1 00:00:15,264 --> 00:00:22,944 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm Reza Aslin, and I wrote how to Avoid 2 00:00:22,984 --> 00:00:26,424 Speaker 1: the White Savior industrial Complex in the Atlantic, and it 3 00:00:26,584 --> 00:00:32,024 Speaker 1: is the story of the week. Over the thirteen truly 4 00:00:32,144 --> 00:00:35,464 Speaker 1: enjoyable years that I've known Reza Aslan, I've noticed there's 5 00:00:35,544 --> 00:00:41,224 Speaker 1: one huge difference between us. He cares about stuff, unlike me. 6 00:00:41,384 --> 00:00:45,544 Speaker 1: Resa is never afraid of a fight. This guy's argued 7 00:00:45,584 --> 00:00:49,224 Speaker 1: with more people on television alone than I have in 8 00:00:49,264 --> 00:00:52,624 Speaker 1: my entire life. So when Resa wrote that we need 9 00:00:52,824 --> 00:00:56,624 Speaker 1: good white saviors, I was not interested in signing up. 10 00:00:57,504 --> 00:01:00,144 Speaker 1: Being a savior of any color sounded like a lot 11 00:01:00,184 --> 00:01:05,584 Speaker 1: of work, Like the travel alone sounds awful. I'm more 12 00:01:05,624 --> 00:01:07,744 Speaker 1: of a talking to a microphone in my closet kind 13 00:01:07,784 --> 00:01:11,984 Speaker 1: of guy. If I got it wrong, I'd wind up 14 00:01:12,024 --> 00:01:16,144 Speaker 1: being a bad white savior. Being a bad white anything 15 00:01:16,544 --> 00:01:19,344 Speaker 1: is not something I want a chance right now. But 16 00:01:19,464 --> 00:01:21,824 Speaker 1: when I read his piece, I found that Rezzo was 17 00:01:21,864 --> 00:01:25,784 Speaker 1: making a shocking argument. It made me think that I 18 00:01:25,784 --> 00:01:35,504 Speaker 1: could pull off being a good white savior. Writing his 19 00:01:35,664 --> 00:01:38,904 Speaker 1: hard who's got that kind of time when you're already 20 00:01:39,064 --> 00:01:42,104 Speaker 1: busy trying to be John Stein until it turns on 21 00:01:42,224 --> 00:01:45,664 Speaker 1: a mic Ma the twiddles and knob Because a journalist 22 00:01:45,744 --> 00:01:50,544 Speaker 1: friend has got in that jul jib auditories single story 23 00:01:50,664 --> 00:01:57,584 Speaker 1: just listening to smart people speak conversation feeling information is 24 00:01:57,624 --> 00:02:11,864 Speaker 1: a story up Reza Aslin's article how to Avoid the 25 00:02:11,864 --> 00:02:15,624 Speaker 1: White Savior Industrial Complex. It's based on this historical event 26 00:02:15,664 --> 00:02:18,464 Speaker 1: that he chronicles in his new book, which is about 27 00:02:18,504 --> 00:02:21,424 Speaker 1: this American missionary who was a hero in Iran when 28 00:02:21,464 --> 00:02:24,224 Speaker 1: Resa was growing up there as a kid, that is 29 00:02:24,504 --> 00:02:27,784 Speaker 1: until the nineteen seventy nine revolution, which is also when 30 00:02:27,824 --> 00:02:31,704 Speaker 1: Reza and his family fled the country for America. Resa, 31 00:02:31,784 --> 00:02:35,224 Speaker 1: your family left Iran when you were seven years old? 32 00:02:35,384 --> 00:02:38,384 Speaker 1: What do you remember about it in general? Like, I 33 00:02:38,384 --> 00:02:41,184 Speaker 1: don't know what I remember before I was seven. Well, 34 00:02:41,224 --> 00:02:43,264 Speaker 1: I mean it's a lot of you know, images and 35 00:02:43,344 --> 00:02:46,864 Speaker 1: flashes and so you know, there was this mad rush 36 00:02:46,944 --> 00:02:50,464 Speaker 1: at the airport, people all desperate to get out. I 37 00:02:50,544 --> 00:02:55,184 Speaker 1: remember when we were at the the kind of the 38 00:02:55,264 --> 00:02:59,184 Speaker 1: customs area where you know, the the agents would open 39 00:02:59,304 --> 00:03:02,144 Speaker 1: up our suitcases and go through all of our things, 40 00:03:02,224 --> 00:03:05,384 Speaker 1: and I remember very clearly that they pulled out a 41 00:03:05,384 --> 00:03:08,904 Speaker 1: lot of our valuables and just kind of pocketed it. 42 00:03:09,104 --> 00:03:14,344 Speaker 1: And I remember when my mother complained, right, they were 43 00:03:14,344 --> 00:03:18,264 Speaker 1: taking like her tea set and you know, family heirlooms, 44 00:03:19,264 --> 00:03:23,384 Speaker 1: stealing it essentially, the customs officials said, well, you're more 45 00:03:23,384 --> 00:03:26,264 Speaker 1: than welcome to stay with them if you'd like. Wow, 46 00:03:26,424 --> 00:03:30,664 Speaker 1: And so we left Iran with nothing basically a suitcase each. 47 00:03:31,824 --> 00:03:33,824 Speaker 1: Did you feel your parents fear or were you too 48 00:03:33,864 --> 00:03:37,784 Speaker 1: young to It just felt scary, right, I remember very 49 00:03:37,864 --> 00:03:40,904 Speaker 1: clearly that I was scared to death. I remember that 50 00:03:40,944 --> 00:03:43,384 Speaker 1: my mother told me that I needed to not let 51 00:03:43,424 --> 00:03:47,104 Speaker 1: go of my sister's hand, and I remember very clearly 52 00:03:47,584 --> 00:03:51,824 Speaker 1: she didn't say this, but I felt that what was 53 00:03:51,864 --> 00:03:55,824 Speaker 1: being communicated to me was if you let go, you'll 54 00:03:55,824 --> 00:03:59,544 Speaker 1: be left behind. And you know, it was just it was. 55 00:03:59,864 --> 00:04:03,184 Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty awful, pretty traumatic. And had you 56 00:04:03,184 --> 00:04:05,224 Speaker 1: already seen the movie Home Alone and you knew how 57 00:04:05,264 --> 00:04:08,104 Speaker 1: to had this? I think I have a look, Well, 58 00:04:08,144 --> 00:04:11,544 Speaker 1: that was like a nice D's right, that's true. Yeah, whatever, 59 00:04:11,864 --> 00:04:13,784 Speaker 1: it's hard to remember. Must be a traumatic movie for 60 00:04:13,784 --> 00:04:16,304 Speaker 1: you though, Yes, yeah, I thought it was a documentary 61 00:04:16,304 --> 00:04:20,864 Speaker 1: when I first saw it. Um, So your family moves 62 00:04:20,904 --> 00:04:24,264 