking, it's a matter

1373
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: of time. It's just a matter of time. And you know,

1374
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 1: the band I put together was good. It was a

1375
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: good band. Um, I know what a good band is.

1376
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: I know what chemistry is. It wasn't our time. It's

1377
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 1: so much more that you can't even control. You can

1378
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 1: put together a super cool band with charisma and good

1379
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 1: songs and great players, but you can't put together timing

1380
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 1: and the zeitgeist of of just being in the right

1381
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 1: place at the right time. You can't. You can't make

1382
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 1: that happen. You can't make MT puts you in people's

1383
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: living rooms, which is what happened with the Go Goes.

1384
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 1: The Go Gos might not have launched if it hadn't

1385
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 1: been for MTV. You know, that was that was That

1386
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: was a fluke. There's there's things you can't control. So

1387
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: nothing's happening. And I'm but I just think if I'm

1388
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: not don't have a band. If I keep drying and

1389
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: I keep trying to keep trying, and people were believing

1390
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 1: in me. You know, I had some heavy hitters that

1391
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: helped me and supported me. That that kept me thinking, Okay,

1392
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: maybe you know, maybe this you know, whether it was

1393
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: Mike Chapman thinking you could do something with me, or

1394
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, somebody putting up money for for demos, or uh,

1395
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, a musician, a successful musician hooking me up

1396
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: with players. It's like there were things happening that that

1397
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:48,240
Speaker 1: always felt. It's that l a kool aid, you know,

1398
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 1: you're just they're thinking that it could happen. It could happen,

1399
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 1: but meanwhile, you know, meanwhile it's taking its toll. You know,

1400
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm muh, I'm not liking myself. I'm finally the

1401
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: person that I've been I've been just since I was

1402
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:15,520
Speaker 1: a teenager getting stoned and drunk and being disliked and

1403
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 1: that person. It's like it's all there, and it's all

1404
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: It just gets to a point where I just felt

1405
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,640
Speaker 1: like I felt beaten down, like I can't seem to

1406
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 1: get anything going. But I wasn't gonna stop. I was

1407
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 1: I was never going to stop. I just couldn't seem

1408
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: to get but something had to change, something had to change.

1409
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was looking back, it was really hard.

1410
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 1: But at the time I was just operating, operating, you know,

1411
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to do anything else. I couldn't imagine.

1412
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 1: Is this what ultimately send you to a Yeah, I

1413
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: I think that I I woke up after a blackout

1414
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,599
Speaker 1: and I wasn't a black drinker. I I had happened

1415
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: twice in my drinking. Most of the time I would

1416
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: end up with a bad hangover, and I certainly was

1417
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 1: very lucky that I didn't hurt somebody as a as

1418
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: a driver who had drank too much. But there was

1419
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: I had a way of because it was so essential

1420
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: that I couldn't imagine not drinking, that I kept it

1421
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: as controlled as I could, and I would give up

1422
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:28,759
Speaker 1: for like I'm not going to drink for two weeks,

1423
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: I'm not going to drink for a month, and then

1424
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna So is this constant trying to control

1425
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: it so that I wouldn't have to stop. But one

1426
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: night in New York City blackout, and I woke up

1427
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,879
Speaker 1: and there was just like the little, the little magic

1428
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: moment where something pierced through all of the all of

1429
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: that desperation and denial and just said, you know, something's

1430
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: got to change, and I don't know how to do it.

1431
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: I can't make a band happen, and I can't make

1432
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:03,680
Speaker 1: anything happen. Keep screwing up. You know, I screwed up

1433
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: my relationship, and I was screwing up opportunities, and not

1434
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: because I was not showing up, but I just it

1435
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,639
Speaker 1: just was wasn't happening. And I thought, if I quit drinking,

1436
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: that's one thing it'll change. That will change, and if

1437
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 1: one thing changes, maybe everything will change. So what was

1438
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: the year of the first Go Goes reunion? Okay? So

1439
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 1: from two to do you ever have to get have

1440
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: to get a street job? Nope? I didn't have a

1441
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: job since nineteen Okay, so you had written vacation. Were

1442
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 1: you essentially living on royalties for those ten years? No?

