1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: my name is Nolan. 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as ulways with our 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 3: super producer Andrew Treyforce Howard. Most importantly, you are you. 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 3: want you to know. Oh, hold the phone, super like us, 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: throw us a rose, whatever you must do. We're so 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: glad you're here. This is part two of a two 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: part series on the illuminati of online dating and guys 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 3: with the magic of editing. We're not quite sure where 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: this episode picks up, are we. 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: No, But we're gonna find out in just a moment. 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 4: Joining our show already in progress in media arrests, you 18 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 4: know the one here goes. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for swiping right on the second episode, super 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: like us, Send us roses, Send us roses. 21 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: Back to our Atlantic article. There's a great quote that 22 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: sums it up. 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 5: That's right. 24 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 4: On April twenty first, nineteenninety five, Cremen launchmatch dot Com 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 4: Match was a free service supported by ads, with the 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 4: idea to charge for subscriptions when it grew, and there 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 4: was only one way for it to reach that point. 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 5: We need more women, Kremen. 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 4: Shouted, like, it's not literally uh storming through No, he did. 30 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: He said it literally, well, storming through their basement office. 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: Everyone wants to go to a party where there's women. 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 5: It's not creepy at all. 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, every woman means ten guys join. He literally said 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 4: this out loud apparently as well. 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: So let's talk about going to the club. Got club, 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: We're all fam When when you go to the club, 37 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: you may have noticed that clubs will generally allow groups 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 2: of women into the club. Why do they have why 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: do they have women's and eye ladies and night or 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 2: whatever they call those things. They will then have big lines, 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: generally of men waiting to get in, and they will 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: pay good money to go into that club. What I 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: think it's the exact same thing that begins to happen 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: here when Match says, hey, let's make these guys buy 45 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: access to this club essentially where there will be some women. 46 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: The women know that men are willing to buy their 47 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: way into this thing. They're they're committed to some extent, 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: there's some buy in to it, literally, so it's not 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: just a bunch of random dudes showing up on your. 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 5: The bar entry the barriers. 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in your minds. 52 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,279 Speaker 3: Again, we're coming from a very we're telling you Gary's mentality, 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: which is very hetero sexual, to be quite honest. 54 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 5: Right. 55 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: So one of the things that fran does very well 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 3: here fran Meyer is she says, we have to be inclusive, right, 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: Everybody wants to meet someone, So how do we find 58 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: those people? How do we connect them, and how do 59 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: we make a little vigorous you know, in the process. 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: And it turns out the team was correct there. As 61 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 3: we study the evolution of dating apps, as we study 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: the evolution of match Group through its various iterations, what 63 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: we see is further inclusiveness such that it allows people 64 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: to gather data about you. This organization is a dating 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: app conglomerate today with millions of users and over forty 66 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: five seemingly distinct brands around the world. And these brands, 67 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 3: to your earlier points, guys, they use the same business model. 68 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 3: They're freemium, they're based on subscriptions, and those in app 69 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: what do we call them in video games. 70 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: Micro transactions microaggressions as well. No, for sure, in app 71 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 4: purchases micro transactions, they don't seem like much at the time, 72 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 4: but add it up over the course of your use 73 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 4: of the app or the game, not to mention every 74 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 4: user's use of the app or the game, that's big money. 75 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I'll be one hundred with you, guys. I 76 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 3: have not had the privilege nor opportunity to do online dating. 77 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: I'm very excited about the gamification of the whole thing. 78 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: You know, do a little super like or throw a 79 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 3: rose or a bumb Do you throw a bumble? 80 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: I think the issue, though, ben or that what I've 81 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 4: experienced is they're not upping your. 82 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 5: Odds at all. 83 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 4: Like it's really just kind of like preying on people 84 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 4: who think that if they pay this extra cost, they're 85 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 4: going to be more likely to get a match, and 86 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 4: that's just not true, especially if you're kind of, you know, 87 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 4: maybe not like some sort of traditionally attractive human being, 88 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 4: which I think these are focusing on and geared towards. 89 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 4: Is folks that think this will give them an edge, 90 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 4: when in fact it's just not true. 91 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: Well, according to the creators, it's very true. 92 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 5: Guys. 93 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: The roses changed the game, I don't know, decided that 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: you should pay for roses. 95 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: And they still call it a game too far. 96 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, well it is. Yeah, it's so funny. They again, 97 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: it's just weird to hear the people who are in 98 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: charge of these things, because there's you know, there's a 99 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: there's a head of Tinder, there's a head of all 100 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: of them hins and but there's also a head of 101 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,679 Speaker 2: match Group. 102 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: And yeah, and. 103 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: The way because it's all algorithm based, it's all algorithm 104 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: run and each one has its own algorithm, and each 105 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: of the algorithms is built a little differently and is 106 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: gamified in such a way. But you are so right. 107 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: They will not call it a game. They don't. It 108 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: is not that this is very serious business. This is 109 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: helping people find a partner. 110 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, yeah, yeah, it sure is. That's their singular philosophy, right, 111 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: which leads us to the other part. Is this a monopoly? 112 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 3: A match pretty much runs the online dating business. Like 113 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: they have what will call market capture. They own two 114 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: thirds of the dating app market easy in the West. 115 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: You could call it a monopoly, as the big fish 116 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 3: in the pond here I can't well, should have done 117 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: it plenty of. 118 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: I just kind of feel like with business these days, 119 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 4: the question of whether or not something is a monopoly 120 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 4: is almost like missing the point because it just feels 121 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 4: like no one's being It's so rare for regulating groups 122 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: and government organizations to truly go after and bust up 123 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: monopolies anymore, and if they do, it seems to be 124 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 4: kind of like a gesture to show that we mean business. 125 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, like so many 126 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 4: things are monopolies, like MasterCard and Visa are monopolies, you know, 127 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 4: I mean, I. 128 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 5: Just the term. 129 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 4: It just seems to be changing and becoming more and 130 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 4: more amorphous and hard to pin down or at least 131 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: in terms of like what regulations actually exist. So I 132 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 4: would say, yes, it's definitely a monopoly, but does the 133 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 4: government care or does anybody really care? 134 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: Ah, That's where we go into this, And I'm glad 135 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 3: you brought this up, because again it's the old parable 136 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 3: of the grocery store aisle looking for a box at 137 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: cereal and you see this vast panopoly on Aisle eleven, 138 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 3: Aisle twelve, whatever, tell us your aisle for cereal you 139 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 3: see all these things that look to be distinct brands, 140 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: they're ultimately owned by a handful of huge corporations. Match 141 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: Group is the hidden hand on the dating apps on 142 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 3: two thirds of them. Easy again, Now to your point, Noel, 143 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: we might rightly wonder why there's new anti trust action 144 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: going on. That's because according to the federal government of 145 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: the United States, it is not illegal to obtain a 146 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 3: monopoly through the use of superior products, innovation, or business acumen, 147 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: whatever that means, so long as you are not engaged 148 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 3: in criminal activity. And Match got to where it is 149 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: by aggressively acquiring other companies, brands, and the online dating space. 150 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: But they weren't really doing anything that any other company 151 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: wouldn't do. 152 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 5: They were just kind of first to market. 153 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: And then, like many big organizations like that that are 154 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: first to market, they have the power to buy up. 155 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 5: All of their competitors and then put them under their umbrella. 156 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 4: We know, we may surely we see that with Facebook 157 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 4: and and them buying up all the apps that could 158 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: potentially compete with their business or to fight against their 159 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 4: main flagship app, Facebook for example, becoming increasingly irrelevant. 160 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 5: So they've got you know, Instagram to lean on. Yeah. 161 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: Well, in the case of match, they saw Tinder doing 162 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: something different, They're like, oh, wow, that's crazy, we need 163 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: to acquire them. And then he like Hinge came along 164 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we're gonna we're the Tender killer 165 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, let's get that. And then they 166 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: like they still have the campaigns like Hinge. It's it's 167 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: not like Tinder get Hinge. It's so different get Hinge. 168 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: But then you get on Hinge and then it's all 169 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: the same users that are on Tender and you're matching 170 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: with the same people on the on a different app. 171 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 5: What is happening? 