1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to the Summer Movie Playlist, the 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: place where we grouped some fun movie content because the 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: summer movie season. We thought you might like this, so 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: we gave it a shot, and today you're going to 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: be listening to the replay of our episode on Black Clansman, 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: the true story behind that movie. It's a great movie. 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: Love it, love Spike Lee, and this is a great one. 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy the show. 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks dot com. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 3: Charles Bryant, there's Jerry over there. You put the three 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 3: of us together. It's movie crush. I mean stuff you 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: should know. 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: This does have some stank on it doesn't it. It's 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: a movie stank. 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: I know your game is cool. 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: I didn't even ask you have you seen Black clans 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: I I was. 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 3: Like, I can't. I can't do this episode without having 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: seen it. So I watched it last night. 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Oh nice, Yeah good? 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: Huh Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. Like I like his 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 3: choice at the end, like just completely pull a somersault 24 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: on the viewer. 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: Oh sure with that last bet. 26 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. Like spoiler alert there's an end spoilery, Yeah, for sure, 27 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: we should probably say that out of the gate. If 28 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 3: you haven't seen this yet and you don't want it 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: to be spoiled, don't listen to this episode first. Yes, 30 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 3: but yeah, I guess now that we've said that, we 31 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: can speak freely. Right. 32 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: Yes, So. 33 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: The if, if the entire movie was basically to disarm 34 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: you up to the end, then I think it's one 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: of the greatest movies I've ever seen in my life. 36 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: And even if it wasn't, that wasn't the entire point 37 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: of the movie. It was still it was still great. 38 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: And how he pulled it out at the end, I think. 39 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well this was I don't know if you remember, 40 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: but this is the movie I saw in Perth, Australia. Ye, 41 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: that happens at the end, that big, you know, sort 42 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: of gut punch of realism at the end, And I 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: stood up and I was like, hmm, Like, wonder what 44 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: they're thinking here in Perth. 45 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: They probably think of what just happened? What's wrong with America? 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm going, I my good to see you. 47 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm not American. 48 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 3: I'm Canadian. Can't you tell bloke? 49 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: Oh goodness? Yeah? It was. It was one of those 50 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: things where I was like, I'm kind of slightly embarrassed 51 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: right now. 52 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I like that. 53 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: I enjoyed the movie though I thought to see Spike Lee, 54 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: who just he's one of my favorite filmmakers in his sixties, 55 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: still just bringing the juice like this. I loved it. 56 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. I also loved that it was controversial too, in 57 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 3: that like some people criticize Spike Lee for like not 58 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: going far enough or maybe kind of glossing over some 59 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: of the ugly aspects of the story. 60 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you want to get to that at the end, maybe. 61 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. But we'll give it a pre 62 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 3: mention shout out, which is what we just did. 63 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: Right, So we are talking about the true story of 64 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the film Black Clansman, Spike Lee's movie that won the 65 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: Grand Prize at the con Film Festival. It's nominated for 66 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: Academy Awards. 67 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, three Oscars, I believe for including Best. 68 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: Picture, Yeah, I think Picture Director, and. 69 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 3: Supporting Actor for who I would guess Adam Driver. I 70 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 3: didn't see really. Yeah, I was surprised because Denzel's son 71 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: did a wonderful job as well. 72 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: He loves he loves that being known as that right. 73 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: I can't remember his first name, but you know, Denzel's son. 74 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: He was like. There were several times when he was 75 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: talking and I was like, oh, you are definitely Denzel 76 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: Washington's son man, just the way he talked, the sound 77 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: of his voice. But also is acting too, he's a 78 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: good actor. 79 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for 80 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: Adam Driver, Best Director, and Best Original Music Score. 81 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: Oh nice, but yeah he is. 82 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know he was Denzel Sun till after the movie. 83 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see that. 84 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: And he was a football player, do you know that. 85 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: I didn't who he played for. 86 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: He played for Morehouse here in Atlanta. He was a 87 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: running back and then played an NFL on the practice 88 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: squad for the Rams, and then eventually played a few 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: years in NFL Europe and the UFL until he hung 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: up his cleats six years ago. 91 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. Yeah, playing football in Europe has got 92 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: to be a surreal experience. 93 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's a soccer ball. 94 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: Everyone's like, what are you doing? This is all wrong? 95 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: All right? So should we way back into the nineteen seventies, 96 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: the groovy seventies of Denver, Colorado. 97 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: First we should say his name is John David Washington. 98 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 3: Oh sure you were kidding, Denzel Son. Yes, so yeah, 99 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 3: let's get in the way back machine and see go 100 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 3: inspect their terrible low quality pot. 101 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: So Ron Stalworth is the true to life character's name 102 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: who There was a football player growing when we were 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: growing up named John Stalworth. So I'm always wanting to 104 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: say John Stalworth. 105 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: This is not him. This is a cop named Ron Stalworth, 106 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 3: that's right. 107 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: And he had a few designations that are pretty important. 108 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: He was the first African American police officer to work 109 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: for the Colorado Springs Police Department, which he joined as 110 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: a cadet at the age of nineteen. Yeah, in seventy two, 111 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: and then a couple of years later on his twenty 112 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: first birthday. On his twenty first. 113 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 3: Birthday, that's what I saw he had June eighteenth. 