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Speaker 1: It really felt like the cryptocurrency era for comedy writers.

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Speaker 2: There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: As a production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, I'm Bridget Todd,

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Speaker 3: and this is there are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: I spend a lot of time thinking about the Internet,

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Speaker 3: but also a lot of time thinking about celebrity, and

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Speaker 3: I don't think the two are unrelated, because today being

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Speaker 3: online is just part of being famous. How a celebrity

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Speaker 3: show us up online can tell us just as much

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Speaker 3: about Internet culture as it does about them. And in

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Speaker 3: the early twenty tens, the Internet rewrote the rules of fame.

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Speaker 3: A strong online voice, funny, rab relatable could turn tweets

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Speaker 3: into real book deals, viral posts into publishing contracts, and

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Speaker 3: Internet cloud into real cultural ca It was a moment

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Speaker 3: where being extremely online could genuinely change your life. Today,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking to Claire Parker and Ashley Hamilton, the host

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Speaker 3: of my favorite podcast, Celebrity Memoir book Club, about how

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Speaker 3: that moment shaped modern celebrity and what the memoirs left

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Speaker 3: behind can teach us about Internet culture, platform fame, and

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Speaker 3: the stories we choose to tell. So what is it

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Speaker 3: about celebrity memoirs that made you want to dive into

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Speaker 3: them for a living.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest is that we didn't have a comedic living,

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Speaker 1: as we were both at the time working day job

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Speaker 1: is trying to be stand up comedians.

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Speaker 4: And actually it was our third.

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Speaker 1: Podcast, and we kind of figured out that in order

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Speaker 1: to like have a niche on the internet, if you

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Speaker 1: haven't done The Bachelor, you can't just be two people talking.

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Speaker 4: And we were like, we want to talk about pop culture.

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Speaker 4: We had also done a Brittey.

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Speaker 1: Spears podcast and felt really grossed out by like what

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Speaker 1: had happened to her. It was in the beginnings of

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Speaker 1: the Free Brittany era, so nobody really knew what was

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Speaker 1: going on yet, if the rumors were true or not.

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Speaker 1: But we were like, whatever that, whatever it is, is true,

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Speaker 1: we do not want to be part of a group

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Speaker 1: of people who talk about celebrities in a way that

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Speaker 1: drives them to potentially being like fully trapped by their

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Speaker 1: dad in like a mental legal contract.

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Speaker 4: So we were like, Okay, how do you make fun

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Speaker 4: of a celebrity in their own words?

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Speaker 1: And then Maria Carrey and Jessica Simpsons were coming out

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Speaker 1: with memoirs around the same time, and we're like done.

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Speaker 1: They're literally whenever somebody goes, why is this even your business?

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Speaker 1: I go, they sold it to us in a book,

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Speaker 1: And this is actually literally my full time job. So

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Speaker 1: it's everybody's business. This is an economy of sorts.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like it's easy to sort of discount

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Speaker 3: celebrity books as fluff meaningless. But something I really learned

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Speaker 3: from listening to the podcast is that even bad celebrity

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Speaker 3: books do tell us something about the world that we

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Speaker 3: live in. What do you think that celebrity memoirs tell

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Speaker 3: us about the time or the culture that they were

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Speaker 3: produced in.

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Speaker 5: I think the pop culture, and like celebrity culture in

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Speaker 5: general is dismissed as like just frivolous nonsense, even though

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Speaker 5: it is like one of the more popular topics of

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Speaker 5: conversation across us, like all people. And so the way

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Speaker 5: that you can get a gauge on society from how

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Speaker 5: they talk about like moments in pop culture, like you

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Speaker 5: can see like the swing towards you know, child wife,

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Speaker 5: like the diminishing of women's rights like in the Amber

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Speaker 5: heard Johnny Depp case, Like there are so many things

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Speaker 5: that you can watch it happen in the way people

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Speaker 5: talk about women in pop culture and people in like

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Speaker 5: the celebrity sphere, and I think that the books are

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Speaker 5: such an interesting look at all of it, because I

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Speaker 5: think it's so interesting to look at the way people

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Speaker 5: present themselves in that space and like whether or not

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Speaker 5: they acknowledge the way that like they contribute to like

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Speaker 5: the way people look at the world, and I think

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Speaker 5: the way that they like don't mention certain things, or

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Speaker 5: the way they think things come up completely normal is

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Speaker 5: such a like fascinating look at our society. And then again,

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Speaker 5: the way that people will like let them get away

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Speaker 5: with it based on how generally likable someone is is

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Speaker 5: so fascinating.

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Speaker 4: I also think when you read these memoirs and get

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Speaker 4: the whole story versus when you're living through it and

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Speaker 4: seeing the headlines, it helps you remember that there is

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Speaker 4: a cohesive story going on. And I mean, in this

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Speaker 4: world of clickbait hot moments, you have to constantly fight

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Speaker 4: yourself to not just like take the headline and run

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Speaker 4: with it, but try to understand the larger narrative at play.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the amount of times Like a.

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Speaker 1: Woman has been absolutely demolished by the public because of

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Speaker 1: a bad night out and then you look at what

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Speaker 1: was happening in her life and she's like, well, my

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Speaker 1: dad just died and my husband just divorced me, and

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Speaker 1: I was postpartum and I was being forced to work,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, okay, So she was like going through it.

