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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going

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Speaker 3: to have a conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting.

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar.

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Speaker 4: Did he the thing you were getting married?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 2: I proposed right before she got herself arrested for I

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Speaker 2: got myself Aretha.

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Speaker 4: Actually you got me Rethon. We asked me how you're

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Speaker 4: teener am I we You're like, oh, it'sdy Akompfer coming.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you know my TENA. That's from Sean Baker's Tangerine,

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Speaker 3: which turns ten this year.

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Speaker 2: Baker won four Oscars back in March for Anora. That

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Speaker 2: same Oscars weekend, we screened Tangerine as part of Film

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Speaker 2: Spotting Fest. Our post screening conversation with Vultures Alison Wilmore is.

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Speaker 3: Ahead, plus the film Spotting Madness Final four and more.

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Speaker 3: It's all ahead.

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Speaker 2: Merry Christmas, Eve, Bitch film Spotting, Welcome to Film Spotting,

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Speaker 2: and welcome back from Boulder, Colorado. Josh, how are you feeling?

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Speaker 2: Rumor has it you just got waylaid by some kind

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Speaker 2: of virus while you were out there. Is it like

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Speaker 2: when I was too scared to talk about two thousand

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Speaker 2: and one of Space Odyssey and had some kind of

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Speaker 2: that's right, visceral physical reaction to it. Is that what

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Speaker 2: happened with you in The Wizard of Oz?

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Speaker 3: I forgot about that. No, I was so excited to

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Speaker 3: talk the Wizard of Oz and we got off to

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Speaker 3: a great start Day one. We watched it in the afternoon,

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Speaker 3: just a few hours before Cynthia Arrivo came for the

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Speaker 3: keynote speech and shared some wicked stories. That was all great.

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Speaker 3: Day one of interrupting went off fine. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: that second day of interrupting the night before something something

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Speaker 3: got me Adam and got me bad. So I have

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Speaker 3: to thank Bolder Weekly film critic Michael J. Casey, who

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Speaker 3: always helps out with interruptis. He stepped in and led

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Speaker 3: that particular session along with Amy Krutz, who's the chair

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Speaker 3: of the Conference on World Affairs Film Committee. So the

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Speaker 3: two of them handled it. Everyone plowed through, got us going,

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Speaker 3: and I rallied I think to show up for the

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Speaker 3: final session. We did make it through the end of

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Speaker 3: the film, and yeah, I rallied enough. Later on the show,

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Speaker 3: I'll do some shout outs for the film Spotting meet up.

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Speaker 3: I was able to at least kick off that same night,

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Speaker 3: but that put the recovery back a little bit. So

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Speaker 3: I'm still struggling to Tad. But Adam, you know, the

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Speaker 3: real news buzzing around Boulder, of course, is that Sundance

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Speaker 3: there in twenty twenty seven. And it's like the first

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Speaker 3: thing anybody brought up when they, you know, saw me

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Speaker 3: anew of my film background or would learn of it.

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Speaker 3: They would ask, you know, have you been to Sundance?

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Speaker 3: Are you going to come back? And as I told you,

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Speaker 3: and as I told Sam, the one of the things

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Speaker 3: I did while I was out there is be sure

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Speaker 3: to secure us some film spotting housing in case we

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Speaker 3: can pull off a Sundance trip in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: We got a place to stay.

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Speaker 2: At least that's very good to hear, because I do

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Speaker 2: think this move is going to mark film Spotting's return

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Speaker 2: to Sundance. It's always a little bit of an iffy

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Speaker 2: time for me because it happens at the end of January,

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Speaker 2: right when classes are resuming for the spring semester, so

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Speaker 2: I can't stay out there the entire time, But I

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Speaker 2: think a good Thursday night to Sunday maybe in the works.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've been to Sundance since twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: right around twenty ten. And I do think being in

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Speaker 2: Bolder it makes the travel a little bit easier coming

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Speaker 2: from where I am now, I can get a direct

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Speaker 2: flight out to Denver, can get to Boulder a little

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Speaker 2: easier than I could getting to Salt Lake City and

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Speaker 2: then off to Park City from there. And also Kevin Rich,

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Speaker 2: who is my college roommate and is kind of the

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Speaker 2: reason film Spotting exists because he's the person who back

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Speaker 2: around two thousand said I have to introduce you to

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Speaker 2: this guy I'm now hanging out with in Chicago named Sam.

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Speaker 2: I think you'd really like him. You guys would really

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Speaker 2: hit it off. He is a theater professor at Boulder,

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Speaker 2: so a reason for Sam and I to go out

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Speaker 2: there and hang out with Kevin in addition to hanging

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Speaker 2: out with you and watching a lot of movies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice to have some connections in Boulder. The

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Speaker 3: town itself is beautiful, as I've come to learn going

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Speaker 3: there the last maybe seven or eight years now. The

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Speaker 3: couple of times I went to Sundance in Park City

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Speaker 3: was amazing. I mean just that setting, that locale. I

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Speaker 3: had a great time. But yeah, it's nice that this

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Speaker 3: is going to be an opportunity. It sounds like for

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Speaker 3: all of us to get back there.

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Speaker 2: Well, Michael Phillips and I had a good time without you.

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Speaker 2: We had a wonderful discussion of Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice,

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Speaker 2: and I did have the revelation I know why everyone

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Speaker 2: so adores this movie now. And the top five rain

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Speaker 2: scenes was really fun as well. So it was good

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Speaker 2: to do an old school show.

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Speaker 3: I got to give it to you. I have to

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Speaker 3: listen to the whole show. But I did peek at

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Speaker 3: that top five list because I was intrigued by the

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Speaker 3: idea you going my neighbor Totoro. I mean, I could

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Speaker 3: quibble maybe with the placement at five. I would have

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Speaker 3: definitely gone higher. But not only that scene as a

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Speaker 3: rain scene, but maybe one of my favorite Miyazaki scenes.

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Speaker 3: I've led a workshop on that scene at a few

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Speaker 3: colleges because I talk about it in movies. Our prayers

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Speaker 3: and Totoro as a prayer of joy. It is, I mean,

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Speaker 3: just Chef's kiss. Nice work there, sir.

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Speaker 2: Thank you well, you were there in spirit via my

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Speaker 2: top five. Josh, even though you weren't here last week,

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Speaker 2: it's good to have you back this week on Film Spotting. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's still Film Spotting Madness time, best of the twenty

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Speaker 2: first century so far. Though we are winding down. We

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Speaker 2: started back in early March with sixty four films. We

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Speaker 2: are down to the final four and voting is live

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Speaker 2: in those final four matchups right now filmspotting dot net

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Speaker 2: slash Madness if you have not voted already. Also later

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Speaker 2: in the show, a highlight from Film Spotting Fest, our

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Speaker 2: weekend long celebration of years of podcasting back in March.

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Speaker 2: It's a Q and A with Vulture critic Alison Wilmore

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Speaker 2: that followed our screening of Sean Baker's Tangerine. The very

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Speaker 2: same weekend of that screening, Baker went on to win

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Speaker 2: an armful of oscars. That's exactly how we planned it, right, Josh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they call it the film Spotting Bump.

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Speaker 2: Also, Project Tarkovsky gets under way. We're knocking out the

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Speaker 2: Andre Tarkovski filmography our respective blind spots. Anyway, this week

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Speaker 2: to early films from the Russian Master, his student film

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one's The Steamroller and the Violin, which puts

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Speaker 2: maybe every other student film ever made to shame, and

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Speaker 2: his featured debut, which might also put a lot of

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Speaker 2: feature debuts to shame, Ivan's Childhood from nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 2: If you would like to see the full lineup and

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Speaker 2: more about our marathons, Visitfilmspotting dot Net slash Marathons. Before

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Speaker 2: we get to that, Tangerine Q and A with Alison,

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Speaker 2: we did both catch up with something new over the

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Speaker 2: weekend separate movies, The Fishing Place. This is a World

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Speaker 2: War two drama, maybe a bit of coincidence spotting with

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Speaker 2: Ivan's Childhood this week. I believe it's playing at Facet's

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Speaker 2: Film Forum in Chicago this weekend. What should we know

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Speaker 2: about it?

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Speaker 3: Josh? First, I have to make a confession here. The

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Speaker 3: title and the subject and the setting and all that

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Speaker 3: intrigued me about The Fishing Place. So I looked into

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Speaker 3: it a little bit more. Came to realize the director here,

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Speaker 3: Rob Tregenza, an American indie stalwart with whom I just

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Speaker 3: have not been familiar, but he's been doing work for

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Speaker 3: many years. Gava guy is a film of his and

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Speaker 3: talking to strangers as well. Probably listeners know those I

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Speaker 3: sadly did not, and was glad to be introduced to

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Speaker 3: his work with The Fishing Place because it's quite good.

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Speaker 3: It's especially going to appeal to a fishingados of very long,

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Speaker 3: very contemplative, single takes that is primarily what The Fishing

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Speaker 3: Place is composed of. Even though it has this I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you'd want to call it a genre setting,

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Speaker 3: but a familiar, somewhat familiar story of this set in

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Speaker 3: this village in Norway during during World War two Nazi

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Speaker 3: occupied centers mostly on three characters, a Nazi officer played

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Speaker 3: by fred Winther, a housekeeper played by Ellen Dorritt Peterson,

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Speaker 3: and then a German minister played by Andreas Lust who

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Speaker 3: she is forced to spy on by the Nazi officer.

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Speaker 3: But as I said, these are all vignettes, and Tregenza

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Speaker 3: employs a It's a modest crane, so I think sometimes

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Speaker 3: we think of these huge Hollywood production sized cranes, but

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Speaker 3: you see it later in the film. Won't spoil exactly how,

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Speaker 3: and it essentially can be housed on the back of

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Speaker 3: a pickup truck. It looks like, and he even uses

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Speaker 3: this for interior scenes, so these are unbroken takes that

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Speaker 3: are moving around the room. The interesting thing is it

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Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily immerse you in the moment or in the

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Speaker 3: world the way you might expect. I did learn that

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Speaker 3: Tregenza also served as a cinematographer on Bilatar's Workmeister Harmonies,

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Speaker 3: which is just this masterful, you know, meditation that consists

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Speaker 3: of these thirty nine extended single takes as well, but

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Speaker 3: that creates this world. It's kind of centered on a

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Speaker 3: traveling circus, this world that you are fully immersed in

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Speaker 3: and succumb to, whereas the fishing Place I did feel

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Speaker 3: for me was more of a calculated intellectual exercise. Many

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Speaker 3: of the moments feel like experimental theater in a way

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Speaker 3: more than more than cinema oddly, so you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure how that might register for some people. Some

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Speaker 3: people might love it and really thrill at that that

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Speaker 3: sort of attempt and that sort of style. The movie

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Speaker 3: also jumps breaks the fourth wall for its final thirty

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Speaker 3: minutes in a very fascinating way that might work for

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Speaker 3: some viewers and might not for others. So I would

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Speaker 3: definitely recommend it for its originality. If like me, you

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Speaker 3: are not familiar with Tregenza, I think it's a good

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Speaker 3: place to start because of that setting and that familiarity

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Speaker 3: brings you into it. So yeah, that's the fishing place.

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Speaker 3: And as you said, Adam, you know it is playing

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Speaker 3: at Facet's Film Forum here in Chicago. I think there

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Speaker 3: are going to be two showings on Saturday, April nineteen,

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Speaker 3: if you do want to catch it. And I know

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Speaker 3: you and Michael gave a little nod two Facets and

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Speaker 3: on their fiftieth anniversary this year on last week's show,

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Speaker 3: and just wanted to chime in and add my congratulations

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Speaker 3: and also, you know, just say thank you for what

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Speaker 3: they've done over the years, not just for the film community,

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Speaker 3: but for me. I've gotten to know the current executive director,

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Speaker 3: Karen Carterrelli and marketing director marketing manager. I should say

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Speaker 3: I'm a greenleaf. In recent years, Emma helped me with

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Speaker 3: a screening and a book talk around. Talk to me

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Speaker 3: about two years ago now in promotion of my horror

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Speaker 3: book fear Not, when I was launching that, and my

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Speaker 3: ties actually go back even further with Facets. I think

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Speaker 3: I've shared this once on the show before. But go

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Speaker 3: back to summer of ninety six, just graduated from college.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to make it as a film critic, Adam.

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Speaker 3: I may not have a job as a film critic,

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Speaker 3: but you know what, I've got some freelance connections. I

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Speaker 3: get a few regular gigs at the Daily, South Town

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Speaker 3: and elsewhere, so surely I can build a career on this. Right, Well,

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Speaker 3: you got to pay the bills too, so I, while

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Speaker 3: doing that, get a job in the mail room of Facets,

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Speaker 3: which was they were like direct VHS too. It was

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Speaker 3: like the you know, way before Netflix. These are VHS tapes.

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Speaker 3: Hard to find titles, right, like foreign language titles, international titles,

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Speaker 3: independent titles. If you wanted to watch them on VHS.

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Speaker 3: Oftentimes the only place in the United States to get

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Speaker 3: it was Facets. So down in the basement, in a

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Speaker 3: way back room was a team of people just mailing

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Speaker 3: these out. And that's where I worked. That's where I

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Speaker 3: made the steady paycheck. Worked with work with a guy.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to my coworker who wore like a crocodile

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Speaker 3: Dundee style hat and a knife, a massive knife on

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Speaker 3: his belt to match. I don't know why every day

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Speaker 3: I hope you're doing well out there. You are a

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Speaker 3: little intimidating, but you know, always nice to me also.

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Speaker 3: But it was a great job at the time because

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Speaker 3: I got to read the backs of all those VHS

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Speaker 3: cassette tapes, right and learn about these movies as this

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Speaker 3: aspiring critic that maybe i'd only heard of and got

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Speaker 3: to see, you know, who was involved, the credits, the

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Speaker 3: stort of stuff you do when you have a job

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Speaker 3: like that. And yeah, my supervisor at the time got

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Speaker 3: me onto a Chicago International Film Festival like documentary short

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Speaker 3: jury because he knew I was interested in criticism, so,

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Speaker 3: you know, even though I was in the mailroom, just

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Speaker 3: a great place to kind of be soaking up that

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Speaker 3: culture so fast. It's a big part, big part of

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Speaker 3: my life over the years, so many others here in Chicago,

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Speaker 3: so major congrats on fifty years of influence and hopefully

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Speaker 3: many more.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that story, and I didn't mention this

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Speaker 2: last week with Michael, But when I was a film

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Speaker 2: student here in Chicago for a spell, I didn't live

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Speaker 2: too far from facets, and you could imagine I was

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Speaker 2: a frequent visitor, Josh, especially if you're in film school

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Speaker 2: and in a directing class they're showing you something like

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Speaker 2: lav Ura and you're so stunned by it that you say, oh,

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Speaker 2: there's two more films that are part of this trilogy.

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Speaker 2: How do I see La Note? How do I see

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Speaker 2: Ley Clice? The only place you could get those films

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Speaker 2: yep at that time was at Facets, so it was indispensable.

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Speaker 2: And then later fast forward a few years from your

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Speaker 2: time in the mail room, Josh, Facets is now doing

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Speaker 2: the Netflix model. They have DVDs and they're mailing out DVDs.

