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Speaker 1: Greetings from the California Delta, where you would still suck

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Speaker 1: at fishing. And the guy just tossed in a selfie

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Speaker 1: of him giving Troy the finger and he says with

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Speaker 1: a chuckle, Harley doesn't own boots. And I was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna freeze your ass off today. My name is

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Speaker 1: Hayden Samac and I admit it, I have a problem.

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Speaker 1: Rest assured. I've never met a captain who like just

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Speaker 1: thinks it's funny as ship when you and your boys

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Speaker 1: come out and get hammered you. Good morning to generate anglers,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Ben the fishing podcast that still hasn't

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Speaker 1: figured out that Doc Martins don't really qualify as good

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Speaker 1: winter boots. I'm Joe Surmelli and I'm Hayden Santa. Can

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Speaker 1: please tell me like I would love to see you

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Speaker 1: just like plunking around, you know, but like one of

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Speaker 1: those big clowns shoot Doc Martins, like the ones with

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Speaker 1: a giant viber like soul and like the like the

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Speaker 1: red kind of tint on him, like like a straight

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Speaker 1: edge kid. A are is not who there for their

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Speaker 1: first right edge kids. No, they're not there for anybody

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Speaker 1: who wants to wear them. Um, you can't see that

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Speaker 1: anymore at least, Um, but that used to be me.

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Speaker 1: I'd say you Now, I just wear Velcrow sketchers. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I did wear docks for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: all through high school pretty much because while you know,

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Speaker 1: like my Navy polo shirt and Khaki said he's a

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Speaker 1: good Catholic schoolboy, my boots said, my mom got me

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Speaker 1: these Doc Martin's for Christmas because they're mad expensive. So um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. So so like it

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Speaker 1: was a little bit of a nod to uh to

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Speaker 1: a rebellious streak then, I mean, like you kind of

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Speaker 1: it was like kind of download rebellion, very subdued rebellion. Well,

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Speaker 1: shoes were the only thing you were allowed to select

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Speaker 1: for yourself in Catholic school, so you know, you do

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Speaker 1: what you gotta do. But it also it always made

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Speaker 1: me wonder, right, like Doc Martin's were they super cheap

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Speaker 1: at some point because like, while mine we're always like

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Speaker 1: shining and new, the guys and Rancid's were beat to

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Speaker 1: death and there by cool. But it's some point like

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Speaker 1: they just went to Hot Topic to buy a pair

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Speaker 1: to right, like they were new and shiny at some point, well,

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Speaker 1: well they were cheaper when before doc you know, completed

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Speaker 1: his PhD and he was still missed the Martin. But

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Speaker 1: have have you ever kind of noticed it's like like

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Speaker 1: almost the opposite and fishing like nowadays, I feel well

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Speaker 1: worn is not in Like everyone wants to have all

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Speaker 1: this the new ship on all the time, like they

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Speaker 1: want to look like they just kind of stepped out

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Speaker 1: of the catalog and onto the water. It's like a

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Speaker 1: flex you know. Yeah, no, I and I I agree

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Speaker 1: for the most part. Like I can give you a

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Speaker 1: prime example, like I have, Um, I have a pair

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Speaker 1: of SIMS waiters that look like they've been fed through

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Speaker 1: a garbage disposal and like they smell even worse, but

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Speaker 1: they do not leak their their comfy as shit. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and therefore they're my preferred pair, despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: I have five other pairs and they're they're so gross

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Speaker 1: that I've actually had buddies at SIMS. Be like, can

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Speaker 1: you please stop wearing that pair of waiters in public?

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Speaker 1: Which I don't get because it's like it's a testament

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Speaker 1: to the quality of the product. Um, but guess what, Sims,

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Speaker 1: you don't make that model anymore. Right, Like they don't

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Speaker 1: make that that particular pair waiters anymore. I could go

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Speaker 1: down the street and take it up with them, Well

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Speaker 1: I could, I could, Yeah, we can both take it

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Speaker 1: up with him. Dude. No, they've they've been like they've

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Speaker 1: given me new waiters. I'm like, thanks, but I still

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Speaker 1: like this old beat pair. But anyway, every single time

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Speaker 1: I post a photo in those waiters, someone is like,

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Speaker 1: dear God, get him some new waiters. And I'm like, why,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's like it's like they're

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Speaker 1: so comfy, they're so good. Well, I mean, like there

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Speaker 1: are some accessories when it comes to fishing that like

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Speaker 1: you just don't really need to upgrade unless there's something

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Speaker 1: catastrophically wrong with them. And I mean this bar is

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Speaker 1: like major jumps in like technological evolution. Like for instance,

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Speaker 1: everybody was wearing like, you know, the Neopreme waiters and

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Speaker 1: then you know the breathable you know, Gorgonet, and so

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Speaker 1: now everybody wears those, and that's like an obvious transition

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Speaker 1: you might make. I can relate to this in my

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Speaker 1: waiting boots, man, I was rocking like this pair of

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Speaker 1: ll Bean waiting boots. I think the ll bean I

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Speaker 1: had since high school. I mean the things were literally

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Speaker 1: coming apart, you know. They were like the vinyl was

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Speaker 1: flaking off, and it was revealing that kind of like

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Speaker 1: a sub floor like carpeting kind of texture that's under him.

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Speaker 1: And I wore those things for I ship you not

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Speaker 1: fifteen years and just recently I upgraded to a pair

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Speaker 1: of Sims waiting boots only because I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: these things are so much, so much lighter, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean like necessity is one thing that things do

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Speaker 1: get worn out to the point of no return, But

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Speaker 1: I mean I've also just seen it get get kind

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Speaker 1: of ridiculous, um, you know again, like with jackets and

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Speaker 1: waiters and such. Like. Another example, I have an Aqua

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Speaker 1: Skins dry top that I used to wear when I

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Speaker 1: surf fished a lot more, and uh, in the early

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Speaker 1: two thousand's, Aqua Skins was like the king dog of

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Speaker 1: sexual sexual Like leave it in, I'm gonna start that over.

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Speaker 1: Another example, I have an Aqua Skins dry top that

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Speaker 1: I used to wear when I surfished a lot more,

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Speaker 1: and in the early two thousand's Aqua Skins was like

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Speaker 1: the king dog of technical surfishing. Apparel um, and they

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Speaker 1: no longer are. In fact, I'm not even sure that

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Speaker 1: they're that that company is around anymore. Um. But it was.

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Speaker 1: This is like a really well made, expensive top and

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Speaker 1: it's still fully functional. But in the year two, if

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Speaker 1: I showed up in Montalk wearing it, I I'd feel

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Speaker 1: like I'd I'd be labeled an instant Google just because

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Speaker 1: I was still wearing that old dry top, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I hate that ship because it's

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Speaker 1: not the latest and greatest whatever. Um, But something's good

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Speaker 1: and well made, I will use it to death. That

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Speaker 1: goes for rods and reels too, And I'd be willing

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Speaker 1: to bet tons of you listening right now own a

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Speaker 1: rod that you love that the company doesn't make anymore. Um.

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Speaker 1: There have been some for me over the years. I've

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Speaker 1: begged people at these are companies to bring back certain

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Speaker 1: series over the years. You know, yeah, you know what

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Speaker 1: you see It happen with bows a lot, sure, right.

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Speaker 1: I always wait like two years or so after like

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Speaker 1: a drastically new innovation has been made to buy like

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Speaker 1: that new model, because by then, you know, there's always

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Speaker 1: gonna be like some sort of like kink in it.

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Speaker 1: You know there's gonna be something that's like not exactly right,

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Speaker 1: so you want to give them that like year or

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Speaker 1: two until they mess it up. But if you have

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Speaker 1: a favorite old school rod that's been tried and true,

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Speaker 1: maybe like like an ORBS Superfine or something like that, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, definitely get one of those in the fly

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Speaker 1: fishing realm. If they no longer make your favorite like

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Speaker 1: spin casting rod, I have an alternative suggestion for you,

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Speaker 1: something that I think might even be preferable. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: we'd point you towards our beloved sponsors thirteen Fishing and

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Speaker 1: tell you to check out their line of rods, which

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Speaker 1: has been with them since they're being getting so so

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Speaker 1: nine years. The omen has been around. It was their

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Speaker 1: flagship model, and I gotta say I'm genuinely a big fan.

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Speaker 1: I have a pile of them, and it's it's tough

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Speaker 1: to find like such a such a selection of models

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Speaker 1: within a series, um, and such a well made stick,

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Speaker 1: no lie for the you know, for in that dollar range.

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Speaker 1: So something to think about as we inch or crawl

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Speaker 1: towards open water. Angling spring is somewhere out there on

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Speaker 1: the horizon. I'd like to think, you know, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know it is somewhere on the horizon, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's as close as you might think, Joe,

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Speaker 1: which is why we're staying firmly planned it on the

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Speaker 1: ice for this week's Smooth Move. I know we are

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Speaker 1: spring is uh yeah, it's still a ways out there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're staying on the ice and we're joined this week

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Speaker 1: by an old buddy of mine from New Hampshire, that

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Speaker 1: being Tim Moore. Now, Smooth Moves is our segment dedicated

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Speaker 1: to letting guides and Captain's bitch about dumb things clients

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Speaker 1: have done. And let's just say, well, Tim doesn't care

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Speaker 1: if you show up in a ripped Burton parka over

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Speaker 1: an Anthrax T shirt to hit the ice. He probably

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Speaker 1: would not be down with you showing up in Doc

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Speaker 1: Marton's why so joining us for Smooth Moves today, old

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Speaker 1: buddy man I haven't seen in a while. I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: him digitally now. It's been a few years. Tim more

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Speaker 1: of Tim Moore outdoors up in New Hampshire. What's going on, dude?

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Speaker 1: How you been I'm good man. It's good to see

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Speaker 1: your face. I think the last time we saw each

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Speaker 1: other was an IE cast. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And

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Speaker 1: the last time I saw you on the ice, we

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Speaker 1: didn't see anybody's faces because it was so insanely bitterly

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Speaker 1: cold today, Like we literally had our heads wrapped in

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Speaker 1: animal pelts. It was brutal. That was That was a

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Speaker 1: White Perch video shoot, and I remember that being extremely cold,

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Speaker 1: extremely cold. Yeah, that was a stressful one for me.

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Speaker 1: Why was that, I'm not priving to this conversation. Oh boy, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what was one of those? Like Tim was on it

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Speaker 1: and then we got there and like ship got all

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Speaker 1: screwed up with the water, which tends to happen to me. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also have recollections of like sort of sneaking through

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Speaker 1: backyards to access ice places because the places we wanted

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Speaker 1: to get home where no. Boy, Now, like there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of not frozen areas, as I recall, it was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of open water for February. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But for anybody who doesn't know, so Lake Winnipissauke, that's

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Speaker 1: the biggest lake in New Hampshire, right, the second largest

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Speaker 1: lake in New England. Ah see that there you go.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know all those fun facts, but we

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Speaker 1: got together for White Perch which is kind of like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a maligned species throughout the rest

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Speaker 1: of the country, like they exist in a lot of places,

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Speaker 1: but Winnie is known for giants. I mean they're like

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Speaker 1: they're damn near stripers. So we remember, we struggled for

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Speaker 1: a few days, but then that that second day magic hour,

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Speaker 1: like right at dark, I've never seen a screen. The

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Speaker 1: screen was just solid colors and just for a half hour.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't get a jig down there fast enough and

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Speaker 1: they brawl. That was a lot of fun um. But

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Speaker 1: you do a lot of other stuff up there. I

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Speaker 1: know Hayden is excited to talk to you. He just

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Speaker 1: called his first bourbon or cuss as you would call

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Speaker 1: him out there, and he says, well, Tim, give me

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Speaker 1: all his cusk secrets. And I said, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much cusk fishing Tim does, but here's your chance, Hayden.