1443
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: The royalties dried up. They dried up. There was nothing,

1444
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 1: and I used to pray. I used to like pray like,

1445
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: oh God, use vacation and a commercial this or that.

1446
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 1: I And the other thing was I couldn't seem to

1447
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: get a publishing deal like everyone else in the band.

1448
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,680
Speaker 1: Gina Gina the drummer got a publishing deal, and I'm like,

1449
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: what the heck? Why can't I get a publishing deal?

1450
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: And I remember one guy, Um I went in to

1451
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: Warno Chapel and he's like, this is a great catalog.

1452
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you two hundred fifty thou dollars. And

1453
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 1: I was like like cloud nine, cloud nine out of

1454
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:28,639
Speaker 1: that place. And and then like I didn't hear anything back.

1455
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 1: And then I started calling. I'm like, what's going on,

1456
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: and and they like I could hear the secretary like no,

1457
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: he's not in, and I was just like, wow, you know,

1458
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: this is just like the stories you hear about. So

1459
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:44,000
Speaker 1: I was I was going just going crazy. But what

1460
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: I did, I had right before the Go Goes, And

1461
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: this is how much I believe that the Go Goes

1462
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:51,719
Speaker 1: weren't going to break up. After that Rock and Rio

1463
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: concert in January of eighty five, I came home and

1464
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 1: I bought a house at the top of Sunset Plaza,

1465
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 1: and uh, it was two and dollars and it was

1466
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 1: the last house on the street and it was all

1467
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: I could afford. But it was like, had this amazing view.

1468
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: And so I had that house. Then the band breaks up,

1469
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 1: and that's part of my my uh freak out is

1470
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: that I've got this house and I don't have a

1471
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: job anymore. But what I started doing was um taking

1472
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: equity out of the first thing I plowed through my

1473
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: my retirement money where they had set up a little

1474
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 1: retirement fund. I plowed through all that because I'm I

1475
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:32,719
Speaker 1: me at the beginning, I'm like, it's just a matter

1476
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: of time, and I'm spoiled and I'm grandiose, and I'm okay,

1477
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna rehearse it. S I R and da da

1478
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:41,680
Speaker 1: da done. Oh my god. So I just plowed through

1479
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 1: all this money, and then I would start refinancing my

1480
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: house because when I got it, like interest rates people

1481
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 1: should take note, were like eleven percent, and then they

1482
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: started going down and I would refinance the house, I

1483
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 1: would take out. It never occurred to me that I was,

1484
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, spending the money that I would make on

1485
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 1: the house. So that's how I lived. That's how I lived.

1486
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: And there was there was probably some royalties here and there, okay,

1487
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 1: but you in any event, you weeked it out. When

1488
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 1: they say the band is going to get together, everybody's

1489
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: on the same page, everybody's involved, everybody's being called. Yeah.

1490
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: We started, uh, the we started getting in touch with

1491
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 1: each other. And Belinda had been had an enormous success

1492
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: as a solo artist. Charlotte was kind of her right

1493
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: hand person, writing songs and I reached out to Charlotte

1494
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: and after I had four months of sobriety and we

1495
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 1: we we kindled our friendship. Gina and I had stayed friends.

