WEBVTT - Mailbag: Part 1 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:06.200 Today's quote, it's from the Bible. I interviewed a woman 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:11.440 running for office in the election for state Senate about 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.640 how she decided to run, how she decided specifically to 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.800 sort of go public, to go from being somebody who's 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.599 you know, living a private life and not, you know, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.960 putting herself out there to be seen and heard and 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:28.280 judged into somebody who is. And she quoted the Bible 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:33.320 and she said, there's the story about Esther who had 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.360 a fancy position inside the court, and the Jews were 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.360 in trouble because it's the Bible. Uh. And so Mordecai 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.279 from the Jews asked her to, you know, use her 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.519 position to speak to the king, and she said, I 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.199 don't have permission. And he wrote back and said, do 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.120 not think that because you were in the king's house, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.960 you alone of all the Jews, will escape. For if 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.920 you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.320 the Jews will arise from another place. But you and 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.360 your father's family will perish. And who knows but that 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.840 you have come to your royal position for such a 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:19.240 time as this. Welcome to permission to speak. The podcast 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.800 about how we talk and how we get ourselves heard 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:32.840 with me Samarbe. Today's guest is me just kidding but 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.520 sort of. My podcast producer Cat and I are doing 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.440 a mailbag episode, and um, we've broken into two halves. 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.800 For the first half, it's a lot of questions about me, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.720 but really filling in some of the gaps for you 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.200 guys of my career path. And also I think some 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.680 really foundational stuff I believe about the voice and putting 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:01.880 the voice into context. We got so many good questions 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:07.240 we decided to obviously do a massive two part episode 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.120 here and part two will drop next week. And if 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.639 you don't hear your question in this one, you might 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.880 hear it in the next one. Truly, I love you, guys, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.560 I love getting questions, and I really hope more than 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.400 anything that this episode you're about to hear in the 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.799 next one are helpful, either in specific tips that you 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.880 can apply to what's going on with you, or in 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.480 the very fact that this conversation is happening. That there 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.240 is so much to say and to discover about our 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.799 voices and our sense of power and how those two 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.240 things dance together. And I'm really left feeling like the 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.960 answer always besides giving ourselves permission, and in relation to 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:57.600 giving ourselves permission is that we need each other, and 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.120 we need each other to to listen better to each 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.280 other and to resonate and to raise your hand and 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.480 say that resonates with me. You're not alone, and to 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.120 keep each other a high five for speaking up even 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.560 when you know our voices are shaky, and even when 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.359 we're going to rock the boat because boat rocking is 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:21.480 really scary, but um, maybe the boat's gonna cap size 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.200 and maybe we'll be okay. This is mail Bag Part one. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:39.000 Good morning, Samara, Hello Catherine. I would actually, if you 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:40.960 don't mind, just like to hog the mic for a 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.440 second and open up with one of my favorite quotes 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.240 and maybe you could guess who says it. How our 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.280 voice sounds has everything to do with how our inner 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.520 voice sounds. To change the world, we must first change 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.200 how we talk to ourselves. That is the Samara bay 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.440 is m if ever. I've heard it and is a 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.720 simiar vism, and it's so relevant now. It's relevant always, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.200 but now more than ever. I'm really thinking about this 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.800 because the more you know, until I launched this podcast, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.600 I was really working one on one like that was 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.880 my jam and there is a future in which I'm working, 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.680 you know, one on many, And obviously, if there wasn't 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.520 a pandemic um, i'd already be kind of underway with that. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.479 I had a bunch of workshops like scheduled for the 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.479 spring tier. You know, this might not be obvious, but 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.960 part of the deal with working one on one versus 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:34.120 working on one on many is that the job suddenly 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.279 becomes not dealing with the person who's in front of 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.640 me with all of their uniqueness, but rather what are 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:45.360 the big pattern themes that are applicable for all of us? 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.200 And that's actually been a huge shift because, as you know, 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.039 as a one on one coach, I didn't actually have 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.280 to think. I would notice like, oh, I get you're 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.640 going to fit into this category. I see you in 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.120 unique individual human but also like you're going to fit 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.760 into this category. But now I have to be really 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.120 intentional about, like what are the categories so that I 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.440 can lead the conversation and sort of allow people to 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.560 see themselves in those categories. It's like a whole different 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.760 mindset um. But yes, one of the things that comes 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:14.960 up all the time, and that I realized I didn't 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.760 necessarily think about when I was coaching one on one. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.120 But I'm thinking about a lot now. Is that you know, 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.440 permission to speak. It is partly about the speaking, but 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.120 it's so much about the permission and that has to 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.320 do with how we talk to ourselves. It really does. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.719 And I want to just backtrack a little bit and 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.839 say congratulations to you for many things. This podcast has 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.920 gone through many a season since we first pitched pitched 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.520 this to ihearted. Um. I mean the last time we 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.240 recorded our first mail Bag episode, I was sitting in 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.320 my car, you were sitting in your your house, and 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.200 we were like, we're in the middle of this thing 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.240 right now. We can't see each other, but like it'll 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.120 be a couple of weeks and then we'll just, you know, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.440 get back to it. Well cut cut a couple of 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.560 months now, and we're still in the same situation. I'd 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.440 like to open up with this from a listener. She says, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.800 all of my life, I've had people tell me that 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.760 I'm too loud, that I speak too fast or too harshly, 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.080 and I feel seen by everything you discussed in your interviews. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.080 Sometimes I have to pause the podcast and sit down 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.200 to think for a minute, because you really lay out 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.520 and point to a lot of the issues that I've had, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.719 the things that I've been feeling but I can't really 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.679 identify with. And so it's nice to finally have someone 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:32.359 understand and to have a community that understands. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.240 you know, what can I say? I mean, you really 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.400 get it. You get it. I really do feel like 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.160 you are. You're kind of crushing the game over there. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:42.960 We have a variety of guests that have come on, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.640 and you're really connecting with people in a time where 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.920 it's really hard to stand up and use your voice 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.599 or or maybe not for some, but it's a very 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.440 very uh bonkers time. Is that the appropriate term to you? 