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Speaker 1: What do you got? Well, it's more I guess what

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Speaker 1: Tim's got for me? Man, What do you got? Tim

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Speaker 1: just just starts spilling secrets. Man. That doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be in any particular order. State record, new state record

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Speaker 1: fell up there not long ago, right two weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: Two weeks ago, I don't remember how many pounds it was,

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Speaker 1: but it was like fifteen or sixteen pounds. It's big five.

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Speaker 1: I've caught thirty inches and they're just like you lift

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Speaker 1: them up and they just keep coming, keep coming, keep coming.

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Speaker 1: I think those fish are just so darn cool. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for one, it looks like, I don't know how familiar

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Speaker 1: you are with first light, but it looks like they're

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Speaker 1: in that first light cipher camo pattern. And I think

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Speaker 1: they're like totally beautiful fish, and they're everything I like

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Speaker 1: about catfish without like everything I don't. I e like,

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Speaker 1: basically just like those crazy as spines that they have. Man,

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Speaker 1: they're super voracious, like they taste great. Man. To me,

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Speaker 1: that is just like a pinnacle game fish. I love

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Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, they're they're fun to catch. And the colors.

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Speaker 1: You can catch one that's like really drab and brown,

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Speaker 1: and then the next one will have this like the

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Speaker 1: brightest yellow spots all over it, like snakeheads, man, same deal.

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Speaker 1: Some are like super copper and some are just like

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Speaker 1: black snakeheads whatever, the bourbon whatever they I called him

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Speaker 1: a game fish a minute ago. I think it was

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Speaker 1: like Minnesota or Michigan. Somewhere just classified bourbon is like

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Speaker 1: game fish, you know, off the rough fish Minnesota. I

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Speaker 1: think Minnesota they have the International el Pout Festival. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I have so many friends that fish form out there

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Speaker 1: that I've started calling an eel pout without even realizing it.

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Speaker 1: And my name. Actual buddies are like their cusk, Dude.

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Speaker 1: I've been sleeping out for him on the ice man.

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Speaker 1: That is so fun. Tim just wants to go to

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Speaker 1: his home take a hot shower. Yeah, anyway, So remind me, man,

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Speaker 1: how many years now you've been guiding professionally and you

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Speaker 1: do do open water as well, so everybody knows that

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Speaker 1: year around full time. Um, next week will be sixteen years. Nice,

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Speaker 1: six years full time, so you know, you know you

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Speaker 1: listen to events, so you know what smooth moves is about. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. If we're going hard water open water,

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Speaker 1: the floor is completely yours. Man, give us give us

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Speaker 1: the most memorable the one year still scratching your head

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Speaker 1: about over the years. That one is probably one that

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Speaker 1: every one of my clients since has heard. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard water. I mean, I probably have dozens of

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Speaker 1: of not so smooth moves that I've done, but I've

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Speaker 1: successfully managed to manipulate somebody else into taking the blame

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Speaker 1: for him, right, I don't even remember. Yeah, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it was it was ice fishing. Actually I met these

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Speaker 1: guys at the same parking lot that I met you

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Speaker 1: the first day that we fished. He was side note

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Speaker 1: to that real quick, just so people can get a visual,

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Speaker 1: Like you had one snow machine and our our butt.

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Speaker 1: Jim Fee, who's been on this show a bunch, was

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Speaker 1: there and like you basically pulled him in a tiny

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Speaker 1: sled behind us, and it was bitterly cold, and I

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Speaker 1: just remember looking back and just seeing Jim bundled up

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Speaker 1: in like a like the little sled down For the

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Speaker 1: first day, it was just that was the problem was

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Speaker 1: that it rained so like we were literally walking in

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Speaker 1: ten inches of water on top of that ice all day.

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Speaker 1: It was just it was crazy. And then and then

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Speaker 1: that afternoon, as soon as the rain stopped, the wind

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Speaker 1: came and that water was skimming over before we could

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Speaker 1: get off of it. Oh dude, the tent was collapsed

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Speaker 1: in the shop was collapsing around us. It was something else.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, so that parking lot, let's go back to

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Speaker 1: that park, Yeah, so Jason and Harley. Jason was he's

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Speaker 1: as like three tattoo shops in the areas a tattoo.

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Speaker 1: He decided to bring his shop helper Harley. And so

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Speaker 1: I meet them, and I've known Jason for a long

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Speaker 1: time and he they get out of the car and

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Speaker 1: we say hello and do our you know, exchange pleasantries

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Speaker 1: and all that, and to look down and Harley, Harley's

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Speaker 1: wearing Converse all Stars low tops, and I with with

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Speaker 1: with every ounce of hope that you could ever imagine.

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Speaker 1: I said, Harley, don't forget your boots, praying to God

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Speaker 1: that they were in the car like he just Jason

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Speaker 1: locked it prematurely or something. And he says, with a chuckle,

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Speaker 1: Harley doesn't own boots. And I was like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: And I said, you're going to freeze your ass off today,

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Speaker 1: and he said, I'll be fine. This this is what

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Speaker 1: I wear all all winter walking around town. I'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: And I said, Harley, I guarantee you that fine, that

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Speaker 1: that is the very last time today you'll use that word.

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Speaker 1: Is fine? Is gonna be so far out of your

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Speaker 1: vocabulary that you're you're I said, but there is a

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Speaker 1: word that I'll use later on, and I'll let you

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Speaker 1: know when I when when I it's time for your

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Speaker 1: new nickname an our And I look over and he's

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Speaker 1: standing on one leg and I said, switching them up?

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Speaker 1: I said, hey, Flamingo, how many times did you switched?

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Speaker 1: Said four? And I said you got this was I

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Speaker 1: used to do eight hour trips. I do six now

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Speaker 1: I said, you don't have seven hours more to go?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so what so did how? How did did

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Speaker 1: he did he make it? Did he made made it

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Speaker 1: till noon? And then did you guys have to bail

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Speaker 1: on the trip because he was wearing sneakers pretty much? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they were they weren't fishermen, so they were

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Speaker 1: like ready to go at noon anyway, But Hardy was hurting.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing that will knock out a fishing trip quicker

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Speaker 1: than like, uh, like a lack of proper footwear. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've seen, like I I it's actually conformed to philosophy

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Speaker 1: that I have about pretty much any outdoor pursuit. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's like you can buy really expensive rise, you buy

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Speaker 1: really expensive you know, guns, flashers, this that and the

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Speaker 1: other thing. Ultimately, like what is going to contribute to

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Speaker 1: your success The most in pretty much any outdoor pursuit

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Speaker 1: is being properly like outfitted as far as your retire

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Speaker 1: goes to be able to like stay in the pocket

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Speaker 1: like for the entirety, however long you want to do it.

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Speaker 1: This is this is one of the reasons why, Um,

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Speaker 1: I get invited on a lot of open boats. You know,

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Speaker 1: Captain self will be like, hey, man, if you want

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Speaker 1: to get out, I got open boat. I have had

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Speaker 1: some similar experiences where a day has been cut short

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Speaker 1: because you don't know who the guys on the open

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Speaker 1: boat are and if one of them is somebody's buddies,

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Speaker 1: cousin or whoever. Um, it's a long story to tell

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Speaker 1: me about. Tell it sometime. But I got a chance

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Speaker 1: to fish with Captain Frank Mundus, who was the inspiration

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Speaker 1: for Captain Quinn, on his original boat, the Cricket. And

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Speaker 1: there was a gentleman on board who was wearing a

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian shirt and the shortest shorts I've ever seen. And

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Speaker 1: it was raining sideways in June and like fifty six

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Speaker 1: degrees and rough as shit, and we ultimately never got

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Speaker 1: to wet a line. I never actually got to put

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Speaker 1: a line in the water. With Frank because that dude

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Speaker 1: was so shot and sick and freezing that we had

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Speaker 1: to turn around. I could only imagine like Joe's murderous

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Speaker 1: rage in that moment. It's actually hanging out with it.

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Speaker 1: It's a great story. But I I sympathize with that.

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Speaker 1: So so I mean, I imagine, you know, um so

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Speaker 1: so note to self. Then you don't provide ice fishing

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Speaker 1: clothes for clients. You don't have extra stuff, So that's

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Speaker 1: on you. And there when they have to go to

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Speaker 1: the ice fishing page on my website to book their trip,

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Speaker 1: and there is a whole list of what to bring,

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Speaker 1: what should I bring? And and I couldn't stress like

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Speaker 1: I think. It says, good boots, good boots, good boots.

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Speaker 1: Your feet will get cold first and stay called the longest.

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Speaker 1: If you think wearing hiking boots is gonna be okay,

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Speaker 1: you're wrong. And they wear hiking boots all the time.

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Speaker 1: Hiking boots, hiking boots and under armour, under arms, great stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's not good to fishing if you're moving. Under arms

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Speaker 1: great stuff. If you're moving, it's not so good when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're sitting still out here, like you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody wears muck boots everybody for everything. Everybody always has

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Speaker 1: neo pre knee highs. But like out Eastern, like the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's like not the case man. I

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Speaker 1: feel like the muck boot is underappreciated. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a following muck boot wears out here. But

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Speaker 1: you go on any like New Hampshire Facebook fishing group

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Speaker 1: and you'll see posts, you know, what are the best boots,

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Speaker 1: and there's five choices of people that insist that they

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Speaker 1: wear the best boots. But I mean, you gotta at

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Speaker 1: least have to try hiking boots. I don't even consider

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Speaker 1: that trying. No, So you're like laceless is like number one. Yeah, yeah,

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00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: well what's your boot of choice? Man? I mean, so

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Speaker 1: what matters most? Thickness of the soul. Like I've always

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Speaker 1: been told that like soul thickness is helpful on the ice,

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Speaker 1: right would agree? Some loft clam makes a really nice

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Speaker 1: It's probably the most comfortable rubber boot of every warren.

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Speaker 1: And it's warm, it's removable liners and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of loft into them. So air dead air is probably

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Speaker 1: the best, you know, installation that you can have. If

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Speaker 1: you took nothing else away from this, you now have

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Speaker 1: a recommendation on what kinds of boots will get you

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Speaker 1: through a day with Tim Moore on Lake Winni Kasaki, Yep.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of regular clients that wear those

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Speaker 1: sub zero X boots from Clam those guys, those sneaker guys.

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Speaker 1: Ever come back? No, no, Well maybe I will see

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Speaker 1: you this winner. Man. I would love to come up

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Speaker 1: there and catch a bigger cusk. Then Hayden's caught out

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Speaker 1: in Montana. They're gonna get there together. Who knows? You

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Speaker 1: guys are both experts. I'm an expert in a lot

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Speaker 1: of things, Joe, I'm an expert in no things. Joe,

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Speaker 1: tell you what low top Chucks might be a poor

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Speaker 1: choice on the ice. But the but the high top

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00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: ones in the in the classic off white color were

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Speaker 1: the original flats booties. Did you know that? In fact,

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Speaker 1: I know dudes that still wear them for that. It

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Man. Like I was when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, I used to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of like you know, just mucking around and creeks and

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00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and I those were my preferred shoe

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00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,199
Speaker 1: with choice. I mean it happened that it coincided with

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Speaker 1: my EMO phase, so I did have a lot of

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Speaker 1: high top Chucks on hand. But you know, we're gonna

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00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: bring up your EMO phase again later by the way. Yeah, well, anyway,

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00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: they may make sense because those flat booties come up

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Speaker 1: high to protect you know, the backs or ankles from

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00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 1: sting rays and ship you know. Yeah, though ironically the

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00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 1: economics have kind of reversed. Like there was a time

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00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,719
Speaker 1: I think when chucks were dirt cheap, and like early

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00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: early versions of flats booties were expensive. Now it's the

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00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 1: other way around, sadly, right, Like high top Chucks, because

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00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: I looked, are significantly more money than a pair of

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00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: near preen flats boots. So well, that's like kind of

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Speaker 1: the confluence of inflation and fashion trends, two topics you

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Speaker 1: might expect to be covered by legitimate news source, which

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Speaker 1: we are not. So who the all knows what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about in this week's edition of fish News.

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00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:10,719
Speaker 1: Fish News that escalated quickly. Before we jump in here,

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Speaker 1: I gotta give a quick shout out if I may

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Speaker 1: to listener Chad Mason for an email he sent. Now.

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Speaker 1: The subject line of Chad's email was simply, oh god, rule.

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Speaker 1: Now we've got to bring this up because this is

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00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: too funny, dude, come on and in it. Here's here's

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Speaker 1: what Chad suggests. He writes, how bad if we aim

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00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: to get the yeah man total down to know more

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Speaker 1: than two per podcast, that seems like an achievable goal.

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00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: It's a yeah man rate, like he did math, that

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00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: would annoy only the most annal retentive listeners, who shouldn't

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00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: be allowed to set the bar. But if Hayden get

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00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: there by April first, here's the rule. He has to

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00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: get assault Life tattoo in a highly visible look. There

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Speaker 1: is absolutely no way. But I love how he combines

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Speaker 1: the yeah man thing with you way back openly admit

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00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: that you you'd pretty much get any tattoo, which is

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00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: like a little cajol ng Yeah. I mean like when

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Speaker 1: when I said I'd pretty much get any tattoo, I

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Speaker 1: meant like, um, you know, like excluding like a I

424
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: you did say you'd be open to a brand. You

425
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: mentioned getting a first idea. I was joking. I was joking, man,

426
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: yeah man, Salt Life dude. You know now listen, I

427
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: would not know no, Chad, thank you. It is funny

428
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: I would never let you get us, I say, yeah man,

429
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: in that response, I think I might have. You might have.

430
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: Don't to play it back, Yeah man, salt life, dude,

431
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: time for tattoos? Are you sure it's life with like

432
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: a y like that? Why don't you shut up my job?

433
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: Um no, but I could not let you do that.

434
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: I would never I would never allow that. So uh,

435
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: funny idea. But no, that's not gonna wait, No, that

436
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: can't happen. Like no, I like you too much. Oh

437
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: thanks man, thank you. Well. Anyway, look, hey, I got

438
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: an idea. Whoever loses this week has to get a

439
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: yeah man tattoo on his upper RICKI no. Also, it's

440
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: hard for me. I don't look cool anyway. Remember, folks,

441
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: this is fishing news. This is a competition. Joe and

442
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: I do not know which news story the other guys

443
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 1: bringing to the table, and at the end of it,

444
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 1: our audio engineer Phil Taylor will decide who wins and

445
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: whether that yeah man tattoo has to have barbed wire

446
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: or tribal accents around Joe, it is your lead, man,

447
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: what do you I'd go? I go full barbed wire. Um. Yeah,

448
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: so let's see, this is one of those weeks that

449
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: produced a lot of great fishing stories, lots to pick from.

450
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: So I'm extremely glad that it is my my lead

451
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: this week, and I didn't have to grapple that much

452
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: because it's my lead, because I knew this afforded the

453
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: opportunity to cover what might be the greatest fish news

454
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: story we've ever had. Um A ton of you guys

455
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: sent this along, so finally now we can all get

456
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: together and talk about Troy. So Troy, Troy, whose last

457
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: name is is not known, but that's for the better.

458
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: That's fine. Troy is from Minnesota and uh he and

459
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: a group of his buddies frequently get together to fish

460
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: both open water and on the ice, same group of dudes.

461
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: Another member of that group, by the way, goes by Chappie,

462
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: which instantly tells me he's a good time. And then

463
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: there's group member David V. Now prayer the story about

464
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: this on in forum dot com. It's extremely common for

465
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: Troy to catch nothing when he goes fishing, but I

466
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: would like to point out that does, not, however, make

467
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: him a gooch. So we've talked a lot about the

468
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: beach on this show. A gooch. You remember the gooch.

469
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna explain. I'm gonna re explain the gooch here,

470
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: so it'll fill you in because we've talked about the

471
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: gooch on this show and see already you're going sexual

472
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: body parts and that's not what it is at all. Well, yeah,

473
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: you should have you were listening before you got here. Anyway, Anyway,

474
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: to be to be a goucher, as we've said, your

475
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: presence alone needs to ruin everybody's good time. You have

476
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: to be the bringer of wind and rain or your

477
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: aura by itself just has to stop everyone else from

478
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: catching fish. That's what a goucher is. So like you're

479
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: the guy that just brings the fishing down. Okay, but

480
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: that's not Troy. He's not the gooch because everyone else

481
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: on these trips is apparently successful. In fact, in this story,

482
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: David recalls a trip where Chappie had tied one on

483
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: pretty good the night before wound up sleeping in the

484
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: boat for most of the following day. Troy had caught

485
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: nothing that day, and suddenly, uh in the afternoon, Chappie

486
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: rouses for just a brief moment out of his his

487
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: hangover stupor, just in time to see his bober go

488
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: down and he catches a fish. Right, So I don't

489
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: even I don't even know these guys, but I love

490
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: these guys because group has their version of Troy, and

491
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: and Troy is necessary to keep ball busting levels up

492
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: to you know, too proper levels and banner constant um.

493
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: So he basically fills the role that I do here. Yes, correct,

494
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: that is right, bing um. But what seems to have

495
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: unfolded in this group is a is a game of

496
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: ball busting one upsmanship. So they always gave each other

497
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: a hard time, right as long as they've been fishing together.

498
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: But Troy leveled it up not long ago by hiring

499
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: Christopher McDonald, the actor who is obviously best known for

500
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: playing Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore on Cameo. He hired

501
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: him to record this video message, you guys really think

502
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna beat Troy on your ice fishing trip this year?

503
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: That's Christopher McDonald of Happy Gilmore fame. Troy arranged this

504
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: personalized message. I just want to say that cameo is

505
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: one of the best inventions of like, oh it is

506
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: recent times. In fact, one time, my buddy dropped an

507
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: album that he had been working on for quite some time,

508
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: and I hired Chris Hanson of To Catch a Predator

509
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: to review his album Nice. My brother in law sent

510
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: a valentine, had iced Tea sent a Valentine to my

511
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: sister in law, freaking iced tea. I'm like, wow, I'm

512
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: gonna see if I can find that video review man

513
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: William Brown. Why does that name sounds so lyrically familiar?

514
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: William Chris Hanson Here Hanson versus petitors and to Catch

515
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: Repetitor William Gonna need you to have a seat right

516
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: over there. I've been going through some transcripts and I

517
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: see where you just released a single called Birthday Punches.

518
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: I took a listen pretty good. Good luck with that anyway.

519
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: Good luck with that. I'll be watching and listening. Please

520
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: know that head wishes you all the best as well.

521
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Take care. I'll show you on the TVA cameo. I've

522
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: never used cameo, but it's kind of cool anyway. So

523
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: Troy had McDonald shoot that video and he just sent

524
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: it around to the group to bust balls, and David said, okay,

525
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: hold my beer and answered that by taking out ad

526
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: space on a massive led billboard up near Brainerd, Minnesota,

527
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: which is a super fishy town. Right. All the ad

528
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: featured and this is like a big highway billboard was

529
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: a giant photo of Troy and the words Troy sucks

530
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: at fishing. Now closer, man, I did see this, and

531
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: this is it wasn't your lead. You knew I was taking.

532
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I thought I thought that it could have been the

533
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: olden crapy, but I I realized now that it could

534
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: only have been this. It could only have been you, Troy. Well,

535
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: there were there were better story and I don't know

536
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: what you grab, but they're like there were like there

537
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: were like some serious winds in Colorado stream access this

538
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: week and that's like a major thing in Colorado. Awesome,

539
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry, but like Troy sucks at fishing

540
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: billboard just like scroll, I'm sorry, I have to do this,

541
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: like this is like the greatest this is the greatest thing.

542
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: Um So anyway, David and company, they could have stopped

543
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: there with just that billboard that said Troy sucks at fishing,

544
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: but nay, they went the extra mile to have the

545
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: Troy sucks at fishing text change flash over to talk

546
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: smack to him at Troy sucks too. At gmail dot com.

547
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: And I mean that's just a straight bravo. I mean bravo,

548
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: But I had to know a little more. You know,

549
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: we're going to draft up an email as soon as

550
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: we get done this podcast, right, I already beat you

551
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: to it because I wanted answers to a few questions

552
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: not covered in the news reports. So I tracked David

553
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: down and reached out to him right now. First and foremost,

554
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: I was curious about the financials of this one upsmanship, right,

555
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: and I learned that to get Shooter McGavin to send

556
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: you a cameo video that will cost you two and

557
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: twenty dollars, which is pretty spendy. And props to Troy

558
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: because he made the first move there, like he made

559
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: the first move, but um an ad on the giant

560
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: led billboard. Well, surprisingly that only costs David two so

561
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: so so technically he won in terms of the spend,

562
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: but not by much. But I have to give it

563
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: the round to David, because while the Shooter McGavin video

564
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: like that's good, it's only shared among the group, whereas

565
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: David spent about the same amount of money for full

566
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: public humiliation. So like his round like that's David's round. Um. Now,

567
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: mind you, this only happened last week, right, but David

568
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: told me that the Troy Sucks Gmail has already sieved

569
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: over three messages from as far away as Costa Rica, Australia,

570
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: and Sweden. He's gotten loads from Canada and emails from

571
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: pretty much every state in the Union. Uh. Now he

572
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: forwarded me, at my request, a handful of these emails,

573
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 1: and and most are as you'd expect, pretty jovial and

574
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: just jokey um. As an example, one says your mate

575
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: has pumped you bad, looking forward to your reply. I

576
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: suck at fishing too, Regards from Ballina, Australia. Um. Another

577
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: another reads greetings from the California Delta, where you would

578
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: still suck at fishing. And the guy just tossed in

579
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: a selfie of him giving Troy the finger. Um, you know,

580
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: and he was. He was naturally inundated with memes. But

581
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: my favorite one, uh just had the subject line I'll

582
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: fish with you, but the message just read that guy,

583
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: so it was home gamut, whole whole gamut. Right. Uh so, Hey,

584
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: congratulations to all parts involved, Troy included, because this is

585
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: great and it leaves me wondering though, Troy, how are

586
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: you going to top that? Like people are now expecting

587
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: you to come back bigger and batter, and I got

588
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: to I gotta tell you, I wasn't necessarily planning on

589
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: watching the super Bowl, but now I'm going to just

590
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: in case there's like a halftime commercial about David v

591
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: sucking at fishing starring Troy. I mean, that is, in

592
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: my opinion, really the only honorable response. Now, listeners, if

593
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know this, Joe and I live in

594
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: separate parts of the country. Yes, I am in Bozeman

595
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: and we are recording this podcast via video chat right now. Now, Joe,

596
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: you might have noticed that I was looking down on

597
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: my phone just then. Yes, uh, Listeners, on my Instagram story,

598
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: you are going to find a a a photo of

599
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: this billboard and it is going to have a poll beneath,

600
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: and the poll will be requesting comments that we can

601
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: send to Troy. I will be aggregating a group email.

