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Speaker 1: So this is his property.

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Speaker 2: This goes right to the ocean.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this is and this is what he would have seen.

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Speaker 3: Probably brambles gone down. He might have had like a

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Speaker 3: little dock, probably some boats pulled up on shore.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Cornell's descendant, Carrie Nolty, has joined me at every

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Speaker 2: important side in this story. And now we're taking in

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Speaker 2: the view from the water of Thomas Cornell's senior's property

9
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Speaker 2: in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, that same piece of property that

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Speaker 2: Thomas Cornell Junior thought was rightfully his.

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Speaker 4: Sorry yep, so.

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Speaker 3: You can see this is that road and his property,

13
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Speaker 3: Thomas Carnell seniors property and junior's property went right up

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Speaker 3: to the Wading River and to the bay.

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Speaker 2: How many aggres, doy?

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Speaker 4: You have?

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Speaker 5: One hundred acres? One hundred acres.

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Speaker 2: As a young man, Thomas would walk down to the waterfront,

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Speaker 2: maybe a fifteen minute stroll, and catch fish for the family.

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Speaker 2: They often ate mackerel, and they might eat it fresh,

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Speaker 2: or they might add salt to preserve the mackerel for later,

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Speaker 2: like for meals during the winter. Salting helped the fish

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Speaker 2: keep its nutrients. They might have also bought it already

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Speaker 2: salted because cheap salt was available to fishermen, and salted

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Speaker 2: mackerel and salted cod were sold year round. So what

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Speaker 2: would he stand to lose if his mother died?

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Speaker 5: Naturally, what would he get? He would get one hundred

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Speaker 5: acres of land, right undred.

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Speaker 3: Well, so there's one hundred acres of land, but there's

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Speaker 3: also parcels.

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Speaker 5: All over the island.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the particulars of how they did it up,

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Speaker 3: but like if you look at the lots, the maps,

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Speaker 3: I mean I think it was. You know, this would

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Speaker 3: be good land for graising cattle, this would be good

36
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Speaker 3: land for corn.

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Speaker 2: And to see that maybe being stripped away because of

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Speaker 2: his mother, and then maybe if his wife's pressuring him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you see it in so many men

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Speaker 3: who kill women. It's just that inherent sense of entitlement

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Speaker 3: and superiority that how dare you tell me.

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Speaker 5: What to be, how to be? How are you above me?

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Speaker 3: You are not? And I'll show you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Thomas Junior had worked the land, He had taken care

46
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Speaker 2: of the animals, He had taken care of his pregnant wife, Sarah,

47
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Speaker 2: and his children and his elderly mother. But by sixteen

48
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Speaker 2: seventy three, Rebecca was seventy three years old, and she

49
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Speaker 2: was growing more resentful of her son's financial burdens every day.

50
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Speaker 2: And on the other side, Thomas and Sarah were resentful

51
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Speaker 2: that Rebecca had so much control over their lives and

52
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Speaker 2: that she had taken over their entire first floor of

53
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Speaker 2: their home while they shared the cramped upper floor with

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Speaker 2: their six children. Carrie Nolty tells me about how their

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Speaker 2: home is constructed, and good news for us, the home

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Speaker 2: is still standing, so we'll get to see it, Carrie says.

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Speaker 2: In the eighteenth century, most home builders followed a specific

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Speaker 2: blueprint for practical purposes.

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Speaker 3: How construction worked in Rhode Island at that time is

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Speaker 3: that they would build kind of one room house with

61
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Speaker 3: a very large fireplace, and that would be their primary residence.

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Speaker 3: And then they would add on another side of it,

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Speaker 3: and so you would have two fireplaces and two central

64
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Speaker 3: rooms with an open loft above.

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Speaker 5: And in the front of the house.

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Speaker 3: There would be a little entryway right next to where

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Speaker 3: the fireplace, so the chimney is, and there would be

68
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Speaker 3: stairs going up with two doors that went over to

69
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Speaker 3: either room.

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Speaker 2: Remember that we're in Rhode Island, where the temperatures in

71
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Speaker 2: the winter could literally be below freezing, Thomas would venture

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Speaker 2: into the wooded areas and chop down firewood year round.

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Speaker 2: Often his wife Sarah would be responsible for cooking their

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Speaker 2: daily meals, including the meal for her mother in law, Rebecca.

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Speaker 2: Life was structured around the various wood burning fireplaces, and

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Speaker 2: these fireplaces were typically very large. A reminder about where

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Speaker 2: we are in this story, Rebecca Briggs Cornell had long

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Speaker 2: lost to her beloved husband, Thomas Senior. Despite some bad

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Speaker 2: business decisions involving taverns, her husband had seemed to be

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Speaker 2: a good man.