1496
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: Um Belinda Uh invited everybody to come sing on one

1497
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:50,600
Speaker 1: of her records, and that was the first time we

1498
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: hung out, and it just felt different. It felt different

1499
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: to be sober, and I was very grateful to just

1500
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: get to be around them, because really I just I

1501
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 1: really missed it, you know, I wanted to make it

1502
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: in another band, I really did, but I also missed

1503
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:10,520
Speaker 1: I missed them. I missed the band. Um the Blenda's

1504
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:15,839
Speaker 1: manager approached us about doing a reunion concert, and everybody

1505
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 1: was on board, even though she was still in the

1506
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: middle of having a thriving solo career. She she was agreed,

1507
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 1: she had agreed. I think we all thought it had

1508
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 1: ended in a bad way and this might be a

1509
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 1: way to um uh put a nicer bow around that

1510
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 1: little package. Okay, So once the band reunites in how

1511
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: often does it go out after that? Well, they we

1512
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: did a tour because I r S put out a

1513
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: Greatest Hits record, So we we actually did a tour

1514
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and I got to do all of

1515
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 1: the stuff that we had done. We played on the

1516
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 1: TV shows and we played the places and whatnot, and

1517
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:56,280
Speaker 1: uh did the press and everything. So I got to

1518
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: do it sober, which was was really great. But then

1519
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 1: we had a falling out again, and we had a

1520
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 1: falling out that lasted until it had a lawsuit involved.

1521
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 1: It was all to do with money and songwriting royalties,

1522
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 1: um and stuff like that so um. And then that

1523
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,440
Speaker 1: got resolved and we got back together because Ted Demi,

1524
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:25,679
Speaker 1: the director, wanted to do a film about us and

1525
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: his wife reached out to us all and I think

1526
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: everyone had email by that time. Email was a big

1527
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 1: help because you didn't have to like get on the phone.

1528
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 1: Uh So uh, email started getting exchanged in about talking

1529
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: about this possible movie, and once again we kind of

1530
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 1: came back to each other. And a lot of people think, oh,

1531
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 1: they just do it for money, and the thing I

1532
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, I certainly done mind making money with the

1533
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: go Goes anytime. But that's really not what brings us

1534
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: back together because let's face it, Belinda doesn't need the money,

1535
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 1: so she can choose whether the go Goes work or not.

1536
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 1: It's really it's really within her power and she does

1537
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: not need the money when she is open to it.

1538
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 1: That's when we play. It's really been a lot of

1539
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 1: people think that's what happens. But from up until uh

1540
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 1: the recent past, you know, we we played pretty regularly. Okay,

1541
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 1: So since so you survived on income from the go

1542
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: goes primarily live touring, you personally, well, I mean I

1543
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 1: had really cheap rent because because here's the deal. I'm

1544
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: you know, I was living in the house that I

1545
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 1: was gonna marry, uh get married and be in and

1546
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 1: when we broke up, the house had gone down in

1547
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 1: value from the crash, and uh so I was just

1548
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: paying rand. I got some roommates. I mean, I drove

1549
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 1: an old El Dorado and I was paying four hundred

1550
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: bucks a month. You know, I didn't need a lot

1551
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: of money. I really didn't need, and I made some

1552
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 1: good investments. That's another thing. I finally took my little

1553
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: nest egg and made a couple of good investments. And um,

1554
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, I just I cut my Michael, when I

1555
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: say I cut my cloth to fit my scissors or

1556
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 1: whatever the heck that thing is, I I lived. Okay,

1557
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: So let's let's say right now, you never earned another dollar.

1558
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: Do you have enough money to get to the end.

1559
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 1: I don't know, depends what kind of and you want.

1560
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 1: I mean, uh yeah, I mean I I could go live.

1561
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,639
Speaker 1: I like more, I would like more. But I think so.

1562
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: I think I do because I'm pretty well invested. And

1563
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 1: I lost some money in this last crash, but my

1564
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 1: house went up in value, so it kind of went

1565
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: up and down. Uh some years, vacation just brings in

1566
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: a windfall, you know, some years, and uh, you know,

1567
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 1: I've been really blessed. You know, I had a wonderful

1568
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: marriage for seven years. And uh so I don't have

1569
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: to worry about paying for my daughter's college because her dad,

1570
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, is going to do that. So I've been

1571
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 1: really lucky. I've I've always managed to get even when

1572
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: I was poor growing up, there was always enough. I've

1573
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 1: never really worried about money too much. I don't. I

1574
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: just don't think about it that much. I just there

1575
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 1: always seems to be enough, and if there's not, I

1576
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: just kind of scale down. I mean, for years, like

1577
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 1: I said, I drove an old. I drove an old

1578
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 1: El Dorado, and I lived in a cool little house

1579
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 1: with cheap rent and I was happy. Okay, Now there

1580
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 1: was this lawsuit where they seem to want to kick

1581
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,000
Speaker 1: you out of the bean one more time in the

1582
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: last decade. What was that about? What was that about?

1583
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 1: That started? Okay? I feel like there should be a

1584
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 1: little context that nobody really thinks about that it's been

1585
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 1: People reduce it down to this thing like she she

1586
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 1: quit and sued the band, and that's really not the story. Uh. Basically,

1587
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 1: there had been a lot of dysfunction and and and

1588
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: strife and resentment, and other people had been in the

1589
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 1: hot seat and had been it had been discussed to

1590
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: kick other people out. And I'm not going to go

1591
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,680
Speaker 1: into too who and names and what, but but I

1592
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: was not the first person. I was just the one

1593
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 1: that actually worked on So what happened was I a

1594
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: tour and they were a couple of people were mad

1595
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:22,799
Speaker 1: at me anyway, because I had done this Twitter memoir

1596
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 1: and they didn't like it. I took it down. I cried,

1597
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt anybody

1598
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 1: very sincere. I don't mean to rush over it like

1599
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 1: like it was meaningless. It was a horrible time, but

1600
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was water under

1601
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: the bridge, but it wasn't. Sometimes people you know, didn't

1602
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 1: take much to pick the scab off, and then it's

1603
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 1: a gaping wound again. So when I broke my wrist

1604
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 1: and had to miss a tour, uh, I got on

1605
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 1: the hot seat. Just stop one second. Was the was

1606
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 1: the corporation while these bands are incorporated such that even

1607
01:32:57,280 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 1: though you did not go on the road, did you

1608
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 1: share an any of the revenue? I'm not. I'm not

1609
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 1: at liberty to disclose that, Okay, So in any event

1610
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 1: you break your risk, you don't go on down the road. Continue. Well,

1611
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 1: well that when I broke my wrist. Yeah, anytime somebody

1612
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 1: was out for for and it had happened a few

1613
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 1: times when I was pregnant, someone took my place for

1614
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:23,919
Speaker 1: a handful of shows when Charlotte was pregnant, Vicky Peterson

1615
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 1: from the Bengal. So we had president that if you

1616
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: couldn't perform, you got your equal share as a member

1617
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: of the corporation. And I could just freaking fall down

1618
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,720
Speaker 1: and worship at the business manager's feet. That set up

1619
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: that corporation. So thank god we had it saved me.

1620
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 1: But um, so we had a president, I I fall

1621
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: break my risk the President's in place where the tour

1622
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: goes on without me, and yes, I'm getting my equal share.

1623
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: You you pay your substitute out of your equal share.

1624
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,800
Speaker 1: What what happened though, was the being away and out

1625
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 1: of the picture and the dysfunction and the demonizing and

1626
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:10,920
Speaker 1: by from August to January, I was completely cut out

1627
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 1: and uh, nobody would speak to me, and I knew

1628
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:18,600
Speaker 1: it was bad. Um. Fortunately, my my ex husband is

1629
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 1: also my best friend is a litigation attorney. And I said,

1630
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:25,760
Speaker 1: from the minute it started happening, I said, something bad

1631
01:34:25,880 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: is happening. You know, I think they're going to try

1632
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 1: to kick me out. So I had a lot of

1633
01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 1: legal advice from the beginning of how to conduct myself

1634
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:40,639
Speaker 1: and two that would be advantageous. And when they fired me,

1635
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, okay, I was. I was

1636
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 1: really devastated and hurt that they I couldn't even go

1637
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:52,120
Speaker 1: talk to everybody. And I kept saying, I begged, I begged,

1638
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: I said, can I come and hang out and let's

1639
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 1: talk this out? And and I was rejected to do that.

1640
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: It was one of the most careful experiences of my life.

1641
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:06,599
Speaker 1: But um, the thing that went wrong was to start

1642
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,280
Speaker 1: a new corporation, Like I would have just said, Okay,

1643
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 1: you don't like me anymore, let's figure out how to

1644
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 1: do this. You know, either either guys are going to

1645
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 1: retire soon or let's figure out how to do this

1646
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 1: in a fair way. But that isn't what happened that.

1647
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:25,600
Speaker 1: What happened instead was another corporation was was was created

1648
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: and the name was licensed to that corporation so that

1649
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: I could uh supposedly legally be cut out. And at

1650
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 1: that point my legal advice was you you don't that's

1651
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:40,719
Speaker 1: not that's not something that is is uh can be done.

1652
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 1: You know, partners can't do that to another partner. So

1653
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,879
Speaker 1: that was the legal action and it was not anything

1654
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 1: that I relished doing at all. It was protecting thirty

1655
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,960
Speaker 1: five years of building a business interest in protecting that.

1656
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 1: So that was a horrible. But what was more horrible was,

1657
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, having to be the subject of of very

1658
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:11,799
Speaker 1: uh horrible that the legal advice that that the legal

1659
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 1: people they had were just hell bent on destroying me.

1660
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:19,439
Speaker 1: And you know, luckily I had the cavalry and I

1661
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 1: just kind of um got through it. And it was painful,

1662
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: and I don't really like talking about this at all,

1663
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 1: as you can tell. But but I will say that

1664
01:36:29,200 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 1: there was a silver lining. There was an enormous and

1665
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 1: sometimes the best gifts come in the most hideous, disgusting,

1666
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 1: ugly packages. But I gotta tell you, being home with

1667
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 1: my daughter for the next five years from the age

1668
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: of nine to fourteen or whatever it was, it was

1669
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:53,439
Speaker 1: five years nine nine to fourteen, Uh was fantastic. Some

1670
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: thing's happened in my life that wouldn't have happened if

1671
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 1: I had been doing that. And I'll tell you I

1672
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 1: wasn't happy in that band at that point. I wasn't

1673
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:04,080
Speaker 1: happy and I was actually kind of glad not to

1674
01:37:04,160 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: be doing it. I felt that it was a really

1675
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:12,360
Speaker 1: toxic and dysfunctional band, and I was I was glad

1676
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:15,960
Speaker 1: not to be doing it, but I still liked everybody.

1677
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:19,439
Speaker 1: I want to say that there was times where I

1678
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:21,640
Speaker 1: really saw who I was in that period. And I

1679
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 1: think when we anytime we go through something that's horrible

1680
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:29,599
Speaker 1: and and terrible sometimes or difficult, that's when you really

1681
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: do see who you are. And one of the there

1682
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:34,599
Speaker 1: was a lot of things that showed me who I

1683
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:38,679
Speaker 1: was in that time, and I ended up being really

1684
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 1: proud of how I conducted myself and who I was,

1685
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,360
Speaker 1: how I felt because I didn't hate anybody. I didn't

1686
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:47,680
Speaker 1: hate them. How long from the moment they went on

1687
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 1: tour without you until the lawsuit was settled. Um, the

1688
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: lawsuits started, like I would think, it was filed and

1689
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:03,599
Speaker 1: May of of twelve we settled. I think by they

1690
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,880
Speaker 1: did a tour in twelve, they did one in fourteen,

1691
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 1: I think they did. I think they did four tours

1692
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:13,200
Speaker 1: without me, maybe three, three or four tours. Okay, so

1693
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,160
Speaker 1: where does this leave you now? Does it go back

1694
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: to the first corporation where you are remembered just like

1695
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 1: you were before? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I mean we didn't

1696
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 1: have to go to court. We settled and and this

1697
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 1: the settling. You know, all of our corporate entities were

1698
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:34,360
Speaker 1: intact on settling. That's not that's not um what do

1699
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: they call it. No, that's not that's not nondisclosure stuff.

1700
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,559
Speaker 1: That's just anyone can look up a corporation. So yeah, yeah,

1701
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:45,160
Speaker 1: everything was was good. I mean just okay. After being

1702
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 1: out of the band for four years and a number

1703
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: of years and having the lawsuit, did that impact your

1704
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: relationship with the four other girls? Well? I didn't speak

1705
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 1: to them, and then little by little it started thawing out.

1706
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 1: Like I think Belinda sent me an email and said

1707
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 1: she was sorry and that she wished it hadn't happened

1708
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 1: like that, and um, there was a musical that was

1709
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:12,759
Speaker 1: being underway before I even uh was was kicked out.

1710
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:15,680
Speaker 1: And part of my settlement was that I would be

1711
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 1: involved that that that I couldn't be cut out of that.

1712
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 1: So when there was when there was anything going on

1713
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 1: with the musical, I would go and and you know,

1714
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:29,800
Speaker 1: we would have to say hi and and UH talk

1715
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 1: to each other. And little by little I think, Um,

1716
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 1: I think there's things I'm not really at liberty to say,

1717
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: but I think some people came to the realization that

1718
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: they didn't like what had happened and what they what

1719
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,479
Speaker 1: they had done, and I certainly didn't like it. But

1720
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:52,680
Speaker 1: what happened was the musical was made it to Broadway

1721
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,720
Speaker 1: and the producers wanted to have a show. This was

1722
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 1: at the end, it was a beginning of They wanted

1723
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:03,280
Speaker 1: a show to um play for all the investors and

1724
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:07,559
Speaker 1: key people. And they contacted me and they said, we

1725
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:09,400
Speaker 1: want to do a show. We want you to be there,

1726
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 1: and I said, that's good. Do they do are they

1727
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of let me play and they said yeah, and

1728
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 1: I said, okay, if I can play, And I gotta

1729
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:20,600
Speaker 1: tell you, Bob, that was the most That was the

1730
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 1: scariest thing I've ever done, was to fly to New

1731
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: York and show up in that rehearsal room. Oh man,

1732
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 1: I was so scared, uh, like what were they going

1733
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 1: to be? Like? What were they? And it was this

1734
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:37,600
Speaker 1: crazy thing where where it's a it's a very weird

1735
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:42,919
Speaker 1: bond that we have, like the ugliest, most disgusting, horrible

1736
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,960
Speaker 1: things can happen, but once we're together, it was just

1737
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:48,760
Speaker 1: like something I could see it. I could almost see

1738
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 1: it happened. I could see them going, what, well, this

1739
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 1: is good. This is how it should be, and it

1740
01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 1: certainly felt like how it should be to me. And

1741
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 1: pretty quickly all was right in the world, you know,

1742
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:05,360
Speaker 1: pretty quickly after that. Okay, So since the lawsuits been settled,

1743
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 1: has there been a tour that you've been involved in? No,

1744
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:12,840
Speaker 1: we went um we played the first shows I did

1745
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 1: as if like we want you back in the band.

1746
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 1: Uh was four nights at the Hollywood Bowl with the

1747
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:20,760
Speaker 1: l A. Phil. So here's me. I've been playing like

1748
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,479
Speaker 1: the club down the street for five years and and

1749
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:25,960
Speaker 1: then I'm like at the Hollywood Bowl with the Philharmonic

1750
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 1: behind me. So I was a little nervous and felt unprepared.

1751
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:30,800
Speaker 1: But we did that and we did a few warm

1752
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 1: up shows. That was a drag though, because Gina had

1753
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 1: had next surgery and was dealing with UH family stuff

1754
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:43,840
Speaker 1: and couldn't play. So my first time in five years,

1755
01:41:43,960 --> 01:41:46,559
Speaker 1: and it's not with Gina on the drums. My my

1756
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:50,760
Speaker 1: rhythm section mate isn't there. So the exciting thing pre

1757
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: UH coronavirus was that we were going to go on

1758
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 1: tour this summer and all the shows were sold out.

1759
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 1: We had some big ones, really big gigs, along with

1760
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: just the regular usual stuff. So huge disappointment. This was

1761
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:09,600
Speaker 1: going to be an amazing year. And the documentary happened,

1762
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:14,639
Speaker 1: the document um. We did the documentary over two thousand

1763
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 1: and eighteen, and some more things happened. In January, I

1764
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:22,600
Speaker 1: went to the premier and I've been back in the

1765
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 1: band for a year at this point, but it's still worse.

1766
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: There's still levels of of healing and forgiving that that

1767
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 1: are still going on, and as women in our sixties,

1768
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 1: it's much more than the story of a band. Now

1769
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 1: it's it's really the story of well, I guess it

1770
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:41,720
Speaker 1: is the story of a band, but it feels like

1771
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:44,880
Speaker 1: more than a band when when women are are coming

1772
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 1: to terms or recognizing what these other people are in

1773
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:54,200
Speaker 1: their lives and what they mean. I really I love

1774
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 1: everybody in this band, I really really do. We've been

1775
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 1: in touch a lot talking about this bad stuff with you.

1776
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:03,240
Speaker 1: As you know, I get triggered and it stirs up

1777
01:43:03,280 --> 01:43:06,960
Speaker 1: and I started feeling really gross. But I can replace

1778
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly by remembering what it felt like to

1779
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:13,680
Speaker 1: hug everybody. After that documentary premiered, and last week it

1780
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 1: was supposed to premier at Tribeca and there was going

1781
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:19,640
Speaker 1: to be a big announcement from a major theatrical for

1782
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:24,240
Speaker 1: a theatrical release, and it's all Corona Away, you know,

1783
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 1: along with my book tour. Okay, but didn't the Go

1784
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:30,920
Speaker 1: Goes go on a farewell tour saying it was the

1785
01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: last tour they did in and I was, I was

1786
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 1: so annoyed because I thought, you know, do let me

1787
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 1: come on that tour at least? So it was really

1788
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 1: I was, Oh, there was two things they did that

1789
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:46,600
Speaker 1: was like the biggest ouches of all when I was

1790
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 1: not in the band, and one was the farewell tour

1791
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:51,799
Speaker 1: without me, and one was they got like this private

1792
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: party thing that that looked really fun and I heard

1793
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: about it. I was like, ah, so it wasn't like

1794
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, I'm just like a man.

1795
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:03,000
Speaker 1: You know. It's well, I guess a relative you personally.

1796
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 1: Now Motley Cue recently did this, but they signed in blood.

1797
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:10,320
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting that they did a farewell tour

1798
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 1: and then you go back on the road. Does anybody

1799
01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:15,759
Speaker 1: think about the well, I think, um, what they said,

1800
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:20,679
Speaker 1: the go go said was we are retiring from touring.

1801
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,639
Speaker 1: We're not breaking up, We're retiring from touring. We don't

1802
01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:27,799
Speaker 1: want to do big tours, but if something special comes along,

1803
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: i e. The Hollywood Bowl with the l A Philharmonic,

1804
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 1: we what we reserve the right to do special, cool things,

1805
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:39,440
Speaker 1: because let's face it, this band has gotten amazing opportunities

1806
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,720
Speaker 1: in the nineties, stuff that are's not in the public eye.

1807
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we've played for Mohammad Ali and at the

1808
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: Kennedy Compound, and we've were on a Mardi Grass float

1809
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:52,599
Speaker 1: and played at the Superdome. A lot of cool private

1810
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 1: stuff happens, and so the band wasn't saying we're breaking

1811
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,639
Speaker 1: up and we're done. They said in we're done touring,

1812
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:03,439
Speaker 1: and that was pretty much gonna stick. Except for this

1813
01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 1: was the release of the documentary constituted a reason to

1814
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:10,920
Speaker 1: go out. So as far as I know, nothing will

1815
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:13,559
Speaker 1: ever happen again. You know, fans always say why don't

1816
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:15,639
Speaker 1: you do this? Why don't you that, And it's like, well,

1817
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: it's not really one person's choice. Collectively, the band has

1818
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 1: decided they don't want to tour anymore. Okay, So talking

1819
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:27,800
Speaker 1: about you personally, in the hopefully thirty years you have

1820
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 1: left on the planet, what would you like to achieve

1821
01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:33,240
Speaker 1: or what do you foresee? Um, I'm always gonna play

1822
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,559
Speaker 1: more music, and uh, I like playing in a band.

1823
01:45:36,600 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 1: I still like playing in a band. I have an

1824
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,960
Speaker 1: amazing rock and roll band here in Austin called the

1825
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 1: Blue Bonnets, and it's just a cool rock and roll band.

1826
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:50,320
Speaker 1: Everybody plays great, very fulfilling on that level. Um, And

1827
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:53,439
Speaker 1: but I'm not making a living at it. So what

1828
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:57,640
Speaker 1: I'd like to do is right, write more books. Um,

1829
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:00,640
Speaker 1: I'd like to write a second memoir. I don't know

1830
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:02,519
Speaker 1: what else I want to write. I did a pretty

1831
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 1: good job with my short stories, and I think I

1832
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:08,760
Speaker 1: could handle some fiction. But I'm kind of at that

1833
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:10,759
Speaker 1: place where it's always in the back of my head

1834
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:13,599
Speaker 1: and I feel like like if I don't do it,

1835
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 1: it's like I'm still like where do I start? Where

1836
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:18,880
Speaker 1: do I start? And I'm very uh close to getting

1837
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,439
Speaker 1: to that point whereas like you just start anywhere, that's

1838
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:23,519
Speaker 1: what you do. You start anywhere, because it's kind of

1839
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:25,360
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind all the time. So

1840
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 1: I want to write more. I love doing the soundtrack

1841
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,679
Speaker 1: to my book. I really liked creating music that had

1842
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: uh a story to go with it that was really

1843
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:38,720
Speaker 1: interesting to me. I will continue to do more of that,

1844
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: and I want to move and live other places. I

1845
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 1: want to I want to experience living in other places.

1846
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:47,639
Speaker 1: And I want to finish my degree to take those

1847
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:51,600
Speaker 1: last two classes, and I'll probably do more uh graduate

1848
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 1: school because I like going to school. I'd like to

1849
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:57,919
Speaker 1: do women's studies. I'd like to do um religious studies.

1850
01:46:57,920 --> 01:46:59,759
Speaker 1: There's a lot of I think I could just collect.

1851
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 1: I think like collect master's degrees. That sounds good, or

1852
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 1: maybe you become a maybe you become a like Dr. Valentine,

1853
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:09,519
Speaker 1: that might be awesome, get a PhD. Right, Well, I

1854
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,839
Speaker 1: want to reinforce that this is not all I've ever wanted.

1855
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:17,200
Speaker 1: Is not a traditional rock memoir. Of what I mean

1856
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,040
Speaker 1: by that is, yes, it covers all the hotspots, but

1857
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:22,640
Speaker 1: it's written in a literary fashion. It's just not a

1858
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:25,960
Speaker 1: pastiche of the events. And that's one of the things

1859
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 1: that stuck out for me and why I wanted to

1860
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:32,120
Speaker 1: do this with you, Kathy. But this has been wonderful.

1861
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:35,360
Speaker 1: It's really been great hearing all these schools. Until next time,

1862
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:59,479
Speaker 1: it's Bob left side.