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Speaker 2: Sam and I used to get so many films from Facets.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just Netflix. How did we watch films that

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Speaker 2: were part of our marathons. We got some of these

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Speaker 2: titles that were largely overlooked that were blind spots for

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Speaker 2: us because we could get them via facet So as

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Speaker 2: long as that service existed, we were regular subscribers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Rich Source now and then.

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Speaker 2: The Fishing Place, as Josh said, currently out in limited

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Speaker 2: release and again playing this Saturday, April nineteenth at Facets

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Speaker 2: in Chicago. I caught up with a movie that hit

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Speaker 2: New York in LA just at the end of March,

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Speaker 2: expanded to Chicago. And some additional markets on April fourth,

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Speaker 2: and then hit some other markets like Iowa City just

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Speaker 2: this past weekend, the eleventh. It's The Ballad of Wallace Island,

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Speaker 2: directed by James Griffiths. It's about an eccentric UK Lottery winner,

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Speaker 2: Tim Keith's Charles Heath, who lives alone on the remote

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Speaker 2: island of the title. He invites his favorite musician, Tom

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Speaker 2: Basden's Herb McGuire to perform a private gig. Unbeknownst to Herb,

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Speaker 2: Charles also invites the singer's ex bandmate and ex lover,

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Speaker 2: Carrie Mulligan's Nell, to reunite for the gig. They were

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Speaker 2: this folk duo known as McGuire Mortimer.

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Speaker 3: Listen to your songs back in the day as as

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Speaker 3: long as yeah got that at auction.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, you are a fan. It's always mcguirev Watimer.

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Speaker 2: Your music changed everything.

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Speaker 1: It's oh if you need.

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Speaker 5: Some affection and.

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Speaker 2: Very different from the fishing place from what it sounds like, Josh,

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Speaker 2: though another movie focused on three characters. Your mileage may

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Speaker 2: entirely depend on where tim Keyes Charles falls for you

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Speaker 2: on the annoying versus endearing scale. To call him socially

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Speaker 2: awkward would be under selling it intensely. He has no

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Speaker 2: real sense of personal space. He does not stop talking ever,

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Speaker 2: and especially tough for you to take. Possibly around ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of the words he says and phrases he uses

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Speaker 2: are puns. It's as if it's as if he has

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Speaker 2: a compulsion to do it. He cannot be and not

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Speaker 2: help himself. I don't think the intent of that is

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Speaker 2: that we're supposed to find most or maybe any of

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Speaker 2: those puns funny. But every once in a while I

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Speaker 2: did laugh at the sheer absurdity of his wore you down, yeah,

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Speaker 2: of his desperate verbal maneuvering. It did occasionally feel to

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Speaker 2: me Josh like he was a TV sitcom character dropped

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Speaker 2: into this sweet little indie movie. But when the movie

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Speaker 2: does need Charles to be a real human being, Key delivers.

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Speaker 2: And what I wasn't going to go for a movie

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Speaker 2: that's wall to wall singer songwritery, folk music with great harmonies.

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Speaker 3: It's it's more.

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Speaker 2: Overtly sentimental than Once or Sing Street or John Carney's

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Speaker 2: other films. But the Carney Sandbox is the sandbox whiles

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Speaker 2: Island is playing, and it's a sandbox. I'm particularly fond of,

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Speaker 2: especially when, as in those Carne films, the original songs

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Speaker 2: are legitimately really good and you're looking up the soundtrack

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Speaker 2: right after you see it or the next day on

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Speaker 2: Spotify or Apple. A lot of those songs that we

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Speaker 2: hear on the soundtrack are played and performed throughout the movie.

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Speaker 2: But there are three main music moments, and I give

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Speaker 2: credit to Griffiths as a director because Basden's Hugh is

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Speaker 2: performing or is one of the performers in each of

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Speaker 2: the three scenes I'm referencing, but the camera favors a

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Speaker 2: different character during each tune. The first time it's Charles

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Speaker 2: who's having the strongest reaction, the second it's Nell having

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Speaker 2: the epiphany, and finally it's Hugh. So rather than feeling redundant,

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Speaker 2: the songs expand the film's emotional range, and it is

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Speaker 2: a true three hander, each character having their own conflict

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Speaker 2: and resolution, which again gives it some depth, some depth

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Speaker 2: that worked enough for me certainly to recommend the Battle

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Speaker 2: of Wallace Island if it's playing near you.

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Speaker 3: Well. In regard to the pun Master Tim Key, I'm

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Speaker 3: looking him up right now. This is you know, this

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Speaker 3: might help me out. I don't know if it'll help

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Speaker 3: you out. Apparently he was Pigeon Man in Mickey seventeen,

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Speaker 3: Remember the guy who was inexplicably dressed as a pigeon

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Speaker 3: mascot for a bunch of the uses. You know, he

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Speaker 3: made me laugh there, so.

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Speaker 2: I think he'll make you laugh here as well.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: The Ballad of Wallis Island is currently out in limited release.

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Speaker 2: If you see either of the films we just recommended

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Speaker 2: and agree or disagree with us, we'd love to hear

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Speaker 2: from you feedback at film spotting dot net.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Alexandra, come here, listen.

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Speaker 4: Have you seen Cindyrella.

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Speaker 3: Looks like someone has a crutch. Cindy's back on the block.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's back. She's back, and she's going hard.

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Speaker 3: Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 5: Raw.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to our conversation with Vultures Alison Wilmore about

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Speaker 2: Sean Baker's Tangerine. We included Tangerine in the first ever

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Speaker 2: Film Spotting Fest back in March for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 2: It was a Golden Brick winner back at in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Has been on the show before, and well everything Baker

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Speaker 2: went on to accomplish after that film, including making Red

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Speaker 2: Rocket and the Florida Project and Yes Anora, winning Oscars

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Speaker 2: for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Screenplay, and Best Editing.

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Speaker 3: Now, Tangerine was not Baker's first feature. He'd actually been

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Speaker 3: making films for a decade before we caught up with them.

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Speaker 3: It was though, the first film of his that put

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Speaker 3: him on our radar and for a lot of people

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Speaker 3: had the same experience. I think Tangerine debuted at sun

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Speaker 3: Dance and became known as the movie that was shot

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Speaker 3: on an iPhone five s. Also notable, Baker's cast was

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Speaker 3: mostly non professionals that included the leads Katana Kiki Rodriguez

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Speaker 3: and Maya Taylor. In Tangerine, Rodriguez and Taylor are Cindy

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Speaker 3: and Alexandra, transsex workers in La who go on a

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Speaker 3: Christmas Eve mission to locate Cindy's pimp, played by James Ransom.

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Speaker 3: The film also spends time with an Arminian taxi driver

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Speaker 3: Karen Kira Gulian's Rosamick, who is friendly with Taylor's Alexandra.

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Speaker 3: After screening Tangerine, we chatted with Alison about the film.

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Speaker 1: It's an honor, I mean, just thank you all for

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Speaker 1: being here. It's it's been so great to see the

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Speaker 1: film spotting community out and enjoy movies with you all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are a listener of the show, you

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Speaker 2: know Allison has been a regular fixture on the show.

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Speaker 2: But just to give a little bit of background, I

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Speaker 2: think we may have met for the first time back

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Speaker 2: when we were both at sun Dance.

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Speaker 1: That's sounds about right. I mean it's possible Matt and

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Speaker 1: I were.

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Speaker 2: Doing the IFC but arguing the I podcast I was

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Speaker 2: at Sundance. I think I appeared on that podcast might

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Speaker 2: have been the first time we met. And well, we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about Matt Singer later and how how we met Matt,

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Speaker 2: but through him got to know you. And you've been

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Speaker 2: a regular contributor over the years to the show and

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Speaker 2: an occasional guest host and of course also Film Spotting SVU.

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Speaker 2: When the IFC News podcast ended, I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: stop hearing Matt and Allison talk about movies together. So

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Speaker 2: we found found a reason. How many shows do we

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Speaker 2: get A one hundred and sixty?

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Speaker 1: It was a lot, Yes it was. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if those archives are still around, but we did.

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Speaker 2: They're still around.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm afraid sometimes about what's on there, but the

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Speaker 1: kind of streaming spin off of films bottying Matt and

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Speaker 1: I did for years and it was a pleasure. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: That still may be the most clever thing I ever

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Speaker 2: came up with SVU streaming video unit.

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Speaker 1: It was unrelated, unrelated to other franchises for I legal reasons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So tell us about your relationship to the movie Tangerine.

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Speaker 2: When do you remember seeing it for the first time.

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Speaker 2: What was your reaction?

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Speaker 1: So I was trying. I must have seen it at

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Speaker 1: Sundance where it had its premiere, but I was you know,

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Speaker 1: now that I've outsourced all of my memory to social media,

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Speaker 1: and then when social media subsequently turned evil deleted all

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Speaker 1: of my archives, I basically don't have any record of

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Speaker 1: that anymore. So I don't think I saw it at

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Speaker 1: the premiere. I think I saw it one of the

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Speaker 1: later screenings. But I saw at least one or two

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Speaker 1: times after that before it came out, just because it

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Speaker 1: was a movie that just kept running through my head

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Speaker 1: in that way. You know, there are some movies that

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Speaker 1: are great and then you know, but also there are

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Speaker 1: some movies that you're great, and also you just keep

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Speaker 1: like like they get suck in your head, like a song,

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Speaker 1: which is I think the case with this one in particular.

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Speaker 1: There were just multiple scenes that I just couldn't And

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Speaker 1: it's funny, I haven't seen it for years now. This

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Speaker 1: is the first time I've seen it in years, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, wow, I just it's so imprinted on

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Speaker 1: my brain, like no surprises, Like I remember so many

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Speaker 1: of those scenes just so vividly.

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Speaker 2: Well, we might get into that a little deeper some

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Speaker 2: of those scenes, but what were one or two of

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Speaker 2: them in particular that were imprinted on you?

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Speaker 1: Well, the beginning, certainly, I think it's just like it

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Speaker 1: starts like it's almost like you're poise at the top

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Speaker 1: of a slope on skis, you know, and as soon

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Speaker 1: as like the story starts, you just like it's just

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Speaker 1: in constant motion and the momentum is incredible.

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Speaker 4: I've been told you this is gonna happen. Ah man chee.

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Speaker 4: That's why they're called trade. Do them just as dirty

430
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 4: as they do us here. It is all about our hustle,

431
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: and that's it. What are you plotting?

432
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: Seawan Baker has made multiple films about sex work, and

433
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: I think there is something about his interest in that

434
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 1: in particular, about as the characters kind of fight over

435
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: at the end of the debate about what counter is

436
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: real or not, which is of course never clear cut.

437
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: And I think it extends beyond sex work into things

438
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: about like, you know, does it is your gig singing

439
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: a real gig if you are the one paying for it?

440
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: Is like what is your family real if you are

441
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: also like sustaining a secret that you and your wife

442
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: just don't talk about, you know. Like, I think that

443
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: that kind of recurring interest that Shawn Baker explores through

444
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: sex work is something good, is really interesting, and I

445
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: think handled in this very open and humane but also

446
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: like very empathetic way.

447
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I described it maybe when we were

448
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: talking on the show recently, Adam, But he seems to

449
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 3: approach these characters for their humanity first and their circumstances second.

450
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 3: And circumstances definitely matter, especially economically often, but they're not

451
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 3: how we come to meet the characters or come to

452
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 3: know them. That it's almost like a little bit in

453
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: the background thinking of scenes. Can we just jump right

454
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 3: to talk about the ending because it's fresh for us? Absolutely,

455
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 3: I think this is a Baker hallmark. Are the endings

456
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 3: for almost all of his films and these little saving

457
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 3: grace notes where all of a sudden you realize, oh,

458
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 3: this is now a Sean Baker movie. Because this happened.

459
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 3: I think, as Adam mentioned, I finally took the time

460
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: to see some of the earlier ones, and I think Takeout,

461
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: which was not his debut, but the first that's available.

462
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: Rough film, very good, but has an absolute grace note

463
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: of an ending, and can debate a Nora. I think

464
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: a Nora has one as well. I think the Florida

465
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 3: Project has one absolutely right for sure what's real? Though

466
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: you're coming about what's real. It's not speaking of the

467
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: Florida Project that ending, but let's talk now about Tangerine,

468
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: and it almost brings tears to my eyes, that ending

469
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: because of the precipice that we've been on. I think,

470
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: as you very well describe the beginning and then where

471
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: it leaves us, and that's the one I remember often

472
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 3: among other scenes, but I forget how much time it

473
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: gives to the other characters, you know, Dina and the

474
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: cab driver too. He spreads it out, lets them sit

475
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 3: in their lack of resolve, but then brings us to

476
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: this again grace note of resolve doesn't solve everything but

477
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: resolve between the two main characters. So just I'd like

478
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 3: to hear a little bit about what you think about

479
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,959
Speaker 3: Sean Baker and endings in general, but particularly this one.

480
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's great at endings. I know

481
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: some people don't. The Florida Project ending is divisive for

482
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: some people. I think it's an incredible ending. I just

483
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: like Bald the first time I saw that. I also

484
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: really like the Anora ending. I think I've had more

485
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: conversation about it and kind of maybe like about what

486
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: some people I know have gotten stuck on there. But

487
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: I think in this case, in particular, I think to

488
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: that question of what is real or not, like the friendship,

489
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: it affirms that this central friendship is real in a

490
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: world where these characters are all in really precarious situations

491
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: and are have very little that they can actually count on.

492
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: And I think there is something really wonderful about the

493
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: way that the movie does show these other two characters,

494
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: who one of which is in just as precarious a situation,

495
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: one of which isn't slightly more stable, but like that

496
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: they are so deeply lonely and adrift, and that the

497
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: two main characters, for all that they are just have

498
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: just undergone, like some horrible things do have something real

499
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: in their connection and their willingness to be there for

500
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: one another. And I think just that last shot of

501
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: them together from the outside is just really beautiful and

502
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: sweet and funny as well, Like the rapport is really

503
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: the thing that this movie revolves around.

504
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's real, is real because it is turbulent at times,

505
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: and it's flawed and it should be, but there's also real.

506
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: There's a legitimate tenderness there and we see that in

507
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: multiple ways. I haven't seen this film since the show

508
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: and since we gave it the Golden Brick, so this

509
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: was quite an experience to revisit again. And I say

510
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: experience very intentionally because to your point, Josh about the ending,

511
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: I had forgotten how much time we spent with all

512
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: of those other characters, and just as a ride that

513
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: this movie takes you on, and it feels like it, right.

514
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: His films are propulsive and they are manic at times,

515
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: but there's that sense of controlled chaos, and just like

516
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: with the Home Invasion saying in Anura, we get that

517
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: version of that at Donut time, right, and they're just

518
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: adding the layers and layers, But then what happens after

519
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: building to that? What is it the last five ten

520
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: or more minutes, All of a sudden we just get

521
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: to just exist with these characters. And if the movie

522
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: tried to maintain that all the way to the end,

523
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the film ultimately that it is.

524
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 3: You mentioned the look, which I think is also something

525
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: none of the three of us, not having seen it

526
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 3: more recently, I love to reprocess the cinematography, which was

527
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: maybe the thing this movie was known for the most

528
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: when it came out. Everyone seemed to talk about the

529
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 3: use of a mobile phone attached like a wide angle lens. Right,

530
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: Baker doing the cinematography with radium chung here And yeah,

531
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: ten years on, it's obviously not as new, maybe as striking.

532
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 3: I don't know that other films have mimiced it very much.

533
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: But how does it sit now?

534
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny, you know, when Sean Baker at Sundas,

535
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: I think was like and by the way, this film

536
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: was shot on iPhone. I think it was like the

537
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: five iPhone five five us around the time. It was

538
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: like the surprise announcement and everyone gasped, you know, and

539
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: before that There have been a few films that had

540
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: been shot on iPhones, but they had been kind of

541
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: a stunt or some of them.

542
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: Were sponsored like more self conscious.

543
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some found footage horror films which I

544
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: think is like, you know, kind of built into the format.

545
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: Or Parksonwook had done like a short that I think

546
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: was sponsored by a mobile company. This is the first

547
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: film that I can remember seeing that was shot on

548
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: an iPhone in a way that the point was not

549
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: that it was shot on an iPhone, right like it

550
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: he uh has always said that he did that for

551
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: budgetary reasons. The attachment, the lens attachment was like something

552
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: that a company had on Kickstarter, Like it was still

553
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: they were really just like starting out. But that's allowed

554
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: it to kind of shoot in the kind of wider

555
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: aspect ratio and the stabilizer because otherwise, you know, the

556
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: iPhone is jellery around. But I think if you think

557
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: it looks great, you know, I think that there is

558
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: also something about there's like a bit of familiarity. Even

559
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: with all of the kind of things they did to

560
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: make the image we'rek kind of cinematic, there is still

561
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: like a bit of the familiarity to some things we're

562
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: used to now that we're you know, constantly having little

563
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: cameras that we're carrying around that it looks but cinematic,

564
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: but also has that kind of like mediacy, you know,

565
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: of of something that like of a look that we

566
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: all have access to that gives it, I think, a

567
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: bit more mobility. It gives it a bit more immediacy.

568
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: And I love the color, you know. I think Shaan

569
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: Baker has said that he previously used to kind of

570
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: drain some of the color out, and I think like

571
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: with the idea that that is the look of realism,

572
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: right is, somehow it's like a little dingier, And in

573
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: this they kind of amped the colors up. It's like

574
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: it's got this really kind of amazing, richer like saturated look.

575
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: And I just I think that that tendency in a

576
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: lot of not just movies, but the idea that like

577
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: to capture and depict people who are in marginalized situations,

578
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: like miserableism is the mode right like that you kind

579
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: of like have to treat it very seriously, which ends

580
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: up kind of draining the characters of like joy, like

581
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: any humor. And I think this film kind of is

582
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: a great retort to that, while also treating their circumstances

583
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: very seriously. Did you at least give me a Christmas present?

584
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: Well, I mean like like yeah, like I get our

585
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 3: gift is like need runnish, like saving money like make

586
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: Because I know he was getting out today.

587
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,239
Speaker 1: I was, well, I was gonna do surprise you.

588
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: Was going to take you to Roscoe tomorrow and maybe

589
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: like like a nice Christmas dinner, like I thought that

590
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: would be special.

591
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 4: What you know, I feel you, but I got you one.

592
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: I think you're like it.

593
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: Actually I was gonna bring up Dinah again. I feel

594
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: like for this entire Q and A, we should call

595
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: her by the wrong name, like Dana Denise, which which

596
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: one is it? But it is Dinah. A perfect example

597
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: of that. To support that, right, is that ending where

598
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: she's actually miserable in that moment, and and what do

599
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: we get? We get the shot that that echoes and

600
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: makes the connection explicit between Redzick, which is the Christmas

601
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: lights and then the lights that are strung along the

602
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: wall that she's walking on. That that it doesn't make

603
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: it glorious, It doesn't make it all the sudden luxurious,

604
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: or it elevates her experience, but it does does not

605
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: force us or allow us to like just wallow in

606
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: it either, right, and it makes it beautiful.

607
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: In that moment exactly. That's the needle that Baker is

608
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: able to thread, at least for me, in all of

609
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: these settings. And I think maybe Tangerine stood out so

610
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: much because and was a bit of a leap for him,

611
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: because it kind of perfected something he was toying with.

612
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: It's interesting that you say he's mentioned how previously he

613
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: drained color a little bit and here it's bursting. So

614
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 3: the needle he's threading it's esthetic and also philosophical. It's

615
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: that these are seedy, rough places, but you turn the

616
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: corner and if the sun is hitting a donut sign

617
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: the right way, there's beauty. And to your point, Adam,

618
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: there is a way to shine that that feels false,

619
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: and there's a way to dinge it up that also

620
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: feels false. That's the miserableism. So what Baker's able to do,

621
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: and I think the cinematography here is key to that.

622
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: The iPhone somehow is finding a way in between so

623
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: it has both enough of that reality. But then whether

624
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: it's the eye of him the other cinematographer, whether it's

625
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: their eye catching things or the color saturation. They're like, okay,

626
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: but we also have this hint of beauty where you

627
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: don't expect it, and I don't know many other filmmakers

628
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: who are able to find that so consistently in their stories.

629
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: We can talk just about the pacing too, a little

630
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: bit more, the fact that every time the camera comes

631
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: back to Cindy, we are in full on. It's following her.

632
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: It's quick cuts, it's quick movements, right. But even when

633
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: we do settle down for a second at the bus stop,

634
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: the camera is still it's a static shot, but there's

635
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: nothing still about that moment, right, it's the little fidgets.

636
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: We're hyper aware of everything. That's the roller coaster that's

637
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: going on in her mind. He wants us to pay

638
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: more attention to what's going on in her head, the

639
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: individual personal psychological experience, kind of emotional ride. I'll use

640
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: that word again, that she's on in that moment as

641
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: opposed to the music amplifying it.

642
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 3: For she's making a choice. It felt like to me.

643
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and I love that. Also, she's like I

644
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: choose chaos, right, Like like I'm going to I'm goorady

645
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: to commit to this.

646
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: Full thing, and then the music follows her exactly.

647
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: Sean had said that when he first, you know, was

648
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: scripting the film, he said, like, don't budget for music.

649
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to use any music. And the music

650
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: is so what the music he did end up using

651
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: is so important to kind of just how the film

652
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: moves from that very first the first time it kicks in,

653
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: it just like it does like kind to propel you

654
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: along but absol I think like kind of classical music

655
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: feeds into the idea of also, like you know, this

656
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: is a really richly cinematic treatment of these characters. Like

657
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: these characters are not getting the kind of like pseudo documentary,

658
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, like like this they are big main characters,

659
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, and in and insist on being treated that

660
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: waykind of like it even when life kind of doesn't

661
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: give them a lot of agency over their situation, you know.

662
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: And I think there is something about Cindy being like

663
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: I am going to choose this drama, you know, and

664
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: clearly something that she has done time many times before.

665
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: But because also there's a kind of like power to

666
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: that and being like this is the latest installment of

667
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: my life.

668
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, the car wash scene is another scene we do

669
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 2: have to talk about a memorable scene from this film,

670
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: and we can get into why. But I do know Allison,

671
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: that you wrote an article at the time for a

672
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: BuzzFeed where you talked to Sean about this. It went

673
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: into great detail about it. I'd love for you to

674
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: share with the audience what your takeaways from that conversation.

675
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think what really strikes me about

676
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: that scene is not even necessarily the car wash so

677
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: I love I mean like the kind of mundane beauty

678
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: of that, the kind of eroticism of it that like

679
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: just holding on for like the long shot, you know,

680
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: as the kind of car wash is going on, and

681
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: then like the timing of it, where as the guy's

682
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: come to kind of clean and they're like finishing up. Yes, yes,

683
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: it is incredible, But I I what is always stuck

684
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 1: with me is are the lead up to that where

685
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: Alexandra is like, it's aren't you a site first? Sorry,

686
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Like it's like so happy to see him. And I

687
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: think that kind of that is something that I think

688
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: Sean Baker is very good at. Are these like and

689
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: I think without romanticizing it, are these like bits of

690
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: like camaraderie that can come up when you're just young

691
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: in moments, yes, when you're like these people have just

692
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: spent time together, and like it may be very temporary

693
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: and you know, you don't want to rely on it

694
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: too much, but there is this kind of like warmth

695
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: to do it. And I think that it really emphasizes

696
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: how small this world actually is, that they're all kind

697
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: of moving in within this much larger Los Angeles ecosystem.

698
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: And I I think I'd mentioned this to you, but like,

699
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: there is a documentary called The Great Happiness Space. Has

700
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: anyone seen it? It's not a very it's like a

701
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: two thousand and six documentary, if it's I think unfortunately

702
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to see right now, and you

703
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: can watch like a low res version on YouTube, which

704
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: is not ideal. But it's a documentary about a host

705
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: bar in Osaka, which is where all of the people work.

706
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 1: There are men and the customers are women who come

707
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: in and pay a lot of money to basically spend

708
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: time flirting with these guys and having a kind of

709
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: pseudo boyfriend relationship with them. And it's something that he's

710
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: it's a film he's brought up a lot. There's actually

711
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: a Bathta talk he did about it. You can find

712
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: the transcript online and it's great. But I think kind

713
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: of plays into a bit of that idea of like

714
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: that nebulous space in between being like this is a

715
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: purely transactional relationship and this is like a real relationship,

716
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: whatever that means. And I think that that scene really

717
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: emphasizes that the most, you know, where you're like, these

718
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: two people do have some genuine affection for one another. Also,

719
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: like they are in this transactional kind of space.

720
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: It's real because think about what they've they've both just

721
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: gone through. It isn't romanticized to your point, because she's

722
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: just gone through the drama of everything with Cindy that

723
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: morning and then with that trick that went wrong, horribly wrong,

724
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 2: and for him he's had the puke experience. It's right.

725
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: And so for them to find the comfort in the expected,

726
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: the transactional, as you said, like what they know they

727
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: can count on drama free in that moment is something

728
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: they're both looking for, and so they are a sight

729
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: for sore eyes.

730
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: For each other. One quick thing I noticed during the

731
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: car wash scene this time, and which I do think

732
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: in this film is the ceed beauty moment. That's where,

733
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: you know, just the the abstract imagery on the windshield

734
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 3: while that's going on. But I noticed this time there's

735
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: so many references to Christmas throughout that maybe this is

736
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: just how it happened. But the fabric of the tiresh

737
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 3: they're all red and green, red and green and yellow,

738
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: and it was all these Christmas colors like blood need

739
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 3: together while this is going on.

740
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even just you know, I've used this term

741
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: a lot already talking about like sort of the roller coaster,

742
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 2: but think about when the dryer starts and the whole

743
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 2: thing is this build up. It's almost like it's it

744
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: is mundane, it's a car wash, and yet it feels

745
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: like they're about to take off. It's a it's a

746
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 2: rocket right in that moment. And we can maybe match

747
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: that to what's actually, you know, happening. And they're in

748
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: that scene for at least at least one of the characters,

749
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: So let's stick on that character.

750
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 3: Actor Karen Karagulian. Karen's probably how you pronounced it, so good.

751
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: He's amazing.

752
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of Baker's secret weapon, like secret MVP in

753
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: his cast. So he had a bit part in Takeout,

754
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: and then a bigger part in Starlet and a Noora.

755
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: He's the family fixer if you didn't recognize him, the

756
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: state side fixer, and that performance there captures something similar.

757
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 3: What's here is like you don't know what to make

758
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: of this guy. You feel for him, but you also

759
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 3: are like, oh body, bad choice. In other instances he

760
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: has a roughness, and then in Prince of Broadway, where

761
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: he runs a store, this really comes out a gentleness

762
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 3: that you don't expect. And yeah, somehow he helps Baker

763
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 3: thread that needle with his performances. But yeah, what do

764
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: you what do you make of him here?

765
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: In Yeah, well I think you know. Yeah, he's been

766
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: in like I think everyone except for that first film,

767
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: He's been in every one of Baker's films. And he

768
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: definitely was not just like he didn't have just a

769
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: big part in Anura. I think he helped kind he

770
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: was Ever from the beginning, he was like the person

771
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: around whom shaw Maker started building Anora initially eight so,

772
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: which kind of speaks to how close their working relationship is.

773
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: I just love how much also beyond just like the

774
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: peaks into the Armenian community that we get through through

775
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: that character that we He often plays his character who

776
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: is has this home life and then another life, and

777
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: there is this like divide. You know, there's just a

778
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: wall there in Anura. I think you see him initially

779
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: at like a baptism, right like, and that gets called

780
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: away to, you know, by his oligarch bosses to get

781
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: a forceful divorce for their son. I love him as

782
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: the embodiment of that character who has just like an

783
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: expected home life and then this like totally different, you know,

784
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: other secret life, which I think is like certainly as

785
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: opposed to other characters who just live in this world altogether,

786
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: I think it is representative of a lot of the

787
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: ways in which these economies are propped up right by

788
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: people who participate in them but also have don't kind

789
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: of declare any ownership over them, right, it's by all

790
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: of this money that is kind of never talked about.

791
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: But I think he also just has such an amazing face,

792
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, like he's so funny. He has this like

793
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: incredibly like there are so many beats where his just

794
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: reactions are just like funny until themselves. And yeah, he

795
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: can be a very warm presence, and I think I mean,

796
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: like him sitting by the Christmas tree at the end,

797
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: is just this such a poignant image and such a

798
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: sad you know where you're just you understand also how

799
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: how kind of like trapped he feels in this particular

800
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: in particular with like his mother in law and this

801
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 1: home life. But also there is no kind of way

802
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: he can reconcile, you know, the the kind of separate

803
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: parts of his life.

804
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: And you have to trust your actor to give them

805
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: a scene like that. It's wordless, the can on him

806
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: the whole time. You know, it's in her cut with

807
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 3: the other characters, so it's not like this sustained scene,

808
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: but still the way he underplays that is exactly what

809
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: it needs.

810
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: Can we just talk about some other moments that are

811
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: our favorites in this film, some other real striking moments

812
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 2: of tenderness that I'd forgotten about. When Alexandra finally does

813
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 2: leave walk Away, I think it's leaving Nash's joint, and

814
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: the way Baker holds on her deliberating for quite a while.

815
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: You know, she's so intent on getting away from her.

816
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: She certainly is justified in getting away from her, like

817
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: she's been threatening it. She's finally going to make good

818
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: on it. And then she gets to the corner, and

819
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: while she does leave, the fact that she has to

820
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: stop and think about it and even look back just

821
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: tells you that how hard this is for her to

822
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 2: leave her friend behind. And then later you know, again

823
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: I didn't remember this very well. I thought, Oh, man,

824
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: when she finds out it's seven oh eight, and she's like,

825
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: we're going the whole all day long has been to

826
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: confront Chester with Dinah and Justice. She's on the verge

827
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: of it. She realizes that she'll compromise her friend in

828
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: her friendship in certain ways. They both will that there

829
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: are certain lines they won't cross, and she will not

830
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: cross the line of missing this performance.

831
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: I also love the beat in the bathroom where she

832
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: decides to do Dinah's makeup after having been like tugging

833
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: this woman run by the hair for like half an hour.

834
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's again like one of those moments where

835
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: you're like, well, now they're not like best friends now

836
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: or anything, you like, Like, the movie never over sells

837
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: those beats, but like that moment of just tenderness there.

838
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: I think also it emphasizes how how much for Cindy

839
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: kind of like keeping up this pace is a way

840
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: to run away from herself and the kind of the

841
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: things that she's not kind of she's trying not to

842
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: think about with regard to Chester, with regard to just

843
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: like a lot of factors in her life, and I

844
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: think to see her be capable of also this moment

845
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: of tenderness is really nice. Yeah. I think I love

846
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: the little the in Doughnut Time towards the end, when

847
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: the how the allegiances shift depending on who shows up,

848
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: you know, like the looks people are exchanging. I love

849
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: the look between Alexandra and Dinah when they're watching Cindy

850
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: and Chester kiss, you know, like just exchange this like

851
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 1: oh God. Like I think, like there are so many

852
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: wonderful beats like that where characters just have this moment

853
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: of temporary like can you believe this?

854
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: Or just yeah yeah, And that's the same Sean Baker magic.

855
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: I suppose as we talk about the Anora scene, the

856
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: memorable home invasion scene, it's that sense of controlled chaos

857
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: where it seems like it is completely out of control,

858
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: and yet you know, all of those beats were so

859
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: precisely planned, and how you balance that and still make

860
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: it feel like it's all unfolding right in front of you,

861
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: almost like a documentary of course, with the handheld camera.

862
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: Right yeah, And I think, like you know, some thing

863
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: that he is. He just has such an appreciation for

864
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: the conversations that people have when they're killing time. I think,

865
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: even like what the cops are talking about what seems

866
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: to be like a weird date right.

867
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: With someone who Chester is talking about conspiracy theories?

868
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 3: Right, what else are you going to talk?

869
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: Exactly right? You have a lot of times with people,

870
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: whether you know, you're just like hanging out, and those

871
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: are the things you're you wander around to. And I

872
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: appreciate how much his movies like love those little beats

873
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: of just being like, you know, those little cul de

874
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: sacs that the characters end up in.

875
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 3: I was, I was surprised at the movie's willingness. I'd

876
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 3: forgotten its willingness to let Cindy be really mean, which

877
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 3: I think is important and it's part of that authenticity

878
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 3: that we've been talking about, as when she, you know,

879
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 3: knocks the plate of food out of the Santa without

880
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 3: a beard in his hands, you know, I mean, I

881
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: think we like people gasped right when she did that,

882
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 3: and maybe that's because it's her. It was her first

883
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 3: demonstration of something like cruelty. Maybe something came earlier. But oh,

884
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 3: in line for food, the woman who says, you know,

885
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: I've been cleaned for thirty a day and she's.

886
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 2: Like, does not care?

887
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: Does it not? Yeah? Like that like this is like

888
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: the taking somewhere elving in that woman's life, that like

889
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: what she's going through.

890
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: As and just move along and Baker shows her pain.

891
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: We see her reaction to it, right, and how important

892
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: is that in that moment? Closing thoughts, there's anything else

893
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: about the film that you really want to share and

894
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 2: maybe a topic I'll throw out. I think we've answered it.

895
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: I think we've answered it pretty well. But watching the film,

896
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this, the way we talk about

897
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 2: we have talked about Sean Baker, the way many people

898
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: who admire his work talk about him, and they do

899
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: use those words like humanity and empathy and the authenticity

900
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: and the fact that he renders these characters in these situations. Josh,

901
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: you expressed it very well, right, It's not about their circumstances,

902
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: but he does it in a way that seems judgment free.

903
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: But like all the best filmmakers. There's a certain alchemy

904
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: to it that I don't know, you know, if you

905
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: were if someone came to you and said, well, I

906
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: feel the same way about these sub subcultures or humanity

907
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: as Sean Baker does, and I want to make those

908
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: kinds of films. What's the formula? First of all, it's

909
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: a silly question because there's no formula in art. But

910
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: if we were going to try to answer it, what

911
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: would you say? I think, again, we've talked about a

912
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 2: lot of these things. I think for me, the biggest

913
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: thing Number one on my list might be just the

914
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: fact that to capture these subcultures where maybe some people

915
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: would look at them dismissively or judge them, and he

916
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: finds not only beauty in him but comedy in them

917
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: seems to me maybe the most sort of transgressive or

918
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: subversive part of it. But what about for you, Well, I.

919
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: Think it's also that he is willing to be like,

920
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: this is going to be guided by all, like including

921
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, like everyone in the movie. This is not

922
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: going to be like, this is my idea and this

923
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: is how it's going to go, and you can be

924
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: part of it if you want. But like he you know,

925
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: when he went into this movie, he was like, I

926
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: think they had the knew they wanted it to have

927
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: an end with a big Climaxit don't at time, and

928
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: oh and that the basic idea of like maybe like uh,

929
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: you know, someone trying to track down who they thought

930
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: there their boyfriend was like cheating on them with But

931
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: that's you know, everything else was built with the participation

932
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: of their actors and with participation of people from the community.

933
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: They did a lot of talking to people. Sean has

934
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: done that for all of the movie his movies. And

935
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: I think that idea of being like this is not

936
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: my voice, this is I am the person guiding this,

937
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: but it is built by the voices of the people

938
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm putting on screen is hugely important. But yeah, I

939
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: think the comedy is big too, you know. I think, uh,

940
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: that that idea that everyone's life is filled with you know,

941
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: drama and comedy and and kind of joy and despair,

942
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: and that there is not like one you don't you

943
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: shouldn't flatten them in order to kind of like in

944
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: this effort to protect what you feel are their circumstances.

945
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think it was I

946
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: can't remember which of the two leads said this, but

947
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: apparently like when Sean had approached them because neither had

948
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: acted before in a film about like making a movie,

949
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: they had said, like, you have to promise that you'll

950
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: show that it's brutal like and that also this is

951
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: a real movie. It's gonna be entertaining. You gotta make

952
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: us laugh. And I think that those two things come

953
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: through like perfectly and are both like really fair things

954
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: to ask.

955
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 4: Merry Christmas, Eve, bitch. Are we supposed to share it?

956
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: Yes, we're supposed to share a fish.

957
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 4: I'm broke, happy man, I've been great.

958
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 3: You probably got ten fish.

959
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 4: It's an astrog has been kicking and the only thing

960
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 4: that hasn't broken down with these arms, everything else on.

961
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: My body looks good. Try look like the real thing.

962
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 4: So I got some good news to tell you.

963
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm what I mean, keeping his secret about me and Chester. Whoa,

964
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: I know what it is.

965
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 4: You're breaking up with him? Thank god.

966
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'd agree with the comedy point, and

967
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 3: the co authorship is key. And then the third thing

968
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 3: I'd add is I don't sense that any of his

969
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: movies aim to offer a solution or even maybe assume

970
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 3: that one is needed. Yeah, exactly, and perhaps perhaps that's it,

971
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: and so, yeah, that's different. He doesn't come in as

972
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 3: a fixer of sorts.

973
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not prescriptivist.

974
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. And just to rep up on that point about

975
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: co authorship, my understanding is it's not just about saving

976
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: money shooting with iPhones because you have a limited budget,

977
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: but making sure you're spending that money in a way

978
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: that allows you to pay your cast, to pay for

979
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: all the extras that you need in this film to

980
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 2: be able to shoot in certain locations. It's just reallocating

981
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: that into the film itself. And if you can make

982
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: an iPhone, you know, look as good as he does,

983
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 2: why why not approach it that way? Alison Wilmore, thank

984
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: you so much for this converse else really insightful stuff.

985
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone who came out to this first screening.

986
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: Three more we'll see hopefully most of you back for

987
00:50:54,360 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 2: father fond gility you got from March first at film

988
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 2: spotting fests. That was us In conversation with Vultures Alison

989
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: Wilmore about Sean Baker's Tangerine and Josh. I have to

990
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: say that was a highlight. There were so many highlights

991
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: of Film Spotting Fest. But that conversation for me was

992
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: really eye opening. The screening was eye opening because even

993
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 2: though we both were high on this film and we

994
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: did pick it because of our very favorable reaction to

995
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: it that led to a golden brick when back in

996
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, I hadn't seen it since awarding it. The

997
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: golden brick didn't have a chance with all the logistics

998
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: going into Film Spotting Fest to rewatch it ahead of it,

999
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 2: and really just fell under the spell of those characters,

1000
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: their relationship and Baker's filmmaking. It all kind of came

1001
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: back to me, and honestly, I think I had an

1002
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: even stronger reaction to it this time around, really recognizing

1003
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: the achievement that Tangerine is. And then of course Alison

1004
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: just gets up there on stage with no notes in

1005
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: front of her at all. It just starts pulling out

1006
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: wonderful insights about the movie.

1007
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: They brought a lot of great background and you know,

1008
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: this is a comedy, it's and sometimes that can be

1009
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: easy to forget. I know when I first saw Tangerine,

1010
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: it was I believe, on a year end screener, or

1011
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 3: maybe it was a midyear screener, but I distinctly remember

1012
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: watching it on my couch. It's a different experience to

1013
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: be in a packed theater where the farce of this story.

1014
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 3: It's not the only thing going on here, but the

1015
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 3: farce of the story plays out as Baker and his

1016
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 3: cast intended it. You know, these are very funny characters,

1017
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 3: very funny performers, and what a delight to hear the

1018
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 3: audience responding to that.

1019
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: Tangerine is currently streaming on Max and via vod. If

1020
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: like me, you haven't seen it in ten years, highly

1021
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 2: recommend checking it out again.

1022
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 3: Listening is the number one thing you can do to

1023
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 3: support an independently produced show like film Spotting. There are

1024
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 3: a couple more things you can also do. You could

1025
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: take a minute to give us a rating or a

1026
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Doesn't matter if you're

1027
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 3: a first time listener or you've been listening for all

1028
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: twenty years. Every new review helps us reach new listeners.

1029
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: Another way to support us, you can join the Film

1030
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 3: Spotting Family at film spottingfamily dot com. We want to

1031
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 3: thank family plus member Josh There, also known as the

1032
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 3: Forgetful film critic in Dallas. I've had a chance to

1033
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 3: meet Josh. Great guy if you want to meet him,

1034
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 3: at least on letterbox. His handles pretty simple FFC.

1035
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: And I love when things come together like this. I

1036
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 2: don't think Sam was aware of this when he picked

1037
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: Josh out of the family Hat to feature during the

1038
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: segment this week, but just this past weekend, maybe just

1039
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 2: about twenty four hours ago, as we're recording this, I

1040
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: saw that over on his website forgetfulfilmcritic dot com, Josh

1041
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 2: had published a recap of his visit to Film Spotting Fest.

1042
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: He was there, and he was a little shy and

1043
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: introverted and didn't want to bother us and didn't come

1044
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: up and introduce himself. But he's certainly a listener that

1045
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 2: we've been familiar with over the years. He has set

1046
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: us some food that I mostly enjoyed that came to

1047
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 2: the Film Spotting po box Josh, if I remember correctly,

1048
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: and we've certainly featured his emails over the years.

1049
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: And that's it's so funny that he did that for

1050
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 3: Film Spotting Fest. I didn't realize he did something quite similar.

1051
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 3: I met Josh at Ebert interrupt Us when we did

1052
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 3: Jaws a couple of years ago. And he was kind

1053
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: enough to do a write up of his experience there too,

1054
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: So so yeah, thank you, thank you Josh for reporting

1055
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 3: back after all this stuff.

1056
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 2: We will include a link to his recap over in

1057
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: our show notes. Josh says, I started listening to Film

1058
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: Spotting sometime around twenty twelve ish. I found it because

1059
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 2: at the time I had a mind numbing and awful

1060
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 2: data entry job, so I was looking for a movie

1061
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: related podcasts that could anesthetize my drudgery. The Great Wolf

1062
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 2: of Wall Street Brawl of twenty thirteen stands out vividly

1063
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: in my mind as an early favorite. It might have

1064
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: led to my decision to go back and start with

1065
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: Cinecast episode one. It took me two or three years

1066
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: to clear through the backlog. I'm a runner who has

1067
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: two full marathons and about a dozen half marathons on

1068
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: my belt, so those training runs helped me knock out

1069
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 2: a bunch of the old episodes. I'd listened to every episode,

1070
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: but I've fallen behind. At the moment I'm stuck in

1071
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: May twenty twenty three, I'm hoping to be completely caught

1072
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: up by the end of this year. We wish you

1073
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: luck Josh a favorite review or segment, so this is

1074
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 2: one of those. One for Josh, one for Adam bits

1075
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: apparently he says top five manimals baby oh yeah, and

1076
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 2: then the top five tattoos We'd get was also pretty

1077
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: great a review we got wrong. No such thing as

1078
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 2: a wrong opinion, but I strongly disagreed with the Josh's

1079
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: take on Joker, and I'm in Josh's corner significantly more

1080
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: than I'm in Adam, So there again tat people with

1081
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: that one his letterbox top four Cooyas Scotzi Playtime, Sorry

1082
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: to Bother You. In David Lynch's Blue Velvet, he revisited

1083
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 2: a favorite recently, heavy Metal, a movie that gets the

1084
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 2: rare sub three star rating and a heart on letterbox

1085
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: for me, see, I can't bring myself to do that

1086
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: if it doesn't get at least three, if it gets

1087
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 2: two and a half, no heart can't give it, the heart,

1088
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 2: can't kill it, the heart. No, just random film or filmmaker.

1089
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: He loves Vanya on forty second Street. He credits The

1090
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 2: Shawshank Redemption as the movie that helped him to become

1091
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: a cinephile. A conventional answer, to be sure, but it's

1092
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: the movie that got me absolutely hooked. And finally a

1093
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 2: book about movies or movie making. Wasn't familiar with this one,

1094
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: now really eager to check it out. City of Nets

1095
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: by Otto Friedrich. Not a book necessarily about movies or

1096
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 2: movie making per se, but a portrait of Hollywood in

1097
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: the nineteen forties. That is the best book about Hollywood

1098
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: I've ever read.

1099
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 3: What a great title. City of Nets.

1100
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, our thanks to Josh once again for joining the

1101
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: family and for all of those years of listening and

1102
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: listening while running. In addition to keeping us doing what

1103
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 2: we're doing, your support comes with perks. You get to

1104
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: listen early in ad free. You get our weekly newsletter.

1105
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 2: You get to partake in exclusive opportunities like being part

1106
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 2: of the Film Spotting Family discord. You get monthly bonus shows,

1107
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: including an April draft that will be coming with a

1108
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 2: Film Spotting Listener. We'll see who that Film Spotting Listener

1109
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: is based on how Film Spotting Madness plays out. You

1110
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: can learn more at Film Spottingfamily dot com.

1111
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 6: Make every dollar work harder with the US banks smartly Suite.

1112
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Speaker 6: also unlock exclusive perks like tailored rates and rewards that

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Speaker 6: we are stronger together. That's the power of US Member FDIC.

1120
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Speaker 5: This episode is.

1121
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: Brought to you by Peloton.

1122
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 5: Break through the busiest time of year with the brand

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Speaker 7: All the things that I've seen, I mean it was

1130
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 7: saying old demes, no ghosts, no man.

1131
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 3: Deal. Now.

1132
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: That's from the trailer for Ryan Coogler Sinners, which comes

1133
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: to theaters this weekend. It's said in the Jim Crow

1134
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: era South, Michael B. Jordan plays twin brothers who return

1135
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: home to find a supernatural evil awaiting them. We are

1136
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 2: going to talk about this next week on the show.

1137
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: But what's the ruppus? Have you heard any good buzz

1138
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 2: about Sinners so far?

1139
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I avoid reviews, but it was

1140
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: hard to avoid the parade of star ratings on letterboxed

1141
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: after some early press screening for this, and I'm gonna

1142
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: have to dig my head put my head in the

1143
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 3: sand for a little while longer. Couldn't make a press

1144
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 3: screening of it myself, so we'll have to catch up

1145
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 3: with it on opening weekend. But yeah, seems seems to

1146
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: be fairly well received.

1147
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 2: So okay, that's good to know. I hadn't seen that

1148
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 2: parade of star ratings yet. I did see the trailer

1149
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 2: for the first time in full before catching The Battle

1150
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: of Wallace Island this weekend, and certainly I'm intrigued. Also

1151
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 2: next week, our Tarkowsky marathon will continue with nineteen sixty

1152
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 2: six's Andre rube Lev. Josh, it's only about twice as

1153
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 2: long as both of the movies we watch this week.

1154
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: Are you prepared?

1155
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 3: It's true, this is true. I am prepared. Though I

1156
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 3: turned it on the big screen. I couldn't resist. Yeah,

1157
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 3: University of Chicago's doc Films. I think it was in January.

1158
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 3: I had it showing one weekend and I was just like,

1159
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 3: especially knowing how daunting Tarkowski can be, I was like,

1160
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: at least let me, let me get a head start

1161
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 3: on this one on the big screen. But I will

1162
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 3: absolutely be giving it an their look before we have

1163
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 3: our conversation.

1164
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 2: It will also be the film Spotting Madness final. Our

1165
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: final four will be down to just two. And yes,

1166
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: you can vote in that final four now film Spotting

1167
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: dot Net slash Madness.

1168
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 3: I did want to give a quick thanks, Adam to

1169
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 3: the folks who came, the listeners who showed up for

1170
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 3: our Boulder meet up last week. At the end of

1171
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 3: Ebert interrupt us out there, I was still still recovering,

1172
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: shall I say. I was on the other side, but

1173
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 3: I wasn't about to to shut the place down with listeners.

1174
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: This year, I was able to buy the first round.

1175
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 3: You'll be happy to hear. So look for that. I

1176
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,479
Speaker 3: saw the bill, Yeah, look for that on the credit.

1177
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: It was a yeah. It was a respectful group. It

1178
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 3: always is out in Boulder. I mean, it's nice having

1179
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 3: done this so many years now to you know, catch

1180
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 3: up with like Bob Scott, Eric, I think they've been

1181
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: they've been coming for a number of years. Kyle and

1182
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 3: Stu also i've seen there before. Josh and Jaden yep,

1183
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 3: I think they were there possibly last year or the

1184
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 3: year before. And then got to meet some new folks

1185
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 3: so Ryan, Christina, Andrea. Yeah, we were able to get

1186
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: in some good some good conversation before I had to leave.

1187
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 3: I tried to survey them about, you know, what they'd

1188
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 3: like to see improved on the show, and really really

1189
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 3: no complaints, nothing, you know, nothing to report back to.

1190
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 3: They did say that they would like to have Film

1191
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 3: Spotting Fest every year. I know we've been talking about

1192
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 3: that primarily for their own convenience, they admitted, you know,

1193
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 3: because not because they would come every year, but you

1194
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 3: know that increases the chances it would work out for me,

1195
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 3: so got it. Yeah, But yeah, thanks to all those

1196
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 3: folks who showed up. Always fun to do meetups. I'm

1197
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 3: gonna throw this out there. It's kind of crazy in

1198
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 3: terms of meetups, but you're trying to want help me,

1199
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 3: just thinking we do like to see how far flung

1200
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: our meetups can be. That's right, and I thought I

1201
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 3: might be able to have the record when I did

1202
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 3: an Oslo meet up a number of years ago, and you,

1203
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 3: you know, smugly informed me, Well, you know, before you

1204
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 3: joined the show, I once had a meet up up

1205
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 3: in Helsinki. That's right, you know if you do your geography, yes,

1206
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 3: Helsinki is further away.

1207
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just Google mapping that because I have

1208
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: no idea.

1209
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure you check that, and.

1210
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm not good with geography.

1211
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 3: Just picture chap. I'm pretty sure that tracks. I'm going

1212
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 3: to try to one up you Adam in May if

1213
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 3: there is a film spotting listener or listeners. Really, all

1214
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 3: it takes is one in Tokyo. Debbie and I are

1215
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 3: heading out to Japan for a thirtieth anniversary trip and

1216
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 3: we will be in Tokyo May twenty two, May twenty three,

1217
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 3: May twenty four. None of those dates are actually anniversary,

1218
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 3: so Debbie said, yeah, sure, it was fun and Oslo

1219
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 3: me hanging out with you and the boys. So we'll

1220
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 3: do another one in Tokyo if you can pull it off.

1221
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 3: So if you know of anyone in Tokyo, if we

1222
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: have listeners there, that'd be kind of cool and it'd

1223
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 3: be great to at least meet up, so let us

1224
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 3: know feedback at film spotting dot net.

1225
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 2: I can confirm that we have downloads annually more than

1226
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: just a few dozen Josh in Japan, so hopefully this

1227
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: stems out. Yeah, I would love to have you beat

1228
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: my record here. I hope the Tokyo meetup goes through.

1229
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 2: Speaking of festivals in Chicago and ones that were at

1230
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 2: least tangentially involved with, the Chicago Critics Film Festival kicks

1231
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 2: off here on May second, runs May second through the eighth.

1232
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: I believe all the movies are playing at the Music Box.

1233
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 2: We'll get into this a little bit more and have

1234
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 2: some more details for you next week on the show,

1235
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 2: but definitely wanted to make sure that our audience, especially

1236
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: those of you who are in Chicago or are nearby

1237
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: and can make it that you're aware of this fest.

1238
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 2: Chicago Criticsfilmfestival dot com is where you can learn more

1239
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: and buy tickets. Tickets are available now. One movie that

1240
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: I want to single out, and when I say the title,

1241
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: it may sound familiar, Josh and listeners may recall me

1242
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: bringing this up back in January. The Zodiac Killer Project,

1243
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: a movie that played at Sundance and one in a

1244
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 2: word there and that I saw virtually via Sundance online

1245
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: and really went for That is playing at the Chicago

1246
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 2: Critics Film Festival. So a chance to see Zodiac Killer

1247
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 2: Project on the big screen as part of that fest.

1248
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: Do you recommend you see it? If you can? Again,

1249
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 2: that's Chicago Criticsfilmfestival dot com.

1250
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 3: One last bit of business here is to note what

1251
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 3: they're up to on our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show,

1252
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 3: looking at Cinema's present via its pass. They have a

1253
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 3: new pairing. They're going to look at David Cronenberg's new

1254
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 3: film The Shrouds, which comes to Chicago and elsewhere next weekend,

1255
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 3: alongside another Cronenberg film, probably my favorite Kronenberg film, actually

1256
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 3: The Fly from eighty six with Jeff Goldblum and Gina Davis.

1257
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 3: New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday

1258
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 3: and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1259
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 4: This lasting, This is madness, This is absolute madness.

1260
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 7: This is madness, madness, madness.

1261
01:04:58,240 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 3: But this is absolute madness.

1262
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 2: I'm why should you build such a thing?

1263
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 4: That is?

1264
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 5: I is spot off.

1265
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 2: Time for film spotting Madness. Our annual bracket style movie

1266
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: elimination tournament sixty four films, only one can survive, and

1267
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 2: this year we are doing the best films of the

1268
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,439
Speaker 2: twenty first century. So far, we've got your Elite eight

1269
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 2: results and the final four matchups. As we noted last week,

1270
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: the Elite eight ended up being the Elite eight, the

1271
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: top eight seeds in the tournament. So one was going

1272
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 2: against eight, two against seven, three versus six, and so on.

1273
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 2: The results, Josh, we had two blowouts. We had two

1274
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 2: very very close matchups, including one that was technically an upset.

1275
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: Let's start with the largest to smallest margin. We'll go

1276
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 2: in that order. That number one seed there will be blood.

1277
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: Paul Thomas Anderson going up against David Fincher's The Social Network.

1278
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 2: There was blood, indeed, because PTA took it with seventy

1279
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 2: two percent over the Social Network.

1280
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 3: Does that divide surprise you? I? You know, I hear

1281
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 3: from so many people who just love the Social Network,

1282
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 3: and maybe.

1283
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: Higher than I thought, a bigger margin for.

1284
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 3: Sugger margin than you thought. Yeah, me too for sure.

1285
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 3: All right, let's look what we have next. It's David

1286
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 3: Lynch's Mulholland Drive, which was a number two seed versus

1287
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 3: one car. Wise in The Mood for Love seated at

1288
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 3: number seven mulholland another fairly decisive win, sixty four percent

1289
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 3: to thirty six percent. This also surprises me.

1290
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 2: So here's where we get that technical upset. The number

1291
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 2: four seed mad Max Fury Road from George Miller versus

1292
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 2: No Country for Old Men the Khan Brothers four versus five,

1293
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: and No Country takes it much closer than the other two, Josh,

1294
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: but No Country advances fifty three to forty seven.

1295
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was a tight one even I'm trying

1296
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 3: to remember what I did predict, because I remember Fury

1297
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:11,479
Speaker 3: Road doing so well in a previous Madness, and yet

1298
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 3: the Coen Brothers. Usually when it comes to any sort

1299
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 3: of film spotting poll, you bet on the Cohen Brothers,

1300
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 3: So which way to go on? This? Not surprised at

1301
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 3: all that it was this close, with No Country for

1302
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 3: the win. All Right. Our last pairing, Michelle Gondry's Eternal

1303
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 3: Sunshine and The Spotless Mind seated at number three versus

1304
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 3: Bong June Ho's six seed Parasite. Sounds like this one

1305
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 3: started out very close, stayed close back and forth, you would, Sam,

1306
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 3: We're probably.

1307
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,919
Speaker 2: Probably really fresh fresh all the time.

1308
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 3: Just not getting anything else done.

1309
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: That's what we do.

1310
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: And man, man, did this end up close? Fifty one

1311
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 3: percent for Sunshine over Parasites?

1312
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 2: Yes, washell Gondry. What moves on? Parasite is out, Josh,

1313
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 2: And this is fifty one one in forty nine rounding up,

1314
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 2: So it was even tighter than that sounds. And I

1315
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: think there were times where maybe these were separated by

1316
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 2: only ten to fifteen votes.

1317
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 3: Oh man, we'll get to this, but I think this

1318
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: blew up my bracket.

1319
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might. It certainly didn't help your bracket. We

1320
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 2: will get to that in a moment. So the final

1321
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 2: four is set. Matchup Number one Manifest Destiny, the Battle

1322
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 2: of Seven. There will be Blood the number one seed

1323
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: up against the Kohane Brothers. No Country for Old Men

1324
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 2: the number five seed. And if we do go back

1325
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: to Madness history, you think you would be able to

1326
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 2: predict how this would come out, because in twenty nineteen

1327
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: we did the best of the two thousands, now real quick.

1328
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: The next year, twenty twenty, we did the best of

1329
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 2: the twenty tens. Parasite won that, Yeah, with the runner

1330
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 2: up being mad Max Fury wrote in twenty nineteen Best

1331
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 2: Films from two thousand to two thousand and nine. Listen

1332
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 2: to how it came out. Josh, you know that there

1333
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: will be blood one. The runner up was Eternal Sunshine

1334
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 2: of the Spotless Mind. The third place finisher was No

1335
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 2: Country for Old Men.

1336
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, yeah, And I had looked at those in

1337
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 3: trying to make my predictions, I think, I yeah, clearly

1338
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 3: I waited Parasites win over Eternal Sunshine's impressive placement.

1339
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1340
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, here we are though, We've got that Battle of

1341
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 2: seven and we've got matchup number two. Dream logic Josh.

1342
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm Aholland Drive, which was a number two seed

1343
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 3: versus Eternal Sunshine, which is seated number three. But now

1344
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 3: I'm thinking there's surprising power behind Eternal Sunshine, at least

1345
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 3: for me.

1346
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 2: And there could be a few different factors at play,

1347
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: including we noted back at the very beginning, we talked

1348
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: about it when we did the seeding, David Lynch's passing.

1349
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 3: YEP, had to factor that in Mullholland.

1350
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 2: Drive is a masterpiece in my mind, and it could

1351
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 2: stand on its own separate from that. But yes, I agree,

1352
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: that has to be something that is at least playing

1353
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 2: a small part and if you go back to that

1354
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen Madness Eternal Sunshine crushed mulhalland drive sixty one

1355
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: to thirty nine percent in the Elite eight. Oh wow,

1356
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: we will see how things have changed. Yeah, what what's

1357
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 2: going on in the voters' minds this year?

1358
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 3: As those even if you're in some recency, that's a

1359
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 3: big gap.

1360
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 2: Interest it is now as we are talking this very moment,

1361
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 2: there's only a few hundred votes in. But I've hit

1362
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 2: refreshed a few times and they're both pretty tight, Josh.

1363
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: So separation certainly could occur this is day one, but

1364
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 2: I think we could see something a lot closer than

1365
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 2: that sixty one to thirty nine back in twenty nineteen.

1366
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 2: It's gonna be fun. You can vote in those Madness

1367
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,599
Speaker 2: Final four polls right now. They close Tuesday April twenty second,

1368
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: So Tuesday April twenty second at five pm Central time.

1369
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 2: All the information you need is a film spotting dot

1370
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:59,799
Speaker 2: net slash Madness. For those of you who submitted brackets.

1371
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 2: If you were one of the eight hundred and twenty

1372
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 2: five participants who did submit a prediction in our bracket contest,

1373
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 2: we do encourage you to go to the Madness homepage.

1374
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: Click on the bracket. Check out how you are doing

1375
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 2: the top of the leaderboard. Josh seems to be at

1376
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 2: least two thirds international, at least based on email addresses,

1377
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 2: and for love third Yeah, for the third week in

1378
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 2: a row. It's UK's Ricky. Don't lose that number one spot, Kendle.

1379
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 2: He was perfect in the Elite eight, Josh, and remains

1380
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 2: almost perfect for the tournament. He has missed only one matchup,

1381
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 2: and he very well could only miss one matchup the

1382
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 2: entire tournament. I don't know how he's doing it.

1383
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 3: At this point, Ricky. You need to employ these gifts

1384
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 3: towards something that will get you fame and fortune. They're

1385
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 3: being wasted here well. And you may not recall this, Josh,

1386
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 3: but I just looked at his bracket. The only one

1387
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 3: he missed was he picked the Dark Knight to beat

1388
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 3: Children of Men, and you know how close that one was.

1389
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 3: That was fifty two to forty eight, so you know

1390
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 3: he was close even in defeat. Congrats Ricky, so far

1391
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 3: it is your tournament to lose in second place. I'm

1392
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 3: really excited to see not a new name to us,

1393
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,480
Speaker 3: but a new name near the top of the leaderboard.

1394
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 3: Steve Mesa, he has also done very well so far.

1395
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 3: He's made fifty six correct choices. He has Mulholland and

1396
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 3: there will be blood in the final, and I believe

1397
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 3: unlike Ricky, he has Mulholland drive winning it. Ricky has

1398
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 3: the number one seed, there will be blood and then

1399
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,919
Speaker 3: in third place representing Italy. Maria quantum physics is easier

1400
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 3: than this. Marcussini has the correct Final four. Maria has

1401
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 3: fifty four correct choices so far. She has there will

1402
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 3: be blood up against Eternal Sunshine competing for the championship. Josh, Yeah,

1403
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 3: congrats to all three of them so far. The internal

1404
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 3: standings are internal bracket contests. Me you, Sam, Mike Marrigan. Josh,

1405
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 3: you got a parasite he cost me. Yeah, you got

1406
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 3: three of those four matchups correct. In the Elite eight,

1407
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 3: you are in fourth place. You're eightieth overall. You did

1408
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 3: have parasite beating Sunshine. You had it advancing all the

1409
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 3: way to the final. Yeah.

1410
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 2: Ou Sam has dropped or possibly remains in third place.

1411
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: He also had three of four correct. He had mad

1412
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 2: Max over No Country for old Men. That was his

1413
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 2: one misstep. He's in sixty first overall. My misstep. Yeah,

1414
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 2: I picked parasite over Eternal Sunshine. That has me in

1415
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 2: forty seventh overall, and finally Mike Marrigan is in first place.

1416
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 2: Here's Mike's issue. Though he had parasite over Sunshine and

1417
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,520
Speaker 2: had it advancing to the final.

1418
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 3: I think I did too, So yeah, yeah.

1419
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 2: You did. You both have parasite going on to that

1420
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 2: championship match, Sam and I have different winners. He went

1421
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 2: with there will be blood. I went with mulhalland drive

1422
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: me thinking Sam may be in the driver's seat in

1423
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: our competition.

1424
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 3: Here's my usual important question at this point. Is there

1425
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 3: a chance I won't be in last? There?

1426
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 2: I believe there is. I have not crunched the numbers.

1427
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,520
Speaker 3: With Mike also choosing parasite.

1428
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing with you picking and Mike picking

1429
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: there will be blood, and Sam, you all pick there

1430
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: will be blood. I'm the only person who picked mulholland

1431
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 2: Drive to win it. So if there will be blood wins,

1432
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 2: I have to think I'm going to finish last.

1433
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 3: Okay, voters, you know what to do.

1434
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 2: I knew that was going to be a risk when

1435
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 2: I chose it, but it just felt too boring to go.

1436
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's a bold strategy.

1437
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 2: Blood it's a bold.

1438
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 3: And not I considered it. I definitely considered it. It's

1439
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 3: a reasonably bold strategy.

1440
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 2: I will say that we can't wait to get your

1441
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 2: votes and share the winners next week on the show

1442
01:14:54,400 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 2: film Spotting dot Net slash Madness.

1443
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 5: Jab was.

1444
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 2: Twenty years of podcasting Josh also means twenty years of

1445
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 2: film spotting Madness. With that clip from Andre Tarkowski's Ivans Childhood,

1446
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 2: we embark on our fifty first marathons. These are all

1447
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:41,480
Speaker 2: about eliminating our cinematic blind spots, whether they be the

1448
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 2: work of certain filmmakers that were not as familiar with

1449
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 2: as we would like to be, or not familiar at all,

1450
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 2: or certain genres or regions of cinema. We have occasionally

1451
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 2: been able to knock out a director's complete filmography with

1452
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 2: a single marathon, usually containing five or six films, though

1453
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 2: it's rare. That's effectively what we're going to be able

1454
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 2: to do here with our Tarkovski blind spots. That we're

1455
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 2: not watching all of his feature films. By the end

1456
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 2: of this marathon, we will have seen them all.

1457
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I had said at one point

1458
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 3: last year as an aside. I don't know how it

1459
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,559
Speaker 3: came up, but I just can't imagine going through this

1460
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 3: life without having watched every feature film from Andre Tarkovski,

1461
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 3: and so thankfully I'm going to take care of that

1462
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: here with this marathon. Very excited to embark here. We're

1463
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 3: able to do this because the Russian filmmaker, he made

1464
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 3: only seven features between nineteen sixty one and his death

1465
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty six. So although a lot of these

1466
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 3: are long, it's still a manageable filmography to tackle. And

1467
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 3: as you said, Adam, between the two of us we've

1468
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 3: seen most of these already, but also between the two

1469
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 3: of us there are some gaps. So we do want

1470
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 3: to mention the Tarkovskis that are not going to be

1471
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:52,640
Speaker 3: part of this marathon. And these are some great films Solaris.

1472
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: We have both seen that one. I think, Adam, it

1473
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 3: was part of an overlooked a tour's marathon you did

1474
01:16:58,200 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 3: before my time.

1475
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 2: Way back in six with Sam Yes.

1476
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 3: Okay, nineteen seventy five's Mirror. We did discuss together that

1477
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 3: was part of a marathon. In twenty twenty three it

1478
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,600
Speaker 3: was our Citan Sound Top one hundred blind spots. So

1479
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 3: looking at that list and you know, picking a handful

1480
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 3: of movies from it that were blind spots for the

1481
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 3: both of us, Mirror was our selection there. And then

1482
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 3: Tarkowski's final film nineteen eighty six is the Sacrifice. We

1483
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 3: have both seen that. We haven't had a discussion about it,

1484
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 3: and I'm not sure. I know I saw it within

1485
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 3: the last maybe five to eight years. Perhaps we did

1486
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 3: our top five films of nineteen eighty six and that's

1487
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 3: why we caught up with it.

1488
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, might have been homework for you. I think I

1489
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 2: saw it originally a few years before that, back in

1490
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen when I was preparing. I didn't end up

1491
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:49,799
Speaker 2: putting it on the syllabus, though I think we watched

1492
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 2: scenes from it. It was part of my gram school

1493
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:56,679
Speaker 2: class at the Unversity of Chicago Spiritual Crises in Cinema.

1494
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 2: So that, of course is the reason why I did

1495
01:17:59,160 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 2: that homework.

1496
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect title for that, and so yeah, those are

1497
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 3: the three that we both have already seen. So here

1498
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 3: are the films we're going to be covering in this

1499
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 3: current marathon. Nineteen sixty two's Andre Rublev that is a

1500
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 3: blind spot for me. Did as I mentioned, just see

1501
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 3: it from the first time about a month or two ago.

1502
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, in preparation really for this marathon, and we

1503
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 3: will be discussing Andre Rublev next week. After that we'll

1504
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 3: move on to Stalker. This was the first Tarkovski I

1505
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 3: ever saw. It is a blind spot for Adam. That

1506
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 3: one came out in nineteen seventy nine. Another Adam blind

1507
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 3: spot is Nostalgia from nineteen eighty three. And if you

1508
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 3: want to play along with us on this marathon, all

1509
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 3: but Nostalgia are streaming on the Criterion Channel and Max

1510
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 3: and all of them plus Nostalgia are available via vod.

1511
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 2: We're starting with nineteen sixty one's The Steamroller and the

1512
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 2: Violin and Ivan's Childhood, Tarkovski's first proper feature, which came

1513
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 2: out a year later in sixty Steamroller is not a metaphor,

1514
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 2: or at least not entirely a metaphor. The forty five

1515
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 2: minute student film features a young boy of seven who's

1516
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 2: a dedicated violinist. He's teased and bullied by his peers

1517
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. He befriends a steamroller driver spoilers no

1518
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 2: violins were harmed in the making of this film, Josh

1519
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 2: with Ivan, again we have a boy befriending an older man,

1520
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 2: in this case a few older men. It's twelve year

1521
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 2: old Orphan Ivan, who is a scout for the Soviet

1522
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 2: Army in World War Two. He's looked after by three

1523
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:35,879
Speaker 2: young officers. And I went back, Josh found my notes

1524
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:40,799
Speaker 2: from that early film spotting marathon, the overlooked O Tours Marathon,

1525
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 2: though then it was cinicast with Sam and I love

1526
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 2: that I posed this question to him in these terms.

1527
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 2: I said, would you agree that in the history of

1528
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 2: cinecast we've never been more humbled or challenged by a

1529
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 2: filmmaker than we were with these two films, the two

1530
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 2: films being Solaris and at the time Andre Rubelev. But

1531
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 2: that sets up for you what it felt like then

1532
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 2: and even a little bit now, how formidable Tarkovski's filmography feels.

1533
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,879
Speaker 2: Of course, the funny part is the history of cinecas

1534
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 2: when we were eighty shows in compared to now, when

1535
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 2: we have a few more shows under our belt.

1536
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 3: We'll see if that probably the same thing.

1537
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I absolutely would, and I share that because

1538
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 2: I want you to contextualize having seen other Tarkovski films

1539
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 2: and already revering him as a filmmaker, and going back

1540
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 2: now to the beginning, to the very beginning of his

1541
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 2: career and seeing or not seeing how some of his motifs,

1542
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 2: some of his obsessions, some of those thematic ideas may

1543
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 2: have been explored or he was starting to explore them,

1544
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 2: even in this early work. And since they did come

1545
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 2: out within just one year of each other, how did

1546
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 2: you see that student film and the work he was

1547
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 2: doing there, the experimentation he was doing there come to

1548
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 2: fruition perhaps in his first feature.

1549
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I say you'd probably ask the same question now,

1550
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 3: because I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom

1551
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 3: of a Tarkovsky film or figure out Tarkovsky, right, And

1552
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 3: I think that's a good thing, because his movies are

1553
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 3: about the mystery of mystery. They're not They can be

1554
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 3: puzzles in many ways, but the point isn't necessary to

1555
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 3: figure them out. It's to experience mystery at the same

1556
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 3: time that can be daunting. And I really hope that

1557
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,640
Speaker 3: people are going to play along with this marathon and

1558
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:31,440
Speaker 3: start here with us if they've never seen a Tarkovsky

1559
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 3: film and only have him as this imposing figure in

1560
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: their minds, because the Steamroller in the Violin is a

1561
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 3: lovely little fable that is so involving and approachable. And

1562
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 3: we're going to touch on a few of those things

1563
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 3: you were asking about where you see that, yes, Tarkovsky

1564
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 3: made this, but I just have to think, if you're

1565
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 3: at all intimidated by him, open up this little children's

1566
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 3: book and sit with it, and I like to think

1567
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 3: it'll envelop you in a way and make you ready

1568
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 3: to take the next step, which Ivan's Childhood is for sure.

1569
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 3: I think it's also a not step yet towards where

1570
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 3: Tarkovsky will eventually take you, but you can see more

1571
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 3: signs of where you're going. But it is a conventional

1572
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 3: war film in some ways that is more approachable. So yeah,

1573
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 3: this isn't a complete as Tarkovsky marathon, but I really

1574
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 3: hope listeners join us if they're new to Tarkovsky and

1575
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 3: start here. Ivan's Childhood is the more impressive accomplishment. Absolutely,

1576
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 3: it's more interesting. You see more of Tarkovsky in it,

1577
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:40,679
Speaker 3: But I kind of treasured the steamroller and the Violin.

1578
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved this experience. It is as I said

1579
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 3: a little fable, But I think it's profound. I think

1580
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 3: it's full of real feeling. Just this simple story of

1581
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 3: this bullied kid the musician there goes. The musician can say,

1582
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 3: go get them with disdain, with disdain, exact lovely, it's

1583
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,799
Speaker 3: an insult musician. That's it. And to me, this movie

1584
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:06,799
Speaker 3: was about breaking down the lines between someone who's interested

1585
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 3: in art and someone who is a laborer, and that

1586
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 3: the laborer can appreciate art and that the artists can

1587
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 3: appreciate the work of the labor And you know when

1588
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 3: this kid played by Igor Fomchenko has this friendship with

1589
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:26,560
Speaker 3: how about this actor playing the steamroller driver of Vladimir Zamansky.

1590
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 3: Just the warmth and the instant recognition that this kid

1591
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 3: is being bullied and that he's going to take him

1592
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 3: under his wing and let him drive the steamroller so

1593
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 3: that all the other kids in the neighborhood are jealous,

1594
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 3: take him to lunch. And yeah, again it's the simplest

1595
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 3: of ideas, but it is executed with imagination and tenderness

1596
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 3: and care and artistic invention. I think we'll get to

1597
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 3: that points to other things we see in Tarkowski later.

1598
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 3: And I'm sure, there are things you know, related to

1599
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 3: the time, and I'm not picking up on in terms

1600
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:05,600
Speaker 3: of the Soviet era, And is this, you know, is

1601
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 3: this trying to meet government expectations for praising the worker,

1602
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 3: but at the same time it's also making space for

1603
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 3: appreciating the artist and vice versa. So yeah, this is

1604
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 3: what like forty five minutes and it's just beautiful.

1605
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, And I know this is probably going

1606
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 2: to sound like one of the datus things I've ever said,

1607
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 2: but that's fine. I'll play the part. Maybe it's because

1608
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 2: The Masters was on last weekend, but one of my

1609
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 2: favorite phrases is I love when golf commentators talk about

1610
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:41,760
Speaker 2: some golfers as great ball strikers. He's one of our

1611
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 2: great ball strikers. Josh Well. My film critic version of

1612
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 2: that is, when you think about the all time image

1613
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 2: makers in cinema, where does Tarkovsky rank? And even if

1614
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 2: you were just going off of these two films, right,

1615
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 2: quite honestly, you wouldn't even need the rest of it,

1616
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 2: even though that just solidified the case for him being

1617
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: perhaps number one or certainly in a top five. Right,

1618
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 2: And to your point about the worker, and even with

1619
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 2: a war film. I do know that at the end

1620
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 2: of the fifties and early sixties, in Soviet cinema, it

1621
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 2: was very common to make war films. They were still

1622
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 2: definitely reckoning with their involvement in the war and the

1623
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 2: fallout from it and its effect on society and culture.

1624
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 2: But some of them were more likely to be a

1625
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 2: bit propagandistic and pro military, certainly pro Soviet. And you

1626
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 2: watch something like Steamroller in the Violin and you can

1627
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 2: see those elements of it being very pro worker. But

1628
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: you take these films in their totalities, and you also

1629
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 2: recognize that Tarkovski is someone to your point about making

1630
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 2: mysteries about mystery. He's just so disinclined to project something

1631
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: so simple and boring on screen, and he subverts those

1632
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 2: elements every chance he gets, but not in a way

1633
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 2: where it feels like he's trying to thumb his nose

1634
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 2: at anyone. His cinema is not predicated on responding to

1635
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 2: anybody else or to the government, at least it doesn't

1636
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 2: feel that way to me. These are these reveries that

1637
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:20,719
Speaker 2: come out of his imagination. And I'll try to unite

1638
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 2: these two thoughts talking about the image making and the

1639
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 2: way he takes the every day and just breathes all

1640
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 2: this imagination into it. The moment for me, I wonder

1641
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 2: if you had a moment like this. I'm sure you

1642
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 2: had at least one in Steamroll or Violin. The moment

1643
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:38,599
Speaker 2: for me that really kind of took my breath away

1644
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 2: was when we see the young boy play the violin

1645
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:47,759
Speaker 2: for the first time at his lesson, and he starts

1646
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 2: to play the notes, and you can tell that the

1647
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 2: music is something that he really values and is important

1648
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 2: to him, and he feels the beauty of it, and

1649
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 2: he starts kind of swaying with the music a little bit.

1650
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:03,160
Speaker 2: But then what does Tarkovsky do with the camera as

1651
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 2: he's swaying to represent what it means for this boy

1652
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 2: to play this music, to represent what it's doing to

1653
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 2: him emotionally and intellectually. Even he doesn't just leave the

1654
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 2: camera on him. He then pans over to the page

1655
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 2: of notes and the notes become a little bit blurry.

1656
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 2: And then from that, Josh he goes over to the

1657
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 2: table where there's a glass with water and light coming

1658
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 2: in through the window, and the light is bouncing inside

1659
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 2: the glass of water again creating this blurry effect, and

1660
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 2: it's only brought suddenly back into focus. We're only shook

1661
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 2: back into reality along with the boy because the teacher

1662
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 2: has decided this isn't acceptable, right, Which is a metaphor

1663
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 2: for other larger issues within society, including this idea of

1664
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:02,839
Speaker 2: being a musician, of being an artist, and how important

1665
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 2: is that really to the larger cause. But this is

1666
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 2: Tarkovsky doing what he does so well throughout all the

1667
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 2: films of his that I've seen, and I look forward

1668
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 2: to seeing more of these moments, discovering some new ones,

1669
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 2: rediscovering some as we go, visually portraying the ineffable. That's

1670
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: what it is. How do you describe it? I'm not

1671
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 2: going to try to describe it. I don't need to.

1672
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 2: You have to watch what he does with the camera

1673
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,719
Speaker 2: and you understand exactly what he is feeling. It reminded

1674
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 2: me of one of my favorite moments from her when

1675
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 2: we talked about that, which was that kind of magical,

1676
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 2: imaginative moment where the young boy in that film sees

1677
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 2: a woman sitting at a table and then she disappears.

1678
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,639
Speaker 2: We're not sure if she was ever actually there. When

1679
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 2: he goes to the table, we think it might be

1680
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 2: in his imagination. But then we see that there's some

1681
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,600
Speaker 2: condensation from her mug still on the table. So we

1682
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 2: have Tarkovsky using water again, which he uses throughout both

1683
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 2: films and he's going to use throughout these films. We

1684
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 2: have him utilizing even the water within a mug, or

1685
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 2: the effects of the liquid being in the mug and

1686
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 2: it being something that you cannot quite grasp and yet

1687
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 2: is a viewer because of the way he portrays it.

1688
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,680
Speaker 2: You do you do understand it, you do feel it.

1689
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, capturing the ineffable is exactly right. And water. It's

1690
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,600
Speaker 3: so fitting that you start with that observation about a

1691
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,680
Speaker 3: glass of water, because he so frequently uses it to

1692
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 3: stand in for that experience. Because water can shape shift,

1693
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 3: it can distort light, it can just take on so

1694
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 3: many meanings. And I'll point to another use of it

1695
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 3: in the steamroll or in the Violin. This is when

1696
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 3: they're having lunch together. They're like in an outdoor corridor

1697
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:49,360
Speaker 3: or sort of an alley. And I love again the exchange,

1698
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 3: you know, the exchange between labor and art. Here you

1699
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,719
Speaker 3: have the kid struggling. We should know, if we haven't already,

1700
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 3: he's about seven to get people give people an idea

1701
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 3: of how old. This kid is taking out the loaf

1702
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 3: of bread that the driver has for lunch and taking

1703
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 3: the knife and just kind of like he's going to

1704
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 3: slice his thumb off. He has no idea what he's doing,

1705
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 3: and the driver kindly like shows him, here's how you

1706
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 3: slice with a knife in a way that's safe and effective.

1707
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:19,320
Speaker 3: And it's just one of these sort of like maturing

1708
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 3: moments like this will help you become more of a

1709
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 3: grown up, to show you how to do this. And

1710
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 3: what's the kid's response. It's not indirect response, but it

1711
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 3: is the next thing we see is he begins to explain, well,

1712
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 3: here's how a violin works. I think the driver might

1713
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,839
Speaker 3: ask him, what's that part of your violin? And then

1714
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 3: you know, the kid proceeds to pluck a few courts

1715
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,680
Speaker 3: and he notices that, oh, well, where I'm standing in

1716
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 3: this corridor the resonance. He starts to explain to the

1717
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,760
Speaker 3: driver what resonance is. Yes, this is not a good

1718
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 3: spot for resonance, and then he goes to another spot

1719
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 3: and plucks. And then when he finds a good spot

1720
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 3: for the appropriate resonance, he plays a little bit and

1721
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:00,640
Speaker 3: the drivers just smile. Not only the beauty of the

1722
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 3: art he's enjoying, but what he has learned from this

1723
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 3: boy in that moment. And here's where the water comes in.

1724
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 3: Throughout these scenes, there are puddles all over the place

1725
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 3: on these streets, you know, and you have to think

1726
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 3: Tarkovsky is the production do design, is employing those for

1727
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 3: various purposes. And here, even in this corridor, there is

1728
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 3: a puddle and it begins reflecting the light of the

1729
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 3: sun on their faces, and it's just blessing them in

1730
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 3: this moment. It's transforming the space. It's somehow making this interaction,

1731
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,440
Speaker 3: which was already significant, gives it a level of holiness.

1732
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 3: And this is what Tarkovsky uses water and light throughout

1733
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 3: his films to do in so many instances. So yeah,

1734
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,679
Speaker 3: just totally makes sense that we're already talking about water.

1735
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, the young boy is named Sasha. And how about

1736
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,640
Speaker 2: that moment again, talking about this dichotomy and the reverence

1737
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 2: that Tarkovsky and this film has. It's not necessarily a

1738
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 2: subtle film, the reverence it is expressing for those who

1739
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:09,919
Speaker 2: are artistically inclined, recognizing that this type of beauty matters

1740
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 2: in this world. Those boys all those neighborhood kids that

1741
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,880
Speaker 2: can't wait to beat up on him and who do

1742
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 2: insult him with the term musician. When they finally open

1743
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 2: the violin and they finally see it, they behold it.

1744
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,600
Speaker 2: They behold it is something that they even though they

1745
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 2: don't understand really what he does with it or why

1746
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 2: he does what he does with it, there's something about

1747
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 2: the beauty of just the object itself that stops them

1748
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 2: in their tracks.

1749
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, that's what I wanted to ask you

1750
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 3: if that was your impression, is that it almost mesmerizes them. Yeah,

1751
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 3: because the camera starts to do something too, where it's

1752
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:52,040
Speaker 3: almost changes focus as you were describing before. The soundtrack

1753
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 3: becomes a little ethereal, and it's almost like the violin

1754
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 3: casts a spell on them. So they don't destroy it

1755
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:59,679
Speaker 3: because you think, for sure they're just going to smash

1756
01:32:59,720 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 3: this thing.

1757
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 2: Bets right, It would only make sense, but in this

1758
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 2: movie that violin is going to have a certain sort

1759
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 2: of magical hold on them again, even if they're ignorant

1760
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 2: ultimately to its charms. You watch Steamroll and Violin and

1761
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 2: you definitely do sense that it's a student film. Though,

1762
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 2: as I said earlier, I've seen a lot of student

1763
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 2: films in my day, and none of them looked like

1764
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 2: this movie or were as vividly colorful as this films

1765
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,000
Speaker 2: are so great. Yeah, it has that kind of zigavertav

1766
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 2: man with a movie camera trying out every single technique

1767
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 2: I can possibly employ, and he uses them well and

1768
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 2: very inventively. But it was his final project to earn

1769
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 2: his thesis or to earn his degree, and it feels

1770
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,639
Speaker 2: like he's he's showing off a little bit. Look look

1771
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 2: what I can do. I do know how to use

1772
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 2: all of these different visual techniques. It coalesces a little

1773
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 2: bit more, I think in Ivan's childhood. But then it's

1774
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:59,360
Speaker 2: so stunning to go right from one end to the other,

1775
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 2: which I did a day apart, but having that color

1776
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,720
Speaker 2: in my mind, and then seeing the stark black and

1777
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 2: white and how it's used and how shadows are used,

1778
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 2: especially in Ivan's childhood. Even there there's the jextaposition. Though,

1779
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 2: how about the beginning, which we don't know at first

1780
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 2: is a dream sequence. We start to realize something might

1781
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 2: be a little bit off. In fact, it seems just

1782
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,559
Speaker 2: a little bit too bright in the sun. Things seem

1783
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 2: a little bit too idealistic and then that jolt into reality.

1784
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,759
Speaker 2: This is a dream sequence, a bit of a nightmare,

1785
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,840
Speaker 2: but a dream sequence for Ivan. And now we're in

1786
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:41,759
Speaker 2: the reality as we're approaching nighttime, and here the shadows

1787
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 2: are especially harsh. That glow of the sunlight of him

1788
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 2: with his mother is certainly gone.

1789
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 3: Josh.

1790
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 2: There's a moment though, in Ivan's childhood when I say,

1791
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 2: I know we use phrases like this, we say it

1792
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:58,840
Speaker 2: took my breath away, like I said earlier, or it

1793
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:02,080
Speaker 2: stunned me. There is a scene I will say that

1794
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 2: I gasped out loud, but I did just sort of

1795
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 2: sit there with my jaw almost on the floor watching it.

1796
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 2: And when I say that, do you imagine you know

1797
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 2: which scene I'm talking about in.

1798
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 3: This because because there's compositions are pristine throughout and this

1799
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:25,639
Speaker 3: this change is you know, that edenic opening that you mentioned.

1800
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 3: The dream sequence is a little looser. It's you know,

1801
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 3: Ivan is running at this in a lot of these scenes,

1802
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,760
Speaker 3: and at one point it even he imagines he's flying right,

1803
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:38,400
Speaker 3: and the camera sort of mixed this, yes from his

1804
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:40,920
Speaker 3: point of view in a wonderful way. And then when

1805
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,320
Speaker 3: we cut to reality to this World War two setting

1806
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 3: where we find he is an orphan essentially working for

1807
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 3: Russian soldiers as as a scout, as a spy on

1808
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 3: the front lines, the German front lines. Then it becomes

1809
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:58,559
Speaker 3: more stark, but that's when the compositions take over, and

1810
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 3: it's like, I mean, why it's even just in the

1811
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 3: foreground with a windmill way off on a ridge behind him.

1812
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:10,720
Speaker 3: There's almost not a shot that isn't masterfully composed. So yeah,

1813
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 3: it's hard to pick which one might have been.

1814
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to give it to you, and before

1815
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 2: I say it, I'll give you a couple other options,

1816
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:22,679
Speaker 2: or at least one other option. And that's the second

1817
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 2: I think dream sequence where he's with his mother and

1818
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 2: they're looking down into the well here again oh yeah, yeah,

1819
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 2: and the refraction of light and how images change, and

1820
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:39,240
Speaker 2: that literal fluidity, the fact that when they look down

1821
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 2: into the well, the camera is down in the well

1822
01:36:42,360 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 2: and they are looking directly into it and staring right

1823
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 2: back at us. It says, if it's a portal, the

1824
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 2: well becomes a portal into his psyche, It becomes a

1825
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:55,240
Speaker 2: portal into his unconscious in a way that so many

1826
01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 2: films have tried to do and have done and have

1827
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:01,000
Speaker 2: done effectively. I don't know if any have done it

1828
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 2: as effectively as this movie does. But the jaw dropping

1829
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 2: moment for me, Josh is during a sequence that features

1830
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:15,599
Speaker 2: the lieutenant character Colon I believe is what they call him,

1831
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:21,839
Speaker 2: and Masha, who is the nurse at the Birch Forest's location.

1832
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:27,240
Speaker 2: The Birch Forest. So both of these films up to

1833
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:33,000
Speaker 2: this point, Steamroller and the first thirty forty minutes, if

1834
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 2: you will, of Ivan's Childhood, these are films that are

1835
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 2: very much to me, Josh about Tarkovsky exploring this idea

1836
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 2: of looking for or exploring the possibility of beauty in

1837
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:48,920
Speaker 2: a world that is defined by brutality, and I think

1838
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 2: this sequence so perfectly captures that and also gets back

1839
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 2: to what we were saying about the ineffable. This is

1840
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 2: a sequence where the lieutenant character is being a bit

1841
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 2: of a predator. Fair to say, I don't know he's

1842
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 2: being a bit of a predator. Oh yeah. This is

1843
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 2: a man fair to say, has probably not seen too

1844
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: many attractive women or women of any kind on the

1845
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 2: front line. He manages to get her out in this

1846
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 2: birch forest, and he seems to be very set in

1847
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 2: having some kind of encounter with her. He is saying

1848
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:31,599
Speaker 2: things in a playful way, sometimes in an aggressive way.

1849
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:36,599
Speaker 2: There's certainly a sense of innuendo, and he is kind

1850
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 2: of stalking her, and she feels uncomfortable. She feels uneasy,

1851
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:45,440
Speaker 2: and is constantly moving away from him, and without openly

1852
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 2: rejecting him, is constantly trying to maneuver out of certain

1853
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 2: situations where they may be intimate with each other. And Josh,

1854
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there is this crevice, there is

1855
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 2: this hole in the ground that she needs to get over,

1856
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 2: and he says he'll help her. She says no. He

1857
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:11,839
Speaker 2: grabs her anyway, after first straddling the crevice, he grabs

1858
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,120
Speaker 2: her as if he's just going to kind of carry

1859
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 2: her across. He's almost acting like a bridge and he's

1860
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 2: going to carry her to the other side. Except what

1861
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 2: does he do. He grabs her and suspends her in

1862
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 2: mid air as Tarkovsky's camera then sinks into the crevis

1863
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 2: and shoots up at the low angle at them, and

1864
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 2: it becomes this almost angelic moment. It could be obscene

1865
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:44,080
Speaker 2: because it's him forcing a kiss onto her. It is

1866
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,599
Speaker 2: him forcing a physical moment and yet the way he

1867
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 2: lifts her, the way he suspends her there it somehow

1868
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:55,920
Speaker 2: goes from obscenity into grace. And I don't know that

1869
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:00,760
Speaker 2: it transforms into grace. I'm saying it is containing those

1870
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 2: two ideas simultaneously. And I think that for me, is

1871
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 2: this idea too of beauty mixed with brutality. And that's

1872
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 2: a moment that's certainly going to be a contender. I know,

1873
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:13,519
Speaker 2: we have so much ahead of us here in this marathon.

1874
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 2: That's going to be a contender for the scene of

1875
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:18,320
Speaker 2: this marathon. It's going to be a contender for my

1876
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:22,320
Speaker 2: favorite scene or my favorite shot of this marathon. And

1877
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 2: it surprised me in every way it possibly could. Within

1878
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:28,679
Speaker 2: that sequence.

1879
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very curious sequence because I think Masha,

1880
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:38,720
Speaker 3: who is the nurse character played by Valentina Malavina, I

1881
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:42,040
Speaker 3: think this is one of two, maybe three scenes she gets,

1882
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:45,759
Speaker 3: so she's a relatively minor character and she's given significant scenes.

1883
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 3: And I think this is you know, it's two Tarkowski's

1884
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 3: credit that he's interested in a woman character's experience in

1885
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 3: this time and place and takes the time to include it.

1886
01:40:57,000 --> 01:41:00,400
Speaker 3: And then the older soldier who you've been describing Colon

1887
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 3: played by Valentine Zubkov. He's very You're right, it's this dance,

1888
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,639
Speaker 3: but it is a dangerous situation. She is she as

1889
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 3: I read it, she is trying to find a way

1890
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:16,679
Speaker 3: to extricate herself without making it clear that she's in danger.

1891
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 3: It's that horrible sort of dance that women likely have

1892
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,800
Speaker 3: to do in these situations, where how can I keep

1893
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 3: this playful enough to get away without it turning in

1894
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 3: a violent manner? And so there's a lot of danger

1895
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 3: there is how I read it, and I think that's

1896
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 3: how Tarkovski meant it to be communicated. The younger lieutenant

1897
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:45,719
Speaker 3: we've met earlier, Galtsev, who is the official supervisor of Masha.

1898
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:47,600
Speaker 3: He knows she's out there, and so we also know

1899
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:50,800
Speaker 3: he's coming to like sort of rescue her. So that's

1900
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:52,719
Speaker 3: a place he runs one runs.

1901
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:55,840
Speaker 2: Once that other soldier turns away, he stops walking and

1902
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:56,679
Speaker 2: starts running.

1903
01:41:56,479 --> 01:41:59,639
Speaker 3: Because he realizes she might So it's a very fraught

1904
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 3: situation that I guess I'm just saying I need to

1905
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:05,240
Speaker 3: give more thought, because it stands very much apart from

1906
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 3: the rest of the film, and I don't know that

1907
01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 3: that's a bad thing. But it doesn't evolve Ivan at all,

1908
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:13,040
Speaker 3: right now, boy at all. But the setting at them,

1909
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:16,759
Speaker 3: you know, the setting of these birch trees are again

1910
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:19,680
Speaker 3: the black and white. These are like maybe that I

1911
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,160
Speaker 3: keep saying birch. Maybe they're aspens if you think of

1912
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 3: like in Colorado, aspen trees have this kind of bark,

1913
01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 3: the peely white bark, and trees made to be shot

1914
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 3: in black and white, right, because they just glow on

1915
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 3: the screen. And I think it's in Miller's Crossing. Isn't

1916
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 3: this in that forest that the Coen Brothers use frequently,

1917
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:45,400
Speaker 3: Miller's Crossing, the Tidal Forest. I think it has similar trees,

1918
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:48,200
Speaker 3: so you can picture them. And I think it's so

1919
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 3: interesting when you describe them as you know, capturing a

1920
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:54,839
Speaker 3: capturing a little beauty in this war torn, ugly place.

1921
01:42:55,600 --> 01:43:00,960
Speaker 3: Did you notice that the bunker that I believe Masha's offices,

1922
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:04,839
Speaker 3: whether it's the nurses headquarters or that bunker, is entirely

1923
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 3: made of those trees, of those trunks chopped down the wall,

1924
01:43:10,360 --> 01:43:12,800
Speaker 3: the ceiling, and you know, the rest of the film

1925
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 3: we see these dirt, ugly bunkers that generally the men

1926
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:19,680
Speaker 3: are in and this bunker is it's this it's this

1927
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:24,360
Speaker 3: gorgeous like environment, but it's a bunker. It's a war bunker.

1928
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 3: And yeah, so that was a setting that stood out

1929
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:29,880
Speaker 3: to me. Again, just going back to the composition so

1930
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:32,760
Speaker 3: many and the one I'll always it's probably unfair because

1931
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,400
Speaker 3: I think it's on the DVD cover, but it's of

1932
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:39,719
Speaker 3: Ivan wandering through a bombed out former home or something,

1933
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:42,800
Speaker 3: and all the shards of the wall have formed these

1934
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 3: sharp arrows perspective right yea, yep, the way he's standing there,

1935
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:50,639
Speaker 3: all pointing at him. And I want to make sure

1936
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 3: we talk about Ivan and this performance by this kid,

1937
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 3: Nikolai Berliev, who I didn't recognize. We've both seen Andre

1938
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 3: ruble point. I didn't recognize until the scene where he

1939
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 3: actually rings a bell that he's the kid and Andre

1940
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:10,000
Speaker 3: Rublev the bell maker. I was like, well, no, wonder

1941
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 3: this kid is so good here, because he goes on

1942
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 3: to give that stunning performance in Andre Rubelev and the

1943
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 3: presence he has here a few years he's a few

1944
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 3: years younger, the way when he first shows up, when

1945
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 3: we first meet him, mysteriously he walks into camp and

1946
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:31,640
Speaker 3: the younger Lieutenant Galtzev doesn't know who he is, and

1947
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 3: he starts speaking to him with authority as an adult

1948
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,639
Speaker 3: would speak, but he still carries this childish vulnerability. It's

1949
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:39,640
Speaker 3: because he's already been working as a scout and there

1950
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:42,679
Speaker 3: are superiors who know who he is. The way he's

1951
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:46,759
Speaker 3: been able to balance that sort of maturity and youthful

1952
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:51,000
Speaker 3: vulnerability is just such a hallmark of this movie.

1953
01:44:51,080 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 2: I agree completely, And one of the defining moments of

1954
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:59,639
Speaker 2: the performance for me is just before that character really

1955
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:04,320
Speaker 2: comes to his trauma. And it's a fantasy sequence, but

1956
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 2: a fantasy sequence unlike the other dreams or nightmares that's

1957
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 2: actually occurring. It's one he's manifesting out of his own imagination.

1958
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 2: It's when he gets handed that knife, Yeah, Josh, and

1959
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 2: he's imagining him getting his vengeance. And the way the

1960
01:45:19,320 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 2: performer there goes from smile, or at least a moment

1961
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 2: of it seems relative comfort and happiness to all of

1962
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:32,679
Speaker 2: a sudden something being stirred within him once he holds

1963
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:38,360
Speaker 2: that knife and feeling so viscerally the thirst for vengeance

1964
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 2: that he has. You see how Tarkovsky's camera captures the

1965
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:46,640
Speaker 2: moment where he hardens, and boy does he harden. Everything

1966
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:51,960
Speaker 2: about his face becomes tougher and more aggressive and angry,

1967
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:55,519
Speaker 2: and then he launches that knife against the wall. That's

1968
01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:59,040
Speaker 2: what then ignites this kind of house of horror sequence

1969
01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 2: where he alone and is within this space and imagining

1970
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,000
Speaker 2: how it might play out if he's given his chance

1971
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:09,160
Speaker 2: to do what he wants to do and enact as

1972
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:14,600
Speaker 2: revenge on these Nazi soldiers. It's an incredible sequence visually,

1973
01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 2: but maybe even more so because of the performance. It's

1974
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:19,360
Speaker 2: at its core.

1975
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,600
Speaker 3: There's another moment where he there's a mortar attack on

1976
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 3: their camp and you know, everyone's screening and trying to

1977
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:30,559
Speaker 3: take cover, and he's, you know, with them, and one

1978
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:33,080
Speaker 3: of the soldiers tells him, don't be afraid, don't be afraid,

1979
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:35,519
Speaker 3: and the way the kid just looks at him and says,

1980
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:39,680
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid. He's not mostful, he's not. It's just

1981
01:46:39,880 --> 01:46:42,840
Speaker 3: this is the fact is he has been so damaged

1982
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 3: and traumatized he's legitimately not afraid there to take that.

1983
01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 2: It's going to take a lot more than a few

1984
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:53,400
Speaker 2: bombs in the distance to rattle this kid.

1985
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:54,800
Speaker 3: It's so sad he.

1986
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:57,719
Speaker 2: Does have to have that kind of thousand yard stare

1987
01:46:57,880 --> 01:46:59,320
Speaker 2: and he certainly does.

1988
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,760
Speaker 3: Yes. So in terms of you know, influence and you know,

1989
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:07,880
Speaker 3: other war films, this might have nodded to. When they're

1990
01:47:08,479 --> 01:47:11,559
Speaker 3: trying to sneak back across enemy lines via the boat

1991
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:16,360
Speaker 3: and Ivan is with them, it's nighttime and they're on

1992
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:19,360
Speaker 3: the river going, it's almost more like a swampy area. Yes,

1993
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:23,639
Speaker 3: did you think of Apocalypse Now? Yeah, with the lights,

1994
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 3: you know, the flares landing in the water and the

1995
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:29,600
Speaker 3: I mean, this is something that other war films have

1996
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 3: used as well, but for some reason, I was taken

1997
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 3: directly to that sequence in Apocalypse Now, which used the

1998
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:36,960
Speaker 3: flare so effectively in the water.

1999
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much. It would be a shocker to me

2000
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:45,200
Speaker 2: if Coppola didn't claim the influence of Ivan's Childhood on

2001
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:49,120
Speaker 2: Apocalypse Now. Both Ivan's Childhood and The Steamroller and the

2002
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:52,080
Speaker 2: Violin are streaming on the Criterion Channel and Max. They're

2003
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:55,680
Speaker 2: also available vod next step in the Tarkatski Marathon it

2004
01:47:55,760 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 2: will be Andre Rubelev discussed for the second time here

2005
01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 2: on Film Spotting just about twenty years or nineteen years apart.

2006
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:09,240
Speaker 2: For more information about our marathon and upcoming shows, you

2007
01:48:09,240 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 2: can visit filmspotting dot net, slash marathons or film spotting

2008
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 2: dot net slash episodes. That's where we have our show calendar, Josh,

2009
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:20,040
Speaker 2: that is our show. We'd love to hear from many

2010
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,680
Speaker 2: of our listeners. They can email us anytime feedback at

2011
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 2: film spotting dot net.

2012
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:27,000
Speaker 3: If you'd like to connect with us on social media,

2013
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:30,320
Speaker 3: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram and Facebook.

2014
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 3: He's at film Spotting. You can find me at Larsen

2015
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 3: on film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You

2016
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,799
Speaker 3: can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family

2017
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:44,160
Speaker 3: at filmspottingfamily dot com. You can listen early and ad free.

2018
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,439
Speaker 3: You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and

2019
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 3: access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts,

2020
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 3: film Spotting fest posters, or other merch go to film

2021
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 3: spotting dot net slash shop.

2022
01:48:57,160 --> 01:49:00,599
Speaker 2: In those archives. Other Tarkowski, as we mentioned, and Andre

2023
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:03,800
Speaker 2: rublev part of that Overlooked O Tours marathon in two

2024
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,160
Speaker 2: thousand and six episode eighty, mirror episode nine to nineteen

2025
01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:10,880
Speaker 2: that was during our cit and Sound Top one hundred

2026
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:14,200
Speaker 2: Blind Spots marathon and more. Sean Baker talked about Tangerine

2027
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 2: on episode five forty seven, or I should say guest

2028
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 2: hosts Scott Tobias and Keith Phipps did. We talked about

2029
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 2: the Florida Project on six fifty two with Sean Baker,

2030
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:25,240
Speaker 2: talked about Red Rocket on eight fifty one, and reviewed

2031
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:29,400
Speaker 2: a Nora on episode nine ninety. In limited release, you

2032
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:32,559
Speaker 2: can see a four K restoration if you're fortunate enough

2033
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 2: to be in Chicago and can get to the Gene

2034
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 2: Sisco Film Center. A four K restoration of Charles Burnett's

2035
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:41,920
Speaker 2: Killer of Sheep also playing in limited release. A movie

2036
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:44,959
Speaker 2: I am very curious to see, Josh Secret Mall Apartment.

2037
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:48,040
Speaker 2: It's a documentary about eight Rhode Islanders who in two

2038
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:50,920
Speaker 2: thousand and three created the title secret Apartment in a

2039
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 2: busy mall and lived and filmed there for four years.

2040
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:55,480
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah.

2041
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:59,040
Speaker 2: In wide release, Joe writs Pride and Prejudice is getting

2042
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,680
Speaker 2: re released for its twentieth anniversary. I might just have

2043
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:05,840
Speaker 2: to drive the twenty miles down the road to see it.

2044
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:09,000
Speaker 2: That's the nearest theater to me, Josh, that is showing it.

2045
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:12,599
Speaker 2: But I do now love that film. The Wedding Banquet

2046
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:14,320
Speaker 2: is also about this is a remake of the Ang

2047
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:17,520
Speaker 2: Lee film from nineteen ninety three about a man frustrated

2048
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:20,759
Speaker 2: with his commitment phobic boyfriend played by SNL's Bow and Yang,

2049
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,679
Speaker 2: who makes an arrangement with a friend played by Kelly

2050
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:28,480
Speaker 2: Marie Tran a green card marriage in exchange for IVF.

2051
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:31,880
Speaker 2: Further complicating things, Joan Chen as the man's grandmother. She

2052
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:35,360
Speaker 2: shows up unexpectedly to throw the wedding banquet of the title.

2053
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 2: Lily Gladstone co stars, and you can also see Ryan

2054
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 2: Coogler's period horror film Sinners. That's what's on tap next week.

2055
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:48,080
Speaker 2: In addition to Andre Rublev we will talk about vampires.

2056
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 3: I think, Wait, they're vampires.

2057
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. They seem like they only came out

2058
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 2: at night.

2059
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:54,160
Speaker 3: Don't spoil.

2060
01:50:54,240 --> 01:50:55,840
Speaker 2: They seem like they only came out at night and

2061
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:59,720
Speaker 2: they were interested in blood. From the trailer, That's what

2062
01:50:59,720 --> 01:51:00,679
Speaker 2: I'm going with, Josh.

2063
01:51:00,840 --> 01:51:03,360
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Disso and Sam

2064
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 3: van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.

2065
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 3: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar Special thanks to everyone

2066
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:15,800
Speaker 3: at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ dot

2067
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:17,200
Speaker 3: org for film spotting.

2068
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

2069
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:23,880
Speaker 1: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

2070
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 2: But fine film spotting is listener supported. Join the film

2071
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:46,679
Speaker 2: Spotting Family at film spottingfamily dot com and get access

2072
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 2: to ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and,

2073
01:51:50,560 --> 01:51:52,840
Speaker 2: for the first time, all in one place, the entire

2074
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:55,559
Speaker 2: film spotting archive going back to two thousand and five.

2075
01:51:55,880 --> 01:52:01,280
Speaker 2: That's a film Spotting Family dot com panoply