114 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: I believe nice was sworn in as a full on 115 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: officer of the law. 116 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: Right, And I'm not sure if like they just swear 117 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: you in on your twenty first birthday or if it 118 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: just so happened. That's all right in ceremony was on 119 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: his twenty first birthday, but wardless, it was a big deal. 120 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: He's the first African American cop and then later on 121 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: detective for Colorado Spring. So that's a big deal, especially 122 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: starting out at age twenty one too. That takes a 123 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: lot of cajones as they call it in Colorado. 124 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: No, I think they call those rocky Mountain oysters. 125 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: That's right, that is what they call him for sure. 126 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: So he worked undercover for about thirty years long, great 127 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: careers and undercover detective. But it was this case which 128 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: only came out about four years ago when he wrote 129 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: a book about it about his career when he went 130 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: undercover as a well as a klansman. But it's a 131 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: little more complicated than that. 132 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: It was a very complicated operation, right. 133 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, And this wasn't something that like, I mean, he 134 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: even says in this NPR interview that he didn't. It 135 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: was just a job at that particular point in time. 136 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: And when that particular job ended, that is the undercover, 137 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: which was about what eight or nine months, I moved 138 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: on to something else and it just happened by circumstance. 139 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: So he didn't come in there with a bone to 140 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: pick with the Klan, aside from probably every bone to 141 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: pick that he had with the Klan, right, just as 142 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: a black man in America. 143 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and it would probably help to give a 144 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 3: little background on the Klan at the time, because you know, 145 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: the Klan was very well known for being really big 146 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 3: and really violent at over three waves is basically how 147 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: the clan history is divided. Yeah, Like the first wave 148 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: was when they were they were founded in the wake 149 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: of the Civil War. Then they had the second wave 150 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: came around the nineteen teens, like nineteen fifty fifteen, I 151 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: mean that era, and then they had another big resurgence 152 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 3: during the Civil Rights era in the fifties and sixties. 153 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 3: But you know, in between these waves and after that 154 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: third wave, it's not like the Clan just went away. 155 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: They kept on. Their profile was lower and maybe there 156 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: the public violence or terrorism that they were engaging in 157 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: wasn't quite as pronounced, but they were still there. And 158 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: in Colorado in particular, they had a really long history 159 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: with the Klan, where basically the city of Denver was 160 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: in under the control of the Klan back in the twenties, 161 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: just you know, fifty years before Ron Stalwart started working there. 162 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was when he got hired there, he 163 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: got access to files like secret FBI files, right, and 164 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: he got to go in and dig in and look 165 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: at the history of the clan in Colorado, and boy, 166 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: like you ain't kidding. They were in the House of Representatives. 167 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 1: There were senators. 168 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 3: Both senators were clans members. 169 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: The Mayor Benjamin Stapleton, who the airport was named after 170 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: until ninety five. 171 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, his great grandson ran for governor on the GOP 172 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 3: ticket this past election and lost to who is Colorado's 173 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: first ever openly gay Jewish governor. 174 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Colorado is a weird state. 175 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: It is an odd state for a. 176 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: Lot of different ideologies all packed in together. 177 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 3: It's very purple in all sorts of ways. 178 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Mayor Benjamin Stapleton was a clan member. The 179 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: governor Clarence Morley was a clan member. The chief of police, 180 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: which is I mean, you don't want anyone in these 181 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: positions to be clan members, but I imagine the chief 182 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: of police is one of the more problematic areas to 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: have a person in that kind of control. 184 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: Particularly that one too. He was basically he was picked 185 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: by the clan, the Colorado Clan, and basically foisted on 186 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 3: Benjamin Stapleton, who who was even like, wow, this guy's 187 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: even too much for my tastes and eventually fired him. 188 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 3: But like the clan picked the chief of police of Denver, 189 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 3: Colorado back in the twenties. 190 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And they tried to recall Stapleton at one point. 191 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: It didn't work, and when that effort failed, the Klan 192 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: burned across on the top of Table Mountain as a celebration, 193 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: a show of public celebration. 194 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: Right, So the clan has deep roots and an old 195 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: story in Colorado, or at least they used to, and 196 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: they were still very much around when ron Stalworth started 197 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 3: as his investigation or started as the first black detective 198 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 3: in Colorado Springs, right, that's right. And so he started 199 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 3: out I guess, his kind of playing clothes and was 200 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: assigned undercover work pretty quickly just by his just by 201 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: being the only African American officer in the police force. 202 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: Because Stokely Carmichael came to town once. 203 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: That's right. And this is in the film. We're going 204 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: to talk about a few differences between the movie and 205 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: the real story. But he did, in fact go to 206 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: a speech in a rally by famous black panther Stokely Carmichael, 207 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: and he was, you know, fully kitted out in his 208 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: bell bottoms, and his wearing a wire, he picked his 209 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: afro out, and he in fact did make a point 210 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: to meet him, just like he did in the film, 211 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: and Carmichael did apparently say arm yourself and get ready 212 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: because the revolution is coming. And I imagine Stalworth had 213 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: some mixed feelings about that assignment. 214 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would guess. So it's kind of like, I 215 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: don't really have any idea of what he personally was 216 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 3: like because the movie mixed things up so much, in 217 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: like added layers that weren't necessarily there. So I have 218 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: no idea what that experience would have been like for him, 219 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: you know. 220 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing we do know is not true is 221 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: the character in the film of Patrese whom he meets 222 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: at that rally, young woman that he falls in love with. 223 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: She was made up for the movie. Spike Lee wanted 224 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: a love interest basically and to represent sort of the 225 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: female black Power movement as a whole, So she was 226 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: completely made up. But she was terrific in the film. 227 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 228 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, Laura harri Or she's in the New Spider Man 229 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: movies too. 230 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: She's awesome, cool, the New Spider Verse movie. 