Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as ulways with our
Speaker 3: super producer Andrew Treyforce Howard. Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
Speaker 3: want you to know. Oh, hold the phone, super like us,
Speaker 3: throw us a rose, whatever you must do. We're so
Speaker 3: glad you're here. This is part two of a two
Speaker 3: part series on the illuminati of online dating and guys
Speaker 3: with the magic of editing. We're not quite sure where
Speaker 3: this episode picks up, are we.
Speaker 2: No, But we're gonna find out in just a moment.
Speaker 4: Joining our show already in progress in media arrests, you
Speaker 4: know the one here goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for swiping right on the second episode, super
Speaker 2: like us, Send us roses, Send us roses.
Speaker 3: Back to our Atlantic article. There's a great quote that
Speaker 3: sums it up.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 4: On April twenty first, nineteenninety five, Cremen launchmatch dot Com
Speaker 4: Match was a free service supported by ads, with the
Speaker 4: idea to charge for subscriptions when it grew, and there
Speaker 4: was only one way for it to reach that point.
Speaker 5: We need more women, Kremen.
Speaker 4: Shouted, like, it's not literally uh storming through No, he did.
Speaker 4: He said it literally, well, storming through their basement office.
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to go to a party where there's women.
Speaker 5: It's not creepy at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, every woman means ten guys join. He literally said
Speaker 4: this out loud apparently as well.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about going to the club. Got club,
Speaker 2: We're all fam When when you go to the club,
Speaker 2: you may have noticed that clubs will generally allow groups
Speaker 2: of women into the club. Why do they have why
Speaker 2: do they have women's and eye ladies and night or
Speaker 2: whatever they call those things. They will then have big lines,
Speaker 2: generally of men waiting to get in, and they will
Speaker 2: pay good money to go into that club. What I
Speaker 2: think it's the exact same thing that begins to happen
Speaker 2: here when Match says, hey, let's make these guys buy
Speaker 2: access to this club essentially where there will be some women.
Speaker 2: The women know that men are willing to buy their
Speaker 2: way into this thing. They're they're committed to some extent,
Speaker 2: there's some buy in to it, literally, so it's not
Speaker 2: just a bunch of random dudes showing up on your.
Speaker 5: The bar entry the barriers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in your minds.
Speaker 3: Again, we're coming from a very we're telling you Gary's mentality,
Speaker 3: which is very hetero sexual, to be quite honest.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: So one of the things that fran does very well
Speaker 3: here fran Meyer is she says, we have to be inclusive, right,
Speaker 3: Everybody wants to meet someone, So how do we find
Speaker 3: those people? How do we connect them, and how do
Speaker 3: we make a little vigorous you know, in the process.
Speaker 3: And it turns out the team was correct there. As
Speaker 3: we study the evolution of dating apps, as we study
Speaker 3: the evolution of match Group through its various iterations, what
Speaker 3: we see is further inclusiveness such that it allows people
Speaker 3: to gather data about you. This organization is a dating
Speaker 3: app conglomerate today with millions of users and over forty
Speaker 3: five seemingly distinct brands around the world. And these brands,
Speaker 3: to your earlier points, guys, they use the same business model.
Speaker 3: They're freemium, they're based on subscriptions, and those in app
Speaker 3: what do we call them in video games.
Speaker 4: Micro transactions microaggressions as well. No, for sure, in app
Speaker 4: purchases micro transactions, they don't seem like much at the time,
Speaker 4: but add it up over the course of your use
Speaker 4: of the app or the game, not to mention every
Speaker 4: user's use of the app or the game, that's big money.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I'll be one hundred with you, guys. I
Speaker 3: have not had the privilege nor opportunity to do online dating.
Speaker 3: I'm very excited about the gamification of the whole thing.
Speaker 3: You know, do a little super like or throw a
Speaker 3: rose or a bumb Do you throw a bumble?
Speaker 4: I think the issue, though, ben or that what I've
Speaker 4: experienced is they're not upping your.
Speaker 5: Odds at all.
Speaker 4: Like it's really just kind of like preying on people
Speaker 4: who think that if they pay this extra cost, they're
Speaker 4: going to be more likely to get a match, and
Speaker 4: that's just not true, especially if you're kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe not like some sort of traditionally attractive human being,
Speaker 4: which I think these are focusing on and geared towards.
Speaker 4: Is folks that think this will give them an edge,
Speaker 4: when in fact it's just not true.
Speaker 2: Well, according to the creators, it's very true.
Speaker 5: Guys.
Speaker 2: The roses changed the game, I don't know, decided that
Speaker 2: you should pay for roses.
Speaker 3: And they still call it a game too far.
Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, well it is. Yeah, it's so funny. They again,
Speaker 2: it's just weird to hear the people who are in
Speaker 2: charge of these things, because there's you know, there's a
Speaker 2: there's a head of Tinder, there's a head of all
Speaker 2: of them hins and but there's also a head of
Speaker 2: match Group.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and.
Speaker 2: The way because it's all algorithm based, it's all algorithm
Speaker 2: run and each one has its own algorithm, and each
Speaker 2: of the algorithms is built a little differently and is
Speaker 2: gamified in such a way. But you are so right.
Speaker 2: They will not call it a game. They don't. It
Speaker 2: is not that this is very serious business. This is
Speaker 2: helping people find a partner.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, yeah, yeah, it sure is. That's their singular philosophy, right,
Speaker 3: which leads us to the other part. Is this a monopoly?
Speaker 3: A match pretty much runs the online dating business. Like
Speaker 3: they have what will call market capture. They own two
Speaker 3: thirds of the dating app market easy in the West.
Speaker 3: You could call it a monopoly, as the big fish
Speaker 3: in the pond here I can't well, should have done
Speaker 3: it plenty of.
Speaker 4: I just kind of feel like with business these days,
Speaker 4: the question of whether or not something is a monopoly
Speaker 4: is almost like missing the point because it just feels
Speaker 4: like no one's being It's so rare for regulating groups
Speaker 4: and government organizations to truly go after and bust up
Speaker 4: monopolies anymore, and if they do, it seems to be
Speaker 4: kind of like a gesture to show that we mean business.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, like so many
Speaker 4: things are monopolies, like MasterCard and Visa are monopolies, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I.
Speaker 5: Just the term.
Speaker 4: It just seems to be changing and becoming more and
Speaker 4: more amorphous and hard to pin down or at least
Speaker 4: in terms of like what regulations actually exist. So I
Speaker 4: would say, yes, it's definitely a monopoly, but does the
Speaker 4: government care or does anybody really care?
Speaker 3: Ah, That's where we go into this, And I'm glad
Speaker 3: you brought this up, because again it's the old parable
Speaker 3: of the grocery store aisle looking for a box at
Speaker 3: cereal and you see this vast panopoly on Aisle eleven,
Speaker 3: Aisle twelve, whatever, tell us your aisle for cereal you
Speaker 3: see all these things that look to be distinct brands,
Speaker 3: they're ultimately owned by a handful of huge corporations. Match
Speaker 3: Group is the hidden hand on the dating apps on
Speaker 3: two thirds of them. Easy again, Now to your point, Noel,
Speaker 3: we might rightly wonder why there's new anti trust action
Speaker 3: going on. That's because according to the federal government of
Speaker 3: the United States, it is not illegal to obtain a
Speaker 3: monopoly through the use of superior products, innovation, or business acumen,
Speaker 3: whatever that means, so long as you are not engaged
Speaker 3: in criminal activity. And Match got to where it is
Speaker 3: by aggressively acquiring other companies, brands, and the online dating space.
Speaker 3: But they weren't really doing anything that any other company
Speaker 3: wouldn't do.
Speaker 5: They were just kind of first to market.
Speaker 4: And then, like many big organizations like that that are
Speaker 4: first to market, they have the power to buy up.
Speaker 5: All of their competitors and then put them under their umbrella.
Speaker 4: We know, we may surely we see that with Facebook
Speaker 4: and and them buying up all the apps that could
Speaker 4: potentially compete with their business or to fight against their
Speaker 4: main flagship app, Facebook for example, becoming increasingly irrelevant.
Speaker 5: So they've got you know, Instagram to lean on. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, in the case of match, they saw Tinder doing
Speaker 2: something different, They're like, oh, wow, that's crazy, we need
Speaker 2: to acquire them. And then he like Hinge came along
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we're gonna we're the Tender killer
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, let's get that. And then they
Speaker 2: like they still have the campaigns like Hinge. It's it's
Speaker 2: not like Tinder get Hinge. It's so different get Hinge.
Speaker 2: But then you get on Hinge and then it's all
Speaker 2: the same users that are on Tender and you're matching
Speaker 2: with the same people on the on a different app.
Speaker 5: What is happening?
Speaker 4: So it's sort of like giant beverage companies buying up
Speaker 4: lo mom and pop breweries and giving the illusion that
Speaker 4: you're getting some sort of bespoke, handmade product. And maybe
Speaker 4: it still is, and obviously they changed the formulas oftentimes,
Speaker 4: but you really are just still paying upstairs to Bevco
Speaker 4: or whatever whatever the frick you know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 4: Bush or what have you?
Speaker 3: Sure that's the one in bev Yeah, shout out young brands,
Speaker 3: shout out how earlier grocery store serial example. We also
Speaker 3: know the antitrust conversation would go a different way if
Speaker 3: Match was supplying what would be considered an essential service
Speaker 3: in terms of national security. So make no mistake. If
Speaker 3: this single corporate entity controlled two thirds of the world's
Speaker 3: fossil fuels, you know, there might be some conversations, some
Speaker 3: very different ones. Shout out aside, hope you have a
Speaker 3: good time with your roommate, Snowden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope we have a good time with I
Speaker 2: don't know, isis I mean this conversation.
Speaker 3: Hey, free Syrian Army is what they're.
Speaker 4: Showing one hundred exactly, I mean this whole conversation though,
Speaker 4: about monopolies and the effects that they have on consumers.
Speaker 4: There's a million different ways to slice it. And you're
Speaker 4: absolutely right, Ben, you know, you know, compared to something
Speaker 4: like fossil fuels or you know, armaments or what have you,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean dating, you know, owning the dating
Speaker 4: world online seems comparatively frivolous.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and with that, we're going to take a
Speaker 2: quick break. We'll be right back after we're from our sponsors.
Speaker 3: And we've returned. So this logically brings us to another question.
Speaker 3: Given that Match owns so many things, do they have
Speaker 3: a consistent to your question, Matt, do they have a
Speaker 3: consistent philosophy and strategy across all these different dating services?
Speaker 3: Put simply, does Match actually want its users to meet
Speaker 3: what they would see as success?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: Do they want you to fall in love? Does that
Speaker 3: mean leaving the app? Is romance? True romance? Not the
Speaker 3: movie the actual experience. Is it bad for business? With Match?
Speaker 5: Was it hinges like whole like sales pitch? Was that
Speaker 5: I think we want you to quit? Like it? Is that?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Hinge advertised itself as the dating app designed to.
Speaker 5: Be that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, so until your boyfriend gets really busy
Speaker 2: and then just load it back up on your phone
Speaker 2: again and see what.
Speaker 5: Just to your point, Ben, like that people are already
Speaker 5: thinking this.
Speaker 4: Therefore they were like, okay, we need to combat this,
Speaker 4: you know, from a marketing standpoint. So the fact that
Speaker 4: this is like already on people's minds probably, I think,
Speaker 4: is really indicative of the trends.
Speaker 3: It's a real back of badgers. You know. It's well
Speaker 3: and good for consumers to log onto an app to
Speaker 3: create a profile find the love of their life. But
Speaker 3: the truth is dating services make more consistent money when
Speaker 3: their users return, when they keep coming back. That's why
Speaker 3: you see what you were talking about, Matt, The gamified
Speaker 3: elements across these apps, the notifications that want you to
Speaker 3: always be plugged in. That's why you see the freemium model. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you get a free profile, you know, post a picture
Speaker 3: you holding a big fish, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: high fiving some who's a celebrity.
Speaker 5: Now I don't remember Stil O'Neill.
Speaker 3: Here's a picture you high five in Shaquille O'Neill. That
Speaker 3: means that means you're tall, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Otherwise you look like baby hands. That would maybe not
Speaker 5: be the best picture to bose.
Speaker 3: But then if you want to even if you are
Speaker 3: high fiving Shaquille O'Neill while you guys went fishing, you
Speaker 3: still are going to be pushed to pay money at
Speaker 3: some point to get your super likes or you know,
Speaker 3: your super swipes. God, I sound old to get a
Speaker 3: higher visibility profile. Oh, or importantly to get the ability
Speaker 3: to message people who have not shown interest in you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's how weird. I didn't even know that
Speaker 5: was a thing.
Speaker 4: And you'd think that the women on the apps wouldn't
Speaker 4: want that.
Speaker 5: That would not be good.
Speaker 2: It's called dming, right, that's still a thing, but that's
Speaker 2: on interest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're sneaking into those dms, but you're not supposed
Speaker 5: to be able to do that.
Speaker 3: Daddy mom one.
Speaker 2: Sneak in.
Speaker 5: Man, it is flatten into those dms, you know.
Speaker 4: But again, that just seems to go against inherently against
Speaker 4: the whole philosophy that made women be down with joining these.
Speaker 5: Apps in the first place.