81
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Speaker 3: So up until now, we've.

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Speaker 5: Got a family that seems fairly.

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Speaker 2: Traumatized from events they lost.

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Speaker 5: The patriarch.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if he was considered a good father, if

86
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Speaker 2: he was.

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Speaker 6: Kind of a jerk.

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Speaker 5: I don't really know what type of a father he was.

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Speaker 5: I believe that he really tried.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, but that is based on some of

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Speaker 3: what we know of what Rebecca said in terms of

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Speaker 3: not wanting to disadvantage her other children in favor of

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Speaker 3: Thomas Junior.

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Speaker 2: I asked carry about that inheritance. These days, an inheritance

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Speaker 2: could mean land, savings, stocks, vehicles, gold, almost anything. But

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Speaker 2: what about in the sixteen hundreds.

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Speaker 5: What kind of inheritance do you think this is?

98
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Speaker 3: So most of their money would be tied up in land,

99
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Speaker 3: would be tied up in cattle.

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Speaker 5: But the kind of things that.

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Speaker 3: Would be inherited would be clothes. You would inherit books,

102
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Speaker 3: you would inherit furniture, plates, silverware, just things like that,

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Speaker 3: farm equipment, livestock, the actual physical materials of living and

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Speaker 3: being able to live. Those were precious at the time

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Speaker 3: because they were all that you had in addition to land.

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Speaker 5: But land is.

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Speaker 3: Only as good as what you can get out of it.

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Speaker 2: At this point in the sixteen hundreds, the quality of

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Speaker 2: the land you owned was important.

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Speaker 3: There's no real estate market like, oh, these views are wonderful.

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Speaker 3: This is Can I farm this land? Can I graze

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Speaker 3: cattle on this land? Because that's what's going to make

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Speaker 3: me money and that's what's going to enable me to live.

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Speaker 2: According to his late father's will, Thomas Junior could farm

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Speaker 2: the land, but until his mother died, Rebecca would own

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Speaker 2: the rights to the house and the property, and Thomas

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Speaker 2: had to pay her rent. At this point, Thomas had

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Speaker 2: borrowed one hundred pounds from Rebecca, which is more than

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Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars today, so he was in debt to her,

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Speaker 2: and of course he would have preferred that she forgive

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Speaker 2: that loan. Thomas Junior said that the loan was for improvements,

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Speaker 2: but he was never specific about what those were.

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Speaker 7: He and his.

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Speaker 2: Wife, Sarah were often a little secretive. Carrie Nolty and

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Speaker 2: historian Anne Burns think that Thomas may have wanted to

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Speaker 2: add an addition to the house.

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Speaker 5: Maybe he wants to raise the roof to give more.

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Speaker 3: Living space up above, because all of his children exteph

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Speaker 3: for I believe two had moved out, but all the

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Speaker 3: rest of his children and him and his wife and

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Speaker 3: a servant and a border are living in the lofted

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Speaker 3: upstairs space.

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Speaker 1: Instead of paying rent to his mother, He wanted one

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Speaker 1: hundred pounds to expand the home. And she said, now,

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Speaker 1: so like that is that is a fair statement, Like

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Speaker 1: there was not any lovelocks between the two of them.

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Speaker 1: But she felt as though he would already received a lot.

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Speaker 1: He got that property, and she her reason for not

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Speaker 1: wanting to give him any more financial benefit was because

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Speaker 1: she felt it was unfair to her other children. Though

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Speaker 1: if she gave him one hundred pounds, you know, it

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Speaker 1: took away from them. So that's that was the reasons

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Speaker 1: she supposedly it was supposedly out of fairness to her

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Speaker 1: other children who didn't get anything.

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Speaker 2: They had a servant, which meant that the family had

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Speaker 2: some extra money, but they also had a border. They

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Speaker 2: needed all the income they could get. Sarah weaved and

148
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Speaker 2: cooked upstairs, which was cramped. Carrie Noulty and Gloria Schmidt

149
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Speaker 2: said they all slept up there in small rooms.

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Speaker 3: Whereas Rebecca has the larger south facing room with its

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Speaker 3: own separate entrance and exit. So it's cramped, o sirs,

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Speaker 3: it's cramped. Upstairs is cramped in a living quarters. And

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Speaker 3: to be honest, even though Rebecca has the biggest room,

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Speaker 3: this is not.

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Speaker 5: You know, what you would think of as like roomy.

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Speaker 3: This is seventeenth century roomy.

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Speaker 7: Some diagrams that I've seen have her, you know, on

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Speaker 7: the bottom floor, and she has path of the whole house,

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Speaker 7: so she has the great room. I think she had

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Speaker 7: the master fireplace too, and everybody else. And you've got

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Speaker 7: to concern that they were at least three of his

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Speaker 7: older sons. There were another two daughters. There was Sarah,

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Speaker 7: There was someone that was a rumor all in the

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Speaker 7: other half of the place.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca had grown more sullen as the years wore on.

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Speaker 2: Her husband was gone, most of her children were too

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Speaker 2: far flung to visit regularly. Her son and his wife

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Speaker 2: were displeased with their living arrangements, and they certainly let

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Speaker 2: Rebecca know how they felt. Bright spot in her life

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Speaker 2: seemed to be her grandchildren.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca was normally never alone. She always had a grandchild

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Speaker 1: or her son, or somebody in the room with her,

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Speaker 1: almost suddenly keeping her company.

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Speaker 2: Seems like the routine of an older woman with grandchildren,

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Speaker 2: retired from the hectic life of raising her own family.

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Speaker 2: And Rebecca also seemed fond of her brother, John Briggs,

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Speaker 2: who lived not very far from them. He'll become a

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Speaker 2: central character soon. But the Briggs family also came over

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Speaker 2: to America from England in the sixteen hundreds. So Thomas Cornell,

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Speaker 2: Mary's Rebecca Briggs. What do we know, if anything, about

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Speaker 2: the Briggs family when they come over. Do we know

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Speaker 2: if it was even just her brother John, or did

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Speaker 2: he bring other people?

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Speaker 3: So generally it's not just one. When we think of

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Speaker 3: a family moving from one place to another, we'd think

186
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Speaker 3: of it as just you know, the mother, the father,

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Speaker 3: the kids if they have any, or you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: a mother and some kids.

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Speaker 5: Or which kind of a much smaller unit.

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Speaker 3: When people moved in the Great Migration, they tend to

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Speaker 3: move in groups.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca's younger brother, John Briggs, had arrived in New England first,

193
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Speaker 2: and he was considered one of the founders of Portsmith,

194
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Speaker 2: like the Cornells and the Hutchinsons. By sixteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: John Briggs had been living in Portsmith for forty years and

196
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Speaker 2: he was heavily involved in the politics of the colony,

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Speaker 2: which made him very powerful.

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Speaker 7: He was quite an important person in town. You know,

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Speaker 7: he would have been a leader. He would have been

200
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 7: very well respected.

201
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 2: John Briggs had a lot of credibility in the colony,

202
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:51,160
Speaker 2: and credibility often meant power and influence. Remember that it

203
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Speaker 2: sounds like the Cornells followed the Briggs to America in

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Speaker 2: the early sixteen hundreds, which is a common story in

205
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Speaker 2: our country's history.

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Speaker 3: What happened is you kind of get this sort of

207
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,839
Speaker 3: chain of people who keep going over as their circumstances

208
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Speaker 3: change a.

209
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Speaker 5: Little bit, and they all have the same idea.

210
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Speaker 3: They want to go and go into a new world

211
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Speaker 3: and create.

212
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Speaker 5: A new life for themselves the way that they see fit.

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Speaker 3: So huge groups would go and one of the things

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Speaker 3: that we know is that they probably knew the hutchinsons,

215
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 3: Anne Hutchinson and her husband from the Essex area, and

216
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Speaker 3: they had gone before.

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Speaker 2: So when they all moved to Boston, they had a

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Speaker 2: built in community.

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Speaker 3: It's almost never like, you know, hey, me and your

220
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,679
Speaker 3: dad are taking you three kids to this entirely new

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Speaker 3: place and you're going to know no one. That's generally

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Speaker 3: not what happened when families move.

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Speaker 2: There was also quite a lot of intermingling of colonial families,

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Speaker 2: and that included the Briggs and the Cornells.

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Speaker 7: You had a brother and sister marrying a brother and sister.

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Speaker 7: So Rebecca was a Briggs and marrying a Cornell, but

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Speaker 7: there was a Ornell the sister that married John Briggs.

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Speaker 7: That had to be a fairly tight relationship if you

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Speaker 7: had a brother and sister marrying a brother and sister.

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Speaker 7: But John Briggs would enter very mightily in this story.

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Speaker 2: But the Briggs family won't enter the story quite yet.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca had complained for years about how Thomas and his

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Speaker 2: wife treated her. She was especially angry at her daughter

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Speaker 2: in law, Sarah.

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Speaker 3: We have stories and they could be as far back

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Speaker 3: as five years, maybe before that, but we do know

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Speaker 3: that she used to get along quite well with Thomas's

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Speaker 3: first wife, and she did not get along at all

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Speaker 3: with Thomas's second wife.

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Speaker 7: She was very agreeable to helping out with the kids, etc.

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Speaker 7: With the first wife because she liked the first wife,

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Speaker 7: and it was the second wife that she didn't like.

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Speaker 7: So that's when there started to be a rup.

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Speaker 2: Seventeenth century colonists had all suffered hardships to stay in

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Speaker 2: America to preserve their freedoms, but Rebecca Briggs Cornell had

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Speaker 2: suffered a raft full of misfortune. She had narrowly survived

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Speaker 2: a massacre decades earlier. She watched her closest friend's home

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Speaker 2: burn to the ground, knowing how Anne Hutchinson must have died.

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Speaker 2: To her mother in law, Sarah Earl Cornell seemed very temperamental.

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Speaker 2: At a minimum, she was certainly high strung. But Portsmouth

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Speaker 2: historian Gloria Schmidt says that there was a big difference

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Speaker 2: between visiting your sister in law and living with her,

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Speaker 2: and that was the difference between Rebecca's feelings about Thomas's

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Speaker 2: first wife and his second wife.

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Speaker 7: Where it looks like Thomas really moved in with his

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Speaker 7: mother was when he was a widower. So there's a

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Speaker 7: lot of difference between two separate households and going to

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Speaker 7: visit or having Sunday dinner together than it is being

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Speaker 7: basically in a two room house and having one person

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Speaker 7: half half of it and everybody else in the other half.

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Speaker 2: Gloria says that the arrangement would have frustrated most people,

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Speaker 2: and it almost didn't seem fair.

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Speaker 7: She had the majority, and that would have been very

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Speaker 7: tough on Sarah because Sarah would have had to have

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Speaker 7: managed this house, you know, without much help, and that

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Speaker 7: would have been a pretty difficult situation for Thomas's second wife.

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Speaker 2: I thought that the arrangement was unusual. Would a dying

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Speaker 2: man really give his wife in the seventeenth century total

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Speaker 2: control over the money and the property. Anne Burns and

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Speaker 2: Gloria Schmidt say that Rebecca seemed to be a very

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Speaker 2: special person, and her husband knew it.

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of different wills when men have died,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't sound that outrageous to me.

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Speaker 5: That doesn't sound to me.

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Speaker 1: A lot of men made wills that took care of

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Speaker 1: their wives for the rest of their wives lives, and

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Speaker 1: then things were this burstup afterwards, so that I don't

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Speaker 1: find that that as unusual.

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Speaker 7: If she's a strong woman, then you know, he might

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Speaker 7: think that she deserves to control her own faith.

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Speaker 2: We all know that Rebecca Briggs Cornell was a strong woman,

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Speaker 2: but when she was in her seventies, she seemed depressed

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Speaker 2: and upset with her life, even despondent at times. And

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Speaker 2: it sounds like Thomas felt trapped by his father's will.

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Speaker 2: He couldn't abandon the land he would eventually own, but

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Speaker 2: he also had a difficult time appeasing his new wife.

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Speaker 7: By that time that he remarried, he'd already gotten himself

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Speaker 7: into the situation with the mother and couldn't separate himself.

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Speaker 7: You know, the land was promised to him, he was

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Speaker 7: supposed to take care of it, et cetera, and so forth.

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Speaker 2: But it sounds like Rebecca was having regrets over that

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Speaker 2: agreement with Thomas. June her.

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Speaker 7: I think that you know, you have these you know,

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Speaker 7: situations where she agreed to let Thomas have the land eventually.

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Speaker 7: But she said if she had known about this second wife,

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Speaker 7: or if the second wife had been in the picture,

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Speaker 7: she would not have agreed to that.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so there really was acrimony in that house between

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Speaker 2: Rebecca and Sarah. How miserable that must have been for Thomas.

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Speaker 2: Let's try to get a sense of the tense relationship

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Speaker 2: between Rebecca and her daughter in law. First, let me

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Speaker 2: explain the history of Sarah's family. She was an earl,

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Speaker 2: which was a very important name in New England.

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Speaker 7: She was from a prominent family and she would have

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Speaker 7: been you know, she would have had a fairly well

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Speaker 7: brought up environment and her side of the family was

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Speaker 7: very strong in town as well. So yeah, she wasn't

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Speaker 7: a poor girl. She was fairly prominent and would have

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Speaker 7: had a good upbringing, and you know, coming from a

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Speaker 7: place where maybe she was catered to, you know, in

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Speaker 7: her home growing up, she would have had a cook,

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Speaker 7: she would have had people doing the cleaning and you know,

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Speaker 7: tending to the animals and so forth. And she was

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Speaker 7: in the circumstance with Thomas Junior where all of that

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Speaker 7: kind of fell on her.

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Speaker 2: Why would Sarah marry Thomas Cornell rather than a wealthier man.

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Speaker 2: She's described as attractive. She was twenty years younger than

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Speaker 2: he was, and she likely had many suitors. Why Thomas

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Speaker 2: Cornell I wonder if he didn't disclose his unusual circumstances

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Speaker 2: to Sarah before he began courting her. The Cornell's acreage

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Speaker 2: could be very profitable, except he didn't technically own it.

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Speaker 2: Their large home was prominent, except he paid his mother rent.

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Speaker 2: There seemed to be little expendable income, and that was

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Speaker 2: not the life that Sarah Earle had been used to.

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Speaker 2: I asked Anne Burns why Sarah and Thomas didn't ask

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Speaker 2: her own family for money rather than go to his mother.

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Speaker 2: Anne thinks it was about pride.

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Speaker 1: It was a very patriarchal society at the time. The

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Speaker 1: men were supposed to take care of their families. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know, maybe it wasn't considered something that

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Speaker 1: they felt they.

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Speaker 5: Needed to do. And maybe Sarah was miserable. Who knows,

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Speaker 5: maybe her family didn't like her.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: As a property owner, Thomas Cornell should have been well off.

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Speaker 2: If he had control over his own land, he could

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Speaker 2: have expanded, He could have sold off pieces of it

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Speaker 2: to make more money, and he could have built a

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Speaker 2: colonial real estate empire by making his own decisions. But

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Speaker 2: Rebecca kept control so Thomas Cornell would be inert until

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Speaker 2: it became his.

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Speaker 7: She had some sort of an agreement to pass the

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Speaker 7: land on to Thomas, but only at her death, so

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Speaker 7: she had certain requirements, you know, while she was still alive,

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Speaker 7: and so he was kind of hanging on. It made

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Speaker 7: it difficult for him. He couldn't compete with the other

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Speaker 7: men who were going out and buying other plots of

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Speaker 7: land or you know, he did raise horses and things

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Speaker 7: like that, but he couldn't keep up with what the

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Speaker 7: other men of his age group were doing because he

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Speaker 7: was kind of tied to Rebecca in this particular plot

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Speaker 7: of land, and so it was a strain on him

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Speaker 7: as well.

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Speaker 2: On top of that, Sarah seemed to be easily irritated

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Speaker 2: and outspoken. Portsmouth historian Anne Burns says that was not

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Speaker 2: good news for her mother in law.

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Speaker 1: Sarah did not hold back her opinion. From what I consens,

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Speaker 1: she really didn't have a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of discretion, and it sounds like Sarah's brashness and lack

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Speaker 2: of reverence really affect did Rebecca rest in peace?

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Speaker 1: Rebecca, but she sounds kind of miserable, you know. She

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Speaker 1: sounds like she just they just couldn't get along. She

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Speaker 1: badmouthed her daughter on law to everybody. She made them

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Speaker 1: sound that her son was ungrateful, wouldn't pay her rent,

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Speaker 1: and that they were lazy.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca claimed to friends and neighbors that Thomas made her

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Speaker 2: drag herself out of the house year round, even in

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Speaker 2: the winter, to tend to the livestock herself, and that

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Speaker 2: included sheep.

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Speaker 7: Sheep were one of the big agricultural endeavors that the

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Speaker 7: Portsmouth people had. She was noted for her spinning, so

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Speaker 7: they must have had, you know, good wool production. And

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Speaker 7: so she complains about the pigs and complains about having

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Speaker 7: to care for the animals. She talked to a lot

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Speaker 7: of people about her what she saw as the faults

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Speaker 7: and her son.

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Speaker 1: They didn't take care of her, didn't take care of

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Speaker 1: the property, didn't do what they said they were going

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Speaker 1: to do, left her cold night, didn't won the fire.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so she really painted this out far and

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Speaker 1: wide for years.

382
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Speaker 2: Rebecca essentially claimed that she was experiencing elder abuse. They

383
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Speaker 2: didn't take proper care of her property, of her house,

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Speaker 2: and of her. It seems like a clear lack of

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Speaker 2: respect for the matriarch of the Cornell family, one of

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Speaker 2: the founding families of Portsmouth. Elder abuse is still a

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Speaker 2: problem today. The CDC says that elder abuse can be physical, emotional, sexual,

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Speaker 2: or financial abuse. Neglect is also on the list. According

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Speaker 2: to the CDC, abuse including neglect and exploitation is experienced

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Speaker 2: by about one in ten people aged sixty or older

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Speaker 2: who live at home. Rebecca Cornell might have been one

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Speaker 2: of those people. Gloria Schmidt questions some of Rebecca's stories

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Speaker 2: because Rebecca may have actually had expectations of her son

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Speaker 2: that were just too high.

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Speaker 7: Gail, A lot of things Rebecca complaints about. We hear

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Speaker 7: them people saying that Rebecca is making the complaints. I'm

397
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Speaker 7: not hearing too much of this is what I witnessed.

398
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Speaker 7: You know, I heard, you know, Rebecca told me you

399
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Speaker 7: know this, that and the other.

400
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Speaker 2: Gloria says that Thomas must have felt trapped, and that

401
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: seems really likely because people liked to gossip, even in

402
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Speaker 2: colonial times.

403
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Speaker 7: So I'm not quite sure if people are attached to Rebecca,

404
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 7: they're going to take her side of it and going

405
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Speaker 7: to talk about how Thomas was not really a good

406
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Speaker 7: son and he might not have been as dutiful. But

407
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Speaker 7: I think, you know, in that kind of situation, he's

408
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 7: being you know, pulled in the direction between his immediate

409
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 7: family and his mother in you know, trying to walk

410
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 7: that fine line of being a good son and a

411
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Speaker 7: good husband.

412
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Speaker 2: We'll see, but anyway, much of the fighting is over

413
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: the house. This house which is now the Valley Inn

414
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: in Portsmouth in the eighteen hundreds. It was remodeled when

415
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: it burned down. Its owner, Joe Ochie, gave Carrie and

416
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: me a tour last in November. Today it's a great restaurant.

417
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: But Joe's father bought the home in nineteen fifty seven

418
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 2: and he actually lived there when he was a young man.

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Speaker 1: How are you?

420
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Speaker 6: You told you before? You know that the main door

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00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 6: is the other side?

422
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 5: You know the other way too?

423
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 3: We knocked in, Yeah, I think he did pears the

424
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Speaker 3: first time.

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Speaker 5: And then all right.

426
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Speaker 6: Where do you want to say?

427
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 5: Wherever you want?

428
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: And where is the original? Is there an original part

429
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: to it? Or what?

430
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Speaker 6: Wherever you see wooden floors? That's what this is all

431
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Speaker 6: the addition that the nineteenth century.

432
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Speaker 5: Yeah, will you take us on a little tour and just.

433
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Speaker 6: Show me where they're downstairs? I can show you some

434
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 6: of that. Basically, this was an exterior wall. This was

435
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 6: an exterior wall. The original house was built in sixteen

436
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 6: forty six. They did have a fire and they rebuilt

437
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 6: and the third floor was added in eighteen I think

438
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 6: ninety two. So the house, other than the addition, as

439
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 6: it stands, was then. The way you can tell a

440
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 6: lot is in the fanciness of the woodwork, the carvings

441
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 6: like that. That's an eighteen hundred's look. The original ones

442
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 6: were much plainer, you know, just plain pine and of

443
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 6: course they heated with fire. They didn't have oil or gas.

444
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Speaker 6: So back to back fireplaces. A lot of those touches

445
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 6: are throughout this building. The building as it stands has

446
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 6: nine bedrooms, seven fireplaces. It was the main big manor

447
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 6: house of what was originally a four hundred acre farm.

448
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 6: And this is the Cornell This is the Cornell Cornell House.

449
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: And so the original sixteen forty three era stuff is

450
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: the wood floors.

451
00:25:59,440 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 6: Correct?

452
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: Would that have been where Rebecca Cornell died?

453
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 6: Yes, So what we're trying.

454
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: To figure out is what is your understanding of the

455
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: space in that time, because how close is she to

456
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 2: the fireplace? You know that hole.

457
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 6: Well, she had retired to her room. Now this side

458
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 6: here where you're looking, this was always a parlor. Back then,

459
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 6: all the big old homes had front parlors. The reason

460
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 6: is a bit morbid, is because there were no such

461
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 6: thing as funeral homes, so they all had the front

462
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 6: parlors for displaying of the deceased. So that's what this

463
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 6: room was Originally. That would have been a dining room,

464
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. By her age, she

465
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 6: had moved in and forgive me, I've got storage in here.

466
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 6: She had moved into an area like this because she

467
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 6: was elderly. She didn't go upstairs, so that most likely

468
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 6: is where in this area?

469
00:26:54,119 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And back in sixteen twenty three, there was

470
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: obvious tension in this house. Rebecca was both weary and

471
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: weary of Sarah Earle. The elderly woman felt nervous around

472
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: her daughter in law, and there seemed to be good

473
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: reason Sarah might have been violent.

474
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 5: At one point.

475
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: There's a report that she had to intervene when Sarah

476
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: Earl was chasing one of her stepchildren with an axe.

477
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: Oh and she was seventy years old and she had

478
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 3: to stop Sarah from chasing this child with an axe.

479
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: Now we don't know much about that claim. Was Rebecca

480
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: exaggerating to get sympathy from friends, or did she have

481
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: a good reason to be fearful of her daughter in

482
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: law and her morose son. This brings us to that

483
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 2: February of sixteen seventy three and the events that would

484
00:27:49,160 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 2: make criminal history. In true crime, we often bring up

485
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: stressors and then inciting moments. So far, we've talked about

486
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: the stressors, the financial disagreements, the strong personalities, the grief

487
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: over losing the patriarch of the family, and the loads

488
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: of kids crammed onto the top floor. But that February

489
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: and Rhode Island was particularly trying.

490
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 7: So, yeah, there's a lot of stress on too many

491
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 7: people in one house. We're talking February, and that's got

492
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 7: to be a situation where you're not outside and you're

493
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 7: not doing a things, you're just you know, trying to

494
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 7: stay warm inside. So there's there's more I would think

495
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 7: that there would be more room for friction.

496
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: On that cold, miserable February night, Rebecca Cornell was not

497
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: feeling well and she listened as her grandchildren played on

498
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: the floor above she glanced at the windows in her room,

499
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: total darkness.

500
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: The date is February eighth, sixteen seventy three, and it

501
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 3: is a new moon, which means there is absolutely no light.

502
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: A large fire crackled in the fireplace near her rocking chair.

503
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: She was bundled in multiple layers, a mishmash of wool

504
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: and cotton clothes meant for warmth and durability. Her hands

505
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: were cold, and she was feeling particularly poor all day long.

506
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: Sarah and Thomas said that Rebecca wouldn't always dine with them,

507
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: It depended on what kind of mood she was in.

508
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 7: When Thomas came home, supposedly he went in and spent

509
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 7: some time with her.

510
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: So we're told that Thomas Junior goes into his mother's

511
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: chamber and sits with.

512
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 5: Her for an hour or an.

513
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: Hour and a half, and that she hadn't been feeling well.

514
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: Carrie is saying, we're told because the only people who

515
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: truly know what happened that night were Rebecca Cornell and

516
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: her son Thomas. No one else was downstairs. After ninety

517
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: minutes with his mother, Thomas left and went upstairs to

518
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: his family. The family all sat down to dinner. The

519
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: kids turned to their father and had a question.

520
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: They asked, where's grandmother And they're told that she is

521
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 3: not dining with them because they're having only mackerel for dinner.

522
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: Salted mackerel and makes her dry in the night, which

523
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: means she gets thirsty and she has to go up

524
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: and there's no bathroom. At this point, you have to

525
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: go outside in February in Rhode Island with no moonlight.

526
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: As the story continues, this salted mackerel will come up

527
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: a lot. People who knew Rebecca claimed she would never

528
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: turn down salted mackerel under normal circumstances, but who knows.

529
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: Almost sounded like she maybe she was in a bad mood,

530
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: was it?

531
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: She wasn't feeling well earlier.

532
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: In the day, but then she said she felt better

533
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: later in the day. Maybe she really didn't want to

534
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: eat the mackerel.

535
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: I asked Joe Ochi, the owner of the Valley Inn,

536
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: about that night.

537
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 6: She had by that point had had a reputation, or

538
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 6: started to gain a reputation as somewhat of an eccentric.

539
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 6: So you can infer what you will, you know, possibly

540
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 6: witchy WITCHI, yeah, but in reality, in our thinking, I'm

541
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 6: sure maybe a touch of dementia. Who knows. But whatever

542
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 6: the case may be, let's say that perhaps she was

543
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 6: a little angry and a little awe or a little whatever.

544
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 6: So she didn't like what they were having for dinner

545
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 6: that night, so they went about their dinner.

546
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: In the wintertime, Rebecca Cornell calmed her nerves by weaving

547
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: using her loom. The wooden wheel hummed as she threaded

548
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: wool through it. She puffed on her pipe as she worked.

549
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: Weaving was methodical and relaxing. Her Bible lay nearby, a

550
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: symbol of her intense faith. Decades earlier, Anne Hutchinson had

551
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: inspired her to explore religion, and her faith in God

552
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: had kept her safe despite all the hardships her family

553
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: had faced.

554
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 7: Rebecca Cornell would be a very devoted Quaker later on

555
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 7: in her life. So a lot of these people that

556
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 7: were strong with Anne, we're of the Quaker faith.

557
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: As Rebecca stared at the fire, she daydreamed about her future.

558
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: She had a secret that she had told very few people.

559
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: She soon hoped to leave her home for good. Rebecca

560
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: wanted a new life with one of her other children,

561
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: and one of her other sons had agreed to let

562
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: her move in. That might have been, as we say

563
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: in true crime, the inciting incident.

564
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: So after dinner, Sarah Earle asks her youngest stepson, Edward,

565
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: to go in and ask his grandmother whether or not

566
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: she would like some boiled milk for supper. And he

567
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: goes in and he comes running back out and he says,

568
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: I need a candle. There seems to be fire on

569
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: the floor.

570
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: Shadows bounced across the walls of Rebecca's large room, and

571
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: his parents stood in the doorway as one of the

572
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: farm hands hovered nearby the fire in the fireplace. Raged,

573
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: Edward pointed down to the floor.

574
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: Everybody rushes in because fire is a huge danger in

575
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 3: this time. Fire can come and completely rip your life apart.

576
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: There's no insurance.

577
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 5: Everything you own is in that house.

578
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 3: You'll be without clothes, you'll lose your life, You'll lose

579
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: everything you own.

580
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 5: So they go in and they.

581
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: See coals fire upon the floor. The hired man, Henry Straight,

582
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: rakes the coals and the fire away.

583
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: Henry Straight was Native American, and he thought that the

584
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: person on the floor was an inebriated Native American man.

585
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: He shook him and tried to speak the language to him.

586
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: Thomas Cornell leaned forward and stared at the figure on

587
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 2: the floor. He suddenly cried out.

588
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 3: And then Thomas says, oh lord, it is my mother.

589
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 2: The story of the story to Cornell family of New

590
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: England is just starting, and boy does it take some

591
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 2: strange turns. It all starts with a death and a ghost.

592
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: It's insanity. It is you can't make the top.

593
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 5: You really can't. The ghost to the ghost. So tell

594
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: me that story.

595
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 2: What's your understanding of the ghost story?

596
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 6: Well, to me, a lot of it has to do

597
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 6: with the time they were living in and the uniqueness

598
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 6: of the strangeness of what people believed, and how things

599
00:35:49,920 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 6: can quickly get out of hand.

600
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Timfold were wicked on exactly right.

601
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: They had found Rebecca Briggs Cornell laid on her left side,

602
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: burned from her torso to the tops of her legs

603
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 3: and dead.

604
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 6: So a frail, older woman without benefit of a light

605
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 6: switch to turn on is you know, trips false dice?

606
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 6: Probably should have been the end of the story.

607
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 7: The only strange thing was that she had on wool

608
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 7: and cotton, and usually the wool will not burn, but

609
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 7: the cotton will. And in this case, it was the opposite.

610
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 7: The wool burned but the cotton did not. So there

611
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 7: are a lot of things that don't add up that

612
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 7: been so many cases, all individuals dying by being set

613
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 7: on fire.

614
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: She never ever said that she was murdered, but apparently

615
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: it was enough for him to say, hmm, I wonder

616
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: if something happened.

617
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: If you love true crime, check out my books American

618
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: Sherlock and All That Is Wicked. I also have an

619
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: audio book called The Ghost Club. I can't wait to

620
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 2: tell you the real story about the world's most famous

621
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Speaker 2: ghost hunter, who was the head of the world's most

622
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Speaker 2: famous ghost club and how he investigated England's most famous

623
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 2: haunted house. This has been an exactly right tenfold More

624
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: Media production producer Jason Whaling, Senior producer Alexis and Morosi.

625
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: Consulting producer Kyle Ryan, researcher Nicole Brown, sound designer Eric Friend,

626
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: Additional sound design by Nicholas Mooney's composer Curtis Heath, artwork

627
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: Nick Toga. Executive producers Georgia hart Stark, Karen Kilgarriff, and

628
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 2: Danielle kra Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold More. Wicked,