1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: Doctor Lisa Miller is a PhD at New York's Times 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: best selling author, Columbia University professor, clinical psychologists and scientist. 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: She is leading the conversation about spiritual health, which is 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: the new horizon for whole person health. Doctor Lisa, I'm 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: so happy to have you here. I was just telling 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: you before the podcast, I can't think up a more 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: dreamlike conversation for me to combine psychology, spirituality and science 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: all in one. So thank you so much for being here. 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: Well, I'm so excited to join you, and I love 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: the place that you're creating in the heart of our 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 3: culture to really talk about what's true and deep in 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 3: the heart. Thank you. 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: So you've written a lot of books, You've done callless interviews. 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: I was deep diving on all your notes and all 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: your accolades. But I was just curious as I was 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: reading what drew you to go down this road of 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: even putting science, psychology, and spirituality all into one even 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: research project. 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: So you know, I started out as a practicing psychologist. 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: I was brand new right out of the PhD program, 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: and I was really seeking to see what was healing 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 3: in people. I wanted to know what was true and 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 3: healing in people. And what I saw to be totally 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 3: honest was that when we are really in our most 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: painful places, therapy without spirituality simply doesn't do a good 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: enough job that for most people. You know, there was 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 3: another round of suffering, there was another round of addiction 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 3: that we weren't getting out of the hole. And it 31 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: seemed to me that mental health without a spiritual core 32 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 3: was simply leaving people stranded. So I set out of 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: done now twenty five thirty years of science that examined 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: the deep spiritual nature of who we are and how 35 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 3: we recover and grow and change through suffering. That suffering 36 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: might even at times be a spiritual event, and when 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 3: we honor our deep spiritual nature, life unfolds totally differently. 38 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: So I came to science, and it's now been twenty 39 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: five thirty years of science because I saw a screaming 40 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 3: need of pain in us that wasn't addressed without honoring 41 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: our spiritual nature, without touching the spiritual core. 42 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: Well, I want to get into that. And I was 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: just thinking, as you were talking. I love that you're 44 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: actually using science also because I think a lot of 45 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: times in our culture, spirituality, or anytime I'm talking about 46 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: some of this stuff, I find that some of the 47 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: more scientific, logical minded people are kind of like, yeah, yeah, 48 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: but that's woo woo, you know, and they kind of 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: put it into this category that's separate from the tangible 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: things that you can prove scientifically the way that their 51 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: brain thinks. So I think it's really important to make 52 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: these two comparisons because it really opens up a whole 53 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: new world for more types of minds and brains and people. 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 3: So, Kelly, we now have a twenty five year glorious, rigorous, 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 3: pure review science in some of the best journals JAMMA Psychiatry, 56 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: American Journal of Psychiatry, and you name a journal of 57 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 3: Child adolescent Psychiatry that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt, 58 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: some very core, very revealing and you know, it's just 59 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: not making its way into our society truths about who 60 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: we really are. Can I share a few of them? 61 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: Yes? Please? 62 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 3: Okay, So the first that is just jaw dropping and 63 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: beautiful is that every single one of us, every one 64 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: of us, nobody's left out, is a naturally spiritual being. 65 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: We know this, It is a fact. How do we 66 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: know this? Scientists use a twin study. We look at 67 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 3: twins raised together and twins raised depart if we want 68 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: to find out whether any human capacity has an inborn 69 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: quality versus being totally environmentally formed. So, for instance, height 70 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: and weight obviously has a genetic component. Whether we're at 71 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: risk for diabetes or heart disease has a genetic component. 72 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: Our temperament, whether we're introverted or extroverted, whether we're a 73 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: little high strung early back, has a genetic component. The 74 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: capacity through which each and every one of us experienced 75 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 3: this spiritual life is inborn. There is a genetic component. 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: That means that no matter whether I am religious or not, 77 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: I am still a spiritual person. And that means that 78 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: whether my religion is Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Jane, 79 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 3: I am still a naturally spiritual person of the deep 80 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 3: common universal form. Religion are beautiful faith traditions. Right, whether 81 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: I'm Hindu or Muslim, or Christian or Jewish, whatever I 82 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: may be, religion is a beautiful gift of our parents 83 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 3: and grandparents. We might choose a tradition and immerse ourselves 84 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: through the lens of a twin study. Religion, our beautiful 85 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 3: texts and ceremonies is environmentally transmitted. Okay, it's one percent 86 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 3: environmently transmitted. Now, two thirds of people in the United 87 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: States say I am spiritual and I am religious. My 88 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: natural birthright of being a spiritual being on earth is 89 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: shaped for two thirds of Americans by our faith tradition. 