1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue here is investment in marginalized communities. 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: They want to deconstruct this package and cherry pick what 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: they like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: with major investments. Bloomberg sound On, the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: the insides. Biden has Thomas again and again that he 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: will unite the country. Who do you think Biden has 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: to watch in terms of moderate defectors infort the structure 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: has always been by part of the Bloomberg sound On 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden announced today that after twenty years, 11 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: the United States is finally pulling out of Afghanistan. We'll 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: talk about that with former State Department spokesperson Morgen Ortegas, 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: plus will check in with Representative Jamenas from Florida. Begin 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: tonight with the big story of the day, and that 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: is President by announcing from the Treaty Room earlier this 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: afternoon that he is going to pull all remaining combat 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: troops out of Afghanistan by September eleventh of this year. 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: His decision to speak from the Treaty room is significant, 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: as many of us remember my students don't, but they 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: were too young. But as many of us remember, twenty 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: years ago, that was the same room where then President 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: George W. Bush announced that we were going to be 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: invading Afghanistan. And of course, in that time it has 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: proven to be a costly decision for the US. Two 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: trillion dollars spent, more than twenty four hundred American troops died, 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: not to mention a hundred fifty thousand Afghans killed in 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: that same period, including about forty three thousand civilians. And 28 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: I believe we have sound on President Biden speaking today 29 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: from the Treaty room in the White House. War in 30 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: Afghanistan was never meant to be a multi generational narty. 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: We were attacked, we went to war with clear goals. 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: We achieve those objectives, and Lawdon is dead, and al 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: Qaida is degraded and around in Afghanistan, and it's time 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: to end the forever war. And joining me to talk 35 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: about this big news today, I'm so delighted to speak 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: once again to a former State Department spokesperson, Morgan or 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: take us. Morgan, thank you so much for joining us, 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it so Morgan, 39 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: I have to start with what we just heard President 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Biden say, and it was something we heard Anthony Lincoln 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: say as well. We have achieved those objectives in your estimation? 42 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Have we achieved those objectives? And is it time to leave? 43 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: Oh that's a really long question, um. Answer to a 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: long question, I could spend the hour on. So I 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: think we have to look at it a few ways. 46 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the biggest things that we talked 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: about in the Trump administration is exactly what you said 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show that your students weren't 49 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: even alive, many of them when I where we went 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: into Afghanistan and not certainly, I think something that weighed heavily, 51 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: very heavily on us in the Trump administration. I'm still 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: in the Navy reserves. I'm an officer, and could you 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: know I could theoretically get deployed there. And you have 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: to ask yourself, you know, if if I were to 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: go and leave my infant daughter, why are me or 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: many other people in the military telling our children that 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: we were leaving. What are we saying to your student 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: You know, military people in the military of your students age, 59 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: who are still going to Afghanistan. So one thing I 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: would remember is that what President Biden announced today is 61 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: actually just an extension of the Trump plan. And what 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: I mean by that is President Trump, through my tempe 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: or Secretary State and Ambassador Kuilzad, who actually Biden and 64 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: Blincoln kept on been two years in the Trump administration 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: negotiating with the Taliban trying to come to a peace deal. Um, 66 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: and we did. Mike Pompeo signed a peace deal in 67 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: February of in Doha. Is actually one of the last 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: trips that we took before things about lockdown was COVID. 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: So we signed that deal and we pledged in that 70 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: deal that we would get out by May of this year. Uh. 71 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: And of course, what President Biden today actually announced was 72 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: an extension on that piece deal that was negotiated by 73 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. And I do think that that's an 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: important point, not necessarily to give you know, Pompeo or 75 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Trump credit, but to say that there is a bipartisan 76 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: consensus on both sides of the Aisle that twenty years 77 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: of war, in many Americans minds is too much. Now 78 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: what does that mean? That means it's it's it's definitely 79 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: you know, likely that the Taliban could take over. I 80 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: think everyone's cognizant of that. I just think in this 81 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: new age, people are asking themselves, as the President said today, 82 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: do we need to spend more money on China and 83 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: defenses related to China and their issues. I'm sorry, I'm 84 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: talking too much. No, you're not, No, because you're just 85 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: you got me very excited. I wanted to ask you 86 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: right on that last point you made about the Taliban. 