WEBVTT - Suze Orman: From Waitress to Financial Guru 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:25.276 Pushkin. Susie Orman, the myth, the legend. The woman has 0:00:25.276 --> 0:00:28.876 been around pretty much my entire life, popping up everywhere 0:00:28.916 --> 0:00:31.916 as in money Guru. She was hosted The Suzie Orman 0:00:31.996 --> 0:00:34.996 Show on CNBC for over a decade and was one 0:00:34.996 --> 0:00:38.676 of the most recurring guests on Oprah Winfrey's network shows, 0:00:38.996 --> 0:00:43.756 which I can't overstate how incredible that is. Susie was 0:00:43.876 --> 0:00:48.316 everywhere and still is, from podcasts to magazines to mainstream 0:00:48.356 --> 0:00:51.316 cable news, giving people advice on what they should do 0:00:51.356 --> 0:00:55.356 with their money. That level of expertise in this field 0:00:55.756 --> 0:00:59.556 really intimidates me. I thought, by talking to Susie Orman, 0:00:59.676 --> 0:01:02.876 I'd feel judged and small for my lack of financial knowhow, 0:01:02.996 --> 0:01:06.956 which is really lacking and is really small. But it 0:01:06.996 --> 0:01:10.356 turns out that Susie Ormand is not just smart, She's 0:01:10.396 --> 0:01:13.796 not judgmental at all. She's a super soulful person with 0:01:13.876 --> 0:01:17.636 a story that completely shocked me. And if I could 0:01:17.636 --> 0:01:20.276 wish anything for myself and anyone listening to the show, 0:01:20.556 --> 0:01:22.836 it's that we'd be less afraid to take big swings 0:01:22.876 --> 0:01:26.876 in life. And Susie she certainly put fear asides several 0:01:26.916 --> 0:01:31.916 times to take a couple of gigantic swings. This has 0:01:31.956 --> 0:01:35.196 started from the bottom, harder and success stories from people 0:01:35.636 --> 0:01:40.956 like us. To start a conversation, Susie tells me about 0:01:40.956 --> 0:01:47.316 her childhood in Chicago and eventually making her way to Berkeley, California. 0:01:48.196 --> 0:01:50.956 I grew up on the South side of Chicago. I 0:01:50.996 --> 0:01:53.916 grew up where my mother was the secretary sold avon 0:01:54.036 --> 0:01:57.636 on the side. My father was always sick, So I 0:01:57.716 --> 0:02:01.876 did not come from a family who when I was 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:05.556 born and whatever, had money. They had it before I 0:02:05.716 --> 0:02:08.476 was born, and then something legally happened that I still 0:02:08.476 --> 0:02:11.356 don't understand to this day. They lost everything. So by 0:02:11.356 --> 0:02:14.436 the time I came around, they had nothing, and my 0:02:14.596 --> 0:02:18.476 mother early fifties, was working. No other mothers worked at 0:02:18.476 --> 0:02:21.436 that time, so I came from that kind of background. 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:24.596 When I went to the University of Illinois. 0:02:24.116 --> 0:02:26.796 I had to pay for it myself, so I had 0:02:26.836 --> 0:02:30.716 to work every day at the Bubbys and Zadies deli 0:02:31.196 --> 0:02:35.516 during the day and at night at the Red Lion Inn. 0:02:35.716 --> 0:02:37.836 And I worked till one or two in the morning, 0:02:37.876 --> 0:02:42.236 and all I cared about was surviving. Never got a 0:02:42.276 --> 0:02:44.876 grade above a sea I think the entire time I 0:02:44.956 --> 0:02:49.956 went to the university and What was fascinating is that 0:02:50.596 --> 0:02:54.596 I really thought that my dream job was being a waitress. 0:02:54.756 --> 0:02:57.476 I loved it. So when I ended up as a 0:02:57.516 --> 0:03:01.796 waitress at the Buttercup Bakery and making four hundred dollars 0:03:01.796 --> 0:03:06.516 a month, I stayed a waitress from the age really 0:03:06.556 --> 0:03:09.516 of like twenty, you know, twenty two, all the out 0:03:09.556 --> 0:03:10.716 twenty nine or thirty. 