231 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: No No, No, that's animated. 232 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: Oh okay, Well, she could have been. 233 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: A voice actor. I guess right, Yeah, No, she's in 234 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: the one the New Ones with the New the New Kid. 235 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: Okay, the New Spider Kid, the Current Spider Man. 236 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: Current Spider Man, which is great. Those are good movies. 237 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: I haven't seen any of them. 238 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: You're not super into that stuff, though, were you. 239 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: Well? I saw The Infinity War when he was in that. 240 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, he's a bit of a smart alec. Frankly, 241 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 3: he is. 242 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: So okay. He does his research on the deep roots 243 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: of the clan in Colorado, he goes under cover, and 244 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: then I don't think he was even assigned this thing. 245 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: I think he came up with it on his own, 246 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: by chance, almost in October nineteen seventy eight. He was 247 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: twenty five at this point, and he was looking through 248 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: the local paper. 249 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: Well that was part of his assignment, to gather intelligence 250 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 3: by reading the paper. 251 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: Well, right, but I don't think I think this was 252 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: his idea to go undercover like this. 253 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: That's the impression I have too. 254 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: He seemed like a self starter in a lot of ways. 255 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: So he found this ad, a classified ad in the 256 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: paper for the Klan said get in touch if you 257 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: want further information. He sent a letter posing as a 258 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: white racist to a po box, just thinking that he 259 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: would just get back some pamphlets or something. So he 260 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: signed his real name, which is he didn't really think 261 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: that went through. 262 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: No, he didn't, and he never really fully explained it 263 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 3: aside from the best explanation I saw is that he 264 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 3: didn't think anything was going to come of it. He 265 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: thought he'd get, like you said, a couple of pamphlets 266 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 3: and that would be that. And he just wasn't planning 267 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 3: to create like a large investigation out of making contact 268 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: through this ad. And again we should probably state this. 269 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 3: It was an ad in the paper for the clan 270 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 3: to get in touch with the clan, to get more 271 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: info about the clan and maybe you might want to join. 272 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: Who knows? Right? So he makes contact with him by 273 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: sending off a letter. And if you ask me, if 274 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 3: Spike Lee were directing this episode, he would put an 275 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 3: ad break right here. 276 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: That was good. 277 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: Who are we to disagree? 278 00:14:36,000 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 4: All right, we'll be right back, Okay. 279 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,119 Speaker 3: So, like we said, ron Stalworth is thumbing through the newspaper. 280 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 3: He mails off a letter to get more info about 281 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: the Klan, and he uses his real name, and like 282 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: you said, Chuck. He was expecting like a pamphlet or 283 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 3: something in return, like so you want to be a 284 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: clan member or something like that, right, Instead, about two 285 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: weeks later, he got a call from the number. So 286 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: he used everything as far as the undercover operation would go. 287 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: He used all of his undercover info except for his name. 288 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: So he got a call in his undercover phone line 289 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: from a guy named Ken O'Dell and he was pretty 290 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: surprised to get this call because again he was expecting 291 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: a pamphlet and instead he had a real, live, living, 292 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: breathing Ku Klux Klansman on the other end of the 293 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: line saying, Hey, I got your letter about hating black 294 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 3: people and other minorities. Let's talk. 295 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, why are you interested? And Stalwarth 296 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: immediately just kind of goes into character, and I guess 297 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: that's what you You know, when you're undercover, you you 298 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: got to be part improv actor to be able to 299 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: pull that off. 300 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 3: Well. He also he said he drew from his own 301 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: personal experiences because he grew up in El Paso and 302 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: encountered a lot of racism there, and I'm sure on 303 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 3: the force in Colorado Springs too, So he drew from 304 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: his own experience as well. 305 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he basically right out of the gate says, well, 306 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: you know, my sister's dating a black man, and every 307 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: time he puts his hands on her, on her pure 308 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: white body, I cringe and I want to do something 309 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: about it. And Ken O'Dell says, you sound like a 310 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: great guy once you come on down and let's meet, 311 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: because you are just the kind of kind of dude 312 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: we're looking for. 313 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 3: You sound like real clam material. Yeah. 314 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: I thought about maybe doing an episode on The Klan. 315 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 3: I thought about that too, and then I'm like, do 316 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: you want to give him a platform? 317 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, But then I thought, or you know, you could 318 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: just talk about it and how stupid they are all 319 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: right like it when I was a kid. I mean, 320 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: of course, being in Georgia, that stuff was around. I 321 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: never like saw it firsthand, obviously, Yeah, but you heard 322 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: things even like growing up in the seventies in Georgia, 323 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: and I was always so scared of the whole thing 324 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: because of the outfits and everything and the fire. And 325 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: I was a good little Baptist boy, so there was 326 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: a lot of fear. But then I got a little 327 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: older and I was like, they're just dumb rednecks wearing sheets, right, 328 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: sort of demystified it. 329 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 3: It's the moment you become an adult. 330 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, of course then I would later 331 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: learn that they did real horrific things and took lives 332 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: and you know, or a terrorist organization. 333 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, but I think what you're saying is 334 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 3: they made themselves up to be boogeymen. Yeah, exactly, And 335 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 3: they definitely can be that way, especially in the young 336 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 3: mind or something like that. 337 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: But sure. 338 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So back to the story. Sorry, ron Stalworth is 339 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: on the phone with this guy named Ken O'Dell who 340 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 3: wants to meet him to see if he'd like to 341 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: join the Klan. And this is a big problem because 342 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: I think, as we mentioned a couple of times, ron 343 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 3: Stalworth was African American. 344 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, oh boy, what do I do here? 345 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: Right? So he actually recruited a fellow detective who he 346 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: in his book calls Chuck. That's all he's ever publicly 347 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 3: referred to the guy as is Chuck Waite. Was it you, Chuck? 348 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: It was not me that gentleman is I guess either 349 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: still undercover or just never wanted his identity out there, right? 350 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 3: So he yeah, he may still live in Colorado Springs. 351 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 3: Who knows. 352 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: Maybe he's on a case right now for all I know. 353 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 3: But so this Chuck guy, he's he was recruited by 354 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: Ron Stalwarts, who play Ron Stalworth to the Klan because 355 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: Chuck was white. He was already an undercover narcotics agent 356 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 3: and apparently he was friendly enough with Ron Stalwart to say, yes, 357 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 3: I will, I will join this investigation, buddy, let's do it. 358 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. And here's the thing, though, he was this wasn't 359 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: his primary case. So Chuck is undercover on a lot 360 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: of different assignments, so he's not around as much as 361 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: Stalwarts needs him. So, like in the movie, most of 362 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: this stuff is done over the phone. Like, he spends 363 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: a lot of time in this investigation on the phone 364 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: speaking to these clansmen who think that he's a white man, 365 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: and when they needed to meet, he would send Chuck 366 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: in who And we'll get to the voice part in 367 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: a minute, because that's when I was watching the movie, 368 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: I was like, did none of these dummies not realize 369 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: that they don't sound anything alike? 370 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 3: Right? 371 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: You know, because they've been talking to him on the 372 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: phone at length, but they had they had their first meeting. 373 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: They they got together and I believe they met. They 374 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: met somewhere at first and then went to a bar 375 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: after like as the second part of that meeting. 376 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, they met it it can be. So the movie 377 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 3: supposedly portrays this realistically. They this Chuck guy who is 378 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 3: portraying Ron Stalwarts to the Klan. They met at a 379 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 3: convenience store and he was said he was told to 380 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: get in the car and then they drove to a 381 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 3: second location. And that's scary stuff. And also he's also 382 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 3: wearing a wire at the time. Like that's something that 383 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: that the movie kind of gets across, but especially in 384 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 3: like articles about the story don't necessarily dive into this 385 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 3: Chuck cat was like putting himself out there. 386 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: Oh sure, as every undercover detective does. 387 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 3: Right. So, I mean Ron Stalworth is conducting this investigation, 388 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 3: he's the mastermind of He's leading this whole thing. But 389 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 3: this poor Chuck guy has to go hang out with 390 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 3: these you know, violent clans members or clan members on 391 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: you know, like fairly frequently from what I understand. So 392 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: hats off to him. 393 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean it was it was definitely 394 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: like it required both of their best efforts. To get 395 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: away with us for that long, right, it was quite 396 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: the ruse. So Chuck meets with them, eventually earns their 397 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: trust a long way the phone work of Stalworth, and 398 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: then he actually gets successfully admitted about two months later 399 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: and got his little I guess you get a little 400 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: membership card. 401 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 3: He still has it. 402 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: He does. He did not throw it away like in 403 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: the movie. He has it framed in fact, and on 404 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: the back of the card were six codes of conduct, 405 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: one of which said, never discuss any clan affairs with 406 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: any plain clothes officer on a state, local, or national level. 407 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 3: Right. 408 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: So, there is a lot of comedy in the movie 409 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it, I mean, it's it's a 410 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: serious thing that they're doing. But there are a lot 411 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: of laughs as well. 412 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 3: A lot of laughs and a lot of like movie 413 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 3: formula steps that Spike Lee purposely follows, you know, very 414 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: faithfully too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So there's a big point 415 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 3: there that we left out of the Chucks. So to 416 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: get that membership card, supposedly, again, as they say in Colorado, 417 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 3: the oysters on this guy his he had so so 418 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: he met so fake Ron saw with Chuck met with 419 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 3: the Klan, impressed them enough between Ron, the real Ron 420 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 3: Stalwarts phone calls, and Chuck's whatever Chuck was saying in person. 421 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 3: All this combined made the Colorado Springs Clan members say, Okay, 422 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 3: we like you, we want you to be a member. 423 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 3: Fill out this application and we'll send it off to 424 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 3: the national director of again the Klan. We should say, 425 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: I don't know if we've ever said this. The Klan 426 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: calls itself the organization rather than the clan, so they 427 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 3: and the guy who ran the thing. I don't know 428 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 3: if he still runs it or not, but he definitely 429 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: did at this time during this investigation is a guy 430 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: named David Duke, who if you grew up in the 431 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: eighties or I think even the nineties, you were probably 432 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: pretty familiar with David Duke. I believe he ran for 433 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: president once, didn't he? 434 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean he was, wasn't he the 435 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: governor of Louisiana? 