1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: The Insular Cases are a series of rulings from the 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds establishing that people in US territories don't have 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: the same constitutional rights as other Americans. The cases are 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: almost universally described as racist, even by some Supreme Court 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: justices in a concurrence. In a case last year, Justice 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: Neil Gorstch called for the Insular cases to be overruled, 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: describing them as shameful and based on ugly racial stereotypes. 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: If that's true, why shouldn't we just admit that cases 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: were incorrectly decided? Fast forward to this Monday. Civil rights 11 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: groups urged the Court to take a case involving birthright 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: citizenship that could undo the Insular cases, but the Justices 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: turned the case down. My guest is and Lofasso, a 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: constitutional a professor at the West Virginia University College of Law, 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: and tell us about this challenge brought by three Samoans 16 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: who live in Utah. So basically, the three Samoans and 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: a nonprofit organization of saying that they're entitled to birthright 18 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: citizenizenship by virtue of the fact that they were born 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: in Samoa. After the Civil War, the Fourteenth made clear 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: under the Citizenship Clause that anyone born in the United 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: States is entitled to birthright citizenship and was really initially 22 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: intended to make sure that former slaves were absolutely citizens. 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: It is til to all the rights of a citizen. 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: Then what happened was after the Spanish American War, the 25 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: United States acquired territories that overseas, and there were series 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: of cases at the turn of the century. Some say six, 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: some say nine, some say more than that, but in 28 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: any event, a small series of cases that stated that 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 1: this was not a seraily the case and that these 30 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: overseas territories that were acquired specifically in the Spanish American War, 31 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: the United States was allowed to govern them as colonies. 32 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: And this is what many people believe was reading the 33 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: power to colonize into the United States Constitution. So they 34 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: want these cases to be overturned. So it's clear that 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: the United States doesn't have this power to colonize the 36 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: fact that they are not US citizens, meaning they can't vote, 37 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: they can't serve on juries or run for state or 38 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: federal office. So these insular cases, Conservative Justice Neil Gorcich 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: and liberal Justice Sonya Soto Mayor have both expressed concern 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: about the Insular cases remaining on the books, but neither 41 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: of them dissented here. Well, there's a couple of things 42 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: going on here. They may not have had the votes 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: to overturn the precedent, so why even go there. There 44 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: were also a lot of problems with this case. Samoa 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: is very unique. It wasn't part of the original Insular cases. 46 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: This case can be decided without referring to them, so 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: they could decide this case purely on constitutional grounds and 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: not go to be insular cases. There is no split 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: in the circuits on this issue either. Six courts have 50 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: looked at it, all six have agreed. The second of all, 51 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: when the Supreme Court takes a case, it doesn't just 52 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: take it because it thinks it's an important federal issue. 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: There's what's a good vehicle for deciding this case. That 54 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: means there aren't any extraneous issues that could prevent them 55 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: from coming into a conclusion because they don't even have 56 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: to look at the Insular cases to decide this. So 57 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: that's why it would be considered a poor vehicle for 58 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: revisiting the Insular cases. Politics are also involved here. Might 59 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: that be another reason the court didn't take this case. Currently, 60 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: they're negotiatings between the United States and Samoa about how 61 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: to progress preserve the Samoan way of life, which I 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: hope I'm not mispronouncing this, but it's called fa Samoa, 63 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,839 Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of concern among the Samoans 64 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: and the government of Samoa that a birthright citizenship might 65 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: disrupt their way of life. The Samoan people right now 66 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: and have not reached a consensus as to whether or 67 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: not they want to have citizenship. And there's a streamlined 68 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: process for people born in Samoa to become US citizens, 69 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: So that means that many Samoans might say, well, we 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: still don't want the birthright. If an individual wants to 71 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: become a U. S. Citizen, they can, It will be 72 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: very easy. And I know many of us in the 73 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: United States might sing, why would anyone not want the 74 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: American citizens But some people don't, so I think that's 75 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: also important to respect, and that was one of the 76 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: points that the brief for the Samoan government made, is like, 77 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: why would we want this court by judicial fiat to 78 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: impose U. S citizenship on every person born in Samoa, 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: where right now there is not a political consensus, so 80 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: it would almost be colonization in a different way by 81 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: judicial fiat saying now you are automatically U s citizens, 82 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: and so there is this political dimension that perhaps the 83 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: Court didn't want to wait in on. Everything I've read 84 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: about the Insular cases says racist. Course, it said ugly 85 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: racial stereotypes. I mean, some of the language in some 86 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: of those cases is sort of astonishing. Isn't that something 87 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court should want to overrule? Yeah, it should, 88 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: But we don't want the Supreme Court to overreach on 89 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: an issue because even though in this case it might 90 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: be a good thing, we don't want them to then 91 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: feel emboldened to overreach. I mean, especially they might be 92 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: gun shy after what happened last term where they didn't 93 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: have to reach Row versus way at all. I mean 94 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: Justice Roberts made that clears concurrence in Daubs, and yet 95 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: they overturned Roversus Wade. They got tremendous criticism. Many people 96 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: are now more than ever, are saying that the Court 97 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: is illegitimate. So it's really important for the courts to 98 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: take a more conservative. By conservative, I don't mean politically conservative. 