90 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 3: I choose the prayers from Catholicism, Judaism, h I choose 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: the meditations to cultivate my natural spirituality. But whether or 92 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: not we are religious, we're all spiritual beings. And what 93 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: was extraordinary beautiful is that there is one deep, common 94 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: spiritual portal in every human being. Of course, there's one 95 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,119 Speaker 3: source of life, whatever you want to call it, God 96 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 3: has sheen Allah, the Big Bang, one source of life, 97 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: the universe, and then there's one common human portal. This 98 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 3: is suggestive that how we are built is to live 99 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 3: together and in our own lives on a spiritual path. Now, 100 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: because it's innate scientific finding. Two, there's a region in 101 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: the brain we have tracked in our MRI studies, the 102 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: neural circuitry that undergirds spiritual experience in all people again 103 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 3: seven point four seven point four spiritual beings on Earth, 104 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 3: human beings on Earth, seven point four spiritual brains. It's 105 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: simply the truth of who we are. That's the most 106 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: important finding from clinical science to be concrete, ironclad in 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: the past twenty years. And in the Awakened Brain, I 108 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: get into the weeds. You can pull up references on Google, 109 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: scholar or medline and the Awakened Brain everything is referenced. 110 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: But I share with you here in aggregate the take 111 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: home line that we need for ourselves to realize who 112 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: we are, and if we are a parent, it is 113 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: the most important thing we do for our children is 114 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: strengthen their birthright of natural spirituality, their own spiritual core. 115 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: Wow. I love combining science psychology. And then also you're 116 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: mentioning things like mriyes and actual tangible things that we're 117 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: looking at the brain and saying this is a need 118 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: like human bodies, human beings need this kind of thing, 119 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: and spiritual health is very important to our own overall health. 120 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: So could you explain to the listeners also what is 121 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: spiritual health. 122 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: Spiritual health is when we realize our deep, ongoing, transcendent 123 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 3: relationship with the deeper nature of life. That is loving, 124 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: that is guiding. We are an open system. We are 125 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 3: built to be an open system and a deep, sustained relationship. 126 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: My word is God. You could be universe or source, 127 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 3: untouched by source. It could be the beautiful name of 128 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: your faith tradition. I walk with Jesus. I feel the 129 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: presence of Hisham. I know God watches over me. Whatever 130 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 3: your word is, my word happens to be God. We 131 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 3: are built to be in a sustained relationship with our 132 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: higher power, and when we realize our true human nature, 133 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: we walk through life in a sustained dialogue with God. 134 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: That is spiritual health. The second piece that's equally important 135 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 3: is that we then see God's presence, the source of life, 136 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 3: in one another. Both are forms of relational spirituality. As 137 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,599 Speaker 3: I feel deeply in my heart a relationship with my 138 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: higher power, I feel that deep love towards you, You, my sister, 139 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: my brother, my fellow living being, little animals on earth. 140 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: Right, we're all connected. You see yourself and someone else, 141 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: all of those mentalities, so you see God, right, But 142 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: then you could go deeper and say we are God 143 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: and all of those things too. 144 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 3: Have this part of my morning prayer is May I 145 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 3: be you right, may see you? 146 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? 147 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 3: And I act you? 148 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. So if someone's listening and they're saying, okay, cool, 149 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: what you just explain what spiritual health is, then you 150 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 2: also talked about the part of our brain that needs it. 151 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: But why, like, why is this so important for life 152 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: here on earth? I can't see these things. I don't 153 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: you know, I don't have a tangible thing necessarily, So 154 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 2: why are you trying to tell me that I need this? Right? 155 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: Because your life is a grand, sacred quest. You are 156 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 3: the captain of the huge spiritual adventure. That's how we're built. 157 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: That's okay, what it is. We don't know what's coming 158 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 3: around the corner, and we don't need to. We're built 159 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: to be in a state of quest to say, what 160 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: is life showing me? Now? What is my higher power 161 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: asking of me? 162 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: Now? 163 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: What is being revealed to me? That is an open 164 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: system engaged with the guidance and the buoyancy of life itself. 165 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: It's a whole new way of journeying, which means we 166 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 3: don't need radical control. We don't need to know what's 167 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: coming tomorrow and have the perfect plan, which means that 168 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: everything that goes so called wrong isn't necessarily wrong. Just 169 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: because it's not what I'd planned or wanted doesn't mean 170 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 3: it's wrong. Not always. Why is this happening to me? 171 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: But why is this happening for me? Actually? Kelly, would 172 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: you be open perhaps to doing a practice? 173 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: Sure? 174 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 3: Okay, beautiful, Okay. This practice is called the road of life. 175 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: Okay. 176 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: I invite you to think of a time where you 177 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 3: really wanted something. You wanted it so badly. You wanted 178 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: him or her or them to say yes. You wanted 179 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 3: attention or love. You wanted to get into a school 180 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: or get a job, or get an internship. You wanted 181 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: that home or this for your child or that for 182 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 3: your child. You wanted them to make the team, you 183 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: wanted them to get into college. And you did everything 184 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: right to get that red door. You researched it, you 185 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: were tactical and strategic. A let's be let's see you 186 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: nailed it. You go for your red door because you've 187 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: planned it right. You grab the handle, but it's stuck, 188 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 3: and you can't believe it's stuck because you'd wanted it 189 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: so bad and you've done everything right. I mean, you 190 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 3: really wanted it and done everything beyond by the book 191 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: only because it is stuck. You might be angry, you 192 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 3: might kick this red door. You might be depressed, but 193 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: you do pivot, and you pivot eighty ninety one hundred 194 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: and ten degrees. Over there, over there is a glorious, 195 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: wide open yellow door. You didn't know yellow doors existed. 