602
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: If you feel like being on that email, respond to

603
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: the poll with your comment to Troy, and I will

604
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: make damn sure that it gets to him. Please enter

605
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: your password. You have one unheard message for the FOPS

606
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: facers so I'm going to pot fresh. I'm not sure

607
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: why I'm having so much trouble using stamps to purchase

608
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: fresh Poka. Please call Bob. End of message, delete press

609
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: seven save deleted. Alright, Joe, So this week on fish News,

610
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: we are we're gonna go back to the European coast

611
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: and talk about something way less fun than a billboard

612
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: ragging on your buddy or a group of Irish fishermen

613
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: out gaming war gaming Russians. Um uh So. I originally

614
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: saw this on Inside or So that's my original source there,

615
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: although I've I've picked up bits and pieces from other

616
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: online publications, some of which I've now bought subscriptions to.

617
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: So thank you meat Eater anyhow. Dude, quick thing about that,

618
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: if you if you just keep changing browsers like a

619
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: million times, eventually you'll get beyond the paywall. Sounds like

620
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: I owe you money again, Meat Eater anyhow, don't support journalism.

621
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: We wouldn't want to do that, all right. So look,

622
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: this past Thursday, it emerged that the second largest fishing

623
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: vessel in the world, the f V Margaris, lost or

624
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: dumped a massive catch of fish, depending on who you ask.

625
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: The fish in question were blue whiting uh, type of

626
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: cod most often used for fish sticks and other commercial

627
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: fish products like you know, like cod oil and fish meal.

628
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: Estimates put the number of lost fish somewhere in the

629
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: range of one hundred thousand fishes. It's a lot of

630
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: a lot of count now now I said, uh, lost

631
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: or dumped, because there are varying accounts of how all

632
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: these dead fish ended up floating off the coast of France.

633
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: So from my understanding of it, the first group of

634
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: folks to bring this to global attention was the controversial

635
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: conservation group Sea Shepherd If. Yeah, if you don't know uh,

636
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: if somehow you don't know about Sea Shepherd um, they're

637
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: widely considered a group of extremists, even by the standards

638
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: of like other conservationists. In fact, as reported by the BBC,

639
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve, the Ninth Circuit of Appeals

640
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: issued an injunction forbidding vessels in the Sea Shepherd Fleet

641
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: from approaching within five hundred meters of any Japanese whaling vessels,

642
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: citing the Sea Shepherd fleets use of often violent tactics

643
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,479
Speaker 1: UH in their anti whaling efforts. Japan has at least

644
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: at some point labeled the Sea Shepherd crew is eco terrorists,

645
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: and in that injunction I just mentioned the judge just

646
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: flat out called them pirates and told them to mind

647
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: their own damn business. Okay, so that's the Sea Shepherd folks.

648
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: All that said, The c Shepherd folks are the people

649
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: who first bought this to light. Uh. Now, Joe, do

650
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: you think they're on the lost it or dumped it side?

651
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, I'll go with dumped at Alex you would

652
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: be correct. So the Sea Shepherd contends that the one

653
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: thousand blue whiting were actually by catch and dumped it

654
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: sea in order to save the f V Margaret's uh

655
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: the trouble of having to go to port and declare

656
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: by catch as required by the EU law. On the

657
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: flip side of this, we have the narrative as according

658
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: to the definitely not financially invested Pelagic Freezer Trawler Association,

659
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: who just happened to represent the Dutch company that owns

660
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: the mark gears uh and contend that the fish were

661
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: not dumped, but rather the net broke due to the

662
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: presence of abnormally large blue whiting overwhelming what they call

663
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: the cod end of the nets and What they mean

664
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: by that is like not like an unusually law large catch,

665
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: but like the individual sizes of these like specimens like

666
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: these were on an individual basis very large blue whiting. Anyhow,

667
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: So a real quick lesson on this type of fishing vessel.

668
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: The margaris is a a midwater pelagic trawler. When people

669
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: hear trawler, for whatever reason, they immediately think of something

670
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: like dragging up the bottom, and that's not what this is.

671
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: It's a pelagic trawler, so it targets fish above the

672
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: sea floor with these like giant ass nets. In the

673
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: case of this vessel, um these nets are nearly a

674
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: mile long. Um also a it's what it's what's called

675
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: a freezer trawler, which is basically a fishing vessel capable

676
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: of processing it's catch at sea. And we actually touched

677
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: on this a while back in uh in that cod

678
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: story I I did about the about the cod fisheries

679
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: off the coast of Maine. Um. Yeah, heart of the

680
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: decline of that fishery was related to the advent of

681
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: these ultra efficient fishing vessels, and there are a bill

682
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: need to fish harder and longer. Anyhow, the p f

683
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: A put out as the Freezer Trawler Association UH put

684
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: out a statement. I'm a member, put out a statement

685
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: saying that, yeah, that this event was due to an

686
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: unusually large catch, basically breaking the net. So which is it?

687
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: It would seem as if the c Shepherd folks make

688
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: a half decent argument in that going back to Port

689
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: to declare by cash would be a huge pain for

690
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: the Margearis and ultimately cost the vessel like just just

691
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: a ton of money. Sure now that I mean, yeah, exactly, Yeah,

692
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's financials at play here. I'm sure

693
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: right now that line of thinking makes for a compelling argument,

694
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: except when you consider the blue whiting is a target species.

695
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: The p f A points out that the Marghearis has

696
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: a quota for blue whiting and that it makes no

697
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: sense to dump a valuable fish. I'll mention that in

698
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: everything I've read, there hasn't been a suggestion of, like,

699
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 1: what more desirable fish the fishing vessel may have dumped

700
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: their catch up blue whiting in order to make room

701
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: for you know, it's not like they were like, oh yeah,

702
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: I mean they ran into this school of ship with

703
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: like their of blue whiting with their net down. Well,

704
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: so they're a freezer trawler. So they lost that that net,

705
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: that's what they're saying. And then what was in the hold?

706
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: What what did they have? Goes to mention that It

707
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: doesn't mention that I or at least not in anything

708
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: that that that I saw. Um So look, the reason

709
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: I picked the story is it kind of you have

710
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: two factions of folks, right, You have like the Shepherd,

711
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, inclined folks who are like everything that happens

712
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: is like an environmental disaster. And then you have the other,

713
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: uh you know, hard line stand which comes from like

714
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: the commercial fishing industry that goes, well, no, actually we

715
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong, and this is like a huge

716
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: loss for us. It just kind of highlights the danger

717
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: of like picking one side and like digging your heels

718
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: and on it. You know what I mean. I do

719
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: know what you mean. I think you know you're talking

720
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: about a middle ground here in commercial fishing. I don't

721
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: because they're ever going to be peace, love and harmony here.

722
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't because every recreational angler and uh you know,

723
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: environmental group like c Shepherd will always believe that the

724
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: commercial fleet is not on the up and up. I

725
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: mean there's pages of data, there's associations governing both sides

726
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: of this, But I mean, I don't think there's ever

727
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: gonna be a win there. You know, anytime something something

728
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: that that you want, you know you can't have. I'll

729
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: use flounder as an example. Well, it's very hard to

730
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: catch keeper flounder in Jersey now and the you know,

731
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: the limit is very small, and that really hurt the

732
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: recreational fishing community. Right, But if you ask any devoted

733
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: flounder fisherman, like, what's the problem, that's God's goddamned draggers.

734
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: That's right where you go. That's right where you go,

735
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: even though there's regulations on those guys that we assume

736
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: are being followed, and they'll tell you they are, and

737
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: everybody else will tell you they won't. So like, if

738
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: you're looking for like the shangri la where everybody's happy,

739
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 1: it's very clear that all the commercial operations are doing

740
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: exactly what they're supposed to do, and those things also

741
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: match what environmental and recreational groups want to see. I

742
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: don't know if that ever exists. Sucks, but I don't

743
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever going to exist. Right, Well,

744
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: this is basically like the latest installment of that fight.

745
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, it's something that I thought was

746
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: worth bringing to folks attention. So anyway, that's basically what

747
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: happened to C. Shepherd is like, these guys are bad

748
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: fish dumpers and the Polagic Freezer Troller Association is now

749
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: paying their pr guide double and uh Frances, uh Frances

750
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: looking into the issue. Well France, they come from France.

751
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: They'll let us know what happens there. Um yeah, man,

752
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: it's tough deal. You hate to see any fish wasted.

753
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: But if who's right, who's wrong? No way to answer

754
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: that question. Their net may have broke. Ship happens. Ship

755
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: breaks all the time on boats. God knows, I know

756
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: it because I've had many boats and something is always broken. Anyway,

757
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: Uh Phil, commercial commercial fishing, travesties or Troy who sucks it?

758
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: Probably commercial fishing as well as recreational fishing. Uh let

759
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: us know. We're gonna hear from Phil. He's gonna judge us.

760
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: And then when we're done with that, we're gonna do

761
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: a fin clips, which we haven't done in a while.

762
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Um on on, oh yeah, you're right, Phil did the

763
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: last finclips. It's gonna be It's gonna be on Hayden's

764
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: current favorite fish, so we'll we'll listen to that, and

765
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: then as soon as he catches something else he hasn't

766
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: caught before, we'll have another fin clips on his new

767
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: favorite fish. Joe, you do not suck at fish News.

768
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: You're the winner this week, I believe it or not.

769
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: I actually met Chris Hansen once. It was a little

770
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: awkward at first, but after he told me to put

771
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: down the ziema and to take a seat, you know,

772
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: he actually had a pretty eye opening conversation. He told

773
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: me I should have gone with a smear knof Ice

774
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: or Bartels and James, and you know, God damn it,

775
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: he was right. He was right. I've recently become obsessed

776
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: with a fish. I've been pouring over studies in why

777
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: everything from academic lectures to YouTube catch and cooks. I've

778
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: been fishing for them as much as my free time allows,

779
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: like camping on the ice the last three weekends in

780
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: a row, falling asleep with my flasher on and hoping

781
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: I'll wake to the sound of bells jingling on the

782
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: end of my dead stick. I've probably bought a thousand

783
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: dollars worth of gear between tip ups, jigs, shelters, a

784
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: negative degrees sleeping bag which really is in a negive

785
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: degree sleeping bag, um, a buddy heater, and I couldn't

786
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: even tell you what else. My name is Hayden Samac

787
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: and I admit it, I have a problem. My girlfriend

788
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: would agree. The object of my obsession is a fish

789
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: by many names h lawyer, eel, pout, cusk, and scientifically

790
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: load of load to, but you might know them best

791
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: as bourbon. A bourbon is the only fresh water gataform

792
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: meaning cod like fish, and it thrives in cold water

793
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: lakes and rivers. There are circumpolar species endemic around the

794
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: world above forty parallel. What makes them so interesting to

795
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: me is their uniqueness. These fish are singular when it

796
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: comes to many facets of their existence. Let's start with

797
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: their physicality. The bourbon truly looks unlike any other freshwater

798
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: species of fish. For starters, they have a singular barble

799
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: at the base of their chin, which is actually where

800
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: they get their common name of bourbon. You know, barble bourbon. Uh.