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.880 I think that's the scientific term. Yeah, And I'm just 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.000 this podcast. I mean, you were in Good Housekeeping number 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.520 eleven for like the top twenty podcast. I mean, this 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.800 is a huge, huge moment for people to stand up 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.760 and use their voices to get what they want, to 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.640 feel heard and to feel seen. And I found I mean, 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.320 part of what that letter that you just read makes 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.400 me think of is that, like, yes, this is about 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.960 using our voices, but it's also just about feeling like 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.640 people get us. With all of the drama that does 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.880 come up with our voices, Like, we aren't going to 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.440 solve all of it in you know, in this episode. 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.680 But I mean, you know, even in the doing this podcast, 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.600 you know, listening to a podcast episode does not necessarily 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.840 solve every one of your guys, you know, drama with 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.520 like what's going on with you and what mean people 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.840 or you know, whatever thoughtless people say to you. But 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.000 to know that there's a community of people who get it, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.600 I think is actually part of the solution because we can't, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:51.920 you know, affect other people's reactions, but we can't affect 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.680 how we process it. We haven't seen each other in 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.200 person since your birthday drive by a few months ago 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.240 in May and a lovely day it was. But how 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.840 you doing? How you doing over there? I'm okay, loaded question, 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:09.520 I'm okay, Yeah, I'm okay. I mean it's been a lot. Um, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.520 you know, I feel like everybody is either overworked or 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:18.440 underworked right now. Um. We're recording this the day after 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:23.320 I did um a ask an expert video for Create 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.480 and Cultivate, and it was such an honor to be 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.760 on their platform because it's such a huge platform and 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.480 it's so many you know, like minded women. I mean, 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.240 I like to say that part of my dream client 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.079 is women on a mission and create and cultivate is 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.280 all about women trying to build the careers of their dreams, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.920 which inevitably for many of us, involves something that also 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.559 feels like it's good for the planet. It's good for 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.559 you know, the soul. It's purpose driven, as people say, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.000 quote unquote purpose driven. But I will say that doing 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.000 that version of I g Live, where I had thirty 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.160 minutes and I really had like a tight thirty of 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.920 content and I was using their slides um, which is 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:09.480 a really gorgeous like technological you know, bonus um. I 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.559 don't feel like I actually killed it in as much 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.080 of a way as I wanted to, because I'm such 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.319 an interactive person. I mean, I'm such an extrovert. I 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.960 get my energy from other people, and it didn't set 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.400 me up to do that. And you know this is 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.000 I sort of bring this up because I've been sitting 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.200 with it um, not to actually be hard on myself, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.680 but to like properly post mortem, because obviously any chance 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.320 any of us have to speak publicly is a chance 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.760 to think about, like, how are we making an impact? 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.720 Like what is it to speak publicly? And partly I 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.840 feel like check, check check. I did what I wanted 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.080 to do. And partly I'm like, oh, there were new 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.920 challenges I was not ready for, and you know, one 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.679 of them is that there was I was getting comments 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.640 the entire time, but because I had such a tight 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.160 you know, amount of time and and and a lot 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.319 of content I wanted to get through, I wasn't giving 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.040 myself permission to stop and read the comments, and thus 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.560 I was feeling disconnected from my audience. And I'm not 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.400 at my best that way. So I feel like that 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.960 is something that I that I woke up with this morning. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.640 But also that like every chance I get, whether it's 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.600 on the podcast or I'm doing you know, much looser 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.560 and more fun for me, I g lives on my 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:24.439 own social feed with you guys, uh, is like another chance, 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.760 another chance to just keep working on what it is 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.199 to be authentically ourselves in front of a microphone or 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.560 in front of other humans. I mean, I kind of 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.080 like to joke that I'm patient zero. I'm so with 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.640 everybody else here. Yes, I have expertise in a lot 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.120 of aspects of this work, but also I have not 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.560 actually been a person who has been seen and heard 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.520 by lots of people until literally February when we launched 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.880 this podcast. I recently was listening to Lisa Nichols, who's 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.480 an amazing inspirational, transformational speaker, and she uses this term 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.400 servant leadership, this idea that as leaders are job is 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.440 to be of service, right. I very much want to 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.040 be in that tradition, and I also want to be 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.160 really honest about the fact that, like the time is, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:14.360 as my podcast producer says, bonkers and um And one 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.719 of my favorite things about um Viv Groscop not when 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.200 she was on my podcast, but the thing that I 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.600 told you guys to go listen to her her Zoom 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.320 her how to Own the Zoom YouTube thing is that 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.400 she said that there are no experts in how to 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.960 function during a pandemic, and anybody who says that they are, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.679 you know, are full of it. And I really want 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.640 to just honor that you had mentioned a Roomy quote 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.240 that I just I love. Oh my god, Yes, I 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.760 posted this on on Instagram. It says, the quieter you become, 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.719 the more you're able to hear. By Roomy and Um 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.880 I wrote after permission to not speak is often just 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.640 as hard to give ourselves. Maybe it's people pleasing or 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.719 perfectionism or the hustle, but we feel like we need 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.160 to have the answers and now. And I said, I 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.160 commit to no more answers today. Uh, it's really hard. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.520 It's really hard to because also then when somebody asks 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.920 something of us, whether it's our child or you know, 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.199 a podcast listener, um, you know, producer, we all want 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.000 to be we all want to be. Yeah, totally right. 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:18.440 The day that I that I said I commit to 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.040 know more questions or no more answers, um cat called 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.760 me to like talk through some decisions and I was like, 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.760 I don't. I mean, you know, like modern life, there 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.319 are like certain requirements, but you know what, this is 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.880 an honest raw time, Like why should we in life 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.800 not be able to say I can't do this right 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.720 now or I don't want I'm working on it. I'm 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.240 actually really I'm really actively and I would love all 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.800 of us to be on this kick. Like people pleasing, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.240 the other side of it is that when we don't 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.440 please somebody, then we have to sit with what that 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.559 feels like. It's not like they're the same regardless of 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.480 whether or not we people please, they're not. That's why 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.960 we people please. We are used to doing that mental 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.600 labor so that people like us and so that people 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.959 so that everything goes smoothly. And you know, I mean, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.319 I'm just because I'm always all about the gray areas. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.960 If we don't people please, if we actually say no 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.360 when we want to say no instead of yes when 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.600 it would be easier for the other people, then suddenly 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.920 there is blowback. And then is that blowback going to 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.480 require as much mental labor to smooth over? Because if so, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.760 like I'm not incentivized to stop people pleasing, you know, 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.840 this is like this is the actual My my dad, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.080 God Blessed sent me this amazing New York Times piece 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.680 uh last week about um people pleasing in the age 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.199 of the pandemic, and it came down to, like, I mean, 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.520 I I just, oh God, I feel this so hard. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.479 It truly came down to stuff like if women historically 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.480 and traditionally and in our own lives really uh are 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.160 a little bit you know, more um likely to be 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.959 people pleasing, then like we literally are putting ourselves a 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.079 danger because if someone is less concerned about the pandemic 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.520 than we are, and says, come to brunch, it would 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.720 make me feel so much better. Then we're like literally 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.280 think life and death and also thinking people pleasing and 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.320 trying to balance like relationships versus taking care of ourselves. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.720 And this relationship versus self is this like really deep 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.439 psychological you know thing. I mean, men are supposed to 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.200 be better at taking care of themselves and women are 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.800 supposed to be better at relationships, and like so much 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.440 of society is built to support that. And if we, 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.680 you know, stop playing by the rules, how big are 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.640 the pieces that we're going to have to pick up? 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.120 We're all on this roller coaster of emotions and it 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.200 doesn't all align at the same time. I had an 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.680 experience with a friend um the morning after we had 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.520 protesting in our neighborhood in West Hollywood, and she really 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:40.640 after I called to check in with her, said simply, 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.800 I can't talk to you right now. And at first 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.800 I was a little taken aback or offended by that reply, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.800 and then I realized, that's fucking awesome that she said 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.920 that to me because she just couldn't do it. And 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.160 I really actually appreciate it. And I've been trying to 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.880 practice and emulate just that myself without feeling like I'm 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.560 doing something wrong in regards to this pandemic. You know, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.720 how do you ask people without feeling is as I 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.560 guess my my question for you, and how do you 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.320 ask people without feeling UM like you're pointing fingers or 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.200 you're going to judge them if they are wearing masks, 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.600 if they're getting tested, if their social distancing, who they've seen. 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:23.600 I think the well two things. One is that this time, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.280 the fact that this that a mask seems both totally mundane, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.920 like it's just a piece of fabric, and also totally 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.040 profound because it's about you know, public health on a 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.560 global scale. UM is confusing for a lot of people, Like, truly, 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.920 how do we talk to the trivial aspect of it 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.680 being a piece of fabric or do we talk to 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.040 the profound aspect of it being about you know, life 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.720 and death. So I just want to honor first that, 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.040 like that's what That's partly why UM talking to people 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.280 about this is confusing. I think our brains like don't 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:54.720 know if it's a big thing or a little thing. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.000 But the other part of it is that if we 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.640 I think I've been working since literally morning, I woke 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:05.600 up in November whatever that was the Wednesday. I've been 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:12.480 working on um allowing myself to be the alarmist person 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.480 in my life, even though my nature is very much 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.080 to be low maintenance and to be laid back and 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.760 to be a not early adopter. I have been trying 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:29.280 two see all of those things as um ways of 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.600 kind of hiding and protecting myself, and that being alarmist 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.800 is much more vulnerable. It's much more vulnerable to say 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.120 I'm going to take this really seriously before other people do. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.480 But I think it's actually a leadership move, and especially 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.720 if we're thinking about in terms of servant leadership, which 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.920 is not like my theme, you know, if you're the 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.400 leader of your family, which is not to say other 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.480 people can't be you know, high mark, but like you know, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.840 but just to say, like in what in what circles 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.960 can we can we make a leadership move. The leadership 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.760 move in this case is to say it is inconvenient 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:02.880 to ask for what I need, but I'm going to 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.399 do it anyway, and I'm going to work on that 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.640 muscle and I'm gonna be really loving in the process. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.280 So this is not about shaming people or judging people. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.800 It's about being of use, of servitude to the people 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.119 that you love, in this case your family. Right, So 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.360 when we're asking before we meet up, I just need 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.680 to know what your protocols have been. We can absolutely 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.679 say that with a without sounding you know, judge, you're shaming. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.080 We can have that question in our head. Oh god, 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.240 am I sounding this way? But let it let it rest, 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.040 Let it rest. Right. This is about tone, and our 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.560 tone can be as loving and forward, you know, forward energy. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.760 I like doing a physical gesture of like the care 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.479 bear stair here, you know, like I love out saying 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.600 saying you know. And we can also either apologize, question 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.240 mark you know, quotes, or just like just like signpost. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.240 But we can say I'm going to ask a tough 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.240 question and I don't want to come across as accusatory. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.359 We can say that, or we don't have to. You 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.720 could practice not saying it, but but maybe start out 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.560 by saying, but we can signpost like I'm about to 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.040 have a tough conversation with you, and ultimately we get 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.000 to sort of not say that out loud and just 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:06.960 think it in our heads. But it's useful to do 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.840 that so we know what kind of frame we're going into. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.600 And actually, another Lisa Nichols thing is about this idea 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.520 of care frontation instead of confrontation, and it's a you know, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:17.880 I think it's a bit of a h not rolls 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.320 off the tongue type of a word. But you can 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.040 anybody look this up. It's it's not just Lisa Nichols. 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:24.600 I think it was on an OPRAH show back and 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.280 like the nineties. So you know, the idea of care 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.960 frontation instead of confrontation is that we are going into 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.280 a difficult conversation with the goal in mind of keeping 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.200 the relationship intact by the end. So what does each 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.280 of us do each look in the theater world, Yeah, 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.160 we all know how to we we use this term 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.639 fight positively. We all know how in real life to 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.359 try to get the other person. I shouldn't say we 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.520 all know. We all know that that the dream is 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.120 that we get through the tough conversation and the relationship 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.120 remains in intact. But the way to do that is 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.760 to be really intentional about it. I'm gonna ask a 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.760 tough question and I'd love your support, And then the 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.080 tough question is let me know how, and you can 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.080 think through like is this so, is this a way 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.320 to ask this question that's gonna that would make me 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.919 feel good? You know, you can think through this ahead 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.879 of time. You can either go super direct, right have 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.639 you guys been wearing masks? What's been your protocol? Or 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.760 you can say, I know it's been really hard. We're 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.960 all feeling such fatigue, and I wouldn't be you know, 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.159 I'm not. I'm not here to judge you if you 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.359 guys have been you know, being loose about it. But 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.240 I just need to know for the safety of my family. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.840 I'm so sorry. But there you go. Or we could 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.200 flip it and we could say, you tell me how 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.840 this sounds. I'm learning how to use my voice during 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.399 this pandemic, and my family and I live in an 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.880 apartment complex and we see a few people a day, 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.520 and this is where we're at, and I want to 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.199 let you know where I'm at. So can you let 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.560 me know where you're at? Completely? I think the I 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.080 think you know in a way, the least um, the 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.000 less drama that we can add to it. The less 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.800 drama the other person is going to hear in our 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.960 voice and and respond with you know, yeah, it's science. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.399 You know like it it isn't. It isn't, but you 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.000 know what I mean, Like the conversation can be about 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.880 like what protocols are you taking? What protocols am I taking? 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.000 Are we a good compatible fit for hanging out? Right now? 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:18.720 You know this is like a weird ass time, y'all. Okay, 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.919 we're gonna take a quick break and come back with 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:34.040 more and maybe even get to listener questions. Okay, we're back, cat, 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.520 what do we got? So we're gonna start from more 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.560 of like a bio section about tomorrow. People have a 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.280 lot of questions about you, and I think you've had 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.359 such incredible guests on and have such a variety of 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.240 elements to who you are and parts of your life. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.280 So let's just start from the top. What exactly do 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.800 you do? Samarrow? Is our first question? And how did 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:57.720 you get into this field? God? I mean, where to 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:03.960 where to begin? Um? I decided when I was ten. 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.280 I'm not actually gonna tell you guys the day by 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.919 day since I was ten, but the story begins. I decided, 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.840 literally I remember the day when I was ten, that 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.320 I was going to be a Shakespearean actress. That's so 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.119 funny because one of my next questions is what did 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.800 you want to be when you grow up? I went 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.760 to an amazing Shakespeare festival when I was ten, and 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.840 then again every summer after that in my hometown of 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.720 Santa Cruz, California. Shout out and they did. They had 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.040 actors who were jobbed in from New York who were 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.600 members of the Union. It was like really high quality, smart, 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:41.040 often modern productions of Shakespeare. I remember a production of 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.520 the Tempest that was very Gilligan's Island and the soundtrack 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.040 was Blondie, so like it wasn't just you know, old 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.840 staid Shakespeare. I was like, I see what they're doing. 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:54.199 By the way, I was fifteen at that time, so 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.320 that that one I wasn't ten, but that one I 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.320 remember just being like, I see what they're doing. I 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:03.080 see how shakespea beer is not just somebody who lived 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.320 four hundred years ago and you know, bully him for 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.159 getting lots of words that sounded pretty and stringing them together, 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:13.719 but rather that Shakespeare is an opportunity for us, in 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.160 every one of our lives and every season of our lives, 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:23.440 to um revisit ancient yet modern um ideas about how 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.320 humans behave and what it is to like exist together. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.720 And I think actually in a way that that has, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.359 like it's so beautiful influenced my life because you know, 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.680 the idea of using Shakespeare, like it's not just Shakespeare 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.880 in and of itself, but it's using Shakespeare to help 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.760 us process our modern world. I'm all about using now 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:42.959 fill in the blank, anything to help us process our 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.439 modern world. Like that's kind of I don't want to, like, 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.680 I don't actually care about the voice except in so 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.600 much as it helps us process our modern world. You know, 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.960 like nothing really for me matters in and of itself. 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.399 Oh my god, that that's horrible. Care about nothing, No, 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:59.520 But I mean context matters, right, I mean it's so 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.919 it's profoundly um valuable to me to think about it 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:05.880 that way. Um. But yeah, So when I was ten, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.320 hadn't cotton to those thoughts yet. But I was like, 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.520 I don't know what it is, but I want to 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.239 do that. And I it took me really till I 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.480 was like thirty to figure out what it is. Part 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:17.480 in between when I was ten and when I was thirty, 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.679 I thought it was act and I thought it was 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.399 two regional Shakespeare be a nomadic actress never get married, 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:28.560 never have money. Just like I really clearly super romanticized 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.760 this um and in a way, I kind of did 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.520 everything right in order to be an unpaid Shakespearean actress, 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.080 by the way, that's what I mean. And that entailed 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.560 going to New York getting a master's degree in acting, 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:40.399 you know, a three year acting program where I was 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:44.080 doing like voice and speech and yoga and um modern 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.000 as well as Shakespeare all day every day. You know, 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:51.320 I really, like check check check, was a very good 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:55.480 student of the world to get this thing done, and 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.960 ended up in New York, got a lot of auditions 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.440 at like literally Shakespeare in the Park in New York City. 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.159 I mean, it was like the thing, and it just 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.679 never happened. And it's not to say that it wouldn't 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:08.399 if I hadn't stayed for another ten years. But I 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:11.040 saw the writing on the wall. I'm a little weird looking. 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.880 That's that's an actor thing to say. But no, like literally, 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.239 especially especially in my twenties, but when it was just 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:21.119 an earlier era, uh no one quite knew to do 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.080 with a ethnically ambiguous person. Everybody was like, that's so 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.600 in right now. But literally then they wanted specificity for 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.280 roles and in big ambiguity is the opposite. And uh 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.119 and I was a little like um, I was a 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.520 little more of like a character actor despite being gorgeous. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.520 So no oneknywe to do with me, Thanks Scott. But 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.080 this idea of quote to what no one knew what 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:41.679 to do with me. I don't mean to say that 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.280 to put myself down. I mean I literally was told 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.840 that over and over and over. And that was what 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.919 my acting experience was like. And this is so cliche 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.360 that I kind of skipped this part when I talked 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:54.560 to people about this. But my twenties in New York, 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.000 when I was living like my dream, both in terms 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.119 of actually doing the thing and also in terms of like, 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:03.000 oh my god, I got so many free tickets to 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:06.360 Broadway shows. I had so many friends. I was never sleeping, 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:08.800 I was drinking so much red wine. I was like, 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.800 I was like, I was like making it. I was 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:14.200 a cocktail waitress. I was I did a billion odd 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:17.239 jobs to get by. But I also in between all 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.639 that was getting so much free stuff and was like 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.920 hacking the system in terms of like finding the fun 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.520 in New York City. But I just could not get 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.960 paid to act, period, and I could not get representation 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:34.399 that was really, you know, worthy of the training and 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.159 all this stuff I had done and I got. I 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.440 had comment after comment after comment. I'll never forget this one. 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:41.240 I did to pay to play, where you you know, 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.280 pay to get to meet somebody who could possibly bring 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:47.440 you on as a as a client, uh for like 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:49.800 an agent or manager, I don't remember what he was. 