436 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: I don't Maybe that's what it is. Maybe he ran 437 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: for that. But he was the grand Wizard of the 438 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 3: Ku Klux Klan, and he he was trying to make 439 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: it a more political organization, less of a terrorist organization 440 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: and more of a political organization. Under his guidance, but 441 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 3: it was still the Ku Klux Klan. Like, there was 442 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 3: still plenty of times when he was wearing robes and 443 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: stuff he just never did in public. So during this 444 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 3: time he was the national director, the Grand Wizard of 445 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: the Klan. And when ron Stalworth didn't get his application 446 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 3: pushed through fast enough, he picked up the phone and 447 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 3: called the national headquarters and ended up talking with David 448 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: Duke and saying like, Hey, my application is taking a while. 449 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 3: Is there anything you can do about it? And this 450 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 3: kicked off like what ron Stalwart would later characterize in 451 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 3: a weird way as a friendship between him, a black 452 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 3: undercover detective in Colorado, and David Duke, the Grand Wizard 453 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 3: of the Ku Klux Klan. 454 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, I don't want to get 455 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: angry emails from David Duke supporters. 456 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 457 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: He was a Republican Louisiana State rep. He was not governor, 458 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: but I think he ran for some high off. Oh 459 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: he did. He ran. He was a candidate for the 460 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: Democratic presidential primaries in the late eighties and then the 461 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: Republican primaries in ninety two. 462 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 3: He ran as a Democrat and then a I could 463 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 3: see that solid South kind of thing. 464 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think he ran for state Senate and 465 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: lost US Senate and lost US House and loss and 466 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: he did run for governor of Louisiana but he lost. Gotcha, Okay, 467 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: And you maybe if you're if you didn't grow up 468 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: in the eighties, you may have heard his name more 469 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: recently because he fully endorsed Donald Trump's campaign and after 470 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump won, this was his quote on Twitter. Make 471 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: no mistake, our people have played a huge role in 472 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: electing Trump. So he was he was in the news 473 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: again more recently. 474 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 3: Well, he was also in Charlottesville, if not leading the 475 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: rally to Unite the Right, definitely a big speaker at it, 476 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: a big part of it. And Spike Lee uses some 477 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: of his footage from that rally to kind of get 478 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 3: across that you know, this stuff is still going on. 479 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: This isn't from the seventies or earlier. 480 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: How great was for Grace. 481 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: He was wonderful. 482 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: He was so good and he looks a lot like 483 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: David Duke in the seventies. 484 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 3: He really does. Unfortunately for him the stash in the 485 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 3: three piece suits and all that. So yeah, he did 486 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 3: a good job, but so so yeah. In the movie 487 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 3: to for Grace from that seventies show. Always he will 488 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: always be from that seventies show. Yeah, he plays what 489 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 3: do you want me to say? Like he had a 490 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 3: bit part in Ocean's eleven or something. Brad Pitt's character 491 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 3: was teaching him to play poker. 492 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: I think I got about that. 493 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 3: You know that guy. 494 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: No, he's that seventy show of course. 495 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: So so he he plays David Duke in the in 496 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: the movie and there this, this is, this is it's 497 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 3: really funny, like Spike Lee added stuff that just you 498 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 3: would think like, well, yeah, of course it's totally believable, 499 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: like Chuck being Jewish in real life, right, and he 500 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 3: actually wasn't. That's fabricated by the movie. So you would 501 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 3: just not even think twice about that. But it turns 502 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 3: out that's not true. The stuff that seems the least 503 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 3: true was actually the stuff that actually happened, and for 504 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: a very long time, at the very least. Over the 505 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 3: course of this nine month investigation, there were multiple phone 506 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: calls that were very cordial and friendly where ron Stalworth 507 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 3: would call David Duke, imposing as a White Clam member 508 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: and pumping from information. They would talk about, you know, 509 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 3: David Duke's family and like, just have normal conversations that 510 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 3: would inevitably turn back to racism and the weakening of 511 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 3: the white race at the hands of you know, the 512 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 3: Jewish media and all the minorities who are taking over, 513 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 3: and so it would inevitably turn disgusting. But he said later, 514 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 3: I think in the book in an interviews where if 515 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 3: you could separate that stuff out, he was actually a 516 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 3: pleasant person to talk to, and that's where that weird 517 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: friendship that he characterized it as kind of developed from 518 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 3: those conversations. 519 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: But there is like he couldn't make this stuff up, 520 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: you know, exactly. 521 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 3: But there is at least one video of David Duke 522 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 3: basically admitting that, yes, this he had conversations with this guy. 523 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: He tries to downplay it, sure, but he does basically 524 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: verify that, yes, that's true, that really happened. 525 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: Well, and Duke's probably like I can't remember every phone 526 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: call I had with every random racist over the years, right, 527 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: there were a lot of them. Even the skuy Posing 528 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: is one. All right, well, let's take another break and 529 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: we're gonna go. We're going to talk a little bit 530 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: more about this weird David Duke relationship right after this. 531 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: All right, so he's budding up with David Duke on 532 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: the phone. He's fooling everybody, and he even like you 533 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: get the sense that he does have a little bit 534 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: of sense of humor Stalworth, because at one point he 535 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: even goaded him on the phone a little bit. And 536 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: this is in the movie and it was totally true. 537 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: He said, you know, mister Duke, have you ever worried 538 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: about like a black man posing as a white man 539 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: and infiltrating your organization? And Duke said no. And he said, 540 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: and this is from the NPR interview with Stalworth, he said, 541 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: I can tell you're white because you don't talk like 542 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: a black man. He said, you talk like a very smart, 543 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: intellectual white man. And I can tell by the way 544 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: you pronounce certain words. And he said, you know, give 545 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: me an example, and he said, black people tend to 546 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: pronounce the word are ara. And I can tell by 547 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: listening to you that you're not black, because you do 548 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: not pronounce that word in that manner. 