Speaker 1: to San Jose, California, where you wind up falling in 63 00:04:24,424 --> 00:04:28,624 Speaker 1: with this evangelical church group there that must have really 64 00:04:28,664 --> 00:04:33,504 Speaker 1: pissed your dot off. Oh, yes, it absolutely did. I 65 00:04:33,944 --> 00:04:38,264 Speaker 1: went to an evangelical youth camp, and I became, you know, 66 00:04:38,304 --> 00:04:44,304 Speaker 1: this kind of devout fundamentalist evangelical Christian and uh, you know, 67 00:04:44,384 --> 00:04:46,584 Speaker 1: my first job is to convert your family. You don't 68 00:04:46,624 --> 00:04:50,184 Speaker 1: want them to burn in hell. And my dad was 69 00:04:50,344 --> 00:04:54,264 Speaker 1: so mad because, I mean, his whole thing was, wait 70 00:04:54,264 --> 00:04:59,024 Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute. We fled Iran to avoid religion, 71 00:05:00,144 --> 00:05:04,064 Speaker 1: and the first thing you do is become a fundamentalist Christian. 72 00:05:04,104 --> 00:05:08,024 Speaker 1: He was incensed. I think I think he just felt 73 00:05:08,024 --> 00:05:13,104 Speaker 1: the cruelty of the irony. Though my mother was quite 74 00:05:13,144 --> 00:05:16,504 Speaker 1: open to the gospel message, and I actually converted her 75 00:05:16,624 --> 00:05:20,184 Speaker 1: and my little sister both to Christianity. I save those 76 00:05:20,184 --> 00:05:23,304 Speaker 1: two souls. I could not save my father's soul or 77 00:05:23,704 --> 00:05:26,624 Speaker 1: or my middle sister's soul. Did you actually go on 78 00:05:26,664 --> 00:05:31,304 Speaker 1: any missionary trips to convert people? I converted people just 79 00:05:31,344 --> 00:05:33,384 Speaker 1: here in America. I didn't. I didn't need to. I 80 00:05:33,784 --> 00:05:35,944 Speaker 1: didn't need to go abroad in order to convert anyone. 81 00:05:35,984 --> 00:05:39,464 Speaker 1: But yeah, that is the primary duty, you know, when 82 00:05:39,544 --> 00:05:43,304 Speaker 1: you when you accept this gospel message, job number one 83 00:05:43,784 --> 00:05:45,824 Speaker 1: is to get other people to accept it. And I 84 00:05:45,864 --> 00:05:50,944 Speaker 1: took that job very seriously. I spent a good, you know, 85 00:05:51,104 --> 00:05:57,384 Speaker 1: six seven years just preaching this gospel to everyone, whether 86 00:05:57,424 --> 00:06:00,144 Speaker 1: they wanted to hear it or not. So your book 87 00:06:00,304 --> 00:06:03,744 Speaker 1: is about this missionary named Howard Baskerville who tried to 88 00:06:03,784 --> 00:06:06,984 Speaker 1: convert people to Christianity, just like you did. He goes 89 00:06:07,104 --> 00:06:11,064 Speaker 1: off in nineteen oh seven to Persia. And how did 90 00:06:11,064 --> 00:06:14,304 Speaker 1: you even first hear about this story? It's just kind of, 91 00:06:14,904 --> 00:06:17,064 Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those stories that you've always known. 92 00:06:17,304 --> 00:06:19,304 Speaker 1: Like I always joke it's it's sort of like, you know, 93 00:06:19,504 --> 00:06:22,024 Speaker 1: George Washington chopping down the cherry tree. And he was 94 00:06:22,064 --> 00:06:24,784 Speaker 1: a big deal in Iran. There was like schools named 95 00:06:24,784 --> 00:06:27,744 Speaker 1: after him and streets named after him. Yeah, big deal. Yeah, 96 00:06:27,744 --> 00:06:30,064 Speaker 1: he's entombed in to Breeze, the city in which he lived, 97 00:06:30,064 --> 00:06:32,344 Speaker 1: in the city in which he died. There's a big 98 00:06:32,384 --> 00:06:36,144 Speaker 1: golden bust of him in a museum dedicated to the 99 00:06:36,344 --> 00:06:41,144 Speaker 1: to the Constitution in which he fought. Um, Yeah, schools street. 100 00:06:41,224 --> 00:06:42,824 Speaker 1: When you come to America, you figure he's going to 101 00:06:42,864 --> 00:06:45,704 Speaker 1: be a big deal here too. No one in America 102 00:06:45,744 --> 00:06:48,184 Speaker 1: had ever heard of this kid. So he graduates from 103 00:06:48,184 --> 00:06:51,504 Speaker 1: Princeton and he's decides to become a missionary, but like 104 00:06:51,544 --> 00:06:53,464 Speaker 1: everyone else who goes to some Ivy League school, the 105 00:06:53,584 --> 00:06:59,544 Speaker 1: last thing you want to do. Yeah, So he basically, um, 106 00:07:00,224 --> 00:07:01,864 Speaker 1: he wants to see the world. He wants to kind 107 00:07:01,904 --> 00:07:05,544 Speaker 1: of have a grand experience. But you know, it's nineteen 108 00:07:05,744 --> 00:07:09,464 Speaker 1: o seven and he's a kind of lower middle class kid. 109 00:07:09,744 --> 00:07:12,184 Speaker 1: There's no traveling the world. The way that you do 110 00:07:12,224 --> 00:07:14,624 Speaker 1: that is you become a missionary. That's how you see 111 00:07:14,664 --> 00:07:17,744 Speaker 1: the world. And so he applies for this short term 112 00:07:18,504 --> 00:07:22,464 Speaker 1: mission job, a three year position, and he desperately wants 113 00:07:22,504 --> 00:07:24,504 Speaker 1: to go to China in Japan, but it turns out 114 00:07:24,584 --> 00:07:27,064 Speaker 1: Jesus did not want him in China, or maybe he did, 115 00:07:27,344 --> 00:07:30,264 Speaker 1: didn't matter because the Church wanted him in Persia. So 116 00:07:30,664 --> 00:07:33,024 Speaker 1: they sent him to Persia in the fall of nineteen 117 00:07:33,064 --> 00:07:36,544 Speaker 1: oh seven. Persia, which is what the empire that Iran 118 00:07:36,664 --> 00:07:39,384 Speaker 1: had was called, was in this really bad place. In 119 00:07:39,464 --> 00:07:42,464 Speaker 1: nineteen oh seven, one year earlier, as part of the 120 00:07:42,504 --> 00:07:45,704 Speaker 1: democratic wave that swept the world, the Shaw had signed 121 00:07:45,704 --> 00:07:50,144 Speaker 1: a constitution and created a parliament. But forty days later 122 00:07:50,184 --> 00:07:53,064 Speaker 1: he had a heart attack and died, and then his 123 00:07:53,144 --> 00:07:56,224 Speaker 1: son took over. This guy and you should look him up. 124 00:07:56,704 --> 00:07:59,664 Speaker 1: Chose to where the tallest crown I have ever seen 125 00:07:59,704 --> 00:08:03,024 Speaker 1: in my life, and he was not into sharing power. 126 00:08:03,704 --> 00:08:07,624 Speaker 1: So he immediately tore up that constitution and shelled parliament 127 00:08:07,904 --> 00:08:11,104 Speaker 1: while the legislators were inside. What is is it just 128 00:08:11,184 --> 00:08:13,584 Speaker 1: if you grew up with an authoritarian dad, who's the king, 129 00:08:13,624 --> 00:08:16,104 Speaker 1: You're just going to be a deck or what's the deal? Well, 130 00:08:16,144 --> 00:08:19,584 Speaker 1: in this case, the son whose name was Muhammad Ali 131 00:08:19,664 --> 00:08:22,344 Speaker 1: and now you'll never forget that name, Thank you, Muhammad 132 00:08:22,344 --> 00:08:26,624 Speaker 1: Ali Shahum. You know, he was raised to believe that 133 00:08:26,664 --> 00:08:30,064 Speaker 1: the country was his by birthright, like he honestly and 134 00:08:30,104 --> 00:08:36,104 Speaker 1: truly believed that God had given him Persia to control all. 135 00:08:36,864 --> 00:08:40,664 Speaker 1: That's like any Russian pretty standard, yeah, pretty standard line. 136 00:08:40,984 --> 00:08:43,824 Speaker 1: And he was incense with his father for having given 137 00:08:43,864 --> 00:08:46,744 Speaker 1: in to this two year revolution that had begun in 138 00:08:46,824 --> 00:08:49,904 Speaker 1: nineteen oh five to to create a constitution and a 139 00:08:49,944 --> 00:08:55,664 Speaker 1: parliament to transform Iran from an autocracy to a constitutional monarchy. 140 00:08:55,784 --> 00:09:00,224 Speaker 1: And he takes over in January of nineteen oh seven 141 00:09:00,904 --> 00:09:05,624 Speaker 1: and almost immediately, with the backing of his Russian allies, 142 00:09:06,584 --> 00:09:11,984 Speaker 1: begins to declare a war against the constitutionalists. And this 143 00:09:12,064 --> 00:09:15,384 Speaker 1: is a ward that the Shaw very easily wins because 144 00:09:15,424 --> 00:09:19,504 Speaker 1: he's got a Russian trained, Russian armed, Russian funded, and 145 00:09:19,624 --> 00:09:27,024 Speaker 1: Russian commanded military. The Russians had a real military, yes, exactly, 146 00:09:28,944 --> 00:09:32,784 Speaker 1: and the Shaw with that support takes back almost the 147 00:09:33,104 --> 00:09:38,664 Speaker 1: entirety of the country of Iran except this one city 148 00:09:38,904 --> 00:09:42,904 Speaker 1: in the northwest of the country called Tabreeze. And this 149 00:09:42,984 --> 00:09:46,024 Speaker 1: is the city that Howard Basketball suddenly arrives in. So 150 00:09:46,064 --> 00:09:49,424 Speaker 1: there's all these revolutionaries in this one city at that point. 151 00:09:49,824 --> 00:09:53,344 Speaker 1: Who's in charge? The revolutionaries come under the command of 152 00:09:53,344 --> 00:09:57,624 Speaker 1: this mythical character named Satar Khan, who sort of like 153 00:09:57,664 --> 00:10:01,784 Speaker 1: the George Washington of the of the revolutionary army, except 154 00:10:01,824 --> 00:10:06,824 Speaker 1: that Washington was, you know, a rich landowning slave owner, 155 00:10:07,224 --> 00:10:11,144 Speaker 1: and Satar Khan was like an literate horse thief and peasant. 156 00:10:11,664 --> 00:10:15,864 Speaker 1: But he had this sort of natural leadership ability, and 157 00:10:15,944 --> 00:10:20,504 Speaker 1: he sort of creates this unity amongst all of these 158 00:10:20,504 --> 00:10:25,624 Speaker 1: different groups and trains them and creates a fearsome fighting force. 159 00:10:25,944 --> 00:10:29,704 Speaker 1: What's happening in Tabreez becomes a kind of international cause celebre, 160 00:10:30,264 --> 00:10:34,984 Speaker 1: and so all these other revolutionaries around the world start 161 00:10:35,064 --> 00:10:38,344 Speaker 1: to come to Tabreeze to join the fight, all fighting 162 00:10:38,504 --> 00:10:42,064 Speaker 1: in what was at that time widely seen as the 163 00:10:42,104 --> 00:10:46,504 Speaker 1: most important anti imperialist revolution in the world. But if 164 00:10:46,504 --> 00:10:50,544 Speaker 1: Baskerville's like a missionary who's a high school teacher, how 165 00:10:50,544 --> 00:10:54,904 Speaker 1: does he become friends with a guy soder Khan who's 166 00:10:55,344 --> 00:10:59,304 Speaker 1: you know, a revolutionary and a warrior, Like doesn't seem 167 00:10:59,384 --> 00:11:02,664 Speaker 1: like a natural friendship. Well, partly it has to do 168 00:11:02,704 --> 00:11:05,224 Speaker 1: with the fact that everybody else is so much older 169 00:11:05,224 --> 00:11:08,304 Speaker 1: than he is. So there are five American missionaries at 170 00:11:08,304 --> 00:11:11,344 Speaker 1: this school where he teaches, and he's the only one 171 00:11:11,384 --> 00:11:13,984 Speaker 1: of them who's not married with children. You know, he's 172 00:11:14,024 --> 00:11:16,984 Speaker 1: twenty two years old, yes, and there's nobody to hang 173 00:11:16,984 --> 00:11:20,264 Speaker 1: out with, and so he just kind of starts hanging 174 00:11:20,304 --> 00:11:23,944 Speaker 1: out with Persians who are his age, and Persians who 175 00:11:23,944 --> 00:11:28,944 Speaker 1: are his age are engaged in a revolution for freedom 176 00:11:28,984 --> 00:11:33,704 Speaker 1: and democracy. So kind of how you became an evangelical. Yeah, exactly, 177 00:11:33,944 --> 00:11:35,864 Speaker 1: he's just looking for people your age to hang out with, 178 00:11:36,064 --> 00:11:38,064 Speaker 1: and so he started he starts going to these you know, 179 00:11:38,104 --> 00:11:41,064 Speaker 1: like late night coffee shop meetings, and he's listening to 180 00:11:41,104 --> 00:11:44,464 Speaker 1: these debates about you know, what kind of country they 181 00:11:44,504 --> 00:11:47,144 Speaker 1: want to build, you know that the Shaw is engaged in. 182 00:11:47,504 --> 00:11:50,624 Speaker 1: Are they the equivalent of like cloves smoking kind of 183 00:11:50,704 --> 00:11:55,984 Speaker 1: cafe intellectuals or are these just like badass revolutionaries with like, 184 00:11:56,704 --> 00:12:02,384 Speaker 1: you know, guns strapped to them. They're cloves smoking intellectuals 185 00:12:02,864 --> 00:12:06,264 Speaker 1: with rifles slung on their shoulders. Oh this is so. 186 00:12:06,304 --> 00:12:07,744 Speaker 1: In other words, there's got to be a picture of 187 00:12:07,744 --> 00:12:10,864 Speaker 1: these people in some college kids dorm wall. As a 188 00:12:10,904 --> 00:12:14,504 Speaker 1: matter of fact, because they understood like the propaganda value 189 00:12:14,504 --> 00:12:20,184 Speaker 1: of this, they took thousands of photographs of themselves. They 190 00:12:20,224 --> 00:12:23,744 Speaker 1: actually created postcards, and they would send the postcards to 191 00:12:23,784 --> 00:12:28,984 Speaker 1: the other provinces, you know, of these armed, beautiful fighters 192 00:12:29,064 --> 00:12:32,824 Speaker 1: men and women. Like the pictures of the women were scandalous. 193 00:12:32,624 --> 00:12:36,264 Speaker 1: The women, so women with guns looking cool, with like 194 00:12:37,264 --> 00:12:39,664 Speaker 1: a cigarette dangling from these In fact, the women would 195 00:12:39,784 --> 00:12:44,744 Speaker 1: cut their hair and wear the same uniforms as the 196 00:12:44,824 --> 00:12:48,864 Speaker 1: men and they would go out and fight. And these 197 00:12:48,904 --> 00:12:52,864 Speaker 1: pictures caused quite a scandal in Europe. Actually, when they 198 00:12:52,864 --> 00:12:55,224 Speaker 1: started being published in Europe, they were like, oh my god, 199 00:12:55,264 --> 00:13:00,144 Speaker 1: there's women fighting in these wars. How barbaric. So I 200 00:13:00,184 --> 00:13:03,184 Speaker 1: expect Baskerville is going to help the people who were 201 00:13:03,224 --> 00:13:06,664 Speaker 1: suffering and serve them and help them find food. But 202 00:13:06,824 --> 00:13:09,944 Speaker 1: instead he does something that I just don't see from 203 00:13:09,944 --> 00:13:12,424 Speaker 1: a Princeton guy, which is he like goes to the 204 00:13:12,544 --> 00:13:15,944 Speaker 1: encyclopedia and looks up how to make a bomb, which 205 00:13:15,944 --> 00:13:17,904 Speaker 1: I didn't know was in the encyclopedia. First of all, 206 00:13:18,104 --> 00:13:20,224 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I'm curious about this, whether it's 207 00:13:20,264 --> 00:13:24,464 Speaker 1: still in there. Yeah, the Encyclopedia Britannica apparently lots of 208 00:13:24,504 --> 00:13:28,824 Speaker 1: instructions about bomb making and like military training and things 209 00:13:28,864 --> 00:13:31,544 Speaker 1: like that. Okay, So the State Department finds out that 210 00:13:31,584 --> 00:13:33,784 Speaker 1: Baskerville has looked up how to make a bomb in 211 00:13:33,824 --> 00:13:38,824 Speaker 1: the Encyclopedia Britannica, and and they're afraid he'll cause an incident, 212 00:13:38,904 --> 00:13:42,104 Speaker 1: so they order him home. I assume, right, Well, first, 213 00:13:42,144 --> 00:13:44,704 Speaker 1: you know, they read him the Riot Act. Sure, you 214 00:13:44,744 --> 00:13:48,104 Speaker 1: cannot have anything to do with what's happening in this revolution. 215 00:13:48,664 --> 00:13:51,944 Speaker 1: You cannot engage in it in any way. We will 216 00:13:52,144 --> 00:13:55,424 Speaker 1: arrest you. We will, you know, detain you if you 217 00:13:55,424 --> 00:13:58,024 Speaker 1: don't stop these activities. And so he does. For a 218 00:13:58,064 --> 00:14:01,464 Speaker 1: little while he does, And then why is he is 219 00:14:01,504 --> 00:14:04,744 Speaker 1: he like taking marksmanship classes? Like how is he learning 220 00:14:04,784 --> 00:14:07,504 Speaker 1: how to like fight? But here's the thing, Joel, the 221 00:14:07,864 --> 00:14:10,744 Speaker 1: revolutionary army had enough people who knew how to shoot guns. 222 00:14:11,384 --> 00:14:14,304 Speaker 1: That's not what they needed Baskerville for. What they needed 223 00:14:14,344 --> 00:14:19,424 Speaker 1: Baskerville for was the propaganda boom. This revolutionary army had 224 00:14:19,824 --> 00:14:24,864 Speaker 1: had been begging the United States for support for years. 225 00:14:25,224 --> 00:14:29,864 Speaker 1: They couldn't understand America's position, or like, we don't get it. 226 00:14:30,184 --> 00:14:32,784 Speaker 1: The only thing that we really know about American history 227 00:14:32,864 --> 00:14:35,464 Speaker 1: is that you fought a revolution against a murderous tyrant, 228 00:14:36,104 --> 00:14:39,624 Speaker 1: and we are fighting a revolution against a murderous tyrant. 229 00:14:39,664 --> 00:14:43,824 Speaker 1: How could you not be on our side? And just 230 00:14:43,984 --> 00:14:48,544 Speaker 1: having an American there is one American, just one American 231 00:14:49,384 --> 00:14:55,304 Speaker 1: was so valuable, Satar Khan. You know, this sort of 232 00:14:55,304 --> 00:15:03,424 Speaker 1: revolutionary commander makes him second in command, makes Baskerville, you 233 00:15:03,464 --> 00:15:06,344 Speaker 1: know twenty at the time, twenty three year old Christian 234 00:15:06,344 --> 00:15:09,664 Speaker 1: missionary second in command. So Basketball has this choice. Now 235 00:15:09,824 --> 00:15:12,984 Speaker 1: he can go home right as he's been ordered to do, 236 00:15:13,864 --> 00:15:17,584 Speaker 1: or he can stay and be second in command. So 237 00:15:17,704 --> 00:15:20,384 Speaker 1: he says, okay, fine, he won't do it anymore, he promises, 238 00:15:20,984 --> 00:15:23,824 Speaker 1: and he kind of goes back to his teaching. But then, 239 00:15:24,064 --> 00:15:27,024 Speaker 1: you know, after months of trying to defeat to Breeze 240 00:15:27,024 --> 00:15:30,704 Speaker 1: and failing, the shot decides to change tactics and just 241 00:15:30,784 --> 00:15:33,984 Speaker 1: starve the city to death. So he besieges the city, 242 00:15:34,264 --> 00:15:37,664 Speaker 1: cuts off all food and water, and what follows is 243 00:15:37,744 --> 00:15:43,064 Speaker 1: this horrific humanitarian disaster in which tens of thousands of men, 244 00:15:43,224 --> 00:15:46,744 Speaker 1: women and children are dying on the streets of starvation. 245 00:15:47,304 --> 00:15:51,144 Speaker 1: And that's it for Baskerville, like something snaps in him, 246 00:15:51,624 --> 00:15:56,064 Speaker 1: and he quits his teaching job, he quits his missionary post, 247 00:15:56,664 --> 00:16:02,784 Speaker 1: and he fully joins this revolution. And so the American 248 00:16:02,784 --> 00:16:05,584 Speaker 1: Consul general, the same guy who read him the Riot 249 00:16:05,584 --> 00:16:08,864 Speaker 1: Act when he found out what he was doing, goes 250 00:16:08,944 --> 00:16:11,864 Speaker 1: up to him and says, in no uncertain terms, you 251 00:16:11,904 --> 00:16:16,384 Speaker 1: can't do this. And Baskerville very famously responds, the only 252 00:16:16,424 --> 00:16:20,024 Speaker 1: difference between me and these people is the place of 253 00:16:20,064 --> 00:16:22,544 Speaker 1: my birth, and that is not a very big difference. 254 00:16:22,864 --> 00:16:25,384 Speaker 1: And he pulls out his passport and he hands it over, 255 00:16:26,064 --> 00:16:31,384 Speaker 1: and he strips himself of his American citizenship. That sounds symbolic, 256 00:16:31,464 --> 00:16:34,504 Speaker 1: but in reality it actually put him in danger. Right, 257 00:16:34,624 --> 00:16:37,504 Speaker 1: nobody was foolish enough to hurt an American even then. 258 00:16:38,064 --> 00:16:41,424 Speaker 1: So at that moment in which he hands it over, right, 259 00:16:41,944 --> 00:16:45,304 Speaker 1: it's not just a symbolic act. He is giving up 260 00:16:45,344 --> 00:16:49,024 Speaker 1: that privileged a position that he had, that safety net 261 00:16:49,424 --> 00:16:53,464 Speaker 1: that he enjoyed. And now he is, as he himself 262 00:16:53,544 --> 00:16:57,024 Speaker 1: rightly says, just another one of these revolutionaries. So then 263 00:16:57,024 --> 00:16:59,584 Speaker 1: the fight. He's really in the fight. Now he's in 264 00:16:59,624 --> 00:17:04,624 Speaker 1: the fight, and as predicted by me, he's not so good, 265 00:17:04,824 --> 00:17:06,904 Speaker 1: not that good at it. By the way, I should 266 00:17:06,944 --> 00:17:10,184 Speaker 1: mention he when he quit his teaching position, he stood 267 00:17:10,224 --> 00:17:12,824 Speaker 1: before his students and said, I can't do this anymore. 268 00:17:12,864 --> 00:17:16,024 Speaker 1: I can't just keep teaching you anymore while you know, 269 00:17:16,024 --> 00:17:18,184 Speaker 1: there's this suffering on the streets. I'm going to quit 270 00:17:18,264 --> 00:17:20,424 Speaker 1: my job and I'm going to go join the revolution. 271 00:17:20,504 --> 00:17:24,464 Speaker 1: And his students got up and joined him. So he 272 00:17:24,504 --> 00:17:26,944 Speaker 1: has his There's not one teacher I ever had who 273 00:17:26,984 --> 00:17:29,704 Speaker 1: I would follow up the battle. No, really, no one. 274 00:17:30,304 --> 00:17:32,624 Speaker 1: You're a professor, would your kids follow you? I can 275 00:17:32,664 --> 00:17:35,704 Speaker 1: think of maybe two of them who might come. Pretty too, 276 00:17:36,024 --> 00:17:39,944 Speaker 1: that's not at all, you know. He forms this kind 277 00:17:39,944 --> 00:17:43,824 Speaker 1: of squad within the larger revolutionary army in which he 278 00:17:43,944 --> 00:17:47,344 Speaker 1: is in command of all these high school kids. But again, 279 00:17:48,024 --> 00:17:52,024 Speaker 1: there's really no saving the city. You know. By the 280 00:17:52,064 --> 00:17:55,104 Speaker 1: time we get to around April nineteen o nine, when 281 00:17:55,104 --> 00:17:58,864 Speaker 1: he's now twenty four years old, the siege has done 282 00:17:58,904 --> 00:18:02,504 Speaker 1: its job. I mean, the city is out of food. 283 00:18:03,344 --> 00:18:07,984 Speaker 1: People are dying by the hundreds every day, there's really 284 00:18:08,024 --> 00:18:11,464 Speaker 1: nothing left to do except to die waiting for the 285 00:18:11,504 --> 00:18:15,224 Speaker 1: siege to end, or die breaking the siege. And so 286 00:18:15,784 --> 00:18:18,344 Speaker 1: on the morning of April twentieth, nineteen o nine, he 287 00:18:18,464 --> 00:18:23,824 Speaker 1: and his students volunteer for this I mean suicidal mission. Really, 288 00:18:23,864 --> 00:18:26,864 Speaker 1: it is a suicidal mission to try to break through 289 00:18:27,104 --> 00:18:31,104 Speaker 1: the siege and get food and assistance to the city. 290 00:18:31,944 --> 00:18:35,304 Speaker 1: It doesn't last long. Basketball gets shot in the heart. 291 00:18:36,424 --> 00:18:39,264 Speaker 1: He survives for about ten minutes and then he dies. 292 00:18:39,584 --> 00:18:43,464 Speaker 1: The revolution succeeds, though, yes, news starts to spread about 293 00:18:43,504 --> 00:18:46,584 Speaker 1: now an American has died, right. It was one thing when, 294 00:18:46,584 --> 00:18:49,544 Speaker 1: like you know, Russians and Georgians and Persians and Armenians 295 00:18:49,624 --> 00:18:52,904 Speaker 1: were being killed, but an American just died. And so 296 00:18:53,744 --> 00:18:57,664 Speaker 1: the Russians convinced the Shaw to declare a temporary ceasefire 297 00:18:57,864 --> 00:19:01,784 Speaker 1: so that they can bring food and medical assistance to 298 00:19:01,824 --> 00:19:07,544 Speaker 1: the starving inhabitants of the city, and the Shaw reluctantly agrees. 299 00:19:07,864 --> 00:19:11,384 Speaker 1: And it's that agreement that leads to his downfall, because 300 00:19:11,424 --> 00:19:15,624 Speaker 1: the revolutionaries use the lull in fighting to break through 301 00:19:16,424 --> 00:19:21,384 Speaker 1: and march on Tehran and throw him from his throne, 302 00:19:21,504 --> 00:19:24,704 Speaker 1: send him into exile, and they re established and Iran 303 00:19:25,024 --> 00:19:28,344 Speaker 1: is a liberal democracy to this day, and then it's 304 00:19:28,344 --> 00:19:31,304 Speaker 1: a great and that's it, end of story. I haven't 305 00:19:31,344 --> 00:19:34,264 Speaker 1: kept up since that. Yeah, well so it does, because 306 00:19:34,264 --> 00:19:37,224 Speaker 1: you know, they re established the constitution, they rebuild the parliament, 307 00:19:37,264 --> 00:19:41,584 Speaker 1: and for a brief while, Iran is a constitutional monarchy 308 00:19:41,744 --> 00:19:44,824 Speaker 1: and Baskerville is a martyr hero until, of course, the 309 00:19:44,904 --> 00:19:47,664 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine revolution, when they probably don't want to 310 00:19:47,704 --> 00:19:52,024 Speaker 1: celebrate Americans anymore. Yeah. After that revolution and after the 311 00:19:52,184 --> 00:19:57,704 Speaker 1: Islamic Republic takeover, pretty much all memory of Baskerville gets 312 00:19:57,704 --> 00:20:00,624 Speaker 1: wiped that. All those streets are renamed, all the schools 313 00:20:00,624 --> 00:20:03,944 Speaker 1: are renamed. Someone told me not that long ago that 314 00:20:03,984 --> 00:20:08,304 Speaker 1: there's a chain of very popular coffee shops in Tehran 315 00:20:08,384 --> 00:20:13,904 Speaker 1: that are still called Baskerville. Oh but I'm certain that 316 00:20:13,984 --> 00:20:17,384 Speaker 1: nobody sitting in those coffee shops has any idea who 317 00:20:17,384 --> 00:20:22,264 Speaker 1: Howard Basketball actually is. It's like asking people who drink 318 00:20:22,264 --> 00:20:25,944 Speaker 1: at Starbucks to tell them about the myth exact. Yeah, 319 00:20:25,944 --> 00:20:29,264 Speaker 1: exactly right. When we come back, we'll find out why 320 00:20:29,304 --> 00:20:32,064 Speaker 1: resident thinks we need more white people meddling into other 321 00:20:32,104 --> 00:20:36,504 Speaker 1: countries affairs like Howard Baskerville did. But first, a word 322 00:20:36,584 --> 00:20:48,184 Speaker 1: from our white sponsors. RESI wrote a book about Howard 323 00:20:48,224 --> 00:20:54,344 Speaker 1: Baskerball that's partly a call to arms for Americans maybe literally. Okay, 324 00:20:54,424 --> 00:20:57,904 Speaker 1: so you write this article in the Atlantic in defense 325 00:20:58,024 --> 00:21:00,984 Speaker 1: of White Saviors, which is a really a response to 326 00:21:00,984 --> 00:21:04,544 Speaker 1: an article ten years ago that Teju Cole wrote about 327 00:21:04,584 --> 00:21:08,104 Speaker 1: the white savior industrial complex, and you make an argument 328 00:21:08,424 --> 00:21:13,464 Speaker 1: through Howard Askerville that more white people should go to 329 00:21:13,784 --> 00:21:17,184 Speaker 1: UH countries full of non white people and teach them 330 00:21:17,184 --> 00:21:23,984 Speaker 1: a thing. Or that's a amplification. No, Look, what I'm 331 00:21:24,024 --> 00:21:29,744 Speaker 1: saying is the world needs white people of privilege to 332 00:21:29,864 --> 00:21:34,864 Speaker 1: use their resources to help as much as possible. And 333 00:21:34,904 --> 00:21:37,424 Speaker 1: there's this is every college application I read when I 334 00:21:37,464 --> 00:21:40,104 Speaker 1: have kids, and there's a way. My argument is that 335 00:21:40,144 --> 00:21:43,024 Speaker 1: there is a way to do this while avoiding the 336 00:21:43,064 --> 00:21:48,704 Speaker 1: white savior trap, and that ironically that Baskerville actually provides 337 00:21:48,744 --> 00:21:51,784 Speaker 1: a pretty good, you know, model of how to do 338 00:21:51,864 --> 00:21:54,024 Speaker 1: it right. I mean, here's a kid who went there 339 00:21:54,184 --> 00:21:58,504 Speaker 1: literally as a white savior, but who very quickly understood 340 00:21:59,264 --> 00:22:02,864 Speaker 1: that he needed to give the agency to the people 341 00:22:02,904 --> 00:22:05,264 Speaker 1: that he had come to serve. Right, he asked them, 342 00:22:05,304 --> 00:22:07,864 Speaker 1: what do you need from me? And they said, we 343 00:22:07,944 --> 00:22:11,864 Speaker 1: don't need another pre We don't need another teacher. We 344 00:22:11,904 --> 00:22:15,104 Speaker 1: need someone to join this cause so that the world 345 00:22:15,144 --> 00:22:17,784 Speaker 1: will take us seriously. That's what we need from you. 346 00:22:18,024 --> 00:22:20,144 Speaker 1: And he did. He had this sort of the safety 347 00:22:20,144 --> 00:22:22,784 Speaker 1: of his privilege and he was willing to give that 348 00:22:22,944 --> 00:22:28,664 Speaker 1: up and to truly serve in the way that the 349 00:22:28,664 --> 00:22:32,464 Speaker 1: people he had come to serve needed him. So how 350 00:22:32,504 --> 00:22:36,304 Speaker 1: do you, maybe differently or maybe the same as Teja Cole, 351 00:22:36,584 --> 00:22:40,464 Speaker 1: define what a white savior is. A white savior is 352 00:22:40,944 --> 00:22:47,424 Speaker 1: a person of privilege who seeks out minor acts of 353 00:22:47,584 --> 00:22:53,944 Speaker 1: charity while ignoring the underlying causes that have led to 354 00:22:54,504 --> 00:22:58,384 Speaker 1: the situation that he or she is trying to address, 355 00:22:58,464 --> 00:23:04,464 Speaker 1: and who does so without giving any agency to those people, 356 00:23:05,104 --> 00:23:11,584 Speaker 1: and fundamentally with this goal of having some big emotional 357 00:23:11,664 --> 00:23:16,064 Speaker 1: experience that just ends