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:52.760 And he's he looked at my head shot and he said, 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.800 you're wearing glossy lips stick in your head shot and 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:57.080 I was like, yeah, I like it, it's my look. 0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:59.359 He's like, you got an m f A in acting, 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:05.160 you don't need to wear glossy lipstick. Oh no, he's happening. Also, 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:07.199 then I moved to l A, where everybody was like 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:09.199 literally then I got told when I moved to l A, 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:10.960 take the m f A off your resume. No one 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:12.640 cares that you got trained and if anything, I could 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:16.159 work against you, so you know acting god. And now 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:18.600 flash forward even more. Now everyone's wearing masks and wants 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:20.399 to get botox and this part of their face like 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:23.359 speaking of what did you study though? Did you study 0:26:23.400 --> 0:26:26.679 acting underground? Undergrad? I could it's not a thing. I 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:28.800 went to Princeton undergrad and I was an English major. 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:33.679 But uh and and Princeton is super thank you. That 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.680 it's very I mean conservative was the word I was 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:38.080 going to say. I have all kinds of things I 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:40.520 can say about this, the social life there, but no, 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:42.840 what I was gonna say is that it's very conservative 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.280 in terms of like there are very few majors you 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:50.840 can major in. It's really like we do English economics, philosophy, 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:53.919 you know, it's like these really kind of standard You 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:56.320 can't do interdisciplinary work. At least you couldn't back when 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:58.560 I went there. Um and so I was an English major. 0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:02.359 But there's five programs. Creative Writing is one of them. Uh, 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.800 focuses on different aspects of English literature. Uh. And mine 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.080 was program five, the fifth one, which is Dramatic Literature. 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:13.359 Which I say because what really happened is that I 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.680 got to just read plays and get a degree, and 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:18.760 in my downtime I was doing what I was doing 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:20.720 like six shows e here, I mean producing and acting 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.280 and doing all the things. So it was an amazing 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:25.280 it was an amazing place to go for that. It 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:28.720 didn't necessarily like launched me out into the acting world. 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:30.000 You know, I ended up having to get the m 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.080 f A and feeling like I needed to film the caps. 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:35.320 But all of this is to say that happened. And 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:37.560 when I got out of grad school I was twenty six, 0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:39.359 I moved right to New York City. I tried to, 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.080 you know, make this acting thing happen, like I was 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:47.879 really really good at hustling. But uh, right away I 0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:51.080 had some mentors in the dialect coaching world who I 0:27:51.160 --> 0:27:53.440 had met in the gap year between college and grad 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:55.640 school when I was in New York as well, who 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:59.520 just started to throw me clients. I mean I was 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:04.240 not at a dialect coach in my mind, I was like, thanks, 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.479 I'm an actor. But I knew that, like obviously dialect 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.120 coaching on the side was going to be a better 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:12.920 way to make money than you know, just waiting tables. 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.520 So I said yes. And it really took me years 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:19.159 and moving to l A and you know, circumstances changing 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:23.120 before I realized that that is actually much more where 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:25.520 my strength lies. And then there was also this transition 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.200 into coaching not just actors but kind of everyone, which 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:32.600 has happened really just since I mean the election and 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:36.560 that's where we turned the page. It's funny because I 0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:40.320 actually started my young career as an intern at Shakespeare 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.880 in Company in Lenox, Massachusetts and did not go the 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:45.200 same path as you. And I'm like, wow, it's like 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:48.320 sliding doors. But I will say I will say that 0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:55.160 I think my superpower is because of the probably the 0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:58.880 English major neists, but also this, you know, really lifelong 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:03.040 Shakespeare understanding. I was going to say appreciation. I've gone 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:05.800 through phases where I'm like enough sucking Shakespeare, but my 0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:10.240 Shakespeare understanding. Um. And also the years that I've worked 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:12.680 with actors on various scripts. I mean, in between working 0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:15.000 on big projects, I was doing like one on one 0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.000 coaching for auditions, and it would just be like during 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:19.600 pilot season, you know, it would be like twenty in 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:25.720 a week. Um. My secret skill is in understanding what's 0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:28.480 happening with real humans under the surface of the lines 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:32.320 on the page, and that actually translates to real humans 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:34.040 as well as as well as the as well as 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:37.200 the characters that were written by writers. But really being 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:39.960 able to understand, like if the line of text is wow, 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:44.120 that's so exciting, being able to go okay, so that 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:47.080 person is trying to placate this other person, but they're 0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:49.240 not really in it. And you can tell because of 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.200 the line before, or you can tell because of the 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.880 tone that's written in and helping first of all foreigners 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:58.040 with that kind of really subtle understanding of the the 0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:02.480 you know, nuance of of own UM, but even helping Americans. 0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:05.240 I mean, when we're looking at words on a page, 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.480 we can get really myopic and and kind of just 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.560 see the words. And I'm here on the side side coaching, 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:14.800 being like, but here's how human behavior works. So what 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:17.920 I find so interesting about you is that you have 0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:21.120 such a thoughtful connection between the heart and the brain 0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:22.960 and the mind. And maybe that's because you grew up 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:26.560 in a home with UM people that are incredibly brilliant. UM. 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.240 I love your parents awesome, and I know you've done 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.640 some really awesome things with them. But did the order 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:34.600 that you learned or fell in love with the voice? 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:38.760 Is it more mechanical or more and like mental, more 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.160 deeply rooted in your heart. That's such a such a 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:48.840 lovely question, I am. I loved learning about the International 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.720 Phonetic Alphabet, which is the more technical stuff that I 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:55.360 know about. UM. It's fascinating. Tell tell us about this, 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.320 so you know, we can talk about technically a few 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:01.200 different ways. One of the things that's that's technical about 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:05.240 the voice is literally the anatomy. I actually never learned 0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:07.520 about that. That's why I was awesome to have Dr 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:10.160 Gupta on And actually, as I'm writing parts of my 0:31:10.240 --> 0:31:14.880 book that require a really nuanced understanding of like how 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:17.840 the how breath works in the body, I'm having to 0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:20.200 go to resources. For sure, I do not have that 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:23.239 living inside of me. But the other way we can 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:26.360 talk about technical is the stuff that's kind of from 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.040 like the neck up. This is sort of the joke 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:31.520 of like what articulation is versus voice work is really 0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:34.120 just like what's happening in the mouth. And even that 0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:36.160 I don't I don't actually linger that much. In the 0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:39.400 anatomical people talk about oral posture, which is this fancy 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:42.280 term for like where your voice is placed in your mouth. 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.920 It's not I don't think that way. But the International 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:49.360 Phonetic Alphabet is sort of like learning music. It is 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.840 annoying to learn music theory, but then you can play music. 