1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness, invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,761 --> 00:01:33,721 Speaker 2: On Friday, October twenty seventh, nineteen eighty nine, ten year 13 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: old Amy Mahalovich rode her bike to her fifth grade 14 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,521 Speaker 2: class at Bay Middle School with her friend Kristen. This 15 00:01:40,721 --> 00:01:44,321 Speaker 2: was part of her usual routine. It was at Chili 16 00:01:44,441 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: Fall Day in Bay Village, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland. 17 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: Kristin said that on this day, Amy was excitedly talking 18 00:01:52,361 --> 00:01:55,001 Speaker 2: about the yearbook picture retakes that were happening at school 19 00:01:55,001 --> 00:01:58,561 Speaker 2: that morning. The students had had their original pictures taken 20 00:01:58,561 --> 00:02:01,401 Speaker 2: a few weeks earlier. Amy had put her hair into 21 00:02:01,441 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: a side ponytail, which was all the rage at the time, 22 00:02:05,001 --> 00:02:07,721 Speaker 2: but apparently she wasn't happy with how it turned out. 23 00:02:08,201 --> 00:02:09,481 Speaker 3: It just didn't feel like her. 24 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,841 Speaker 2: Police later checked out this information and found that a 25 00:02:13,881 --> 00:02:17,721 Speaker 2: photographer from Ohio's School Pictures had come to the school 26 00:02:17,881 --> 00:02:22,041 Speaker 2: on October fourth. Amy's fifth grade class led out at 27 00:02:22,041 --> 00:02:26,241 Speaker 2: two four pm that afternoon. Kristin later told the FBI 28 00:02:26,721 --> 00:02:29,001 Speaker 2: that after school, when she went to get her bike 29 00:02:29,041 --> 00:02:32,321 Speaker 2: to ride home, she noticed that Amy's bike was still 30 00:02:32,361 --> 00:02:35,841 Speaker 2: in the bike rack. Amy had a brother named Jason, 31 00:02:35,921 --> 00:02:38,561 Speaker 2: who was two years older in the seventh grade. His 32 00:02:38,761 --> 00:02:42,121 Speaker 2: class led out an hour later than Amy's, so Amy 33 00:02:42,201 --> 00:02:45,921 Speaker 2: normally got home first. Both kids were expected to call 34 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,361 Speaker 2: their mom, Margaret at work, every day when they arrived home, 35 00:02:50,001 --> 00:02:53,641 Speaker 2: but on that Friday, Jason called Margaret at her job 36 00:02:53,881 --> 00:02:57,201 Speaker 2: at The Trading Times, the local newspaper where she worked, 37 00:02:57,201 --> 00:02:59,721 Speaker 2: to say he had made it home safely, but he 38 00:02:59,761 --> 00:03:04,761 Speaker 2: said Amy still hadn't come home. Margaret wasn't immediately worried 39 00:03:05,081 --> 00:03:07,521 Speaker 2: because Amy had told her that there was a choir 40 00:03:07,601 --> 00:03:11,281 Speaker 2: practice or some kind of a tryout that evening. At 41 00:03:11,321 --> 00:03:14,121 Speaker 2: three forty pm, Margaret got a call at work, it 42 00:03:14,161 --> 00:03:17,281 Speaker 2: was Amy. Amy told her mom that she was fine 43 00:03:17,401 --> 00:03:21,561 Speaker 2: and the try out went well. Margaret later told investigators 44 00:03:21,721 --> 00:03:23,841 Speaker 2: she thought Amy was home when she made that call. 45 00:03:25,361 --> 00:03:28,601 Speaker 2: After work, Margaret drove home, which was about ten minutes away. 46 00:03:29,161 --> 00:03:33,481 Speaker 2: Amy still wasn't home. Concerned, Margaret went to the school. 47 00:03:34,041 --> 00:03:36,761 Speaker 2: That's when she saw Amy's bike still in the rack 48 00:03:36,881 --> 00:03:39,921 Speaker 2: and realized she hadn't ridden her bike home. She went 49 00:03:39,961 --> 00:03:42,201 Speaker 2: to the police station to report Amy missing. 50 00:03:43,121 --> 00:03:44,441 Speaker 3: Amy's fought Mark. 51 00:03:44,281 --> 00:03:46,721 Speaker 2: Who was away on a work trip, would point out 52 00:03:46,801 --> 00:03:50,441 Speaker 2: later that to him, the mention of choir practice on 53 00:03:50,481 --> 00:03:53,841 Speaker 2: a Friday afternoon or evening was kind of a red flag, 54 00:03:54,161 --> 00:03:56,841 Speaker 2: since choir practice, to his knowledge, was not ever held 55 00:03:56,881 --> 00:04:01,161 Speaker 2: on that night. In their investigation, police discovered that after 56 00:04:01,161 --> 00:04:04,121 Speaker 2: school let out, Amy walked about a quarter mile to 57 00:04:04,161 --> 00:04:07,921 Speaker 2: a nearby mall, the Bay Square Shopping Center, with two girlfriends. 58 00:04:08,561 --> 00:04:11,161 Speaker 2: That's when they found out the choir practice story was 59 00:04:11,201 --> 00:04:14,881 Speaker 2: covered for something else. They found out that an unknown 60 00:04:14,921 --> 00:04:18,121 Speaker 2: caller had contacted Amy at home and said they would 61 00:04:18,121 --> 00:04:19,721 Speaker 2: meet her in the mall to buy a gift for 62 00:04:19,801 --> 00:04:23,121 Speaker 2: her mother because her mother had been promoted. But this 63 00:04:23,361 --> 00:04:27,841 Speaker 2: wasn't true. There was no promotion and no gift. Amy's 64 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,481 Speaker 2: abductor kidnapped her from that mall. Witnesses saw Amy talking 65 00:04:32,481 --> 00:04:35,801 Speaker 2: to a man in the parking lot, and then she disappeared, 66 00:04:36,681 --> 00:04:39,001 Speaker 2: and there was no sign of her for several months 67 00:04:39,521 --> 00:04:43,681 Speaker 2: until on February eighth, nineteen ninety, nearly four months after 68 00:04:43,841 --> 00:04:48,121 Speaker 2: the incident, a female jogger was running near a cornfield 69 00:04:48,241 --> 00:04:51,921 Speaker 2: in Ruggles Township off County Road eleven eighty one, in 70 00:04:51,961 --> 00:04:55,481 Speaker 2: a rural area of Ashland County. That's when she found 71 00:04:55,721 --> 00:04:57,761 Speaker 2: Amy's body. 72 00:04:58,481 --> 00:04:59,561 Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend. 73 00:05:00,041 --> 00:05:02,801 Speaker 2: Over the past seven years of making my true crime podcast, 74 00:05:02,841 --> 00:05:05,881 Speaker 2: Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as 75 00:05:05,881 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: a small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds 76 00:05:09,761 --> 00:05:12,841 Speaker 2: of messages from people all around the country asking for 77 00:05:12,881 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, 78 00:05:16,601 --> 00:05:20,041 Speaker 2: and their communities. If you have a case she'd like 79 00:05:20,121 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: me and my team to look into, you can reach 80 00:05:22,241 --> 00:05:24,561 Speaker 2: out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at 81 00:05:24,601 --> 00:05:27,881 Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 82 00:05:28,441 --> 00:05:31,961 Speaker 2: That's six seven a seven four four six one four five, 83 00:05:32,761 --> 00:05:35,641 Speaker 2: or you can send us a message on Instagram at 84 00:05:35,881 --> 00:06:25,841 Speaker 2: Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder line. Amy Mulholovic 85 00:06:26,081 --> 00:06:29,841 Speaker 2: was born on December eleventh, nineteen seventy eight, in Little Rock, Arkansas. 