172 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 4: So it's sort of like giant beverage companies buying up 173 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 4: lo mom and pop breweries and giving the illusion that 174 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 4: you're getting some sort of bespoke, handmade product. And maybe 175 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 4: it still is, and obviously they changed the formulas oftentimes, 176 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 4: but you really are just still paying upstairs to Bevco 177 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 4: or whatever whatever the frick you know what I'm talking about, 178 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 4: Bush or what have you? 179 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 3: Sure that's the one in bev Yeah, shout out young brands, 180 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 3: shout out how earlier grocery store serial example. We also 181 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: know the antitrust conversation would go a different way if 182 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: Match was supplying what would be considered an essential service 183 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: in terms of national security. So make no mistake. If 184 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 3: this single corporate entity controlled two thirds of the world's 185 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: fossil fuels, you know, there might be some conversations, some 186 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 3: very different ones. Shout out aside, hope you have a 187 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: good time with your roommate, Snowden. 188 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope we have a good time with I 189 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: don't know, isis I mean this conversation. 190 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: Hey, free Syrian Army is what they're. 191 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 4: Showing one hundred exactly, I mean this whole conversation though, 192 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,359 Speaker 4: about monopolies and the effects that they have on consumers. 193 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 4: There's a million different ways to slice it. And you're 194 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 4: absolutely right, Ben, you know, you know, compared to something 195 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 4: like fossil fuels or you know, armaments or what have you, 196 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 4: you know, I mean dating, you know, owning the dating 197 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 4: world online seems comparatively frivolous. 198 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 5: Right. 199 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and with that, we're going to take a 200 00:11:47,960 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: quick break. We'll be right back after we're from our sponsors. 201 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: And we've returned. So this logically brings us to another question. 202 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 3: Given that Match owns so many things, do they have 203 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 3: a consistent to your question, Matt, do they have a 204 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: consistent philosophy and strategy across all these different dating services? 205 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 3: Put simply, does Match actually want its users to meet 206 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: what they would see as success? 207 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 5: Like? 208 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: Do they want you to fall in love? Does that 209 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: mean leaving the app? Is romance? True romance? Not the 210 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 3: movie the actual experience. Is it bad for business? With Match? 211 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 5: Was it hinges like whole like sales pitch? Was that 212 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 5: I think we want you to quit? Like it? Is that? 213 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? 214 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 3: Hinge advertised itself as the dating app designed to. 215 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 5: Be that's right. 216 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, so until your boyfriend gets really busy 217 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: and then just load it back up on your phone 218 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: again and see what. 219 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 5: Just to your point, Ben, like that people are already 220 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 5: thinking this. 221 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 4: Therefore they were like, okay, we need to combat this, 222 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 4: you know, from a marketing standpoint. So the fact that 223 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 4: this is like already on people's minds probably, I think, 224 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 4: is really indicative of the trends. 225 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: It's a real back of badgers. You know. It's well 226 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: and good for consumers to log onto an app to 227 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 3: create a profile find the love of their life. But 228 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 3: the truth is dating services make more consistent money when 229 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: their users return, when they keep coming back. That's why 230 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: you see what you were talking about, Matt, The gamified 231 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: elements across these apps, the notifications that want you to 232 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: always be plugged in. That's why you see the freemium model. Like, yeah, 233 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 3: you get a free profile, you know, post a picture 234 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: you holding a big fish, you know what I mean, 235 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: high fiving some who's a celebrity. 236 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 5: Now I don't remember Stil O'Neill. 237 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 3: Here's a picture you high five in Shaquille O'Neill. That 238 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 3: means that means you're tall, you know what I mean? 239 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 5: Otherwise you look like baby hands. That would maybe not 240 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 5: be the best picture to bose. 241 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 3: But then if you want to even if you are 242 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: high fiving Shaquille O'Neill while you guys went fishing, you 243 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: still are going to be pushed to pay money at 244 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: some point to get your super likes or you know, 245 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: your super swipes. God, I sound old to get a 246 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: higher visibility profile. Oh, or importantly to get the ability 247 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 3: to message people who have not shown interest in you. 248 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's how weird. I didn't even know that 249 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 5: was a thing. 250 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 4: And you'd think that the women on the apps wouldn't 251 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 4: want that. 252 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 5: That would not be good. 253 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: It's called dming, right, that's still a thing, but that's 254 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: on interest. 255 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, you're sneaking into those dms, but you're not supposed 256 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 5: to be able to do that. 257 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: Daddy mom one. 258 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: Sneak in. 259 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 5: Man, it is flatten into those dms, you know. 260 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 4: But again, that just seems to go against inherently against 261 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 4: the whole philosophy that made women be down with joining these. 262 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 5: Apps in the first place. 263 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 4: So it's sort of like moving the goalpost a little bit, 264 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 4: you know, by adding some of these extra features. 265 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we need engagement. Baby, it's a different 266 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: kind than you were maybe thinking about when you downloaded this. 267 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: I will pay someone to validate me with an emoji. 268 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 5: Just hit me with the thig. I remember what I 269 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 5: was gonna say. 270 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 4: It just reminds me too of the way that all 271 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: social media apps, at the end of the day, these 272 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 4: are social media apps have gone with like you know, 273 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: big users, big celebrities that have a gazillion followers, every 274 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 4: one of their followers doesn't see every one of their posts, 275 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 4: and they they're they're you know, these companies like Facebook 276 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: and whatever, TikTok. I think you have to like you 277 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 4: pay in a little bit to make sure your post 278 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: gets wider distribution. You know, you cannot expect that just 279 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 4: it's because you have a five hundred thousand followers that 280 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: every one of those followers is going to see your post. 281 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 4: You're kind of getting what's the word shadow band or 282 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: whatever it Maybe that's the more extreme version, but this 283 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 4: is very much a thing just in social media in general. 284 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is a dopamine casino, and perhaps a 285 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 3: dangerous one. 286 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 5: We know. 287 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: To the earlier point about what we call being platform agnostic, 288 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: I love what you're bringing up here, No, because we 289 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: see that habitual users of dating applications tend to have 290 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: more than one app. If someone has a tender, they 291 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: have another thing. If someone has a bumble, they have 292 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 3: another thing. And the reason they have this is because 293 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: the popularity of this stuff moves with the fickle mercurial herd. 294 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: The field of dreams only works when there are other 295 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: people on the baseball field. So when you're in a 296 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 3: dead dating app, you feel kind of dumb. You feel 297 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 3: like you're wasting your time. See go to the next one. 298 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: And this is something that is easily leveraged. If you 299 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 3: own two thirds of the dating apps. Now you have 300 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: a consumer, not once, not twice, but multiple times. All 301 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 3: the money goes to you. Match makes money either way 302 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 3: as long as you keep using it. So for you know, 303 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 3: for some people looking for let's say, a consistent string 304 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 3: of less committed encounters, this is a win win. Of course, 305 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 3: you're going to keep using these apps because when they work, 306 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: it's the best way to find a new partner time 307 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: after time, time after time. 308 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and find a new strain of gunnery. You know 309 00:17:53,560 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: what's there's crazy statistics about uh cases of goneria in 310 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: the United States, and chlamite and syphilis and just sexually 311 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 2: transmitted diseases. And I wonder if the hook up culture 312 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 2: has anything to do with it. 313 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 5: Probably not, that's very much. 314 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out the villages. We're going to leave that. 315 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: And all every single cruise. 316 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 3: Ever even Yeah, because you've been on cruises. 317 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: Oh, I love me a cruise a little upside down pineapple. 318 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: They banned those. I can't do that anymore. 319 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 3: Exactly what is that? 320 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: I think it's a swinger thing. No, that's definitely a 321 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 2: swinger thing. Yeah, welcome, come on in, Come on in 322 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 2: to this room. 323 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 5: We've got your keys in the bowl. 324 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're open to suggestions. 325 00:18:53,119 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 5: Yes, no relationships. Yes, yeah it was. 326 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: It was brilliant. This part of the episode is brought 327 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: to you by Disney Cruises. Oh that's very not upside 328 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 3: downline Apple or the best or the best or the 329 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: best good, Save Good, Save Matt. We got to think 330 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: about the economics at play. So these dating apps are 331 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 3: ultimately they are part of for profit companies, which means 332 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: that every time a couple successfully meets on a dating 333 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: app and you know, they run and have their their 334 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: wild romance, they have their happily ever after they leave 335 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: that dating app, which means that for profit entity has 336 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 3: lost two customers minimum. If we're going upside down Pineapple rules, 337 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: they maybe lost six. You know what I mean the 338 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 3: to an earlier joke we made off air. Uh, the 339 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 3: companies are aware of this, you know. Not for nothing 340 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: does Hinge advertise itself again as the dating app that 341 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: is designed to be deleted. But we have to ask 342 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 3: how do these applications thread the needle right? How do 343 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: they tothe line of remaining attractive to consumers, appearing to 344 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 3: help people, and at the same time ensuring some percentage 345 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 3: of those people will stay in the environment long enough 346 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: to help the bottom line. That's pretty I don't know, man, 347 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: that's a tough one. 348 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 2: Well, it makes me think of a situation I've heard, 349 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 2: and I wonder