1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld, my guest today has written 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: an extraordinary new book, The American Experiment. Dialogs on a Deree. 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: He details his conversations with American icons and historians on 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: the ever evolving American Experiment in democracy, culture, innovation, and ideas. 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: The American Experiment explores the diverse makeup of our country's 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: DNA through interviews with Pulitzer Prize winning historians, diplomats, music legends, 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: and sports giants. Through these enlightening conversations, the American Experiment 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: brings the American spirit of life, revealing the setbacks, suffering, resilience, ingenuity, 9 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: and social movements that continue to shape our vision of 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: what America is and what it can be. In an 11 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: era of extraordinary global challenges, The American Experiment is a 12 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: powerful and inspirational reminder of this country's promise. I'm really 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, David Rubinstein. He is the 14 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling author of How to Lead and 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: The American Story. He is co founder and co executive 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: chairman of the Carlisle Group, a global private equity firm. 17 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: He's also the chairman of the board of Trustees of 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and 19 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: the Council and Foreign Relations. He is an original signer 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: of the Giving Pledge and the host of the David 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: Rubinstein Show on Blueberg TV and PBS. I'm really pleased, 22 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: David you take the time to chat about your new book, 23 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: but before that, because I think this shapes a lot 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: of what you do, would you share with our listeners 25 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: your personal story of growing up in Baltimore as an 26 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: only child. Understand, your dad was a US Postal Service 27 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: worker and your mom was a homemaker. You came from 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: humble beginnings, as many Americans do. What occurred early in 29 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: your life that you think really shape you and shaped 30 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: who you became. Well, of course, I was an only child. 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: My father worked in the post office. So if you're 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: an only child, your parents put a lot of attention 33 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 1: in you. And I was somebody that gave unconditional love too, 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: so that was very helpful. But I believe in the 35 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: American dream. I read a lot about America, and I 36 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: loved reading, and I read about the American dream and 37 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: I thought, I actually believe, naively or not, that if 38 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: you worked hard, you could rise up in this society. 39 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: And so I thought if I got a good education, 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: I could actually make something over myself. My parents had 41 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: not graduated from high school, and so I wanted to 42 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: do more than they had done, and they wanted to 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: encourage me. So I got lucky in my life and 44 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: got to the point where I could give away the 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: bulk of my money, which I'm now doing as a 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: signer of the Giving Pledge. That was a lot of 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: luck and fortuitous things happened along the way. Now, you 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: ended up at the University of Chicago Law School, which 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: is a remarkable institution in its own right. Did you 50 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: find that challenging thing to go from Baltimore to Chicago. Well, 51 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: I did my undergraduate work at Duke, and I thought 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: that was okay, and later became the chairman of the 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: board of Duke. At the time I was a Duke, 54 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: nobody probably knew I was in the class. I was 55 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: so undistinguished. So when I became the chairman of the board, 56 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: probably people didn't believe I was actually in the class 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: that I said I was in. I just wasn't that 58 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: well known. I went to law school because I got 59 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: a full scholarship, and I tried to repay them by 60 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: now I give sixty scholarships a year to Universe Chicago 61 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: Law School students, and this year there are nine students 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: from the Universe Chicago Law School who are Supreme Court clerks, 63 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the most you've ever had. And so I'm very proud 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: of what the law school has done. And I'm now 65 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: very involved in the University of Chicago on the board 66 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: of Trustees. But at the time you go to law 67 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: school you got a PhD. You never know if you're 68 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: going to be competitive or not. And so I got lucky. 69 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: I did okay, But there were people are a lot 70 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: smarter than me. And you probably know some of the 71 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: people in my class. Frank Easterbrook was in my class, 72 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: pretty smart guy. Doug Ginsburg was in my class, another 73 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: pretty smart guy. So we had some pretty impressed people 74 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: in that class. I wasn't one of them. Well, but 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: when you graduating you must have been doing all right 76 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: because you end up at a major law firm in 77 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: New York. I did okay, but I wasn't a Supreme 78 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: Court clerk. The people that were the Supreme Court clerks 79 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: just kind of mentioned some of them. But anyway, I 80 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: did okay. But look, I didn't really love the practice 81 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: of law, and I wasn't that good at it, to 82 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: be honest. I was very interested in politics and in government, 83 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: so I ultimately came to Washington to get involved in 84 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: government and politics. It didn't work out that well for 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: the country because I managed to get in place in 86 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 1: a fifteen percent when I was working in the Carter 87 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: White House, so nobody's invited me back to government since then. 88 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: As a Georgian, I had known Jimmy when he was governor, 89 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: and then I became a member of Congress halfway through 90 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: his term. I mean, he was very idea oriented, very innovative, 91 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: very aggressive, much more than people would have thought just 92 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: watching him smile and shake hands. Then you managed to 93 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: end up being the Deputy Domestic Policy Assistant at a 94 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: time when they were wrestling with a lot of really 95 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: big problems. First of all, I just for everybody who's 96 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: fascinated with help the city works. How did you end 97 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: up with that kind of a White House job at 98 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: that stage in your life. Well, white House staffs are 99 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: usually filled with people that are not qualified for the jobs, 100 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: and I was in that category probably, But I worked 101 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: in the campaign. I went down and worked in the 102 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: campaign just for three months. In the general election, my 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: boss was Stewart Eisenstadt, and he became the domestic advisor 104 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: and I became his deputy. So I had never met 105 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter until two weeks into the White House because 106 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: in the campaign he was out campaigning, I was in Atlanta. 107 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: I never met him, and then I never met him 108 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: in the transition. I'm two weeks into White House before 109 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: I actually met him, So I didn't really know Jimmy Carter. 110 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: And then I just worked hard on long hours and 111 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: I got to know the policy positions. But you know, 112 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: in hindsight, two very good books about Jimmy Carter come 113 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: out recently. You're three, really. Stewart Isisenstad wrote one, and 114 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: then Kay Birdie wrote another one, and then another one's 115 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: written as well with Carter's cooperation, and these books point 116 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: out how many things tried to get done. He didn't 117 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: get them all done, But even what he did get 118 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: done was a lot compared to what presidents get today today. 119 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: If a president getting one major thing through in four years, 120 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: we think that they've done a great job. Carter did 121 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: a lot of things, some of which you did not like, 122 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: and some of which a lot of Americans didn't like 123 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: he didn't get re elected, but he'd actually tried, and 124 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: he got a lot of things done, relatively speaking compared 125 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: to what we have today. And as you know, Carter's 126 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: a very smart person. You know he was. I mean 127 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: I watched him emerge from being a state senator to 128 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: winning the governorship where he was the underdog and decisively 129 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: beat the former governor, Carl Sanders, who everybody thought was 130 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: a big deal. And the famous moment when all the 131 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: guys came through in nineteen seventy two and came to 132 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: the governor's mansion spent the night, and after they'd met 133 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: all of me turn and said, you know, if they 134 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: can run for president, why can't I run for president? 135 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: And the famous Atlanta Constitution headline, Jimmy Carter is running 136 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: for what? And he was a great politician. You can 137 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: argue about the presidency and unit would distriue to somethingston 138 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: but you watch him take on Teddy Kennedy in nineteen 139 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: eighty when people thought the Carter was a flat on 140 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: his back, and by the time he got done, Kennedy 141 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: was dramatically smaller than he had started. And Carter was 142 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee. He was I would say that had 143 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Kennedy not run, I think Carter had a better chance 144 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: to win an election. Most presidents that have primary runs 145 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: against them that are serious don't get re elected. Gerald 146 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: Ford Ronald Reagan round against him in seventy six, and 147 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: George Herbert Walker Bush didn't get re elected. He had 148 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: a primary challenge as well. You know, quite well Carter 149 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: had some real strength. He was not able to prioritize 150 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: as well as he should have, and he wanted to 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: do so many things, and he couldn't get everything done. 152 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: And even though he had a large Democratic Congress, he 153 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: couldn't get everything done. But like in your case, Carter 154 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: looked around and said, these guys, aren't he smarter than me? 155 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: I could be President United States? Well, you looked around 156 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: and he said, these guys aren't smarter than me. I 157 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: could be Speaker of the House. Those things sometimes happened. 158 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: But you know, I've watched Jimmy at the time, and 159 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: I always thought that had he done slightly less, that 160 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: he would have dramatically increased the likelihood of getting reelected. 161 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: I agree with you, he didn't prioritize. We would say 162 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: to him, what are you willing to do? When he 163 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: would give us twenty things and he didn't prioritize. He 164 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: wanted to get everything done. He was like a kid 165 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: in a candy story. He just wanted everything, and had 166 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: he prioritized, it would have been better, I think for sure, 167 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: because when you don't get everything, it looks like a failure. 168 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: If you don't get every bill that you want done, 169 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: it's a failure, even though we got a lot of 170 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: bills done. So in hindsight, I would say history will 171 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: record him as having been a great ex president and 172 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: not a great president, and that's the way history is 173 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: probably gonna be written. You're a former history professor yourself, 174 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: and I suspect you would probably agree with that assessment. Yeah, 175 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: although I think at times, I mean, Carlo got trapped 176 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: into a world where the inflation rate and the whole 177 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: problem of bringing the US economy under control, and the 178 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: pressure that Volker, the showman, the FED was under from 179 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: leaders around the world to get the inflation under control, 180 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: no matter what had cost no unemployment. Those things were 181 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: in many ways beyond his immediate ability to control. And 182 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: you look at something like the Camp David Accords, which 183 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: was the first great breakthrough with Beagan and Sadat in 184 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: getting Israel to be able to live with a neighbor 185 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: that that was a pretty darn historic achievement in his part. 186 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: It was in a singular feet of negotiation. We haven't 187 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: seen the likes of that really quite some time. But 188 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: it didn't help him politically. The Jewish Committee really really 189 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: did not like Jimmy Carter, and as you probably now 190 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: in Georgia, when his grandson ran for governor, he was 191 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: hurt by the fact that he was Jimmy Carter's grandson 192 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: because the Jewish Committee really still does not like Jimmy Carter. 193 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: It's one of those things, as you point out, you know, 194 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: every politician has strengths and weaknesses, and sometimes the weaknesses 195 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: stay around longer than the strengths. But now you leave there, 196 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: you end up in nineteen eighty seven co founding the 197 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: Carlisle Group, which has turned out to be enormously successful, 198 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: managing something like two hundred and sixty billion dollars with 199 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: twenty nine offices around the world. I mean, you've gone 200 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: from studying law, working in a New York law firm, 201 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: being inside the White House, and now here you are 202 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: out there, I assume going around convincing people to invest in, 203 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: to trust Carlisle to do a good job. Wasn't that 204 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: an enormous leap? It was. In hindsight, I looked back 205 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: and say, what were you thinking. You're crazy. You couldn't 206 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: have done that. But when we started the firm, it 207 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: was only going to be five or six people. And 208 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: then I came up with the idea of basically building 209 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: a multidiscipline firm, a buyout firm, venture firm, growth capital, 210 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: real estate, and then globalizing. And I spent much of 211 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: thirty years running around the world raising money and trying 212 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: to recruit people to do it. So, in hindsight, we 213 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: made a lot of mistakes. We should be bigger than 214 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: anybody in the world. We had some ideas before Blacks 215 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: Don't even had its ideas about some of the things, 216 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: but we didn't execute it as well as I would 217 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: have liked. On the other hand, we've built one of 218 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: the larger private equity firms and it's produced a lot 219 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: of wealth for investors and for me, and I'm in 220 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: the process of trying to give away most of that now. Yeah, 221 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: can you explain giving pledge destrom in a way? It's 222 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: a pretty remarkable thing to be an individual who was 223 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: wealthy enough to belong to the giving pledge? But what 224 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: was your thinking on it? And I mean you signed 225 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: it about the time Bill and Melinda Gates founded it. Yes, 226 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: what it was was Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren 227 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: Buffett came up with the idea that people that have 228 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: a billion dollars of net worth or more should give 229 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: away during their lifetime or upon their death, fifty percent 230 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: of their net worth. And their idea was that people 231 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: weren't doing a lot in philanthropy. And somebody who's a 232 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: native of your state, Ted Turner, really deserves a lot 233 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: of credit for this because Ted Turner said people aren't 234 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: giving away enough money. He pledged a billion dollars to 235 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: the UN at the time when he was a wealthier 236 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: than he turned out later to be, but he honored 237 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: his commitment, and he kind of chastised a lot of 238 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: wealthy people who like Bill Gates and others, for not 239 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: doing much more in philanthropy. Anyway, the idea came from 240 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: a many people, including Ted Turner, that people should give 241 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: away more money, and the idea was that we would 242 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: get people in the United States to do it, and 243 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: then ultimately around the world. Now they're about two hundred 244 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: and thirty people that have signed. Most of them are 245 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: in the United States, and most of them have done 246 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: a lot of good things in philanthropy. That I like 247 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: to remind people is that philanthropy is derived from an 248 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: ancient Greek word that means loving humanity. It doesn't mean 249 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: rich people writing checks. So you can love humanity without 250 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: being a billionaire. Do something in your own community, give 251 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: your time, your energy, your ideas. Your time is most 252 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: valuable thing. If you're a billionaire and you have a 253 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: lot of money, give away your time and energy as well. 254 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: If you give away money, fine, but do something useful 255 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: with your money. Don't just let it pile up so 256 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: you can say how rich you are. Well in a sense, 257 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: I guess. Andrew Carnegie was one of the early examples. 258 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: I think he funded twenty three hundred libraries, that's correct. 259 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: It's just remarkable. Andrew Carnegie wrote that those who die 260 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: with a lot of money have made a big mistake. 261 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: Now he actually died with some money, but it was 262 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: all given the philanthropic things. He has no heirs who 263 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: have any money to speak up. Andrew Carnegie was one 264 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: of the great philanthropists. Now Johnny Rockefeller was as well, 265 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: but I think philanthropy is a very important part of 266 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: American society. In some years, we really weren't doing as much, 267 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: and I think the Giving Pledge was a kickstart that 268 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: kind of get people to do more, and not just billionaires, 269 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: but everybody. You know. One of the things I find 270 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: as a Once upon a Time history teacher I find 271 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: fascinating about your career is you ended up being a 272 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: collector of some really remarkable things, a very rare copy 273 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: of the Magnet Carta, the Declaration Independence, the Constitution, the 274 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: Bill of Rights, the Emancipatient Proclamation, the Thirteenth Amendment, the 275 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: first map of the United States, and the first book 276 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: print of the United States. And you've loaned most of 277 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: those to the US government as long term loans. But 278 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: how did you manage to assemble that quality of material? Well, 279 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: it was my happenstance. When the Magna Carta came versale 280 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: was being sold by Ross Barrel through Southby's, I just 281 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: said we should keep the only copy the United States 282 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: here in the United States because it was the inspiration 283 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: for the Declaration of Independence, among other things. So I 284 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: warned the auction, and I put it on permanent loan 285 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: to the National Archives, and I started buying rare copies 286 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: of the Declaration Independence and rare copies of the other 287 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: documents you mentioned. But the most important thing is everything 288 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: is on display because I want people to see these things. 289 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: And the reason is this, if you see an original 290 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence, you're more likely to remember it 291 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: and learn more about it. And as you know as 292 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: a former history professor, we don't really teach history very 293 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: much anymore in the United States, and we have terrible 294 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: scores on history and civics education. For example, if you 295 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: want to be a naturalized American citizen now you have 296 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: to take a citizenship test. Ninety one percent of people 297 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: pass it. It's basically a history tests and the civics 298 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: test things like who's the first President United States? But 299 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: the same test was given to people in all fifty 300 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: states who are native born, and only one state, Vermont, 301 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: can a majority of citizens pass it. We don't teach 302 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: history very much, and so I'm trying to educate people 303 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: a little bit in my own modest way and in 304 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: your own backyard. The Congress, I started a program which 305 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: was the basis of my first book, where I have 306 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: a famous historian come to Congress once a month and 307 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: I would interview them in front of a dinner that 308 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I would host for members of Congress at the Great 309 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: Hall of the Library of Congress. And members like it 310 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: because they could talk with each other without anybody seeing it. 311 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: They're talking to people in the opposite party. They could socialize, 312 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: and you know, they don't do that much anymore. So 313 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: we were starting that program again in November with an 314 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: interview with Susan Eisenhower when her book about President Eisenhower, 315 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: her grandfather. That's great, and I agree with you, by 316 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: the way, I think one of the real losses in 317 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: the current system is the casual time, the personal friendships. 318 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: You know Bob Michael and he was the Republican leader. 319 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: He was from Peory, Illinois. Every Monday he would drive 320 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: over to the Indiana border and meet Danny Rostenkowski and 321 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: they alternated whose car they would take. They'd park one 322 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: of them, take the other. They would drive to Washington, 323 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: chatting all the way, and then they would drive back together. 324 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: Now that's a level of intimacy that lets you solve 325 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: a lot of problems because you're not the other. You're 326 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: a human being. My partisanship is largely gone by the 327 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: wayside in Congress, and you know, things are unanimously voted 328 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: on one side or the other side. It's not what 329 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: it used to be in the days of Rostenkowski or 330 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: the days of even Tip O'Neill. So it's a sad situation. 331 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: So I'd like to educate people about American history. I 332 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: try to do that with members of Congress, though I 333 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: don't want to say I'm educating them, but giving them 334 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: an opportunity to learn a little bit more. You may 335 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: not want to jump ahead, but I did notice in 336 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: a recent interview that you said I'm announcing something soon 337 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: relating to doing more for educating people about our country's history. Yes, 338 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: I hope to announce something soon, and I made an 339 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: announcement yesterday. I just gave ten million dollars to Lincoln 340 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: Center to help with democracy related things that they do there. 341 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: And I hope to make another announcement soon that I'm 342 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: going to be involved in a civic education project with 343 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot of civic education organization that are going to 344 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: designed to kind of educate people at more civics and 345 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: things like that. That's great. Yeah, I got a note 346 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: from some of the other day pointing out that Washington's 347 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: birthday will come up in about eleven years. In nineteen 348 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: thirty two, it was an enormous event, and people really 349 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: paid attention. They published the Washington Papers around it, which 350 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: are multi volumes. Then, in fact, Don Graham, who you interviewed, 351 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: sent me the note and said, how should we celebrate 352 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: Washington on his birthday? And I thought it was a 353 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: very interesting question. Well, interestingly, we don't celebrate Washington's birthday anymore. 354 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: We celebrate President's Day because it was thought inappropriate to 355 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: have two days, one for Lincoln and one for Washington. 356 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: But interestingly, you point out when Washington died in seventeen 357 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: ninety nine, we didn't actually start building the Washington Monument 358 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: until around eighteen thirty two, and then it took about 359 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: fifty years to get it done. Didn't really open to 360 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight. A typical Washington project takes fifty years 361 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: to get done. Washington now has been criticized, obviously for 362 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: being a slave owner. And my own point in these 363 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: kind of things is we have to take the good 364 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: with the bad and understand what happened with these people. 365 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: But we can't denigrate Washington, say all the good things 366 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: he did is to go away, and we shouldn't honor 367 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: him because he was a slave owner. Many people were 368 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: slave owners in those days. Unfortunately, that's true. The question 369 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: he comes in part do you a race history or 370 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: do you try to learn from it? And I think 371 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: that that's an argument we need to have more of today. 372 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: Right For example, I am working on a PBS series 373 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: on history and I'm going to go down this weekend 374 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: to film something at Stone Mountain. So what do you 375 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: do about Stone Mountain where Confederate characters are carved in 376 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: the historic piece of granite? And I don't really know 377 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: what the best answer is. I think you shouldn't destroy 378 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: something like that. You should educate people about why people 379 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: did what they did at Stone Mountain, but not completely 380 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: destroy it, in my view. I reasonly did a podcast 381 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: with Allen Gilzo, who has a brand new book out 382 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: on Robert E. Lee, and I found it fascinating because 383 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: Gelzo starts by saying, you know, you have to come 384 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: to the fact that Lee is a trader. He swore 385 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: an oath to the United States, he broke his word, 386 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: and so you're trying to think through how do I 387 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: write a book about a man who committed treason? That 388 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: was such an interesting angle of thinking about Lee. Compared 389 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: to most of the hagiographies that were written over the 390 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: last hundred years. That was fascinating. It's an interesting phenomenon. 391 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: I put up the money to redo the Custous Lee 392 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: Mansion at the top of Arlington Cemetery. It's now opened again, 393 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: and I suggested that we changed the name to the 394 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Arlington House rather than the Coustous Lee Mansion, the official 395 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: monument of the country to Robert E. Lee, And that 396 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: Congress hasn't made the change yet, and I think President 397 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: Trump was upset with me for proposing that. But I 398 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: do think that we shouldn't get rid of the custously Mansion. 399 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: We should just remind people that the good in the 400 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: bad that I had the slave quarters are built out 401 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: and so forth. But I don't think we should destroy 402 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: any knowledge of what happened before. We should just make 403 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: sure people know the good in the bad. Like in Monticello. 404 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: When I put up the money to redo Monicello, I said, 405 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: let's build out the slave quarters so we can know 406 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: what Thomas Jefferson was. He was a brilliant man in 407 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: some ways, but he was a slave owner. Well. In fact, 408 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: when I visited a clisson, I went down a couple 409 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: of years ago, and it is I think very compelling 410 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: to have to deal with the total context of somebody 411 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: like Jefferson or Washington. At the same time, I think 412 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: that it's very important for people to recognize that every 413 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: generation has flaws, and the current generation, eagerly running around 414 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: judging the past, will some morning wake up and be 415 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: mature enough to realize that their own generation has its 416 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: own set of things that three generations so now people 417 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: won't understand absolutely. I mean, look, even in my lifetime, 418 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: I was born before Brown v. Board of Education. After 419 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: Brown V. Board, there were schools there in my hometown 420 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: of Bottomware. They're largely segregated, and there was a lot 421 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: of racial profiling and I lived through a lot of that. 422 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: And you know, we have to recognize that civilization moves forward. 423 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: You can't criticize everybody for every sin that existed at 424 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: the time that they were born and the time that 425 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: they lived, and then you should just have the good 426 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: in the bed and put these things in context. I'm 427 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: fascinated with your dedication to trying to understand America in 428 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: historic sense, and your most recent book, The American Experiment. 429 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: The first thing I want to commend you for is 430 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: the range of people that you have in this book. Again, 431 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you're a famous man and a very wealthy man, 432 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: and you've been probably the number one charitable person in 433 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: the Washington area. So I think everybody will open their 434 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: door to you or pick up the phone. But you 435 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: really reached out. How did you select such a remarkable 436 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: range of people to have because these names are astonishing. 437 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: While I was looking for people that would be able 438 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: to be both famous in a sense they've done famous 439 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: things and they're great Americans, or they write about it 440 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: and take us through this span of American history. But 441 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: obviously I only have a limited number space in the book. 442 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: I did about twenty interviews for the book. I couldn't 443 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: fit them in. So when people I interviewed didn't get in, 444 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: they call me and say, David, how come I'm not 445 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: in the book? I said, what's the publisher's fault? I 446 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: wanted you in. Look, I do have good access, but 447 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: you have to treat people well in an interview. If 448 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: people think I'm gonna do a sixty minutes kind of 449 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: traditional hit piece on them. They probably won't do the interview. 450 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: I generally try to be polite and know what I'm 451 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: talking about, and then try to bring out their knowledge 452 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: as best I can. Well, I'd have to say, if 453 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: you have that many additional potential chapters, you may want 454 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: to talk about the sequel, you know, volume two or something, 455 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: because it's already available. Well, you've written a lot of 456 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: more books than me, and you know the publishing world. 457 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: People like the books to sell, and so you go 458 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: out and you promote them and do the best you can. 459 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: If you do a good job, then they'll give you 460 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: another opportunity. I saw some quote from you the other 461 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: day saying that depending on how this book does, there 462 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: may be another book. I learned years ago. I always 463 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: say this to young writers. You have to be prepared 464 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: to spend as much time selling your book as you're 465 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: going to spend writing it. I agree with you. People 466 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: asked me all the time, do you mind signing my book? 467 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: I said, wait a second, I spent a year or 468 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: so writing this book. Why would I mind signing my autograph? 