86 00:06:30,681 --> 00:06:33,321 Speaker 2: She grew up with her mom, Margaret, her dad Mark, 87 00:06:33,401 --> 00:06:35,761 Speaker 2: and her brother Jason, who was two years older than her. 88 00:06:36,761 --> 00:06:40,801 Speaker 2: The year after Amy was born, Mark was transferred to Jackson, Mississippi. 89 00:06:41,241 --> 00:06:44,561 Speaker 2: He had a long career with Bwick. In nineteen eighty four, 90 00:06:44,601 --> 00:06:47,681 Speaker 2: he was transferred again. That's when the family moved and 91 00:06:47,761 --> 00:06:52,041 Speaker 2: settled near Cleveland, Ohio. That's where Amy grew up at 92 00:06:52,081 --> 00:06:56,161 Speaker 2: six twenty eight Lynford Drive in Bay Village, Ohio. Amy 93 00:06:56,241 --> 00:06:58,561 Speaker 2: grew up riding her bike to school with her friends 94 00:06:58,921 --> 00:07:00,921 Speaker 2: and doing all the normal things that kids did in 95 00:07:01,001 --> 00:07:05,041 Speaker 2: the late eighties. She loved the movie Dirty Dancy. According 96 00:07:05,041 --> 00:07:08,201 Speaker 2: to her friends, she knew every line. She was also 97 00:07:08,281 --> 00:07:12,441 Speaker 2: proud of her collection of My Little Pony figurines. Amy 98 00:07:12,961 --> 00:07:16,681 Speaker 2: was petite four foot ten inches and ninety pounds, and 99 00:07:16,761 --> 00:07:20,241 Speaker 2: she was constantly on the move. She participated in a 100 00:07:20,241 --> 00:07:24,601 Speaker 2: lot of activities, including swimming, brownies, and especially horseback riding. 101 00:07:25,281 --> 00:07:28,001 Speaker 2: She loved to take lessons and train at the nearby 102 00:07:28,081 --> 00:07:32,001 Speaker 2: stable Holly Hill Farms. The horse she loved the most 103 00:07:32,361 --> 00:07:37,041 Speaker 2: was named Razzle. Amy's father, Mark, came home from his 104 00:07:37,121 --> 00:07:40,201 Speaker 2: work trip. He had been away for several days. By 105 00:07:40,241 --> 00:07:43,121 Speaker 2: the time he got home, he said, Margaret was hysterical. 106 00:07:43,761 --> 00:07:47,201 Speaker 2: She'd already called all of Amy's friends, and he immediately 107 00:07:47,241 --> 00:07:51,721 Speaker 2: started searching the local area. Margaret had already called the 108 00:07:51,761 --> 00:07:55,561 Speaker 2: police and reported Amy missing. By the next morning, the 109 00:07:55,681 --> 00:07:59,281 Speaker 2: FBI was there and they were cooperating with local police. 110 00:07:59,921 --> 00:08:06,041 Speaker 2: The FBI interrogated everyone, including Amy's family, following standard protocol. 111 00:08:07,121 --> 00:08:09,961 Speaker 2: We got a chance to speak to Amy's older brother, Jason. 112 00:08:10,601 --> 00:08:14,641 Speaker 2: Jason is now forty nine years old. He lives in Ohio. 113 00:08:15,241 --> 00:08:18,801 Speaker 2: He shared his experience in the aftermath of his sister's disappearance. 114 00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:21,801 Speaker 4: Well, I mean I thought it was Let's see, I 115 00:08:21,881 --> 00:08:24,841 Speaker 4: was in seventh grade and she was in fifth, sorry 116 00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:27,521 Speaker 4: getting old, so she would usually be home when I 117 00:08:27,641 --> 00:08:30,241 Speaker 4: was on my way home, so she got home earlier 118 00:08:30,241 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 4: than I did, and for whatever reason, on that Frienday, 119 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:35,121 Speaker 4: she wasn't And I called my mom asked what was 120 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: going on, and she said, oh, yeah, she had some 121 00:08:37,001 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 4: sort of trial for a choir something that should be back. 122 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,401 Speaker 4: And it got later and later, and leader I called 123 00:08:42,441 --> 00:08:44,841 Speaker 4: my mom and she started, who You're re get worried, 124 00:08:44,881 --> 00:08:48,001 Speaker 4: and then the whole cascade of things of realizing that no, 125 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,801 Speaker 4: she really wasn't gone, and I don't know what else is? 126 00:08:51,841 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: Where else is say? There were countless police and Atbie 127 00:08:57,481 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 4: in and out of the house in all hours of 128 00:09:00,241 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 4: the night and day, and especially the first couple of 129 00:09:03,641 --> 00:09:07,641 Speaker 4: weeks when everything was focused on finding her and rescuing her. 130 00:09:09,001 --> 00:09:12,721 Speaker 2: The day after Amy disappeared on Saturday morning, one of 131 00:09:12,761 --> 00:09:16,641 Speaker 2: Amy's neighbors, another girl who was in her class, told 132 00:09:16,681 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: police that at lunch the day before, Amy had told 133 00:09:19,961 --> 00:09:21,961 Speaker 2: her that she got a phone call from a man 134 00:09:22,041 --> 00:09:25,761 Speaker 2: she didn't know. The male caller called Amy at home. 135 00:09:26,241 --> 00:09:28,961 Speaker 2: He claimed he worked with Amy's mother. He said he 136 00:09:29,041 --> 00:09:32,721 Speaker 2: wanted help buying a present to celebrate her promotion, and 137 00:09:32,961 --> 00:09:36,241 Speaker 2: he told Amy she could pick out a gift as well, 138 00:09:36,321 --> 00:09:40,321 Speaker 2: but Amy told her friend the caller had emphasized this 139 00:09:40,401 --> 00:09:44,761 Speaker 2: had to be their little secret. Investigators believe that at 140 00:09:44,801 --> 00:09:47,481 Speaker 2: the point when Amy made the call to her mom 141 00:09:47,481 --> 00:09:51,521 Speaker 2: at three forty pm, Amy had already been abducted. They 142 00:09:51,601 --> 00:09:54,481 Speaker 2: believed her abductor was standing there with her, and that 143 00:09:54,601 --> 00:09:57,601 Speaker 2: this call bought him crucial time to get further away. 144 00:09:58,761 --> 00:10:02,481 Speaker 2: Amy sounded fine on the call, so it's