196 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: No one had ever spoken of yellow doors. On the 197 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,239 Speaker 3: other side of the shining yellow door is a job 198 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: where you feel alive. Is a mentor who sees in 199 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: you beyond what you knew in yourself. Is a synchronicity, 200 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 3: a turn of events that opens up a whole new 201 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 3: field of opportunity discovery. Is a partner that loves you 202 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: in a way you've never been loved. That yellow door 203 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: was not what you had thought you wanted. It was far, 204 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: far better and better for you. And now, as you 205 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: sit back and you look at that stuck red door 206 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: and the hairpin turn that took you to the wide 207 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: open yellow door, was there anyone there at that hairpin turn, 208 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 3: a trail angel pointing you to the yellow door. It 209 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: could have been a story told by a dear friend 210 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 3: who'd never confided before. It could have been a two 211 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 3: minute conversation at the coffee shop at a party. So 212 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: when you synchronistically met a trail angel pointing you to 213 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 3: the yellow door. So now sitting way back, stuck red 214 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: door hairpin turned trail angel to the wide open yellow door. 215 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: That has so much to do with the glorious life 216 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: you live today and who you really are. How are 217 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 3: the most important parts of our lives found? Is it 218 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: narrowly through planning? Sure, we have to do our part, 219 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 3: But are we less really makers of our lot and 220 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: more discovers of our journey? And where in your road 221 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: of life is your higher power? Is your higher power 222 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: in the wide open yellow door, and the stuck red 223 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: door is your higher power in the trail angel? And 224 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: you be an open system in deep dialogue with the 225 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: force that's through us and through life in us, through 226 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 3: us around us. Have you been on a spiritual path 227 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: all along? Oh? And I welcome you back. 228 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I just had so many memories flooding 229 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: through my brain and it was it's interesting, And I'll 230 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: tell the listeners a little bit about what was just 231 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: happening for me. But you and I were speaking before 232 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: the podcast, and you asked me about spirituality just in 233 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: my life in general, like what that had looked like. 234 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: And I told you I grew up in a Christian household. 235 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: Then as I got older, religion, it's not that I 236 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: don't believe in those things anymore. It's just evolved for me. 237 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: It's kind of expanded and there's a lot more to it, 238 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: I would say, And it's because of some of the 239 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: journeys I've been on. But one of the main things 240 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: in my adult life, like, I was engaged at one 241 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: point and I thought, Okay, this is the right thing. 242 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: I think I was nine, and it felt like the 243 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: right time. I had done my dude diligence, all the 244 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: things you were just talking about in this thing. And 245 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: then I found out three months before my wedding he 246 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: had been cheating the whole entire relationship. And my listeners 247 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: know most of the story. But but the thing is 248 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: is when I tell that story now, I don't feel 249 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: the pain of what that felt like at the time. 250 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: It was such a gift now I look at it 251 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: now because what happened for me when I got turned 252 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 2: away from that red door is I did get turned 253 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: to the yellow door, and like the spiritual experience that 254 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: started for me in that moment of even finding that 255 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: out and being in the soul crushing pain that I 256 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: was feeling, that was that was just the beginning. It 257 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: was what opened me up to where I am now. 258 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: And of course there's been other hardships along the way, 259 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: but I would have never started down that path had 260 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: that red door not slam shut and had my higher 261 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: power just like guided me gently, like, hey, look, look 262 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: there's so much more over here, Like you actually deserve 263 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: more than that, actually have a whole world to walk 264 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: into that's so much more open than that. I don't know. 265 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: And so now it's just like hearing your story with 266 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: that and that meditation I was just doing, I was thinking, God, 267 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: that's so right. It's just reminding me of all the 268 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: painful experiences. Not to dismiss any pain because they were. 269 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: They were fucking brutal, I'll be honest, but they they 270 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: do they open you up and do a whole new 271 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: experience and it's so much better. It really is. 272 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: Well, and you said so beautifully, Kelly, soul crushing pain, 273 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: It is a soul crushing, soul crushing that actually is 274 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: the initial phase of an awakening, much bigger life. So 275 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 3: the thing we thought we wanted so much would have 276 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: brought forth a life that was too small for us. 277 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: And I know that in a narcissistic sense. Yeah, smaller 278 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: than someone else. Yeah, for us in our path, it 279 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 3: would have been a cage. Yeah. Why because the thing 280 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: we think, oh, I need to have it, that red 281 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 3: door so much. That is all based on information today backwards, 282 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: it's all historical. Maybe what I thought I wanted when 283 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 3: I was seven, when I saw the women around me, 284 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 3: when I was thinking what my parents said would be 285 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 3: so great for me. And when the red door is stuck, 286 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: that guidance you said you felt God's presence, your higher 287 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 3: power guiding you forward, that guidance, that high pixel hit 288 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 3: in the heart. That really almost like being buoyant on 289 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 3: the sea, being pulled forward. That knowing is taking us 290 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 3: somewhere with information that has yet to unfold. That's information, 291 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: enormously powerful, life giving, liberating information that we have yet 292 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 3: to see before us. But it's already there. 293 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 2: Well, And as you're speaking, I'm just thinking about what 294 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier about the brain, So is there. I 295 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 2: kind of want to talk about mental health with spirituality 296 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: and the reason I'm making that connection right now, and 297 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: then going into the brain. Piece of it is, when 298 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: we're talking about this part of my journey, I couldn't 299 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: see that there was any positive. It was just so painful, 300 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: like I said, and you know, everyone would say, oh, 301 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: better to find out now, and you know all the 302 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 2: little things we all say to each other. But on 303 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: a deeper level, I knew it was kind of like 304 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: a bottom, I would say, and a shakeup and a 305 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: time for me to go, okay, if I am not 306 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: on the right path for me, what have I missed? 307 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: And why am I being misguided? And there was no connection. 308 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: But what was happening with my brain was I was 309 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 2: in so much pain that I also was trying to 310 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 2: make steps to avoid any more pain, if that makes sense. 311 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 2: So the next little bit of the journey was a 312 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: lot of like wobbling and kind of like testing something out. 313 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 2: I guess my question for you would be, when we 314 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 2: have these spiritual awakenings and experiences, how do we then 315 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: take care of our brain to be able to move 316 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: forward and to be able to tap into something spiritually 317 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: to where you can get to the place of where 318 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 2: I'm saying now I look back and go, well, that 319 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: was actually a gift, like what's the science there? 320 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: So Kelly in the awakened Brain, I share my deepest, 321 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 3: darkest moment. I was struggling my husband, and I was 322 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 3: five years of not conceiving a child. I mean, I'd 323 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 3: been to all the best doctors up and down the 324 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: East Coast. I'd been to the people who invented in vitro. 325 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with him. 326 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 3: But no little soul was landing. Wow, he was coming. 327 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 3: And each year we just got more and more depressed. 328 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 3: I mean, I couldn't even go to a baby shower. 329 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 3: It was too Yeah, and in the darkest, most excruciating moment, 330 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 3: I remember it to this day. We'd just been to 331 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: the people who had invented in vitro. I came home 332 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 3: and I just knew in my deep inner wisdom this 333 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: haunting feeling that this little embryo hadn't stuck. Every time 334 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: a little embryo, it felt like going to a funeral, 335 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: like this tiny little possibility had died, this tiny little 336 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 3: spirit had died. It was horrifying, It was so painful. 337 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: It was really like going to a family funeral. Yeah, 338 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: So I'm walking got out of the car, walking up 339 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: the steps to our home, and there right on the 340 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 3: front step of our home. Never in the years before, 341 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 3: never in the twenty five years since, just that day. 342 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 3: It was a tiny little something. I couldn't figure out 343 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 3: what it was. It was sort of like a smear, glassy, 344 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 3: and I looked over and it was a dead embryo. 345 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 3: It was a dead duck embryo, dead on my step. 346 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: That is synchronicity there. I would be the worst scientist 347 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: in the world to ignore that. I just had a 348 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 3: failed in vitro. As I sensed in my heart, I 349 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: feared this was not going to take. This little embryo. 350 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 3: And there's a dead embryo on my front step. It 351 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: wasn't even on the side on the driveway, and it 352 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 3: wasn't the day before, and it wasn't any day in 353 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 3: the twenty five years after. Any scientists would have to say, 354 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 3: far too unprobabilistic to have happened by chance. There's a 355 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 3: guidance laid in my path, so I know, and I'm depressed. 356 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 3: I mean, it's clear what that means. And I walk 357 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 3: in the house, I'm like, Oh, this little embryo is 358 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: not going to take. I was so depressed I would 359 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 3: go to bed in the middle of the day, wine 360 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: there and I didn't even I felt bad to show 361 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 3: my husband this despair. I didn't want to bring him down. 362 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: I didn't want to let him know it wasn't going 363 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: to take Why should suffered three more days? So I 364 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 3: go to my office and I lie down on the 365 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 3: couch in my office. In the middle of my nap, 366 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 3: I hear there's a knock at my sliding glass door. 367 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 3: Can I get up? And I can't believe it. The 368 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: mother duck has come up the porch to my door. 369 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 3: I pull back the door and she's brought me a 370 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 3: little juicy worm, the most wonderful delicacy in the world 371 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 3: to her. So she knew, See, all living beans know 372 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: what's going on, just like our dogs and cats know 373 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: what's going on. All living beans happened to the unit 374 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 3: of reality, tap into the single consciousness field, and she knew. 375 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: So she and I were both non mothers that day, 376 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: and the pain in my heart. Perhaps she felt too 377 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: because she had lost her little embryo. But she was 378 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: comforting me. She was comforting me. I mean, what had 379 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: I done for her? Right? She was comforting me. And 380 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 3: what I realized was that even when we absolutely do 381 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 3: not get what we wanted. I really wanted to conceive 382 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 3: and I really want to conceive that round of IVF 383 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 3: after years and years of struggle. We're not alone. We 384 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 3: are absolutely not alone. We are loved. We are completely loved, 385 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 3: and we are even guided. So on the day that 386 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 3: the worst thing happens and I don't get what I want, 387 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: or I lose someone I love, or the baby isn't born, 388 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: we are not alone. We are loved, and we are guided. 389 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 3: We are showing up for each other. And Kelly, I 390 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 3: can tell you one hundred stories in our extraordinarily painful 391 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: struggle with infertility where people just showed up. There's a 392 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 3: pivotal moment where I've just had another failed in vitro 393 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: and I can't believe it, and I can't get to 394 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 3: work on time. I'm so depressed. And finally, at about 395 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 3: eleven o'clock, I get on the bus and I'm going 396 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: up to Columbia, and suddenly we stopped in the middle 397 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 3: of the day. The bus is quite empty, and a 398 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 3: gentleman gets on, who's quite usual gentleman, and he's walking 399 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 3: towards me. And I just didn't have a lot of generosity, 400 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: a lot of energy that day, and I thought, oh no, 401 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 3: he's not walking walking down the bus past all the empty, 402 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 3: shiny empty chairs to me. Are you kidding me? Like 403 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 3: I'm the worst I've ever been? You know? So I'm 404 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 3: just like, be politely, polite, be playing. He plops down 405 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 3: one seat away from me. Gentleman leans over, quite unusual 406 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: gentleman and says, you know what, lady, you look like 407 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 3: an awfully nice lady. In fact, you look like just 408 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 3: that type of lady that would go all around the 409 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: world adopting kids. He smiled and Kelly at the next 410 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 3: stop he got off. Who rides a bus for one stop? 411 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: Able body, gentleman? What a blessing? Who is he? He's 412 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 3: a trail angel. He's a trail angel. And you can 413 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: think was he did he? Was he sort of mystically incarnated? 414 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 3: Was he a guy inspired to take the guidance from God? 415 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: I don't know the full backstory, but he was absolutely 416 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: a trail angel. So this is when we even are 417 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: in our worst moment, in the moment of despair, the 418 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 3: pocket of real pain. The synchronicity is that God lays 419 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 3: before us our higher power, show that we are loved, 420 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 3: We are guided, and we are never alone. The worst 421 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 3: struggle is never alone. 422 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: It's we were talking a little bit before the podcast 423 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: about you know, the more I've gone into my spiritual 424 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: journey as well, and the more I've researched even different religions, 425 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: I just love learning about what other people, what's inspiring 426 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: other people, what they're studying, what means something to them. 427 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: And the more I've gotten into it, the more I'm like, 428 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: wait a second, All religions are kind of saying the 429 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: same thing, really, and it's really interesting because we all 430 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: want to say that like it's this one that's the 431 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: right way, or you know, like if you we don't 432 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: do it this way whatever, and it's like, no, actually, 433 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 2: if we really come together, take away the names, we're 434 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: all saying pretty much the same thing. And one of 435 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: the main ways I've learned that is in twelve Step recovery, 436 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: and so what you were just saying it just sparked 437 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: something in that as well, because the reason I think 438 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: twelve step works from my own observation, is that you 439 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: go in and it is a spiritual program, which is 440 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 2: a big kind of issue for a lot of people 441 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: when they first enter into those rooms. But what you 442 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 2: find is very much what you just described as a 443 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 2: bunch of trail angels, because it is the connection that 444 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: starts to heal you. It's the rooms. It's sitting with 445 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: people who have felt the pain that you feel. And 446 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 2: there's something in that that triggers something I would assume 447 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 2: in our brain to go, wait a second, I'm not alone. 448 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: I am on a path of some sort. Maybe this 449 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: redirection was my best protection and things like that. So 450 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: have you experienced that in your own journey or just 451 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 2: in your practice when you have worked with different clients, 452 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 2: like have you seen this kind of awakening happening? 453 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 3: Oh, the twelve step program is a profoundly spiritual program. 454 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 3: One hundred percent agree with you, Kelly. In fact, two 455 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 3: thirds of people to recover through AA. Research is clear 456 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: about this do so through a spiritual awakening. They may 457 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: have walked in and felt quite unhappy with the notion 458 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 3: of spirituality or religion. Through what you've just described is 459 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 3: a community of unconditional, radical love together handing it over 460 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 3: to what, to the great force and through life. Whether 461 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: they say my higher power is the universe or the 462 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 3: deepest good nature of humanity or the source of life 463 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 3: or God or Jesus. There is one source of life, 464 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: and every one of us is built to hand it over. 465 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 3: That's how the brain works. Why do we have mass 466 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 3: addiction and mass depression because we have culturated an entire 467 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: generation into people now, two generations who have not yet 468 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 3: had the opportunity to realize our true nature. Our nature 469 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 3: is to hand it over. When we don't, we're isolated. 470 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 3: When we don't, we think we need to control anything everything. 471 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 3: We think we need to control everything. When we don't 472 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 3: hand it over, we wither on the vine, were malnourished 473 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: because we're closed off to spirit. But we are built 474 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 3: in our brain. Every one of us is built in 475 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 3: our brain to hand it over, to be in a 476 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 3: sustained relationship with the higher power. However it is we 477 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: conceptualize of that, there's still one higher power and whatever 478 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 3: faith tradition we may be of or not of, there's 479 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: one spiritual brain, seven point four billion spiritual brains, one 480 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 3: source of all life. We're meant to be a spiritual 481 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: community here on earth together. An AA does a AGESC? 482 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: I agree when you're mentioning cultivating a spiritual relationship, and 483 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: there's all the different avenues. That brings up something that 484 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: you talk about in your work, where the importance of 485 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 2: as a parent really like teaching your child a spiritual 486 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: foundation and giving them that set to them in childhood. 487 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: And I asked you before, well, how do you know 488 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 2: the difference between like pushing your own religious or spiritual 489 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: beliefs onto a child and giving them a spiritual foundation, 490 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: Like you want them to have a spiritual foundation because 491 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: of all the reasons you're describing, But also isn't it 492 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: important for us each to have our own you know, 493 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: journey with that and exploration and decide what works for 494 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: us or what speaks to us. So how do you 495 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 2: navigate that as a parent. 496 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: So the science is really clear about this for us parents, 497 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: And Kelly, I raised three kids, so I deeply in 498 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 3: my heart, both as a scientist and as a mom, 499 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 3: feel this is the most important gift we give our child. 500 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 3: The most important gift we give our child is to 501 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 3: strengthen their natural spiritual core. 502 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: Okay, do we do that? 503 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: And science is Claire, There's two big contributions and they're equal. 504 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 3: The first is that in our very being we have 505 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 3: radical unconditional love the way you just described aa. Yeah, 506 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 3: amongst the family as you might sit in AA. And 507 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter if you just failed that test or 508 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: ace that dust. I mean, we're going to help you 509 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 3: if you didn't go well. But in terms of us 510 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 3: here at the dinner table, we love you. We just 511 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 3: love you. We love you as a soul on earth. 512 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: We love you as the gift from the higher power 513 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 3: of God to our family. We love you radical unconditional love. 514 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: To walk the walk and walk it towards other people. 515 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: You know, stop and do something for the elder who's 516 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 3: in Stop, you know, as a family, and make time 517 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 3: to go to the soup kitchen. Stop as a family, 518 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,959 Speaker 3: to serve. So walk in the walk of spiritual life. 519 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 3: Our children watch us like a hawk. And the second 520 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 3: piece that's tremendously important is that we talk the walk 521 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 3: of spiritual life in a way that's authentic and rooted 522 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: in our heart. That we offer them our own deepest, 523 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 3: authentic spiritual journey. Because if the child hears us pray 524 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: out loud, come sit by me as I meditate, look 525 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 3: at the sunset. It is such a beautiful gift from God. 526 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 3: I just look at you and your sister. I know 527 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 3: I couldn't have made you alone. The universe is so 528 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: abundant and good. When we narrate talk the walk of 529 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 3: spiritual life, our children know that the spiritual realm is real. 530 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 3: Our children know there's a way in when they pray 531 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 3: with us, meditate with us, and they can and get 532 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 3: there themselves when we pray out loud, when we say 533 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 3: you want to finish this prayer, you want to sit 534 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 3: by me, let's walk in nature. Look at that bird 535 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 3: and the bird's mama. They remind me of us, baby 536 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 3: and mama, and they see the unity of all life. 537 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 3: Children think spiritual life is real because we said it 538 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: was as mothers with all of our heart, with the 539 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 3: fullness of our being. They know there's a way in 540 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: to connect with the higher power. They know there's a 541 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: language and a roadmap of the spiritual reality. They know 542 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 3: our lives are not like mighty mouse of our own control, 543 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 3: but that we are an open system and dialogue with 544 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 3: what it's not asking of us. Now, this is the 545 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 3: greatest gift because it allows your child to open up 546 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 3: in the journey of life as a spiritual event. I mean, 547 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 3: that's so precious, that's so huge. To give our children 548 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 3: the capacity to know life as a spiritual event, not 549 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: as a shopping list, not as a bunch of accomplishments 550 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: where I win or lose, not based on my outer shell, 551 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: where I could have an accident and get disfigured. Now 552 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: a spiritual event, full of adventures, full of pains and 553 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: sorrows and glorious moments. It is this unbelievable quest. 554 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: I agree with you completely about the action step of 555 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 2: walking your talk, too, because that's what I've observed in 556 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: my parents, and I think I have different practices than 557 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: them sometimes, and there's have shifted throughout my lifetime as well, 558 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: but ultimately the biggest lesson has been to observe their 559 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: growth as they continued their own individual spiritual practices. And 560 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 2: I always knew kind of where to go when my 561 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: life fell apart because of that, If that makes sense. 562 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 3: You watch them on a quest exactly, and there's really 563 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 3: hard times where the bread door stuck yeah open, Yeah 564 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 3: it was a yellow door, yeah beautiful, and trail angels 565 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 3: lining the way humans living beings. You know, Kelly raise 566 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 3: a very important point, which is if I have a 567 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 3: strong spiritual life, do I need to worry I'm somehow 568 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 3: being coercive that my child might have a different faith 569 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 3: traditional right, walk right, and the bottom line is that 570 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 3: forty five percent of people change faith traditions. I might 571 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 3: have been raised Hindu and I become Christian. I might 572 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 3: have been raised Christian and I become a Universalist. Write 573 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 3: that process itself draws on a deep connection to spiritual 574 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 3: inner life. As a parent, my concern, speaking for myself, 575 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 3: is not whether or not my child adapts my faith tradition. 576 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 3: My deepest concern is that my child be able to 577 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: hand it over, that my child treat life like a 578 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 3: spiritual event that I have realized for my child the 579 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: profound impact have as ambassadors. Parents are spiritual ambassadors to 580 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: strengthen and open their spiritual awareness. That only comes if 581 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 3: we pass the torch when they are children and teens. 582 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: If we speak in our own voice and yes, I 583 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 3: happen to be Jewish or Christian or Muslim, it doesn't matter. 584 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 3: The child knows that the spiritual reality. Much more deeply, 585 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 3: the spiritual reality is real. What gift do we give 586 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 3: our children as parents? We give them the gift of 587 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 3: knowing that the deep spiritual reality is real, whether that 588 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 3: comes packaged in the language of Christianity or Islam or 589 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 3: Judaism or any other faith tradition is very secondary to 590 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 3: the profound, enduring, lifelong effect of strengthening their natural spiritual awareness. 591 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 3: Let them pick any faith tradition, what endures. What endures 592 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 3: is their spiritual awareness. 593 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I believe because I think that as humans, 594 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 2: and I feel like our culture is starting to kind 595 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: of accept this a little bit more, and then there's 596 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 2: a whole other side that is really fighting it. But 597 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: it's like, if you try to say that everyone should 598 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 2: live their life exactly the same way, you're kind of 599 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: missing the point that we all came here as completely 600 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: different human beings for a reason, like to help each 601 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 2: other out, you know, Like I have a certain skill set, 602 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 2: you have a certain skill set, and look at us 603 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 2: right now. We're able to co collaborate and create something 604 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: together because of our different skill sets. And that's the 605 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: beautiful thing about humans to me. And I think that 606 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: can go for spirituality as well, because it's what resonates 607 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 2: for me every morning. To do in my practice may 608 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 2: not be the thing that really communicates to your heart 609 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: and your soul, So it's about finding your own path. 610 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 2: But I love the idea of walking the walk and 611 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: letting people around you observe that to then build their 612 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 2: own spiritual foundation or build upon a spiritual foundation their 613 00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 2: own spiritual path. 614 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 3: And what a wonderful way to truly, truly be deep, 615 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 3: true friends of the heart. I really want to I 616 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 3: want to know your deepest truth and that's your spiritual path. 617 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 3: And of course you're going to use your own language 618 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 3: and I'll use money. Right, We're not going to show 619 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 3: up dressed in the same outfit. 620 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 2: Right, we both have. 621 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: Fun, but they're two different colored. 622 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 2: Now there you go, exactly. 623 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: But you're absolutely right, Kelly, that can we really know 624 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 3: each other deeply? Yes, that is spiritual knowing. That is 625 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 3: an awakened friendship and awakened parenting. It is an opening 626 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 3: of the awakened heart. And we can feel in the 627 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 3: heart of what you want to tell me about Christmas 628 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 3: or Honok or Wally. I can feel in the heart 629 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 3: that joy and love. It doesn't need to be told 630 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 3: in my tradition or with my language. And that's real 631 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 3: spiritual multilingualism. We need to live it and show it 632 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 3: to our children. You know, right now, by the time 633 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 3: a child is six, he or she is more likely 634 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 3: to hang out with a child in first grade whose 635 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 3: family uses the same name for the higher power, and 636 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 3: they're even more likely little first grader more likely to 637 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: share their lunch box, their little school lunch with someone 638 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 3: who uses the same name for the higher power. So 639 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 3: we already have an unfortunate sort of splinteredness when what 640 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 3: we need is to come together in the heart. Love, yes, 641 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 3: cocquers all what faith, love right, love each other and 642 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 3: know of deep pro I want to hear about the 643 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 3: birth of your new sister brother. I want to hear 644 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 3: about the pasting of your grandma and grandpa and know 645 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 3: it in the heart, and you tell me it in 646 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 3: your language, your faith tradition. But I sure know what 647 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 3: you're talking about. I know of what you speak well. 648 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 2: I feel like our culture could use a lot of 649 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: what you just described. But let's talk about that a 650 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: little bit, because it is such an anger just time. 651 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of divisiveness. There's been 652 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: a lot of change, or there's a lot of change coming, 653 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: and not everyone knows where to stand with all of that. 654 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 2: Do you have any tips to use spirituality in a 655 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: time of high anxiety to really help our brains, our 656 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 2: psychology our hearts, though, our souls, all of it. How 657 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 2: can spirituality help us in this time? 658 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: We get anxious when we think, oh no, the thing 659 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 3: I want isn't going to happen, or oh no, how 660 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 3: am I going to control this? I'm not in control. 661 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,280 Speaker 3: Anxiety is very often the feeling of not being in control, 662 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 3: not being able to anticipate what comes next. So the 663 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 3: number one antidote is to release the illusion, the assumption 664 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 3: of total control. We don't have total control, and instead 665 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 3: be firmly rooted in the stance of discovery. Life is 666 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 3: a quest and stop saying what do I want? How 667 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 3: am I going to get it? Why didn't I get it? 668 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 3: And instead offer up to the universe, Hey, what is 669 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 3: life showing me? Now? What am I being asked to become? 