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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, Trust trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person. I've never lied to you,

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Speaker 3: I've never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about our Cults

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Speaker 2: extreme belief in manipulation from two songstresses who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We are songstresses

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Speaker 2: interviewing another songstress because today is part one of our

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Speaker 2: two part interview with Margie Mozart. She is a musician

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Speaker 2: and she's a former member of the FLDS. Finally, in

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Speaker 2: part one, this week, she's going to talk to us

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Speaker 2: about what her childhood was like living with a mother

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Speaker 2: with a rebellious streak within a highly controlling community and

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Speaker 2: call Alorata City. How she spent her childhood dreaming of

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Speaker 2: being a musician instead of dreaming of being someone's wife,

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Speaker 2: and the cognitive distance that would come up here and

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Speaker 2: there throughout her life.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us about getting married to a grown man

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Speaker 1: when she was only seventeen, how that impacted her relationship

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Speaker 1: with her mom, and what that harrowing wedding day was like.

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Speaker 1: And next week we'll discuss being a plural wife, how

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Speaker 1: she learned about abuse and got out, and what her

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Speaker 1: life is like now. I love her, I.

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Speaker 2: Love her too. This is a really good one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and next week is a really good one.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 2: Stay with it, folks, because it gets really emotional but

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Speaker 2: also really inspirational in the end, before we dive in.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sick of saying that phrase before we jump in,

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Speaker 2: before we get into it. Yeah, with Margie Megan, what's

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Speaker 2: your cultist thing.

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Speaker 1: I've been listening to a new podcast from a suggestion

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Speaker 1: from a new friend of mine. Her name is Chelsea.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Chelsea for the suggestion. It's called The Plain

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Speaker 1: People Podcast and it's about former Mennonights and Amish. I

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Speaker 1: was just listening to it and they were talking about

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Speaker 1: how a lot of the information the public is getting

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Speaker 1: about the groups is from professors and not from people

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Speaker 1: actually in the group, So it'll be like doctor Brown,

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Speaker 1: studyer of Amish whatever says that there's no crime in

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Speaker 1: Amish communities. It's very little, and they're like, why don't

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Speaker 1: you ask the women, right or the people living in it?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to ask the people who are actually

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Speaker 2: directly experiencing the thing.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's all to say. I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: talk to her because I have seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: documentaries about the FLDS, and I've I've just never talked

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Speaker 1: to somebody who's gotten out of it, Yeah, directly without production,

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Speaker 1: without anything, just hear their story. It's really really cool. Totally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't I can't believe we go we gone.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe we gone this long without doing it,

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Speaker 2: especially because I feel like that's a culture that that's

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Speaker 2: very much a part of my life. Yeah, yeah, I know,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, but yeah, her story is fascinating and sad

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Speaker 2: and also, like I said, inspiring. Anyway, We're not going

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Speaker 2: to hype it up anymore. No, it's just it's cool

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Speaker 2: to get the first kind account. What about you, what's

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Speaker 2: your cultist.

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Speaker 1: Thing of the week?

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Speaker 2: While I'm trying not to lose my mind because the

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Speaker 2: state of the world is freaking me out.

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Speaker 3: Not me.

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Speaker 2: I've been reading about effective altruism, which in theory sounds

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Speaker 2: like it would be right up my alley because it's

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Speaker 2: like the general ideas like, oh, we're going to use

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Speaker 2: statistics and numbers to be super rational about how to

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Speaker 2: do the most good in the world possible with the

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Speaker 2: money that we have. So it's like try and figuring

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Speaker 2: out how to maximize your altruism basically in a very

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Speaker 2: like logic based way. So like in theory, it sounds

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Speaker 2: like something that I'd be really into and would be

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Speaker 2: really cool, but then in practice it's like a bunch

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Speaker 2: of like super rich, techbro white dudes who are like

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Speaker 2: making these decisions. And apparently this culture is like pretty

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Speaker 2: problematic in terms of like the way that they There's

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Speaker 2: been some like sexual misconduct allegations coming from people who

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Speaker 2: are like big within the community. There's a very like

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Speaker 2: communal vibe going on with polyamory, which.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, is that this where all

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Speaker 1: the sex parties come in that I've been reading.

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Speaker 2: About about with this community specifically.

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Speaker 1: Or just Silicon Valley in general.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a lot of that going on.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with polyamory, there's nothing wrong with sex parties.

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Speaker 2: But it sounds like some women fell a bit coerced

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Speaker 2: into doing some of that stuff because it was like, well,

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Speaker 2: are you really an effective altruist if you're not doing whatever? Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that much about it yet. I find

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Speaker 2: it super fascinating though, and we should probably do a

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Speaker 2: whole episode on it, yea.

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Speaker 1: If anybody wants to be a guest, to contact us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also, I hate that, like something that sounds so great,

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Speaker 2: like let's maximize our positive impact on the world. Of

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Speaker 2: course we can't have nice things, you know. Of course

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Speaker 2: it's got to be bad in some ways, but maybe

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Speaker 2: it's fine in other ways. And it just depends on

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Speaker 2: the person, because that's how life is, and these things

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Speaker 2: aren't black and white.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we shall see more to be determined.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, let's talk to Margie.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Margie Mozart to trust me. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us today.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Also, you look so cute and christmasy in your red

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Speaker 2: turtleneck sweater.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you look exactly like a young Shannon Dougherty Doherty.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she does. I said Lydia deats earlier,

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Speaker 2: but I think Shannon Doherty is better.

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Speaker 1: They're both great.

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Speaker 2: Now everyone knows what Margie looks like.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 2: So, Margie, we are talking to you today because you

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Speaker 2: are someone who grew up in the FLDS. It's honestly

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Speaker 2: weird how much time has passed of us doing this

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Speaker 2: episode that we haven't had on a former FLDS member.

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Speaker 2: We had on current FLDS members very early on. But

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Speaker 2: now I'm really excited to kind of hear a story

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Speaker 2: of someone who has left the group. So can you

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Speaker 2: start by telling us a little bit about your childhood?

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Speaker 2: How many kids were in your family? What was the deal?

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Speaker 1: What was it like?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so when I was born, I was my mom

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Speaker 3: had eleven kids, and I'm her baby girl. My dad

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Speaker 3: actually he had two wives only at one time, and

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Speaker 3: that was before I was born, long before I was

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Speaker 3: ever born. He married my mom first, and then he

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Speaker 3: had like three kids, and then and then he married

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Speaker 3: a second wife, and then my mom had another child,

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Speaker 3: so that I think it was. Yeah, so she had

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Speaker 3: her fourth child very much time and my dad was

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Speaker 3: only married to a second wife for thirteen months and

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Speaker 3: at the time when he married the second wife, and

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Speaker 3: it was like late sixty that's when I married her,

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Speaker 3: and or she passed away of an ectopic pregnancy, so

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Speaker 3: there wasn't in today's world that's like an outpatient of

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Speaker 3: surgery kind of. But back then, I didn't really know

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Speaker 3: what to do for women who had a topic prenecis anyway.

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Speaker 3: So and then my dad and mom marriage was she

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Speaker 3: was his only wife for my entire life, so by

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Speaker 3: the time I came along and everything that was only

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Speaker 3: just her, so I didn't grow up with polygamy in

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Speaker 3: the home. And also, my mom was very, very musical.

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Speaker 3: She was like she was known to the community as

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Speaker 3: like missus music and everybody new work because she was

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Speaker 3: kind of the town celebrity. And as far as like

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Speaker 3: music goes, my whole life, I've been performing, so from

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Speaker 3: the day, like I was two years old when I

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Speaker 3: performed the first time on the piano and that's where

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Speaker 3: I earned my nickname Margine Mozart. Yeah, my whole life,

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Speaker 3: I've been so involved in music because that's how it

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Speaker 3: was growing up. And my mom's home was always filled

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Speaker 3: with me that she was always working on some sort

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Speaker 3: of a songwriting like a cantata, or she was writing operettas,

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Speaker 3: or she was like writing for universities like close by,

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Speaker 3: or you know, like she was very very well educated

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Speaker 3: in music, but never had a degree in music. So

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Speaker 3: it was really she also was arranging because she was

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Speaker 3: thirteen years old. So oh right, prodigy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you grow up in Colorado City?

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Speaker 3: Yep, I was born and raised in Colorado City.

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Speaker 2: For anyone who might be new to the FLDS, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think most of our listeners are probably relatively familiar,

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Speaker 2: but for anyone who's new, can you just kind of

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Speaker 2: describe what this group is and what this town is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure. So for anybody who doesn't already know, you've

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Speaker 3: heard of the LDS Church or the Mormon Church. And

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Speaker 3: it was like kind of started by founded kind of

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Speaker 3: by Joseph Smith. And Joseph Smith had the he's like

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Speaker 3: got revelations or whatever according to his beliefs, that he

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Speaker 3: should take on more wives, and so he began that

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Speaker 3: and so like that's the kind of the foundation of

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Speaker 3: the fundamentals of the church. Later on than like towards

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Speaker 3: the end of the eighteen hundreds, the Mormon Church just

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Speaker 3: avowed polygamy, and that's where the FLDS kind of branched off,

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Speaker 3: and then they continued with polygamy, so they had different

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Speaker 3: church leaders. It was a smaller church. It was like

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Speaker 3: a flinter group. And I know there's been many many

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Speaker 3: groups since have been like broken off and all that.

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Speaker 3: This particular one moved to southern Utah and like right

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Speaker 3: on the border of Arizona and Utah. That's where they

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Speaker 3: formed a town and it became the Fundamentalist Church of

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Speaker 3: Jesus Christ of Latterday States, so FLDS. That's where I

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Speaker 3: was born and raised. So I think that pretty much

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Speaker 3: suns where that all came from.

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Speaker 1: How many people were in your community.

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Speaker 3: I think it was like five thousand or something, and

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Speaker 3: I might be completely way off, but in my memory

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Speaker 3: then there was like a sign of roadside and I

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Speaker 3: think it said something like Colorado City population five thousand,

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Speaker 3: but I might be wrong. I might numbers, but that

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Speaker 3: sounds right memory.

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Speaker 2: It was super tiny, super tiny, and the first time

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Speaker 2: that I went there, which was before my mom lived there,

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Speaker 2: because my mom lives there now, there was really no

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Speaker 2: one there other than FLDS people years ago, and that's

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Speaker 2: changed a lot obviously in the past ten years. It's

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Speaker 2: a whole nother story, but we have to obviously touch

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Speaker 2: on the also the main thing that people kind of

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Speaker 2: understand about the FLDS, which is that the profit is

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Speaker 2: the currently imprisoned Warren Jeffs, who was arrested for taking

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Speaker 2: underage brides and you know, sexually abusing children. But many

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Speaker 2: of the people in the religion believe that that is

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Speaker 2: like a conspiracy and he didn't actually do those things

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Speaker 2: because those things are wrong, and their profit would never

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Speaker 2: do those things. Okay, So when you were growing up,

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Speaker 2: did you ever interact with him?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, for sure. I got married in my teens

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Speaker 3: as a plural wife. And when I and he was

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Speaker 3: the one that did it.

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Speaker 2: And then when the one that married that married you

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Speaker 2: or that, yeah.

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Speaker 3: He was the like the official or the wow, the

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Speaker 3: person that performed the marriage.

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Speaker 1: Was he the matchmaker?

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Speaker 3: I don't actually know exactly how that worked because Rule

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Speaker 3: and Jess was still alive at the time that I

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Speaker 3: got married, and I don't know if it was him

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Speaker 3: or if it was Warren or the exactly was like

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Speaker 3: what they call placed, you know, assigned my marriage, So

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Speaker 3: so yeah, I think I'm not sure exactly which one

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Speaker 3: did it, right, Yeah, there was I did have some

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Speaker 3: interactions throughout my four year marriage at that time.

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Speaker 2: So wow, okay, I want to get to the marriage

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Speaker 2: because that's I mean obviously insane. But before we get

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Speaker 2: in to that, like, can you kind of talk about

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Speaker 2: just the culture of being a little girl and the FLDS,

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Speaker 2: like what do kids do every day? Was education like,

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Speaker 2: or at least at the time, so when.

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Speaker 3: I grew up, it was it was public school, but

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Speaker 3: it was like I don't know if there were certain

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Speaker 3: subjects taken out or whatever, but that was the bulk

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Speaker 3: of just like what someone needs to like like live

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Speaker 3: in this world basically like growing up, you know, it

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Speaker 3: was like the regular school curriculum, but I was taken

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Speaker 3: out in I was tenth grade when I got married,

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Speaker 3: so wow, it was like, yeah, so I didn't get

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Speaker 3: to finish school. But other than that than pretty much

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Speaker 3: the school, I don't There wasn't like sex education or

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Speaker 3: anything like that in high school like what I've seen

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Speaker 3: that people have. But I yeah, so even getting married

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Speaker 3: actually even then I didn't have any clue about anything

254
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Speaker 3: and growing up for me, I grew up in a

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Speaker 3: house that my dad and I've said it like this before.

256
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Speaker 3: My dad had one wife, we had my mom had

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Speaker 3: eleven kids. We lived in a very small house. We

258
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Speaker 3: were like by the time I came along, all of

259
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Speaker 3: my oldest siblings were married, well, the two oldest siblings

260
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Speaker 3: were married, and then I had like the third was

261
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Speaker 3: got married not too long. I was just a little

262
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Speaker 3: tiny when that he got married, and then like the like.

263
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Speaker 3: So basically there were like grandkids coming at the same

264
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Speaker 3: In fact, I'm younger than my mom's oldest grandchild. So like,

265
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Speaker 3: so I grew up with my my sister kids, my

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Speaker 3: like my oldest siblings kids. They were there were my friends,

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Speaker 3: you know, growing up. But like I was just I

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Speaker 3: was saying, like in my life, my dad was like

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the totem paula in the community. So

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Speaker 3: he wasn't like one of the leading men or you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the He was like as thirving, Like he

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Speaker 3: was always thirving in his lifetime. And he was like

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Speaker 3: one of the men that would go out and work

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Speaker 3: and bring home to the church or whatever. And he

275
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Speaker 3: was trucker and the mechanic and very like, very hard

276
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Speaker 3: working man, and he didn't have any of the problems

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Speaker 3: that like as I've heard that Warren has like the

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Speaker 3: stuff that Warren would do, you know, like like I

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Speaker 3: didn't hear like I didn't even think any of that

280
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Speaker 3: stuff was real when I actually finally heard about it,

281
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Speaker 3: because my dad wasn't like that, and I didn't grow

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Speaker 3: up in a home or my dad was about tib

283
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Speaker 3: like that, So so that was unreal to me because

284
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Speaker 3: I didn't see it myself.

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Speaker 2: I had a good example of a like a good

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Speaker 2: man in your life. And right, right, was there any

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Speaker 2: particular reason why your dad was sort of considered lower

288
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Speaker 2: status in the community, Like what would determine what would

289
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Speaker 2: give a man's status?

290
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Speaker 1: One wife?

291
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Speaker 2: Right, you know, lots of lots of men had one wife. Really,

292
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Speaker 2: I mean, at least that I know.

293
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Speaker 3: Having more than having one wife, I mean getting another

294
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Speaker 3: wife did in my lifetime, it was called I'm trying

295
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Speaker 3: to remember the exact word advancement advance.

296
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Speaker 2: But the person who determines that is Warren.

297
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that leader, yeah decided, but my dad like

298
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Speaker 3: was never advanced after like, and I don't know exactly

299
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Speaker 3: what determines, but I do know, like my mom and

300
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Speaker 3: dad this their whole story. Like, my mom was a

301
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Speaker 3: convert when she was thirteen years old. She was brought

302
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 3: in from somewhere else with her dad. Her dad was

303
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Speaker 3: a chemist in World War two, and he was like

304
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 3: he was an amazing, like very very intelligent person, and

305
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 3: he saw on the news about the amphibious people and

306
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 3: brought his family and joined the church or the cults

307
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,800
Speaker 3: or whatever. So my mom was like not raised in it,

308
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Speaker 3: like she didn't get born into it. And then my dad,

309
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 3: his mom left the church before he was even eighteen

310
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Speaker 3: years old, and so she took him and so like

311
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Speaker 3: my dad went back to the church and where the

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Speaker 3: cult or whatever however people call it, went back to

313
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Speaker 3: it when he was like eighteen, and then he my

314
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 3: mother were married like right like he was like twenty

315
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Speaker 3: one when they got married. So it was like they

316
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Speaker 3: were basically like kind of I mean, i'll like quote gentile.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, born and raised thing is so important.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's they have a sort of an outsider status

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Speaker 2: in the community.

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Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, my dad was born into it,

322
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Speaker 3: raised into it, and then when he was twelve and

323
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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty three raid happened then that he went with

324
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Speaker 3: his mom and then they went out, and a lot

325
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Speaker 3: of people think, you know, the raid happened, and then

326
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Speaker 3: it's over, and then it just you know, happened and

327
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Speaker 3: then but it took years for them to get back

328
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Speaker 3: to the community. But my his mom didn't really ever

329
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Speaker 3: want to go back, and she was kind of she

330
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Speaker 3: was she was actually labeled from the community as well.

331
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Speaker 3: And I didn't I didn't know any of that, but

332
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Speaker 3: until recently.

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Speaker 2: The nineteen fifty three braids. Can you just like a

334
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 2: brief overview of what those were.

335
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the nineteen fifty three graid was something that

336
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 4: happened on that the community by state officials.

337
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 3: They went and raided every home, took the children, and

338
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 3: they tried to take them from their mothers, much like

339
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 3: the two thousand and eight raid in Texas, but in

340
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty three, then the mothers refused, absolutely refuse to

341
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,720
Speaker 3: let the kids go without her. So they were loaded

342
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 3: onto buses together and the mothers went with their kids

343
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 3: and they basically just were taken into state custody. The

344
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,480
Speaker 3: mothers went with them. Everything was like and in nineteen

345
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 3: fifty three, there was no internet there was no anything.

346
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 3: The police and the government officials felt like or had

347
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 3: been told all these police officers had been told that

348
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 3: they were very very violent, dangerous people. And I'm not

349
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 3: sure exactly what caused the raid other than the polygamy.

350
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 3: I think polygamy is what they went into raid because

351
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 3: of it was illegal dad more than one wife and

352
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,199
Speaker 3: all that. So they went in with like expecting to

353
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,480
Speaker 3: have like a lot of like like a war zone.

354
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 3: They expected that there would be like a lot of

355
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 3: like firearms and like, you know, they were told that

356
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 3: they were very violent. Yeah, and when they got there,

357
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 3: nobody was armed and there was just moms with kids

358
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 3: and there was like you know, like boys that were

359
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 3: teenagers that were standing up for their mothers and it

360
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,159
Speaker 3: was just like quiet, and a lot of the police

361
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 3: police officers were really kind of taken back, Like you

362
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 3: can hear some of their stories or read them from

363
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 3: some of the officers where they were like what we

364
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 3: were kind of led to or whatever. But anyway, so

365
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 3: it took them a long time to actually get them

366
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 3: on the buses and then so that's what like in

367
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 3: their minds when they went in to do the raid,

368
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 3: they felt like it was going to be a really big,

369
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 3: bloody massacre, and it ended up there was nobody that

370
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,399
Speaker 3: was like, nobody was there. The worst they had was

371
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 3: that they believed that they were, you know, doing God's will,

372
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,399
Speaker 3: and those were all unlike my dad's ancestors, Like my

373
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 3: dad was twelve years old at that time, and yeah,

374
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 3: so and then, of course I told you already that

375
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 3: most when my mom, my mom's dad saw what was

376
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,360
Speaker 3: happening and went and joined their religion, I don't. Yeah,

377
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 3: so it was through that.

378
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 2: It's crazy that your dad was old enough to have

379
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 2: been a part of the raids. Your dad must be

380
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 2: significantly older than you.

381
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he actually passed away last year and he

382
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 3: was so was eighty two, and I might be mistaken

383
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,479
Speaker 3: he was eighty one or eighty two, so yeah, wow,

384
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: I am his youngest daughter, so that there is a

385
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 3: big age difference.

386
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 2: What was your expectation of your future when you were

387
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 2: a little girl, Because it actually sounds like your mom

388
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,240
Speaker 2: is sort of unique in this community because a lot

389
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: of the people I've spoken to this community, they don't

390
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: really engage with outside music at all. It's kind of

391
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 2: only like church music, and it's very insular in that way.

392
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 2: Was that unusual in the community.

393
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So my mom she was so open minded.

394
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 3: She so I'm referring to her as past tense because

395
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,640
Speaker 3: she passed away at twenty thirteen. So but with her

396
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 3: being there, I don't I know, there were other women

397
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 3: around the community who were open minded and stuff like that.

398
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 3: I'm not saying she was the only one, but there

399
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 3: were not very many people who had her like open

400
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 3: mindedness for and acceptance and her her like she had

401
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 3: this like disability to make you feel like you were

402
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 3: her favorite one. It didn't matter who you were, what

403
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 3: color your skin was, or what your sexuality was, or

404
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 3: what you believed in or didn't believe in, or you know,

405
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 3: religion didn't matter to her. All that stuff didn't matter

406
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 3: because that she believed that we were all, you know.

407
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 3: She she was a firm believer in Christ and that's

408
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 3: you know. So she believed that we were all God's

409
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 3: children and that we all deserved to be we were equal.

410
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 3: She she would say that, I remember growing up, she

411
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:14,479
Speaker 3: would say you, she would say, Jesus says, I love everyone,

412
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 3: and that doesn't mean everyone except for so and so

413
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: and so and so. I remember her saying those things,

414
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 3: and I remember even asking her questions, like, if Jesus

415
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 3: says love everyone, then why is it that I can't

416
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 3: associate with my friend at school?

417
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask, because my mom

418
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 1: is kind of similar, really similar, actually, So she loved

419
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: everybody and didn't judge them and never really talked about them.

420
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 1: But I was like, but them, why do I have

421
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 1: to dress like this and my friends get to dress normally?

422
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 2: You know?

423
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? She also like would like. I remember her telling

424
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 3: me the story of like and I don't even I'm

425
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 3: not going to tell you who it was because if

426
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 3: I do say your name, I'm pretty sure it'll be wrong.

427
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,640
Speaker 3: But it was ultimately a phrasing. It was ultimately when

428
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 3: somebody showed up to this dinner party where they were

429
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 3: to be honored and they they were going to be

430
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 3: given some sort of an award or something, and someone

431
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 3: came in who wasn't dressed properly for the event, and

432
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,199
Speaker 3: maybe it was them that wasn't dressed properly, I don't remember,

433
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 3: or they saw like someone was being treated terribly because

434
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 3: they weren't dressed, you know, anyway, and he took off

435
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 3: the coats and he put it on the chair and

436
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: he said eat coat, eat, And obviously we were honoring

437
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: the clothing, not the person or whatever. Anyway, my mom

438
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 3: would use that as an example as well, like are

439
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: you know, are the clothes would make us better than somebody?

440
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 3: Like you know, so when people we would we would

441
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 3: get side eyes from people. And and my mom would

442
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 3: wear very country clothing. She'd wear like she she would

443
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 3: skate on the edge of what they would call propriety,

444
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: you know, and there in the community. And she would

445
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: wear like like as much as she possibly could have been.

446
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: So she's wearing like the full length dresses and has

447
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 2: the braided hair, but like so like how would she

448
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 2: glitz it out?

449
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: Now? She would wear high heels that nobody nobody told

450
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 3: us we couldn't wear specific she and her favorite color

451
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 3: was red, but we were told we couldn't wear red.

452
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:24,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, so she would wear like right orange, and she

453
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 5: would wear and her clothing was like one of her

454
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: one of her biggest things was like she loves tailored clothing.

455
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 3: And so when when there was like the idea that

456
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 3: we all had to change our clothing, and how that

457
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: had to end up being like, you know, prints and

458
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 3: we had to wear shirt collars, and you had to

459
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: have your dress at a certain length. All these things

460
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: that she was like, sort she thought she was being

461
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: put into a straight back, but she didn't say it

462
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 3: out loud that she was just like okay. Then she

463
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 3: started designing clothing. It was like she couldn't wear the

464
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: bright colors, so she would make the clothing like speak differently,

465
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: so basically with the same her color of the cup,

466
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 3: but then she would have something very unique about the

467
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 3: dress that I think today's world, I think her designs.

468
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 3: In fact, she was a designer. She would kind of

469
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: make a joke about how she could make a dress

470
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: for a basketball because she figured out how to like

471
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: so in a way that with tailored, you know, and

472
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 3: she said, and the basketball would look fabulous.

473
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: I am obsessed with her.

474
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: I know she sounds iconic. Can you talk about that?

475
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: Because you're in a very controlled community where every element

476
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: of your life is very controlled, Yet you have this

477
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: mother and this family that's like encouraging open mindedness and

478
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: kind of thinking outside the box a little bit. Where

479
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: did you land, Like did you believe firmly in the

480
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: church or were you kind of rebellious in your heart,

481
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: Like where were you on that spectrum?

482
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: When I was like early teens, I went through my

483
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 3: like little like I don't know what kind of an

484
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: audience have it. I was like a little fit back then,

485
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: you know, like like I did as much as I

486
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 3: possibly could to get away with everything I possibly could.

487
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: And I that lasted to tell It was about like

488
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,479
Speaker 3: I think I was fourteen and then I remember just

489
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: like when I turned fifteen, I remember just being like,

490
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, like I was tired of getting in

491
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 3: trouble and you know, like I mean I didn't do

492
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 3: anything like get into drugs or alcohol or anything like that.

493
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 3: But for me an FLD as kid that would get

494
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 3: in the same car with boys, you know, and there

495
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: was boys and girls and we had cruise around the

496
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: town and you know, so that was that was like

497
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: the most evil thing. And I mean that that kind

498
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: of thing. I never into any sexual things or anything

499
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 3: like that. It was just just the fact that you

500
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: were associating with the boy.

501
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: The FLDS was though, did you have any friends outside

502
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: the community.

503
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 3: If no, like there were in school then I had

504
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: some friends that were like I couldn't associate with outside

505
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: the school. But it was like I don't know I

506
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: and I'm going to go back to my mom because

507
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: her best friends at the time that there was like

508
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: a big they called it, A lot of people call

509
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: it the split in the town. But there was like

510
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 3: a big like division of like who they could decide

511
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 3: who was the leader, and so between the two then

512
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: there was the one section that followed one side went

513
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: and followed him over and they kind of moved close

514
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: by the town, and then the other part of the

515
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 3: town just stayed, which was the part that I stayed in,

516
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: and it was like the church, like you know, the

517
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: right one or whatever. And so just this division caused

518
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 3: like like families like were kind of torn apart because

519
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 3: of that. And my mom, her best friends went with

520
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: this other section of you know, the people that moved

521
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: a little ways away off the town, and so it

522
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: was very hard for her to have friends. So when

523
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 3: when you know me growing up, like her best friend

524
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: was married to like one of the men who are

525
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: like the leaders in that other part of the church,

526
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: you know, and so we we knew, like I mean,

527
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: in my it didn't happen in my lifetime, so I

528
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: don't have memories of this, but she like talked about

529
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: her best friend like they were her she was the

530
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: best friend in all the world. And so she had

531
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: hardly any friends because of this division that happened, and

532
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: because of that, she like she just didn't feel like

533
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 3: that there was it was right to just stop associating.

534
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 3: And she didn't feel like that it was like that

535
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 3: if there was going to be anybody that was like

536
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: too good for anybody, if it wouldn't be her that

537
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 3: was too good for somebody. So she continued to associate

538
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: with people, but she didn't just like go hang out

539
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: and party, you know, like, but she just didn't stop associating.

540
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: So when when I was growing up and I would

541
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: see like there would be people that actually write to

542
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: my mom right in public, like I'm would be stopped

543
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: and talking to somebody that was like from the other

544
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 3: you know, like what we called apostates at the time.

545
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: She she didn't give a crap, Like I said, she

546
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: didn't care who what you believed in the just you know,

547
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: we were. She just felt like we were all, you know, humans,

548
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: and we are all leading the same red color, you know,

549
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 3: and it just is so like it was ridiculous to

550
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: her to have to like ostracize somebody because of their

551
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: beliefs anyway, and so she continued to like have friends,

552
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: and so she would get literally like right to her face,

553
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 3: get told like you know how people were so disgusted

554
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 3: with her, and she's like right in the middle of

555
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 3: talking to somebody. And I remember seeing that as a kid.

556
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 3: I remember being like, wonder when those guys are so

557
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 3: And then Mom would be like, well, she'd say stuff

558
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 3: like my butts doesn't fit in that doesn't or my

559
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: butts to remember, my butt doesn't fit in the judgment

560
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 3: seat or something like that. So she'd just like be like,

561
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 3: who's who the hell's the judge here? You know, Like

562
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: so she and she, like I said, she was like

563
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: a firm believer in Jesus and stuff, so she would

564
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: she would talk about that, and she also like didn't

565
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: believe in like there shouldn't be like categories of who's

566
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: better than who.

567
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm shocked, she stayed, Yeah, I'm shock she stayed.

568
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: And But also it makes total sense hearing this why

569
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: your family was considered lower status in the community because

570
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: typically the more obedient you are, the higher status you are,

571
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: and the more you know rewards you get be a

572
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: house or money or wives or whatever.

573
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: I have a question about you growing up with her

574
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: because she had Okay, so she was the only wife.

575
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: So when you were growing up, you seem like the

576
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: kind of girl that I was when I was little,

577
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: just like fantasizing about your husband and your future and

578
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: your soulmate.

579
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't.

580
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 2: I'm so I didn't know you. I didn't know you

581
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: had that.

582
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: Oh I was like not in the church necessarily, yah,

583
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: but like I was, woy crazy, I have a soul

584
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: may oh interesting.

585
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 3: I mean, like very romantic stuff, but not not them.

586
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't want to get married, like right,

587
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: I did, not having.

588
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: Kids, so plural marriage was not something that you like.

589
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: Day dreamed about. Okay, you wanted to be a musician,

590
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: that's what you day dreamed about.

591
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: That's right.

592
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: Actually who I was?

593
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, my mom had a record player and I

594
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: remember this like I was. It was taller than I was.

595
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 3: It was this little girl, and I remember, like you know,

596
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: there was like record players, tate players and like TV

597
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: players and all this stuff around with this one record

598
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: player that stood in the living room that was like

599
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: taller than me. And I remember taking out like the

600
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: album had she had a Barbistrising album. So she had

601
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: albums from like all these worldly Yeah.

602
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: So she had like I was gonna ask, you're not

603
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: supposed to have outside music. Your mom's doing that.

604
00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

605
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: And she she was a jazz lover. She had like jazz.

606
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: I knew who Mary and McPartland was because my mom's

607
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: music tastes were like from classical to jazz to like

608
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: rock and roll, and so I knew. I knew about

609
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: the Beatles, and I knew about like you know, I said,

610
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: Kenny Rodgers and Neil Diamond and of course Barber Strisan

611
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: was like my mom's like favorite.

612
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: Would you ever have kids over and just blow their mind?

613
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: Like kid, yeah, and just like put on a record

614
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: and be like here it is.

615
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: I remember I had a CD that I remember them

616
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: coming in the house. There was a few of my

617
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 3: friends come in the house and I'm gonna show them

618
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: a song and I put the CD and and they're like,

619
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: your parents are going to I'm like, this is my

620
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: mom's CD. Dude.

621
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: Like, in terms of your belief in the religion itself,

622
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: you said there was a period where you were rebelling,

623
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: but then you kind of came back to it, Is

624
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: that right?

625
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah? So so I never ever stopped going to church,

626
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: and I never stopped, you know, doing everything I'm supposed

627
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 3: to do, except that i'd be cruising around with boys,

628
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh, it's terrible, but I but at

629
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: one point, I just remember like getting tired of everybody

630
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: caddling on me and like, and the thing was, like

631
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: my mom, she didn't care if I had friends that

632
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: were boys. She just didn't want me to sneak around

633
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: with them, because if she knew that I was sitting

634
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: right there on the front porch or inside the house

635
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 3: in the living room, right where she was at and

636
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: we're all patting, then everything's fine. And she didn't even

637
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: care if a boy like out came out right out

638
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: in front of her and been like, oh, I'm totally

639
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: in love with her, she'd be like cool. So it

640
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: was you know, everybody, everybody didn't mind boy, you know,

641
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: and then you know, make jokes like that, and she

642
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: was everything was fine, except if I started sneaking around.

643
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: She was like, okay, so if you're sneaking around, something's wrong.

644
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: And she didn't want me, you know, getting involved with

645
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: somebody and without me being married to him, and it

646
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: was just part of religion, you know. And of course

647
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: I didn't get with anybody before I was married. I

648
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: mean kiss, I did kiss a boy, but it was

649
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: like there was that was it. It was nothing beyond that.

650
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 3: So but she was like, I just got so tired

651
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 3: of my dad like constantly being like, oh, like what

652
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 3: did what did you do now kind of thing, you know.

653
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 3: And it was all a matter of like I remember

654
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: going for walks down Main Street and a boy would

655
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: pull up in his truck and we cat and it

656
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: wasn't even about like anything besides just the fact that

657
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: you're chatting with a boy in main street and publicly

658
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: that people are driving by. And I remember like knowing,

659
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: oh my goodness. I one time I walked into my

660
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: house and I'm almost there and I'm like, hey, just

661
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: so you know, someone was gonna call you because she

662
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: saw me talking to so and so She's like, oh okay,

663
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: and then the phone rings and she picks up Hello

664
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: and she's like, oh, yeah, okay, Well appreciate you selling me.

665
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: Hangs up, turns around. I'm like, oh, you know, as you.

666
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: Were talking to a boy. Because the culture of the

667
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: community is that marriage are essentially arranged or if you

668
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: want to marry someone, it has to be approved by

669
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: the prophet right frequently that would be young women or

670
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: girls too much older men, Like it's not necessarily like

671
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: a traditional like we date someone our own age and

672
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: then choose our partner. You write like, was is that accurate?

673
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, no one dated and in my lifetime, no

674
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: one dated. No one was using their partners. In fact,

675
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: if a girl did go in and say this is

676
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: who I want to marry or whatever, it may or

677
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: may not have been like like one one girl I

678
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 3: know for a fact, like firsthand experience with them telling

679
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: me about this. This girl asked for this boy's handed

680
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: marriage you know, through the prophet, and he like called

681
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: this boy on the carpet, like as if they'd been

682
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: doing stuff. He called them in and was like what

683
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: have you done with her? Like are you trying to

684
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: seduce her? You know this? And the boy was like,

685
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: I literally have only ever seen her at dances where

686
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 3: dances are very specific and you're real you know certain

687
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: things like you're allowed to choose a partner and then

688
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 3: you can dance. That was that was the ultimate. That

689
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: was the only thing allowed and it was right under

690
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: the eye of the leeting brethren, nothing else, like your

691
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: parents are there. It's a church approw function and then

692
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 3: you go home like you know, and he and he

693
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 3: explained that I danced with her and I never and

694
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: so like I've never had anything to do with her.

695
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 3: We don't have anything outside the church's you know, like

696
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: back and forth messages or anything like that, and the

697
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: and so like Warren and you know, they basically were

698
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 3: like okay, like that, you know, after they did some

699
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: investigation and then they found out that it was true,

700
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 3: and then he ended up allowing the two to get

701
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 3: married and they did the whole merriage and everything. So

702
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: so I thought it was kind of unique. But basically

703
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: I've also had other people tell me that they went

704
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 3: in and asked if they could married to somebody and

705
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: they were like no, like you belong at this instead

706
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: or whatever, and then they got married to the other

707
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 3: person that they were both to marry.

708
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: They're just as signing people as the prophecies fit or whatever.

709
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: Basically right, and you know, his taste is highly problematic.

710
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: Can you say why, because I'm trying to remember what

711
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 1: I know about this Switchisian and it's usually because he's

712
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: saying this eighteen year old belongs with this older man.

713
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, or this fifteen year old, yeah, I use

714
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: eight or just like someone that they don't like or

715
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: think is gross. It's because it's really not about what

716
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: the girl wants. I mean, I'm never clear on like

717
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: what is motivating those decisions. It's it's such an interesting dynamic.

718
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: If you're like the lead profit and you have a

719
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: bunch of wives and you want to get all the

720
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 2: like ones you think are hot for yourself, Like how

721
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 2: you determine who to gift wives to and who goes

722
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: to who? Like is that based on like who seems

723
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 2: loyal and who they want? Like, Yeah, I've never I've

724
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: never been totally clear.

725
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: Who's making the most money? Does money matter in this world?

726
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? I feel I feel like that this is something

727
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: that I observed as I noticed that the men who

728
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: were like making a lot more money and they had

729
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 3: the ability or whatever to take care of more addition

730
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: to their family or whatever than those men a lot

731
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: of times were like basically kind of like you know

732
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: other churches I've heard of where they have to have

733
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: a certain amount of income in order to be a

734
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: certain status and I mean, I feel like it kind

735
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: of is that way. And even though I am I'm

736
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: just speaking from my own observation. There were men who

737
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: had a lot of a lot more income than other men.

738
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: And I think that the men who had a lot

739
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: more income were I don't know, I feel like they

740
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: had a lot more say kind of it's more like

741
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: what I observed as a young person growing up. But

742
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 3: I just remember seeing that there was like wealthier families

743
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: had bigger families, like more wives.

744
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: I have seen that. I mean, I feel like i've

745
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: I've heard that quite a bit. The more sort of

746
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: wealth they bring into the community, there is like a

747
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: class divide. It seems like, at least historically there has been.

748
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 2: I think there probably still is within the FLDS, where

749
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: people who have more many money, specifically men who have

750
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: more money because men are the ones working, are like

751
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: rewarded with just more in general, more status, more wives,

752
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: more whatever. It also makes sense if your dad was

753
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: working class and how he would be treated slightly differently.

754
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: I want to know, like, if education is not like

755
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: a huge priority for the girls in the community and

756
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: outside of your mom, were you given the messaging that

757
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 2: like my duty in life is to be a wife,

758
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: to be a mother, to bear children. How did you

759
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 2: kind of see that future for yourself?

760
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: So I remember when I, like I was saying, I was,

761
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 3: I was four years old. I kind of started on

762
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 3: IO on this subject, and I remember like looking at

763
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 3: the record and there was pictures that's on the record

764
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: case of Barbara Streisand and she was singing in Central

765
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: Park and it was called a Happening in Central Park

766
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: and her beautiful dress and how there was like all

767
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: these people. I remember just playing like I was standing

768
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: on stage in Central Park because that's who I am.

769
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: And I could see my reflection in the glossiness on

770
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: my mom's upright grand and I remember just like that

771
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 3: that was me, and I'm Barber Streisand standing on stage.

772
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 3: But I was marginie, I'm standing on stage and I'm

773
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: singing for all these people and a pat Central Park,

774
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: you know. And that was my vision of my life.

775
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 3: That was me growing up. That is what I pretended

776
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 3: to be as a performer. I wanted to share my

777
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: music with the world. And whenever I got like when

778
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 3: I was eight years old, when I started writing music,

779
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: I would hear something that was so incredible that that's

780
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: I wanted to share it with the whole world, so

781
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: that I was like my my whole vision. And so

782
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 3: my idea was not about like getting married and getting

783
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: to becoming a mom and a sister wife and all

784
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 3: that until I was told at fifteen, I was told

785
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: that I was going to be getting married, and I

786
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: just I just remember knowing that that was there wasn't

787
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 3: really much I could do about it. And so it

788
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: wasn't that I gave up my dream. It was that

789
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: I just it was almost as if I put it

790
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: in the back of my closet, like a dress that

791
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: I wanted to fit into someday, and I just remember,

792
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 3: just like, you know, every time I would catch myself

793
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: like looking at this beautiful dress that I was going

794
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: to fit in someday, you know, in metaphorical dress that

795
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 3: I just remember just feeling like it wasn't something that

796
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: was far too far away. And yet I didn't. I

797
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 3: never thought, you know, like that it was hopeless for

798
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: me until when I did get married, and that that day,

799
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 3: I my memory of that day is of me like

800
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: getting in my mind it was a funeral. It was

801
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: it was my funeral, and I just it was as

802
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: if I had laid myself to rest, but I don't

803
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: have Like it wasn't ever like about, Okay, you need

804
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: to go to college, you need to have a degree

805
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: in music, you know. It was like my mom just

806
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: gave me every day. She was my teacher. She was

807
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 3: my voice teacher, my pianel teacher, my songwriting teacher, and

808
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: all my life growing up. She never told me, oh,

809
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: you're going to have to have these skills in order

810
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 3: to be a good mom. It was more like, oh,

811
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: what are we today? Today? You're doing this song and today.

812
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 3: It wasn't like I was a sign either. It was

813
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 3: more like I started playing the pianel, so it was like, oh,

814
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: we're working on Alagania today. Cool, you know, like that's

815
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: and then my mom would just like as she was

816
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 3: doing her housekeeping up, she would dust her clients, so

817
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: she'd be like crocheting her daily and she'd like, oh,

818
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: she'll be teaching me piane lessons, her singing lessons. Like

819
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: that's what I got. That was my life and my mom.

820
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: I remember one day then, right before I was married,

821
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: I was sixteen years old. She came in and this

822
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 3: was like I knew. I knew at that time, like

823
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: my dad, I knew I was going to be getting

824
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: married too. And she came in and she said, oh,

825
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: my goodness, you know what. It just dawned on me

826
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 3: and I said, look, and she said, I don't think

827
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: I've ever taught you how to press a shirt. And

828
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 3: I was like, why would you need to? Like, that's

829
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: probably something you're going to because you can cook, and

830
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: you can sing, and you can write music and you

831
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: can and you're amazing and I could sew. She taught

832
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: me to sew. She never taught me how to press

833
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 3: a man's shirt, and that was something she was like,

834
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: she thought it was kind of funny and it was

835
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: kind of but she did. She taught me at that

836
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 3: time how to press a mad shirt and she was like,

837
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 3: I that was kind of the skill that she is,

838
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: you know. Everything else, she felt like I pretty much

839
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: had down pat and like like how to deal with

840
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: kids and stuff like that was just something that was

841
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: kind of I was tending children. My nieces and nephews

842
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 3: were all around me all the time, and so it

843
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 3: was never like a foreign thing. They had like big

844
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 3: families and stuff, but just things like you know, like

845
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 3: that was something she was like, oh, crap, like I

846
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 3: got to teach you something like anyway, And I got

847
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 3: married within a few months after that, so I had

848
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 3: turned seventeen when I got married. But I remember this

849
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 3: that time very well and just feeling like I remember

850
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 3: even when she said, I remember just knowing like there

851
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 3: was like this my in my memory. It was as

852
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: if I was closing the book of a lifetime. Like

853
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I remember. It was like you know,

854
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: you know the antennas that you feel when you know

855
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 3: you're never going to see somebody again. It was like that,

856
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 3: only it was about me. It was my story, myself,

857
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 3: and I just felt like that it was like the end,

858
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: and I could feel it coming to that end. I

859
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 3: could feel the whole thing happening, and it was like

860
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 3: part of me was like, oh, I was supposed to

861
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 3: be happy and excited about it. I got to make

862
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: sure I'm excited and happy about it. But it's like

863
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: on the inside, it was like just like a female.

864
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 3: Like I said before, it was like getting a diagnosis

865
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 3: that you were you only have a few months left

866
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: and that's you know, and it kind of stargey in

867
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 3: the face knowing that you'll never ever ever have that

868
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: family again, You'll never be that person again.

869
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you once you're married, that's in the FLSs.

870
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: That's your job beare children, raise the children, staying the home.

871
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: You're not going out and pursuing your dreams.

872
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: That's not a thing.

873
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, you're given that. It makes sense that

874
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: that would feel like a death sentence, and that's so sad,

875
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,479
Speaker 2: especially so young. I mean, can you talk a little

876
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: bit about was it Warren who decided who your husband was.

877
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: Going to be? I actually don't know the details about

878
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: how it happened, because, like I said, really was still alive,

879
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 3: but I don't know how it happened. And I married.

880
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 3: I married my one of my older sister's husbands, so

881
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: I was her sister wife. So I was number two.

882
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 3: And then within the time I was married to that

883
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 3: same person, then he got another wife, so there were

884
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: three total while we were married to him.

885
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: What was that like? Can you talk about having sister

886
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: wives as and being I mean you're so young, Like

887
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 2: were the other wives young as well?

888
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, well, my older sister, I think she got

889
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: married when she was like in her thirty twenties. But

890
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: the third wife got married and she was nineteen so

891
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: she was older than me.

892
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: And when I hold was the husband.

893
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 3: And when I got married to him, he was I

894
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: think he was thirty years old, but I'm not sure.

895
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 3: And you were seventeen, yeah, and I just turned seventeen,

896
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: and I or I was halfway through my seventeenth year. Yeah.

897
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 3: And then when he got the third wife, I think

898
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 3: I had turned I think I was twenty one, I

899
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 3: think in this Yeah, I think I was twenty one

900
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: when she got married and she was nineteen.

901
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: Did you feel like was was there ever an inkling

902
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: in your head that you could like run away or

903
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 2: like not do it because your spirit was so rebellious,

904
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: Like what did you did?

905
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: You think?

906
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: You just there's just no choice, no other option.

907
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: So I did an album when I turned eighteen and

908
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: for him, like as a gift, where I sang and

909
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: I did all the arrange of the songs and I

910
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: did the backup score on and I worked in the

911
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 3: studio and everything. And then so my head was kind

912
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: of kept in like moving forward, and I was also

913
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 3: teaching pianelists and everything. And then when I when I

914
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: was turning twenty one, then I during my twentieth year,

915
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 3: I was I worked on an album that I wrote

916
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: for my mom and I called it for twenty one

917
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 3: years and I was giving it to my mom. And

918
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: during that time, during working on that album, then I

919
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: had like this like insane like a man from the

920
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: community told me that he had never thought about leaving

921
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: and here I was married at the time, but he

922
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: told me he never thought about leaving it until he

923
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: decided like if I wanted to leave with him, that

924
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: he would leave. And I remember that getting the idea

925
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: that somebody would take me and me and I was

926
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 3: like like it was kind of presented and it kind

927
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 3: of made me afraid because I thought if I leave

928
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: right now, and I knew I could pursue music because

929
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: I was in the middle of making it out, but

930
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: I knew that I could probably make a living off

931
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 3: of it, and you know, so my head was kind

932
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: of like whoa, maybe, you know, like is this a possibility?

933
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 3: Like could I actually leave my husband at the time,

934
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 3: and I could leave my sister wife and I could

935
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: like leave my leave like you. I mean, she had

936
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: kids that I was like being the mom of as well.

937
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: But I like that whole thing presented to me like

938
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 3: that was like like I can't because I was afraid.

939
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: There was this thing in my head that I believed

940
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 3: that I would die the second death if I left

941
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: my preested head. And so that was like what kind

942
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 3: of like kept me like, Nope, I can't do it.

943
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: I can't run away, I can't leave this, you know.

944
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 3: I felt like, you know, I've been like my whole life,

945
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: like this idea of being loyal and like being faithful

946
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: and being like you know, all of that was just

947
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: very important and so and the more that I lived it,

948
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 3: and like even after like I got separate, I got

949
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 3: what's called released from my first husband, and I became

950
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: like a single mom, and I was writing music for

951
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 3: the church and all of that, I still never thought

952
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 3: like even I was sent away with my first husband,

953
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 3: like we were send out of the church, and I

954
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 3: never stopped like I was gone for ten months out

955
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 3: of the church, out of the you know, the FLDS,

956
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: and I never stopped like wanting to just be back there.

957
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: Because I was worried about like my kids growing up

958
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 3: in the world and like me dying the second death

959
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: because I was a terrible mom or something like that,

960
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: you know, like a lot of fear and that that

961
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: is ultimately what kind of ran my life from the

962
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 3: time I got married as a teenager. That is what

963
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 3: began running my life was like because like I said,

964
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: growing up in my house, I feel like I was

965
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: so lucky in the parent category and I was so

966
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: lucky with like being able to like live how I lived.

967
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 3: And I knew when I got married it was the

968
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: end of that. And I just knew there was one

969
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: thing to be and it was the way I was

970
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 3: told to be. So that's what I kind of became

971
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 3: the curve, this this shell of this person had to

972
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 3: be whatever she was told and so like that whole

973
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 3: and I'm not I don't want to come out come

974
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 3: off of sounding like a victim of some sort. And

975
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: that's definitely if I was, I was going to say

976
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: that there was something I wanted to make sure of,

977
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: is that I don't want to come out to come

978
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 3: off like with the idea that I felt like I

979
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: was a victim. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm

980
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: saying like it was like the experience that I lived,

981
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 3: and it was just ultimately that's that's just that was

982
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 3: what my mindset was. And being afraid of, you know, whatever,

983
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: like I was invited back after ten months of being

984
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 3: sent away, and then I began writing music for the church,

985
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: and like I was basically like that the family I

986
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 3: had gotten married too, Like the third wife was taken

987
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 3: away from me. He went, she went back and lived

988
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 3: with her dad. First wife had left the church. So

989
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 3: my big sister had already made it, she had already

990
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 3: left she want to be a part of it. And

991
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 3: then I just was like I don't want to live

992
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 3: I didn't want to live with him. I was. I

993
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 3: felt like that. That was like when I got told

994
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 3: that I was no longer married him, I was. It

995
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 3: was one of the biggest, like years long we leave

996
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: and I was only married to him for four years?

997
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was he like? What did you? How did

998
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: you feel about him?

999
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: I could not. I it's very difficult to talk about

1000
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: this part because I blocked it out of my mind

1001
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 3: so much of being married to him that I just

1002
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: I had to like learn to I don't know, there's

1003
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 3: like a difficult to answer this question because I went

1004
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,439
Speaker 3: through like like two years ago. Yeah, I am telling

1005
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: you how wonderful my mom was now amazing, she was

1006
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 3: about everything so open minded. Like two years ago, I

1007
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: had a situation where I had blocked out memories of

1008
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: being married. I had blocked it all out, being I

1009
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: didn't have any I completely let it go. I didn't

1010
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 3: want anything to do with it. And then there was

1011
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: this thing that came and it made me, it made

1012
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 3: these memories like it was like and now I understand

1013
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: what it is because I a doctor actually explained to

1014
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 3: me what happened. But it was where I had a

1015
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 3: flashblack hallucination like people around me were real and everything.

1016
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 3: And in that flashback hallucination of my marriage the day

1017
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 3: I was married, my mom's like, my mom, this is

1018
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 3: a hallucination. So this is just was like she wasn't

1019
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 3: physically there, but this is two years ago, and I'm

1020
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 3: I just I was so angry at her for not

1021
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: standing up for me, and so that whole scene, like

1022
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: that whole thing, I just felt like I was so like,

1023
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 3: why you. I was a child, I could have she

1024
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: could have I wasn't eighteen years old. She could have

1025
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 3: stood up for me. So I was very angry at

1026
00:50:58,600 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 3: her and I felt like she could have done better

1027
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: for me. And now, like the problem was that even

1028
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 3: even when I finally when I found out about the

1029
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: church twenty seventeen when I kind of started kind of

1030
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: started waking up in me, like what's going on? Like

1031
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 3: what happened be Is? But up until then I was like,

1032
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't listen to anything about Warren. I wouldn't listen

1033
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: to anything about the church because I just was pulled

1034
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 3: to stay away from it. In twenty seventeen, I started

1035
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 3: like caring stuff, And in twenty eighteen, I was like bam,

1036
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: like and I learned how much it was actually worn

1037
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen that I learned how much like what had

1038
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: happened with Warren?

1039
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 1: Where were you learning that from?

1040
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 3: Because I had gotten send away again for a second time,

1041
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 3: and I was and this time I was married to

1042
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 3: another man from the FLIS who is still all is

1043
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 3: the FLIS. But I like, I started associating with people

1044
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: like my mom passed away in twenty thirteen, and it

1045
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: kind of brought her kids that are outside the church

1046
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 3: and her kids that were in the church, so kind

1047
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: of brought them together. And then I had been sent

1048
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: away by then, and so I was living just silently

1049
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 3: in my own little world like I was told to.

1050
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 3: And then every once in a while I would see

1051
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 3: one of my siblings that were outside the church and

1052
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 3: they would say stuff like, oh, you heard about Warren.

1053
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 3: Do you hear about's going on? And I'd be like,

1054
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 3: you know, I don't, don't don't tell me, please don't.

1055
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: And so just little things like every once in a

1056
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: while somebody would talk in my hearing and I'd be like,

1057
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 3: no way, it.

1058
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: Sounds like there was just like a bunch of little

1059
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: seeds were planted in you. Even there's the guy being like,

1060
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: we could run away. Just it's a little seed.

1061
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: Right right. And it was interesting too because it was

1062
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: when my mom died, that my brother and she's now

1063
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 3: the ex wife of my brother, but she is still

1064
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 3: part of my family and five they're still friends and

1065
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 3: they're still like, like I still claim her as my sister.

1066
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: But she said to me, and she's she's today and

1067
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: the mayor of Hill Hill. She told me one day,

1068
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: she said, it just is rather bizarre that we were

1069
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: told a meeting that if we see anything about Warren

1070
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 3: or she called them Uncle Warren at the time, or

1071
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: Lyle or anybody out that is part of the stuff

1072
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: that's going on, if we see anything on the newspapers

1073
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: or the internet or anything that we would lose our testimony.

1074
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: How how does that happen? How can you lose the

1075
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 3: testimony because you saw something? Because if it's true, how

1076
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 3: could you not How could you lose your testimony over something?

1077
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 3: Why would something being told to you make you lose

1078
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 3: your testimony? Yeah, like yeah, So I was just kind

1079
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: of like, man, she just must be like I don't know,

1080
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 3: Like I didn't know what to think of her, because

1081
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, my goodness, it's a very valid question,

1082
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: but it was still a question to not be asking questions,

1083
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 3: you know. Like so in my head I was like, boy,

1084
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 3: I don't I have no answer for that, you know.

1085
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 3: And but since then, like and she actually used this

1086
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: kind of a like kind of a metaphor, kind of

1087
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: an example. She said, when you are told to stay

1088
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 3: to keep inside the house and keep all the windows

1089
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 3: boarded jet and that there's no such thing as a sun,

1090
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 3: and you open up the blinds or you open up

1091
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,479
Speaker 3: the covering over the window, and you see that there's

1092
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 3: a sun, and you say, oh, my goodness, I think

1093
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: there's a son. You lost your testimony that there was

1094
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 3: no sun because you were told this whole time that

1095
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 3: there was no sun. And then you see the sun,

1096
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: and you will no longer believe that there is no sun,

1097
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 3: and now you have lost your testimony. And she said,

1098
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 3: how can you lose your testimony if there is actually

1099
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 3: no sun? Right, couldn't because when you look out, then

1100
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 3: you would know for a fact that you were not

1101
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 3: lied to. Why can we not look outside the home

1102
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 3: if there's no sun unless we're being lied to? And

1103
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 3: I remember being like, oh, oh my goodness. You can't

1104
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: ask those questions because like it's just it's too scary,

1105
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 3: and you will, like when your mind starts to think

1106
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 3: about things, and I say this about everything I think.

1107
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 3: And I had a friend, a very close friend to me,

1108
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 3: tell me that that they were at they took a

1109
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 3: psychology course in college and they were asked like they can,

1110
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 3: asking all these questions and asking all these questions, and

1111
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: finally the professor was like, where have you come from?

1112
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 3: Like people don't usually ask all these questions. And he

1113
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I I feel like you know, He's

1114
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: like you're from somewhere and I want to know. And

1115
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 3: so he said, yeah, I was born and raised it

1116
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: to the FLDS like you know, you know, and it

1117
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 3: makes your psychology like you you either you either learn

1118
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 3: and you grow or you know, like, I mean, you're

1119
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 3: always learn and you always grow. But he just said, yeah,

1120
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 3: I feel like everybody should have been born as a cult.

1121
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 3: And then you're all like, then you would never cussed

1122
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 3: in anything. I mean, I mean, then you would question everything.

1123
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: That's what I meant.

1124
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because once you because once you learn that information

1125
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: is actually powerful and important and we need to be

1126
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: like seeking it out instead of closing our eyes and

1127
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 2: pretending it isn't there. Once then you then you apply

1128
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: that everywhere. Then you're like, well, I want I want

1129
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 2: to see the truth. If if what.

1130
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 1: About the blue pelt?

1131
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: I don't remember it. I referenced this last week to

1132
00:55:58,680 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: the matrix.

1133
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, well you wake up and you're like, okay.

1134
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think one of the biggest

1135
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: gifts of religion, and what I appreciated about it is

1136
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: that it gives you permission to stop thinking. And I

1137
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: love not thinking because I have anxiety and I don't

1138
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: and I want the answers to things that aren't there.

1139
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: So just to just cut off your thinking and be

1140
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: like God has a plan. It's like it's easier, it's comfortable, yummy,

1141
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: But it. Let's yeah, atrocities occur, so unfortunately we all

1142
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: have to think for ourselves.

1143
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a powerful metaphor and story.

1144
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 3: Sorry, go on, Oh, I was just saying, you know,

1145
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: that's that was something that my mom always championed to

1146
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: with people who think for themselves, people who like Likeeole,

1147
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 3: who have a voice in there, like and like I said,

1148
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 3: she was labeled, and she was labeled to read various

1149
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 3: women actually, And I've been told even since she passed

1150
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 3: away that you know, it's your mother's fault that your

1151
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 3: father was sent away my mom and my dad were

1152
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 3: both send it at one time, and that my mom

1153
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 3: wasn'tvited back to the community. But I was told directly

1154
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: like it's your mother's fault. If it wasn't that your

1155
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 3: mother was the woman she was, your father wouldn't have

1156
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 3: been sent away. And I remember just being like like,

1157
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 3: that's I mean. When I was told that she had

1158
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: passed away, I remember feeling like somebody like like it

1159
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 3: was hurtful to me. I felt like I was heard

1160
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 3: from what they said, because I felt like, you know,

1161
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 3: my mom was just she was an angel, and I

1162
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 3: feel like she is to the day and even through

1163
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 3: my anger, Like I did feel angry at her after

1164
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 3: I started, like after that whole thing happened with the

1165
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: hallucination and everything and all those memories came to me

1166
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 3: and all that happening, and it was like it was

1167
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: I went through days of like, oh my goodness, that's

1168
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 3: a whole story on its own too, but just just

1169
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 3: all that, like I'm coming, like I feel like in

1170
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: two years since, because it's been two years now, because

1171
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 3: it was twenty twenty one, on Thanksgiving Day of twenty

1172
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 3: twenty one that that hallucination flashback happened because something triggered

1173
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 3: it and I had no idea what trigger even meant

1174
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 3: until that day and then I mean, it's never happened

1175
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 3: since stuff like that, Nothing like that had ever happened

1176
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 3: before or since. Like something that didn't just like like

1177
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 3: through me so hard. I was not expecting the hallucination.

1178
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 3: I wasn't, but in my in this hallucination, I stood

1179
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 3: up against every person in my life, everybody there you know,

1180
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: here came walking in the man that I was supposed

1181
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: to marry, and I was like no, no, and I

1182
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 3: was like yelling like no, and then like my mom

1183
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 3: stepped up and she was telling me, like, you have

1184
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 3: to do this, you have to do what you're told,

1185
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 3: and I'm like, literally, I in my hallucination, I yelled

1186
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 3: and you fuck off, and I yelled out loud. I

1187
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 3: was like yelling out loud, and I remember just like

1188
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: I was so thrown that I was not expecting what

1189
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 3: happened during that holliesination. I did not expect any of that.

1190
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 3: I've never had anything like that happened to me before,

1191
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 3: so and then having all of that happen, and then

1192
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 3: I've gone through a lot of like a lot of

1193
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 3: different like I've gone through therapies and I'll start stuff

1194
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 3: to just like and I'm learning who I truly am

1195
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: learning about the freedom that I have and how powerful

1196
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: my mind is and everything. And here I am that

1197
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: right now I have no anger towards my mom at all.

1198
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 3: But I still at this time like from what I've learned,

1199
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: I feel like that because of what I've gone through,

1200
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 3: I would never ever send sit by and just watch

1201
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 3: a child go through anything like that. I would And

1202
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: from like all in all my experiences with my kids

1203
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 3: and everything, the thing that I think I've gotten into

1204
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 3: trouble the very most over in my marriage, like even

1205
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: my second marriage was that I stood up for my kids.

1206
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 3: I stood up and I said, no, that's I'm not

1207
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 3: going to sit here and watch them get punished for

1208
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 3: something I didn't do, or to see something that I question,

1209
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to sit back and say, oh,

1210
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 3: I wonder if it's okay. No it's not, because if

1211
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 3: I feel something's wrong, I'm not going to sit and

1212
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 3: wait to see if it's wrong and see if the

1213
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 3: kids get hurt from it, because I'll and I'm not

1214
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: saying my mom was a bad person for doing that,

1215
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 3: because she knowing the way that I was raised, knowing

1216
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 3: like the stuff that was being taught at church. Had

1217
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 3: she actually stood up for me, if she had actually

1218
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 3: been like, no, she is not old enough to make

1219
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 3: this decision. I am her mom and she is not

1220
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 3: getting married, I probably would have been like, how dare you?

1221
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 3: How dare you stand in my way of you know,

1222
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 3: doing what the prophet wants, because at the time that's

1223
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 3: what I believed would write. Otherwise I would not. I

1224
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 3: probably would have told her mom, I don't want to

1225
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: do this, and I just I remember when I did.

1226
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 3: The day I found out I was getting married, he

1227
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 3: the man I was supposed to marry proposed to me,

1228
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: so I didn't know I was getting married that day.

1229
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 3: I just came in and he asked me to marry him,

1230
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 3: and I was like what the hell? And I didn't

1231
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 3: even say yes because I was like, uh, let's see

1232
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 3: what do I have when I need? I don't have

1233
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 3: a wedding dress. And I know, like the day you

1234
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 3: find out you're getting married, the day you get married,

1235
01:00:58,880 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: it's not like you get a plan.

1236
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 2: Oh wow, really why, oh my god, it's just like surprise,

1237
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: you're getting married today?

1238
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah? No. Then some of my friends went to

1239
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 3: see Rule and Jeffs or more in Jeffs and they

1240
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: didn't come back until like they got back with their husband.

1241
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 3: Like that's that was it awful?

1242
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god. You don't even time to emotionally prepare

1243
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 2: to be in the marriage. I don't want to be in.

1244
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: That's because it must because they don't want you to

1245
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: think about it.

1246
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah right, if they just like hit you with it,

1247
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: then there's nothing.

1248
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: You're just done. Yeah, you're in chuck damn.

1249
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: And it's like it's a constant like schooling, you know,

1250
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 3: like there's a constant every day, like all the time.

1251
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 3: The teachings that we were getting and everything is it's

1252
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 3: not like one day, hey, you're gonna get married. It's

1253
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 3: more like every day you hear about the only way

1254
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 3: you're going to be in heaven is if you're a

1255
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 3: plural wife. The only way you're going to be in

1256
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 3: heaven is if you're approved of by your priest of head.

1257
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 3: All this stuff that it's like. And then you don't

1258
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: want to not be in heaven because there's only one

1259
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 3: other place right evil and you don't want to be there.

1260
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 3: So your your mind isn't about like today, your mind

1261
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 3: has been being conditioned for I mean years and years

1262
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 3: and years. Me going to church was that and me

1263
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 3: like hearing like more and teaching like the home economics

1264
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 3: stuff and all that, Like it was like on all

1265
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 3: the time. Our music by the time I was a teenager,

1266
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 3: now all the music is being like before I got married,

1267
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 3: Like all that music is now like being changed out.

1268
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 3: So like even my mom's music had to like she

1269
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 3: had to put away all of her worldly albums and

1270
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: in order to like and what would they call the

1271
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 3: fine tuning, And it was becoming more and more and

1272
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 3: more controlled, where you know, like everything about what we

1273
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 3: were wearing is controlled, and everything that we're listening to

1274
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 3: on a daily basis is whether or not it's been

1275
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 3: approved of by the church. And you know, people like

1276
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 3: there would be people in the church that were like

1277
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 3: like men in the community that we were all raised

1278
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 3: to like look up to. Now we're being sent away

1279
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: and you're like, what is you know, like, what the hell?

1280
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: So you're constantly on edge. So by the time I'm

1281
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 3: getting married, it wasn't like there was this idea that

1282
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 3: maybe I could just be like, I'm not going to

1283
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 3: do that. You know. It wasn't like and I couldn't have.

1284
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 3: I would have blamed my mom. I would have been

1285
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 3: my mom, how dare you stand up for me? But

1286
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 3: it was it was like it was like a heart

1287
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: wrenching thing that happened because I found out, you know,

1288
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 3: I was getting married from him and he told me

1289
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 3: that He's like, you're I called your father and he said,

1290
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 3: look if I do this, and I'm sitting here listening

1291
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 3: to him, like and then he's like and then there's

1292
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 3: my sisters standing there, and I'm just going like, I

1293
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 3: should not be here. This is your home, and I

1294
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sitting here like I was over there

1295
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 3: to help her, and then hear he is like asking

1296
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 3: me to marry him.

1297
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, god.

1298
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: It really was, especially because I if there was a

1299
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 3: word that I could it wasn't. I can't say hate

1300
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 3: because I didn't want I didn't care that much about

1301
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 3: him enough to hate him. But he really repults me.

1302
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 3: So whenever like he would be around, I absolutely would

1303
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 3: I did not want to be in the same room

1304
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 3: as him, and I absolutely would be sick to my

1305
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: stomach every time he was around, and he was like

1306
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:06,959
Speaker 3: he would hit he was hitting out. He got married

1307
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 3: to my sister when I was ten, and he would

1308
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 3: hit on me like I was a thirteen year old

1309
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 3: girl and he's hitting on me. I didn't know that's

1310
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 3: what it was at this time at that time, so

1311
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 3: I just always just was like and I would call

1312
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 3: him a Greek right tise face. I was really mouthy,

1313
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 3: and my mom never like you know, like you can't

1314
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 3: say those words like it was more like you know,

1315
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 3: she knew I, and she she called me like nicknames

1316
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 3: of like meaning like that I was very mouthy too, like,

1317
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 3: but she wasn't. She would never stop me from like

1318
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 3: seeing how I felt so when I got married, like

1319
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 3: the day I found I would get married. I remember

1320
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 3: I said I don't have a dress. That was the

1321
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 3: first thing I said. And he's like, oh, the bet.

1322
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 3: And then my sister was like, oh, hey, yeah, I'll

1323
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 3: call and see if we can get your dress going.

1324
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 3: And I was like, and when is this supposed to happen.

1325
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 3: He's like, well, your dad's not in telling your father's

1326
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 3: not until today, so it'll be tomorrow. So I had

1327
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 3: a day to prepare, and I was just like, I

1328
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 3: gotta go. I got it. And he's like, but hey, wait,

1329
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 3: you didn't even say yes. I was like I literally

1330
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 3: said sure, I guess, and then I ran out the

1331
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 3: door and I ran and I went home and I

1332
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,959
Speaker 3: walked in. I opened up the door and I walked

1333
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 3: in and I just stood there and looked at my

1334
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 3: mom and she was playing the piano on the grand piano,

1335
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 3: and her back was to the door, and I remember

1336
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 3: her like turning around looking at me over her shoulder,

1337
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 3: and I just stood there looking at her, and she

1338
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 3: turned around and faced me, and I just remember both

1339
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 3: of us just like had tears in our eyes. And

1340
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: I remember all she did was she just I said, well,

1341
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: and she went well, she shrugged her shoulder and we

1342
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 3: just stood and looked at each other like I mean,

1343
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 3: I stood there and she sat on the piano, but

1344
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 3: she's like we both in my vision of both of

1345
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 3: us said that we were like deflated, like it's the

1346
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 3: end is like literally like anyway, that was my memory

1347
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 3: of that because there was no light. And then I

1348
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 3: just went over and sat down next to her and

1349
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 3: she hugged me at each other and just like let

1350
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 3: the tears run down our face. And then I remember

1351
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 3: just she said, she asked me some questions like how

1352
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 3: you doing, like what you didn't thing, and I just

1353
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I don't have like I don't have

1354
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 3: any shoes, I don't have like clothing for this. And

1355
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 3: she's like, let's go, let's go to town. Let's go

1356
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 3: figure this out, you know. And so that's that was

1357
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 3: the day that I found out. And so in my memory,

1358
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 3: I know she wasn't happy, she was she was heart

1359
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 3: It was heartbroke breaking to her as well. But I

1360
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 3: know like she knows, she knew that if she would

1361
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 3: have said, Martin, you don't have to do this, and

1362
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 3: I'm sure that I probably would have been like, Mom,

1363
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 3: you know, like you know, I have to Like, I

1364
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 3: don't think she would have like stood up against it,

1365
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 3: because I think she wanted to, Like she kind of

1366
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 3: prides herself or she would pride herself by being very

1367
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 3: open minded to what the kid wanted. Like her kids,

1368
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 3: she like they learned in a different way. So she

1369
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 3: loved stuff like Montessori schools because it didn't put the

1370
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 3: kid in. Every one of us weren't boxes, and she

1371
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 3: loved how like we all could learn in our own way.

1372
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 3: Some of us are very visual learners and some of

1373
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 3: us are very like, like, you need to hear stuff

1374
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 3: in my in my mind. That's her her mind, Like

1375
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 3: she could see what you kid needed, and I think

1376
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 3: that's why she just did. She kind of would back

1377
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 3: off and be like, let her kid make the choice

1378
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 3: or whatever.

1379
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 2: Do you think she was afraid of punishment herself.

1380
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I think that there was a lot

1381
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 3: of fear there as well.

1382
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 6: She of course, but she she was People who describe

1383
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 6: her like and I'm going to tell you about like

1384
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 6: her in like there are people who loved her.

1385
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 3: And then there are people who've never met her. And

1386
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 3: even the people that loved her that claimed that they

1387
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 3: didn't like her loved her because you couldn't help but

1388
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 3: she was like she was like so she was a fitfire.

1389
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 3: She was like very vocal and she just but at

1390
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 3: the same time, she was like one of the most loving,

1391
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 3: accepting people. And I've had people like, I'm serious up

1392
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 3: to like literally just barely week. I've had people that

1393
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 3: see me and they knew my mom, and so they'll say,

1394
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 3: You've got to be Kathy's granddaughter. You've got to be

1395
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 3: your daughter, You've got to you know, like somehow you

1396
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 3: are related to Kathy, And I'm like, that was my mom.

1397
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 3: You know. I'll have people be like and then they

1398
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 3: constantly are like, oh, your mom was literally the best

1399
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 3: person I've ever known, you know. And she would make

1400
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 3: friends with people like random strangers. One night we went

1401
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 3: shopping in Walmart and she walked through the door and

1402
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 3: a greeter knows her named, Hey Kathy, what are you doing?

1403
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 3: Because she just wouldn't make it like she just would

1404
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 3: always be rememberable, and I remember.

1405
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: Her desceance of that for me is just so severe,

1406
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, like the perfect mom who's also letting you

1407
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: get married when you're seventeen. That's so hard to hold

1408
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: in the same you know thing, And you're right, she was.

1409
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: She was terrified. I'm sure, like she didn't have a

1410
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: choice really.

1411
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is interesting this person who's so into

1412
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: thinking for herself and breaking the rules and whatever, and

1413
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 2: then her underage daughter.

1414
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very hard.

1415
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine that's a very comp You must

1416
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: have very complicated feelings about that. Okay, and we're gonna

1417
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: leave it there for now. Next week we will talk

1418
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 2: more about her second marriage and how she started unpacking

1419
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 2: her belief system and how she's thriving now, So stay tuned.

1420
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good holiday story, but we call it.

1421
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah next week. Actually it's perfect.

1422
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good for the holidays, it's good for December. Whatever. Listen,

1423
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 1: we so appreciate you being here for another week. We

1424
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: can't wait to see you again next week, and as always,

1425
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

1426
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me.

1427
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: Thank you Bye.

1428
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1429
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1430
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para and her.

1431
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 2: Theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1432
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: You can find us on a Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1433
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cultpod or on TikTok at trust

1434
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: Me Cult Podcast.

1435
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,600
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1436
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1437
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1438
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.