unclear whether 145 00:10:02,601 --> 00:10:04,801 Speaker 2: or not Amy knew she was in potential danger at 146 00:10:04,841 --> 00:10:08,481 Speaker 2: that time. She may have been frightened, or she may 147 00:10:08,521 --> 00:10:10,441 Speaker 2: have just thought this was all part of a secret 148 00:10:10,441 --> 00:10:15,001 Speaker 2: gift plan. Mark has said in multiple interviews that Amy 149 00:10:15,081 --> 00:10:18,041 Speaker 2: knew not to talk to strangers. But what if her 150 00:10:18,161 --> 00:10:21,961 Speaker 2: kidnapper knew their family or convinced Amy that he did. 151 00:10:23,201 --> 00:10:27,241 Speaker 2: Investigators learned something else. They found out several other young 152 00:10:27,321 --> 00:10:30,921 Speaker 2: girls had received phone calls similar to the ones Amy got. 153 00:10:31,081 --> 00:10:34,641 Speaker 2: They wondered if Amy had been targeted specifically, or if 154 00:10:34,681 --> 00:10:38,441 Speaker 2: the caller tried several girls before Amy was the one 155 00:10:38,481 --> 00:10:42,841 Speaker 2: who took the bait. Police talked to Amy's friends. Two 156 00:10:42,881 --> 00:10:45,841 Speaker 2: of her friends said they left class together. They all 157 00:10:45,881 --> 00:10:48,561 Speaker 2: walked together to the mall, which only took a few minutes. 158 00:10:49,121 --> 00:10:51,401 Speaker 2: They said that after they got to the mall, they 159 00:10:51,401 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: split up. Police talked to two witnesses who were eleven 160 00:10:56,361 --> 00:10:58,681 Speaker 2: years old. They said they were out in the parking 161 00:10:58,721 --> 00:11:02,441 Speaker 2: lot at around three pm. They saw Amy standing by 162 00:11:02,481 --> 00:11:05,121 Speaker 2: the mall like she was waiting for somebody. There was 163 00:11:05,161 --> 00:11:07,601 Speaker 2: a bask In Robin's ice cream shop out there that 164 00:11:07,681 --> 00:11:09,681 Speaker 2: a lot of the kids hung out at, and Apparently 165 00:11:09,721 --> 00:11:11,921 Speaker 2: Amy was near the ice cream store, although they didn't 166 00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:15,521 Speaker 2: see her go inside. The witnesses saw a man put 167 00:11:15,521 --> 00:11:18,401 Speaker 2: his hand on Amy's back and walk her out to 168 00:11:18,441 --> 00:11:21,361 Speaker 2: the parking lot, but Amy didn't seem to be in 169 00:11:21,401 --> 00:11:24,481 Speaker 2: any distress, so the two kids said they weren't really 170 00:11:24,481 --> 00:11:31,001 Speaker 2: paying attention. They didn't see where Amy went next. They 171 00:11:31,041 --> 00:11:33,721 Speaker 2: described the stranger with Amy that day as a clean 172 00:11:33,761 --> 00:11:37,681 Speaker 2: cut white man, approximately in his thirties, around five foot 173 00:11:37,721 --> 00:11:40,521 Speaker 2: seven to five foot eleven inches tall, with a bald 174 00:11:40,521 --> 00:11:45,481 Speaker 2: spot and dark, possibly gray hair. Detectives put together a 175 00:11:45,521 --> 00:11:49,241 Speaker 2: composite sketch of the man the witnesses saw. Now apparently 176 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,201 Speaker 2: there were some discrepancies between their descriptions. One of them 177 00:11:53,241 --> 00:11:55,641 Speaker 2: said the guy Amy was talking to had glasses, the 178 00:11:55,681 --> 00:11:59,001 Speaker 2: other said he didn't. And they interviewed many people, but 179 00:11:59,081 --> 00:12:01,801 Speaker 2: they never found the man in the sketch. It also 180 00:12:01,961 --> 00:12:05,281 Speaker 2: probably didn't help that the composite sketch literally looked like 181 00:12:05,601 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: your average white man on the street. It kind of 182 00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:12,721 Speaker 2: looked like it could be anyone. Amy's eleventh birthday came 183 00:12:12,881 --> 00:12:20,401 Speaker 2: and went with her family nowhere closer to finding answers. 184 00:12:26,961 --> 00:12:30,081 Speaker 2: Once Amy's body was found in February, of nineteen ninety, 185 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,361 Speaker 2: around twenty feet from the road. She was identified very 186 00:12:33,441 --> 00:12:38,481 Speaker 2: quickly from dental records and fingerprints. According to the autopsy report, 187 00:12:38,961 --> 00:12:41,601 Speaker 2: Amy had blunt forced trauma to the back of her head, 188 00:12:41,921 --> 00:12:43,121 Speaker 2: but the actual. 189 00:12:42,761 --> 00:12:45,041 Speaker 3: Cause of death with stab wounds to the neck. 190 00:12:45,801 --> 00:12:49,081 Speaker 2: The autopsy found Amy's body had been in that field 191 00:12:49,321 --> 00:12:53,521 Speaker 2: for a considerable period of time, probably the entire three months. 192 00:12:54,081 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: Investigators believed that Amy was dumped there either on the 193 00:12:57,121 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: day she went missing or shortly afterwards. Their best guess 194 00:13:01,321 --> 00:13:03,841 Speaker 2: is from a few hours to a few days after 195 00:13:03,881 --> 00:13:08,761 Speaker 2: her abduction. Of course, Amy's body was very decomposed. She 196 00:13:08,921 --> 00:13:12,241 Speaker 2: was dressed, but her sweatpants were inside out. This made 197 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: investigators belief it was likely that she was sexually assaulted, 198 00:13:16,321 --> 00:13:19,521 Speaker 2: but unfortunately, her body had been out in the elements 199 00:13:19,521 --> 00:13:22,361 Speaker 2: for way too long for some kinds of sexual assault 200 00:13:22,441 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: testing to be effective, so they didn't know for sure. 201 00:13:27,321 --> 00:13:30,241 Speaker 2: There were signs that Amy may have been kept alive 202 00:13:30,361 --> 00:13:33,441 Speaker 2: for at least a few hours after her abduction, although 203 00:13:33,801 --> 00:13:38,081 Speaker 2: it's not conclusive proof. The coroner's report found substances in 204 00:13:38,121 --> 00:13:41,241 Speaker 2: her stomach. They were able to conclude that Amy's last 205 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,401 Speaker 2: meal was something soy based, possibly in art official chicken 206 00:13:44,441 --> 00:13:48,321 Speaker 2: product or Chinese food. I wonder could she have gotten 207 00:13:48,321 --> 00:13:50,881 Speaker 2: the food from the mall food court or could her 208 00:13:50,961 --> 00:13:53,801 Speaker 2: killer have gotten it. Could they have kept her somewhere 209 00:13:53,841 --> 00:13:57,361 Speaker 2: else alive for a period of time, or maybe bought 210 00:13:57,401 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 2: takeout food and brought it to her. There was no 211 00:14:00,081 --> 00:14:04,321 Speaker 2: way to know for sure. Several hundred yards away from 212 00:14:04,321 --> 00:14:08,441 Speaker 2: Amy's body, investigators found a curtain and a blanket that 213 00:14:08,481 --> 00:14:10,001 Speaker 2: were sent in for forensic testing. 