WEBVTT - Why We Hate Pt. 2 (Dr. Ibram X. Kendi recap) 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.640 Hey y'all, Hey, and welcome back to Let's Red Table 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.960 that I'm Tracy t Rowe and um Klara Pressley and 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.320 I'm so glad that we're back to share the second 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.600 half of our conversation with Ernest Krim the Third and 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.919 Dr Susan. Listen, yes, listen. If you have not heard 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.560 part one, pause the episode right now, scroll along back 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.960 using whichever app you use, and listen to last week's 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.639 episode because it was really impactful. The discussion about the 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.800 Red Table Talk episode of Psychology of Hate was one 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.280 for the books. Yes it was. And today we're sharing 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.200 part two. We will dive even deeper into the topic 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.720 shared at the Red Table and our guests personal experiences 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.840 fighting against hate. Who It's a lot, but let's get 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.519 into it. Dia explained that she used racism as an 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.879 issue of the heart, and she said hate it's not 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.600 something that you can confront with my foxts against your facts, 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.720 because it's emotional. You have to be able to reach 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.480 some these heart So, Earnest, you gave a historical context 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.080 to issues of the present day, so you're coming at 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.040 these issues from a different way from Dia. But what 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.039 results have you seen from teaching your students and others 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.000 true black history. So something really interesting about my teaching 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.319 experience is I've taught in the diverse environment. So my 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.319 intention initially was I'm going to teach all black kids 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.880 all the time. And I quickly realized that I'm in America. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.840 The overarching goal is to do that because I know 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.760 what this means to us. But I always say, now, like, 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.720 I'm teaching to black people, but if you have a 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.120 ear and a heart for you can listen in too. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.840 But just know it's not gonna always be for you. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.160 So I taught at a school where it was like 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.880 predominantly Hispanic. You have kids who undocumented, white kids who 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.200 lived in the rural town. It looked like the South 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.120 in a lot of ways. White kids who live in 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.560 urban environments, White kids who had a lot of money, 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.559 Black kids who had a lot of money, black kids 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.880 who didn't. So I was in a diverse environment racially 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.320 and economically. And one of the things I realized, and 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.280 this is the premise of my book, actually, and this 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.880 is a study done by a professor at Harvard and 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.440 the University of Pittsburgh and says that when black children 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.920 I talked to have racial pride. They performed better academically, 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.560 so like you can really put you can put something 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.120 on these teachings. We are implicitly and sometimes explicitly talked 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.080 to believe that we are inferior. This has been stated 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.359 several times today in on the episode, and white children 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.560 are implicitly and explicitly taught that they are superior. We 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.880 have to consciously nip that in the book. I've had 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.000 kids tell me and I'm glad I have this in 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.120 my phone under favorites because I have to show this 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.040 in people for testimonial sometimes because sometimes people think you're 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.440 just talking to talk, right. I had a young man 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.800 reach out to me, he said, Mr Krem, I wanted 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.880 to tell you your content really helped me, especially throughout 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:52.160 my chemotherapy, learning about the history of America, especially with 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.760 being Jamaican in America myself learning about this interest and 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.680 keep doing what you're doing. Appreciated and much love to you. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.240 I had somebody tell me that love your videos. They 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.160 give me a sense of pride I've never had before. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.560 When I was on Games podcast with my brother John Lucas, 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.000 like we worked together, we are helping kids get into 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.639 HBCUs Ivy League schools, top schools like USC or going 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.400 to entrepreneurship. If they want, we're giving them scholarship money. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.320 A lot of this oftentimes is helping kids realize that 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.919 they have the potential to do something. But going back 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.840 to my previous point, I've had white students tell me 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.040 that I made a difference and I never thought I would, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.240 just being really after my first or second year teacher, 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.400 I had a white child. This boy lived in a 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.360 neighboring town, Confederate flag, all of that. Kids you not 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.120 in class, kid was great, right, but online you have 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.200 the Confederate thing. He sent me a message one time 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.920 it was like, Mr Cram, you are the only teacher 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.080 that ever believed in me only, and you're the reason 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.960 why I passed my exam to get into the military. Parents, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.520 I'm I'm teaching the online black history course. Now. I 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.280 have a parent who's from Philly, but she had to move. 