WEBVTT - Part Two: Tony Alamo: The Worst Preacher

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, welcome back to Behind the Bastards. We're all doing

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<v Speaker 2>just so good. Uh, just so good. I'm talking about

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus grifters, and there Jesus grifting with one of my

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<v Speaker 2>very favorite people and guests, the great Samantha McVeigh. Samantha,

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<v Speaker 2>how are you doing?

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<v Speaker 3>I am here, you're here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, you've just been talking about how how tired and

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<v Speaker 2>slightly broken we all are already this year.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh huh h yeah, but hey, we exist.

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<v Speaker 2>We're still alive technically, you know, not in the ways

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<v Speaker 2>that matter, maybe, but like technically you know, yes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>just like well, actually not at all. Like Susan Alamo,

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<v Speaker 2>because she's just dead as hell. She is super fucking dead.

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<v Speaker 3>You told me a few times that she is good

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<v Speaker 3>and dead. She is.

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<v Speaker 2>She is real dead. Oh you are. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if you're ready for the amount of dead. This lady

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<v Speaker 2>is just the deadest, uh, Samantha, are you ready to

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<v Speaker 2>get back into it?

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<v Speaker 3>Let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're a cult leader and your wife, the Lamb

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<v Speaker 2>of God, has died, even though you both told everyone

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<v Speaker 2>on your TV show God would protect her from that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of pedestrian end because the world can't end unless

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<v Speaker 2>you're both alive, right, So what do you do when

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<v Speaker 2>she passes?

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<v Speaker 1>On?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 4>Put?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you put sunglasses on her.

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<v Speaker 2>You did guess weekend at Bernie's, And that's what they do.

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<v Speaker 2>It's I you are correct, because basically what they do

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<v Speaker 2>is he has her embalmed, He brings her corpse home

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<v Speaker 2>and he late, yeah, yeah, he puts it on a

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<v Speaker 2>table and he's going to have his followers pray over

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<v Speaker 2>it for days on end. Right, that's the that's the plan.

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<v Speaker 1>Here.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell me she's in that white suit though, like she

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<v Speaker 3>Lea's in that suit.

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<v Speaker 2>No, she's in her wedding dress. Does that make it worse?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that creepier or less creepy?

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<v Speaker 3>That's just setting up for a haunting mm hmm, like unhaunted.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and the way it's described to me is he

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<v Speaker 2>had he ordered them to dress her corpse in its

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<v Speaker 2>wedding dress. So I don't think she came in that dress.

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<v Speaker 2>He just makes his followers put her in it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not great.

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<v Speaker 3>Did he did he did like remarry her like renewed

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<v Speaker 3>vowels there too. I mean there's a lot that I'm I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think he was waiting for her to be resurrected to

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<v Speaker 2>do that.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Uh, you got to marry her for the fifth time, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has the fourth or fifth time. Yeah. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I will admit that the relationship dynamics of the Alamos

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<v Speaker 2>are a little bit murky to me, But my interpretation

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<v Speaker 2>is that while she was alive, Susan did a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of work to keep Tony on something that resembled an

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<v Speaker 2>even keel. He's still doing some sex crimes, right, but

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<v Speaker 2>a lot less than he will be once she dies.

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<v Speaker 2>Because she is she's exerting some control to limit his behavior, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And once she is gone, there is no one left

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<v Speaker 2>to keep this man in check, and he loses his

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<v Speaker 2>fucking mind. Like he goes from well not from zero,

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<v Speaker 2>he's at like fifty five, but he goes up to

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<v Speaker 2>like one hundred and twenty very quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like he's just waiting for his moment though.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it one of those things like yeah, now I'm

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<v Speaker 3>doing this, this is it, this is my time, And

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<v Speaker 3>then it just becomes trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah for a lot of people. And it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to start with some dead body related trauma because yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>yeah it's gross. So he has Susan's body taken to

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<v Speaker 2>the cult's dining room, and his followers are ordered to

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<v Speaker 2>take shifts praying for her resurrection, so that there's people

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<v Speaker 2>praying for her to be resurrected twenty four hours a day.

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<v Speaker 2>Cult funds are used to engage in nearby florists to

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<v Speaker 2>deliver flowers every day, probably to deal with the smell.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I was gonna ask about that, but you know, yeah, yeah, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Not great, Sam, it's not great. One remember later recalled

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<v Speaker 2>to a reporter, I believe one percent that she was

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<v Speaker 2>going to rise from the dead. On their local access

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<v Speaker 2>TV show, Tony gave daily sermons promising his wife would

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<v Speaker 2>be reborn any day now. It became a joke for

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<v Speaker 2>local radio DJs, who reported on this while repeatedly playing

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<v Speaker 2>wake Up Little Susie. That's some good DJ. That's some

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<v Speaker 2>good radio DJ shade.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, you can yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you can just see how you'd cut this together

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<v Speaker 2>though in like the HBO version of this story, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>do a little montage or something. Unfortunately, it also gets

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<v Speaker 2>very creepy, very fast, because one thing that Tony demands

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<v Speaker 2>is he wants the children in the cult. He makes

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<v Speaker 2>them cuddle with Susan's body at night. Yeah, I know

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is bad.

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<v Speaker 3>What again, he's serial killers?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Those those kids went through it. We'll say that much, right.

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<v Speaker 2>One of them, Elijah Franco, weeks later said she smelled,

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<v Speaker 2>she was cold and really really hard. She was dead,

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<v Speaker 2>which I feel like we didn't need at the end there,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it's just good to reinforce that to yourself

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<v Speaker 2>when you've been told for six months that she's alive.

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<v Speaker 3>So was this doing an interview like, yeah, you're so

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<v Speaker 3>like you slept with a dead body? Tell us about

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<v Speaker 3>that experience you grew up with thom Sorry, yeah, no, Yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think that that's basically what it was. Is like because

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<v Speaker 2>eventually there are court cases and eventually there's prosecution, and

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these kids get out and then go

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<v Speaker 2>talk to the media about like because these are the

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<v Speaker 2>folks who were not they were true believers in that

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<v Speaker 2>they were kids raised in this cult. But they also

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<v Speaker 2>they're not converts. Right. If you grow up, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in a different religion somewhere, and you convert to something

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<v Speaker 2>like this, you tend to stick with it for a

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<v Speaker 2>long time, whereas a lot of these kids raised in this,

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<v Speaker 2>like as soon as they can, Like, I'm getting the

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<v Speaker 2>fuck out of this place. The fuck is wrong with

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<v Speaker 2>these people and my parents Jesus. Yeah, so this goes on,

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<v Speaker 2>This whole corpse thing goes on for six months.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I was waiting for six days.

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<v Speaker 2>No no, no, like a like a wildly long time,

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<v Speaker 2>and the body was okay, no, no, no, it's not okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's very, very gross. Greta Allendorff writes that every

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<v Speaker 2>day Susan remained dead, the children were beaten. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>even worse than just the things about this that are

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<v Speaker 2>obviously gross, because the kids are being physically punished for

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<v Speaker 2>not bringing this woman back from the dead. Good cult stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Dead lady.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I don't know what's supposed to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she was supposed to come back to Tony.

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<v Speaker 3>Like like by the kids like laying on her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I think something like that. I think something like that.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, this is where I need adult supervision. What the hell?

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<v Speaker 2>What the fuck right? No, this is we are now

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<v Speaker 2>in rarefied colt Air. We do a lot of cults,

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<v Speaker 2>but this is some of the cultiest cult stuff we've

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<v Speaker 2>ever culted on this podcast. Yeah, fascinating stuff, incredible work Tony. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is you know, you got to give him

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<v Speaker 2>some credit for personal growth. He comes to accept that

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<v Speaker 2>his wife is dead, right you know, oh yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>was joking. That's not great. I mean, I guess it is.

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<v Speaker 2>But you don't have to give breaks Amos conceding, So

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<v Speaker 2>he has his followers build an elaborate mausoleum for her,

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<v Speaker 2>which included a grave for him. So apparently at this

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<v Speaker 2>point he came to accept his own mortality. Now that

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<v Speaker 2>susan And was gone, he began to adapt other parts

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<v Speaker 2>of his life to this new reality, which ended with

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<v Speaker 2>him launching a new and shockingly successful business for the ministry.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not ready for wear this head, Samantha. I was

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<v Speaker 2>not ready for where this head. This is a unique

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<v Speaker 2>cult business, right. We talked about cult businesses a lot

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<v Speaker 2>on this show. Restaurants are common, right, bands are weirdly common.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the Mansons tried to do that, right, you get,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Tony Alamo does kind of that version of things. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>fucking David Koresh was a musician, you know, right. What's

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<v Speaker 2>weird is like launching through your cult an incredibly popular

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<v Speaker 2>fashion brand. That is beloved by the most famous people

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<v Speaker 2>on earth, which is what Tony does next. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>shocking stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>He launches a clothing brand.

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<v Speaker 2>He does he does high fashion too. It's extremely successful.

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<v Speaker 2>How successful. Yeah, it's Hollister. This is where Hollister comes from.

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Alamo invented Hollister. No, so the the answer like,

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<v Speaker 2>because Tony's got to ask himself, Hey, you know, as

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<v Speaker 2>a pedophile cult leader who has just been reminded of

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<v Speaker 2>his mortality, what's the next thing to do? And the answer,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously is forced children to labor for free manufacturing high

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<v Speaker 2>quality but dazzled denim vests and jackets for celebrities, which

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<v Speaker 2>is exactly what he does. They are These have like

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<v Speaker 2>in rhinestones and Swarovsky diamonds, like the La skyline on them,

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<v Speaker 2>or like Nashville. They are the tackiest fucking jackets that

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<v Speaker 2>have ever been made. I think some of them are

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<v Speaker 2>stone wars of them are clearly like black denim or leather.

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<v Speaker 2>Even they're not just denim, but there's a lot of denim. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is by now we're in the eighties, right, maybe.

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<v Speaker 3>Dazzel, but Dazzle did their thing. Yeah, so this makes sense,

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<v Speaker 3>also is kind of horrifying. Yeah, who wore this?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Everyone? So he designs each product himself and sells

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<v Speaker 2>them under the brand name Tony Alamo of Nashville. And

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<v Speaker 2>despite that name, their big market is in Hollywood, particularly

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<v Speaker 2>rich and famous people who wanted clothing that delivered a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of Southern charm and credibility. Tony Alamo jackets

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<v Speaker 2>took off initially with the Grand Ole Opry set, but

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<v Speaker 2>in short order they become like the most desired fashion

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<v Speaker 2>item in the music industry. According to an article by

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<v Speaker 2>Lindy Fraser of The Chantel Clear, Alamo said he used

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<v Speaker 2>children when he realized their quote hands were the perfect

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<v Speaker 2>size to embellish the jackets with tiny rhinestones.

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<v Speaker 3>Now why do they all say this?

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<v Speaker 2>Given all of that, it might not surprise you to

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<v Speaker 2>hear that one of the brand's biggest fans was a

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<v Speaker 2>man famous for being responsible around small children. Have you

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<v Speaker 2>guessed who it is?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I can't.

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<v Speaker 2>Michael Jackson. That's right, baby, And in fact, if you

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<v Speaker 2>want the most famous touchstone, Michael Jackson wears a Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Alamo jacket on the cover of Bad That's a Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Alamo original. On the cover of Bad.

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<v Speaker 3>There's so many things to this.

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<v Speaker 2>Why Oh well, I think there's a couple of reasons why,

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<v Speaker 2>given some things that we've learned about Michael in the

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<v Speaker 2>intervening years. But it is when I realized it was

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<v Speaker 2>that he the jacket from Bad was a Tony Alamo

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<v Speaker 2>er blew my fucking mind.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's gonna take me a minute.

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<v Speaker 2>That's gonna take a second. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>The fact that that means he had to have sold

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<v Speaker 3>so many more after the pot.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah. Oh. These are a massive brand. These

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<v Speaker 2>are incredibly successful, and Michael is the most famous person

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<v Speaker 2>on earth at this point in like the fucking mid

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<v Speaker 2>early to mid eighties, so he is probably the most

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<v Speaker 2>famous person to wear a Tony Alamo original. But he's

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<v Speaker 2>got real competition. And I want to quote from an

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<v Speaker 2>article on the brand in the La Times. He makes

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<v Speaker 2>jackets for all the stars, said Shirley Blinner, a saleswoman

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<v Speaker 2>at Twist, a boutique on Melrose Avenue, where three Alamo

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<v Speaker 2>jackets were on sale last week for prices ranging from

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<v Speaker 2>three hundred and sixty dollars to six hundred and eighty dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Blinner pointed to a display of photographs behind the cash

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<v Speaker 2>register of mister T, Mike Tyson, Hulk Cogan, and Dolly Parton,

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<v Speaker 2>all wearing what appeared to be a Lamo design jackets.

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<v Speaker 3>I was waiting for her name, but by mister T

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<v Speaker 3>to cut off gene.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister T. Oh, oh my god, Samantha. I would not

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<v Speaker 2>be doing my job as the host of this podcast

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.480
<v Speaker 2>if I did not show you the picture I have

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 2>of mister T wearing a Tony Alamo original standing next

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:52.840
<v Speaker 2>to Tony Alamo himself. Hmmm, oh man, it is if

0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 2>you're a big mister T fan like I am, a

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.640
<v Speaker 2>harsh moment of the soul here look at them.

0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Look at the two of them together.

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.280
<v Speaker 2>That him, that's him. That's Tony.

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:09.360
<v Speaker 3>Off brand like country musicians, like he looks like Haggard,

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Like the.

0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Hell if Merle Haggard had let his drinking get even

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 2>more away from him, right, like, yeah, if Merle Haggard

0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 2>had been doing his body weight in cocaine. Yeah. So

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.040
<v Speaker 2>there's this picture. They're both wearing these just I gotta say,

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>hideous denim jackets like these are the Michael's you know,

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.480
<v Speaker 2>the jacket from Bad looks good on Michael, you know,

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>like that's that's a that's a that's a look iconic.

0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I do not understand these denim jackets that mister T

0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:40.560
<v Speaker 2>and Tony are wearing.

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 3>Here again, mister T, I remember him with a cut

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.400
<v Speaker 3>off jean jacket, Like that's what I am picturing.

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:50.959
<v Speaker 4>When you say, mister it's like American. Yeah, no, it's

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 4>not a huge leap, right, And this is mister T

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 4>younger maybe certainly worst judgment. Let's all assume that modern

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.440
<v Speaker 4>mister T wouldn't make this same mistake. But yeah, the

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.840
<v Speaker 4>picture I've got, which will we'll put up that this

0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 4>will probably be the background of one of the parts

0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 4>of this episode. But it just says mister T pictured

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.520
<v Speaker 4>here with pastor Tony Alamo. Both are wearing Tony Alamo

0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.079
<v Speaker 4>designer jackets, which are worn by thousands of actors, entertainers,

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 4>recording artists, sports figures, presidents, politicians, kings, queens, princes, princesses,

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 4>and others who are able to afford them. I don't

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 4>know which presidents wore the these. I haven't found that information,

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 4>but I can. I'm very curious.

0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Prince Charleston, Queen Elizabeth has one of these things. But

0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Queen Elizabeth had it because she would not buy a

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 2>jacket if she didn't know child labor had gone into it.

0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, that was the question. How is it market

0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 3>It was? It marketed as just a hands owned from

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 3>this church.

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>It's marketed with that line. Their little hands can put

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>the ryanstones on best.

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 3>The only way we could fit the tiny stones on

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 3>there above the.

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Tag we don't pay the children.

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 3>They pay us by Yeah, they pay us with their labor,

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, for with dead bodies.

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and cuddling with dead bodies. Now. In addition

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 2>to jackets, Alamo's clothing line sold sharkskin boots, leopard skin jackets,

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>and sequin gowns, often including Swarovski crystals and diamonds as

0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 2>a koutramas. To beyond that, his ministry expanded to control

0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 2>a string of gas stations in the area around the

0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 2>towns of Dire and Alma, Alabama. They ran a hog farm,

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 2>grocery stores, and a concert venue, as well as a

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 2>restaurant where a young Bill Clinton once watched Dolly Parton perform.

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 2>The number of famous people who are just like bit

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 2>parts in the fucking Tony Alamo story unreal.

0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.760
<v Speaker 3>So did people not realize it was a cult. They

0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 3>just assumed it was just a foundation and a children's

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.200
<v Speaker 3>home or like a halfway house type of thing at

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:54.359
<v Speaker 3>the at this point.

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>At this point, there are some people who have left.

0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 2>If you really wanted to look, you could find some

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 2>al legations, right, but there's no lawsuits yet, no one

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 2>like the the the There aren't any like major cases

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.120
<v Speaker 2>about like the worst things. There's this is right around

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the period of time where there are some lawsuits about them,

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 2>like not paying workers, but the the worst stuff hasn't

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 2>really come out yet. Sore that said, when it does,

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 2>they keep selling the jackets. So I'm not letting anyone

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>off the hook for the fucking jacket thing because they

0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 2>keep being a popular product even when he's on the

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.720
<v Speaker 2>run from the FBI as well done. Really yes, yes,

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>it's amazing stuff.

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:41.840
<v Speaker 3>It is still named then jacket Jacket Company, and people like, yeah,

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 3>I really need that. He's they're not gonna make it anymore.

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 3>I have to have one. It's a little bit of addition, Sam.

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 2>He think about it this way, if if Osama bin

0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Laden had sewn had like been selling jinkos while he

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.200
<v Speaker 2>was on the run, I would have wanted a pair

0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 2>of those jinkos, the bin laden jinkosh my go.