99 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: But what I mean by that approach is a more 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: cautious approach. If they're going to undo precedent, they have 101 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: to do it when the time is right, when it's 102 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: squarely presented. Otherwise, even if it's it's welcome at that moment, 103 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: it allows them to do it in other times when 104 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: it's much more unpopular. For example, in Daubed, the co 105 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: counsel in the case said, the Supreme Court's refusal to 106 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: reconsider the insular cases today continues to reflect that equal 107 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: justice under law does not mean the same for the 108 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: three point six million residents of US territories as it 109 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: does for everyone else. Does he have a point? Yeah, 110 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean he has a point, and that's an important point. 111 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: And the underlying problem of colonization is a significant point, 112 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: especially right now with the death of the Queen of England, 113 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: that issue became very newsworthy and the whole history of 114 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: colonization is an ugly history. So yeah, that's a really 115 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: important substantive point. But and I'm not necessarily defending what 116 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court did. What I'm saying is why I 117 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: think they did what they did, which is this idea 118 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: that the case has to be presented to them. Let 119 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: me give you a ridiculous example. If this case we're 120 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: about something that has to do with corporate law and 121 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: nothing to do with territories, you wouldn't want them to say, oh, 122 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: and by the way, the insular cases need to be 123 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: overruled here. It's obviously is much more related to the 124 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: insular cases. They could reach it, but my guess is 125 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: the charitable guess is that they wanted it to be 126 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: squarely presented. The other problem is they may not have 127 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: the votes. This is where I'm concerned. What if gors 128 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: which wants to overrule it, thought mayor maybe the other 129 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: two liberals, but the others don't, so they only have 130 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: four votes. And if that's the case, it would be 131 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: worse to then reaffirm those cases. So that could be 132 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: the other one. Another thing is that they knew they 133 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: were going to reaffirm the lower court's decision here, but 134 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: they were going to avoid this issue anyway because they 135 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: didn't have the votes on this particular issue. So I 136 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: think that's much more likely. Even though yeah, sure, there 137 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: is definitely a point that these are racist cases. There's 138 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: a lot of problems with these cases, and we need 139 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: to come to a reckoning with our past and our 140 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: treatment of different areas that we have so called, and 141 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: this world is even used in some of the briefs conquered, 142 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: so I think that is important. The ten Circuit said 143 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: it was for Congress to bestow the privilege of US citizenships. Yeah, 144 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: that's the precedent right now, is that this would be 145 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: Congress's job up and certainly different treaties. I've said that, 146 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: But the Samoan people under principles of self determination right 147 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: now and have not reached a consensus as to whether 148 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: or not they want to have citizenship. You know, we're 149 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: just going to have to wait till another day to 150 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: see what they do about the insular cases, which obviously 151 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: are are problematic, but there were also problems that any 152 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: way the Supreme Court decided in this case could have 153 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: been considered racist as well. So it's a very complicated 154 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: area and this was not called a clean vehicle to 155 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: decide these cases. Thanks so much. And that's Professor and 156 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: Lo Faso of the West Virginia University College of Law. 157 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: Rishi Sunac will be Britain's next Prime Minister. The forty 158 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: two year old member of the Conservative Party will be 159 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: sworn in as the country's third leader in less than 160 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: two months, and it's first ever prime minister of color. 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: It is the greatest privilege of my life to be 162 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: able to serve the party I love and give back 163 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: to the country I owe so much too. Joining me 164 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: to discuss a new prime minister is Ambassador Robert Holliman, 165 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: the President and CEO of Crowell and Mooring International. He 166 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: served as Deputy United States Trade Representative from two thousand 167 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: fourteen to two thousand seventeen. So what's your take on 168 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: Rishi Sunac as the new prime minister? This is very 169 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: much a UK decision to make, and the people who 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: are in the rooms as they're making the decisions are 171 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: clearly the you know, the best place to understand from 172 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: how Rishi Sunac will serve as the Prime Minister. With 173 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: that said, I think we can see kind of looking 174 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: across the Atlantic from the US, um we can see 175 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: that there's a significant need for the UK to reassert 176 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: a level and show the world a level of stability. 177 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: Clearly that can often be best accomplished with somebody who 178 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: is a known player, but who is um as they 179 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: may determine at the time carrying less of the baggage 180 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: that some of the other potential contenders would have. UM 181 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: And so I think in that sense, you know, he's 182 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: a known player, he's understood. How this affects domestic politics 183 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: within the UK or something I wouldn't be in a 184 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: position to um to comment on, but how this affects 185 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: the UK standing with the US or with the rest 186 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: of the world community. I think the US will be 187 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: um um pleased to see somebody come into place with 188 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: the hope that he will have a um you know, 189 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: a less rocky tenure than his immediate predecessor. I mean, 190 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: one of the things I think is a hallmark and 191 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: a strength of the U s UK relationship is that 192 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: it can, you know, weather a variety of storms and 193 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: turbulence through elections, whether their party elections or national elections 194 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: in either country. So I think we'll move on well 195 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: with mercy soon act. So he said today, there's no 196 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: doubt we face profound economic challenges. Can you describe some 197 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: of the economic challenges that the UK is facing right now? Sure? 198 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: I think they're really threefold. Um. One, there's the purely 199 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: domestic UK economic challenges with rising inflation rates, with recent 200 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: needs for intervention into the British economy UM, and UM 201 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: the high costs that are still associated with them, not 202 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: only the you know, the lingering aftermaths of the COVID pandemic, 203 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: but also the lingering economic challenges as a result of 204 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: Bruxit UM. So they have significant domestic challenges that are 205 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: creating concerns not only in the marketplace within the UK, 206 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: but also on the part of UK citizens. I think 207 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: the second part of it is how does the UK 208 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: UM hold up in the light of the rest of 209 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: the world. UM. You know, they're the fifth largest economy 210 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: in the world, so they matter enormously in terms of 211 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: the global economy. They matter significantly in terms of their 212 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: economic and political stability UM. And simply for the US 213 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: and the UK. They are a key ally of the 214 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,479 Speaker 1: United States, not only on economics but on national security 215 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: and defense UH and supportive democracy, so they play an 216 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: outsize role UM and any lack of stability economically or 217 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: politically in the UK is certainly a source of concern 218 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: for the U. US. And finally, I think in a 219 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: world where we see an increasing number of authoritarian regimes 220 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: that are gaining power, UM, the ability to have a 221 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: democratic regime in the UK. UH in a stable regime 222 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: is important force of the global discussions that are happening. 223 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about small p politics discussions, but I'm 224 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: just talking about having a strong voice by which the UK, 225 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: as such a large economy can speak up on the 226 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: world stage on issues that go beyond the borders of 227 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: the UK. So those are the key issues that I 228 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: see at play. I think the most important ones that 229 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: the UK is working on now are on their domestic ones. 230 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: How do they restore confidence at home? How do they 231 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: stabilize their economy, how do they manage to deal with 232 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: some of the inflation issues and try to regain in 233 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: the growth they're looking for. Um. The others are certainly 234 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: hugely important, certainly for the US. But I suspect what 235 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: the UK is focused on right now is how do 236 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: they write the ship at home um and get get 237 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: the kind of stability they need. Say, trade relationships now, well, 238 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: it's substantial, and you know the good news I think 239 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: it's it's say, it's sort of it's largely unaffected by 240 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: any of the recent political turmoils within the UK. UM. 241 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's a large trade relationship the US is 242 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: accounts for nearly twenty of all trade by the UK, 243 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: so we are a enormous trading partner for the UK. 244 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: The US is obviously a much larger economy, but UK 245 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: trade is five of total US trade, so this is 246 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: an extremely important relationship. I think another factor that really 247 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: underscores the importance of it is around foreign direct investment, 248 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: which is another key element of trade, and the UK 249 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: is the number one destination by country or foreign investment 250 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: coming out of the US UM it's nearly a trillion 251 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: dollars as last year, and the UK is investing merely 252 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: half a trillion dollars in the US in UM, so 253 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: as a source of both bilateral trade but a source 254 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: of the investments in each country is making the other. 255 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: It's enormous and the good news is that that continues 256 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: to be a strong trade relationship and a source of 257 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: economic stability between our two countries. I think the question though, 258 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: that that poses is does that relationship between the US 259 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: and the UK get better and how has the Brexit 260 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: vote and the aftermath of Brexit affected the US and 261 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: the UK, And there I think the jury is still 262 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: out uh And in fact I would say that the 263 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: UK has not obtained even more favorable benefits in trade 264 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: with the U S or other countries that they had 265 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: hoped to obtain following their departure from the EU. The 266 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: UK and the US were negotiating a bilateral free trade 267 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: agreement during the Trump administration. What happened to that? Where 268 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: does that stand? That bilateral free trade agreement really fell 269 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: by the wayside, largely as a result of domestic priorities 270 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: within the United States. Liz Trust had been in the 271 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: Trade Secretary War Administer for the UK when those discussions started, 272 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: so certainly she had a history of working on those discussions. Um, 273 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: I think what happened in the United States it was 274 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: really twofold. One is that the Trade Promotion authority that 275 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: the US Congress had in place that would enable, whether 276 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: it was the Trump administration or the Biden administration, to 277 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: negotiate new free trade agreements on favorable terms, that authority 278 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: expired in the middle of So in the absence of 279 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: that authority, it is difficult for any White House to 280 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: negotiate a free trade agreement, whether with the UK or 281 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: any other country. And those really are the trade promotion 282 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: authority practices that Congress imposes on itself To say that 283 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: if a trade agreement is brought back to them, that 284 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: they will approve it on an expedited approve or disapprove 285 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: or does that they retain the ability to disapprove, but 286 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: that they would act on it on a expedited time frame, 287 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: and that they would consider it as a totality of 288 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: an agreement not subject to the amendment process which Congress 289 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: uses for most typical legislation. So that Trade Promotion Authority 290 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: was in place. It was put in place when I 291 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: was in office in the Obama administration, but expired in 292 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: the middle of last year, and so without Trade Promotion Authority, 293 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: it becomes very difficult for a White House to undertake 294 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: a new free trade negotiation um with confidence that they 295 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: could successfully conclude it and then actually get it approved 296 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: by Congress in the implementing legislation. So that expired. I 297 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: think the second thing is that the Biden administration has 298 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: really been focused on all series of domestic priorities, whether 299 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: it was the Inflation Reduction Act or UM, it was 300 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill, or it was focused on clean energy 301 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: other health matters, and so it really has not been 302 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: a top of mind priority for the Biden administration to 303 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: negotiate the agreement, particularly in the absence of trade Promotion authority, 304 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: So it's really um foundered. Uh, and it's sort of 305 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: on a side track now, largely because of US domestic issues. 306 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: I think the question I supposed that, you know, could 307 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,719 Speaker 1: it be revived in the next Congress, you know, that 308 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: remains to be seen. But for the moment, the EU 309 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: and the UK both have relationships with the US that 310 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: are substantially similar. The UK doesn't have anything less favorable 311 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: than the EU has with the US, nor does the 312 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: UK have anything more favorable. We don't have a comprehensive 313 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: trade agreement with the EU and the UK. There are 314 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: a series of smaller agreements that are in place that 315 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: were ranged from things like pharmaceuticals to certain types of 316 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: machines to mined spirits. Those we've negotiated with the UK, 317 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: just like we have with the EU. So what would 318 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: it take for the US to negotiate a trade agreement 319 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: with the UK? I think it would take three things. One, 320 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: it would take the US Congress deciding that they wanted 321 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: to adopt a narrow trade Promotion authority that would say 322 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: that the US could negotiate a free trade agreement with 323 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: the UK and the UK alone, and that would be 324 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: the easiest, most surgical way in which the Congress could 325 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: act to say that they supported a trade agreement with 326 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: the UK, even if they weren't willing to say, as 327 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: they're not that they would support a whole series of 328 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: other free trade agreements with other countries. Secondly, it would 329 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: have to be viewed in the economic interest by both 330 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: the US and the UK, but particularly the US to 331 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: take that on at a time of the coming year 332 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: where we're certainly going to have a series of economic challenges, 333 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: including inflation in both markets. And Three, I think it 334 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: would have take a meeting of the minds that involved 335 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: not only the business community, but labor community and NGOs 336 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: to say that there was something about the long term 337 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: special relationship between the UK and the US that needed 338 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: to be coupled with a special trade agreement. It's entirely possible. 339 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it's probable. Thanks for being on the show. 340 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: That's Ambassador Robert Hollingman of Crowland Mooring, and that's it 341 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. We member. 342 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: You can always get the latest legal news on our 343 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 344 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: and at www dot bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, Slash Law, 345 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every 346 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: week night at ten BM Wall Street Time. I'm June 347 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg