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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission

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Speaker 4: Control decand most importantly, you are here. That makes this

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Speaker 4: the stuff they don't want you to know, coming to

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Speaker 4: you live from various places, emphasis on live, which will

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Speaker 4: be important later in the show. One of the most

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Speaker 4: amazing things about our imperfect country, the United States, is

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Speaker 4: no fooling, it's national parks. It's a huge, huge country,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of it is dedicated to wildlife. And

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Speaker 4: I think we've all had that experience when you talk

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Speaker 4: to someone who's not from the US and they're like, Hey,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna land in New York. What are you doing

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Speaker 4: this weekend? Oh, we thought we'd drive over to Chicago.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many amazing national parks in the western

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Speaker 2: side of the contiguous United States. I've not done extensive

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Speaker 2: traveling over there, but man, it makes me want to

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Speaker 2: just exist on that side of the country for a

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Speaker 2: while just to see the parks.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you who has done that to a

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Speaker 5: great degree is a friend of the show, Alex Williams,

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Speaker 5: who has posted up in many a national park in

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Speaker 5: that and other parts of the country.

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Speaker 6: He is a bit of an outdoorsman.

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Speaker 4: I love it, I love it and a huge fan

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Speaker 4: of maps as well. Check out his show Ephemeral, which

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Speaker 4: in my mind proves what podcast can be and can do.

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Speaker 4: You also, a spoiler, might hear some familiar voices in

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Speaker 4: those episodes. Now we have been fortunate to explore some,

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Speaker 4: but by no means all, of the US national parks

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Speaker 4: in person, and they're absolutely worth it. The US is

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Speaker 4: vast to a degree, it's still filled with wild country,

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Speaker 4: and it's home to so much amazing flora and fauna.

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Speaker 4: Yet depending upon whom you ask, these national parks may

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Speaker 4: also be home to something else ghost. Let's begin the tour.

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Speaker 4: Here are the facts. We won't spend too much time

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Speaker 4: on this, but it's important to know the history of

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Speaker 4: national parks.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 5: The story of the National parks system officially begins back

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Speaker 5: in March of eighteen hundred and seventy one, when Congress

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Speaker 5: created the Yellowstone National Park and the what was then

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Speaker 5: territories of Montana and Wyoming under the control of the

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Speaker 5: Secretary of the Interior. So I've always found to be

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Speaker 5: a bit of a perplexing concept, the interior of what

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Speaker 5: like everything within the United States.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, it's a weird one, but what are

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Speaker 6: you gonna do?

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Speaker 5: And this was as a benefit for the public, the

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Speaker 5: idea of you know, having green spaces where people can

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Speaker 5: hang out and maintaining them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, son, gone are the days of you know, the

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Speaker 4: European royal reserves. Right, Like back in Europe, under various monarchies,

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Speaker 4: the king or the crown would have their own hunting

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Speaker 4: lands and peasants could be executed for venturing onto these grounds.

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Speaker 4: So it's a big step to say, hey, we were

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Speaker 4: keeping this green space for everyone.

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Speaker 2: Well except for the indigenous peoples prior to that, right,

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Speaker 2: and even some homeowners that you know, people who had

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Speaker 2: moved west especially and kind of staked their own land.

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Speaker 2: And then somebody came through and said, actually, this is

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Speaker 2: part of our thing now, so you've got to go, you.

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Speaker 5: Guys, I was about to say, I recently kind of

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Speaker 5: started thinking about the idea of how much we take

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Speaker 5: for granted, the idea of land, you know, owning land,

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Speaker 5: who does the land belong to? Luckily, I guess through

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Speaker 5: a lot of convoluted legal practices and documents and things

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Speaker 5: like that, we've more or less sorted that out. People

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Speaker 5: can't just come and plant a flag in your yard,

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Speaker 5: but there was a time where that would come and

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Speaker 5: you would pay the blood price.

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Speaker 4: And litigation continues today with various Native American communities who

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Speaker 4: are regaining control of land that was repeatedly stolen from them.

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Speaker 4: This is simply an historical fact, and I think it's

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Speaker 4: also very American for there to be these beautiful ideas

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Speaker 4: and writing and concept with ugly real world practices behind them.

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Speaker 4: I mean, what happened, as imperfect and at times evil

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Speaker 4: as it was, is that the creation of Yellowstone led

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Speaker 4: to a global movement to create, maintain, and if needed,

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Speaker 4: protect national parks. And that protection clause becomes ever more

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Speaker 4: important as industry starts coming in and saying things like, hey,

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Speaker 4: we'll sponsor this park, and all we want in exchange

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Speaker 4: is the mineral rights you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, or a little chunk of we want to

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Speaker 2: have access to a little chunk of land to do

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Speaker 2: our thing, and you can you all keep the rest.

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Speaker 2: We don't want that. We just need this one area

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Speaker 2: because there's lots of copper.

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Speaker 4: Over here, so we'd all us Yeah, we'd also like

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Speaker 4: a right to renegotiate this based on what we find.

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Speaker 3: You know, every two to five years.

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Speaker 2: Well we still see stuff. We talked about it pretty

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Speaker 2: recently with when huge car manufacturers are trying to expand

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Speaker 2: or something, and that practice of just deciding, well, actually

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Speaker 2: we kind of need where we need the stuff that

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Speaker 2: you're occupying right now, Like that whole thing, we need that,

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Speaker 2: so we're going to use the laws to take it.

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Speaker 3: Our domain is imminent. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And Ben, I don't think this. I really like

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Speaker 2: where you're going here with the positive side of national

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Speaker 2: parks because I think for me personally, national parks are

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Speaker 2: on the whole a majorly positive thing. I just I

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Speaker 2: think you're right to say that there's like this this

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Speaker 2: side to it, right that like everything is a little

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Speaker 2: darker than we we'd like to think about it.

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Speaker 5: Well, look at what we've got, look at all this

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Speaker 5: natural splendor you know that exists under our purview.

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Speaker 6: But let's not talk about the ugly way.

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Speaker 3: We got it right right.

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Speaker 4: People stumble into places like Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon

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Speaker 4: or glaciers and they say this is amazing, and then

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Speaker 4: millennia old cultures say, yeah, we know we live here.

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Speaker 6: We were there, so we were there, dude, we're there.

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Speaker 4: The whole time. One more step in history we owe

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Speaker 4: to President Theodore Roosevelt, most famous of course for inspiring

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Speaker 4: the stuffed teddy bear he creates. He's like the famous

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Speaker 4: amateur wrestler Abraham Lincoln. He creates the National Parks movement,

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Speaker 4: the big one, because he's inspired by a naturalist and

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Speaker 4: very eccentric convenor named John Muir.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't Roosevelt also like a big game hunter. He liked

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Speaker 5: the sale stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, conservationist meant a different thing back then.

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Speaker 6: I guess it did.

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Speaker 5: It's sort of like Darwin eating every example of a

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Speaker 5: species that he discovered.

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Speaker 3: Yep, just so true story.

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Speaker 4: And shout out to our pal Jack O'Brien who hits

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Speaker 4: us to that one a while back. So Mure stood

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Speaker 4: tall against the dominant sort of zeitgeist of America at

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Speaker 4: the time, which said, look, progress is what we're about.

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Speaker 4: We're manifesting destiny. That means the land is here to

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Speaker 4: be used, it's just resources to extract, and he would say, no,

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Speaker 4: we've got to protect this, and luckily his argument won

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Speaker 4: the day he pushed for the eighteen ninety Act that

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Speaker 4: created Yosemite National Park, and then he was also instrumental

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Speaker 4: in the creation of multiple other parks. That's why he's

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Speaker 4: called the father of the National Park System.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if there are no kind of base

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Speaker 5: level rules around what's like on the table to develop,

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Speaker 5: you know, to destroy and kind of like piece together

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Speaker 5: other stuff out of, then everything's on the table. So

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Speaker 5: it's very important that this was established when it was,

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Speaker 5: or else you wouldn't have any of that stuff.

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Speaker 4: No, No, we pave the we would pave the world.

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Speaker 4: And now the National Park System covers four hundred different areas.

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Speaker 6: We're talking about.

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Speaker 4: More than eighty four million acres across all fifty US

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Speaker 4: states and then the territories and commonwealths including Saipan. Weirdly enough,

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Speaker 4: huge Marine Reserve. The service employees over twenty thousand people,

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Speaker 4: and that's a lot, but it's nowhere near enough to

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Speaker 4: have a single person monitoring every single acre of land.

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Speaker 4: The wildlife is dangerous at times. That means that if

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Speaker 4: you visit national parks, you are responsible for your interactions

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Speaker 4: with the wild adam. It also means that some unscrupulous

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Speaker 4: visitors can get away with breaking the rules, polluting, littering,

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Speaker 4: starting forest fires and you know, murdering folks well.

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Speaker 5: And the people that maintain and you know, watch over

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Speaker 5: these parks do it out of passion.

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Speaker 6: You know, they love it.

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Speaker 5: They're not like highly paid, and oftentimes there's a skeleton.

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Speaker 6: Crew kind of situation.

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Speaker 5: If there's ever a government shut down or funding gets scarce,

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Speaker 5: park maintenance is kind of one of the first things

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Speaker 5: to go, as we saw with Joshua Tree and there

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Speaker 5: was like a government shutdown and so many people you know,

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Speaker 5: vandalized and destroyed a lot of the titular Joshua trees.

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Speaker 4: And perhaps most controversially, there is to date, as we record,

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Speaker 4: no official tallly of just how many people go missing

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Speaker 4: on public land in the United States, and there's there's

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Speaker 4: not a great way to fix that either. And we've

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Speaker 4: had episodes with experts in this such as Professor Brian

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Speaker 4: Colt who talked about the Zone of Death and yellow

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Speaker 4: Stone and David Politis from missing for one one, But

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Speaker 4: there's another conversation, one that sends a shiver up the

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Speaker 4: spine of true believers, and every year, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: delivers piles of cash to the park system. Guys, there

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Speaker 4: are so many stories of ghost in these public parks.

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Speaker 4: Let's gather around the campfire, maybe spins some spooky tales.

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Speaker 2: And it's every one. It's every single one. By the way,

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Speaker 2: it's not just a couple of parks are haunted. Every

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Speaker 2: single one that we've looked at has at least one

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Speaker 2: ghost story, whether it's directly tied to, you know, one

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Speaker 2: of the most sought after places in the park or

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Speaker 2: one of the most sought after inns that is immediately

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Speaker 2: on the park, you know, property, or of right like

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Speaker 2: adjacent to it.

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Speaker 6: Scooby and the gang really have their hands full.

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Speaker 4: Everybody gets one Spider Man rules. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: We're not kidding conspiracy realist. Now, sure, some of the

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Speaker 4: more skeptical amongst us may automatically roll our eyes or

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Speaker 4: tentacles or algorithms, I guess at the thought, but you

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Speaker 4: still can't deny millions of visitors appear to at least

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Speaker 4: believe they encountered something in as you said, Matt, every

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Speaker 4: single National park covered by the Park Service. I mean

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Speaker 4: we can start with more notorious examples. The Grand Canyon, dude. Honestly,

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Speaker 4: people think the Grand Canyon is haunted. If you've ever

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Speaker 4: been there, it looks haunted. It lives up to the hype.

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Speaker 4: It is indeed grand.

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Speaker 2: There's stuff in them cracks.

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Speaker 4: It's probably ghosts or agent civilizations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ben, what do you what do you think is

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Speaker 2: accomplished by the tentacle rolling? Is it the same? Is

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Speaker 2: it the same kind of thing with it? It just

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Speaker 2: lets just lets people know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, have you I mean, have you ever bored an octopus?

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Speaker 3: It's very apparent.

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Speaker 6: They do this.

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Speaker 2: No, do they find me fascinating.

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Speaker 5: When I hear roll tentacles? I'm picturing like it doing

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Speaker 5: sort of like a breakdancing move, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, nice, nice and h And I also wonder this

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Speaker 4: is unrelated, but this is fascinating. We know the octopus dreams.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if the octopus encounters ghost or one it

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Speaker 4: thinks of the afterlife, that'd be cool story idea octagosts.

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Speaker 5: Have you seen the vampire squid? I mean, that thing's

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Speaker 5: a demon from hell.

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Speaker 4: There's some new pictures of I think it's the glass octopus,

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Speaker 4: which is so cool. It's been making the rounds on

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Speaker 4: the nature nerd stuff.

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Speaker 2: But enough about octopus is let's get to Eldovar Hotel.

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Speaker 4: Yes, known for its octopus ghost We're kidding, but it

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Speaker 4: is known for ghosts.

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Speaker 2: It's uh exclamation marks.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And a lot of the reporting met you and

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Speaker 4: I were talking about this off air, and we made

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Speaker 4: a little joke about it in the notes because a

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Speaker 4: lot of places would copy and paste for lack of

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Speaker 4: better work some of the stories and things that come

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Speaker 4: directly from the Grand Canyon's official website. And you can

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Speaker 4: tell because a lot of them.

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Speaker 3: And how'd you put it that? I like the way

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Speaker 3: you put it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's ending a sentence as though like all of

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Speaker 2: this was happening at the or or you may think

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Speaker 2: that was spooky, but what wait until you hear about

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Speaker 2: the Eldovar Hotel.

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Speaker 4: And it's almost as if the narrator is turning around

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Speaker 4: dramatically as soon as they say elov our hotel.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, the writing about this hotel, as well as

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Speaker 2: a lot of the other stories we're going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about today. Do seem to be stories that would

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Speaker 2: be easily retold by like a guide, let's say, or

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Speaker 2: a bus driver or somebody working at a hotel that's

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Speaker 2: going to tell you about the stories that are occurring

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Speaker 2: within this specific hotel or this national park.

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Speaker 3: Ring ring. Hello, it's me folklore. Yes, because I'm also

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Speaker 3: doing the telephone game.

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Speaker 2: That's what it feels like, and maybe that's why it's

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Speaker 2: a little frustrating as we're you know, researching this topic

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Speaker 2: in general. But it's also it does send tingles up

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Speaker 2: your spine if any of us to believe. So, I

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Speaker 2: guess that's what we're on that journey today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you don't have, I mean to exercise empathy,

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Speaker 4: right and understand the perspective. A lot of these people

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Speaker 4: who hear these stories and maybe take them at face value,

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Speaker 4: they've never heard them before, they don't know how often

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Speaker 4: they've been retold. They're hearing them from one person and

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Speaker 4: that is key, right.

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Speaker 2: And they're just rolling through for a couple of nights, probably.

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Speaker 4: Right, exactly exactly they want an experience, right.

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Speaker 6: So expectations a hell of a drug.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yes, Actually you nailed it. This place, the Eltovar

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Speaker 4: hotel is located in a very dramatic spot. It's like

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Speaker 4: about twenty feet from the south d of the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 4: It opened in nineteen oh five, so before the Grand

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Speaker 4: Canyon National Park was really a thing. And when it opened,

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Speaker 4: it was seen as the absolute peak of luxury pun

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Speaker 4: very much intended. And I didn't know this, but it

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Speaker 4: was part of a chain, a hospitality chain of restaurants

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Speaker 4: and lodgings owned by a guy named Fred Harvey. It

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Speaker 4: was one of the most famous Harvey hotels of the day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't know what that meant. I had

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Speaker 2: no idea what that meant. The Harvey Company's mister Fred Harvey.

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Speaker 2: But this guy was apparently one of the most what

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Speaker 2: would you call, I don't know, Like I imagine someone

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Speaker 2: who owns a hotel that's really excited that you're at

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Speaker 2: his hotel, And that is what I see when I

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Speaker 2: imagine Fred Harvey.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and he came up along with the age of

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Speaker 4: rail you know, and so he would purposely build stuff

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Speaker 4: to service passengers on various important railway intersections or passages

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Speaker 4: or stops. And yeah, he was an absolute nut about

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Speaker 4: it because he was very good at promoting tourism in

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Speaker 4: the American Southwest.

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Speaker 5: Looks to have also made a stand in Vegas with

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Speaker 5: things like the Nevada Lake Tahoe Harvey's Resort, hotel and casino,

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Speaker 5: which comes up if you're googling, like crazy Neon signs nice.

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Speaker 4: He also got a One of the other things he'll

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Speaker 4: be remembered for is being one of the forces that

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Speaker 4: kind of tamed the wild West, which was a very

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Speaker 4: short period of American history. But he's the one who

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Speaker 4: was like, let's bring some sit down restaurants where you know,

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Speaker 4: Harvey hotel restaurants, you can eat here without being shot.

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Speaker 5: Well sort of the almost like fantasy of the wild

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Speaker 5: West that was more sanitized. Like that's a big part

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Speaker 5: of what Vegas was was giving people some way to

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Speaker 5: feel like they were participating in that kind of like legacy,

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Speaker 5: but it was all very you know, kind of buttoned

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Speaker 5: up in like disneylandish.

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Speaker 4: And this all leads us to El Tovar because obviously.

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Speaker 6: He's sounds so cool and sinister.

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Speaker 4: Because you have to say it like you've just turned

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Speaker 4: around to announce it to the camera exactly, we should

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Speaker 4: do a commercial for Altovar. So if it's if you're

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Speaker 4: listening Fred from the Afterlife. So okay, this thing's been

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Speaker 4: around for more than a century. As the ghost stories start,

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Speaker 4: and over time it gets this reputation for bizarre experiences.

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Speaker 3: The things you'll read.

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Speaker 4: Most often in sort of the copypasta tour guide notes

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Speaker 4: are a ghostly figure wandering through the front entrance, a

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Speaker 4: painting whose subject appears to like track you wherever you move,

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Speaker 4: and so much more.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to it, but like.

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Speaker 4: First, not to be too much of a MythBuster, but

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Speaker 4: we all know what's up with a painting whose eyes

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Speaker 4: seem to follow you wherever you go, because we've all

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Speaker 4: seen that, Uncle Sam, I want you for the US

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Speaker 4: Army picture. It's just perspective that you can paint that

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Speaker 4: does not imply a ghost, That implies a pretty talented

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Speaker 4: artist at best. But it doesn't answer the questions about

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Speaker 4: the You guys saw the thing about the gravestone, right right, So.

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Speaker 5: A lot of these stories around, some of these alleged

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Speaker 5: hauntings at the hotel hinge on this mysterious gravestone hidden

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Speaker 5: and mixed the foliage. The foliage to the left across

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Speaker 5: the drive from the front entrance. It's humble small and

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Speaker 5: flat on the ground, bearing the very humble, small and

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Speaker 5: flat inscription Pearl A Ward eighteen seventy eight nineteen thirty four.

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Speaker 3: P I rl Right, I've never seen that spelling before. Pearl.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and a shout out to anybody who just heard

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Speaker 4: the ghostly squelches there as we're talking. That is indeed

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Speaker 4: my stomach, My stomach is now haunted.

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Speaker 6: We'll keep it in.

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Speaker 3: Get a meat pie, some fish and chips.

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Speaker 6: Is somebody guess where Ben is?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Gosh uh so in in in the red lodge apparently,

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Speaker 4: so this is this is weird to me because you

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Speaker 4: can we can paint such backstories off such small things.

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Speaker 3: Is Pearl p I r L?

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Speaker 4: Were Pearl's parents perhaps not very literate, and wanted to

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Speaker 4: name their kid after something precious? You know it always yeah,

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Speaker 4: breaks your heart. But we won't know because no one

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Speaker 4: is exactly sure who Ward Pearl Ward is or was well?

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Speaker 5: And is the hidden nature of the stone more a

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Speaker 5: product of if things were built around it, or was

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Speaker 5: it like obscured for a reason, you know, like the

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Speaker 5: questions do come up.

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Speaker 3: That is a great question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, can can the altovar somehow not afford landscaping. I mean,

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Speaker 4: is that just not in their budget? Do they want

358
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Speaker 4: it to seem like it's in disrepair. In some stories,

359
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Speaker 4: Pearl Ward is a cowboy who dies sort of drifting

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Speaker 4: through the area and no one knew their name, this

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Speaker 4: person's name when they buried him, and other stories, Pearl

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Speaker 4: is a she Pearls a female who is one of

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Speaker 4: the hostesses from the Harvey Hotel. They were called Harvey

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Speaker 4: Girls at the time, and according to that legend, she lived, worked,

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Speaker 4: and died.

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Speaker 3: Under unknown circumstances on the property those tours, Ben, it'd

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Speaker 3: be great.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just you should, Ben, But come on, Usually,

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Speaker 2: if this is someone who worked at the hotel, there's

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Speaker 2: no record of their passing in the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 4: Right exactly at that point, they would have had to

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Speaker 4: have something because it becomes increasingly suspicious, right, especially if

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Speaker 4: you're living on the property, you're working with tons of

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Speaker 4: other people in this big operation.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, entrepreneurs of that scale

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Speaker 5: in that era.

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Speaker 6: I would have wanted to cover their butts.

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Speaker 2: Okay, there's one scenario where I see it working. Hit

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Speaker 2: The gravestone was created by somebody who knew the truth

380
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Speaker 2: about what happened to Pearl ward this person that's not

381
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Speaker 2: actually where Pearl is buried. That has nothing to do

382
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Speaker 2: with that. It's to remind whoever did it, who works

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Speaker 2: and or owns the hotel, that of what they did.

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Speaker 6: Do we know what you did last summer and.

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Speaker 2: Every time you leave the property, you got to see

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Speaker 2: your gravestone.

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Speaker 4: We could also I mean maybe maybe that birth and

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Speaker 4: death date. Maybe it's some sort of code. Oh at

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Speaker 4: webs we weave?

390
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Speaker 5: And did they plant the hedge around it? Why didn't

391
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Speaker 5: they just dig it up?

392
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Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like just no one's exhumed

393
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Speaker 3: it exactly.

394
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Speaker 4: So is it all smoke and mirrors or we should

395
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Speaker 4: say stone and dirt.

396
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Speaker 2: Let don't have some shovels.

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Speaker 3: Boys, let's do it.

398
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Speaker 4: And you know what, when we're digging, what we need

399
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Speaker 4: to do is have two of us dig a one

400
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Speaker 4: of us be on the look I call look out. Okay,

401
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 4: the for the caped figure that is often reported to

402
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: exit the hotel's front stairs and entrance rocket a black

403
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 4: cape by the way, and then go over two pearls grave,

404
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 4: hang out there as if in contemplation for a minute,

405
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Speaker 4: and then wander off behind a nearby building called the

406
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Speaker 4: Hope House before disappearing.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and this is my favorite part about Eltovar Hotel.

408
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Speaker 2: There is an elderly gentleman that has been seen walking around.

409
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Speaker 2: He appears sometimes when there's a big party going on,

410
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Speaker 2: sometimes when there's no hardy at.

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Speaker 6: All, walking the grounds, you say.

412
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Speaker 2: Walking the grounds and or the house itself, the hotel,

413
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Speaker 2: and he's often giving you a little like if you

414
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: walk up to him as a guest or walk past him,

415
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: he's just kind of there for a moment. He's like, hey,

416
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Speaker 2: oh hey, make sure you head up to the ballroom.

417
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Speaker 2: We got the big gathering to get together. It's gonna

418
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Speaker 2: be a swell time. Head on up there. And guess

419
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: who people think that is?

420
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Speaker 3: Is it Fred Harvey?

421
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 2: Old Fred Harvey? But there is it is. It does

422
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: get a little weirder because the people see him all

423
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Speaker 2: over the place, right or somebody that they attribute to

424
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Speaker 2: Fred Harvey, but the timeline maybe doesn't match up so good.

425
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Speaker 4: Yeah, the profiling is a little weird too, because old

426
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Speaker 4: Man is not you know, the most specific thing, and

427
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: you know, the spooky, dooky part is when they show

428
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 4: up at this party, there's no record of them being invited.

429
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Speaker 4: They're like, this old man told me, and they're like,

430
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Speaker 4: what old.

431
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Speaker 5: Man, you've always been the caretakers exact, yeah, exactly.

432
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Speaker 2: There, or there's no party at all. The hotel staff

433
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: is like, what are you talking about?

434
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Speaker 3: You know, we don't have a holiday party for Arbor Day,

435
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Speaker 3: my friends.

436
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 5: I've always thought it was so interesting that Stanley Kubrick,

437
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 5: being such a snob, glombed onto the Shining, because it

438
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 5: is a bit of a broad you know, Stephen King

439
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 5: is a bit of a broad rider. But the Shining

440
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 5: there's something about it that does capitalize on all of

441
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: this stuff we're talking about, the idea of haunted places,

442
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 5: the idea of like what is the history the tortured

443
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 5: kind of legacy of a place or whatever it might be.

444
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: And a hotel is the perfect kind of like location

445
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 5: for stuff like that.

446
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's e liminal space exactly.

447
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: Think about how difficult it would have been to create

448
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: a giant hotel at the edge of the Grand Canyon

449
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: in the early nineteen hundreds, right late eighteen hundreds to

450
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: the like brand new nineteen hundreds. You're having that stuff

451
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: built and people are probably getting maimed and injured. Really

452
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: badly because you're so far from civilization, right there's you

453
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: can't can't send them on over to the local doctor

454
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: because there's no local doctor, you know, for a couple

455
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: hundred miles or whatever, right Like, that's insane, first of all.

456
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: And also I think this is for me the reasoning

457
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: behind the Fred Harvey sightings. If you were able to

458
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: achieve that feat of creating a giant building out in

459
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: the wilderness like that, you would be massively proud of it,

460
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: right or you, I think likely you'd be massively proud

461
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 2: of it, and it would be not only an achievement

462
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: of human ingenuity, but placing it where it is to

463
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: be able to look from from within that place you

464
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: built looking out upon the Grand Canyon must be I

465
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: don't know, very close to religious.

466
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 4: It's ozmendious look upon my works, he mighty. And there's

467
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 4: one catch though, As as much as I agree with

468
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 4: you there, Matt on that on that excellent observation, Fred

469
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: never got to see this particular feat because he himself

470
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 4: passed away in nineteen oh one, four years before the

471
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 4: completion of.

472
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: That's why he's there, Ben. He never got to see

473
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: it in real life. So now he's got to hang

474
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: out there for just give people, like be their personal

475
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: concierge and.

476
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: Lie at them about when the party's going.

477
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: In his timeline, there as a party and he's super

478
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: excited about it, and he liked.

479
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. It's like a superimposed reality.

480
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 3: And I love it.

481
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 4: I'm a huge propos I actually kind of believe in

482
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 4: some of that stuff, but our beliefs or our own.

483
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 4: This is one of the most famous stories, but there

484
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 4: are two other incidents. You can find them reported in

485
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: the local newspapers usually around Halloween. To be honest with you,

486
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: there's a couple from New Jersey and in the story

487
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 4: no timeline attributed. This is the Griffiths couple and they

488
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 4: they woke up in the night. The wife woke up

489
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 4: because an unseen presence was quote pulling on her clothing

490
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night. I don't know about

491
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 4: you guys, but when I first read that, I immediately

492
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 4: thought there was a ghost who was like, get dressed, lady,

493
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 4: and started like throwing her dress on her slacks or whatever.

494
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: But no, it was just like tugging at her PJS.

495
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 5: I saw this meme the other day where it was

496
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 5: like every HP Lovecraft story. It's like I saw a

497
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 5: monsters what was it like?

498
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't describe it, but let me spend four

499
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 4: pages doing just that.

500
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: Shout out Lovecraft. I like Lovecraft, but yeah I.

501
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 6: Had some problematic views. Yeah. Yeah.

502
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: But as for the clothes pulling, that's that's weird. I

503
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: would not enjoy that. But you know, maybe your maybe

504
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: your clothes got stuck, or maybe I would enjoy it.

505
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 6: I don't know.

506
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: I don't know situation. I guess it depends you guys.

507
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: Seeing that that film from back in the day called

508
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: High Spirits starring Liam Neeson, it's.

509
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 5: Not when he was in his rom com era kind of.

510
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: It's a nineteen eighty eight fantasy comedy about uh oh

511
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 4: wait it's is it Liam Neeson? Yeah, it is Liam Neeson.

512
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 4: It's about a haunted castle that is being turned into

513
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: a tourist destination and the ghosts have you know, lovable

514
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: high jinks, Beetlejuice esque with the with a visiting couple

515
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: played by Daryl Hannah and Steve Gutenberg.

516
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 6: Oh, Daryl Hannah was such a babe.

517
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: There's a close pulling scene in there that may not

518
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: have aged well.

519
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 5: Steve, I cannot believe Steve Gutenberg was ever like a

520
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: leading man.

521
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 6: He is.

522
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 5: Late Daryl Hannah is so above Steve Gutenberg's pay grade

523
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 5: it's not even funny.

524
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: Well, you know Hollywood magic, right.

525
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 5: Uh.

526
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 4: Speaking of Hollywood magic, there's a couple from Los Angeles

527
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: who said the following At the Alto var they walked

528
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: past their television and stopped because when they looked at

529
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: the screen there was the face of a bearded old

530
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 4: man peering back at them. And I was trying to

531
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 4: figure out more about this tale, which gets just tossed

532
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 4: around so often. It doesn't seem that any investigator asked them, Well,

533
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: was the television on? I feel like that might explain it.

534
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the duck was a duck show with

535
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: all the big bearded guys, duck hunters.

536
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 6: Duck show. Wow, I got there? Or you know?

537
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: Or could it? Was it a reflection in the black mirror?

538
00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 6: Right?

539
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: Was the person actually in the room.

540
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 5: Perhaps the guy just needed a shave and didn't realize

541
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 5: how how much he'd let himself go.

542
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: Maybe it was a window and they didn't understand televisions.

543
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 4: I don't know, dude, Maybe they were just I'm gonna

544
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 4: say it, maybe they were high.

545
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 5: High spirits. Indeed, by the way, I was just watching

546
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 5: a trailer for that movie. I've never seen hide nor

547
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 5: hear of this, and it looks like a delight.

548
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: It's fine. I loved it. Yeah, it's it's a fun romp.

549
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: Es.

550
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that it's of that era. It's of that era,

551
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: but not of that caliber.

552
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: So there are a couple other things in Grand Canyon.

553
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: Really quickly. I just want to throw out here if

554
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: anybody ends up going there, because I've not been and

555
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: I want to go now. Of course, there's a place

556
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: called the Phantom Ranch that exists there that allegedly there's

557
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: this this thing called Phantom Ranch. There's a it's the property,

558
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: I guess, that's called the Phantom Ranch. There's a place

559
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: called Phantom Creek within the park that is in immediately

560
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: adjacent to it. And according to the stories, the folklore,

561
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: there's this guy named John Wesley Powell who set that

562
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: thing up. All right, this is in the eighteen sixties

563
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: eighteen seventies when all of this is happening, and he's

564
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: this one armed person who was in the Civil War.

565
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: He's considered a hero. He did not die there. According

566
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: to the folklore. But again kind of like how we

567
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: were joking around about mister Harvey. It's thought that this

568
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: guy was proud of this achievement or he it was

569
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: in some way impactful in his life. So his spirit

570
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: haunts this Phantom Ranch, which is aptly named, I must say, but.

571
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 6: It does and very Scooby Doo.

572
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 5: Sorry, the Phantom Ranch, Scooby Doo, and the Phantom Ranch

573
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 5: it does.

574
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: But there's this the little twist thing to it, and

575
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: that a lot of the folklore in the Grand Canyon,

576
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: I feel like, has this kind of thing. There's another

577
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: place within the Grand Canyon call Bright Angel Creek and

578
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: there are there were huge stones from that creek bed

579
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: in that area that were used to build a lot

580
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: of the structures in Phantom Ranch. So you've got angels

581
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: worked in there, right, and phantoms just in the names,

582
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: which feels like a great way to sell sell people are.

583
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: Going, and rumors of giants back in the days. There

584
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 4: was also, of course, we're not joking about the ancient

585
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 4: civilization thing. Check out our earlier episode on that. That

586
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 4: was a weird comment on reporting of the time as well.

587
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and one other thing, guys, this story of

588
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: we've we've heard so many tales like this when we've

589
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: covered ghost stories. A crying woman right out in the

590
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: woods somewhere that you can't really see this person, but

591
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: you hear the whiling. Yeah, exactly that. But it's it's

592
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: again a twist on that. Right, you can look up

593
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: a place called Transsept Trail t R A N s

594
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: e Pt Trail where I think it was again, I

595
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: think it was the nineteen thirties. There's a place called

596
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: the Grand Canyon Lodge that burned up and after that fire,

597
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: it's thought that some spirit involved in some way haunts

598
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: that area.

599
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: To this day, in this very day, and here we

600
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: can already see those common traits of folklore stories told repeatedly.

601
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 4: Small changes over time give it a twist to make

602
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: your lier on a different and then there's always a

603
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 4: lack of certain specificity. It adds to the overall mystery

604
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 4: and at the same time it makes it increasingly difficult

605
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: to nail down some concrete facts. We'll see this in

606
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 4: other ghost stories as well. What do you guys think,

607
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 4: should we take a break and go to some more examples. Absolutely,

608
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 4: and we have returned. Now we're traveling to Yellowstone And

609
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 4: you know, we talked about this a little bit off air.

610
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: You can find the history of Yellowstone Park, the history

611
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 4: of all these parks. Really, we're not gonna spend too

612
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 4: much time on them. We wanted to get to some

613
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: of the juicy ghost stories speaking of haunted female figures,

614
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 4: haunted women. Here's when Matt Nole we I think all

615
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: read about this one, the Headless Bride of the Old

616
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 4: Faithful in yet again another in with an interesting, unique

617
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 4: experience of the paranormal.

618
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an inn, but it's not in love. You

619
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Don't force others to marry people

620
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: they don't want to marry. That's the story of the

621
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: Old Faithful Inn.

622
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 4: Just don't do it, even when you know it's not

623
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 4: gonna work out, don't do it, you know what I mean.

624
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: You gotta let people do what they want.

625
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 4: And you can find this story of the Headless Bride

626
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 4: all over the place, including the official website Yellowstone Park

627
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: dot com.

628
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: It goes like this.

629
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 4: Back in nineteen fifteen, there's this guy in New York

630
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: and he's sort of a blue blood. He's the one

631
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 4: percenter of his day. He owns a shipping company country here.

632
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: He owns a shipping company, and he's got a rebellious

633
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: teenage daughter just full of hijinks, and he has arranged

634
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 4: a marriage for her with a young guy from an

635
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 4: equally wealthy New York family. But she says, no, you

636
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 4: can't control me, old man. I'm in love with an

637
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 4: unnamed household servant.

638
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 2: Right.

639
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 3: Right.

640
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: So Dad's like, ah, this guy's got bad intentions, unnamed person.

641
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: But you know, despite the father's let's say issues with

642
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: the person that his daughter's going to marry, she went

643
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: in and did it. She got hitched.

644
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: She did.

645
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 4: Indeed, she said, unnamed older household servant, I am in

646
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 4: love with you. And the dad was bad about this,

647
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 4: but she would brook no argument. He tried to talk

648
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 4: her out of it, and he said, look, this is

649
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 4: not just me being a stodgy, bossy old man. I

650
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 4: am genuinely concerned that this dude's intentions for you are

651
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 4: not romantic. I think he has an evil, sinister plan.

652
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 4: And you know, in the modern day parlance, he thinks

653
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 4: that this guy's a gold digger. And she says, I'm

654
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 4: not going to hear it. She goes ahead, she gets married.

655
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 4: The father tries to make a poison pill, as we

656
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 4: would call it in corporate mergers and acquisitions. He says, Okay,

657
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 4: if you guys want to get married, I will give

658
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 4: you an extravagant dowry as your wedding gift. And as

659
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 4: a condition of this dowry, you have to agree you

660
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: as a couple, have to agree that you are getting

661
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 4: no more additional support from our family. Ever, you're not

662
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 4: getting an inherent and so you're not getting a share

663
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 4: of the business fleetwood Max style, go your own way.

664
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, you need to leave New

665
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 4: York forever. According to the story, this was a bluff

666
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 4: on the father's part. He thought this would force these

667
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 4: people to call off the wedding because it would remove

668
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 4: the servant's access to the larger fortune.

669
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 3: His gamble was a failure. The couple said, okay, yeah,

670
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 3: we agree. Because we're so much.

671
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 4: In love, we're going to go have a baller honeymoon

672
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 4: at Yellowstone and we're going to stay at the hottest

673
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 4: inn for We're going to stay at the hottest in

674
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 4: for honeymoons, the old faithful in. And there's a little

675
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: specificity here because they were staying at Room one twenty seven.

676
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: That doesn't always happen in these ghost stories. We know,

677
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 4: the Old Faithful In was pretty new at the time.

678
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 4: It was still less than ten years old. It was

679
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 4: the scene and be seen place for family vacations. But

680
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 4: as we heard from various versions of the legend, things

681
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 4: went wrong for the couple very quickly.

682
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, why is it important that they were in room

683
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: one twenty seven. Well, that's because there was a huge

684
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: argument in that room that other people heard on let's say,

685
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 2: The Faithful Night. And why were they arguing This is

686
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: a happy new couple, they're on their honeymoon. Well, according

687
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: to the story, it's because the new husband basically did

688
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: kind of what the father was warning the daughter he

689
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: was going to do, or what he was about. Allegedly,

690
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: according to the stories, he was gambling a ton, and

691
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: not just while hanging out somewhere at the Old Faithful Inn,

692
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 2: while they were making their way to the end, right

693
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: and hanging out in tavern, spending a ton of money

694
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: on drinks and all that kind of stuff. And they

695
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: were arguing because basically the guy blew through all the

696
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: money they had and they couldn't even afford to pay

697
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 2: the bill at the old, faithful.

698
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 4: Right, which makes the staff a lot less helpful. And

699
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 4: about a month into the honeymoon, you.

700
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: Know there, squiches a long honeymoon.

701
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: I was thinking that too, you know what I mean, Like,

702
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 4: I get that they're wealthy, but I I read that

703
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 4: with no small amount of envy. The idea, it's up

704
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 4: there with the idea of people in this in that

705
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 4: day and age saying oh, well, we're abroad to Europe

706
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: for the summer. I do love the continent, not too

707
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: long a stay, merely a third month or so. And

708
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 4: it was just a different, different world, right, because it

709
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 4: would it would take it would take a significant it

710
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 4: would take a significant amount of work for us, any

711
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 4: of us to figure out a way to not be

712
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 4: at work for a month.

713
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: But uh, but there we have it.

714
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: And it turns out that kind of privilege doesn't necessarily

715
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 4: make people happy, Like you said, Matt, It goes to

716
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 4: this one night the couple had already been arguing on

717
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 4: a regular basis. It was the scandal of the hotel,

718
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 4: and the daughter had called her father for help and

719
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 4: he refused, kind of cold, but he set those terms

720
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 4: and during this very violent, louder than usual shouting match.

721
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 4: On this evening, the husband storms out, never to be

722
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: seen again.

723
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 3: The hotel staff gives the bride her privacy for a while,

724
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 3: after about two days. It's a weird number. But after

725
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 3: about two days they go to room one twenty seven

726
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: to check on her. She's not going to be like,

727
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: where is our money? Right?

728
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 4: And also sorry about your loss. Also you owe us

729
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: for this plus these other two days.

730
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: Call your dad.

731
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 4: And the maid who is looking around because you know

732
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 4: how hotels are laid out. When you walk in, there

733
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: might be a foyer or a hallway and you'll see

734
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: like a maybe a living room, suite or a bedroom.

735
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 4: First you have to walk in into the restroom. It's

736
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 4: not clearly visible. So she walks into the restroom or

737
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 4: the bathroom, and she screams because the bride's corpse is

738
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 4: filling the bathtub. It's riddled with blood. It's a dexter

739
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: level or animal level crime scene. It's got all the

740
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: ingredients of true crime except one thing's missing.

741
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: Her head.

742
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, head's missing. Bodies in there, lots of blood.

743
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: Not great, not great for the bathtub. For you know,

744
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: the reputation of the hotel, especially for the new bride,

745
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: probably not great for her, and they basically looked for

746
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: the head. They didn't notice the husband carrying you know,

747
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: a human head when he stormed out, which you know,

748
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: obviously he is the suspect, right, the last person to

749
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: be seen with this person. They were arguing a whole lot.

750
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: What I think the tales say they searched the property

751
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 2: for like a week or maybe even longer.

752
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they searched up and down across the hotel

753
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 4: property for yeah, at least a week. The amount of

754
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: time they's been searching varies depending on the version of

755
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 4: the tail you hear, but it was definitely more than

756
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 4: just like a one afternoon search. We know this because

757
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 4: they did eventually find the head. They found it due

758
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: to the smell emanating from an elevated area, the highest

759
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 4: interior point of the hotel called the Crow's Nest, where

760
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 4: the band would play and just to pause there. That's

761
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 4: a really cool idea to have the band playing from

762
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 4: that elevated area. But somebody, somebody got a bad width

763
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 4: figured out something was rotten in the Crow's Nest and

764
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 4: they went up there, and you guessed it, that's where

765
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 4: they found the head rotting away. And ever since then,

766
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 4: guests have reported seeing a ghostly woman walking down the

767
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 4: stairs of the Crow's Nest in her white dress, carrying

768
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 4: her head under her arm. This is brought to you

769
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: by under Armour.

770
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, no.

771
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: Stally fine, but you know, this is one of those

772
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: stories where it's on the official website.

773
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 4: It very much is. It's on the official website. It's

774
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 4: on numerous blogs about the area. You can find it

775
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 4: published as fact in multiple like collection of paranormal Things

776
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: paperbacks you know which we grew up loving. And you

777
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 4: have to ask yourself, is this true? Is this false?

778
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 4: Is this embellished?

779
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's got to be helping the hotel in some

780
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: way to even be to have a place on their website,

781
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: right exactly. If it hurt, you would just leave it off,

782
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 2: and you could, you know, anyone who was interested could

783
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: go to any other blog that's out there that writes

784
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: about these things. But if you went to the official

785
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: Yellowstone website, not there, leaving everybody who is you know,

786
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 2: thinking about going, oh well maybe that's just a tall tale.

787
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: When you put it on the website like that, I

788
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: feel like it gives it such credence or it lends

789
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 2: so much more credibility. Yeah, I guess it is credibility

790
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: legitimacy here. It's just weird to do that unless unless

791
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: gonna make some profit.

792
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: Exactly.

793
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: It's what we kind of were setting up at the

794
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 4: at the top and through all this, we can tell

795
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: you the truth about this story for sure. It's this

796
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 4: Ghosts are only real when someone was decapitate it. It's

797
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 4: the only time scientifically proven that's a real headless horseman

798
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 4: is a thing. Yeah, it's proven French Revolution. That's why

799
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 4: they still have ghost or or we're funning with you,

800
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 4: just like the assistant manager of the Old Faithful In

801
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 4: George Borman, who made the whole thing up. He's got

802
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: a nineteen ninety one interview with Desert News and he says, Okay,

803
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,959
Speaker 4: here's what happened. I was in the hotel one time

804
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 4: when it was deserted overlook style, and I heard some

805
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 4: footsteps down the hallway, and I walked out and looked

806
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 4: because there was nobody there but me and one or

807
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 4: two other employees, and I couldn't find anybody who could

808
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 4: have run down that hallway at that time outside of

809
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: my room. And so I went and looked again, and

810
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 4: I saw nobody. He says, he went and looked three times,

811
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 4: and he said later this got him thinking, huh, what

812
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 4: if there was a ghost story for the Old Faithful

813
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 4: in that would be interesting, that would add a hint

814
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 4: of mystery to the inns vibes. And so he says

815
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 4: he made the whole thing up in nineteen eighty three,

816
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 4: and then ever since that moment, because he was still

817
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 4: working there for a while, he says, people would come

818
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 4: to him and repeat the fictitious story to him, and

819
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: like even to the point of like man explaining his

820
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 4: own story to him.

821
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: Nice. Nice, There's more, there's more telephone details, sir, to

822
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: this story. That's that's fascinating. It checks out to me.

823
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 4: However, not all of the ghostly activities or alleged paranormal

824
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 4: experiences of these different parts have such simple explanations. And

825
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 4: you know, I think it's really important for us to

826
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 4: point out as well that it goes into this expectation

827
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 4: idea that Noel mentioned earlier, the idea that we have

828
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 4: to the idea that people came into Old Faithful having

829
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 4: heard that story, perhaps accepted it as fact, and we're

830
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 4: therefore on some level primed to see or experience something. However,

831
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 4: we we have other cases where the answer is not

832
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 4: so clear cut. We got to go to a cool

833
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 4: place next a place called Mammoth Cave. And you know

834
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 4: we're talking about this off air Mammoth Cave. When you

835
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 4: say we want to go to it, we don't just

836
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 4: mean go to it in this conversation. We want to

837
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 4: go as a crew.

838
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's just go ahead and mention it at

839
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: the top. We want to do this thing called the

840
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 2: Violet City Lantern Tour. Yeah, where because this is okay,

841
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: So Mammoth Cave. It's the longest known cave system in

842
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: the world. It's got four hundred and twenty six miles

843
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 2: worth of cave that you can kind of check out.

844
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: Some of the areas you can't check out, and there

845
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 2: are new areas being discovered still, which is my going.

846
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 3: To the extent.

847
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 4: Also, I love I love the worth of cave. Like,

848
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 4: how many miles worth of cave is this before I

849
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 4: pave for the tour?

850
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 2: Four twenty six miles? And what they do with this,

851
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 2: I was going to say, velvet With this Violet City

852
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 2: Lantern Tour, they shut down all the lights because there's

853
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: a ton of human made light that exists in the

854
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: cave system so that when people go on tours they

855
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 2: can see right, nobody gets hurt. There's illumination via electricity

856
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 2: throughout the cave system. But in these tours they turn

857
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: off those lights and they've got lanterns and they take

858
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 2: you through the cave by a lantern light. I want

859
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: to do that because it appears that there's more than

860
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: just bats down in them caves. Oh there's coughing. Wait

861
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: a second, I know this story. Bed.

862
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 4: Also, we should mention this story scares our colleague Gnols

863
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 4: so much that he has left the episode for today. Actually,

864
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 4: we're kidding, is a little bit under the weather with

865
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 4: the bit of a cough, and will be rejoining us soon,

866
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 4: But for now, he gives us his blessing and wishes

867
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 4: us to continue the subterranean exploration.

868
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: Oh yes, So let's put our minds in the place

869
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: of being inside a system that consists of four hundred

870
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: twenty six miles of cave worth of cave worth of cave.

871
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 2: Imagine being there, deep beneath within the earth, let's say,

872
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: and just what your mind, the tricks your mind would

873
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 2: play on you, and the other worldly things you might

874
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: imagine could be down there.

875
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 4: Oh sure, yeah, I mean it's true because subterranean flora

876
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 4: and fauna are still being discovered. We don't know how

877
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: far these cave systems go. We don't know what's living

878
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 4: in there. There's some cave systems that are for all

879
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 4: intents and purposes sealed off. They've become their own ecosystems,

880
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 4: unreliant upon sunlight and all those things surface dwellers love.

881
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 4: We can also we can also say that for most

882
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 4: people who have never been in absolute darkness, and being

883
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 4: an absolute darkness will lead you to hallucinate.

884
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: Yes, Now, let's bring in the history of this cave system,

885
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: or at least the the like American version, I guess,

886
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: the the Anglo centric existence of this cave and the

887
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: history of that, because it is, it gets dark pretty quickly.

888
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: The wasn't it purchased for some I mean, I guess

889
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: it was a fairly large sum back then, but like

890
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars US.

891
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 4: Yes, ten thousand dollars in eighteen thirty nine, and we

892
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 4: can borrow a bit from our handy inflation calculator, ten

893
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 4: thousand dollars in eighteen thirty nine is the equivalent of

894
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 4: three hundred and twenty nine eight hundred and thirty four

895
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 4: dollars today, so very expensive. But still that's a lot

896
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 4: cheaper than I thought a cave system would cost.

897
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, a huge cave system that was not again like

898
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: it not its super early stages of mapping, but early. Right,

899
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: A lot has been discovered since then. But he didn't

900
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,959
Speaker 2: just buy the cave system itself. In the property above

901
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: the caves, he also bought humans.

902
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: He did.

903
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 4: The deal included you know, adjacent property, and they defined

904
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 4: adjacent property as also enslaved human beings because again this

905
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 4: was eighteen thirty nine, and one of the enslaved people

906
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: that he took ownership of as part of this deal

907
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 4: was a cave guide named Stefan Bishop. And at this point,

908
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: Bishop probably knew the caverns better than any other person alive.

909
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 4: And I really appreciate that you point out we're starting

910
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: the story from the kind of Anglo central view, because

911
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: native populations again knew about this cave for thousands, thousands

912
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 4: and thousands of years.

913
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: Bishops has a celebrated important places for those cultures. It's

914
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 2: not yeah, it's not just a cave.

915
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 4: It has immense cultural and spiritual significance. Doctor Krogan does

916
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 4: not care about that. He doesn't give a damn about it.

917
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 4: He immediately starts tours. And so Stephan Bishop is giving

918
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 4: people these amazing tours. He's showing them Echo River where

919
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 4: blind albino fish have evolved, miles of all these unique

920
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 4: twisting passageways. Meanwhile, on the surface, doctor Krogan is busying

921
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 4: himself brainstorming new ways to monetize this natural wonder, to

922
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: turn it into a cash cow, to make his ten

923
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 4: thousand back as soon as possible, and then just make

924
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 4: more and more money. And you and I were talking

925
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 4: off air about is more his strange idea, one of

926
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 4: the strangest that he put into place. It was the

927
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 4: idea that he could build a special camp inside the

928
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 4: cave for people suffering from tuberculosis or consumption as it

929
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 4: was called in the day.

930
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's a good idea for

931
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 2: something to try.

932
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 3: It's not trying, I agree, you know.

933
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: Well, because a lot was there wasn't a lot known

934
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 2: about what could actually like, what are the conditions that

935
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: would help someone get over tuberculosis?

936
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 6: Right?

937
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: And the thought came up, well, what if this the

938
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: low relatively low temperatures of the cave system compared to

939
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 2: the outside world at the time. What if those temperatures

940
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: would be conducive to reducing the effects of tuberculosis on

941
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 2: the human body. Maybe again worth a shot. So they

942
00:53:55,239 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: actually built a fairly large area included. There are several

943
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 2: they call them huts, but they're these like they look

944
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 2: almost like it does look like a hut, I guess,

945
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: but it's a mini little stone and wooden structure.

946
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they call the hut, call it a cabin somewhere

947
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 3: in between.

948
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're tiny, but it's enough for a human being

949
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: to be in and not to live comfortably, but to survive, right,

950
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: I think I don't know how many they built, but

951
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: they built a bunch of them, and there are two

952
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: that remain to this day that you can go visit.

953
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 6: Uh.

954
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think most of the reporting I read said

955
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 4: that you originally had eleven huts built in there, and

956
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 4: the idea was that you would get fifteen patients, which

957
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 4: means some of the patients were couples, because that's you know,

958
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 4: or maybe parent and child or siblings. But they say

959
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 4: fifteen patients arrived, and honestly, folks, we don't know whether

960
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 4: these patients genuinely believe this treatment would work. But we

961
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 4: can only imagine, given what you described met at this time,

962
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 4: that they were desperate enough to try anything.

963
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 6: You know.

964
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 4: That's kind of it's like when we look at cancer

965
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 4: cure conspiracies and the con artist involved in sort of

966
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 4: bilking desperate people. As far as we can tell, doctor

967
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 4: Krogan is not himself a con artist. He is actually

968
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 4: trying to see whether this will assist people who are

969
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 4: suffering from consumption. However, as history reprove, this treatment did

970
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 4: not work, two patients died that same year. All fifteen

971
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 4: of the patients got worse. Doctor Crogan himself would go

972
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 4: on to die from tuberculosis in eighteen forty nine.

973
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, ten years after you buy the cave system. He

974
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: does of tuberculosis too, So you might imagine, oh, there's

975
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: been some death in this cave that we know of,

976
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 2: and we can tribute tuberculosis to those deaths. That that

977
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 2: disease comes with a lot of coughing. It would make

978
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 2: sense right to hear coughing in the distance somewhere within

979
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: the cave system, right as you're touring through it, especially

980
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 2: by lantern.

981
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 3: Light, especially by lantern.

982
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you elect to take the Violet City tour

983
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 4: of the cave, the tour guides will take you to

984
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 4: that blackout like you described, Matt, where you actually go

985
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 4: down into the dark that most people have not experienced.

986
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 4: And then they'll give you the tour with the oil

987
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 4: lamp and they'll tell you the stories and you can

988
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 4: actually see remnants of this tuberculosis camp experiment. That is

989
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 4: a real thing, that's not a legend. And some rangers

990
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 4: will tell you that they have experienced strange things down there,

991
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 4: that they have seen shoves from unseen forces, They've heard

992
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 4: inexplicable footsteps, or coughing in the distance, or even being

993
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 4: grabbed or touched when they knew there were no other

994
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 4: people around. I have a question for you, man, because

995
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 4: you know I go to you for audio advice often.

996
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: Is it possible with the acoustics of a cavern that

997
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 4: you could frank someone with ghost coughing? Like could you

998
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 4: be far enough away around a bend or something and

999
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 4: cough and have the cough reflect off the stone to

1000
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 4: reach the person observing the camp.

1001
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: I don't know the science behind that, Ben. What I

1002
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 2: would do is get a really long tube that is

1003
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: highly flexible. I got set it up at one end

1004
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: of it higher up in the cave system, and then

1005
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 2: I would have it go all the way down to

1006
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 2: lower in the cave system, and I would do a

1007
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: little cough into the tube, okay, at one side or

1008
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: the other, and make everybody think the cough's coming from

1009
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: way up there or way down.

1010
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 4: There ever, Okay, because I was thinking, you might say,

1011
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 4: set up like a time delay motion sensor with w

1012
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 4: with a speaker, so that it doesn't start coughing right

1013
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 4: when you trip the wire, but or trip the light,

1014
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 4: but it starts coughing, you know, four minutes after.

1015
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: So I think, love it. I love the way you think.

1016
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: In his high tech I'm going to say the tube

1017
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: system is the way I'm going imagine the sound of

1018
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: dragging the tube back to your location after you've used it.

1019
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: How long is this tube? Wait? It's huge? Crazy, it awkward?

1020
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 3: You know what, Let's do both.

1021
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 2: Let's do both.

1022
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: Uh how much will they sell the caves for this? Is?

1023
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 4: We do have specific folks like one guide, Larry Purcell,

1024
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 4: had another story.

1025
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 3: He went on.

1026
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 4: Record and he said that he experienced something unrelated to

1027
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 4: the tuberculosis camp that terrified him.

1028
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 3: He said, he was.

1029
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 4: Giving in tour and during some part of this tour,

1030
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 4: it was the Violet City tour, he noticed an African

1031
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 4: American family standing behind the rest of the group and

1032
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 4: he was surprised to see them because he hadn't noticed

1033
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 4: any African American tourist in this particular group. And he said, huh,

1034
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 4: it's crazy. The father is wearing a white panama hat

1035
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 4: and he's watching with rapt attention as we're giving the

1036
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 4: oil lamp tour, right. And then when he reached the

1037
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 4: part where they turn off the oil lamp and turn

1038
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 4: the electric lights back on, he looks for this family

1039
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 4: and he can't find anybody. There were just extra people

1040
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 4: there when the oil lamp was on.

1041
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thanks, extra people while the oil lamp was on.

1042
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: Don't like that phrase. Don't like any of them.

1043
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it reminds me when we went on our brief

1044
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 4: excursion to the Hoover Dam. I think that's a close

1045
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 4: recent comparison for US. Hoover Dam very much man made cavern.

1046
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 4: But what we saw is that the tour guides at regular,

1047
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 4: frequent intervals, we're counting the number of people in the group.

1048
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: That's why sometimes there are extra families.

1049
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 4: Oh man, I love that idea. Okay, so do octopus

1050
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 4: believe in ghosts? And then the extra extra tour guide members. Okay, gold, Jerry,

1051
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 4: we're making gold here, Rebel Stiltskin style, all right. Apparently

1052
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 4: the room where the rangers saw this family is called

1053
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 4: the Methodist Church because miners used to have religious services

1054
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 4: there when they were exploring resources in the cave, and

1055
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 4: during those days, because of the rampant racism, if an

1056
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 4: African American guide or his family attended the services, they

1057
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 4: would have to stand back at a distance. Wow, I

1058
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 4: know it's a bummer. And those two things aren't necessarily related.

1059
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 4: They're the kind of things that have just enough commonality

1060
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: for people to put some red string together, turn down

1061
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 4: the lights and tell you it's scary.

1062
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, Why don't we Why don't we

1063
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: pause here? We've got a few more parks to visit

1064
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 2: before we're done today. But we need to hear a

1065
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, so we'll be right back.

1066
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 3: And we have returned.

1067
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: Let's visit we don't if we don't do anything else,

1068
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 4: let's at least visit the Devil's Dead.

1069
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 3: We've got other places to go.

1070
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 4: Like you said, Matt, every single national park has some

1071
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,919
Speaker 4: kind of ghost story, and we will tell you why

1072
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 4: by the way at the end. But the Devil's Dead

1073
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 4: is in Gettysburg National Military Park, Matt. Have you visited Gettysburg.

1074
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: I feel like I did as a kid, but I

1075
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,959
Speaker 2: have no recollection of actually going through there. Yeah, because

1076
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: it's getting muddled with other Civil War parts I've been to.

1077
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 4: Right, because we've seen a lot of Civil War parks

1078
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 4: in our time. Yeah, this is a site commemorating one

1079
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 4: of the most historically significant and a very bloody battle

1080
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 4: of the US Civil War. There is a site in

1081
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 4: the park called the Devil's Den. It's world famous amid

1082
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 4: paranormal investigators, ghost hunters, psychics, you name it. And it's

1083
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 4: really interesting to look at pictures because it's like, imagine

1084
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 4: if you are if you are a Union or Confederate

1085
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 4: soldier and you are in the midst of you know,

1086
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 4: unreliable ammunition. You're probably not feeling great because you've been malnourished,

1087
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 4: you're probably suffering from some disease, and you're being forced

1088
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 4: to fight Napoleonic style, which means you're told to line

1089
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 4: up and then just sort of march at each other

1090
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 4: and hope you don't get shot. It's a really shy

1091
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 4: way to wage war, honestly. So if you're in that situation,

1092
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 4: you need to make friends with geography. So a place

1093
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 4: with a bunch of boulders is great. You can break

1094
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 4: up your death march line. You can hide behind rocks

1095
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 4: long enough to reload without getting shot. This also the

1096
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 4: same advantage carries on to the enemy forces. So it's

1097
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 4: no surprise that the Devil's Den became a bloodbath.

1098
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I kind of want to describe it

1099
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: a little bit more. You found a great description from

1100
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 2: someone named Mark Nesbitt, and I guess we should just

1101
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 2: the quote is awesome, Ben, do you want to just

1102
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: do it?

1103
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 3: You should do it, You should do it?

1104
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 6: All right?

1105
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: Well, okay, this is what it looks like, according to

1106
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 2: Mark Nesbitt, who was a paranormal investigator and a former

1107
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 2: park ranger, which that is very important. Here's how he

1108
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: describes it quote, the Devil's Den looks like some giant

1109
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 2: just dropped these huge boulders the size of houses down

1110
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 2: onto this one spot on the battlefield. On a sunny day.

1111
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: It's not too bad on a cloudy day. It's kind

1112
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 2: of ominous at night. It's just ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. I

1113
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: love as in it's creepy, right, that's that's what he's implying.

1114
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1115
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I like to point out he is a

1116
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 4: former park ranger. He's also the owner of the Ghost

1117
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 4: of Gettysburg tours. Uh, he's coming there with experience, but

1118
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: also it's good for him if you go on a

1119
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:39,919
Speaker 4: ghost tour.

1120
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the way. He said.

1121
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 4: He would often get the willies when he was just

1122
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 4: walking around the area at night doing security checks. And

1123
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 4: he spoke in depth with our pals at how stuff works,

1124
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 4: about this are alma matter, how SFT works. And he

1125
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 4: wrote a book or he wrote a book series I

1126
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 4: should say, called Go of Gettysburg, wherein he chronicles a

1127
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 4: lot of unexplained experiences at Devil's Den. And they have

1128
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 4: all the you know, all the usual stripes of folklore,

1129
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 4: right often unnamed people. The timeline is a little vague,

1130
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 4: but the experience itself is sobering. One lady said she

1131
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 4: was climbing around the boulders with a friend. She felt

1132
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 4: a hand grab her ankle. Could it be her friend?

1133
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 4: She looks down she sees a ghostly soldier grabbing for her.

1134
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 4: She screams for help. She looks up, Oh, and there's

1135
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 4: her friend. Her Friend's not touching her at all. She

1136
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 4: looks back down. The man's gone.

1137
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 3: Whoa stranger danger.

1138
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 2: Gotta love a good ankle grab.

1139
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 3: M let's take full Can we cut that? Keep it

1140
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 3: out of context. I'll never forget.

1141
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 4: Well, my good friend Matt told me all those years ago,

1142
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 4: you gotta love a good ankle grab.

1143
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: I don't know how that would be in a weird way,

1144
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 2: but that's that's to me. Just uh, that's one of

1145
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: the creepiest things that I remember having to me as

1146
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: a kid. My sister like, be under the bed and

1147
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 2: grab my ankle.

1148
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: Just frightening.

1149
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 4: Right, It's a very vulnerable part of your body. And

1150
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 4: then additionally, since you're laying down you're trying to go

1151
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,919
Speaker 4: to sleep, that's terrifying. That's terrified to the point where

1152
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 4: even if you know how it happened, Yeah, like you

1153
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 4: see your sister, I would still be furious.

1154
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it feels fun though. I think that's why

1155
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 2: I like horror movies. Now, I'm not sure.

1156
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 4: We enjoy the things that scarred us, right, I'm in

1157
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 4: a similar situation. Well there's there's the other one that's

1158
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 4: a little bit less weird, which is did you see

1159
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 4: this the helpful hippie story?

1160
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one's This one's great. This one is like, oh, man,

1161
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm lost, where do I go? I don't know what

1162
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 2: to do? And then an apparition appears out of nowhere

1163
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 2: and says, it's over.

1164
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 3: There, man, exactly that way.

1165
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 2: Look where you're looking for is over there.

1166
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 7: And then you look in that direction and then you

1167
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 7: look back and he's gone, wow, and he's like flower child,

1168
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 7: weird hat all like picture the hippie.

1169
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 4: It's the hippie stereotype. He's got a shoulder length hair,

1170
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 4: bare feet, you know. And Nesbit says this, we'll give

1171
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 4: you what Nesbit says. First, he says, I can't believe

1172
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 4: she's describing exactly what a Texan looked like at the

1173
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 4: Battle of Gettysburg. She would not have known that as

1174
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 4: a tourist. However, with great respect, mister Nesbit, we have

1175
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 4: a proposition for you here. A lot of people do

1176
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 4: live off the grid in national parks, you know, and

1177
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 4: there are people who wander from park to park or

1178
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 4: live in nomadic existence, like the people who follow rain

1179
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 4: bow gatherings things like that. You know what are oh gosh,

1180
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 4: what are they called? Rubber tramps? You know, train hoppers.

1181
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 4: People are living outside of the system. I think it's

1182
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 4: completely possible. A lot of those people, by the way,

1183
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 4: are very very cool. I think it's completely possible that

1184
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 4: there could just be a guy living out around that

1185
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 4: area who shows up and helps people.

1186
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 3: Amongst the stones, amongst the stones, stones, stones.

1187
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,759
Speaker 2: I love it. By wait, speaking of stones, just before

1188
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 2: this is an interjection everyone, Ben, I was looking at

1189
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: Death Valley, and I know we looked at that one too,

1190
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 2: because there's a national park called the Death Valley National Park,

1191
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 2: and they've got this phenomenon that I think we've mentioned

1192
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: before but we haven't looked into it in detail. But

1193
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 2: it's these stones that are heavy and stone, and somehow,

1194
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 2: without any intervention by human hands or seenly animal hands,

1195
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 2: they move.

1196
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they sort of slide along.

1197
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: It's a dry lake bed where these stones are, and

1198
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 2: they move and you can see the trails of these

1199
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 2: stones having moved over time. No footprints, no any just

1200
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 2: explanation outside of oh, those stones move, I guess.

1201
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 3: Right.

1202
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 4: And also when you see that you're already in death Valley,

1203
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 4: so your primary concern is, Man, I hope I get

1204
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 4: water before I die.

1205
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:32,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1206
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, these But it's just really cool because there is

1207
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 2: there are like pretty good scientific concepts ideas about what

1208
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 2: could make those stones do that. It has a lot

1209
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 2: to do with ice forming when it gets super cold,

1210
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: but like small amounts of ice forming amidst all the

1211
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 2: particles already imagine of sand and dust and all that

1212
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,839
Speaker 2: other stuff that's out there. Somehow, when there's enough lubric

1213
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: lubrication right at the front facing part of that stone,

1214
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 2: and then there's a strong enough wind and then all

1215
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 2: these other factors could potentially make it happen.

1216
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 4: It removes the friction maybe, Yeah, I mean that's the idea. Also,

1217
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 4: because that area is so it is so dry, so arid. Uh,

1218
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:22,440
Speaker 4: there's the idea that like the flash floods that occasionally

1219
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 4: or the rain that occasionally encurage plays apart. I think

1220
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 4: there is a scientific explanation. I'm with you though, as

1221
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 4: to my knowledge, and this may be incorrect, there is

1222
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 4: no documented like video footage of them moving.

1223
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 3: It's just point A and then point B.

1224
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 4: Right.

1225
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 2: Not to cut you off, Ben, I'm not kidding, not

1226
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: hidting anyone out there that's listening right now. I'm sitting

1227
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 2: in my house. My son and my mother are downstairs

1228
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 2: hanging out. My dogs are both asleep behind me, well

1229
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 2: behind me. Yeah, as you were talking, Ben, I felt

1230
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 2: something touch my leg and then my shoulder and that

1231
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 2: was it. And there's nobody around me. I'm not kidding.

1232
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 4: I can confirm by the way that we saw. We

1233
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,879
Speaker 4: saw Matt look down first at his left leg.

1234
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 3: And then it is right, and then look behind him.

1235
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 4: And because he was so crazy polite, you were like, hey,

1236
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 4: not to cut you off, but.

1237
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of sitting with the feeling in this moment.

1238
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 2: But okay, Harvey.

1239
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 7: Hovey, Hovey, you heard you were talking Sack about ELTIV.

1240
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 2: There's so much more to learn about all of these parts. Again,

1241
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 2: we mentioned there's not a single park I think that

1242
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 2: you can look up that doesn't have something haunted. Look

1243
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 2: up the twice hanged man. Also in Death Valley, story

1244
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,480
Speaker 2: of a guy who allegedly killed a banker, got convicted,

1245
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 2: got hanged, then he was cut down, then he was

1246
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 2: put back up hanged again for like a press opportunity.

1247
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 2: This is in nineteen oh eight in a place called Skidoo.

1248
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 2: Really it's called skid Do ski Doo. You can see

1249
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 2: remnants of the town that are still out there in

1250
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 2: Death Valley. There's so much to that story. But allegedly they,

1251
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 2: I guess the medical practitioners at the time cut his

1252
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 2: head off to see if he had syphilis or some

1253
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: other brain disease that would cause the his erratic behavior

1254
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 2: because he was like a I guess, he was a

1255
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: pretty well known businessman at the time. He was well

1256
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 2: known in the town, and he killed a beloved, allegedly

1257
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 2: beloved banker, and so they're like, what the heck caused

1258
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: him to do this? So they supposedly cut his head off,

1259
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 2: and now even now you can see basically this headless

1260
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 2: ghost that's walking around trying to find his head.

1261
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 4: Wild Again, like we said, it's scientifically proven that the

1262
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 4: only real ghost are people have been decapitated. They you know,

1263
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 4: don't get mad at us, folks, that's just science. And

1264
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 4: also don't fact check us on that one. But yeah,

1265
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 4: we might even return with more ghosts from national parks, because,

1266
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 4: like you said, Matt, there are so very many out there.

1267
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 4: If we did one for every national park, we'd be

1268
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 4: looking at over four hundred.

1269
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well over dude, the Indiana Dunes and look up

1270
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 2: Diana of the Dunes. That's a thing, Diana of the Dunes.

1271
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating, great, actually wholesome ghost story. If you

1272
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 2: want to check that one out.

1273
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 4: Look up also all the myths surrounding mounds burial mounds

1274
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 4: which were around, you know, well before the idea of

1275
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 4: the United States, and indeed they were actively suppressed by

1276
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 4: the United States, in some cases destroyed. And also if

1277
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 4: you happen to live near any take the time to

1278
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 4: go visit them. It's a fascinating peak into the hidden

1279
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 4: history of this continent.

1280
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 3: Oh. Last one, ben, Yeah, last one.

1281
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 2: Last, if you have ever gone through it's the Smoky Mountains.

1282
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 2: What's that one called Great Smoky Mountain National Park, I

1283
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 2: think is the name of it. There's an area, Oh,

1284
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 2: let me see if I can find it. It's called

1285
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 2: the Thomas Divide Ridge where you can find Oh, you

1286
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 2: could find the Thomas Divide overlook that is on one

1287
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 2: of the one of the main roads there. If you

1288
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: look out at night at this Thomas Divide Ridge, allegedly

1289
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 2: you can see lights that flicker and shine in this

1290
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: area that is not populated. They call it ghost lights,

1291
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 2: smoky mountain ghost lights. I have seen video of these things,

1292
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 2: but I've never heard anyone give a better explanation. I

1293
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 2: guess for what possibly could be.

1294
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 3: Because it can't be swamp gas.

1295
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 2: I don't fit miss mountain gas.

1296
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 3: Maybe Mountain I've had Moore may too.

1297
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,600
Speaker 4: Oh boy, Yes, we're talking about this off air, and

1298
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 4: we could. I think that one could be an entire

1299
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 4: episode because we can take what we learned from previous

1300
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 4: ghost light conversations and will of the Wisp things and

1301
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 4: kind of case test, right.

1302
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to go. I want to go

1303
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: spend a couple of nights out there in the wilderness

1304
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 2: on the ridge that you can view from the from

1305
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,679
Speaker 2: the street there. Yeah, because I I you can get

1306
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 2: footage of it from a certain angle. I want to

1307
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 2: know if the angle of observation has anything to do

1308
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 2: with the way the light looks. Right.

1309
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you were saying, you were saying, we need

1310
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 4: to find the specific spot, right, And it could be

1311
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 4: a multi person operation too, where we find the specific

1312
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 4: spot and we have one person stay there and maintain that,

1313
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 4: and then we have somebody else try to move toward

1314
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 4: it and see what they can.

1315
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1316
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 4: We could triangulate, we could do some interesting things, especially

1317
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 4: in the age of GPS.

1318
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 2: Dude, it's not that far from us. It's Tennessee, right,

1319
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 2: that's like me, it's ours. But we can make it.

1320
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can make it happen.

1321
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 4: We can also, you know what, let's tell the bosses

1322
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 4: this is valuable research. And then we don't have time

1323
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 4: to explain why we can't be in the meetings.

1324
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, we are exploring the wilderness.

1325
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 3: Let's just call into the meeting from there.

1326
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 6: Where are you would go?

1327
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 2: Great? They make satellite phones, still right.

1328
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 3: They do? They do?

1329
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 4: Okay, so we'll get with accounting first to get the

1330
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 4: sat phone, and then we will okay, Yeah, wheels are spinning.

1331
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 3: I think we got this.

1332
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1333
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 2: X thirty seven B still up there is gonna be

1334
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:46,879
Speaker 2: there for a while. We'll be able to make contact.

1335
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, who knows what. We'll ring out there into

1336
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 4: the ink and we might get X thirty seven B.

1337
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 4: We might get the Chinese one. You know, we know

1338
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 4: how to say hello and all those languages. It'll work out.

1339
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 2: So why I'm sticking with you, buddy.

1340
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 4: Well, see that's why I'm sticking with you. That's why

1341
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 4: we hope you are sticking with us. We'd like to

1342
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 4: answer this question, folks, why would national parks in particular

1343
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 4: garner so many tales of ghostly activity. Well, without saying

1344
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:19,599
Speaker 4: whether or not ghost or real, we can tell you

1345
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 4: expectation plays a big role. You were talking about this

1346
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 4: a little bit too, Matt. When people enter a place

1347
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 4: being told, perhaps numerous times that paranormal activity might be present,

1348
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,879
Speaker 4: on some level of consciousness, even if you're a skeptic

1349
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,719
Speaker 4: saying I'll disprove this, you are going to be more

1350
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 4: primed to look for unusual things. Some stuff that you

1351
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 4: might ignore otherwise become you know, takes on other implications,

1352
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 4: right like if you're if you're in a grocery store

1353
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 4: or in a crowded part of your city or town,

1354
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 4: there are a lot of things you ignore just to

1355
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,600
Speaker 4: get by. You know other people are around, you know

1356
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 4: there's going to be other stimuli hitting hitting your wonderful

1357
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 4: sensory network. But if you're in a new environment where

1358
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 4: people have already told you look out for that headless person,

1359
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 4: then you have a higher likelihood of feeling like a

1360
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,559
Speaker 4: visual movement you can't track in the distance, or something

1361
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 4: comes from somewhere beyond the mundane realm, and I think

1362
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 4: that's something we have to remember. Plus it makes for

1363
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 4: a heck of a story. And we did reach out

1364
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 4: to the National Park System. We went to the top

1365
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 4: of this one, folks, and what we found is that

1366
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:40,600
Speaker 4: there's so many allegations of ghost in individual parks that

1367
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 4: the best way to learn more is to contact the

1368
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 4: parks directly and they'll answer you because they are awesome,

1369
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 4: tireless people. The rangers and other officials who maintain these

1370
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 4: resources are, in our opinion, heroes. And I don't know, man,

1371
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 4: something you said earlier, which I think is such a

1372
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 4: good point. We have to apply the willingness of the

1373
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 4: park system to say play along, or maybe, let's say,

1374
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 4: encourage interest in naturally human history. They've got a sense

1375
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 4: of humor as well as respect, and they're kind of

1376
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 4: leveraging the interest in the paranormal as a way of

1377
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 4: encouraging interest in the stunning, very real beauty of the

1378
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 4: world around us.

1379
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 6: Yes.

1380
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,440
Speaker 3: Yes, so if it's a conspiracy, it's like a good conspiracy.

1381
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 2: It's a wholesome conspiracy. Again, it makes you want to do,

1382
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 2: like what I probably wouldn't want to travel to Chickamungo,

1383
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 2: which is another place in Tennessee. It's like it's an

1384
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 2: historic National Landmark, I guess kind of, and it's got

1385
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 2: a forest connected with a natural area. It's another Civil

1386
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 2: War related thing, and I would ever go there. But

1387
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 2: there's a thing there called Old Green Eyes that's allegedly

1388
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: this thing at night that you can see. Want to

1389
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,920
Speaker 2: go see Old green Eyes way more than I want

1390
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 2: to see the Civil War history. The Civil War history

1391
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 2: then becomes a little cherry on top that I get

1392
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 2: for my green Eyes exploration.

1393
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 4: Mmm, like how they give you candy at the dentist.

1394
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 4: Also think about that one. Oh man, Yeah, I think

1395
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 4: that's a great point.

1396
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 2: That was. The timing was just so good.

1397
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 4: So folks, we know we went long on this. Thank

1398
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 4: you and apologies and condolences to our super producer Paul

1399
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 4: Mission Control decand for sticking with us.

1400
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 6: As we.

1401
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 3: And I'm in a weird place too, man.

1402
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 4: Probably we probably want to call it a day. We'll

1403
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 4: have no Old joining us for future adventure very soon.

1404
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 4: And for everyone who's hearing this, we would love to

1405
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 4: hear stories from the ghost in your neck of the

1406
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 4: Global Woods, your.

1407
01:20:57,160 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 3: Local national park.

1408
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 4: Even if you don't think there's a ghost story there,

1409
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 4: go check it out and help us learn more about

1410
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 4: it as well. As you're a fellow conspiracy realist. You

1411
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 4: can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook,

1412
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 4: and can find us on x You check out our

1413
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 4: weird avant garde social media videos that we're doing, and

1414
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 4: if you don't want to do any of that, if

1415
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 4: you don't sip those social meds, then why not just

1416
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 4: give us a telephone call.

1417
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:29,639
Speaker 2: Yes, our number is one eight three three st DWYTK.

1418
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 2: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname, and

1419
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 2: you've got three minutes say whatever you'd like. Just please

1420
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and

1421
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 2: message on the air. If you've got more to say

1422
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 2: or links or attachments, why not instead shoot us an email.

1423
01:21:41,840 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1424
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:05,839
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1425
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1426
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.