1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the I Heart Radio 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast, a paranormal podcast network. Your quest 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here. 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: We invite you to enjoy all our shows we have 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: on this network, and right now, let's start with the 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: afterlife point. The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: our thoughts and opinions only and do not necessarily reflect 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio, Coast to 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Coast a out employees of premier networks or their sponsors 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: and associates. You are encouraged to do the proper amount 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: of research yourself, depending on the subject matter and your needs. Hi. 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm Sanders Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: On each episode, with discuss the reasons we now know 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. How is 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: your day going? Are you feeling powerful? Are you feeling happy? 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: I started doing some daily Thoughts of the day of videos. 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: Each day I share an inspiring quote to help all 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: of us live a happier life with some follow up 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: words about the topic. Life isn't so easy. So if 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: I can help to inspire in just a few minutes 23 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: a day, I'm going to do that. If you're interested, 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: just go to YouTube and search for Sandra's champlain and 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: you'll find my thoughts of the day. A few days ago, 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: I was blessed to be the moderator of a question 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: and answer session with the filmmakers of the new award 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: winning film called Living with Ghosts. The movie follows a 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: grieving widow and talks about things like automatic writing and 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: I A d C therapy, which is AGREE therapy, which 31 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: stands for induced after death communication. While on this Q 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: and A there were three panelists. There was a filmmaker 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: Stephen Berkeley, There was Professor Jan Holden, who is the 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: president of i ANS, which is the International Association for 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: Near Death Studies, and counselor Graham Maxie, who has been 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: treating grief and trauma very effectively for over thirty years. 37 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: The conversation was just fantastic, and I think he'll be 38 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: really interested with what the three of them said about 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: life in the afterlife and this therapy. We're going to 40 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: start with a story from Graham Maxi, and he shares 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: about when he first started dating his wife and he 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: found out she was a medium. It's incredible. It was 43 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: on our third date, um, and both of us have 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: been married before, but on our third date, I brought 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: a book with me to her apartment. I said, you know, 46 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: she's to be interested in this, and she picked up 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: the book and immediately winced, like oh, and and I 48 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: was like, what you know? And she said, this isn't 49 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: your book and I said, well, it was given to 50 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: me by a friend. And she said, did your friend 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: shoot himself in the head? Yes? Was he left handed? Yes? 52 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Was his name Don? Yes? Was he married to Barbara? Yes? 53 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: He says, Don's here, and he says that there's a 54 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: note that he left that Barbara hasn't found yet, and 55 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: he wants you to call her and tell her where 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: to find the note. And I did and she did, 57 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: and in that thirty second exchange, the world kind of 58 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: changes a lot, you know. But it was through her 59 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: her that I met Jan. Basically, Shannon was doing some 60 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: gallery readings around Dallas Fort Worth area and invited Jan, 61 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: and Jan was gracious enough to come, and I met 62 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: her and Jan invited us. I could not go, but 63 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: she invited us to the demonstration of my A d C. 64 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: And Shannon came home and said, Graham, I think you 65 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: need to go to Chicago. And she told me about 66 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: it and I said, I think you're right, and uh, 67 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: I did. And actually I wrote a book after. It 68 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: was about five years later after that that I still 69 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: haven't published yet, but I sent a copy to Dr Bodkin. 70 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: He liked it, and kind of from there, he recruited 71 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: me to go to Germany. He had been there a 72 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: couple of times and his health was not He's got 73 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: terrible back problems, he can't fly, and so he asked 74 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: me to go and instead and I started doing training 75 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: through an interpreter, which is interesting. Also interesting is trying 76 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: to demonstrate this through an interpreter. You know, when you're 77 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: doing when you're doing I DC therapy through a third party, 78 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: that's exciting. It's really the most exciting I've been a 79 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: I've been a therapist since nine and this is the 80 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: most exciting form of therapy I've ever gotten to do. 81 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: Because people walk in to your office and they're depressed. 82 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: There some of them aren't even functioning and ninety minutes 83 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: later they walk out and they're different, and you know, 84 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: they come back the next time, and it's most of 85 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: the time, you know, we have have had an after 86 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: death communication, which is, as it was for me, kind 87 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: of life changing. So the cherry on top, though, is 88 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: that you don't have to worry as a therapist about, hey, 89 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: are they going to get an a DC, because as 90 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: somebody in Bodkin's book, which I hope you'll you'll get 91 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: and read, said, one of the people from the other 92 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: side said, hey, we're in charge of that, not you, you 93 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: you know, so just don't worry about it. But whether 94 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: you get an after death communication or not, the intensity 95 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: of the grief and the amount of difficulty that that's 96 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: charging your life with is substantially and incredibly reduced the 97 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: point that people can function again. And and I've never 98 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: seen that fail, never since I started this in two 99 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: thousand and six. So that's that's something you hang on 100 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: too every time you go into a session. That's a 101 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: big deal. I mean, grief has the power to get 102 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: us looking for answers and start us on our spiritual 103 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: journey and some good things, but also it can also 104 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: kill us inside. And I know many people who have 105 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: been grieving their loved and it can actually, it can 106 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: actually hurt you at a cellular level. You know. Yeah, 107 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: what is I A DC therapy and how did it 108 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: come about? Do you mind sharing a little bit about 109 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: that ground? No, Um, you know, Backen was doing trauma 110 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: therapy with veterans up at the v A for twenty 111 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: years and uh, the model at the time was was 112 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: kind of, We're going to go over this so many times. Um, 113 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: it's called exposure therapy basically, you know, we're gonna go 114 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: over it and over and over and over it, and 115 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: it's going to lose some of its power that way. 116 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: And then he discovered eye movement desynsitization and reprocessing, which 117 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: is a psycho physiological model. It's not just talk therapy. 