Speaker 1: Today's quote, it's from the Bible. I interviewed a woman
Speaker 1: running for office in the election for state Senate about
Speaker 1: how she decided to run, how she decided specifically to
Speaker 1: sort of go public, to go from being somebody who's
Speaker 1: you know, living a private life and not, you know,
Speaker 1: putting herself out there to be seen and heard and
Speaker 1: judged into somebody who is. And she quoted the Bible
Speaker 1: and she said, there's the story about Esther who had
Speaker 1: a fancy position inside the court, and the Jews were
Speaker 1: in trouble because it's the Bible. Uh. And so Mordecai
Speaker 1: from the Jews asked her to, you know, use her
Speaker 1: position to speak to the king, and she said, I
Speaker 1: don't have permission. And he wrote back and said, do
Speaker 1: not think that because you were in the king's house,
Speaker 1: you alone of all the Jews, will escape. For if
Speaker 1: you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for
Speaker 1: the Jews will arise from another place. But you and
Speaker 1: your father's family will perish. And who knows but that
Speaker 1: you have come to your royal position for such a
Speaker 1: time as this. Welcome to permission to speak. The podcast
Speaker 1: about how we talk and how we get ourselves heard
Speaker 1: with me Samarbe. Today's guest is me just kidding but
Speaker 1: sort of. My podcast producer Cat and I are doing
Speaker 1: a mailbag episode, and um, we've broken into two halves.
Speaker 1: For the first half, it's a lot of questions about me,
Speaker 1: but really filling in some of the gaps for you
Speaker 1: guys of my career path. And also I think some
Speaker 1: really foundational stuff I believe about the voice and putting
Speaker 1: the voice into context. We got so many good questions
Speaker 1: we decided to obviously do a massive two part episode
Speaker 1: here and part two will drop next week. And if
Speaker 1: you don't hear your question in this one, you might
Speaker 1: hear it in the next one. Truly, I love you, guys,
Speaker 1: I love getting questions, and I really hope more than
Speaker 1: anything that this episode you're about to hear in the
Speaker 1: next one are helpful, either in specific tips that you
Speaker 1: can apply to what's going on with you, or in
Speaker 1: the very fact that this conversation is happening. That there
Speaker 1: is so much to say and to discover about our
Speaker 1: voices and our sense of power and how those two
Speaker 1: things dance together. And I'm really left feeling like the
Speaker 1: answer always besides giving ourselves permission, and in relation to
Speaker 1: giving ourselves permission is that we need each other, and
Speaker 1: we need each other to to listen better to each
Speaker 1: other and to resonate and to raise your hand and
Speaker 1: say that resonates with me. You're not alone, and to
Speaker 1: keep each other a high five for speaking up even
Speaker 1: when you know our voices are shaky, and even when
Speaker 1: we're going to rock the boat because boat rocking is
Speaker 1: really scary, but um, maybe the boat's gonna cap size
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll be okay. This is mail Bag Part one.
Speaker 1: Good morning, Samara, Hello Catherine. I would actually, if you
Speaker 1: don't mind, just like to hog the mic for a
Speaker 1: second and open up with one of my favorite quotes
Speaker 1: and maybe you could guess who says it. How our
Speaker 1: voice sounds has everything to do with how our inner
Speaker 1: voice sounds. To change the world, we must first change
Speaker 1: how we talk to ourselves. That is the Samara bay
Speaker 1: is m if ever. I've heard it and is a
Speaker 1: simiar vism, and it's so relevant now. It's relevant always,
Speaker 1: but now more than ever. I'm really thinking about this
Speaker 1: because the more you know, until I launched this podcast,
Speaker 1: I was really working one on one like that was
Speaker 1: my jam and there is a future in which I'm working,
Speaker 1: you know, one on many, And obviously, if there wasn't
Speaker 1: a pandemic um, i'd already be kind of underway with that.
Speaker 1: I had a bunch of workshops like scheduled for the
Speaker 1: spring tier. You know, this might not be obvious, but
Speaker 1: part of the deal with working one on one versus
Speaker 1: working on one on many is that the job suddenly
Speaker 1: becomes not dealing with the person who's in front of
Speaker 1: me with all of their uniqueness, but rather what are
Speaker 1: the big pattern themes that are applicable for all of us?
Speaker 1: And that's actually been a huge shift because, as you know,
Speaker 1: as a one on one coach, I didn't actually have
Speaker 1: to think. I would notice like, oh, I get you're
Speaker 1: going to fit into this category. I see you in
Speaker 1: unique individual human but also like you're going to fit
Speaker 1: into this category. But now I have to be really
Speaker 1: intentional about, like what are the categories so that I
Speaker 1: can lead the conversation and sort of allow people to
Speaker 1: see themselves in those categories. It's like a whole different
Speaker 1: mindset um. But yes, one of the things that comes
Speaker 1: up all the time, and that I realized I didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily think about when I was coaching one on one.
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about a lot now. Is that you know,
Speaker 1: permission to speak. It is partly about the speaking, but
Speaker 1: it's so much about the permission and that has to
Speaker 1: do with how we talk to ourselves. It really does.
Speaker 1: And I want to just backtrack a little bit and
Speaker 1: say congratulations to you for many things. This podcast has
Speaker 1: gone through many a season since we first pitched pitched
Speaker 1: this to ihearted. Um. I mean the last time we
Speaker 1: recorded our first mail Bag episode, I was sitting in
Speaker 1: my car, you were sitting in your your house, and
Speaker 1: we were like, we're in the middle of this thing
Speaker 1: right now. We can't see each other, but like it'll
Speaker 1: be a couple of weeks and then we'll just, you know,
Speaker 1: get back to it. Well cut cut a couple of
Speaker 1: months now, and we're still in the same situation. I'd
Speaker 1: like to open up with this from a listener. She says,
Speaker 1: all of my life, I've had people tell me that
Speaker 1: I'm too loud, that I speak too fast or too harshly,
Speaker 1: and I feel seen by everything you discussed in your interviews.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I have to pause the podcast and sit down
Speaker 1: to think for a minute, because you really lay out
Speaker 1: and point to a lot of the issues that I've had,
Speaker 1: the things that I've been feeling but I can't really
Speaker 1: identify with. And so it's nice to finally have someone
Speaker 1: understand and to have a community that understands. I love that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, what can I say? I mean, you really
Speaker 1: get it. You get it. I really do feel like
Speaker 1: you are. You're kind of crushing the game over there.
Speaker 1: We have a variety of guests that have come on,
Speaker 1: and you're really connecting with people in a time where
Speaker 1: it's really hard to stand up and use your voice
Speaker 1: or or maybe not for some, but it's a very
Speaker 1: very uh bonkers time. Is that the appropriate term to you?
Speaker 1: I think that's the scientific term. Yeah, And I'm just
Speaker 1: this podcast. I mean, you were in Good Housekeeping number
Speaker 1: eleven for like the top twenty podcast. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a huge, huge moment for people to stand up
Speaker 1: and use their voices to get what they want, to
Speaker 1: feel heard and to feel seen. And I found I mean,
Speaker 1: part of what that letter that you just read makes
Speaker 1: me think of is that, like, yes, this is about
Speaker 1: using our voices, but it's also just about feeling like
Speaker 1: people get us. With all of the drama that does
Speaker 1: come up with our voices, Like, we aren't going to
Speaker 1: solve all of it in you know, in this episode.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, even in the doing this podcast,
Speaker 1: you know, listening to a podcast episode does not necessarily
Speaker 1: solve every one of your guys, you know, drama with
Speaker 1: like what's going on with you and what mean people
Speaker 1: or you know, whatever thoughtless people say to you. But
Speaker 1: to know that there's a community of people who get it,
Speaker 1: I think is actually part of the solution because we can't,
Speaker 1: you know, affect other people's reactions, but we can't affect
Speaker 1: how we process it. We haven't seen each other in
Speaker 1: person since your birthday drive by a few months ago
Speaker 1: in May and a lovely day it was. But how
Speaker 1: you doing? How you doing over there? I'm okay, loaded question,
Speaker 1: I'm okay, Yeah, I'm okay. I mean it's been a lot. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like everybody is either overworked or
Speaker 1: underworked right now. Um. We're recording this the day after
Speaker 1: I did um a ask an expert video for Create
Speaker 1: and Cultivate, and it was such an honor to be
Speaker 1: on their platform because it's such a huge platform and
Speaker 1: it's so many you know, like minded women. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like to say that part of my dream client
Speaker 1: is women on a mission and create and cultivate is
Speaker 1: all about women trying to build the careers of their dreams,
Speaker 1: which inevitably for many of us, involves something that also
Speaker 1: feels like it's good for the planet. It's good for
Speaker 1: you know, the soul. It's purpose driven, as people say,
Speaker 1: quote unquote purpose driven. But I will say that doing
Speaker 1: that version of I g Live, where I had thirty
Speaker 1: minutes and I really had like a tight thirty of
Speaker 1: content and I was using their slides um, which is
Speaker 1: a really gorgeous like technological you know, bonus um. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I actually killed it in as much
Speaker 1: of a way as I wanted to, because I'm such
Speaker 1: an interactive person. I mean, I'm such an extrovert. I
Speaker 1: get my energy from other people, and it didn't set
Speaker 1: me up to do that. And you know this is
Speaker 1: I sort of bring this up because I've been sitting
Speaker 1: with it um, not to actually be hard on myself,
Speaker 1: but to like properly post mortem, because obviously any chance
Speaker 1: any of us have to speak publicly is a chance
Speaker 1: to think about, like, how are we making an impact?
Speaker 1: Like what is it to speak publicly? And partly I
Speaker 1: feel like check, check check. I did what I wanted
Speaker 1: to do. And partly I'm like, oh, there were new
Speaker 1: challenges I was not ready for, and you know, one
Speaker 1: of them is that there was I was getting comments
Speaker 1: the entire time, but because I had such a tight
Speaker 1: you know, amount of time and and and a lot
Speaker 1: of content I wanted to get through, I wasn't giving
Speaker 1: myself permission to stop and read the comments, and thus
Speaker 1: I was feeling disconnected from my audience. And I'm not
Speaker 1: at my best that way. So I feel like that
Speaker 1: is something that I that I woke up with this morning.
Speaker 1: But also that like every chance I get, whether it's
Speaker 1: on the podcast or I'm doing you know, much looser
Speaker 1: and more fun for me, I g lives on my
Speaker 1: own social feed with you guys, uh, is like another chance,
Speaker 1: another chance to just keep working on what it is
Speaker 1: to be authentically ourselves in front of a microphone or
Speaker 1: in front of other humans. I mean, I kind of
Speaker 1: like to joke that I'm patient zero. I'm so with
Speaker 1: everybody else here. Yes, I have expertise in a lot
Speaker 1: of aspects of this work, but also I have not
Speaker 1: actually been a person who has been seen and heard
Speaker 1: by lots of people until literally February when we launched
Speaker 1: this podcast. I recently was listening to Lisa Nichols, who's
Speaker 1: an amazing inspirational, transformational speaker, and she uses this term
Speaker 1: servant leadership, this idea that as leaders are job is
Speaker 1: to be of service, right. I very much want to
Speaker 1: be in that tradition, and I also want to be
Speaker 1: really honest about the fact that, like the time is,
Speaker 1: as my podcast producer says, bonkers and um And one
Speaker 1: of my favorite things about um Viv Groscop not when
Speaker 1: she was on my podcast, but the thing that I
Speaker 1: told you guys to go listen to her her Zoom
Speaker 1: her how to Own the Zoom YouTube thing is that
Speaker 1: she said that there are no experts in how to
Speaker 1: function during a pandemic, and anybody who says that they are,
Speaker 1: you know, are full of it. And I really want
Speaker 1: to just honor that you had mentioned a Roomy quote
Speaker 1: that I just I love. Oh my god, Yes, I
Speaker 1: posted this on on Instagram. It says, the quieter you become,
Speaker 1: the more you're able to hear. By Roomy and Um
Speaker 1: I wrote after permission to not speak is often just
Speaker 1: as hard to give ourselves. Maybe it's people pleasing or
Speaker 1: perfectionism or the hustle, but we feel like we need
Speaker 1: to have the answers and now. And I said, I
Speaker 1: commit to no more answers today. Uh, it's really hard.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to because also then when somebody asks
Speaker 1: something of us, whether it's our child or you know,
Speaker 1: a podcast listener, um, you know, producer, we all want
Speaker 1: to be we all want to be. Yeah, totally right.
Speaker 1: The day that I that I said I commit to
Speaker 1: know more questions or no more answers, um cat called
Speaker 1: me to like talk through some decisions and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, you know, like modern life, there
Speaker 1: are like certain requirements, but you know what, this is
Speaker 1: an honest raw time, Like why should we in life
Speaker 1: not be able to say I can't do this right
Speaker 1: now or I don't want I'm working on it. I'm
Speaker 1: actually really I'm really actively and I would love all
Speaker 1: of us to be on this kick. Like people pleasing,
Speaker 1: the other side of it is that when we don't
Speaker 1: please somebody, then we have to sit with what that
Speaker 1: feels like. It's not like they're the same regardless of
Speaker 1: whether or not we people please, they're not. That's why
Speaker 1: we people please. We are used to doing that mental
Speaker 1: labor so that people like us and so that people
Speaker 1: so that everything goes smoothly. And you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just because I'm always all about the gray areas.
Speaker 1: If we don't people please, if we actually say no
Speaker 1: when we want to say no instead of yes when
Speaker 1: it would be easier for the other people, then suddenly
Speaker 1: there is blowback. And then is that blowback going to
Speaker 1: require as much mental labor to smooth over? Because if so,
Speaker 1: like I'm not incentivized to stop people pleasing, you know,
Speaker 1: this is like this is the actual My my dad,
Speaker 1: God Blessed sent me this amazing New York Times piece
Speaker 1: uh last week about um people pleasing in the age
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, and it came down to, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I just, oh God, I feel this so hard.
Speaker 1: It truly came down to stuff like if women historically
Speaker 1: and traditionally and in our own lives really uh are
Speaker 1: a little bit you know, more um likely to be
Speaker 1: people pleasing, then like we literally are putting ourselves a
Speaker 1: danger because if someone is less concerned about the pandemic
Speaker 1: than we are, and says, come to brunch, it would
Speaker 1: make me feel so much better. Then we're like literally
Speaker 1: think life and death and also thinking people pleasing and
Speaker 1: trying to balance like relationships versus taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 1: And this relationship versus self is this like really deep
Speaker 1: psychological you know thing. I mean, men are supposed to
Speaker 1: be better at taking care of themselves and women are
Speaker 1: supposed to be better at relationships, and like so much
Speaker 1: of society is built to support that. And if we,
Speaker 1: you know, stop playing by the rules, how big are
Speaker 1: the pieces that we're going to have to pick up?
Speaker 1: We're all on this roller coaster of emotions and it
Speaker 1: doesn't all align at the same time. I had an
Speaker 1: experience with a friend um the morning after we had
Speaker 1: protesting in our neighborhood in West Hollywood, and she really
Speaker 1: after I called to check in with her, said simply,
Speaker 1: I can't talk to you right now. And at first
Speaker 1: I was a little taken aback or offended by that reply,
Speaker 1: and then I realized, that's fucking awesome that she said
Speaker 1: that to me because she just couldn't do it. And
Speaker 1: I really actually appreciate it. And I've been trying to
Speaker 1: practice and emulate just that myself without feeling like I'm
Speaker 1: doing something wrong in regards to this pandemic. You know,
Speaker 1: how do you ask people without feeling is as I
Speaker 1: guess my my question for you, and how do you
Speaker 1: ask people without feeling UM like you're pointing fingers or
Speaker 1: you're going to judge them if they are wearing masks,
Speaker 1: if they're getting tested, if their social distancing, who they've seen.
Speaker 1: I think the well two things. One is that this time,
Speaker 1: the fact that this that a mask seems both totally mundane,
Speaker 1: like it's just a piece of fabric, and also totally
Speaker 1: profound because it's about you know, public health on a
Speaker 1: global scale. UM is confusing for a lot of people, Like, truly,
Speaker 1: how do we talk to the trivial aspect of it
Speaker 1: being a piece of fabric or do we talk to
Speaker 1: the profound aspect of it being about you know, life
Speaker 1: and death. So I just want to honor first that,
Speaker 1: like that's what That's partly why UM talking to people
Speaker 1: about this is confusing. I think our brains like don't
Speaker 1: know if it's a big thing or a little thing.
Speaker 1: But the other part of it is that if we
Speaker 1: I think I've been working since literally morning, I woke
Speaker 1: up in November whatever that was the Wednesday. I've been
Speaker 1: working on um allowing myself to be the alarmist person
Speaker 1: in my life, even though my nature is very much
Speaker 1: to be low maintenance and to be laid back and
Speaker 1: to be a not early adopter. I have been trying
Speaker 1: two see all of those things as um ways of
Speaker 1: kind of hiding and protecting myself, and that being alarmist
Speaker 1: is much more vulnerable. It's much more vulnerable to say
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this really seriously before other people do.
Speaker 1: But I think it's actually a leadership move, and especially
Speaker 1: if we're thinking about in terms of servant leadership, which
Speaker 1: is not like my theme, you know, if you're the
Speaker 1: leader of your family, which is not to say other
Speaker 1: people can't be you know, high mark, but like you know,
Speaker 1: but just to say, like in what in what circles
Speaker 1: can we can we make a leadership move. The leadership
Speaker 1: move in this case is to say it is inconvenient
Speaker 1: to ask for what I need, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: do it anyway, and I'm going to work on that
Speaker 1: muscle and I'm gonna be really loving in the process.
Speaker 1: So this is not about shaming people or judging people.
Speaker 1: It's about being of use, of servitude to the people
Speaker 1: that you love, in this case your family. Right, So
Speaker 1: when we're asking before we meet up, I just need
Speaker 1: to know what your protocols have been. We can absolutely
Speaker 1: say that with a without sounding you know, judge, you're shaming.
Speaker 1: We can have that question in our head. Oh god,
Speaker 1: am I sounding this way? But let it let it rest,
Speaker 1: Let it rest. Right. This is about tone, and our
Speaker 1: tone can be as loving and forward, you know, forward energy.
Speaker 1: I like doing a physical gesture of like the care
Speaker 1: bear stair here, you know, like I love out saying
Speaker 1: saying you know. And we can also either apologize, question
Speaker 1: mark you know, quotes, or just like just like signpost.
Speaker 1: But we can say I'm going to ask a tough
Speaker 1: question and I don't want to come across as accusatory.
Speaker 1: We can say that, or we don't have to. You
Speaker 1: could practice not saying it, but but maybe start out
Speaker 1: by saying, but we can signpost like I'm about to
Speaker 1: have a tough conversation with you, and ultimately we get
Speaker 1: to sort of not say that out loud and just
Speaker 1: think it in our heads. But it's useful to do
Speaker 1: that so we know what kind of frame we're going into.
Speaker 1: And actually, another Lisa Nichols thing is about this idea
Speaker 1: of care frontation instead of confrontation, and it's a you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of a h not rolls
Speaker 1: off the tongue type of a word. But you can
Speaker 1: anybody look this up. It's it's not just Lisa Nichols.
Speaker 1: I think it was on an OPRAH show back and
Speaker 1: like the nineties. So you know, the idea of care
Speaker 1: frontation instead of confrontation is that we are going into
Speaker 1: a difficult conversation with the goal in mind of keeping
Speaker 1: the relationship intact by the end. So what does each
Speaker 1: of us do each look in the theater world, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all know how to we we use this term
Speaker 1: fight positively. We all know how in real life to
Speaker 1: try to get the other person. I shouldn't say we
Speaker 1: all know. We all know that that the dream is
Speaker 1: that we get through the tough conversation and the relationship
Speaker 1: remains in intact. But the way to do that is
Speaker 1: to be really intentional about it. I'm gonna ask a
Speaker 1: tough question and I'd love your support, And then the
Speaker 1: tough question is let me know how, and you can
Speaker 1: think through like is this so, is this a way
Speaker 1: to ask this question that's gonna that would make me
Speaker 1: feel good? You know, you can think through this ahead
Speaker 1: of time. You can either go super direct, right have
Speaker 1: you guys been wearing masks? What's been your protocol? Or
Speaker 1: you can say, I know it's been really hard. We're
Speaker 1: all feeling such fatigue, and I wouldn't be you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not here to judge you if you
Speaker 1: guys have been you know, being loose about it. But
Speaker 1: I just need to know for the safety of my family.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. But there you go. Or we could
Speaker 1: flip it and we could say, you tell me how
Speaker 1: this sounds. I'm learning how to use my voice during
Speaker 1: this pandemic, and my family and I live in an
Speaker 1: apartment complex and we see a few people a day,
Speaker 1: and this is where we're at, and I want to
Speaker 1: let you know where I'm at. So can you let
Speaker 1: me know where you're at? Completely? I think the I
Speaker 1: think you know in a way, the least um, the
Speaker 1: less drama that we can add to it. The less
Speaker 1: drama the other person is going to hear in our
Speaker 1: voice and and respond with you know, yeah, it's science.
Speaker 1: You know like it it isn't. It isn't, but you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like the conversation can be about
Speaker 1: like what protocols are you taking? What protocols am I taking?
Speaker 1: Are we a good compatible fit for hanging out? Right now?
Speaker 1: You know this is like a weird ass time, y'all. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and come back with
Speaker 1: more and maybe even get to listener questions. Okay, we're back, cat,
Speaker 1: what do we got? So we're gonna start from more
Speaker 1: of like a bio section about tomorrow. People have a
Speaker 1: lot of questions about you, and I think you've had
Speaker 1: such incredible guests on and have such a variety of
Speaker 1: elements to who you are and parts of your life.
Speaker 1: So let's just start from the top. What exactly do
Speaker 1: you do? Samarrow? Is our first question? And how did
Speaker 1: you get into this field? God? I mean, where to
Speaker 1: where to begin? Um? I decided when I was ten.
Speaker 1: I'm not actually gonna tell you guys the day by
Speaker 1: day since I was ten, but the story begins. I decided,
Speaker 1: literally I remember the day when I was ten, that
Speaker 1: I was going to be a Shakespearean actress. That's so
Speaker 1: funny because one of my next questions is what did
Speaker 1: you want to be when you grow up? I went
Speaker 1: to an amazing Shakespeare festival when I was ten, and
Speaker 1: then again every summer after that in my hometown of
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz, California. Shout out and they did. They had
Speaker 1: actors who were jobbed in from New York who were
Speaker 1: members of the Union. It was like really high quality, smart,
Speaker 1: often modern productions of Shakespeare. I remember a production of
Speaker 1: the Tempest that was very Gilligan's Island and the soundtrack
Speaker 1: was Blondie, so like it wasn't just you know, old
Speaker 1: staid Shakespeare. I was like, I see what they're doing.
Speaker 1: By the way, I was fifteen at that time, so
Speaker 1: that that one I wasn't ten, but that one I
Speaker 1: remember just being like, I see what they're doing. I
Speaker 1: see how shakespea beer is not just somebody who lived
Speaker 1: four hundred years ago and you know, bully him for
Speaker 1: getting lots of words that sounded pretty and stringing them together,
Speaker 1: but rather that Shakespeare is an opportunity for us, in
Speaker 1: every one of our lives and every season of our lives,
Speaker 1: to um revisit ancient yet modern um ideas about how
Speaker 1: humans behave and what it is to like exist together.
Speaker 1: And I think actually in a way that that has,
Speaker 1: like it's so beautiful influenced my life because you know,
Speaker 1: the idea of using Shakespeare, like it's not just Shakespeare
Speaker 1: in and of itself, but it's using Shakespeare to help
Speaker 1: us process our modern world. I'm all about using now
Speaker 1: fill in the blank, anything to help us process our
Speaker 1: modern world. Like that's kind of I don't want to, like,
Speaker 1: I don't actually care about the voice except in so
Speaker 1: much as it helps us process our modern world. You know,
Speaker 1: like nothing really for me matters in and of itself.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that that's horrible. Care about nothing, No,
Speaker 1: But I mean context matters, right, I mean it's so
Speaker 1: it's profoundly um valuable to me to think about it
Speaker 1: that way. Um. But yeah, So when I was ten,
Speaker 1: hadn't cotton to those thoughts yet. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I want to
Speaker 1: do that. And I it took me really till I
Speaker 1: was like thirty to figure out what it is. Part
Speaker 1: in between when I was ten and when I was thirty,
Speaker 1: I thought it was act and I thought it was
Speaker 1: two regional Shakespeare be a nomadic actress never get married,
Speaker 1: never have money. Just like I really clearly super romanticized
Speaker 1: this um and in a way, I kind of did
Speaker 1: everything right in order to be an unpaid Shakespearean actress,
Speaker 1: by the way, that's what I mean. And that entailed
Speaker 1: going to New York getting a master's degree in acting,
Speaker 1: you know, a three year acting program where I was
Speaker 1: doing like voice and speech and yoga and um modern
Speaker 1: as well as Shakespeare all day every day. You know,
Speaker 1: I really, like check check check, was a very good
Speaker 1: student of the world to get this thing done, and
Speaker 1: ended up in New York, got a lot of auditions
Speaker 1: at like literally Shakespeare in the Park in New York City.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like the thing, and it just
Speaker 1: never happened. And it's not to say that it wouldn't
Speaker 1: if I hadn't stayed for another ten years. But I
Speaker 1: saw the writing on the wall. I'm a little weird looking.
Speaker 1: That's that's an actor thing to say. But no, like literally,
Speaker 1: especially especially in my twenties, but when it was just
Speaker 1: an earlier era, uh no one quite knew to do
Speaker 1: with a ethnically ambiguous person. Everybody was like, that's so
Speaker 1: in right now. But literally then they wanted specificity for
Speaker 1: roles and in big ambiguity is the opposite. And uh
Speaker 1: and I was a little like um, I was a
Speaker 1: little more of like a character actor despite being gorgeous.
Speaker 1: So no oneknywe to do with me, Thanks Scott. But
Speaker 1: this idea of quote to what no one knew what
Speaker 1: to do with me. I don't mean to say that
Speaker 1: to put myself down. I mean I literally was told
Speaker 1: that over and over and over. And that was what
Speaker 1: my acting experience was like. And this is so cliche
Speaker 1: that I kind of skipped this part when I talked
Speaker 1: to people about this. But my twenties in New York,
Speaker 1: when I was living like my dream, both in terms
Speaker 1: of actually doing the thing and also in terms of like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I got so many free tickets to
Speaker 1: Broadway shows. I had so many friends. I was never sleeping,
Speaker 1: I was drinking so much red wine. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like making it. I was
Speaker 1: a cocktail waitress. I was I did a billion odd
Speaker 1: jobs to get by. But I also in between all
Speaker 1: that was getting so much free stuff and was like
Speaker 1: hacking the system in terms of like finding the fun
Speaker 1: in New York City. But I just could not get
Speaker 1: paid to act, period, and I could not get representation
Speaker 1: that was really, you know, worthy of the training and
Speaker 1: all this stuff I had done and I got. I
Speaker 1: had comment after comment after comment. I'll never forget this one.
Speaker 1: I did to pay to play, where you you know,
Speaker 1: pay to get to meet somebody who could possibly bring
Speaker 1: you on as a as a client, uh for like
Speaker 1: an agent or manager, I don't remember what he was.
Speaker 1: And he's he looked at my head shot and he said,
Speaker 1: you're wearing glossy lips stick in your head shot and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I like it, it's my look.
Speaker 1: He's like, you got an m f A in acting,
Speaker 1: you don't need to wear glossy lipstick. Oh no, he's happening. Also,
Speaker 1: then I moved to l A, where everybody was like
Speaker 1: literally then I got told when I moved to l A,
Speaker 1: take the m f A off your resume. No one
Speaker 1: cares that you got trained and if anything, I could
Speaker 1: work against you, so you know acting god. And now
Speaker 1: flash forward even more. Now everyone's wearing masks and wants
Speaker 1: to get botox and this part of their face like
Speaker 1: speaking of what did you study though? Did you study
Speaker 1: acting underground? Undergrad? I could it's not a thing. I
Speaker 1: went to Princeton undergrad and I was an English major.
Speaker 1: But uh and and Princeton is super thank you. That
Speaker 1: it's very I mean conservative was the word I was
Speaker 1: going to say. I have all kinds of things I
Speaker 1: can say about this, the social life there, but no,
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say is that it's very conservative
Speaker 1: in terms of like there are very few majors you
Speaker 1: can major in. It's really like we do English economics, philosophy,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like these really kind of standard You
Speaker 1: can't do interdisciplinary work. At least you couldn't back when
Speaker 1: I went there. Um and so I was an English major.
Speaker 1: But there's five programs. Creative Writing is one of them. Uh,
Speaker 1: focuses on different aspects of English literature. Uh. And mine
Speaker 1: was program five, the fifth one, which is Dramatic Literature.
Speaker 1: Which I say because what really happened is that I
Speaker 1: got to just read plays and get a degree, and
Speaker 1: in my downtime I was doing what I was doing
Speaker 1: like six shows e here, I mean producing and acting
Speaker 1: and doing all the things. So it was an amazing
Speaker 1: it was an amazing place to go for that. It
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily like launched me out into the acting world.
Speaker 1: You know, I ended up having to get the m
Speaker 1: f A and feeling like I needed to film the caps.
Speaker 1: But all of this is to say that happened. And
Speaker 1: when I got out of grad school I was twenty six,
Speaker 1: I moved right to New York City. I tried to,
Speaker 1: you know, make this acting thing happen, like I was
Speaker 1: really really good at hustling. But uh, right away I
Speaker 1: had some mentors in the dialect coaching world who I
Speaker 1: had met in the gap year between college and grad
Speaker 1: school when I was in New York as well, who
Speaker 1: just started to throw me clients. I mean I was
Speaker 1: not at a dialect coach in my mind, I was like, thanks,
Speaker 1: I'm an actor. But I knew that, like obviously dialect
Speaker 1: coaching on the side was going to be a better
Speaker 1: way to make money than you know, just waiting tables.
Speaker 1: So I said yes. And it really took me years
Speaker 1: and moving to l A and you know, circumstances changing
Speaker 1: before I realized that that is actually much more where
Speaker 1: my strength lies. And then there was also this transition
Speaker 1: into coaching not just actors but kind of everyone, which
Speaker 1: has happened really just since I mean the election and
Speaker 1: that's where we turned the page. It's funny because I
Speaker 1: actually started my young career as an intern at Shakespeare
Speaker 1: in Company in Lenox, Massachusetts and did not go the
Speaker 1: same path as you. And I'm like, wow, it's like
Speaker 1: sliding doors. But I will say I will say that
Speaker 1: I think my superpower is because of the probably the
Speaker 1: English major neists, but also this, you know, really lifelong
Speaker 1: Shakespeare understanding. I was going to say appreciation. I've gone
Speaker 1: through phases where I'm like enough sucking Shakespeare, but my
Speaker 1: Shakespeare understanding. Um. And also the years that I've worked
Speaker 1: with actors on various scripts. I mean, in between working
Speaker 1: on big projects, I was doing like one on one
Speaker 1: coaching for auditions, and it would just be like during
Speaker 1: pilot season, you know, it would be like twenty in
Speaker 1: a week. Um. My secret skill is in understanding what's
Speaker 1: happening with real humans under the surface of the lines
Speaker 1: on the page, and that actually translates to real humans
Speaker 1: as well as as well as the as well as
Speaker 1: the characters that were written by writers. But really being
Speaker 1: able to understand, like if the line of text is wow,
Speaker 1: that's so exciting, being able to go okay, so that
Speaker 1: person is trying to placate this other person, but they're
Speaker 1: not really in it. And you can tell because of
Speaker 1: the line before, or you can tell because of the
Speaker 1: tone that's written in and helping first of all foreigners
Speaker 1: with that kind of really subtle understanding of the the
Speaker 1: you know, nuance of of own UM, but even helping Americans.
Speaker 1: I mean, when we're looking at words on a page,
Speaker 1: we can get really myopic and and kind of just
Speaker 1: see the words. And I'm here on the side side coaching,
Speaker 1: being like, but here's how human behavior works. So what
Speaker 1: I find so interesting about you is that you have
Speaker 1: such a thoughtful connection between the heart and the brain
Speaker 1: and the mind. And maybe that's because you grew up
Speaker 1: in a home with UM people that are incredibly brilliant. UM.
Speaker 1: I love your parents awesome, and I know you've done
Speaker 1: some really awesome things with them. But did the order
Speaker 1: that you learned or fell in love with the voice?
Speaker 1: Is it more mechanical or more and like mental, more
Speaker 1: deeply rooted in your heart. That's such a such a
Speaker 1: lovely question, I am. I loved learning about the International
Speaker 1: Phonetic Alphabet, which is the more technical stuff that I
Speaker 1: know about. UM. It's fascinating. Tell tell us about this,
Speaker 1: so you know, we can talk about technically a few
Speaker 1: different ways. One of the things that's that's technical about
Speaker 1: the voice is literally the anatomy. I actually never learned
Speaker 1: about that. That's why I was awesome to have Dr
Speaker 1: Gupta on And actually, as I'm writing parts of my
Speaker 1: book that require a really nuanced understanding of like how
Speaker 1: the how breath works in the body, I'm having to
Speaker 1: go to resources. For sure, I do not have that
Speaker 1: living inside of me. But the other way we can
Speaker 1: talk about technical is the stuff that's kind of from
Speaker 1: like the neck up. This is sort of the joke
Speaker 1: of like what articulation is versus voice work is really
Speaker 1: just like what's happening in the mouth. And even that
Speaker 1: I don't I don't actually linger that much. In the
Speaker 1: anatomical people talk about oral posture, which is this fancy
Speaker 1: term for like where your voice is placed in your mouth.
Speaker 1: It's not I don't think that way. But the International
Speaker 1: Phonetic Alphabet is sort of like learning music. It is
Speaker 1: annoying to learn music theory, but then you can play music.
Speaker 1: It is annoying to learn all the symbols of the
Speaker 1: International Phonetic alphabet. But then you can decode anybody's accent
Speaker 1: in the entire your world. So cool. I don't want
Speaker 1: to name names, but I have a friend who is
Speaker 1: an English teacher and English is not her first language,
Speaker 1: and she wasn't making the hard G sound happen in
Speaker 1: the word English. So every time she was introducing a
Speaker 1: new program, she was saying English English, there's an n
Speaker 1: G sound M. It's a single symbol in international for that,
Speaker 1: a alphabet, the n G M. And then she was
Speaker 1: going from the UMM into the L English English, and
Speaker 1: I could hear it and instantly be like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a hard G that happens after the um in googog
Speaker 1: English when we actually pronounced that word, when when Native
Speaker 1: American speakers pronounced that word, and she was leaving it
Speaker 1: out and trying to make this really amazing like energy
Speaker 1: into L happened, which I don't know, I don't think
Speaker 1: maybe happens in English. A few people actually wrote in
Speaker 1: about how did you figure out what you wanted to
Speaker 1: do as a career. I'm feeling lost, and I think
Speaker 1: what you said. You know, you being a results driven person,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people are when we're trying to
Speaker 1: discover and figure out that, and you can't have that
Speaker 1: in front of you, to just feel that passion and
Speaker 1: to tap into what you love. I mean it sounds
Speaker 1: so cliche and like we're really lucky to be able
Speaker 1: to even you know, have the opportunity to live that way.
Speaker 1: But I think if we can connect the brain and
Speaker 1: the heart like you do and really just move forward
Speaker 1: and find find curiosity and what we're exploring in life,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that's like such I think
Speaker 1: it's confusing too, because there's such a um there's such
Speaker 1: a culture of follow your passion, find your dream, don't
Speaker 1: let anybody tell you know, and that keeps that makes us,
Speaker 1: That makes it very hard for us to as room.
Speaker 1: He says, be quiet and maybe here well that too,
Speaker 1: but to be quiet in here because sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: when you're ten and you decide what you want to
Speaker 1: do in twenty years later, you're still fighting for it.
Speaker 1: There is definitely a way you can talk to yourself
Speaker 1: and say that's right, you're brave, you're courageous, you're not
Speaker 1: let us listening to know. And there's another part of
Speaker 1: you that can say, um, maybe when I was ten,
Speaker 1: I didn't actually know what I wanted to do with
Speaker 1: my life, and I am allowed to change and pick it.
Speaker 1: And I will tell one story. When I was thirty one,
Speaker 1: I had just gotten to l A and I got
Speaker 1: this really fancy agent for TV and film dialect work,
Speaker 1: who I still have. She's amazing, going a little crazy
Speaker 1: and the pandemic because everything is shut down. God bluss um.
Speaker 1: I did my first onset coaching. It was a little
Speaker 1: movie that not a lot of people saw, perfect for me.
Speaker 1: But I was being paid more than like everybody else
Speaker 1: on set because it was sag ultra low budget, which
Speaker 1: if anybody listening and knows, means like everyone on set
Speaker 1: is getting paid a hundred bucks a day. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like no, you know, uh. But I got a
Speaker 1: little more than that and was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm living the dream. And I was just to set
Speaker 1: the scene. At the time, when I was thirty ish,
Speaker 1: newly in l A. I was a personal assisting for
Speaker 1: a celebrity who is a difficult human be trying to
Speaker 1: make acting happen now on this coast with also no
Speaker 1: representation and trying to get taken seriously, which was you know,
Speaker 1: painful of the soul and then three suddenly dialect coaching
Speaker 1: on my first movie, getting paid more than anyone else.
Speaker 1: Uh Billy Crystal was on set and the director at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the process was clearly like, who is
Speaker 1: this smiley, weird girl hanging out with my lead actor? Why?
Speaker 1: Like who led her on our set? And by the end,
Speaker 1: I remember we were doing post production where it was
Speaker 1: the actor and in front of a microphone and the
Speaker 1: director and me and like the script supervisor alone in
Speaker 1: a room trying to get some post production means we
Speaker 1: were fixing sound stuff after we had actually finished shooting
Speaker 1: the movie, and the actor did what he needed to
Speaker 1: do into the microphone and the director goes, good for me, Samara,
Speaker 1: is that good for you? And I cannot tell you
Speaker 1: that was in a way when it all clicked, And
Speaker 1: I was like, trying to find people in this town
Speaker 1: to take me seriously as an actor is not worth it.
Speaker 1: When I can have this feeling of being a thirty
Speaker 1: year old girl with this toll you know, director man
Speaker 1: with this like huge persona deferring to me, And I
Speaker 1: was like, that's when I realized that ten year old
Speaker 1: me didn't know what but she was doing. I mean, god,
Speaker 1: bless right. I had to go through it and it
Speaker 1: made me better. And the way that I tell that
Speaker 1: story about but when I was ten is on purpose
Speaker 1: because I said that I wanted to do that, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that was. And it turns out
Speaker 1: that what that was quote unquote, that wasn't acting. It
Speaker 1: was some other thing that has to do with when
Speaker 1: you're in an audience and everybody's breathing together, and a
Speaker 1: story is being told and people are being moved, and
Speaker 1: there are so many different puzzle pieces to put together
Speaker 1: that image. You don't have to act to do that.
Speaker 1: As it turns out, I can help an actor tell
Speaker 1: the story in a way that feels more embodied and
Speaker 1: more real, and help a director feel like I'm helping
Speaker 1: that actor tell the story using language they don't know.
Speaker 1: How often directors don't know how to talk to actors
Speaker 1: the way I do, which is not to say that
Speaker 1: I'm encroaching on director's territory, but it's to say that
Speaker 1: we're all working together as a team to tell the
Speaker 1: story that's ultimately going to make that audience all breathed
Speaker 1: together as one. Well. That was one of our Another
Speaker 1: listener's questions was what do you find most interesting about
Speaker 1: the human voice? If we're not just thinking about technically,
Speaker 1: but we're thinking about huge, big picture looking down from above,
Speaker 1: how each of us sounds are idiolect As we discussed
Speaker 1: with doctor Charity Hudley, how each of us sounds is
Speaker 1: different from how every other person on Earth sounds. And
Speaker 1: that is not just for the obvious reasons, like we
Speaker 1: all grew up in a different place, and we have
Speaker 1: the different parents that we have, and we have the
Speaker 1: different cultures we have. It's all of that, but it's
Speaker 1: also the microadjustments that each of us makes in order
Speaker 1: to navigate the different spaces we've been in. Who do
Speaker 1: we want to sound like? Who do we want to
Speaker 1: fit in? With this human desire we all have to
Speaker 1: belong comes out in our voices. We do not unless
Speaker 1: we have like a real uh neuro atypical quality where
Speaker 1: we're not able to sort of pick up on cues
Speaker 1: in the room, which is which is very real. If
Speaker 1: we're not in that in that category, we all are
Speaker 1: picking up on like oh, when I said this thing
Speaker 1: this way, somebody gave me a weird look. I don't
Speaker 1: like that look. I'm going to change it. So I
Speaker 1: never say it like that again, or you know, there's
Speaker 1: a billion of these little things that we're all doing.
Speaker 1: The reason that a bunch of women say like, it's
Speaker 1: not just like it's it's it's it's inherent to our
Speaker 1: anatomy and it just comes up, you know, through nature.
Speaker 1: It's obviously the nurture side of it. It's obviously if
Speaker 1: our friends say it, we reflect back our friends because
Speaker 1: we're empathetic humans who are always trying to do this
Speaker 1: dance with other humans, to be understood, to communicate, to
Speaker 1: be seen, to be loved. That is what I love
Speaker 1: about the voice. That's what I love about you. All Right, guys,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a break for one second and
Speaker 1: we'll be right back. So we are back. We are
Speaker 1: back with Samarrow Bay as my guest. Unpermision to speak.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, she's the host. Okay, So we have that's
Speaker 1: what a producer is. Hungary. Okay, So what was your
Speaker 1: most recent struggle where you felt like you lost your
Speaker 1: voice tomorrow? What did you do or what are you
Speaker 1: doing currently to find your voice again? And how did
Speaker 1: you get out of the situation. It's such a beautiful question.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the person who's asking is talking
Speaker 1: about the literal voice or the metaphorical, because that's sort
Speaker 1: of like what we've set up here. The person that
Speaker 1: is asking, I will say, is the general manager of
Speaker 1: a very big restaurant here in Los Angeles. A gentleman
Speaker 1: doesn't really help with that with the idea of like
Speaker 1: what what what sort of thing he wants from me?
Speaker 1: I would say, because it's during the pandemic where it's
Speaker 1: like he just has no control over what is happening
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis and people are sort
Speaker 1: of disrespecting his authority, I would say, Or the ranger
Speaker 1: as it should go in a in a in a
Speaker 1: setting of UM, a restaurant coming from both sides, from
Speaker 1: the top owner who is also a sort of a brand,
Speaker 1: down to the the staff. It's a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean, how to UM seem like your authority, you
Speaker 1: know when you do, but people aren't treating you that way. UM.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of the status games in UM theater school,
Speaker 1: the whole sort of UM joke or trick with status
Speaker 1: if we're playing high status and low status, just even
Speaker 1: in a game context where we're just like switch on
Speaker 1: a you know this like really artificial thing where somebody
Speaker 1: snaps and you switch to being low status whatever that is,
Speaker 1: and feels like the trick is that we can't actually
Speaker 1: really play high status. It has to be given to us. Right,
Speaker 1: So some of this is like in our personal lives,
Speaker 1: we want to find people who appreciate us, but in
Speaker 1: our professional lives we can't always ask that of people. Right,
Speaker 1: We're stuck with who we are working with. All we
Speaker 1: can do is honestly do sort of sort of confrontations.
Speaker 1: These affrontations like if it's if it's if it feels
Speaker 1: like it's everybody is feeling that way to him, then
Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's something in the way that he's
Speaker 1: um communicating that he could really look at. But if
Speaker 1: it is about individuals who are undermining him, there is
Speaker 1: a chance that that I think he has to take
Speaker 1: to have a private conversation and say, in order for
Speaker 1: me to do my job, here's what I think, here's
Speaker 1: how I need support from you. Um. That was not
Speaker 1: the answer to his question, though I know he's asking
Speaker 1: about me. I just really wanted to hopefully coach him
Speaker 1: a little bit. But um, but for me, I would
Speaker 1: say I'm going to be really honest here and say
Speaker 1: that the way I am having trouble with my own
Speaker 1: voice these days is trying to write a book during
Speaker 1: a global pandemic. I think I had, you know, I
Speaker 1: haven't talked about it much on on this podcast, but um,
Speaker 1: at the end of March, I had this insane life
Speaker 1: changing experience, um of despite the pandemic already being underway
Speaker 1: in New York, being in a horrible state, so I
Speaker 1: couldn't fly there anymore to have these publisher meetings I
Speaker 1: was supposed to have. I nonetheless got interest from fourteen
Speaker 1: different publishers and did zoom meetings back to back over
Speaker 1: a three day period, and thirteen out of fourteen of
Speaker 1: them bid. And it was this amazing bidding war over
Speaker 1: my book proposal, which is on a lot of the
Speaker 1: same themes as this podcast, but very much like here
Speaker 1: are the patterns I've seen here here, the different sort
Speaker 1: of categories and each chapter is a different category of
Speaker 1: way that we can sort of get in our own
Speaker 1: way and that we can shift out of that and um,
Speaker 1: and I got so much love for for it, and
Speaker 1: I had so many sales during the craziest time, and
Speaker 1: I mean it's great, like I am so lucky a
Speaker 1: clap for that, thank you, and in a dream scenario,
Speaker 1: while I was writing this proposal all last year, UM,
Speaker 1: my plan was to write the book while doing workshops,
Speaker 1: while interacting, while being in communion with you know you
Speaker 1: guys who are listening in face to face, voice to voice,
Speaker 1: like really trying stuff out, really feeling like I'm in
Speaker 1: the weeds and the trenches and whatever the metaphor is,
Speaker 1: so that I'm this isn't just like abstract theoretical work,
Speaker 1: and I don't have enough time to get in my
Speaker 1: head about you know, who's out there, Hello, Hello, Hello,
Speaker 1: and instead, you know, obviously we were at where we're at.
Speaker 1: And so the answer to his question about how it's
Speaker 1: been the hardest for me to use my voice is
Speaker 1: somebody tweeted something um that I posted on my personal
Speaker 1: Instagram account this last week that basically says like, if
Speaker 1: it's been feeling really hard for you, and if your
Speaker 1: regular coping mechanisms haven't been working, You're not alone. And
Speaker 1: I just want to I just want to shout out that,
Speaker 1: like I don't know how much of the drama I'm
Speaker 1: having is just like bookwriting is hard. Hello, everybody has
Speaker 1: said that through all of human history, or if it's
Speaker 1: a book, writing is hard during a pandemic, when we're
Speaker 1: feeling really disconnected, and also when I am trying to
Speaker 1: write for a future that I want to live in
Speaker 1: while not always waking up every day believing that that
Speaker 1: future is possible. It is so part of my own
Speaker 1: ethos and my own um, you know, brand to be
Speaker 1: really optimistic, to be like, y'all, we are heading towards something,
Speaker 1: let's do it together, right, And I don't always have
Speaker 1: the resources in myself to like sit down at my
Speaker 1: desk optimism forward. And that is like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and honest and like not fake it. And
Speaker 1: also I think part of being a servant leader is
Speaker 1: about providing hope. I mean, at least talked about that
Speaker 1: like it's an obligation. I have to be hopeful, it's
Speaker 1: an obligation. And also I'm not always hopeful. So that's
Speaker 1: what's hard. I appreciate your authenticity and your vulnerability with
Speaker 1: that because a lot of people are struggling with that
Speaker 1: right now. It's a really hard time. And then on
Speaker 1: top of it, you throw in kids, you throw in.
Speaker 1: I mean, just so many relationships, shifts, so much claustrophobia,
Speaker 1: so much angst, and so much hatred, and we got
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, Okay, we gotta be honest
Speaker 1: with each other and so we can get back to
Speaker 1: that place of optimism so that we can be healthy,
Speaker 1: so that we can still feel and shine. And it
Speaker 1: really does start with each of us. But to know that,
Speaker 1: like this time is just fucking hard, and it's okay
Speaker 1: to just feel that sometimes. I really appreciate that, smorrow
Speaker 1: because I know that that this isn't easy. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and I also want to say, Cat, before you go on,
Speaker 1: that you and I have been having conversations about mental
Speaker 1: health insomuch as it relates to this podcast and actually
Speaker 1: connects with that lovely quote that you surpressed me with
Speaker 1: up top about how we talk to ourselves. Right. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am not somebody who has a history of mental
Speaker 1: health issues. I really lucked out, you know, I really
Speaker 1: lucked out, but I did not luck up. But no,
Speaker 1: I mean I hear you. You know it's I have
Speaker 1: discovered how rare it is. Um. I have felt very
Speaker 1: even keeled most of my life, but like this pandemic
Speaker 1: is bringing stuff up for everybody, because of course we're
Speaker 1: living in this low grade ongoing christ this that really
Speaker 1: is a crisis, and our body is feeling of the crisis,
Speaker 1: even if we can convince our brain that you know,
Speaker 1: it's not. And then you know, for those of us
Speaker 1: who have kids, there is also this added level of like,
Speaker 1: we have to be somewhat fully processed ourselves so that
Speaker 1: we can create a loving enough, safe enough space for them.
Speaker 1: And I actually wonder if that's been helpful. Like I
Speaker 1: took a few days away to to do a writer's
Speaker 1: retreat a few weeks ago, and it was actually I
Speaker 1: actually went to a much darker place, Like I wonder
Speaker 1: if it's actually been like keeping me in a better
Speaker 1: spot to have to be that for my child. But
Speaker 1: it is also an additional level of mental labor and
Speaker 1: exhausting to not just be able to like be truly
Speaker 1: furious when I read something that makes me furious, but
Speaker 1: rather have to like instantly and not instant. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't obviously we we can be however honest we
Speaker 1: want to be with our kids. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: putting this on anybody else, but for me, I know
Speaker 1: that with my five year old who's sensitive enough that
Speaker 1: he picks up on stuff. Um, I have to just
Speaker 1: take personal responsibility. Do I want to sit in my
Speaker 1: fury or sit in my sadness to the extent that
Speaker 1: he's then going to pick up on it and I'm
Speaker 1: then going to have to deal with him, which is
Speaker 1: which is what I have to say we've been dealing
Speaker 1: with in our household. Like I suffer from depression and anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I'm a big, big advocate of speaking honestly about
Speaker 1: mental health. Um, it's something that people have feel shame around.
Speaker 1: And there's no reason to feel that if we were
Speaker 1: sick with cancer we would talk about it. So I
Speaker 1: wouldn't we do the same. And some of that emotion
Speaker 1: that I carry, I have found, you know, I wear
Speaker 1: my emotions on my sleeve. And it's really practicing that
Speaker 1: balance though sometimes just being quiet and sitting with that
Speaker 1: uncomfortable feeling but not knowing at this time where you
Speaker 1: can go run to a friend and like talk to
Speaker 1: them and easily do that is really tough because you
Speaker 1: become you're in your head a lot, and I just
Speaker 1: just change up our scenario just like go dancing, go
Speaker 1: doing like so much of the stuff. You know, the
Speaker 1: coping mechanisms aren't just yoga and drinking tea and meditation,
Speaker 1: you know. The coping mechanism for me is like seeing
Speaker 1: for you know, doing stuff, leading, leaning into our support
Speaker 1: system and people that lift us up. So this is
Speaker 1: a reminder to everyone if you listen to this entire
Speaker 1: episode to go find someone over zoom or distantly that
Speaker 1: we'll we'll pick you up and hold you in the
Speaker 1: space that you deserve. I mean, I will say that
Speaker 1: one of one of my favorite things I've done lately
Speaker 1: is UM in order to get me out of my
Speaker 1: funk with uh trying to book right to like a
Speaker 1: blank you know, blank screen with no human on the
Speaker 1: other side. Is that kind of backtracked and did a
Speaker 1: little bit of like who's my ideal reader? And I
Speaker 1: thought of four friends who are totally like who I
Speaker 1: have in three out of four of the cases. I've
Speaker 1: actually coached them as well, so they know of me
Speaker 1: as sort of you know, in in coach friend land
Speaker 1: already the sort of nebulous zone UM and asked them
Speaker 1: if I could sort of interview them for half an
Speaker 1: hour and recorded and asked them, like really kind of
Speaker 1: on the spot questions like what's your relationship to your voice?
Speaker 1: And I mean I got so much out of that,
Speaker 1: you know, the equivalent of like those of you list
Speaker 1: sitting like getting to actually just sort of ask you
Speaker 1: guys questions back um is connections about connecting for sure,
Speaker 1: but also just like I tried to not talk because
Speaker 1: I really wanted to just like have the recording be
Speaker 1: you know, them talking in their own way, giving me
Speaker 1: new ways to think about this stuff. But inevitably I
Speaker 1: was jumping in. I mean actually did a pretty good
Speaker 1: job of not doing it, but like inevitably I was
Speaker 1: jumping in because we would we would like go off
Speaker 1: on tangents where we were planning something new that made
Speaker 1: us both excited based on what they said. And that
Speaker 1: is like what I missed from not having like our
Speaker 1: coworking space to go to like just the sort of
Speaker 1: the surprise element of conversationsh pandemic times. Y'all. Okay, we
Speaker 1: are going to drop another episode with way more listener
Speaker 1: questions next week, so listen for that. And thank you
Speaker 1: to Cat for joining me, for bantering with me and
Speaker 1: cheerleading the heck out of this podcast, and of course
Speaker 1: for doing the actual work of gathering the questions and
Speaker 1: for you for sending them in. Thank you to Sophie
Speaker 1: Lichterman and the team at I Heeart Radio and all
Speaker 1: of you. We're recording this podcast at various locations around
Speaker 1: Los Angeles on land that is the historic gathering place
Speaker 1: for the Tongva indigenous tribe, and you can visit U.
Speaker 1: S d A C dot us to learn more about
Speaker 1: honoring Native land. Permission to Speak is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Double Vision, Executive produced by Katherine
Speaker 1: Burke Canton and Mark Canton. For more podcasts from my
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, listen on the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows.