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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton has said that FBI Director James Comey's public

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Speaker 1: statements about the FBI's investigation into Clinton's use of a

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Speaker 1: private email server was an important factor leading to her

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Speaker 1: defeat in leicest year's presidential election. President Trump, meanwhile, has

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Speaker 1: praised Comey's actions. And it took guts for Director Comy

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Speaker 1: to make the move that he made in light of

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Speaker 1: the kind of opposition he had, where they're trying to

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Speaker 1: protect her from criminal prosecution. You know that. But yesterday

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Speaker 1: President Trump fired Director Comy based he said on advice

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Speaker 1: that Comey's handling of that investigation had damaged the FBI's

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Speaker 1: reputation and credibility. Later in the program, we expect to

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Speaker 1: go live to the White House for Deputy Press Secretary

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Speaker 1: Sarah Sanders comments on the Comy firing. And now we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it with John Colahane, a professor

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Speaker 1: at Delaware Law School, and Michael Vadis, a partnered Steptoe

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Speaker 1: and Johnson who held several positions, including Associate Deputy Attorney

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Speaker 1: General in the Department of Justice. Michael, you have a

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Speaker 1: situation where the President during the campaign praised Comey's public

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Speaker 1: statements about what was going on in the investigation of

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Speaker 1: Clinton's email server. Now he's fired. It based on a

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Speaker 1: he's fired and based on a it's purportedly on a

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Speaker 1: memo from Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein that says that he

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Speaker 1: Comey handled his terribly and undermined the FBI. What do

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Speaker 1: we make of this rationale for firing the FBI director.

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Speaker 1: I think it's patently obvious that that this rationale is

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Speaker 1: a complete pretext and has nothing to do with the

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Speaker 1: real reason that Comey was fired. Um. I think anybody

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Speaker 1: who's been following the news in recent months has to

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Speaker 1: believe that this is uh based m the Trump Russia investigation,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it may just be that they were getting

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Speaker 1: nervous that the FBI is getting too close to Trump

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Speaker 1: and too close to the people closely associated with him.

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Speaker 1: I think there's no other way to explain this, John,

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with that that there's no other way

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Speaker 1: to explain this? Absolutely? I mean, if one were to

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Speaker 1: read the Rosenstein memo setting forth the justifications for the firing,

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Speaker 1: you know, in isolation, they make sense. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: was a case for firing Comy, but now you know,

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Speaker 1: many months after the fact, Uh, it makes no sense

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Speaker 1: at all except for the reasons that we've just heard.

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Speaker 1: So I completely agree with that. I think a number

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Speaker 1: of things have come to light in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days. One is that Comey had recently requested more

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Speaker 1: resources for the investigation, There had recently been subpoenas issued

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Speaker 1: in regard to Mike Flynn's conduct, and then the Senate

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Speaker 1: had just asked for information about the financial connections between

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Speaker 1: Trump people in the Russian So I think, uh, if

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Speaker 1: you look at those events and the reports that Trump

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Speaker 1: was furious about the Russian in instigation, the only logical

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Speaker 1: conclusion I can draw from that is that this was

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Speaker 1: really based on that. And the word pretext I think

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Speaker 1: is exactly right. Well, Michael, perhaps the the irrationale isn't

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Speaker 1: the real one, as you're suggesting. But doesn't the president

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Speaker 1: have the legal right to dismiss the FBI director for cause?

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Speaker 1: I mean, the FBI director has a ten year term

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Speaker 1: and he's and uh, you know, Congress created that fixed

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Speaker 1: term in order to remove the FBI director from from

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Speaker 1: partisan politics and from and from the pressures of partisan politics,

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Speaker 1: and and precisely to deal with a situation like this

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Speaker 1: where um, the head of the executive branch may himself

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Speaker 1: or or his close associates maybe under investigation. And you

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Speaker 1: need to have independence by the FBI director. Now he

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Speaker 1: is part of the executive branch, but since the executive

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Speaker 1: branch is responsible for enforcing the law, it's critical to

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Speaker 1: have independence on the part of the FBI director. And

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever one thinks of called me his actions

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Speaker 1: with regard to the Clinton email investigation. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think you could make a case that that his

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Speaker 1: firing would have been justified. UM. But I think you

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Speaker 1: could also say it wasn't that wasn't uh, that it

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Speaker 1: could cause to to fire him. Um. But I think

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Speaker 1: to the extent we get caught up in whether that

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Speaker 1: was a fire able offense, I think we're we're playing

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Speaker 1: into the White House's hands. Uh, when the real question

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Speaker 1: should be what was the reason that they fired What

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Speaker 1: was the true reason that they fired him? Uh? And

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Speaker 1: what do you know, what does that mean for our

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Speaker 1: democracy and for the rule of law if they can

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Speaker 1: fire someone um, because he was leading an investigation that

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Speaker 1: was making the president uncomfortable because it was getting close

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Speaker 1: to him. In the wake of President Trump firing FBI

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Speaker 1: Director James Comeby yesterday sent him an already leader. Chuck

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Speaker 1: Schumer called for the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General

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Speaker 1: to brief the entire Senate in closed session, and he

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Speaker 1: also called for the appointment of a special prosecutor to

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Speaker 1: investigate possible connections between the Trump presidential campaign and Russia,

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Speaker 1: an investigation that until yesterday was overseen by James Comey.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today to talk about the fallout from the

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Speaker 1: president's firing of the FBI director are John Klahane, and

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Speaker 1: professor at Delaware Law School, and Michael Vadis, a firmer

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Speaker 1: Justice Department official who is a partner at Steptoe and

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Speaker 1: Johnson john there there. The procedures have changed over the

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Speaker 1: years about how a special prosecutor gets appointed. What would

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Speaker 1: have to happen in order for a special prosecutor to

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Speaker 1: be appointed to take over this Russia investigation, all right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's important to be clear on the terms.

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Speaker 1: And we think about special prosecutors, We think about what

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Speaker 1: happened in the nineteen nineties with Clinton, and there was

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Speaker 1: a law that specifically authorized a special prosecutor. That law

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Speaker 1: hasn't existed since about so now. Really the term is

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Speaker 1: special counsel And basically, uh, this is a situation where

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General or in this case it would be

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Speaker 1: Ron Rosenstein as the deputy since since Sessions is accused,

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Speaker 1: would appoint a special counsel um. And you can think

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Speaker 1: of it as somewhere in between being truly independent like

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Speaker 1: a special prosecutor and being someone that's subject to the

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Speaker 1: authority of the Department of Justice. That somewhere in between.

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Speaker 1: So they're supposed to be independent and not subject to

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Speaker 1: the day to day supervision of the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: and Attorney General, but they're still responding to them, and

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Speaker 1: they can be fired for cause. So they have authority

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Speaker 1: in criminal matters and criminal investigation, but it's not quite

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Speaker 1: as independent as a special prosecutor a law imagined, and

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Speaker 1: it also requires an action by the Attorney General. And

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Speaker 1: you know whether or not that will happen, I think

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Speaker 1: is very much an open question. I doubt it, Michael,

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Speaker 1: So all the senators are calling for this, but Senator

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Speaker 1: Richard Blumenthal said that if the Attorney General of the

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Speaker 1: Deputy Attorney General fails to appoint a special counselor, he'll

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Speaker 1: introduce legislation to re establish an independent Council as existed

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Speaker 1: in the wake of Watergate. What are the chances that

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Speaker 1: he could get bipartisan support for that? Uh? Pretty much

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Speaker 1: close to zero, I would think, um. And even if

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Speaker 1: it passed Congress, I would imagine that President Trump would

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Speaker 1: would veto it. UM. So I think really the best