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.600 I believe it was Montana or Wyoming, one of those 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.720 states we always forget about. Don't get mad at me 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.160 if you're listening from no faith, no offense. I'm just 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:12.640 saying no respect. But she was saying that she loved 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.520 my class because our child is able to learn from 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.359 a black educator who's teaching her these important principles, and 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.440 she's able to be in an environment with other black 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.040 children at the same time. She said, she's learning so much. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.760 She said, it's almost like the stories you hear when 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.560 you're growing up, like the stories that your family passed down, 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:32.720 and you can give you courage or it can deflate you. 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.240 And what I'm doing with history is saying we've dealt 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.080 with some horrible things and some amazing things, but at 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.400 the end of the day, we've countered this before. We 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.280 just have to remind ourselves of what was done and 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.159 recreate that in this generation. Yes, yes, yes, no, I 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.479 love that. That was actually my next question. Have you 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.640 seen others involved in real time? And have you been 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.080 in one interaction that shifted someone's mindset? And when I'm 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.440 hearing I feel like I had a little revelation going 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.599 back to of the person who wanted to see that 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.880 fear in someone's eyes. And then like you said, that 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.640 boy was Confederate in one place, but really listening in 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.280 another space, it's like just that false security. I think 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.960 we all want to be affirmed and revered and acknowledged 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.120 and just seen and you're helping people to see that. 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.240 You're helping me see that just right here in this 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.240 and Tracy, I told you too, like I'm constantly evolving 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.640 and learning and unlearning just what I thought I knew. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.200 And it's a great place to be in. I hope 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.760 everyone's having the same types of revelations as they're listening in, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.200 because this is all key say. I think the key 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.839 is something I've learned a whole teaching and diverse environments is, 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.240 especially if you're teaching like a white child that comes 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.840 from a history of this is you have to understand 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.720 that these people are individuals and like Dr Gleason experienced, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.000 like they did not do what was done, but they 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.760 were born into an environment in which it was done. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.040 Kids are born into an unequal world, and they're born 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.919 into a world and which they've taught that certain people 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.120 have more because they are more, and other people have 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.960 less because there are less. And then as they sort 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.680 of come of age and people start telling them that 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.560 the source of their struggles are those other people who 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.760 don't look like them, that causes them to them hate them. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.279 So in a way of kids in our society, we 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:20.160 almost provide them with this unfortunate foundation to hate. So 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.360 you have to make sure you're teaching them the facts 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.720 and removing them individually, but also understanding and letting them 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.919 know that they have the capacity to benefit from those 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.160 tragedies or do something to change the course of history. 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.480 And one of the things that I think is very important. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.599 I think a Dr. Kenney touched on this as well, 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.279 is making sure that whenever we show our black children 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.800 the negativity that happened, you counter it and show them 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.520 people who fault. And the same thing has to also 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.719 be done if you're teaching a white child that too, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.720 because if you're going to constantly see that if you 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.600 want to help, but you never see yourself helping, now 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.640 you should have the capacity. So I can still do this, 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.560 but we're talking children, it would make it difficult to 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.800 see how you fit into this puzzle. Right, true, I 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:08.400 want to acknowledge that the fear has been the common denominator. 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.640 It was true for Jeff, it was true for Jeff's grandfather, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.920 It was true for the quote unquote Harasser that you 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:22.880 had earnest the fear and the trauma right from whatever 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:29.040 someone experienced has translated or manifested itself into trauma for 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:34.520 someone else. What I love in this is that for you, Earnest, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:41.720 you have literally taken your traumatic experience, and the experience 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:48.040 literally propelled you to the forefront and positioned you for 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:54.080 your purpose. When you can have students from every socio 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.360 economic background and from every creed and from every race 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.320 and color tell you what you're doing has moved them 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.640 and shifted their mindsets, you're really truly walking in your purpose. 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:13.440 That is phenomenal. Appreciate that, and the real time will 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:18.640 pay dividends beyond our existence. Right the people that you touched, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.680 those fresh hearts that are open to the change, will 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.840 then share that with their friends, and then their family 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.680 members and their neighbors, and it will literally become a 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.560 snowball of goodness and hope, because that's what we really need. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.920 I'm just grateful that you're doing this, and I'm grateful 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.360 that you're sharing with us, and that you're here at 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.360 this virtual red table. It's so important. Thank you for 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:52.560 sharing that. Jeff said that all it took for him 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:57.320 to change was finally experiencing a one on one interaction 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:01.280 with an actual person for I'm a group that he hated. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.200 When she was talking to me about how she felt 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.319 as a child, how racism, how hatred made her feel 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:17.360 diminished or less than. Something inside of me snapped, Susan, 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.960 how have your connections or relationships that you've had with 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.040 people who didn't and don't have the same background as 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.520 you shaped your point of view. I can go all 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.560 the way back to my ninth grade birthday party, right 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.520 where I invited all the kids who had come to 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.079 the first and second grade party, who were all white. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.480 It was schools had just been desegregated in nineteen seventy 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.520 in Georgia and across the South, And we got ready. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.000 My mama put out the dog right, she had the 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.360 crystal punch bowl with the sherbet, two sheet cakes. We 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.920 were ready to celebrate. I was counting my lute in 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.040 my head. And I invited a new friend who I 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:56.960 had met in third grade. Her name was a Lisa. 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.920 And the day of the party came, and the time 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.000 for the party arrived, and no one had come into 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.280 the driveway. And I sat on the porch and I, 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.440 you know, did I take my cootie shot? What did 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.199 I do? What happened? What happened? And my mom's getting 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.400 phone calls inside the house, and what she's being told is, oh, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.679 my goodness, we just forgot that we had this event 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.120 and we're not gonna be able to come to the party. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.800 And these are folks we went to church with. And 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.880 then a car pulled into the driveway and it was 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.040 Lisa and she got out and I was a tomboy, 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.360 so I was, you know, whatever, and some messed up 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.559 blue jeans and she had this lovely like apricot confection 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.160 of ruffles and she just looked fabulous immediately, like again, 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:38.720 I don't even know I'm why am i and what 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.280 am I doing? She's so much better than I am. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.480 And in that moment, my mother could have done a 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.840 lot of things. She could have been rude to Lisa 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.800 because she's been told that now her child is her 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.079 sona and Garda, because she's invited a black child to 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.640 her party. She could have waited until afterwards and said 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.920 we probably ought not invite folks like that. Over again, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.000 that's not what my mama did. What my mama did 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.600 it was to say, that's just more cake for y'all. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.280 Oh my gosh, I love your mama. I know that 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.960 is the best thing ever. Do you hear me because 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.960 you were getting ready to have a wang dang doodle, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:18.160 two sheet cakes and it's good crystal punch. That's a 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.320 real party. I don't know. You just can't get it 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.680 better than that ninth grade here in the South. You 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.520 just that mean you were ready to have a real 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.880 deal party. For me to try to wonder what was 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.520 her experience of that event, right, I don't know. She 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.520 was two grades ahead of me. She was a relative 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.680 of people that my brothers were friends with, which is 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.760 how I got But I needed to try to start 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.160 to wonder how did that affect her? And then in 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:49.800 twelfth grade, Alison Williams just spectacular person, beautiful human being, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.040 and she was the first black student to win the 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.960 Miss Evans High School pageant, and I was so excited 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:57.800 for her. She was my good friend. And the annual 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.720 came out and normally the pageant winner would have been 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.960 splashed across the annual, and all they did was put 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.880 the picture of all of the women who were in 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.160 the pageant and a little corner shot of her right 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.160 and to see how devastated she was to not have 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.280 that celebrated in the way that all the white girls 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.720 who'd want it before had been celebrated, that empathy, the 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.360 ability to be able to start to see life through 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.520 her eyes and through Lisa's eyes, and then going forward 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.280 that this that kind of intimacy. It's not enough to 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.760 be proximant. It's not enough. It's not enough to be 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.400 working side by side. We have to get to know 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.760 each other's stories, we have to touch each other's hearts. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.280 We've got to listen to what matters to us most. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.600 And that's what's gonna change what we're dealing with. Were 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:45.920 those experiences, some of what you had that moved you 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.920 to create the Glistening Group. I've been lucky enough to 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.640 be in Mississippi now for twenty five years, and I 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.720 was the founding director of the Winter Institute for Racial 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.600 Reconciliation at the University of Mississippi, and through that job, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.480 I helped to force Old Miss to acknowledge the so 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.600 called in quotation marks Old Miss it's the slavery term 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.640 to apologize for the exclusion of African Americans to the 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.800 University of Misissippi in two thousand two at the forty 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.920 anniversary of the of that riot, and that led to 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.960 being invited into Nishoba County on the fort anniversary of 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.360 the murders of the three civil rights workers there, James Cheney, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.440 Andy Goodman, and Mickey Scharner, and I worked for eighteen 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.240 months with a multiracial group of folks to call for 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.680 justice in that case, then eventually led to the first 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.280 state conviction of the ringleader of the murders. But the 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.000 whole time I was there, the university tried to stop 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.600 me from doing that work. Right, the chancellor at the time, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.319 while I was invited to n Scheba County, said you 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:41.959 can do tourism, but we don't really want you to 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.760 get involved in justice. Well, we don't get reconciliation without justice, sir. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.600 That's right. Luckily, I had mentors and advocates who said, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.000 you need to keep doing what you're doing, but after 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.760 a while, you just have to You have to leave 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.640 and go to a place where you can do good 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.319 work without having to fight somebody from stopping you to 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.079 trying to do the work. So that's why I've left 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:09.240 the university after twenty years and created this group. You 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.880 did not want to have to fight someone else so 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.280 that you could fight against something else bigger, exactly. Yeah, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.720 I get it. That's good. Thank you. For the work 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.840 because it's important, and I can tell you, as a 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:28.480 woman of color, I get tired of hearing about what 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.920 we're supposed to do to change things. It is exhausting, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:37.120 and so I am grateful that you recognize, not just recently, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.680 it hasn't been this new awakening that you understood long 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.760 ago and far away, the impact and the hate and 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.280 what it does to a person. So I'm grateful that 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.800 you get it and that you identify that you need 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.320 to sit down and get some other white people at 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.000 the table for them to also identify and recognize they 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:56.920 need to make some efforts to I appreciate that, and 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.200 it's not a drop in the bucket to what needs 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.120 to be done, so there's plenty more work to do. 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.280 I'm really excited I get to share with you all 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.240 something that I haven't been able to tell anybody, which 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.920 is that for the last two years I've been leading 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.240 reconciliation conversations between the descendants of Arlington House, which was 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:17.680 Robert E. Lee's plantation WHOA. They have come together and 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.800 the first action they're going to take is there was 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.640 a bill that dropped last week jointly in the Senate 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.360 and the House to remove Robert E. Lee's name from 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.000 Arlington House because it's called Arlington House at Arlington Cemetery, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.400 the Robert E. Lee Memorial, and the descendants have come 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.280 together to ask that name Robert E. Lee be removed 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.880 from the memorial so that all the stories of that 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.920 place can be told. So I encourage folks to reach 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.440 out to your your senators and your congressmen and get 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:52.000 on board with that vote. Yeah that's huge. Yeah, that's powerful. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.800 That's Robert Lee is all around Richmond. Yeah. I thought 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.440 about you earlier when you were talking about that, right, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.280 And this is the descendants of the persons at that pointation, 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.440 and the descendants of Roberty Lee the fifth has joined 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.880 that call to take that name off of that house. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.000 I wish I could sit down with those standing in 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.320 his grave right now, don't you know so? And you 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.080 mean that in the most southern kind of way, in 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:33.320 in the most southern listen. Another topic that the people 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.920 at the Red Table got into was gun violence, and 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.440 we heard from forensic psychologist Jillian Peterson who explained that, 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.120 based on her research, mass shootings come from a person 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.560 blaming a group of people for their struggle and getting 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.840 revenge or making a statement in this way. So we 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.520 now collectively witnessed these shootings every day almost it feels 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.320 like when it's going down, but more often than we like. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.680 And now we even have footage from cell phones and 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.280 things like that. People at this footage and they should 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.600 feel the same way, but they don't. People claim something happened. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.800 They claimed this happened, they claimed they saw that. So 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.399 they do this by labeling these shootings differently based on 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.240 who is holding the gun and where the shooting happens, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.600 or passing blame from guns to mental health and mental 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.240 health issues. Earnest, let me ask you, how has video footage. 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.080 We know you have some famous video footage, but how 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.280 has that affected these conversations? How would your situation have 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.800 even changed if there wasn't that footage available. Definitely it's 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.240 twofold because in one respect, speaking about racism, I think 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.960 that for the first time, we are collectively seeing the 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.159 racism that our ancestors dealt with for so long, just 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.000 in a different generation, of course. And when we're talking 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.199 about shootings personally, I feel as though it's retraumatizing us 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:55.199 collectively because that's one thing that all Americans. I believe 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.200 agree on that these things are tragic, even though oftentimes 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.280 it does not persuade people enough that change things legislatively. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.680 When you hear about children, when you hear about people 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.760 in schools at parades, we can all relate because we 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:11.399 have black folks who were stolen with guns, traded for guns. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.199 We have this land that was concrete with guns. We 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.239 all kind of have that in common a little bit. 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.680 We don't need to see the footage of the police 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.840 and volved Texas. We know how horrible they were in 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.040 that situation. It's re traumatizing us. And the same can 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.040 be said to when we see racist videos for black 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.639 folks that can re traumatize us. For white folks, for 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.240 those who want to know more than for a lot 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.600 of times, that can be their first time seeing something 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.400 like that. And I was envisioning this timetable. I want 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.960 to kind of make you all privy to so black 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.680 folks were brought here for the purpose of enslavement, even 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.679 beyond sixteen nineteen of the English colonies, fifteen twenty six 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.320 for the Spanish colonies in South Carolina, so we're talking 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.280 roughly three hundred plus years of enslavement. We get cameras, 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:56.240 photography around, they're more ubiquitous around eighteen fifties or sixties. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.600 Chattow slavery conclude so called concludes in eighteen sixty five 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.960 wards I say transition to the prison. So we're talking 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:09.480 roughly ten to fifteen years of footage from enslavement. We 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.520 know how bad slavery is and we don't even have proof, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.280 visually proved. Visual proof is what I mean, right, and 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.600 it's already traumatic. Imagine if we saw a video of 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.480 the Lashes, a video of Culture Kente getting whipped like that, 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.719 It's it's tough for me to watch. I get angry, 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.399 so I have to turn away when it comes on 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.639 a lot of times. Right, I watched Birth of a 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.240 Nation and was traumatized, and I was like, why why 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.080 did I watch that? Imagine what that turner went through, 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.800 and then imagine what he did and then what they 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.560 did to him. They were still passing his skull around 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.080 his recent as five years ago. I just can't imagine. 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.760 I just literally can't. Let me tell you to your point, Earnest, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.800 there is a phenomenal historical place that you can go 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.560 to when you visit Memphis called Slave Haven. Enslave Haven. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.760 It's a house. It was part of the underground railroad. 0:19:58.080 --> 0:19:59.960 And if you go to Slave Haven. Dr Susan, I, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.639 no you're not. You've been there, I know. And it 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.560 gives you the opportunity to go down into what we 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.480 would now call the basement or seller. It's real, it's 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.679 the actual space and it shows just a little like 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:22.560 one inch diameter whole that they had to breathe from 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:28.119 while they were literally in the underground railroad, participating, actively 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.800 engaged in trying to be free. Go in that space 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.760 and then come up and see those restraints that were 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.920 used on the next and on the hand, it's a lot, 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.840 it's a lot of trauma. And so when you start 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:50.160 talking about gun violence and mass shootings, I am absolutely 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.719 horrified when I see that happened period. But then the 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.600 way that it's labeled, the way that it's labeled when 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:04.240 we have the mass shootings is so different then the 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.600 way that it's labeled when we have gun violence that 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:13.960 happens allegedly between quote unquote gang members. So I just 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.119 I have a real hard time when it comes to 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.359 gun violence because people are getting killed every day by guns. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.160 Like we said, right, we just know we have footage 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.080 of it. Now, we know we can see it. But 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.720 when there's a white man with the gun who goes 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.119 to a church and kills people, and after sitting with them, 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:40.720 he's walked out peacefully and then given something to eat. 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:45.760 Yet conversely, how many times have we seen footage of 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.720 someone who's just pulled over for an alleged traffic violation 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.919 and literally killed. That's gun violence too, And so I 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.359 just y'all can take this and go where you want 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.000 with it. I'm encouraging people who are listening to us 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.199 to send us emails and tell us more about what 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.200 you think, because this is not just the four of us. 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.399 It's a conversation we're all having. But I'm interested in 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:18.560 knowing how do we reconcile that who That's a tough one, 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.320