how common it is and maybe if 350 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: you guys have heard of this or experienced this, this 351 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: thing that occurs. And again I'm only going off a 352 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 2: Reddit post, guys, so I really have no idea where 353 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: let's say there's a relationship that started from an online 354 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: dating service like one of these apps, right, and it's 355 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 2: going okay. Several months in, things seem to be pretty great, 356 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 2: but for one or another it's either becoming a little 357 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 2: not boring that's not the right word, a little old 358 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: hat to be with the same person in the fifth 359 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 2: month or something. And yes, and as a relationship begins, 360 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: that's kind of one of the things that occurs, and 361 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: scientifically psychologically, once you know that what they call the 362 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 2: honeymoon period kind of ends or is tapering off, and 363 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 2: a relationship, a true relationship begins. There's this thing that 364 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 2: I've seen where people will jump back on the apps, 365 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 2: not necessarily to go on a date with somebody else, 366 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: but to get that hit of oh other people still 367 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: think I'm attractive other people like me. People will talk 368 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 2: to me and converse with me like this, so that 369 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: you get that you get the dopamine hits, but you 370 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: also get that, I don't know, whatever that thing is 371 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 2: that it feels like you're getting validation from others, like 372 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: I'm still special even as my relationship that I'm building 373 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 2: is kind of slowing down. 374 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 5: A little bit. 375 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 3: Get that scratch behind your ears right. 376 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it makes me feel like it's something 377 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: that is a part of culture, seeping into culture where 378 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: you want or we need that validation in some way 379 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: from other people who are potential, like sexual mates, who 380 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 2: are not in our immediate circle or in our relationship. 381 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 3: And this is going to lead us to an interesting 382 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 3: place because we'll see that folks who are kind of 383 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: relegated to the concept of gen z are tending to 384 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: reject online dating just for this reason, because they're feeling 385 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 3: that they themselves are gamified. I'd love to bring up 386 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 3: credit where due Greg Rozalski over a planet money from 387 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: MPR leads us to a larger disturbing trend, which we'll 388 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: see to the point about gen z and the wholehearted 389 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 3: or I guess the disturbing trends for online dating industries. 390 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 3: Greg notes a journalist called Quarry Doctro who says that 391 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 3: online dating is suffering from an online industry wide trend 392 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 3: called in shitification. 393 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 5: I think it's pretty clear what that means. 394 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Greg writes. Basically, doctor O says tech platforms 395 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 3: start off trying to make their user experiences really good 396 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 3: because their first goal is to try to become universally 397 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 3: popular and achieve economy of scale. Over time, they inevitably 398 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 3: pursue their ultimate goal of making money, which ends up 399 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: making the whole user experience in the podcast what you 400 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 3: see it across industries. Yeah, and I appreciate that we 401 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 3: have to point out there are critics of podcasting and 402 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: streaming services overall who have noticed something simpler or noted 403 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: something similar, particularly with the proliferation of ads. Let's just 404 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 3: say it, guys, that's true. 405 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 4: It's true, and it's not something that folks who are 406 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 4: part of larger organizations have any control over them. 407 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: Wait, like the three of us, Oh. 408 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, four Andrews here. So in a real free market, 409 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 3: though in a truly free market, the adherence of the 410 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 3: dismal science, which is the street name for economics, They 411 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 3: would argue, the answer to these problems would be to 412 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 3: just pull up your ten stakes and go to a competitor, right, Like, 413 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 3: if you don't like the way one person is making 414 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 3: your hot sauce, go buy hot sauce somewhere else. You 415 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: get tired of tender, you go to Bumble. You get 416 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: tired of humble, you go to Hinge. The problem is 417 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 3: this is not hot sauce. There are fewer and fewer 418 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 3: actual competitors out there, right. 419 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all It's all been Tabasco the whole. 420 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 3: Time, the Tabasco, the kaiser SoSE of hot sauce. 421 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 5: Still in my face, good one, classic formula. No complaints here. 422 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 3: So we have to ask that why are there not 423 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 3: new dating apps taking over the scene. Are the old, 424 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 3: tried and true powers of monopoly? Are they preventing the 425 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 3: growth of new things, similar to the way older larger 426 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 3: trees block saplings from getting sunlight. Match does not think so. 427 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: To the earlier point, Match says, our goals are perfectly allied. 428 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: They say, look, we get invitations to weddings from people 429 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 3: who used to use it, like. 430 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 4: All the Coperate Board of Trustees getting invitations to weddings. 431 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 5: How do they even. 432 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 3: Reach the dude? 433 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 5: But I don't understand. That's Oh my goodness, that sounds 434 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 5: like some horseship. 435 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 3: That's what they say though, that's what they say. And 436 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: they said, hey, also, if a happily married couple just 437 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 3: so happens to encourage their single friends to hop on 438 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 3: the merry go round the dopamine casino of online romance, 439 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 3: well that's whim wim for us denro course. 440 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 4: And I just thought this might be a good time 441 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 4: to point out as well that you know, this is 442 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 4: an industry, maybe perhaps due to it's a certification that 443 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 4: you're talking about ben that's in decline. There's even a 444 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 4: term that's floating around online called the bumble fumble. There's 445 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 4: a really good article on The Guardian says bumble fumble 446 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 4: online dating apps struggle as people swear off swiping online 447 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 4: dating industry and crisis as shares fall and nearly half 448 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 4: of all users report negative experiences on the apps that 449 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 4: includes things like getting scammed, you know. 450 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 5: Be talking to bots. 451 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 4: Shares in Bump will crash thirty percent. This article came 452 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 4: out in August of twenty twenty four. By the way, 453 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 4: that month, August after a really bad earnings report came out. 454 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 4: Match Group, when we've been talking about mainly owners of 455 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 4: tender and match dot Com, Okay, cubit Hinge and others 456 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 4: also reported a a client in total number of paying 457 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 4: users for seven straight quarters, and the Pew Research Foundation 458 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 4: reported that nearly half of all online users and more 459 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 4: than half of female daters say they experienced very negative outcomes. 460 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: Well, if you look at the yeah, if you go, 461 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: I've got Yahoo Finance up, guys, just looking at Match 462 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 2: Group Incorporated or mtcch and you can really see back 463 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, as the stuff that we've been talking about, 464 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 2: all of these different apps begin populating and Matches acquiring 465 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: all of them, you can see its stock price goes 466 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: from like thirty bucks all the way up to upwards 467 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: of one hundred and fifty so one hundred and fifty 468 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: six bucks per share, and then plummeted back down to 469 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 2: around forty now like thirty something per share. And that 470 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 2: only you know, that was a span of five years 471 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: where it was that thing you're talking about. Ben they 472 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 2: defied once they had once they had it, you know, 473 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: on lock and enough users, and then everybody was and. 474 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 4: I think as people start to experience that intification effect, 475 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 4: it starts to create a backlash where maybe while this 476 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 4: when it first started seemed like a really great solution, 477 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 4: now is starting to seem like more of a problem 478 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 4: than a solution. And I think people are trying to 479 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 4: advocate for more irl dating and just meeting people the 480 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 4: old fashioned way. There's always a backlash like that when 481 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 4: technology gets this like kind of stranglehold, right. 482 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 3: And look, we're not saying that no one ever has 483 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: gotten married off of a dating app. We're not saying 484 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: that no one ever has written to the authors of 485 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: an app like this or a dating site and said, hey, 486 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: we want you to come celebrate our nuptials. But we 487 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: are saying the trends of monopolization hold true in pretty 488 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 3: much every single market where monopolies are allowed to flourish, 489 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: no matter what it is. Online dating not an exception. 490 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: Many people new to the idea of these apps, they 491 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 3: may have little to know concept of how big this 492 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 3: operation has become, how many seemingly distinct apps are really 493 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 3: just cuddly tentacles of a massive corporate entity out there 494 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: in the deep, pulling your money ultimately to the same 495 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: place and that's where we have to point it out. 496 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 3: Longtime fellow conspiracy realist, you know what we say about 497 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: informed consent. 498 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 5: It's good. 499 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 3: That's our stance. That's our hard stance on that. We'll 500 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 3: pause for a word from our sponsors, and we've returned. 501 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: Diving into the illuminati of online dating. Bonus points to 502 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: Greg by the way for freestyling a possible solution to 503 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 3: the dating app dilemma. What if there was an app, 504 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 3: and this is Greg's idea. I'm not going to steal 505 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 3: his idea. What if there was an app that only 506 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 3: got paid when users successfully match and then leave the app? 507 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 3: What if that is the freemium? What if what if 508 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 3: you only pay when you meet success? 509 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,239 Speaker 5: Putting your money where your mouth is. 510 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 4: So that is well, that is how do you enforce it? 511 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: Because you everybody would just say, oh, I never found 512 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: a match, come on, honey. 513 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 514 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: It's like when Uber drivers they don't get shown where 515 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 4: they're supposed to drive their customer to until they do 516 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 4: the pickup, and then some of them will actually cancel 517 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 4: the ride and just get paid by the person individually 518 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 4: off app. It's the easiest thing in the world to do, 519 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 4: and a little bit hard to track her enforce. 520 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, maybe we have an uber episode on the 521 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: way as well. We have to say it, guys, We 522 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 3: have to say it, folks. The creators of Match and 523 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 3: all the employees working their past, present in future. They 524 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: are not supervillains. We assure you. There is no one 525 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 3: waking up gleefully dancing at the idea of ruining a 526 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: relationship so they will have a user spending more money 527 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: to mend their broken heart. The business depends upon being 528 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 3: able to point to success. It's kind of like the dealers. 529 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 3: I was thinking about this. It's like the dealers at 530 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 3: a Vegas casino. They're obeying the rules of a game 531 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 3: that the users agreed to play. So whether you're swiping 532 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 3: right on tender, whether you're doubling down on like, you know, 533 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 3: an eleven or something, I don't know, all black. 534 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 5: Sep you're pretty good at it. 535 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 4: But it also benefits the house for people to witness 536 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 4: somebody making big, striking it big on one of those machines. 537 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 4: They got to pay out, you know, legally, that is 538 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 4: definitely a casino regulation that they have to pay out 539 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 4: a certain amount of time. 540 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 5: We've talked about this on the show. 541 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 4: But that is also a big moment where someone walking 542 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 4: through the casino sees that happen and says, that could 543 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 4: be me. 544 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 5: So if there weren't some success on these apps, they'd 545 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 5: be worthless. 546 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: And that was you know, maybe more in line with 547 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 4: the creation of the app that got people on board. 548 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 4: And now that indification I got to keep saying it's 549 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 4: such a great word has really led to decreased success 550 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 4: stories and has led to a like a kind of 551 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 4: an exodus of these users. 552 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it for me, it's been kind of 553 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: terrible just they even exist. But I and I wonder 554 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 2: if that if it causes any other types of anxieties 555 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: that I'm not thinking it does. 556 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 4: Create a certain throwaway culture of relationships, you know, as 557 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 4: kind of like, well, if this one doesn't work out, 558 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 4: I'm just back on the apps and the fact that 559 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 4: app is there in your mind, and I think reasonably 560 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 4: so you're thinking, well, there's just there's just she's just 561 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 4: a swipe away from replacing me. 562 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. 563 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 2: Well, and and with those apps, as we said, they 564 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: want engagement. So all they really want is for you 565 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: to be talking with people, messaging people, and engaging in 566 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: some other way with people not it doesn't mean they 567 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: don't get anything if you actually go on a date. 568 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 5: Ever, right, there's no way of even tracking that. 569 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 4: There's no box to tick saying date, you know, achievement 570 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 4: unlocked or whatever, you get a gold star. 571 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 5: It's not a thing. 572 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: They get something if you either paid for something or 573 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: if you saw an ad, which just means you're going 574 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 2: through different screens. 575 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 4: On the social media platform, that's what it's just a 576 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 4: little more insular and a little more like not open 577 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 4: to the public. And again, on Instagram, you can have 578 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 4: a private profile, so there are ways of doing that 579 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 4: as well. But let's make no mistake, these apps are 580 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 4: social media platforms. They're just of a different flavor. 581 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 3: I appreciate that point. I'd also like to give if 582 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 3: we could take our hats off. We're an audio show, 583 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 3: so everybody imagine us taking our hats off. In commemoration 584 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 3: of all our friends, our bros, our sisses, our loved 585 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 3: ones who thought Tender would solve their problems. I want 586 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 3: to give a special shout out to the multiple friends 587 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 3: of mine who got super into online dating. And I'll 588 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 3: give an anonymous shout out here. One person described it 589 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: to me as an actor in the Atlanta area as 590 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 3: an unending series auditions, and sometimes you end up asking yourself, 591 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: why am I at this audition for a part? I 592 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 3: did not want to play dude? And that is a 593 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 3: pretty poetic summation of the dopamine casino. 