1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:24,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. They're calling 2 00:00:24,556 --> 00:00:26,356 Speaker 1: me the N word because they want me to feel bad, 3 00:00:26,396 --> 00:00:28,716 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to give them that opportunity, and 4 00:00:28,756 --> 00:00:31,996 Speaker 1: so I try to think about the why, which then 5 00:00:32,036 --> 00:00:35,876 Speaker 1: allows me to separate the offensive comment from feeling offended. 6 00:00:36,316 --> 00:00:38,596 Speaker 1: In the summer of twenty twenty, while in the throes 7 00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:42,276 Speaker 1: of the global pandemic, many Americans found themselves wrestling with 8 00:00:42,316 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 1: another virus of sorts, racism. I would say to black 9 00:00:46,636 --> 00:00:51,396 Speaker 1: people that I don't expect anyone else to free us. 10 00:00:51,836 --> 00:00:54,316 Speaker 1: That we freed ourselves during the Civil War, and we're 11 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:57,476 Speaker 1: gonna have to free ourselves, you know, from racism too. 12 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:01,196 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I do not think it 13 00:01:01,356 --> 00:01:04,236 Speaker 1: is all on us. With the killing of George Floyd, 14 00:01:04,596 --> 00:01:07,156 Speaker 1: the killing of a mod Arbory, and the killing of 15 00:01:07,196 --> 00:01:13,116 Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor, the phrase Black Lives Matter suddenly became mainstream. 16 00:01:13,156 --> 00:01:17,756 Speaker 1: The stark nature of inequity and injustice became apparent for 17 00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:20,396 Speaker 1: many who had tried to ignore it for so long, 18 00:01:21,636 --> 00:01:25,076 Speaker 1: even for people accustomed to doing the work of anti racism, 19 00:01:25,116 --> 00:01:28,796 Speaker 1: and especially for black folks doing that work. The mainstreaming 20 00:01:28,796 --> 00:01:33,556 Speaker 1: of the movement has been both energizing and emotionally exhausting. 21 00:01:34,396 --> 00:01:38,116 Speaker 1: We may easy to take breaks, and that's okay. People 22 00:01:38,116 --> 00:01:41,516 Speaker 1: should listen to their bodies and to their feelings, and 23 00:01:41,796 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 1: you know, knowing that three months from then, or a 24 00:01:44,076 --> 00:01:46,396 Speaker 1: year from then, or in a different type of way, 25 00:01:46,516 --> 00:01:49,996 Speaker 1: that that baton, you know, is going to be picked up. 26 00:01:50,636 --> 00:01:54,876 Speaker 1: Doctor IBRAMX Kendy as a professor, scholar, writer, and most 27 00:01:54,916 --> 00:01:58,956 Speaker 1: recently the host of the Pushkin podcast Be Anti Racist. 28 00:01:59,596 --> 00:02:02,276 Speaker 1: When it comes to teaching anti racism to all, he 29 00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:05,916 Speaker 1: has had to become a kind of endurance athlete, and 30 00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:08,796 Speaker 1: we do all need to be a part of the solution. 31 00:02:09,316 --> 00:02:16,636 Speaker 1: The demands of fighting racism are solvable. How are you 32 00:02:16,636 --> 00:02:19,596 Speaker 1: settling into your new role as a Pushkin podcast host? 33 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:22,556 Speaker 1: Is this your first podcast, by the way, that you've hosted, Yes, okay, 34 00:02:22,596 --> 00:02:24,236 Speaker 1: So how are you settling into your new role? I 35 00:02:24,276 --> 00:02:26,996 Speaker 1: feel like I'm settling, and I mean podcasting obviously it's 36 00:02:27,876 --> 00:02:31,276 Speaker 1: something quite different than anything you know, I've ever done, 37 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:35,516 Speaker 1: and so it's it's a learning curve and hopefully everyone's 38 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:37,716 Speaker 1: bearing with me. Hey, I think you're doing a great 39 00:02:37,796 --> 00:02:40,756 Speaker 1: job be Anti Racist as the name of your show. 40 00:02:40,956 --> 00:02:43,116 Speaker 1: I know that you didn't always imagine yourself doing the 41 00:02:43,116 --> 00:02:45,156 Speaker 1: work that you do today. Tell us a little bit 42 00:02:45,196 --> 00:02:47,876 Speaker 1: about what you would have wanted to do if not 43 00:02:47,916 --> 00:02:51,036 Speaker 1: working in anti racistool. I grew up a huge New 44 00:02:51,116 --> 00:02:53,996 Speaker 1: York Knicks fan and played basketball, and so I mean, 45 00:02:54,036 --> 00:02:57,036 Speaker 1: I would have loved to be the next John Starks 46 00:02:57,196 --> 00:03:03,916 Speaker 1: and you know, or Alan Houston. I of course that 47 00:03:03,996 --> 00:03:10,716 Speaker 1: didn't work out, and I actually even even initially was 48 00:03:10,756 --> 00:03:16,836 Speaker 1: thinking about being an actually intern to be a sports reporter. Nice, 49 00:03:16,916 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: but I think the more I wrote about sports, the 50 00:03:19,036 --> 00:03:21,956 Speaker 1: more I became interested in writing about race and race 51 00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:25,476 Speaker 1: in sport, and ultimately I dropped the sport. But I 52 00:03:25,716 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 1: do sometimes, of course, write about sports understandable. I deal 53 00:03:29,836 --> 00:03:31,916 Speaker 1: with race every day. Being black, I deal with it 54 00:03:31,956 --> 00:03:35,116 Speaker 1: all the time, but I'm not necessarily an expert. After 55 00:03:35,276 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: the killing of George Floyd, there was a lot of 56 00:03:37,636 --> 00:03:40,036 Speaker 1: opportunities for me to talk to white folks about race, 57 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:42,556 Speaker 1: whether they were showing up in my inbox actually questions 58 00:03:42,636 --> 00:03:46,756 Speaker 1: or apologizing for white privilege and all those I started 59 00:03:46,756 --> 00:03:49,596 Speaker 1: an anti racist book club, going through the books that 60 00:03:49,636 --> 00:03:51,396 Speaker 1: we're reading. Of course, one of them was Yours How 61 00:03:51,436 --> 00:03:54,316 Speaker 1: to Be Anti Racist? Going through those conversations for me, 62 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:56,236 Speaker 1: I did it for a while. We did it for 63 00:03:56,276 --> 00:03:58,396 Speaker 1: about six months or so, and then I got tired 64 00:03:58,436 --> 00:04:00,156 Speaker 1: of doing it. I couldn't do it anymore. I'm like, 65 00:04:00,196 --> 00:04:02,756 Speaker 1: this is this is too much. I'm like, I don't 66 00:04:02,796 --> 00:04:04,236 Speaker 1: want to talk about racing people. I don't want to 67 00:04:04,236 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: have to explain this to white folks, especially. I just 68 00:04:06,916 --> 00:04:09,596 Speaker 1: didn't want to do it anymore. So I'm wondering, for 69 00:04:09,636 --> 00:04:12,116 Speaker 1: somebody like you who does this twenty four to seven 70 00:04:12,316 --> 00:04:15,036 Speaker 1: all the time, did you find that, maybe in the 71 00:04:15,116 --> 00:04:18,636 Speaker 1: last year that this particular work has been more demanding 72 00:04:18,636 --> 00:04:22,556 Speaker 1: and more taxing than usual, especially with everyone asking so 73 00:04:22,596 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: many questions. So I think it has certainly been more 74 00:04:26,196 --> 00:04:29,236 Speaker 1: demanding on my time. So it's just been harder to 75 00:04:30,596 --> 00:04:35,236 Speaker 1: navigate it, you than before. The combination of that with 76 00:04:36,676 --> 00:04:41,076 Speaker 1: trying to be responsive to the growing number of people 77 00:04:41,116 --> 00:04:44,876 Speaker 1: who are becoming aware that there's a racism problem and 78 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:48,356 Speaker 1: who are trying to sort of understand it, and then 79 00:04:48,436 --> 00:04:52,676 Speaker 1: even recently trying to be responsive to the all out 80 00:04:52,996 --> 00:04:56,356 Speaker 1: effort to close those eyes that had been sort of 81 00:04:56,396 --> 00:05:00,876 Speaker 1: opened a year ago. At the same time, I also 82 00:05:01,196 --> 00:05:04,076 Speaker 1: recognize that, you know, I'm a scholar of race and racism, 83 00:05:04,156 --> 00:05:07,036 Speaker 1: and so this is in a way sort of you 84 00:05:07,076 --> 00:05:11,556 Speaker 1: know what I do, and I try to find soulless, 85 00:05:12,636 --> 00:05:15,916 Speaker 1: and I try to ensure that I'm physically and emotionally 86 00:05:15,956 --> 00:05:19,676 Speaker 1: capable to do this work, just like there are other 87 00:05:20,156 --> 00:05:23,556 Speaker 1: professionals who who have to sort of think about that too. 88 00:05:23,596 --> 00:05:26,596 Speaker 1: Whether you know a cancer doctor who day in and 89 00:05:26,676 --> 00:05:29,916 Speaker 1: day out they deal with cancer, and I, you know, 90 00:05:29,916 --> 00:05:32,876 Speaker 1: as somebody who has battled cancer, you know, I know 91 00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:37,236 Speaker 1: how hard it is for our caretakers to really fight 92 00:05:37,396 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 1: this just brutal disease, and just like it's hard for 93 00:05:41,156 --> 00:05:44,236 Speaker 1: people who are fighting the disease of racism. In the 94 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:47,996 Speaker 1: months after George Floyd was killed, I noticed that there 95 00:05:48,076 --> 00:05:51,316 Speaker 1: was a trend amongst especially amongst white folks in corporations 96 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:54,556 Speaker 1: to not only support Black Lives Matter, but we saw 97 00:05:54,676 --> 00:05:59,436 Speaker 1: some forms of racial reckonings and racial reconciliations across some organizations, 98 00:05:59,836 --> 00:06:02,036 Speaker 1: and the fervor has kind of died down a little bit. 99 00:06:02,476 --> 00:06:05,196 Speaker 1: I imagine you had a feeling as you saw it rise, 100 00:06:06,236 --> 00:06:08,476 Speaker 1: what's it like to also see it fall, what it's 101 00:06:08,556 --> 00:06:13,876 Speaker 1: like as it's been just a bitter and brutal, really backlash. 102 00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:16,716 Speaker 1: And so I don't think we should just imagine it 103 00:06:16,796 --> 00:06:20,476 Speaker 1: sort of happened by happenstance, and so within for instance, 104 00:06:20,636 --> 00:06:27,436 Speaker 1: days of George Floyd's murder and people demonstrating against that murder, 105 00:06:27,476 --> 00:06:30,596 Speaker 1: you had the President of the United States, you know, 106 00:06:30,636 --> 00:06:33,916 Speaker 1: calling them thugs, or you had him saying that, you know, 107 00:06:33,916 --> 00:06:38,516 Speaker 1: when the looting starts, to shooting starts, and by the summer, 108 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:43,076 Speaker 1: efforts to hold people accountable suddenly became cancel culture, which 109 00:06:43,156 --> 00:06:46,756 Speaker 1: was horrible. And then those there were simultaneous and growing 110 00:06:46,796 --> 00:06:51,756 Speaker 1: attacks on the sixteen nineteen Project, attacks on the teaching 111 00:06:51,796 --> 00:06:56,356 Speaker 1: of the history of slavery, or even about racism in schools, 112 00:06:56,516 --> 00:07:00,076 Speaker 1: and of course that's the attacks that we're facing today, 113 00:07:00,116 --> 00:07:04,156 Speaker 1: and it's it's just been it's been brutal to see 114 00:07:04,196 --> 00:07:09,556 Speaker 1: because in most of these cases, those who were attacking, 115 00:07:10,916 --> 00:07:15,196 Speaker 1: whether it was Black Lives Matter demonstrators or sixteen nineteen 116 00:07:15,276 --> 00:07:19,876 Speaker 1: Project or anti racism or even now critical race theory, 117 00:07:20,716 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: we're defining in a way or describing in a way 118 00:07:25,396 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 1: that was not truthful, and then attacking their own definitions 119 00:07:29,276 --> 00:07:32,596 Speaker 1: and defining in a way that would anger people and 120 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:36,756 Speaker 1: cause resentment, when that's actually in many cases not what 121 00:07:36,796 --> 00:07:39,636 Speaker 1: people were doing or saying. Do you feel like this 122 00:07:39,716 --> 00:07:42,076 Speaker 1: makes your job harder or does this feel like kind 123 00:07:42,116 --> 00:07:44,916 Speaker 1: of just another day at the office. I'd say it's both. 124 00:07:45,156 --> 00:07:48,436 Speaker 1: On the one hand, it certainly makes my job harder 125 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:51,916 Speaker 1: when other people have framed me in a particular way, 126 00:07:51,956 --> 00:07:56,116 Speaker 1: that's false. They they're coming with a particular perspective, they're 127 00:07:56,156 --> 00:08:00,516 Speaker 1: coming to hear the research or the evidence or the logic. 128 00:08:01,236 --> 00:08:05,996 Speaker 1: When approaching people who who have not read my work, 129 00:08:06,636 --> 00:08:09,956 Speaker 1: that just makes it harder to have those conversations. But 130 00:08:10,076 --> 00:08:11,796 Speaker 1: on the other way, and it's another day at the office, 131 00:08:11,836 --> 00:08:16,316 Speaker 1: because this is what happened prior to George Floyd's murder. 132 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:19,036 Speaker 1: This is what's happening over the course you know of history. 133 00:08:19,076 --> 00:08:23,316 Speaker 1: I mean, Marks the King was consistently during his lifetime 134 00:08:23,396 --> 00:08:28,596 Speaker 1: called an extremist, call an outside agitator, abolitionist. It was 135 00:08:28,636 --> 00:08:31,636 Speaker 1: imagined where being divisive, I mean, this is what happens 136 00:08:31,676 --> 00:08:34,556 Speaker 1: to people who are trying to create justice and equity. 137 00:08:39,996 --> 00:08:42,276 Speaker 1: In terms of your headspace, if you could talk a 138 00:08:42,316 --> 00:08:45,236 Speaker 1: little bit more about how you manage the actual fight 139 00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:48,116 Speaker 1: in your head when it comes through having to talk 140 00:08:48,156 --> 00:08:51,356 Speaker 1: about what racism is explaining to folks and how that 141 00:08:51,516 --> 00:08:54,676 Speaker 1: is taxing on you as a fellow black person. How 142 00:08:54,716 --> 00:08:57,236 Speaker 1: that's taxing on you to actually have to give those 143 00:08:57,276 --> 00:09:03,196 Speaker 1: answers and do that work. My work isn't necessarily directed 144 00:09:03,396 --> 00:09:07,756 Speaker 1: specifically towards towards white people. I've encouraged even people of 145 00:09:07,796 --> 00:09:11,436 Speaker 1: color to be anti racist, And it is a different 146 00:09:11,476 --> 00:09:15,796 Speaker 1: type of conversation with different communities, which I think if 147 00:09:15,836 --> 00:09:18,796 Speaker 1: I was just having the same conversation with the same community, 148 00:09:18,836 --> 00:09:22,516 Speaker 1: I think it would be much more taxing. I would 149 00:09:22,556 --> 00:09:27,996 Speaker 1: also add that I tried to separate statements about me 150 00:09:28,356 --> 00:09:32,916 Speaker 1: or about black people that are offensive from feeling offended. 151 00:09:33,836 --> 00:09:36,876 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's it's rare that just because somebody 152 00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:39,796 Speaker 1: sort of calls me an idiot or calls me the 153 00:09:39,916 --> 00:09:42,916 Speaker 1: end word, or threatens me in a particular way, or 154 00:09:43,316 --> 00:09:46,796 Speaker 1: describes black people in a particular way, that I personally 155 00:09:46,836 --> 00:09:50,276 Speaker 1: would feel bad because of that, And so I tried 156 00:09:50,316 --> 00:09:53,396 Speaker 1: to make that separation. I think that's helped me. How 157 00:09:53,476 --> 00:09:55,476 Speaker 1: do you make that separation because you just you might 158 00:09:55,516 --> 00:09:57,196 Speaker 1: have said a key there that I don't I don't 159 00:09:57,236 --> 00:09:58,756 Speaker 1: even know I could do that, because if somebody calls 160 00:09:58,756 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 1: me an idiot or system about black people are automatically offended. 161 00:10:02,116 --> 00:10:06,556 Speaker 1: What it is is I try to see what they're 162 00:10:06,596 --> 00:10:12,076 Speaker 1: saying as a reflection first and foremost of what is 163 00:10:12,076 --> 00:10:15,196 Speaker 1: wrong with them, And then I try to think about 164 00:10:15,756 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 1: why are they doing that? So, why is it that 165 00:10:18,596 --> 00:10:23,276 Speaker 1: someone is tweeting at me a personal attack as opposed 166 00:10:23,276 --> 00:10:27,476 Speaker 1: to engaging with my specific ideas? And I know that 167 00:10:27,636 --> 00:10:29,756 Speaker 1: you know it's it's a way to discredit me because 168 00:10:29,756 --> 00:10:32,836 Speaker 1: they don't want to engage with my ideas, right, Or 169 00:10:32,836 --> 00:10:34,876 Speaker 1: why is someone you know calling me the N word? 170 00:10:34,876 --> 00:10:36,556 Speaker 1: They're calling me the N word because they want me 171 00:10:36,556 --> 00:10:38,116 Speaker 1: to feel bad, and I'm not going to give them 172 00:10:38,156 --> 00:10:42,676 Speaker 1: that opportunity. And so I try to think about the why, 173 00:10:42,716 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 1: which then allows me to separate the offensive comment from 174 00:10:46,156 --> 00:11:04,436 Speaker 1: feeling offended. Can you tell me a day that you 175 00:11:04,556 --> 00:11:07,116 Speaker 1: felt like the work that you're doing is paying off. 176 00:11:07,516 --> 00:11:09,076 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of teachers that have store 177 00:11:09,276 --> 00:11:11,836 Speaker 1: is like this, where they just feel like they've been 178 00:11:11,836 --> 00:11:13,556 Speaker 1: working with their students and all of a sudden, you 179 00:11:13,556 --> 00:11:15,516 Speaker 1: see them get it. You know, you see something happen. 180 00:11:15,596 --> 00:11:17,756 Speaker 1: You're just like, this is what teaching's all about. Do 181 00:11:17,796 --> 00:11:19,756 Speaker 1: you have a moment like that, especially in a work 182 00:11:19,796 --> 00:11:23,036 Speaker 1: where sometimes it could be a little amorphous or nebulous 183 00:11:23,036 --> 00:11:26,036 Speaker 1: to actually see like the clear fruits of your labor. 184 00:11:27,076 --> 00:11:29,996 Speaker 1: I remember last June, and I don't remember the day 185 00:11:31,076 --> 00:11:34,476 Speaker 1: when I came across a poll that showed that I 186 00:11:34,516 --> 00:11:39,276 Speaker 1: think it was seventy six percent of Americans had told 187 00:11:39,316 --> 00:11:44,396 Speaker 1: the posters that systemic racism exists and it's a huge problem. 188 00:11:44,476 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 1: It was the highest recorded percentage of Americans, you know, 189 00:11:48,596 --> 00:11:55,596 Speaker 1: ever recorded. I just remember almost being simultaneously in disbelief 190 00:11:56,076 --> 00:12:02,156 Speaker 1: and hopeful that this clear governing majority could could take 191 00:12:02,196 --> 00:12:05,356 Speaker 1: this nation to a place of justice, that we can 192 00:12:05,436 --> 00:12:15,916 Speaker 1: sort of transform that awareness into action. What do you 193 00:12:15,996 --> 00:12:19,156 Speaker 1: do when you're done for the day, when you don't 194 00:12:19,156 --> 00:12:21,756 Speaker 1: have any more interviews, when you don't have any any 195 00:12:21,836 --> 00:12:23,436 Speaker 1: anything to write in the moment, what do you do 196 00:12:23,516 --> 00:12:26,716 Speaker 1: to recharge and to renew yourself in order to get 197 00:12:26,756 --> 00:12:29,716 Speaker 1: ready and energize for the fight for tomorrow. So I 198 00:12:29,796 --> 00:12:33,796 Speaker 1: tried to wind down with a sangria, but I like 199 00:12:33,876 --> 00:12:37,236 Speaker 1: the night. I also, before I go to bed, I 200 00:12:37,276 --> 00:12:40,676 Speaker 1: tried to to read quite a bit, because I think 201 00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:43,796 Speaker 1: reading and focusing on a book, particularly a good book, 202 00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:48,396 Speaker 1: just settles me, you know, settles my mind. So I think, 203 00:12:48,396 --> 00:12:51,316 Speaker 1: between a sangria and hanging with my family, of course 204 00:12:52,036 --> 00:12:54,196 Speaker 1: you know I'm reading. I think that's what sort of 205 00:12:54,276 --> 00:12:58,236 Speaker 1: settles me each night. Has there ever been a moment 206 00:12:58,316 --> 00:13:02,396 Speaker 1: for you where you just you, You've thought, you know what, 207 00:13:02,756 --> 00:13:05,596 Speaker 1: I've had enough of this. I'm again managing the book club. 208 00:13:05,916 --> 00:13:07,356 Speaker 1: That was the moment for me that I was like, 209 00:13:07,516 --> 00:13:09,876 Speaker 1: you know it. On the individual level, I'll do this 210 00:13:09,996 --> 00:13:11,476 Speaker 1: like I'll talk to folks if they want to talk. 211 00:13:11,516 --> 00:13:13,156 Speaker 1: But I don't know if I can. I don't know 212 00:13:13,156 --> 00:13:16,476 Speaker 1: if I'm just not equipped for this. I'll do like normal, average, 213 00:13:16,476 --> 00:13:18,476 Speaker 1: everyday black folks who want to get involved in the 214 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:21,156 Speaker 1: work of anti racism, how do we solve for those 215 00:13:21,196 --> 00:13:26,236 Speaker 1: feelings of exhaustion. We may need to take breaks, and 216 00:13:26,276 --> 00:13:29,916 Speaker 1: that's okay. People should listen to their to their bodies 217 00:13:29,956 --> 00:13:32,556 Speaker 1: and to their feelings. And you know, knowing that three 218 00:13:32,596 --> 00:13:34,636 Speaker 1: months from then or a year from then, or in 219 00:13:34,676 --> 00:13:38,316 Speaker 1: a different type of way, that that baton, you know 220 00:13:38,356 --> 00:13:41,236 Speaker 1: it's going to be picked up. It can be burdensome 221 00:13:41,276 --> 00:13:44,396 Speaker 1: when we feel it is it is on us. I 222 00:13:44,436 --> 00:13:49,196 Speaker 1: would say to black people that I don't expect anyone 223 00:13:49,236 --> 00:13:52,436 Speaker 1: else to free us, that we freed ourselves during the 224 00:13:52,476 --> 00:13:55,196 Speaker 1: Civil War and we're gonna have to free ourselves, you know, 225 00:13:55,276 --> 00:13:58,916 Speaker 1: from racism too. But on the other hand, I do 226 00:13:59,036 --> 00:14:02,436 Speaker 1: not think it is all on us, you know. I 227 00:14:02,476 --> 00:14:06,756 Speaker 1: think it's important for Asian Americans who are facing anti 228 00:14:06,796 --> 00:14:10,556 Speaker 1: Asian racism to ally with with black folks facing anti 229 00:14:10,596 --> 00:14:14,276 Speaker 1: black racism. It's it's important for white Americans who who 230 00:14:14,316 --> 00:14:17,476 Speaker 1: are facing the collateral damage from racism to be like, 231 00:14:17,516 --> 00:14:21,796 Speaker 1: you know what, this country is, democracy itself, even for 232 00:14:21,836 --> 00:14:25,236 Speaker 1: people like me, is being threatened. So we need to 233 00:14:25,276 --> 00:14:29,756 Speaker 1: sort of ally and come together to fight for you know, 234 00:14:29,756 --> 00:14:33,116 Speaker 1: our democracy. I expect and hope that other groups will 235 00:14:33,196 --> 00:14:35,996 Speaker 1: do this in other groups are doing this. I know 236 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 1: there's a lot of listeners that are listening right now 237 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:40,076 Speaker 1: that probably want to be involved in the work. You know, 238 00:14:40,756 --> 00:14:42,636 Speaker 1: we could point them in the direction of the podcast 239 00:14:42,676 --> 00:14:44,636 Speaker 1: be anti Racists. We could point them in the direction 240 00:14:45,036 --> 00:14:47,956 Speaker 1: of the books of course, how to be an anti Racist. 241 00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:50,396 Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of other especially I like to 242 00:14:50,396 --> 00:14:53,156 Speaker 1: call them race one on one books that listeners can read, 243 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:55,276 Speaker 1: and we can, you know, we can link to those. 244 00:14:55,316 --> 00:14:58,116 Speaker 1: But what do you think, like, what's an everyday action 245 00:14:58,156 --> 00:15:01,036 Speaker 1: that a listener can take in order to get involved 246 00:15:01,236 --> 00:15:03,636 Speaker 1: with either work of anti racism work? Or even trying 247 00:15:03,636 --> 00:15:06,316 Speaker 1: to recharge themselves to be ready for more anti racism work. 248 00:15:06,716 --> 00:15:11,396 Speaker 1: I think we should all think about our own backyard, 249 00:15:11,716 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 1: our own organizations, and identify the people or even the 250 00:15:17,636 --> 00:15:22,316 Speaker 1: organizations that are fighting for racial justice or fighting for 251 00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:26,316 Speaker 1: racial equity, and then to think about, you know, in 252 00:15:26,436 --> 00:15:30,396 Speaker 1: what's small or large way, can I support these people, 253 00:15:30,516 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 1: Can I support this organization to give ourselves, you know, 254 00:15:35,116 --> 00:15:38,036 Speaker 1: in that way? And I think if we're all doing that, 255 00:15:38,636 --> 00:15:41,236 Speaker 1: then we're going to have people in every backyard, in 256 00:15:41,276 --> 00:15:44,916 Speaker 1: every institution who are trying to create, you know, an 257 00:15:44,916 --> 00:15:49,876 Speaker 1: equitable injust world. Thank you so much for being with us, 258 00:15:49,876 --> 00:15:52,156 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendy, Oh, you're welcome. Thank if you have me. 259 00:15:58,076 --> 00:16:01,436 Speaker 1: Doctor Abramxic Kendy is the Andrew W. Mellon Professor and 260 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:05,156 Speaker 1: the Humanities at Boston University and the founding director of 261 00:16:05,196 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 1: the buth Center for Anti Racist Research. He's a contributor 262 00:16:09,276 --> 00:16:13,436 Speaker 1: writer at the Atlantic and a CBS News correspondent. He 263 00:16:13,596 --> 00:16:16,516 Speaker 1: is the author of many books, including Stamp from the Beginning, 264 00:16:16,636 --> 00:16:20,156 Speaker 1: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America, which won 265 00:16:20,196 --> 00:16:23,516 Speaker 1: the National Book Award for non Fiction, and he's written 266 00:16:23,556 --> 00:16:27,076 Speaker 1: four Number one New York Times bestsellers, including How to 267 00:16:27,116 --> 00:16:29,996 Speaker 1: Be an Anti Racist. Be sure to check out our 268 00:16:29,996 --> 00:16:32,396 Speaker 1: show notes to find a great list of resources where 269 00:16:32,396 --> 00:16:35,796 Speaker 1: you could continue to learn about anti racism and help 270 00:16:35,876 --> 00:16:39,396 Speaker 1: others to become anti racist too. And his podcast be 271 00:16:39,476 --> 00:16:43,356 Speaker 1: Anti Racist has a terrific collection of listener guides which 272 00:16:43,396 --> 00:16:46,676 Speaker 1: include discussion questions for listeners who are ready to get 273 00:16:46,716 --> 00:16:49,996 Speaker 1: into the work with friends and family. This stuff is 274 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:53,636 Speaker 1: not easy, y'all. Even with doctor Kendy's great advice, sometimes 275 00:16:53,796 --> 00:16:55,916 Speaker 1: we might need a little more direct support to get 276 00:16:55,956 --> 00:16:59,516 Speaker 1: through the hard spots and curveballs the world throws. Next week, 277 00:16:59,516 --> 00:17:02,316 Speaker 1: I'm talking with doctor Joy Harden Bradford about therapy stegma 278 00:17:02,356 --> 00:17:04,596 Speaker 1: for black folks and how to transcend it in order 279 00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:06,956 Speaker 1: to get the help you need. I hope you'll join us. 280 00:17:08,756 --> 00:17:12,836 Speaker 1: Solvell Senior Producer is Jocelyn Frank, Research by David John, 281 00:17:13,316 --> 00:17:17,276 Speaker 1: Booking by Lisa Dunn. Our Managing Producer is Sasha Matthias, 282 00:17:17,396 --> 00:17:21,276 Speaker 1: and our executive producer is mio Leabelle. Special thanks to 283 00:17:22,156 --> 00:17:28,396 Speaker 1: Tammy Wynn, Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Maggie Taylor, 284 00:17:28,756 --> 00:17:33,036 Speaker 1: and Nicole Morano. Solvable is the production of Pushkin Industries. 285 00:17:33,356 --> 00:17:36,156 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 286 00:17:36,236 --> 00:17:38,716 Speaker 1: and review. It helps us find our way to the 287 00:17:38,716 --> 00:17:43,116 Speaker 1: ears of new listeners. You can find Pushkin Podcasts wherever 288 00:17:43,196 --> 00:17:47,596 Speaker 1: you listen, including on the iHeartRadio app and Apple Podcasts. 289 00:17:48,196 --> 00:17:50,796 Speaker 1: I'm Ronald Young Jr. Thanks for listening.