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Speaker 3: Women, really going through it. Memoirs are one of my

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Speaker 3: favorites of the genre. For instance, the tech book everyone

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Speaker 3: was talking about this year, Careless People, is basically a

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Speaker 3: woman going through some stuff memoir. Even if you haven't

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Speaker 3: read Careless People, the memoir by Sarah Wynn Williams, former

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Speaker 3: director of public policy at Facebook, you've probably seen the headlines,

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Speaker 3: and wow, were they scandalous stories about Facebook's Cheryl Samberg

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Speaker 3: buying her female staff lingerie and even sharing beds with

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Speaker 3: them on work trips. But those viral moments, as wild

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Speaker 3: as they are, overshadowed stories that were much more disturbing,

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Speaker 3: like Win William's first hand account of Facebook's complicity in

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Speaker 3: global harm, including the company's admitted role in the genocide

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Speaker 3: of the Rohinga people in Myanmar.

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Speaker 4: We just read the Facebook book Careless People.

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Speaker 6: That memoir is less celebrity but more like Facebook is

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Speaker 6: a celebrity, smart Zuckerberg is a celebrity, but it's so

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Speaker 6: interesting even the way memoirs are covered, where the headline

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Speaker 6: will be.

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Speaker 4: I think the headline with that Careless People article is like.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Samberg bought lingerie for her assistant and listen.

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Speaker 4: Not great, But when you read the book, what Facebook

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Speaker 4: was doing and is doing was so much more horrific.

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Speaker 1: She describes essentially watching over the real Hengey genocide andyen

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Speaker 1: mar ten years ago as it was being incited by

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Speaker 1: Facebook posts that she couldn't get anyone on the inside

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Speaker 1: of Facebook to take down that they kept saying, this

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Speaker 1: isn't hate speech, this isn't hate speech, while like literally

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Speaker 1: ten thousand people were being slaughtered in the street and

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Speaker 1: she was like, we need to take this down to

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Speaker 1: prevent more deaths than she couldn't get it done. And

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Speaker 1: the idea that like, I'm sorry, it's bad to buy

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Speaker 1: your assistant lungrite, it's worse to incite genocide.

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Speaker 4: And the fact that.

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Speaker 1: The media coverage of that book seems to be so sexy,

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Speaker 1: fun scandalous.

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Speaker 4: I think that that's like how a lot of media is.

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Speaker 4: And even if.

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Speaker 1: There are I think there are our journals is doing

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Speaker 1: good work, but what goes viral, what comes to you

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Speaker 1: have to seek out the whole story.

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Speaker 4: And this is like a good, maybe lighter way to

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Speaker 4: remember that lesson.

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Speaker 2: That's such a.

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Speaker 3: Good example, and I'm I'm in the middle of that

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Speaker 3: book myself. Oh my god, Sorry, no, I know about that,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I am intrigued by the fact that

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Speaker 3: it's a right, like it could have easily been a

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Speaker 3: like Kara Swisher style kind of hard hitting nonfiction book,

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Speaker 3: but the fact that it's a memoir. It really is

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Speaker 3: about like how it felt from her perspective, and I

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Speaker 3: think it just comes at it in such a different,

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Speaker 3: an interesting and different angle of like this is what

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Speaker 3: you remember from this experience of being at Facebook and

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Speaker 3: all the ways that fucked you up, and not necessarily

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Speaker 3: like here's the hard hitting facts of like well yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it really allows you to really, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: see her perspective and live in that experience a lot more.

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Speaker 5: Another thing that I think is so like why I

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Speaker 5: like the memoir genre so much is because of that,

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Speaker 5: because I think there are so many things like as

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Speaker 5: a society, especially with the constant onslought of news, I

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Speaker 5: feel like we see this a lot with reality TV

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Speaker 5: and celebrity in general, the way that people like believe

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Speaker 5: in such a control.

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Speaker 7: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: But they're like everyone like, this is how I would

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Speaker 5: have reacted to this thing. Now that I'm reading the

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Speaker 5: full picture, so like, that's how you should have reacted

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Speaker 5: to it.

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Speaker 7: And I think reading.

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Speaker 5: Someone's thought process as it was happening instead of just

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Speaker 5: the facts like allows you to be like, oh, they're

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Speaker 5: a person reacting with humanity, not a sim reacting with

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Speaker 5: like control.

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Speaker 7: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, And it's easy.

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's something about our culture where

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Speaker 3: that's easy to forget, where when someone is talking about

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Speaker 3: it experience, it's so easy to say like, well, this

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Speaker 3: is what I would have done her. That's the way

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Speaker 3: that she responded doesn't make sense because of XYZ, Like

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Speaker 3: it just gives us such a look into what they

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Speaker 3: were actually feeling and experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think right now we're in this weird era

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Speaker 1: of everyone thinks there's this pr overlord that's like pulling

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Speaker 1: the strings. I mean, even we had a journalist at

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Speaker 1: us like, well, it's very clear that you're promoted and

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Speaker 1: sponsored by diet Coke because you have diet cokes in

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Speaker 1: the videos, do you make a lot like I was

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Speaker 1: laughing as a journalist suggested this, and we were just

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Speaker 1: like no, we just record for like three straight hours,

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Speaker 1: so sometimes we need caffeine.

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Speaker 4: And that's as deep as that is.

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Speaker 1: We just sincerely are drinking diet cokes like most people

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Speaker 1: on Earth.

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Speaker 5: Very nice beverage when you're sitting at a table chatting

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Speaker 5: every people.

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Speaker 1: Really the tailor swiftification and like the conspiracy theories, I

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Speaker 1: think we're in this era right now of feeling like

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Speaker 1: everybody's tricking you and everything's advertising and everything is.

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Speaker 7: Everything's describable too.

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Speaker 5: I think it also falls in with the therapy speak

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Speaker 5: and the way everything can be diagnosed. Everything has like

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Speaker 5: nothing is ambiguous. Everything has a cause and effect. Like

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Speaker 5: I don't like Huda crashing out on Love Island is

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Speaker 5: because she's an abuser, and you're like, right, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I just think she's a single mom who's tired.

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Speaker 5: She might be like sleep deprived in a very stressful

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Speaker 5: fishbole situation, the.

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Speaker 3: Way that if I were in her shoes, I would

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Speaker 3: immediately crash out immediately, like like lose my shit, and

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Speaker 3: it's like yeah, maybe she's just in a weird situation

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Speaker 3: for the first time and she's having a big reaction

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Speaker 3: to that. It doesn't necessarily mean like there's some dark

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Speaker 3: underbelly of a thing's happening.

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Speaker 5: Deeply manipulative language. I'm like, I don't she's not Jax Taylor.

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Speaker 4: Listen, why can't she have a crash out? But Taylor

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Speaker 4: Swift gets to write the Tortured Poet's Department.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who's allowed in our society to crash out

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Speaker 1: over a situationship?

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Speaker 4: I'd like to review.

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Speaker 5: Yes, the way people can like pin it on these

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Speaker 5: like very specific trigger words, it like really strips the

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Speaker 5: humanity out of everything. And so like getting the full

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Speaker 5: story all the time is nice.

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Speaker 7: I like knowing what happened.

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Speaker 8: Let's take a quick break at her back.

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Speaker 3: Remember the twenty tens ubers were cheap, Barack Obama was

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Speaker 3: the president. In a lot of ways, it was a simpler,

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Speaker 3: happier time, and the internet was really different too.

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Speaker 2: Back then, twenty thousand follows that a.

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Speaker 3: Viral tweet could get you a book deal, and being

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Speaker 3: Internet funny was a viable career plan. Things feel very

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Speaker 3: different today, but I'm still so fascinated by that era

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Speaker 3: and the cultural scaffolding it left us with. So the

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Speaker 3: reason I reached out to the both of you was

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Speaker 3: I was listening to your episode on Kelly Oxford's book

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Speaker 3: Everything Is Perfect when You're a Liar, published in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know who Kelly Oxford is, She's a

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Speaker 2: writer who.

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Speaker 3: Was one of the first people who really got famous

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Speaker 3: and blew up on the early days of Twitter for

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Speaker 3: her snarky, relatable tweets, and celebrities loved her on Twitter.

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Speaker 3: She used that attention on Twitter to parlay that into

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Speaker 3: a book deal for this book. It became a New

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Speaker 3: York Times bestseller, and she parlayed that into a real

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Speaker 3: Hollywood writing career. And I was kind of stunned by

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Speaker 3: that trajectory and how commonplace it was back on the

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Speaker 3: early days of social media, and how that trajectory seems

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Speaker 3: basically impossible today in twenty twenty five, and the way

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Speaker 3: that you all described this time and culture that I

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Speaker 3: had almost would have forgotten about the twenty tens. A

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Speaker 3: mustache on your finger, Yes, You're gonna mustache on your finger,

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Speaker 3: Katie Perry is like the height of culture. You know,

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Speaker 3: who's the girl from New Girls, Zoey Deschanel is like

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Speaker 3: what every kind of quirky girl wants to be. Tina

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Speaker 3: Fey is the funniest woman on the planet. Christy Tagan

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Speaker 3: would tweet something and then there'd be one hundred headlines

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Speaker 3: like Chrissy Tigan claps back on the haters on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: On BuzzFeed.

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Speaker 4: You know I have BuzzFeed got alone.

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Speaker 2: What do you all remember about this time online?

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Speaker 5: I guess I remember lists, obviously Chrissy Tegan's twelve best clapbacks,

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, like Lehanna's twelve best reactions.

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Speaker 1: I wonder this, like I'm thinking about We also read

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Speaker 1: inn A Kendrick's book that came out around that era,

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Speaker 1: which was based on her successful Twitter, and it's so

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Speaker 1: funny to go back, like what took a successful Twitter

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Speaker 1: back then? Was like thirty five thousand followers? And I

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Speaker 1: was like, now that's scratching the surface. You couldn't get

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Speaker 1: a ca you couldn't get a coffee for thirty five

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Speaker 1: thousand Twitter followers. But I think we were in this

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Speaker 1: It's like era of like Obama era America, where the

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Speaker 1: VC companies were funding.

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Speaker 7: All of our lives.

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Speaker 4: I hear people talk about that a lot like the

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Speaker 4: class past uber seemless.

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Speaker 1: Everything was relatively like all these new apps made things

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Speaker 1: efficient and affordable, and we weren't really aware of the

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Speaker 1: hell that was coming. Airbnb was new. It felt like

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Speaker 1: America might be going in a good direction. O evey

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Speaker 1: where we about to be slept in the face by that.

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Speaker 4: But I think there was this idea that it was

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Speaker 4: okay to be ironic.

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Speaker 1: I think there was a height of irony at that

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Speaker 1: point because people felt that things were going good, so

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Speaker 1: it was okay to be like tweet and ironic and

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Speaker 1: like this kind of like toothless snarkiness where it was

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Speaker 1: very watered down.

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Speaker 4: Larry David, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: It was like it was like the Christian girl version

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Speaker 1: of a Jewish man comedy.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I also feel I wonder if there is something

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Speaker 5: to be said about the way that it was like

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Speaker 5: the rise of social media crossed with still the dominance

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Speaker 5: of mainstream media. Like so as clar was saying, like

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Speaker 5: you didn't actually have to have that many followers, but

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Speaker 5: like people were on social media kind of making a

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Speaker 5: name for themselves, but those names were defined by mainstream

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Speaker 5: media picking who was the main ones.

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Speaker 7: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Like absolutely, people wouldn't get Twitter followers, but if you

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Speaker 5: were looking for new people to follow on Twitter, you'd

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Speaker 5: go to BuzzFeed and be like, well, who did they

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Speaker 5: pick as like the eight funniest people on Twitter? And

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Speaker 5: like they the mainstream media was still deciding who within

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Speaker 5: social media was like the top choices and like the

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Speaker 5: funniest people in the world.

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Speaker 7: And those accounts then became TV shows.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like there was a real currency there because as

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Speaker 3: you all stay in that episode, you could have twenty

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Speaker 3: thousand followers and get retweeted by Lena donah or Patton Oswald,

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Speaker 3: and then you might have an editor or somebody in

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Speaker 3: your DMS and that could translate to an actual paid

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Speaker 3: writing gig or like a staff position on a late

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Speaker 3: night show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I really feel it the cryptocurrency era for comedy writers,

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Speaker 1: and that like the bubbles that were bursting.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Like the amount of attention and.

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Speaker 1: Overall deals that were inked for people that had quite

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Speaker 1: literally only come up with fourteen hundred characters of comedy,

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Speaker 1: Like what do.

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Speaker 4: You think you had ten hit tweets?

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Speaker 1: That was truly ten sentences and people were like, could

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Speaker 1: you do a full length film?

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Speaker 4: And it's like maybe, but this would not let you

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Speaker 4: know in any direction.

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Speaker 5: Really, I mean, I need someone who was like this

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Speaker 5: nineteen year old Twitter prodigy who was viewed as like

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Speaker 5: the next it girl of LA And I don't even

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Speaker 5: want to say her name because it fell off so hard,

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Speaker 5: Like I think she's like a wedding photographer now.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 5: And then the other thing is that it was in

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Speaker 5: an era of the Internet where like you still only

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Speaker 5: knew what people were telling you about themselves.

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Speaker 3: One thing about that era of Twitter, it looked like

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Speaker 3: people just got randomly chosen by the algorithmic gods to

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Speaker 3: go from Internet funny to published author. Joke accounts with

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Speaker 3: one running bit became book deals with titles like shit

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Speaker 3: my dad says. Take Charlie McDowell in the twenty tens,

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Speaker 3: he was just a writer in La getting increasingly annoyed

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Speaker 3: by his loud upstairs neighbors. Instead of just leaving a note,

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Speaker 3: he started tweeting about it from a new account, Deer

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Speaker 3: Girls Above Me, and it blew up. Time Magazine ranked

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Speaker 3: at one of the top one hundred and forty Twitter

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Speaker 3: accounts of twenty twelve that led to a book deal,

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Speaker 3: and that success helped launch his career as a film director.

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Speaker 3: A real Twitter to Hollywood Cinderella story, right, Well not exactly,

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Speaker 3: because what you didn't see on Twitter was how deeply

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Speaker 3: connected Charlie already was to Hollywood. So watching on the outside,

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Speaker 3: it probably felt like anybody could have made it date online.

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Speaker 3: It definitely helps if your stepdad is Ted Danson. Naturally, Ashley,

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Speaker 3: who was also a comedian, has thoughts about that.

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Speaker 5: There was still like a Nepo baby of it all.

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Speaker 5: There was still some shit where on, like some people

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Speaker 5: were heavily connected, like Charlie McDowell.

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Speaker 4: Of Dear Girls above me, Like that was like a low.

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Speaker 1: Key he's you know those people that you're like, I

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Speaker 1: talk about this person way more than a lot of

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Speaker 1: people talk about that first, Like he doesn't come up

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Speaker 1: a lot, but compared to how often other people are

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Speaker 1: bringing him.

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Speaker 4: This is Ashley's truly her Roman empire.

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Speaker 5: This is my Roman empire, because I think at the

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Speaker 5: time I remember people finding it as like an organic account.

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Speaker 5: I remember this account and like being told about how

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Speaker 5: funny this random guy who lives underneath these two girls is.

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Speaker 7: And now you read it and you're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 7: this is so sexist.

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Speaker 5: And also he is like his parents are actors, but

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Speaker 5: like they're both successful and you would recognize them from things.

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Speaker 5: And now he's married to Lily Collins and you're like,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, his Twitter didn't become a.

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Speaker 7: Book because he's funny.

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Speaker 1: Dude.

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Speaker 4: You were living in such a liberal ideal. I like

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Speaker 4: it was just thinking about do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: I feel like I'm thinking about like.

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Speaker 1: Race relations in thirty Rock and the way that it was,

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Speaker 1: so there was such an idea of like, well, we

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Speaker 1: beat it, we beat racism in this country. And then

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Speaker 1: also with the beauty singiers, something about Beyonce's I woke

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Speaker 1: up like this. I remember there was like this feminist

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Speaker 1: photo shit in my college where you could show up

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Speaker 1: with makeup if you like, however you feel best, and

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Speaker 1: that would be your I woke up like this, Like

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Speaker 1: it was pre body positivity, but at a time where

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Speaker 1: the most beautiful, skinniest woman you've ever seen would kind of.

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Speaker 4: Tossle her hair and be, yeah, I don't even care,

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Speaker 4: and we took that. We were just like, yeah, she's

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Speaker 4: so quirky.

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Speaker 7: She wears sweat pands.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of what you say in the about

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Speaker 3: the Kelly Oxford book that like the funniest thing a

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Speaker 3: woman could be is like obsessed with sandwiches and bacon,

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Speaker 3: but also thin.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was this idea of like we were opening

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Speaker 1: the confines of what it meant to be a woman

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Speaker 1: and be funny.

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Speaker 4: But with that, but you still better play the part,

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Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? And Jennifer Lawrence the belching.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, Jennifer Lawrence, I mean I was, I would

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Speaker 3: She hasn't been a memoir, but I would love to

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Speaker 3: have for you all to do a deep dive under her,

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Speaker 3: because I mean, it was like we have a word

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Speaker 3: for it now, pick me. But I do think that

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Speaker 3: you had to be in this walk this very specific

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Speaker 3: line as like a funny, quirky woman in the public eye.

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Speaker 5: I would argue that this entire era came crashing down

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Speaker 5: when Jennifer Lawrence fell for the second time. I think

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Speaker 5: everyone that moment, the moment she hit the ground again,

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Speaker 5: Everyone's side of this is this is enough.

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Speaker 1: Well, something that I think is very small with the

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Speaker 1: Pickney era that I think is true is because I

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Speaker 1: feel like there was this like liberal idealism of like

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Speaker 1: we're all equal and Hillary Clinton right, like she's something,

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Speaker 1: she's something to write home about. But I think there

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Speaker 1: was this idea that women could be more honest and real.

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Speaker 1: But when you think about who was picking, it was

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Speaker 1: still the mainstream media. And so Twitter gave us this

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Speaker 1: illusion of getting to know people in a more sincere,

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Speaker 1: honest way, but at the end of the day, you

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Speaker 1: had to be on the Stephen Colbert should like, you

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Speaker 1: had to be picked by the man that owns NBC,

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Speaker 1: Whereas today I do think there is there are fewer

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Speaker 1: gatekeepers in terms of like you can create an online community.

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Speaker 1: Obviously still a long way to go, but I do

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Speaker 1: think right now there are non mainstream ways to make

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Speaker 1: a living. I'd say, mean Ashley do one of them

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Speaker 1: with like Patreon and stuff, and I think with direct

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Speaker 1: like support from followers and stuff, that does allow you

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Speaker 1: to carve out a piece of the Internet, whereas back

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Speaker 1: then you the internet is a tool to launch into

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Speaker 1: the very traditional forms of media.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I almost wonder if some of the books

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Speaker 3: that you that you talk about kind of reveal the

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Speaker 3: fallacy of what you know. Not everybody who can make

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Speaker 3: a funny quip on Twitter in one hundred and forty

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Speaker 3: characters should be expanding upon that and on one hundred.

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Speaker 2: And forty page memoir. And when you read some of

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Speaker 2: these memoirs.

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Speaker 3: They just seem so dated and they just don't feel substantive.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if that reveals the fallacy of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: if you are funny on Twitter, that needs to be

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Speaker 3: connected to a kind of mainstream success.

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Speaker 2: Which is publishing a comedy memoir.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think what happens is when you're funny for Twitter,

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00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 1: you learn to write a very certain style. It's like

444
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: you're being funny for King of Queens, you know what

445
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean. And then what happens is everybody's fitting into

446
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: this one mold of how to be funny in these

447
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: quippy little ways, and they don't realize how dated it

448
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 1: is. It's like, it's funny to think of a personality type

449
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: or a comedy style as like very day, but you

450
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: read it back now and it's so millennial. Cringe, and

451
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: they're already Yeah, they're all like.

452
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 7: I don't want to waite for in line for cop

453
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 7: like lotes.

454
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 8: I don't know.

455
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 7: I'm like another thing that I think is so interesting.

456
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 5: What you were just saying about the way that like

457
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 5: it's still being chosen by the president of NBC is

458
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 5: that a lot of the people who came out of

459
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 5: this era are still very attractive, mostly white people, even

460
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 5: the ones that are strictly writers.

461
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 7: Kelly Oxford never really.

462
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 5: Like made a play for being in front of the camera,

463
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 5: but she is still a very attractive white woman.

464
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 7: The girl that I know was like a very cute

465
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 7: white woman.

466
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 5: Like most of these people were still just very exactly

467
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 5: what was already getting picked.

468
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 7: But like maybe sometimes a girl this time, like Anna Kendrick.

469
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 5: Blowing up on Twitter, You're like, yeah, I don't know's

470
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 5: she's already a famous actress.

471
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 7: Fucking Charlie McDowell.

472
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 4: Has she said on this podcast to Charlie mcdowe.

473
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: Parents are the mom is Mary Steinberg, who is she's

474
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: the woman in all the Will Ferrell movies, you know,

475
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: I hotly yes, oh my god.

476
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 7: And then the dad is Malcolm McDowell.

477
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 3: Okay, So two very like wasn't just didn't just fall

478
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 3: into you know, writing a book and publishing a book

479
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: because they were good on Twitter. It would be helpful

480
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: to know how deeply connected this person is and how

481
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: that was connected.

482
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: To their rise.

483
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

484
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: And then by the way, Mary Steinberg right now is

485
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: married to Ted Danson and they have been for like

486
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: thirty years.

487
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 2: Acshally, what is it.

488
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: About this person that you that like you can't you

489
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: can't sort of can't get over, like why are you?

490
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 2: How did their hooks get in you?

491
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 5: I feel like, Okay, So my mom was on Twitter

492
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 5: a lot, and I feel like Kelly Oxford and Charlie

493
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 5: McDowell were two of her favorite Twitter accounts, and she like,

494
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 5: and this was when I was living in LA and

495
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 5: like starting comedy, and so I knew some people in

496
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: the Twitter, like some people who were big on Twitter,

497
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 5: and you'd meet them and be.

498
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 4: Like, holy shit, that person's like Twitter famous.

499
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 5: And I never met him, but I remember being so

500
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: specifically like whatever he's doing is working.

501
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 7: And I have to figure that out.

502
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 5: And then I like kind of forgot about him, but

503
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 5: he really like imprinted on me in like twenty fourteen.

504
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 5: And then when we did the Lily Collins book a

505
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 5: couple of years ago, and I like googled her and

506
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 5: she's recently married to Charlie McDowell, I was like, why

507
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 5: does that name ring a Bell, and when I realized

508
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 5: who it was and who his parents were, I feel

509
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 5: like I went insane.

510
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: So I also want to say his Twitter at the

511
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: time was like deer girls upstairs?

512
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: Right?

513
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 4: Was that what it was called? Dear Girls above Me?

514
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: Deer Girls above me?

515
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 1: And the promise of the Twitter account because there used

516
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: to be all these real uster accounts that have like

517
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: one shtick shit my dad says. My dad says things

518
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: white people like yeaffee MPR.

519
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 4: That was like a book at urban outfitters you can buy.

520
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that was the book.

521
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: But his was essentially just making fun of these two

522
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: fictional girls who quote unquote lived above him that were

523
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: obviously just like two white pre Instagram models Instagram models.

524
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: And when you look back, it was just like a

525
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: mean spirited thing, like making fun of It's very much

526
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: like you're inventing someone online to be mad about, Like

527
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: you just made up these two girls and then called

528
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: them stupid every day, and it is like when you

529
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: look back, like, fuck you try being funny.

530
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: I feel like I remember it as such a like

531
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 5: cultural touchstone. And then when we remembered it via the

532
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 5: Lily Collins memoir, and I went back and I looked

533
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 5: at the archive of tweets, I was like, wait, these

534
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 5: girls never existed. You barely even exist and you were

535
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 5: just like the son of actors. Like this is crazy

536
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 5: that this was such an important like aspiration, and I.

537
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: Guess watching it unfold, you know that era on Twitter,

538
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: it kind of beas the impression that anybody could ask

539
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: twenty thousand followers and luck into this kind of real

540
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: career success publishing a book.

541
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: But then when you actually dig into it, it's like, well,

542
00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: probably not.

543
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: Anybody probably did take more than you know, the followers

544
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: and the quips or whatever.

545
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I yes, exactly, there's like a real I think

546
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: actually it was spot on when she says this before

547
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: people actually found out who you really were.

548
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 8: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

549
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: I listened to a lot of celebrity memoir book Club,

550
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: like almost every episode, so I've heard Ashley and Claire

551
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 3: break down hundreds of celebrity memoirs, and let's be real,

552
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: some of them do not age well.

553
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: There are books that read less like life.

554
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 3: Stories and more like a string of casual racism dressed

555
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: up as insight, the kind of stuff that screams of

556
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 3: an era and not in a good way. So memoirs,

557
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 3: especially of this era, what do you think separates the

558
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 3: ones that just sound so dated from the ones that

559
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: like have staying power or like don't really seem as

560
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: data or that you can really connect with even reading

561
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 3: them years later.

562
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it has to be like a

563
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 4: sincere story you want to tell, because I mean, human

564
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: stories have been true since the dawn of time.

565
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: Like you've read the Odyssey and you can connect to

566
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: it because if like there've only been so many human

567
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: experiences and emotions and I can.

568
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 7: Attach it to that.

569
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 5: Good example is like I you saw the picture of

570
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 5: Dorian Gray on Broadway, so I reread it and there

571
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 5: was so much in it that I was like, oh

572
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 5: my god, this is about like influencers.

573
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 7: And so I think that then you take these books.

574
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 5: That came from like Twitter Virility specifically, which in the

575
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: time had a very specific like tone of snarkiness. Like

576
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 5: Claire said, it was just like dripping in snark, and

577
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 5: then you take this like pseudo vulnerability that's actually just

578
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 5: snarkiness and turn that into a book like there is

579
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 5: nothing that's going to stick.

580
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I also think it really to do with have vulnerable

581
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: you'll be because that Twitter verrality from twenty fourteen specifically

582
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: was very much lighthearted punching down. I wouldn't say anybody

583
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: was being out and out cruel, but there is this

584
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: is these girls above me are dumb Chrissy Tigan's calling

585
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: some poor teen mama slut. Like there is a lot

586
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: of punching down happening where you got to just be

587
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: like what I'm just saying it, and something that happens

588
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: is top Like that kind of humor gets dated because

589
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: who in society is allowed to be the butt of

590
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: a joke changes, And I think a good example is

591
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: Tina Fay when you look back at like how she

592
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: deals with like racial jokes and thirty rock the joke

593
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: she makes like with Tracy Morgan versus Jenni Roni being

594
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: like what's harder black man, white woman? Those are done,

595
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I feel like with an awareness, whereas Asian people are

596
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: like just straight up a punchline, like whether or not

597
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: you find her jokes funny, Like you could be like, oh,

598
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: but like there's clearly the joke is racism, whereas like

599
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: the Asian jokes are racist.

600
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

601
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: Here's Tina fey on Jimmy Fallon's Late night show back

602
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, Little one.

603
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: Tune off didn't talk for a long time and now

604
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: finally is talking a lot and big, long sentences, so

605
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: cute and great, and it's she has a very specific

606
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: way of talking. I realized she kind of sounds like

607
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: a prostitute and like.

608
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 7: A Vietnam movie. She seemed like a Polish She's like, no,

609
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 7: you know, give me cookie.

610
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 8: I'll go with you.

611
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: You've changed my saber.

612
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: Then ten years later she's like, you know, allowed to

613
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: be racist Asian people openly anymore?

614
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: And her book looks insane.

615
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

616
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 3: In Kelly Oxford's memoir, she describes seeing someone on the

617
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: street and specifically notes that person is Chinese. And it's

618
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: clearly sort of meant to be the joke because, as

619
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: you say in the episode about the book, this is

620
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: when the funniest thing a person could be was an ethnicity.

621
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 8: It really is.

622
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, just naming races is like a really funny thing

623
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: to do, and it's it's just dated, and I think so,

624
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: And that's all because those stories aren't really vulnerable on

625
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: as stories.

626
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 7: They're like naming races, Yeah, you're.

627
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: Trying to you're trying to be funny and being vulnerable

628
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: last forever and being funny.

629
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: It's crazy how quickly that becomes outdated.

630
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 7: Especially edgy humor. Like the only thing that you say

631
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 7: is falling down.

632
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 4: Jennifer Lawrence was actually exactly right.

633
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 7: She was right to fall down.

634
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: She was wrong to far on that sacred rock.

635
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 2: Well, as we moved.

636
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 3: Away from like the twenty tens Twitter millennial culture, how

637
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: do you see that impacting the next generation or the

638
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: current generation of celebrity memoirs that are going to be

639
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: coming out.

640
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 5: It'll be interesting because I think things already moved so

641
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 5: much faster that I wonder how much of this is

642
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 5: like being turned into a book before its time. Like

643
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 5: I wonder what's going you know what I mean? Because

644
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 5: like Twitter was writing and writing to a book. Deal

645
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 5: feels like a traject three where at like TikTok to.

646
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: Book.

647
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 5: I think some people are doing it, but like even

648
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 5: there they know there needs to be a very specific

649
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 5: angle that isn't necessarily like because even TikTok, we've seen

650
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 5: the exact same.

651
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: What do you call it?

652
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 5: Like life cycle of Twitter, where like first people are

653
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 5: just doing these like snarky little characters, and then people

654
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: actually like within months, they'll be like that TikTok trend

655
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 5: from a couple months ago was actually really fucked up,

656
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

657
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 7: And so there's a lot more it's like faster turnaround

658
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 7: with what is.

659
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 5: Like.

660
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 4: So I think right now.

661
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: There's anybody who has any followers online can get myired

662
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: and scandal or can get canceled, can get like you

663
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like there's so many more people

664
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: in the public eye because the public eye is all

665
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: of us now, Like there's no more gatekeeping of the tabloids.

666
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: It's like anyone that you follow, you're interested in.

667
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: And I think a lot more people will want to

668
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: set the record straight, Like a lot of people feel

669
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: like they have a lot more things to go back

670
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: and be like, by the way, you were all dead

671
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: wrong about me, because now it's just thirty five people

672
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: commenting something, but you're like, I have to set the

673
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: record straight on this. And so I think a lot

674
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: more people are gonna feel compelled to be like I

675
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: have to tell you what was really going on once

676
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: the dust settles.

677
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think it's gonna be a lot more

678
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 5: about like explaining after the dust settles, and less about

679
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 5: turning the current stick into a book.

680
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 7: I think that'll be interesting.

681
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: So I have a couple of rapid buyer questions for you. First,

682
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: of all, worst celebrity.

683
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: Memoir that you've ever read, I mean in what way,

684
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: Like the most boring, the most delusional, the most fucked up.

685
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 3: I would say, the one that most did not need

686
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: to be a book, the most like, why why did

687
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: you write this?

688
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: Well, you know it's funny, I would say.

689
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: We were talking about like the new kind of memoir,

690
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: which is no longer the twitter funny memoir.

691
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 4: But let me explain myself. Memoir was Hilaria Baldwin's. We

692
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 4: just read and it is like eight chapters.

693
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: Directly speaking to the Daily Mail, and you're like, you

694
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: even know what you're talking about?

695
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 7: Lari.

696
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: She's like explaining herself up against situations that don't even

697
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: make sense, and you're like, none a thing is explained,

698
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: there's no overarching narrative, there's no like I was born

699
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: here and then this is how I got to where

700
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm at now. It's still like and here's something someone

701
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: said about me. Any here's why you can't possibly be true?

702
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 5: Like not even here's something someone said about me. She'll like,

703
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 5: she'll if because people say like she was faking her accent.

704
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 5: Instead of saying people said I was faking my accent

705
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 5: and that's not true. She'll go and do you know

706
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 5: something about accents?

707
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 7: And like that's how it starts.

708
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: And you're like, wait, what, Okay, it's so funny that

709
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: you mentioned this, because she's sort of my roman empire.

710
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever told this story in public before,

711
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: but everybody who knows me has heard.

712
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: This and exclusive. This is an exclusive. So I have

713
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: met her. I met her before the fallout.

714
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: I was working I don't want to give to muny

715
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: to details, but I was working on behind the scenes

716
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: on a podcast and she was one of the guests.

717
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: I this was one of those jobs I had that

718
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: felt very tenuous, so I was like, I need to

719
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: show up on my A game every single day. So

720
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: the host, understandably, was really particular about pronunciations of names.

721
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: So when we had a guest, I would listen to

722
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 3: audio the person saying their own name, write it out

723
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: phonetically to give to the host so that she felt

724
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: confident in saying this name.

725
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 4: So I mean we kind of need to hire you.

726
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's the time where I was like putting way

727
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: too much, like really over preparing for like it's just

728
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: a celebrity podcast, Like you really probably didn't need.

729
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: To take it that far.

730
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: So I listened to footage of her saying her own name.

731
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: Granted this footage was from several years earlier, kind of

732
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: before she blew up and got super famous, but the

733
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: way that my name is pronounced today is the way

734
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: my name is gonna be pronounced in ten years, so

735
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: I figure this is fine. She said her name Hailaria,

736
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 3: clearly an offshoot of.

737
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: The name Hillary. That is how she says it.

738
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: When I give this information to the host, the host

739
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: is like, Hilaria Baldwin, welcome, and she says, no, it's

740
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: e Laria Elaria, and the host.

741
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: Is like, she's cool about it.

742
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: But then after the fact she's like, you know, I

743
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: felt like an asshole that I mispronounced her a person

744
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: of colors name kind of wasn't great, and I was like,

745
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: oh shit, So I kind of took.

746
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: A little bit of a reaming out at my job

747
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: because of this. Then cut too when the whole thing

748
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: unfolds and I was just thinking this woman really lied.

749
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: She lied to me, and she lied in a way

750
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: that jeopardized my job.

751
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: As she's European color, she's lying about being European our

752
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: friends people, she's.

753
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 4: No better than a French person.

754
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 5: That's like the one in the defense I always have

755
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 5: of her fake acclent is that I'm like, I don't know,

756
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 5: white people do British accents all the time.

757
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 7: Being is also like a colonial.

758
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 5: Empire, so like they're not like, I don't know, I

759
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 5: feel like it's racist the way they're not. They're always like,

760
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 5: like you just the people like, it's not that same thing. However,

761
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 5: for her to get you in trouble is psychotic, for

762
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 5: her to like in the way she insists upon it,

763
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 5: I'm like, I mean, it's just.

764
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 7: Not true, Like you're just he say Hilaria.

765
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: Video footage of her saying, Hilaria, you like.

766
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: Get to change your name based on the vibes.

767
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: That's no, you don't.

768
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 7: You don't get to just like you need to just

769
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 7: go with whatever people are saying. If you've made it up,

770
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 7: if you've made it up yourself that day.

771
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: Is there a celebrity memoir that surprised you the most?

772
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 3: Like you thought it was gonna be one kind of reading,

773
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 3: it turned out to be another.

774
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 5: Minka Kelly is always I feel like one of our

775
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 5: go tos with that where we're always just like, I

776
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 5: don't know Leila Garrity from Friday Night Lights, what the

777
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 5: fuck is she talking about? And then you're like, Oh,

778
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 5: the most heartfelt story about like self discovery?

779
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 7: Amazing?

780
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

781
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 3: I would say for me, it's uh tory spelling, because

782
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: I never really gave Tory spelling much thought. But then

783
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 3: hearing you all really dive into the minutia of how

784
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: she shows up in the world is fascinating, And now

785
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, she's actually a very fascinating person.

786
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: She used to be studied in a lab she does.

787
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: It really does go to show money is and everything,

788
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: because what if your jad was Aaron Spelling and you came.

789
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 4: Out like it's weird to watch them and be like,

790
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: how do you have a worse life than me?

791
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: Yeah?

792
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: How could that much Kashmir be bad for you?

793
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it.

794
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: Here's our two memoirs that we would like if they

795
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: live in case. Katie Holmes and Nicholas Cage are listeners

796
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: of yours.

797
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: We should. I mean, if they are, please reach out.

798
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: We'd love to have you on the show.

799
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 4: No pressure, but we'd like you guys to write memoirs.

800
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 4: That's startry memoir.

801
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: Oh, Katie Holmes would be so good. Do you know

802
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: is she's still in a relationship with Jamie Fox.

803
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 4: No, I think they broke up.

804
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was before Emilio Blotto, right, she had that

805
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: she was making out with that restauranteur a couple of

806
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: years ago.

807
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: My friend is actually can I say something please? My

808
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: friend is about to.

809
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: Start working on a film that she's like, she wrote,

810
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: directed and is starring in. So I guess that little

811
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: Surrey Cruise is off to college and Katie's making her comeback.

812
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe she'll use this as the time to write

813
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: a book. Yeah, and then you all can talk about it.

814
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: Maybe she'll be a guest on your show. Yeah.

815
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe she'll tell us how to fucking tailor a

816
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 5: cardigan because she knows it and I don't.

817
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: There's an example of a woman with a lot of

818
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: cashmem who's happy.

819
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 4: So I guess it either way.

820
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 3: Where can folks listen to the podcast? Check out the

821
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 3: show you all we're doing, follow you all that good stuff.

822
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: We are on YouTube, Celebrity Memore, book Clubs, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

823
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 5: Amazon First well not more practice.

824
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 4: No, we are on YouTube. I just love that. We've

825
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 4: never been YouTube forward before and I love this new change.

826
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 5: I'm changing, I'm evolving, I'm trying to expand the brand.

827
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: I feel like YouTube is really where you got to

828
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: be these days. Oh that's what they keep telling us same.

829
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 2: This has been such a delight, Like you have no idea,

830
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: this like made my month. My partner came down and

831
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: was like, you're gonna talk to your favorite podcasters? Are

832
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: you excited?

833
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 3: And I was like, yes, I'm very excited.

834
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 2: And very nervous.

835
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 3: So thank you for doing that's I really really appreciate it,

836
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: and thank you for making the show.

837
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: It's just like has given me so much at so

838
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 2: many hours of delight.

839
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: It got me through the pandemic truly, like one of

840
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 3: my favorite podcasts around.

841
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 7: Thank you so much.

842
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it.

843
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 7: Thank you for having us. This was so fun.

844
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 4: This was so fun.

845
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

846
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: just want to say hi. You can reach us at

847
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: Hello at Tegody dot com. You can also find transcripts

848
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

849
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.

850
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative Jonathan Strickland

851
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 3: is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and

852
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

853
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

854
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

855
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

856
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: get your podcasts.

857
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: And will We have the will W