801
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: They're a long, cylindrical fish with no noticeable scales excepting

802
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: the largest specimens, and even then it's mostly around their head. Additionally,

803
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: many bourbon have this beautiful modeled pattern, and as you

804
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: heard me mentioned to Tim a little earlier, it reminds

805
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: me a lot of the first lighth cipher Camo pattern.

806
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: Bourbon are also some of the only fish that communicate

807
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: with sound, using muscles around their swim bladder to make

808
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: percussive noises. Bourbon are truly nocturnal and come up from

809
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: their deep water daytime haunts into the shallows to spawn

810
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: and feed at night. Speaking of spawning, bourbon are unique

811
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: in that they spawn in the dead of winter, mostly

812
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: under ice. Besides the timing, their method of spawning is

813
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: a little unique. As broadcast spawners, they congregate into balls

814
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: of writhing fish which some folks call mating balls, and

815
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: release milt and eggs into the water that hopefully fertilize

816
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: and land safely in the substrate, where they'll incubate and

817
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: hatch into larval bourbon. Aside from my admiration of the

818
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: fish itself, what I really like about bourbon is catching them. Uh.

819
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: In my own limited understanding of bourbon fishing, you know,

820
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm still new at this. Most of it is done

821
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: through the ice. I like to set tip ups in

822
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 1: ten to twenty ft of water with a number six

823
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: trouble hook egg sinker and a short twenty pound floral

824
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: leader for bait I like chunk sucker um. I've also

825
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: had luck jigging for bourbon with a heavy one ounce

826
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: glowing jig with a glowing tube or grub and a

827
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: piece of sucker meat. Uh. Folks make bourbon specific jigs

828
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: known as pound pounders to catch them, which are which

829
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: are basically heavy glowing araddling jigging spoons, and a lot

830
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: of folks fishing into great effect should you catch them.

831
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: I found bourbon to be delicious. Their flesh, in my opinion,

832
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: is just about the best tasting of any freshwater species

833
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: I've ever had. Their livers, which comprise ten percent of

834
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: their body weight, are perfect for making patte. I made

835
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: one the other day, and Steve Rinella, the man himself,

836
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: told me it was among the best things he'd ever eat.

837
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: I'd have to agree, although I'm not sure it had

838
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: as much to do with my culinary prowess so much

839
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: as the deliciousness of the primary ingredient, the bourbon. So

840
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: there you have it. And Neophyte's description of a bourbon

841
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: and catching them. I'll be fishing for them, admiring them,

842
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: and eating them as often as possible going forward. And

843
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: while I was very pleased indeed to catch my first

844
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: walleye the other day, I think bourbons are sincerely my

845
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: new favorite fish. Post him if you got him. We'd

846
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: love to see photos of you with your personal best bourbon,

847
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: So make sure to throw those up on the old

848
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: Instagram and use the Degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags,

849
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: and if you want to hear us sing the praises

850
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: of your favorite fish, right to Bent at the Meat

851
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: Eater dot com with your nomination. So first, I think

852
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: we can put bourbon to bed for a while now

853
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: it's getting almost as annoying as my snakeheads. But I

854
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: gotta bring something up. Right. You went out the other

855
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: night bourbon fishing with our colleague Sam Longgren, Right, yes,

856
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: okay at Sam posted a picture of you on a

857
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: ground pad in your sleeping bag, holding a nice bourbon.

858
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: And I didn't really think anything the shot like nothing,

859
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: nothing struck me really, um, but you you happen to

860
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: have some wicked hat hair in that photo that kind

861
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: of gave you like the swooping sideways Emo bangs, and

862
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: listener Chad Camp wrote in and said that you look

863
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: like someone whose dad took him to see the Black Parade,

864
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: and I was, and I was like, O MG, was

865
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: that of my chemical romance reference? Bravo, Chad. I not

866
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: have done better myself. It's so ironic, though, because I

867
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: think people think you're high, which you aren't, and now

868
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: they think you're an emo kid, which maybe you had

869
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: a phase, but I really like that's not really your

870
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: jam now, Like that's not what you're listening. I had

871
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: a straight up emo kid phase, man, and you did.

872
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man? It started. Uh. It started with me

873
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: coming from a like like it wasn't like a Catholic school,

874
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: but it was where you'd wear like uniforms and stuff.

875
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: And then I went right into like our public school

876
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: system after like that grade school kind of ended. It

877
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: ended at sixth grade, and I had a wicked crush

878
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: on this chicken Nicole and I just remember being like,

879
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: all right, I'm going to be emo now because it

880
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: seems like that's where this girl lay so okay, So

881
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: I committed. Man. I had like I had like a

882
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: little piece of my hair dyed red and ship oh

883
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 1: good for you. So you're you're, You're. My dad took

884
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: me to get it died. My dad took me to

885
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: get it died. So we didn't take me to the

886
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: Black Parade, but he took me to like the Red Salon.

887
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: I guess that's so okay, there's there's an age gap

888
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: between us. So then like who was your band during

889
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: that phase? Like, like who was the big deal in

890
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: the you not you not? It was my Chemical Romance

891
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: they used scared me? Okay, all right, well then before

892
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: you Helena is still a great song. Helene is a

893
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: pretty good song. I'll give him. I'll give him Helena.

894
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: Quick story though, right my high school band headlined a

895
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: show in Jersey that My Chemical Romance opened, and it

896
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: was ship no true story. It was their first show ever,

897
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: and we were like dorks. Look at these nerds, freaking

898
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: whiney chumps. They're singing about their feelings like not masturbation

899
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: and drinking mad dog like we do like the cool

900
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: kids do. Yeah, anyway, if y'all got any of that

901
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: Black Parade money's still kicking around, you know, you can

902
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: help out a fishing brother my Chemical Romance. But yeah, dude,

903
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: that's a that's true story. Uh, speaking which, how about

904
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: we help a They're out this week in our own

905
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: way with a new edition of the bent Helpline. What

906
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: do you laughing at, Martini? You're not an idiot, you're

907
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: not a gamblony hell boy, you're a fisherman. Best, what's

908
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: your emergency? So welcome to the bent Helpline, where we

909
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: read or I guess play if you're sending it in

910
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: an audio file, your listener questions and then Joe and

911
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,919
Speaker 1: I do our best to answer them. Uh. This week

912
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: we got a question from Kinger eleven eighty six, whose

913
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: question is simply, why can't I get a goddamn steelhead

914
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: to bite? I'm going absolutely mad? Now, Hayden chose this question.

915
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: By the way, I want to preface it with that,

916
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: don't you preface before I preface. I heard you about

917
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: to say preface. Oh don't don't double preface me. I'm

918
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: going to preface it by by saying, if you're a

919
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: West Coast dude, I can't really help you based I think,

920
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: but you're coming up against in that fishery is a

921
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: declining at least if you're talking about wild fish. As

922
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: we touched on there like plenty of rivers that have

923
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: hatchery fish, but if you're fishing for wild steel head um,

924
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: the numbers are not good and swinging flies is hard. Bro.

925
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: You know, like like that. That's that's basically Can we

926
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: can we be totally open and honest with our listeners

927
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: about this question? Can we do that? Maybe? I don't know,

928
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: it depends. My first question when you suggested this question

929
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: was is he a West Coast guy or an East

930
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: Coast guy? Like an East Coast guy right? And I

931
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: was like, how do you know? And you were like,

932
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: because I feel it just looking at him, he's an

933
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: East Coast guy. So yeah, I mean, neither one of

934
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: us are experts in west side steel um. So if

935
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: that's if that's what you're trying to catch, uh, let

936
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: us know and we could point you to some experts

937
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: in that arena. But and if you're more interested in

938
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: East coast steel, let us know that and help me

939
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: prove my point to Joe that folks asking this question

940
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: are fishing the Great Lakes. You're probably right. I'm not.

941
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: I'm not on that because people know that that we

942
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: both love Great Lakes steel. I just think it's funny

943
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: because I'm like that's very open ended and we don't

944
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: know where he's from. Um, I'll tell you what the

945
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: real question here, Like, the real variable is if he's talking, uh,

946
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: fly or spin. Now, you have probably done more spin

947
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: fishing for steelhead than I have. And while I don't

948
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: think that I've done more fly fishing for steelhead than

949
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: you have, it is still something that I feel very

950
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: confident speaking towards. So why don't you take the lead

951
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: and give him some spin advice and then I'll follow

952
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: you up with my take on fly fishing for him.

953
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: Well that's fine, but I'm going to take a different

954
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: approach because I think because of the lack of information

955
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: we have here on on on how he's trying to

956
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: target these fish and where he's trying to target these fish.

957
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: Like anytime somebody's like I'm really having trouble catching this

958
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: or I want to catch bigger these, Um, the simplest

959
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: piece of advice is get out there and target them

960
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: as much as you possibly can, Like, no matter what

961
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: you are trying to fish for, if you are struggling,

962
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 1: because again, dude, it's it's hard without knowing, Like what

963
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: did you go once last year? Did you go fifteen

964
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: times like even if you don't really know what you're doing,

965
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: the more you go, the more you'll figure it out,

966
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: which will ultimately lead to catching more and bigger fish.

967
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: So um, you know in in in terms of spinning, Um,

968
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: well you're really quick. And you know something I want

969
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: to tack onto that is you gotta be careful of

970
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: like what kind of media you're consuming and what where

971
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: It originated when I was first getting into Steelhead. It

972
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: was actually a bus drive like my my like school

973
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 1: bus driver is the one who really fostered that interest.

974
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: Man that that dude was great. His name was Tony Spagnola.

975
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: He used to give me all sorts of fly tying

976
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: material that he wasn't using anymore, all sort of like

977
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: stacks of magazines from like the nineties that were just

978
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: like that dude was awesome. Thank you Tony publicly. Um.

979
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: But one thing that he also gave me was a

980
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: a VHS copy of um Ship. I forget what like

981
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: the movie was called. It was that Lonnie Waller, No,

982
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: Lonnie Waller is like a very famous you know, uh

983
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: West Coast steel header And he had this one video

984
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: I think it was on the babbying where he was

985
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: catching all sorts of steel and like throwing like waking

986
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: flies for him and picking them up off the surface,

987
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 1: and like that was my introduction. Is steelhead fishing that said,

988
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: not super applicable in uh in the Great Lakes fisheries.

989
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: So one thing that I would be very cognizant of

990
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: is where your steel head information is coming from. If

991
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: you're an East Coast dude and you're taking in a

992
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: bunch of like West Coast media, that's going to kind

993
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: of skew your perspective on steel head fishing, and it

994
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: might give you might be arming yourself with techniques that

995
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: aren't super applicable. Yeah, it also varies quite a bit

996
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: within the East Coast fishery. As an example, like, um,

997
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: the Grand River in Ohio, beautiful river. I've only ever

998
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: fished it once, and I fished it in the fall

999
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: during a road trip, you know, across the Great Lakes

1000
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: to hit all these steel rivers in one shot, and

1001
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: we struggled. We had one really nice fish, but we struggled,

1002
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: and then come to find out later I've had a

1003
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: lot of people tell me, well, actually the Grand fish

1004
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: is better in spring than it does in fall in winter, right,

1005
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 1: But yet thirty miles down the road on the Ashtabulah

1006
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's the it's the complete opposite. So it

1007
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: really can vary, and and it's it's hard to break down. Um,

1008
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: you know a lot of this into specifics. But what

1009
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: I can tell you, whether it's fly or spinning, like

1010
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: one thing I've always been taught. Um, you know, I've

1011
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: always tend to steal head fish in the colder months.

1012
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: And everybody wants to swing, right, even the Great Lakes

1013
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: guys like, oh man, I want to swing one. I

1014
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: want to swing one up, And that doesn't necessarily mean

1015
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: a fly like I know people who target them with

1016
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: inline spinners swinging been with Yeah, sure, exactly right. Um,

1017
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: but that has a very as I've always been told,

1018
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: a very small window, like once that water gets much

1019
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: below like forty degrees, it becomes very hard to get

1020
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: one a true swing. Now, backtrolling is a different story.

1021
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: That's because that's not really swinging, but true swinging across

1022
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: the run, aggressive fish charges over eats lower or fly.

1023
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: There's a very small window. So like, no matter how

1024
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,479
Speaker 1: you're fishing, keep that in mind. It once that water

1025
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 1: gets gets cold, everything now becomes slow and you bounce

1026
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: that ship right off their face. It doesn't matter if

1027
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: it's an egg sac or an egg fly or a nymph,

1028
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: Like it becomes a slower presentation. Yeah, I'd also like

1029
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: pay attention to when you were going after him, because

1030
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: steel head, I've noticed or like a I mean this

1031
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: is a widely held observation, steal it or like a

1032
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: fickle fish man. If you've got like a front coming

1033
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: in or you're in the middle of like a cold

1034
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: snap or something like that, and like the only reason

1035
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: the water isn't frozen is because it's moving. A lot

1036
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: of times that can spell like you know, frustrating day

1037
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: on the water. That said, if you're like trying to

1038
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: pick your spot and you notice that you know the

1039
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: what it's, you're gonna be in a warm spell right,

1040
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: like one of those, Like my favorite steel head fishing

1041
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: is like a mid February warm spell where the water

1042
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: just bumps up two or three degrees and all of

1043
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: a sudden it's on fire. I pay very close attention

1044
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: to that. Now, that's like a conditions based thing, on

1045
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: a technique based thing. Um, I think that you'd be

1046
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: the first thing that I would look at is your

1047
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: weight Uh, the steel I like relate to the bottom heavily,

1048
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: particularly when it's cold, right, which is when most people

1049
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: are fishing for him. Anyhow, a lot of times you're

1050
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: going to run into problems if you are not using

1051
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: enough weight. You really need to like get the fly

1052
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: down there. Forget like the really pretty space cast, forget

1053
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: your snap tea and ship. If you're just trying to

1054
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: catch one man, I would chuck and duck man, I

1055
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: would I would chuck and duck. I always figure if

1056
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: I didn't lose at least ten flies in a session,

1057
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing it right. Yeah, Like it is super common,

1058
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: at least on the Salmon River where I've done most

1059
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: of my steel heading. That's where I've done most of money. Yeah, dude,

1060
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: Like you know the drill. Then it's like if you

1061
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: get if you get ten clean drifts and your ship

1062
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: comes back and you didn't hang up and bust off,

1063
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, must be my birthday, Like like you

1064
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: are constantly breaking off, Like that is all part of it. Yeah.

1065
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: I would also suggest going for um. You know a

1066
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: lot of times in these major Great Lake steelhead fisheries,

1067
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: you'll see people fishing a lot of like super sparkly ship,

1068
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: whether that's like the crystal meth fly or like giant

1069
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: stas eggs. And I personally have never had particularly good

1070
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: luck fishing that way. Most of what I've been fishing

1071
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: is stuff from my trout box, you know, size, you know,

1072
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with fishing the four teen pheasant tail,

1073
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: particularly with like a beadhead. Maybe you want a little

1074
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: like hot spot or like a popa blue on it.

1075
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: I think is like a real popular thing to do.

1076
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: But I tend to like, uh like flies like that. Yeah,

1077
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: I see, I I take a slightly different approach. I don't.

1078
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe I don't give the fish as

1079
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: much credit as you do, especially in the winter when

1080
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: you know their hold up. I just keep changing ship

1081
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: and like it's like, oh they're on pink, Oh they're not.

1082
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: Now I'll just go to yellow. Ope, got another one,

1083
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: Like it's just something different. Um, And that's not necessarily

1084
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't necessarily happen that way all the time.

1085
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: But um, I mean that's the other thing too. Without

1086
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: knowing exactly which river he's fishing and what he's looking for,

1087
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, dude, especially on a weekend, all

1088
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: winter long. You want to know if they're steel heading

1089
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: in particular hole question one, is anybody else fishing it?

1090
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 1: If yes, they're probably steelhead there. So once they get

1091
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: concentrated in the winter, once they're in that winter pattern,

1092
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: it's very common. How many times you have you gone

1093
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: up there and it's like whack, wrack, whack. At first light,

1094
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: it's like a whole and boom gone, just a little

1095
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: sunlight comes up. They didn't go anywhere. They're still right there,

1096
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: but like that was their feed window. So again, this

1097
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: is all this all stuff you learned just by you know,

1098
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: doing it for a long time and pounding a lot

1099
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: of water. Yeah, yeah, And uh. The the other thing

1100
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: that I would, you know, advise our listener to do

1101
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: is don't think of them so much. Is I mean,

1102
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: they are, but like, don't think of him so much

1103
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: as giant rainbow trout and fish them in the same

1104
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: way that you might fish rainbow trout. What I look

1105
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: for is um a lot of like frog water, like

1106
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: where you might expect to find a brown trout, perhaps

1107
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, on on the inside edges of those seams

1108
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: where you have like you know, you have a run

1109
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: coming down and it hits the bank real hard, and

1110
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: you'd be like, Oh, they're gonna be in that like

1111
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: deep cut in this seam on like the far side

1112
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: of that bank. A lot of times that's not where

1113
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: I find him. I find him on the inside of

1114
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: that seam, where like it kind of like eddies out

1115
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: a little bit. And it's a lot of times when

1116
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: you hear as you hear people talking about a walking speed,

1117
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: like if the water is moving at a walking speed,

1118
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: that might be where steel head hangs out. And and

1119
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: I've noticed that that is, uh, that's true. The other thing, um,

1120
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, as far as like reading the water, uh,

1121
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: and like the actual like river condition goes, is what

1122
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: time the year you're fishing for him? Where they One

1123
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: of the most frustrating experiences I ever had was in

1124
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic. I took I took a

1125
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: girlfriend steelhead fishing, and I was just hammering the spots

1126
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: where I'd catch them all winter long and nothing was happening, Like,

1127
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: in fact, we we hooked a couple smell like we're

1128
01:01:54,840 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: not smell um, what the do you call them? Baby fish?

1129
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: Smolt host the fishing podcast Folks One Letter Off, And

1130
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: I was like, what the hell is going on? And

1131
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: I called my guide buddy and he was like, well, dude,

1132
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: have you ever been up here in the spring? I

1133
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I haven't. He was like, well,

1134
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: go to like the gravel. Yeah, and so so I went.

1135
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: I went over to the gravel and we started like

1136
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: hooking a bunch of fishing. It was awesome. So you

1137
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: gotta keep in mind what time of year you're fishing.

1138
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: If you're fishing early in the fall, they're gonna be

1139
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: in those runs behind salmon. If you're fishing in the winter,

1140
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: they're gonna be in that frog water. And if you're

1141
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: fishing in the spring and for dropbacks, they're gonna be

1142
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: on those gravel bars where they're spawning or where they've

1143
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: just spawned. And if that hasn't helped you, join us

1144
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: next week for chapter two. Yeah. Alright, well, uh, king

1145
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: are eleven eighty six. Thank you for sending that question

1146
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: in and I hope that was helpful, although I'm sure

1147
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: you are just more confused. Uh. If you want to

1148
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: if you want to have your question answered on air,

1149
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: or if you want to send a voice memo and

1150
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: hear yourself on air, UH, you can get that to

1151
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: us at Bent at the meat Eator dot com. Or

1152
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: you can maybe slide into Joe or my d M

1153
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: s on the old Instagram. So that's it for this

1154
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: week kind of sort of. Maybe there's a little clue

1155
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: for you. See how many people pick up on that. Anyway,

1156
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: thanks again to Tim More for dropping by. Hopefully I'll

1157
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: see him this winner and uh maybe stick a bigger

1158
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: bourbon than you and talk about it for weeks on end. Yeah,

1159
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: well you won't, man, you won't because uh, you know

1160
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: I do a lot of night fishing. Oh there's another

1161
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: tip for you. Um, I'm calling it out. I'm also

1162
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: calling you guys to keep sending those sale bent items,

1163
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: bar nominations, helpline questions, and awkward photos to Bent at

1164
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: the meat Eator dot com. Yes, please keep doing that,

1165
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: and keep using those degenerate angler and Bent podcast hashtags

1166
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: which try to put eyes on every single one of those.

1167
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: And finally, when you've worn out those docks on the

1168
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: ice or those chucks on the flats, do the right thing.

1169
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: Tie the laces together and throw them over a power line.

1170
01:04:09,840 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: Hipster kids that don't fish need something to photograph. M hm. Alright, folks,

1171
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: if you've if you stuck around this long, we have

1172
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: a little something extra for you. Since we started the

1173
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: bent Helpline. Uh, you know, we've got a ton of

1174
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: great listener questions, so many in fact, that we can't

1175
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: answer them all. So Joe and I decided that we'd

1176
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: make like a little bonus track. Yeah, we've done this

1177
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: before a while ago. We had a bonus sage Lee

1178
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: Wisdom Hidden Track all a tool CD from the nineties,

1179
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: and it seemed to work well. So this is a

1180
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: good idea. Um, and yeah, every now and again, like

1181
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: here and there, we're gonna drop this little segment that

1182
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: we're calling night Fishing after the outro and extend the

1183
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: party just a little longer. So crack a buckskin, sinking

1184
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: to that lawn chair and watch your globe bobbers, because

1185
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: it's time to go night fishing. So listener, Zack Mahollock,

1186
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: that's uh at Zack Underscore maholic on the Instagram wants

1187
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: to know this is a fun one. He says, solo

1188
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: trips can be fun, but how do you get your

1189
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: fishing buddy to stop canceling? Last minute? Boy? I can

1190
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: speak to this one man like it's like the bane

1191
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: of that was like the bane of my early fishing existence.

1192
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: Because the guys I'm sure like you and a lot

1193
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: of like folks listening can relate. We're just into it

1194
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: more than apparently everybody else. Well that's that, and then

1195
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: that is the truth. I gotta tell you, Um, finding

1196
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: fishing buddies with the the full fire that you have

1197
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 1: if you have said fire, it's not always as easy

1198
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: as you think. Like the most hardcore fishing buddies that

1199
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: I have, none of them live close to me, like

1200
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: like they're scattered all over the country, and it's like

1201
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: such a treat to get together. But and this is

1202
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 1: not this is not certainly not shipping on anybody that

1203
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: I fish with regularly. It's just a matter of like

1204
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: you know, family life and stuff like. There's not a

1205
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: lot of other dudes that have the schedule I have

1206
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: where I can sneak out Wednesday morning if I wanted to,

1207
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, and I will push aside all obligations

1208
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: on a weekend to go fish for something. Not everybody

1209
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: can do that. It's just it just is what it is. Um.

1210
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: But this, this, this question certainly resonates with me because

1211
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: I also have some of those people that they are

1212
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: notorious for that and what I what I've essentially used

1213
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: them for. It's like, let's say I'm going somewhere and

1214
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, it'd be fun to drive up that morning

1215
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: with somebody and shoot the ship in the car and

1216
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: grab a sandwich and have some good conversation. So I'll

1217
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: ask that person, but I've already made up my mind

1218
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: that if they bail I'm also totally okay going on

1219
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: the same trip doing the same thing by myself. So

1220
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: it's like a little bonus. I'm like, I'll throw it

1221
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: out to him. Chances are he's going to bail out

1222
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: the night before, but it's not gonna stop me from

1223
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: doing what I want to do. So like, that's not

1224
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: the dude you ask when you want to float eight miles,

1225
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like that's like your battles. Yeah,

1226
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: that's like you're dedicated, you know, mission buddy. I would

1227
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: call them mission buddies, and then I would call them

1228
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: like trip buddies exactly, Like the trip buddy is like

1229
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: inclined to be like yeah, man, well you know I

1230
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: was going to but um, you know, my my buddy,

1231
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: they're going to have like this like party for whatever whatever,

1232
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: and like I so I I don't think I can

1233
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: make it anymore, and I'm always just left like how

1234
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 1: could you man? Already? Yeah, I mean it is that,

1235
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: but it's but it's also like, how could you like

1236
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: to do anything more than this? There is no party

1237
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: that I would attend over. I don't know, like, yeah,

1238
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: you know, over the chance to do this Joe a

1239
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: little bit of nice fish. There's no party. I have

1240
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: missed funerals over the years. Um, there's no there's no

1241
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 1: football game, there's no sports event on the planet zero zero.

1242
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: Ship's going down during the super Bowl. I'm there. I

1243
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 1: love I love fishing like during like big sporting events,

1244
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: because you know that there's gonna be half as much pressure.

1245
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: Hot tip exactly. Anyhow, I would just a just a

1246
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: gun gun anyway. I I would get uh, I would

1247
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: get a new fishing buddy for like missions, man, And

1248
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: I would chalk it up to like, if you want

1249
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: to take friends fishing sometimes, just realize that, like it's

1250
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: going to fall through a lot, man. I don't think

1251
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: there's too much that you can do about it except

1252
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: find folks that are equally dedicated. And in that case,

1253
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: I would invite them to stuff that you already have

1254
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: very well planned. Right, there are two types. There's like

1255
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: the impromptu thing, and then there's like the well planned thing.

1256
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 1: And I would I would invest more energy into trips

1257
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: further out with people you know are going to be

1258
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: down then, like you know, hoping that your fishing buddy

1259
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: shows up. Yeah, yeah, I would totally agree, find new

1260
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: friends or just call that guy when it's a trip

1261
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: that like he would enhance the trip slightly, but not

1262
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: enough to make you cancel. If he can't go there,

1263
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: you go. Okay, So, Zach Malac, thank you for that one. Um. Now,

1264
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: friend of Bent, Nathan clump At Nathan does activities on

1265
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: the old Instant Slam wants to know if we've ever

1266
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: gone noodling. No, no, no, no, that's a that's negative.

1267
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,919
Speaker 1: People have been trying to get me to go noodling

1268
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 1: for years now. I know people that noodle, um, but

1269
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: that is a that is a hard note for me,

1270
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: does not appeal to me at all. Yeah. No, nobody

1271
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: has ever invited me noodling. Although when I was a kid,

1272
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: I had a friend whose dad like mercilessly made fun

1273
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: of me because I thought it was ca noodling catfish

1274
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: and noodle that's a German dumpling, I believe. I think

1275
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: it's uh. I think it's more of a cliquialism for

1276
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:47,600
Speaker 1: love making. But the god, I hate that guy. You know.

1277
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: If that dude's listening, man, you know I hate you. Um.

1278
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess short answer there is no and

1279
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: I have no desire to Joe. It's yeah, yeah, and

1280
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: it's a little bit twofold. Like honestly, I bow fish

1281
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: every once in a while. I think that's fun. But

1282
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: otherwise I've just never gotten eaten up with any methods

1283
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: beyond rotten reel. Like I'm not into spear fishing. Get

1284
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: nothing against it, It's just I'm not into that. So

1285
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 1: on one level, it doesn't appeal to me because I

1286
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: would just rather catch them on a rotten reel. And

1287
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: even though I have some very good friends that are

1288
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: hardcore noodlers that are like, look, man, I've been doing

1289
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: this ship for twenty years. I've never had my hand

1290
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: taken off by a beaver or a snapping turtle. Like

1291
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,520
Speaker 1: that's a myth. It doesn't happen. I'm like, I understand.

1292
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 1: It's like the same odds as dying in a commercial

1293
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: airline crash. But I have that kind of luck, dude,

1294
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: Like if I will commit to it and the first

1295
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: log I stick my hand in, I'll lose like my

1296
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 1: pinky and my ring finger. It is almost guarantee easier

1297
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: thing to do. Just not do that because I'm not

1298
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 1: excited about it anyway. Um, but great question. So sorry

1299
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 1: to all the people who are going to try and

1300
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: convince this the noodle. Now you know that's coming. You

1301
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean? I might be you should do it. Yeah,

1302
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: you should. I was gonna say you should do Just

1303
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 1: just reach out to Hayden. Just don't even bother with me.

1304
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 1: Moving on gauge Atwood, which is an awesome name. At

1305
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: gauge Atwood, He asks, Am I a prick because I

1306
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: hate bait fishing? I YEA great man. I don't get like,

1307
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't get it when people divide themselves into camps

1308
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: like I am just as likely. You know, if somebody

1309
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: hits me up and it's like yo, West branch of

1310
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: the Delaware Drakes are coming off right now, get up here,

1311
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: We're gonna get in the boat, down down, let's do it, man. Um.

1312
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: But if somebody's like yo, let's go like chunk catfish.

1313
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, I I do not understand it when

1314
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: people divide themselves into these like weird camps. Well, and

1315
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: that's that's really what Ben's been all about, right. We

1316
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: invite anglers of all walks of life, all factions here.

1317
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: I'm certainly everybody knows I'm the same way. I'll fish anything.

1318
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 1: I I really don't care. And I could go into

1319
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: a whole tirade about how people look down on bait

1320
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: fishing and if I, if I had more time, I

1321
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 1: could totally say some things that, by the end, I

1322
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,759
Speaker 1: promise would make everybody who thinks bait fishing is simple

1323
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: and easy look at it completely differently. I don't really

1324
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: think we have the time for that. But here's what

1325
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: I'll say. Are you a prick because you hate bait fishing? No,

1326
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 1: you're not a prick because at the end of the day,

1327
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, we always try and preach this message of

1328
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: don't put yourself in a silo, you know what I mean.

1329
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: But hey, dude, if you're a fly guy and that's

1330
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: all you ever want to be, rock and roll man,

1331
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: that's cool and no no love lost. If that's your deal.

1332
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you're a prick, but you

1333
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: are incredibly closed minded, Like you are incredibly closed minded

1334
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: because I don't know how many I can't say this enough,

1335
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: Like people miss all the connective tissue routinely between every

1336
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: kind of fishing. In other words, if you spend time

1337
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: drifting meal worms and garden war for trout and you

1338
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: get good at that, you not have a leg up

1339
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 1: on nymphing and vice versa. There's things you can learn

1340
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 1: from one that translate to another. Watching how a fish

1341
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: attacks a big live shiner under a bobber will teach

1342
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 1: you something about what to do with a swim bait. There's,

1343
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: it's there's, it's all connected, and I don't understand why

1344
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: so few people, I feel like often see that. But

1345
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 1: it only makes you better at whatever. The main passion

1346
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:30,719
Speaker 1: you have is by being open minded and being willing

1347
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: to fish a million different ways. That's my that's my opinion. Yeah,

1348
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: I agree with your wholeheartedly. All right, Um, moving on

1349
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: our buddy, uh Jordan's Derek at Derek the Fancy Caveman

1350
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: wants to know how drunk is too drunk on a

1351
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: guided trip? Oh you first? Um, okay, I happen to

1352
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: know that Joe and I have very different opinions on this.

1353
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: All that's okay, that's okay. These opinions are good, Yeah,

1354
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: sure are. But um, Joe has kind of swayed me

1355
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: to his argument, which we'll get to in a minute.

1356
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 1: But my initial thoughts on it, and I guess, I

1357
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: guess something I'd stand by is it really depends on

1358
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: what you're doing. First off, I want I want to

1359
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: preface this by saying, whatever you're doing, don't put yourself

1360
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: in an unsafe situation. Even if you're on a a

1361
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 1: a a thirty foot you know, party boat in calm seas,

1362
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:33,759
Speaker 1: getting blackout drunk around the water is always a bad idea.

1363
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: It's never a good call, that said. Man. You know,

1364
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 1: if you're say you're at a bachelor party and you

1365
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 1: guys just want to go catch you know, a handful

1366
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: of mahi mahi, there's nothing wrong with throwing back, you know,

1367
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: a couple of coronas or something like that, you know,

1368
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 1: but don't get don't get drunk to the point that

1369
01:15:56,160 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: taking care of you or um part in the pun

1370
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: like reeling you in becomes an activity for the captain,

1371
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 1: the mate, the guide, whatever. I also want to say

1372
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: that there are certain types of trips where I would

1373
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: not suggest drinking at all. Uh. Those include walking wades, uh,

1374
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: drift boat trips. I wouldn't get drunk on bone fish flats.

1375
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have anything to drink in a lot of scenarios. Man,

1376
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,679
Speaker 1: if it's contextually appropriate, dude, have like a couple of beers.

1377
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: But like I would say, don't get drunk to the

1378
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: point that you'd be like above the legal limit, Like

1379
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 1: if you would get pulled over, you might be too

1380
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: drunk to do what you're doing as far as fishing goes, Okay, yeah, man.

1381
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: And and look, I'm not gonna say don't ever don't

1382
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 1: ever have drink when you're fishing. Um because I do.

1383
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 1: It's well, yeah, because because I do. But it's it's

1384
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: certain scenarios, you know, a cold beer on a float

1385
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 1: trip for small mouth or trout drinking, drinking a cold

1386
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 1: beer on the on the on the seventy mile running

1387
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: after tuna, fishing all day awesome. Otherwise And and some

1388
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: people would say this is a very Unamerican opinion. Drinking

1389
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 1: and fishing do not go together for me, like they

1390
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 1: do not go hand in hand like they do for

1391
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: so many people. I've always been of the opinion of, like,

1392
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 1: if what I really want to do is drink and

1393
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 1: get a load on, I'll go to the bar, or

1394
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: I'll have a barbecue at my house. And I especially

1395
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 1: have never been able to figure it out. I've never

1396
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: been able to figure it out. Uh, people who get

1397
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: hammered on charter trips. Now, you in most scenarios you

1398
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: fish like shit, or you don't fish at all because

1399
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: you end up passed out in a bean bag or whatever.

1400
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: Some captain now has to deal with you. And you're

1401
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 1: paying seven eight hundred, twelve hundred dollars to be there, Like,

1402
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: what a freaking waste man. And and here's the thing.