118 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: And he was very amazed by it. And so it 119 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: was kind of like the difference between putting a motor 120 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: in your car and just pushing it around count all 121 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: day long, you know, by yourself. And he made some 122 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: modifications to it. One of the differences, the key difference 123 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: really is between I d C and E M d R, 124 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: as E M d R starts right from the present 125 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: presenting symptom, you know, like if you have an upset stomach, 126 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to focus on that, or if 127 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: you have a headache, going to focus on that. What 128 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: i DC does is say, we're going to start with 129 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the assumption that you're here for grief, and we're going 130 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: to build the story. We're gonna we're gonna let you 131 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: tell the story. We're gonna build it until we find 132 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: the part of that story that is the most distressing 133 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: for you right now. And that's that's the real, real 134 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: key element in this is find in that and then 135 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: once you do it, you use the bilateral stimulation in 136 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: conjunction with their going back into that moment or that 137 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: that symbol or whatever it is. It can be a 138 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: lot of different things. And once you've taken that intensity down, 139 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: which happens in tens of minutes, if not less, that's 140 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: just spooky, you know, to ted even happen. But once 141 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: you do that, you're in a place I've always said, 142 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, after death, communication is not in your face. 143 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: It's not going to go you know, but it's it's 144 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: very subtle communication. And if you're in intense grief, it's 145 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: kind of like trying to look at the stars when 146 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: the sun is out, it's starlight is there, but it's 147 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: very subtle compared to the sun. So when we take 148 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: the sun get it to set, you know, you're free 149 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: to see what else is there. And that's that's kind 150 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: of my nutshell version of i DC. When the people 151 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: are doing the therapy with you, are they talking through it? Yes, 152 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: they are talking. You know. I invite them to talk 153 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: about their loved one, who they were, and about their passing. 154 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: And lots of people, lots of them have told me 155 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: that just that part of it is healing for them, 156 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: being able to say, this is who this person was 157 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: to me, and this is who they were, this is 158 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: how I experienced their their passing. Because most of the 159 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: people that they encounter don't want to intrude and don't 160 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: want to get them to cry, and they don't want 161 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: to be you know, this is very private, so I 162 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: don't want to and they don't get the chance to 163 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: do that, which is probably one of them those healing 164 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: things you can do for somebody in grief is tell 165 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: me who this person was that you're missing and how 166 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, tell me the details of how horrible it 167 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: was for them to go. So that's the talking part 168 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: and then we we you know, zero in on one 169 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: part and then they don't talk. You know, then we 170 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: do the bilateral stimulation, and then they just report, you know, 171 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: what's happened, what's happened? Now? How do you howry? What 172 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: are you noticing? Where are you noticing it? All that 173 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: kind of stuff which is not particularly verbal. It's experiential. 174 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: And have they reported that they actually feel a presence 175 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: of their loved one. Most of them encounter it. You know, 176 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: this is I'm not seeing this person standing in front 177 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: of me. A couple of people have told me they've 178 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: gone home and started once you know the way there, 179 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: you know the way there. You don't have to come 180 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: to my office to do it. A few of them 181 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: have said, you know, I was sitting there writing down 182 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: a few things and I looked up and there he 183 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: was standing in the door. You know, things like that. 184 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: But most of it is inter perception. I'm going to 185 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: stop here just because I want to say a few 186 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: things before we go into our break talking about this. 187 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: I a d C therapy. In fact, you can find 188 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: out more at induced a d C dot com. It 189 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: is a grief therapy, but it's something like over nine 190 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: of the clients actually feel a reconnection with their loved one. 191 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: They use either this eye movement so you follow somebody's 192 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: finger left, right, left, right having these experiences, or in 193 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: the movie itself, they show people tapping on their knees left, right, left, right, 194 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: and then there's also a method. It's almost like someone 195 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: hugging themselves and they're able to tap themselves on the 196 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: different sides of their chest as they're going through this therapy. 197 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: The book he was talking about is Induced After Death 198 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: Communication by Dr Alan Bodkin. So we'll be back in 199 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: just a minute. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife 200 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM 201 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast Network. Okay, folks, we need your music. Hey, 202 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast AM and every 203 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: first Sunday of the month we play music from emerging 204 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: artists just like you. If you're a musician or a 205 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: singer and have recorded music you'd like to submit, it's 206 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: very easy. Just go to Coast to Coast am dot com, 207 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: click the Emerging Artists banner in the carousel, follow the 208 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: instructions and we just might play your music on the air. 209 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: Go now to Coast to Coast am dot com to 210 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: send us your recording. That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Hey, 211 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: this is George Nori and you're listening to the Heart 212 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: Radio and Coast to Coast DAMN Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks 213 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: for being here. Now let's get back to more with Central. Yeah, 214 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sander Champlain 215 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: and we are here with Steven Berkeley, professor Jan Holden, 216 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: and therapist Graham Maxie talking about the movie Living with 217 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: Ghosts and the amazing grief therapy induced a d C 218 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: and as a side effect, people feel connected with their 219 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: loved ones. So I'd like to introduce you to Stephen 220 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: Berkeley and have him tell you a little bit about 221 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: why he created this film. My dad died, That's how 222 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: it started, and I went down to Florida with my 223 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: brothers to basically take care of whatever needed to be 224 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: taken care of while my mom was in severe bereavement. 225 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: My mom had a really, really tough time, and I 226 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it was tantamount to a disorder, but 227 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: I would say she was way up there in terms 228 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: of the severity of her grief. So we got her 229 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: grief counselor, We got her into a support group, we 230 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: got her into to attend religious services. Nothing was effective 231 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: at all. It was very alarming for all of us. 232 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: We really because she was not functioning and we needed 233 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: to do something, and we ended up actually leaving her 234 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: in that condition. Unfortunately, we just got some some friends 235 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: of hers to kind of like help her just process. 236 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: But we had to get back to our lives and 237 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: we were living away from the state. At some point, 238 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: maybe it's only a few weeks later, my mother's voice 239 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: in a phone call changed a little bit. She seemed 240 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: a little bit lighter. And what I've found out from 241 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: her was that she well, this is what she said 242 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: to me, Stevie, I think your father is still here. 243 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: So I didn't know what to make of that it 244 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: but she explained to me that she thought there was 245 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: a blinking light in the house and we have a 246 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: she has a neighbor who's very open minded and said, oh, 247 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: that blinking light must be your husband saying hello. But 248 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: whatever it was, that was great. She was feeling better, 249 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: and she was feeling lighter, and she was having these 250 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: conversations with a blinking light. Well a week later she 251 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: started to reverse course. She was no longer as chipper 252 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: as she was when I first spoke to her, and 253 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: I found out my mother made the mistake of sharing 254 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: the Blinking Light story with their grief counselor, who said, no, Irene, 255 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: that's a short term solution to a long term problem. 256 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: That's not going to really help you over the long run. 257 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: So this was very upsetting for me, and I kind 258 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: of decided then and there that maybe it was time 259 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: to kind of bring my cameras down there and and 260 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: fill my mother going through this journey, because there's more, well, 261 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm more to it than that, but that's in a 262 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: in a nutshell. Now, let's meet Professor Jan Holden, who 263 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: is the president of IAN'S, which is the International Association 264 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: for Near Death Studies, author and many other things. As 265 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: you said, I was a professor of counseling at the 266 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: University of North Texas, and part of a professor's job 267 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: is to do research. I had done my doctoral dissertation 268 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: on something related to near death experiences, so all the 269 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: while that I was on faculty at u n T, 270 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: I researched the interface between near death experiences and related 271 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: experiences that I call trans personal experiences because there experiences 272 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: in which a person transcends the usual personal limits of space, time, identity, 273 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: and influence. So they include things like after death communication, 274 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: which is the subject of Living with Ghost documentary. Longer 275 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: story shorter. I had gone to UM Chicago to study 276 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: with Albakan train with him to learn the I A 277 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: d C technique myself. I went with three or four 278 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: of my students. When we got back here to the 279 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: Dallas area, we actually met right here this is my 280 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: home office, and we practiced on each other until we 281 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: felt really ready to offer our services to our clients. 282 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: Just that experience of working with each other was so amazing, 283 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: and I really came to believe that I a d 284 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: C offered something unique to people who are grieving, like 285 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: a unique It was a unique healing process, but no 286 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: one had ever done research on it. So I designed 287 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: this study to compare I a d C with traditional 288 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: grief counseling and see if in fact, people experienced more 289 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: relief from their grief symptoms with I A d C 290 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: than with traditional grief counseling and UM. Long story short, 291 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: the answer was yes. Our participants in the I d 292 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: C group showed significantly greater reduction in their griefs and 293 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: symptoms than the people who received traditional grief counseling. So 294 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: um it confirmed what I had suspected. And then somehow 295 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: I got on Steve's radar as he was well along 296 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: in producing his documentary and came to be part of 297 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: that because of its relevance to the topic of the documentary. 298 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: The communication can come through hearing, either hearing a voice 299 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: in the environment or hearing in the mind's ear, so 300 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: to speak. It can come through touch, and it can 301 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: be even just a nondescript but absolutely distinct sense of 302 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: the presence of the disembodied person, or even smell our smell, right, 303 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: And just to clarify in case everybody doesn't know what 304 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: bilateral stimulation is, it's the rhythmic stimulating of the back 305 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: and forth of the nervous system. So initially in eye movement, 306 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: desensitization and reprocessing, it was that the therapist would move 307 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: their fingers back and forth and the by looking right 308 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: and left, right and left. It's bilateral, you know, it's 309 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: stimulating the two sides of the body. And since then 310 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: we know that we can use um sound, you know, 311 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: bing bing, bing, bing, or we can use touch, which 312 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: is kind of our favored approach in I A d 313 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: C right now, is to tap the backs of the 314 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: person's hand like you saw in the in the film. 315 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: We do a series of those. So there will be 316 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: some bilateral stimulation, what with the client with their eyes 317 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: closed and then um stopping and letting whatever is happening 318 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: in them um happen. And then they open their eyes 319 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: and report what they've been experiencing, and you just kind 320 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: of talk about that a little bit and then go 321 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: back and proceed from there, you know, with more bilateral stimulation, 322 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: eyes closed, and then get a report and do that 323 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: several times. And and it's usually during that process, after 324 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,239 Speaker 1: after processing that core sadness that Graham was referring to, 325 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: that biens spontaneously have some sense of the presence of 326 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: their deceased loved one. If they don't, then we might 327 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: ask a question. Never do we say, knowe try to 328 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: conjure up the image of the person. We're always asking 329 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: questions that that's related to the grief, but that can 330 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: help facilitate the experience. And about seventy five per cent 331 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: or so of people, would you say, Graham, that was 332 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: the first statistic that came out, and that's that's pretty 333 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: old at this point personally, you know, me keeping track 334 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: of what's happened in my office, it's more like ninety 335 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: two or three. Wow. Great, that's huge. We've got a 336 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: question from Meg. She says, in the film which I loved, 337 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: you described a tapping technique on the back of the hands. 338 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: Can someone do this on their own? And how does 339 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: this technique differ from E F T or shamanic syncopated 340 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: beats or is it similar? Well, not being that knowledgeable 341 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: about shamanic rhythmic beats, we do know that one of 342 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: the ways this works is a traumatic experiences in code 343 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: it differently in our in our brain than other experiences 344 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: are that comes in, you know, basically cite sound. You know, 345 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: whatever sense comes in and immediately goes to the amygdala 346 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: from you know, and it gets processed the hippocampus, and 347 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, it forms this nice little pipe memory loop 348 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: that has no cognizance. You know, there's nothing you don't 349 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: think about it, It's just there. So every time you 350 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: go back to those groups of neurons, you know, something triggers, 351 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, a remembrance of it. It just plays the 352 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: way it's always been, and it just stays there. And 353 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: there's something about the bilateral stimulation that encodes a new 354 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, while you're reliving that memory, it's enlisting you know, 355 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: this four brain, this prefernal cortex into the loop, and 356 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: so you're actually doing a full brain memory, forming a 357 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: full brain memory instead of a martial brain memory. And 358 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: and that qualitatively changes the memory from that point on, 359 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: so you can think about the person without triggering the trauma. Again. 360 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: I know there's something to bilateral stimulation all of its own. 361 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: They used to train our psychic spies. The Army Intelligence 362 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: Court actually trained their people using bilateral stimulation. There's some 363 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: neurological stuff we don't quite understand, but that's what I 364 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: just said is kind of what we understand the significance 365 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: of bilateral stimulation to be in alleviating trauma. Shamanic, I 366 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: don't know so much about. I'm very open to you know, 367 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: we're not the first people that figured out any way 368 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: to help people. You know, this is has been going 369 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: on a long time, and this is not the only 370 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: form that that helped can arrive in. Stephen, you know, 371 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: has highlighted probably one of the better ways of doing that, 372 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: which is journaling, you know, a dedicated journaling practice where 373 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: people are getting it out of their body. They're not 374 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: just sitting with thoughts, they're not just sitting with emotions. 375 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: They're actually using their nervous system to get it out. 376 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: In the practice of that, many people notice the way 377 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: even there's something else going on here except besides me 378 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: just writing stuff down. Before I knew about i DC, 379 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: you know, one of the favorite methods of grief therapy 380 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: was called empty chair work, which as you'd sit and 381 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: have the clients speak to their deceased father or son 382 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: or whoever it was, and then they changed places and 383 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: pretend to be the father and sons and what do 384 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: you say to that? You know, And there were some 385 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: times when people would come out of those sessions and say, 386 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: I didn't expect to hear that, And then they'd leave 387 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: the offenses and remember, oh, well, that was just pretend 388 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: and it kind of took a lot of the manchick 389 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: out of it. This is different because we're not pretending anything. 390 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: You're you're doing it as we speak. It's part of 391 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: a continuum of healing that we're accessing that the human 392 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: being has as part of its equipment. We'll be back 393 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: with more in just a minute. You're listening to Shades 394 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast 395 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to 396 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast A and 397 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out all our 398 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: shows on the I Heart Radio app or by going 399 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: to I heart radio dot com. You're listening to the 400 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: new I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 401 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. Now let's get back to Shades of the Afterlife. 402 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: Was the Champlaine Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 403 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain and we are with our panel of 404 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: guests from the Living with Ghosts movie. I know from 405 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: taking mediumship courses myself. The spirit world and our soul 406 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: works through our imagination. So sometimes our loved ones are there, 407 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: or we get a whiff of a cologne or a cigar. 408 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: We think just my imagination, and it's like yes and no. 409 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: They are yes, they imagine. If you say, is it 410 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: just my imagination, the answer is yes. The question is 411 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: what is your imagination? It's like you know, what is television? 412 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: You know? It has lots of different channels. You know, 413 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: you can go to you know, the cartoon channel. You know, 414 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: that's kind of made up. You know, somebody drew that, 415 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: you know, all right. But you can also go to 416 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: the Discovery channel or something and usually there's something that 417 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: you say, you know, those are people actually doing that, 418 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: you know, but it's coming through the same media. So 419 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: is it all made up? No, it's not anymore than 420 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: your imagination is. Yeah, I want to jump in because 421 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: in the early literature on after death communication spontaneous after 422 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: death communication, it was referred to as hallucinations of the grieving, 423 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: which made it sound like it was made up or 424 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: um not not real and um. One of the phenomena 425 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: that I've focused on both with near death experiences and 426 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: after death communication is called vertical perception. And that's where 427 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: in the experience the person the experiencer, based on the 428 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: condition position of the person's body, they shouldn't know things 429 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: that they learned through the experience. And so a perfect 430 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: example is what Graham was talking about when Shannon picked 431 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: up that book and said, Don's wife has not yet 432 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: found a note that he left for her, and it 433 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: it's located here, and so Graham then calls Don's wife 434 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: and says, I got this, had this experience, and supposedly 435 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: there's this note that Don left for you that you 436 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: haven't found yet, and it's located here, and then she 437 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: goes to that location finds the note. So Shannon got 438 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: information that there is no explanation for how she could 439 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: have known this very specific, accurate information. And the literature 440 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: and near death experiences is replete with examples like this, 441 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: and after death communication as well. Now in in near 442 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: death experiences, a lot of that has been pulled together 443 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: in a book called The Self Does Not Die for 444 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: a d C. We haven't yet pulled it together in 445 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: one location, but I know some authors who are working 446 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: on on that. And so the point of this is 447 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: that these as just as Graham was saying, these are 448 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: not just made up experiences. Vertical perception shows that the 449 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: experiences have objective reality to them. Uh, and not all 450 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: of them do, but but many of them do. So 451 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: it can help people not discount the experience they had 452 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: because when people, you know, our culture is very discounting 453 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: generally speaking of these experiences. If an experience or disc 454 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: counts the experience, then they stat themselves from garnering the 455 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: healing from the experience. So it's important for people to 456 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: realize that this is this is more than imagination in 457 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: the sense of being made up, and that there is 458 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: something genuine objective about these experiences. And if the experiencer 459 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: can accept that, then they can go on to really 460 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: ask the important question of you know, what does this 461 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: mean for my life? How can I use this experience 462 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: to move forward in a healed and constructive kind of way. 463 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Thanks jam Thanks guys, Steven, let's move over to you. 464 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about the writing and 465 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: the journal and Graham had brought it up, but I 466 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: think it's so important. Not everyone is going to have 467 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: I A d C therapy, but everybody's got paper and 468 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: a pen, and could just talk about include that in 469 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: the film and what it is and how it can 470 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: really can make a difference, because it certainly does. Okay, Well, 471 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: what I was capturing was a particular kind of journaling 472 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: Ethel and both and my mother were both doing automatic writing. 473 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: I've also been heard called transpersonal journaling or jen you 474 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: would know what it's called also, But um, I know 475 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: that the just the act of writing is very important, 476 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: as Graham was saying, in the case of Ethel and 477 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: my mom, they were actually looking for feedback. I case 478 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: it came very quickly. I think I don't think it 479 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: comes that quickly for most people. Most people who in 480 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: dabble in automatic writing, they have to try it every 481 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: day at a certain time. They pick over and over 482 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: and over again, and usually I think at least thirty 483 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: days was what one author of an automatic writing book, 484 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: Lowann Mayer um. She she does mention that you gotta this, 485 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: You got to try it every day for thirty days, 486 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: and then maybe that's when something will happen. I don't 487 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: know much about it other than just it seems to 488 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: work for I don't know how, I don't know what percentage, 489 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: but when it does work, it could it could be 490 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: really be life changing because people can resume a kind 491 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: of relationship where they're deceased. So it's it's pretty amazing. 492 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: I think it requires a commitment to I can just 493 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: imagine when we all get to the other side, and 494 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, of course we want our loved ones to 495 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: not feel pain and everything, but of all of a sudden, oh, 496 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: they're interested in picking up a journal and starting to write, 497 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: and well, it didn't happen today, and they drop it. Well, 498 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: it's not easy for them either. But when we start 499 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: that conversation going, even if we think in the beginning 500 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: it's us one them, Like I love how Graham said 501 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: we can't see the stars through the sun or however 502 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: you said that, but it really gives us a practice 503 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: of like being the lights a little bit so that 504 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: our spirit friends can start to speak and and ultimately 505 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: everything we do is to help those experiencing pain and 506 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: get people to live life again. I don't think anybody 507 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: really wants to die, because you know that we're human 508 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: and there's stuff here to do and lives to live. 509 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: But to really be comforted that when we do take 510 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: that last breath, you know, we open our eyes and 511 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: our loved ones are there. And you know it might 512 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: be a there everybody doing the way of a big 513 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: cheering committee, but our lives here are so important and 514 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: I know that our loved ones want us to have 515 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: the best life ever. So if we can do whenever 516 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: it takes to help in the grieving process and have 517 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: that opportunity to live life again, I mean, I think 518 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: that's what this is all about. So should we go 519 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: from some questions from people. Did Karen end up having 520 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: an I a d C. It's implied in the documentary, 521 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: but it wasn't explicitly stated. She did not. It communicates 522 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: me anyway that she had any after death communication in 523 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: that session. That what she got was I can think 524 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: about him without being sad. When I said to her 525 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: before the sessions was something that a lot of people encountered. 526 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: You know, well, I'm I'm sad about them when I 527 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: think about them, and that's my last contact with them, 528 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: so I don't want to lose the sadness. What she 529 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: got was I can think of him and be happy 530 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: and not feel like I lost him, you know, because 531 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sad. And that was life changing for her. 532 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: You know, she went into being pretty much armored against 533 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,479 Speaker 1: having any ADC. I don't know if she's had any 534 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: sense then she was determined not to actually when when 535 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: we met, it's true. Thank you. If you are not 536 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: an I a d C practitioner, where can you find 537 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: classes on clergy too? But not a psychiatry, psychologist or psychotherapist, 538 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: You guys can talk maybe a little bit about the 539 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: training and if people are interested in this, how do 540 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: they find out about it well, it's it's it comes 541 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: up over and over again. We're not going to train 542 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: people who are not licensed mental health practitioners. And it's 543 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: not because people can't learn how to do it. It's 544 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: because we're trying to protect the process. A lot of 545 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: the people that have contacted me are very skilled in 546 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: what they do to help people that Reiki therapists and 547 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: sage therapists and chiropractors and all kinds of people I 548 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: think are very capable and have and have occasion to 549 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: do it. What we're trying very hard to keep from 550 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: happening is that this kind of gets out and becomes 551 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of the pop culture Uiji board, and who knows 552 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: what's going to happen with it and who knows who's 553 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: going to get it. So we're very very careful from 554 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: the get go about who we can train. I can't 555 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: certify people um in I DC who are not licensed, 556 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: and that's been the story from the beginning Plotkin wouldn't 557 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: do it, and uh, we've not had any any different 558 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: indication from from that. Grief is a deep, dark, horrible thing, 559 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: and I just personally feel that there may be good 560 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: books to read, good things to listen to um, but 561 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: I a d C is a grief therapy first and foremost, 562 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: and to be able to be in a trained in 563 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: the hands of somebody who's trained to really deal with 564 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: some of the things that we don't know about as 565 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: a trained therapist when you're dealing with the whole human being. 566 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: So I think it is important. I don't mind at 567 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: all that people go to a trained therapist too. There 568 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: is there's a screening that we do with any any 569 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: client or potential client. You know that we're looking for 570 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: signs that this would be a contraindication for them. We're 571 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: not going to exclude lots of people, but you know, 572 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: if you're an untreated bipolar disorder, this is not going 573 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: to be a really good thing for you necessarily. This 574 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: could be a real problem for you. So you know, 575 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: we need some We need people who are able to 576 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: screen for that in in an educated way. And that said, 577 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: if any listeners are licensed health professionals who want to 578 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: learn the technique, Graham does training and I think you're 579 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: even doing it virtually, yes, exclusively at this point, which 580 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: was a was a new undertaking a couple of years ago. 581 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: But what I found is that there's really no difference 582 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: in the learning that happens. Uh. Like I said, it's 583 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: a simple technique. It is not arcane, it's not convoluted. 584 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: It's very straightforward. We'll take our last break now and 585 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: then we'll come back with Professor Jan Holden, Graham, Maxie, 586 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: and filmmaker Steven Berkeley. You're listening to Shades of the 587 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast AM 588 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, and now more Sandra on the I 589 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coach to Coach AM Paranormal podcast Network. 590 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain 591 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: and we are with the crew from Living with Coasts 592 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: movie talking about I A d C Grief therapy, which 593 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: you can find out more at Indu East a d 594 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: C dot com. Graham, I'm assuming people can find out 595 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: about getting a session at the website, but what about training? 596 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: People also find out about the training geographically? You know 597 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,760 Speaker 1: that you can. You can even find the ones in Germany, 598 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: in Italy, in places like that. I think we even 599 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: have I think we have one in South Korea if 600 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: that's where you find yourself. But um, yeah, that's that's 601 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: it's it's done. Geographically. Well, it's a good chance that 602 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: the Unseen World is getting people to notice this and 603 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: have interests. But it also good. It is good for 604 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: us to be able to share. And you know, sometimes 605 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: it's hard to talk about these things, but I really 606 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: love that we have this film that people can say, 607 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, did you see this? And you have 608 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: that conversation and if you do know somebody fits the qualifications, 609 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: it really may be an asset to them because everyone, 610 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: every therapy wants to help people and wants people to 611 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: live their best lives. Adianna as asking how can people 612 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: not only watch the film some haven't here, but how 613 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: can we get the extra information? Because I know we 614 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,240 Speaker 1: people could watch for free, but if you chose to donate, 615 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: you could also get some bonus material. I think it 616 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: was twenty hours of things. If you can explain, Steve, 617 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: just a little bit about how you've done the premiere 618 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: and the screenings and because some people would like to 619 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: watch it, and how that they can get all these 620 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: good things. Okay, but first I have to admit to 621 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: everyone that I'm self distributing and it's all new to me, 622 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: so things are coming out a little bit clunky. The 623 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: film made its premier in October, and we're doing private 624 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: screenings right now because the film festivals where the film 625 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: is still at, they prohibit filmmakers from just letting the 626 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: film be shown publicly while the film is still in 627 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: the film festival. Start get I gotta keep the private, 628 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: which means I can come to people like you, Sandra, 629 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: to host an event and everybody, all your members or 630 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: listeners or viewers, they can sign up and they could 631 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: they could watch. And we've been doing these fundraisers where 632 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: the film is free, but if you want to get 633 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,240 Speaker 1: the extras, or if you want to extend to time, 634 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: then you might have to a certain donation levels. You 635 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,760 Speaker 1: get you get that. It's a little incentive to donate 636 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: a little bit more because again we're trying to get 637 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: the film on PBS and that's gonna be expensive. So 638 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: if you put they put their name on your waiting lists, 639 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: they'll be informed as to when the next screening is. 640 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: And you can easily do that. Just go to we 641 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: Don't Die dot com and scroll to the bottom of 642 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: the page and there's information there about living with ghosts. 643 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 1: To follow up on how things switched in the movie, 644 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: somebody asked if any experiences have gone on to have 645 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: a continuing relationship with their partner or their deceased loved 646 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: one after their physical death. And this person is saying, 647 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, I had that with my partner. And I 648 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: don't know about I A d C clients, uh specifically, 649 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: but I've read two books by men who had very 650 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: ongoing communication with their disembodied wives. And I can't remember 651 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: the names of either the men or their their books, 652 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: but I think if someone just googles around, they probably 653 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: find them. But it's just to say that the answer 654 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: is yes, that people do have ongoing relationships with their 655 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: disembodied loved ones. That and these are people who are 656 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, mentally healthy and otherwise functioning, you know normally 657 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: and um successful in life and blah blah blah, and 658 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: they also have this ongoing relationship. So um, so it 659 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: does happen. I have a question for Graham that a 660 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: lot of people have asked me in these q and 661 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: a s, and that is you describe the release of 662 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: the trauma very well with the bilateral stimulation and how 663 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: it goes from trauma moves from one part of your 664 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: brain to another part of your brain, and it assimilates 665 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 1: the trauma becomes part of the patients or client. But 666 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 1: how does it result draw a line for me from 667 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,320 Speaker 1: that release of the trauma to a visit like what happens? 668 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: Why does a portal open during that moment? Well, it's 669 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of like what I was telling Sandra before 670 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: we got on that. First of all, being open to 671 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: it is kind of you know, they're not gonna go, hey, 672 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't care what you think I'm gonna be. You know, 673 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: give you this afterdas communication thing. You know. The other 674 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: thing is how much of your attention and energy is 675 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: being eaten up by the grief? You know, I just 676 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: don't people are gonna be able to notice a lot 677 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: of what's going on because they're so debilitated by this. 678 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: What I've noticed is that after death communication happens for 679 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: two There has to be two ingredients in there. You know. 680 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: One is connection with the person. You know, I don't 681 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: get after death communication from JFK JR. You know that's 682 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: that's not going to happen just because I know he's dead, 683 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: regardless of what you may hear now. But the other 684 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 1: thing is the need do I need to hear from you? 685 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: I may want to but do I need to? And 686 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: the only the only thing I can figure out about 687 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: that is that, yeah, you're here to do your own decisions. 688 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: You know, you're not going to be dependent on people 689 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,760 Speaker 1: who may have a larger view of this than you do. 690 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: It's one reason, you know, Shannon, we'll only read for 691 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: people one time, you know, for for one particular passing. 692 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: She doesn't want to be the conduit for them and 693 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: have them be dependent on her or or their loved 694 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: one for you know, what should I do with the 695 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: mortgage or what should I you know, that kind of stuff. 696 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,800 Speaker 1: You know, that's not what they do. But I do think, 697 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: I do think being open to it or having having 698 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: a demonstrate And that's something that Kenneth Ring talked about 699 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,240 Speaker 1: that you don't have to have a near death experience 700 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: to be affected by near death experience. You just have 701 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: to hear about it, uh and and say, wow, that's 702 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 1: kind of a different type on things. But I'm not 703 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: going to reject it. You know, I'm gonna I'm going 704 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: to learn more about it or I'm going I want 705 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: to hear more about it. But that that in itself, 706 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 1: without having a near death experience, can be an experience 707 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: that changes things for you. Jan I want to talk 708 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: to you for a bit because you've got such a 709 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: past with near death experience is and do you find 710 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 1: or through some of the stories of these reconnections. I mean, 711 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: everybody wants to know first of all that their loved 712 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: one is still around. But you've had your own near 713 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: death experience, can people trust that the afterlife is okay, 714 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: that people are healthy, well and whole well. Um, I 715 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: need to clarify that I actually have not had a 716 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: near death experience, but I've had a lot of transpersonal experiences, 717 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:33,440 Speaker 1: including a near death like experience and uh several after 718 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: death communications. So um, so I'm still in the experience 719 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: or realm, but not specifically a near death experience per se. 720 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,799 Speaker 1: I think the best way to answer the question is 721 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: to say that both people who have had near death 722 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: experiences and people who have had after death communication, if 723 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: before the experience they did not believe in the survival 724 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: of anxiousness after death, after the experience, they almost always do, 725 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: and so the experience um tells them that there is 726 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: survival of consciousness after death, and and it's because they 727 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: have encountered their deceased loved one as whole, healthy, and 728 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: so forth. So that's I think the most we can say. 729 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,439 Speaker 1: I don't know that from a purely scientific point of view, 730 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: will ever Maybe maybe we will. There are some ways 731 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: we're trying, but haven't succeeded so far in um in 732 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,799 Speaker 1: really establishing this from a scientific perspective. But we have 733 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: um huge numbers of testimonials from people who have encountered 734 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: their deceased loved one as whole and healthy and um 735 00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,760 Speaker 1: and continuing to exist. So I think that's the best 736 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: answer we have right now. Very good. There's a couple 737 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: of really nice things that people say here. Mindy says, 738 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,800 Speaker 1: I have an ongoing relationship with my husband. I promise 739 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,800 Speaker 1: you it is real. Debbie says, I love this film 740 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: and it helped to see it. Thank you for allowing 741 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,279 Speaker 1: me to view it. It gives hope to know there 742 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,919 Speaker 1: can be helped with grief. Not such good news. Could 743 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: any of you explain more about automatic writing? There's people 744 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: that are asking about how they can get started on it, 745 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,439 Speaker 1: you would suggest. I know the land Mayor is a 746 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: acquaintance of Graham's, and I've gotten to know her very well. 747 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: She's an author and she wrote a book called Celestial Conversations, 748 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: which is a great book. It's basically it's a how 749 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: to book regarding getting started with automatic writing. I can't 750 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: recite the book here or be even paraphrase very well, 751 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,359 Speaker 1: but the idea is, you pick a time of day, 752 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: you bring your pet and your pen, or if you 753 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,960 Speaker 1: were comfortable at the computer, that's okay too, but to 754 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 1: sit down religiously every day for thirty days. And I 755 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: think she recommends doing a little meditation first. Yeah, she 756 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: she she was. She asked me to write the foreword 757 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,759 Speaker 1: for her book, which is how we got acquainted. She 758 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: said when her mother died, and her mother had been 759 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 1: pretty emotionally abusive to her most of her life, and 760 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: then right after that her daughter committed suicide, she was 761 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 1: in terrible alcoholic distress, and so she said, I was 762 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: just casting around. I didn't have any place to go. 763 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: So she kind of leaned back into the only thing 764 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: that she had an experience with was what she said 765 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: was her Catholic upbringing, which she knew how to do 766 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: centering prayers, she knew how to do meditation, and she 767 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: knew how to do journaling. And apparently that was three 768 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,880 Speaker 1: disciplines that she knew at that point, and so she 769 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 1: started doing that and that, you know, became the book. 770 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: You know, she started noticing that when I'm I've done 771 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,399 Speaker 1: this centering prayer, when I've done this meditation, and then 772 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: I do the writing regularly and scheduled wise, Um, something 773 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 1: different is happening than what I was expecting. I'm beginning 774 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,359 Speaker 1: to have the indication that being answered. She went on 775 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,879 Speaker 1: from there to kind of look into transpersonal psychology and 776 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,320 Speaker 1: got a lot of affirmation. Yeah, some of this stuff 777 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: not just me, it's it's going on out there. You know. 778 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. 779 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: Our home basis we Don't Die dot com. I'm Sandra Champlain. 780 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,520 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the 781 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:55,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 782 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 1: And if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, 783 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,759 Speaker 1: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for 784 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: listening to the Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a 785 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,320 Speaker 1: AM paranormal podcast network.