1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in history class from how

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:14,120
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

3
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm Kate Lambert and I'm Sarah Dowdy, and we're going

4
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,920
Speaker 1: to start off with a modified nursery rhyme. Here if

5
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,080
Speaker 1: you're ready? Are you ready? So I'm ready for it. Okay,

6
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,479
Speaker 1: Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother nineteen wax,

7
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,600
Speaker 1: and when she saw what she had done, she gave

8
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 1: her father jen. Wait, that's not much of a nursery rhyme. Well,

9
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm and rhyme. That's because the real rhyme, Sarah is

10
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: a lie. So she gave her mother forty wax and

11
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 1: gave her father at forty one. That is not true.

12
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,839
Speaker 1: And Lizzie Borden is one of the podcast topics that

13
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: we have always resisted. We probably get this request, maybe

14
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,560
Speaker 1: more than any other topic. I don't know. I don't

15
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,880
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to put one above the other,

16
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: but it's way way up there, along with Jack the Ripper,

17
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But the subject has never interested

18
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,920
Speaker 1: us my much because you know, here's the story. A

19
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: woman was accused of brutally murdering her parents and hacking

20
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 1: their faces to pieces. But she's acquitted and we still

21
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,399
Speaker 1: don't know if she really did it. That's that's the

22
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 1: whole story, and that's kind of your standard nightly news fair.

23
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to say it, but it's something

24
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,960
Speaker 1: that happens almost every day. One. Of course, the story

25
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 1: of someone who murders a family member is nothing new.

26
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: You know, We've got Cane and Able and Caligula and Drusilla.

27
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 1: But we had to rethink our point of view because

28
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: if so many of you are captivated by this story,

29
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 1: there must be a reason why, and we aim to

30
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,839
Speaker 1: put our prejudices aside and try to find it. So

31
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: here we go. Okay, the basics of our case. On

32
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:49,080
Speaker 1: August four, in Fall River, Massachusetts, a woman is brutally

33
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,080
Speaker 1: murdered in her home with a hatchet. Not long after,

34
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 1: her husband meets the same fate while he's asleep on

35
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 1: a couch in his living room. The main suspect is

36
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 1: their thirty two year old daughter, Lizzie Borden, and we

37
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: have a few possible motives. Money, the father was a

38
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: very wealthy man, or hatred of the stepmother. Stepmother, that's

39
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 1: a crucial part to this story a combination of the two.

40
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 1: The combination of the two. Yeah, So the jury's verdict

41
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: is acquittal, and that's probably the main reason why people

42
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 1: are so fascinated with the story. What really happened? How

43
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,359
Speaker 1: did Lizzie Borden get acquitted? So a little family background

44
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 1: to start with. Sarah Anthony Morris married Andrew Jackson Borden

45
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: the Christmas of eighteen forty five and they had three

46
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 1: children together, Emma Alice and Lizzie. Alice died at the

47
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 1: age of two, and Sarah herself died when Lizzie was

48
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,400
Speaker 1: about three, so she never got to know her mother.

49
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: And as Sarah mentioned, Andrew was very wealthy. He owned property,

50
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: he had holdings in textiles and banking, he directed corporations,

51
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 1: and one would imagine that made him an attractive prospect

52
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 1: for a husband, and so it did. Plussy has two

53
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 1: young girls, and so Lizzie's father remarries and he marries

54
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 1: Abby Durphy, and Lizzie was about five at the time,

55
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: and Emma, the older sister, about fourteen, and according to

56
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 1: Lizzie's testimony at the inquest, Emma always called her stepmother Abby,

57
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: but Lizzie always called her mother until about five or

58
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,360
Speaker 1: six years before the murder went down. So make of

59
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 1: that what you will, but it seems like this is

60
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 1: a woman who she thought of as her mother for

61
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: most of her life. And again later when the d A.

62
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 1: Jose and Nolton asked if Lizzie's relationship with her stepmother

63
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: was cordial, she replied, it depends upon one's idea of cordiality, perhaps,

64
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 1: which isn't exactly the picture of a happy home. But

65
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 1: Emma and her trial testimony said that the relationship was

66
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 1: cordial and that Lizzie and her father had a very

67
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: good one. So we're going to give you the outline

68
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: of if she did it, this is what happened. Okay,

69
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: So here's here's to basic starting fact. Lizzie and Emma

70
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: both admitted that they were upset about their father giving

71
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: one of his properties to Abby and her sister instead

72
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: of them. They were both older, they're unmarried, and they

73
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,600
Speaker 1: expected their elderly father would provide for them and set

74
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 1: them up for the rest of their life financially. And

75
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: according to some there was this rumor that he was

76
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,560
Speaker 1: going to change his will in favor of his wife,

77
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 1: and that might cause a few family problems, I'd say so.

78
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 1: On August three, which was the day before the murders,

79
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 1: Lizzie attempted to buy prussic acid, a poison from pharmacist

80
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 1: to Eli Bentz, and he refused her. But the Boardens

81
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,680
Speaker 1: and their maid, Bridget Sullivan, all reported feeling sick that

82
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 1: day and the next morning. On August four, Emma was

83
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,479
Speaker 1: in fair Haven, Massachusetts, but there were a few other

84
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: people around, uh, the maide we just mentioned Bridget, but

85
00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,119
Speaker 1: also kind of randomly, the deceased Sarah brother, John Moore,

86
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,279
Speaker 1: so Lizzie's uncle from Lizzie's uncle on her mom's side. Uh,

87
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: he's visiting. He'd arrived the night before, but he left

88
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,480
Speaker 1: in the morning to go visit another cousin. So he's

89
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 1: not around when the murders go down, but he's there

90
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,239
Speaker 1: immediately before and then he comes back, so he's there after.

91
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: Andrew Boorden and her father left the house that morning

92
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 1: as well to get some business done in town. Abby

93
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,720
Speaker 1: stayed in the house and she began doing chores and

94
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 1: headed to the guest room to make the bed, you know,

95
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: put on pillow shams, tidy up, and she asked Bridget

96
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,359
Speaker 1: to wash the outsides of the window. So she's in

97
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,240
Speaker 1: the house. Bridge is outside the house. The only other

98
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,039
Speaker 1: person who's inside the house is Lizzie Borden. Okay, So

99
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,719
Speaker 1: according to Lizzie's story, at this point, Abby received a

100
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 1: note from some messenger we don't know who, calling her

101
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 1: to some sick person's home. We don't know the sick

102
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,320
Speaker 1: person either, and Abby left the house on this errand.

103
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 1: But this is where our events are gonna start down. Like,

104
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: if Lizzie did it, here's what happened. So what happened then,

105
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 1: if if Lizzie did it, is she found Abby on

106
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,720
Speaker 1: the second floor, hit her from behind with an axe,

107
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,720
Speaker 1: and then hacked her eighteen more times, and she left

108
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 1: the body, She cleaned herself up and the axe. She

109
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 1: knew her father probably wouldn't come home for a while.

110
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,280
Speaker 1: It ended up being an hour and a half, so

111
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 1: in the meantime she did some reading and some ironing

112
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 1: and some sewing, you know, between murders. And when he returned,

113
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: Bridget unlocked the door for him, and as she did,

114
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,239
Speaker 1: she heard Lizzie laughing on the second floor landing after

115
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: she had killed her stepmother. Right, So, Lizzie told Andrew

116
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: that his wife had received that note and had gone

117
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 1: off on that arrand, and she settled him down on

118
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: the couch and tried to convince Bridget to go out

119
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,799
Speaker 1: of the house. There was supposibly a really good sale

120
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: on ribbons, trying to sale who can resist to entice

121
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,560
Speaker 1: the maid, but Bridget isn't interested. She instead goes to

122
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: the attic, probably worn out from all that window washing

123
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,039
Speaker 1: and her upset stomach from the poison the night before,

124
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: but possible poison. Possible poison. Um. So, after Lizzie settled

125
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: her father on the couch, he falls asleep, and then

126
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: supposedly she hits him in the face and head with

127
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: the axe ten times, so hard that she snaps the

128
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 1: handle off the axe. But then in ten minutes, according

129
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,800
Speaker 1: to the timeline that the police tried to put together

130
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,320
Speaker 1: based on what everyone said they were doing that day

131
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 1: and and uh Lizzie's own conflicting testimony, she would have

132
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 1: had to clean herself off, her clothes and the murder

133
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: weapon in ten minutes and only then axing someone ten times.

134
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 1: Let's see, I imagine that would be a messy scene. Yeah,

135
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: I think so. And only after this did she call

136
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: to Bridget for help. And announced that her father had died.

137
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: She didn't say anything about Abby because she thought that

138
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 1: he had left the house. She's off on the errand

139
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: so now we're going to move on to the bodies

140
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 1: and the scene. And this is pretty disturbing stuff. But

141
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 1: Abby had a five inch hole in her skull, and

142
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 1: her head and her face were completely unrecognizable. She was

143
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: lying face down in coagulated blood, and her clothes were

144
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 1: soaked in it, and the bed and the pillow sham

145
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 1: next to her were all bloody, and the wall in

146
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: the chair in the bureau all covered in blood. Of

147
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 1: just a small disturbing detail, her braid had even been

148
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 1: hacked off. And Andrew was on his back on a lounge,

149
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: his face turned as he slept, and his face and head,

150
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: too were no longer recognizable. You can find pictures of

151
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 1: the crime scene online if you so desire, which you

152
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,679
Speaker 1: very well might not. The axe had gone through his cheekbone,

153
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,200
Speaker 1: it had severed his eye in half. There was blood

154
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 1: dripping onto the floor and from the sofa and on

155
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 1: the walls, painting on the wall, the feeling the door,

156
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,559
Speaker 1: and it was still wet and flowing when others entered

157
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 1: the scene which is why we assume that Abby had

158
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 1: died first and he had died second. But it seems

159
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: very personal to attack only a person's face and had

160
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 1: to us definitely and in so many times too. But

161
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,839
Speaker 1: here's an important detail. The rooms were perfectly in order.

162
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 1: There was no sign of a break in, no sign

163
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: of a struggle. It seemed likely that whoever did this

164
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: knew the couple. And also the boardings kept all of

165
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: their doors locked all of the time, and supposedly this

166
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,839
Speaker 1: is because there had been a theft in the home

167
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,480
Speaker 1: and perhaps Lizzie had a history of shoplifting. Um, so

168
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,840
Speaker 1: their house was always on lockdown, which pains rather disturbing

169
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: scene for the house too, I'd say make her move out,

170
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: not well, and don't think of it. Just as like,

171
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 1: the front door is locked like a normal house would be,

172
00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 1: but all of the rooms and everything just completely locked

173
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 1: down all the time. And if it is all locked,

174
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 1: the person probably would have had to be in the

175
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,200
Speaker 1: house the whole time. Yeah, exactly. So after the murders,

176
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 1: Lizzie called for Bridget after this ten minute window we have,

177
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: and then sent Bridget to go get the family doctor

178
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: Dr Bowen. Bridget couldn't find the doctor or he wasn't there.

179
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 1: She comes back without him, and then Lizzie sent her

180
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 1: out again, this time to get a family friend, Alice Russell.