1403
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 1: I know, a lot of captains in all arenas fly offshore,

1404
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 1: you name it. I've never heard one of them say,

1405
01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, it was a really good time taking these

1406
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: guys out yesterday, A and two of them got hammered

1407
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: and we're thrown like that's why most captains, most captains

1408
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: I know, it is like zero hard liquor, no flat,

1409
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: You ain't bringing a bottle. You can bring beers, you

1410
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: can bring some white claws, whatever you're into, but rest assured.

1411
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: I've never met a captain who like just thinks it's

1412
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: funny as ship when you and your boys come out

1413
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: and get hammered. They might not give you a hard time.

1414
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 1: They might have you back they need to make money.

1415
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 1: But when you leave, no, yeah, nobody's like that, was

1416
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 1: that was awesome? No, they want you to catch fish,

1417
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: not get ship faced. Um. So you know, for me,

1418
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: it's like a beer or two and in a laid

1419
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: back summer scenario, I will go to the bar and

1420
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: pound them with you after we fish ice fish. What

1421
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: I don't give a ship I am. I am about

1422
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 1: that man, some chicken wings and a couple of pictures

1423
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: of beers after the fact. But for me, like with

1424
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: my family, my dad, my grandfather, nobody that I ever

1425
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 1: grew up fishing with, was it like a six pack

1426
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 1: goes hand in hand with the cat and and and

1427
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: I find, honestly, man, like I've been doing a bunch

1428
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: of ice fishing lately. And you know, when you're ice fishing,

1429
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: like you have a couple of beers. Typically I find

1430
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 1: um that said, what I really find is myself opening

1431
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: a couple of beers and then not drinking them because

1432
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: I I get like so tuned into like the jigging

1433
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't want to stop jigging to like

1434
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 1: take like a sip of this beer. And then what

1435
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: inevitably happens is I have like most of a beer

1436
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: in a can. I ignore it for an hour and

1437
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: a half. I come back to it, it is now frozen.

1438
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:38,680
Speaker 1: And then so I just pop open another beer and

1439
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: the same thing happens. And now I'm picking up a

1440
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 1: whole bunch of you know, two thirds full beers on

1441
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 1: the ice when I pick up my stuff to like leave. Yeah, similarly, man,

1442
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:54,600
Speaker 1: I I same deal. It's never my beer ever that

1443
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 1: gets drunk on a fishing trip because I don't ever

1444
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 1: bring it. I'm not asking for it, but it is

1445
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: always in in some downtime. So like, you know, you're

1446
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 1: floating the river and dudes like, did its junk water

1447
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: for the next mile? Just chill. By the way, I

1448
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: got two beers in the cooler. You want one? Good? Yeah? Sure, yeah,

1449
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 1: right on, But like I'm not sipping that between work

1450
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: and a rising fisher streamer. You know that's all right? Well,

1451
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 1: hey look let's let's let's move on, man, And I'm

1452
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,719
Speaker 1: going to spring this on you. We've made Jordan Derek.

1453
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: We've made Jordan Derek feel bad enough. Um. Now, I

1454
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 1: didn't put this one in the queue because I thought

1455
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: it would elicit some feelings from you. And if you

1456
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: don't want to do this, we can just cut it

1457
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 1: here and I'll edit everything and make it or Phil

1458
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: will edit everything and make it all smooth. John Maloney

1459
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:49,719
Speaker 1: one wants to know do you consider Great Lakes steel

1460
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: head actually a true steel head? Do you want to

1461
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: open this can of worms? I'll I've opened this can

1462
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: of worms before I'll answer it. Um, I say yes, No,

1463
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: I say no. Well, well I'm more right than you are, Joe,

1464
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: and I'm sure. I'm sure we're gonna get a whole

1465
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: bunch of Listener responds to it. I let's hear your

1466
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 1: argument first. It all depends on your definition. Genetically speaking,

1467
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: Are they genetically the same as a as a West

1468
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:26,520
Speaker 1: Coast salt running steelhead trout? Yes, they are same fish

1469
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 1: on a genetic level. But if if you went back

1470
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: in time to the dictionary or encyclopedia before all this

1471
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: this ship started happening, with all these planner fish all over,

1472
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 1: the definition of a steel head is a rainbow trout

1473
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,759
Speaker 1: that leaves fresh water, goes out, lives, eats, and breathe

1474
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 1: salt water, and comes back. So if that, if you

1475
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 1: are accepting that as the definition of a steelhead trout,

1476
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 1: then by definition, Great Lakes steel head are not true

1477
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 1: steel head. Does it mean they're not awesome? No? Does

1478
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: it mean that they don't fight as hard as West steel? No?

1479
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean all that's happening here right is the lake

1480
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: is the ocean and they run up the trip. So

1481
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 1: it's the same They're doing the same thing. But by definition, no,

1482
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 1: I do not think so. Well. By definition, the new

1483
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 1: Oxford American Dictionary defines a steel head as a rainbow

1484
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:21,599
Speaker 1: trout of a large migratory variety. So, uh, you're wrong

1485
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: the Oxford Dictionary. When was that updated? What years? That

1486
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: is your Oxford Dictionary coming through? Is? I don't know, man,

1487
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: Well see don't say that, and then it may be like, huh,

1488
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: you're wrong. When was it? When was that? Yeah, it's

1489
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: on the internet, the internet. What's the Oxford dictionaries anyhow? Like, okay,

1490
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 1: so to me, man, you know, people defined it by

1491
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: the salt. I define it as migratory tendencies. And it's like,

1492
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: but we would agree that that o g original steel head.

1493
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: Like in the time of Native Americans before any of this,

1494
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: they ran the saltwater or nothing. That was what a

1495
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: steel head was. There was no steel head that didn't

1496
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: run the salt water. Yeah, that's fine, but like you know,

1497
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 1: to that uh, you know, to that end, it's like,

1498
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: do you consider like to me, that would be akin

1499
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 1: to like considering Atlantics or like coconese not salmon. Well,

1500
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 1: there's salmon. In terms of genetics, it's a salmon. It

1501
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 1: it is a salmon. So okay, well, like so wouldn't

1502
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: like a genetic steelhead be a steelhead by that logic,

1503
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 1: I think you can go with either definition. Like I said,

1504
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: genetically speaking that it is a steel head. But you're

1505
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: you're asking. You asked me, and you said, true steel head.

1506
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 1: What's a steel like? Aren't rainbow trout in general just

1507
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 1: landlocked remnants of like steelhead? Isn't that? Actually? I actually don't.

1508
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: I actually don't know that. I don't know. I thought

1509
01:23:54,600 --> 01:24:00,120
Speaker 1: that that's why, um, finding wild rainbow trout only happened

1510
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 1: west of the Continental Divide, And it was that is

1511
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: I believe, And it was because rainbow trout were landlocked steelhead.

1512
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: You know, so so so, but like by that like definition, man,

1513
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 1: I I would consider any large rainbow trout that goes

1514
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 1: out into a large body of water and then returns

1515
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: to spawn a steelhead. And you know, I get why,

1516
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,760
Speaker 1: like people are are are drawing lines, and I think

1517
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with um hatchery sentiment,

1518
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: like like they people don't want manufactured fishery. It's it's manufactured.

1519
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 1: Ye's no way around that. But um, I don't know, man,

1520
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 1: I think that this argument is do you consider the

1521
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: Delaware River to be a large body of water? Yeah, well,

1522
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: well because not not in the not in the same

1523
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: way that I'm talking uh lakes. It's like a moving

1524
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: body water. I think, like that's like I think that's

1525
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 1: like the divider line. It's not like it's not I'm

1526
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: not talking Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about, man.

1527
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about something living in a river and

1528
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 1: then going up to a tributary. I'm talking about a a.

1529
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: I know that the ocean is not a still body

1530
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 1: of water, but like I'm I'm talking about like a

1531
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 1: a you know, a a still tidal body of water.

1532
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 1: I know that the Delawarever is titled okay, but get

1533
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:39,600
Speaker 1: so in the weeds here. But like I have to,

1534
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: I have to throw this out there. You got a

1535
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 1: reservoir out in North Dakota, I don't know where, full

1536
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,839
Speaker 1: of giant rainbow trout. When those fish go to spawn,

1537
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 1: they're looking for a trip. They're gonna circle the edge.

1538
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 1: Some reservoirs will have it, some lakes will have it,

1539
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: some won't. But bye bye, they want to run a

1540
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: trip to spawn. Well, then I was steel ahead. So

1541
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: the question that I would ask you would be what

1542
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 1: was like the um the breeding stock sourced from? Like

1543
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 1: are those rainbows or are they like steel head or

1544
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: or are they like of you know, for instance, like

1545
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 1: the Eel River strain of steel head that was like

1546
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: moved to this area to do this thing. Yeah, I

1547
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,759
Speaker 1: I I don't know. But also, if I'm not mistaken,

1548
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 1: a true steel head does genetically vary from a landlocked

1549
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,799
Speaker 1: rainbow trout. Like, they are features about them that are different.

1550
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 1: Their eyes are shaped differently, their eyes look in different directions.

1551
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: You know what I think that this is. You know what?

1552
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: I think this is pretty analogous to it's um. The

1553
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: conversation around grizzly bears and brown bears. Like what separates

1554
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: those two because like I think, genetically they're identical. The

1555
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: differences that brown bears have um access to marine resources,

1556
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,360
Speaker 1: i e. Like salmon, And that's why brown rs are

1557
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: they considered like a separate like subspecies, because they get

1558
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 1: so much larger because of this marine resource. And I

1559
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 1: think that steelhead it's very much the same thing. It's

1560
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 1: like they have access to these you know, uh feed

1561
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 1: resources that allow them to get bigger, Like you know,

1562
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 1: it's not bugs, it's it's it's ale wives, you know,

1563
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 1: ship like that. And I think when you couple that

1564
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:34,799
Speaker 1: with like the migrating migratory tendencies in this specific way

1565
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: where they go, you know, it's I think it's different

1566
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 1: than the rainbow trout circling the lake. You know. The

1567
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 1: steelhead are out there and they're doing their thing in

1568
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 1: like big open water and then they stage, they they

1569
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,000
Speaker 1: they they stage in these like groups and then they

1570
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: make spawning runs. And I don't think rainbow trout do

1571
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: exactly that same thing even in a lake. Okay, well

1572
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: we have officially cleared it up, then great Legs steel

1573
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: head are in fact steel head I don't ever need

1574
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: to talk about this either. We did. We did work

1575
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 1: here today. We did. We did, man, Joe, I think

1576
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: it's like a really fun news segment. Um. I think

1577
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 1: it's something our listeners are going to appreciate, and you

1578
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 1: know it's it's it really is a nice way to

1579
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 1: unwind after a long marathon podcast recording session with you

1580
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: is just to hang out and shoot the ship a

1581
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,840
Speaker 1: little bit. Totally, totally. Nothing. Nothing helps me on wine

1582
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: from recording podcasts all day, like recording more pots. So

1583
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 1: if you have have questions that you might think are

1584
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 1: a are appropriate for night fishing, or questions that you

1585
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: want to hear on the Bent helpline that might end

1586
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: up here, make sure you send those to me and Joe.

1587
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 1: You can either do it via voice memo or a

1588
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, just a textual written format via our Instagram,

1589
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,599
Speaker 1: or you could send those into Bent at the meat

1590
01:28:55,640 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: Eater dot com