Speaker 4: So it's sort of like moving the goalpost a little bit,
Speaker 4: you know, by adding some of these extra features.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we need engagement. Baby, it's a different
Speaker 2: kind than you were maybe thinking about when you downloaded this.
Speaker 3: I will pay someone to validate me with an emoji.
Speaker 5: Just hit me with the thig. I remember what I
Speaker 5: was gonna say.
Speaker 4: It just reminds me too of the way that all
Speaker 4: social media apps, at the end of the day, these
Speaker 4: are social media apps have gone with like you know,
Speaker 4: big users, big celebrities that have a gazillion followers, every
Speaker 4: one of their followers doesn't see every one of their posts,
Speaker 4: and they they're they're you know, these companies like Facebook
Speaker 4: and whatever, TikTok. I think you have to like you
Speaker 4: pay in a little bit to make sure your post
Speaker 4: gets wider distribution. You know, you cannot expect that just
Speaker 4: it's because you have a five hundred thousand followers that
Speaker 4: every one of those followers is going to see your post.
Speaker 4: You're kind of getting what's the word shadow band or
Speaker 4: whatever it Maybe that's the more extreme version, but this
Speaker 4: is very much a thing just in social media in general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is a dopamine casino, and perhaps a
Speaker 3: dangerous one.
Speaker 5: We know.
Speaker 3: To the earlier point about what we call being platform agnostic,
Speaker 3: I love what you're bringing up here, No, because we
Speaker 3: see that habitual users of dating applications tend to have
Speaker 3: more than one app. If someone has a tender, they
Speaker 3: have another thing. If someone has a bumble, they have
Speaker 3: another thing. And the reason they have this is because
Speaker 3: the popularity of this stuff moves with the fickle mercurial herd.
Speaker 3: The field of dreams only works when there are other
Speaker 3: people on the baseball field. So when you're in a
Speaker 3: dead dating app, you feel kind of dumb. You feel
Speaker 3: like you're wasting your time. See go to the next one.
Speaker 3: And this is something that is easily leveraged. If you
Speaker 3: own two thirds of the dating apps. Now you have
Speaker 3: a consumer, not once, not twice, but multiple times. All
Speaker 3: the money goes to you. Match makes money either way
Speaker 3: as long as you keep using it. So for you know,
Speaker 3: for some people looking for let's say, a consistent string
Speaker 3: of less committed encounters, this is a win win. Of course,
Speaker 3: you're going to keep using these apps because when they work,
Speaker 3: it's the best way to find a new partner time
Speaker 3: after time, time after time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and find a new strain of gunnery. You know
Speaker 2: what's there's crazy statistics about uh cases of goneria in
Speaker 2: the United States, and chlamite and syphilis and just sexually
Speaker 2: transmitted diseases. And I wonder if the hook up culture
Speaker 2: has anything to do with it.
Speaker 5: Probably not, that's very much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out the villages. We're going to leave that.
Speaker 2: And all every single cruise.
Speaker 3: Ever even Yeah, because you've been on cruises.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love me a cruise a little upside down pineapple.
Speaker 2: They banned those. I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 3: Exactly what is that?
Speaker 2: I think it's a swinger thing. No, that's definitely a
Speaker 2: swinger thing. Yeah, welcome, come on in, Come on in
Speaker 2: to this room.
Speaker 5: We've got your keys in the bowl.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're open to suggestions.
Speaker 5: Yes, no relationships. Yes, yeah it was.
Speaker 3: It was brilliant. This part of the episode is brought
Speaker 3: to you by Disney Cruises. Oh that's very not upside
Speaker 3: downline Apple or the best or the best or the
Speaker 3: best good, Save Good, Save Matt. We got to think
Speaker 3: about the economics at play. So these dating apps are
Speaker 3: ultimately they are part of for profit companies, which means
Speaker 3: that every time a couple successfully meets on a dating
Speaker 3: app and you know, they run and have their their
Speaker 3: wild romance, they have their happily ever after they leave
Speaker 3: that dating app, which means that for profit entity has
Speaker 3: lost two customers minimum. If we're going upside down Pineapple rules,
Speaker 3: they maybe lost six. You know what I mean the
Speaker 3: to an earlier joke we made off air. Uh, the
Speaker 3: companies are aware of this, you know. Not for nothing
Speaker 3: does Hinge advertise itself again as the dating app that
Speaker 3: is designed to be deleted. But we have to ask
Speaker 3: how do these applications thread the needle right? How do
Speaker 3: they tothe line of remaining attractive to consumers, appearing to
Speaker 3: help people, and at the same time ensuring some percentage
Speaker 3: of those people will stay in the environment long enough
Speaker 3: to help the bottom line. That's pretty I don't know, man,
Speaker 3: that's a tough one.