87 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: We heard from many people today obviously in response to this, 88 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: including Lindsay Graham, basically make the case that we are 89 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: we are going to see a resurgent Taliban um and 90 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: I believe we have sound on that. I don't trust 91 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: the Taliban to look out for American interest, but we're 92 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: finding ourselves in a very precarious situation. So, Morgan, what 93 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that is we are 94 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: leaving at this point with no conditions on this withdrawal. 95 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: Many policy experts say that that is dangerous to the 96 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: extent it leaves us with very limited leverage to shape 97 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: really Taliban the Taliban's choices. Do you agree with that assessment? 98 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 1: Should there be conditions on this withdrawal? Yes, it's all true. 99 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: I mean, the one thing that your yours, your listeners 100 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: have to understand is that when you work in poul 101 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: and foreign policy, you often have choices between a series 102 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: of really bad options. Now I'm chuckling because Senator Graham 103 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: is an incredibly good friend and mentor of mine, and 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: I actually called him this morning, UH to talk to 105 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: him about his thoughts, and we argued for the good 106 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: minutes on the subject. So so I've already argued I 107 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: had my fill of arguing with him today on this 108 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: and and listen as personally, I'm an incredibly hawkish person, 109 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: right Like I was on the team that was you know, 110 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: that was UH in charge of getting still money whenever 111 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: I worked for Mike Pompeo. So it's not a lack 112 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: of being hawkish. I think there's a lot of people 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle that are looking at 114 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: UH resources from the from the U. S. Government towards 115 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: the military obviously tax tax resources, and how are we 116 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: how are we paying for everything that's important to military 117 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: in a military budget? So is it here? So here's 118 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: a really crass and really hard way way to look 119 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: at it. Is it true that it's possible that ISIS 120 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: and al Qaeda could re reconstitute once we leave. Yes, 121 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: that's why we've been there for twenty years, because we 122 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: always knew it was possible for them to reconstitute, and 123 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: no one wanted them, wanted that to happen on our watch. Yes, 124 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: it's possible that the that the Taliban could take over, 125 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why President Biden and 126 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: Secretary of Lincoln Cathon Ambassador Khalil Azad to continue to 127 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: try to negotiate them with the Taliban to get a 128 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: represent The whole goal of this was a representative government 129 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: where you had women, where you had the Taliban, where 130 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: you had civil society, where you had the government of 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: Afghanistan applicable to try and form a representative government. Now, 132 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: that's really hard and in most cases in world history 133 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: that exercise fails. Good after twenty years and live lost, 134 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: we thought it was incumbent upon us to to try, 135 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the Biden administration felt the same way. 136 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: So Morgan, you know, I would wish you really would 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: record these conversations that you have with Lindsay Grammar. Tell 138 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: him to come on with us so we can hear 139 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: you to argue about this um you mentioned you please 140 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: do please do you know you have an infant daughter. 141 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: I have much older children. And one thing we always 142 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: tell our children is if if you go in the 143 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: store and you touch the object and you break it, 144 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: you buy it. So is that the case when it 145 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: comes to the United States in a place like Afghanistan, 146 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: we are going obviously be leaving a completely by nine 147 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: eleven um of this year. And is Joe Biden, Anthony 148 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Lincoln are they gonna own what happens thereafter that which 149 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: many people are familiar with the area that the predictions 150 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: are pretty die or in terms of women's rights and 151 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: other critical issues, they are they are. And I would 152 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: say this is why you know I I try to 153 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: look at this analytically for your listeners, and I will 154 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: tell you I'm personally conflicted about it, you know. I 155 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: I definitely you know, represented and work of zal and 156 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: in Secretary of Pompeio. You know, on the on the 157 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: on the piece deal. But I also for many years 158 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: is on the board of the group that helped funds 159 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: the outside group that helped funds in the American University 160 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. I've been to Afghanistan as a civilian to 161 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: speak to a women's entrepreneurship group because I'm a little 162 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: I've got a screw less I guess. So I've personally 163 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: have done a lot to help education and women Afghanistan. 164 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: So I don't I don't, I don't. I don't think 165 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: anybody and who's making these foreign policy decisions looks at 166 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: this likely lightly. I know that President Trump, just from 167 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: my dealings in the administration, was was fine to take 168 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: on the responsibility of leaving Afghanistan. And but that's why 169 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: we tried to work towards a peace deal and trying 170 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: to get a representative government and Afghanistan and was something 171 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: They're just not fair and foreign policy, they will land 172 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: on your lap. I will tell you what the Biden 173 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: administration won't have to do. There's a really interesting parallel 174 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: actually if you look after President and Senator Graham has 175 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: made this parallel and I think I argued this one 176 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: without this morning, but but he's right. So if you 177 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: look at Iraq after two thousand and eight or two 178 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, so President Obama is a not hiated 179 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: he announces that we're leaving Iraq, and what and we 180 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: watched over several years we watched um isis grow uh 181 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: and ancestor and and uh. And you know there was 182 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: really no you know, it's former al Qaida and Iraq 183 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: to get really lonky, but there was essentially uh no 184 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: that the entity a visis was new Interrock after President 185 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: Obama withdrew our troops. Now the comparison to the Afghanistan 186 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: you could look at what Biden, you know, had done, 187 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: sort of accepting the Trump peace plan, accepting the Trump timeline, 188 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: just extending it by a few months, and you can say, now, 189 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: what happens if the same thing happens in Afghanistan that 190 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: happened in Iraq in two thousand nine and two thousand cents. 191 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: I think that many people would argue, and you'd have 192 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: to get some military scholars on to debate our ability 193 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: to do this without without any sort of afford presence, um, 194 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: you know in Southeast Asia. UM not to the expert 195 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: that we have an instant come for sure. So the 196 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: argument would be, can you watch if al Qaida and 197 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: I discussed her and can you go in and it's 198 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: already be blunt, but can you go in and wack 199 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: them right and take care of them before they grow 200 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: into the entity that they grew into in Iraq. So 201 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: I do think you know that the Biden administrations could 202 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: look at that carefully. They should learn the lessons of 203 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: the Obama withdraw in Iraq, Um and what happened in 204 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: two thousand nine and ten and so on. Whenever Isis, 205 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, UH grew infested and took over ira in Syria. UM, 206 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: they certainly should not let al Qaida and Isis grow 207 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan the way you know, the way it didn't rock. 208 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: If it does, they're going to have to own that. 209 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: But it is, it is really, really, really tough. And 210 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: it's such an important analogy. You raise historical analogy. I 211 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: think we all need to think about tonight. And and 212 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: Morgan Ortegas, it is such a delight to talk to 213 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: you always. UM, please please come back with Lindsey Graham 214 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: and all your arguments. Would love to talk to you again. UM, 215 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. UM. And and that is a 216 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: former State Department spokesperson, Morgan or Tegus, also an officer 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: in the United States Navy Reserve. UM. And we should 218 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: note that President Biden, after making his remarks about our 219 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: withdrawal from Afghanistan, he himself the father of a soldier 220 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: who fought in the war, made a visit to Section 221 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: sixty in Arlington National Cemetery, where many of the dead 222 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: from the Afghan War are buried. I'm paniz No and 223 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. Ye, this is Bloomberg sound on on 224 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My name is Janie's jam zan No. I'm 225 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: a Bloomberg political contributor and I am delighted to be 226 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: a company today by Frank Maisano, a partner at brace 227 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Well's Policy Resolution Group. Frank, it is so good to 228 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: talk to you. I hope you're enjoying the beautiful weather today. 229 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: He yeah, Hi, Genie, it's raining down here in d C. 230 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: So I come to New York. Frank, I'm excited to 231 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: see a little rain. I know that. I just heard 232 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: the weather. It's coming your way. So but I just 233 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: planted a bunch of stuff at the house and my 234 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: wife has been all over me to do that, and 235 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of rain, so it's going in. 236 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: It's perfect. So that's a good thing, right, a good thing. Um. 237 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: We also had some good news on a very very 238 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: bad transition here. Frank, I'm sorry to say, but um, 239 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: some good news from Jerome Powell today. Talking about the economy, UM, 240 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell said that the 241 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: economy appears to be on an inflection point, poised for 242 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: stronger growth and hiring from here on out as the 243 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: country emerges from the pandemic. He said, a further spread 244 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: of COVID cases remains the big risk, which is something 245 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: I want to ask Frank about in a moment. He 246 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: spoke with David Rubinstein, Carlisle Group co chairman and co 247 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: founder at a virtual event hosted by the Economic Club 248 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: of Washington, and I believe we have sound on that 249 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: the economy at this point does seem to be at 250 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: a bit of an inflection point. And that makes sense 251 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: with ever more widespread vaccinations, with strong fiscal policy, with 252 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: continued support from monetary policy. You see the econom on 253 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: the opening. You can see ridership on airplanes going up 254 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: and people going back to restaurants. I think the March 255 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: jobs report that we recently got shows what that can 256 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: look like. So Frank, I wanted to ask you, UM. 257 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: You know Powell has been noting on sixty minutes over 258 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: the weekend. In his remarks today that the big risk 259 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: is obviously further spread of COVID cases. He has said 260 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: less about the possibility of inflation or overheating the economy. 261 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: What's your view on this? Well, honestly, UM, you can 262 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: really feel that the momentum of the economy is starting 263 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: to come back. You know, I do a lot of 264 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: work in the oil and gas industry. The oil and 265 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: gas industry is seeing a strong, a stronger recovery now 266 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: that's expected to continue still not at maybe twenty levels, 267 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: but certainly well beyond anywhere where we were during the 268 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: COVID downturn. So we're starting to see that strength there. 269 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: I was just traveling last week. The airports were packed. Um, 270 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: So I do I do? Uh? And then of course, 271 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, you can go out to any restaurant around 272 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: here in in the Maryland d C. Area and you 273 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: start to see more and more people, more and more tables, 274 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: uh turning over. So I really do feel the momentum 275 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: of the economy. Certainly, there is that Um, there is 276 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: that uncertainty, especially in a place like Michigan where they're 277 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of extra cases. UM, where maybe there's 278 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: been some hesitance to to get vaccines. But I really 279 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: do feel like even with a slight blip up in 280 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: some of the cases that we're seeing, people are really 281 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: starting to feel the rebound of the economy and and 282 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: taking and the vaccines kicking in for them to be 283 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: able to kind of inched back towards um, towards towards 284 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: a regular life or pre COVID life. Now, what I 285 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: would say about inflation is it's a concern. It may 286 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: not be on Powell's speaking points, but it's certainly on 287 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: his mind, I think, And it's certainly on the mind 288 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: from what I'm reading from some of the administration. They're 289 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: somewhat concerned that they're they're overheating, that they could overheat 290 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: um this and you know the fact that Larry Summers 291 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,359 Speaker 1: has been kind of poopooed by a lot of progressives. 292 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: I really do think Biden is kind of keeping an 293 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: ear to the ground with the Larry Summers approach, um 294 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: because they really don't want to crank this up so 295 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: that it can't be be slowed down right on an 296 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: inflation side. So I do think that is a concern. 297 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: I think that's something they're looking at. So that's exactly 298 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: what I wanted to ask you. Two point two trillion 299 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: for this first Job's infrastructure package? Too big, too much? 300 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: What is your view on that? Well, I mean it's 301 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: a lot of money, right, we just and and and 302 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: you remember that's on top of a big package that 303 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: had lots of energy provisions, lots of uh P p 304 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: P loans and things that we passed in December, right, 305 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: So you know, I do think that Democrats, Um, they 306 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: wanted to score a political victory. Right. Um, there's no 307 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: doubt about it didn't need to be this big, and 308 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: it didn't need to happen this quickly, but it did 309 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: need to happen that quickly for from a political perspective 310 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: for them, and the fact that they went ahead and 311 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: did it alone just goes to show you that that 312 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: that it was a political a political act. So, um, 313 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: I do think that there's some concern in the minds 314 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: of folks that that that was too much, too fast. Um. 315 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: Now you're piling a debate about a massive infrastructure program 316 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: on top which, of course we certainly do need to 317 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: invest in infrastructure, right, And there's an opportunity for a 318 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 1: bipartisan approach, just like there was in December on energy 319 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: and other issues, to have a bipartisan approach to address that. 320 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: But you know, again, that's where we're going to see 321 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: the rubber meet the road. That's where Democrats, um, progress, 322 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: I mean moderate Democrats are likely going to put their 323 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: foot down, I think because remember there's only a three 324 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: vote margin in the House right now. Nancy Pelosi has 325 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: a three vote margin in the House, so she can't 326 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: afford So we're a tied Senate and a three vote 327 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: margin in the House. And those are really tight margins, 328 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: which makes people who want a pet project or like, 329 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: for instance, the guys up in the Northeast who are 330 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: hankering for getting the salt tax uh limit repealed. Um, 331 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, it gives them a lot more power to 332 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: be able to kind of hold things up. And I 333 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: think Joe Manchin has expressed that, and I there's a 334 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: swap of moderate Democrats who are going to be in 335 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: that spot too. Well. Great, Frank, we want to talk 336 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: so much more about this, in particularly your expertise in 337 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: climate and energy, and as somebody living in New York 338 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned salt I know it well. So my name 339 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: is Genie Schanzano, this is Bloomberg. I am Jeanie Schanzano. 340 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: Accompanied by Frank Maisano, partner at brace Well's Policy Resolution Group, 341 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: And Frank, I think you probably just heard Charlie mentioned 342 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: the CDC panel. The panel wrapped up today and the 343 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: CDC without a vote, which means the pause on the 344 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: j J vaccine is going to be extended. UM. So 345 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: that that's some big news out of Washington today. UM. 346 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: Other big news, UM, Frank, you're gonna mark your calendar April. 347 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has invited the President 348 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: to give his State of the State, not a State 349 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: of the Union. UM, a little bit later than many 350 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: of us thought, to a joint session of Congress, but 351 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: of course, given the pandemic, we expect it to be 352 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: smaller and more socially distant. So I wanted to ask you, 353 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: in terms of your expertise on climate and energy, what 354 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: do you want the president to say about where we 355 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: are visa v climate and energy in this country. Well, 356 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: the President is saying a lot already and the question 357 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: is can we do all that he's saying? And that's interesting. 358 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: So right now next week on what would be Earth Day, 359 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: which is the twenty two, and the twenty three, which 360 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: is Thursday, and Friday next week, he is going to 361 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: have a big climate summit where they're gonna bring international 362 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: leaders from Canada and lots of places UH here to 363 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: have a discussion about climate. Now. Domestically, they're already working hard, 364 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: right we know that they they're pushing aggressively. They're being 365 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: pushed by progressives to be aggressive, to reduce emissions, to 366 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: find ways to reduce emissions, to advance the infrastructure for 367 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: electric cars and things like that. UM. So we're going 368 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: to continue to see those efforts. UM. Right now, it's 369 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: a lot of symbolic moves that they're making to try 370 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: and turn the ship around, because remember under Donald Trump, 371 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: this ship was going in a completely opposite direction. It 372 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: was going away from the Paris Agreement, it was going 373 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: away from advancing uh some of the policies that the 374 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: that the that the Biden administration is going to take 375 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: on so related to the environment and climate change. So 376 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: the first thing they really had to do was try 377 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: to turn that ship in the direction they wanted to. UM. 378 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: And you know that that means a lot of symbolic issues, 379 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: a lot of appointments that he's making, and a lot 380 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: of push from from those appointments. To to kind of 381 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: change the direction of those agencies as they enforced laws, 382 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: as they regulate, and as they look for ways to 383 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: advance new technologies. So that's really where we are. We're 384 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: going to get a taste of it um next week 385 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: on Thursday and Friday, when he meets with all these 386 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: international leaders. We may see some new commitments from the 387 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: US as well as new commitments from Canada and South 388 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: Korea and other nations. But the big question still remains, 389 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: and and I suspect he will get into this again 390 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: uh in in in his speech to Congress. But remember 391 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: this is these issues always take a lower profile in 392 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: those big speeches, And in that speech again in Congress, 393 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: I expect him to talk more about uh COVID and 394 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: the recovery from COVID and advancing infrastructure and things that 395 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: voters are really focused on versus climate. And I know 396 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: everyone says, oh, we're focused on climate, but really voters 397 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: are not that focused on climate change as much as 398 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: they are on infrastructure and jobs and COVID, recovering from 399 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: COVID and things like that. But j let me just 400 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: tell you the one big thing that's out there, and 401 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: it's bigger than just climate. But it's it's an economic issue, 402 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: it's a competitiveness issue, it's a global trade issue. It 403 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: gets into the e V supply chain. Is this fight 404 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: we're going to have with China? And right now, Uh, 405 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: John Kerry has headed over to China. He's gonna try 406 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: and go there and do some more discussions. They had 407 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: discussions earlier in in Alaska earlier this year that didn't 408 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: go well. But really the big guns like China, in 409 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: India and in those countries are gonna be the ones 410 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: that are are gonna have to make some movement for 411 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: Biden to be really successful in pushing on this climate issue. 412 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: And I'm so glad you you mentioned John Terry ease visit. Um, 413 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: what what was your assessment of the earlier meeting in 414 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: Alaska that you mentioned, and also what do you expect 415 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: out of this meeting that going on in China. Yeah, 416 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have much success in Alaska. It 417 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: was very symbolic. There was a lot of handwringing and 418 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: and uh and and and um, you know, standing in 419 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: firm and where people are. I suspect that Carrie wouldn't 420 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: be headed to China unless he was going to try 421 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: and you know, pull them in a direction where he 422 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: could show positive progress. Um So, I think that he's 423 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: looking for ways to show that they're making progress in 424 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: light of the meeting coming up next week and light 425 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: of some of the other big events that they have. 426 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: But China is a big, big worry. You know, they 427 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: say a lot of things, and they do a lot 428 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: of things differently, and on the environment, that's always been 429 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: where they are. Last year alone, they expanded coal production 430 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: law arger than anyone else and will continue to do 431 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: that over years, and of course that's one of the 432 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: big challenges with reducing emissions. In the US, we've gone 433 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: in the opposite direction, converting a lot of our colt 434 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: and natural gas into renewables, and we've successfully reduced our 435 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: emissions dramatically since two thousand five because utilities have done 436 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: it with markets mechanisms. So um So, I do think 437 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: that China is a big question mark, and not just 438 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: on the environment, but certainly on global trade and lots 439 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: of things. If we want to be successful on on 440 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: advancing electric vehicles on that infrastructure, we have to have 441 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: the supply chain, and right now the supply chain is 442 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: owned by China. One of the things that we saw 443 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: recently was a move by a company called deep Green, 444 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: which is in the middle, which is trying to go 445 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: into deep a deep sea collection of minerals that have 446 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: all these critical minerals, so we don't have to dig 447 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: in to UH Indonesia or into the Congo to try 448 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: and get some of these critical minerals for that ev 449 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: supply chain. That's a positive development. That's gonna a lesson 450 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: our reliance on China UM. But that's the big, the 451 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: big elephant in the room, trying to get and trying 452 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: to get in ahead of China and and and battle 453 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: them on a global trade perspective. And Frank, you mentioned 454 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: so many things there, you know, I wish we had 455 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: more time to go through all of them. One thing 456 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: I want to underscore is not just Earth Day, but 457 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: the Climate Summit summit coming up that I know you're 458 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: gonna be uh watching very very carefully on the twenty 459 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: second and three, and love to talk to you again 460 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: about what you see comes out of that, and at 461 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: some point, love to get a little bit more of 462 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: your insight in terms of what you hope the administration 463 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,479 Speaker 1: will do beyond sort of this UM symbolic representation. So 464 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Frank, it has been great to 465 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: talk to you. That's Frank Maisano, a partner at grace 466 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: Well's Policy Resolution Group. I am Genie Schanzano, and this 467 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg sound on on Bloomberg Radio. 468 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: I am Genie Chanzano. UM, I am really honored to 469 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: speak today with Representative Carlos Jimenez, a Republican representing Florida's 470 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: twenty six congressional district and Representative Himenez. It is so 471 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: good to talk to you today. It's my pleasure. How 472 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: are you doing. I'm doing great and I wanted to 473 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: ask you, um. Your you sit on transportation and infrastructure, 474 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: homeland security, so you are right in the heart of 475 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: everything going on in Washington these days. I know you 476 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: took a visit recently to the border. I wanted to 477 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: see if you could just talk a little bit about 478 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: what you saw there. I saw something that was a 479 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: little bit it was out of control. Um. We have 480 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: a huge spike in people coming across the border, especially 481 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: a YOU spike and unaccompanied children and also you spike 482 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: and UH family units that have children that are less 483 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: than seven years old. Because the Biden administration has said 484 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: that they will not turn back any unaccompanied minor so 485 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: as anybody eighteen years ago under and then it will 486 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: not turn back any any family units that have children 487 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: that are are less are seven years or less. And 488 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: so UM, that's what's what's happening. UM. And so you 489 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: see extreme of migrants. UH. And unfortunately it looks like 490 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: we're in in the family separation business because a lot 491 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: of these kids that are coming over on our side, 492 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,479 Speaker 1: I actually got to the border with their with their 493 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: parents or with family members and UM, and then their 494 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: parents let them go UM because they know they can 495 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: stay here in the United States. And so it was 496 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: saw hundreds of kids in a facility that was not 497 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: ready for they're probably a thousand percent overrated capacity, even 498 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: though they had already shifted about a thousand kids two 499 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: days before we got there. And so it's really a 500 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: question at the border, and it's really of our own making. UM. 501 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: And it will not subside. It's going to just get worse. 502 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: And and representative today, the Vice President was participating in 503 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: a round table um with some national security experts on 504 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: this issue. Of course, as you know, she's been tasked 505 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: by the president with getting the situation under control, and 506 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: when reporters were in the room, Vice President Harris said 507 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: it was important to deal with the root causes of 508 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: the migration, and she hinted at an upcoming trip to 509 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: the region. I believe we have sound on that. Let 510 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: me be clear, and everyone who's been working on this, 511 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: you know, for decades, will tell you it will not 512 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: be obvious overnight. Looking forward to traveling hopefully as my 513 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: first trip to the Northern Triangle, UM stopping in Mexican 514 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: and going bottom all of sometimes so representative. Given what 515 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: the Vice President had to say today, I've wanted to 516 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: ask you, number one, how did you assess her role 517 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: so far in terms of addressing this issue and what 518 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: would you like the administration to do visa the this 519 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: immigration crisis as you called it at this point? Well, 520 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: I think they need to go and to go to 521 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: the border and stuff they want to If she wants 522 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: to talk to Nicaraguan's and UH and Mexicans and folks 523 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: from the Northern Triangle, all she needs to do is 524 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: get to the border. There's plenty of them. She can 525 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: talk to a whole bunch of them UH to find 526 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: out what the root causes are. The root causes. Everybody 527 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: knows what the root causes are. But when you incentivize 528 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: people that are economically depressed, um, and that look to 529 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: America as a beacon of hope, when you incentivize that trip, 530 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna get more, and you're gonna get more, and 531 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna get more. And so yeah, it's uh, this 532 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: the root causes. They're going to take investment by the 533 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: United States. It's going to take uh incentivizing businesses to 534 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: relocate from maybe China and other places you know that 535 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: are far off and uh and have us uh start 536 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: to look at our region a little bit, uh, you know, 537 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: more in depth, and to pay more attention to our backyard, 538 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: which is Central and South America, because you know, the 539 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: living conditions than the economic conditions, you know, are right 540 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: for people who try to you know, better their lives. 541 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: I don't blame the migrants for for coming here. I 542 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: do blame the administration for incentivizing it and putting those 543 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: migrants at risk because there it is a risky proposition. Look, 544 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: we every single one of those migrants crossing over, they 545 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: have to pay the multinational cartels that are controlling the border. 546 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: So they have to pay between four and six thousand 547 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,719 Speaker 1: dollars per head to cross over. Young girls are at 548 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: risk because again those multinational cartels may be abusing them 549 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: and probably are abusing them. You have reports that girls 550 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: are being abused, etcetera by these multinational cartel members, and 551 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: so we are actually we are making them richer. We 552 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: we think that we estimate that those multinational cartels are 553 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: making work from five million to a billion dollars a 554 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: month on human trafficking. And that has all to do 555 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: with the incentives that the Biden administration is now given 556 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: to migrants to come on over and try to make 557 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: it into the United States representative. In addition to sitting 558 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: on homeland security, you also sit on transportation and infrastructure. So, 559 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: given this infrastructure bill that the Biden administration has put 560 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: forward and your work on that committee, what would you 561 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: like to see the bill look like? What could get 562 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: your support? You know, I'm assuming the two point two 563 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: is a bit high for you. What would you like 564 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: to see stripped out of that anything, anything that really 565 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: is not does have anything to do with what we 566 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: call infrastructure. Infrastructure to me roads, bridges, also, infrastructure means investing. UM. 567 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: Let's say in five G, investing in future technologies, transportation technologies, 568 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: make those things that are going to make America more 569 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: competitive in the world marketplace. That's what I call infrastructure. 570 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: And so if if the Biden administration would focus on that, 571 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: then I think they could you could go earner a 572 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: lot of support from the Repulicans because we all, we 573 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: all believe that we do need to invest in our infrastructure, 574 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: and we do have aging infrastructure that we need investments in, 575 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: investments in. But you know, when you talk about two 576 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: point three trillion dollars, that's two thousand three billion dollars, right, 577 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: and we just on on the heels of a two 578 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: trillion COVID relief package. We are you know, putting our 579 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: children and our grandchildren in debt, which which then diminishes 580 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: their ability in the future to invest in infrastructure and 581 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: the things that they need in order to make up 582 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: to you know, to have progress in American and ensure 583 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: that America, you know, is leading the world. And so 584 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: those are the problems that I haven't in Also, how 585 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: do you pay for it? Well, you're gonna pay for 586 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: it by preacing the corporate tax rate from twenty which 587 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: is higher than Communist China. And by the way, the 588 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: communist Chinese understand incentives and disincentive those companies in China 589 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: that are involved in international commerce. Their corporate tactualate is 590 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,959 Speaker 1: only so we're gonna put our American companies in a disadvantage. 591 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: You know. The Manufacturing Association here in the United States 592 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: believes that you know, this this package will cost you know, uh, 593 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: one million American jobs, and I think it's gonna cost 594 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: more than that, and so we're gonna lose jobs, gonna 595 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: lose competitives, competitiveness. Um. We're also taking away some of 596 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: the incentives for for energy production in the United States. 597 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: At the time we just became the leader and energy production, 598 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna lose that that lead now all 599 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: wrapped up in this package, and that we just can't 600 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: do it. I mean, you know, look, focus on infrastructure, 601 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 1: and I think you'll have a lot of Republicans you know, 602 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: backing you on that. Yeah, And what we're hearing is 603 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: that Republicans may be willing to do about a one 604 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: trillion dollar bill, um. You know, and as you mentioned, 605 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: addressing things like roads, bridges, those kinds of things. Even so, 606 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: how would you how would you pay for that. Are 607 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: you willing to raise the corporate tax rate at all? 608 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: From I don't think. I don't think that raising taxes 609 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: right now is the way to go on. So that it. Yeah, 610 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: we've got to we've got to look at different ways 611 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: to pay for that, all right. Obviously, you know there's 612 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: a trust fund, there's a gas tax, those things that 613 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: are already in place. Although the gas taxes is coming down, 614 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: we do need to make these investments. We have to 615 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: find a way to pay for it. But the two 616 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: point three trillion dollars is way too much. And and 617 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: maybe some Republicans want to go to a trillion. I'm 618 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: not sure we need to get all the way up 619 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: to a trillion. You know, we're throwing trillion around like 620 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: we used to throw billions around, and uh, and that's 621 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: being dangerous. So trillion again is a thousand billion dollars. 622 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: That's a lot of money, all right, A trillion dollars. 623 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: If you put an end to end, it goes ninety 624 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: two million miles. It's the distance from here to the sun, 625 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: all right. And so it's three times a distance from 626 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: here to Mars, and it takes a spacecraft something like 627 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: ten months to get to Mars. Imagine what a trillion 628 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: dollars movie is. That's that's what a trillion dollars is. 629 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: And and uh, you know it's far too much money. 630 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: And we've we've been spending way a way too much 631 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: money on things that really, um, you know, are not 632 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: what they are labeled as. The COVID relief was not 633 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: really a COVID relief bill, um. And this infrastructure bill 634 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: is not really an infrastructure bill. You know, there's got 635 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other things tied to it. Has 636 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: got nothing to do with infrastructure. Let's focus in on 637 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: things we really need to do and then find a 638 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: way to pay for it so we don't put our 639 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: children in Done. In the minute and a half I 640 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: have left, I just really wanted to ask you quickly. 641 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: News out of Cuba this week, ra will Cast stepping 642 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: down from power. Um. Do you think the Biden administration 643 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: should reopen dialogue with Cuba that was closed by the 644 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: previous president? Actually? No, because, first of all, if he's 645 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,919 Speaker 1: stepping down from power, don't don't really believe all much 646 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: much about that. He will step down from the power 647 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: only when he's unable to exercise power. Um. You know, 648 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: the Castro brothers, you know, are here for for for 649 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: some time, although you know Raoul is already in his 650 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: nineties and so I expect that he's trying to wind 651 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: it down. But he believed me when the final decisions 652 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: are going to be done by Raoul Castro even though 653 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: he has he's stepping down from power. And no, I 654 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: don't believe the Biden administrations should open up the negotiations. 655 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: Things are getting worse in Cuba. They're losing access to 656 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: credit and markets around the world because the failure to 657 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: pay anybody. Um, you know, they borrow money and they 658 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: never pay it back and now they basically I guess 659 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: we'll run out of countries to to do that to 660 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: even China and Ruggie telling I think you've gotta back. 661 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: So no, I don't think that now is not the time. 662 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: And you build best question. Representative Aimenz, thank you so 663 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: much for your time. I really appreciate it, and thank 664 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: you to all of my guests, including Frank Maisano and 665 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: Representative Himenez and Worgan arc Tagus. I am Genie, Sheann Bloomberg, 666 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: and this a Genie Chanzano, and this is Bloomberg m HM.