469 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: When you give me all the copies, and when I'll 470 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: sign them all. I don't care. I take all the 471 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: time and the day to do it. I've signed a 472 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: lot of books and I'm happy to do them. I 473 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: think that's terrific. And some of the people you have 474 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: here are good friends of mine. Francis Collins, who's been 475 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: one of the most important leaders in biological research in 476 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: the world for the last thirty or forty years. Done 477 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: an amazing job. Walter Isaacson, who has a knack of 478 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: picking topics and then immersing himself in him. He's now 479 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: down in my alma mater, too Lane, which is also 480 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: his alma mater. Just a great guy. McCullough, who historically 481 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: we think of in more of the revolutionary pariad, but 482 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: his book on the Right Brothers, who I think are 483 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: one of the great examples of the American tradition. The Smithsonians. 484 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: Given fifty grand, they try to invent flight their way 485 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: too academic. The plane they build has an engine that's 486 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: too big, too heavy. They launched it over the Potomac. 487 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: It sinks. They can't figure out why it failed because 488 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: it sank, and they apparently hadn't thought through you know, 489 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: you all shoed over water. If they ain't gonna work. 490 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: You got a problem. The Wright brothers average. I was 491 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: out at Wright Patterson talking to the experts about it. 492 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: The Wright brothers averaged one dollar per flight for five years. 493 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: The total for them to get in the air took 494 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: about a thousand dollars. That's all they spent. And even 495 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: after they successfully flew the first plane, they couldn't convince 496 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: Americans that they were doing it. So they had to 497 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: go to France, which is what the David McCullough points out, 498 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: the irony that they have to go to France to 499 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: show this American invention before people in America really believe 500 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: it was true. That's right. And then four years later 501 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: they fly around the island of Manhattan, right, and a 502 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: million people see an airplane for the first time. In 503 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: my mind, it's one of the great examples of why 504 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: America is such an unusual country. Remember, these two brothers 505 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: were very smart, but they didn't go to college. But 506 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: according to David McCullough, they were able to do this 507 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: because they'd read a lot of books. They had trained 508 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: themselves in the social sciences. Their father had a lot 509 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: of books and they read them all the time. Even 510 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: though they couldn't afford to go to college, and so 511 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: he was saying that the inquiring mind comes about when 512 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: you study things like history and social sciences. I think 513 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: that's right, and I also think that if you can 514 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: convince young people, whatever circumstances you end up in, you 515 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: can read, you can learn, you can find mentors. There's 516 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: no reason for anyone to give up if you're an American. 517 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: A great and sadly though, as much as reading is 518 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: important to me and to you, fourteen percent of adults 519 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: in this country are functioning illiterate. It means they can't 520 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: read past the fourth grade level. And to me, the 521 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: greatest reason we have income and equality is probably you 522 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: have so many people that can't read. If you can't read, 523 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: you are going to probably be in the federal criminal system. 524 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: If you can't read, you're gonna be in the juvenile 525 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: delinquency system. It's a sad situation. And I think income 526 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: redistribution is one thing. It's not going to solve the problems. 527 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: You have to solve the problem, but people can't read 528 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: before you can solve other polls. Well, you know, one 529 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: of the things I'm trying to work on and just 530 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: intellectually try to think through the Baltimore City schools have 531 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: I think five school buildings in which not a single 532 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: student was able to pass the state exam. And that's 533 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: a crisis for them personally, those young people who are 534 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: not going to be able to have a decent life. 535 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: For the country, which is not going to be able 536 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: to compete with China if we continue to produce people 537 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: who can't do complicated, difficult work. But trying to think 538 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: through how you tackle those kind of neighborhoods and those 539 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: kind of situations, I think it's really really a challenge. Okay, 540 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: if I had the answer, I would be in Iowa, 541 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Not easy to find the answers to those things. 542 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: You know, what I try to do in my own 543 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: philanthropy is find something which I can start they wouldn't 544 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: otherwise get started. I can finish something that wouldn't know 545 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: how as it could finish. I will have an intellectual 546 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: interest to stay involved, and I'm going to see some 547 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: progress in my lifetime. I can't solve all the global problems. 548 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: I just have a narrow list of things I'm working on. 549 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: K to twelve education is such a problem at Bill 550 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: Gates and so many others who tried have failed to 551 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: really make a big debt. It is amazing. We have 552 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: the greatest higher education system in the world far and none, 553 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: but we have a K to twelve system that's an 554 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: embarrassment to the country. When people ask me what do 555 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: I worry about most, it's education because if we don't 556 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: fix that, we are not going to be able to 557 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: compete in the world, and we're not going to be 558 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: able to sustain a free society. Yes, what percentage of 559 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: people do you think in China are illiterate? A very 560 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: small percentage compared to this country, very small percentage. And 561 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: if you look at India, the intensity of the effort 562 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: to get their children to learn and the quality, for example, 563 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: of the Indian technology schools is just remarkable in a 564 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: country which is very, very poor, but it sees learning 565 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: as the path to the future. I agree to me, 566 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: that's everything. Education is everything. I have to ask you 567 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: this from about our mutual friend. I first got to 568 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: know Don Graham when I was a junior congressman and 569 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: he was done working at the post and as I 570 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: learned that he had gone to Vietnam to serve then 571 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: he came back home decided he needed to learn the city, 572 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: so he became a cop on the street. I think 573 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: he's one of the most interesting and complex people have 574 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: ever met. Don was trying to be different than his father, 575 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: who wanted to be a global figure I think, and 576 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: be a presidential maker. Don wanted to make the newspaper 577 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: a local paper, and he wanted to understand the local community, 578 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: and that's why he became a policeman for a while. 579 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: Don offered me an opportunity to buy the Washington Post 580 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: before he sold it to Jeff Bezos, who a much 581 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: better owner, much richer and better than I would have been. 582 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: One of my regrets and life as I wish I 583 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: had said, yes, well, it's a remarkable tradition there, and 584 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: Don himself, we'd try to work on things like helping 585 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: the Dreamers and breaking out of the current immigration law problems. 586 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: But I find him an example on this list of 587 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: people that are really interesting that you managed to sit 588 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: down with and talk with. Now, when I first saw 589 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: this confess, I was stopped a little bit by the 590 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: notion of the key genes. I mean, I sort of 591 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: under sandwhich the parallel you're drawing. But as you thought 592 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: about it, how did you come to this particular list 593 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: of thirteen? Okay, so when you came up with a 594 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: contract for America, right, how many key provisions were there? Ten? Ten? Right? Okay, 595 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: if you'd had twenty five, people wouldn't remember it, right, Well, 596 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,239 Speaker 1: you'd come up with a reasonable number that people can 597 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: more or less remember. And my idea was, what are 598 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: the number of things I can probably get people to 599 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: remember in terms of the key things that make Americans 600 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: so unique? And I couldn't come up with ten. I 601 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: came up with thirteen. But basically the concept it was 602 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: obviously it's a bit of a rhetorical device to basically say, look, 603 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: we have these genes in US. We don't have the genes, 604 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: but it's kind of what makes America unique in my view. 605 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: So if you go to France, they won't believe in, 606 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: let's say, the American dream as much as we believe 607 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: in American dream. They don't have a French dream. Our 608 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: unique things are kind of things I put in there, 609 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: the belief in rule of law, the belief in our quality, diversity, 610 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: and so forth. So that's how I came up with it, 611 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: and I'm sure anybody could come up with a different thirteen, 612 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,479 Speaker 1: but that's the one I came up with. No No, 613 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: I think it's a good list, and I think it 614 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense in trying to describe this 615 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: unique experiment, which somehow I was telling a group earlier. Today. 616 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: We have many weaknesses, we have many problems, we have 617 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: some very deep conflicts. But you have over a million 618 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: people trying to get into the country illegally. Well, we 619 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: also accept over a million people legally. I don't notice 620 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: anybody queuing up to get into China or trying to 621 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: get to Russia. We have forty six million immigrants in 622 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: this country, forty six million. I don't know that there 623 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: are forty six million people and the whole rest of 624 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: the world that are living in countries that they weren't 625 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: born in. But people want to come here. And how 626 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: many people leave every year that give up their citizenship. 627 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: Virtually nobody gives up their citizenship in this country. And 628 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 1: that's been true almost from the very beginning of the country. 629 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: In the beginning of the country is I pointed out 630 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: in one of the chapters, anybody could show up. There 631 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: were no visa's, no passports. Anybody could show up. And 632 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: then you know when people who weren't from Western Europe 633 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: started to show up. Then they began to make it 634 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: more difficult and so forth. But now it's not that 635 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: difficult to get in legally if you have some basic qualifications, 636 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: you have a family connection here. It's not as bad 637 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: as it was from nineteen twenty five nineteen sixty five, 638 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: when it was much more difficult to get in well. 639 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: And the other challenge which I think legitimately absorbs a 640 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: large part of our public life right now. I was 641 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: born in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My dad served in the Army, 642 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: but I grew up in places like Fort Riley, Kansas, 643 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: and Orley On, France and Stuttgart. I got to Georgia 644 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: through Fort Benning when my dad was assigned there as 645 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: a junior in high school. That was early in nineteen 646 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: sixty Georgia was an intensely segregation of state, and it 647 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: was a legal system in which the power of the 648 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: government coerced people and they had no real choices if 649 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: they were African American. And I do think we've had 650 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: a difficult time trying to take precisely the list you 651 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: have in terms of the genes of the American system 652 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: and finding a way to fully deeply involve every African 653 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: American recognizing that they do have a unique and different 654 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: I mean, only Native Americans have had a harder time 655 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: than African Americans in dealing with this, and I think 656 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: that's one of the great challenges. And I know you 657 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: spend time on Frederick Douglas and John Lewis and you're 658 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: sensitive to it in the book, but it does strike 659 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: me that it's one of the complexities of our country. Well, 660 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: what I say is one of our genes today is diversity. Now, 661 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: when our country was being found that nobody was talking 662 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: about diversity. They might have been talking about separation of powers, 663 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: but not diversity. It's a gene that has evolved. And 664 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: now if you go to Japan, you go to China 665 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: and you say diversity is very important, they look at 666 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: you like, what are you talking about? In this country 667 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: now we accept the concept largely that diversity has some 668 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: benefits to it and it's appropriate to do. But it's 669 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: a new concept. You know, even when you and I 670 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: were growing up as young boys, diversity wasn't seen as 671 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: a great virtue. No, that's exactly right. The degree to 672 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: which America has changed. I try to explain the occasion 673 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: of my grandchildren in our lifetime. And I'm a little 674 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: bit older than you, but we both have seen so 675 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: many things. In nineteen sixty, the country was ninety percent white, 676 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: ten percent non white, mostly black. Now it's obviously forty 677 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: percent non white in Georgia. In nineteen sixty, Georgia gave 678 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: I think the highest percentage victory to John Kennedy. It's 679 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: hard to believe it that happened. It did, and it's 680 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: just a different world then, because you know the world 681 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: was largely segregating this out there, and the Democrats were 682 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: seen as supporting of that. That's right. Actually, my entry 683 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: to practical politics was in nineteen sixty in Columbus, Georgia, 684 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: when as a sixteen year old high school student, there 685 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: were so few Republicans. They were so thrilled to have 686 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: anybody volunteer that I was allowed to work in the 687 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: Nixon Lodge campaign, and you know, the Georgia Republican Party 688 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: for all practical purposes didn't exist. I mean, it was astonishing. 689 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: I do want to mention, by the way, your use 690 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,479 Speaker 1: of genetics. I was very intrigued. A few years back. 691 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,439 Speaker 1: I read Dawkins book The selfish gene He's a great 692 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: student of genetics, and the last part of his book 693 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: he inventsd the concept of what he calls a mean 694 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: M E N E and argues that cultures actually evolve 695 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: very parallel to the way biology evolved, and that, for example, 696 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: Mozart was a really successful mean in that his music 697 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: crowded out most of his competitors and survived. I found 698 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: it a very interesting way to think about how these 699 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: ideas get engaged. Well, yes, think about this. In the end, 700 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: Darwin said that there's a kind of survival of the fittest, 701 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: and we progress, and humans and other species progress, they grow, 702 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: they improve. The same is true with our government. The 703 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: government has progressed in many ways, in some cases not 704 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: as much as you might want, But the government evolves 705 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: just the way Darwin thought that creatures evolved. Listen, I 706 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: don't want to get you too deeply involved in partisan politics, 707 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: but I have to ask you just for a second, 708 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: since somebody you've known for many years who was a 709 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: co CEO of your company is now running for governor 710 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: and Glenn Yuncan, what was your experience with him? Like, 711 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it was very profitable, you know, It's 712 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: a complicated subject for me to talk about. Only because 713 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: Terry mccaullof has been a friend of mine for twenty 714 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: five years. I've known him and I hired Glenn twenty 715 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: five years ago, and so I've known him both. And 716 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: because the State of Virginia has invested with Carlisle, we 717 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: have sound. The best thing to do is to say 718 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: nothing and not get in trouble. So what is your 719 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: next question? That's very good. I think you've framed it 720 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: exactly right. I want to thank you for joining me today. 721 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: You know, I was told you're a great interviewer, and 722 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: you're a great interview I know personally because of things 723 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: we've done at the Kennedy Center and elsewhere that your 724 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: philanthropy is really making a difference. Well, thank you very 725 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: much for the time. We are going to have a 726 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: link to buy your book, The American Experiment, Dialogues and 727 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: a Dream. It'll be on our showpage at newsworld dot com. 728 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: And as a fellow author, I want to do all 729 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: I can to help make sure you're successful so you 730 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: can go on to the next book. Thanks a lot, 731 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest David Rubinstein. You can get 732 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, The American Experiment 733 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: Dialogues On a Dream on our showpage at newsworld dot com. 734 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: News World is produced by Gingwish Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. 735 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: Our executive producers Debbie Myers, our producer is Going He's Sloan, 736 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the 737 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team 738 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: at Gingwish Sweet sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 739 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 740 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 741 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 742 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: Newtsworld can sign up from my three free weekly columns 743 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: at Gingwish Sweet sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 744 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld