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Speaker 1: The only thing I'm plugging is Forgotten Seasons.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Forgotten Seasons, Julannie. You know, I know

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Speaker 2: we love all of our guests, and we do a

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Speaker 2: lot of these. It's always good chopping it up with

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Speaker 2: a former player. But you know, we love all of

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Speaker 2: our guests, but sometimes when you're in the presence of

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Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer, it just feels a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: I would love it if you could kind of explain

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Speaker 2: to our fans and whoever's listening or watching, who do

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Speaker 2: we have the pleasure and the privilege of speaking to today.

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Speaker 3: Man, It would be my honor. We have none other

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Speaker 3: than mister U two Tap himself, the original crossover, a

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Speaker 3: crossover man, a man of the culture. Can't explain how

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Speaker 3: much he meant the two young basketball players coming up

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Speaker 3: in the early nineties. Hall of Famer, one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite point guards of all time, Tim Hardaway, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the show. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: So today I want to gravitate towards the nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: seven Heat because you know, when we watch the NBA today,

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Speaker 2: you see it on the Heat's jersey. It says Heat

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Speaker 2: culture and I think what a lot of people don't

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Speaker 2: realize is that that Heat culture started with guys like you,

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Speaker 2: guys like pat Riley, guys like Alonzo Morning, and that

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven team was the real boom of the

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Speaker 2: Miami Heat. But before we get there, I think we

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Speaker 2: got to kind of work backwards and understand how you

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Speaker 2: got there and how that team formed. So where I

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Speaker 2: want to start is nineteen eighty nine. When you enter

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Speaker 2: the league. You're the fourteenth overall pick in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety in the nineteen eighty nine draft to the Warriors,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's an interesting time in the league.

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Speaker 2: We hear that Bird and Magic kind of quote unquote

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Speaker 2: save the NBA in the eighties, and then six six

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Speaker 2: expansion franchises are created between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety five. The Heat your future team or one of them.

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Speaker 2: But to me, and I would love to hear what

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Speaker 2: you think it felt like in the eighties, there were still,

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Speaker 2: you know, players flying on commercial flights, and you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe the money wasn't great, and Bird and Magic really

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Speaker 2: laid the groundwork, But it seemed like when you entered

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Speaker 2: the league in the late eighties and into the nineties,

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Speaker 2: the NBA really took off. Your first team run TMC

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Speaker 2: became like a cultural movement beyond just the basketball court.

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Speaker 2: It would be great if you could help us understand

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Speaker 2: and maybe remember back to your earliest days in the NBA,

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Speaker 2: Like what was the state of the league when you

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Speaker 2: arrived and did you feel kind of the growth of

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Speaker 2: the game happening in front of your eyes as you

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Speaker 2: got further along into your career.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm gonna tell you this, Don Nelson

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Speaker 1: he drafted me and I was supposed to go to

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Speaker 1: Indiana in a lottery. I as supposed to go to

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Speaker 1: Boston in a lottery. I could have went to Chicago Bulls,

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Speaker 1: but they picked bj Armstrong. But you know, I would

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Speaker 1: say that when I came into the NBA, it was

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Speaker 1: very humbling. You know, you think it was something else.

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Speaker 1: You thought that, you know, it was all glorified and everything,

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Speaker 1: but it was totally different when you got there. Some teams,

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Speaker 1: some players had to watch their own uniforms. You're taking

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Speaker 1: commercial flights, you waking up at four in the morning,

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Speaker 1: taking at six a m. Commercial flight out. You know,

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Speaker 1: we wasn't fortunate like the LA Lakers. They took back

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Speaker 1: then MGM. They took MGM on flights, say like cross

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Speaker 1: country or back to backs. But if it was in

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Speaker 1: your area, you was taking commercial flight. If they were

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Speaker 1: going to Golden State, they taking commercial flight. If they

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Speaker 1: was going to Sacramento, they was taking commercial flight. If

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Speaker 1: they was going to Phoenix, they was taking commercial flights,

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Speaker 1: except on back to backs. So it was very humbling.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of guys it wasn't about the money,

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Speaker 1: and it was about the prestige of playing in the NBA,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking commercial flights early in the morning at

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Speaker 1: six am, and sometimes sometimes that commercial flight might be canceled,

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Speaker 1: so you had to wait later on in the day

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Speaker 1: and then you had to play that night.

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Speaker 2: Is this when somebody next to you was like smoking

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Speaker 2: a cigarette too, or we passed.

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Speaker 3: That's ps A. It's like PSA airlines. It's close, Dylan, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know, but it's close.

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Speaker 1: Back then, people were smoking cigarettes on the airline, no question,

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Speaker 1: you right about that. I forgot about that. Back then.

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Speaker 1: It was all right. They had ass trays right armress,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you know you you know you might have

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Speaker 1: been smoking us sitting next to a smoker. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was very humbling. And you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: players that you know actually played in the NBA, you know,

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Speaker 1: worked on their craft each and every day. It was

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Speaker 1: professionalism back then. And and another thing back then, if

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Speaker 1: you got hurt, U was on the IR for five games.

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Speaker 1: If you came back, if you was able to come

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Speaker 1: back within those five games, you still had to sit

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Speaker 1: out for five games, no matter.

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Speaker 3: What I forgot about that, you right now, absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: So if I got an ankle spring and I was

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Speaker 1: out for five games, but I come, I could come

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Speaker 1: back game three.

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Speaker 3: Can't do it.

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Speaker 1: You can't do it. You out, You're done?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you speaking of hum humility and humbling. People are

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Speaker 3: working on their game. You're coming into Oakland, California at nineteen,

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Speaker 3: you know, late eighties, early nine. What for you from?

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Speaker 3: You are a shy town representer. You're no stranger to

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Speaker 3: the inner city. And I kind of feel like that's

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Speaker 3: what you brought into the NBA before or Alan Iverson.

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Speaker 3: We'll get into that later, But what is the oak

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Speaker 3: What is Oakland California? Like when you arrived there from

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Speaker 3: U Tap? You go from Chicago to U Tap, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean? And now that now you end

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Speaker 3: up in Oakland your rookie year. Can you give us

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Speaker 3: like just a couple, you know, just a little bit

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Speaker 3: of inside on what Oakland, California was like in nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty nine, early nineties.

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Speaker 1: Oakland, California is like Chicago, Illinois. Drugs, gangs, you know,

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Speaker 1: people just out there walking around at times like zombies,

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Speaker 1: you know, street hustlers. You know. It was just like Chicago.

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Speaker 1: So I knew how to take care of myself. In Oakland.

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Speaker 1: I knew, you know, you could you could tell off

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Speaker 1: the rip, who was who, who didn't want you didn't

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Speaker 1: want to hang out with? Who was bad, who wasn't bad? Oh,

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Speaker 1: he got all the girls, get all the ladies. He

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Speaker 1: knows that just just stuff. It was. It was simpler

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Speaker 1: how to move Yeah, I knew how to move around.

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Speaker 1: You know. When I got there, I was all ready

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Speaker 1: playing against pros when I was in college. When I

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Speaker 1: went back home during the summer, I'm playing against or

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Speaker 1: with Ricky Green, against Maury's cheeks, Doc Rivers, Isaiah Thomas,

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Speaker 1: Michael Jaw and Terry Cummings, Craig Hodges. You know, we

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Speaker 1: had guys, you know, with with with uh, we had

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Speaker 1: pros that didn't make the pros, but knew how to

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Speaker 1: play like pros, you know what I'm saying. And in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: they just took we we When you when you walk

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Speaker 1: out there on that court, you know, it was all business.

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Speaker 1: It was like, look, either I'm gonna bust your ass

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Speaker 1: or you're gonna bust my ass. You know, either you

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Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna go at it, or you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna it's not your date, whatever it is. You know,

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Speaker 1: but you had when you lace them shoes up and

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Speaker 1: you got on that that that that rectangle court or

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Speaker 1: that that court, you got to bring your ship or

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Speaker 1: you're getting embarrassed each and every day. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I brought to Oakland. You know, Oakland was known for

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Speaker 1: their toughness to get the people. Didn't Oakland no basketball.

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Speaker 1: They go all the way back to rig Berry, Al Adams,

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Speaker 1: those type of guys. They know they basketball. You know, well,

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Speaker 1: will Is still Chamberlain, they know they basketball. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Even Bill Russell was there in San Francisco. He played

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Speaker 3: in San Francisco. So yeah, yeah, they very well.

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Speaker 1: So there wasn't if you if you're not out there

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Speaker 1: playing your best, you're gonna get booed and they know,

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Speaker 1: they knew who wasn't given. They all and they all

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Speaker 1: boo you, they and they and they. We were sold

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Speaker 1: out even though we wasn't good my first year, we

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Speaker 1: sold out because they loved the game of basketball. But

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Speaker 1: when we started winning, we were settling down and it

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Speaker 1: was tickets all over the place, and and and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a great atmosphere like it is now with

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Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors or when they was winning championship.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was one of the best atmosphere

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Speaker 1: that you could ever be in.

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Speaker 2: Well, it kind of happens quickly, right, So you said

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Speaker 2: your first year you weren't that good, but this run

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Speaker 2: TMC thing happens very quickly. And by year two, you're

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Speaker 2: upsetting the Spurs in the first round of the playoffs,

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Speaker 2: you're playing the Lakers in the second round of the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to touch on kind of the back

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Speaker 2: end of how that fell apart pretty quickly.

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Speaker 4: But what is that like?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like in the flash of the eye,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're not only in the NBA, but you're

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Speaker 2: part of this like pop culture national movement that transcends basketball.

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Speaker 2: And Jelani and I we're talking before this, like, I

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Speaker 2: don't think I think this was kind of a first

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Speaker 2: of its time thing. You didn't really see like the music,

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Speaker 2: the hip hop music, enter the NBA until run TMC

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Speaker 2: and you're right smack dab in the middle of it

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Speaker 2: as the starting point guard Like, just what is that like?

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Speaker 2: Because it happens it seems like it happened pretty much

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Speaker 2: like overnight.

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Speaker 1: First of all, that was a big mistake. We had

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Speaker 1: run really we have run about. We had run DEMC

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Speaker 1: come out and announce us in front of the Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers, in front of Magic Johnson, oh the player,

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Speaker 1: and then in the ninety ninety one playoffs, so as

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Speaker 1: you know, and then we had you know, they had

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Speaker 1: all the movie stars, we had all the rappers come

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Speaker 1: you know, forty h MC hammer short too short of course,

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Speaker 1: we had all the in vogue. We had all those

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Speaker 1: people come in. And when run DEMC announced us, I

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Speaker 1: kind of looked over there and peeked over there to

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Speaker 1: what Magic was doing, and he had his his guys

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Speaker 1: in a huddle, I mean a deep huddle, and I

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Speaker 1: could imagine. But what what I guess he told me

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Speaker 1: is like they making the mockery out of this. They're

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Speaker 1: not serious about it. Man. He came out there and

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Speaker 1: started whipping that ball around and they started running up

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Speaker 1: and down of court throwing no little past. You saw

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Speaker 1: James Warkon Duncan and Byron's got making shots and Devak rebounded,

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Speaker 1: bringing up past the Magic mag throwing. Back then, it

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Speaker 1: was it was a clinic. It was a clinic, and

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Speaker 1: right then and there we knew it was a big

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Speaker 1: mistake to have that happen in front of the Lakes.

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Speaker 1: If we did in front of San Antonia, we would

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Speaker 1: have been cool. But the Lakers Magic had it that mindset,

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Speaker 1: this is some bs. They're not gonna be doing us

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Speaker 1: like this and thinking that they're gonna win. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the hip hop culture was, I mean, it was booming

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Speaker 1: back then, and I mean we had, you know, in Oakland,

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Speaker 1: they had some live rappers and singers, and and we've

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Speaker 1: seen them all the time, you know, not not only

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Speaker 1: at our games, at the A's games and the Raiders

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Speaker 1: games when the Raiders was there, or even San Francisco

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Speaker 1: forty nine Ers games. So it was live then, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a perfect setup for us.

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Speaker 3: The Bay is at this time. I was born in Oakland.

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Speaker 3: I moved to San Diego in the fourth grade. I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: you just hit it on the head. The A's are cracking.

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Speaker 3: They winning championships. San Francisco's cracking winning championships. Both teams. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. The Raiders are doing the

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Speaker 3: Raider things. So it was it was a championship city, Tim.

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Speaker 3: They weren't playing. It was like a title or nothing.

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Speaker 3: And then I feel like y'all came in with that

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Speaker 3: new culture, new energy as like Dylan said I was

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Speaker 3: talking about, like when I was growing up in Oakland,

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Speaker 3: it was like, you know, Michael Jordan was listening to

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Speaker 3: the Commodores and Earth Wind and Fire. When Tim got

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Speaker 3: into the league, you know, we started seeing too short,

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Speaker 3: we started seeing rappers, we started seeing Dayla. So the music,

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Speaker 3: the Nike commercials, another thing, will get a hotel. But

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Speaker 3: even as far as like inside the NBA and the

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Speaker 3: mob shot, he was leaning into hip hop and the

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Speaker 3: music in and out of the commercials, the hip hop,

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Speaker 3: and then it was like run TMC exactly. And then

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Speaker 3: in the part of run TMC there was you know,

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Speaker 3: missed the rock. He was nice. There was obviously mothery,

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Speaker 3: but you were like the clutch, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: because you not only the skill set and the point guard,

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Speaker 3: but you just brought a different set of of of

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Speaker 3: just vibe coming from Chicago, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I saw on the outside. Confident, there is,

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Speaker 3: there's confidence, you know.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I brought the team confidence. You know

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Speaker 1: when somebody, you know, Chris and Mitch, uh, they didn't

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Speaker 1: talk a lot, you know, but I wasn't gonna let

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Speaker 1: another team get hyped in front of us or start

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Speaker 1: talking to us and chipping us. No, no, no, no, yo, man,

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Speaker 1: We're not We're not taking that, yo, mothery. Let's go. Man,

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Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go forty on him. He cannot stick you, Mitch,

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Speaker 1: take him down low and bang him. You the rock,

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. And that's what I brought to the team.

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Speaker 1: I brought some some liveness to the team. I brought

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Speaker 1: some flavor to the team. I brought some confidence to

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Speaker 1: the team, and they just they just went with it.

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Speaker 1: When somebody started talking stuff, then I started and my

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Speaker 1: team just started right behind like Okay, we're gonna take

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Speaker 1: We're gonna come right behind you and take you take

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Speaker 1: your lead. And you just take us to that next level.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I did once we I came in.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had to cross over a little flavor here,

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Speaker 1: a little flavor of there. You get the you get

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Speaker 1: the crowd in it. Sometimes we had we had visiting

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Speaker 1: crowd on our side too. They wanted to come see

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Speaker 1: us too. They heard about run TMC. Hey, let's see

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Speaker 1: what they got. Every time we stepped out on that floor.

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Speaker 1: We put on the show and we had fun doing it.

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Speaker 1: We had great teammates, you know, Tom Tober, Jim Peterson,

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Speaker 1: Judd Boushler, you know, we had great teammates. Man, and

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Speaker 1: that that at that uh uh, you know that that

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Speaker 1: followed our lead and had fun with us.

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Speaker 4: So it happened.

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Speaker 2: The birth of run TMC happens in the blink of

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Speaker 2: an eye, and then it seems like, you know, it

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Speaker 2: went the other way just as quickly. So you mentioned

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Speaker 2: that Lakers series. You lose in round two, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: They decide to trade Mitch Richmond the following year or

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Speaker 2: at that offseason. The story goes that don Nelson said

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Speaker 2: he felt pressure from ownership or management to maybe go bigger,

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Speaker 2: So they bring in Billy Owens. You guys, have another

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Speaker 2: really good season right after that. But then after that

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Speaker 2: it starts to go downhill.

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Speaker 4: You hurt your knee.

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Speaker 2: The team drafts Chris Weber and gets him number one overall.

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Speaker 2: So now you have Chris Weber, Latrell Spree, Well, Chris Mullen,

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Speaker 2: and Tim Hardaway. But the problem is that Tim Hardaway

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Speaker 2: busted his knee and back. You know, busting your knee

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Speaker 2: in the early nineties is a lot different than busting

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Speaker 2: your knee now, slower process, worst technology. But I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask you, you know, nineteen ninety three, nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 2: you're out for this season, you hurt your knee, and

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Speaker 2: you're watching this new guy, Chris Weber, probably one of

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Speaker 2: the most ready made rookies that entered the league in

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Speaker 2: some time. At that point, just two years before, you know,

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Speaker 2: you were the guy and the city was on fire,

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Speaker 2: run TMC was all over the news, all over the TV,

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Speaker 2: And now you're sort of like sitting from the sidelines

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Speaker 2: watching Chris Weber. And you know, I think it's probably

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Speaker 2: complex because I would think that it's frustrating. Like, imagine

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Speaker 2: if you were on the floor for that season, how

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Speaker 2: far the team could have gone. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: would think that mentally, it isn't the best situation.

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Speaker 4: To be the guy.

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Speaker 2: And then two years later you got to watch your team,

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Speaker 2: you know, play really well without you out there. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it's complex, but I would love to hear just

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Speaker 2: what that time was like for you, because, like I said,

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Speaker 2: blink of and I run TMC is born, blink of,

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Speaker 2: and I it's gone, and you're on the sideline.

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Speaker 4: You're out for a whole year. What was that like?

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Speaker 1: Don Nelson finally came out to see it that he

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Speaker 1: made a mistake by trading Mitch Richmond.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm, he did and.

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Speaker 1: He did. That was the beginning to the end of

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Speaker 1: run TMC, hand and Golden State Warriors at that particular

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Speaker 1: time in that era, you you you have a core

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Speaker 1: there and you fit around your core, all right, you

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Speaker 1: fit around that core. You get some pieces. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you this, Alton Lister came there and he

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Speaker 1: was gonna be our center, but he tours Aca a C.

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Speaker 1: He tours Achilles that year when we started to roll.

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Speaker 1: He came there the ninety ninety ninety one season. He

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Speaker 1: toys Achilles and he never was the same, like a

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Speaker 1: defensive stopper putting the ball in a basket, you know,

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Speaker 1: turn around jump shooter. That changed his whole game. So

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Speaker 1: when when we when we got Billy Owens, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people wasn't feeling Billy Owens.

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Speaker 3: Why not? Because I played with be was it was

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Speaker 3: it his personality or is his game?

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Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. Nothing about his game, nothing about his personality.

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Speaker 1: We had our set core and I said, corps was ten,

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Speaker 1: I'm hard away Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullen, you know, And.

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Speaker 4: It was and it was successful too, Like that was

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Speaker 4: going well and we was.

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Speaker 1: The only thing you had to do was put pieces

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Speaker 1: around us. And we would have made it work if

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Speaker 1: we had a center because we was always short. If

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Speaker 1: we had a center, who knows what we could have

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Speaker 1: done with the Lakers.

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Speaker 4: Well, what about what about Chris Webber?

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Speaker 1: I know, big No, no, no, I'm gonna say that

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Speaker 1: if we if we if we never would have traded Mitch,

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Speaker 1: we never would have been in the Chris Webber yet.