0:03:11.236 --> 0:03:14.836 Yeah, So the Buttercup Bakery in Berkeley, California, you're living there, 0:03:14.916 --> 0:03:17.516 You've dropped out of college, and you're waiting tables for 0:03:17.556 --> 0:03:18.756 what about nine years? 0:03:18.756 --> 0:03:20.596 Eight nine years, eight nine years. 0:03:20.596 --> 0:03:23.956 So it never dawned on me that I would be 0:03:24.036 --> 0:03:26.276 able to make money, that I was supposed to be 0:03:26.436 --> 0:03:30.436 anything other than a waitress. That wasn't my ambition. My 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:35.356 ambition was to just get by. I didn't even have 0:03:35.436 --> 0:03:38.556 credit cards then, right, But you know it's a you know, 0:03:38.676 --> 0:03:42.316 it's I didn't have any money when when something broke down, 0:03:42.916 --> 0:03:45.676 you know, I don't even know how I paid for it. 0:03:45.756 --> 0:03:48.556 So I had no ambition. 0:03:48.916 --> 0:03:51.796 It is very important to highlight because the Susie Ormond 0:03:51.876 --> 0:03:54.796 we know today it seems very different from the suits 0:03:54.796 --> 0:03:58.596 the early to late twenties. Susie Ormond who was content 0:03:58.676 --> 0:04:04.756 to be a waitress. And it really highlights that ambition, discipline, 0:04:05.236 --> 0:04:08.676 and all the other sort of ingredients for success aren't 0:04:08.716 --> 0:04:11.916 necessary things that you are have to be born with. 0:04:11.996 --> 0:04:14.236 These are things you can you can learn and develop. 0:04:14.796 --> 0:04:19.236 And I'm curious how you started to develop, how your 0:04:19.236 --> 0:04:20.236 ambition developed. 0:04:20.516 --> 0:04:24.036 Yeah, so what happened was here. It is nineteen seventy 0:04:24.116 --> 0:04:28.836 nine and the Buttercup Bakery. When I first started, it 0:04:28.876 --> 0:04:33.036 was on College and Alcatraz College Avenue in Alcatraz was 0:04:33.076 --> 0:04:37.236 this little tiny place that you couldn't even really sit down. 0:04:37.316 --> 0:04:39.996 You would come in, get a cup of coffee and whatever, 0:04:40.076 --> 0:04:44.036 and leave. Because of my ideas and the things I said, 0:04:44.076 --> 0:04:45.796 why don't we do this? Why don't we do that? 0:04:46.276 --> 0:04:49.436 Before you knew it, they owned half the block. And 0:04:49.516 --> 0:04:54.036 I'm sitting there going, oh great, my ideas have caused 0:04:54.036 --> 0:04:56.876 these people to become very wealthy and I'm still making 0:04:56.916 --> 0:04:59.676 four hundred dollars a month. What's wrong with this equation? 0:04:59.796 --> 0:05:03.476 I thought, I know, I can open up my own restaurant. 0:05:04.156 --> 0:05:07.676 So I mistakenly called up my mom and I asked 0:05:07.676 --> 0:05:11.316 her for twenty thousand dollars. And the reason that I 0:05:11.356 --> 0:05:14.476 say mistakenly justin is my mother didn't have twenty thousand 0:05:14.476 --> 0:05:18.196 dollars to their name. My father was now really really 0:05:18.236 --> 0:05:21.196 ill at this time, and she felt so bad because 0:05:21.236 --> 0:05:23.556 she couldn't give it to me. And there isn't a 0:05:23.716 --> 0:05:28.996 mother in this world that doesn't want to help their 0:05:29.436 --> 0:05:34.276 daughters in particular. And so I went to work the 0:05:34.316 --> 0:05:37.116 next morning, and a man by the name of Fred Hasbrick, 0:05:37.156 --> 0:05:40.516 who I've been waiting on for all seven years, came 0:05:40.556 --> 0:05:42.996 in and he said, what's wrong, Sunshine, you don't look happy. 