549 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: It's science case closed. 550 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: Oh boy, he was so easily duped. I love it. Uh. 551 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: And then they also did in fact meet in person. 552 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: That part is true as well. Duke came to town and 553 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: was having lunch. It was not a big ceremony like 554 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: in the movie, but he came to town to have 555 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: lunch and the department assigned Stalwarth to protect him, and 556 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: so he goes there to the restaurant, introduces himself to 557 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: protect him. Duke says, all right, I appreciate you them, 558 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, sending someone my way. And Chuck is undercover 559 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: there as well, and he does, in fact, Stalworth pose 560 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: with David Duke and gets a polaroid with him. 561 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: So this sounded to me like what what was the 562 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 3: what was going on here? Like, I mean, like, you've 563 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: got this investigation going this is this takes place during 564 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 3: this this undercover investigation that Stalwart's conducting. You have a 565 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 3: guy who's already like putting himself out there, Chuck, as 566 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 3: as the white Ron Stalworth. And then the chief says, oh, yes, 567 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: by the way, you the only African American police officer 568 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 3: in our entire squad. You go be David Duke's bodyguard 569 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: for the day while he's in town in Colorado Springs. 570 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: Like that was just bizarre. And not only do it 571 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 3: do that that that very like obvious over act slapping 572 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: the face to David Duke, which is great, but if 573 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: it but it could have jeopardized like this whole, this 574 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: whole thing, because you also you had the guy portraying 575 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: Ron Stalworth in the same room at the same lunch. 576 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 3: It just seemed really strange. And again that was one 577 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 3: of those things where when you watch the movie you 578 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 3: would think like, well, that's just made up. No, that 579 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 3: actually took place, at least according to Ron Stalworth's memoirs, 580 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 3: and that that that Chuck was in the room was 581 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 3: asked to take a picture by Ron Stalworth with David 582 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 3: Duke and the Grand Dragon I guess who must be 583 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 3: like the head of the state in Colorado. And then 584 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: the last second, when he was counting down, he put 585 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 3: his arms around the shoulders of the two clan guys 586 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: and then got his hands on the picture. Apparently all 587 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 3: of that was the case, but he's since lost the picture. 588 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Duke really did try to get it back, 589 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: and Stalwarth like got to it quicker and said basically 590 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: like if you try to take this thing, I will 591 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: have you arrested for assaulting a police officer. Right, don't 592 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: do it. Don't think about. 593 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: It, all right, so he said he lost it in 594 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 3: a move he wished he had taken better care of it. 595 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 3: But the idea that it was like that's just so nuts. 596 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: It tells you a lot about the investigation though to me, 597 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: like it makes you say, like, okay, how seriously were 598 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: they taking this investigation at the time. If Stalwarth later 599 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 3: said all right, this is this is just you know, 600 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 3: this is just another job to me. When I started it, 601 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: I did the job, and then when it was done, 602 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: I moved on to another job. The fact that he 603 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 3: didn't talk about it much until I think he spoke 604 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 3: about it to the press once in two thousand and 605 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 3: six a Desert News article, and then didn't talk about 606 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: it again until twenty fourteen when his memoirs came out. 607 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 3: It was just like a thing that they were doing 608 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 3: that other people were doing other stuff too. And then 609 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: to have like that part of it that the idea 610 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 3: that you would you would jeopardize it in that way 611 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 3: just makes it seem like they weren't taking it as 612 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: that big of an operations as like the movie would 613 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 3: like to believe. I'm not sure. 614 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Well, I think in real life it was it was 615 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: a information gathering investigation. Like, it was never we're going 616 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: to take down the clan in Colorado. It was let's 617 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: infiltrate and get as much information in fact finding as 618 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: we can. And in the end, after eight months, that's 619 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: kind of what happened. It was he considers Stalwart, considers 620 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: it a success, and that they fulfill their mission. They 621 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: did prevent three cross burning ceremonies during that eight month 622 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: span or at nine month span, and they did identify 623 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: clan members who worked at Noorad who apparently they said they, 624 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean these days they would be fired probably, but 625 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: they said they reassigned them to like Greenland or something. 626 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: Right because they had access to the too nuclear weapons. 627 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: Apparently they had very high level clearance at noor Ad, 628 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 3: which is scary. 629 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: And then they also found plans that they didn't act on, 630 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: like the whole bomb plot in the movie was made 631 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: up for dramatic purposes, but they did find links between 632 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: for a plan to bomb a gay nightclub and another 633 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: plan to steal automatic weapons from an army base, like 634 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: an inside job. So it was, you know, it was 635 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: valuable work they were doing, for sure. It just wasn't 636 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: like we're going to take the clan down like I 637 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: don't think it was the department's big, big job at 638 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: the time. 639 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 3: No, certainly not. And in the memoirs and in the 640 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 3: movie too, the reason that's given for the undercover operation 641 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: to end is because it started to become successful. Ron 642 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 3: Stalwarth was nominated to lead the Colorado Springs chapter of 643 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 3: the Klan. Like Ken O'Dell basically said, you should take 644 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 3: my job. Everybody likes you. You're really good at this, 645 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: You're smart. You should lead the clan here and the 646 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 3: police chief of Colorado Springs. So that's it. Close it down, 647 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 3: burn all the evidence of this investigation. He apparently was 648 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 3: worried about what a pr nightmare it would be if 649 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 3: it got out that some of his detectives were in 650 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: the Colorado Springs Clan. But at the same time, what 651 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 3: strikes me is odd is that the FBI wasn't like, oh, well, geez, 652 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 3: this guy is like being nominated to lead the Colorado 653 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: Springs Clan. He's talking to David Duke like, really, this 654 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 3: could not be kind of blown up into a larger 655 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 3: investigation or a larger staying or something like that. And 656 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 3: then secondly, and ron Stalworth himself addresses this, there's a 657 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 3: very frequently a criticism of well, if this was such 658 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 3: a big operation and they found all this stuff, why 659 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 3: wasn't anyone arrested? Why weren't there any arrests? And Duke says, right, 660 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 3: not just David Duke. Stalwarth says also that in law 661 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 3: enforcement too, people question that, like why wasn't anyone arrested? 662 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 3: And he said, it was an intel investigation and that's 663 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 3: what they did, is they gathered stuff. But then he 664 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,479 Speaker 3: very rightly points out, like you said, like the fact 665 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 3: that they prevented crossburnings alone makes it a worthwhile and 666 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 3: valuable operation. I think just some people on the outside 667 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 3: are saying, well, why wasn't why wasn't more done? Why 668 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 3: didn't Moore come out of this? You know? Well, and 669 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure what they're driving at, but there 670 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 3: are you know, Stalwart brings that up in an interview 671 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 3: I read with him like that people do ask that 672 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 3: and wonder about that. 673 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Stalwarth is very proud of the fact that 674 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: with the cross burnings, he was like, no, I can't 675 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: remember the quote, but he said something about no children 676 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: in Colorado Springs got to you know, no young black 677 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: kids had to see crosses on fire during that eight 678 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: or nine month period, and I'm very proud of that, 679 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: as he should be. 680 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, for real. 681 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: So I mentioned the voice earlier, in the fact that 682 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: he had a different voice obviously than Chuck, and he 683 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: said one time, only one time, and I think this 684 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: was in the movie, wasn't it. 685 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 3: It was? Actually no, it was I remember. 686 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So one time in the whole investigation did someone 687 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: say like, wait a minute, you sound different. Chuck had 688 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: just been at a in person meeting, came back and 689 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: then Stalworth wants to follow up on the phone with 690 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: Ken O'Dell about something right afterward. So he had just 691 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: heard Chuck's voice for whatever this whole meeting and was 692 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: talking to him and he was like, wait a minute, 693 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: you sound different, what's going on? And he just pulled 694 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: it off. He coughed and said he had a sinus infection, 695 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: and Ken O'Dell was like, oh, well, here's how you 696 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: clear that up, and gave some good sinus medication advice. 697 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, they definitely appeared in the movie. 698 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you could not make this thing up, you know, 699 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: it's crazy. 700 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 3: No, for real, And apparently for a long time, Stalworth 701 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: was saying like, yeah, it was just another job. It 702 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 3: was just another operation. I guess he told some fellow 703 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 3: like law enforcement friends or whatever about it, and they're like, dude, 704 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,959 Speaker 3: you this is a movie. You need to write this down, 705 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 3: you need to get this out there. This is a 706 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: one in a million story. Yeah. 707 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 1: I wonder one reason it didn't go bigger operation wise 708 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: was because the sort of hackneyed way they got into it, 709 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 1: like he's the voice, but they're sending a white man 710 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: like it's I'm surprised he pulled it off for that long. 711 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. I could totally see that. 712 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: One final thing that did not happen in real life 713 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: but did happen in the movie. And this is what 714 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: when you usually will change real life is to get 715 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: a more satisfying ending. But Stalwart did not, unfortunately, reveal 716 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: his true identity to David Duke like he does to 717 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: hilarious effect in the film. Unfortunately. No, I'll see that. 718 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 3: He was saying, like, yeah, he just he didn't really 719 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 3: talk about it until the two thousands, So David Duke 720 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 3: didn't know until I guess the memoirs came out. 721 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, well, I guess we should talk 722 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: about Spike Lee getting criticized Boots Riley, director who I 723 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:28,479 Speaker 1: had a movie crush. 724 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 3: By the way, he I know what was his movie? 725 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: Sorry to Bother You? Was his film that he made. 726 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 3: No, I mean his pick for movie crush. 727 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: His pick was a movie called Mishima, A Life in 728 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: four Chapters. Okay, yeah, it was a great film and 729 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: his like, his knowledge on movies was deep. He turned 730 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: me onto a lot of cool things. 731 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 3: I thought it for a very terrible second you were 732 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 3: saying his pick was his own movie. 733 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: No no, But he you know, Boots does not hold 734 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: back on what he thinks. And while you would think 735 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: that he would be like, oh no, I'm going to 736 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: be a champion of Spike Lee and telling the story, 737 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: he came out very publicly on Twitter and that very 738 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: intelligently criticized that he didn't just bag on it. He 739 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,959 Speaker 1: wrote a big, long statement on exactly what he thought 740 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: was wrong with it. 741 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. He basically said, look, man, if you take away 742 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 3: all the embellishments that Spike Lee added to this movie, 743 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 3: what you have as a guy who's probably biggest assignment. 744 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 3: And I'm not sure where he got this, but he 745 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 3: focused on that stokely Carmichael thing and the fact that 746 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 3: ron Stalworth had worked undercover to infiltrate the Black Power 747 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 3: movement in Colorado Springs and that he had worked on 748 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 3: that for like three years, and that this clan thing 749 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 3: was just like a nine month thing. And he also 750 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 3: criticized Spike Lee for making it, making the movie seem 751 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 3: like law enforcement and the Black Power movement came together 752 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 3: to fight racism, right that like that was a larger point, 753 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 3: or that that was historically accurate or something like that. 754 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 3: It was a really interesting It was like a three 755 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: page essay that he posted on Twitter that made some 756 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 3: good points. He basically said, from what I can tell, 757 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 3: it looks like ron Stalworth was working for co intel Pro, 758 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 3: which was the FBI's it was their program to undermine groups, 759 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 3: including black power groups, which we mentioned it in the 760 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 3: Black Panther episode we did, and co intel Pro definitely 761 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 3: deserves its own episode, and it was ended officially in 762 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy one. But I think Boots Riley's point was 763 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 3: it might have been officially ended, but the work was 764 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 3: still going on, and if this guy was infiltrating Black 765 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 3: Power like groups in Colorado Springs, he was almost certainly 766 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 3: trying to break them, up one way or another, probably 767 00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 3: using co intel purposes or practices. And Ron stall Worth 768 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 3: he had a pretty great quote in response to it. 769 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 3: He said, I pray for my demented, dissolute brother in 770 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 3: response to Boots Riley and Spike Lee has no comment 771 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 3: about it whatsoever. So who knows. But you make a 772 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 3: good point that like he's he's he's not just giving 773 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 3: like blind allegiance to anything. 774 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: Sure. Well, Spike did comment eventually. 775 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 3: Oh I didn't see that. 776 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. He was in an interview, and the 777 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: first thing he said was like, Hey, I'm a I'm 778 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: a young man of sixty one or something like that, 779 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: and like, you know, young me might have kind of 780 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: gotten into a war of words, but he's just not 781 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: into that anymore. But he did say briefly something about, listen, 782 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: I'm not going to come out and say that all 783 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,959 Speaker 1: cops are racist and all cops do bad things, because 784 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: they don't all do bad things. There's a lot of 785 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: great cops. There's also bad cops. And he kind of 786 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: just couched it in that and then was like, but 787 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to be really talking about 788 00:41:59,200 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: this anymore. 789 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I hadn't seen that he'd even had that comment. Yeah, 790 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 3: so it's interesting stuff and it's a good movie at 791 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 3: the very least. 792 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. 793 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,919 Speaker 3: You know, I think I think ron Staal wars Like man, 794 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 3: they made a movie about my story. That's pretty awesome, 795 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 3: and at the very least it's a pretty great movie. 796 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 3: How about that? Totally, totally, So if you you got anything. 797 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: Else, I got nothing else. 798 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 3: If you want to know more about Black Clansmen, you 799 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 3: should probably go see that movie. And I guess we 800 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 3: probably should have said at the outset this episode is 801 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 3: not an ad. 802 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: Oh, of course not. 803 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 3: We just like the movie a lot, right. 804 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you could say it's an ad, but like, 805 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: no one gave us money or asked us to do this. Sure, Okay, 806 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm endorsing it. 807 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 3: Okay, there you go. I am endorsing it as well. 808 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 3: It has two thumbs up, as it were. Yeah, rest 809 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 3: in peace, Roger Ebert and Jeene Ciskel two thumbs Okay. 810 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 3: So if I already already said that, how about some 811 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 3: listener mail. 812 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna call this ping pong response from a 813 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: former pro Nice, Hey, guys, want to commend you on 814 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: the job you did covering a sport that you didn't 815 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: have an extensive knowledge of. I'm a professional table tennis 816 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: coach and former player. I started playing in college. Thought 817 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: I was really good until I was coerced to go 818 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: to a tournament at Princeton University about twenty years ago 819 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: and I got destroyed. I didn't like that, so I 820 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: saw it out to coach and the rest is history. 821 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: You guys clearly did a lot of research and to 822 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: highlight the things that most novice players aren't aware of. 823 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: But there were a few things I couldn't help but 824 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: point out. Josh, you mentioned the components of the modern racket. 825 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: You said the pimpled sign those are called pips are 826 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: for spinning the ball, that the smooth side is for 827 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: defensive play. But the opposite is actually true. Oh no, 828 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: I didn't catch that, because I would have pointed that out. 829 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: I thought everyone knew that. 830 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 3: Thank you for that. 831 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: You get good spin on that smooth side, all right, 832 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: for real? Oh yeah, yeah, it's grippy, all right? He said. 833 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: The smooth side is very tacky, as in sticky, and that, 834 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: combined with the sponge underneath, allows the ball to sink 835 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: in just enough so that the TACKI service grips the 836 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: ball and generates a lot of spin. Also, you can 837 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,879 Speaker 1: really have any combination of rubber that you want as 838 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 1: long as it's ITTF approved. Players are not restricted to 839 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: having one smooth side and one with pips, but one 840 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: side does have to be read and the other black. 841 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: Most defensive players use pips on their backhand because pips 842 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: vary the spin that is coming back at you and 843 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: it's very hard to read. Also, Chuck, you mentioned that 844 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: defensive players are called chislers. They're actually called choppers as 845 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: they chop the ball back with varying backspin. I've never 846 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: heard the term chiselers. I'm wondering if it is extremely outdated. 847 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: Maybe I bet you that was the Gates I haead 848 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: Old research chizlas. 849 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 3: That's what they call in the twenties. 850 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: He said, if you guys are ever in the Dunnellen, 851 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,280 Speaker 1: New Jersey area, stop by. We are there right now, 852 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 1: stop by the Lily Yip Table Tennis Club and I'll 853 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: gladly hook you guys up with the lesson. 854 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 3: I will gladly humiliate you in person. 855 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: And that is Thomas from Philly. 856 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 3: Thanks Thomas, much appreciated. We like it when we are 857 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 3: gently corrected because we like to be right, so thanks 858 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 3: for that. If you want to get in touch with us, 859 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 3: let us know I don't know something we got wrong 860 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 3: about black clansmen. Let us know. You can find all 861 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 3: of our social links on stuffishould Know dot com and 862 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 3: has always sent us an email to stuff podcast at 863 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 3: HowStuffWorks dot com. 864 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 2: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 865 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com