Speaker 2: Well, it makes me think of a situation I've heard,
Speaker 2: and I wonder how common it is and maybe if
Speaker 2: you guys have heard of this or experienced this, this
Speaker 2: thing that occurs. And again I'm only going off a
Speaker 2: Reddit post, guys, so I really have no idea where
Speaker 2: let's say there's a relationship that started from an online
Speaker 2: dating service like one of these apps, right, and it's
Speaker 2: going okay. Several months in, things seem to be pretty great,
Speaker 2: but for one or another it's either becoming a little
Speaker 2: not boring that's not the right word, a little old
Speaker 2: hat to be with the same person in the fifth
Speaker 2: month or something. And yes, and as a relationship begins,
Speaker 2: that's kind of one of the things that occurs, and
Speaker 2: scientifically psychologically, once you know that what they call the
Speaker 2: honeymoon period kind of ends or is tapering off, and
Speaker 2: a relationship, a true relationship begins. There's this thing that
Speaker 2: I've seen where people will jump back on the apps,
Speaker 2: not necessarily to go on a date with somebody else,
Speaker 2: but to get that hit of oh other people still
Speaker 2: think I'm attractive other people like me. People will talk
Speaker 2: to me and converse with me like this, so that
Speaker 2: you get that you get the dopamine hits, but you
Speaker 2: also get that, I don't know, whatever that thing is
Speaker 2: that it feels like you're getting validation from others, like
Speaker 2: I'm still special even as my relationship that I'm building
Speaker 2: is kind of slowing down.
Speaker 5: A little bit.
Speaker 3: Get that scratch behind your ears right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it makes me feel like it's something
Speaker 2: that is a part of culture, seeping into culture where
Speaker 2: you want or we need that validation in some way
Speaker 2: from other people who are potential, like sexual mates, who
Speaker 2: are not in our immediate circle or in our relationship.
Speaker 3: And this is going to lead us to an interesting
Speaker 3: place because we'll see that folks who are kind of
Speaker 3: relegated to the concept of gen z are tending to
Speaker 3: reject online dating just for this reason, because they're feeling
Speaker 3: that they themselves are gamified. I'd love to bring up
Speaker 3: credit where due Greg Rozalski over a planet money from
Speaker 3: MPR leads us to a larger disturbing trend, which we'll
Speaker 3: see to the point about gen z and the wholehearted
Speaker 3: or I guess the disturbing trends for online dating industries.
Speaker 3: Greg notes a journalist called Quarry Doctro who says that
Speaker 3: online dating is suffering from an online industry wide trend
Speaker 3: called in shitification.
Speaker 5: I think it's pretty clear what that means.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Greg writes. Basically, doctor O says tech platforms
Speaker 3: start off trying to make their user experiences really good
Speaker 3: because their first goal is to try to become universally
Speaker 3: popular and achieve economy of scale. Over time, they inevitably
Speaker 3: pursue their ultimate goal of making money, which ends up
Speaker 3: making the whole user experience in the podcast what you
Speaker 3: see it across industries. Yeah, and I appreciate that we
Speaker 3: have to point out there are critics of podcasting and
Speaker 3: streaming services overall who have noticed something simpler or noted
Speaker 3: something similar, particularly with the proliferation of ads. Let's just
Speaker 3: say it, guys, that's true.
Speaker 4: It's true, and it's not something that folks who are
Speaker 4: part of larger organizations have any control over them.
Speaker 2: Wait, like the three of us, Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, four Andrews here. So in a real free market,
Speaker 3: though in a truly free market, the adherence of the
Speaker 3: dismal science, which is the street name for economics, They
Speaker 3: would argue, the answer to these problems would be to
Speaker 3: just pull up your ten stakes and go to a competitor, right, Like,
Speaker 3: if you don't like the way one person is making
Speaker 3: your hot sauce, go buy hot sauce somewhere else. You
Speaker 3: get tired of tender, you go to Bumble. You get
Speaker 3: tired of humble, you go to Hinge. The problem is
Speaker 3: this is not hot sauce. There are fewer and fewer
Speaker 3: actual competitors out there, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all It's all been Tabasco the whole.
Speaker 3: Time, the Tabasco, the kaiser SoSE of hot sauce.
Speaker 5: Still in my face, good one, classic formula. No complaints here.
Speaker 3: So we have to ask that why are there not
Speaker 3: new dating apps taking over the scene. Are the old,
Speaker 3: tried and true powers of monopoly? Are they preventing the
Speaker 3: growth of new things, similar to the way older larger
Speaker 3: trees block saplings from getting sunlight. Match does not think so.
Speaker 3: To the earlier point, Match says, our goals are perfectly allied.
Speaker 3: They say, look, we get invitations to weddings from people
Speaker 3: who used to use it, like.
Speaker 4: All the Coperate Board of Trustees getting invitations to weddings.
Speaker 5: How do they even.
Speaker 3: Reach the dude?
Speaker 5: But I don't understand. That's Oh my goodness, that sounds
Speaker 5: like some horseship.
Speaker 3: That's what they say though, that's what they say. And
Speaker 3: they said, hey, also, if a happily married couple just
Speaker 3: so happens to encourage their single friends to hop on
Speaker 3: the merry go round the dopamine casino of online romance,
Speaker 3: well that's whim wim for us denro course.
Speaker 4: And I just thought this might be a good time
Speaker 4: to point out as well that you know, this is
Speaker 4: an industry, maybe perhaps due to it's a certification that
Speaker 4: you're talking about ben that's in decline. There's even a
Speaker 4: term that's floating around online called the bumble fumble. There's
Speaker 4: a really good article on The Guardian says bumble fumble
Speaker 4: online dating apps struggle as people swear off swiping online
Speaker 4: dating industry and crisis as shares fall and nearly half
Speaker 4: of all users report negative experiences on the apps that
Speaker 4: includes things like getting scammed, you know.
Speaker 5: Be talking to bots.
Speaker 4: Shares in Bump will crash thirty percent. This article came
Speaker 4: out in August of twenty twenty four. By the way,
Speaker 4: that month, August after a really bad earnings report came out.
Speaker 4: Match Group, when we've been talking about mainly owners of
Speaker 4: tender and match dot Com, Okay, cubit Hinge and others
Speaker 4: also reported a a client in total number of paying
Speaker 4: users for seven straight quarters, and the Pew Research Foundation
Speaker 4: reported that nearly half of all online users and more
Speaker 4: than half of female daters say they experienced very negative outcomes.
Speaker 2: Well, if you look at the yeah, if you go,
Speaker 2: I've got Yahoo Finance up, guys, just looking at Match
Speaker 2: Group Incorporated or mtcch and you can really see back
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, as the stuff that we've been talking about,
Speaker 2: all of these different apps begin populating and Matches acquiring
Speaker 2: all of them, you can see its stock price goes
Speaker 2: from like thirty bucks all the way up to upwards
Speaker 2: of one hundred and fifty so one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: six bucks per share, and then plummeted back down to
Speaker 2: around forty now like thirty something per share. And that
Speaker 2: only you know, that was a span of five years
Speaker 2: where it was that thing you're talking about. Ben they
Speaker 2: defied once they had once they had it, you know,
Speaker 2: on lock and enough users, and then everybody was and.
Speaker 4: I think as people start to experience that intification effect,
Speaker 4: it starts to create a backlash where maybe while this
Speaker 4: when it first started seemed like a really great solution,
Speaker 4: now is starting to seem like more of a problem
Speaker 4: than a solution. And I think people are trying to
Speaker 4: advocate for more irl dating and just meeting people the
Speaker 4: old fashioned way. There's always a backlash like that when
Speaker 4: technology gets this like kind of stranglehold, right.
Speaker 3: And look, we're not saying that no one ever has
Speaker 3: gotten married off of a dating app. We're not saying
Speaker 3: that no one ever has written to the authors of
Speaker 3: an app like this or a dating site and said, hey,
Speaker 3: we want you to come celebrate our nuptials. But we
Speaker 3: are saying the trends of monopolization hold true in pretty
Speaker 3: much every single market where monopolies are allowed to flourish,
Speaker 3: no matter what it is. Online dating not an exception.
Speaker 3: Many people new to the idea of these apps, they
Speaker 3: may have little to know concept of how big this
Speaker 3: operation has become, how many seemingly distinct apps are really
Speaker 3: just cuddly tentacles of a massive corporate entity out there
Speaker 3: in the deep, pulling your money ultimately to the same
Speaker 3: place and that's where we have to point it out.
Speaker 3: Longtime fellow conspiracy realist, you know what we say about
Speaker 3: informed consent.
Speaker 5: It's good.
Speaker 3: That's our stance. That's our hard stance on that. We'll
Speaker 3: pause for a word from our sponsors, and we've returned.
Speaker 3: Diving into the illuminati of online dating. Bonus points to
Speaker 3: Greg by the way for freestyling a possible solution to
Speaker 3: the dating app dilemma. What if there was an app,
Speaker 3: and this is Greg's idea. I'm not going to steal
Speaker 3: his idea. What if there was an app that only
Speaker 3: got paid when users successfully match and then leave the app?
Speaker 3: What if that is the freemium? What if what if
Speaker 3: you only pay when you meet success?
Speaker 5: Putting your money where your mouth is.
Speaker 4: So that is well, that is how do you enforce it?
Speaker 2: Because you everybody would just say, oh, I never found
Speaker 2: a match, come on, honey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: It's like when Uber drivers they don't get shown where
Speaker 4: they're supposed to drive their customer to until they do
Speaker 4: the pickup, and then some of them will actually cancel
Speaker 4: the ride and just get paid by the person individually
Speaker 4: off app. It's the easiest thing in the world to do,
Speaker 4: and a little bit hard to track her enforce.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, maybe we have an uber episode on the
Speaker 3: way as well. We have to say it, guys, We
Speaker 3: have to say it, folks. The creators of Match and
Speaker 3: all the employees working their past, present in future. They
Speaker 3: are not supervillains. We assure you. There is no one
Speaker 3: waking up gleefully dancing at the idea of ruining a
Speaker 3: relationship so they will have a user spending more money
Speaker 3: to mend their broken heart. The business depends upon being
Speaker 3: able to point to success. It's kind of like the dealers.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this. It's like the dealers at
Speaker 3: a Vegas casino. They're obeying the rules of a game
Speaker 3: that the users agreed to play. So whether you're swiping
Speaker 3: right on tender, whether you're doubling down on like, you know,
Speaker 3: an eleven or something, I don't know, all black.
Speaker 5: Sep you're pretty good at it.
Speaker 4: But it also benefits the house for people to witness
Speaker 4: somebody making big, striking it big on one of those machines.
Speaker 4: They got to pay out, you know, legally, that is
Speaker 4: definitely a casino regulation that they have to pay out
Speaker 4: a certain amount of time.
Speaker 5: We've talked about this on the show.
Speaker 4: But that is also a big moment where someone walking
Speaker 4: through the casino sees that happen and says, that could
Speaker 4: be me.
Speaker 5: So if there weren't some success on these apps, they'd
Speaker 5: be worthless.
Speaker 4: And that was you know, maybe more in line with
Speaker 4: the creation of the app that got people on board.
Speaker 4: And now that indification I got to keep saying it's
Speaker 4: such a great word has really led to decreased success
Speaker 4: stories and has led to a like a kind of
Speaker 4: an exodus of these users.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it for me, it's been kind of
Speaker 2: terrible just they even exist. But I and I wonder
Speaker 2: if that if it causes any other types of anxieties
Speaker 2: that I'm not thinking it does.
Speaker 4: Create a certain throwaway culture of relationships, you know, as
Speaker 4: kind of like, well, if this one doesn't work out,
Speaker 4: I'm just back on the apps and the fact that
Speaker 4: app is there in your mind, and I think reasonably
Speaker 4: so you're thinking, well, there's just there's just she's just
Speaker 4: a swipe away from replacing me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and and with those apps, as we said, they
Speaker 2: want engagement. So all they really want is for you
Speaker 2: to be talking with people, messaging people, and engaging in
Speaker 2: some other way with people not it doesn't mean they
Speaker 2: don't get anything if you actually go on a date.
Speaker 5: Ever, right, there's no way of even tracking that.
Speaker 4: There's no box to tick saying date, you know, achievement
Speaker 4: unlocked or whatever, you get a gold star.
Speaker 5: It's not a thing.
Speaker 2: They get something if you either paid for something or
Speaker 2: if you saw an ad, which just means you're going
Speaker 2: through different screens.
Speaker 4: On the social media platform, that's what it's just a
Speaker 4: little more insular and a little more like not open
Speaker 4: to the public. And again, on Instagram, you can have
Speaker 4: a private profile, so there are ways of doing that
Speaker 4: as well. But let's make no mistake, these apps are
Speaker 4: social media platforms. They're just of a different flavor.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that point. I'd also like to give if
Speaker 3: we could take our hats off. We're an audio show,
Speaker 3: so everybody imagine us taking our hats off. In commemoration
Speaker 3: of all our friends, our bros, our sisses, our loved
Speaker 3: ones who thought Tender would solve their problems. I want
Speaker 3: to give a special shout out to the multiple friends
Speaker 3: of mine who got super into online dating. And I'll
Speaker 3: give an anonymous shout out here. One person described it
Speaker 3: to me as an actor in the Atlanta area as
Speaker 3: an unending series auditions, and sometimes you end up asking yourself,
Speaker 3: why am I at this audition for a part? I
Speaker 3: did not want to play dude? And that is a
Speaker 3: pretty poetic summation of the dopamine casino.
Speaker 4: I completely agree, and I did just I think I
Speaker 4: just sort of glossed over it. But in that article
Speaker 4: in The Guardian, there was another stat that said that
Speaker 4: around fifty percent of users of these types of apps
Speaker 4: that they polled have felt as though they were targeted
Speaker 4: by some sort of scam. And I just wanted to
Speaker 4: point out that I maybe mentioned this before. I was
Speaker 4: on jury duty here in Atlanta a year or two ago,
Speaker 4: and I didn't actually get picked, but I got to
Speaker 4: the point of like selection where they kind of give
Speaker 4: you a little bit of a rundown of the case,
Speaker 4: and it became very clear that it was about a
Speaker 4: robbery and kidnapping that took place when someone swiped on
Speaker 4: a dating app and was targeted and robbed and you know,
Speaker 4: taking advantage of and in pretty horrific ways. I did
Speaker 4: not actually get to be part of the trial, but
Speaker 4: I got enough of the information to realize that was
Speaker 4: the case. And if i'm you know, in my limited
Speaker 4: experience with this kind of stuff, ran across a case
Speaker 4: like that, I'm sure there's a heck of a lot
Speaker 4: more of.
Speaker 3: Them, and we hope those people are okay. There are
Speaker 3: so many other controversies we have yet to get to,
Speaker 3: involving cases of assault, involving incredibly heinous things up to
Speaker 3: and beyond murder. This does happen in this strange casino.
Speaker 3: We'd like to give a special thanks again to the
Speaker 3: fantastic work of the good folks at Land of the
Speaker 3: Giants Dating Games Episode two in particular, that podcast dives
Speaker 3: deep into the backstory of match groups, so please check
Speaker 3: out their work for more information free wherever you find
Speaker 3: your favorite shows. We're not we're not paid to co
Speaker 3: sign this. We just think they did very good work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely shout out to Sanjeitta and Latschmi who hosted that.
Speaker 5: Again.
Speaker 2: We went through the entire season seven very very good.
Speaker 3: And here at the very end of twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: is the humans call it. Should you, like so many
Speaker 3: other people on this planet, be looking for love online
Speaker 3: or in person, We wish you the best, without reservation.
Speaker 3: Please remember there is one honest god solution to the
Speaker 3: idea of finding true love. Learn to trust and love yourself,
Speaker 3: do your best to be the kind of person that
Speaker 3: you one day could love.
Speaker 2: And set boundaries.
Speaker 3: It sounds a little hallmarky, but I think it's true,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's.
Speaker 5: Part of love. I don't man. Here we go.
Speaker 3: It's a two parter, so find us you know.
Speaker 5: Definitely agree with you, Ben and Matt as well.
Speaker 4: Boundaries are very, very important, whether you're online dating or
Speaker 4: dating IRL or.
Speaker 5: Just even with your friends.
Speaker 4: You know, It's it's something that I think cannot be
Speaker 4: overstated how important teaching people as Ben, you taught me
Speaker 4: this expression to how to treat you and not accept
Speaker 4: anything less than what you deserve.
Speaker 3: And this is the end of our two part series
Speaker 3: on the Illuminati of online dating. We want to hear
Speaker 3: your thoughts. We hope this finds you well amid grand adventure.
Speaker 3: We hope that you are doing your best to be
Speaker 3: the kind of person that you can love and to
Speaker 3: set some boundaries. We have three ways you can contact
Speaker 3: us on the internet via email, on telephone lines, and
Speaker 3: then on just the regular onlines. We're on We're not
Speaker 3: on Farmers only anymore. I had to had to pull
Speaker 3: out at that where.
Speaker 4: My farmers had for a beanie I'm wearing right now,
Speaker 4: keeping my skull alarm. You can find us all over
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Speaker 4: exist on Facebook, where we have.
Speaker 5: Our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, as well
Speaker 5: as on.
Speaker 4: X FKA, Twitter and YouTube where we have video content
Speaker 4: for your perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 5: However, we are Conspiracy Stuff a show.
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. When you call in, give yourself a
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. We highly recommend
Speaker 2: you put that number in your phone as a contact
Speaker 2: just in case it gives you a little ring back.
Speaker 2: If you've got more to say than can fit in
Speaker 2: a three minute message, why out instead send us a
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Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
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