0:05:43.396 --> 0:05:47.036 I told him the story. He went back and sat 0:05:47.076 --> 0:05:50.156 with all the other gentlemen that I've been waiting on 0:05:50.236 --> 0:05:53.636 for all of these years. They were like my family, 0:05:54.196 --> 0:05:57.276 This was their stop before they went on to their jobs, 0:05:57.316 --> 0:06:00.516 and none of them are wealthy. Fred was a salesman 0:06:00.556 --> 0:06:05.836 who sold little tiny tape recorders, and so before he left, 0:06:06.236 --> 0:06:09.036 he came up to the counter and on the count 0:06:09.116 --> 0:06:13.836 owner he put all this papers and checks, and they 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:20.676 were commitments and actual checks totaling fifty thousand dollars, with 0:06:20.916 --> 0:06:24.036 a little note on a napkin that said, this is 0:06:24.036 --> 0:06:26.996 for people like you to be paid back in ten 0:06:27.116 --> 0:06:30.996 years with no interest, if you can. I didn't know 0:06:31.036 --> 0:06:32.636 what to do with that. Kind of money. I said 0:06:32.676 --> 0:06:34.676 to him, are the checks going to bounce like all 0:06:34.796 --> 0:06:35.276 mind you? 0:06:36.236 --> 0:06:38.276 And he said no, Susie. 0:06:38.516 --> 0:06:41.676 He said, go down to the local Merrill Lynch office, 0:06:42.196 --> 0:06:44.476 open up a money market account and will help you 0:06:44.556 --> 0:06:48.396 from there. Problem was And I said to him, I 0:06:48.396 --> 0:06:50.236 don't know what Merrill Lynch is, and I don't know 0:06:50.236 --> 0:06:53.316 what a money market account was. He told me, for 0:06:53.476 --> 0:06:56.436 those of you who may not know, Merrill Lynch is 0:06:56.796 --> 0:07:00.036 a brokerage firm where people go and they buy and 0:07:00.076 --> 0:07:05.036 sell stocks. They have financial advisors, very reputable, truthfully, and 0:07:05.476 --> 0:07:09.716 a money market account is what was coming along that 0:07:09.796 --> 0:07:13.436 were replacing savings accounts. So I was to put that 0:07:13.516 --> 0:07:16.116 money in a money market account until they could help me. 0:07:16.676 --> 0:07:19.916 I walked into Merrill Lynch. I was met by Randy, 0:07:20.236 --> 0:07:22.556 who was the broker of the day. He met all 0:07:22.596 --> 0:07:25.556 the new people that came in. He had me sign 0:07:25.716 --> 0:07:29.316 paperwork of blank papers. I didn't even know what I 0:07:29.396 --> 0:07:31.756 was signing, and he said, how would you like to 0:07:31.756 --> 0:07:33.636 make it quick? Hundred dollars a week, and I said, 0:07:33.676 --> 0:07:38.076 of course. I left. And what I didn't know is 0:07:38.076 --> 0:07:40.996 that Randy filled out that paperwork to make it look 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:44.716 like I was a very sophisticated investor with a lot 0:07:44.756 --> 0:07:48.876 of money, and I could speculate and started to invest 0:07:48.956 --> 0:07:52.116 all fifty thousand dollars in what's called the options market, 0:07:52.476 --> 0:07:55.556 the most speculative thing you can do with money, buying 0:07:55.636 --> 0:07:58.196 options because ninety percent of all people who do so 0:07:58.396 --> 0:08:03.036 lose money. Within three months, all fifty thousand dollars was lost. 0:08:03.956 --> 0:08:05.916 Now I didn't know what was I going to do. 0:08:06.036 --> 0:08:09.316 I needed to pay back these people, even though they, 0:08:09.876 --> 0:08:12.916 you know, told me I didn't have to. And so 0:08:13.156 --> 0:08:15.556 I thought, I know I can be a broker. They 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:18.676 just make you broker. Got dressed in my red and 0:08:18.676 --> 0:08:22.276 white striped sants soon pants, tucked into my white cowboy 0:08:22.396 --> 0:08:25.676 boots with a blue silk shirt, the fanciest outfit I had. 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:29.516 I was a sly size six back then. That's the 0:08:29.596 --> 0:08:31.236 only thing that I wish I could go back to. 0:08:31.276 --> 0:08:34.476 But that is besides the point. And I went into 0:08:34.556 --> 0:08:37.316 Merrill Lynch and before I knew it, I was in 0:08:37.436 --> 0:08:41.476 the manager's office. His name is Peterson san Severo, and 0:08:42.036 --> 0:08:46.396 he literally said to me, you know that, in his opinion, 0:08:46.516 --> 0:08:50.636 women belong barefoot and pregnant. But he would hire me, 0:08:51.076 --> 0:08:55.236 but in six months he would fire me, and obviously 0:08:55.276 --> 0:08:58.396 he was hiring me to fill their women's quota because 0:08:58.436 --> 0:09:02.676 it was affirmative action. Being the Susie Ormond that I 0:09:02.716 --> 0:09:05.956 am today that I was still back then on some level. 