WEBVTT - The White House's Position On Crypto's Climate Impact, Explained

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News. It's Thursday September. For this episode, we're doing

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<v Speaker 1>something a little bit different. It's based on a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>that two of our reporters, Alison Vers Brill and David

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<v Speaker 1>Pan had with Costa Samaris doing a live Twitter spaces event.

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<v Speaker 1>Costa Samrs is the White House Chief Advisor for Energy Policy.

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<v Speaker 1>He works out of the Office of Science and Technology Policy.

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<v Speaker 1>Our reporters and Costa discussed the recent crypto climate report

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<v Speaker 1>and what's next for u S efforts on climate and

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<v Speaker 1>non crypto. This episode features highlights from that conversation. Hello

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome everyone. Thanks for tuning in today. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Alison Verse Brol and I'm the cryptop Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>joining UM. The White House Office of Science and Technology

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<v Speaker 1>Policy released report earlier this month on the climate implications

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<v Speaker 1>of digital assets. Costa and your report. Your office lays

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<v Speaker 1>out some of the concerns about certain approaches for mining

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<v Speaker 1>and verifying crypto transactions, in particular and mechanism known as

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<v Speaker 1>proof of work. You also make recommendations on how to

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<v Speaker 1>address these concerns, including suggesting that the federal government collect

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<v Speaker 1>more data on power usage and work with states in

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<v Speaker 1>the crypto industry to set greener standards. Um, so what

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<v Speaker 1>does the main takeaway you want people to bring from

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<v Speaker 1>this report? Thanks so much for having me, Ali and David.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really a pleasure to be with you. But first,

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<v Speaker 1>before we get started, I just want to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that folks on understand where we're coming from. I sit

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<v Speaker 1>in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are the source of scientific and technological advice

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<v Speaker 1>and analysis for the President and the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>Executive Officer of the President around major policies and plans

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<v Speaker 1>and profits. And we did this report because in March

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<v Speaker 1>the pressure the President issued an executive work called Ensuring

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<v Speaker 1>the Responsible Development of Digital Assets. So the President tasked us,

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<v Speaker 1>the White House Officer as Science and Technology Policy, for

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<v Speaker 1>looking into the energy and environmental implications of crypto assets.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we got started, and we brought together a

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<v Speaker 1>group of interdisciplinary scientists and engineers and economists and others

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<v Speaker 1>to understand these broader issues and present some recommendations. And

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<v Speaker 1>so alle you asked, well, what did we find. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>at the highest level, we found that crypto assets represent

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<v Speaker 1>between point nine and one point seven percent of US

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<v Speaker 1>electricity use, and that the greenhouse gases that are associated

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<v Speaker 1>with crypto assets in the United States are between and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty million metric tons, which is about point forward to

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<v Speaker 1>point eight percent of US g HD emissions. These numbers

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<v Speaker 1>are not big, but they're also not small. And what

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<v Speaker 1>the report lays out is making sure that we have

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<v Speaker 1>a handle on understanding this growing industry and ensuring that

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<v Speaker 1>the benefits for all folks in the United States are

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<v Speaker 1>maximized and the harms are minimized. You mentioned some agencies

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<v Speaker 1>that that should take uh specific actions, either on disclosure

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<v Speaker 1>requirements or setting new standards. I'm curious, like, what's what's

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<v Speaker 1>the next step One might we actually see some action

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<v Speaker 1>coming out of the recommendations made in the report. So

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<v Speaker 1>what did our report find? So first, what was really piking?

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<v Speaker 1>And I think as we see a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>comments that have come in over the last couple of

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<v Speaker 1>days when we've been talking about this event, is we

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<v Speaker 1>need better information. The public needs information and transparency so

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<v Speaker 1>that we can enable some evidence based policy. And one

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<v Speaker 1>of the recommendations. Actually, the biggest recommendation in this report

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<v Speaker 1>is let's all get better information about this growing industry.

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<v Speaker 1>And that could be voluntary disclosures from UH, from the

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<v Speaker 1>mining industry, it could be surveys from utilities and from

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Energy UH, and it could be understanding

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<v Speaker 1>from state and local energy environmental agencies. And so with

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<v Speaker 1>some better information, we will be better able to understand

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<v Speaker 1>how to again maximize the benefits and minimize the damages.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the first overall recommendation. The second is really

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<v Speaker 1>focused on communities. And now you asked which agencies could

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<v Speaker 1>potentially be involved. This is something where there's a role

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<v Speaker 1>for the federal government, is a role for state and

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<v Speaker 1>local governments, and there's a role for the industry. We

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<v Speaker 1>think agencies like the Department of Energy and the Environmental

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<v Speaker 1>Protection Agency could come together with communities, with states and

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<v Speaker 1>the industry to develop some effective, evidence based environmental performance

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<v Speaker 1>standards for the deployment of this type of tech these

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<v Speaker 1>technologies in communities. We want to make sure that communities

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<v Speaker 1>are protected from air pollution, from water pollution, from noise

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<v Speaker 1>pollution UH and also that these crypto assets are helping

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<v Speaker 1>the grid which there is some innovation that potentially that

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<v Speaker 1>these could do this rather than harming the grid. We

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<v Speaker 1>also see a potential role for the Department Energy and

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<v Speaker 1>others to make sure that as these crypto assets grow quickly,

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<v Speaker 1>that we maintain energy affordability and reliability. And that's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the things that we found that was surprising is

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<v Speaker 1>that this is an industry that can grow really fast.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not to say that it will continue to

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<v Speaker 1>grow at that rate. The future growth is depends on

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<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of different factors. But because of the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to grow really fast, we want to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that the public is protected and that innovation can still

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<v Speaker 1>drive towards net zero emissions, lowest cost electricity, and healthy communities. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>when you you mentioned in there the you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>federal government working with states to address some standards or

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<v Speaker 1>create some standards to address pollution um and in the report,

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<v Speaker 1>you know you mentioned that if that doesn't work, the

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<v Speaker 1>White House may want to consider executive actions or Congress

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<v Speaker 1>may want to consider legislation. Is there sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>tipping point in your mind for when it would be

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<v Speaker 1>necessary to resort to kind of the plan B in

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<v Speaker 1>that particular part of the report, and I think when

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<v Speaker 1>we when we stand on our principles healthy communities, affordable energy,

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<v Speaker 1>getting to net zero emissions, we can have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of room for current innovation without any additional actions. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's no outline tipping point, there's no spreadsheet that says

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<v Speaker 1>after this other actions should be necessary. But I do

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<v Speaker 1>think it's important that as this industry grows and continues

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<v Speaker 1>to grow, that they grow in in balance and in

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<v Speaker 1>um in connection with the communities that they're operating in. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and one last question from me, and then I think

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<v Speaker 1>we'll turn to some audience questions. But you know, when

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<v Speaker 1>I talked to the crypto industry UM about some of

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<v Speaker 1>the concerns regarding proof of work, you know, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the times they'll give me a sense of being

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<v Speaker 1>unfairly singled out when other industries. Often they'll say cloud

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<v Speaker 1>computing also use a sizeable amount of energy. I'm curious

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<v Speaker 1>to get your thoughts on this, UM and why has

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<v Speaker 1>this become an area that's gotten so much attention. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that we looked at this is because there

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<v Speaker 1>was an executive order and we were tasked by the

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<v Speaker 1>President to understand this specific industry. I do think UM

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<v Speaker 1>that the the thing that makes this industry different from

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<v Speaker 1>many other types of new and emerging uses is the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to grow fast. As I keep mentioning that UM

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<v Speaker 1>United States was home to about three and a half

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<v Speaker 1>percent of bitcoin mining a couple of years ago, and

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<v Speaker 1>now it's more than thirty and so it's important to

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<v Speaker 1>understand how those trends can develop and how to minimize

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<v Speaker 1>impacts on communities. You know, the last big recommendation that

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<v Speaker 1>we had in this report is really about innovation, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think we'll probably get into it um

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<v Speaker 1>as as we continue this conversation, but there is innovation

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<v Speaker 1>to you use digital assets and crypto assets in in

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<v Speaker 1>reducing greenhouse gas emissions from vented methane, for example, or

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<v Speaker 1>by potentially using crypto assets to take advantage of renewable

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<v Speaker 1>energy that is not able to get to population centers.

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<v Speaker 1>One piece that that was in the report but I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't see get a lot of notice, was that distributed

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<v Speaker 1>ledger technology was used to help the California system reduce

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<v Speaker 1>its electricity use in in its grid stress events that

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<v Speaker 1>were happening in September. And again, as long as we

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<v Speaker 1>stand on those principles, net zero grid, affordable and reliable electricity,

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<v Speaker 1>and not harming communities. I think there's a huge potential

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<v Speaker 1>benefit to driving innovation in this second coming up more

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<v Speaker 1>from the Twitter spaces conversation with Alison Vera Sprawl, David

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<v Speaker 1>Pan and Costa Samaras from the White House. We have

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<v Speaker 1>a question from the audience on UM using stranded methane

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<v Speaker 1>to power mining. So this is from Denny from Duxbury, Massachusetts,

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<v Speaker 1>UM asking can bitcoin mining powered by natural gas that

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<v Speaker 1>would have otherwise been flared to help fund investments in

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<v Speaker 1>renewable energy UM the The example that they give is

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<v Speaker 1>in Texas, some shale drilling rigs are located beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>reach of pipelines, so the gas must be flared, releasing methane.

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<v Speaker 1>If this gas is instead used to power a mobile

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin mining rig, a portion of those revenues could be

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<v Speaker 1>channeled into renewable energy, thereby hoping the US become more

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<v Speaker 1>energy independent. Any thoughts on this. So, venting and flaring

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<v Speaker 1>methane happens at a bunch of different places. Happens at

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<v Speaker 1>oil and gas well, it happens at landfill, happens at

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<v Speaker 1>some sewage treatment, and some agriculture role. Processes and venting

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<v Speaker 1>and flaring methane at oil and gas wells waste about

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<v Speaker 1>four percent of global methane a year and contributes to

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<v Speaker 1>about four hundred million metric tons of c O two,

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<v Speaker 1>about point seven percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. So

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<v Speaker 1>in a world that gets to net zero emissions, we

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<v Speaker 1>want zero methane flare venting and methane flaring. If methane,

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<v Speaker 1>that would have been vented, So no methane should be

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<v Speaker 1>vented at all. The methane venting is bad. And so

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<v Speaker 1>why is it bad Because methane is a very potent

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<v Speaker 1>greenhouse gas emission. It's twenty seven to thirty times the

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<v Speaker 1>global warming potential of carbon dioxide over a hundred year timeframe,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the near term it's eighty times. It's powerful

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<v Speaker 1>of CEO two. So venting methane directly to the atmosphere

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<v Speaker 1>is bad for climate change, and we want to do

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<v Speaker 1>everything that we can to avoid that. And so typically

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<v Speaker 1>what's happened is vented methane is flare, just lit on fire,

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<v Speaker 1>completely wasted, and it's better that have flared methane than

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<v Speaker 1>vented methane. It would be even better to have that

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<v Speaker 1>methane be captured and used rather than wasted into the air.

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<v Speaker 1>And if mining operations can use vented or flared methane

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<v Speaker 1>to generate the electricity to do mining operations, there can

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<v Speaker 1>be a positive climate impact. So yes, absolutely, we want

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<v Speaker 1>to get venting to zero. We want to get flaring

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<v Speaker 1>as close as possible to zero. Again, this has to

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<v Speaker 1>be done in the understanding of impacts to local communities.

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<v Speaker 1>So flaring is still going to create CEO two. Flaring

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<v Speaker 1>is still going to create some emissions, and it's important

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<v Speaker 1>that additional flaring is not overburdening communities that have historically

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<v Speaker 1>had lots of amount of pollution. All right, well let's

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead then, I think this is a good time

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<v Speaker 1>to kick it over to David Pan, our bitcoin mining reporter.

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<v Speaker 1>So David over to you. Thank you. So here's the

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<v Speaker 1>question from the one of the listeners. So she is asking,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the top three enabling or complimentary policies the

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<v Speaker 1>administration could implement to leverage bitcoin mining as a tool

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<v Speaker 1>for lower and growing house gas emissions. Well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the recommendations from our report focus on better information, minimizing

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<v Speaker 1>impacts on communities, and driving innovation, and so those are

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<v Speaker 1>the three the areas that we focused on going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>The question is how can mining drive towards net zero emissions?

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<v Speaker 1>I would put that under our Driving Innovation recommendation, and

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<v Speaker 1>really it's demonstrating the ability and the trend, the preference

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<v Speaker 1>and ultimately, hopefully the majority operating conditions that this industry

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<v Speaker 1>drives towards building additional renewables, building additional storage, getting emissions

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<v Speaker 1>down to net zero as quickly as possible. Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>to Allison, David Anto Costa Samorrow. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>of Allison's reporting and of David's reporting on the Bloomberg terminal,

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<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg dot com or on Twitter. Allison is at

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<v Speaker 1>ali their sprill that's a L L y v E

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<v Speaker 1>R s p R I L l E, and David

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<v Speaker 1>is at david Pan Underscore one. That's d A v

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<v Speaker 1>I d p A N Underscore one. On the next

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<v Speaker 1>episode of Bloomberg Crypto for Poets, April might be the

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<v Speaker 1>cruelest month for traders, though September is definitely the one

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<v Speaker 1>to fare. So what's the outlook for crypto prices as

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<v Speaker 1>we head towards the end of the year. Is there

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<v Speaker 1>any sign of a thought in this Crypto Winter, who

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<v Speaker 1>can say or guests m This is Bloomberg Crypto, a

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<v Speaker 1>at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina.

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<v Speaker 1>Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Associate producer is Moses

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<v Speaker 1>on them Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music

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<v Speaker 1>by Leo Sidran. I'm Stacy Marie Shmal. We'll be back

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<v Speaker 1>tomorrow