214 00:14:11,001 --> 00:14:12,641 Speaker 3: The forensic testing team. 215 00:14:12,441 --> 00:14:16,041 Speaker 2: Found yellow gold fibers on Amy's body. There were also 216 00:14:16,121 --> 00:14:19,201 Speaker 2: some things that were missing. Her black studded boots that 217 00:14:19,241 --> 00:14:22,561 Speaker 2: she wore for horse riding were missing, and investigators never 218 00:14:22,641 --> 00:14:25,081 Speaker 2: found the other items that Amy had been carrying that day, 219 00:14:25,481 --> 00:14:29,561 Speaker 2: including her denim backpack, her black binder with Bwick Best 220 00:14:29,641 --> 00:14:33,321 Speaker 2: in Class written on it, and some very unique turquoise 221 00:14:33,361 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 2: earrings that she was wearing. They were shaped like little horseheads. 222 00:14:38,401 --> 00:14:41,761 Speaker 2: Police considered the possibility that Amy's killer had taken these 223 00:14:41,801 --> 00:14:45,081 Speaker 2: items and either ditched them or kept them as a souvenir. 224 00:14:46,401 --> 00:14:50,001 Speaker 2: Police were trying to figure out the caller's origins. They 225 00:14:50,001 --> 00:14:54,001 Speaker 2: were also investigating every possible connection to Amy or Margaret, 226 00:14:54,041 --> 00:14:58,001 Speaker 2: since Margaret was mentioned in the call trading time said 227 00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,761 Speaker 2: Margaret had not gotten a promotion. The only thing that 228 00:15:00,761 --> 00:15:03,001 Speaker 2: had happened recently with her work schedule was that she 229 00:15:03,001 --> 00:15:06,481 Speaker 2: had gone from part time to full time. Police also 230 00:15:06,601 --> 00:15:10,881 Speaker 2: explored connections with Holly Hill Farms, where Amy rode horses. 231 00:15:10,481 --> 00:15:11,601 Speaker 3: And spent a lot of time. 232 00:15:12,641 --> 00:15:14,801 Speaker 2: One of the young women who got a call similar 233 00:15:14,881 --> 00:15:18,281 Speaker 2: to the one Amy got months before she disappeared, reported 234 00:15:18,281 --> 00:15:21,641 Speaker 2: the incident to police. The FBI came to her house, 235 00:15:21,681 --> 00:15:24,601 Speaker 2: and they found out this girl, like Amy, was a 236 00:15:24,681 --> 00:15:29,561 Speaker 2: regular at holly Hill Farms. There was a documentary called 237 00:15:29,681 --> 00:15:33,321 Speaker 2: The Lake Erie Murders on Investigation Discovery, and there were 238 00:15:33,361 --> 00:15:37,561 Speaker 2: three episodes in that series about Amy's case. They interviewed 239 00:15:37,561 --> 00:15:40,201 Speaker 2: someone else, a woman who was ten years old at 240 00:15:40,201 --> 00:15:44,521 Speaker 2: the time Amy disappeared. She told ID few weeks before 241 00:15:44,601 --> 00:15:47,681 Speaker 2: Amy disappeared, she got a similar phone call to the 242 00:15:47,681 --> 00:15:51,561 Speaker 2: one Amy got. She said, someone identifying themselves as her 243 00:15:51,561 --> 00:15:56,801 Speaker 2: mom's boss called her and mentioned them buying a secret gift. Apparently, 244 00:15:56,881 --> 00:15:59,281 Speaker 2: she asked her mother about it, and her mother kind 245 00:15:59,281 --> 00:16:02,321 Speaker 2: of shut the whole thing down, so she never attempted 246 00:16:02,321 --> 00:16:05,401 Speaker 2: to meet up with the caller, and that caller was 247 00:16:05,401 --> 00:16:10,481 Speaker 2: apparently never found When detectives were investigating the girls who 248 00:16:10,481 --> 00:16:14,481 Speaker 2: got calls mainly in the summer before Amy disappeared, they 249 00:16:14,601 --> 00:16:17,321 Speaker 2: found that there was one place they all had in common. 250 00:16:17,761 --> 00:16:21,201 Speaker 2: They had all apparently been to the Lake Erie Nature 251 00:16:21,241 --> 00:16:25,841 Speaker 2: and Science Center in Bay Village. Police said that the 252 00:16:25,921 --> 00:16:29,201 Speaker 2: location had a paper log book where visitors could write 253 00:16:29,241 --> 00:16:32,121 Speaker 2: down their names and addresses. So one theory they had 254 00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:35,001 Speaker 2: was maybe someone involved with the center, a volunteer or 255 00:16:35,001 --> 00:16:38,481 Speaker 2: an employee, or possibly just a visitor, got the girl's 256 00:16:38,521 --> 00:16:43,241 Speaker 2: phone numbers from inside that logbook. Police looked for the logbook, 257 00:16:43,481 --> 00:16:47,361 Speaker 2: but it was gone and investigators were never able to 258 00:16:47,401 --> 00:16:53,481 Speaker 2: find that logbook. Over the years, police interviewed Amy's friends 259 00:16:53,481 --> 00:16:54,201 Speaker 2: several times. 260 00:16:54,281 --> 00:16:56,081 Speaker 3: They ran down a lot of leads. 261 00:16:56,561 --> 00:17:00,561 Speaker 2: Of course, they asked about Amy's parents' relationships, about her parents' 262 00:17:00,561 --> 00:17:03,841 Speaker 2: friends they're male friends, Amy's father and her friend's father's 263 00:17:04,201 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 2: They found nothing conclusive. There were a lot of names 264 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 2: mentioned in connection with Amy's case over the years, a 265 00:17:11,961 --> 00:17:15,881 Speaker 2: lot of false starts and red herrings. The jogger who 266 00:17:15,921 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: found Amy's body mentioned a weird guy who lived on 267 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,321 Speaker 2: her street, but there was no evidence that he was 268 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: ever connected to Amy's case, and in my opinion that 269 00:17:25,521 --> 00:17:26,401 Speaker 2: was part of the problem. 270 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 3: It seemed like everyone. 271 00:17:28,521 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: Knew a weird guy who lived on their street, which 272 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: was a challenge for the police. Another early suspect mentioned 273 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,041 Speaker 2: by the FBI profiler Robert Wrestler, was Billy Strunak, a 274 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,481 Speaker 2: man who had stalked a waitress in nineteen eighty three. 275 00:17:44,161 --> 00:17:47,241 Speaker 2: Police became interested in him as a potential suspect in 276 00:17:47,281 --> 00:17:50,921 Speaker 2: Amy's case in nineteen eighty nine. Apparently the reason why 277 00:17:50,961 --> 00:17:54,641 Speaker 2: police were suspicious was Billy's criminal past and his behavior. 278 00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:58,561 Speaker 2: They say that Billy volunteered, that he inserted himself into 279 00:17:58,601 --> 00:18:01,481 Speaker 2: the investigation, that he was trying to cozy up to 280 00:18:01,561 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: Margaret after Amy's disappearance, and even offered to clean her house. 281 00:18:08,041 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: Thirteen days after Amy's body was found, Billy took his 282 00:18:11,681 --> 00:18:17,001 Speaker 2: own life by drinking dry gas and soda. Police said 283 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,721 Speaker 2: after his death they searched his residence. They said they 284 00:18:19,721 --> 00:18:23,241 Speaker 2: found zero evidence that would link him to Amy. They said, 285 00:18:23,401 --> 00:18:26,241 Speaker 2: on the contrary, his suicide note referred to problems at 286 00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:29,481 Speaker 2: work and depression. They said there was nothing there referring 287 00:18:29,481 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 2: to Amy at all, so that lead turned into a 288 00:18:32,961 --> 00:18:37,801 Speaker 2: dead end. Police also continued to explore connections with Holly 289 00:18:37,881 --> 00:18:41,521 Speaker 2: Hill Farms, especially once they found out one of the 290 00:18:41,561 --> 00:18:43,961 Speaker 2: other girls who got one of these weird phone calls 291 00:18:44,041 --> 00:18:47,281 Speaker 2: was also a regular at Hollyhill Farms. One man the 292 00:18:47,321 --> 00:18:50,121 Speaker 2: FBI talked to was a caretaker there, a man named 293 00:18:50,121 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: Harold Bound. He lived on the property. His parents owned 294 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,601 Speaker 2: the stables, but apparently they were out of town when 295 00:18:56,601 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 2: Amy went missing. 296 00:18:58,241 --> 00:19:01,561 Speaker 3: Harold was cooperative. He allowed investigators to search his apartment 297 00:19:01,721 --> 00:19:03,161 Speaker 3: and the whole farm. 298 00:19:03,441 --> 00:19:06,361 Speaker 2: Harold was described as a loaner and a Vietnam veteran. 299 00:19:06,921 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: He had a habit of striking up conversations with some 300 00:19:09,641 --> 00:19:12,441 Speaker 2: of the girls who rode horses at the stable. Some 301 00:19:12,521 --> 00:19:15,241 Speaker 2: of the parents told police they thought Harold was a 302 00:19:15,281 --> 00:19:20,121 Speaker 2: little bit weird and creepy. Harold requested polygraph tests. He 303 00:19:20,321 --> 00:19:24,801 Speaker 2: actually asked police to test him with sodium pentathal aka 304 00:19:24,881 --> 00:19:27,921 Speaker 2: truth serum, which, to be honest, is the first time 305 00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:31,681 Speaker 2: I've ever heard of anyone being interrogated like that voluntarily. 306 00:19:32,561 --> 00:19:35,041 Speaker 2: We don't know what the results were, but in the 307 00:19:35,161 --> 00:19:38,881 Speaker 2: end police did not pursue Harold as a suspect. He 308 00:19:39,001 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: was never arrested or charged with anything in connection with 309 00:19:43,201 --> 00:19:48,041 Speaker 2: Amy's Disas parents, police were also contacted by two girls 310 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,161 Speaker 2: in North Olmsted, which was a. 311 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,961 Speaker 3: Few miles from Bay Village. 312 00:19:52,041 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 2: They found out girls were getting calls there as well, 313 00:19:55,241 --> 00:19:58,321 Speaker 2: and some of the girls who got called had unlisted 314 00:19:58,321 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: phone numbers, So naturally, investigators wondered was this the same 315 00:20:03,161 --> 00:20:06,961 Speaker 2: caller who called Amy and how did the caller get 316 00:20:07,001 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: all of their numbers. Over the years, police considered several suspects. 317 00:20:12,361 --> 00:20:15,001 Speaker 2: One was a man named Kenneth Ray Stanton. He was 318 00:20:15,041 --> 00:20:18,561 Speaker 2: a traveling salesman and serial child molester. His mo was 319 00:20:18,601 --> 00:20:21,961 Speaker 2: to find victims in upper middle class, largely white neighborhoods. 320 00:20:22,401 --> 00:20:24,161 Speaker 3: He would choose holmes where. 321 00:20:23,961 --> 00:20:26,481 Speaker 2: The victim, a young girl between the ages of seven 322 00:20:26,481 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: and twelve, was home alone. Kenneth appeared clean cut, normally 323 00:20:30,881 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: he wore suits, and he was capable of being charming, 324 00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:36,521 Speaker 2: at least charming enough to convince his victims to let 325 00:20:36,561 --> 00:20:39,641 Speaker 2: them into the home. Sometimes he posed as a police 326 00:20:39,641 --> 00:20:44,441 Speaker 2: officer or food safety inspector. Kenneth did looked like the 327 00:20:44,481 --> 00:20:49,281 Speaker 2: composite sketch. Investigators say they believe Kenneth was in Ohio 328 00:20:49,401 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: at the time when Amy disappeared. The FBI were hunting 329 00:20:52,601 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: for him. In December of nineteen eighty nine. His abandoned 330 00:20:55,641 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 2: car was found in Perrysburg, Ohio. Kenneth's case was featured 331 00:20:59,881 --> 00:21:02,881 Speaker 2: on America's Most Wanted, and minutes after the episode aired, 332 00:21:03,401 --> 00:21:05,921 Speaker 2: multiple people called in to say that Kenneth was living 333 00:21:05,921 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 2: in Moraine, Ohio with his wife. That's about three hours 334 00:21:09,161 --> 00:21:13,681 Speaker 2: from Bay Village, where Amy lived. After the episode aired, 335 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,841 Speaker 2: Kenneth fled the area. Police eventually tracked him down at 336 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,681 Speaker 2: a motel in rock Hill, South Carolina, where he had 337 00:21:20,721 --> 00:21:24,601 Speaker 2: molested another young girl. Kenneth pleaded guilty to the molestation 338 