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, maybe you could resurrect him from the dead.

0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 3>All you gotta do is cuddle him.

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right.

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 3>I think we can write this work for you.

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna have to go to the sea. In his

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.920
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five book My Life, Clinton described Tony

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Alamo as Roy Orbison on speed, a description that doesn't

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.240
<v Speaker 2>make a lot of sense to me, because we listened

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.960
<v Speaker 2>to him and he's not a fast singing or speaking guy.

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why he just yeah.

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.439
<v Speaker 3>Maybe he needs to speed, right. Oh no, that's what

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 3>he sounds like.

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what he sounds like. And he kind of

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>sounds like a slower Johnny Cash to me, who also

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>sucks at singing. Anyway, I don't know why Bill describes

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:39.360
<v Speaker 2>him this way.

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.160
<v Speaker 3>Maybe we heard him preach.

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I have heard him preach, and.

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 3>So he's still that slow.

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.160
<v Speaker 2>He's faster, but he's not like a as somebody's watched

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like preachers who are definitely coke feeds.

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 2>He's not like that fast right spirit. And I was

0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna say, maybe Bill Clinton doesn't know much about speed,

0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 2>but Bill Clinton definitely knew a lot about speed. Young

0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.919
<v Speaker 2>Bill couldn't do it. Knew a little bit about speed.

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.879
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you that much right now.

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:06.080
<v Speaker 3>He knows a lot of things.

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he knows a lot of things you shouldn't. So

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Tony may not have been on speed, but he did

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 2>demand speed from his laborers, who, from early childhood on

0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.239
<v Speaker 2>were dosed with vitamins and massive amounts of caffeine in

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 2>order to meet tight labor deadlines. While he lounged by

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.399
<v Speaker 2>the heart shaped pool he and Susan had purchased with

0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 2>his new child brides. We'll get to that, his follower

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.560
<v Speaker 2>slept in sleeping bags on the floor in crowded meeting rooms.

0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Workers owned five dollars a day. Shifts could last as

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 2>long as twenty hours. I think there were just twelve

0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 2>to fifteen on average. But you know, when there's a

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 2>big when mister T needs a bunch of jackets, you know,

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 2>you make that shit happen.

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 3>You gotta make it happen.

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>You've got to make it.

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 3>Calls, you got show coming come.

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, within a few years of Susan passing, Tony

0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 2>started seeking companionship, and while Susan had to begin been

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 2>like ten years older than him. Chris's experience that Susan's

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.880
<v Speaker 2>daughter had been an early because again Tony rapes her, right,

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and that was an when she's like fourteen or fifteen,

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.959
<v Speaker 2>that was an early warning that Tony's preferences skewed much younger.

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.679
<v Speaker 2>And he starts chaking taking child brides. I think he

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.400
<v Speaker 2>starts with sixteen seventeen year olds, but like every year,

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 2>he'll go down a couple of years in terms of

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:24.159
<v Speaker 2>like what's acceptable to him, right, and it's going to

0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>get very young, right. An article for THHV two News

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.960
<v Speaker 2>notes quote in an old radio program, Alama once said

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.560
<v Speaker 2>that when women start their periods, then they are women.

0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 2>According to God's word, they should be able to be

0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 2>married at thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and in some cases if

0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.399
<v Speaker 2>they have menstruateed already at twelve years old. So like

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.960
<v Speaker 2>capital P pedophile, we're talking.

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah for sure, but you know, this does go along

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.960
<v Speaker 3>the biblical ideals. And that's also why a lot of

0:19:54.960 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 3>the states in the US have not banned child Yeah. So,

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 3>and I'm sure Arkansas is probably one of those places.

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.479
<v Speaker 2>No. No, And in fact, were those explicitly legal to marry,

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:09.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, fourteen year olds and.

0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.160
<v Speaker 3>A lot of the twelve does the mama say, yeah.

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Younger than is allowed anywhere. But I don't actually want

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.359
<v Speaker 2>to be quoted on that because I might be wrong.

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.960
<v Speaker 2>But you're right, Like there is a biblical basis for

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 2>what Tony is saying. Right, He's able to cite passages

0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>from the Bible in justification of the things he's doing. Now,

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 2>I will say, by the time he reaches his apex,

0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.400
<v Speaker 2>twelve is going to be old for him. But we're

0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:38.359
<v Speaker 2>getting there, Samantha. Let's distract ourselves with some ads first, though.

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 2>We're back. How you doing.

0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm just, honestly, the problem I have is knowing that

0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 3>this man, if he was under trial now, guarantee, he'd

0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.119
<v Speaker 3>be fine. Yeah, oh yeah, he would be so fine,

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Like he would be probably be in office and or

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 3>an advisor at this point, Like that's just the level

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.280
<v Speaker 3>he has gone that well, oh yeah.

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.639
<v Speaker 2>I think he could have people marching in the streets

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.440
<v Speaker 2>with guns protecting him, for sure. I mean, he does

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.280
<v Speaker 2>get that. It's just that it kind of pisses off

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 2>everyone around him because America's in a little bit of

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 2>a different place at this time. So as Tony gets older,

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 2>his beliefs on the proper age to marry a girl

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.480
<v Speaker 2>get looser. He moves the age limit down to tin,

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.200
<v Speaker 2>arguing that as long as a girl had started to menstruate,

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the men around her didn't just have the right, but

0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a duty to marry her off quote and again, when

0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.000
<v Speaker 2>you say there's a biblical basis, here's his argument. God

0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.879
<v Speaker 2>impregnated Mary when she was about eleven years old. So

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the government, idiots, the people that don't know the Bible,

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 2>what you're going to have to do is get a

0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 2>hold of God. Now you're gonna have to get up

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:54.879
<v Speaker 2>there and cuff him and send him to prisatory for

0:21:54.920 --> 0:22:00.520
<v Speaker 2>statutory rape. And yeah, if God fucked an eleven year old, yeah,

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.119
<v Speaker 2>he's thousands speak of a power imbalance.

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 3>He's also God, right right, there's well, I mean that's

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:10.520
<v Speaker 3>the point.

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 2>I know there's a lot of debate as to the

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:14.440
<v Speaker 2>ages and stuff here.

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I mean, like in general, like he's also

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 3>a god obviously. Maybe he didn't resurrect his wife, maybe

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.840
<v Speaker 3>he didn't for a plan to impregnate adolescence.

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.960
<v Speaker 2>And it's this whole thing like I I can remember

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 2>because I grew up you know, in and around evangelicals

0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 2>in the post nine to eleven period constantly hearing about

0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.640
<v Speaker 2>how the fundamental evil of Islam was that it allowed

0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.239
<v Speaker 2>fourteen mom and married like a fourteen year old girl

0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.240
<v Speaker 2>a twelve year old girl, something like that. You know,

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 2>that's okay in this religion. That's part of like the

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.640
<v Speaker 2>reason why it's But like you, if you you can

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>look at any religious text from that period and find

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.080
<v Speaker 2>a justification for fucking a little kid, right, that's just

0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the reality, in part because of the time period in

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.359
<v Speaker 2>which those things were written. Ultimately, my stance is that

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:06.119
<v Speaker 2>outside of specifics of the faith that they claim to be,

0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>people who want to fuck kids find a reason to

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.440
<v Speaker 2>justify fucking kids, right, And.

0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 3>People who want to put those people on pedestals will

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 3>justify why this is okay? Sure exactly people for that

0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:18.480
<v Speaker 3>group of people.

0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, we met Gates. Matt, He's fine, he's great, exactly,

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Matt Gates. We call this the Matt Gates coda. Right,

0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 2>so right up for the splc continues. It's a theme

0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that Alamo keeps coming back to. In a radio show

0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Justice February twenty fourth, the preacher cited that the alleged

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 2>promiscuity of first graders as grounds for marrying them before

0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.439
<v Speaker 2>the illegal age of consent. I found out from people's

0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 2>parents that their daughter having started having sex when she

0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 2>was six years old and had sex every day of

0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 2>her life, he said at one point, So right there,

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>by the time she's fifteen years old, she's had sex

0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 2>thousands of times. I mean, this is just reality, the

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.320
<v Speaker 2>alternate reality you have to like create for yourself to

0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:58.920
<v Speaker 2>exist within these things. And people have to listen to

0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 2>him be talking about like year olds having sex thousands

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.359
<v Speaker 2>of times and be like, yeah, that's how that's the

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:09.359
<v Speaker 2>that's the way things work. I never seen a child,

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>but this seems accurate. Like, oh my god, I think

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.280
<v Speaker 2>some of it is literally a lot of these people

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.440
<v Speaker 2>will justify you see, like a kid, like look at

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:21.640
<v Speaker 2>another kid of the opposite section. You're like, well, that's

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.600
<v Speaker 2>basically sex, right, right, I don't know, I don't know

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:29.359
<v Speaker 2>fully what, Like, there's a lot to dig into here,

0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.440
<v Speaker 2>but like, this is some of the most vile pedophile

0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 2>justification stuff I've ever heard. And this is not like

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.160
<v Speaker 2>a subject we cover, you know, sparingly on this show.

0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.199
<v Speaker 2>Because it turns out that like wherever you find the

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>worst people in a society, you'll find a lot of

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.440
<v Speaker 2>them finding reasons to justify having sex with little kids. Right,

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 2>just a thing that keeps happening. It happens with Christians,

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.720
<v Speaker 2>it happens on the left. It happens and every religion

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.879
<v Speaker 2>and every political movement. It happens all the time with

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:04.280
<v Speaker 2>conservative Christians. It's just a uh I I. It's these

0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:07.160
<v Speaker 2>people are predators, and predators are good at taking advantage

0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:10.199
<v Speaker 2>of power dynamics. Tony's a predator who wound up at

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 2>the head of a cult, and he understands how to

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.400
<v Speaker 2>manipulate people. And as time goes on and he's kind

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 2>of freed further from any influence of his dead wife,

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.280
<v Speaker 2>he gets more and more extreme with the things he's

0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:24.000
<v Speaker 2>willing to justify to his followers, and he keeps getting

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:26.119
<v Speaker 2>away with it, so he keeps going further.

0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Right. My question though, is that the wife wasn't necessarily

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 3>trying to protect the children as much as she was

0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.080
<v Speaker 3>jealous of the children she's with their daughter. Yeah, she

0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 3>was like upset with the daughter for seducing her husband

0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:39.439
<v Speaker 3>at such an age.

0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Give her credit.

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're right, But this is that conversation is that

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 3>no one really takes responsibility because they're just like, well,

0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.080
<v Speaker 3>he's the one bad character we didn't know better. But

0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 3>the thing is, yeah you did, Yeah you did. You're

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 3>the parent or the people who are like, watch these

0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 3>children grow up or haven't grown up. And then that's like, oh,

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.560
<v Speaker 3>everything about this and the fact that this continues to

0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:09.040
<v Speaker 3>be a justifiable conversation, as if eventually someone will believe

0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 3>me and I agree with me. Yeah, it works, they do.

0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep, yeah, and it works for him for way

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:21.000
<v Speaker 2>too long. In nineteen ninety three, he releases a tract

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:24.479
<v Speaker 2>titled the Polygamists, where he justifies his behavior by arguing

0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the Holy Scriptures proclaim polygamy to be righteous, and he's

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 2>doing a lot of what like the there's a chunk

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 2>of the Mormons, the FLDS Church very similar justifications for

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 2>polygamy and for fucking kids. You know that you find

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.440
<v Speaker 2>between the two of them very similar to the kind

0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 2>of stuff David Koresh is saying. Right, because David Koresh

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 2>is a friend of his, right, of course, of course,

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 2>of course these guys get along.

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.160
<v Speaker 3>Wait, I would think that because he would be older

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:54.680
<v Speaker 3>than David Koresh. Right, I'm trying to geh. Oh, Yeah,

0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 3>I think he's a bit he's maybe he was mentoring

0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 3>this dude at this point.

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a bit of that going on. I

0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know how Koresh because obviously Koresh is no longer

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:07.399
<v Speaker 2>able to give interviews, so I'm not sure one hundred

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:10.679
<v Speaker 2>percent how David would have described what their relationship was.

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.600
<v Speaker 2>But we'll talk about a little later how Tony describes it.

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>In a broadcast for his TV network, talking about polygamy,

0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Tony expounded, they're condemning polygamy when it's never condemned. God

0:27:21.080 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>never says no polygamist shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 2>But these bastards, these homosexual Vaticanites, they condone homosexuals, and

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.160
<v Speaker 2>they condemn marriage and a man that would take care

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.679
<v Speaker 2>of his They say, you're a polygamist that I married

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:35.120
<v Speaker 2>too many wives will find out prove it. And even

0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:38.879
<v Speaker 2>if I was, there's no law in the Bible against it. Now,

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:41.480
<v Speaker 2>as you may be noticing here, Tony saved much of

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:44.120
<v Speaker 2>his hatred for gay people and the Catholic Church who

0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 2>thought wear the same thing. And we're responsible for both Nazism, communism,

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:52.119
<v Speaker 2>and pornography, all of it could be traced back to

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:56.080
<v Speaker 2>the Vaticans, and while Tony didn't get along with the Catholics,

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>he could be open minded when it came to other

0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 2>cult leaders. He was friends, particularly with David Koresh. Tony

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:05.159
<v Speaker 2>told an interviewer that David was quote like a brother

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:08.239
<v Speaker 2>to me. No, I don't know. Does that mean they

0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:10.679
<v Speaker 2>were really super frie Did he just see some value

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.159
<v Speaker 2>because these guys are preaching similar things vis a VI

0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>pedophilia and polygamy. I don't know. It's hard to say

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.479
<v Speaker 2>precisely how much money came into the cult because Tony

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:23.960
<v Speaker 2>was not a fan of paying taxes. I know you're

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:27.679
<v Speaker 2>going to be shocked by that, right, the foundation and

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.639
<v Speaker 2>again the church doesn't have to pay taxes because that's

0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:35.680
<v Speaker 2>how churches work, unfortunately, But like his massively successful business

0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:38.040
<v Speaker 2>is business selling denim vest to mister t has to

0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 2>pay taxes?

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Does it it was under like the actual umbrella of

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 3>his cult that he still does.

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, because it's not I mean like it's an

0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:49.920
<v Speaker 2>actual like business, you know, like Tony's arguing it shouldn't

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 2>have to, but the irs will feel differently. We know

0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:58.000
<v Speaker 2>that from nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy six, the foundations

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.960
<v Speaker 2>reported income went from forty six one thousand dollars a

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.480
<v Speaker 2>year to one point three million dollars a year. And again,

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>this is nineteen seventies money. It is obvious under reporting

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>the Colt's numerous businesses and fleet of cadillacts would have

0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 2>required much more than this and income to maintain. What

0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:17.360
<v Speaker 2>got Tony in trouble for the first time was the

0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Fair Laboral Standards Act. No matter how many Fire and

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Brimstone speeches about how Tony gave, some number of his

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:26.479
<v Speaker 2>followers left each year, and as they re entered the

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 2>real world, some of them caught on to the fact

0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 2>that Tony had actually broken the law by not paying them.

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Some of these people wound up talking to the government,

0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:37.200
<v Speaker 2>and in nineteen seventy six the Department of Labor sued

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 2>the Foundation for exploiting workers. It alleged that they'd been

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.480
<v Speaker 2>made to work twelve to fifteen hours a day, six

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 2>to seven days a week without salary. Now that starts

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:48.760
<v Speaker 2>in seventy six, but the case takes a decade to

0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:52.320
<v Speaker 2>wind to conclusion. Right, this is not a fast moving case,

0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 2>and it reaches the Supreme Court this is the Supreme Court,

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 2>here's this case and rules nine to zero that workers,

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 2>even an cult, are entitled to minimum wage and overtime benefits,

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:06.960
<v Speaker 2>which you would think, Oh, good, Tony's going to have

0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:11.200
<v Speaker 2>to pay everybody now he does not. He finds workarounds,

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 2>He delays payments as long as possible, and he orchestrates

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 2>ways to recoup the money. Now that he was paying

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.360
<v Speaker 2>his workers a legal salary. What he would do is

0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.360
<v Speaker 2>every couple of weeks he would give everyone their paychecks

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and then they would have a big to do of

0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 2>everyone handing their paychecks back as donations to the church.

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Right tithing. Right, That's what I would.

0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Say, exactly, one hundred percent tithes. Still, the case had

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 2>been as high profile as cases get, which drew the

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 2>attention of federal law enforcement. So at this point Tony

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:47.760
<v Speaker 2>has gotten sued, He's lost his case. It takes ten

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:50.720
<v Speaker 2>years for him to lose his case, but nothing really

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:54.000
<v Speaker 2>changes about the way the colt actually operates its business.

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 2>In the early nineteen nineties, Tony and the Tony and

0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:02.240
<v Speaker 2>Susie Alamo Susan Alamo Foundation embarks on a bold new scam,

0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:05.760
<v Speaker 2>one that was surprisingly petty given the other businesses operated

0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 2>by the cold but it gives you the level of

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 2>contempt that they have both for like Christian charity and

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>for the law. And I want to read a quote

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>from an article by NBC News. Peter and Georgiadas of Pittsburgh,

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 2>lawyer who sued Alamo on behalf of EX Followers in

0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 2>the nineties, said ministry workers accepted donations of food near

0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:27.480
<v Speaker 2>its expiration dates, wiped off the dates, and resold the

0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 2>items to grocers. It's plain, flat out fraud, the lawyer said.

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Mary Koker, who helped X Followers contact federal agents, said

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that the ministry has been selling outdated government donated food

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.959
<v Speaker 2>since it moved to FUK in the nineteen nineties. So

0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 2>part one of their businesses is taking food donations and

0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 2>then operating a business to sell to grocery stores expired

0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:52.440
<v Speaker 2>foods that had been donated for free.

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm not gonna lie that's a hustle.

0:31:55.160 --> 0:31:58.480
<v Speaker 2>That's a hustle, huz these people. You know, he's got

0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of minds working for There's a lot of

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.440
<v Speaker 2>dudes who's only thought every day is how can we

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>make more money for Tony Alamo? And they keep coming

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 2>up with ways.

0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:08.959
<v Speaker 3>You know that is I would have never thought of that.

0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 3>There's a reasonable grocery stores model. Yeah, but like grocery

0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:17.320
<v Speaker 3>stores actually buying from them, that's I guess at different times.

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:18.680
<v Speaker 3>It's different times.

0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:22.560
<v Speaker 2>It definitely was. In nineteen ninety one, the fence carried

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.280
<v Speaker 2>out a raid on Alamo's HQ and Georgia Ridge. He

0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:27.560
<v Speaker 2>had enough warning that he was able to flee ahead

0:32:27.600 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 2>of the authorities, along with most of his valuable property.

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:33.840
<v Speaker 2>The cops who raided his place found piles of bibles,

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:39.240
<v Speaker 2>eighty two pews, fifteen hundred Alamo jackets, photos of Tony

0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 2>with Larry Hackman, and dozens of mirrors, But they did

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:47.680
<v Speaker 2>not find Susan's body. That's the mausoleum had been smashed open.

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 3>Wait so wait her body's missing now?

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah missing?

0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:56.360
<v Speaker 3>Wait what what are we trying to resurrect? Our two

0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 3>point zero was? It's like, no, what's happening.

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:04.400
<v Speaker 2>It's so much pettier than that. So Chris, Susan's daughter,

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 2>despite how much her mom had abused her, still loved

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:10.920
<v Speaker 2>her mom and wanted to give her a proper burial.

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 2>And Tony hates this girl so once she sues him,

0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 2>being like, you have to give me my mom's body.

0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 2>He has his followers steal it away and store the

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 2>corpse in a storage unit to hide her. It would

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 2>take like seven years for Chris to win the right

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 2>to have her mom's body returned and reburied. Alama was

0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 2>eventually ordered to pay one hundred thousand dollars in damages.

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:36.760
<v Speaker 2>But like, that's it's just he's not even trying to

0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:38.680
<v Speaker 2>raise her from the dead. He's just trying to keep

0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>her from being buried where her daughter can be a

0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 2>part of it. Because he's a real piece of shit. Yeah,

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:46.760
<v Speaker 2>very some reason.

0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 3>I feel like she would Susan would have enjoyed that

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 3>her daughter after death.

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Also that yes, yes, Tony probably was following her wishes.

0:33:57.440 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Tony spent the first half of the nineteen nineties on

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.479
<v Speaker 2>a run from the law. The FBI put out wanted

0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>posters for him, which stated Alamo is always accompanied by

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 2>bodyguards who have access to numerous weapons, to include M

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>fourteen rifles. He is known to be hostile to law

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.920
<v Speaker 2>enforcement and is considered armed and dangerous. Now that's all true.

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.640
<v Speaker 2>What's wild to me is while he is on the run,

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:25.120
<v Speaker 2>his followers keep making jackets, and he keeps designing them.

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:28.880
<v Speaker 2>He uses a fax machine to skin send sketches from

0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 2>his Heidi Holes to different manufacturing facilities. He gains the.

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:37.959
<v Speaker 3>Way they fought, the parents are making their children still

0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 3>make these jackets. Oh he's still the children.

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, it's still primarily the children. Yes, And

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>he keeps giving interviews to journalists about the jackets. He

0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:51.919
<v Speaker 2>even visits his Hollywood storefront while he's on the run

0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>from the FBI. He tells the La Times everything I

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.239
<v Speaker 2>do is a work of art. I do the designs

0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 2>wherever I'm at. And there's this this La Times article

0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:05.359
<v Speaker 2>that I'm going to be quoting from is amazing because

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 2>it's like he's talking to the people who are running

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.440
<v Speaker 2>these shops selling these jackets, being like, but you know,

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.879
<v Speaker 2>like he's on the run for a bunch of crimes, right,

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Like kids have accused him of molesting them. He's on

0:35:16.480 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 2>the FBI's most wanted list. Why are you still selling

0:35:20.120 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 2>his jackets right and happening?

0:35:25.040 --> 0:35:26.320
<v Speaker 3>Why? Oh my god.

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:30.600
<v Speaker 2>The La Times is reporting indicated that Alamo jackets continue

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:34.360
<v Speaker 2>to be manufactured in California, New York, and primarily Arkansas.

0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:37.719
<v Speaker 2>No one working at any of these factories received any pay,

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and apparently nothing meaningful had changed after that nineteen eighty

0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:44.200
<v Speaker 2>five ruling. Quote. One former member who left the cult

0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 2>last year said working conditions at Alamo clothing shops have

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:50.120
<v Speaker 2>changed little since the ruling. The former member, who asked

0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 2>not to be identified, said he has seen young children

0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:55.439
<v Speaker 2>working in the shops with their parents. Workers were paid

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:57.920
<v Speaker 2>only a five dollars a week stipend, plus room and

0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:02.120
<v Speaker 2>boarded in the Lamo commune, he said. Now the article

0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:05.480
<v Speaker 2>struck a bemused tone, veering from these store owners and

0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:08.880
<v Speaker 2>customers praising the artistry of the jackets. We felt differently

0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:13.320
<v Speaker 2>about rhyin Stones back then to former cult members describing

0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 2>the labor conditions as that of an unpaid sweatshop that

0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 2>primarily employed children. One question about this, Tony told a reporter,

0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:24.239
<v Speaker 2>the clothing is so groovy. Everyone wants it, no matter

0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:27.600
<v Speaker 2>what they think I am. No matter what, the superstars

0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:29.080
<v Speaker 2>are gonna want my jackets.

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:33.440
<v Speaker 3>First of all, the voice is fantastic. Did he take

0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:35.920
<v Speaker 3>all like hippie speak in order to like sell this?

0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 3>After all?

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he comes out of that world, you know, I

0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 2>think he is. At one point I think in the

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:43.080
<v Speaker 2>late sixties he probably was trying his hand at being

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:45.560
<v Speaker 2>a hippie. You know, he's in La around that time.

0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.560
<v Speaker 3>I guess hippie and Jean Jacket Denham maybe they didn't

0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:49.160
<v Speaker 3>go hand in hand.

0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know sure he is in all. This whole

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:54.880
<v Speaker 2>cult is shrapnel of the hippie movement, right the hippie

0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>movement doesn't really change anything. A lot of people wind

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.040
<v Speaker 2>up on the street and mentally damaged in the after

0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:04.399
<v Speaker 2>shocks of the anti war movement in the Summer of Love.

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:08.719
<v Speaker 2>And you know, Tony is Tony and his initial cult

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:14.680
<v Speaker 2>followers are those people. So being decent reporters, the La

0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Times Crew reached out to the FBI about the fact

0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 2>that this guy, who's apparently one of their most wanted

0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:23.720
<v Speaker 2>seems to still be selling gen jackets in Hollywood. Quote.

0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 2>FBI spokesman Jim Neilson said the bureau is continuing at

0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:31.359
<v Speaker 2>search for Alamo, but refuse to elaborate on the investigation. Now,

0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.840
<v Speaker 2>if you're thinking, boy, isn't the fact that this serial

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:38.719
<v Speaker 2>child molester and child traffick are manufacturing expensive clothing for

0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the most famous people on Earth and giving interviews will

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:43.760
<v Speaker 2>on the run from the FBI. Isn't that a hideous

0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 2>indictment of our federal law enforcement agencies? And my answer

0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:48.880
<v Speaker 2>would be, oh man, they were up to so much

0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 2>worse shit than this in the mid nineties. Bro, I

0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:57.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know what to tell you that this is actually

0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:00.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of low. Now, some of the money from jacket

0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:03.880
<v Speaker 2>sales was reinvested into the cult, primarily into the production

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 2>of vast numbers of flyers complaining that Tony was being

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>wrongfully targeted by the government on behalf of the Vatican.

0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:14.200
<v Speaker 2>His Christian soldiers, largely followers, braced out of his Sauga's compound,

0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 2>trolled the streets of Hollywood and West LA putting leaflets

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.480
<v Speaker 2>on the windshields of thousands of cars from that article.

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:24.480
<v Speaker 2>The leaflet's rambling denunciations claimed that the District Attorney's Office,

0:38:24.520 --> 0:38:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the Internal Revenue Service, and the Department of Labour are

0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:29.960
<v Speaker 2>linked to a terrorist plot against the Alamo Church led

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 2>by Pope John Paul the Second. The leaflets have become

0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:35.839
<v Speaker 2>a common sight on Los Angeles streets, with titles such

0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:39.640
<v Speaker 2>as government subversion against Alamo and Tony Alamo My side

0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:42.600
<v Speaker 2>of the story. They have at various times appeared littered

0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>along the sidewalk on Broadway and downtown Los Angeles, at

0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.040
<v Speaker 2>a county courthouse in Lancaster, and on the windshields of

0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>cars at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles International Airport. The

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:56.480
<v Speaker 2>leaflets bear the same sauga's phone number as glossy brochures

0:38:56.600 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 2>used by Alamo Designs to promote the sequin jackets. By

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.960
<v Speaker 2>dialing the number of callers can learn how to obtain

0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:06.680
<v Speaker 2>more of Alamo's religious literature, or which Los Angeles area

0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:11.600
<v Speaker 2>stores carry Alamo's jackets. You can get it all propaganda

0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 2>or the jacket. Michael Jackson, Warren Bad, same guy, what.

0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:21.799
<v Speaker 3>A deal, what a deal, A good conversation, and jackets,

0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:25.920
<v Speaker 3>beaded jackets on beaded jackets.

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's so funny how they would talk about rhinestones

0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like serious art, Like, oh my god, the rhinestones on

0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:34.600
<v Speaker 2>these are amazing.

0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Are so good.

0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:39.200
<v Speaker 2>What a special period of time that was for America.

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of special our sponsors, all of them, beautiful, special

0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 2>beat None of them are on the run from the FBI,

0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 2>hiding in the mountains. You know, that's not any of

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 2>our sponsors, except for maybe that food box company that

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:56.839
<v Speaker 2>just got caught with child labor stuff. Anyway, whatever, we'll

0:39:56.880 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 2>be back and we're back. So by this point, there

0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>are numerous reports in the media that Tony was molesting children.

0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I hate coming back on a line like that, but

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:15.319
<v Speaker 2>this is the story that it is, he argued on

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 2>his own TV program for polygamy and marriage of children

0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:21.440
<v Speaker 2>as young at twelve. Yet major stores, including Macy's and

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Bullocks continued to sell his jackets until they were literally

0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:27.839
<v Speaker 2>hounded by the press. These La Times reporters even came

0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:30.480
<v Speaker 2>up with a photo of Tony shaking hands with Los

0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Angeles Mayor Tim Bradley, and the picture was taken while

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Tony was on the FBI Most Wanted list. Wow, Bradley

0:40:40.600 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>told report. Bradley's spokesperson told reporters, I guess Alamo was

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:47.759
<v Speaker 2>known for his sequin jackets something else at this point too. Man,

0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what very La mayor thing to do, though, Like, look,

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:56.640
<v Speaker 2>famous people wear his stuff. I don't care what crimes

0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 2>he's committing.

0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:00.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, I mean, that's not like the Jaws moment. Yes,

0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:03.080
<v Speaker 3>pretend like no one's dead. No, pretend likely there's not

0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:05.400
<v Speaker 3>a giant shark attack. Were she gonna enjoy the summer.

0:41:05.640 --> 0:41:06.640
<v Speaker 3>Let's chill.

0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:09.759
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine the mayor from Jaws like arm in

0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:14.720
<v Speaker 2>arm with Tony Alamo very easy Now. While he evaded

0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.879
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement with almost comical ease, Tony continued to take

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 2>new brides. One of the oldest of them was a

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.279
<v Speaker 2>seventeen year old girl named Yale, who was married to

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 2>another man in the colt and gave birth in nineteen

0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:27.719
<v Speaker 2>ninety three while on the run with Tony in his

0:41:27.760 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 2>inner circle. As soon as she finished giving birth, Tony

0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:33.600
<v Speaker 2>kicked her husband out of the colt. Yale had to

0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:36.160
<v Speaker 2>beg to have him reinstated, and Tony told her he

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 2>would on one cognition, she'd have to marry him. From

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:43.760
<v Speaker 2>a write up by the SPLC, Alamo's five wives played

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:45.920
<v Speaker 2>with her young daughter in another room as she pondered

0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.520
<v Speaker 2>her fate. It's like having a loaded gun to your head,

0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:51.239
<v Speaker 2>she says, now, refusing, Alamo meant, not only might you

0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:53.200
<v Speaker 2>get beat half to death, but you'll go to hell

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:58.919
<v Speaker 2>on top of it. So pretty bleak, she says, Yes,

0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 2>the thing that you would expect happens. It's as awful

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:07.840
<v Speaker 2>as you would guess. It took Yale years to accept

0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that what happened was not consensual. But obviously she was

0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:14.759
<v Speaker 2>seventeen and he was sixty and the leader of her cult. Right,

0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:19.720
<v Speaker 2>So they're not married long and during their brief period

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:23.120
<v Speaker 2>because he is free for about a year after marrying

0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.360
<v Speaker 2>her before he finally gets caught. And during that brief

0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:28.840
<v Speaker 2>period he marries a nine year old girl and a

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:33.120
<v Speaker 2>ten year old girl. Here's how Yale described his grooming practice.

0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Every little girl starting to develop wants to feel beautiful,

0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.440
<v Speaker 2>and he was very good at making them feel that way.

0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:40.640
<v Speaker 2>He prayed on the fact that we were alienated from

0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 2>our parents. They worked and worked, and some of us

0:42:42.960 --> 0:42:44.880
<v Speaker 2>hadn't seen our parents in a very long time.

0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah that makes sense.

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:48.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I was, I mean.

0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.719
<v Speaker 3>To be fair in these cold situations, it doesn't matter

0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:54.960
<v Speaker 3>usually the parents, whether their present or not. They're somewhat

0:42:56.239 --> 0:42:59.680
<v Speaker 3>like complicit parts complicit again.

0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:01.719
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of these, Yeah.

0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:03.080
<v Speaker 3>But then like separating them makes a lot of sense,

0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:04.800
<v Speaker 3>which it does happen in a lot of cults.

0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it's it's pretty standard cult behavior, and I

0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:10.680
<v Speaker 2>mean it makes sense that that's how Tony works.

0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:14.239
<v Speaker 3>So he was okay with other people having multi relationships too,

0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:16.600
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't just him or did he do all the marrying.

0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's he's doing all the marrying. Yeah. Yeah, some

0:43:20.160 --> 0:43:22.920
<v Speaker 2>people are allowed to be married. But as Yale's get like,

0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:26.160
<v Speaker 2>you can get forcibly separated by him if he doesn't,

0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:30.439
<v Speaker 2>if he gets jealous of your relationship. In nineteen ninety four,

0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the year after their marriage, Tony was finally arrested in

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.239
<v Speaker 2>This is not going to surprise anyone, Florida, where he

0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.240
<v Speaker 2>had been living for most of the time he spent

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:42.280
<v Speaker 2>on the run under a fake name. He was convicted

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of tax fraud to the tune of nine million dollars

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and sentenced to six years in prison. Again, it was

0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:51.240
<v Speaker 2>evidence by this point that he was practicing polygamy with children.

0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:53.960
<v Speaker 2>But a year or so before his arrest in February

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:57.160
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety three, the BATF and the FBI had

0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.360
<v Speaker 2>had a bloody standoff with Tony's friend David Carey and

0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:03.040
<v Speaker 2>his cold outside of Waco. The whole thing had ended

0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:05.960
<v Speaker 2>with several dead agents, many dead coltists, and dozens of

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 2>dead children. The disaster at Waco, which came right off

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.400
<v Speaker 2>the heels of the bloody ATF standoff at Ruby Ridge

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.719
<v Speaker 2>had galvanized the American religious right against what they saw

0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.920
<v Speaker 2>as federal overreach. The fact that the Feds had fucked

0:44:18.960 --> 0:44:22.480
<v Speaker 2>up hideously and made a very bad situation even worse

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:25.080
<v Speaker 2>made all of this a lot more problematic, and the

0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:28.800
<v Speaker 2>FBI at all responded by pulling back from going after

0:44:28.880 --> 0:44:31.759
<v Speaker 2>figures like a Lamo, which is why I suspect no

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:34.719
<v Speaker 2>one did the fairly minimal work necessary to charge him

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.760
<v Speaker 2>over his polygamy and child molestation at this stage. In fact,

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:42.000
<v Speaker 2>while he is in prison, he is allowed to have

0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:46.640
<v Speaker 2>visitation rights with his wives per the SPLC the children.

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah what Yeah. Although he was incarcerated during most of

0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:56.640
<v Speaker 2>their marriage, Alamo kept in touch through regular prison visits,

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.520
<v Speaker 2>where Yale and other wives present at the time alleged

0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:02.320
<v Speaker 2>that he would fondle the younger girls as older wives

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:05.600
<v Speaker 2>blocked the view of the prison security cameras. He allegedly

0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:08.040
<v Speaker 2>spoke to the girls in graphic terms about group sex

0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:11.319
<v Speaker 2>and whips, says Yale, who became terrified of him at

0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the time. Neale says she was still in awe of Alamo.

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.959
<v Speaker 2>She worked eighteen hour days transcribing the tapes a Lama

0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:19.759
<v Speaker 2>would record for his followers, She says, editing out his

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:22.160
<v Speaker 2>curse words. I would have killed for him. It would

0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:24.520
<v Speaker 2>have killed my child or anyone for him, even though

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:27.560
<v Speaker 2>I hated him. Yale says, now I'd become his little demon,

0:45:27.640 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>finding sick joy and telling people horrible things on orders

0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:41.440
<v Speaker 2>from Tony. Oh oh boy, what cult dynamics, Like I

0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:46.520
<v Speaker 2>know two to zero one there the whole older wives

0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:50.399
<v Speaker 2>hiding what's happening. But also the fact that like, why

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:52.480
<v Speaker 2>are you prison officials letting children come here?

0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 3>There's so many questions. I have so many questions, like rumors,

0:45:58.040 --> 0:45:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Like they already know they're these rumors, but then they

0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:03.720
<v Speaker 3>let them in. Yeah, this is completely normal.

0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean a big part of the Tony Alamos

0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:09.359
<v Speaker 2>story is that our legal system is set up to

0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:13.080
<v Speaker 2>enable certain kinds of cult leaders, even when they molest

0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>children on a grand scale, because that's a lot easier

0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:19.080
<v Speaker 2>for all of the people who have the like these

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.719
<v Speaker 2>government often these appointee jobs to just not upset the

0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:26.239
<v Speaker 2>apple cart and piss off, you know, certain segments of

0:46:26.239 --> 0:46:28.880
<v Speaker 2>the country by trying to stop the mass rape of children.

0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:30.239
<v Speaker 2>It's cool, right, I love it.

0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:35.719
<v Speaker 3>The amount of like, first of all, just just from

0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:38.440
<v Speaker 3>what I remember working as a social worker for defacts.

0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Having a child sex abuse case literally costs a dude

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:47.239
<v Speaker 3>six thousand dollars in probation. Yeah, that was, and that's

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:51.399
<v Speaker 3>if we had proof dead to rights. Yeah, I mean,

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:54.480
<v Speaker 3>like had to be forensic proof or the child had

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:57.840
<v Speaker 3>to be able to explicitly tell in detail what it

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 3>happened to them. But that's the like it. You would

0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:03.040
<v Speaker 3>talk about the fact that it only costs a bit

0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:05.480
<v Speaker 3>of money if you want to do this. It's disgusting.

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.280
<v Speaker 2>And the vin diagram of guys who would like shoot

0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:12.680
<v Speaker 2>elected officials if those laws were changed to make the

0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:16.440
<v Speaker 2>punishments be more substantial, and guys who own kill your

0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:20.280
<v Speaker 2>local pedophile shirts is just a circle, right, the same guys,

0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the same base. Yeah.

0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely.

0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:26.120
<v Speaker 2>Tony ultimately served four years of this sentence, leaving prison

0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:28.840
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety eight and immediately booking it for the

0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:33.879
<v Speaker 2>town of Folk, Arkansas. Fouke. He repeated the same well

0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:36.279
<v Speaker 2>worn tactics that had helped him build an inviable role

0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:39.480
<v Speaker 2>of properties and businesses in two other Arkansas small towns

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:42.440
<v Speaker 2>and in Hollywood up to this point. For nearly a decade,

0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Tony enjoyed wealth, instability, The town even honored him with

0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:49.359
<v Speaker 2>a certificate of appreciation in February two thousand and six

0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:52.080
<v Speaker 2>for deeds that he and his church did to aid

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:56.000
<v Speaker 2>those in need in our community and for his Christian

0:47:56.120 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 2>love and kindness.

0:47:58.800 --> 0:47:59.920
<v Speaker 3>And this is why I don't trust question.

0:48:00.840 --> 0:48:02.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this is why I have a lot

0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:05.080
<v Speaker 2>of trouble trusting anybody who runs a church.

0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:07.680
<v Speaker 3>I'll say that much, right, Yeah, I mean I was

0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:09.759
<v Speaker 3>gonna say a lot of this is hand in hand

0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:13.280
<v Speaker 3>once again with the current church leaders today.

0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 2>It is, I will say, there's a difference in that

0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:21.560
<v Speaker 2>it's these local small town residents who are I assume

0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.800
<v Speaker 2>also evangelical Christians generally, who are some of the first

0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:29.279
<v Speaker 2>people to stand up to Tony. Because here's the thing

0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:32.040
<v Speaker 2>about pedophile cult leaders again, if you give them an inch,

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:34.960
<v Speaker 2>they wind up setting up armed guards on public streets,

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:38.239
<v Speaker 2>which is what an increasingly paranoid and elderly Tony did

0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:40.840
<v Speaker 2>later in two thousand and six. By this point, the

0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:44.399
<v Speaker 2>FEDS had started investigating him again, this time finally over

0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.400
<v Speaker 2>the child molestation and trafficking. Alamo responded by ordering his

0:48:48.560 --> 0:48:52.400
<v Speaker 2>armed guards to line the public street approaching his property.

0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:55.400
<v Speaker 2>It is an unfortunate but undeniable reality that when you

0:48:55.480 --> 0:48:57.320
<v Speaker 2>give a man a rifle and tell him to patrol

0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the street, regardless of his legal position, he'll start questioning

0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:05.000
<v Speaker 2>random strangers. This happened, and its seriously pissed off residents

0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:07.800
<v Speaker 2>who complained to the local government, and then the local

0:49:07.840 --> 0:49:10.840
<v Speaker 2>government did nothing because they were almost certainly being bribed

0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:13.319
<v Speaker 2>by the cult or were just scared of it, and

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:16.439
<v Speaker 2>thus the government took no action until the abuses grew

0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:19.640
<v Speaker 2>too numerous to ignore, so residents had to take actions

0:49:19.640 --> 0:49:23.720
<v Speaker 2>into their own hands. One resident, Judy Fraser, a small

0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:26.560
<v Speaker 2>business owner in town, started looking into the dark and

0:49:26.600 --> 0:49:30.920
<v Speaker 2>documented history of Al Alamo ministries. She starts publishing stuff,

0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:34.160
<v Speaker 2>she starts organizing the accounts of former members, and she's

0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:36.440
<v Speaker 2>going to be like one of the most effective ground

0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:40.960
<v Speaker 2>level activists against Tony. Ex followers start going to the

0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>media with increased frequency. One of them, a former school teacher,

0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:48.680
<v Speaker 2>claims Tony ordered her daughter, who suffered from epilepsy, beaten

0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:51.399
<v Speaker 2>while she was having a seizure because said seizures were

0:49:51.440 --> 0:49:55.040
<v Speaker 2>caused by the devil. Another Sue Balsley, told the SPLC

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.120
<v Speaker 2>that her teenage boy was held in the air by

0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.480
<v Speaker 2>four men and beaten one hundred and forty times as

0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:02.680
<v Speaker 2>punishment for sending a lovel letter to a female classmate

0:50:02.760 --> 0:50:08.120
<v Speaker 2>his own age. And it just keeps getting worse from there.

0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:14.719
<v Speaker 2>There's the case of a girl, Cindy Joe Angelo, when

0:50:14.800 --> 0:50:18.800
<v Speaker 2>she was fifteen and married to someone else because again

0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:22.239
<v Speaker 2>not great dynamics outside of being married to Alamo in

0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:25.680
<v Speaker 2>this cult. Alamo calls her into his house and makes

0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:28.399
<v Speaker 2>her his wife in nineteen ninety five, which is when

0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:30.560
<v Speaker 2>she finds out that her eleven year old sister had

0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:35.200
<v Speaker 2>also been made a bride. Nicki Farr told the SPLC

0:50:35.360 --> 0:50:38.359
<v Speaker 2>report that she had fled Alamo's house in nineteen ninety

0:50:38.440 --> 0:50:43.440
<v Speaker 2>nine at age fifteen after three years of basically showing

0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.480
<v Speaker 2>up for those prison visits and being sexually harassed by Tony.

0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:49.440
<v Speaker 2>She didn't want to marry him once he got out,

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and she escaped from the cult by crawling through ditches

0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and over barbed wire after he caught her making an

0:50:55.080 --> 0:51:02.600
<v Speaker 2>unauthorized phone call and knocked her out. Pretty bad stuff. Yeah, yeah,

0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I was.

0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:06.560
<v Speaker 3>Was this a documentary at any point, because some of

0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.520
<v Speaker 3>these stories sound or ministry.

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 2>It might have been a BBC documentary about this.

0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:13.680
<v Speaker 3>I may have watched parts of it because some of

0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:16.080
<v Speaker 3>this sounds, especially like the town being like this is

0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.520
<v Speaker 3>getting weird to finally getting to that point familiar.

0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:21.920
<v Speaker 2>We've crossed the line for small town.

0:51:22.040 --> 0:51:24.719
<v Speaker 3>Right, like we would mind our business. But then when

0:51:24.719 --> 0:51:26.479
<v Speaker 3>you start doing this and like.

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Devalu on the streets, the girls fleeing barbed wire. Yeah, okay,

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:36.240
<v Speaker 2>so from this point on the dam was broken. Reporting

0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:38.480
<v Speaker 2>in February of two thousand and seven linked to Lamo

0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:42.080
<v Speaker 2>to a warehouse of three thousand stolen mattresses owned by

0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 2>two of his wives. I wouldn't bring this up because, like,

0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:49.480
<v Speaker 2>mattress theft not a huge crime, except these were temper

0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 2>pedic mattresses from a lot of eight thousand that had

0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:56.440
<v Speaker 2>been donated by the company to victims of Hurricane Katrina.

0:51:56.960 --> 0:52:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Tony's men had wound up stealing them somehow and sold

0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.280
<v Speaker 2>an estimated four thousand of them for half a million dollars.

0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:07.040
<v Speaker 2>So like, you're stealing mattresses for Katrina victims.

0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:13.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, there's so many level God, like, I want to

0:52:13.880 --> 0:52:16.560
<v Speaker 3>know this is like a fast and furious operation. Yeah, yeah,

0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:20.040
<v Speaker 3>Like there's a there's a package coming, there's a truck imaged.

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Pretty so and furious. It's going to take a lot

0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:26.120
<v Speaker 2>of trucks to move eight thousand mattresses. God how they

0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.280
<v Speaker 2>didn't have mail order mattress technology like we do today.

0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Thank god you no, no, you could do it with

0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:36.520
<v Speaker 2>like those what were those, the Podcaster mattresses?

0:52:39.040 --> 0:52:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Now they're at Costco.

0:52:40.200 --> 0:52:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now they're at Costco. Casper. You could do it

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:44.440
<v Speaker 2>with Casper's. You can get eight thousand of those in

0:52:44.520 --> 0:52:48.000
<v Speaker 2>a couple of box jobs. So state and federal law

0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:51.160
<v Speaker 2>enforcement rated the Alamo compound in September of two thousand

0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:54.040
<v Speaker 2>and eight, charging him with child abuse, possession of child pornography,

0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:57.799
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuse, and trafficking. He was convicted on the testimony

0:52:57.840 --> 0:52:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of five women who claimed they'd been married to him

0:52:59.880 --> 0:53:03.239
<v Speaker 2>in secret ceremonies as miners. The youngest of these women

0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:07.320
<v Speaker 2>had been eight at the time. After decades of horrific crimes,

0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Tony Alama was convicted in two thousand and nine of

0:53:09.640 --> 0:53:12.360
<v Speaker 2>taking girls across state lines for the purpose of sex.

0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:15.480
<v Speaker 2>He was sentenced to the maximum one hundred and seventy

0:53:15.520 --> 0:53:19.279
<v Speaker 2>five years in prison. Now he ultimately serves only a

0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:22.160
<v Speaker 2>fraction of that because in May of twenty seventeen. He

0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 2>dies at the age of eighty two, but he still

0:53:24.080 --> 0:53:26.000
<v Speaker 2>spends a decent bit of time in prison and he

0:53:26.080 --> 0:53:29.239
<v Speaker 2>dies there. So I guess that's as good as this

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:30.680
<v Speaker 2>story was ever going to end.

0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:34.440
<v Speaker 3>I want to know that the prisoner's cuddled him. Yeah,

0:53:34.480 --> 0:53:35.439
<v Speaker 3>I'm just kidding, do it?

0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:39.879
<v Speaker 2>I know that? Like, yeah, did they try to bring

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:43.920
<v Speaker 2>him back? I don't know. I hope he had a

0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:46.719
<v Speaker 2>bad time. I hope it was all bad from that

0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:51.200
<v Speaker 2>point on, because he didn't get nearly what I would

0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:54.240
<v Speaker 2>describe as a fair punishment, like nine years in prison

0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:58.359
<v Speaker 2>for what's really a dizzying array of crimes.

0:53:58.280 --> 0:54:00.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, and the fact that he loved a majority Do

0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:04.160
<v Speaker 3>you have his adulthood in luxury and like infamy, people

0:54:04.600 --> 0:54:08.520
<v Speaker 3>respected his stuff. That's really disgusting. It makes me, yeah,

0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:12.680
<v Speaker 3>angry at the entire system, like the fact that people

0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:15.279
<v Speaker 3>are okay with this, Like I want to know, did

0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:19.319
<v Speaker 3>Michael Jackson obviously can't now, but like mister t die

0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:22.920
<v Speaker 3>pardon anybody ever talk about, you know, having a shame

0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:25.480
<v Speaker 3>in that or like renouncing any of those things? Did

0:54:25.480 --> 0:54:26.560
<v Speaker 3>they at least burn.

0:54:27.000 --> 0:54:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I haven't run into it. I mean, what are you

0:54:29.040 --> 0:54:31.680
<v Speaker 2>gonna say, like Hey, you know this guy who so

0:54:32.120 --> 0:54:35.480
<v Speaker 2>you bought a jacket from turned out to suck. So like,

0:54:35.560 --> 0:54:38.160
<v Speaker 2>it's not like, you know, it's not like they were

0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:42.920
<v Speaker 2>like working together, you know, like it's not like Dolly

0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Parton was in business with him specifically she liked, she

0:54:46.320 --> 0:54:49.120
<v Speaker 2>did some shows at a venue he owned, She owned

0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:52.520
<v Speaker 2>a jacket. Like, I don't know where we lock that

0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:55.560
<v Speaker 2>in in terms of responsibility at a moral level.

0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:58.239
<v Speaker 3>Right, I mean it's very least like acknowledging that the

0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:03.000
<v Speaker 3>victims existed, including the child labor, yeah, went into her work.

0:55:03.440 --> 0:55:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think it would have been good

0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:07.640
<v Speaker 2>to say something for all of these people who bought

0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Alamo jackets. But I'm not surprised they didn't.

0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:14.279
<v Speaker 3>Of course not, they wouldn't. Yeah, I mean, we don't

0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 3>know who the queens and kings and presidents are at

0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:18.000
<v Speaker 3>this point.

0:55:18.280 --> 0:55:20.520
<v Speaker 2>No, yes, I do want to know. Yeah, I do

0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:23.080
<v Speaker 2>imagine the King of Saudi Arabia has a nice collection

0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:25.400
<v Speaker 2>of ryanstoned denim vests.

0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:29.839
<v Speaker 3>I mean I feel like Bill Clinton probably had one, Yeah,

0:55:30.000 --> 0:55:32.920
<v Speaker 3>putting one of those on and playing his saxophone, Oh yeah,

0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:33.919
<v Speaker 3>on par.

0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked. I wouldn't be shocked, especially

0:55:36.880 --> 0:55:40.440
<v Speaker 2>since we know he was a fan. All right, yeah,

0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:44.600
<v Speaker 2>well that's the episode.

0:55:45.080 --> 0:55:47.600
<v Speaker 3>I need to stage my computer. How do I do this?

0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Just just burn it? Just burn your computer? Oh man,

0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:56.839
<v Speaker 2>good stuff? Well anything you want to push out there,

0:55:56.960 --> 0:55:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Samantha at the.

0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:02.600
<v Speaker 3>End, you know, talk about stuff on stuff mom never

0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:05.560
<v Speaker 3>told you about how the world is awful and similar

0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:09.440
<v Speaker 3>to these bad people and hopefully solutions or at least

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:11.880
<v Speaker 3>positive things. So if you want to come listen to us,

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:14.480
<v Speaker 3>you can find me on Blue Sky McVeigh. Sam. I

0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:16.799
<v Speaker 3>do have Instagram and all that, but I'm rarely on there.

0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, check out Sam McVay and check out Maybe

0:56:22.160 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>don't check out social media too much, but you'll if

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:31.000
<v Speaker 2>you do find Sam on it. Above all, else, don't

0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:33.440
<v Speaker 2>buy a denim jacket. They're all made by cult.

0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:35.799
<v Speaker 3>Leaders, especially if it's bedazzled.

0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, especially if it's bedazzled. Just avoid that for

0:56:39.280 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 2>your own soul's sake. All right, And that's the episode. Everybody,

0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:46.080
<v Speaker 2>We're done.

0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:52.919
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

0:56:53.000 --> 0:56:56.719
<v Speaker 1>Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio

0:56:56.760 --> 0:57:00.200
<v Speaker 1>app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind

0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:03.759
<v Speaker 1>the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every

0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:09.759
<v Speaker 1>slash at Behind the Bastards