181
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, their neighbor, Adelaide Churchill, showed up

182
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 1: and she went off for help. So just imagine all

183
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,000
Speaker 1: of these people sort of coming in and out, but

184
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 1: large periods of time where Lizzie is in the house

185
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 1: by herself, possibly doing anything. Dr Bowen does come to

186
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 1: the house finally, and Bridget and Adelaide return and they're

187
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 1: the ones who discover Abby's body upstairs. Because of course

188
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 1: that police officer asked Lizzie, when's the last time you

189
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,439
Speaker 1: saw your mother? She said she went off on the

190
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,360
Speaker 1: stern mother, Yeah, and she said she was gone the house,

191
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,320
Speaker 1: but the last time she'd seen her was in the

192
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,839
Speaker 1: guest room. So the maid and their neighbor go upstairs

193
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 1: and find Abby's body. And you can imagine we've already

194
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: listed all of these people who are at the crime scene.

195
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,679
Speaker 1: Soon enough we have more officers, more neighbors and onlookers.

196
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 1: Everyone is trampling all over everything. Police are walking through

197
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: the crime scenes. That evidence, whatever evidence there would have been,

198
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:29,040
Speaker 1: is completely contaminated and one Katie just kind of mentioned this. Yeah.

199
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: An officer on the scene asked Lizzie when she had

200
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 1: last seen her mother, and she was very careful to say, no,

201
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: it's my stepmother, and she said her mother died when

202
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 1: she was a baby. And this turns out to be

203
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 1: a really big piece of evidence, or at least it's

204
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 1: keeps coming up turned into a big piece of evidence.

205
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know how much how much there is

206
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,960
Speaker 1: to that. Maybe she was just trying to be very precise. Yea,

207
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 1: and Abby is her stepmother, no matter what kind of

208
00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: relationship they had, so no one thought z was guilty,

209
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,760
Speaker 1: and instead all manner of suspicious characters are implicated. Lizzie

210
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,800
Speaker 1: had mentioned an angry tenant that she'd heard with her father.

211
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: Others were called seeing suspicious men near the house recently,

212
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 1: including a mysterious Portuguese farmhand who perhaps was the fiendish

213
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 1: murderer that ends up not panning out, and another Portuguese

214
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 1: guy had recently killed someone in town, so we thought

215
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: maybe it was him, and arrested a different one. So

216
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 1: try not to be Portuguese around the board and murders.

217
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 1: But in early newspaper accounts. They said that Lizzie had

218
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: been in the barn, she came into the house, she

219
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 1: saw her father's body, rushed upstairs and found her mother's.

220
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,679
Speaker 1: And then they were counted any possible theory, this angry tenant,

221
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 1: a man who had been sleeping in the hay loft

222
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: and planning these murders, someone who was poisoning the family's milk,

223
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 1: some kind of trickster who sent Abby this note to

224
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 1: try to get her out of the house and commit

225
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,320
Speaker 1: other sinful deeds and and go after Mr Borden. And

226
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,079
Speaker 1: the newspapers aren't suggesting Lizzie as the possible murderer at

227
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,160
Speaker 1: all at this point. According to the Boston Harold quote,

228
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: in Lizzie Borden's life, there is not one unmaidenly nor

229
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 1: a single deliberately unkind act. So people were pretty confident

230
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 1: it was not this well bred young woman. It was

231
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 1: some sort of dastardly man, preferably a Portuguese farm hasterious,

232
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,840
Speaker 1: for it's a mysterious man who's briefly in town. It

233
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,680
Speaker 1: couldn't be Lizzie Borden herself. But the evidence starts piling

234
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 1: up because who else could have done it? According to

235
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 1: this timeline and all the other aspects, like the locked doors.

236
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,559
Speaker 1: She was pretty much the only one, and this mysterious

237
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: man theory begins to seem a little thin. Lizzie's isn't

238
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 1: a good mysterious man around, no, and she's emerging as

239
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,679
Speaker 1: the most likely suspect, especially after her in quest testimony.

240
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,520
Speaker 1: So the inquest was August nine, and it's Josea Nolten

241
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 1: questioning her and also Bridget and John Worse and some

242
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 1: of the others, and Lizzie continually contradicts herself about times

243
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 1: and the sequence of events, and she says some very

244
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,560
Speaker 1: odd things. She seems confused by the questions and was

245
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: disquietingly calm. Yeah, and just a few days later, on

246
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 1: the eleventh of August, she was arrested and claimed she

247
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: was not guilty. By August twenty two, there was a

248
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing and at that the judge said, well, she

249
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 1: probably is guilty and she's going to have to go

250
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 1: in front of a grand jury. But the grand jury

251
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't agree to actually meet until they got this just

252
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 1: sort of decisive account from Alice Russell. And Alice Russell

253
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: said she was the friend and neighbor remember she said

254
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,320
Speaker 1: that she saw Lizzie burning a dress in the kitchen

255
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 1: just a few days after the murder. So once the

256
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 1: grand jury here's that, they're like, all right, better hear

257
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: we better hear what Lizzie has to say. The trial

258
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 1: began June fi and again some more fabulous newspaper quotes

259
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: um in the Boston Herald quote her dark, lustrous eyes

260
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 1: ordinarily flashing, were dimmed, and her pale face was evidence

261
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 1: of the physical suffering she was undergoing and had experienced.

262
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 1: Poor poor Lizzie. So the prosecution was led by Joseah

263
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: Nolton and William Moody. The defense led by Andrew Jennings,

264
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 1: Melvin Adams, and George Robinson. And Moody told the jury

265
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 1: that Lizzie had planned the murders, committed the murders, and

266
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 1: then couldn't even keep her story straight. And they hadn't

267
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: seen a tear from her. You know, she was not

268
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 1: reacting as a woman in this position should she hated

269
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: her stepmother, she wanted her father's money. That's the story

270
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 1: that they were presenting. But there are plenty of things

271
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 1: that Lizzie had going for her, starting with she's this

272
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: woman of breeding from a good family. She has those

273
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,320
Speaker 1: newspaper quotes exactly, She had plenty of character recommendations, and

274
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 1: not many people thought a woman was capable of hacking

275
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: someone's face to pieces. You know, Poison sounds like a

276
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: nice feminine way to kill someone, not a hatchet. And

277
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 1: then we have the character references coming in here too.

278
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 1: So her sister and her uncle and the maid all

279
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: said that she had a good relationship with Andrew and Abby,

280
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: there was no motive to kill either of them. And

281
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 1: then this is sort of the crucial thing. They didn't

282
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 1: have the murder weapon. They have some axes, because there

283
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: are plenty around if you've got a barn, and they've

284
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 1: got one that doesn't have a handle, But there's no

285
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: blood anywhere on it, and we're missing the handle, so

286
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 1: it could be the axe, but it could just be

287
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 1: a broken axe sitting around from farm work. And we

288
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: also have no blood on her clothes or her shoes.

289
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: We have nothing, no blood. It's not a really great

290
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 1: case for the prosecutor. It's all completely circumstantial. And then

291
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: this is the killer thing here, her in her inquest testimony,

292
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 1: which is what of course made the judge think she

293
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,399
Speaker 1: needed to go in front of a grand jury in

294
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: the first place. Was ruled in admissible in court, and

295
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 1: that's because the judge believed that she had been treated

296
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: as a prisoner instead of as a suspect while she

297
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 1: was having her inquest, and she like, she wasn't just

298
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 1: a witness, she was under questioning, yeah, and should have

299
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: had an attorney present. Since she didn't, he didn't think

300
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,919
Speaker 1: that they could actually take her in quest seriously well.

301
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 1: And as a side note, Dr Bowen had dosed her

302
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,679
Speaker 1: with morphine before this inquest to keep her calm, but

303
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 1: obviously that could have made her kind of loopy. So

304
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 1: I mean that could explain her contradictory and why everything

305
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: could kind of confused her. But the prosecution was saying

306
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 1: even in her inquest she denied everything. There wasn't anything

307
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: in the inquest, no confession. Yeah, she wasn't coerced into

308
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: confessing to these murders in it because she's all doped

309
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: up on morphine. If she didn't confess to it, then

310
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: why couldn't they use it? That was their their point.

311
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 1: But the testimony was excluded and also ruled in invisible.

312
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 1: Was Eli Bentz, the pharmacist. His testimony about her trying

313
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: to buy poison from him. These are two key points

314
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: that are missing from that entire trial, so that Lupi

315
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 1: inquest and the poison fact, which seems very significant. So

316
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 1: there is still a fair amount of evidence against her.

317
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: Though according to bridget the maid, there was no way

318
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,919
Speaker 1: anyone else could have gotten into the house during the

319
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 1: timeline of the day without being seen, and Lizzie was

320
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 1: simply the only person who would have had access. And

321
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: I also thought it was very strange that Lizzie didn't

322
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: wonder where her mother went and that she was also

323
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 1: in the house and didn't hear her being murdered and

324
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 1: falling to the ground. You know, maybe after you come

325
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: across your father's body, you begin to wonder what happened

326
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: to your mother, Yeah, or you would just hear her

327
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 1: falling upstairs. But the family may have said that Lizzie

328
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: and Abby had a pretty okay relationship, but others were

329
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 1: testifying no, they Lizzie hated her stepmother and the friend

330
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 1: the family, friend, Alice Russell, said that Lizzie had come

331
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 1: to her the night before the killings and said, quote,

332
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: I feel afraid something is going to happen, so starting

333
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,120
Speaker 1: to paint a darker picture of Lizzie's psychological state before this.

334
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: Lizzie also said that she had been in the barn

335
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 1: during the time of her father's homicide, but when officers

336
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: went to investigate the loft, it was very dusty and

337
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: there were no footprints but the officer's own, which seemed

338
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: a little bit strange, and it was also extremely hot

339
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: in there. She'd claimed to have been there for thirty

340
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: minutes on this silly errand looking for lead for sinkers,

341
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 1: which again, something's not quite right there. Yeah, maybe not

342
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 1: an area or a chorey do in the middle of

343
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: the day. And then there's that note which seems very

344
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: are you sketchy? Indeed, the note that Lizzie said Mrs

345
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 1: Borden received. No one ever found the note, No one

346
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 1: ever figured out who the messenger was, No one ever

347
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: even figured out who the sick person was who needed

348
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: visiting in the first place. There was a reward offered,

349
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: nobody came forward with any news. And again her timeline

350
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: that day made no sense. And the dress Alice saw

351
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: her burning, she said it had paint on it, just

352
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: doing a little wardrobe cleaning a few days after her Yeah,

353
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: and it could very well, of course, have been blood.

354
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: And the dress that she gave the police and said

355
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: she was wearing that day wasn't the dress she was

356
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,199
Speaker 1: wearing at all at the time of the murders. It

357
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: was a much too. It was silky and kind of

358
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 1: a nice dress, not the sort of thing you'd sure

359
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: a dress around the house. And then Lizzie was eerily

360
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: calm during the whole trial. According to the New York

361
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: Times quote, the most remarkable feature of the trial has

362
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,959
Speaker 1: been the demeanor of Lizzie Borden. From start to finish,

363
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: she has manifested no feeling of weakness, and has listened

364
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 1: to the recital of the most cold blooded and shocking

365
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: details of the crime with a perfectly impassive and unmoved countenance.

366
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: I maintain it could have been shocked, could have been shocked.

367
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: But here we do start to see the papers turn

368
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: a little bit against her. So she does fate when

369
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: the skulls of her parents were revealed, but they considered

370
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 1: that a point for her. There are some rebuttals as

371
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 1: far as that whole dusty hay loft thing. There were

372
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: some men doing work a few days before the murders,

373
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 1: and they were like, listen, we were in there, and

374
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: there are no footprints of ours either, So this is

375
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: a ridiculous piece of evidence. And also, would a killer

376
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: be that open about burning a dress in the kitchen?

377
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: That was the other point. Wouldn't she be sneakier about it?

378
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: You gotta get rid of the dress, You gotta get

379
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: rid of it. And again, where is our bloody hatchet?

380
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,959
Speaker 1: Where's this axe handle that supposedly came off from the

381
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: force of the blows? How could she wash herself, her

382
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: clothes and a murder weapon in about ten minutes before

383
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: she called ridget? Some people were like, maybe she didn't

384
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: naked and that's how but I mean, certainly paints the wilder.

385
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 1: And then one more final important rebuttal Andrew was a

386
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 1: really rich guy, so it's not too unlikely that somebody

387
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: might have something against him or want to get money somehow.

388
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: And then some people did say that they had seen

389
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: suspicious characters, just nobody they could specifically name, hanging around

390
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: the house right before the murders. One again, this is

391
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: all circumstantial evidence, and there is a reasonable doubt and

392
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree if we were on

393
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: that jury, we would have thought the same thing, and

394
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: the judge agreed and Lizzie was acquitted. So picking up

395
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: with Lizzie's life after the murders, what happens after a

396
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: trial like this and sensational murders like this. Emma and

397
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: Lizzie bought a nice house together in Fall River. Lizzie

398
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: named it Maple Croft and changed her name to Lizabeth.

399
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: Emma became very involved in church but eventually moved out.

400
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: They had some sort of falling out our argumentum, possibly

401
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: because Lizzie had a relationship with an actress and Emma

402
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: changed her name as well, And they died only nine

403
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: days apart, which is one of those spooky little connected

404
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: to the end of this bizarre little thing. So there

405
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: you go, guys, Lizzie Borden episode. And I mean, we've

406
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: got to think about sort of modern connections to what

407
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: we see in the news right well, and and why

408
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: it's so important. I mean, today, like you mentioned earlier,

409
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: when you're looking at the news, the murder of a

410
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: child or a spouse or a parent is unfortunately all

411
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: too common, and after a while, maybe the horror that

412
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: stops being so shocking, and maybe it's easier to contemplate

413
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: a crime like this, with the safety that distance provides.

414
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: You're looking back at it in time, it's not so present.

415
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: And this has become such a part of American lore

416
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: that we've got a nursery rhyme about it. Yeah, Lizzie

417
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: Borden has become a club nursery. Maybe because plain rhymes.

418
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: That's not what you're seeing in the nursery. Um. You know,

419
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: I visited Salem about a year and a half ago,

420
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: and Lizzie Borden is not from Salem. But there are

421
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: all these shops with Lizzie Borden memorabilia, and you know

422
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: those hologram things where it's this staid portrait of a nice,

423
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: buttoned up Lizzie Borden and then it's like scary as

424
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: or that kind of thing. I think it's just she's

425
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: a cult figure. She's caught people's attention somehow. And of

426
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: course we're always fascinated by gore and violence human beings

427
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: in general, not just Sarah and I, um, but also

428
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: by what is unsolved, because you know, we like to

429
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: tie up loose ends, we like to find our answers.

430
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: But in this case, the only real satisfying answer would

431
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: be for Lizzie Borden to appear right before us and say, yes,

432
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: I did it, perhaps in hologram, for I hope that

433
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: it would just be the real her. But that's the

434
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: answer we can't have, and that's what makes it all

435
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: the more alluring. So if you would like to tell us,

436
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: all you requesters of Lizzie Borden, exactly why this matters

437
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: to you, we're still wondering, so you can email us

438
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com. We're

439
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: also on Twitter and missed in History, and we have

440
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: a Facebook fan page, and there's an article that might

441
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: go along with this, how blood stained pattern analysis works,

442
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: that you can find if you search our homepage at

443
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: www dot how stuff works dot com. For more on

444
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works

445
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: dot com and be sure to check out the stuff

446
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: you missed in History Glass blog on the how stuff

447
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: works dot com home page