0:09:06.676 --> 0:09:07.876 I said to him, how much are you going to 0:09:07.956 --> 0:09:12.596 pay to make me pregnant? And he said fifteen hundred 0:09:12.676 --> 0:09:15.676 dollars a month? So it didn't take me long to 0:09:15.716 --> 0:09:18.556 figure out fifteen hundred a month. Time six was nine 0:09:18.596 --> 0:09:19.436 thousand dollars. 0:09:19.676 --> 0:09:20.396 That's two and a. 0:09:20.396 --> 0:09:24.516 Half years at the Buttercup Akery. Almost wow, right to 0:09:24.636 --> 0:09:27.276 make that kind of money, So I said, but fine. 0:09:28.396 --> 0:09:31.236 What qualifications did you have at that point to work there? 0:09:32.596 --> 0:09:35.476 So no, So you literally imagine that you were given 0:09:35.516 --> 0:09:37.036 the job simply to fill the quota. 0:09:37.396 --> 0:09:38.836 You got that, right, boyfriend. 0:09:39.436 --> 0:09:42.236 The level then for you to get to to put 0:09:42.276 --> 0:09:45.436 on a suit and walk into Merrill Lynch with no 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:48.836 background in this that's the amazing part. It's almost not 0:09:48.876 --> 0:09:50.596 even that you got the job, that you had the 0:09:51.996 --> 0:09:57.156 audacity to walk in there, and how did you think 0:09:57.196 --> 0:09:57.956 that was going to go? 0:09:58.956 --> 0:10:00.796 Well? I didn't care so much. 0:10:00.916 --> 0:10:01.156 All. 0:10:01.596 --> 0:10:05.236 I didn't care about me. I cared about the people 0:10:05.316 --> 0:10:10.476 that gave me this money more than myself because Fred 0:10:10.716 --> 0:10:13.956 he couldn't afford to lose two thousand dollars, and they 0:10:13.996 --> 0:10:18.756 all had faith in me. And because of them, not 0:10:18.996 --> 0:10:24.556 my audacity, my desire to honor them, I knew I 0:10:24.596 --> 0:10:28.476 had to do something, and that wasn't going to be 0:10:28.756 --> 0:10:30.956 a waitress for the rest of my life to pay 0:10:31.076 --> 0:10:34.636 fifty thousand dollars back. 0:10:35.836 --> 0:10:39.156 More Susie Orman. After this quick break. 0:10:48.916 --> 0:10:54.036 Those three months that Randy was trading options, I started 0:10:54.036 --> 0:10:58.956 to read what he was doing, and watching Wall Street 0:10:58.956 --> 0:11:04.316 Week on PBS and reading barons and going, oh, I 0:11:04.396 --> 0:11:06.436 get this, I understand this. 0:11:06.796 --> 0:11:10.436 He's going to lose all my money in some level. 0:11:10.556 --> 0:11:13.996 By the time those three months passed, justin I knew 0:11:14.436 --> 0:11:18.356 more than I ever thought I would know. And when 0:11:18.356 --> 0:11:20.916 they hired me, he told me he was going to 0:11:21.036 --> 0:11:25.236 fire me. So I didn't really care about that either, 0:11:25.716 --> 0:11:28.636 But I liked reading about it and studying to take 0:11:28.636 --> 0:11:31.636 what they called the Series seven exam, which you have 0:11:31.756 --> 0:11:34.956 to take if you're going to become a stockbroker, which 0:11:34.996 --> 0:11:38.036 is a seriously hard exam to take, the first time 0:11:38.076 --> 0:11:41.356 I took it, I flunked it, and I was in 0:11:41.396 --> 0:11:43.156 New York. They send you to New York. I was 0:11:43.196 --> 0:11:46.476 scared to death to go there, but they send you there. 0:11:47.036 --> 0:11:50.476 And after I flunked it, like I think six people 0:11:50.476 --> 0:11:53.396 out of hundreds flunked it. I was one of them. 0:11:53.156 --> 0:11:56.116 And then you have one week to study and try 0:11:56.156 --> 0:11:58.636 to pass it again. The second time. I passed it. 0:11:59.156 --> 0:12:02.196 But I'm telling you all this because you have to know. 0:12:02.956 --> 0:12:07.276 I wasn't a brainchild, and so it was hard work 0:12:07.316 --> 0:12:10.276 and determination that that. It was like, all right, this 0:12:10.316 --> 0:12:13.196 is a test from God to see if I really 0:12:13.276 --> 0:12:16.276 want this, and I wanted it to pay back other people. 