594 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 4: I completely agree, and I did just I think I 595 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 4: just sort of glossed over it. But in that article 596 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 4: in The Guardian, there was another stat that said that 597 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 4: around fifty percent of users of these types of apps 598 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 4: that they polled have felt as though they were targeted 599 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 4: by some sort of scam. And I just wanted to 600 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 4: point out that I maybe mentioned this before. I was 601 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 4: on jury duty here in Atlanta a year or two ago, 602 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 4: and I didn't actually get picked, but I got to 603 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 4: the point of like selection where they kind of give 604 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 4: you a little bit of a rundown of the case, 605 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 4: and it became very clear that it was about a 606 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 4: robbery and kidnapping that took place when someone swiped on 607 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 4: a dating app and was targeted and robbed and you know, 608 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 4: taking advantage of and in pretty horrific ways. I did 609 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 4: not actually get to be part of the trial, but 610 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 4: I got enough of the information to realize that was 611 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 4: the case. And if i'm you know, in my limited 612 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 4: experience with this kind of stuff, ran across a case 613 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 4: like that, I'm sure there's a heck of a lot 614 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 4: more of. 615 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 3: Them, and we hope those people are okay. There are 616 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 3: so many other controversies we have yet to get to, 617 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 3: involving cases of assault, involving incredibly heinous things up to 618 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 3: and beyond murder. This does happen in this strange casino. 619 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 3: We'd like to give a special thanks again to the 620 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 3: fantastic work of the good folks at Land of the 621 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 3: Giants Dating Games Episode two in particular, that podcast dives 622 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: deep into the backstory of match groups, so please check 623 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 3: out their work for more information free wherever you find 624 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 3: your favorite shows. We're not we're not paid to co 625 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 3: sign this. We just think they did very good work. 626 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely shout out to Sanjeitta and Latschmi who hosted that. 627 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 5: Again. 628 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: We went through the entire season seven very very good. 629 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 3: And here at the very end of twenty twenty four 630 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 3: is the humans call it. Should you, like so many 631 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 3: other people on this planet, be looking for love online 632 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 3: or in person, We wish you the best, without reservation. 633 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 3: Please remember there is one honest god solution to the 634 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 3: idea of finding true love. Learn to trust and love yourself, 635 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 3: do your best to be the kind of person that 636 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 3: you one day could love. 637 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 2: And set boundaries. 638 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 3: It sounds a little hallmarky, but I think it's true, 639 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 3: you know, and that's. 640 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 5: Part of love. I don't man. Here we go. 641 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 3: It's a two parter, so find us you know. 642 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 5: Definitely agree with you, Ben and Matt as well. 643 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 4: Boundaries are very, very important, whether you're online dating or 644 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 4: dating IRL or. 645 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 5: Just even with your friends. 646 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 4: You know, It's it's something that I think cannot be 647 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 4: overstated how important teaching people as Ben, you taught me 648 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: this expression to how to treat you and not accept 649 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 4: anything less than what you deserve. 650 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 3: And this is the end of our two part series 651 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 3: on the Illuminati of online dating. We want to hear 652 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 3: your thoughts. We hope this finds you well amid grand adventure. 653 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 3: We hope that you are doing your best to be 654 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 3: the kind of person that you can love and to 655 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 3: set some boundaries. We have three ways you can contact 656 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 3: us on the internet via email, on telephone lines, and 657 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 3: then on just the regular onlines. We're on We're not 658 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 3: on Farmers only anymore. I had to had to pull 659 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 3: out at that where. 660 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 4: My farmers had for a beanie I'm wearing right now, 661 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 4: keeping my skull alarm. You can find us all over 662 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 4: the internet, sad at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we 663 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 4: exist on Facebook, where we have. 664 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 5: Our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, as well 665 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 5: as on. 666 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 4: X FKA, Twitter and YouTube where we have video content 667 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 4: for your perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok. 668 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 5: However, we are Conspiracy Stuff a show. 669 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three 670 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: three std WYTK. When you call in, give yourself a 671 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use 672 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. We highly recommend 673 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 2: you put that number in your phone as a contact 674 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 2: just in case it gives you a little ring back. 675 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 2: If you've got more to say than can fit in 676 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: a three minute message, why out instead send us a 677 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 2: good old fashioned email. 678 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 679 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void 680 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 3: writes back, we love it when you email us. Send 681 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 3: us more email, send us more weird joke, Send us 682 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 3: your experiences in the trenches of online dating, we got 683 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 3: your six, we got your back. We'll see out here 684 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 3: in the dark. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 685 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 686 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 687 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.