up ye validating their privilege to 358 00:23:16,144 --> 00:23:18,304 Speaker 1: begin with. That, I think is sort of what a 359 00:23:18,344 --> 00:23:22,224 Speaker 1: white savior is. So that's like the two week trip 360 00:23:22,344 --> 00:23:25,184 Speaker 1: to Costa Rica. Yeah, the two week trip to Costa 361 00:23:25,264 --> 00:23:28,624 Speaker 1: Rica to build you know, a well that no one 362 00:23:28,744 --> 00:23:32,304 Speaker 1: asked for to begin with. That's that's what the white 363 00:23:32,304 --> 00:23:35,744 Speaker 1: savior is. You make a compelling argument through Baskerville that 364 00:23:35,744 --> 00:23:38,824 Speaker 1: they are good white saviors, but do you have to 365 00:23:38,904 --> 00:23:41,864 Speaker 1: die to be a good white savior? Like, who are 366 00:23:41,904 --> 00:23:44,304 Speaker 1: the examples that you think of? Who are good white saviors? 367 00:23:44,784 --> 00:23:47,064 Speaker 1: You're putting me on the spot here. I don't know 368 00:23:47,184 --> 00:23:50,824 Speaker 1: that exact that there aren't any. Look, my wife, I 369 00:23:50,864 --> 00:23:54,424 Speaker 1: think you know, my wife is a good white savior. 370 00:23:54,744 --> 00:23:59,984 Speaker 1: She really my wife is a fairly privileged white woman 371 00:24:00,304 --> 00:24:05,864 Speaker 1: from the Midwest, quit her job, quit everything, moved to 372 00:24:05,904 --> 00:24:13,024 Speaker 1: East Africa and lived amongst you know, the people there 373 00:24:13,064 --> 00:24:17,464 Speaker 1: in Uganda in Kenya, discovered that, you know, what they 374 00:24:17,544 --> 00:24:22,504 Speaker 1: really needed was an easier and a fairer way to 375 00:24:22,584 --> 00:24:27,104 Speaker 1: get the capital necessary in order to thrive in their 376 00:24:27,144 --> 00:24:33,664 Speaker 1: own businesses and in their own you know, entrepreneurial um goals, 377 00:24:34,184 --> 00:24:37,944 Speaker 1: and so created this the first peer to peer micro 378 00:24:38,024 --> 00:24:42,184 Speaker 1: lending program called Kiva. And this is a big part 379 00:24:42,184 --> 00:24:44,184 Speaker 1: of what attracted you to her, right, ye are you kidding? 380 00:24:44,464 --> 00:24:47,144 Speaker 1: I mean, that's hot, that's not hot. What a specific 381 00:24:47,144 --> 00:24:51,664 Speaker 1: fetish you have white saviors. It's a weird white savior fetish. 382 00:24:51,664 --> 00:24:54,624 Speaker 1: I'm just starting to realize that. And feet there's no 383 00:24:54,624 --> 00:24:58,944 Speaker 1: poorn Heub channel for that at all. Right, although are 384 00:24:58,984 --> 00:25:01,744 Speaker 1: we sure about that? No, we are not sure about 385 00:25:01,784 --> 00:25:06,264 Speaker 1: anything on the Internet. Um, okay, So you're on this 386 00:25:06,344 --> 00:25:09,664 Speaker 1: book tour for your new book, An American Martyr in Persia, 387 00:25:09,904 --> 00:25:14,864 Speaker 1: and the tour has been challenging, right, it has been challenging. Yeah, 388 00:25:15,504 --> 00:25:19,904 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. What's been going on? Well, look, you know, 389 00:25:19,904 --> 00:25:23,264 Speaker 1: what's happening in Iran right now is in many ways unprecedented. 390 00:25:24,704 --> 00:25:28,544 Speaker 1: I've called it a fourth revolution. There have been three 391 00:25:28,624 --> 00:25:30,944 Speaker 1: revolutions in Iran's past, the nineteen o six one that 392 00:25:30,944 --> 00:25:33,264 Speaker 1: we've talked about, in nineteen fifty three, nineteen seventy nine, 393 00:25:33,904 --> 00:25:37,024 Speaker 1: and I think what's happening now has the potential of 394 00:25:37,064 --> 00:25:40,904 Speaker 1: being that fourth revolution, and it has unleashed a lot 395 00:25:40,944 --> 00:25:45,024 Speaker 1: of passions in a lot of people. And as one 396 00:25:45,064 --> 00:25:49,264 Speaker 1: of the most sort of you know, public progressive Iranian 397 00:25:49,304 --> 00:25:52,984 Speaker 1: American voice, a lot of that shit has come towards 398 00:25:53,104 --> 00:25:57,064 Speaker 1: me and wait specifically, like what's happened, I've had just 399 00:25:57,184 --> 00:26:01,184 Speaker 1: kind of general threats of violence and disruption that have 400 00:26:01,304 --> 00:26:03,944 Speaker 1: canceled a number of my events, and then I myself 401 00:26:04,024 --> 00:26:10,144 Speaker 1: had to cancel two events because of threats to the participant. Um, 402 00:26:10,264 --> 00:26:12,344 Speaker 1: you know, anybody who would show up with me? So 403 00:26:12,384 --> 00:26:15,424 Speaker 1: what are people accusing you of of being a like 404 00:26:15,464 --> 00:26:21,544 Speaker 1: a paid lobbyists of the Islamic Republic, which, besides being absurd, 405 00:26:21,664 --> 00:26:27,384 Speaker 1: is also profoundly illegal, by the way, like hugely illegal. 406 00:26:27,504 --> 00:26:30,464 Speaker 1: Wait to the ideas that you're in bed with the Atlas. 407 00:26:31,784 --> 00:26:36,224 Speaker 1: Really that's right. Is there a Baskerville right now in Iran? 408 00:26:36,544 --> 00:26:40,424 Speaker 1: Like an American who's over there? No why because that 409 00:26:40,464 --> 00:26:46,904 Speaker 1: person would be thrown into a prison cell. Uh So, Um, look, 410 00:26:47,064 --> 00:26:49,744 Speaker 1: we don't need this is the thing. This is what's important. 411 00:26:50,344 --> 00:26:53,904 Speaker 1: We don't need the basketballs of today to pick up 412 00:26:53,944 --> 00:26:57,904 Speaker 1: a gun and go fight alongside the revolutionaries in Iran. 413 00:26:57,944 --> 00:26:59,504 Speaker 1: That's not what we need because we have a much 414 00:26:59,544 --> 00:27:03,984 Speaker 1: more powerful tool. Um and as as you know, you're 415 00:27:03,984 --> 00:27:06,104 Speaker 1: gonna laugh at this, but that tool is social media. 416 00:27:06,304 --> 00:27:08,904 Speaker 1: That tool is our voice. You told me this, this 417 00:27:08,944 --> 00:27:13,424 Speaker 1: is shocking. But then I've heard all of these Iranian revolutionaries. 418 00:27:13,584 --> 00:27:17,024 Speaker 1: They're all saying that the main thing Americans should be 419 00:27:17,024 --> 00:27:22,304 Speaker 1: doing is going on Instagram and amplifying voices of protesters, 420 00:27:22,304 --> 00:27:25,384 Speaker 1: which is the exact opposite exactly, it's the exact opposite 421 00:27:25,384 --> 00:27:27,864 Speaker 1: of what we all in the privileged world think, Like, ah, 422 00:27:27,904 --> 00:27:32,464 Speaker 1: you slacktivist, you really you really think you're doing something 423 00:27:33,624 --> 00:27:38,104 Speaker 1: we in the privileged world can laugh at slacktivism. But 424 00:27:38,184 --> 00:27:40,304 Speaker 1: if you have no voice, if you live in a 425 00:27:40,344 --> 00:27:43,784 Speaker 1: country in which the tyrant can shut down, you know, 426 00:27:43,824 --> 00:27:45,864 Speaker 1: turn off the lights and kill everybody at any time, 427 00:27:46,624 --> 00:27:52,224 Speaker 1: then your survival depends on slacktivism. Your survival depends on 428 00:27:52,264 --> 00:27:56,544 Speaker 1: that tweet. A tyrant stays in power by isolating his 429 00:27:56,744 --> 00:28:00,384 Speaker 1: people from the rest of the world. Right now, that 430 00:28:00,464 --> 00:28:04,824 Speaker 1: tyrant is telling the Iranian people go home, get off 431 00:28:04,824 --> 00:28:07,504 Speaker 1: the streets, nothing's going to change. You can yell as 432 00:28:07,584 --> 00:28:11,224 Speaker 1: much as you want to. Nobody hears you. Nobody cares. 433 00:28:12,304 --> 00:28:16,984 Speaker 1: And what we are saying is we hear you. That's 434 00:28:16,984 --> 00:28:19,264 Speaker 1: a far more powerful than a twenty two year old 435 00:28:19,264 --> 00:28:21,664 Speaker 1: missionary with a gun. I did that on Twitter too. 436 00:28:21,704 --> 00:28:24,344 Speaker 1: I pretty much I'm the new Baskerville. I think that's it. 437 00:28:24,384 --> 00:28:28,024 Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, it's a heavy burden, but you 438 00:28:28,064 --> 00:28:30,704 Speaker 1: wear it well. Thank you. I wanted to say that, 439 00:28:30,744 --> 00:28:33,624 Speaker 1: but I didn't want to brag. Reza Aslin wrote the 440 00:28:33,664 --> 00:28:37,144 Speaker 1: new book An American Martyr im Persia, the epic life 441 00:28:37,264 --> 00:28:40,984 Speaker 1: and tragic death of Howard Baskerville. Thank you so much 442 00:28:41,024 --> 00:28:43,824 Speaker 1: for joining us, Reza my pleasure. Thanks for having me 443 00:28:44,744 --> 00:28:48,024 Speaker 1: upon Reza's suggestion. I found two women who are protesting 444 00:28:48,024 --> 00:28:50,744 Speaker 1: in Iran and asked them to write essays that I 445 00:28:50,864 --> 00:28:54,184 Speaker 1: then posted my weekly column on Medium. Honestly, they were 446 00:28:54,224 --> 00:28:56,944 Speaker 1: both a little light on jokes, but their pieces were 447 00:28:57,064 --> 00:28:59,904 Speaker 1: much more compelling than mine are. I don't know if 448 00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:01,984 Speaker 1: doing that helped. I don't know if it made me 449 00:29:02,064 --> 00:29:06,064 Speaker 1: part of the white savior industrial complex, or maybe bragging 450 00:29:06,104 --> 00:29:09,584 Speaker 1: about it now on this podcast does Just know that 451 00:29:09,704 --> 00:29:13,744 Speaker 1: doing it was really really easy. I didn't even suffer 452 00:29:13,824 --> 00:29:17,344 Speaker 1: through any angry comments afterwards, which also made it different 453 00:29:17,344 --> 00:29:20,944 Speaker 1: than my usual columns. The one thing I am sure of, though, 454 00:29:21,704 --> 00:29:24,304 Speaker 1: it's that it's made me a little bit hotter. To 455 00:29:24,424 --> 00:29:31,984 Speaker 1: reza Aslack at the end of the show, what's next 456 00:29:32,024 --> 00:29:36,144 Speaker 1: for Joel Stein? Maybe he'll take a nap poke around online. 457 00:29:36,504 --> 00:29:39,504 Speaker 1: Our show Today was produced by Kate mcculiffe and Nish 458 00:29:39,504 --> 00:29:43,584 Speaker 1: event Cutt. It was edited by Robert Smith. Our engineer 459 00:29:43,744 --> 00:29:48,944 Speaker 1: is Amanda kay Wang and our executive producer is Katherine Sirado. 460 00:29:49,384 --> 00:29:52,024 Speaker 1: And our theme song was written and performed by Jonathan 461 00:29:52,064 --> 00:29:55,024 Speaker 1: Colton and a special thanks to my voice coach Vicky 462 00:29:55,104 --> 00:29:59,064 Speaker 1: Merrick and my consulting producer laurenz Alasna to find more 463 00:29:59,104 --> 00:30:03,824 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcast listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 464 00:30:03,864 --> 00:30:07,304 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein and 465 00:30:07,424 --> 00:30:10,064 Speaker 1: this is the Story of the Week. And what does 466 00:30:10,104 --> 00:30:17,304 Speaker 1: Howard Baskerville look like? Timothy Shallotte me, Wow, now that's 467 00:30:17,304 --> 00:30:20,384 Speaker 1: just you're just trying to selve this as a movie. Yes, 468 00:30:20,464 --> 00:30:24,264 Speaker 1: that was crap. Yes I am. If you're listening, Timothy 469 00:30:26,104 --> 00:30:29,264 Speaker 1: coming up on Story of the Week. The problem with 470 00:30:29,424 --> 00:30:31,664 Speaker 1: being a dark web drug lord is that you can't 471 00:30:31,824 --> 00:30:34,984 Speaker 1: brag about it to anyone in your real life. And 472 00:30:35,024 --> 00:30:37,904 Speaker 1: I think that that creates this kind of like loneliness 473 00:30:37,984 --> 00:30:40,944 Speaker 1: or like this anyway, this sort of like psychological problem 474 00:30:40,984 --> 00:30:42,784 Speaker 1: that you are incredibly good at what you do and 475 00:30:42,904 --> 00:30:45,824 Speaker 1: you can't tell anybody