0:12:16.676 --> 0:12:20.916 So I then passed the exam. Now I'm a stockbroker. 0:12:21.436 --> 0:12:25.036 Now I'm scared to death because I don't belong with 0:12:25.076 --> 0:12:28.036 these one hundred and five men, not one other woman 0:12:28.516 --> 0:12:31.916 in the whole place. I'm still driving a sixty seven Vovo. 0:12:31.996 --> 0:12:37.636 They're driving nineteen eighty Mercedes and BMW's. That's when I 0:12:37.876 --> 0:12:42.116 learned that I needed to create a new truth because 0:12:42.156 --> 0:12:46.356 I was afraid I didn't you know, I didn't belong there. 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:50.996 I didn't come from their world. So I decided to 0:12:51.076 --> 0:12:53.876 create a truth that when I would be shivering going 0:12:53.916 --> 0:12:57.036 to work, I could say to hopefully calm me down. 0:12:57.116 --> 0:13:00.916 And the new truth went like this, I am young, powerful, 0:13:00.956 --> 0:13:05.596 and successful, producing at least ten thousand dollars a month. 0:13:06.036 --> 0:13:10.596 I wasn't so young. I was thirty now right powerful. 0:13:10.636 --> 0:13:13.316 I was the most powerless thing you ever could have imagined. 0:13:14.316 --> 0:13:18.356 So I was young, powerful, no successful. I don't think 0:13:18.436 --> 0:13:23.316 so nothing about it, producing at least ten thousand dollars 0:13:23.396 --> 0:13:26.596 a month, because I decided if God wanted to give 0:13:26.636 --> 0:13:29.356 me more than ten thousand dollars a month, because I 0:13:29.436 --> 0:13:30.956 knew he had to do it for me, because I 0:13:30.996 --> 0:13:33.636 wasn't going to be able to do it right that 0:13:33.636 --> 0:13:37.796 that why limit myself to ten thousand dollars. For six 0:13:37.916 --> 0:13:41.516 months after I had passed my Series seven and became 0:13:41.636 --> 0:13:45.916 a broker, I wrote it twenty five times a day. 0:13:46.996 --> 0:13:50.916 I screamed it in the card out loud twenty five 0:13:50.956 --> 0:13:54.556 times going to work, and at night, before I went 0:13:54.556 --> 0:13:57.636 to bed, I looked in the mirror, looking back at myself, 0:13:57.676 --> 0:14:04.276 and I said it silently. Six months later, all those 0:14:04.356 --> 0:14:07.756 truths that I said came true. 0:14:07.956 --> 0:14:12.036 You were hired to be fired. But yes, within the 0:14:12.116 --> 0:14:16.596 six months that you felt like you were on the line, 0:14:16.676 --> 0:14:19.076 you love the firing line. You turned out to be 0:14:19.276 --> 0:14:20.316 a great stockbroker. 0:14:21.276 --> 0:14:28.476 Yes, But while I was working for Merrill Lynch. I 0:14:28.636 --> 0:14:31.716 myself am gay and have been my entire life, and 0:14:32.076 --> 0:14:36.476 the head of operations was also a gay man, and 0:14:36.876 --> 0:14:40.436 we were the only two in this gigantic office that 0:14:40.556 --> 0:14:44.116 had this in common. So of course we gravitated to 0:14:44.156 --> 0:14:47.476 each other. And I did not hide it from anybody 0:14:47.516 --> 0:14:51.716 that I was gay. I never have. And so he 0:14:51.916 --> 0:14:55.116 said to me one day, Susie, what happened to you 0:14:55.196 --> 0:14:59.956 here at Merrill Lynch wasn't quite legal and all the 0:15:00.036 --> 0:15:04.156 lawsuits went through this man, and he said, you know, 0:15:04.476 --> 0:15:08.516 you might want to go into my office after I 0:15:08.636 --> 0:15:11.396 leave today. I've told my secretary you might do. So 0:15:12.036 --> 0:15:15.956 look at the drawer bottom drawer to your left, and 0:15:16.156 --> 0:15:18.156 you figure out why I want you to do that. 0:15:18.156 --> 0:15:20.716 That's all I can tell you. I go in his 0:15:20.836 --> 0:15:25.076 office that day, say hi to his secretary, Sit down, 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:29.796 open the drawer and there's all these Manila file folders 0:15:30.596 --> 0:15:34.676 that say on them lose, lose. 0:15:34.436 --> 0:15:36.276 Lose, win, win, win, win. 0:15:37.116 --> 0:15:39.916 And I start looking at him, and the ones that 0:15:39.996 --> 0:15:44.796 say win are lawsuits that are being brought against Merrill Lynch, 0:15:45.236 --> 0:15:50.436 most of them by this one attorney. I call this attorney, 0:15:50.436 --> 0:15:52.676 and I'm so sorry. I can't even remember his name 0:15:52.716 --> 0:15:57.396 to this day. Told him my story. He says to me, 0:15:58.076 --> 0:16:00.956 I'll take this case on contingency. I said, well, what 0:16:00.996 --> 0:16:04.516 the hell is that? And he said, it's where it's 0:16:04.516 --> 0:16:07.876 not going to cost you anything if we lose. If 0:16:07.916 --> 0:16:11.476 we win, I get thirty percent of whatever the settlement is. 0:16:12.916 --> 0:16:16.036 So I said, great, we sue Merrill Lynch. 0:16:15.756 --> 0:16:18.156 While you're working, Well, you're working. 0:16:17.876 --> 0:16:21.796 While I'm working them because justin I knew it would 0:16:21.836 --> 0:16:26.156 be easy for me to say nothing and just sit there, 0:16:26.996 --> 0:16:31.276 but would not have been right. What if it was 0:16:31.316 --> 0:16:34.996 my mom and all her money she put in there 0:16:35.036 --> 0:16:39.676 and she got a quick and broker. So I decided, no, 0:16:39.956 --> 0:16:42.956 this wasn't right and I needed to do something about it. 0:16:43.276 --> 0:16:46.076 And again I felt like it was a sign that 0:16:46.316 --> 0:16:50.956 the operations manager was telling me this. So because I 0:16:51.076 --> 0:16:55.276 see Merrill Lynch, they could not fire me. Who knew. 0:16:55.316 --> 0:17:00.676 Two years later, when the suit came to court, a 0:17:00.836 --> 0:17:05.036 new manager came in and he looked at everything and 0:17:05.036 --> 0:17:08.836 he said, Susie, this is ridiculous. We're set. We're going 0:17:08.876 --> 0:17:11.716 to say this with you. And they gave me enough 0:17:11.876 --> 0:17:14.996 money to pay back all the people that let me 0:17:15.116 --> 0:17:18.876 money plus eighteen percent interest, and so I was able 0:17:18.916 --> 0:17:21.196 to do that, and the rest is kind of history. 0:17:21.756 --> 0:17:27.316 Now, the original reason you were lunch to fifty thousand 0:17:27.556 --> 0:17:30.196 was to open up a restaurant of your own. By 0:17:30.476 --> 0:17:34.356 that point, was that still a desire of yours? No? 0:17:34.516 --> 0:17:38.636 Because I loved what I was learning. I loved that 0:17:38.836 --> 0:17:42.116 Every Tuesday there would be a sales meeting at one 0:17:42.196 --> 0:17:46.596 o'clock in California. The market closed at one, and I 0:17:46.636 --> 0:17:49.236 would be there and they would be, you know, they 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:51.276 would be telling you what they wanted you to buy 0:17:51.396 --> 0:17:55.796 and sell, and I was understanding it all right. So 0:17:55.956 --> 0:17:59.476 I was always honest with what I knew and what 0:17:59.556 --> 0:18:03.516 I didn't know. And because I knew I didn't know, 0:18:05.036 --> 0:18:09.356 I was open to learning from people who really did know. 0:18:09.596 --> 0:18:14.196 And over time I started to be one of those people. 0:18:15.196 --> 0:18:20.276 The way you are describing yourself is the antithesis of 0:18:20.316 --> 0:18:26.636 the way we imagine powerful wealthy folks to We don't 0:18:26.676 --> 0:18:29.916 expect powerful multi folks to admit when they don't know something. 