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Speaker 1: So after that happened, we get to uh get to

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Speaker 1: Chris Webbers Sweet sweep Stakes and Chris Weber. Uh we

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Speaker 1: we traded Penny Hardway because we drafted Penny Hardaway. We

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Speaker 1: traded from Swift swap for them, and we get Chris Webber.

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Speaker 1: He was trying to get his contract together. The first

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Speaker 1: day practice they signed. He gets his contract all worked out.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge contract, huge.

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Speaker 3: Monumental.

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Speaker 4: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was back. It started the whole CBA thing. They

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Speaker 3: said too much money.

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Speaker 1: No, no, you know did that? That was big dog facts.

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Speaker 1: He got one hundreds, He got one hundred men, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's what happened. So no, we was so we

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Speaker 1: signed him. I go down with a c l if.

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Speaker 1: I was around, uh him, him and him and him

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Speaker 1: and don Nelson bumped heads they and I was never

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Speaker 1: around because I was trying to get myself together. And

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Speaker 1: Nelly was like, and Chris Smullin was like, Yo, you

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Speaker 1: need to start coming around Chris Webber. He'll probably listen

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Speaker 1: to you. But at that particular time, it was too late.

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Speaker 1: Chris Webber was like, look, I'm not gonna be listening

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Speaker 1: to him. I'm just gonna do my own thing. But

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Speaker 1: what But what don Nelson was trying to help Chris

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Speaker 1: Webber realize is that you could be that type of

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Speaker 1: ball player right now that you was in Sacramental. You

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Speaker 1: can handle the ball, you could be pointing forward, you

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Speaker 1: can start the offense. We could hit you at the elbow,

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Speaker 1: you could pay. We want to use your strengths. And

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Speaker 1: that's what Nelly saw. He saw his strengths as a rookie.

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Speaker 1: He didn't like that. He wanted to get the ball down, low,

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Speaker 1: bag people in and do other things. But Don Nelson

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Speaker 1: saw his strengths what he could do, like he was

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Speaker 1: doing the Sacramento So they was bumping heads and everything.

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Speaker 1: But if I was there, I would I could have

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Speaker 1: settled Chris Webber and made him understand love, just how

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Speaker 1: we want you to play this, how we need you

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Speaker 1: to play if all of us is going to be successful,

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Speaker 1: you know. And just like they did in Sacramento with

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Speaker 1: Jason Williams, with their whole crew, Chris, you know, Lottie

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Speaker 1: di Va, you know, just playing. We could have played

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Speaker 1: that same style his rookie year if I wasn't hurt.

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Speaker 1: But I was hurt, and they bumped heads and then

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Speaker 1: we uh and then that's when Nelly uh uh got

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Speaker 1: let go. And then we traded Chris Webbers somewhere to Washington,

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Speaker 1: and then that's when everything but we had Chris Gallen,

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Speaker 1: we had Big Alexander. We still we still had a

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Speaker 1: good crew, but our nucleus wasn't together again.

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Speaker 4: How about Latrell Spreewell, what was that component of it?

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Speaker 1: Like Latrell Spreewell came in, needed to needed to work

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Speaker 1: on his ball handling skills. He could shoot the ball

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Speaker 1: a little bit, need to work on that. But you know,

394
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Speaker 1: each and every year we knew he could play defense.

395
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Speaker 1: He was always in the pass lane, always quick Alabama

396
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Speaker 1: type of player, played defense in the passing lane. But

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Speaker 1: he worked on this game, and each year he came back,

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Speaker 1: you saw a different Latreil street wheel. You saw a

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Speaker 1: stronger Littrail spreewheel. You saw a more confident Latreill spree wheel.

400
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: You saw a s free wheel that that is jump shot.

401
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: He was very sure of his jump shot.

402
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Speaker 3: A spreada would go left sometimes.

403
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Speaker 1: Sometimes that would go left sometimes.

404
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 3: Sometimes and go left.

405
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Speaker 1: But you know, you just saw his game started to

406
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Speaker 1: flourish and that really helped his game and our game.

407
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: And but you know, we still need the pieces around us.

408
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: And it never happened. So it was tough, and I

409
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Speaker 1: you know a lot, you know, I know you want

410
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Speaker 1: to ask me a question, I won't get into it.

411
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Speaker 1: I saw a chance to go to Miami Heat ninety six.

412
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Speaker 1: That when the trade right before the ninety five tread

413
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Speaker 1: day line deadline in February. I had a chance, I

414
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Speaker 1: told I told Alonzo morning when we played them in Miami. Yo, man,

415
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Speaker 1: I said, look, I get you out to the playoffs.

416
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Speaker 1: Then they came to Oakland and I said, look, man,

417
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Speaker 1: I tell them the trade for me. I get you

418
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Speaker 1: to the playoffs. I knew what I could do. Okay,

419
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Speaker 1: I was coming off the bench at the particular time

420
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: the team was going a different way. Uh. A lot

421
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Speaker 1: of people thought I was finished, and.

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Speaker 4: I had I was gonna say that.

423
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Speaker 2: I remember that because Adaman comes in and you're coming

424
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Speaker 2: off the bench and it's crazy.

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Speaker 4: I mean, and you're are you hearing all of that?

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Speaker 4: I mean, Tim Hardaway's best days are behind him. Of

427
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Speaker 4: course you.

428
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: Say you don't hear, Yeah, you hear. You read it

429
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: and it's all all over the place. But I knew that.

430
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: I believed in myself. I knew what I could do.

431
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: The only thing I had to do was go to

432
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: a different team. You know, just like you know, I'm

433
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: just gonna say, you know, uh, Klay Thompson, if you

434
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: know you might have a different need to get different scenery,

435
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, it helps, it helps, and I need a

436
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: different scenery. And you know they said that, you know,

437
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: pat rally helped me with my career. I think we

438
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: helped each other with our careers because his was if

439
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: he didn't make the playoffs in Miami that particular year,

440
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: it was going to be doubters.

441
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: So let's perfect good you say that, because I want

442
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: to set up the beginning of pat Riley's Heat tenure.

443
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 2: It's going to come back to this nixt Heat rivalry

444
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: that we'll talk about a little bit later.

445
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 4: But we have to understand, right.

446
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: So the Heat and Expansion team, they joined the league

447
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: in the late eighties, and for the first six or

448
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: seven years of their existence, they weren't any good. They

449
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: squeaked into the playoffs a couple times. And Mickey Arrison,

450
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: who owns the Heat right now, he buys the team

451
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five, so the year before you get there,

452
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: and he makes it pretty clear early that he wants

453
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: to run the show differently. He's the founder of the

454
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: Carnival cruise line. He's going to start spend money and

455
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: where does he start? He looks at pat Riley. He says,

456
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,479
Speaker 2: I need a guy to run the team. Pat Riley's

457
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 2: still with the Knicks. He's trying to figure out his

458
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: extension there. Pat Riley's asking for things like ownership of

459
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 2: the team ten year deal, and the Knicks owner at

460
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: the time says, you know, we like what you've done here,

461
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: You've turned around the franchise, but I'm not going to

462
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: give you ownership.

463
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 4: So what does pat Riley do?

464
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 2: He gets connected to Mickey Rison and he lays out

465
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: those same set of demands, and pat Riley asks for

466
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: ten percent ownership of the Heat. Now another ten percent

467
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: of ownership paid out over time. He asked for fifty

468
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 2: million dollars. He has the Heat to buy out his

469
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: homes in New York and LA. He asks for a

470
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 2: limo service for games. He asks for a three hundred

471
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: dollars per diem. And one thing that I can't find

472
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: the answer to Tim Hardaway, And I don't know if

473
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: this is culture, if this is if this is heat

474
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 2: culture G fourteen classification, if you're sworn, But I mean

475
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: the story is that pat Riley got twenty percent of

476
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: the Heat when he joined the team in nineteen ninety five.

477
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: The Heat today are worth four billion dollars. We know

478
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: that pat Riley is one of the greatest coaches of

479
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: all time. We know that he's one of the best

480
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: basketball minds of all time. But does pat Riley also

481
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: own twenty percent of the Heat and maybe be sitting

482
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 2: on four to five hundred million dollars right now?

483
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: Don't know about that, but I wouldn't put it past. Okay,

484
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't know specifically, but I wouldn't put it past

485
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: in great business mind, not only a great business mind,

486
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: great basketball mind on coaching side, and GM and president's side.

487
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, let me let me, let me get to that.

488
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: So Mickey Arrison, first of all, his dad owned the team. Okay,

489
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know that his dad owned

490
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: the team. Okay, he had the biggest piece of the team.

491
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: Mickey Harrison came in and bought out everybody else. So

492
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: including his dad, say no, it was him and his

493
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: dad's team. Okay. So it's Mickey and his dad's team.

494
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: So he comes in, his dad is older. His dad said,

495
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: you take over it. I don't care what you do,

496
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: just go ahead and take over it. He goes in

497
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: there and he goes and he tells general not general management,

498
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: the owners, some of the owners that had two percent here,

499
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: five percent here. So if you put in a million dollars,

500
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you four million dollars. Bye bye, that's it.

501
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: Don't come back to me, that's all. So that's what

502
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: he did with everybody. It was about ten of them,

503
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: and he went to each of them and gave them

504
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: more money than what they deserved. But this is it.

505
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: You can't no tickets, no nothing, You have nothing to

506
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: do with the Miami. He ever again, and they understood that. Okay,

507
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: he went to Pat and Pat probably made all those offers,

508
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: but he didn't get three hundred dollars a day. He

509
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: got five hundred dollars a day them. So we went.

510
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: You know, his demands was the maan. But you know what,

511
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: you got to believe in somebody, you know, as an owner,

512
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: you have to believe in somebody, you know, just like

513
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: Robert Kraft. He believed in Belichick and for twenty four

514
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: years he ran a class A organization, just like pat

515
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Rally is doing now. So he made the right investment.

516
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: He made the right investment. Pat Rally you know, you're

517
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: always gonna make some deals here, deals there that's not

518
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: gonna pan out. But in the long run, it did

519
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: pan out. Him trading for me, Walt Williams, Corbin my man,

520
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: I forget my man name, he Chris Gatin. That was

521
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: the right trade at that particular time. And we was

522
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: when we got there. We had to make up fifteen

523
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: to seven in team games just to get in the playoffs.

524
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: Yep, you know.

525
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: And it was guys that came there that believed in

526
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: themselves and they needed another scenery. You know, all of

527
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: us needed another scenery. We got to another scenery and

528
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: we went and played basketball. We didn't care about practice.

529
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: We just wanted to play basketball and be relevant. Again.

530
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: How were the practice is to you know?

531
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: But let me tell you this. If you're a basketball player,

532
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you just going there and practice. It is

533
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: what it is, is what it is, what you come

534
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: here for, right, what you're come here for. I asked

535
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: around and said why we practiced for two and a

536
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: half hours? He said, how long is the game? I said, okay,

537
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: I didn't say nothing else. I didn't say nothing else.

538
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: But you know what, sometimes we didn't need to practice.

539
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes he could have took it, you know, easy on

540
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: us in practice. Uh, but I see why we practiced

541
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: because last two minutes, last three minutes of the basketball

542
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: game we had we had more gas when everybody's on empty.

543
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't trade none

544
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: of that, all that experience in Miami. I wouldn't trade

545
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: that for the world. I had a great time. Pat

546
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 1: Rally had his great mind. He understands basketball inside. Now

547
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: he talked Eric Spostra that had just got a great deal.

548
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: God bless him. He worked hard for it, and he's

549
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: he deserved all that money that he's getting right now.

550
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: He was my film guy.

551
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: I was about to ask, was he in the film

552
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: room when you were there?

553
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 1: I used to go down there and visit him, and uh,

554
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: but man, there used to be his running mate. I

555
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: forget his names of mine, but but yet they wasdale.

556
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: They used to be in the dungeon and I used

557
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: to be down there and I just go down there

558
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: and talk to him. Man, it was a room. It

559
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: wasn't no bigger than your closet, yea. All that's just

560
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: just just just TVs. And it was hot. It's hell

561
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: in there, hot as hell. And I'm telling you, man,

562
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: I walk out. We used to have to open the

563
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: door so I could just stand there and talk to

564
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: him so I wouldn't get hot and sweating in there.

565
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know that. You know, he learned from Pat.

566
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: He understood that it was going to be a change.

567
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: Eric sposure did and he went on the bench, groomed

568
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: d Wade to where d Ray is now Hall of Fame.

569
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: And that was because of air exposure.

570
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

571
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 4: It's a chain.

572
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: I mean it starts with Riley, then it goes to Spolstra,

573
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: then it goes the way. Then now it goes to

574
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler.

575
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: Yes, but let me let me tell you this, getting

576
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: back to the heat culture. All right, everybody think he

577
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: coaches started with you Donna's has love you, Donas Haslam

578
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: love d Wade and all that. The culture heat culture

579
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: started in nineteen ninety five, ninety six when he got there,

580
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: all right, It started with one guy. And I tell

581
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: you this, It wasn't Alonzo Morning, it wasn't Tim Hardaway.

582
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: It was Keith Askins. Keith, as a lot of people

583
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: don't know, Keith Askins was one of the guys that

584
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: got drafted when they first built the team, all right,

585
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: and Pat Rowley liked how he goes about his business

586
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: at practice every day. It's his type of culture, all right.

587
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: Everybody think it's Alonzo Morning. No, everybody think it's Tim Hardaway, PJ. Brown. No,

588
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: it's Keith Askings. And I say that all day long.

589
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna tell you this what he what he

590
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: brought to that team, his tutelage, his professionalism each and

591
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: every day. His jersey should be in the rafters because

592
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: he's been there since day one one.

593
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 4: Is he still with it? Is he still with the

594
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 4: team to that team come.

595
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: And he doesn't get enough credit. He doesn't get enough say,

596
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: But it started with him, how he carried on each

597
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: and every day, practice hard each and every day. Talk

598
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: to us say hey man, you know we're not going

599
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: hard enough. We're not doing what we need to do

600
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: to be a championship team. So we need to practice

601
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: a little bit harder. He was, He was a small voice,

602
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: but his voice carried So, yeah, eat culture is Keith Askings.

603
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: And then if you know Zoe myself and the PG

604
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: and it goes down. But it started in ninety five ninety.

605
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: Six with him, and then everybody else fell in line.

606
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: Everybody else fell in line.

607
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: So we got to get into the nineteen ninety seven seasons.

608
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: So you mentioned you get traded there ninety five ninety six,

609
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 2: You guys are like four or five games under five hundred.

610
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: You end up plus two in the win column. You

611
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: make the playoffs in pat Riley's first year. Then that

612
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: summer it's I think pat Riley releases like half the team,

613
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: and it seems like he pretty much starts from scratch.

614
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 4: He gets guys like PJ.

615
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: Brown, He gets guys like Bruce Bowen, Dan Marley in

616
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six.

617
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: You know, Sean Lennon. Then we traded for mash Burn.

618
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, it goes on and on and on.

619
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 3: We had pieces. He talked about it earlier, getting pieces

620
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: around your core group. Now now you're getting an opportunity.

621
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: It feels like to get some pieces around you. You

622
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: got your core group, a new identity down there in

623
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: Miami with a nucleus who seems like they want to

624
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 3: just be about hard work. Keith Asking sounds like he

625
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 3: don't want to tire of losing, you know what I mean.

626
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 3: But he shows up every day. He knows he got

627
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 3: some pieces, and then Pat's mastermind is putting the pieces

628
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 3: around the core thing, which leads to success at the

629
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: end of the day. From what I remember, Yeah.

630
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: Sixty one wins by far the best season in Heat

631
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 2: history at that point. And I mean we talk about

632
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it's no secret that a lot of teams

633
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 2: just fell victim to the Chicago Bulls of the world

634
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: in the nineties, the Celtics in the eighties, the Lakers

635
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: of the eighties. But I mean this roster was stacked.

636
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: You mentioned a guy like Jamal Mashburn. I would love

637
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: to start there, because you're already rolling. I think you're

638
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: by the time you trade for him, you're what like

639
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: forty and fifteen amazing team.

640
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 4: So I want to talk about Jamal Mashburn.

641
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: He gets added to the team at the trade deadline

642
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: of the nineteen ninety seven season, and we talk about

643
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: Jamal Mashburn a lot hell of a player. I love

644
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: hearing about his game because I think he's kind of

645
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: a universally underrated player.

646
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: He is.

647
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: But we talked to Steven Jackson the other week and

648
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: he said Jamal Mashburn was a guy that retired early

649
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: because he knew that his success, uh in the NBA

650
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: was just the beginning. Today, he's definitely one of the

651
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: best entrepreneurs, businessmen, former athletes out there. What was Jamal

652
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: Mashburn like as a player, And at that time, did

653
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: you know that this guy was already kind of like

654
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: surveying the field and thinking about who he was going

655
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: to be after basketball?

656
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: Yes, we did. You can hear him talk about stuff

657
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: in a paper, you know, in magazines. You can hear

658
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: him saying, you know, being on al and watching all

659
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: these businessmen and all these entrepreneurs on the ale where

660
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: he's used to go to school at how he wanted

661
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: to whenever he gets into the NBA, because he knew

662
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: he was going to NBA, you know, nice right whenever

663
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: he gets whenever he gets in the NBA. This is

664
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: what he wanted to do and how he wanted to

665
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: do it. So you know, you knew that he was

666
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: doing stuff when he came to us. He had a

667
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: car dealership in Kentucky, you know, and yeah, yeah he

668
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: was getting it then. So so we knew about his

669
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: off the court, uh, expertise and business and but on

670
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: the court, you know, he came in, he worked hard,

671
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: he did what he's supposed to do. At one particular time,

672
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: we put him in a peculiar situation where I was

673
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: hurt and another point guard was hurt and he had

674
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: to play point guard. That was kind of tough on him.

675
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: That took a way away from his game a lot.

676
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: But he went out there and he did what he's

677
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: supposed to do. Brought the ball up like a Scottie

678
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: Pippen would do. But at that, you know, he didn't

679
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: want to do that. He wanted to catch on the

680
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: wing do his thing. And but you know, you had

681
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: we had myself, we had we had different type of

682
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: offenses that you know that wouldn't let him get his going.

683
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: That thing got to go in there. In the nineties

684
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: team at least need to go in there one time

685
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 3: and then dog kicking out and then you do what

686
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: you need to do.

687
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: But then he was a guy that you had to

688
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: go to him multiple times and let him do his

689
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: ice so and let him do his thing and get

690
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: in the rhythm. That wasn't pat rally that that wasn't

691
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: pay you know, but but but but but what he

692
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: did for us was great, and you know, and I

693
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: commend him when he went to Charlotte. You could tell

694
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: that he went to the All Star Game. You know,

695
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: he was he was the guy he went. You know,

696
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: he was doing his thing and he was unstopping. And

697
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: then we played him in the playoffs. We couldn't stop him.

698
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: You know, we cause maybe some of that, maybe some

699
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 3: of that development that he had with you guys, led

700
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 3: to the six says that he had in Charlotte, because

701
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: now he's more comfortable handling the ball, bring it up.

702
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: He did since Kentucky. He was one of my favorite

703
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 3: players of all time.

704
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: So I agree, we just didn't do him right, that's all.

705
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: You know, we we we didn't we with his skill

706
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: set what he was doing in Dallas and in Charlotte,

707
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to do that because that wasn't going

708
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: to beat what pat Rowley wanted. You know, it's a

709
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: movement moving with out the ball, coming around screens, set

710
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: the screens coming off this. No, he wanted to get

711
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: it jab step, you know, take his time and stuff

712
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: like that. You know, at times we did it, but

713
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: you know you could tell that that wasn't patch for take.

714
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you gotta come down off this floppy. We're

715
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 3: gonna let you gonna do that, but you're gonna come

716
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: off this sloppy and this cross screen and then you

717
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: can get to that jab series you want to do. Right,

718
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: That's what's gonna happen with Ryle.

719
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: That's why we had to get That's how come I

720
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: had to get it down to the core fast because

721
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: that takes a few minutes. It does off the twenty

722
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: four second shot clock. But you know, but you know,

723
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: Sean Leonard, you know, and Dann Marley, you know, our

724
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: team was built to win a championship, but we played

725
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: against the Knicks. It was personal because the whole city.

726
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: Before we get to the next because that deserves a

727
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: pause before that. You play the magic in the first

728
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: round and there's a guy that shares your last name.

729
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: This was probably one of the last years before unfortunately

730
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 2: injuries started to hamper him.

731
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: Shack is gone.

732
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: He's probably able to do whatever he wants. And I'm

733
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 2: sure for you, as what a six to one guard,

734
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: you might be looking around like there's guys now like

735
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: him that are playing my position and can do some of.

736
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 4: The things that I can do.

737
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 2: But they have very athletic six foot six and very athletic. Yeah,

738
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: just talk to us about Hardaway and what you remember

739
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: from that series.

740
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: So we let when he traded Mitch Richmond, I'm like, damn,

741
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: we get Penny Hardaway. I'm looking at Penny at Memphis.

742
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, Okay, we're gonna be We're gonna be rolling.

743
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: We're gonna be rolling. I get throw to him, let

744
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: him do all this ship and all this and that that.

745
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: Oh man.

746
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: And then yeah, and.

747
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: Then he said no, we're gonna trade and get Chris.

748
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: Webers like, okay, that's cool too. You know, I'm not

749
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: it's not bad either. You know we're gonna we're gonna

750
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: be rolling in. But yeah, we get We played them

751
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: in the first round, Miami Heat and Orlando. So we

752
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: go up what two oh and not was yeah two oh?

753
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: Then we go up there we win game three. Man,

754
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened,

755
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: but oh my god, he turned into another person and

756
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: we couldn't stop him. He was making everything, I mean,

757
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: turn around, jump shots, step bags, the.

758
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: Quarter, turned step back inside with the fun with thetyle inside.

759
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know what happened,

760
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:23,479
Speaker 1: but yeah, we couldn't stop him. And fortunately, fortunately Game five,

761
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: Uh we won you know that? That that that you

762
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: know that because that was the first round, best three

763
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: out of five. So yeah, we won the first two

764
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: and then they wanted for the next two. But yeah,

765
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: we uh fortunately won game five and went to that

766
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: next uh series. But man, I'm gonna tell you this,

767
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm happy for Penny well deserved. He's going to get

768
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame uh this year. And if

769
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: he did not get hurt, oh, like he said, we'll

770
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: be talking about him and Michael getting m v P

771
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: s of who the scoring leader this and that because

772
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: he was just that could.

773
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: Run.

774
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: TMC was a movement. But could you imagine if we

775
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: had the Hardaway brothers.

776
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: As well, we would have been here for it. In

777
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: the town, we would have been here for it.

778
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: So the Knicks series, you started to talk about it,

779
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: but I think it's important to understand that, uh, that

780
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: was pat Riley's former team. The Knicks actually sued the

781
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: Heat for talking to pat Riley while he was under contract.

782
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: That yeah, come on, bring us. So the series starts

783
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: one one, bring us into the plane ride and the

784
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 2: bus ride to Madison Square Garden, pat Riley's locker room,

785
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: speech going into game three, the series is not a

786
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: up one a piece here in New York, Like, there's

787
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: a lot of animosity there. I don't think anyone probably

788
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: could have imagined, could have imagined like what that would

789
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: have turned into four straight years playing each other in

790
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: the playoffs. I don't even know how many fights, but

791
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: it's hard to keep track of it because there were

792
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: so many.

793
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 4: But what do you remember just from that?

794
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: Like going into New York for Game three, you're playing

795
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: in the garden and you know your your coach is

796
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of his old friends. Like, paint that

797
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: picture as best as you can for us.

798
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: It's funny. I I'm at Nike Town, okay, and employee

799
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: just started going off on me, and my dad is

800
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: with me. We just walking around Nike Town and my

801
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: dad was like, Yo, do you want me to get

802
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: him right? I said no, Dad, he's a fan in

803
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: this and that. He was like, uh, he getting on

804
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: my motherfucking nerves. It's like, yeah, let's keep walker, let's

805
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: keep walking. My Dad's like we're gonna have to talk.

806
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna you're gonna say someone, I'm gonna say some

807
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: It's like, all right, So I got to manage it.

808
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: This dude was going on if y'all y'all ain't shd

809
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 1: this and that, blah blah, this blah blah that man,

810
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: y'all and and they had to escort him out of

811
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: Nike Town. And I'm like, wow, he is really serious

812
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: about this series. And it started there. Then we you know,

813
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: we get into the hotel. You hear grumlins. You know,

814
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: you hear people looking at us, you know, like point

815
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: at us and stuff like that. But yeah, we get

816
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: to the guard. It's who you're talking about an atmosphere

817
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: desk nasty. Oh my god, I didn't know things to

818
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: be said to ballplayers that they was talking saying us

819
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: talking about guys. You know, you talk about guys, uh,

820
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: them guys wouldn't be the stuff we heard the guys

821
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: that they couldn't take that. We just played through it.

822
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: We just played through it, okay. But Pat Rawley told

823
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: us do it right before that. He said, Man, it's

824
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: gonna be crazy out here. It's like got this got

825
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: them city. If y'all ever seen Batman, It's like, godam city,

826
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: this is where it's gonna be. It's gonna be real nasty, grimy.

827
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: You gotta come out here and fight. Fight, fight, fight fight.

828
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: That's the way it's going to be. You gotta put it.

829
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's gonna be like a street fight.

830
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: And that's the way it was. That whole series was

831
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: like a street fight because of pat Rally lead. It

832
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: didn't have nothing to do with us. It didn't have

833
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: nothing to do with Alonzo, Keith Askings, Tim Hardaway, p

834
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: J Brown, like Aston, none of us. Everything had to

835
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: do with pat Rally, Mickey Erison. But we took it

836
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 1: when out there and played. We took his identity and

837
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: went out there and played, and that's what we're supposed

838
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: to do.

839
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: I was gonna mention that there are some legendary stories

840
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: you hear about the league, about roles in this pregame

841
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: or post game speeches, or if you have a comeback victory,

842
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 3: or you win games as you're not supposed to. I

843
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 3: know he's been pretty intense. I've heard players tell me

844
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: he dunked his head in a do you I was

845
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: gonna ask you, what are you on that team? When

846
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 3: that was his thing till the last breath? Until the

847
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 3: last breath remarked.

848
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: He didn't know the water was that cold.

849
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.

850
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: So it was ice water, and so he put his

851
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: head in there. He came up, he gassed, but he

852
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: kept going. He was a troop. He kept going, kept talking,

853
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: but his face just got red. And he ended this

854
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: speech or whatever and then went back to his uh

855
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: the coaches room, and the trainer was right behind him.

856
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: He was like, how you doing wrong? He said, yeah,

857
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: he had to get himself together all right now.

858
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: I love it, though not too many coaches put themselves

859
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: in a vulnerable position like that to motivate men talking

860
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: that warrior got them city. We're gonna go out here

861
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 3: and do that. But if you now, if I can't

862
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: see that visually from you, it may may may or

863
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 3: may not hit. That's a fifty to fifty. But if

864
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: you're going through that, you're like, all right, I'm.

865
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: Rolling another one. It was a top on the ice thing,

866
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, the water, but the gator raye. He didn't

867
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: know it was ice and water any and he was

868
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: real mad at us, and he picked it up and

869
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: stumbled and through it. He didn't know that it was walking.

870
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: He was like, oh ship, oh he just doing it.

871
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: We're just like all right, even though He was mad

872
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: at me, like, are you all right? You know you

873
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: got you gotta talk to some people before you do

874
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: some stuff because you're not twelve or you're not twenty,

875
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, you know so so it was I mean,

876
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: but you know, getting up for games, his motivational speeches

877
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: and everything, I was different. You know. I was always uh,

878
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm from Chicago. Ready, I'm already. I'm always ready. I

879
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: ain't need no motivational speech. I want to go out

880
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: there and kick your ass. I want to go out

881
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: there and fuck you up. I want to get my

882
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: teammates ready. But I will tell you this. With them speeches,

883
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: it even got be more hyped, even like I'm like, yeah, yo,

884
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: let's go do this.

885
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: You know, those speeches in an atmosphere like New York

886
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 3: walking into Madison Square Garden with the dude they hate

887
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: the most of the time, and you already ready. I can't.

888
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: I would. You know, I didn't have the luxury. I

889
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 3: wasn't the starter of a Hall of Famer, but I'd

890
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 3: have been so geeked up I'd have got two three

891
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 3: fouls like right away.

892
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: You know that's what you had to do. You had

893
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: to you had to calm yourself down. You know, you

894
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: had to calm yourself down. You can't go in there

895
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: and you get two or three foules on you, then

896
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: you you're messing up the chemistry of the team. We

897
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: need you to go out there and do what you do.

898
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, you just can't go out there and just

899
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: be gunk hold and just mess up everything. We need

900
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: you to calm down. Lot some shots here, you know,

901
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: take a charge in there, you know, shoot your shots

902
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: and do what you supposed to do.

903
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 3: See, that's why you need veterans like Tim Hardaway, you

904
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 3: know what I mean. It's very important as a young player.

905
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: To let me tell y'all who haven't had the fortun

906
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 3: enough to play in the NBA, veterans are everything. If

907
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 3: I would have had a Tim Hardaway in a locker

908
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 3: room to stop me from doing the young player thing,

909
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: They're like, we don't need all that, We just need

910
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: to do a B and see and plus your ass

911
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: is young anyway, So get in line, you know what

912
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 3: I mean. So I don't know, we digress. I want

913
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: to get back to the New York Miami matchup. But

914
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 3: that's why veterans and ogs are so important. A young

915
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: player's career because they bring a pointed perspective that's almost inarguable,

916
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 3: and it just frees your mind of other shit you

917
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about because you get in game

918
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 3: from Tim Hardaway, who you've probably watched on a commercial.

919
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 3: He had his poster up, so I want to go.

920
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: We can go back into the Miami North. But I

921
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 3: just want fans to know that. That's why we always

922
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: talk about how important veterans is on the locker room.

923
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: He talked about Keith Askins earlier. You know what I mean,

924
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 3: what he would have been able to do to see

925
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 3: web for sea web if he was able you know

926
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 3: around and now we're seeing you know what I mean?

927
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 3: How just In and I ain't never played with Tim Hardaway,

928
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 3: but he could immediately. Hey you need the block shots,

929
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 3: says screen take a charge, go sit your ask now

930
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 3: repeat and that's all you That's all you need sometimes.

931
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: But I'll let you get back into it.

932
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: YO.

933
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: No, that was great, and I think it's I mean

934
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 2: a lot of basketball commentary today they just talk about

935
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 2: the on core fit and you know, the plus minus.

936
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: But I think the stuff that you hear about who's

937
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 2: talking to who in the locker room. What are you

938
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: doing off the court? I would think that that stuff

939
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 2: is equally, if not more important than than all the encore.

940
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, get back to Nick. But I'm gonna say this,

941
00:51:54,560 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: analytics has fucked up the game. M Okay, you're talking

942
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: about plus minus. If you go back and look at

943
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: Jordan's plus minus, you go back and look at Magic

944
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 1: plus minus, Larry Bird's plus minus. I guarantee they plus minuses.

945
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: Wasn't like everybody want them to be. I tell you this,

946
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: but they was winners. They was winners, all right. They

947
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: was champions. And Michael will tell you this, Fuck all

948
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: that analytics shit when he was playing. What counts is

949
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 1: w's in Al's And at the end of the season,

950
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: who wins a championship? Who holding up that trophy? Guarantee

951
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: you that. But they go don't do what they're supposed

952
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: to do, you know. But it's about playing the game, right.

953
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: But I see people, you got a shot right here

954
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: at the free throw line. You're gonna step back three shots,

955
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: three steps to shooter three. That's not basketball, man, that's

956
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: not basketball. So yeah, but go ahead.

957
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: I think it tells a part of the story, but

958
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a fraction back to the

959
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 2: Knicks Heat. Uh. Something happens in game five and just

960
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: from you know, a younger person's perspective, it was amazing

961
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 2: reading about this. In game five, Charlie Ward and PJ.

962
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: Brown get tangled up at the free throw line. It

963
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: seems like, you know, kind of like a WWE move.

964
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: PJ Brown flips Charlie Ward over. It results in a brawl.

965
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: This is game five, you're down three to one. You

966
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: end up winning that game, and the NBA decides to

967
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: suspend five Knicks players and one Heat player. You can't

968
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 2: suspend all five players right away because then the Knicks

969
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't be eligible. You need to divide it up alphabetically

970
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: so they could do to the suspension. When you hear

971
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: that news and you see guys like, you know, Patrick

972
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: Ewing is going to be suspended for game six, and

973
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: Larry Johnson's going to be suspended for game seven, and

974
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 2: Alan Houston, like, you know, was that a surprise? I

975
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: think it's kind of funny when you look back at it,

976
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: and like PJ. Brown was the one that flipped, was

977
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: the one that flipped Charlie Ward? But then five Knicks

978
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 2: players get suspended. Only one heat player gets suspended. Uh,

979
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: what what I mean that that had to have And

980
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: we'll get to your Game seven performance, which you know,

981
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: suspensions aside, was one of the best Game seven performances

982
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 2: in NBA history. But with those suspensions, like, what is

983
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: your initial reaction when you hear it, is it like,

984
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: all right, they deserve it?

985
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 4: Or what happened there?

986
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: Before the season, it was a memo that the general

987
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: managers had to come out and read from the NBA.

988
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: If there's an altercation on the floor, who was ever

989
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: on the bench cannot step out on the floor and help?

990
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: All right? Then they reinerated two or three times during

991
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: the season. Then they reiterated right before you go and

992
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: play in the playoffs. Okay, I was the culprit and

993
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: telling who went out on the floor. I shot the

994
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: free throw. All right, we was down. The game was

995
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: over with. PJ said that he undercut him. PJ, So

996
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: it's I don't know who was right there. PJ was

997
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: in the middle and Charlie wore you know how they

998
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: line up three and then two on the side. There

999
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: was there was no sense of you to even try

1000
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: to box him out. The game was over with don't

1001
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: even box him out. Let it go. We wasn't gonna win,

1002
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: but he said, PJ said, he tried to do a

1003
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: football move and undercut him and whatever, and PJ picked

1004
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: him up and threw them and then they came out.

1005
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: None of our guys came out on the floor. All

1006
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: they guys came out on the floor. You got to

1007
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: read the memo or hear the memo. They didn't want

1008
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: to oblige by the memo. That wasn't our fault, that

1009
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: was their fault. So yeah, I told on them. It

1010
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: was me. I told the I said the league. Yet

1011
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: this guy was came out to that guy came up

1012
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: the bench, and this and that, this and that. Hey, hey,

1013
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: hey we gotta win, baby, we gotta win.

1014
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, what you mean I'm telling you to? Yeah, yeah, you.

1015
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: Could take it how you want to take it. But

1016
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: you the memo said, don't come on the floor.

1017
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 3: You can't help it that y'all was disciplined and read

1018
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 3: the memo, and from from top to bottom, everybody was

1019
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 3: on the same page. They didn't happen together over there.

1020
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: So that's part of professionalism, yep.

1021
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's happened. It's happened a few times.

1022
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: It happened with the Suns and the Spurs. Stardomire got suspended.

1023
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: Uh gotta readefined print.

1024
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: You gotta redefined print.

1025
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 3: Yes.

1026
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then so you win game six. Game seven

1027
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 2: is in Miami, and I'm gonna say this.

1028
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this Game six we oh we it

1029
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: was funky there in the guarden. Oh my god, oh

1030
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: you're talking about I never heard it like that in

1031
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: the garden before I can if Me and you was

1032
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: talking in front of each other. I couldn't even hear you.

1033
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: I had to read your lips, that's how loud it was.

1034
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: But it was a great atmosphere. We went in a

1035
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: great atmosphere in one.

1036
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: Here.

1037
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 4: Then you're going back then, you know, the three.

1038
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: Point was shorter, it was it was. It wasn't college,

1039
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: it was European three points. They experimented with that, and

1040
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: Zoe made a couple of threes right there. We was like, no, Zoe,

1041
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: he shut the ball. It's like, what y'all talking about?

1042
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: I can make that. He was like, okay, top of

1043
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: the key, yeah, top of the.

1044
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: Key, top of the key. Yeah. Because he had that,

1045
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: he was money at fifteen from top of the key.

1046
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: It was a three, but I remember he was top

1047
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: of the key. I remember from fifteen straight on money.

1048
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: So he was a couple of feet back. It's two

1049
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: feedback he made and we won that game there and

1050
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: then your game seven was game seven.

1051
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: He was, well, I mean, you're not going to say it,

1052
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: but that's got to be one of them. I'm sure

1053
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: when you oh, no question, see how too that you

1054
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: you probably still get the chills. One of the one

1055
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 2: of the just you hear. I mean you hear people

1056
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: today talk about Steph Curry like taking over a game

1057
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,439
Speaker 2: in four minutes and flipping a game on its head,

1058
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 2: But I mean one after the other. I don't think

1059
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 2: you hit the rim that game.

1060
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 4: It was net that net.

1061
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: Uh?

1062
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 4: What what are you most mean?

1063
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: What? What?

1064
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: What do you think about when you hear people talk

1065
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: about that or you just you know, do you sometimes daydream?

1066
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: I remember that game game. I remember that game like

1067
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: it was yesterday. I don't remember, I don't remember I

1068
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: remember me making shots, but I remember the time out

1069
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: Zoe had is for a file early in the third quarter,

1070
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: and just the first time I ever seen Pat Rally

1071
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: not say a word in a in a time out.

1072
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: He didn't say not one word. So I had to

1073
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: I say, you know what, and I look down the

1074
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: bench and everybody had a little not days. But they

1075
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: was puzzled. What we're gonna do? You know, they didn't

1076
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do. I said, you know what,

1077
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I got it, you know. I

1078
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: just went back to my what I know what I

1079
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: can do back in the streets Chicago. I'm just gonna

1080
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: take over, like I know me take over and you know,

1081
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: back in the summer league or whatever, it's just gonna

1082
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: be a summer league game to me. And that's what

1083
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: it was. I went out there, started making shots after

1084
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: shots after shots. My teammate started following me, playing defense,

1085
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: rebound the ball. We was we was making everybody's mixing

1086
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: for Sean PJ. Mashburn. So I just took the lead

1087
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you know, our leader, he our

1088
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: leader on the bench. It is not saying anything. So

1089
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: I had to help the guys on the court and

1090
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: I had to be the leader that I know I

1091
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: could be and just take it to another level.

1092
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 3: Confidence. That's that injection of confidence that you talked about

1093
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 3: earlier with like what you know, that's that coming out

1094
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 3: of shy. Not really no time for no bullshit. We're

1095
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 3: gonna go out here and who no feelings if he

1096
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 3: might be a little shit. Okay, I see what's going

1097
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 3: on here. I got this, But I know how I

1098
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 3: think I can gather how to fix this if I'm

1099
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 3: Tim hardaway and I know what I can do with

1100
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 3: my skill set, Like if that's what we're on, okay,

1101
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna at least go out here and do this

1102
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 3: till y'all figure it out right. And then when playing

1103
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: playing in the league, once you see your superstar going

1104
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 3: out of his body a little bit, it behooves you

1105
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 3: to set a better screen, to run a little faster

1106
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 3: up the court to I'm back on defense to make

1107
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 3: sure you know what I mean. You ready, if he

1108
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 3: needs an outlet or he needs he needs you to

1109
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 3: knock down a shot. So, just speaking as a teammate

1110
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 3: and watching some of the people blackout from Kobe defence

1111
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: carters and all the people I played with, like, when

1112
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: the star goes like that, you gotta go with him.

1113
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 3: And it might not necessarily be points, but it could

1114
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 3: be rebound screens, energy, IQ being in the right spot.

1115
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 3: So that's the point. That's the perspective I can speak

1116
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 3: from as a role player. You know, when the when,

1117
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 3: when the when, the you know, the top notch Hall

1118
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 3: of Famer starts blacking out that everybody he tends to

1119
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: ride and the custom really even got to do nothing.

1120
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: No, he was ain't exactly, you know. And when you

1121
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: started doing that, you started seeing the knicks. They was.

1122
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: They was kind of like a deer in hair lights.

1123
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: The ass was like, oh, ship, oh, what are we

1124
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: gonna do? How are we gonna stop this? He just

1125
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: playing by himself basically, you know. So, and I was

1126
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: in this groove where you know, uh, and I've been

1127
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: in grooves like that in practice, and Pappy like, damn,

1128
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I get grooves like this. You know,

1129
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: I get real quick. You know. I got in that

1130
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: groove real quick because I want to win. My whole

1131
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: objective was to go play at home in front of

1132
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: my family and friends in the Eastern Conference finals against

1133
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: the Bulls. That's all I wanted to do and let

1134
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: it go from there. And yeah, that's what that man,

1135
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: That's all I was thinking, Well you.

1136
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 4: Did that, Yeah, you did that.

1137
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 2: The one problem is the Bulls are what on seven

1138
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: days rest? They had played the Bullets and the Hawks

1139
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: in the previous two rounds, you would just basically went

1140
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: through a war with the New York seven games. You

1141
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: get one day off, and then you're off to Chicago.

1142
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: I'm curious, like, you win that game seven, you have

1143
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 2: the series of your life, You have one day off,

1144
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 2: which is probably a travel day, and then you got

1145
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 2: to play the Bulls. You know, physically, it's impossible to

1146
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: prepare for a series and reset in one day, especially

1147
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: when it's one of the greatest teams of all time

1148
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 2: and probably the greatest player of all time. So you're

1149
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 2: excited to go back to Chicago. But what is that

1150
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,919
Speaker 2: mindset like when you have the game of your life

1151
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 2: and then you got to turn around in less than

1152
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: forty eight hours and go to an even bigger stage

1153
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 2: against an even better team, and all that's happening in

1154
01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 2: your home city in front of all your family.

1155
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: Tell you that we had them, we had in the

1156
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: first half. We had them. They didn't know what to do.

1157
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: We was picking and rolling. They asked to death Jordan Scottie.

1158
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: They couldn't get over the pick. Harper couldn't get over

1159
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: the pick. We was going to the basket. I was

1160
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: making plays. I was getting people wide open. They was

1161
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: making shots. We had them and what we did that

1162
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: they wanted us to do because they guard this better

1163
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: than they could guard our pick and roll high pick

1164
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: and row. We started going down low and started going

1165
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: to Zoe.

1166
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 4: That's right up the alley.

1167
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: That's right up the alley. You know we're gonna trap Zoe.

1168
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: We're gonna be long as fuck, and you're gonna have

1169
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: to pass it out. And once we passed it out,

1170
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: if it gets deflected, we got four seconds. We got

1171
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: three seconds, all right, So that we played into their hands.

1172
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: If we would have just stayed that ain't playing and

1173
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: then beat them that first game and then come back

1174
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: and go to Zoe that second game. See, you gotta

1175
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: be one step ahead of them. You gotta you got

1176
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: you gotta make them start guessing or second guessing themselves

1177
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: once they because they they knew what they had, they

1178
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: knew what they could do, and they know.

1179
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 3: PJ knows weaknesses to it. His teams traditionally do not

1180
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: do well with pick and roll teams.

1181
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: Yep, we was up or we was down one. I

1182
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: had a gull on the team, tell me, man Jordan

1183
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: and locker room cussing people out, cussing peel out, what

1184
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna do with pick and rolls. We gotta change

1185
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: this up, change that up. And then we played right

1186
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: into their hands. I'm not saying that, excuse me, you

1187
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: can't go to Zoe. I'm just saying you can't play

1188
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: in their hands. That was what they wanted to see,

1189
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: that's what they wanted to do, and they had that

1190
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: lined up. The pick and roll. They was all confused,

1191
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: so always they I mean, they was all confused. But

1192
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: see see, like like John Stocking, you gotta have somebody

1193
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: else run a pick and roll. You gotta have somebody

1194
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: else come and and and there's a threat to go

1195
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: to the hole and make something at the rim. They

1196
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: knew that John wasn't gonna shoot at the rim, all right.

1197
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: They knew that I was. So they had to collapse

1198
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: and I get out to people and make plays mm hmm.

1199
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: And and and if they if they know your game

1200
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: plan and they know what you're doing, they it's over.

1201
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 3: But that he good at that good he good at

1202
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 3: that man, he good it. Once he wants you to,

1203
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 3: you got to make him adjusted. Right once he feels

1204
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: like you're trying to preadjust oh, got you right? You

1205
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like if you if he goes

1206
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: off schedule, got Michael Jordan figuring out, well, this ain't

1207
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: in the game plan, this ain't what we talked about.

1208
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. We can't even he didn't

1209
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 3: even sometimes Tim wasn't even probably getting the pick and rolls.

1210
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: He was just getting motion and getting in the acts

1211
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: right like that havel him nervous. Now he talking to

1212
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: the assistance.

1213
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: He talking to.

1214
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 3: Mike and Scotty. Scotty, I need you to do the thing.

1215
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: Man.

1216
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 3: You know you're a Scottie Pippin thing. But if you

1217
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 3: just try to adjust or like, nah, we're gonna play

1218
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 3: our game, that's what he That's what he waits for you. No,

1219
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 3: we're gonna play our game. And y gotta nah no, no, no, no,

1220
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 3: that's what he's counting on. That's why that's his little

1221
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 3: zen master, his years of experience a basketball game. So

1222
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 3: I just want you know, I played for PJ. I

1223
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 3: know we suffered in the pick and roll. I know

1224
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 3: he was he was inviting that ball to go down

1225
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,439
Speaker 3: into the coat doing them. So you know what yep,

1226
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: what's what was your relationship with Mike like? Because you

1227
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 3: said he used to play pick up with him? Obviously

1228
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 3: you're from Chicago, he's you know, mister Chicago. But what's

1229
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 3: your relationship like with MG Are you talking to him?

1230
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 3: Does he talk to you?

1231
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 4: Are you not talking to him? We'll paint that picture

1232
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 4: for us.

1233
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: I see him during the summer. We played pickup game.

1234
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: You know, we hang out, we kick it, play ball

1235
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: against one another and work out and stuff like that

1236
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: with Tim Grover. But other than that during the season,

1237
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, no, it was no relationship or nothing like that.

1238
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: I see him during the summer and that was about it.

1239
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: But you know, a lot of people I know he's

1240
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: a cool guy. You know, he always been cool with me.

1241
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: I always hear cool things about him. I always hear

1242
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: cool things from his teammates that you know how he

1243
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: took care of them and and made sure they was

1244
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: right whatever they needed advice on whatever. So yeah, he

1245
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a one guy.

1246
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: To me, Well, we appreciate your time. I know it's

1247
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 2: gone a little bit over. We're gonna get out of

1248
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 2: here quickly.

1249
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 3: Question.

1250
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: Let me say this, Yeah, I'm gonna say this you

1251
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: know a lot of people. Uhh. I think Alan and

1252
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: Iverson and myself are like bumping heads. You know.

1253
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 4: Well, did you see the did you see the video

1254
01:07:58,960 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 4: that came out yesterday?

1255
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: I saw that. I watched it.

1256
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 4: They made it seem like it was like a deep seated.

1257
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: Hatreds Iverson have love for one another. Of course, we

1258
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: had love for one another ever since they one. You know,

1259
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you this. We talk about crossovers and

1260
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: who had the better crossover, who who's the best in

1261
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: this Now, I'm gonna tell you this. We both in

1262
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. We both had great careers in

1263
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: the NBA. We was chasing after that ring. We both

1264
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: didn't get the ring. He's right, he should be in

1265
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: Philadelphia seventy six or some formal way as something in

1266
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: the organization. I think Alan Iverson in his later years

1267
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: with Detroit and with Denver got a bad rap.

1268
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: I was there for one of those years in Denver

1269
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 3: for partial there, dear, he definitely did. He didn't age

1270
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 3: gracefully into the night like they wanted to. But when

1271
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 3: you put a person on such a big pedestal culturally

1272
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: and figuratively, just considered in the NBA. You know what

1273
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 3: I mean. You would think there's been players who are

1274
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 3: allowed to gracefully transition out of the line like while

1275
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 3: still maintaining a starting position.

1276
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: He should have been one of them, you know, he should.

1277
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you this, Larry Brown, one of the

1278
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: greatest coaches in basketball history, understood what he needed to

1279
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: do with Alan Iverson and how he needed to play

1280
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: Al Knipsen. Other coaches didn't know how to. So that

1281
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: that shows you how brilliant Larry Brown mine was and

1282
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: his basketball mine was. So I always got nothing but

1283
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: love for Alan Iverson, and this stigma that we hate

1284
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: each other, I dislike him or you know, we talk

1285
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: about the crossover and this and that. People need to

1286
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: get that out of their head. I don't dislike Alan,

1287
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: Alan Knipson, don't dislike me. We had good friends. We

1288
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 1: got nothing but love for one another. And I wish

1289
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: people would stop thinking that I hate him or he

1290
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: hates me. It's not like that at all.

1291
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 2: I thank you, thank you for saying that. I think

1292
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 2: it's kind of a culture today. Everybody wants to anoy

1293
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,839
Speaker 2: one person the king of one move or one player

1294
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 2: the greatest. But I think the crossover, like many things

1295
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 2: in basketball, has a storied history, and you are both

1296
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: a key part of that. It doesn't matter, you know,

1297
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 2: there's not one person that has to who owns it,

1298
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 2: who owns the crossover. Everybody does it from grade school

1299
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 2: now to the NBA.

1300
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: And what kills me is that ESPN, when they put

1301
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: the greatest crossovers on there, they don't put me on

1302
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 1: there because of what happened when I was working with

1303
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: ESPN way back in two thousand and five. They still

1304
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: try to get back at me, and I laugh at him.

1305
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 1: That's why I don't do nothing for ESPN anymore, because

1306
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: they know. They don't want me to be on none.

1307
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: And they don't even my son to be the highest

1308
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: score on Dallas Mavericks, all right, they won't even put

1309
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 1: his name up. They won't even show a highlight up

1310
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: on ESPN.

1311
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 3: Because of the because of youth thinking. They don't want

1312
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 3: to see that name on the text, right, yeah, all.

1313
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: That, so they, you know, and it discussed me, and they,

1314
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, they always say that, you know, this is Disney,

1315
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: Walt Disney's supposed to give and forget. They haven't never

1316
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: forgive or forgotten me. So yeah, so I just want

1317
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: to put that out there too, and I'm I'm glad

1318
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,560
Speaker 1: Pat McAfee is on them about what's what's going on

1319
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: with that, because they are wrong.

1320
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 2: I have one last thing for Iverson and I saw

1321
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: I was watching highlights and if you remember, maybe it

1322
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: was the first time you match up against him, you

1323
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 2: had an isolate on the right wing in front of

1324
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: they were setting up that you were setting up the

1325
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 2: two steps, and I know that you knew that he

1326
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 2: thought you were going to try and cross him over

1327
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 2: as a statement, and you went through the legs and

1328
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 2: then when left, you stayed left. So you is that

1329
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 2: you knew that that say he thought you were gonna

1330
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 2: try and cross mover.

1331
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: And that's another thing with us back then, See we

1332
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 1: understood how to play games with people that were sticking

1333
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: to us. If you think I'm going to do this move, no,

1334
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go straight ahead. I knew what he

1335
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: thought because this was at the end of the game.

1336
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: This is for game time, and a lot of people

1337
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: didn't know for game time. I put it between my

1338
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: legs or I had it in my left hand, and

1339
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: I go left and I stepped back and should have

1340
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: step back, jump shot all right, or I put it

1341
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: between my legs and go left because I know you

1342
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: want me to cross over and come back right. So

1343
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: I kept it in my left hand and went all

1344
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: the way and laid it in. See, I this is

1345
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 1: the way we grow. We we we try to outguess you,

1346
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: out guessing us. Know. So so when I saw him

1347
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: hedge up on me, I was like, I got him.

1348
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm going left. It was wide open. So I mean, yeah,

1349
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we we played games with each other. We laughed.

1350
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: He shot it in my face. We laughed. You know,

1351
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: he takes me to the whole. We laughed. I take

1352
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 1: him down low, he said. He'll be like, Yah, you're

1353
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: not gonna take me down and down low. We're gonna

1354
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: double team. I'm like, well, you're gonna have to double

1355
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,799
Speaker 1: teav you know. So it was all fun and stuff

1356
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: like that. So but yeah, I have fun playing with him. Man,

1357
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, competitive competitor. You have fun playing with him

1358
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: and or against the competitor and enjoy yourself. So yeah,

1359
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I remember that move like it was yesterday.

1360
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1361
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 4: I think I think.

1362
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 2: I think the small dudes, you know, I feel like,

1363
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 2: you know, there aren't too many guys that were six

1364
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 2: foot one that.

1365
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 3: We you to a crossover. You had to have a crossover.

1366
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know, a lot of people

1367
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: don't know in Chicago, you have to have a move back.

1368
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: Then you had to have because it's a lot of

1369
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: hand checking. A lot of.

1370
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 3: Is known for defense, you know what I mean.

1371
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so, like like Isaiah Thomas said, the

1372
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: West sid had defense, the South side had offense. I

1373
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: was on the South side. I knew how to play defense,

1374
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: but it was all offense. You know. I just wasn't

1375
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 1: getting my stuff off. So and then when we played

1376
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 1: against them, they had to show who was a better defense,

1377
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 1: and we had to show them that we had good offense.

1378
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, so that's the way it was.

1379
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: And I practiced in dribble dribble, dribble, dribble drip all

1380
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 1: the time. Man. That was my fortake. And I love

1381
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: just going out there and just playing and compete each

1382
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: and every night.

1383
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 2: That's a great way to close it. We really appreciate

1384
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 2: your time, man. It's always a pleasure to talk to

1385
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 2: somebody like you who paved the way and did things

1386
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 2: that so few players in sports history were able to do.

1387
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 2: So we really appreciate your time. This was great, and

1388
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 2: uh hope to work with you again sometimes.

1389
01:14:58,560 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate.

1390
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 3: I want to go. I'm going to add one thing, man,

1391
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 3: to the youngsters out there listening and forgotten seasons. You know,

1392
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 3: when we talk about Tim Hardaway's cultural relevance, go back

1393
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 3: and look at them Nike commercials for the air Raid.

1394
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 3: He was part of the Spike League campaigns. He was

1395
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:19,879
Speaker 3: a member of the Fun Police. He's got classic lines

1396
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 3: like I got.

1397
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 4: Skilled, you know what I mean, I got skills.

1398
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 3: In class and these are all things from my twelve

1399
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,520
Speaker 3: year old, thirteen year old mind. I had an opportunity

1400
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 3: to play in the NBA and bump against legends like

1401
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 3: you know, Tim Hardaway and everybody that I had on

1402
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 3: my wall. And you got to remember, when you're coming

1403
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 3: up in the nineties, it wasn't a position thing. Like

1404
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 3: I knew I was tall and supposed to play like

1405
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:48,679
Speaker 3: David Robinson, but I want.

1406
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: To do that.

1407
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 3: I wanted to do tep two step, you know what

1408
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 3: I mean. I wanted the big dudes want alan. I

1409
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 3: want to move like Penny. So I just want to

1410
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 3: I just want to really put it in inphasent on

1411
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 3: younger players fans of basketball to really go back and

1412
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 3: look at Tim Hardaway's contributions to the game on and

1413
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 3: off the court, and you'll understand Alan Iverson's, the Vince

1414
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 3: Carter's and how the NBA got into the hip hop

1415
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 3: and how you know, Michael Jordan showed us, you know,

1416
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 3: the Emmy a little bit. But you know, without the

1417
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 3: Tim Hardaways of the world run TMCs and the cultural

1418
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 3: things that happen, we don't really start to learn just

1419
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 3: how black the NBA is for real, for real. We

1420
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 3: had an idea. Magic came in with a suit, Mike

1421
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 3: came in with a suit, you know, you know what

1422
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 3: I mean. Tim Hardaway started showing up in commercials and

1423
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 3: stuff with cutto offs and a chain here, and he

1424
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 3: was wearing his sweats a little differently, and he had

1425
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 3: he was talking like I got uncles from Shottown. He

1426
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 3: sounded like my uncle from Shottown. But he was out

1427
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. But he was out there killing.

1428
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 3: So my hats off to U O. G. This has

1429
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 3: been an absolute pleasure as a fan, as a member

1430
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,639
Speaker 3: of the association. We're doing a lot content wise. If

1431
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 3: you know, you don't want to do nothing on the

1432
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 3: ESPN slave, but you still want to have a voice.

1433
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 3: We would love to have you, you know, contributing somehow

1434
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 3: and as a member of you know, the Association and

1435
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 3: as a fan in the Historian Basketball. We just want

1436
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 3: to give you your flowers and we really appreciate your time.

1437
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 3: And like I said, for fans, if you don't know

1438
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 3: about Tim Hardaway, google him.

1439
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, I appreciate you all. Thanks for having me.

1440
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 1: And hey man, just let me know, I mean, just

1441
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: let me know for sure.

1442
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, thank you.