00:21:24,721 --> 00:21:29,521 Speaker 2: charges and was sentenced to sixty years in prison. Investigators 339 00:21:29,561 --> 00:21:32,481 Speaker 2: have confirmed they did consider Kenneth mainly due to the 340 00:21:32,521 --> 00:21:36,081 Speaker 2: possible proximity to Amy, but later stated they did not 341 00:21:36,121 --> 00:21:39,561 Speaker 2: believe he was their suspect. Kenneth died in prison on 342 00:21:39,681 --> 00:21:48,681 Speaker 2: August twentieth, twenty eleven years past and police hit many 343 00:21:48,761 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: dead ends. Amy's family still had no answers and it 344 00:21:53,121 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: was weighing on them. Jason shared his thoughts on how 345 00:21:56,921 --> 00:21:59,641 Speaker 2: hard he believed the police worked on the case. 346 00:22:00,481 --> 00:22:03,041 Speaker 4: They never let Amy's case rest a single day. They've 347 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,321 Speaker 4: continuously worked on it the pride of DNA and even 348 00:22:06,401 --> 00:22:08,801 Speaker 4: take tundles of hair way back in the eighties when 349 00:22:08,881 --> 00:22:12,281 Speaker 4: nobody had heard of anything like that. It's always very 350 00:22:12,321 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 4: humbling to me to be have my sister remembered so 351 00:22:16,241 --> 00:22:19,321 Speaker 4: long after it's actually happened. It's been, at least for me, 352 00:22:19,361 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 4: a very touching and humbling experience to go, hey, you know, 353 00:22:22,401 --> 00:22:26,441 Speaker 4: the community at large, including most of America, really loved 354 00:22:26,481 --> 00:22:29,641 Speaker 4: my sister. And we're not I mean, it sounds terrible. 355 00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 4: We're not in any special We're just we're just a 356 00:22:32,961 --> 00:22:37,281 Speaker 4: couple of kids from Suburbia, a mobile family that went 357 00:22:37,401 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 4: through the same thing everyone else does. 358 00:22:45,521 --> 00:22:50,281 Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, a retired investigator named Phil Torsney announced 359 00:22:50,281 --> 00:22:52,201 Speaker 2: that he would be coming out of retirement to work 360 00:22:52,241 --> 00:22:55,801 Speaker 2: on Amy's case. Phil assisted the FBI in catching the 361 00:22:55,801 --> 00:22:59,001 Speaker 2: mobster Whitey Bulger. Whitey was on the run for years 362 00:22:59,321 --> 00:23:01,681 Speaker 2: and spent a lot of time on the FBI's ten 363 00:23:01,721 --> 00:23:05,721 Speaker 2: most wanted list. Phil told reporters he didn't believe that 364 00:23:05,761 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: Amy's killer had come from her immediate area. Instead, he 365 00:23:09,761 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: believed the killer was more likely to have ties to 366 00:23:12,481 --> 00:23:15,801 Speaker 2: Ashland County, to the area where Amy's body was found. 367 00:23:16,601 --> 00:23:18,761 Speaker 3: Phil described Amy's hometown as. 368 00:23:18,721 --> 00:23:21,841 Speaker 2: Quote two dents too close knit to be a likely 369 00:23:21,881 --> 00:23:22,801 Speaker 2: place to commit. 370 00:23:22,681 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 3: Murder end quote. 371 00:23:24,521 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 2: In March of twenty fourteen, the FBI announced a twenty 372 00:23:28,401 --> 00:23:31,401 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars reward for any information that would help 373 00:23:31,521 --> 00:23:36,401 Speaker 2: lead to Amy's killer or killers. In twenty sixteen, police 374 00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 2: announced they had done testing on the blanket and curtain 375 00:23:39,561 --> 00:23:43,041 Speaker 2: that were found near Amy's body. They found dog hares 376 00:23:44,121 --> 00:23:48,401 Speaker 2: they said were similar to Amy's dog, So detectives believe 377 00:23:48,561 --> 00:23:51,961 Speaker 2: it's very possible that the hairs on that curtain did 378 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,321 Speaker 2: belong to Amy's dog and that somehow they were transferred 379 00:23:55,321 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: from her clothing to that curtain, meaning that the curtain 380 00:23:58,961 --> 00:24:02,241 Speaker 2: that was found near the body was what Amy's killer 381 00:24:02,241 --> 00:24:04,481 Speaker 2: had used to wrap her in and dump her body. 382 00:24:05,481 --> 00:24:09,801 Speaker 2: The curtain itself is unusual. Police continue to release photos 383 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 2: of that curtain in hopes that someone might recognize it. 384 00:24:13,041 --> 00:24:16,321 Speaker 2: They believed that it could be a crucial clue. The 385 00:24:16,401 --> 00:24:20,081 Speaker 2: curtain actually looks like something someone sewed at home. It's 386 00:24:20,121 --> 00:24:23,761 Speaker 2: a dark green beige color. The tabs on the top 387 00:24:23,881 --> 00:24:27,721 Speaker 2: are not equal distance apart. Police want to find out 388 00:24:27,881 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 2: where the curtain was before it was found near Amy. 389 00:24:31,441 --> 00:24:34,001 Speaker 2: If it was in the killer's house, They hope that 390 00:24:34,041 --> 00:24:36,841 Speaker 2: it may have DNA evidence that can be tested. At 391 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,401 Speaker 2: some point, James told us he thought the police had 392 00:24:41,441 --> 00:24:44,441 Speaker 2: done a very thorough and good job. He pointed out 393 00:24:44,481 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: they followed a ton of leads and most importantly, had 394 00:24:48,281 --> 00:24:51,561 Speaker 2: carefully collected all kinds of DNA from the crime scene, 395 00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:53,041 Speaker 2: years before. 396 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,001 Speaker 3: Some kinds of DNA testing were available. 397 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,321 Speaker 2: The vials of hair and clothing were carefully sealed in 398 00:24:59,401 --> 00:25:02,761 Speaker 2: the crime lab. And since we hear about so many 399 00:25:02,801 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 2: cases on this podcast where evidence is lost or destroyed, 400 00:25:06,321 --> 00:25:09,681 Speaker 2: it's actually so refreshing to hear about a police department 401 00:25:10,161 --> 00:25:14,001 Speaker 2: taking the proper steps to preserve evidence and actually having 402 00:25:14,161 --> 00:25:18,721 Speaker 2: the foresight to preserve that evidence. But even with the 403 00:25:18,721 --> 00:25:22,761 Speaker 2: evidence preserved after the initial investigation, police were left for 404 00:25:22,801 --> 00:25:27,441 Speaker 2: many years without a sole, viable suspect. They did interview 405 00:25:27,561 --> 00:25:30,281 Speaker 2: hundreds of people they followed up on tips and rumors, 406 00:25:30,321 --> 00:25:34,161 Speaker 2: including a pedophile ring and an identity thief, but all 407 00:25:34,201 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: of these leads were dropped or ruled out. In twenty 408 00:25:39,201 --> 00:25:42,801 Speaker 2: twenty one, right around the thirty first anniversary of Amy's 409 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,921 Speaker 2: remains being found, police stated they had another person of interest, 410 00:25:47,241 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 2: a sixty four year old man whose former girlfriend had told. 411 00:25:50,281 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: Them she believed he had been involved in the killing. 412 00:25:53,321 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: According to news reports, she told police she suspected this 413 00:25:56,961 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: man because he was not at home when Amy went missing. 414 00:26:00,281 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: He lived close to where Amy was kidnapped, and he 415 00:26:03,481 --> 00:26:05,681 Speaker 2: reportedly had a niece who was in the same grade 416 00:26:05,681 --> 00:26:09,201 Speaker 2: as Amy. Police interviewed the man and it was reported 417 00:26:09,201 --> 00:26:13,001 Speaker 2: that he made suspicious statements. Law enforcement also revealed this 418 00:26:13,121 --> 00:26:16,041 Speaker 2: man had been picked out by a witness out of 419 00:26:16,041 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: a lineup in May of twenty twenty. 420 00:26:18,681 --> 00:26:20,441 Speaker 3: Police also said the man. 421 00:26:20,281 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 2: Drove a car at the time of Amy's abduction that 422 00:26:23,201 --> 00:26:26,161 Speaker 2: was similar to the ones seen by witness on February eighth, 423 00:26:26,241 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety when Amy's body was found. But since twenty 424 00:26:30,401 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: twenty one, no more information has been released and there 425 00:26:34,121 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: has been no arrest. Jason said Amy's case had a 426 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,201 Speaker 2: massive impact on the family over the years. He said 427 00:26:43,241 --> 00:26:47,521 Speaker 2: his parents never really got over her abduction. Margaret and 428 00:26:47,561 --> 00:26:50,321 Speaker 2: Mark had already been having problems in their marriage before 429 00:26:50,361 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: Amy's disappearance, but after she went missing, the marriage never recovered. 430 00:26:55,921 --> 00:26:59,681 Speaker 2: They divorced in nineteen ninety one. Mark remarried a woman 431 00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:01,921 Speaker 2: who's been married to for the past twenty five years, 432 00:27:02,441 --> 00:27:07,201 Speaker 2: so James had a new stepbrother and stepmom. Margaret moved 433 00:27:07,241 --> 00:27:10,241 Speaker 2: away from the area, eventually ending up in Las Vegas. 434 00:27:10,721 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: She went on talk shows and continued to do media. 435 00:27:14,321 --> 00:27:17,281 Speaker 2: She was begging the public for any tips that could 436 00:27:17,361 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 2: lead to her daughter's safe return. Margaret died in her 437 00:27:21,481 --> 00:27:24,761 Speaker 2: apartment in Las Vegas in two thousand and one. According 438 00:27:24,761 --> 00:27:27,281 Speaker 2: to an autopsy report, the cause of her death was 439 00:27:27,361 --> 00:27:29,441 Speaker 2: complications from chronic alcoholism. 440 00:27:30,361 --> 00:27:31,841 Speaker 3: James says he's. 441 00:27:31,721 --> 00:27:35,561 Speaker 2: Humbled by how many people remember Amy's story and keep 442 00:27:35,601 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 2: her memory alive and the massive impact she's had on 443 00:27:39,161 --> 00:27:39,801 Speaker 2: the community. 444 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 4: Well, again, it's always very humbly when she remembered. I 445 00:27:43,201 --> 00:27:46,241 Speaker 4: mean this is not quite forty years ago, and still 446 00:27:46,401 --> 00:27:49,961 Speaker 4: she's very much into the news and forefront and on 447 00:27:49,961 --> 00:27:53,161 Speaker 4: people's minds. And that's amazing to think that she had 448 00:27:53,161 --> 00:27:56,001 Speaker 4: that much impact, and you know, the effort for her 449 00:27:56,041 --> 00:27:59,521 Speaker 4: had that much impact as well. I would certainly caution 450 00:27:59,681 --> 00:28:03,401 Speaker 4: people to learn from some of those mistakes, like guard 451 00:28:03,441 --> 00:28:06,761 Speaker 4: your children and make sure they're safe and know who 452 00:28:06,761 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 4: they're talking to and why, and be that defense for 453 00:28:09,481 --> 00:28:13,761 Speaker 4: your children. I mean, my parents were just wasn't as forefront, 454 00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:16,801 Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't I don't know what to say. 455 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 4: It wasn't like they didn't really can get happened to them, 456 00:28:20,161 --> 00:28:23,481 Speaker 4: I guess at the point. And of course the calls 457 00:28:23,481 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 4: were happening in secret, so it wasn't like they were 458 00:28:25,241 --> 00:28:28,041 Speaker 4: letting them happen. And they were going on when nobody 459 00:28:28,001 --> 00:28:30,401 Speaker 4: else was home, which is part of the reason why 460 00:28:30,401 --> 00:28:32,801 Speaker 4: it was allowed to happen. So just being you know, 461 00:28:32,881 --> 00:28:36,641 Speaker 4: that hyper vigilance about keeping your kids faith and helping 462 00:28:36,681 --> 00:28:39,241 Speaker 4: them to reach their full potential. 463 00:28:43,321 --> 00:28:47,721 Speaker 2: In September of twenty twenty five, Amy's case made news again. 464 00:28:48,241 --> 00:28:51,641 Speaker 2: Police released a new composite sketch of a new person 465 00:28:51,641 --> 00:28:55,441 Speaker 2: of interest. He was described as around thirty five years old, 466 00:28:55,481 --> 00:28:59,041 Speaker 2: with fair skin, and as being someone who was standing 467 00:28:59,121 --> 00:29:02,561 Speaker 2: near a blue hatchback vehicle on the day Amy's body 468 00:29:02,641 --> 00:29:06,361 Speaker 2: was found. Police stated to News five Cleveland that the 469 00:29:06,401 --> 00:29:09,801 Speaker 2: witness had waited a year before coming forward with this information. 470 00:29:10,081 --> 00:29:13,481 Speaker 2: Apparently they didn't realize it could be important at the time. 471 00:29:14,361 --> 00:29:16,361 Speaker 3: We're going to be posting this composite. 472 00:29:15,961 --> 00:29:18,681 Speaker 2: Sketch, actually all of them, and also the missing items, 473 00:29:18,721 --> 00:29:21,881 Speaker 2: the black studded boots, the black buick case with gold clasp, 474 00:29:22,241 --> 00:29:25,881 Speaker 2: and the horse head shaped aquamarine earrings on Instagram at 475 00:29:26,001 --> 00:29:30,521 Speaker 2: Ellen Gompot. At the same time, police have said there 476 00:29:30,561 --> 00:29:33,841 Speaker 2: was very little physical evidence in the case, but that 477 00:29:33,961 --> 00:29:38,441 Speaker 2: may be changing with new technology. In April twenty twenty five, 478 00:29:38,881 --> 00:29:42,561 Speaker 2: it was reported that new DNA testing was being conducted 479 00:29:43,041 --> 00:29:45,321 Speaker 2: on hair that had been found on a curtain and 480 00:29:45,361 --> 00:29:48,521 Speaker 2: a blanket that Amy's body was dumped with. The FBI 481 00:29:48,721 --> 00:29:51,241 Speaker 2: was in the process of confirming that the hair was 482 00:29:51,281 --> 00:29:53,561 Speaker 2: not Amy's, and if it's not a match to Amy, 483 00:29:53,601 --> 00:29:57,241 Speaker 2: presumably they will try to find a match. Scientists told 484 00:29:57,361 --> 00:30:00,481 Speaker 2: nineteen News that DNA testing on evidence from the field 485 00:30:00,641 --> 00:30:04,601 Speaker 2: was being conducted. DNA labs in Deerfield Beach, Florida told 486 00:30:04,681 --> 00:30:09,041 Speaker 2: nineteen News they found DNA from a man on Amy's sweatpants, 487 00:30:09,161 --> 00:30:12,961 Speaker 2: the one she was found in, but sadly the sample 488 00:30:13,121 --> 00:30:16,681 Speaker 2: was too small to test it to identify suspect. But 489 00:30:16,721 --> 00:30:19,881 Speaker 2: the DNA lab is said they hope that new technology 490 00:30:19,881 --> 00:30:21,921 Speaker 2: coming out, possibly even by the end of the year, 491 00:30:22,481 --> 00:30:27,201 Speaker 2: could change that. Jason said that he thinks about Amy 492 00:30:27,241 --> 00:30:31,001 Speaker 2: a lot now that his own children are teenagers, and 493 00:30:31,401 --> 00:30:34,801 Speaker 2: he still has hope that whether it's a DNA breakthrough 494 00:30:34,961 --> 00:30:38,681 Speaker 2: or someone recognizing the horse earrings in a drawer or 495 00:30:38,881 --> 00:30:41,921 Speaker 2: some other item from a garage sale or some other 496 00:30:42,041 --> 00:30:45,961 Speaker 2: random occurrence. He he still has hope that Amy's killer 497 00:30:46,361 --> 00:30:47,561 Speaker 2: could be caught. 498 00:30:47,921 --> 00:30:50,401 Speaker 4: I know that there's a hole that nothing can kill 499 00:30:50,481 --> 00:30:53,001 Speaker 4: with Amy, and I would love to have seen what 500 00:30:53,081 --> 00:30:55,361 Speaker 4: she would have become and moms you were becoming in 501 00:30:55,441 --> 00:30:59,601 Speaker 4: her parenting style and whatnot. I have two mostly grown 502 00:30:59,681 --> 00:31:03,001 Speaker 4: children at this point. Mack nineteen, he's had a job. 503 00:31:03,041 --> 00:31:06,041 Speaker 4: He's busy making his way in the world. And Ethan 504 00:31:06,201 --> 00:31:09,881 Speaker 4: is sixteen, almost seventeen, and he got his first job. 505 00:31:09,961 --> 00:31:14,001 Speaker 4: And again, Amy's lives, even the impacted their lives. They 506 00:31:15,201 --> 00:31:17,521 Speaker 4: never met her, but they certainly have a memory of her, 507 00:31:17,521 --> 00:31:20,801 Speaker 4: if that makes sense, even keep alive in their generation 508 00:31:21,201 --> 00:31:24,521 Speaker 4: of what happened. And to be a beaconist to you know, 509 00:31:25,441 --> 00:31:29,041 Speaker 4: keeping your children safe and not talking to strangers, and 510 00:31:29,161 --> 00:31:31,681 Speaker 4: being aware of your surroundings as a young person, as 511 00:31:31,721 --> 00:31:34,321 Speaker 4: a child, like hey, people are not always out there 512 00:31:34,361 --> 00:31:38,321 Speaker 4: for your best interest. For whatever reason, Amy became in 513 00:31:38,401 --> 00:31:41,961 Speaker 4: many ways I think I don't want to say, is 514 00:31:42,121 --> 00:31:45,401 Speaker 4: like American's Sweethearts. It's uite afraid, but it became verson. 515 00:31:47,201 --> 00:31:50,881 Speaker 4: I can't ever say enough thank you for any of 516 00:31:50,921 --> 00:31:52,881 Speaker 4: that because it means. 517 00:31:52,681 --> 00:31:57,601 Speaker 2: A lot for me. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen 518 00:31:57,641 --> 00:32:01,641 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production 519 00:32:01,801 --> 00:32:05,041 Speaker 2: of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and 520 00:32:05,121 --> 00:32:08,881 Speaker 2: narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Etily's Perez 521 00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:12,441 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance and 522 00:32:12,561 --> 00:32:16,081 Speaker 2: James Wheaton for legal review. Noah camer mixed and scored 523 00:32:16,121 --> 00:32:20,081 Speaker 2: this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Salek. Executive 524 00:32:20,081 --> 00:32:23,241 Speaker 2: producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. 525 00:32:23,441 --> 00:32:23,841 Speaker 3: Crowley. 526 00:32:24,521 --> 00:32:27,041 Speaker 2: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the 527 00:32:27,041 --> 00:32:30,641 Speaker 2: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you 528 00:32:30,681 --> 00:32:33,361 Speaker 2: were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, 529 00:32:33,921 --> 00:32:37,321 Speaker 2: you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. 530 00:32:37,921 --> 00:32:39,881 Speaker 2: If you have a case she'd like me and my 531 00:32:39,921 --> 00:32:42,321 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 532 00:32:42,361 --> 00:32:44,801 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 533 00:32:44,921 --> 00:32:48,481 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 534 00:32:48,521 --> 00:32:51,601 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five. 535 00:32:56,761 --> 00:32:57,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans