1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: What if everything you thought you knew about autism and 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: mental health wasn't the full story. Today's conversation might change 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: the way you see it. Welcome to Why Not Me? 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Embracing autism and mental health Worldwide, where real conversations and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: lived experiences inspire understanding and hope. I'm Tony Mantor. This 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: is where understanding begins. If this kind of conversation matters 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: to you, then follow the show so you don't miss 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: what comes next. Joining us today is when Estrata. She 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: is part of the Adventist Development and Relief Agency known 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: as ADRA, a global organization serving communities in need around 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: the world. This is not about titles or roles. It's 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: about lives touched, the challenges faced, and the moments that 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: don't always get seen. Today we're going beyond the surface 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: to talk about what it really means to serve and 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: how those experiences shape the person behind the work. 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: Thanks for jo joining us today, of. 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: Course, Now thank you for having me. 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 4: I've been looking forward to this getting to talk about 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 4: some of my favorite topics. 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 3: So thank you for having me. 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: Oh, it's my pleasure if you would give us a 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: little background on what you do. 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 4: Sure, so I am a mental health specialist at ADRA International. 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 4: So ADRA that's the Adventist Development and Relief Agency. We 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 4: are the global humanitarian armor the Seventh day Adventist Church, 26 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 4: and we're currently operating in more than one hundred twenty 27 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 4: countries worldwide. We have about one thousand different projects and 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 4: they're in the different fields of health, nutrition, water, education, 29 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 4: livelihoods or emergencies, and across all that mental health is 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 4: embedded into them. And so what I do as the 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 4: mental health specialist is not all are range of different roles. 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 4: There's maybe two core ones and one is I help 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: design and implement our mental health and psychosocial support programs, 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 4: and so that involves making sure that these programs follow 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 4: international guidelines, that they're delivered effectively and safely for our beneficiaries, 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 4: that they're culturally adapted, they're relevant, and they're feasible. And 37 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 4: then the other part of the work that I do 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 4: is also I support the staff that we deploy during emergencies. 39 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 4: So there are certain occasions, so when a major humanitarian 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 4: crisis might completely overwhelm the capacities of the local country office, 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 4: and so what we do in the situations, for example, 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 4: last year when Hurricane Melissa hit Jamaica or this year 43 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 4: with a war in the Middle East, is that we 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 4: deploy some of our personnel to help out those offices. 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 4: And so what I do is, because these staff members 46 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 4: are going to be undergoing, you know, a new culture 47 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 4: and new environment, a very stressful job in these new placements, 48 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 4: I make sure that they're well supported, that they have 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 4: the tools in the tool kit to be able to 50 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 4: maintain their resilience during deployment, and that they have intended 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 4: supports in place. 52 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: So yeah, those are just like internuts. 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: You've had the opportunity to work in some of the 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: more challenging environments in the world. Can you give us 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: a moment that changed the way that you understand mental health? 56 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's a great question. So I grew up 57 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 4: in the Philippines. I actually started out as a nurse there. 58 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 4: When I was younger, I just knew that I wanted 59 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 4: to work in the humanitarian field. And back then it 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 4: was because of a very simple reason. I wanted to 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 4: travel for work and I wanted to help people. So 62 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 4: I thought, why don't I travel for work well helping people? 63 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 3: And I thought that was what a humanitarian would do. 64 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 4: But then I think one formative experience for me was, 65 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 4: you know, growing up in the Philippines. 66 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we're exposed to. 67 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 4: A lot of different typhoons hurricane throughout the year, and 68 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 4: so growing up I was keenly aware of the effect 69 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 4: that this had on people, on children, on vulnerable populations, 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: and so one time I volunteered to help out with 71 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 4: this operation where basically this was during one of the 72 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: major typhoons, and they were essentially airlifting people from a 73 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 4: different province who had been affected by the typhoon and 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 4: had lost everything. 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: I'd lost their homes. 76 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 4: There were airlifting them in military airplanes and bringing them 77 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 4: to the capital, Manila, and so my role was to 78 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 4: welcome those people, give them psychological first aid. They had 79 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 4: come in basically wearing the clothes that they had so 80 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: that some of them were still wet, and so make 81 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 4: sure that they were warm, they had food, tweet we 82 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 4: would register them and then we would essentially load them 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 4: up into cars so that they could be either transported 84 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: to Some of them might have had relatives to live 85 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 4: within that area, but then others I don't really know 86 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 4: where they were, you know, shipped off to for lack 87 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 4: of a better word, and so that experience, it made 88 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 4: me think of displacement and what are we doing to 89 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 4: follow up with these needs of these people. 90 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: These people we've. 91 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 4: Just just a few days ago, they were safe and 92 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,799 Speaker 4: warm in their homes and now they're essentially transplanting different community. 93 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 4: What effect does this have on their mental health? Is 94 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: there any sort of follow up available? So I think 95 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 4: that was really formative to me wanting to go into 96 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 4: this word. 97 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: When people think about mental health, especially in humanitarian efforts, 98 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: most always they will think about trauma. 99 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: Most of the time, it's much more than that. 100 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: What are some of the things that they're missing when 101 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: they think that way. 102 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 4: I think that's a great question, and you're absolutely right, Tony. 103 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 4: So one of the biggest misconceptions about mental health, especially 104 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 4: in crisis settings, is that it's only about clinical care. 105 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 4: But in humanitarian context, people are affected at many different levels. So, yes, 106 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 4: there are some people who are experienced severe mental health conditions, right, 107 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 4: and they'll need therapy. 108 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: But then many more are dealing with. 109 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 4: Stress disruption, with the loss of routine and the breakdown 110 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 4: of their social systems. So what we do We call 111 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 4: it IMAGEPSS, right, it stands for mental health and psychosocial support. 112 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: It's just broader than mental health services. It includes everything 113 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 4: from basic psychological support and community activities to more specialized 114 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 4: care for people experiencing severe distress or mental health conditions. 115 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 3: Because the challenge in this field. 116 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 4: Is that you need to tryaj There's just a wide 117 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 4: range of different needs and not everyone in crisis will 118 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 4: need therapy, but they will all need support of some kind, 119 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 4: and we need to be able to match the intervention 120 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 4: with the need because if we give everybody therapy. 121 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 3: Will overwhelm the specialist services. 122 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 4: If we just give people basic care, then we're leaving 123 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 4: people with more significant needs out of the equation. 124 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 3: And so what we have. 125 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 4: For mental health is we call it the MHPSS pyramid, 126 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 4: and each level of the pyramid provides a different type 127 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 4: of support. So at the most basic level, we have 128 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 4: basic services and security. At the most basic level, people 129 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 4: need safety, right, they need stability, they need access to 130 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: essential services because in crisis settings, stress is not just 131 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 4: because of. 132 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: The trauma that they have experienced to get to this point. 133 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 4: But it's also by ongoing conditions that they're living in. 134 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 4: Its lack of shelter, food, insecurity, and certainty. And so 135 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 4: for adra one of the basic things we do is 136 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 4: we make sure that we provide food, water, shelter, and 137 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 4: healthcare first. And while those may not be traditionally seen 138 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 4: as mental health interventions, they do have a direct impact 139 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 4: on well being. 140 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: So like that's the first. 141 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: Level, and then we go to the second level, which 142 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 4: is all about community and family supports. Because crisis often 143 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: disrupt social networks. Families may be separated, people's roles are lost, 144 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 4: and so what adro We focus on rebuilding and strengthening 145 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 4: those social systems, So things like reuniting families. May be 146 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 4: building child friendly spaces so that children who have lost 147 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: access to like schooling and safe places will have a 148 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 4: safe space to play. Maybe that's making peer support groups 149 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 4: so that women youth can all support each other. 150 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: So that's level two, and then level three, now we're 151 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: getting to the more focused type of supports. 152 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 4: These are for people who are experiencing more significant distress. 153 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 4: They may be overwhelmed, they will need more structured support, 154 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: but they're not necessarily needing psychiatric care at this point. 155 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 4: So at this level we provide psychological first aid. We 156 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 4: teach them problem solving strategies, we teach them how to 157 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 4: manage their stress, and these are often delivered by trained 158 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 4: non specialists. And then lastly, the top level of this pyramid, 159 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 4: sorry for this crash course, is the specialized services that 160 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 4: we provide, and these are for people who are actually 161 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 4: experiencing major depression PTSD psychosis that require clinical intervention. 162 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 3: So at this point, we maybe. 163 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: Have clinics, we have mobile clinics, and these clinics provide 164 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: psychiatric care, medication management, or they if they're not capable 165 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 4: of doing those, they're at least capable of assessing these 166 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 4: patients and then referring them to a higher level of care. 167 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 4: Just this huge pyramid, recognizing that in these settings you're 168 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 4: not just targeting one level of trauma or one level 169 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 4: of need, but you're targeting this whole layer, intricate, interlayering need. 170 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: Now you just brought up psychosis and that deals with 171 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: serious mental illness. How do cultural differences shape the way 172 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: that that is understood? Because when you get into psychosis 173 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: and asignosia, many times that is so misunderstood. So what 174 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: is the thought process when you're dealing with different countries 175 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: around the world. 176 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, culture really plays a huge role in 177 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 4: mental health, and it's not just psychosis, right, And one 178 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 4: thing that I want to bring up is that culture 179 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 4: mental health manifests in many different ways, so cultural adaptation 180 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: is absolutely essential in this work. 181 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: We can apply just a one size fits all model. 182 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 4: So for example, sometimes when we come into a community, 183 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 4: we need to start with listening and understanding how communities 184 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 4: describe distress, what coping mechanisms already exist, and what support 185 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 4: systems are trusted. And so we first we try to 186 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 4: talk to the leaders in the community and understand who 187 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 4: are the people in the community that people turn to 188 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: when they want to talk about mental health. 189 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: Where do they want to go? 190 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 4: Is that a health clinic or maybe it's just a 191 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 4: school or community space. And then when we create the interventions, 192 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 4: we want to make sure that we're using very locally 193 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: relevant examples like maybe, you know, if we're working in 194 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 4: a more Western context, maybe the stressors that people have 195 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 4: are related to like their jobs or personal issues, but 196 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 4: in these crisis settings, maybe their challenges would go around 197 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 4: accessing water, livelihoods. And so we make sure that the 198 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: examples we're using are locally relevant. And then the way 199 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 4: that we deliver support also changes. So in some context, 200 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: individual counseling might feel unfamiliar or even uncomfortable, especially if 201 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 4: people are used to more collective ways of coping. So 202 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 4: group based approaches like community support groups might actually be 203 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 4: more effective. But then maybe in some settings they don't 204 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 4: want to spill, you know, their personal problems in front 205 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 4: of the whole group, and so in those settings we 206 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 4: choose to do more individual therapy. And then also we 207 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,359 Speaker 4: have to recognize that some communities already have the coping mechanisms. 208 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 4: You know, maybe in the more western setting, we think, oh, 209 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 4: journaling is a great way for people to improve their 210 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: mental health. But then in other cultural settings, what might 211 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 4: be more effective for them are faith based practices. Maybe 212 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: it's storytelling or community rituals. So we want to make 213 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 4: sure that we respect those cultural considerations. 214 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: What does recovery look like when you're dealing with places 215 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: around the world where resources are almost nonexistent. 216 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this comes into my questions for me, It 217 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 4: comes into my concepts related to resilience, right, and what 218 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 4: it would look like in these settings. Oftentimes, in these settings, 219 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 4: resilience and recovery it isn't this traumatic, heroic thing. It's 220 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 4: not something that we immediately see in humanitarian settings, resilience 221 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 4: and recovery can look very ordinary. Maybe it's apparent finding 222 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 4: a way to comfort their child in a place that 223 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 4: as it feel safe. It could be someone waking up 224 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 4: and continuing daily life even when everything has changed. It 225 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 4: could be a mother that chooses to and I use 226 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 4: this example because it's something that actually. 227 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 3: Happens in real life. Could be a mother. 228 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 4: That decided to eat again after giving birth. And let 229 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 4: me share this example with you is we have this 230 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 4: mobile clinic operating in Yemen, and we have postpart to 231 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 4: mothers that we are affected by conflict and displacement. And 232 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 4: this mother, she had a child who had deformities, She 233 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 4: had a ninia, she had anxiety, she had insomnia, and 234 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: when she found out that her fourth baby was going 235 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 4: to be another boy, she wanted a daughter. 236 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 3: She got dispressed and she refused to eat. 237 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 4: And so we had midwife come and talk to her, 238 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 4: visited her several different times, gave her psycho education, helped 239 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: her reduce the size of. 240 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 3: The problem in her head. And then after this she 241 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: was able. 242 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 4: To recover, to accept that these are her circumstances and 243 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 4: she is able to thrive. So recovery it can look 244 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 4: like a lot of things. It can look like people 245 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 4: deciding to take their medications regularly, but it can also 246 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 4: just look like people taking the first step and asking 247 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 4: for help. 248 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: Have you ever had a time when you're working and 249 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: you question to yourself is enough being done here? Then 250 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: after you assess it, what conclusion did you come up with? 251 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: And how did you handle it? 252 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 4: I think the question is the work is never going 253 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 4: to be enough, The need is always going to be great. 254 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 3: And I think. 255 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 4: Especially these days, we have a lot of conflict that 256 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 4: are going to definitely increase the number of people displaced 257 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 4: to have wars. Just twenty twenty four alone, I think 258 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 4: there were about one hundred and twenty four million people 259 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 4: who were displaced. When I think about that number, I 260 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 4: think of another statistic which says that one in every 261 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 4: five people who are displaced to have a mental health condition. 262 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: So when we think. 263 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: One in five of one hundred and twenty two million, 264 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: we're thinking of millions of people who have just a 265 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 4: great need for mental health care. So when I think 266 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 4: of that, it's easy to become discouraged. But I think 267 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 4: what motivates me to really keep going in this field, 268 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 4: I think is the progress that we've seen in how 269 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 4: MHPSS has evolved over time. One of the biggest shifts 270 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 4: I've seen is MHPSS and mental health. Previously, it was 271 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 4: often treated as an add on, something we addressed after 272 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 4: immediate needs like food, shelter, or health. But now we're 273 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 4: seeing a much stronger recognition that mental health is actually 274 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 4: foundational to recovery and not separate from it. 275 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: So that gives me hope. But even then, once. 276 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 4: Say, Tony, there's really so much that needs to be 277 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: done in this field. 278 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: We need to sustain investment. 279 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 4: That includes funding, but that also includes political will and 280 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 4: a broader shift in how we think about supporting people 281 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 4: affected by crisis, because the reality is in many of 282 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 4: the places that we work, people already know what they need, 283 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 4: Communities understand their challenges, they're capable, but they're missing their 284 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: resources to actually deliver that support at the scale that's needed. 285 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 4: So it's not always a question of what should we do, 286 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: but a question of how do we sustain and expend 287 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 4: and get investment for what we know already works? 288 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: Right, how do you build a trust with people that 289 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: have every reason not to trust a system or professional. 290 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 4: That's again another great question and This again goes into 291 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 4: topics related to stigma. You know, when stigma is integrated 292 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 4: into the system and people enter a healthcare clinic and 293 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 4: they experience stigma, then it affects the way that they'll 294 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 4: continue to engage with that system. And so what we 295 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 4: do is we make sure that we train staff to 296 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 4: communicate in a respectful, non judgmental way and to avoid 297 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 4: stigmatizing language, because even small interactions can influence whether someone 298 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 4: feels comfortable seeking support. So in many contexts, we make 299 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 4: sure that when our staff speak, they might not necessarily 300 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 4: say mental illness, they don't use words like crazy or 301 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 4: things that phrases that can feel stigmatizing, and tell them 302 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 4: to use language that people already relate to, such as, 303 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 4: you know, maybe stress, worry, feeling overwhelmed, or maybe the 304 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 4: lack of sleep. So it's kind of translating mental health 305 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 4: language into that. And then one of the things we 306 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 4: also do is, again I've alluded to this before, is 307 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: making sure that we engage with trusted community actors. This 308 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: could be religious leaders, they could be teachers, community health workers. 309 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 4: Because then if trusted individuals model supportive language and then 310 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 4: they can encourage help seeking, that can shift attitudes much 311 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 4: more effectively than outside messaging and loan. And so we 312 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 4: engage these trusted community leaders to speak openly about mental health. 313 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 4: And then we also really tap people with lived experience. 314 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 4: When people hear stories that are responsibly and respectfully shared 315 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: related to. 316 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: Mental health, stigma often decreases. 317 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 4: And so we also just normalize these conversations. We deliver 318 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 4: support in a group setting, like in a parenting group, 319 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 4: youth group, or community activity becomes normalized. We tell people 320 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: that whatever they're experiencing, there's stress, their responses to these 321 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 4: abnormal experiences, they are normal and they're safe to talk about. 322 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 4: And that's how we address self stigma and maybe distressing 323 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 4: the system as well. 324 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: Okay, my next question is in two parts. When you 325 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: step back and you look at your work, what gives 326 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: you the most hope right now? And on the flip side, 327 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: what still keeps you up at night. 328 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: Let me think about that for a second. What gives 329 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: me hope? 330 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: I think I briefly spoke about it. I think it's 331 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 4: the shift that I'm starting to see in how people 332 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 4: understand mental health. Again, for a long time, it's been 333 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 4: treated as something secondary, something you address after everything else, 334 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 4: but more and more, I'm seeing people recognize that mental 335 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 4: health is foundational and it's not separate from things like education, livelihoods, 336 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 4: or recovery, and it allows all of those things to work. 337 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 4: And so when I see that shift from mental health 338 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 4: being seen as an afterthought to now being seen as 339 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 4: a multiplier to all these different interventions, to all these 340 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 4: different approaches, it makes me feel hopeful because it means 341 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 4: that we're starting to understand people more holistically, not just 342 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 4: in terms of what they need, but in terms of 343 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 4: what helps them move forward. 344 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 3: What keeps me awake at night. 345 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 4: What really disheartens me sometimes is how people view refugees 346 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 4: and a lot of these people that we serve. I 347 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 4: think there's so many misconceptions that they are just people 348 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 4: who are passive recipients of aid, and I think that 349 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 4: makes people view them as people who just suck resources 350 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 4: or people who, you know, it kind of dehumanizes them. 351 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 4: And so when I hear Tory about that about these 352 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 4: populations that we serve that are incredibly resourceful, who are 353 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 4: capable or very resilient, it disheartens me a little bit 354 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 4: because these people are people with so much resilience. We've 355 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 4: overcome so much and are trying to just recover. 356 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: And use the tools that they have to live a 357 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: normal life, the normal lives that we're living. 358 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 4: And so I really stay up at night thinking of 359 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 4: ways to help people care about these populations and see 360 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 4: them as human. 361 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so, now, how do people find more about what 362 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: you're doing? 363 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, if people who are interested in what we do, 364 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 4: especially at ADRA, you can go to our. 365 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: Website that's ADRA dot org. 366 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 4: That's ADRA dot org, and you can learn more about 367 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 4: our different programs there. There's also what tab up top 368 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 4: on the website that says ways to give or ways 369 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 4: to help. I believe, and so if you are so 370 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 4: inclined to do so, please feel fee too click that tab. 371 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: Okay, for the person listening right now who wants to 372 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: help but doesn't know how, what's the first step that 373 00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: they have to take? 374 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: I think it's really just awareness. 375 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: I did a study once on how we can make 376 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 4: people more attune to the needs of refugees and to 377 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 4: their mental health, and it really starts with contact. So 378 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 4: I would encourage people there are refugees in your communities, 379 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 4: there are people with mental health conditions who might be 380 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 4: your neighbors, who might be your coworkers, and so I 381 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 4: encourage you to talk to them, get to know them, 382 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 4: get to know their needs, get to know their stories. 383 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: What they've been through. 384 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 4: I've had the opportunity in my life to speak with 385 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 4: refugees who have traveled from their original countries, crossed oceans. 386 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 3: To get to where they are today and just hearing. 387 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 4: Their stories of bravery and how they're now readjusting, but 388 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 4: also just hearing about their normal lives and what they 389 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 4: were back in their home countries, of whether they were 390 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 4: a doctor, a business professional, or a student, and it 391 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 4: just like humanizes these people in my eyes. So I think, 392 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 4: really the first step is awareness and getting to know 393 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 4: your neighbor and seeing them as human, I think is 394 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 4: a great first step. 395 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: What is one story that kind of sticks with you 396 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: and not because it was tragic, but because it reveals 397 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: something very important? 398 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this story is it does start out a 399 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 4: little tragic. 400 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 3: So I had the opportunity. 401 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 4: Of interviewing some refugees who had been displaced, they had 402 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: traveled to Greece, and these were because they were members 403 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 4: of the LGBT community, and they came from countries where 404 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 4: being part of that community was a death sentence. So 405 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 4: this particular person, he was a refugee, and his story 406 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 4: was that he was kicked out of his village because 407 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 4: he was gay. And then when he tried to return 408 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 4: back to his village, and this is quite tragic, he 409 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 4: returned to his house being burnt by the villagers with 410 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 4: his family inside the house, and he found out that 411 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 4: because there was a misconception in that community that being 412 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 4: gay can be infectious, they decided to kill his whole family. 413 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 4: And so he escaped and he, you know, he made 414 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 4: it through food, and then he wrote on a dinghy 415 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 4: on a boat and. 416 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 3: Made his way to Athens. 417 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 4: But then he met a donor there who spoke to 418 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 4: him about how do you want to move forward from here? 419 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: And his story was that he decided, I want to 420 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 4: be able to help other people. I want to be 421 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 4: able to help refugees in this area find shelter. I 422 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 4: want to be able to give them language lessons. I 423 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 4: want to be able to help them find gainful employment. 424 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 4: And so this man was able to take the pain 425 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 4: from his experiences and transform it into a wag to 426 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 4: help other people. 427 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 3: So I believe that that story really stuck with me. 428 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 4: But also I think another story that goes to your 429 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 4: second question of. 430 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: You know what, something that was revealing. 431 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 4: I remember asking one of these refugees once I asked them, 432 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 4: you know what, what is your hope from here now 433 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 4: that you've received the supports? 434 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 3: What do you want to be? 435 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 4: And I came in asking that question expecting something lofty like, oh, 436 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 4: I want to change the world. Oh I want to 437 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 4: be able to become a doctor, and things like that, 438 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 4: and the person's response was, well, I want to go 439 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 4: home eventually, maybe I want to find work. 440 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 3: It was just a very simple. 441 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: Answer that made me realize that I think I was 442 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 4: being part of the narrative that refugee should be able 443 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 4: to rationalize their existence and the help that we give 444 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 4: them by becoming someone extraordinary, when in reality, they don't 445 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 4: owe us that right. They can be just like us 446 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 4: and they have normal aspirations just like us. And placing 447 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 4: that expectation on them, I think is a shift in 448 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 4: perspective that I needed to change. 449 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 3: And so, yeah, that was revealing to me. 450 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so one last question is how do you define 451 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: dignity and mental health care, especially in the places where 452 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: people tend to feel forgotten. 453 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so again I think this also goes back to 454 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 4: the concepts of resilience. So resilience has four pillars, and 455 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 4: these four pillars are social competence, problem solving, autonomy, and hope. 456 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 3: So if a person as all four of those things, 457 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 3: and they will have resilience. 458 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 4: And I think your question of dignity goes to the 459 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 4: third one, and that is giving people autonomy or a 460 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 4: sense of agency, the feeling that they have control over 461 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 4: their life, even in constrained environments. And so we see 462 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 4: that in a lot of small but important ways, when 463 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 4: people make decisions about their daily lives, when they contribute 464 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 4: to their households, when they problem solve, when they decide 465 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 4: how to manage their limited resources. 466 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: So they're able to do that on their own. 467 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 4: But I think for us, for people who are trying 468 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: to help, we need to remember that when we design programs, 469 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 4: we need to restore a sense of agency and make 470 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 4: sure that these people whose control is often stripped from them, 471 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 4: have a voice in the interventions that we create. So 472 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: supporting resilience means creating opportunities for people to make choices 473 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: and have a voice, and that can be as simple 474 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: as involving them in program design, or as practacle as 475 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 4: giving people options in how they access services. We're not 476 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 4: just giving them, hey, this is what we want you 477 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 4: to do, but we give them voice. Maybe we even 478 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 4: have seen refugee communities where the people, the refugees in 479 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 4: the communities, they're actually given roles where they're the ones 480 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 4: who provide. 481 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 3: Training to people. 482 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 4: Maybe they were teachers in the past, and so we 483 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 4: give them opportunities to teach at these camps, and so 484 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 4: giving them this sense of purpose, giving them the sense 485 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 4: of agency is a big way to give them some 486 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 4: dignity that they might have lost in the journey to 487 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 4: put them to get here. 488 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so in closing, what would you like people the 489 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: listeners to know that you think is important that they 490 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: hear from you. 491 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 3: My message for listeners, I think. 492 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 4: Is to really reconsider how we think about people who 493 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 4: are going through different circumstances. We often see refugees displaced 494 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 4: individuals in ways that are very one dimensional, like they're 495 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 4: just recipients of aid, But they're actually people who are 496 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 4: incredibly resourceful, who are problems solving every day, who are 497 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 4: supporting each other, who are actively trying to rebuild them lives. 498 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 4: So I think when we start looking at people that 499 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 4: way that ship is really critical not just for dignity 500 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 4: but also for effectiveness. And I wanted, actually Tony to 501 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 4: quote when preparing to speak to you this podcast, I 502 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 4: listen to your song that I believe like this podcast 503 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 4: title was based on lyrics song of why Not Me? 504 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 4: And I know that those lyrics that you have and 505 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 4: that song you had specifically dedicated it to the autism community. 506 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 4: But while I was listening to it, I couldn't help 507 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 4: but think that you could have also just written this 508 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 4: song about refugee communities as well, because when you talk 509 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 4: about mountains that have to be climb or like motions 510 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 4: that need to be crossed, these are literally and figuratively 511 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 4: the things that refugees have to overcome, right They need 512 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 4: to get to the other side of the mountain. They 513 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 4: literally have to cross oceans so they can see that 514 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 4: the dream that they have and realize and get away 515 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 4: from the dangers that they have and experience the you know, 516 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 4: reach the goals that they have for themselves. 517 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 3: So I think looking at. 518 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 4: You know, refugees from that perspective as people who are 519 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: overcomerce rather than as people who are victims. 520 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 3: I hope that's what listeners take away. 521 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, nice, I really appreciate you taking the time to 522 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: join us. 523 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you 524 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 4: and the work that you're doing. 525 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks again. 526 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: A sincere thank you to our guests for sharing their 527 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: journey with us today. We appreciate their honesty, courage, and 528 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: willingness to open their heart in hopes of helping others. 529 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: If today's conversation helped you see the world a little differently, 530 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: then we've accomplished exactly what we set out to do. 531 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: Until next time, keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, 532 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: keep asking yourself, why not me?