0:18:30.476 --> 0:18:32.756 Is that solid advice? Did not admit when you don't 0:18:32.756 --> 0:18:34.236 know something just to continue to. 0:18:34.356 --> 0:18:39.116 No, it's solid advice, because you know why, when you 0:18:39.196 --> 0:18:44.236 stand in your truth, everybody can feel it when you 0:18:44.316 --> 0:18:47.756 tell a lie. They can feel that as well. But 0:18:47.796 --> 0:18:50.156 they don't want to believe that you're lying, but they 0:18:50.196 --> 0:18:55.396 know something isn't quite right. What makes you truly powerful 0:18:55.516 --> 0:19:00.316 in life is that every word that comes out of 0:19:00.356 --> 0:19:04.276 your mouth is the truth. Because there is a law 0:19:04.476 --> 0:19:09.356 of money that I realized years ago, which is is 0:19:10.076 --> 0:19:17.436 power attracts money and powerlessness repels it. It's people that 0:19:17.636 --> 0:19:21.076 hire you, it's people that give you a pay raise. 0:19:22.116 --> 0:19:27.396 So people are attracted to power. They can feel it 0:19:27.436 --> 0:19:30.956 in you. What renders you the most powerful is when 0:19:30.996 --> 0:19:35.636 you stand in your truth. What renders you the most 0:19:35.676 --> 0:19:40.356 powerless are two things. Number One, when you stand in 0:19:40.396 --> 0:19:44.516 a lie, when what you tell people is a lie. 0:19:45.556 --> 0:19:49.996 And also another form of a lie when it comes 0:19:50.076 --> 0:19:54.756 to money is debt. When you have debt, I'm not 0:19:54.836 --> 0:19:58.756 talking about car loan debt, mortgage debt, or student loan debt. 0:19:59.076 --> 0:20:04.756 When you have credit card debt, you are standing in 0:20:04.796 --> 0:20:09.396 a lie because you are spending money. You don't even 0:20:09.516 --> 0:20:13.036 have to impress people in most cases that you don't 0:20:13.036 --> 0:20:17.596 even know or like. Now, obviously there are exceptions to 0:20:17.636 --> 0:20:20.396 that rule because of medical expenses and things like that, 0:20:20.436 --> 0:20:24.636 but the majority of debt that people have on their 0:20:24.676 --> 0:20:29.756 credit cards, going out to eat, buying clothes, going on vacations, 0:20:29.796 --> 0:20:34.036 doing all kinds of things like that, And that is 0:20:34.116 --> 0:20:37.796 a lie because you don't have the money to pay 0:20:37.836 --> 0:20:42.116 for it. So debt is bondage. Debt is a lie 0:20:42.276 --> 0:20:46.196 in most cases. So the most the thing that renders 0:20:46.236 --> 0:20:50.156 you the most powerful is standing in your truth. 0:20:52.596 --> 0:20:55.236 Where do Susan ormand get all that courage from? She 0:20:55.316 --> 0:20:57.036 talks about it when we come back. 0:21:09.196 --> 0:21:11.316 I loved that I was a lesbian and it was 0:21:11.356 --> 0:21:15.196 not easy to be a lesbian in the sixties. Imagine 0:21:15.276 --> 0:21:19.076 going to high school, you know, from like you know, 0:21:19.156 --> 0:21:21.596 sixty four to sixty nine, or well sixty five to 0:21:21.636 --> 0:21:24.716 sixty nine, and also in grammar school when I already 0:21:24.796 --> 0:21:28.636 knew that I was a lesbian, and you know, there 0:21:28.676 --> 0:21:32.716 weren't gay rates rights back then. You know, none of 0:21:32.716 --> 0:21:35.476 this really happened. It happened started to happen in nineteen 0:21:35.516 --> 0:21:41.836 sixty nine. Really, But I always told everybody I was gay. 0:21:41.956 --> 0:21:43.436 Where did you get that courage from? 0:21:44.196 --> 0:21:47.276 I got that courage because I didn't know better. I think, 0:21:47.676 --> 0:21:50.876 you know, it wasn't like at first, obviously, when I 0:21:50.956 --> 0:21:54.196 first started to realize it that I went around telling everybody. 0:21:54.996 --> 0:22:00.316 But when I went to college, I went to a 0:22:00.396 --> 0:22:04.956 gay liberation meeting there because I knew it, and I 0:22:05.036 --> 0:22:09.716 realized that gay men were very different than lesbians. And 0:22:10.276 --> 0:22:13.876 that's when I decided, I have to do something about this. 0:22:14.996 --> 0:22:19.516 We need to break off from gay men. And so 0:22:20.156 --> 0:22:26.356 with my friends, I started the Gay Women's House in Champagne, Illinois, 0:22:27.116 --> 0:22:30.756 and the University of Illinois arranged all these talks for me, 0:22:31.156 --> 0:22:33.556 and I would go to Paxton, Illinois and all these 0:22:33.596 --> 0:22:39.156 places that were so behind the times and talk about 0:22:39.156 --> 0:22:46.236 it and nobody ever rejected me or treated me poorly. 0:22:46.356 --> 0:22:51.156 And then at Merrill Lynch, when I told everybody I 0:22:51.276 --> 0:22:55.996 was gay, right, they didn't care. I mean, when somebody 0:22:56.036 --> 0:23:00.316 had a birthday, they would have these women's strippers come in, 0:23:01.596 --> 0:23:06.676 and they thought I would enjoy that, you know, and 0:23:06.876 --> 0:23:10.676 I was just like whatever, But you know, justin even 0:23:10.796 --> 0:23:14.676 when I got my first big contract for my book 0:23:15.356 --> 0:23:17.316 that I got not the you know, my first book 0:23:17.396 --> 0:23:19.316 was You've earned it, don't lose it. The second book 0:23:19.396 --> 0:23:21.876 is what gave me a you know, big contract. It 0:23:21.916 --> 0:23:24.476 was eight hundred thousand dollars and I thought, who's going 0:23:24.516 --> 0:23:26.596 to pay me eight hundred thousand dollars to somebody who 0:23:26.636 --> 0:23:29.476 doesn't even know how to write. So I went into 0:23:29.876 --> 0:23:33.156 Chip Gibson, who was president of Crown Publishing at the time, 0:23:33.716 --> 0:23:36.436 and I said, Chip, I can't take this kind of 0:23:36.476 --> 0:23:39.716 money without you knowing two things about me. Number One, 0:23:39.756 --> 0:23:42.396 I don't know how to write, and he said, oh great, 0:23:42.476 --> 0:23:44.236 find me a writer who knows that they don't know 0:23:44.236 --> 0:23:48.196 how to write. And number two, I'm a lesbian and 0:23:48.236 --> 0:23:50.276 he said, well, tell me something I don't know. 0:23:50.756 --> 0:23:51.756 Why did you tell him that? 0:23:52.796 --> 0:23:56.476 Because if I was on interviews and asked if I 0:23:56.676 --> 0:24:00.756 was gay, I was going to I wasn't going to lie. 0:24:01.396 --> 0:24:03.836 It seems like so many of the ingredients for your 0:24:03.836 --> 0:24:07.836 success were they're early from your standing in your truth, 0:24:07.916 --> 0:24:10.196 like knowing who you were, not being afraid of who 0:24:10.236 --> 0:24:13.276 you were, not being afraid to acknowledge what you don't know, 0:24:13.556 --> 0:24:16.796 And there certainly must have been some underlying level of ambition, 0:24:16.876 --> 0:24:20.276 even if it was dormant. Why do you think why 0:24:20.316 --> 0:24:22.196 do you think it took until thirty, which is still 0:24:22.196 --> 0:24:24.796 relatively young, but rather than twenty. Why do you think 0:24:24.796 --> 0:24:28.076 it took until thirty for these sorts of ingredients to 0:24:28.076 --> 0:24:31.116 start coming together to create a level of financial success. 0:24:31.316 --> 0:24:34.996 Well, because I loved my life as a waitress. The 0:24:35.036 --> 0:24:38.036 person that I admired the most in life was a 0:24:38.036 --> 0:24:41.156 woman by the name of Helen. Helen had red hair 0:24:41.196 --> 0:24:43.716 and a beehive on top of her head and smoked 0:24:43.716 --> 0:24:48.596 a cigarette, was probably sixty five or seventy, and had 0:24:48.636 --> 0:24:51.796 worked her entire life at the Buttercup restaurant, you know, 0:24:51.876 --> 0:24:56.476 the Buttercup Bakery. And I loved her and I wanted 0:24:56.476 --> 0:25:00.916 to be like her. She was my role model because 0:25:01.276 --> 0:25:04.676 she was happy and she was excited to go home 0:25:04.876 --> 0:25:09.316 to her kids or her grandkids or whatever. And I 0:25:09.356 --> 0:25:13.116 didn't look at it like I wanted money. I looked 0:25:13.116 --> 0:25:16.956 at it like I love what I do. Helen loves 0:25:16.956 --> 0:25:20.476 what she does, and look how happy she is. Yeah, 0:25:20.716 --> 0:25:25.556 so I didn't, That was my truth. Yeah, Yeah, I didn't. 0:25:25.796 --> 0:25:29.276