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:55.400 It is annoying to learn all the symbols of the 0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:59.520 International Phonetic alphabet. But then you can decode anybody's accent 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:03.560 in the entire your world. So cool. I don't want 0:32:03.560 --> 0:32:07.240 to name names, but I have a friend who is 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.760 an English teacher and English is not her first language, 0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:14.000 and she wasn't making the hard G sound happen in 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.520 the word English. So every time she was introducing a 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:20.560 new program, she was saying English English, there's an n 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.480 G sound M. It's a single symbol in international for that, 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.120 a alphabet, the n G M. And then she was 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:31.360 going from the UMM into the L English English, and 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:33.760 I could hear it and instantly be like, oh, there's 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:37.240 a hard G that happens after the um in googog 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:41.280 English when we actually pronounced that word, when when Native 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.440 American speakers pronounced that word, and she was leaving it 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:46.280 out and trying to make this really amazing like energy 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:48.040 into L happened, which I don't know, I don't think 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:50.760 maybe happens in English. A few people actually wrote in 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:52.920 about how did you figure out what you wanted to 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:54.960 do as a career. I'm feeling lost, and I think 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:57.760 what you said. You know, you being a results driven person, 0:32:57.800 --> 0:32:59.479 and a lot of people are when we're trying to 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:01.560 discover and figure out that, and you can't have that 0:33:01.600 --> 0:33:03.960 in front of you, to just feel that passion and 0:33:04.000 --> 0:33:06.000 to tap into what you love. I mean it sounds 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:08.520 so cliche and like we're really lucky to be able 0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:11.720 to even you know, have the opportunity to live that way. 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:14.120 But I think if we can connect the brain and 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.080 the heart like you do and really just move forward 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:20.400 and find find curiosity and what we're exploring in life, 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:22.920 I don't know, I think that's like such I think 0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:25.640 it's confusing too, because there's such a um there's such 0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.440 a culture of follow your passion, find your dream, don't 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:31.120 let anybody tell you know, and that keeps that makes us, 0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:32.880 That makes it very hard for us to as room. 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:36.560 He says, be quiet and maybe here well that too, 0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:39.800 but to be quiet in here because sometimes you know, 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:41.520 when you're ten and you decide what you want to 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:43.600 do in twenty years later, you're still fighting for it. 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:46.640 There is definitely a way you can talk to yourself 0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:48.760 and say that's right, you're brave, you're courageous, you're not 0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:50.959 let us listening to know. And there's another part of 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:54.520 you that can say, um, maybe when I was ten, 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.120 I didn't actually know what I wanted to do with 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.120 my life, and I am allowed to change and pick it. 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:04.160 And I will tell one story. When I was thirty one, 0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:06.720 I had just gotten to l A and I got 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:09.960 this really fancy agent for TV and film dialect work, 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:13.360 who I still have. She's amazing, going a little crazy 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:17.759 and the pandemic because everything is shut down. God bluss um. 0:34:17.800 --> 0:34:21.480 I did my first onset coaching. It was a little 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.880 movie that not a lot of people saw, perfect for me. 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.000 But I was being paid more than like everybody else 0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:28.879 on set because it was sag ultra low budget, which 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:31.080 if anybody listening and knows, means like everyone on set 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:32.560 is getting paid a hundred bucks a day. I mean 0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.120 it's like no, you know, uh. But I got a 0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:36.960 little more than that and was like, oh my god, 0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:39.520 I'm living the dream. And I was just to set 0:34:39.520 --> 0:34:42.480 the scene. At the time, when I was thirty ish, 0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:47.000 newly in l A. I was a personal assisting for 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:52.200 a celebrity who is a difficult human be trying to 0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:54.840 make acting happen now on this coast with also no 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:59.400 representation and trying to get taken seriously, which was you know, 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:03.760 painful of the soul and then three suddenly dialect coaching 0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:07.760 on my first movie, getting paid more than anyone else. 0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:14.400 Uh Billy Crystal was on set and the director at 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:17.239 the beginning of the process was clearly like, who is 0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:20.640 this smiley, weird girl hanging out with my lead actor? Why? 0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.279 Like who led her on our set? And by the end, 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.440 I remember we were doing post production where it was 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:29.759 the actor and in front of a microphone and the 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.640 director and me and like the script supervisor alone in 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:34.400 a room trying to get some post production means we 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.920 were fixing sound stuff after we had actually finished shooting 0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:41.160 the movie, and the actor did what he needed to 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:45.040 do into the microphone and the director goes, good for me, Samara, 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:49.040 is that good for you? And I cannot tell you 0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:52.200 that was in a way when it all clicked, And 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:55.520 I was like, trying to find people in this town 0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:58.600 to take me seriously as an actor is not worth it. 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:01.640 When I can have this feeling of being a thirty 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:07.880 year old girl with this toll you know, director man 0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:12.440 with this like huge persona deferring to me, And I 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:14.120 was like, that's when I realized that ten year old 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:15.759 me didn't know what but she was doing. I mean, god, 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:17.840 bless right. I had to go through it and it 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:20.160 made me better. And the way that I tell that 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:22.720 story about but when I was ten is on purpose 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.680 because I said that I wanted to do that, and 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:26.920 I didn't know what that was. And it turns out 0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.640 that what that was quote unquote, that wasn't acting. It 0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:32.719 was some other thing that has to do with when 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:35.719 you're in an audience and everybody's breathing together, and a 0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:38.200 story is being told and people are being moved, and 0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:41.880 there are so many different puzzle pieces to put together 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:44.480 that image. You don't have to act to do that. 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:49.040 As it turns out, I can help an actor tell 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.360 the story in a way that feels more embodied and 0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:54.160 more real, and help a director feel like I'm helping 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:56.200 that actor tell the story using language they don't know. 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:58.480 How often directors don't know how to talk to actors 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:00.440 the way I do, which is not to say that 0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:02.920 I'm encroaching on director's territory, but it's to say that 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:05.759 we're all working together as a team to tell the 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.440 story that's ultimately going to make that audience all breathed 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:10.760 together as one. Well. That was one of our Another 0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:13.439 listener's questions was what do you find most interesting about 0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:15.760 the human voice? If we're not just thinking about technically, 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:18.760 but we're thinking about huge, big picture looking down from above, 0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:23.560 how each of us sounds are idiolect As we discussed 0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:27.040 with doctor Charity Hudley, how each of us sounds is 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:30.120 different from how every other person on Earth sounds. And 0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.640 that is not just for the obvious reasons, like we 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:34.440 all grew up in a different place, and we have 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.080 the different parents that we have, and we have the 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:39.239 different cultures we have. It's all of that, but it's 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:43.120 also the microadjustments that each of us makes in order 0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:45.719 to navigate the different spaces we've been in. Who do 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:47.320 we want to sound like? Who do we want to 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:49.960 fit in? With this human desire we all have to 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:54.680 belong comes out in our voices. We do not unless 0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:58.080 we have like a real uh neuro atypical quality where 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.319 we're not able to sort of pick up on cues 0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:02.440 in the room, which is which is very real. If 0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:05.399 we're not in that in that category, we all are 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.879 picking up on like oh, when I said this thing 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.680 this way, somebody gave me a weird look. I don't 0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:14.120 like that look. I'm going to change it. So I 0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:16.960 never say it like that again, or you know, there's 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.000 a billion of these little things that we're all doing. 0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:22.359 The reason that a bunch of women say like, it's 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.000 not just like it's it's it's it's inherent to our 0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:28.440 anatomy and it just comes up, you know, through nature. 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:30.960 It's obviously the nurture side of it. It's obviously if 0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:33.439 our friends say it, we reflect back our friends because 0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:35.960 we're empathetic humans who are always trying to do this 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:38.719 dance with other humans, to be understood, to communicate, to 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:41.719 be seen, to be loved. That is what I love 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.879 about the voice. That's what I love about you. All Right, guys, 0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:46.319 we're going to take a break for one second and 0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:57.640 we'll be right back. So we are back. We are 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:00.399 back with Samarrow Bay as my guest. Unpermision to speak. 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:06.439 I'm kidding, she's the host. Okay, So we have that's 0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:11.359 what a producer is. Hungary. Okay, So what was your 0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:13.719 most recent struggle where you felt like you lost your 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:15.880 voice tomorrow? What did you do or what are you 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:17.799 doing currently to find your voice again? And how did 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:20.800 you get out of the situation. It's such a beautiful question. 0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:25.520 I don't know if the person who's asking is talking 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:27.920 about the literal voice or the metaphorical, because that's sort 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:30.279 of like what we've set up here. The person that 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:32.600 is asking, I will say, is the general manager of 0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:35.320 a very big restaurant here in Los Angeles. A gentleman 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:37.520 doesn't really help with that with the idea of like 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:39.200 what what what sort of thing he wants from me? 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:41.799 I would say, because it's during the pandemic where it's 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:44.880 like he just has no control over what is happening 0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:47.040 on a day to day basis and people are sort 0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:50.800 of disrespecting his authority, I would say, Or the ranger 0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:52.279 as it should go in a in a in a 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:55.759 setting of UM, a restaurant coming from both sides, from 0:39:55.760 --> 0:39:59.120 the top owner who is also a sort of a brand, 0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:05.200 down to the the staff. It's a lot. It's a lot. 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.960 I mean, how to UM seem like your authority, you 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:12.000 know when you do, but people aren't treating you that way. UM. 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:16.920 It reminds me of the status games in UM theater school, 0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:22.680 the whole sort of UM joke or trick with status 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:25.520 if we're playing high status and low status, just even 0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:28.400 in a game context where we're just like switch on 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:31.240 a you know this like really artificial thing where somebody 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:34.360 snaps and you switch to being low status whatever that is, 0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.680 and feels like the trick is that we can't actually 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:41.600 really play high status. It has to be given to us. Right, 0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:45.440 So some of this is like in our personal lives, 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:50.000 we want to find people who appreciate us, but in 0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:53.000 our professional lives we can't always ask that of people. Right, 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.080 We're stuck with who we are working with. All we 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:59.600 can do is honestly do sort of sort of confrontations. 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:02.640 These affrontations like if it's if it's if it feels 0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:05.359 like it's everybody is feeling that way to him, then 0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:07.799 you know, maybe there's something in the way that he's 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.719 um communicating that he could really look at. But if 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.520 it is about individuals who are undermining him, there is 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.360 a chance that that I think he has to take 0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:20.160 to have a private conversation and say, in order for 0:41:20.239 --> 0:41:22.920 me to do my job, here's what I think, here's 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:25.879 how I need support from you. Um. That was not 0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:27.840 the answer to his question, though I know he's asking 0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.319 about me. I just really wanted to hopefully coach him 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.600 a little bit. But um, but for me, I would 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:36.879 say I'm going to be really honest here and say 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:39.799 that the way I am having trouble with my own 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:44.320 voice these days is trying to write a book during 0:41:44.640 --> 0:41:48.440 a global pandemic. I think I had, you know, I 0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:52.040 haven't talked about it much on on this podcast, but um, 0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:54.640 at the end of March, I had this insane life 0:41:54.680 --> 0:42:00.760 changing experience, um of despite the pandemic already being underway 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:02.360 in New York, being in a horrible state, so I 0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:04.719 couldn't fly there anymore to have these publisher meetings I 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:08.160 was supposed to have. I nonetheless got interest from fourteen 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:11.120 different publishers and did zoom meetings back to back over 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.880 a three day period, and thirteen out of fourteen of 0:42:13.920 --> 0:42:16.560 them bid. And it was this amazing bidding war over 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:18.880 my book proposal, which is on a lot of the 0:42:18.920 --> 0:42:22.759 same themes as this podcast, but very much like here 0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:25.160 are the patterns I've seen here here, the different sort 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.279 of categories and each chapter is a different category of 0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:29.799 way that we can sort of get in our own 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:32.920 way and that we can shift out of that and um, 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:36.440 and I got so much love for for it, and 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:40.040 I had so many sales during the craziest time, and 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.920 I mean it's great, like I am so lucky a 0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:48.000 clap for that, thank you, and in a dream scenario, 0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:51.200 while I was writing this proposal all last year, UM, 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:54.000 my plan was to write the book while doing workshops, 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:59.080 while interacting, while being in communion with you know you 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:02.560 guys who are listening in face to face, voice to voice, 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:05.319 like really trying stuff out, really feeling like I'm in 0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:07.719 the weeds and the trenches and whatever the metaphor is, 0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:10.919 so that I'm this isn't just like abstract theoretical work, 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.040 and I don't have enough time to get in my 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:18.000 head about you know, who's out there, Hello, Hello, Hello, 0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:20.719 and instead, you know, obviously we were at where we're at. 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:24.440 And so the answer to his question about how it's 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:26.279 been the hardest for me to use my voice is 0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:30.760 somebody tweeted something um that I posted on my personal 0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:34.200 Instagram account this last week that basically says like, if 0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:36.000 it's been feeling really hard for you, and if your 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:40.000 regular coping mechanisms haven't been working, You're not alone. And 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:41.799 I just want to I just want to shout out that, 0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.080 like I don't know how much of the drama I'm 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.880 having is just like bookwriting is hard. Hello, everybody has 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:50.440 said that through all of human history, or if it's 0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:52.399 a book, writing is hard during a pandemic, when we're 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:55.920 feeling really disconnected, and also when I am trying to 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.200 write for a future that I want to live in 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:01.600 while not always waking up every day believing that that 0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:04.200 future is possible. It is so part of my own 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:09.239 ethos and my own um, you know, brand to be 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:12.520 really optimistic, to be like, y'all, we are heading towards something, 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:16.480 let's do it together, right, And I don't always have 0:44:16.640 --> 0:44:20.680 the resources in myself to like sit down at my 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:24.080 desk optimism forward. And that is like I'm trying to 0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.040 be vulnerable and honest and like not fake it. And 0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:29.640 also I think part of being a servant leader is 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:32.839 about providing hope. I mean, at least talked about that 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:36.160 like it's an obligation. I have to be hopeful, it's 0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:40.560 an obligation. And also I'm not always hopeful. So that's 0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:44.400 what's hard. I appreciate your authenticity and your vulnerability with 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:46.120 that because a lot of people are struggling with that 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:48.359 right now. It's a really hard time. And then on 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:51.399 top of it, you throw in kids, you throw in. 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:56.920 I mean, just so many relationships, shifts, so much claustrophobia, 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:00.480 so much angst, and so much hatred, and we got 0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:02.640 to say, you know what, Okay, we gotta be honest 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:04.040 with each other and so we can get back to 0:45:04.080 --> 0:45:06.839 that place of optimism so that we can be healthy, 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:09.880 so that we can still feel and shine. And it 0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:12.520 really does start with each of us. But to know that, 0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:15.640 like this time is just fucking hard, and it's okay 0:45:15.680 --> 0:45:19.360 to just feel that sometimes. I really appreciate that, smorrow 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:21.719 because I know that that this isn't easy. Yeah. Well, 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:24.000 and I also want to say, Cat, before you go on, 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:27.280 that you and I have been having conversations about mental 0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.560 health insomuch as it relates to this podcast and actually 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:32.680 connects with that lovely quote that you surpressed me with 0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.439 up top about how we talk to ourselves. Right. I mean, 0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:39.240 I am not somebody who has a history of mental 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:42.160 health issues. I really lucked out, you know, I really 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:45.319 lucked out, but I did not luck up. But no, 0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:47.239 I mean I hear you. You know it's I have 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:50.520 discovered how rare it is. Um. I have felt very 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.920 even keeled most of my life, but like this pandemic 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:57.560 is bringing stuff up for everybody, because of course we're 0:45:57.600 --> 0:46:01.760 living in this low grade ongoing christ this that really 0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.160 is a crisis, and our body is feeling of the crisis, 0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.040 even if we can convince our brain that you know, 0:46:06.120 --> 0:46:08.560 it's not. And then you know, for those of us 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.920 who have kids, there is also this added level of like, 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:16.480 we have to be somewhat fully processed ourselves so that 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:20.520 we can create a loving enough, safe enough space for them. 0:46:20.560 --> 0:46:24.239 And I actually wonder if that's been helpful. Like I 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.080 took a few days away to to do a writer's 0:46:27.080 --> 0:46:29.560 retreat a few weeks ago, and it was actually I 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:31.520 actually went to a much darker place, Like I wonder 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:33.960 if it's actually been like keeping me in a better 0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:36.360 spot to have to be that for my child. But 0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:39.040 it is also an additional level of mental labor and 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:42.360 exhausting to not just be able to like be truly 0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:44.920 furious when I read something that makes me furious, but 0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.600 rather have to like instantly and not instant. I mean, 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:49.840 I don't obviously we we can be however honest we 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:51.360 want to be with our kids. I'm not I'm not 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:54.080 putting this on anybody else, but for me, I know 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:57.520 that with my five year old who's sensitive enough that 0:46:57.600 --> 0:47:01.360 he picks up on stuff. Um, I have to just 0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:04.719 take personal responsibility. Do I want to sit in my 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.160 fury or sit in my sadness to the extent that 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:08.520 he's then going to pick up on it and I'm 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:11.080 then going to have to deal with him, which is 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:12.840 which is what I have to say we've been dealing 0:47:12.840 --> 0:47:16.520 with in our household. Like I suffer from depression and anxiety. 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:20.239 And I'm a big, big advocate of speaking honestly about 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:24.240 mental health. Um, it's something that people have feel shame around. 0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:26.279 And there's no reason to feel that if we were 0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:28.000 sick with cancer we would talk about it. So I 0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.600 wouldn't we do the same. And some of that emotion 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:33.439 that I carry, I have found, you know, I wear 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:36.080 my emotions on my sleeve. And it's really practicing that 0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:38.520 balance though sometimes just being quiet and sitting with that 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.800 uncomfortable feeling but not knowing at this time where you 0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:43.680 can go run to a friend and like talk to 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:45.800 them and easily do that is really tough because you 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:48.279 become you're in your head a lot, and I just 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:50.920 just change up our scenario just like go dancing, go 0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:53.480 doing like so much of the stuff. You know, the 0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:57.000 coping mechanisms aren't just yoga and drinking tea and meditation, 0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.760 you know. The coping mechanism for me is like seeing 0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:03.080 for you know, doing stuff, leading, leaning into our support 0:48:03.120 --> 0:48:05.319 system and people that lift us up. So this is 0:48:05.320 --> 0:48:08.000 a reminder to everyone if you listen to this entire 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:12.000 episode to go find someone over zoom or distantly that 0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:13.880 we'll we'll pick you up and hold you in the 0:48:13.920 --> 0:48:16.200 space that you deserve. I mean, I will say that 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:18.760 one of one of my favorite things I've done lately 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.279 is UM in order to get me out of my 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:24.920 funk with uh trying to book right to like a 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:27.800 blank you know, blank screen with no human on the 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:30.320 other side. Is that kind of backtracked and did a 0:48:30.360 --> 0:48:33.520 little bit of like who's my ideal reader? And I 0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:37.080 thought of four friends who are totally like who I 0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:39.680 have in three out of four of the cases. I've 0:48:39.680 --> 0:48:42.279 actually coached them as well, so they know of me 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.440 as sort of you know, in in coach friend land 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:47.600 already the sort of nebulous zone UM and asked them 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:49.719 if I could sort of interview them for half an 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:52.040 hour and recorded and asked them, like really kind of 0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:54.600 on the spot questions like what's your relationship to your voice? 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.880 And I mean I got so much out of that, 0:48:58.200 --> 0:48:59.960 you know, the equivalent of like those of you list 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:01.880 sitting like getting to actually just sort of ask you 0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:08.000 guys questions back um is connections about connecting for sure, 0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:11.000 but also just like I tried to not talk because 0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:12.920 I really wanted to just like have the recording be 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:16.319 you know, them talking in their own way, giving me 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:19.360 new ways to think about this stuff. But inevitably I 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:21.239 was jumping in. I mean actually did a pretty good 0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:23.200 job of not doing it, but like inevitably I was 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:25.839 jumping in because we would we would like go off 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.560 on tangents where we were planning something new that made 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.680 us both excited based on what they said. And that 0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:33.960 is like what I missed from not having like our 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.480 coworking space to go to like just the sort of 0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:44.319 the surprise element of conversationsh pandemic times. Y'all. Okay, we 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:48.400 are going to drop another episode with way more listener 0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:52.279 questions next week, so listen for that. And thank you 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:56.800 to Cat for joining me, for bantering with me and 0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:01.239 cheerleading the heck out of this podcast, and of course 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:04.000 for doing the actual work of gathering the questions and 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:09.200 for you for sending them in. Thank you to Sophie 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:11.600 Lichterman and the team at I Heeart Radio and all 0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:14.919 of you. We're recording this podcast at various locations around 0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:18.240 Los Angeles on land that is the historic gathering place 0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:20.920 for the Tongva indigenous tribe, and you can visit U. 0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:23.200 S d A C dot us to learn more about 0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:26.759 honoring Native land. Permission to Speak is a production of 0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:30.320 I Heart Radio and Double Vision, Executive produced by Katherine 0:50:30.320 --> 0:50:33.440 Burke Canton and Mark Canton. For more podcasts from my 0:50:33.480 --> 0:50:36.839 Heart Radio, listen on the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:38.720 or wherever you get your favorite shows.