670 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 3: You know? Someone just hurt me deeply? Someone just betrayed 671 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 3: me deeply? How can I love more deeply? I don't 672 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 3: mean re expose myself and go get right right right? Yeah? 673 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 3: How can I love love deeply in my heart as 674 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 3: a soul on earth in my walk? What has just 675 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 3: landed in my path that invites me to lead a 676 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 3: much bigger life, not have more junk, lead a deeply 677 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 3: bigger life. That's another way of being that shifts from 678 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 3: sort of a narrow what I call achieving awareness where 679 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 3: everything is measured. You got it, I didn't get it. 680 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 3: What do I have to what I call an awakened 681 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 3: life where we live in dialogue? Not what I want, 682 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: but what is life showing me now? Yeah? 683 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 2: I I mean that's the question I asked pretty much 684 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 2: every day. And I think when we were talking earlier 685 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: about our hardships and then looking back going well, there 686 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 2: was all of these things that opened up because of 687 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 2: that though, Like even in my example of hanseling a wedding, 688 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 2: was that fun in the time? Absolutely not. But when 689 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 2: I look back now the points that you were making, 690 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 2: Like I look back and I was like, wait, some 691 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: of that relationship, I really wasn't being true to myself. 692 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 2: And there were all these other things that I started 693 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 2: to learn but I couldn't. 694 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 3: See it before. 695 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 2: So because of that deep pain that I felt, my 696 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 2: eyes also opened to a lot of things within me 697 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 2: that needed to change and that I wanted to work 698 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: on and go deeper with. And so what you're just 699 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 2: saying about when you stay curious and something is like 700 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 2: shifting or not going the way you want are you 701 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: get in a fight with somebody is coming up for 702 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 2: a reason. And I talk about this on this podcast 703 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 2: all of the time. But it's all here to serve 704 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 2: our highest good. I really believe that, even the painful things. 705 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 2: And so if you can stay curious, there's like all 706 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 2: this world that opens up. You start to see the 707 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 2: trail angels, you start to experience the beauty between your 708 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: relationship with yourself and animals. Like everything becomes part of 709 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 2: a higher power in this whole experience, and you miss 710 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 2: it if you don't look at it in the way 711 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 2: that we're talking about right now. 712 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 3: And yet you are built to see it. Every one 713 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 3: of us, Yeah, I promise you in your brain, every 714 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 3: single person, every one of your beautiful community has an 715 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 3: awakened brain. It's a choice to engage. 716 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 2: There's a choice to engage to. 717 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 3: See and know that we're loved and held, we're guided, 718 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 3: and we're never alone. I mean, Kelly, I can tell 719 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 3: you each of those has a narrow circuit. Loved and held. 720 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 3: We all have a bonding network, right, we have a 721 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 3: shift from narrow dorsal that opened ventral attention, never alone. 722 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 3: We all have a prital of I can point to 723 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 3: you in an MRI study where in your brain, every 724 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 3: single one of your beautiful community is given at birth 725 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 3: a brain to perceive and know that the transcendent relationship 726 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 3: is loving, holding and guiding and they are never left alone. 727 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I feel like I could analyze this all 728 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 2: day with you, but I know we both need to go. 729 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 2: So I wanted to mention that you have three books 730 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 2: out your New York's New York Times bestseller, The Awakened Brain, 731 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: The Spiritual Child, and the Oxford Handbook of Psychology and Spirituality. 732 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 2: But I also wanted to know if there is is 733 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 2: there any other way that people can keep up with 734 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 2: the work that you're doing around spirituality and psychology and science. 735 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 3: Well, I would love to connect with people. I do 736 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 3: do Instagram where I okay, I certainly will share our 737 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 3: beautiful discussion Kelly on Instagram and I connect with people 738 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 3: that way. We also have the Spirituality, Mind Body Institute 739 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 3: at Combe University, which is a place where people can 740 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 3: come and become spiritually grounded therapists, guy leaders such as 741 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 3: yourself and you know. I want to leave one more message, 742 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 3: which is you know, men and women, we are all 743 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 3: spiritual beings, but for women to fulfill the wholeness of 744 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 3: how we're built. The science says it's even more important 745 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 3: that we own our spiritual knowing. That we look at 746 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 3: a synchronousity and we know that is meaningful. We take 747 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 3: it as real, we honor it, discern what it might mean, 748 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 3: and act on it. That men and women are all 749 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 3: spiritual beings, but women particularly are realized when we listen 750 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 3: to our deep spiritual knowing, our awakened knowing, and then 751 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,959 Speaker 3: act on it. And the backstory is we get even 752 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 3: more depressed when we shut that off, disavow the truth 753 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 3: in our heart and don't so we must remain an 754 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 3: open system handing it over in this deep sustained relationship 755 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 3: with our higher power and knowing each other from the 756 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 3: sun as been shining parts of God. Yeah. 757 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I can't say anything more that's 758 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 2: better than that. So let's end on that, Doctor Lisa Millard, 759 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. 760 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 3: Oh Kelly, it's just so wonderful to connect with you 761 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 3: in your community. 762 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 2: Thank you guys for listening. 763 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 764 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a 765 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: little Edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty 766 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.