1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Term career goals. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in sort of early mid November 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five. We are going to be talking 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: about rekindling the work flame, so long time listeners may 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: recall it. A few months ago we had an episode 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: called keep It Hot, which was about long term romantic 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: partnerships and how one could keep the flame live there. 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: And it turns out that there are some parallels with 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: work as well. If you've been in your job for 21 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: a great many years, sometimes things can start to feel 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: a little bit stale, less exciting than you might hope. 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: But there are things that you can do to make 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: your work life more exciting and interesting for you as well, now, 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: obviously there are some key differences between your marriage and 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: your job. One is that you should definitely change jobs 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: if you get a much better offer of something you 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: would rather do where there are a few more repercussions 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: doing that. With your marriage, you probably really want to 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: think about that with all the trauma that what we cause. 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: But you know, the grass is not always greener, and 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: so sometimes when people think we need a different job, 33 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: you know, all jobs have their issues. I've definitely seen 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: people in yours report to me that they're like, Oh, 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: this job is so stressful and terrible. My coworkers are 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: awful and you can't trust them. And then you're like, 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna get a different job. It's like great, great, 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: go do that. And then within the first year at 39 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: that job, they're like, oh, it's so awful and stressful 40 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: and I'm working all the time and my coworkers are 41 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: tarable and I can't trust them. It's like, hmm, there's 42 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: a similarity, one thing in common for sure, between these 43 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: two jobs. So we need to sometimes look at ourselves 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 2: as well. But anyway, Sarah, you've been in your job 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: for a great many years. Sarah, maybe you can talk 46 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: about how you've come to think about this. 47 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, I have been in my clinical job for 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 3: twelve years now, very exciting, really kind of getting up there. 49 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: I feel like once maybe in the upper teams, I'll 50 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: really feel like, Okay, I am old guard. 51 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm mid guard right now. 52 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: So, but recently I was just having some nothing specific, 53 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: just like minor job angst. I think everyone knows. Healthcare, 54 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: you know, has a lot of stuff going on right now, 55 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: especially like insurance types of issues and things like that. 56 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: And I just found myself wondering, like, are there things 57 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: I can do to feel more engaged at work and 58 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: to maybe embrace the positive things about it, and like 59 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: see if I can enjoy my day to day a 60 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: little little bit more. And I thought of it as 61 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: kind of an experiment, because really, if I was continuing 62 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: to feel down about certain things, then maybe it would 63 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: have been time to think about different situations. And I 64 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: actually did find that some of the things I tried 65 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 3: ended up helping me, Like, I feel more content than 66 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: I did even a couple of months ago, with no 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: real change in the other the things that were bothering me. 68 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 3: I guess, so I guess this kind of inspired some 69 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: of these tips, and this episode as well as of 70 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: course are keep it hot episode because everyone should go 71 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: back and listen to that if they. 72 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: Haven't, absolutely, so, yes, we're going to keep it hot 73 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: at work. 74 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: So one of the. 75 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: Things you can do, I mean, obviously in many situations 76 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: that feeling a bit stale is you can reflect on 77 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: what you actually like about it, right, So, I mean, 78 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: there are the things you. 79 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: Truly love about your clinical job. 80 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, you should sit there with a pen and paper, 81 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: and even if you are in one of those moments 82 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: when you're thinking about fire or you're thinking about some 83 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: dressed career pivot, think about what you would lose if 84 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: you were to do a change. And that is going 85 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 3: to basically be a list of the things that you 86 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: do like about your current situation. Because we can tend 87 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: to be biased towards you know, what's wrong, what's the 88 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: thing we want to fix, you know, what's that nagging 89 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: situation or something like that, But maybe there's also some 90 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 3: great things about going to work every day, whether it 91 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: is seeing colleagues that you like. Maybe your work hours 92 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: are actually pretty darn reasonable. When you do your time 93 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: tracking and you look at it and you're like huh, 94 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 3: my hourly pay, my work hours are manageable. I don't 95 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 3: feel stressed outside of work. 96 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: Things like that. 97 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe those things don't apply to you, but 98 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: I think it is important. And it can be tangible 99 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: stuff too, like again, your compensation or your paid time off, 100 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: or even things like opportunity to learn or opportunity to 101 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 3: feel like you have meeting at certain points during your job. 102 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: Might not be every minute, but maybe there's like a 103 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 3: moment per week where you feel really good. You should 104 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 3: reflect on those things, and I highly recommend like literally 105 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: writing them down. 106 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do I love about my job? What would 107 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: I miss if I weren't doing this? And even if 108 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: you do wind up finding something else, having a list 109 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: of what you really like will be helpful. 110 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: As you go into the search. 111 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 2: You're like, actually, it really is important to me that 112 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: I have some flexibility over my hours. And then you know, 113 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: when you're negotiating your next position, you're like, look, I 114 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: need this, see this list. These things have to happen 115 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: here for me to leave. What is a reasonable situation 116 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: to go do something else? So, yeah, you definitely want 117 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: that list. You also might want to consider trying a 118 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: few things. One is engaging more with your colleagues, right, Sarah. 119 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like if you are in a down moment, 120 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: your instinct might actually be to pull back. I don't 121 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 3: feel like responding to that group chat, I don't want 122 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 3: to go to that party. 123 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: What meetings can I get out of? 124 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: And sometimes I think that can really really backfire because like, 125 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 3: the less engaged you are, the less engaged you will be. 126 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: So perhaps forcing yourself to like put your opinion in there, 127 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 3: if you have experience and you know you have something 128 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: to add or make sure to attend that gathering, that 129 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: can actually paradoxically help. Now, of course, if you're just 130 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: burned out and you're dispending way too much time at work, 131 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: I'm not like advocating to add a bunch of extras, 132 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: but look to see if there are things or like 133 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: little ways in which you can maybe participate, because you 134 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 3: actually might find that igniting rather than adding to the 135 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: burden side of work. 136 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you also want to notice little good moments, right, 137 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: like a work love of the week as it were. 138 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you have a day where something 139 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: went really well, like write that down somewhere or like 140 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: actually think about it or reflect on it and if 141 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: you can't find any Like if a week goes by 142 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: and you're like, I cannot think of a single positive 143 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: thing that I did relate it to my work, that 144 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: actually probably is something that needs to be thought about. 145 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: Either are there ways to maybe alter your situation to 146 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 3: add in more of those small winds, or maybe you 147 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 3: do need to make some kind of change, because I 148 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: think we're going to talk about how, yes, your job 149 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: is not all of your waking hours, but it's a 150 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: sizeable enough chunk of your waking hours and energy that 151 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 3: if there is literally nothing you can pull out that 152 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 3: brings you a little bit of satisfaction or joy, I 153 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: do think that's. 154 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: Kind of problematic. Yeah, I don't know, Like, can we 155 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: think of some examples for me? 156 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: I had a call week recently and it was a 157 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: totally stressful call week because I have never seen a 158 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 3: list this long. But I ended up having a case 159 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 3: where I kind of figured something out in a very 160 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: rare type of a condition and I felt so good 161 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: about that, and I could tell the parent felt really 162 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: relieve that we figured something out, and she felt like 163 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: I was very much trying hard to figure it out. 164 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: And then I like ended up seeing her the week 165 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: after and like, I'm following this patient really closely, and 166 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, wow, this is what I did this for, 167 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: not focusing on maybe how some other patient was very 168 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 3: upset at us because their insurance didn't cover a certain med. 169 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: So what about you, Like, are there good. 170 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: Moments that you reflect on sometimes maybe at the end 171 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: of a week, like a great interview or I don't know. 172 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a little different. 173 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: Just because you know, you run your own business over 174 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: long years, you tend to least I do, orient it 175 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: toward things that I actually want to do. So I 176 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: have a very low tolerance for things that I don't 177 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: want to do, and that means that there's a lot 178 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: of love of the weeks. Right I'm enjoying recording this 179 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: right now. I'm you know, like writing things. I'm always 180 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: excited when I get nice feedback from people on something 181 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: that they've read of mine and it was impactful in 182 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: their life in some way. 183 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: So there's a lot it. 184 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: Must have been fun to get those images. I don't 185 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 3: know if you can share a lot about that. But 186 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: the actual physical way that your book is going to 187 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: look is starting to take shape, and that's exciting. 188 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. 189 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: I mean, well there's obviously things that like there's annoyances 190 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: in every job, right, Like I'm going through the copy 191 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: edits of my book and something was changed that now 192 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: all needs to be changed back, which is just extra time. 193 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: But we're making the best possible book, so it's good 194 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: to ask these things. And you know, again I also 195 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: remind myself like if we're arguing over very very tiny details, 196 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: like that's a good place to be in, Like there's 197 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 2: not big stuff that's being changed with anything. But yeah, 198 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: I got to see covers, which is was just really exciting, 199 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: Like when you have a cover you're excited about and 200 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: you can actually picture a version of this in bookstores 201 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: that you're like, that's what the book is going to 202 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: look like. That's this idea that I had years ago 203 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: is now going to be this physical thing. I mean, 204 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: it's just a very exciting. I'm using that word way 205 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: too much, but you know, I do like it. And 206 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: when there's things I really don't like that I do 207 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: my best to get rid of them, which we'll get 208 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: to in a moment. 209 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 3: Yes, And I just want to add to as we 210 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: were talking about engagement, I had a special note to 211 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: just bring up like participating in the social extras, because 212 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: most jobs do have things that are entirely optional. And again, 213 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: if you're in that like burnt out mode, you're going 214 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: to skip the baby shower or not organize the lunch. 215 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: But sometimes those are like some of the most rewarding. 216 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: Parts, depending on where you are in your career and 217 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: what you're doing and how hard the rest of it is. 218 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: So I very much encourage people to say yes to 219 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 3: those little. 220 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: Extras yeah, or come up with them your own if 221 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: you are working by yourself, which over the past few years, 222 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: I've definitely been more proactive about building work relationships and 223 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: sort of recurring things that you see people that you 224 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: work with. You don't really work with them, you both 225 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: are doing similar work, but they become sort of like 226 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: colleagues because you see them and talk with them frequently 227 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: and they know what's going on in your working life, 228 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: and you can create those and that can definitely make 229 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: work feel more exciting for sure. Now, obviously, if there 230 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 2: are people who are toxic, we want to get away 231 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 2: from that, right Sarah. 232 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: I mean, that is something that can make I've talked 233 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 3: to multiple people who it sometimes can just come down 234 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 3: to one person, and maybe even an interurn move where 235 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: you're almost doing the same job, which but just with 236 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 3: a different supervisor or different coworker. 237 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: Might make all the difference. 238 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: So I do feel if you can pinpoint a ton 239 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 3: of your angs to one person, sometimes that is a 240 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: situation that it's like, no, I would focus on changing that. 241 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: You don't have to change jobs per se, But I 242 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: don't know the one thing. You know, if you can 243 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: get rid of the one pain point, that would be 244 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: really helpful. We're going to take a quick ad break 245 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 2: and then we would be back with more on rekindling 246 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: the flame at work. 247 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,479 Speaker 1: Well, we are back. 248 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: Talking about how we can rekindle the flame at work. 249 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: You know, it's the keep it hot version for not 250 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: a marriage, but a job that you have been in 251 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: for many years, if not a decade or more so. 252 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: One thing you can do is we talked about making 253 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: a list of what you enjoy at your job, the 254 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: things that you like. Are there ways you could craft 255 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: your job to spend more time on the things you like, 256 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 2: And again, it doesn't have to be much. We don't 257 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: have to say, well, I was spending two hours a 258 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: week on this and now I'm gonna be spending twenty 259 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: five on it, And if you're gonna pull that off, 260 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: great more power to you. But if you are spending 261 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: two hours a week on it, could you spend three 262 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: or four? Right? Is that something that you could get 263 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: to Would you be able to trim other things, maybe 264 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 2: be a little bit less responsive on the email in 265 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: order to carve out some time for this, or delegate 266 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: a meeting to somebody else to spend a little bit 267 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: more time on your favorite work. That can be the 268 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: equivalent of putting in a date night into your long 269 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: term partnership. That makes it feel a little bit more 270 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: like this is something you are excited about totally. 271 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: And I feel like I've engaged in that sort of 272 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: career crafting on both sides of what I do, whether 273 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 3: it's emphasizing certain types of specialty clinics or on the 274 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 3: creative side, like, oh, I really like talking about planning 275 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: and teaching about planning, you know what, I'll go hard 276 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: in that direction because it's so much fun for me. 277 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: I mean that no one was like, hey, I think 278 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: that is what you should do, but like I really 279 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 3: enjoyed it, and so that both ended up resonating and 280 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: ended up being like a really satisfying part of my job. 281 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: Sometimes efforts of this fail. Fun fact, my Giant Health 282 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: System at one point was like, we're starting a podcast, 283 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 3: and I'm like, I should host the podcast. You guys, 284 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: I didn't even get a call back, which is hilarious, 285 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 3: Like what insulted? 286 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: I mean, why why? Why didn't they? 287 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: It's okay, I actually don't even know if they move 288 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 3: forward with the project. To be honest, this is like 289 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 3: a few years ago, and it might have just been like, 290 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: never mind, we're not really doing this. But I look 291 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: to see, like, oh, has this podcast like hit the charts, 292 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: like who's doing it? And I couldn't find it, So okay, 293 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 3: it might have just been that they moved on. 294 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it never happened, but yeah, yeah, no, that 295 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: was the hot thing for a while, Like every organization 296 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: has to have their own podcast, but you don't. 297 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: I don't know how hard this is. Okay, they don't, 298 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: they don't. In fact, you appreciate your own podcast. You 299 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: should think long and hard about that. 300 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: But with trying to add more time of the things 301 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: that you want to do, there's also the case to 302 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: be made for spending less time on the things that 303 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 2: you do not want to do now done right, Delegating 304 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: and outsourcing is not so much just about getting rid 305 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: of things you don't want to do. It is about 306 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: recognizing what is the highest value of your time, and 307 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: even if you can do something really well, sometimes that 308 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: is not the best way for you to be spending 309 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: your time. So Sarah can give an excellent checkout for 310 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: her her patient visits, but as you might imagine, it 311 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: would be best for her to move on to the 312 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: next patient and start seeing the next patient to write Sarah. 313 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: Correct or things like you know, I'll get a message 314 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: in my inbox. It's like, can you print these lab 315 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: orders that you've already ordered and send them to this box? Like, 316 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 3: I will happily for that to someone who will help 317 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: me do that so I can do something else. 318 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, even though I'm sure I'd be pretty good at. 319 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, or I mean all of the things with the 320 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: not getting into it much both insurance, with the various 321 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: box checking and organization level skills required for this, it 322 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: turns out someone like Sarah is excellent at that. But again, 323 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: is it the best use of a physician's time to 324 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: be doing those things? 325 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: So looking for opportunities like that, right, Sarah, definitely. Yeah. 326 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: Well, and if you are doing any sort of work, 327 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 2: really you can think about, well, Okay, I could do X, 328 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 2: but could I find somebody else to help me with X? 329 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: And so certainly over the years, you know, I have 330 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: a virtual assistant. Now I have some help with drafting 331 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: and coming up with ideas for different things, certainly with 332 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: the statistical aspects of my challenges, and that's made it 333 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: possible for me to spend more of my time actually writing, 334 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: which turns out that the content creation part of my 335 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: job is what I love doing most. So the more 336 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: time I can spend on that and the less time 337 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: I spend on other things, the better off we are. 338 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: I've never edited up podcast track. I have no idea 339 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: how to do that. And I also hire a designer 340 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 3: to make all of my kind of PDF workbooks and 341 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: things because I know she does it so much better 342 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 3: than I would ever do it. 343 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 344 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: Now, with that, there might be some new technologies that 345 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: can help make your work easier or more interesting. I 346 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: mean you're leaning into that with sort of the medical 347 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: literature search concept right now. 348 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 349 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 3: Open evidence if you haven't used it is an awesome 350 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: tool that is sort of like chat GPT mixed with PubMed, 351 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: so it actually like pulls the sources of the information 352 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 3: that it spits out, but it spits it out in 353 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 3: very digestible form, and it's really good for answering very 354 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 3: specific questions, like you're like, well, how often do patients 355 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 3: with this condition not test gene positive? Like that would 356 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 3: take a little time to dig out, but open evidence 357 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: can find that very very quickly and give you citations 358 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: so you can double check. So I do feel like 359 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: we're like, yeah, we're in a sweet spot right now 360 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 3: with AI, where like your job isn't eaten yet, but 361 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: you can possibly benefit, so yeah, definitely better. 362 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, I mean I don't use AI 363 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: to write for me, but in many cases sometimes. 364 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: AI writes better than some people. 365 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: So uh, that could be a thing that would be 366 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: helpful if you don't find writing fun creating first drafts 367 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: of things, having a system create a first draft within 368 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: your parameters that you didn't go in and make better. 369 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: What if I was like I do that with every 370 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 3: blog post. I never write them anymore. There are certain 371 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: context where it's just so like no, please. 372 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: No, like the whole time or enjoying writing my you know, yeah, and. 373 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: Like that personal angle, like this came from a human 374 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 3: who is having these real human thoughts that they're putting 375 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: out there. 376 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: Like I guess we're just saying be. 377 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: Judicial, but I mean, like, obviously, you know, it could 378 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: make your resume look better or whatever. You know, there's 379 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: all sorts of things that like you or you know, 380 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: if you have to answer a couple quick questions for 381 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 2: a conference prep work, like, you know, there's all sorts 382 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 2: of ways that you can use it as your assistant 383 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: and make life a little bit easier for you, which 384 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: might help you spend more time on the favorite kinds 385 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: of work that you do enjoy. And then you can 386 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: obviously do things like take good breaks. So people have 387 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: varying amounts of control over what they spend their work 388 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 2: time doing, but we all have some control over the 389 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: time at work when we are not working, and everyone 390 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: takes breaks. It is just a question of whether they 391 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 2: are intentional or not. You know, I've had people tell me, oh, 392 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: I don't take breaks. I just read email newsletters here 393 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: and there. When I get a few minutes, I'm like, okay, 394 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: that's a break. 395 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: That's a break. 396 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but maybe that's not the most rejuvening thing. I mean, 397 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: I love email newsletters. You should definitely read mind you 398 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: would probably find that a great break. But if that's 399 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: not making you feel rejuvenated, then think about what can 400 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: I do, Like, what are two ten minute many vacations 401 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: I could take in the course of my day, Like 402 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 2: what would maximize my relaxation or rejuvenation in ten to 403 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes that I can plan in twice during the day. 404 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: How can I make sure that that happens and that 405 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: I enjoy that as much as possible? 406 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: For me, it's a walk outside and then also doing 407 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 3: exactly what you just said, but like reading blogs and 408 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 3: responding to them, like but purposefully purpose Like, Okay, I 409 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 3: know I have forty minutes, so I want to walk 410 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 3: for twenty minutes, and then I want to like catch 411 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: up on my parasocial relationships for twenty minutes on blogs. 412 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it could be anything. I mean, make yourself 413 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 2: a list of potential breaks. Maybe it's reading a chapter 414 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 2: in a book. Maybe it's calling a friend, Maybe it's 415 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: going for a walk. Maybe if you're working at home, 416 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: it could be something like going out to your garden 417 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: for a few minutes. Maybe if you know you get 418 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 2: coffee with a work friend, You could read a magazine, 419 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: you could listen to some inspiring music, go outside and 420 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: listen to a podcast for a bit to just get 421 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: some sunshine. Lots of things you can do, but when 422 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: you have a list ahead of time, then you're not 423 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 2: sort of stumped for what to do. Would open time 424 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 2: appears And when we're stumped, we don't sit there and go, huh, 425 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 2: what would I do? We just do whatever as easiest, 426 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: which again is going to be deleting emails that didn't 427 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: have to be deleted, then reading headlines. These are our 428 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: electronic hobbies. So if you want to spend a little 429 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: less time on your electronic hobbies and more on your 430 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: real hobbies, creating a break portfolio for each day can 431 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 2: help you do that. 432 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 433 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 3: I think if you struggle with this, this is one 434 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 3: where like creating a little sticky note or a little reminder, 435 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 3: you don't have to have that forever, but might actually 436 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: encourage you like, oh right, I identify these things I 437 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 3: want to do. 438 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: Let me try to not just go to those defaults. 439 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say if you do have more 440 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: flexibility with your time and more autonomy, you can get 441 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: a little bit adventurous in your breaks. 442 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: Adventures don't have to only happen on weekends. 443 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: Now, obviously you are not going to take probably a 444 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 2: full hour out to every day, but maybe you consciously 445 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: take like a quick lunch two or three days, and 446 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: then on a day that you're working from home, go somewhere, 447 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: like go to that museum, go walk it apart, go 448 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: meet a friend, and have a leisurely lunch. 449 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: But actually really lean into that. 450 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: So you have something memorable that you've done and you're like, oh, yeah, 451 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: that my job pays me good money and allows me 452 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: to do this, that's pretty awesome. 453 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: Some people really do have an hour two and you 454 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: can do a lot. 455 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 3: I was thinking, like you could get your nails done, like, 456 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 3: you could do a pretty significant workout. You could browse 457 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 3: a bookstore, like, There's a lot you could choose to 458 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 3: do if you have a full hour and the ability. 459 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: To go somewhere. 460 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: Which again, if you do have a full hour or 461 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 2: even you know, forty five minutes or whatever, if you 462 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: actually truly do get this time and it's expected that 463 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: you will do something not at your work, which is 464 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 2: certainly the case in certain jobs, and some you actually 465 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,239 Speaker 2: have to punch out for a certain amount of time 466 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: in the middle of the day. Don't go into the 467 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: day not knowing what you're going to do. 468 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: Now you can change it. 469 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 2: Like if your favorite colleague is like, hey, did you 470 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: see that food truck is over two blocks away, Let's 471 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 2: go get lunch together. Like, obviously, change what you are 472 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: doing and go do that. But having an idea of 473 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: what you want to do will make the work day 474 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: a lot more pleasant. All Right, We're going to take 475 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: one more quick ad break and then we'll move back 476 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: with more on keeping it hot at work. Well, we 477 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: are back talking about how you can re engage with work, 478 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: rekindle the flame, make work a little bit more exciting, 479 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: even if you have been there for years or potentially 480 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: even more than a decade, certainly using your professional development 481 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: perks is a big win. 482 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 3: Sarah, you have I will say, wasted mind. 483 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 2: HAVE been talking with you a great many times over 484 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: the past two years, and I know you love to 485 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 2: go to your professional endocrine conferences, and yet somehow you 486 00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: have not gone. 487 00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: Explain it. 488 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: I don't know, Like two years ago there was some 489 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: gymnastics thing, and then a year ago, well a year 490 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 3: ago I was like took one for the team, like 491 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 3: everyone wanted to go to the same conference, and I 492 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 3: was like, you know what, I'm busy. 493 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: Then I don't feel that passionate. I'll go to a 494 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: different one. 495 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 3: And then when a time came to register for the 496 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 3: different one, I was like, I still have too much 497 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: going on. It was in the middle of July. I 498 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 3: went to Philadelphia in July. First we had something else 499 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 3: going on, I feel like the beginning of August, and 500 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 3: I was like, it's too many things. And to be fair, 501 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: like my medicals when I when I made that switch, 502 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 3: I hadn't had all that hard stuff happen and this 503 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 3: was like still relatively fresh. So I was like, forget it. 504 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 3: But this year, I'm going going. 505 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm going. 506 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: It's in California, so it's not convenient, but I'm still 507 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 3: going and it's going to happen this time. 508 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: Because there's not perfect time. I mean, they're really perfect 509 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: time and it's fun. 510 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: And if you're in if you're lucky enough to be 511 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: in a job where you get to do some travel 512 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 3: that is like fully comped and you're that is like 513 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 3: a lovely thing to embrace and get to experience, especially 514 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 3: if it means seeing old friends and so yeah, one 515 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 3: fun thing that I have learned since hosting a course, 516 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 3: some people use their professional development money for my my courses, 517 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: and I'm like, I love that so much. I still 518 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 3: don't feel like if we were able to get like 519 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: professional like CME for Bestly Plans Live, we could we 520 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 3: could expand. 521 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes make sure when it was coney. 522 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, the conferences I've talked at are like an event 523 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: organization hosts that they've done the paperwork that it can 524 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: be for continuing professional development credit for whatever their credentialing 525 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 2: bodies are. And of course then you get a much 526 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: better attendance because people are like, well, I got to 527 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 2: get my credits somehow, and this looks a lot more 528 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: interesting than many other things I could be doing, so 529 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 2: which is awesome when that happens. But yeah, no, if 530 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: not using your professional development funds is basically like leaving 531 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: a raise on the table, right, This is money that 532 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 2: is budgeted for you, and so if it is there, 533 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: you should figure out how to do it. And the 534 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 2: upside is that you often will become more engaged in 535 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 2: your work. I mean, this is why people budget money 536 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: for it for their employees. Is because they know when 537 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: you go to that conference, you're like, oh, yeah, I 538 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 2: like this, or oh, here's an exciting new thing I 539 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: can try, or it's always so great to see Joe 540 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: and Bob again. And you know, you just become more 541 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 2: excited about your job for at least some amount of 542 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 2: time afterwards, which if it gets you to keep. 543 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: Working there for another six months is great then that's 544 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: why they do it. Yeah. 545 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 3: Plus you're like more up to date with stuff, so 546 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 3: you feel better about the quality of your everything. It 547 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 3: has multiple benefits, So don't be me. 548 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: Don't be Sarah. We should be Sarah in many ways, 549 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: but not that. 550 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: But yeah, and if you really got here, I just 551 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: had a little hiatus. 552 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: And if you are working for yourself, running your own 553 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 2: small business obviously is great if you can figure out 554 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: ways for your employees to do things like this, but 555 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 2: you can do it for yourself as well. I know 556 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 2: a lot of people have found it life changing to 557 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 2: form organizations of other people who are facing similar challenges 558 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: to you. So if you are running a small business, 559 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: maybe recruit five other people who are running small businesses 560 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: and either same lines of work or that have similar 561 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: revenue and so they're facing the same challenges you are, 562 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: and you get together, you know, once or twice a year, 563 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 2: you become friends and colleagues in addition to you know, 564 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: just balancing thing off each other professionally, and that can 565 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 2: keep you engaged in your work for a. 566 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: Lot longer as well. Yes, which you do and you enjoy. 567 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: I do and I enjoy now. 568 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: Of course, one of the perks of many salary jobs 569 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: is that you get paid time off. Which one way 570 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 2: to make sure that you are not burned out and 571 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: that you are still feeling energized for your work is 572 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: to make sure that you take your paid time off. 573 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: So Sarah, you, I mean there were times I know 574 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: in the past when you were making sure that you 575 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 2: had enough because your little kids might be sick at 576 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 2: any given point. But now we've been able to lean 577 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 2: a bit more into the travel and sort of rejuvenative 578 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 2: days off even if you're not traveling right. 579 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, Yeah, And I think it's very important to 580 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 3: really understand what your PTO policies where you are. I'm 581 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 3: not even sure everyone I work with would know how 582 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: many hours they get for pay period and like how 583 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: much disability time, how much PTO time and It's something 584 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 3: I learned to pay attention to because I want to 585 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: maximize those days. And I think one of the most 586 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 3: heart things if you have someone that's like I am 587 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: so tired, be like, well, what's your PCO balance? And 588 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: it's like, I have many days I could have used 589 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 3: this year and didn't, and it's like, okay, then why 590 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 3: don't we figure out make sure that you are using 591 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 3: those in a way that fits you. And I think 592 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 3: real time spent figuring out how to best allocate those 593 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 3: days if you have a limited number of them, or 594 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 3: even if you have a technically unlimited number of them, 595 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: but really obviously everyone's kind of limited. Really thinking about 596 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: this is when I'm going to travel, maybe this is 597 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: when I'm going to do a day off to do 598 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: a seasonal planning session with myself, and this is when 599 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 3: I'm going to take a short weekend away with my 600 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 3: husband or whatever. But really like thinking about how many 601 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 3: days you have, how do you want to spread them 602 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: throughout the year, how do you want to use them 603 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 3: to maximize your joy? Because they are a job benefit, 604 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 3: and I guess I would argue that for most people, 605 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: they should use every single day that they have, even 606 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: if there's like a possible payout if you don't use them. 607 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 3: I mean, yes, if money is true tight and you 608 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 3: get paid for days you don't use and you really 609 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 3: need that money, I get it. But like beyond that, 610 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: probably the time it's going to be more valuable for 611 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: most people listening to this. 612 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and finally, you should reflect on what you want 613 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: your next steps to be. Now. 614 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: Obviously, people don't stay in jobs forever. 615 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: Most people are not going to take a job at 616 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: the beginning of their career and then retire from it 617 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: forty years later, so there probably will be a next step. 618 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: But sometimes spending some time thinking about what you think 619 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: that next step would be and what you're interested in 620 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: and looking for can make your current situation feel better 621 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 2: as well, because you know you're like, oh, well, I'm 622 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: I'm learning this now and that's going to be helpful 623 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: in my next step, or I'm meeting all these people 624 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: and that's going to be helpful in my next step too. 625 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Sarah, you've reflected on this as well. 626 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean for me, it's like part of my 627 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: annual planning processes. 628 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: It's built in, like what do we want for my 629 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 1: life in the future. 630 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: But not everybody does that, So if you don't think 631 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: about when and where you would want to sit down 632 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 3: and really think about that, Yeah. 633 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: I should probably do more of that. But you know, 634 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 2: so far, so good. Keep muddling along. 635 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 3: Well. 636 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: By the time this airs, you will have had some 637 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: chance to It's true. 638 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: At best, like plans life, I will have set my 639 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: goals for twenty twenty six and we'll see what I 640 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: want to bite off every ur the next year. Right, 641 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: so we've been talking how to rekindle the flame at work. 642 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: This question is also from somebody thinking about work scause 643 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: my job is really stressful. I often think about fire 644 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 2: that's financial independence, retire early, but cannot help feeling like 645 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: if I only work a few more years, things will 646 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 2: be better for our family and the kids. Yet I 647 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: feel like I'm trading away the prime of my life. Help, 648 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: What should I think about doing well? 649 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 3: In addition to listening to this episode, so you can 650 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 3: maybe think about things that you do appreciate about your 651 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: job or maybe ways to tweak it in that direction. 652 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: I would definitely make sure that you are not going 653 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 3: through this thought process with like theoreticals like well, I 654 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 3: think we could find like there should be no, think 655 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 3: there should be like I have run and that calculator 656 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 3: and this and that simulation looking at what happens if 657 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 3: my partner doesn't work, if I don't work, if we 658 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 3: both don't work, Like why our life cell look like 659 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 3: what would be able to afford? Like what would the 660 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: trade offs be? And really be very concrete with that. 661 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 3: You can do a DIY version of that if you're 662 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: savvy enough. You can use an app or you can 663 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: do it with an advisor. But I think if you're 664 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: making this big of a decision, you just need to 665 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: like really have numbers in place. 666 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 1: That's number one. 667 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 3: And then other thoughts are again kind of going through 668 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 3: the things in this episode, But is there one pain point? 669 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 3: Like could you find a job that's kind of like 670 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 3: your job but removes whatever the thing is that makes 671 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: you feel like you're wasting your life away? Like maybe 672 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 3: there's one big source of stress. 673 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the commute. 674 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 3: Could you find a remote version or figure out something 675 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: closer to you, et cetera. And then I guess one 676 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 3: kind of twist on this and you've probably thought of 677 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: this if you're sending this question in, but like could 678 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 3: you use the skills you've developed, but figure out if 679 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 3: there's a way that you could do it in a 680 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 3: more freelance and autonomous fashion, because I think one of 681 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 3: the things that stresses people out the moment most in 682 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: certain corporate roles, it is just the utter lack of autonomy. Yet, 683 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: if you've been with a role long enough, maybe you 684 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 3: do have some skills that would be translatable to something 685 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 3: where you are more in charge. It may come with 686 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 3: more risks, but if you've done those calculations, you may 687 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: be able to see that you could weather those risks. 688 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 3: So I think that that is an avenue to certainly 689 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 3: pursue as an option. 690 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean definitely. 691 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: One thing you should do in addition to figuring out 692 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: what your net worth is and what it's going to 693 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: grow to and what you could reasonably live on and 694 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: whether those trade offs are worth it to you is 695 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: to track your time because it can be empowering to 696 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 2: realize how much time is available outside of work. If 697 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 2: you are working forty hours a week, we've done this 698 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: calculation here before, there are one hundred and sixty eight 699 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: hours in a week. If you are sleeping eight hours 700 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: a night, so that's fifty six hours a week. Subtract 701 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 2: fifty six and forty from one hundred and sixty eight, 702 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: you get seventy two hours for other things. So even 703 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: if you are not thrilled with the forty hours you 704 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: are working, can you make yourself thrilled with the seventy 705 00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: two hours. 706 00:31:59,200 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: You are not working? 707 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: And then you know, like, hey, the good stuff is 708 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: almost twice as much as the job that I'm finding stressful. 709 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: I should really lean into the rest of my life, 710 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 2: you know, get a hobby, join a pickleball league, go 711 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 2: volunteer somewhere. 712 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: You might really enjoy that. 713 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 2: Just recognizing that full time work is not the full 714 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: amount of your time, that word is a misnomer. I 715 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: wish there were another word to describe thirty five to 716 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: forty hours of work a week. There isn't, but it 717 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: isn't the full amount of your time. And the more 718 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: you can keep repeating that to yourself, the more you 719 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: might be able to compartmentalize what's going on. Go ahead 720 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 2: and look for another job. Right, there are so many 721 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: other options beyond quitting your job and never working again. 722 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 2: Right looking for another job, people tell themselves a story like, oh, well, 723 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 2: there's not gonna be anything that pays as well and 724 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 2: uses my skills in this area. 725 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,479 Speaker 1: Do you know that? 726 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: Like, do you absolutely know that? If so, fine, But 727 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: if you just haven't looked, then you don't know. It 728 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: could be that a company that's far away is willing 729 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 2: to hire you remotely, right, And then maybe they were 730 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: even paying more because they're located in an expensive area 731 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: and so their salary base is different, So you're gonna 732 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: earn more, have more autonomy, and be doing different work. Like, 733 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: you just don't know until you've really looked at what 734 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: is out there. People have never truly optimized on jobs. 735 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: It's always possible that you can find something that pays better, 736 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: you like more, and is more flexible. 737 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 3: Right. I love when you bring that up about the optimization, Like, 738 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 3: what is the chance do you just happened to land 739 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: in the most unicorn perfect, you know, highest paying, highest 740 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 3: reward job that you could have landed in, and there's 741 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 3: nothing better? But the chances of that are like seriously 742 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 3: very unlikely. Yeah, yes, so just remember that your employer 743 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 3: doesn't want you to think about that, but you have to. 744 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: Oh, you realize jobs all the time. It is totally fine, 745 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: So see what else is out there? And if there's 746 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: something you'd prefer to be doing. There's also the middle 747 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: ground of coming up, as Sarah say, ways to bring 748 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: in an income that don't involve working full time. Like 749 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: you can freelance. You can possibly even do your job 750 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: on an ad hoc basis for your current employer or 751 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 2: another one in the industry, so that you still have 752 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: some money coming in so you're not just living off 753 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: the interest income on your savings, because again, if you 754 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: retire early enough, it's gonna be a long time that 755 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: you're going to be trying to live off of this. 756 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: And that's fine if you can do it. Great. 757 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 2: Many people decide, even though after you know that they 758 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: do fire, that they want to do some sort of 759 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 2: work because work provides structure for life. 760 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: It provides a sense of purpose. 761 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 2: So even if you don't need the money, you might 762 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 2: find yourself looking for things that you'd like to do. 763 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: So if you have particular skills in area, why don't 764 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 2: you just start doing that. You can work twenty hours 765 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: a week doing it on the projects you choose and 766 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 2: still be building the nest egg allbe at a perhaps 767 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 2: slightly slower rate versus pulling it down. 768 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 3: So yeah, all right, Well, love of the week. Do 769 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: we have a work themed one from you, Laura? 770 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: My office, like I love my home office. It's really great. 771 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 2: It has nice windows, nice wood shelves. I have a 772 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: fireplace in there, which is gonna be great as we 773 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: get into winter. I have my recording closet, which apparently 774 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 2: has very very expensive wallpaper on the wall. 775 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: Like, who knew. 776 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: I didn't put that wallpaper, and I never would have 777 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: paid for it, but it was here and I didn't 778 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 2: rip it out. Now I'm glad I didn't because I've 779 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: had people see me in my zoom room as I 780 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: call it, and comment on the wallpaper when they know 781 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: something about it. So that's exciting. 782 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's really a great space. So I lucked 783 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: out on that. Love it well. Mine is the concept 784 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: of PTO. 785 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 3: I mean, one might argue in the US we could 786 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: have even more of that, because, as I know, in 787 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 3: other countries is customary. But honestly, just the idea that 788 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 3: you're allocated in a lot of career situations with days 789 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 3: that are just for you to decide what to do 790 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 3: with them. You'll still get paid and still have your 791 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 3: benefits is really nice and we should all maximize it. 792 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 3: And enjoy it and look for situations where we can 793 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 3: get enough of it but keep us happy. 794 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 1: Yeah sounds good. 795 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 2: Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been 796 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 2: talking about rekindling the flame at work. We will be 797 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 2: back next week with more on making work and life 798 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: fit together. 799 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 800 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 801 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can. 802 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 4: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 803 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 4: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 804 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 4: next time for more on making work and life work together.