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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, October twenty ninth, and yes,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. First and foremost,

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Speaker 2: where is Melody Buzzard? She is nine years old. She

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Speaker 2: has been missing for weeks. Her mother was the last

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Speaker 2: person to be seen with her on a road trip

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Speaker 2: and is not cooperating with authorities. Why we need answers

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Speaker 2: and have a very serious update. Also, ex Deputy Sean Grayson,

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Speaker 2: which we discussed the other night, has been convicted of

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Speaker 2: second degree murder in the murder of Sonia Mason in

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Speaker 2: her home. He's a police officer that should have used

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Speaker 2: a taser or something de escalating and shows to murder

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Speaker 2: her instead. We've all seen this video and it is

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Speaker 2: it's beyond measure, frankly. And then plus we have journalist

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Speaker 2: Paige Stockton with us. She's been following this case that

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Speaker 2: we're all slightly obsessed with, called the Gods misfits murders.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't heard of this, It's about this custody

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Speaker 2: to dispute and two beautiful souls have lost their lives

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Speaker 2: and it is a tangled web. And we have the

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Speaker 2: journalist who has been following it since day one. Plus

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Speaker 2: later in the show, we have Dorano Fear, our pop

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Speaker 2: culture expert, back with us at last.

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Speaker 3: He's going to tell us.

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Speaker 2: A little bit about Halloween in general, but maybe more significantly,

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Speaker 2: the history of the film Halloween and some cases that

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Speaker 2: have been inspired by it, which is both scary and

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Speaker 2: riveting all at the same time. And if we have

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Speaker 2: enough time, we're also going to get to Poltergeist, which

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Speaker 2: you know we have all named as one of the

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Speaker 2: scariest movies of all time, terrifying.

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Speaker 3: I'm Stephan.

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Speaker 2: And I get to be here with my true crime

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Speaker 2: mates Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and of course

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Speaker 2: we have Taha, Sam and Adam with us in the house.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 2: I was out last night. I had some tech stuff.

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Speaker 2: It was so super stressful, but boy, you guys held

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Speaker 2: on the fort. I heard a lot of Trader Joe's

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Speaker 2: tips went down and I am inspired and Courtney to

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Speaker 2: get me off my anxiety. Hill sent me some tortilla

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Speaker 2: chips today because she knows me too well via Amazon

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Speaker 2: to a different state. And I'm so happy to be

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Speaker 2: with you, guys.

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Speaker 3: We're happy to have you back, babies. We were just

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Speaker 3: not the same without you.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're just fine. The show is perfect and wonderful

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Speaker 2: and I just missed you guys. So anybody listen, we

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Speaker 2: want to hear from you. Eight eight eight three one crime.

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Speaker 2: Please join us. It brings us so much joy. And

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Speaker 2: then also, of course you could always leave us a

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Speaker 2: talk back on the iHeartRadio app or.

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Speaker 3: Hit us up on our socials.

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Speaker 2: But listen, we have a lot to get to tonight,

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Speaker 2: So let's start with this case that is breaking all

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Speaker 2: of our hearts. Nine year old Melanie Buzzard. If you

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Speaker 2: haven't seen her photograph, I encourage you to look. She

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Speaker 2: is arguably the most beautiful little nine years she's ever

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Speaker 2: seen in your life, with the brown, curly hair, smiles

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Speaker 2: for miles, and she has been missing in scrupulous circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Is it inscrupulous? Unscrupulous?

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Speaker 2: I know it's I believe, Yeah, terrifying, let's call it that,

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Speaker 2: And we need some answers. And it's shocking to me

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Speaker 2: that mom has stopped cooperating with law enforcement. So body,

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Speaker 2: I know this is so close to your heart. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is a really really sad story.

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Speaker 3: So warning. So her name is Melody Buzzard and it's

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Speaker 3: spelled m E l.

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Speaker 4: O d ee.

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Speaker 3: If you want to do a quick Google search so

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Speaker 3: you can pull up her picture and get familiar with

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Speaker 3: her face. Time is of the essence, you know, and

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Speaker 3: it's important to know what she looks like. So she's

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Speaker 3: a nine year old girl. She's from Vandenberg Village, California,

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Speaker 3: which is just outside Lompoc, which is just north of

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Speaker 3: Santa Barbara, if you're familiar with California. Well, she was

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Speaker 3: reported missing on October fourteenth after a school administrator reported

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Speaker 3: her prolonged absence from school. Authorities are actively searching for her,

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Speaker 3: and the FBI is in assisting with this investigation. But

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Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't. That's not where it ends, that's

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Speaker 3: not even where it remotely even begins. Even it's a

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Speaker 3: very kind of convoluted story. I'm gonna do the best

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Speaker 3: to tell it as quickly as possible. So Melody, Melody's mother.

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Speaker 3: Her name is Ashley Buzzard and and Ashley Buzzard rented

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Speaker 3: a car from Lompoc and the police have just released

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Speaker 3: some surveillance footage. And in the surveillance footage renting this

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Speaker 3: car on October seventh, Melody is wearing a disguise. And

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Speaker 3: you know, Melody's got like this beautiful curly hair, and

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Speaker 3: in this disguise that she's wearing, she's wearing like a

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Speaker 3: long black wig and very very straight. Yes, that's thank you,

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Speaker 3: that's important, like a straight black wig. And then on

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Speaker 3: top of that, she's got like a hoodie up over

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Speaker 3: her head. But the authorities are saying that is Melody Buzzard. Again,

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Speaker 3: she's nine years old and she's missing. Well, on October seventh,

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Speaker 3: she rented this car, her mom rented this car, this

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Speaker 3: white Malibu, and drove it all the way from California

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Speaker 3: to Nebraska. And then on October tenth, was the tenth,

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Speaker 3: came home from Nebraska, and then on the fourteenth, she

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Speaker 3: was reported missing. Cops go knock on the door and

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Speaker 3: Melody's mother, Ashley, is not cooperating with the police. She's

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Speaker 3: not giving them any verifiable information on where Melody is located.

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Speaker 3: You know, they told melodies mom, Ashley again. Her name

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Speaker 3: is Ashley Buzzard, Mom who's forty years old. By the way,

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Speaker 3: they told her on the twenty second of August. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: August October, which is what seven days ago. You have

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Speaker 3: seventy two hours to let us know and you know,

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Speaker 3: provide verifiable proof of where your daughter is, and that

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Speaker 3: time has come and gone and there has been no arrest.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, keep in mind, so mom gets

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Speaker 2: in a car with her daughter in disguise, which is

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Speaker 2: very clear, and she's in disguise at the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the trip. So even as they're leaving home to go

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Speaker 2: on this weird, you know, car trip to Arkansas for

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Speaker 2: no reason Nebraska. Rather, they don't really know why this

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Speaker 2: trip was a trip and what was in Nebraska, what

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Speaker 2: was the destination? And then Mom comes home by herself. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, Melody's in school, she's nine years old. She's

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Speaker 2: in school. It's kind of a homeschool scenario where she

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Speaker 2: has to check in with the school pretty regularly. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: she does not check in, and the school really kind

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Speaker 2: of rattles the alarm, as they should, thankfully. So Mom

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Speaker 2: comes back without her daughter and law enforcement would like

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Speaker 2: to know where's your daughter, And she's not given it up,

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Speaker 2: which is unbelievable. And even mom's parents mother specifically, and

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Speaker 2: the paternal parents, they all want answers. It's also important

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Speaker 2: to note dad lost his life in a motorcycle accident

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Speaker 2: years prior, so this is a single mom with allegedly

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Speaker 2: some mental issues, and there's both sides.

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Speaker 3: Both sides of the family kind of speak to mom's

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Speaker 3: mental state. So the dad who passed away, Melody's father,

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Speaker 3: he died in a motorcycle accident when Melody was only

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Speaker 3: like six months old, and he had another daughter who's

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Speaker 3: a lot older, and his daughter, who is also of course,

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Speaker 3: Melody's half sister, said that Ashley the mom kind of

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Speaker 3: started maybe not doing so hot after dad died, and

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Speaker 3: Melody's Melody's mom, Ashley again, Ashley's mom, said that she

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Speaker 3: got a call from CPS a few years ago saying

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Speaker 3: that they were going to be taking taking Melody from

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Speaker 3: the home to the state of the home, and she

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Speaker 3: said it was just really a mess and there was

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Speaker 3: like rotting food, and you know, they were she was

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Speaker 3: giving her child rotting food to eat, oh dear, And

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Speaker 3: so obviously obviously there's something like kind of wrong, and

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Speaker 3: both sides of the family are saying that they haven't. Basically,

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Speaker 3: Ashley cut off communication with everyone in the family and

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Speaker 3: none of them have seen their granddaughter or niece or

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Speaker 3: half sister for years.

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Speaker 5: Good grief, Well this is true, Creme. Tonight, we're on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 5: I'm Courtney here with Buddy Movin and Stephanie Leidecker and

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Speaker 5: we're talking about the really disturbing case of missing nine

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Speaker 5: year old Melody Buzzard and trying to sort out what

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Speaker 5: is going on with this convoluted clay case. If you

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Speaker 5: have any thoughts on the case, we do want to

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Speaker 5: hear from you, give us a call. We're at eighty

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Speaker 5: eight to three to one crime.

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Speaker 4: So body, this trip, the drive took about.

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Speaker 5: Twenty hours, I think if you go southern California, So

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Speaker 5: the turnaround was only three days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, seventh through the tenth. So she left on the

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Speaker 3: seventh to drive to Nebraska, and then when she came

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Speaker 3: home it was the tenth and then the of course,

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Speaker 3: the authorities were alerted on the fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was a destination in mind and there

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Speaker 2: was a disguise. Both mom and daughter were kind of disguised.

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Speaker 2: But you know, again Melody was like this big beautiful

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Speaker 2: hair almost you have to see the photo to really

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Speaker 2: appreciate her really beautiful locks. So the fact that she's

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Speaker 2: in a wig, in a disguise, you know, it's red

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Speaker 2: flag galore. And I think all of our Spidey senses

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Speaker 2: are just nauseated because it has some crossover. We remember

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Speaker 2: Laurie Vallo taught, you know, the mother who was cult

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Speaker 2: mom who everybody was looking for her two beautiful children,

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Speaker 2: and you know she was really you know, not giving

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Speaker 2: any inferi flint.

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Speaker 3: She was solved. It was a maddening mad there. It

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Speaker 3: didn't seem to be any legal recourse.

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Speaker 2: And in this case as well, it seems as though

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Speaker 2: there have been some boundaries given by law enforcement about

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Speaker 2: an impending but that doesn't seem to have happened well.

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Speaker 5: And law enforcement has said that the non arrest of Ashley,

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Speaker 5: which seems crazy in common sense, which is sometimes different

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Speaker 5: from the law, but law enforcement is saying there is

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Speaker 5: a lack of clear criminal evidence at this stage. Right,

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Speaker 5: so body had pontificated before we started the show. Perhaps

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Speaker 5: a judge is you know, a little reticent to sign

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Speaker 5: the order to allow the arrest to go through if

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Speaker 5: there's not enough to back it up, which can then

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Speaker 5: ultimately ruin an investigation.

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Speaker 3: But right, but I do think that there's some probable

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Speaker 3: cause to search for, you know, search moms electronics and

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Speaker 3: see who she was talking to in Nebraska.

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Speaker 4: I agree more.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she had to have been talking to somebody like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to meet you, I'm coming out, you know,

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Speaker 3: even if we just spend a day together or you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean like something, But how do you

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Speaker 3: come home alone?

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Speaker 2: And by the way, if your child is in your custody,

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Speaker 2: therefore you should have to explain where they are if

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Speaker 2: they are somewhat missing. This is a nine year old,

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Speaker 2: a perfect little human. So how is it possible that

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Speaker 2: that in and of itself isn't something to get arrested

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Speaker 2: for or to be brought into custody to be properly questioned.

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Speaker 3: And you don't have to be arrested in order to

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Speaker 3: turn over your electronics either, right, Like, you can get

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Speaker 3: a search for I don't know that. Oh for sure,

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Speaker 3: they can get a search warrant easily if they have

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Speaker 3: enough evidence to suspect something happened electronically.

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Speaker 6: They have.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they don't need to arrest her. They can

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Speaker 3: go to her house, knock at our door, give her

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Speaker 3: a search warrant that they're taking her electronics.

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Speaker 2: And there doesn't appear to be any real reason that

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Speaker 2: she was going to that destination. So there doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to be any obvious family member or somebody in Melody's

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Speaker 2: life that would make sense that suddenly Mom feels like

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Speaker 2: this twenty hour road trip is reasonable or makes sense,

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Speaker 2: even though Melody was missing school in order to do it.

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Speaker 2: And why the disguise? So you know those elems? Mom

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Speaker 2: not cooperating her mother and you know her now deceased

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Speaker 2: x as an ex if it's you know she's a widow.

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Speaker 2: His family also wants answers. Law enforcement is involved, and

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Speaker 2: Melody's missing from school? Why the disguise, why the cross

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Speaker 2: country trip? And why did you come home alone? Number one?

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Speaker 2: And if your daughter is missing, why are you not

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Speaker 2: screaming from the rooftop? Please help me find her?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 3: It has a little casey Anthony Topma, Well right.

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Speaker 8: Oh god, when you mentioned the electronics, I'm just curious, like,

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Speaker 8: if they can get a search warrant for that, wouldn't

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Speaker 8: that be the first step, because now you can see

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Speaker 8: where she stopped for a few minutes or a long time.

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Speaker 3: And they may have I mean we don't. They might

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Speaker 3: not just be sharing that with us. They may already

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Speaker 3: have done that. We don't know.

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Speaker 9: Yah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's an open investigation, they're probably not. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they're not going to tell us what they're doing, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean. Investigatively, I have in.

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Speaker 2: Every app following me right now I can find out

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Speaker 2: Postmates is literally Postmates is like crawling.

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Speaker 3: Through my window.

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Speaker 2: How is it possible that anybody gets away with anything?

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Speaker 2: So we know that mom had a phone, We know

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Speaker 2: that she has some sort of a digital footprint, she

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Speaker 2: has some sort of a social footprint. Melody is a

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Speaker 2: very affable, loved little girl with family members who want answers.

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Speaker 3: How do we not have any This seems implausible to me.

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Speaker 5: Well, it might be. A body said that it's they're

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Speaker 5: keeping it close hold. I mean, since the FBI has

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Speaker 5: joined the investigation, we know that they are thank god

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Speaker 5: so adept and have just teams of the highest experts

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Speaker 5: working on this.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she crossed state lines and it's kidnapping. The FBI

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Speaker 3: automatically takes over from there. I mean, it's especially with

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Speaker 3: kidnapping across state lines, because this is possibly that you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm redicted to say this, but her her half sister,

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Speaker 3: her name is Karina Mezza, and she is the half

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Speaker 3: of the missing Melody, and she says, you know that

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Speaker 3: she's fearful that she could have been sold.

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Speaker 2: If that was the first thing I thought, I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to say it, but the first thing I thought

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Speaker 2: when doing all of this deep dive. I my first

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Speaker 2: thought was Melody has been sold. And that is horrific.

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Speaker 2: That's a horrific thought. It is unfounded, by the way,

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Speaker 2: But hearing you say that, that's like as a dagger

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Speaker 2: in the heart.

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Speaker 3: I know we're going to be well up on it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we will be following it.

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Speaker 5: We'll keep you updated, and it's important to note the

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Speaker 5: sheriff hazards the public to avoid amateur investigations and report

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Speaker 5: factual tips directly to authorities. When we come back, we're

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Speaker 5: very excited. We have journalist Paige Stockton who's going to

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Speaker 5: fill us in on everything God's Misfits related. We have

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Speaker 5: a lot of Halloween stuff planned second hour.

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Speaker 4: Keep it here at your Crime.

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Speaker 2: Tonight Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 4: We're talking true crime.

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Speaker 3: All the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here, of course, with my mates Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body move In. I missed saying that last night,

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Speaker 2: so I'm like stomping on my chest as i say

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Speaker 2: it with my mates. And then we have another one

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Speaker 2: joining us right now, me docked In, the extraordinary journalist.

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Speaker 2: So she's been following this case called God's Misfits Murders,

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Speaker 2: which we've all been following as well, and we had

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Speaker 2: talked about this behind the scenes, and we're like, what

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Speaker 2: what happened.

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Speaker 3: To that case?

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Speaker 2: Because it is a wicked tale, and as we started

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Speaker 2: to talk about it, it went on to ten thousand tangents.

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Speaker 2: At its core, it's a story about custody of children

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Speaker 2: and two lives were law as a result of pure

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Speaker 2: murder in Mayhem and Paige, every time we were doing research,

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Speaker 2: Paige was the person who was like the journalist in

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Speaker 2: every article, like she was the one that was reporting

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Speaker 2: on it everywhere. So we're so happy, Paige, welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show. We're so glad that you're here. I honestly

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Speaker 2: wish under a lighter topic. But now that you are,

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Speaker 2: we know that we're getting this story at the source

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Speaker 2: because of your great work. And I'll stop talking so

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Speaker 2: you can kind of give us the layup. But this

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Speaker 2: is a tangled web and it's for the record. Just

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Speaker 2: at KT Studios, we made the piked In Massacre podcast

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Speaker 2: and we hope you'll listen if you haven't, we've done

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Speaker 2: many seasons of that as well as a documentary, the

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Speaker 2: Pie County Murders, and that too was this twisted tale

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Speaker 2: that allegedly at the core was custody which never added up,

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Speaker 2: like for the love of your childild really and this

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Speaker 2: case is no different.

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Speaker 3: Well, the God's Misfits they're you know, at their core

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Speaker 3: are like sovereign citizens and you believe children are property, right,

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Speaker 3: So the way they view it is a little different

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Speaker 3: than like us, right, right, don't you exact accurate? So

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Speaker 3: they see their children as a cult? Is it a

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Speaker 3: religious group?

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Speaker 5: But well we should start from the beginning, I think,

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Speaker 5: because in the sovereign Yeah. So for people who don't

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Speaker 5: know what this God's Misfits case is about, are you

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Speaker 5: able to? I know it's a complicated, but give us

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Speaker 5: kind of lay in the land.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, of course, so I started taking over this case

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Speaker 10: around August of twenty twenty four. Previously a reporter here

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Speaker 10: in Amarillo with new Channel ten. She had actually started

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Speaker 10: it from the beginning when they were missing, and she

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Speaker 10: moved on to another station. And so when I heard

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Speaker 10: that this kind of story was up for grabs is

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Speaker 10: the wrong word, but something that could be covered, I

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Speaker 10: immediately went to my director and said, I want to

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Speaker 10: cover this. And it was still so much in the

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Speaker 10: beginning stages of what this story ended up becoming, and

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Speaker 10: so kind of a short or long story short. There

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Speaker 10: are five people, Tiffany Adams, Paul Grice, Cora and Cole

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Speaker 10: Twombley and Tad Cullum. They were friends. They had kind

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Speaker 10: of gone to high school together. They had known each

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Speaker 10: other for many, many years, and they kind of all

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Speaker 10: came together and created this group called God's Misfits. And

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Speaker 10: what God's Misfits were is a kind of religious They

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Speaker 10: did not agree with a lot of the religious organizations

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Speaker 10: that they had in their town. We had kind of

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Speaker 10: talked to it about it previously, sovereign citizens. They they

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Speaker 10: believed that they they maybe not were above the law,

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Speaker 10: but didn't agree with a lot of the laws and

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Speaker 10: didn't think that they applied to them. And so they

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Speaker 10: created this group and it was not just the five

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Speaker 10: of them. It was actually a much larger group, about

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Speaker 10: ten to fifteen more people that were a part of this.

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Speaker 10: They were going to these and I can't remember the

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Speaker 10: name of the of the people that they were going

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Speaker 10: to see, but they were going and trying to go

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Speaker 10: through the process of becoming sovereign citizens. And during that

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Speaker 10: is obviously when Tiffany Adams was working through trying to

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Speaker 10: gain custody or take custody away from Veronica Butler and

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Speaker 10: so Wrangler. Her son was in rehab. They had custody,

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Speaker 10: but he was in rehab, so she had custody Tiffany

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Speaker 10: Adams did, and so this was just a kind of

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Speaker 10: custody dispute that they were working through and trying to

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Speaker 10: figure out. Tiffany Adams had kind of run out of

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Speaker 10: money to get through this, and so this is kind

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Speaker 10: of it all came down to this.

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Speaker 2: So just to simplify, because you don's a good job

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Speaker 2: of this, So hei there's mom, mom and dad. They

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Speaker 2: split up, Dad goes to rehab, but they have a

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Speaker 2: child and that child is sort of what is up

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Speaker 2: for conversation? And when dad is in rehab, Dad's mom

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Speaker 2: steps in, right, that's Tiffany. So the paternal grandmother steps

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Speaker 2: in and she starts dealing with some of this custody stuff.

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Speaker 10: Right.

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Speaker 2: So now it's the paternal grandmother and mom of this

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Speaker 2: young child who are all dad's inhab and Dad's in rehab.

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Speaker 2: So they're starting to butt heads and mom is like,

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Speaker 2: I would like to see my child, and the grandmother

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Speaker 2: is like, well, you know, I think I'm in charge,

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Speaker 2: and so begins what seems like a feud.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and Veronica Butler had gotten her rights taken away,

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Speaker 10: so she was under purely supervised visitations, whether that be

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Speaker 10: with somebody that the courts or Tiffany Adams had kind

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Speaker 10: of approved through, or somebody that Veronica Butler brought along.

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Speaker 10: They also had to be approved by the courts, but

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Speaker 10: it was supervised visitation that Veronica Butler had to have

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Speaker 10: with her children. And that was why Jilly and Kelly

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Speaker 10: was also involved in this as well. She was just

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Speaker 10: an innocent and not saying that Veronica Butler wasn't, but

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Speaker 10: Gillian Kelly was just there to kind of be with

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Speaker 10: them during one of those supervised visitation days.

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Speaker 3: Because dismissed the normal supervised the person that the person

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Speaker 3: that would normally did the supervision. Tiffany said, I don't

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Speaker 3: need you to show up.

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Speaker 2: And Tiffy's grandma, right, So Grandma grandma.

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Speaker 3: She calls Veronica and says, you can come, but you

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Speaker 3: got to bring your own, you know, supervisor.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and this was I mean a big tip.

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Speaker 3: To the police that something went down.

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Speaker 2: So then she brings a supervisor, meaning Mom does not

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Speaker 2: have the ability to see her child without a supervisor.

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Speaker 2: So she brings kind of the second person as a

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Speaker 2: supervisor to go on this road trip for her son's birthday,

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Speaker 2: and Grandma is giving her a hard time, saying, all right,

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Speaker 2: well you can come, but but and so this said

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Speaker 2: road trip kind of begins for this birthday party where

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Speaker 2: mom was going to finally have some visitation with her son.

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Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I think it was every Saturday she got

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Speaker 10: to visit with her children. And so, yeah, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 10: Tippany Adams had kind of waved away her own person

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Speaker 10: that she had brought into it and just was like,

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Speaker 10: you know what, you can bring your own and kind

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Speaker 10: of go from there. So it's a there's a lot

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Speaker 10: of moving parts of there is.

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Speaker 3: You're doing a really good job so far. This is

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Speaker 3: true crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're talking true crime

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Speaker 3: all the time. We're right in the middle of talking

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Speaker 3: about the God's Misfits. If you want to weigh and

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Speaker 3: give us a call eight at eight thirty one Crime. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So Jillian and Veronica they get in the car in

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Speaker 3: Kansas and they drive to Oklahoma, and they get to

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Speaker 3: Oklahoma and then and then guess what, something happens and

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Speaker 3: their car is abandoned. Okay, and then you know, Jillian's husband,

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Speaker 3: who is a pastor in Kansas, He's like, I can't

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Speaker 3: get hold with Jillian. I can't get hold of Jillian.

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Speaker 3: And Jillian's mom Jillian is the mom. No, Jillian is

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Speaker 3: the mom supervisor, the lady who is accompanying Veronica on

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Speaker 3: this trip to Oklahoma.

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Speaker 2: Veronica's mom, Jillian is a supervisor. Right, two moms and

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Speaker 2: women are on this like they disappeared a road trip

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Speaker 2: and like nobody hears from them.

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Speaker 3: Nobody hears from them, and it's kind of like the

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Speaker 3: middle of nowhere. I remember me and my friend Niho

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Speaker 3: going down Google Maps looking at where this where they

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Speaker 3: disappear from, and there's like no thing there. Yeah, nothing.

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Speaker 3: It's like a very rural place. And the yaps show

434
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: up and they find a hammer and I think eyeglass eyes.

435
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: Got right, right, if I'm remembering correctly, there were some eyeglasses.

436
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: There were eyeglasses and a hammer, I think, and blood,

437
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 3: by the way. Blood. But the moms are gone and

438
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 3: the car is just sitting there, so obviously something has happened, right,

439
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: And that's kind of where, you know, they start looking

440
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 3: for them. And how long was the search for these two?

441
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: I can't remember. Do you remember?

442
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 10: It was less than a week? It was? It was

443
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 10: just a few days because very quickly they kind of

444
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 10: got the four original so Tiffany, Tad, Cora, and Cole

445
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 10: they arrested pretty quickly after this happened, and then they

446
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 10: found them. I want to say it was less than

447
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 10: a week, less than okay.

448
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 3: So I just went and got it. They disappeared on

449
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: March thirtieth, That's the day they vanished, and they were

450
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: their bodies were found on April fourteenth, and oh wow, okay,

451
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 3: so it was about two weeks. Yeah, okay, it's hard

452
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: to remember. It was a you know, a couple of

453
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 3: years ago.

454
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they get found and suddenly they're found

455
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: in a refrigerator that's been buried.

456
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, I think that that was the hard part

457
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 10: was that they were where they were found was so

458
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 10: kind of secluded, and how they were buried and things

459
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 10: like that was so kind.

460
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 6: Of out of the way.

461
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 10: That that was the hard part was they knew kind

462
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 10: of who did it, but they didn't know that's what

463
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 10: it was. They knew kind of who did it, but

464
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 10: they didn't know where right, kind.

465
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: Of what happened, right, So it just so everybody knows too.

466
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: They were found buried, this freezer was buried right on

467
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 3: a private on property belonging to which was it Paul No,

468
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: Paul Greis didn't own the property, was a hole nobody

469
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: connected to them.

470
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 10: Yes, it was one of Tad Colum's friends.

471
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: Okay, that's right.

472
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 10: Yes, it was one of Tad Colum's friends that owned

473
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 10: the property who he actually gave testimony in the preliminary hearings.

474
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 10: He has sadly since passed away.

475
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: Oh I didn't know that, Oh didn't So, yeah.

476
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 10: The where the owner of the property where the bodies

477
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 10: were found, he has passed away since he gave testimony

478
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 10: in the preliminary hearings. But yeah, it was a friend

479
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 10: of Tad Colums or an acquaintance that he had worked

480
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 10: with previously, because they all worked with in like agriculture

481
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 10: and things like that. So yeah, he it was like

482
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 10: a friend or acquaintance of Tad Colums.

483
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 5: And what goo ahead I was gonna say, So when

484
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 5: when these the bodies of these two women are found

485
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 5: again April fourteenth, two weeks after they disappeared in that

486
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 5: buried chest. So the land is rented by members of

487
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 5: the God's Misfits. The menu are just referring to can

488
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 5: you explain.

489
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 4: Who or what?

490
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 5: I don't know the appropriate phrasing God's Misfits are.

491
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 10: So God's Misfits is a religious and political I wouldn't

492
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 10: even say organization because it wasn't anything that they had

493
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 10: like put pen to paper or anything like that. It

494
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 10: was just a group of friends people who all had

495
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 10: the same political and religious ideologies. So they all believed

496
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 10: that the religions that they had around them were not

497
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 10: did not fit in what they believed. And then they

498
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 10: also in the political aspect, they believed themselves to want

499
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 10: to be sovereign citizens. A lot of them had started

500
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 10: going through the process of becoming sovereign citizens. So there's

501
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 10: paperwork and there's a lot of things that you have

502
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 10: to do to actually get through that. So they had

503
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 10: started going through that process.

504
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 6: So this quote.

505
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 10: Unquote organization was a political and religious ideology group where

506
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 10: they just met every Wednesday and Sunday. It was kind

507
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 10: of like a church group that would meet every Wednesday

508
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 10: and Sunday and they would just sit and talk about

509
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 10: religion and politics. Is I think the best way to

510
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 10: kind of describe what God's misfits was.

511
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good explanation. They're sovereign citizens

512
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: who also really believe in the qn on.

513
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 10: Yes, but none of them had actually become sovereign citizens

514
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 10: at that point because they were working through the process

515
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 10: and apparently there's this long paperwork process that you have

516
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 10: to go to go through, but they were in the

517
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 10: process of becoming sovereign citizens. And then, like I said,

518
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 10: just like that religious ideologies.

519
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Paul Grice has a whole like kind of like

520
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: manifesto out there about why he's a sovereign citizen. It's

521
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: very interesting. If you ever want to do some What

522
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 3: is a sovereign citizen?

523
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: I know the answer to, thank you, because we did

524
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: a lot with Native America and reservations where there's so

525
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: much trafficking and these don't get me started. But we

526
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: say sovereign citizen, and I just want to make sure

527
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: that our listeners are up to speed on exactly what

528
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: that means.

529
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: It's it's a long it's probably a two segment answer

530
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 3: for that, honestly. But the members they adhere to the

531
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: Sovereign Citizen movement, which they deny the legitimacy of federal

532
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: and state laws and the authority of the government. They

533
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: think the United States government is a illegitimate company. They're

534
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: literally insane.

535
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: So therefore they have their own set of laws, they

536
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: have their own set of law enforcement, and they enforce

537
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: their own law enforcement.

538
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 3: There's no such things. They have noment of their own.

539
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: The Native American Indigenous sovereign stuff is so totally different

540
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: than what these people believe. They believe that they don't

541
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: have to have license plates, they don't have the authority

542
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 3: to be pulled over in moving vehicles. They only get,

543
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: you know, have to answer laws that are made and

544
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 3: Native I mean there do you remember Darryl Brooks, the

545
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: guys case.

546
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 10: I want the guy he was.

547
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: He's a sovereign citizen and he that in his case.

548
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: If you want to know about sovereign citizens, watch his trial.

549
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: He's you will understand the problem with sovereign citizens. They're illegitimate.

550
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: There's really no such thing. It's crazy. Well, say tuned.

551
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: We're going to continue this conversation because I got a

552
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: lot of questions for Paige. Keep it right here in

553
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 3: True Crime tonight, and don't forget give us a call

554
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: eighty eight thirty one Crime if you have questions.

555
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Body Moven, Courtney Armstrong and

556
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: a very special guest. We have Page Stockton with us,

557
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: and she's been discussing this hideous case, these god misfits murders,

558
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 2: which is you know, at its core, I guess you know,

559
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: based on custody. But we were knee deep into it,

560
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: and Paige want to make sure that we give you

561
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: all the time possible to untangle this hideous web.

562
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, of course. So we left off kind of talking

563
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 10: about where they found the women in the freezers and

564
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 10: things like that, and so kind of hearing from preliminary trials.

565
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 10: You kind of hear them talking about the planning and

566
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 10: the setup of these murders and things like that. This

567
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 10: was something that was planned for months. Tiffany Adams asked

568
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 10: these people to be involved to help murder Veronica Butler,

569
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 10: and as Tiffany Adams, the grandmother of these two of

570
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 10: the children involved in this case, said, just kind of

571
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 10: collateral damage Jilly and Kelly and so, yeah, so we

572
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 10: go through the process of hearing about how they had

573
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 10: planned on like throwing an anvil out of the back

574
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 10: of a car.

575
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 3: I forgot about Hill.

576
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, Paul, our Tad and Cora and Paul were all

577
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 10: going to get together on Veronica's birthday and throw an

578
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 10: anvil out of the back of a truck so that

579
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 10: it would land in Veronica Butler's car and she would

580
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 10: die that way. And they actually had Tiffany asked them

581
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 10: to practice. They didn't end up doing that because that

582
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 10: doesn't make any sense in the long run. But and

583
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 10: then Veronica Butler didn't go anywhere on her birthday, so

584
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 10: it didn't end up working out. So then they had

585
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 10: to kind of move over and that is where we

586
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 10: kind of end up with the plan of they were

587
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 10: going to have a cattle truck or a cattle where

588
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 10: you keep cattle and say, the kids are in there

589
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 10: with goats or I can't remember what the animal was.

590
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 10: Come in here and look and see your kids with

591
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 10: while they're coming to Gillian Kelly and Veronica Butler are

592
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 10: coming to pick up the kids. Hey, we have your

593
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 10: kids in the back of this cattle truck with these animals.

594
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 10: Come and look how cute blah blahlah blah, and Tad

595
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 10: Cullum and Paul Grice were going to be in the

596
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 10: back ready to attack. They investigators then found receipts of

597
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 10: buying stun guns and buying phones and different things like that,

598
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 10: and that is when they attacked these two women and

599
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 10: ultimately killed them. And then after all of those things happened,

600
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 10: it ended up showing all of the receipts there was.

601
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 10: The planning of this was not very good, but the

602
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 10: execution of putting them into the freezer and like hiding

603
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 10: them was very well thought out.

604
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 4: So it was kind of.

605
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 10: A crazy kind of way to do that. But yeah,

606
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 10: they ended up Paul Grice ended up murdering one of

607
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 10: the women, and that is kind of where we're at now,

608
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 10: is Cadculum is fighting saying I didn't kill anyone. I

609
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 10: didn't murder anyone. Paul actually killed both of these women.

610
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 10: I was just there And that is kind of how

611
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 10: Tad is fighting this. And then Cole.

612
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 6: Didn't know.

613
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 10: He only found out about this these murders in this

614
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 10: plan like a week before this was all going to happen.

615
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 10: He was not involved in a lot of that planning.

616
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 10: So I'm kind of jumping around to a lot of

617
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 10: different places.

618
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 5: But do we know how do we know how these

619
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 5: women were killed? I know there was a bloody or

620
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 5: there was blood and a hammer?

621
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: Was that? How are these women killed?

622
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 10: So Kiffany, So Paul Gryce stabbed Veronica Butler nearly thirty

623
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 10: or so times. He tried to hit her with a

624
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 10: hammer and it broke, so he then had to attack

625
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 10: her and he stabbed her multiple times, ended up cutting

626
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 10: his own hand in that struggle in fight, so his

627
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 10: DNA was everywhere. And then how Paul describes it in

628
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 10: his preliminary trial was that he stabbed Veronica Butler thirty times.

629
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 10: He didn't know how many, but in the end the

630
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 10: any report showed it was about thirty times he put

631
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 10: her into the cattle truck him and Tad put her

632
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 10: into the cattle truck. He's saying, Gillian Kelly is in there,

633
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 10: and she's not moving, she's not breathing, and he's anxiety

634
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 10: and his adrenaline is pumping so hard. When they finally

635
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 10: get everything moved in and everything kind of going, he

636
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 10: turns around and sees Gillian Kelly there and sees what

637
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 10: he thinks is her eyes fluttering, and he thinks that

638
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 10: she's moving and that she's still alive. So Paul Greys

639
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 10: been stabbed Gillian Kelly about I think it was like

640
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 10: penned to twenty times to just make sure that she

641
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 10: was also dead. So both of these women died by stabbings.

642
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 10: Whether that is how Gillian Kelly was. The Ammy report

643
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 10: couldn't tell if she was already dead or if that

644
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 10: is what killed her. And that is kind of what

645
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 10: Tad is fighting because saying that Tad broke her neck.

646
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 10: Tad killed her, but nobody saw that. Nobody's saying that.

647
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 10: So when Paul stabbed her, it actually stubbed her spinal cord,

648
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 10: so they can't tell whether that killed her or what

649
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 10: ended up being her. The reason that she died, so.

650
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 3: They can't tell how like the person that killed her,

651
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 3: because it could have been either one of them, just

652
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: locked them up immediately.

653
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: It is unfathomable, Like my stomach hurts. I can't even

654
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: imagine you following it so closely for so long. It

655
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 2: reminds me of the piked In massacre, which it does

656
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: be followed so closely. A family committing a crime like this, again,

657
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: somebody that they knows so well, whether they like them

658
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: or not.

659
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: This is the mother of a child that they love.

660
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: What are we talking about? You know, people say, oh,

661
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: I'll do anything for my kid. Yeah, how about get

662
00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: along with your family? How about get along with their mother?

663
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: How about like make this an inclusive, loving home. This

664
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: is insane, is yeah?

665
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 10: And that was and that's kind of where so Cora

666
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 10: and Paul kind of immediately took plea deals. They immediately said,

667
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 10: the death penalty has always been on the table. It

668
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 10: has not been something that they have said we are

669
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 10: going to do until very recently. But the death penalty

670
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 10: has always because it's Oklahoma, Oklahoma, the death penalty is

671
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 10: there still very much a thing that happens here. And

672
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 10: so Paul obviously being the one that did stab both

673
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 10: of the women knew that he was not going to

674
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 10: be getting off. Cora, I don't know really, because she

675
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 10: just helped plan. She was a lookout. Her and Cole

676
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 10: were lookouts. She did end up coming to the scene

677
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 10: as opposed to Cole, who was not at the scene.

678
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: Ever, it was involved with any of them, Like what

679
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 2: was her? Why was she or married?

680
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 4: Right?

681
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, yes, Cora and Cole are married. But Tiffany and Cora,

682
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 10: I believe. I don't think they went to high school together,

683
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 10: but they've known each other since high school. So all

684
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 10: of these people, I think maybe her and Tad went

685
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 10: to high school together, but they've all known each other

686
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 10: since like high school age. Paul Grice is actually much

687
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 10: younger than the rest of them.

688
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's in it.

689
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, and so yeah, and so Cora also took a

690
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 10: plea deal, and they both spoke at preliminary hearings. So

691
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 10: I was actually in the courtroom as Paul went through

692
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 10: his whole how how he stabbed them, what he did?

693
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 10: It was uh huh. I've been in the courtroom with

694
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 10: all five of them at the same time. They're they

695
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 10: because they're all doing these together. So Yeah, we actually

696
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 10: got to hear from Cora and Paul talking about the

697
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 10: days leading up to the murders, the day of the murder,

698
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 10: and then the following like the days following.

699
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: The murder, and was there something unique about that experience too,

700
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: was it just business as usual?

701
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 10: Well, Tiffany Adams had put it into whether this is true,

702
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 10: not true?

703
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 6: This this is.

704
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 10: Not something that they talk about very frequently. But Tiffany

705
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 10: Adams had said that there was physical and sexual abuse

706
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 10: of the children happening, and so that is why she

707
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 10: she told them all of the people in this group

708
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 10: that this is what is happening. These are why these

709
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 10: people need to die. And so that was kind of like, didn't.

710
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: They say, didn't she say it was like Veronica's brother

711
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: or something that was like hurting the kids, But it

712
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: was unfounded.

713
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: Correct, it was Mom's brother. And that's why allegation was

714
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: that Mom now dead because she's been buried in a

715
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: refrigerator with her associate who's there to manage this custodial visit.

716
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: They're found in re refrigerators. Allegedly, Grandma is saying that

717
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: Mom's brother is sexually abusing the child, so therefore she

718
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: has to galvanize her her little weird religious group here.

719
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: That's like, you know, looking for sovereign time and sovereign

720
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: laws so that they couldn't take matters into their own

721
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: land and into their own hands rather and murder them

722
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 2: on behalf of the child and them not being abused

723
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: any further. Again, very piked in massacre vibes here very.

724
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 7: And you hear.

725
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 10: And one of the craziest things I think I've ever

726
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 10: heard in my entire life is Paul talking about him

727
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 10: being on top of Veronica Butler and him saying that

728
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 10: Tiffany Adams was just walking around them laughing in like

729
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 10: it's just like he said, it was the most evil thing,

730
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 10: The most evil thing he's ever heard, is what he said.

731
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: Meaning Mom was being killed. Sometimes it's so many names

732
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: it's hard to keep it straight. So Mom is being killed,

733
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: and then while Mom is being murdered, somebody's on top

734
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: of her literally murdering her, stabbing her with a hammer

735
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: and killing her with a hammer.

736
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 10: Then Grandma knife, he was stabbing her.

737
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: With a knife.

738
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 2: And then Grandma is just walking around in a circle

739
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: having a giggle.

740
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 4: And this is all the last interest. She's laughing because

741
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 4: she would.

742
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: Be a better candidate to be a parent to her grandchild.

743
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: So she's doing a circle like take that in, that's

744
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: so sick, so demented.

745
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 6: Yeah I did not so yeah.

746
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 10: So that's kind of where we're at now. Both Paul

747
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 10: and Cora have had have have agreed to plea deals.

748
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 10: I don't know if it's actually been set in stone yet.

749
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 10: As opposed to Tiffany Adams, Tiffany Adams pleaded no contest,

750
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 10: So that means that she is not saying that she

751
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 10: actually did murder. These are a part of that, but

752
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 10: she's taking responsibility for it. So she pled guilty to

753
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 10: none counts to murder conspiracy. I have to go back

754
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 10: and look it. So it's a bunch of different ones.

755
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 10: But she's pled no contest. So in her plea agreement

756
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 10: no death penalty, she does not have to testify in

757
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 10: any further proceedings. As opposed to Cora and Paul, they

758
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 10: their plea agreement is no death penalty, but you if

759
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 10: we need you for testimony, you have to come back.

760
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 3: Cora and Cole are married. So do we think that

761
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: Coora is going to testify against Cole or is she

762
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: going to invoke privilege for being married to him.

763
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, she's already invoked that marital privilege. So oh yeah,

764
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 10: I mean when we're talking, when we during preliminary hearings,

765
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 10: they would ask questions about what Cole knew, when he

766
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 10: knew it, and they were invoking the marital aspect of it,

767
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 10: saying that this was something.

768
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: That they and when, and where is Wrangler, the beautiful

769
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: child at the center of this, who has grandma, who's

770
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: killing mom on allegedly his behalf.

771
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 3: Wrangler's the son of Tiffany, the dad of the two.

772
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: Kids, right that they have a son together, though, where

773
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: is that child? No, So the child that's in the

774
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: custage of dispute, meaning the child that's in the two

775
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: children that are in the custage of dispute, where are they?

776
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 10: They are with Veronica's family, So that yeah, as far

777
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 10: as I know, they're with Veronica's family. The Veronica's family

778
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 10: and a lot of a lot of the family are

779
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 10: in the courtroom during every single preliminary anything.

780
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 6: There are a lot of further.

781
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 10: Proceedings, There are a lot of just kind of seeing

782
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 10: court documents things like that. So I tend to go, like,

783
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 10: we have another court date set for November fifth.

784
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: Wow, and then for further that's the final raiments for

785
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: Tad and Cole.

786
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 10: Right, Yes, they're going to plead guilty, not guilty, or

787
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 10: no contest. And so if they do plead what that

788
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 10: is where that death penalty kind of came up. That

789
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 10: is where they said, hey, if they if they go

790
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 10: to trial and they lose the death penalty, we're going

791
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 10: for the death penalty.

792
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 5: And then Paige, I have one last question, and we

793
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 5: have just less than a minute. Where is dad of

794
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 5: the two kids? I know he was in rehab. When

795
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 5: where is Wrangler?

796
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 4: Do we know?

797
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 10: I have not seen him in court. I have not

798
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 10: heard where he is or what he is doing. The

799
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 10: only the only family of any of the defendants I've

800
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 10: seen is Tad Cullum's mom. She's she is there most

801
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 10: of the time. And Tad Colum and Tiffany Adams had

802
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 10: the most. I think the rest just have public defenders.

803
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 10: They have actually paid for lawyers.

804
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: So well, hopefully he's doing that. Hey, because he was

805
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 3: in rehab when all this went down, you know, yes, But.

806
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 10: About mom, they they also talk about him talking about

807
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 10: them getting rid of her as well, though oh I

808
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 10: didn't know.

809
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 9: I don't.

810
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 10: I don't think he fully knew that this was going

811
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 10: to happen, but he they've they've talked about this before.

812
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 10: This has been a you know how you talk with

813
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 10: your family and you say stuff like that. But I

814
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 10: don't know if anybody knew that this was what it's

815
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 10: going to be.

816
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 7: Wow.

817
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 5: Well, listen, we will keep everyone updated and hopefully, paigde

818
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 5: you will be willing to come back and keep us

819
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 5: updated of what it's like in the courtroom. We can't

820
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 5: thank you enough for joining us and for your incredible

821
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 5: and consistent reporting on this complicated case. Anyone you can

822
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 5: find Paige Shockton's work at news Channel ten that's out

823
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 5: of Amarillo, Texas, and keep it here because coming up,

824
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 5: we have pop culture expert Dorono Fear True Crime Tonight. Bye, Paige,

825
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 5: Welcome to True Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio and we

826
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 5: are talking true crime all the time.

827
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 4: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

828
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 5: Lucky enough to be here with my buddy body move in,

829
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 5: as well as Stephanie Lydecker and of course producer Taha

830
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 5: and Sam and Adam in the control room. Listen, don't

831
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 5: forget if there's any part of the show that you missed.

832
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 5: You can always catch the podcast and we want to

833
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 5: hear from you, So give us a call eighty eight

834
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 5: three to one crime or get with us on socials.

835
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 5: We are at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and

836
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 5: Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. We have a

837
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 5: lot coming up, but right now we are going to

838
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 5: go into a talkback.

839
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 7: Hich you guess this is a call from Virginia. I

840
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 7: am listening to last night's episode and you guys are

841
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 7: talking about brogging. I believe it's called when someone is

842
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 7: living in crawl face of your house and you don't

843
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 7: know that they are there. I wanted to share a

844
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 7: story that I heard about someone who lives in my

845
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 7: area a few years ago. I heard about it on

846
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 7: the radio, and there was someone living in the crawl

847
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 7: space of someone's house and the only reason they found

848
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 7: them is because it was wintertime and their house was

849
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 7: cold and it wasn't getting warm. They had their heat on,

850
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 7: but their house.

851
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 9: Was always cold, so.

852
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 7: They called a repairman out to figure out what was

853
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 7: going on. Their house was cold because the person living

854
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 7: in the crawl space turned the air duvets to keep

855
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 7: themselves warm while they were living in.

856
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 3: The crawl space and that's how they discovered.

857
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 7: That living there. Truly bizarre, but yes, this is a

858
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 7: real thing. It's crazy and scary. Love you guys, love

859
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 7: the show byes so good.

860
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: You missed it. We were talking about I know a

861
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 3: lot about dead in the Walls.

862
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 4: Oh you do?

863
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: Okay, So I brought this up last night, don't we

864
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 3: read what? We were talking more cases about that than most. Wow,

865
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: because I think and Courtney both thought I was like

866
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: lying about it.

867
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 4: I just didn't want it to be real.

868
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: I tried to do a show called dead in the Wall,

869
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: did you believe? Yeah, yeah, like I'm really an expert

870
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: in that recently. Actually, oh my god, yeah, froggy, if.

871
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 3: These walls could talk?

872
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have a dead peron, you have a

873
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: living person living in your wall.

874
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's the scariest.

875
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: There's also a story about one that was like living

876
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 2: in the wall actually with the intention of being haunting,

877
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: like to pretend to be haunting a house.

878
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 4: Scary.

879
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: There was one lady who was hiding her boyfriend in

880
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: the attic from her husband, and.

881
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, like he.

882
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 4: Lived up there for a long talkings for days.

883
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh scary. And this guy our talk back.

884
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 5: That I that is so I mean, funny is the

885
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 5: word only the fact that he was like, no heat

886
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 5: for you, I'll yeah myself.

887
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 4: Oh, let me get myself all warmed up.

888
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 3: It was freezing in here. Oh my gosh.

889
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: I needed to get somebody in the house to do

890
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 2: an investigation. And it's like, first of all, living in

891
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 2: your crawl space or in your wall, like the haunting one,

892
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: like it was actually in a wall, like they were

893
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: living in the wall.

894
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:25,959
Speaker 4: Wow.

895
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I did see a video once. I guess

896
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 8: there was an Airbnb property where someone rented and then

897
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 8: there was like a secret hidden door where someone was

898
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 8: actually living in the property while they were like renting

899
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 8: it out. So anyway, so it's another similar case, but

900
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 8: you both have.

901
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 4: Speaking speaking of airbnbs.

902
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 5: So it was after COVID, but not that long after

903
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 5: after and I went back east to see my family

904
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 5: and I rented kind of a big house and had

905
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 5: a bunch of people coming.

906
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 4: Okay, so blah.

907
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 5: So we're there and it was the woman we had,

908
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 5: the Airbnb woman. It was her first time running out

909
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 5: her beautiful property. You know, hello, hello, here's what we'll

910
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 5: be here. We get there and she has all, her,

911
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 5: her husband and her two kids, who I was very

912
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 5: surprised to see were there with all of this luggage.

913
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 5: They were like, oh, we were supposed to go abroad,

914
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 5: but because of COVID we can't. And so I, oh, exactly,

915
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 5: and they said, but don't you worry, We'll just stay downstairs.

916
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 5: You won't even know we're here. Cut to and I

917
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 5: do not exaggerate. We still talk about it to this day.

918
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 5: It was like an old, beautiful house with wooden floors,

919
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 5: but in the in the kitchen there was this one

920
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 5: sort of not like a hole in the wooden floor

921
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 5: where not would be. And more than one time, like

922
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 5: almost all of us saw just an eyeball looking up

923
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 5: like they were there, just like listening and watching.

924
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 9: Oh that's horrible.

925
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: It was excited to the next one.

926
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 4: They no, I never know.

927
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 3: We just eliminated them as friends.

928
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 5: Well, no, they weren't friends. They were the family who

929
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 5: were supposed to not be there. I was renting an airbnb.

930
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 5: The family is supposed to be gone, and they have

931
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 5: to stay in the basement.

932
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: The homeowners, the buddies came with their kids.

933
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 5: Oh my god, no, the homeowners had to stay.

934
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 4: Horrible, horrible anyway, but that eyeb altered the Can.

935
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: We play it talk back anytime soon?

936
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 9: Uh?

937
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can do another talkback. Let's do that.

938
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 4: What are yet y'all?

939
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: Jeff Crocker from Newfoundland who also spent four summers in

940
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: Atlanta and call it my second home.

941
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 11: Pimento cheese is my favorite coming back to Newfoundland and

942
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 11: not being able to barely find pimentos there's I have

943
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 11: a really good recipe I'll send you.

944
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 4: And also you can freeze it fun.

945
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 3: That's because of me. I love pimental cheese and they don't.

946
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 3: They don't sell the little glass jars anymore that I like,

947
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: And so let's play that and find out I asked

948
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: the question. Then I definitely would love to know that recipe.

949
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: If you could d m us, I would love it.

950
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 3: It's at True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok or Instagram

951
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 3: or True Crime Tonight on Facebook, because yeah, I want

952
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 3: that pimental recipe. I just love it so much. I

953
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: understand that there has been a verdict in the cop

954
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 3: killer case or not. I guess to kill a cop right.

955
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, So you're referring to Sean Grayson and he was

956
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 5: the Illinois deputy Uh, and he has been convicted of

957
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 5: second degree murder for the fatal shooting of Sonia Massy. Now,

958
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 5: Sonia was a black woman. She called nine to one

959
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 5: one from her house for help and Sean Gray was

960
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 5: one of the two responders who came and he ended

961
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 5: up killing her.

962
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 4: So she called nine on one.

963
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 5: This is back in July of twenty twenty four, and

964
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 5: she was afraid there might have been potentially an intruder

965
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 5: in her home in Springfield, Illinois, and then Sean Grayson

966
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 5: he came. Sonya Maycy was in her kitchen. There was

967
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 5: a pot of boiling water sort of near her. Sean Grayson,

968
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 5: who was now convicted, alleged that the alleged that Sonia

969
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 5: Maycy confronted him with this pot of water.

970
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 4: And he ended up shooting her.

971
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: So shooting at her, he could have de escalated it

972
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: and he shot her dead. Also worth noting, and by

973
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 2: the way, the show just kind of started. I didn't

974
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 2: even realize we were on and going.

975
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 4: So here we are.

976
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: But this is a really important decision and a really

977
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 2: important verdict because it does speak to the fact that

978
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: this particular police officer, who has a bit of a

979
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: checkered past, went into a home responding to a nine

980
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: to one to one call where she was basically saying

981
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: she felt there was a prowler amongst them, and somehow

982
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 2: in this exchange she shot dead and is murdered.

983
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 3: And the partner, the cop.

984
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 2: Partner, also testifies that he didn't think that Sony was

985
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: a problem. He felt as though perhaps his partner, the officer,

986
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 2: was the problem, and in going down a rabbit hole

987
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: about his background, that appears to track.

988
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 5: Right absolutely, And there was a particularly poignant moment I

989
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 5: thought when the Assistant States Attorney was speaking during closing

990
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 5: arguments and she said of Grayson, when you threaten to

991
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 5: shoot someone in the face and you do, that's first

992
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 5: degree murder. So yeah, Grayson again he got second degree murder.

993
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 5: But the checkered past Stephanie. It was really interesting because

994
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 5: Sonya Macy's family.

995
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 4: This doesn't replace her.

996
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 5: She is now killed and dead, but her family received

997
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 5: a ten million dollar settlement. And at the same time,

998
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 5: an Illinois law has changed, and that's to require more

999
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 5: transparency and law and law enforcement hiring. And this was

1000
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 5: due to this case because in an investigation into Grayson,

1001
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 5: first of all, the sheriff who hired him he promptly

1002
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 5: retired early in the face of.

1003
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 4: What was going on with this, you know, all of

1004
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 4: this publicity.

1005
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,439
Speaker 5: And it turns out that Grayson had joined the army

1006
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen. He left two years later for an

1007
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 5: unspecified but quote serious offense. He also had pleaded guilty

1008
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 5: twice to driving under the influence of alcohol, and a spokesperson, yeah, yeah,

1009
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 5: a spokesperson for the Sagamun County sheriff said that the

1010
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 5: sheriff's office did know about these DUIs. And finally, this

1011
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 5: position was Grayson's sixth position in law enforcement in four years.

1012
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: So this guy's been moved around a lot. And think

1013
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 3: about it.

1014
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: It's a tough call because I get really defensive of

1015
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 2: law enforcement at times, because you're in these moment to

1016
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: moment decision moments where you're out and about, sometimes in

1017
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: dangerous areas, sometimes not putting your life on the line

1018
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: to keep us all safe, Right, that's the theory. And

1019
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 2: then you get a guy like this who's just rolling in,

1020
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: throwing around some power, potentially taking the life of somebody

1021
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: who clearly just needs help and has had a pass

1022
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: that is completely checkered. And yes, how does that even happen,

1023
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: and it puts a stain on all law enforcement in

1024
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: that regard because these are not the times for that.

1025
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And it turns out I was surprised to hear

1026
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 5: how small the sentence might be. So had this be

1027
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 5: had he been charged for first degree murder, that's forty

1028
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 5: five years to life, but with the second degree, it's

1029
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 5: four to twenty years in prison or potentially probation. And

1030
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 5: the scheduling, Yeah, and the scheduling is going to be

1031
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 5: the sentencing is going to be scheduled in January of

1032
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 5: twenty twenty six. But that's really a tough pill to swallow.

1033
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 5: That's small of a sentence.

1034
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're protesting about it because if there's no you know,

1035
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: there's no jail time given, if probation is the answer,

1036
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: then that's a real that's a real slap in the face, right,

1037
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: That is that is anti the rules of law enforcements.

1038
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: You know this they're supposed to be doing the good

1039
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: thing and keeping people safe and yeah, it's a dangerous gig.

1040
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: But you know, it doesn't appear that this was an example. Right.

1041
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, there's there are there is

1042
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: some good news though this law, right, but yes, that

1043
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 3: that that has been added to the books. Is this

1044
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: effective right now or do we have to wait? Like,

1045
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 3: is it is? You know, it's active right now?

1046
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 5: The law was changed, is the information I have. We

1047
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 5: can dig into it. But that's the information that I

1048
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 5: have right now. So whether it's enacted or is something

1049
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 5: official needs to happen, I'm not sure, but that is.

1050
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: I mean, this guy was a drunk driver. How many

1051
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 3: drunk driving did he have?

1052
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 4: Four?

1053
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 5: I think, you know, two convicted, but six law enforcement

1054
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 5: jobs in four years?

1055
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 3: That's what I was getting the four from.

1056
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 4: Okay, that's right, And.

1057
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 3: Like can you imagine if any of us had two?

1058
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 4: You know, do you iyes?

1059
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: Like nobody's going to hire they could not allowed to

1060
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: do that it let alone be a law enforcement officer. Again,

1061
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people take their jobs so seriously and

1062
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: as they should. That is a badge of honor that

1063
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: has to be respected. And this is not an example

1064
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 2: of that.

1065
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 5: No, No, But you know what is an example is

1066
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 5: Grayson's partner, Officer Farley, whose bodycam footage documented the incident,

1067
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 5: and Farley also testified that it was in fact Grayson

1068
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 5: who escalated this situation and not Sonia.

1069
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he says that Farley, who's the other he was

1070
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 3: the other deputy president, testified that Sonya did not act

1071
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: threatening and act in a threatening way. He did, he

1072
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 3: did not fire his weapon. He did not feel any

1073
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 3: threat from her at all. Wow. I mean, I think

1074
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 3: that took a lot of bravery. I think that took

1075
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 3: a lot of bravery for him to do that. Yes,

1076
01:00:59,040 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: it just gets stitches.

1077
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: Not allowed to turn on your partner, your cop partner,

1078
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: you know in the movies at least. So what a

1079
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: major deal that he had the courage and the bravery

1080
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: and the strength and the knowledge to know what is

1081
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 2: happening to to really stand up and say this was

1082
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: not right. That is that is what we need in

1083
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: people who are looking out for us, right because like

1084
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 2: typically this guy would be harassed when he goes back

1085
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 2: to the station.

1086
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,959
Speaker 3: Right, No, that was done, But not this time right

1087
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 3: now here right, times are changing, I think, right this

1088
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 3: thin blue line is getting a little bit more erased,

1089
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 3: a little bit in each conviction, I think. And my

1090
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 3: hat is off to Officer Farley.

1091
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and also you know now and with the testimony

1092
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 5: and also during the incident itself, when he went to

1093
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 5: go and get first aid care for sonya may see.

1094
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 5: And then Grayson, the one who has been convicted, said no,

1095
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,959
Speaker 5: don't worry about it. Let's let's not let's not get

1096
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 5: first aid for this woman.

1097
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,919
Speaker 4: So but was it?

1098
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 10: Was it?

1099
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 3: Let me ask though, I mean I don't know that

1100
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 3: we know, but was it you know, there's she's not

1101
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 3: she doesn't need first aid? Or was it she deceased? Yeah? Like,

1102
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: I like, how was? I wonder how that was presented?

1103
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 3: Like there's no way she's alive.

1104
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 5: That's fair, that's fair, get into it. I just you know,

1105
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 5: the fact of the matter is she could have been

1106
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 5: clearly deceased.

1107
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,959
Speaker 2: I just because it is the bottom line. Also because

1108
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: she wasn't given the proper care.

1109
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 4: But listen, coming up, doron O Fear is here. He

1110
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 4: is a laugh a minute.

1111
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 5: He is bringing so many Halloween howls to us. So

1112
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 5: keep it here to crime tonight, We're talking to crime

1113
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:53,959
Speaker 5: all the time.

1114
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1115
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydecker here with

1116
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 2: my dance and mates, Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. Yes,

1117
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: of course, Taha and Sam and Adam are here. Hands up,

1118
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: everybody's having the little commercial break wiggle, and then we

1119
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,959
Speaker 2: finally have Dorono Fear, our pop culture expert back with us.

1120
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: Seemingly perfect timing because you know, Deron's a bit of

1121
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: a Halloween guy, and now that we are leading up

1122
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: to the big event of Halloween, some people really get

1123
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: really into it and some people study it, but Deron's

1124
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 2: a little bit of both. So he's here to give

1125
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: us a little background into the movie HALLOWEENLKL. You'll remember it.

1126
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: It's so scary. He's inspired so much. It's actually one

1127
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 2: of those scary movies that is so scary because you

1128
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: don't see anything worry right. It's the idea of scary

1129
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 2: more so than in others.

1130
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:05,439
Speaker 5: Right.

1131
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 2: And and if we have enough time, you're also gonna

1132
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: He's promised me a little bit during the break, we

1133
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: might run out of time to talk about Poltergeist because

1134
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: that too has a little spooky bit of backstory happening

1135
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 2: around it as well.

1136
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 4: So Doran, welcome back.

1137
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 9: Hi Yahllo. I'm so about to doing here, especially as

1138
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 9: we lead up into Halloween weekend. And you know, I

1139
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 9: am a horror movie fan and it's part of my

1140
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 9: pop culture like legacy you know, meeting Elvirah Mistress of

1141
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 9: the Dark was one of my big like you know,

1142
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 9: claims to fame and then partnering into her brally comicon.

1143
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 9: So that's an interesting example of like post trivia history.

1144
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 9: But Halloween. So one of the reasons that I think

1145
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 9: that Halloween is the seminal movie of all is because

1146
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 9: it took the idea of the Boogeyman, and like Stephanie said,

1147
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 9: it puts it in your head. He doesn't speak, he

1148
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 9: doesn't run, He just appears silent, deadly and evil, and

1149
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 9: that is Michael Myers. And with the setup with this

1150
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 9: also goes into the psyche of a human brain, because

1151
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 9: this was the really the movie and the story that

1152
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 9: established that there's someone potentially in the house, that he's

1153
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 9: in the house. And it took the concept that is

1154
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 9: most vulnerable, which is when you're babysitting, So you're most

1155
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 9: vulnerable taking care of somebody that is innocent, and this

1156
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 9: is your responsibility to protect them, and here you are

1157
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 9: being hunted. And in nineteen seventy eight, which is when

1158
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 9: Halloween came out, it really did change everything. One it

1159
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 9: actually made a star out of Jamie Lee Curtis and

1160
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 9: you know, she's the original scream queen. And it also

1161
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 9: set up the trope of what is considered the final Girl,

1162
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 9: which is the last girl to survive in any horror movie.

1163
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 9: And so with that said, Halloween has now become thirteen

1164
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 9: movies in and the one thing we know for certain

1165
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 9: is that on Halloween he always comes home. And so

1166
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 9: it's happening this weekend, and this time not in Haddenfield, Illinois.

1167
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 9: But it also is what's interesting about the history of

1168
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 9: Halloween is that it was inspired by a true story,

1169
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 9: one that is incredibly grim. And I give you a

1170
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 9: little bit of a trigger warning before we begin, but

1171
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 9: long before the movie, there was a real babysitter murder.

1172
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 9: And in March of eighteenth of nineteen fifty. Think about

1173
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 9: America at that time, Pleasantville, if you will, the sackhop

1174
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 9: in Columbia, Missouri. A thirteen year old Janet Christman was

1175
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,439
Speaker 9: babysitting a little boy named Greg and she was there.

1176
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 9: She came in, she brought her homework. She was going

1177
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 9: to do her homework while Greg's parents were going out

1178
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 9: to a card game and it was going to be

1179
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 9: a late night for the Christmins and she stayed in

1180
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 9: around ten thirty pm, the local police department received a

1181
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 9: desperate call and the call was literally two words, and

1182
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 9: it was a shrill scream, and it was come quick,

1183
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 9: look and the phone went dead. Now, it wasn't long

1184
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 9: enough for the police to be able to trace the call,

1185
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 9: so it wasn't until the parents came home and they

1186
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 9: and this was at one thirty in the morning, and

1187
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 9: they found Janet's body. Her body was found next to

1188
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 9: the phone. She had been beaten, she'd been unfortunately essayed.

1189
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 9: She was strangled with the cord of an iron that

1190
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 9: had been set up next to it, and her hands

1191
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 9: were bruised and bloody because she had actually was fighting back.

1192
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 9: She was not an innocent, dough eyed victim. She fought

1193
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 9: with all her might. Unfortunately she was killed. And what

1194
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 9: made the story even more terrifying was the fact that

1195
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 9: there was no fourth entry and the police had that

1196
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 9: at that point, believed that the killer either knew her

1197
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 9: or had been watching her. There was evidence left behind,

1198
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 9: but unfortunately, this is the time before DNA, so this

1199
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 9: was a moment where America and the idea of suburban

1200
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 9: peace was shattered because this was a child that was

1201
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 9: killed while trying to protect other children and a man

1202
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 9: had begun and the main suspect was a family friend

1203
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 9: who happened to have been the next police officer. And

1204
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 9: I know you guys are talking about this a little earlier.

1205
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 9: His name was Robert Muehler was he failed a lie

1206
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 9: detector test, but was never actually officially charged because the

1207
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 9: case remains unsolved till this day, although he had been

1208
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 9: convicted of an assault of another woman and that's how

1209
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 9: they made the connection. So this is a moment where

1210
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 9: a single night inspired one of America's darkest urban legends

1211
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 9: and the concept of the babysitter and the man upstairs,

1212
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 9: and that story eventually became an original concept obviously for Halloween.

1213
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 9: That it also was in this concept for When the

1214
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 9: Stranger Calls, which was another movie where there was a

1215
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 9: babysitter on the phone rang and the person who was

1216
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 9: breathing heavy was in the house. So on Halloween. It

1217
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 9: makes you kind of wonder about these things because horror

1218
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 9: invades your deepest fears and also allows you to process

1219
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 9: them from a place of hope. You know that if

1220
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,839
Speaker 9: you encountered it, how would you deal with it moving forward?

1221
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 9: And you know, I always talk about this kind of

1222
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 9: pop culture thing where you know, movies can imitate real

1223
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 9: life or argumentates real life, and it works both ways.

1224
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 9: You know, we talked about, you know, the idea Ed

1225
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 9: Dean and how that inspired Psycho and various other movies,

1226
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 9: and I know you guys have been talking about that.

1227
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 9: But Halloween also then tend to reverse effect and decades

1228
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 9: later after you know, the movie had come out, you know,

1229
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,879
Speaker 9: all the way as early as the reboot in twenty twelve,

1230
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 9: when Rob Zombie had remade Halloween. On Halloween Night in Georgetown, Texas,

1231
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 9: Jason Moore dressed up as Michael Myers, and he didn't

1232
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 9: do it just to go trick retreating, and he didn't

1233
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 9: do it as cosplay. He literally broke into a man

1234
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 9: home and he stabbed him repeatedly, and the victim survived shockingly.

1235
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 9: But Moore told the police that he wanted to feel

1236
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 9: what it was like to be Michael Myers, what it

1237
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 9: would be like to have no empathy, that was, he

1238
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 9: was just blank. And the police on that case also

1239
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 9: had said the same thing. They had used the same

1240
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 9: quote from the movie, which was his eyes were black

1241
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 9: and saw nothing. And these are really sort of terrifying things.

1242
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 9: Another strange connection from Halloween to the original Babysitter Murder

1243
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 9: was that when they found poor Janet the record player,

1244
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 9: she had been playing a record on over and over

1245
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 9: again the forty five and it was skipping and that

1246
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 9: record was was Mister Sandman by the Cherelle's, which was

1247
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 9: then used in Halloween three as the constant sort of soundtrack. So,

1248
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 9: you know, there's a lot of this sort of interconnection

1249
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 9: which I think adds to the sort of chill herewuls

1250
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 9: on your arm, you know, and he doesn't stop there

1251
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 9: by the way, you know, like you know, in the

1252
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 9: same year. Now, I'm going back to down twenty twelve.

1253
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 9: So in twenty twelve, after the Georgetown killing of Jason Moore.

1254
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 9: On that same year, in Alaedo, Texas, a seventeen year

1255
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 9: old Jack Evans, he decided he was going to enter

1256
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 9: the foray of the Halloween and he killed his mother

1257
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 9: and his fifteen year old sister. And when he confessed,

1258
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 9: he really confessed calmly, and he told the police, point blank,

1259
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 9: very calm, that he had watched Halloween and that Rob

1260
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 9: Zombie's remake was playing in his head over and over

1261
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 9: and over again, and that he was fascinated by how

1262
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 9: Michael Myers killed without emotion. He wanted to know what

1263
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 9: it felt like. And these are really scary songs. They're

1264
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 9: devoid of feeling, where we've lost feeling.

1265
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 4: So it's so weird.

1266
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 9: And he thoughts about the emptiness of these horrible crimes.

1267
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 5: It's so over, it's so interesting. Yeah, what is it

1268
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 5: like to feel nothing?

1269
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 4: Listen? This is true crimet tonight.

1270
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 5: If you have any questions for pop culture expert and

1271
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 5: horror expert Doran OFEIR, please give us a call eight

1272
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 5: eight eight three one crime. We're talking about Halloween and

1273
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 5: all of its ramifications before and after the movies, and

1274
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 5: I am covered in goose bimbles and Doran, you have

1275
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 5: you have more to take us on more of it.

1276
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 9: I have two more stories about Halloween and then I

1277
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 9: can go into Poultergeist, the Curse of Poultergeist.

1278
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 3: Oh that's what I'll do.

1279
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 4: I'm all in, go.

1280
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 9: Ahead, Oh I'm going right into I hop yeah, yes.

1281
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 3: No, we're on and needles.

1282
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 4: We're all sitting here.

1283
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 9: Like I was ready for a cool loss of water. Okay,

1284
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 9: so you know it's okay, We're going in more so

1285
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 9: years after so by the way, forty five years sentence

1286
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 9: was given to the last killer that did that killed

1287
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 9: the killed his mother and his daughter and his sister.

1288
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 9: Oh Jake Evans received a forty five year sentence. This

1289
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 9: was a conviction and then years later over the years

1290
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 9: is the more so. Another teenager in South Carolina he

1291
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 9: stabbed his father while wearing a Michael Myers mask, and

1292
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 9: a group of students separately in Ohio were caught planning

1293
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 9: a Halloween themed attack with knives and wearing the mask.

1294
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 9: And they had went and purchased the original mask. Now

1295
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 9: people don't know about the movie it was. The Mask

1296
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 9: was a low budget film. So what they took was

1297
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 9: they took a Captain Kirk mask from Star Trek from

1298
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 9: Star Wars, from the Star Trek James Kirk, the Captain,

1299
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 9: and they just sprayed it white way came the infamous mask,

1300
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 9: which is the Michael Myers mask. That's what happens when

1301
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 9: you have two dollars and a great you know, three

1302
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,879
Speaker 9: note piano play. That turned into one of the scariest

1303
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,959
Speaker 9: scenes in Halloween history, which, by the way, John Carpenter

1304
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 9: played that on the piano and that's how you got

1305
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 9: that theme song. So that's the Michael Myers and sort

1306
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 9: of the legend of Halloween. And I think this is

1307
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 9: the bigger question here is what happens when the concept

1308
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 9: of scary movies becomes part of your daily life and

1309
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 9: becomes the inspiration behind it. You know, it falls into

1310
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 9: the same category of sort of video games, like does

1311
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 9: video games.

1312
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 3: Make a killer and sanitizing?

1313
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 9: Well, the jury's out for me. I don't know, you know,

1314
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 9: like this is one of those things where I want

1315
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 9: to talk back, but the thought is, you know, how

1316
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 9: much of this is truly connected? And I've gone into

1317
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 9: it with Silence of the Lambs, I've gone into it with Scream,

1318
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 9: I've gone into it with House and Sorority Row and

1319
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 9: Black Christmas. You know there is something to this And

1320
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 9: although it praised on our deep of fear, the question is,

1321
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 9: at one point when does it become inspiration?

1322
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 3: So tell us about Poultergeist favorite movie, and this is

1323
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 3: not lighter, It's just different.

1324
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 9: This goes into the occult. And you know, the Poulter

1325
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 9: Guys came out roughly around the same time you're talking

1326
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 9: nineteen eighty two, and Poulter Guys changed the game because

1327
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 9: it was done as a The story is that in

1328
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 9: a pre planned neighborhood in beautiful California in the Valley,

1329
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 9: you know, family moved in suburbia and it's a very

1330
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 9: you know, basic, it's a nuclear family. It's you know,

1331
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 9: three kids, mother and father. They move into what they

1332
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 9: think is the planned community, brand new homes, everything's new,

1333
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 9: you know. They want that, and what they don't know

1334
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 9: is that they are in a scary, sort of doomed location,

1335
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 9: which was at the time in the filming of the movie.

1336
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 9: The story by Steven Spielberg, which was that it was

1337
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 9: a burial ground in Indian indigenous burial ground. Well, a

1338
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 9: couple of things that people didn't really tell the cast

1339
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 9: when they got involved in this movie was that they

1340
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 9: were going to have this incredible scene, which is towards

1341
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 9: the end of the movie where they go into the

1342
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 9: pool during a storm and the pool is not fully

1343
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 9: built yet and all of these skeletons kind of come

1344
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 9: up out of the you know, out of the muck.

1345
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 9: Those skeletons were real skeletons. The bones were human bones,

1346
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 9: and the production never told me.

1347
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 3: About that, and they.

1348
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 9: Wanted it to be as authentic as possible, and it

1349
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 9: wanted to feel, you know, plaster.

1350
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so bodies were these skeletons.

1351
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 9: That's the question.

1352
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 3: This is exactly what we.

1353
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 2: Were talking about. This is why I have worries about

1354
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 2: organ donating and body front. Where are these skeletons coming from?

1355
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 2: And why are we using I know for Steven Spielberg movie.

1356
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 2: Did they did they sign off on this on their license?

1357
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 9: I doubt that the families ever knew about it. And

1358
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 9: when Carrie Anne whispered.

1359
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 3: You know, he don't even get me, you were.

1360
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 9: And that's and that's a really horrible thing. And they

1361
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 9: say that that launched to curse the Pulter guys, which

1362
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 9: we don't know whether that's true or not. But I

1363
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 9: don't know if you guys remember the tragedies that happened

1364
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 9: off camera. And the oldest daughter in the movie was

1365
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 9: an actress named Dominick Dunn, and she played the teenage daughter.

1366
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 9: You know, she's the one if you remember the movie

1367
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 9: and you're a fan of the movie. She's standing outside

1368
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 9: the house when you have all of that lightning above

1369
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 9: the house, and she screams, what's happening? You know, and

1370
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 9: it's that moment where you're like, what is happening? You know,

1371
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 9: that was her big starring moment for her. Her demise

1372
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 9: happened immediately after the movie and she never actually got

1373
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 9: to go to the premiere to that movie because she

1374
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 9: was strangled to death by her stalker ex boyfriend. So

1375
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 9: that was her demise. And in a really sad twist

1376
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 9: of faith, the main star of the movie, who the

1377
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 9: girl who played Heather or Rourke, who played carry Anne,

1378
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 9: you know, who was the pretty blonde they get sort

1379
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 9: of sucked into the ghost world. She passed away at

1380
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 9: the age of twelve after the filming on Poltergeist too,

1381
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 9: and they say that that kind of added to the

1382
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 9: the legend, the urban legend of the curse.

1383
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 2: But it's an other woman too, like the one that

1384
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 2: was sort of like the she kind of came into

1385
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 2: channel the ghosts if I'm remembering her also.

1386
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, well she passed away recently and she didn't

1387
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 9: end up living a life. But the Heather of Roarke

1388
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 9: was real tragedy in Hollywood, and you know, decades later,

1389
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 9: decades later, you know, the legend still lingers, and then

1390
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 9: you can ask yourself, like, why does this fascination exist?

1391
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 9: And if you really want to feel it, all the

1392
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 9: real house, which is located at forty two to sixty

1393
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 9: seven Roxbury Street in Simi Valley, California, is now an airbnb.

1394
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:23,599
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

1395
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 5: For anyone who wants to feel it, now you know

1396
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 5: where to feel it. Doroan, We thank you so much

1397
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 5: for joining us always every time. It is the most

1398
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 5: fun and everyone listened. You can follow Doroan at doronofearcasting

1399
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:42,759
Speaker 5: dot com or on his socials at doron. Oh fear cast,

1400
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 5: that's Dorono fear Cast, not casting. Please come back very

1401
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 5: soon and keep it here.

1402
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 4: At your Crime Tonight.

1403
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1404
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1405
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

1406
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 3: And body Move in and listen. We have Ava.

1407
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 2: She's our associate producer who you really don't get to

1408
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 2: see enough, let alone hear enough. But during the day

1409
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: she is hard at it, doing all the research, during

1410
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 2: all the hard thinking. And she actually is a bit

1411
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:26,679
Speaker 2: of a scary storyteller apparently, because what I've been told

1412
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 2: is that Ava is joining us now to tell us

1413
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 2: a scary tale like no other.

1414
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 4: That's all we know.

1415
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:33,959
Speaker 3: Ava.

1416
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 2: Normally we like to know everything. So first of all,

1417
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:41,520
Speaker 2: it's so good to see your beautiful face than Hello, Hello,

1418
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: welcome to your show. And more importantly, we're so excited

1419
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 2: to hear your spooky, scary story. I have a very

1420
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,520
Speaker 2: thin skin on the scary stuff, so Doron has officially

1421
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 2: freaked me out.

1422
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 3: And now it's your turn.

1423
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,639
Speaker 11: Okay, great, Well, I'm really excited to share this case

1424
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 11: with you, guys, because I to do some deep digging

1425
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 11: for this one, because I wanted to share one that

1426
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 11: I don't think any of you knew about. And so

1427
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 11: I'm going to set it up and then I'm gonna

1428
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 11: have Sam and Adam play this voicemail because this voicemail

1429
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 11: is what makes this case so interesting.

1430
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 6: But in order to really appreciate it, I'm going to

1431
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 6: just set up the.

1432
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 9: Details a little bit.

1433
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 11: Okay, ready, this is what happened twenty fifteen.

1434
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:23,640
Speaker 6: Henry McCabe.

1435
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 11: He was a thirty two year old Minnesota state auditor.

1436
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 11: He was originally from Liberia, where he survived a civil war.

1437
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:32,480
Speaker 6: He was a refugee.

1438
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 11: He moved to America. He started this new life, this

1439
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 11: new family, had these high ambitions of it, maybe even

1440
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 11: going back to Liberia and being a politician. So this

1441
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 11: man mysteriously disappeared on September seventh, twenty fifteen, after a

1442
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 11: night out with friends. The last trace of him was

1443
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:53,599
Speaker 11: a two minute voicemail captured on his brother's phone, filled

1444
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 11: with i'll say distressing and indecipherable noises. We're going to

1445
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,759
Speaker 11: listen to it shortly. And his which was found nearly

1446
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 11: two months after he went missing in a nearby lake,

1447
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 11: showed no signs of trauma or foul play. And despite searches,

1448
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 11: FBI analysis of the voicemail, and you know, now almost

1449
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:17,600
Speaker 11: a decade of investigation, the cause and manner of his

1450
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 11: death officially remain open. The case is open. No one

1451
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 11: knows what happened to him.

1452
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I have to hear the voicemail.

1453
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 11: I have to hear the mast Wait, okay, just real quick.

1454
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 11: Once again, he's He's a normal thirty something year old man.

1455
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 11: His wife and kids are in California visiting hurt the

1456
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 11: mom's family. He's out with his friends. It's late, everyone's

1457
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 11: been drinking, and.

1458
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 6: Someone who how close he was with this person is

1459
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 6: kind of up for debate.

1460
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 11: This is the person that drove him to the bar,

1461
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 11: is giving him the ride home, it's like late early

1462
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 11: in the morning, and it's strange because Henry's like, I

1463
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 11: don't want you to drive me home, drop me off

1464
01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 11: at this random gas station miles away from my house.

1465
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 6: And this guy's like, I can just drive you home.

1466
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 11: And he's like, no, I really want to get dropped

1467
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 11: at this random gas station. So according to this guy,

1468
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 11: he's begging and he finally gives in, and then this

1469
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 11: is the last he's ever seen alive, dropped off by

1470
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 11: this guy at a random gas station in the middle

1471
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 11: of the night.

1472
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 3: Do we know that he was actually dropped off there?

1473
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 11: Yes, there is video surveillance of him getting dropped off

1474
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 11: at a gas station, but interestingly, it is not the

1475
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 11: gas station that this man originally told authorities he was

1476
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 11: dropped off out. We don't know if this was a mistake,

1477
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 11: like an honest mistake, or he was being intentional about it.

1478
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 3: Can remind me when you're what your is this again?

1479
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm so scared.

1480
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 2: The only thing not making me scared is the fact

1481
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:48,839
Speaker 2: that body is taking her makeup off.

1482
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 3: Is comforting. I'm not I'm just rubbing my eye. I've

1483
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 3: got like something in it. I don't know what's going on.

1484
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 3: I don't have any makeup on. It's the only thing

1485
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 3: keeping me alive.

1486
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 6: After the voicemail, you're going to be really scared.

1487
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 4: Okay.

1488
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 6: So this, this voicemail must have happened.

1489
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 11: When he was at this gas station according to the

1490
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 11: timeline of the night. So apparently he calls his wife.

1491
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 11: I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's

1492
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 11: a butt dial, and the wife, who's out of town,

1493
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 11: tries to loop his brother in on this like three

1494
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 11: way phone call. And because apparently she's like, some people

1495
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 11: are like, why isn't she call the police? I think

1496
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 11: maybe she was just like trying to see what's going on, Like,

1497
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:35,600
Speaker 11: let me see if I can get the brother on

1498
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 11: the phone and he can help figure out what's going on.

1499
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 10: And the reason this.

1500
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 11: Voicemail got recorded is because the brother didn't answer, so

1501
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 11: it left this as a voicemail on the brother phone.

1502
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 3: Guilty probably.

1503
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 6: Okay, are you guys ready to hear it?

1504
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 11: Ild a half minute long voicemail. I picked a one

1505
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 11: minute clip. Pretty much the entire two and a half

1506
01:23:57,880 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 11: minute sounds like this, but this is one minute of that.

1507
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:01,759
Speaker 11: Sam and Adam, I'm ready when you are.

1508
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 3: What I rebuke you. Okay, this is a demonic.

1509
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 9: What?

1510
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 3: Oh no, I hainte this? This is so scary?

1511
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 4: Oh no, Eva, okay you.

1512
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 6: Wait?

1513
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 4: Is this real?

1514
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 2: Are you an exorcism at this weird gas station back?

1515
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 4: It sounds like it sounds like an exorciseman.

1516
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 2: It's like an exorcism exactly. I feel scared and I

1517
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 2: feel honted.

1518
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 6: It is crazy. At there's two and a half minutes

1519
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 6: of this.

1520
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 11: I like I have to laugh or else I cry

1521
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 11: because it's like, what could this possibly be? I actually

1522
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 11: I remember heard this voicemail for the first time. My

1523
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 11: friend showed this to me a couple of years ago.

1524
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 11: She heard it on like crime junkie or something, and

1525
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 11: I haven't stopped thinking about it.

1526
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 9: Actually, what just what did we just?

1527
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 2: Was he in a a in a satanic cult? Was

1528
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 2: he taken by vampires?

1529
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 8: Like?

1530
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 3: This sounds like a real.

1531
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 10: Cry for real transformation.

1532
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 3: For those listening at home, you probably you just heard

1533
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 3: this voicemail. It it sounded just like it sounded crazy,

1534
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 3: like it was garbly gook and it was it sounded

1535
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 3: like a demon.

1536
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 8: Like screaming, or like his body's change or something.

1537
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 2: So scared, I like a little giggle can we go

1538
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 2: back like a giggle day.

1539
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,879
Speaker 3: And Joe's and they're.

1540
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,720
Speaker 2: Tips like, I'm so like, I don't love a satanic

1541
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 2: overtake out.

1542
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that that one was a little scary for me.

1543
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 3: But wait, okay, so the smell us left. Then what happens?

1544
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:18,559
Speaker 4: So it's in the morning.

1545
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 6: This is the thing, this is the thing.

1546
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:24,959
Speaker 11: Then his body is found two months later, pausitive death, drowning,

1547
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,719
Speaker 11: no foul play, and that's only.

1548
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 3: Not rowning, no foul play because.

1549
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 11: It's like, okay, aside from drowning, what was that?

1550
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I is it possible that he was drunk? That

1551
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 3: swimming and then well listen, I mean when you're when

1552
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 3: you're on drugs or you're drunk or whatever, things can

1553
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 3: happen and people think they're superhuman and I'll just swim

1554
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 3: across the lake.

1555
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 7: You know.

1556
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:51,759
Speaker 3: Okay, did something like that happen? Maybe?

1557
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:56,440
Speaker 5: Yo Eva, I am looking at your beautifully done research,

1558
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 5: which has been hidden until this point.

1559
01:26:58,080 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 4: I just got swoopy.

1560
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 5: The door did not classify this death as suspicious.

1561
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 8: So weird, and to your point by it, I wonder

1562
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 8: if they did a solid test to see if they're

1563
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:10,599
Speaker 8: drugs in a system or something.

1564
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 2: The poor wife is my husband has been taken by

1565
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 2: the demonic power? Is it is they on the They're

1566
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,719
Speaker 2: in the Poltergey's house. How is that possible?

1567
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 4: You know what?

1568
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 3: They rented that Airbnb and they did a same exactly.

1569
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 2: I don't believe in the devil, but I do believe

1570
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 2: it in here that sounds so I think.

1571
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 12: Stephanie, Yes, that's crazy, isn't this I'm seeing here that

1572
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 12: the FBI and the Minnesota Community Police they analyzed the

1573
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:43,680
Speaker 12: the voicemail, but there was no conclusive evidence.

1574
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 3: So no conclusive evidence.

1575
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a suspicious gas station, right, so kind of

1576
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: like tangential friend does the right thing, drives him home,

1577
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 2: leaves him meta gas station. Maybe misremembers the gas station,

1578
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, let's go with that. Maybe they had

1579
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,759
Speaker 2: a cocktail which they not have been driving. And now

1580
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 2: here we are, this guy suddenly gets into a tangle

1581
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 2: with the underworld. It sounds like, and this is the

1582
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:12,479
Speaker 2: last we hear of him, and like, so this is

1583
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 2: he's just considered a missing persons Like this is a

1584
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: non suspicious death.

1585
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:19,599
Speaker 11: Yeah, he's just missing for two months.

1586
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 6: I think there's a few two things that.

1587
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 11: Might help make this make a little more sense, which

1588
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 11: it never has and never will. One is I looked

1589
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 11: into kind of like, Okay, what were the leads, what

1590
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:31,760
Speaker 11: was the investigation?

1591
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 6: Who were the suspects?

1592
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 11: And it's really interesting because kind of everyone's story for

1593
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:39,720
Speaker 11: the most part added up, and there was like no

1594
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 11: big alarm.

1595
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 6: Bells going off.

1596
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,200
Speaker 11: There were a few minor leads that led nowhere, like

1597
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 11: he could go in a couple different directions, like some

1598
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 11: people look at the friends he was with, some people

1599
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 11: look at the wife, like but nothing really was like

1600
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 11: the big sing ding ding, And so I think investigators

1601
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 11: just kind of we're completely at a loss at.

1602
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 6: Some point, and the other as expected.

1603
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:03,560
Speaker 11: This was a thirty year old black man, an immigrant.

1604
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 11: I think if this had happened to like John Benay Ramsey,

1605
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,879
Speaker 11: you know, much more.

1606
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 6: Of a situation.

1607
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 11: But I think a lot of people were kind of

1608
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 11: just I think if this voicemail hadn't been publicized or left, like,

1609
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 11: no one would have even thought twice about the fact

1610
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 11: that this man showed up in a lake. You know,

1611
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 11: not no one, but at least not us, you know,

1612
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:25,600
Speaker 11: the general public.

1613
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 9: But his family.

1614
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 11: But this voicemail is just so beyond insane that it's

1615
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 11: like what we even.

1616
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously there was a conversation with his wife

1617
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,759
Speaker 3: prior to the voicemail being recorded. Did she say anything

1618
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 3: like he said anything to her?

1619
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 11: I don't think, you know, sources said it was a

1620
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 11: butt dial, so I think that there wasn't even a conversation,

1621
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,960
Speaker 11: right right. I Some people have tried to kind of

1622
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 11: make out because I cut out a little bit at

1623
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,320
Speaker 11: the beginning. There is muscled speech, but it's really really

1624
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 11: hard to get a sense of what he's saying. Some

1625
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,559
Speaker 11: people have theories. Some people think he says I've been shot.

1626
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 11: That's like something that some people hear, but personally I

1627
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:10,400
Speaker 11: didn't hear that. And there was no gunshot wound on

1628
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 11: his body.

1629
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 4: So and he.

1630
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 2: Doesn't have a history of like excessive drug use. This

1631
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 2: could be some sort of like fantastic drug moment where he's.

1632
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 3: Maybe he was drunk at the bar, maybe he got

1633
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 3: drup that was his Was there any signs of robbery,

1634
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 3: like did they find his wallet or anything?

1635
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 11: Do you know he were found with like a gold

1636
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 11: his gold watch, his phone and everything like that. But

1637
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 11: his friend did have the friend who dropped him off

1638
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,599
Speaker 11: or and another friend had his wallet and keys, which

1639
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 11: some people.

1640
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 8: Thinksious, that's suspicious, Okay.

1641
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 11: They claimed that it's because he was so drunk at

1642
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 11: the bar they were trying to prevent him from driving.

1643
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 4: I have one hundred keys, I have done I have.

1644
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 6: Oh you know, it depends who you believe.

1645
01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 5: And I would take the wallet if maybe he was

1646
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,679
Speaker 5: out for an night and it's two am, and maybe

1647
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 5: he wanted a little bit at the at the gas station, thinking.

1648
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 2: How was he going to get home from the gas

1649
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:11,639
Speaker 2: off at a gas station without his wallet?

1650
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:16,599
Speaker 3: Wallet? Was going to walk? Did gas in? Nothing?

1651
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 8: Not the best friend.

1652
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 11: It's so confusing. Also another suspicious thing. There's a lot

1653
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 11: of like many little clues that to me and apparently

1654
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 11: to authorities don't connect and make no sense. But if

1655
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 11: you guys are curious, definitely look it up. One of

1656
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:34,839
Speaker 11: them was he had his phone still in one pocket

1657
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 11: and the body was found, but the phone's battery was

1658
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 11: taken out and was in his other pocket.

1659
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 6: It was like, what was that all about?

1660
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 4: That's weird, weird little.

1661
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 3: Phone in one pocket and his battery in another.

1662
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 11: Yeah, he had taken out it was like an Android

1663
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:51,200
Speaker 11: and he had like taken out the phone. Battery or

1664
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 11: someone had and it was in a different pocket from his.

1665
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:59,840
Speaker 2: Phone beside herself, and just so scared and terrified, and

1666
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 2: she's left a widow. This is a terrible tale, Eva

1667
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 2: weighted best.

1668
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a little upset. I'm not gonna lie

1669
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 3: because this that voicemail. I don't scare very easily. Actually

1670
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 3: yes I do, but we rely a little bit. But

1671
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 3: that voicemail is how we're going to leave each other tonight.

1672
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 2: Like I wanted to hear something positive where.

1673
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:29,960
Speaker 4: I need something fun.

1674
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:35,639
Speaker 3: I'm gonna think of a happy thought, something fun, uh.

1675
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:40,879
Speaker 4: Scary candy, something positive.

1676
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 7: I don't know.

1677
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 2: I enjoyed watching the Salt Lake City Bravo uh late

1678
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:47,960
Speaker 2: last night when my course didn't work out and I

1679
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 2: was so upset and frazzled, I watched Salt Lake City

1680
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 2: on the on the boat.

1681
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 3: That is an episode?

1682
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:55,040
Speaker 4: Is that real housewise.

1683
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 3: Quality reality TV? The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

1684
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 2: If you know this, to disconnect from the world, go

1685
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 2: ahead and watch see they got silly they got episode.

1686
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 2: You know reality people should never go on a boat,

1687
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:14,640
Speaker 2: and so it's a recipe for a real show. And

1688
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 2: so just fast forward to the episode that's out right

1689
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 2: now and it might.

1690
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:18,920
Speaker 3: Take the edge off.

1691
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 4: Okay, well that that feels better.

1692
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 3: That gives me something.

1693
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 2: I need some below deck person. By the way, it

1694
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 2: was a supermash. They were on the below deck. Captain

1695
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 2: Jason was there.

1696
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 9: Yes, it was.

1697
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 3: Really has gone a little left turn.

1698
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:39,559
Speaker 4: But like so the girls they.

1699
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 3: Were taking a little trip and they went on the

1700
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 3: below deck boat. It was a crossover and at one

1701
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 3: point the crew was like, what is happening right now?

1702
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm like for them to say it, and

1703
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 2: then captain was like, and like, you know that that

1704
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:57,639
Speaker 2: captain's kind of handsome, so you know they were, Yes,

1705
01:33:57,800 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 2: that was a it was a little bit of a

1706
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 2: a calming effect on me.

1707
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, the Salt Lake City crew at sea check

1708
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 3: it out.

1709
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:09,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, and actually for either the next talkback Tuesday or

1710
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 5: whenever you should call in, leave a talkback or a voicemail.

1711
01:34:13,160 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 4: And what do you do when you just need a

1712
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 4: literal brain TJ. Hallett cleanser.

1713
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, And just like whether it's below deck, whether it's

1714
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 5: some quilting show, go to home goods.

1715
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 2: I think a scented candle and a new throw pillow

1716
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 2: won't cure in my humble opinion, and Ava, we love

1717
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:35,360
Speaker 2: you so much. Great jobs scaring us to the Thank

1718
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,920
Speaker 2: you for traumatizing us. And listen, everybody. We'll be back tomorrow,

1719
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:41,560
Speaker 2: big show, lots of headlines to cover. We love you,

1720
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:43,839
Speaker 2: Stay safe, we will see you tomorrow.

1721
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:44,839
Speaker 3: Good night, everybody.

1722
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 12: Night,