1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. There is an exceptionally 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: important Supreme Court decision this morning, and we are so 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: honored to bring you Nick Ackerman. I can't say enough 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: about his public service to the nation. He's been around 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: the block, like public service to the nation during Watergate, 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: and of course is many years in prosecution and law 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: with department from Harvard. I should say along the way, Nick, 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: we are honored you're with us today. The President must 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: be upset at this Supreme Court decision where they reject 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: President Trump on US aid foreign aid freeze. And what's 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: important here in a close vote is John Roberts and 12 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: Amy Cony Barrett joined the liberals against Alito, Thomas Gorsach 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: and Kevanaugh. Did you expect this partition of Trump conservatives 14 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: on the Court. 15 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: I'm kind of been expecting it. I mean, Amy Conan 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: Barrett and John Roberts have gone off on their own 17 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: on several items. I would have thought that Kavanaugh would 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: have gone along with this too. I mean, he does 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: have an opinion from the days he was on the 20 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: DC Circuit making it pretty clear that when you get 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: down to Article I powers, that is the power of 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 2: the purse that Congress has to disperse money separate from 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: the executive branch, which is a section two of the Constitution, 24 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: who has to carry out those orders from the Congress. 25 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: And this was a pretty significant decision because there are 26 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: a lot of decisions court cases out there now contesting 27 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: the idea that the Trump administration can simply not pay 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: certain monies, doesn't have to disburse the funds. But keep 29 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: in mind that this one really related to monies that 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: were already owed on certain contracts that have already been performed. 31 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: So the question is, how is this going to relate 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: to other situations where the contracts have not yet been 33 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: performed and they're holding back money. I kind of think 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: the principle is the same, but we'll have to see. 35 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: Greg Store at Bloomberg expert on this would go to 36 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: the complexities with you, I'll keep it simple. There seems 37 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: to be, whatever anybody's politics, a statement that the legislative 38 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: branch of the United States of America. 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: Is missing an action. 40 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: Is this the kind of court case that could be 41 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: a clarion call to Capitol Hill to get their act together? 42 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean this ought to make them realize that 43 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 2: they are just giving up their powers. They're seating their 44 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: powers to Donald Trump. They might as well not even 45 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: show up for work. What's the point if what they 46 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: wind up appropriating and what they wind up passing can 47 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: just be ignored by the president? Makes no sense? Yeah, 48 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: I think this ought to get some people off their duffs. 49 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: Does this essentially clear the way for lower courts to 50 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 3: continue proceedings in the dispute? 51 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: Sure? I mean this is the lower court will continue, 52 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: They'll be looking at other situations like this. I think 53 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: the litigans there will be bringing up other situations where 54 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: money is being withheld. But I think this kind of 55 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: gives the green light to the district courts all across 56 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: the country that are considering other aspects of this same 57 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: issue how to come out on this. 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: So what do you think next is in the timeline 59 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 3: as all of this unfolds. 60 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you, it's very hard to 61 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: be able to predict that there are now over ninety 62 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: five cases lawsuits that have been filed across the United 63 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: States that relate to the firings of government employees that 64 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: relate to monies being withheld. It is very hard without 65 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: a giant scorecard and to know exactly where every case 66 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: is at any particular time to know what's going to 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: be next. All I can say is buckle your seat belts. 68 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: Things are going to be happening, and they're going to 69 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: be happening more quickly over the next couple of weeks. 70 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: I brought Wizard White up the other day, the wonderful 71 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: gentleman from Colorado, acclaimed athlete, and he was supposed to 72 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: be this kind of judge and he wasn't. And then 73 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: there's third grade Marshall, who I think we could all 74 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: say was predicted to be a certain kind of judge 75 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: and he was. And then Nick Eckermann. It gets a 76 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: little confusing. John Paul Stevens, maybe there's a mystery there 77 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: as well. Certainly the great Moderate Anthony Kennedy. Can you 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: identify the the complexities of this nine seat Supreme Court? 79 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: Can you? 80 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: Can you do that? Or is it as stark as 81 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: the media makes it. 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: I don't think it's as stark as the media makes it. 83 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: First of all, you've got John Roberts, who is a traditionalist, 84 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: and I think if there's anybody who's going to stand 85 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: up for the difference between Article one and Article two 86 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: in the US Constitution. He's the guy to do it, 87 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: Amy Conan Barrett. Turns out she is a very thoughtful 88 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: independent justice. She is not going the way of the 89 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: others on many issues. I thought on some things. For example, 90 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: that issue that came up during the summer, well this 91 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: couple issues. One on on the immunity decision, she took 92 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: a different tact in terms of holding she would have 93 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 2: held that certain evidence would be admissible even if the 94 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: president had immunity in certain situations, which would have contradicted 95 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: on a good part of the Roberts opinion. She also 96 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 2: came out on that obstruction charge that was used with 97 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: the January sixth defendants, and was one of the few 98 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: people on that court, including even the liberals, that recognize 99 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 2: that obstruction has been around for a long time. It 100 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: started out with the courts, but this was something long 101 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: in the coming able to actually broaden it to include Congress. 102 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: So she's an independent thinker. I think she's one of 103 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: those people that will stand up for the Constitution. 104 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: I think this needs to be said just meant because 105 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: we lose track Chief Justice John Roberts nineteen and a 106 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: half years and the Supreme Court Alito, the conservative nineteen 107 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: years and the Supreme Court. I'd stunded at the statistic 108 00:06:54,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Soda Mayor and Kagan already fifteen years and fourteen years. 109 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: Time flies by right. 110 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: Alido and Robert's both appointed by former President George W. Bush. There, 111 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: I was actually going through looking at this brief that 112 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 3: was filed on Friday from the Supreme Court, and they 113 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: were talking about it even if the government won. The 114 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: brief said the administration would not be able to proceed 115 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: with the funding freeze. Why would that be, Well. 116 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: There's no good reason for that. They can unfreeze that. 117 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: Of course they can do that. It may take a 118 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 2: couple of days more than may be some bureaucratic loopholes 119 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: to jump through, but no, they can do that a 120 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: couple of phone calls. I mean that is absolutely insane. 121 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I look, Nick, and to get one more questionnaire, 122 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: we've got to go back to the markets as well. 123 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: What's in store like every legal action that we report 124 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: that Emery Harder and Joe Matthew and Katie Lanes talk about. 125 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: Do you just assume they're all going to end up 126 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court? 127 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, I think the big items will this is this 128 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: is a huge prince constitutional principle about who has the 129 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: power of the purse and what the executive's job is 130 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: is basically to faithfully execute the laws that Congress passes. 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 2: So yes, I mean, I think you're going to find 132 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: certain matters going to the Supreme Court like this that 133 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: will give some clarity and push back. But I think 134 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: there's going to be a real tendency here with so 135 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: many lawsuits out there and sit back, let the lower 136 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: courts deal with these issues. 137 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: Nick Eckerman, thank you so much for giving us perspective today, 138 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: Nick Eckerman, they're in a Supreme Court decision of five 139 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: to four against the President of the United States.