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Speaker 1: chance of of the investigation continuing with some semblance of

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Speaker 1: independence is that the Deputy Attorney General, UH, since the

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Speaker 1: a G himself is recused from the Russia investigation. If

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Speaker 1: if the Deputy Rod Rosenstein appoints a special counsel um

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Speaker 1: and appoints someone with with real um a reputation for

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Speaker 1: independence and nonpartisan uh, nonpartisanship. But Michael, it sounds from

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Speaker 1: what we've just heard that no one is really going

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Speaker 1: to have real independence, especially if they can be fired

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Speaker 1: for cause, and as we see, cause can be anything,

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Speaker 1: seems at this point, so it doesn't seem like there's

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Speaker 1: any there's any real hope of an of an independent investigation. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's right, I mean, we're we're really back to the

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Speaker 1: situation that existed with with Nixon and his ability to

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Speaker 1: fire Archibald Cox when he was a Special prosecutor. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it took you know, the resignation of the the

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Speaker 1: Attorney General and the deputy and then it was left

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Speaker 1: to the number three person, which happened to be Robert Borke,

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Speaker 1: but to fire Cox and so that that that same

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Speaker 1: sort of situation would exist here. But I think once

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Speaker 1: a special council were appointed, it would be very difficult,

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Speaker 1: even for someone who doesn't have any regard for the

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Speaker 1: usual norms like President Trump, very difficult politically for him

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Speaker 1: to fire a special counsel once that person has been appointed, John,

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Speaker 1: Are there things that Democrats can do in Congress now

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Speaker 1: to try to force the administration's hand to appoint to

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Speaker 1: special council? Not really, No, I mean public pressure, and

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Speaker 1: I think you know, this is a case where you know,

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Speaker 1: popular opinion and you know, kind of people taking to

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Speaker 1: the streets might be, you know, about the only way

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Speaker 1: to get this done. Uh, Well, are there the other

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Speaker 1: thing we need? Are they able to slow things down

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Speaker 1: in Congress or you know, refused to do a point,

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Speaker 1: you know, refused to allow appointments to go forard? Is

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Speaker 1: there any power they have in the minority in the Senate?

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Speaker 1: They're sure is right? The Senate, as we know, is

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Speaker 1: a is a byzantine mess of you know, rules and

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Speaker 1: procedures that can be used by the minority party to

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Speaker 1: slow things down and bring things to a hall, so

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Speaker 1: they could try to do something really dramatic like that. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see if it comes that. The other thing

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Speaker 1: to keep an eye on, of course, is who is

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Speaker 1: appointed as Comey's successor. I think that will be an

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Speaker 1: important question whether that's a person that we can rely

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Speaker 1: on and have competence in is going to continue the investigation.

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Speaker 1: There are some reports that I have to say, I

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Speaker 1: think are pretty credible that you know, Trump is interested

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Speaker 1: in finding someone and appointing someone who will shut the

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Speaker 1: whole thing down, and that really would bring us to

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Speaker 1: some something like a constitutional crisis. Well, our thanks to

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Speaker 1: John Colahane of Delaware Law School and Michael Vadis a

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Speaker 1: partner at Steptoe and Johnson for being here today and Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Glad to talk about President Trump firing the FBI Director

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Speaker 1: James Coomey. And do you know one thing that we

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Speaker 1: haven't mentioned is that several FBI agents replaced their photos

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Speaker 1: on Facebook with Comy's and have written that they were

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Speaker 1: outraged by his removal. So we'll have to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit too, Mark Zuckerberg on the show to talk

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Speaker 1: about that tomorrow. Row U coming up on Bloomberg Law today. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Democrats are urging regulators to look at Carl Icon, who

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Speaker 1: has been advising President Trump, and to see whether or

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Speaker 1: not he's gained unfair trading advantages in the market for

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Speaker 1: renewable fuel credits through his advice and his role with

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration. That's coming up on Bloomberg Law. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg